Latest / WOC and Allies: Business and Career Realtalk with Elaine Lou Cartas / 59. How To Keep Our Humanity In A World Of AI And Technology With John Gauntt

Transcript

59. How To Keep Our Humanity In A World Of AI And Technology With John Gauntt · WOC and Allies: Business and Career Realtalk with Elaine Lou Cartas

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: AI.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: How do you feel about it?
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: For me personally, I'm kind of scared.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: And it's because it feels like this Terminator movie turned into a reality show, machine versus human feel.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yet whether we like it or not, similar to back in the day when social media just came out, AI is here.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: So what does that mean for our work?
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: How do we keep our jobs, have successful businesses, and continue to excel?
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: Well, in this episode, I'm joined by John Gaunt, the founder of Culture and Code, a B2B podcast and newsletter focused on generative AI for creative professionals.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I actually got to meet John and work with him at Podcast Movement.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: I attended his event on AI.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: And what I love about John's work is that it isn't just about how to use AI to make all this money.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: It looks at the human side, which is why his work has been featured in The Economist and South by Southwest.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: So this episode is not uh how do we create the best prompts.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's an episode on how do we as humans keep our humanity in a world of AI, technology, and automation.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: All right, let's drop the beat.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, I'm Elaine Lucarthas.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a business and career coach for women of color and allies.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: LA Weekly awarded me the number one thought leader.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: And Apple News named me one of the top five business coaches.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: Going through an identity crisis, professionally or personally, we'll get ready to have some conscious conversations.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: Now grab your coffee, tea, or boba, and let's color your dreams too.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: Lead your legacy.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: Not about let's figure out the prompts, because let's be real, it's about being human first.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm excited to have a guest, John Gaunt, who's the founder of Culture and Code, a B2B podcast and newsletter focused on generative artificial intelligence for creative professionals.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: I actually got the pleasure to meet John at his workshop that I paid for to learn more about generative AI.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll be transparent to you, John.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, oh, is this gonna just be a workshop to do work?
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: But I really appreciated you bringing the human aspect.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: So, John, welcome to the Call Your Dreams podcast.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Elaine.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: Happy to be here.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I really want to frame this episode on how do we balance AI, social media, and more importantly, just being a human.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's as much a combination of our mindset and then some skills that we pick up.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we pick up skills all the time, and a lot of them are unconscious.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you move to a new city, what's one of the first skills you learn?
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: The commute.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: Learn about what times, you know, we we have this constant picking up what we need to participate meaningfully in a particular lifestyle.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: And driving is driving, but the way you would drive in LA versus Seattle is a different type of skill.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think sometimes when we're talking about AI, we're looking at it as this literally this artificial thing.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, no, it actually came from people first.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when you think that's how the technology started, was that people said, okay, maybe we can start to design these systems that can give us the cognitive equivalent of a power tool like you'd get at Home Depot.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: And then given that, what would we do with it?
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: So that's some of the things, some of the part that got me really into the space a long time ago, not just simply from an AI practitioner point of view, but more importantly, I was just really drawn by what does it mean when there is a computer that can not think, but it can do a lot of the stuff that I had to think about before I could do it.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: That makes sense.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: And and what I'm hearing is being a human first, right?
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: When it comes to balancing AI and social media, can you lean on that a little more?
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: What that means to be a human first?
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we did, as I said, we did that workshop at Podcast Movement, but also we did a mainstage presentation called Generative AI for creators.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the first things I was telling, at least the podcast community, is take a step back and think about what you really do for a living.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: You deal with conversational, natural language, you deal with scripts.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: And when most people think of scripts, they're thinking of, you know, Hollywood screenplays or something like that.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, that's one kind of script.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: But there's another kind of script, too.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: You've been to the airport and you dealt with the person on the other side of the counter.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: And both of you do this dance to where you can get your bags checked in, you can get, you can, you can book into the flight.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's time to join security.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: What's that?
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's a new script.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so scripts are something that we we work through every day as we participate in modern life.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: And as podcasters and as creatives, we're just more conscious of it than tip than most people.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: We're aware that we're playing in a script.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, how else are you going to have 400 people standing in a security line at LAX that doesn't devolve into chaos, although sometimes it looks like chaos, but it's actually highly choreographed almost.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen some pictures of airports where the where the visual creator has altered the speed, and it does.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: It almost looks like a dance of all these people flowing through this one place on their way to someplace else.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so when we take it to things like dealing with artificial intelligence, to me, when I think of a script, I think of how am I going to interact with AI that is a little bit closer to, let's say, how I interact with the person who's working for Delta, who's check who's who's checking me in.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's a it's an interaction that helps me get to do something I want to do, which is take off, go to this new place and see the people I love.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: So when I'm looking at how to stay human, it's not so much a conscious thing as it is an awareness thing.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: I become aware.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, oh yeah, I deal with scripts with other humans.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: Now I'm dealing with a script with an AI.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's different, but it's not that different.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: So what does it mean for us humans in the workplace now?
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the reality is, and you shared this when we did the workshop, was that yes, we're going to lose jobs.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: So then what skills do we need to lean in or learn more about for us to be successful, whether we're working a full-time job or even in our own businesses.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: Well, earlier today I was on a conference call with someone in the wine industry, which I really hope to get that contract.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: But that's great.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: Congrats.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: They were talking they were talking about, you know, how they want to maybe integrate AI into the way that they communicate to their audiences, to their community of people who buy wine.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: And what I was first trying to get them to avoid is don't slot it in, pull the crank, get rid of people, and figure, okay, this is the new way we we're going to do things.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: And they weren't.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that that's that's kind of a cartoon, but it's not that far different from the truth.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: More important was you've got these tools to where you can take your human colleagues that you work with.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: And if you use the tools well, then more of their day, let's say their eight-hour day, more of their day can actually be deeply focused into what is delighting the other human that I'm trying to reach with my company.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: What's making my customer happy?
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: What's making my client fulfilled?
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: What's making them work on the value?
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: Because you do that kind of work, and then you do kind of the work of maintaining an organization, which would be how do you do payroll, how do you do HR, how do you do your analytics, all that type of organizational plumbing that's required so that a lot of people can cooperate at scale.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so my point about AI to now is that you can throw more of your operating expense and energy into this technology with just helping to run your organization.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: And then the people that you've got can be focused more deeply on to how they really delight the other people you're trying to reach, whether customers or colleagues or partners or whatever.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that's one of the ways they were looking at it.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm hearing about more of the need for relationship building, even in my own business, right?
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: I have my automations in terms of people book a call, fill out a form, they get an automation that this call is confirmed.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: But I actually add a personal touch.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: I use an app called Bomb Bomb, which is similar to Loom, where I create a little video and say, Hey, John, I saw you scheduled a call.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: I see you do AI.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited to connect with you.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to create a video, show you I'm a real human based off what you shared in your form.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: I know you shared these challenges.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to share these podcast episodes that I handpicked for you to listen to.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I just basically kind of gave my sales funnel away.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: But you know what?
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: That's what the reward you get for listening to my podcast.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: But that high touch has been such a game changer because people are just so used to automation all the time.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: Well, there's an important aspect to where you can't confuse automating a task with automating a job.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the same thing.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: Automating tasks, I know that there are tasks which that are necessary to do, but in the spectrum of where where am I truly putting that high touch, they're not there.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: So the beauty of being able to automate those tasks is that it frees up energy and time and bandwidth that I can use for the high touch.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: And if there's anything that I would say is about the most future-proof, any type of job, it's those ones where you need to have a high-touch relationship with another human being.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: So give a little backstory.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: I grew up, I grew up in Southeast Tennessee in Chattanooga, Tennessee, and I had an older brother who was severely autistic.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: And in part of that experience growing up, but also in one of my first jobs, I worked a lot with handicapped kids.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: And that's something to where there's no way you're ever going to truly automate that because not only can it be done, but it actually shouldn't be done.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if anything, as other human beings, they deserve the full attention of another human being.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: But if the technology can help me take care of a lot of the related tasks of making sure that their medication is correct, making sure that they are scheduled for their appointments, making sure that we're able to keep a rich record to where when another therapist comes in, they're able to check with the those notes, that record.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: That's where technology is helping me because it's saving me the time to give my full attention to the other human being.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: Now that's just a small example from at least my experience working with handicapped kids.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: But you can take a similar mentality, not on the handicapped side, but you can take a similar mentality to a host of different service industries.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: If you're helping to coach people, if you're helping to work in hospitality, if you're helping people with these types of experiences, that's still what people are going to pay for.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: And when I say pay, I'm not just completely monetary, but I'm saying that's what they want in their lives.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: And if automation helps smooth the process to get there, that's fine.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: But a full diet of automation, no, I don't know anyone who wants that.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, one of my clients is an occupational therapist, and she gets referrals from other doctors.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so one of the things I shared with her to implement is hey, send a handwritten thank you card.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: Give them a Starbucks card in that handwritten thank you card.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, really?
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like, who does that?
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, exactly, no one does that anymore.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's handwritten, right?
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: And it is thoughtful.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: You're putting something personal, like, I hope you enjoyed your trip to New York, loved getting to know your kids and your wife.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: And like, by the way, thank you so much for your support.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: Here's your Starbucks gift card.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't want you to just treat yourself, but your assistant and your whole team.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: You are going to be remembered.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, my mother was it's it's something that I also passed on to my kids, not by choice, but it's like you will write a thank you card to this person who was who's part of the family, you know, who who gave you, either gave you some gift or helped you in some way.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, I don't know any culture on this planet that does not have a rich uh a rich modality for expressing gratitude, expressing thanks, expressing concern.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's part of the hardwiring that makes us human, whether, you know, the language and the actual expression is the interesting, you know, local cultural part, but the the fundamental drive, the fundamental instinct is human.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it is.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it it's really fascinating, right?
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like when COVID and the pandemic hit, everything started going into automation, digital.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's great.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: We could just talk to people.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, what we're recording this in 2023 in September.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I've been hearing more from my own clients feeling lonely, feeling awkward to go socially.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: We were just at a conference, right?
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: I remember, I'm sure you probably remember.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: Remember that first big event or conference you were gonna go to?
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, I don't know how to do this.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: How do I network or talk to people?
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: And then you're in it, and I don't know about you, but I'm like, this is so nice.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: I am not zoomed out.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, just energized being around other people.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, during during pandemic, everyone was, yeah, it was probably one of the the greatest experiments in unexpected anthropology imaginable.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I saw I saw some people who actually did better because they do they do work better remotely, you know, and that's just the way they're wired.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: Other people, they gotta be around, you know, face to face.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: So everyone, I I think it was put this way.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: The pandemic didn't bring out the best of us, and it didn't bring out the worst of us.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: It brought out the essence.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: Ooh, the essence.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: What do you mean by that?
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: Can you elaborate on that?
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I found that people who were basically confident and are comfortable dealing with other people found other ways to deal with other people remotely and stuff.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: I found that people who were who craved structure and regimentation might have been a little rigid inside.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: Pandemic did them no favors.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: And even and even in my own world, I I practice martial arts for a long time.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: I saw some black belts who couldn't handle the idea that they couldn't get to the dojo.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: And suddenly I realized, oh, so you're this amazing, masterful person when you're on the mat, and then off the mat, the world changes and you're you're kind of freaked out about it.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I saw a lot of different types of uh reactions.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: In my own personal reaction, we we wrote audio fiction.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: I've after a while, when I realized that, hey, this thing's for real, I can't really get any work, any kind of quote unquote work done, I'm gonna write and do my, you know, fulfill my passion.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's interesting.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: For me and my business, it did really well.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because prior to the pandemic, I used to do monthly in-person events in LA.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I would always post pictures about it.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: And because I've been doing it for probably two years straight every month, so that's about 24 events.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: People saw pictures by the time we I had to adapt, go online.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I did the pivot.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: And we had hundreds of people from different parts of the world and countries, and it was amazing creating that.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: And people just was craving the community aspect of it.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: So that was great.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: That was like my huge lesson from the pandemic, like people wanting community.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: Second, actually, most recently, I kind of told you before I hit record, I am recovering from a sore throat.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: Got tested negative for COVID, negative for mono, and negative for strep.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I was talking to my doctor, I'm like, I usually am healed after three or four days.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's been eight days.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: What is going on?
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: It was like, well, we had to social distance, obviously, but because we had to social distance, we've been working from home, majority of us.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: We're not interacting with other human beings.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: So our immune systems are down.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: When you interact with human beings, your your immune system goes up because you're exposed, right, to dirt and germs, which is why when all the kids went back to school, all the kids got sick and so did their parents.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like biologically, right?
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: We're meant to be around other people.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of crazy how our body works, but I also want to make a note that we're meant to be with the right people, not the toxic people in our lives.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: True.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: But there I think it was the United Nations or some international body that was recognizing solitary convine solitary confinement as a cruel and unusual punishment.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: That basic that that basically under a legal, under a legal point of view, you are actively harming a human being by isolating them from other human beings.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, we've also seen it with you know, in other animals and higher primates and stuff, you know, health outcomes, many we're biologically wired to socialize.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: Now, that's not a light switch, it's more of a spectrum that people exist upon.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: And COVID really threw a monkey wrench into a lot of that.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: But on the flip side, my my wife and I spent seven months together, you know, through the through the pandemic, and we're like, well, looks like we're stuck with each other, you know, because if there was anything that was going to take two professional people to find out how well their relationship really worked as opposed to what their ideas were, it's now you're together seven days a week for months.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: That that's about as much of a true test as there is.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not saying it all went wonderful.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: We had a few vigorous exchange of views, but at the same time, COVID was something to where once we got a few months passed away, we're like, oh yeah, you know, nice to test that and find out that hey, it worked.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: My a good friend of mine is a lawyer.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: She does family mediation, aka divorces.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: And she was like, My business did really well during the pandemic.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'd think so.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that industry did really well.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: That wasn't expected.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: Legacy leader.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: I know what you're thinking.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: Elaine, you have such good stuff here.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: I want more.
• 19:40
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• 19:51
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• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: All right, let's get back to the episode.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: So in the AI workshop that I attended at Podcast Movement, you said this beautiful quote that I would love for you to expand on.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: You said AI is a mindless statistic machine.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's its virtue.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: Our virtue as humans is we collaborate with another, with one another, and we experience the world.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: That was beautifully put.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: Can you elaborate on that?
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: Let's start on the tool side first.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: When I say it is a mindless statistical pattern matching engine, I'm trying to put it in true.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: There's a difference between AI as a technology, as a pure technology, and AI as a medium.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: Now, Marshall McLoon's very famous for saying the medium is the message.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: But actually, what he was looking at was medium as a two sided coin.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: On the one side of the coin, let's call it heads, is a medium extends the human capability.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, railroads made us, gave us the ability to cover distance.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Light bulb extended day into night.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's heads.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: Tails is how that new capability transforms human relationships.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: Railroads move people, but transit changed the way we sold goods.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: Light bulb extended day into night, but it also reorganized the factory system and enabled these radical new concepts like a nightclub.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, mediums not only change people's minds about what's possible, they also change people's minds about what's desirable, what's valuable, and what's normal given these new capabilities.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: So when I say the AI is a statistical pattern matching engine, what it's actually done is it's turned human language into a programming language.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: Literally, you can use your words.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: You remember when you were a kid and they say, use your words.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: Literally, you can use your words to cause things to happen in code.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: And that's pretty powerful because effectively speaking, we're no longer operating technology so much as we're learning how to cast spells.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we're able to use our language to give instructions that a machine can reasonably, I'm not saying perfectly, but reasonably understand.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: Now you remember earlier I was talking about pets.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have dog or cat?
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: No, I don't.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't know.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, but you know plenty of dog and cat owners.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: They're thinking as humans.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I talk to my cat all the time, or I talk to my dog all the time.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: They obey very well.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: They're not obeying.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: They've they're learning how to react.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, when you're saying your your language, words, English, Spanish, it doesn't matter.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: The dog's not understanding it as human language, understanding as, well, this is my human and this is what they want me to do.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's this gap between what the true understanding is.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: AI is not too different.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's just we've been able to make keep shrinking that gap.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: And now we have the virtue of having this engine that can more or less understand our words and then go off and try to do something on our behalf.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, read this article and tell me the top five points.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: Watch this movie and extract 10 search engine keywords I can use.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: We can give those kinds of instructions in natural language, and then AI can go execute that.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's the head side of the coin.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's the extension of human capability.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: Now, given that capability, how are we going to work together as people?
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: When I can say, Elaine, can you write this, write up this summary and then also make sure that it's translated into Italian, Chinese, and Spanish?
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you can do that now.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: You can write up your original text.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: You can say, Chat GPT or Claude, translate into modern Italian.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I don't, I'm not saying copy paste that.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just saying you just took a big jump from zero to like 70 or 80%.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: And now you can add your human element to that.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's the virtue.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: Is it really as opposed to going from zero to 10 and 10 to 18, you're going from like zero to 70 with the output, and now you as a human can start to add your personal touch to truly make it valuable for the other person you're kind you're going to try to reach.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: Because ultimately, you know, with the exception of Wall Street or something, AI doesn't write contracts.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: AI doesn't make a deal.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: AI doesn't have a relationship.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's people who make contracts, people who pay each other, people who make a deal.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: AI is just changing how they relate to one another.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why I say look at it.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: On the one hand, it's just a box, and it's this virtue that it can do things for you.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: But the more important ball to keep your eye on is how does this change the way I work with other people?
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's that is a great question.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I loved what you even mentioned earlier.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, what are processes and systems in what I'm doing in my job or in my business that's like consistent or repetitive, where I could receive support in that so that I can be human, so that I could build relationships, so that when maybe AI is helping me with copy or newsletter, but how can I make sure I add my pizzazz, my personality, you know, the storytelling in there?
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: Because AI, I mean, we don't have a little cord that hooks up to a machine that tells it like what we've been doing since we were born.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know that.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: Soon enough, yeah.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: But also think of it this way.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: Let's say that you that you want to remodel a house and you've looked at the catalog and you've gone down a Home Depot and you bought all these wonderful tools, but you're not a craftsperson.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: How well are those tools really going to help you to build a house versus a trained general contractor with a crew, with people who specialize in concrete, in framing, and all that.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: And they're using the same tools.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: Just having tools is necessary, but it's not sufficient.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so just having AI is necessary if you're going to compete in this this this new economy, but it's not sufficient.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: You have to retrain the people and have people ready to add that that special touch that's only possible when you have AI.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: Because what AI is going to return to you is what is statistically popular, what the internet thinks.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: Not necessarily what's good or what's enduring or what's lasting or what's quality.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's where that's where you need people.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I get emails, text messages from people trying to sell to me or buy things like this is automated.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, this is a really boring email.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: How come there's not anything in it?
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I and I don't know if it's because I have my own business and I do marketing as well.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but I just like this like they don't know who I am.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: Or personally inviting me to an event to spend thousands of dollars to be with them, but it's not a personal invitation from the individual.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, some people want to just play the statistic, you know, hey, if only 5% respond, I'm way ahead.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, well, that's life as a spammer.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: And AI is going to help you be a better spammer.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but at the same time, for the people who truly matter, the people who have leverage in either your career or your customer base or places you want to go, yeah, it needs that personal touch.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: Now, make sure it gets to the right email.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: Make sure that the, you know, that I'm able to keep a record of how that email was received, help me test, are my ideas being being engaged with by a bunch of people?
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, bring it on, AI.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: But that's still not the same as authorship.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's helping me with tasks.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: And that's one of the things.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: As long as I'm staying on authorship and storytelling and what's making me special and spending the most of my energy there, then I can use AI to take care of the tasks that help keep me there.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: I would love to ask, how can we use AI ethically?
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because as you know, there's all these talks.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, right now, I live in LA.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: We're still in the strike.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's the longest strike ever.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: And as listening to your podcast episode with your guests, it's because whatever decisions made sets the precedent for this industry, but they're so behind in making these decisions with streaming.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: Well, one reason why at Culture and Code, why we are focused exclusively on the creative industries is not just simply, hey, that's more fun.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: But more importantly, the media and the creative industries have been the canary in the coal mine for what's going to happen, what's going to ripple across all service industry.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone's got this idea that Hollywood is this insular, self-contained ecosystem.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, you know, I'm sure there's some people you can meet in that community that make you think that.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: But if you actually look at some of the credits of some of these big blockbuster movies, you have these just like virtual armies of highly skilled creative technologists that are working on it.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: And as they're working with it, it's almost like the Formula One team in auto racing that eventually feeds back into what are the what's the feature set of the new Lexus or the new sedan or something like that.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: You're going to see a similar thing happen in the service industry.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: So we're very interested in how creative project teams are using AI, not just simply because they're making amazing special effects, but more importantly, how are they scoping a project?
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: How are they ensuring that each contributor, human or not, is contributing from a position of strength?
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: And most importantly, how are they really moving the needle to innovate on the narrative side to where it's a better story and on the storytelling side to where it's a better experience?
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: If they're doing that with AI, then a lot of those practices are going to feed into other industries.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: Just like you have a lot of financial professionals who never worked a day in their life in a bank, but they're financial professionals.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to have creative professionals who never worked a day in their life in Hollywood, but are using similar techniques.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: They got to talk to audiences.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: They got to engage people, they got to get, they got to motivate people for action.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's storytelling.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, in a practical sense, step one is get on one of those text engines like ChatGPT or Claude, because that's that's sort of basic literacy.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's sort of like the word processing of AI.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: You learn how to prompt, which is what you're doing in this interview.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if you can, if you can interview somebody, you can prompt an AI engine.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's just a little different grammar.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: That's where you get your feet wet, because you can judge the output that you're getting back because it's just text.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I would also advise you start with your own content, not just simply for IP issues, but also because you already have a pretty good idea in your mind of what is the quality of this content.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if Chat GPT returns an output to me about how to fly a 737, I'm unqualified to know whether it's good or not because I'm not a pilot.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm like, yeah, yeah, it makes sense, but I'm not going to trust my life to that.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: Likewise, when you're working with your own content, you already know, well, how good is this output that I'm getting?
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so those would be some practical ways.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: And then ethically, one of the things we do at Culture and Code is we we make sure that we're putting citations, whether an image or another asset was generated, but did we generate it using something like Midjourney?
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: Are we using it off of Google Images?
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: So making sure I'd say if there's any discipline to really practice, it's almost not quite like academic, but IP and provenance and acknowledging where did you get this?
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, because that's where the trust, that that's where more trust is gonna come than just saying, hey, it's a black box and uh it's cool, so just just use it.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know anyone that really buys that way.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: So it's brand building most more or less.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I would love to ask is do you have any action items or take or reflective questions or takeaways for our audience when it comes to balancing AI, social media, and being human?
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: Any final words for them?
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the first thing is you do need to double down on being human when it's becoming a lot more easy to automate humans away.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's not only the right thing to do, but it's also the smart thing to do.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: So good.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: Because AI today is a bit like internet was in 1999-2000.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's mature enough to where people say, yeah, it's a thing.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna affect the way I work, but I don't have direct experience with it right now today.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: So we're in that kind of funny gap.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, right now, 2023, you can't go to any organization and say, I don't know how to use the internet and I don't care.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's that you're not professionally literate in 2023.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: In 2000, you could say, Yeah, I heard about this internet thing and it's important, but I really don't know how to use it.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, we're in a similar stage with AI today.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: It is already making big changes in the workforce.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: And whether you're worried about your job being automated or if you're excited about your job being augmented, the bottom line is that every job's gonna change.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where, similar to the pandemic, it's gonna bring out the essence of people.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: There's like, I'm in that weird category.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: I enjoy flying without a net, and I've taken some bruises and uh a couple of couple of crashes along the way, but I'm willing to do that.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't consider myself, you know, in a, well, it's sort of a unique category.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: But then you have a lot of other people that run down that spectrum all the way to people who say, I don't want the world to change at all.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: So locate yourself a bit on that spectrum and then start really thinking, what level of literacy do I want?
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: You should be able to prompt a language engine because that's the equivalent of being able to find a website.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's the equivalent of kind of knowing what an email address is.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: When I talk about literacy, that's what I that's what I mean.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: If you're gonna use the internet, there's certain literacies you gotta have.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: If you're gonna use AI, there's certain literacies that you gotta have.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: But that's the 10%, just like the perspiration part is figuring out where am I spitting as a human to where, given these new capabilities, I can do extraordinary things that are gonna delight the people I want to delight.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: Because I gotta say, I'm not too enthusiastic about a world that's merely efficient.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, efficiency is nice.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: I can appreciate engineering, but there's gotta be that kind of inner squeal, you know, that people get.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: You ever seen kids where they'll either they'll open a present or they'll get a new piece and they're and they're looking at the potential.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: And there's that that kind of moment where they're truly delighted.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: Now, maybe the you know, the shine will come off later, but there's this moment of delight.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's one thing the tech industry, quite frankly, since at least since the iPhone has been lacking, is it's made everything efficient, but it hasn't really delighted us.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: I want I want I want a world with more delight.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, quite frankly, that's a bar that I would raise to AI.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: Help me with the tasks to where I can focus more on delighting my customers, my clients, the people I work with, myself.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then you're you're a valuable addition.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: But that that's basically my opinion of kind of doubling down on being human, is to learn how to delight people and then figure out how can AI help me do that.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: When you were saying that, like the efficiency and the delight, it made me think, I don't know if I told you when I saw you at the conference, is I just came back from Tanzania for two weeks.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_01: It was my first two-week vacation with no technology.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: Just present at Mount Kilimanjaro hiking for a week and then at a safari.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: And that was the most delight, most life-changing, best vacation I've been in because I was completely present.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: And at the same time, though, it's because I've also made my business efficient while ensuring that my clients received that client satisfaction from my team who is serving them through relationship building as opposed to automation.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I get that a lot of times when I'm hiking.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, oh my gosh, this is so beautiful, this view when you're up in the mountains, looking at the lakes or the oceans.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why am I working?
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_01: Why am I on Zoom?
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: But thank you so much for reminding us the delight to be a human being, to just be.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you, John.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I appreciate that very much.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate the enthusiasm and again willingness.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: I think you were flying with a bit of a net when we went there, but basically come in and have that beginner's mind.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: And if anything, that's where I get the most excited about a new capability, is that it draws out people who are willing to adopt a beginning, a beginner's mindset when they start.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: And they're also intelligent enough to try simple things, try small things, say, oh, that didn't work.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: Or it didn't work like I expected.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: And that way we kind of nudge the technology closer to where we want it to be because that's how it works in biological life.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know any pet, or especially any child, that takes an instruction and executes perfectly the first time.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that that's just not been in my experience, and I've got two grown children.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: So at the same time, we'll look at our technology and say, well, it's not perfect.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: It must be wrong.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's limited.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: Again, mindless statistical pattern matching machine.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's its virtue.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: Look at it, you know, my car is wonderful for getting me from A to B, but I don't ask its opinion on what I should cook tonight.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's what are the questions that you're asking of AI and how can it really help you?
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's where I think you're going to find better outcomes than just saying, oh, I got to chase the tools.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'll figure out what I'm gonna do after I learn the tools.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: Good luck.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: Speaking of which, in terms of building things, it's also for adults.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like I just bought this new mic with the arm stand.
• 39:44
  unknown: Yeah.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: It took me a full hour despite there being pictures of instructions.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_00: But didn't you feel didn't you feel that sense of accomplishment once it finally got set up?
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think I felt a little bit of delight, John.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: A little bit.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: Well, there's also the other side of that, which is mystery.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: I changed a refrigerator door from left-hand opening to right hand opening, and it works perfectly.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: The only problem is there's two screws left over.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the mystery part where it's like, okay, it's still working, but I don't know why I've got these extra screws.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, give me digital technology, I'll build you a cathedral.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_00: Give me a hammer and nail, I'll hit my hand.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm I'm DIY disaster dad.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_01: So, John, I just want to share with you.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you're spiritual at all, but I like manifested you to speak at my podcast because I've been wanting to find an AI expert, but I didn't want, oh, look at me.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: I've been working at this tech company and doing this, or let me show you how to make millions from AI.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_01: I really wanted the human component of it, which is why even your title of your podcast and newsletter, Culture and Code, was just so attractive to be and even being in your workshop, which is no surprise why you've done work for Southwest and The Economist.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I would love for you to share with our audience before we end here how can people find you and learn more about your work.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_00: The website is Culture and Code, one word, cultureandcode.io.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_00: We'll be launching our newsletter.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_00: September right now will be launching our newsletter around October 5th, and that's going to be a weekly.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_00: And it's going to be focused on the idea of practical skills and critical thinking, because we believe they're not separate.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_00: They actually you think better once you've actually used the tools.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_00: Too often I think the debate is too abstract.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_00: So we like for people to get messy in the tools.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_00: So cultureandcode.io.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: We're also on all the major podcast networks, iTunes, Spotify.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_00: Look it up.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_00: You can also find us on LinkedIn, and we'll be on all the regular social platforms.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_00: We'll be fully launched and set up, I would say, by November 1st.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_00: So it's been it's been a bit like trying to build the, you know, taking off in the airplane and then realizing, oh yeah, we got to put some seats in.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: We're off the ground.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_00: The machine's working, but yeah, we got to make sure that uh we're still we're still building some of those vital components.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_00: But the main place to go is cultureandco.io.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_01: So, John, as you're building this, are you having delight?
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_00: Most days I try to make a I try to make some space.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you were talking about manifest, I do meditation.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_00: Also, I do martial arts, and occasionally, yeah, I step away from all things digital, turn the phone on, do not disturb.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_00: And last night was my uh 12-year anniversary at my gym.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so I went in with the original ghee that I wore 12 years ago.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well a little rough and worse for wear, and then spent an hour wrestling with people, and it was fantastic.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_00: And that was the way I injected delight into the day.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then I went back home, got something to eat, and finished the tasks that I needed to finish before I could go to bed.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_01: See, what I heard is that you did the efficiency of work, added some delight in there.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you remember, but I I do Muay Thai.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you told me.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_01: And then continue to do work.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: But I just kind of wanted to end it to remind people what you shared during this interview as well as as a conference, is as humans, we're meant to collaborate with one another and experience the world.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you, John.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I appreciate it, Lane, and I look I look forward to listening to more.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_01: If you enjoyed this podcast episode on how to keep your humanity in a world of AI and technology, well, here are four things you can do if you feel called to do them.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_01: One, share this with a friend, send them a personal message on how this episode can help them understand how we can live in a world of AI, automation, and technology while still keeping our humanity, which is living in a world of delight.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_01: Two, leave a rating and review for the Color Dreams podcast so more women of color and allies can create a life where they are more human.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_01: And three, if you would like to see how to work with me and my team to create a more sustainable life where you can continue to be a human being, where you're not just trying to be efficient like a machine, but truly living a life with delight, then schedule a complimentary legacy, business, and career review call at elenelew.com forward slash call.