Latest / Stories That Live In Us / Why Didn't We Know This Story (with Gayle George) | Episode 29

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Why Didn't We Know This Story (with Gayle George) | Episode 29 · Stories That Live In Us

• 0:02
  Gayle George: No one could have known necessarily how that particular artifact might affect me, because nobody necessarily knew me, but it was just so meaningful, you know, for me to see the names of these ancestors you know that I didn't know before and you know and then getting the context for the story of who they were, you know, and how we were connected to them.
• 0:28
  Crista Cowan: Stories that Live In Us is a podcast that inspires you to form deep connections with your family past, present and future.
• 0:36
  Crista Cowan: I'm Crista Cowan, known online as The Barefoot Genealogist.
• 0:40
  Crista Cowan: I've spent my whole life discovering the power of family history and I know that sharing the stories that live in you can change everything.
• 0:48
  Crista Cowan: I know you probably listen to this podcast while you're driving or on the treadmill or out for a walk with your dog, but let me tell you what you need to do right now.
• 0:59
  Crista Cowan: You need to stop whatever it is you're doing and before you listen to the rest of this episode, you need to go watch a little film called Railroad Ties.
• 1:09
  Crista Cowan: You can find it on Ancestry.
• 1:12
  Crista Cowan: I'll also link it in the show notes so that you have access to it.
• 1:15
  Crista Cowan: It's just a 15 minute film.
• 1:18
  Crista Cowan: We filmed it back in 2018.
• 1:20
  Crista Cowan: And it premiered at the Sundance Film Festival in January of 2019.
• 1:28
  Crista Cowan: Railroad Ties is about the Underground Railroad.
• 1:31
  Crista Cowan: During the institution of slavery here in the United States, there were individuals who would help those who were enslaved escape, and there were escape routes that led through farmhouses and churches and across rivers, and people would help these escaped slaves on that path called the Underground Railroad.
• 1:57
  Crista Cowan: One of the stops on that Underground Railroad was a little church in Brooklyn and the film is centered around that church, and we bring together in that film individuals who were descendants of those who were enslaved and descendants of those who were part of the abolitionist movement, who helped them escape.
• 2:20
  Crista Cowan: It is so powerful and every time that I watched the film even though I watched the research unfold in real time I am still so moved by it.
• 2:34
  Crista Cowan: One of the individuals in that film was a woman named Gayle George.
• 2:38
  Crista Cowan: I had the opportunity to meet her and speak with her on a panel at a genealogical conference shortly after the film premiered, and I have been so impressed with how she has taken the things that she has learned from that experience and used those stories of her ancestors to move forward in the world in really meaningful ways.
• 3:02
  Crista Cowan: So I hope you'll enjoy my conversation with Gayle George.
• 3:05
  Crista Cowan: Thank you for being here.
• 3:08
  Crista Cowan: I love your story so much and I'm excited to share it with my listeners.
• 3:14
  Crista Cowan: So,Gayle, I would love to hear a little bit about your genesis into family history.
• 3:20
  Crista Cowan: Was that a part of your life before railroad ties, or is this something that was spurred by this experience?
• 3:31
  Gayle George: Well, I welcome the opportunity to talk about it because, definitely, since railroad ties, anybody who stands still long enough will hear the story.
• 3:42
  Gayle George: I think I've always had an interest in family history and there were some peculiar you know little, I want to say oral history or little things that you know that had been passed down.
• 3:58
  Gayle George: For example, I'm a native Washingtonian it's something you know from Washington DC, which was something that was celebrated.
• 4:07
  Gayle George: I have an uncle that actually started an organization about that, and so in this area I don't think it's just us, but place is such a big thing, but we knew that.
• 4:17
  Gayle George: You know we had generations from, you know, dc, from the District of Columbia, but not how many generations or you know, or really anything about that.
• 4:27
  Gayle George: And so there were just little tidbits that you know, we knew, but not the full story.
• 4:32
  Gayle George: And so the railroad tides experience was just something that catapulted me into you know, delving more deeply into it, I think when I became a mom, you know there was, you know there was more interest in finding these pieces you know of the story and you know because you want to know, you know what you're passing down, you know and share, you know that those that I don't know, there was an impetus, more interest that came about.
• 5:02
  Gayle George: But definitely the experience with Railroad Ties just kind of changed, you know, a lot in terms of that aspect of my life.
• 5:13
  Crista Cowan: You mentioned being generationally connected to this place.
• 5:16
  Crista Cowan: Is that on both sides of your family?
• 5:18
  Crista Cowan: One side of your family?
• 5:20
  Gayle George: It's on both sides of the family and, as I said, we knew we were rooted here, but we been in DC or you know what, what's that?
• 5:31
  Gayle George: And then I just didn't even know how to get started about it.
• 5:50
  Gayle George: It was just kind of like a question, but but yeah, so, so the experience, and then kind of getting all that information at one place, like wow, it's like that, you know that moment, like you're asking the universe, or you're just like wondering about something, and then it's there, you know, it's like wow, okay, okay, there were some, you know some interesting stories about the family, um, but but not a lot of um, you know, not, not not the scholarship or the connection in terms of you know stories came from, or even a knowledge of how do we fact check this, how do we ground into this to see if this is real?
• 6:32
  Crista Cowan: And I think that's a pretty common experience in a lot of families, especially as we are children and teenagers and young adults.
• 6:38
  Crista Cowan: We kind of overhear, like you said, those snippets of conversation and I think sometimes we maybe even fill in the blanks of the story a little bit because we're not quite sure what it is that we were hearing.
• 6:50
  Crista Cowan: And so then you became a mom, and how did that change your perception of you, know what you should or wanted to know about your past?
• 7:01
  Gayle George: Yeah, I just remember.
• 7:03
  Gayle George: Just, you know, looking at this, this little baby who's you know going to be 30, , a I want to say information, but it's more than that.
• 7:29
  Gayle George: It's like almost like a template for you know what's going to maybe be significant for him in his life.
• 7:40
  Gayle George: I found that to be very meaningful, you know, because when you know where you're from, you know, you know those things that either have, you know, inspired or or plagued your family.
• 7:53
  Gayle George: You know, in terms of history, it does start to open a way in terms of what you know, what our experience is, or what you know our existence is, because I believe we're on a continuum, you know, and I mean we're from them, we're from the.
• 8:15
  Gayle George: You know we have that and then we passing something on, but what did we inherit, you know?
• 8:19
  Gayle George: What are we getting with that story to pass on?
• 8:20
  Gayle George: You know, and I think I didn't even have the language at the time.
• 8:24
  Gayle George: You know.
• 8:51
  Crista Cowan: And I think I didn't even have the language at the time, you know, but it was just more of a you know like an impetus to you know, to give him.
• 8:57
  Crista Cowan: You know everything that he might need.
• 8:59
  Crista Cowan: You know as much as our lives, even if we have not been research or you know.
• 9:03
  Crista Cowan: But there are probably other ways.
• 9:05
  Crista Cowan: I imagine, through your child's life, that you connected with your immediate family and maybe even the extended family.
• 9:12
  Crista Cowan: What did that look like for you?
• 9:14
  Gayle George: Absolutely, I've always been.
• 9:16
  Gayle George: You know I was a grandma's girl, you know, growing up, so I've always been one that loved to sit at the feet of the elders or sit with them, you know, and just kind of over here or here, you know, because they were sharing.
• 9:36
  Gayle George: They weren't necessarily hiding it, but just kind of get to know them, you know, because it was like, oh wow, this lady was my mom's mom or aunt or you know that type of thing, and then they would have such rich stories you know about, you know things back in the day, even generations, in Washington DC.
• 9:55
  Gayle George: You know how the city had changed.
• 9:57
  Gayle George: You know over these different generations and just very rich and interesting part of you know way of what I realized was kind of gathering that information firsthand.
• 10:12
  Crista Cowan: I love that.
• 10:13
  Crista Cowan: It's interesting because I think about like I was also a grandma's girl and how much I loved her and how much of a presence she was in my life, and then to think that my niece and nephews have no idea who she was and I become then that bridge for making sure that her memories and her stories and you know who she was as a person, even not even counting the ancestors before her, but I become that bridge to that next generation for that information.
• 10:42
  Gayle George: Yeah, and it's so critical, not only just the bridge part, but also interpreting.
• 10:51
  Gayle George: You know, that's what I've been finding a very rich part of it is being able to interpret.
• 10:57
  Gayle George: You know, tell me what that means to you.
• 11:00
  Gayle George: Yeah, I'll tell you a cool story.
• 11:29
  Gayle George: One of the things after Railroad Ties that I discovered was my third great grandmother's court records where she tried to divorce her husband, 2004.
• 11:33
  Gayle George: And so there's there's transcripts and stuff and she's explaining what, what her grievances were.
• 11:35
  Gayle George: You know what the problem was and you know she thought there was another woman and this and he's not doing this and that, and it was like, wow, like you could really get a like a, a, a sense of who this woman was and her value system.
• 11:46
  Gayle George: You know, in terms of that marriage and just the fact that in 1904, a Catholic woman, what you know, like that she would go to that length to articulate her issues, you know.
• 12:01
  Gayle George: And so when I say interpretation, I think of what kind of woman was she?
• 12:06
  Gayle George: Not necessarily in the sense of, yeah, putting it in, placing it in the time space, the things that she said.
• 12:13
  Gayle George: Why would she do that and what I?
• 12:15
  Gayle George: For that particular instance, for example, she came from a very different value system in terms of, you know, farmers, and these were, you know, previously enslaved people who had come into the freedom, and there was a, you know, a sense of industriousness, you know, and intention to, you know, to make a mark in society and to do, you know, certain things.
• 12:39
  Gayle George: Well, maybe not necessarily make a mark, but to advance the family, you know, advance the family.
• 12:45
  Gayle George: And then my third grade grandfather, her husband, was more interested in making a mark for the family, like in society, things you know and you know and that kind of thing, and so you could see a disparity in their value system, you know, in that time frame.
• 13:01
  Gayle George: And and then how that, how that played out, you know, over the generations.
• 13:06
  Gayle George: So, you know, the history has become really dynamic for me, you know, because I feel like it's so informative in terms of what we've inherited, you know, and how those values and those decisions that people have made, you know, have played out over generations.
• 13:26
  Crista Cowan: And that's amazing.
• 13:27
  Crista Cowan: Thank you for sharing that story.
• 13:28
  Crista Cowan: How you can extract that from a document, from court records, from piecing together the story, you start to get a really clear picture, like you said, of what they value, of how they moved about in the world.
• 13:41
  Crista Cowan: I think that's beautiful.
• 13:42
  Crista Cowan: Yeah, absolutely so.
• 13:45
  Crista Cowan: Let's talk a little bit about the Railroad Ties experience.
• 13:48
  Crista Cowan: Before you were cast in the film, had you started a tree on Ancestry?
• 13:53
  Crista Cowan: Had you dipped your toe into that water at all, and what did that look like?
• 13:59
  Gayle George: So before Railroad Ties, I had not started a tree on ancestry.
• 14:05
  Gayle George: The extent of my experience with ancestry would be with my father who, at that time, and then even moving forward before that, was trying to find some threads of information about his father.
• 14:25
  Gayle George: And so he, you know, was knocking on every door and DNA tests and, you know, just trying to piece together his family story, which of course is my family story a part of it, you know, and so, but you know his curiosity and his, you know, commitment to do that research definitely informed me, you know, and kind of collided in some way with what was already questions for me.
• 14:54
  Gayle George: And so when I got the invitation, I was like, yes, like you know, and I remember Sasha Jenkins, who was the director, you know, asking me go, you know.
• 15:02
  Gayle George: And I remember, um, sasha Jenkins, who was the director, you know, asking me um, well, you know what if you find out something you didn't want to know?
• 15:11
  Gayle George: You know what if you find out something you know that's not so, so amazing, you know, um, and I was just like, and I thought about it and I was just like, but I would still want to know, you know, I'd still want to know, I couldn't think of something that would that.
• 15:27
  Gayle George: I just wouldn't want to know.
• 15:28
  Gayle George: I mean, cause these?
• 15:29
  Gayle George: If I'm connected to it?
• 15:31
  Gayle George: I was just.
• 15:31
  Gayle George: I was just like I just want to make sure you guys got the right person, Like it is really my, you know my history.
• 15:39
  Gayle George: I was just.
• 15:39
  Gayle George: I was intrigued, you know, and definitely open for that experience at the time.
• 15:49
  Crista Cowan: I love that you were just a little bit cautious, because I think that's one of the things.
• 15:50
  Crista Cowan: One of the things I say when I teach family history is you always want to make sure you're climbing your family tree, because it's really easy to take a wrong turn or just, you know, connect the wrong generation and then you're exploring this whole family tree that's not really yours.
• 16:02
  Crista Cowan: So the fact that that was your instinct was are these really my people?
• 16:06
  Crista Cowan: Have we?
• 16:07
  Gayle George: really done this right, right, right, right, and that makes a lot of sense.
• 16:11
  Gayle George: I find that or understand that people get burnt out, can get really burnt out doing the research, and probably exactly what you're saying is that even your tree you know, and probably exactly what you're saying is that even your tree you know.
• 16:25
  Gayle George: I try to to to be very specific about the questions I'm interested in.
• 16:31
  Gayle George: You know, like, like, how many generations have we been in DC?
• 16:34
  Gayle George: You know, has our family, or you know something specific who was so-and-so's husband or wife or whatever you know.
• 16:42
  Gayle George: Just because then that gives me some momentum.
• 16:44
  Gayle George: Once I'm able to answer that question, it's like, oh, okay, so you know, just because then that gives me some momentum.
• 16:45
  Gayle George: Once I'm able to answer that question, it's like, oh, okay, so you know.
• 16:48
  Gayle George: Then I'm like, okay, cool, now I can, you know, you know switch gears or you know, or you know, create another objective or look for another piece of information.
• 16:58
  Crista Cowan: So the way you framed that was actually really insightful, because you talked about your earlier life where you just had these snippets of information and kind of vague, vague answers to vague questions.
• 17:09
  Crista Cowan: But what I heard you just say was when you ask very specific questions, then you find the specific answers that you're looking for, and I think that's really wise counsel.
• 17:19
  Gayle George: Yeah, no it's.
• 17:19
  Gayle George: I think it's essential because I could see how someone could get burnt out, you know, and not come with away with the satisfaction of you know answering a question that they might, yeah, that they might be looking for, sure.
• 17:37
  Crista Cowan: So tell me about the day in Brooklyn you show up for filming, and did you know any of the people there?
• 17:42
  Crista Cowan: You had some vague expectations, it sounds like, but tell me what that day was like.
• 17:48
  Gayle George: You know, it was a novel experience the first part of it, because it's just like, okay, you're in New York and then there's cameras, like okay, you know kind of a curiosity, and um, I remember it was cold and I had a dress on and I was like it's cold and you know that kind of thing like just logistical stuff.
• 18:09
  Gayle George: Um, until we got into the church and for me the weight of the experience started with the Pinky story.
• 18:29
  Gayle George: So there was a story about a young woman, young girl named Pinky, I think she was 10 or 12.
• 18:35
  Gayle George: Young woman, young girl named Pinky, I think she was 10 or 12.
• 18:40
  Gayle George: And in the Plymouth church there's an image of her and the image is of a mock auction where she was auctioned off in the church to the church members and you know that was a church, that was, that was very much you know involved in terms of being like a station on the Underground Railroad and that whole thing.
• 19:02
  Gayle George: And they would do these mock auctions to one.
• 19:06
  Gayle George: You know humanize this experience of, of, of the sale of people, you know the trade of people, and then to raise money, raise funds to, you know, to fund, you know escape journeys and these types of things.
• 19:23
  Gayle George: And it just struck me like the weight of the experience and the moment, because, probably because there were some synergies in terms of that particular experience and my own, but just seeing it, seeing it and then being in that space or seeing that image and being in that space, really started to bring a gravity to the experience in terms of what it was for me personally, that kind of began to overshadow just the novelty of the experience.
• 20:04
  Crista Cowan: Information is often very abstract, and so we have an emotional connection to it, and it sounds like you felt that emotional connection in that moment.
• 20:12
  Crista Cowan: Yeah, definitely that emotional connection in that moment?
• 20:19
  Crista Cowan: Yeah, definitely.
• 20:19
  Crista Cowan: So then, at what point did you really start to understand exactly how you were related to this experience and what it was teaching you about your ancestors?
• 20:28
  Gayle George: Yeah, so that was during the reveal, where I was reading the letter that had been written to me and, kind of, and in the letter that I received I received names of like from a census, you know page in the census which had, you know, my ancestors names, and it was very powerful because you know, even in traditional African society which you know, even in a traditional African society, which you know I've traveled and lived in Africa you know the names, the names, you know the names.
• 21:06
  Gayle George: Being able to call the names or say the names or remember people who have lived before, is so powerful because you know we, you know we're in this form, you know, in this experience, we're in a physical form and this was the name given to that form.
• 21:27
  Gayle George: You know and what's your name, a thing you know is so powerful.
• 21:31
  Gayle George: You know, how do you, how do you, how do you call it?
• 21:33
  Gayle George: So that was just you know and no one could have known necessarily how that particular artifact might affect me, because nobody necessarily knew me, but it was just so meaningful, you know, for me to see the names of of these, these ancestors you know that I didn't know before and you know and then getting the context for the story of who they were, you know, and how we were connected to them.
• 22:03
  Crista Cowan: Yeah, and we see that in the film that impactful moment, as you're reading that and how it moves you, as you sat in that space and read that letter with those people around you, you know, as you started to realize the way you were all connected, what, what was that experience for you?
• 22:21
  Gayle George: it was really, it was really powerful, um, so I knew my cousins that I, you know, came up with because I, you know, I, I knew them, um, them I didn't know Niall, and that was a whole other part of the story that has been really powerful to integrate.
• 22:43
  Gayle George: Most of the family that I grew up with stayed together in the DC area.
• 22:48
  Gayle George: I mentioned that we had this long history but there were people that left.
• 22:54
  Crista Cowan: you know people I can't help but think about like your grandmother is the grandmother to you and your first cousins.
• 23:21
  Crista Cowan: But now your son is another generation removed, which means she's his great grandmother and he has second cousins out there that he may not even know.
• 23:30
  Crista Cowan: And how quickly, within just a generation, those pieces get disconnected.
• 23:36
  Crista Cowan: So the opportunity to reconnect them, whether through an experience like this or through some of the things that you did next.
• 23:44
  Crista Cowan: So as you left this, this experience, you dove headfirst into family history yeah, I just, um, there was a, you know it was a.
• 24:05
  Gayle George: There was a lot of emotions, you know, and I, um took my time to move through them.
• 24:08
  Gayle George: Um, because it's a.
• 24:10
  Gayle George: It's such a complicated legacy, you, you know, and it was important to kind of sort through what I was really feeling in order to guide my next steps.
• 24:26
  Gayle George: So, when I say that, I say that we had this very intimate moment, but it was on films, it was like a public intimacy, you know not, you know nothing risque, but it was an intimate moment.
• 24:40
  Gayle George: And you know, afterwards, processing that, not just not even getting to the dynamics of the legacy itself, but just, you know, I just kept feeling like why didn't we know this?
• 24:54
  Gayle George: Like why didn't we know this story?
• 24:58
  Gayle George: What happened?
• 24:59
  Gayle George: You know, in terms of the information you know to have now, this, as we can be in terms of our own family story, that we should be keepers of that story, because we were keepers of it just by walking around, you know, I mean we just, we just didn't know.
• 25:48
  Gayle George: You know the whole connection.
• 25:51
  Gayle George: So it's taken a while to unpack, you know, those different aspects, because you know that was just one level, which is why didn't we know this and then um, getting into learning more.
• 26:06
  Gayle George: You know about the story and who these people were and you know all kinds of fascinating discoveries, everything from um finding, from finding the unmarked graves of the Weems.
• 26:20
  Gayle George: You know young adult books, you know like a historical fiction, you know all the way to scholarly articles, way to scholarly articles, and you know being able, and then of course, oral history and all kind of you know stuff that people had in the attics and all that kind of thing.
• 27:03
  Gayle George: You know, just being able to, wow, go to each of the places.
• 27:07
  Gayle George: And that's what I felt, that was my impetus as to go to every single place that I knew and that's been locally in DC and nationally and internationally, to just try to retrace the steps you know of my ancestors, because on some level I feel like I was doing that.
• 27:27
  Gayle George: Anyway.
• 27:27
  Gayle George: I was, you know, I was traveling and I was kind of searching, but I didn't have necessarily the question of searching but I didn't have necessarily the question.
• 27:38
  Gayle George: But this experience just kind of helped to shape all of that and also gave me so many wonderful leads of how to find my way, you know, to pull those pieces together and find other descendants to share the history with and that the work was more, you know, in making sure everybody knows that this, you know that this exists, that this story exists, that this is our story, and then creating a centralized place where we can all touch in, you know, to get the information and connect with each other.
• 28:13
  Crista Cowan: You know, as we, as we see fit, there's such a storyteller and a connector and that connection piece is so important and I understand you brought people together for a family reunion.
• 28:27
  Gayle George: Yeah, so I called it an ancestral commemoration and it was a weekend of events.
• 28:33
  Gayle George: We had people come from California, from down south in Tennessee and Kentucky, and, you know, from New York and just all over, who I had been able from the tree that I was able to begin building out from this information that I, you know, received from Ancestry.
• 28:57
  Gayle George: But to everybody, like, just put the word out, like we all need to know and we all need to know each other and be connected and get a greater understanding of our family story.
• 29:11
  Gayle George: You know the story and then who we are, you know today in terms of, you know, being able to be available for each other and that we share this history and that we're all advancing it in our own way and in our own lives.
• 29:26
  Gayle George: You know, but at the same time, we have the capacity to come together and do things together, and so it was really powerful to have so many people come back to walk the you know, the grounds where our ancestors lived and ate and just to connect with each other, you know, in a very significant way, and then to come back, and we actually did it again, and their part two was to lay stones on the graves.
• 29:59
  Gayle George: You know, I just I couldn't sleep.
• 30:01
  Gayle George: You know, I couldn't sleep because I was just like this magnificent story of what these people had accomplished was, you know, just not remembered in terms of you know, I of, you know, I didn't grow up with the story and I just felt like it was a gesture.
• 30:22
  Gayle George: But it's bigger than a gesture because it's also like we will not forget and we will not allow, you know, this story to be forgotten.
• 30:31
  Gayle George: You know and so so, yeah, really very powerful gatherings, you know, and so so, yeah, really very powerful gatherings, you know, in terms of bringing people together and, you know, at least you know, putting a stake in the.
• 30:45
  Gayle George: You know, a stone on the, you know on the plot, to say, you know this, just, you're remembered and we remember.
• 30:53
  Crista Cowan: Yeah, yeah, they were here and their lives mattered and we can tell their stories.
• 30:58
  Crista Cowan: But you've so beautifully illustrated how it's not just their stories, it's the story of the family that came from them and how we're connected to one another.
• 31:07
  Crista Cowan: And the fact that you have made the effort and I know I've planned family reunions I understand the effort that that requires and the time and the emotional and physical energy, and so that's a really beautiful thing that you felt that that was valuable enough to go to that effort to make that happen for yourself, for the ancestors and for your entire family.
• 31:30
  Crista Cowan: I think that's lovely.
• 31:32
  Gayle George: Well, I appreciate that it's been meaningful, lovely.
• 31:34
  Gayle George: We all appreciate that.
• 31:36
  Gayle George: Yeah, it's been meaningful and, as I share the story, I mean everyone from you know, local politicians you know were like everybody should have a family reunion like this, you know, and you know, to individuals like you know, man, I would love to you know I would love to do that, you know, I would love to have that.
• 31:55
  Gayle George: I would love to you know I would love to do that, you know I would love to have that, I would love to you know how do you get started, how do you?
• 32:00
  Gayle George: You know, and, and so I've had, you know, some very interesting connection, you know, come from that in terms of you know what my, you know my vision has been, what my inspiration has been, and then how to help people, yeah, on their journey to have a similar kind of outcome.
• 32:23
  Crista Cowan: So it sounds like maybe that's a little bit about what's next for you as you continue to uncover your own family story, this idea of helping other people who may not even be familially connected to you, recognize that it's possible for them to do the same.
• 32:39
  Gayle George: Yeah, definitely I.
• 32:40
  Gayle George: I am finishing a PhD.
• 33:10
  Gayle George: I went back to school it was a dynamic template almost, you know, for everything in my life and this is how I use it and so.
• 33:20
  Gayle George: But I see it in other people, you know.
• 33:23
  Gayle George: I see it in their, their lives, and experience it as well and have definitely had the opportunity to, you know, assist.
• 33:32
  Gayle George: So one of the things I did was started a documentary.
• 33:37
  Gayle George: You know it's still in process because you know there's so much life, you know, that keeps getting in the way.
• 33:44
  Gayle George: But to tell the story and I called it Awakening Home because that was the experience I had it was like I'm at home, or even in DC I'm at home, but like there's a part of this place that now awakened in the new way that I never knew before, never knew before.
• 34:10
  Gayle George: And you know just the importance of place.
• 34:11
  Gayle George: You know, in our life experience, you know physical place, but also you know that sense of belonging that you know our family history and our family stories can give us.
• 34:21
  Gayle George: You know even some places where you don't belong, you know, but at least there's a distinction.
• 34:26
  Gayle George: You know, you kind of can get a sense of where those lines might be drawn, you know and how that connects to other people.
• 34:37
  Crista Cowan: Some of us have deep roots, like you, in a physical place, but I think there's also those deep roots in emotional or spiritual places that sometimes we're not even aware of.
• 34:47
  Crista Cowan: That family history really helps us uncover and reconnect with.
• 34:52
  Gayle George: Absolutely.
• 34:53
  Gayle George: And then that becomes the humanity piece of it.
• 34:56
  Gayle George: You know, I think of my ancestors as having had the audacity of their humanity, you know, to have their humanity recognized and to express that.
• 35:10
  Gayle George: You know, no, we're going to be free, no, we're going to.
• 35:13
  Gayle George: You know that kind of thing and yeah, I don't care if it's against the law, care about any of that kind of stuff, I don't care if it's against the church or the Bible or whatnot, like we're going to be free.
• 35:24
  Gayle George: And then and then they still came in and created churches and you know, and did all the things.
• 35:30
  Gayle George: So it's very, very interesting, you know, in terms of the dynamic, and I just see myself and I'm seeing opportunities to kind of unfold that through, like I said, the documentary.
• 35:47
  Gayle George: So one of the first things I did was to start a nonprofit organization to preserve the story.
• 35:53
  Gayle George: Initially that was what it was just to preserve the story and let's get some stones laid on the graves.
• 36:01
  Gayle George: But as time goes on, it's definitely making those connections with other families and other people who are discovering their stories.
• 36:13
  Gayle George: There's so many that you know have yet to be told.
• 36:18
  Crista Cowan: What's the name of the nonprofit?
• 36:21
  Gayle George: Weems the People, weems the People Foundation and Weems because that's the Weems family story.
• 36:28
  Gayle George: So it definitely, you know, kind of standing on, because it's such an interesting dynamic to have and to be in the District of Columbia, the nation's capital, you know the beacon of freedom, and then have this story, you know, which was just because at that time it was enslaved territory.
• 36:48
  Gayle George: Know, which was just because at that time it was a slave territory, and so the idea is to stand on the promises you know of the Constitution and you know because they they apply to everyone.
• 36:56
  Gayle George: They really do, and you know, and to what does that mean in terms of our expressions of freedom?
• 37:07
  Gayle George: You know, and, and and that continues to unfold in our individual lives, because you know there is different levels, right, depending on where you are with that, but yeah, so, as you, as we kind of wrap up our time together, this is lovely Gail.
• 37:21
  Crista Cowan: Thank you.
• 37:22
  Crista Cowan: What is it that you hope?
• 37:24
  Gayle George: for the future.
• 37:25
  Gayle George: You know, I said that I would want this experience that I have had for everybody you know and or anybody that that would be open to that, because it's definitely changed the way I walk in the world, definitely changed the way I walk in the world and and the way I view you, know and interact with other people, and I just feel like it's a richness that it's.
• 37:59
  Gayle George: It's beyond anything tangible.
• 38:02
  Gayle George: You know that.
• 38:05
  Gayle George: But that has the power to not just connect people but to connect us within ourselves, which is the true connection in terms of who we really are, because as we bring that forward, we're going to make richer connections with other people and contributions to our society as a whole.
• 38:31
  Crista Cowan: I think that was so beautifully said, that idea that everybody can and I think and you think it sounds like should have this kind of an experience because of the centering and grounding and connecting effect that it has.
• 38:45
  Gayle George: Well, thank you so much for spending some time with me.
• 38:47
  Gayle George: I appreciate it.
• 38:49
  Gayle George: It was good to see you again.
• 38:50
  Crista Cowan: It was Absolutely Lovely to hear your reflections, because I think one of the things we don't do sometimes in family history is pause and reflect on exactly what this really means, and so the fact that you have done so much of that is so evident.
• 39:05
  Crista Cowan: It's been lovely to talk to you and to see you again and to hear your perspective.
• 39:10
  Crista Cowan: I appreciate it.
• 39:12
  Gayle George: I appreciate you.
• 39:12
  Gayle George: Thank you for the opportunity, absolutely.