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Will Chris Christie Back Biden? · Pod Save America

0:20
Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm John Lovett.
0:21
Speaker 2: And I'm Adisu Dumisi.
0:23
Speaker 1: Good to see you. Thanks for being here.
0:24
Speaker 2: Good to be here, man. Live and in person.
0:26
Speaker 1: Live and in person. On today's show, Democrats win back
0:30
Speaker 1: George Sanchez's seat on Long Island. The House impeaches Homeland
0:32
Speaker 1: Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas for his role in a border
0:35
Speaker 1: crisis they refuse to solve. Joe Biden gets on TikTok
0:38
Speaker 1: and just in time for Valentine's Day. Never Trump heartthrob.
0:41
Speaker 1: Chris Christie stops by the show to play fuck, marry,
0:44
Speaker 1: kill with Trump, Biden, Ronald Reagan.
0:46
Speaker 2: Good luck with that.
0:49
Speaker 1: But first, in an eight-point victory that exceeded polling, showing
0:52
Speaker 1: a tighter race, Democrat Tom Suozzi beat Republican Mozzie Pillop
0:55
Speaker 1: in a special election to replace billionaire astronaut George Santos
0:58
Speaker 1: in New York's third district, my childhood district.
1:02
Speaker 2: And Philip is an Ethiopian, like me.
1:06
Speaker 1: Oh, really? Ethiopian Jew, I believe.
1:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's not me.
1:08
Speaker 1: That's not you. The race boiled down to a fight
1:11
Speaker 1: over immigration policy and abortion access, and Democrats are holding
1:14
Speaker 1: Swazi up as an example of how to parry attacks
1:16
Speaker 1: over the migrant crisis. This felt like a tight race,
1:19
Speaker 1: and then it wasn't. What do you think went into
1:21
Speaker 1: the win here?
1:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think a couple things. First, Candidates matter. Philip,
1:27
Speaker 2: God bless my Ethiopian sister, but not a particularly good candidate.
1:31
Speaker 2: Spent the whole race running away from the press. Swazi,
1:34
Speaker 2: a former congressman, a former candidate for governor, former county exec.
1:39
Speaker 2: In a short, compressed special election, it's actually hard to
1:43
Speaker 2: rebrand folks. And he was a good candidate for the race.
1:46
Speaker 2: I think the other thing is campaigns actually can make
1:48
Speaker 2: a difference. Like if this race had been the day
1:51
Speaker 2: that Santos was expelled, I'm not sure it would have
1:53
Speaker 2: been as big of a gap, but, you know, Democrats
1:57
Speaker 2: poured a lot of time, energy, money into this. Seven
2:00
Speaker 2: million by HMP, House Majority PAC, four million I saw
2:04
Speaker 2: this morning from the DCCC, door knocking from unions and
2:08
Speaker 2: LCV and other partners. And so, you know, you put
2:10
Speaker 2: a good candidate together with an actual campaign that's communicating
2:13
Speaker 2: with voters and suddenly you can move the numbers on
2:16
Speaker 2: the margins and get what, you know, six, seven points
2:18
Speaker 2: is like a blowout in a competitive House district.
2:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to spend time on what they did right.
2:24
Speaker 1: But I want to talk for a second just about
2:25
Speaker 1: what the Republican did wrong, because there was a lot
2:28
Speaker 1: of criticism that they weren't going to events, they weren't
2:30
Speaker 1: answering questions. But one of the challenges, they were trying
2:33
Speaker 1: to avoid abortion related questions. And, you know, we went
2:37
Speaker 1: through a midterm in which Democrats weren't able to hold
2:42
Speaker 1: the House in because we lost in places like New
2:45
Speaker 1: York and California where abortion didn't feel as salient. Has
2:48
Speaker 1: that changed as Republicans have embraced an abortion ban?
2:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the answer is yes. There's no doubt
2:54
Speaker 2: in my mind that now we are, what, two years
2:58
Speaker 2: almost removed from Dobbs. It is as salient an issue
3:00
Speaker 2: today as it was then. I think it's going to
3:02
Speaker 2: continue into the fall. I didn't think that was going
3:04
Speaker 2: to be the case, if I'm going to be honest,
3:05
Speaker 2: in the fall or summer of 2022. But I think
3:08
Speaker 2: continuing to hit Republicans over the head with with the
3:12
Speaker 2: abortion issue is going to be a strategy that House, Senate, presidential,
3:17
Speaker 2: every campaign takes going into the fall. It is still
3:19
Speaker 2: as salient as ever. And you got to do it
3:21
Speaker 2: both in paid media, earned media, you name it. It's
3:24
Speaker 2: top of the list and it's going to continue to
3:25
Speaker 2: be top of the list. And I think the DTRIP,
3:28
Speaker 2: the HMPs of the world, the campaign, Swazi himself did
3:31
Speaker 2: it and went on the offense, right? Like that's the
3:33
Speaker 2: other thing. You got to set the terms of the debate.
3:35
Speaker 2: If you're playing poker, you want to be the guy
3:37
Speaker 2: going all in, not the guy put to a tough decision.
3:40
Speaker 2: And Democrats need to do more of that. I think
3:42
Speaker 2: the Swazi campaign did that pretty effectively.
3:44
Speaker 1: So let's talk about where Democrats did feel like they
3:46
Speaker 1: were a little bit on defense, which was on immigration.
3:49
Speaker 1: Swazi openly characterized the immigration situation at the border as
3:53
Speaker 1: a crisis. He talked about migrants streaming across the border.
3:56
Speaker 1: Republicans attacked him for saying two years ago that he, quote,
3:58
Speaker 1: kicked ICE out of Nassau County. That's referring to immigration
4:01
Speaker 1: and customs enforcement. Here's a clip of an ad that
4:04
Speaker 1: Swazi ran in response.
4:06
Speaker 3: You've been hearing a lot of nonsense blaming Tom Swazi
4:09
Speaker 3: for the migrant problem.
4:10
Speaker 4: Really?
4:11
Speaker 1: As the left pushes to abolish ICE, here now is
4:14
Speaker 1: one of the few Democrats who voted to support this
4:16
Speaker 1: vital agency.
4:17
Speaker 5: ICE is an important government agency.
4:19
Speaker 4: They have an important job to do in this country,
4:21
Speaker 4: securing our border.
4:22
Speaker 5: They support strong border security.
4:23
Speaker 3: Tom Suozzi will work with both parties to close illegal
4:26
Speaker 3: immigration routes, but open paths to citizenship for those who
4:29
Speaker 3: follow the rules.
4:30
Speaker 4: And anything else you might hear is garbage. I'm Tom Suozzi,
4:35
Speaker 4: and I approve this message.
4:36
Speaker 2: It's a very Long Island.
4:38
Speaker 1: It's a very Long Island. It's a very Long Island.
4:41
Speaker 1: The accents, the accents, the man on the street accents
4:45
Speaker 1: really just sort of like shove me into a locker,
4:47
Speaker 1: you know? So what do you, what do you, what
4:50
Speaker 1: was your take on his messaging around immigration?
4:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I think it is a, it is a
4:55
Speaker 2: tricky issue for Democrats. I don't think there's any doubt
4:57
Speaker 2: about it. it remains to the top of the list
5:00
Speaker 2: of voter concerns, even in a place like New York
5:03
Speaker 2: that is pretty far away from the border, I would say,
5:07
Speaker 2: whether you like it or not. And campaigns are often,
5:09
Speaker 2: we want to fight them in one place, but the
5:11
Speaker 2: voters tell us what they want campaigns to talk about.
5:14
Speaker 2: And I think it goes back to what I just said,
5:16
Speaker 2: go on the offense, say what you want to say
5:18
Speaker 2: before you're being put in a position to respond to
5:21
Speaker 2: what the other candidates have to say. And Swazi not
5:24
Speaker 2: only took a, I would say, more moderate position on
5:26
Speaker 2: immigration and paid communications, but he actually attacked Pilip for
5:31
Speaker 2: opposing the deal in Congress and basically doing Trump's bidding
5:35
Speaker 2: in terms of killing what I think voters and all
5:38
Speaker 2: of us alike want to see, which is Congress actually
5:40
Speaker 2: to do something about this. So go on the offense,
5:43
Speaker 2: talk about it in the way you want to talk
5:44
Speaker 2: about it, because it's not like you're going to be
5:45
Speaker 2: able to avoid it. The voters are going to make
5:46
Speaker 2: you do it, and certainly the Republicans are going to
5:48
Speaker 2: make you do it. So say what you want to
5:50
Speaker 2: say instead of waiting.
5:51
Speaker 5: Yeah, I was also.
5:52
Speaker 1: a little bit surprised to see in the very limited
5:55
Speaker 1: real estate you have to do any kind of message
5:58
Speaker 1: on immigration. There was still space. It was still important
6:00
Speaker 1: to include a positive pro-immigration message in there. There was
6:04
Speaker 1: still a case for making sure people can come if
6:06
Speaker 1: they follow the rules. There is still, I think... There is, yeah.
6:09
Speaker 2: That's what the voters are.
6:10
Speaker 5: Yeah.
6:11
Speaker 2: Right? The voters aren't... Maybe the mega Republican base is
6:15
Speaker 2: in one place, right? But they're not a majority of
6:17
Speaker 2: the electorate. Democrats... Moderate Democrats, moderate Republicans to the extent
6:21
Speaker 2: they exist in the electorate, if not in Congress, independents,
6:25
Speaker 2: they want Congress to do something that is fair to
6:28
Speaker 2: the people who are here. They want to solve DACA.
6:30
Speaker 2: They want to certainly tighten up border security. There's room
6:34
Speaker 2: for a deal that Congress is apparently trying to make
6:37
Speaker 2: a deal, right, which is crazy. You got 70 senators
6:40
Speaker 2: voting for a deal a couple of days ago on this.
6:43
Speaker 2: It's really the MAGA base that is, you know, that
6:45
Speaker 2: is pulling the Republicans to the right. And we have
6:47
Speaker 2: to take advantage of that by kind of seizing that middle.
6:50
Speaker 1: So Democrats outperform the polling. We've done well in these
6:54
Speaker 1: off-cycle elections. It seems like there's been a kind of
6:57
Speaker 1: flip in the script where Democrats now do better in
6:59
Speaker 1: some of these low turnout elections. At the same time,
7:03
Speaker 1: it does give us some glimmer of hope for our
7:06
Speaker 1: ability to win in some of these close New York districts.
7:08
Speaker 1: New York 4 is currently held by Republicans. He won
7:10
Speaker 1: by 4%.
7:10
Speaker 4: The 17th.
7:13
Speaker 1: Lawler won by 0.64%. That's where Mondaire is running. The 18th, 0.3%.
7:18
Speaker 1: The 22nd, 0.98%. The 19th, 1.6%. So there's a ton
7:23
Speaker 1: of really, really close races here. How much of a
7:26
Speaker 1: lesson can you learn from what just happened?
7:28
Speaker 2: Well, I will say, and I would have said this
7:31
Speaker 2: if the Republicans won on Tuesday as well, you can't
7:35
Speaker 2: read too much into a special election. Like we all
7:37
Speaker 2: have to just take a breath, right? It's February. There
7:39
Speaker 2: was a snowstorm on Long Island. Like Who knows what's
7:42
Speaker 2: going to be happening in November. With that said, I
7:45
Speaker 2: do think it shows, like I said, you know, to start,
7:48
Speaker 2: campaigns matter. Candidate quality matters. We saw this in 2022, right?
7:52
Speaker 2: If the Republicans in all these primaries nominate right-wing lunatics,
7:57
Speaker 2: it creates a lot of space for us, and I
7:58
Speaker 2: think they're going to. It creates a lot of space
8:00
Speaker 2: for us on the left and Democrats to win these elections, right?
8:04
Speaker 2: And Swazi obviously took advantage of that. I think you're
8:08
Speaker 2: going to see that in New York. You're going to
8:09
Speaker 2: see that in California.
8:10
Speaker 1: Yeah.
8:11
Speaker 2: You know, we can basically, not basically, we can take
8:13
Speaker 2: back the House basically just winning California and New York
8:17
Speaker 2: Republican-held swing districts. So it's interesting because that's a map
8:20
Speaker 2: that's totally divorced from the Senate map and from the
8:22
Speaker 2: presidential map. But it's where this thing I think is
8:25
Speaker 2: going to be won or lost. And the House might
8:27
Speaker 2: be our, you know, best chance to pick up a chamber.
8:30
Speaker 1: And so let's talk about what's actually happening in the
8:32
Speaker 1: House where Republicans I don't think are really helping themselves.
8:36
Speaker 1: Last night, Republicans succeeded in impeaching Alejandro Mayorkas, the Secretary
8:40
Speaker 1: of Homeland Security, allegedly for not following the country's immigration laws.
8:43
Speaker 1: The resolution passed by a single vote after Majority Leader
8:45
Speaker 1: Steve Scalise arrived back at the Capitol from cancer treatment.
8:48
Speaker 1: Mayorkas becomes the first cabinet official to be impeached since 1876.
8:51
Speaker 1: The mutton chops era.
8:54
Speaker 5: It's a joke.
8:56
Speaker 1: It would need two-thirds, obviously, in the Senate, which is
8:59
Speaker 1: controlled by Democrats. Yeah, it's not going to happen. Yeah,
9:01
Speaker 1: Democrats in the Senate are just figuring out how quickly
9:02
Speaker 1: they can get rid of this thing. Only three Republicans...
9:05
Speaker 1: voted no. Mike Gallagher, Ken Buck, Tom McClintock, Gallagher isn't
9:09
Speaker 1: running again. Now, at the same time, just to underscore
9:13
Speaker 1: the politics here, a blueprint poll found that when voters
9:16
Speaker 1: are presented with a generic ballot, Democrats lead by three points.
9:19
Speaker 1: But when presented with a Democrat who supports the bipartisan
9:22
Speaker 1: border deal versus a Republican who supports impeaching Mayorkas, the
9:26
Speaker 1: Democrat leads by 13 points. Why were only three Republicans
9:31
Speaker 1: able to vote in a way that is just good politics? Yeah.
9:36
Speaker 2: They are terrified of Donald Trump. The answer is they
9:38
Speaker 2: are terrified of Donald Trump. And I think when we
9:40
Speaker 2: were in San Jose, the last time I was on
9:41
Speaker 2: the show, I said this, the Republican Party is the
9:45
Speaker 2: party of Donald Trump and Maga now. It just is.
9:47
Speaker 2: If 214 Republicans are going to vote for a political
9:51
Speaker 2: stunt that they know has no future and is frankly
9:54
Speaker 2: a terrible precedent for the United States, just because basically
9:57
Speaker 2: Donald Trump told them to do it, that's where we are, right?
10:00
Speaker 2: The reason why Republicans won't vote for this is because
10:02
Speaker 2: they're scared that Donald Trump is going to bash them
10:04
Speaker 2: over the head. They're going to lose in the primary.
10:06
Speaker 2: They're going to have the MAGA base turn against them.
10:07
Speaker 2: They're more scared of that than what hopefully is going
10:10
Speaker 2: to happen in November, which is that they lose the
10:12
Speaker 2: general election against a Democrat. And obviously in some of
10:14
Speaker 2: these Republican districts, there's, you know, That's not a possibility.
10:17
Speaker 2: But these swing district Republicans who are voting to impeach Mayorkas,
10:21
Speaker 2: they're putting themselves in danger, but they're showing that they're
10:24
Speaker 2: wholly owned subsidiaries of Donald Trump.
10:25
Speaker 1: Is it in any way like a sop to the
10:28
Speaker 1: base to Trump because they know that as bad as
10:30
Speaker 1: the politics on Mayorkas are, the politics on impeaching Biden
10:34
Speaker 1: would be that much worse?
10:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it is a bit of a cop
10:38
Speaker 2: out on the Biden impeachment stuff, which, you know, it's like, OK, well,
10:43
Speaker 2: you I want steak for dinner, but instead I'll get,
10:46
Speaker 2: you know, beyond meat or something with all due respect
10:48
Speaker 2: to the vegans out there, um, or vegetarians. But, but yeah,
10:53
Speaker 2: I think it's a, it's a cop out.
10:54
Speaker 6: Right.
10:54
Speaker 2: But it also, it, I don't think it's going to
10:55
Speaker 2: play well.
10:56
Speaker 4: Right.
10:56
Speaker 2: It's not going to play well, uh, with, with swing
10:59
Speaker 2: voters who understand that impeachment is for, is something you
11:02
Speaker 2: use for extraordinary circumstances. And this is a policy disagreement, right?
11:06
Speaker 1: Sure.
11:07
Speaker 2: You might disagree with, uh, with somebody, but you don't
11:09
Speaker 2: impeach them because you think they're running bad policy. You
11:11
Speaker 2: impeach them for high crimes and misdemeanors. And, um, I
11:14
Speaker 2: voters are smarter than we give them credit for. Oftentimes,
11:17
Speaker 2: I think all the time. And these folks are, you know, again,
11:21
Speaker 2: they're more scared of they're more scared of the right
11:22
Speaker 2: base than they are of losing in a general election
11:25
Speaker 2: that should play to our benefit in November.
11:27
Speaker 1: So it's very hard to change. I think a long
11:29
Speaker 1: held perception, one of which is Republicans are just tougher
11:32
Speaker 1: on the border and Democrats aren't. That's what we see
11:34
Speaker 1: in polls. When people are concerned about the borders, they
11:36
Speaker 1: support Republican policies over Democratic policies. They are more likely
11:39
Speaker 1: to trust a Republican over a Democrat. Is their bumbling
11:43
Speaker 1: in the last couple of weeks bad enough to change
11:46
Speaker 1: that dynamic? Or will it– can it turn an advantage
11:50
Speaker 1: into a disadvantage or is it only bad enough to
11:53
Speaker 1: mute an advantage?
11:56
Speaker 2: That's a really good question. I think playing to a
11:59
Speaker 2: draw is probably– it's good, right? Yeah, yeah. And obviously
12:03
Speaker 2: an advantage is better. But playing to a draw on
12:05
Speaker 2: this is good. Republicans have traditionally had an advantage on
12:08
Speaker 2: this issue and I think they just lit that on fire.
12:10
Speaker 2: with what they've done this week. Not just the Mayorkas thing,
12:12
Speaker 2: but now the House not even taking up this border
12:16
Speaker 2: deal that the Senate passed in a massively bipartisan way.
12:19
Speaker 2: And so they are showing pretty clearly that they just
12:23
Speaker 2: want immigration as an issue. They want the issue. They
12:26
Speaker 2: don't want to solve it. And I actually think from
12:28
Speaker 2: a message perspective going forward for House candidates, for Senate candidates,
12:31
Speaker 2: for President Biden, that works with voters. It worked in
12:34
Speaker 2: 2020 that Biden is the one who's actually going to
12:36
Speaker 2: bring people together, solve try to solve problems. He's proven
12:40
Speaker 2: that over the course of the last three years. And
12:41
Speaker 2: once again, 70 senators voted for something. That's a fucking
12:44
Speaker 2: miracle in 2024. And yet, you know, Matt Gaetz and
12:49
Speaker 2: his merry band of idiots in the House are going
12:52
Speaker 2: to stop something that majority of senators and majority of
12:55
Speaker 2: Americans agree with. It will hurt. I think it will
12:57
Speaker 2: hurt if we push that message publicly come the fall campaign.
13:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, so Chris Murphy, I think, has a lot of
13:04
Speaker 1: righteous indignation right now, in part because he spent a
13:06
Speaker 1: lot of time trying to figure out this border deal.
13:10
Speaker 1: And so the Senate passes a foreign aid bill that
13:13
Speaker 1: has money for Ukraine, Israel, Taiwan, humanitarian assistance for Gaza.
13:18
Speaker 1: This is the version that strips out the border security
13:21
Speaker 1: deal that Murphy and Lankford made. It goes over to
13:25
Speaker 1: the House. Now, House Republicans said they won't vote for
13:28
Speaker 1: a Ukraine bill unless there's a border bill. Then Trump
13:31
Speaker 1: said don't do that, I want the border chaos. They said, okay,
13:33
Speaker 1: we won't pass the border deal. They strip out the
13:35
Speaker 1: border deal. Now Mike Johnson says, well, we can't pass
13:37
Speaker 1: the Ukraine deal without a border deal. So House Republicans
13:44
Speaker 1: have now basically set up a situation where they've impeached
13:47
Speaker 1: Mayorkas over a crisis they will refuse to solve. There's
13:50
Speaker 1: a majority of Democrats and Republicans that would like to
13:55
Speaker 1: vote for Ukraine aid, Israel aid, Taiwan aid. He has
13:59
Speaker 1: an even slimmer majority than ever before, right?
14:01
Speaker 5: He just lost.
14:02
Speaker 2: He just lost as of Tuesday.
14:04
Speaker 1: George Santos just posted minus one. The next time he
14:07
Speaker 1: doesn't have a hope of filling a seat is in
14:09
Speaker 1: May when McCarthy's.
14:11
Speaker 2: Seat could be filled by Republican.
14:13
Speaker 5: What happens?
14:15
Speaker 2: Smarter minds and I are going to have to figure
14:17
Speaker 2: that out. I think, look, I've never been Speaker.
14:20
Speaker 6: Of the House.
14:21
Speaker 2: I don't want the doubt.
14:22
Speaker 1: Which is frankly a shame.
14:23
Speaker 2: I know.
14:23
Speaker 4: Exactly.
14:24
Speaker 2: If you want to elect me next January, guys.
14:26
Speaker 5: You don't have to be a member.
14:27
Speaker 2: You don't have to be a member of the House. No,
14:29
Speaker 2: please elect Hakeem Jeffries. But when you only have a
14:32
Speaker 2: four-seat majority, two-seat majority, I think, as it is right now,
14:35
Speaker 2: or you can only lose two votes, everybody matters, right?
14:38
Speaker 2: And that's the problem that if I'm giving Johnson the
14:41
Speaker 2: benefit of the doubt that he has to deal with
14:43
Speaker 2: is that Matt Gaetz and Marjorie Taylor Greene can torpedo
14:46
Speaker 2: literally anything that might come to the floor of the House.
14:48
Speaker 2: And Um, they've, they've proven themselves, uh, willing to do that.
14:53
Speaker 2: And so he's in a pickle. If this thing came
14:55
Speaker 2: to the floor, it would pass. I truly believe it
14:58
Speaker 2: would lose some votes on the, on the left. It
14:59
Speaker 2: would lose some votes on the right. It would pass.
15:01
Speaker 2: It would pass in the middle. The question is, will
15:03
Speaker 2: he be willing to take the political hit? I think
15:06
Speaker 2: from the right, he being Johnson to bring it up.
15:09
Speaker 2: I don't know what the guy, I don't know if
15:11
Speaker 2: he's willing to do it. He, I think the honeymoon
15:12
Speaker 2: period might be over in the post McCarthy area era,
15:15
Speaker 2: and we might be stuck. in this position where a
15:18
Speaker 2: majority of the House, a majority of the Senate, the
15:20
Speaker 2: president's willing to sign it, the majority of American people
15:22
Speaker 2: want to do it, and the Gateses and Taylor Greens
15:25
Speaker 2: of the world stop us from having a real solution
15:28
Speaker 2: to a real problem.
15:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wonder too, it's the fact that only three
15:32
Speaker 1: Republicans were able to buck voting for the impeachment does
15:36
Speaker 1: not bode well for like a discharge position, which would
15:38
Speaker 1: basically what that would mean is If there is a
15:40
Speaker 1: majority of people in the House that want to pass
15:44
Speaker 1: a bipartisan aid bill for Ukraine, Israel, and Taiwan, they
15:48
Speaker 1: can if everyone signs a letter. 213 Democrats have already
15:54
Speaker 1: signed that kind of a letter. A few would probably
15:56
Speaker 1: drop off because they don't believe in unconditional aid for Israel.
15:59
Speaker 1: But nonetheless, you need a dozen or so Republicans to say,
16:02
Speaker 1: I'm willing to do this, but none of them want
16:04
Speaker 1: to go first.
16:05
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think it's a collective action problem.
16:07
Speaker 6: As always.
16:08
Speaker 2: As always, right? No one wants to be that first Republican.
16:11
Speaker 2: If you can get a group of whatever, I can't
16:14
Speaker 2: do the math off the top of my head, but 12, 15,
16:16
Speaker 2: whatever it'll be once you subtract the Democrats, it would
16:19
Speaker 2: drop off maybe. But I think the odds are low.
16:22
Speaker 2: I think it ultimately is going to be a Speaker
16:24
Speaker 2: Johnson question and whether or not he wants to govern
16:26
Speaker 2: or whether or not he wants to be a tool
16:29
Speaker 2: of Donald Trump. And I think I know where this
16:31
Speaker 2: thing is headed.
16:32
Speaker 1: It is just so galling that they would not... So
16:38
Speaker 1: there are Republicans or establishment foreign policy types that just
16:42
Speaker 1: want to do the Ukraine aid because they understand and
16:44
Speaker 1: believe in the importance of supporting Ukraine in that war.
16:48
Speaker 1: And they have seen, they all say that in their
16:51
Speaker 1: kind of closed door briefings that Ukraine could lose and
16:55
Speaker 1: the consequences would be catastrophic. But they were also... open
16:59
Speaker 1: and willing to do the border deal until Trump tried
17:01
Speaker 1: to squash it. Then, because the border piece of it
17:05
Speaker 1: got killed, they did just the aid. And then Attorney
17:09
Speaker 1: General of Texas Ken Paxton posts, unbelievable that John Cornyn
17:13
Speaker 1: would stay up all night to defend other countries' borders
17:15
Speaker 1: but not America. That's what Ken Paxton posts on X. Now,
17:20
Speaker 1: Cornyn replies, Ken, your criminal defense lawyers are calling to
17:26
Speaker 1: suggest you spend less time pushing Russian propaganda. and more
17:29
Speaker 1: time defending longstanding felony charges against you in Houston, as
17:33
Speaker 1: well as ongoing federal grand jury proceedings in San Antonio
17:36
Speaker 1: that will probably result in further criminal charges.
17:39
Speaker 2: Spicy in the Texas Republican Party. Who knew?
17:43
Speaker 5: I love it.
17:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, me too.
17:44
Speaker 1: I love it. Ken Paxton is a fucking prick.
17:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, he deserves it.
17:48
Speaker 1: He deserves it. Also, John Cornyn fucking deserves it because
17:51
Speaker 1: he went along with stripping out the border deal that
17:54
Speaker 1: they demanded.
17:55
Speaker 2: So there you go. They're making misstep after misstep, I think,
17:59
Speaker 2: and it's putting them in a– to your original question here.
18:02
Speaker 2: They are giving up an issue that they had an
18:04
Speaker 2: advantage on and they're doing it in the most clumsy,
18:07
Speaker 2: dumb way possible. The question is can we take advantage
18:09
Speaker 2: of it politically speaking, right? Well, I think the first
18:12
Speaker 2: question is can we actually pass something? Because I do
18:14
Speaker 2: think from a messaging perspective, it would be fantastic for
18:19
Speaker 2: Democrats to be able to go out there and say
18:21
Speaker 2: we did something about this or we tried to do
18:23
Speaker 2: something about this. Good for Biden. Good for Senate and
18:25
Speaker 2: House Democrats to do that. But in the event that
18:28
Speaker 2: what I think will happen happens, they have given us
18:31
Speaker 2: all the tools. They have given us the hammer. They
18:33
Speaker 2: have given us the nail. We just have to pound
18:35
Speaker 2: it in here. And it's clear that there's a divide
18:37
Speaker 2: within their own party between the sort of traditionalists and
18:41
Speaker 2: the MAGA folks on this particular issue. And we need
18:43
Speaker 2: to exploit it.
18:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's also, you know, Washington Post found that every
18:48
Speaker 1: Ukraine aid vote has gotten at least 73% support in
18:51
Speaker 1: the House. So every vote has been bipartisan.
18:52
Speaker 7: Why?
18:53
Speaker 5: Because.
18:54
Speaker 1: when even though the Republican base and actually the country is,
18:57
Speaker 1: I think, less behind foreign military support in general than
19:02
Speaker 1: I think Republicans, Democrats in Washington are, regardless, a majority
19:06
Speaker 1: understands the stakes and that they're not just about pleasing
19:09
Speaker 1: Donald Trump or winning over the base, that there's a
19:11
Speaker 1: real conflict with real consequences, very dangerous, that they all
19:16
Speaker 1: understand they have a role in supporting our ally. And
19:20
Speaker 1: the fact that we're in a place where Mike Johnson
19:23
Speaker 1: is basically boxed him into the point where he can't
19:27
Speaker 1: do what 73% of the House thinks is essential for
19:30
Speaker 1: national security despite the politics.
19:32
Speaker 2: And I would guess a majority or close to it
19:33
Speaker 2: of his own caucus, right?
19:34
Speaker 5: For sure.
19:35
Speaker 1: For sure.
19:35
Speaker 2: Obviously the majority of the Democratic caucus.
19:38
Speaker 1: I mean, the majority of the Republicans would absolutely vote
19:40
Speaker 1: for this if it was an anonymous vote. Oh, they
19:42
Speaker 1: may be afraid of their bait, afraid of the base
19:45
Speaker 1: on the floor.
19:46
Speaker 2: Unquestionably. And yeah, it's, uh, I mean, it's sad. It's
19:49
Speaker 2: a sad, it's a sad commentary on the Republican party, but, uh,
19:52
Speaker 2: and on the state of, you know, uh, of Congress
19:55
Speaker 2: as it were, but, um, but it's a political opportunity.
19:58
Speaker 1: Right.
19:58
Speaker 2: And I am a political practitioner.
20:01
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah.
20:02
Speaker 2: That's exactly what you are. Yeah, it's true. What I
20:04
Speaker 2: think of first is how do we use this to
20:06
Speaker 2: win the election so that we have more Democrats in
20:08
Speaker 2: Congress so that Hakeem Jeffries is the speaker, so Chuck
20:11
Speaker 2: Schumer stays the Senate Majority Leader, so Joe Biden stays
20:14
Speaker 2: the president, so we might actually, you know, I would
20:16
Speaker 2: rather Hakeem Jeffries be sitting there making this decision than
20:20
Speaker 2: Mike Johnson, and we have that choice in nine months.
20:22
Speaker 6: Thank you.
20:35
Speaker 1: So speaking of crass political concerns, Trump is asserting his
20:39
Speaker 1: control not just over the House, but over the Republican
20:41
Speaker 1: Party at large. In a statement on Monday night, Trump
20:44
Speaker 1: announced that he is endorsing his very talented daughter-in-law, Lara Trump,
20:47
Speaker 1: to serve as RNC co-chair. Trump also endorsed his friend,
20:51
Speaker 1: the chairman of the North Carolina Republican Party, and announced
20:54
Speaker 1: that one of his top campaign advisors will become the
20:56
Speaker 1: RNC's chief operating officer. Nikki Haley said she thinks Trump
21:00
Speaker 1: is trying to swing the election by taking over the
21:02
Speaker 1: party apparatus. which is just, I can't believe she'd think that.
21:05
Speaker 2: Let's hear the clip.
21:06
Speaker 1: He's named. Who's going to be the new RNC chair.
21:09
Speaker 7: His daughter-in-law will be the co-chair and he is making
21:13
Speaker 7: his campaign.
21:13
Speaker 3: Manager, the officer that runs the party. Think about what's
21:19
Speaker 3: happening right now.
21:20
Speaker 7: Is that how you're going to try and take an election?
21:24
Speaker 5: I mean, yeah. Oh yes.
21:25
Speaker 2: Yes. The answer is yes.
21:26
Speaker 5: No, no, we like this. This is good. Uh, Wow.
21:29
Speaker 1: Laura Trump, she must have really wowed him in the interview.
21:32
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, again, this is the guy who put
21:34
Speaker 2: his daughter and son-in-law in the West Wing. So we
21:37
Speaker 2: can't really, I mean, this is at least down the
21:39
Speaker 2: street a little bit. But I mean, do you expect
21:42
Speaker 2: any more from Donald Trump? No, right? The RNC, by
21:45
Speaker 2: the time election day comes around, is just going to
21:47
Speaker 2: be another account for him to pay his legal bills.
21:49
Speaker 2: And that's what he sees. And is this actually rigging
21:53
Speaker 2: the election? No, like this is, it's another Trump evidence
21:58
Speaker 2: of trump just taking over the party literally right um
22:00
Speaker 2: putting his family member who's never been involved in republican
22:03
Speaker 2: politics in a position of considerable power um yeah he likes.
22:07
Speaker 1: Putting his name i mean his name was already all
22:08
Speaker 1: over this but he likes putting his name on the outside.
22:10
Speaker 2: Yeah it might he might just put like a big
22:12
Speaker 2: trump sign on the rnc building uh you know after
22:14
Speaker 2: he's the official nominee which would not be would be
22:18
Speaker 2: par for the course.
22:18
Speaker 1: For the guy is there any actual practical implications of
22:22
Speaker 1: this so rana rana nay romney mcdaniel uh uh It
22:26
Speaker 1: looks like she's going to step down after South Carolina.
22:29
Speaker 1: Latest polls showed Trump beating Nikki Haley in South Carolina by,
22:32
Speaker 1: I think, 35 points. He already is in control of
22:34
Speaker 1: the party, right? Is there anything that would change after
22:35
Speaker 1: this exchange of keys?
22:38
Speaker 2: No, I don't think so at all. Romney-McDaniel was a
22:42
Speaker 2: tool of Trump, certainly in 2020. It's just going to
22:46
Speaker 2: be a new tool for Trump to use and a
22:48
Speaker 2: new bank account to pay his legal bills, like I
22:50
Speaker 2: said before. That is what the RNC will be come
22:54
Speaker 2: the general election. And so it doesn't really matter Let's
22:57
Speaker 2: be fair. The nominee of the party should have control
23:01
Speaker 2: over who the chair of the party is in the
23:04
Speaker 2: presidential cycle. Joe Biden helped put Jamie Harrison there. It
23:07
Speaker 2: is what it is. The bad part here is it's
23:10
Speaker 2: just another evidence of nepotism and Trump treating politics like
23:14
Speaker 2: a family business and not like a government to help
23:18
Speaker 2: regular people. But it's not going to materially affect the
23:21
Speaker 2: election at all. And I think it's, you know, it's
23:23
Speaker 2: pretty standard politics to install your person at the, at
23:25
Speaker 2: the head of the, at the party.
23:27
Speaker 1: So, uh, before we let you go, there was, there was, uh,
23:31
Speaker 1: John and Tommy and I, we sort of talked a
23:34
Speaker 1: bit through the democratic freak out after this, her report
23:37
Speaker 1: that kind of made aspersions about Joe Biden and his
23:40
Speaker 1: age and his memory. Uh, first of all, just sort
23:43
Speaker 1: of curious what you think the Biden campaign should be
23:46
Speaker 1: doing strategy wise to, uh, fight back against this narrative here.
23:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think they're doing a lot of it now,
23:53
Speaker 2: or they're starting to do a lot of it now
23:55
Speaker 2: that the campaign is switching into a new mode. Trump
23:57
Speaker 2: is the, if he's not the actual presumptive nominee, everybody
23:59
Speaker 2: kind of knows he's going to be there. The campaign
24:01
Speaker 2: has been messaging that more. And you switch into general
24:05
Speaker 2: election mode, and that means putting the president out there.
24:07
Speaker 2: We've seen him go to North Carolina, sit down for
24:10
Speaker 2: dinner with families, visit with folks who had their student
24:13
Speaker 2: loans forgiven, et cetera, et cetera, and be in these
24:15
Speaker 2: environments where you can see him be president and be
24:18
Speaker 2: a presidential candidate in real time. I think that is
24:21
Speaker 2: what people want to see. Um, and you know, he's
24:23
Speaker 2: up to the job. I believe he's up to the job,
24:26
Speaker 2: but voters need to believe it.
24:27
Speaker 6: Right.
24:28
Speaker 2: And the way they believe it is by seeing him
24:29
Speaker 2: do the job, uh, and do the job of campaigning
24:31
Speaker 2: as well, which we expect from a presidential candidate, even
24:34
Speaker 2: if he's the incumbent. So ultimately the it's up to,
24:37
Speaker 2: it's up to the president to perform. I have every
24:39
Speaker 2: confidence he will perform, got to put them out there
24:41
Speaker 2: to perform. Um, and, uh, we'll see more. And I
24:44
Speaker 2: think obviously, We got the State of the Union coming
24:47
Speaker 2: up next month. You got the convention after that. You've
24:49
Speaker 2: got nine months of a campaign in front of us.
24:52
Speaker 2: The more we see him, the more we'll understand. Sure,
24:55
Speaker 2: the number might be high in his age, but the
24:58
Speaker 2: question isn't actually just about the number. It's about fitness.
25:00
Speaker 2: Is he fit for the job? And he is fit
25:02
Speaker 2: for the job, and he will prove it over the
25:03
Speaker 2: course of the campaign.
25:04
Speaker 4: Yeah.
25:04
Speaker 1: I mean, the other number that's high is the number
25:05
Speaker 1: of people who say that they have a very serious
25:07
Speaker 1: concern up to saying they believe he is not up
25:10
Speaker 1: to the job. And we can blame the media for this, whatever,
25:13
Speaker 1: but they're seeing something with their own eyes and coming
25:16
Speaker 1: to a conclusion. I sort of, I want to believe
25:21
Speaker 1: that that is surmountable, that Biden being out there can
25:25
Speaker 1: address this issue. How will we know before November 6th
25:30
Speaker 1: that Joe Biden has successfully shown people that while they
25:34
Speaker 1: may not stop having a concern about age, that it
25:37
Speaker 1: is a surmountable concern compared to the insurmountable concerns about
25:40
Speaker 1: Donald Trump's chaos and fitness?
25:43
Speaker 2: I don't know how we'll know. I mean, I think
25:44
Speaker 2: we'll know on November 6th when we see the votes
25:46
Speaker 2: come in, because I do think it is a threshold
25:48
Speaker 2: issue in the election. But I guess my point is,
25:51
Speaker 2: it is not an insurmountable one. And actually, the solution
25:55
Speaker 2: is pretty clear, which is show that you're up to
25:58
Speaker 2: the job. And he does that. You think about the
26:01
Speaker 2: January 6th speech, the speech after October 7th, last year's
26:04
Speaker 2: State of the Union, which I think was one of
26:06
Speaker 2: his best moments of his entire presidency and performance, the debates, obviously,
26:09
Speaker 2: in 2020. When debates in 2020 in the primaries when
26:12
Speaker 2: he was up, you know, and on his last legs
26:15
Speaker 2: and politically speaking and performed and took over the primary
26:19
Speaker 2: in a few days. So when the chips are down
26:22
Speaker 2: and where things look bad, Joe Biden tends to perform, right?
26:24
Speaker 2: And I think the question is, will he do it, right?
26:28
Speaker 2: That's the political question right now. I believe he will,
26:31
Speaker 2: but we'll know when he does it, right? And there
26:33
Speaker 2: will be plenty of opportunities between, you know, February 14th
26:36
Speaker 2: and November 6th for him to show that to the
26:39
Speaker 2: American public. There'll also be paid advertising. There will be
26:42
Speaker 2: an entire campaign. Just thinking back to our original conversation
26:45
Speaker 2: about New York three and Swazi, like things change over
26:50
Speaker 2: the course of the campaign and things, you know, and
26:53
Speaker 2: nine months is an eternity, right? So there'll be advertising,
26:55
Speaker 2: there'll be things we can't expect. There'll be things we
26:57
Speaker 2: can't expect. And he will have to prove in the
27:01
Speaker 2: crucible of a campaign that he is up to the job,
27:04
Speaker 2: but I think he will do it. And I think
27:06
Speaker 2: we'll know it because he'll win the election.
27:08
Speaker 1: Are there, so they launched a Tik TOK, During the
27:10
Speaker 1: Super Bowl.
27:11
Speaker 5: Yeah. Is that good? Is that helpful?
27:13
Speaker 2: I think so. I think so. I think it's a
27:15
Speaker 2: tough one, right? I think we also talked about this
27:18
Speaker 2: in San Jose with respect to Facebook and X even,
27:21
Speaker 2: these platforms that are problematic in certain ways, right? TikTok
27:25
Speaker 2: in a different way from a national security perspective. But Democrats,
27:31
Speaker 2: I think we talk a lot about having message problem,
27:34
Speaker 2: which sure we do. Like there are things we can
27:36
Speaker 2: do better. There are things specific candidates can do better, etc.,
27:39
Speaker 2: But I actually think we have more of a message
27:40
Speaker 2: delivery problem, which is that the media environment is so
27:44
Speaker 2: fragmented now that it's just hard to reach people. And
27:46
Speaker 2: it used to be the nightly news and three old
27:49
Speaker 2: white guys giving the whole country their political news. And
27:51
Speaker 2: it should be three younger.
27:53
Speaker 1: White guys doing a podcast.
27:54
Speaker 2: It should be three younger white guys. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
27:59
Speaker 2: But now it's just, it's fractured, right? It's really hard
28:02
Speaker 2: to get to people, young people in particular, but it's
28:05
Speaker 2: true of older people as well. And I think Using
28:07
Speaker 2: TikTok as a medium to communicate with people, using X,
28:09
Speaker 2: using Facebook, et cetera, it's just required. Whether you like
28:12
Speaker 2: it or not, it's a required part of actually reaching
28:15
Speaker 2: people where they are. And if you are running for
28:17
Speaker 2: president and you're not there, you're missing an entire swath
28:20
Speaker 2: of people and where the conversation is happening. So they
28:22
Speaker 2: have to do it. And I think it's a smart
28:23
Speaker 2: thing to do. And I think they've done, from a
28:25
Speaker 2: content perspective, a good job. It'll get better. I'm sure
28:28
Speaker 2: they'll have some cringe moments too.
28:29
Speaker 1: It is what it is. My official position is cringe
28:32
Speaker 1: is good. More cringe, do cringe.
28:34
Speaker 2: Just get to people, man. I'd rather people hear from
28:37
Speaker 2: the president than not, right? And hear from whatever right-wing lunatic.
28:41
Speaker 1: Pokemon go to the fucking polls. But no, my feeling
28:45
Speaker 1: about this is that of course he should be on TikTok.
28:48
Speaker 1: And of course they should be, I think, trying to
28:50
Speaker 1: make content that is made for TikTok. But what I've
28:53
Speaker 1: been thinking about just the last couple of days, especially
28:55
Speaker 1: since this report came out is, One way I think people,
28:59
Speaker 1: one big challenge we have, right, is that there's this
29:03
Speaker 1: perception reality disconnect. And if I was being honest, what
29:07
Speaker 1: I would say is Joe Biden, by all accounts behind
29:10
Speaker 1: the scenes, he's not as energetic as he was as
29:12
Speaker 1: an older man, but he is sharp. He is on
29:14
Speaker 1: top of these issues. And he has been certainly on
29:17
Speaker 1: domestic policy, an extraordinary president. Even, you know, Kevin McCarthy says,
29:21
Speaker 1: you know, that Joe Biden, you know, is as sharp
29:23
Speaker 1: as a tack, even if he pretends otherwise in public.
29:26
Speaker 1: And yet, I think sometimes he seems older and he
29:28
Speaker 1: seems frail. Donald Trump, felony indictment will sharpen the mind.
29:32
Speaker 1: He is energetic and bombastic on stage, which assuages people
29:38
Speaker 1: about his advanced age, yet behind the scenes he's not.
29:40
Speaker 1: is mentally, psychologically, emotionally unfit to be president. And I
29:46
Speaker 1: wonder if there are ways in which the Biden campaign
29:49
Speaker 1: can show and not tell story about that beyond just
29:53
Speaker 1: giving energetic and good speeches, which I think you're right,
29:55
Speaker 1: January 6th, the speech was excellent. The State of the
29:57
Speaker 1: Union was excellent. What can we do to show people
30:01
Speaker 1: Joe Biden as president to make that argument rather than
30:05
Speaker 1: tell that argument?
30:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, I mean, like I said, I think
30:08
Speaker 2: what they've been doing, particularly in social media spaces, is
30:12
Speaker 2: put him with real people. It's where he always has excelled.
30:15
Speaker 2: If you think back to even his 08 campaign, but
30:18
Speaker 2: certainly Um, when he was, when he was chosen as
30:20
Speaker 2: vice president and what they, what the Obama campaign did
30:22
Speaker 2: with him in 08 is they sent him out to,
30:25
Speaker 2: you know, where white folks are basically and let him
30:29
Speaker 2: be Joe. And, uh, uh, he, you know, with all it's, it's, uh,
30:34
Speaker 2: it's warts and it's, it's pluses and minuses. And I
30:36
Speaker 2: think people still, I know this from research and I
30:40
Speaker 2: know this from my gut still think Joe Biden is
30:42
Speaker 2: a good and decent man. He might be an older,
30:44
Speaker 2: good and decent man, but he's a good and decent
30:46
Speaker 2: man who is has the best interests of the country
30:49
Speaker 2: at heart and reminding them of that by putting him,
30:52
Speaker 2: him in sort of positions where he can show it
30:56
Speaker 2: can overcome sort of the, the reality that, that he's older,
30:59
Speaker 2: four years older than he was, you know, four years ago.
31:00
Speaker 2: And so that is to me, the, you know, that's the,
31:05
Speaker 2: the campaign strategy piece of this, right? You got to
31:07
Speaker 2: put them in, in, uh, uh, positions to be himself
31:12
Speaker 2: and show the best of himself. And, um, That's what
31:15
Speaker 2: a campaign is. I'm going back to that. Like we
31:17
Speaker 2: have nine months to do that. And, um, I think
31:20
Speaker 2: they will do that. I hope they will do that
31:22
Speaker 2: and it will find its way to the voters. Then
31:25
Speaker 2: you have on top of that, you have to layer
31:26
Speaker 2: on advertising and other, you know, the other things that
31:28
Speaker 2: go into communicating a message and sort of mainlining it
31:31
Speaker 2: to people that earn media, the paid media, et cetera.
31:33
Speaker 2: But ultimately it's about the president and his ability to,
31:36
Speaker 2: to show it. And you gotta, you know, put them
31:39
Speaker 2: in places where he can show it.
31:41
Speaker 1: I think that's a good place to leave it. Yeah.
31:44
Speaker 1: So good to see you.
31:44
Speaker 2: So good to see you too. Good to be here
31:46
Speaker 2: in person. So smart.
31:47
Speaker 5: So helpful. I try.
31:48
Speaker 2: I try.
31:50
Speaker 1: Realistic. Yeah. Reassuring, but not too reassuring.
31:54
Speaker 2: It's good. Got to keep it 100.
31:56
Speaker 1: We'll be right back with my conversation with Governor Chris Christie,
32:00
Speaker 1: which was a good time on the whole. But before
32:02
Speaker 1: we get to that exciting pre-announcement announcement, our new tour
32:05
Speaker 1: dates for Pod Save America are about to be announced.
32:09
Speaker 1: Pre-sale tickets are only available through Friends of the Pod.
32:12
Speaker 1: So sign up now to snag the best seats. Go
32:14
Speaker 1: to crooked.com slash friends to join. If you haven't joined yet,
32:18
Speaker 1: please do it. Get in there. Join the community. Joining
32:33
Speaker 1: us now, he's the former governor of New Jersey and
32:35
Speaker 1: GOP presidential candidate and author of a newly released book,
32:38
Speaker 1: which I believe is called Reagan Good. Chris Christie. Welcome
32:42
Speaker 1: back to the pod.
32:44
Speaker 4: I was happy back. And it is not Reagan. Good
32:47
Speaker 4: is what would Reagan do?
32:49
Speaker 1: Oh, what would Reagan do?
32:50
Speaker 5: Sorry.
32:50
Speaker 4: I'm sorry.
32:51
Speaker 5: That's okay.
32:52
Speaker 1: So, and we'll get to it and I'm going to,
32:54
Speaker 1: I want to, I will ask you that question. So,
32:55
Speaker 1: so Laura Trump for co RNC chair, not the obvious choice,
32:59
Speaker 1: but she must've written quite a cover letter. Will the
33:03
Speaker 1: Republican party be safe with her at the helm?
33:08
Speaker 4: Well, I mean, she's not going to be at the helm.
33:10
Speaker 4: I mean, you know, her father-in-law will be at the
33:13
Speaker 4: helm and, and he and his political team will be
33:17
Speaker 4: telling her what to do and then she'll do it. So,
33:20
Speaker 4: you know, I don't, I think she's, you know, if
33:22
Speaker 4: you look up figurehead in the dictionary, a new digital
33:28
Speaker 4: copy would probably have her picture next to it.
33:33
Speaker 1: Does it matter who's in charge of the Republican National
33:35
Speaker 1: Committee under Trump, or is this just kind of proof
33:39
Speaker 1: point of how much he's taken over the party.
33:43
Speaker 4: It's a proof point of how much he's taken over
33:45
Speaker 4: the party. I mean, when you can install your daughter-in-law
33:48
Speaker 4: as the co-chair of the Republican National Committee, I would
33:52
Speaker 4: say you pretty much have taken control.
33:55
Speaker 1: So speaking of Republicans bowing to Trump, you were critical
33:58
Speaker 1: of Trump's NATO comments. John Bolton put out a statement
34:00
Speaker 1: saying to Republicans who have said something like, this is
34:03
Speaker 1: just Trump talking like Trump, that he was in the
34:06
Speaker 1: room When Trump damn near withdrew from NATO, Marco Rubio, meanwhile,
34:10
Speaker 1: said he has zero concerns after Trump told a story
34:12
Speaker 1: encouraging Russia to do whatever the hell it wants to
34:14
Speaker 1: America's NATO allies. Does Rubio understand that president and vice
34:19
Speaker 1: president both can't come from Florida?
34:22
Speaker 4: Yes, he does understand that. But look, this is typical
34:26
Speaker 4: of what everybody on the Hill, just about everybody on
34:30
Speaker 4: the Hill is doing, which is, as Trump himself said
34:34
Speaker 4: in talking about Tom Emmer, They all bend the knee.
34:38
Speaker 4: And that's what Marco Rubio is doing. Look, I know
34:40
Speaker 4: Marco and Marco is much smarter than that comment. And
34:46
Speaker 4: it is just him being compliant.
34:49
Speaker 1: Why go on television? Why drive from your house to
34:53
Speaker 1: a studio on an issue that Marco Rubio used to
34:55
Speaker 1: care about, right? Which was America's national security, American foreign policy.
34:58
Speaker 1: It was something that he talked about a lot as
35:01
Speaker 1: one of the reasons he should be president of the
35:02
Speaker 1: United States. Why drive across town To say something you
35:06
Speaker 1: don't believe on behalf of Donald Trump, why not just
35:07
Speaker 1: stay home on Sunday?
35:09
Speaker 4: Mystery to me. I have to tell you the truth.
35:12
Speaker 4: I see what some of these guys are doing and
35:14
Speaker 4: saying right now. And I will tell you this. The
35:17
Speaker 4: only thing that keeps me feeling even slightly okay is
35:22
Speaker 4: that they're all going to own it when this is over.
35:25
Speaker 4: And this is going to be over sometime soon. It'll
35:28
Speaker 4: either be over in November when Donald Trump loses the
35:32
Speaker 4: general election. Or it'll be over in four years. But
35:35
Speaker 4: one way or the other, it's going to be over.
35:38
Speaker 4: And all of these things that people like Marco and
35:41
Speaker 4: Ted and at least Stefanik and all these others are
35:45
Speaker 4: out there saying, they're going to have to own it.
35:48
Speaker 4: And it's going to be, I think, a very, very
35:52
Speaker 4: rude awakening for all of them when people get out
35:55
Speaker 4: of the spell that they're under with Trump and realize
35:59
Speaker 4: what these folks were willing to sacrifice for their own
36:01
Speaker 4: personal ambitions.
36:04
Speaker 1: So one Republican still taking on Trump in the primary
36:06
Speaker 1: is Nikki Haley. You were caught on a hot mic
36:09
Speaker 1: when you were withdrawing from the race saying she'd get smoked.
36:12
Speaker 1: Have you talked to her since? And are you at
36:15
Speaker 1: all surprised by how much she's sharpened her message since then?
36:19
Speaker 1: It does seem that something changed. She doesn't sound like
36:23
Speaker 1: someone who's on their way to endorsing Trump at least
36:25
Speaker 1: as much as she used to.
36:28
Speaker 4: The only reason I think she did it is because
36:30
Speaker 4: it became personal. She got sharp when Trump was personal
36:35
Speaker 4: about her husband, and it shouldn't have to take that
36:40
Speaker 4: for you to take on Donald Trump. But that being said,
36:44
Speaker 4: the spending numbers through the end of January just came
36:48
Speaker 4: out in the past day or two. Nikki Haley's Super
36:53
Speaker 4: PAC has spent a total, and they've spent over.
36:58
Speaker 2: $ 130 million.
36:58
Speaker 4: They've spent a total of, of $ 2 million on ads
37:04
Speaker 4: that attacked or criticized Donald Trump. So what I'd urge
37:09
Speaker 4: you and the people who are listening to this is
37:11
Speaker 4: don't give Nikki Haley credit because once he starts personally
37:14
Speaker 4: picking on her husband, she starts to get a little
37:17
Speaker 4: sharper at him. You judge people in politics by where
37:20
Speaker 4: they spend their money.
37:22
Speaker 5: And how about this?
37:24
Speaker 4: My super PAC, which has been shut down now for
37:27
Speaker 4: over a month, has still spent a million dollars more
37:31
Speaker 4: on negative ads against Donald Trump that Nikki Haley's has
37:33
Speaker 4: to date. And I had an eighth of the money
37:35
Speaker 4: that she has.
37:37
Speaker 1: So then what's she doing? What's she running around running
37:40
Speaker 1: this campaign for? What's the goal? If the ads aren't
37:43
Speaker 1: going after Trump, if you don't think it's going to work,
37:45
Speaker 1: what's the point?
37:47
Speaker 4: 2028. And I said that during the campaign. There's no
37:51
Speaker 4: way to explain that Ron DeSantis and Nikki Haley spent
37:55
Speaker 4: a combined $ 48 million attacking each other. and that small
38:01
Speaker 4: amount of pittance, a couple million bucks attacking Donald Trump,
38:05
Speaker 4: except that they were trying to set each other up,
38:07
Speaker 4: themselves up, for 2028, and they didn't care about 2024.
38:10
Speaker 4: And if lightning struck and something happened to Trump and
38:13
Speaker 4: they happened to get it this time, that would have
38:15
Speaker 4: been fine by them. But if it didn't, they're trying
38:17
Speaker 4: to set themselves up for next time.
38:20
Speaker 1: So speaking of what could potentially happen to Trump on
38:23
Speaker 1: the legal front, Trump's lawyers are trying to delay his
38:26
Speaker 1: various criminal proceedings. In a filing to the Supreme Court,
38:30
Speaker 1: His lawyer said that a criminal trial would radically disrupt
38:32
Speaker 1: his ability to campaign. Jack Smith has till Tuesday to respond.
38:35
Speaker 1: At the same time, if the Supreme Court drags its
38:38
Speaker 1: feet on the immunity appeal, which I'm actually curious what
38:41
Speaker 1: you think of this immunity appeal, but most think that
38:43
Speaker 1: it's sort of basically frivolous, but they still have the
38:46
Speaker 1: ability to slow things down to push a trial until
38:50
Speaker 1: after November. Are you concerned about that? Do you want
38:53
Speaker 1: to make sure voters have a verdict on whether or
38:56
Speaker 1: not their presidential candidate is a convicted federal felon before
39:01
Speaker 1: casting a ballot?
39:02
Speaker 4: Well, first off, I'm not concerned that the Supreme Court
39:04
Speaker 4: will delay it. I mean, they acted very quickly on
39:07
Speaker 4: the ballot question. They didn't delay that. I think they'll
39:10
Speaker 4: act quickly on this too, and I don't believe that
39:12
Speaker 4: they'll take it because I think that the circuit decision
39:15
Speaker 4: is pretty airtight. I think it makes sense legally and logically.
39:21
Speaker 4: And the Supreme Court doesn't take circuit cases where they
39:24
Speaker 4: agree with the opinion and there's no conflict in any
39:27
Speaker 4: of the other circuits across the country.
39:29
Speaker 5: So I happen to think they're not going to take
39:31
Speaker 5: the case.
39:31
Speaker 4: And I think that in the end, that'll mean Trump
39:34
Speaker 4: will probably wind up being on trial sometime in May
39:38
Speaker 4: of this year.
39:41
Speaker 1: According to, I want to just sort of look outside
39:43
Speaker 1: of Trump for a second. According to Monmouth, a poll
39:45
Speaker 1: that was out today, Nearly one in five Americans believe
39:48
Speaker 1: Taylor Swift is part of a covert government effort to
39:50
Speaker 1: reelect Joe Biden. Now you've already spoken about this, but
39:52
Speaker 1: this is what I thought was interesting that came out today.
39:54
Speaker 1: Among that group, 83% are likely to vote for Trump
39:58
Speaker 1: and nearly three quarters believe Biden won 2020 by fraud.
40:03
Speaker 1: Like obviously Trump exacerbates a conspiratorial mindset among some Republicans,
40:09
Speaker 1: but he also reflects it. He reflects a conspiratorial mindset
40:12
Speaker 1: that was there before he came along. How are you
40:18
Speaker 1: going to get the Republican Party to change if they
40:20
Speaker 1: still have these tinfoil hats on? How do you get
40:22
Speaker 1: them to take the tinfoil hats off?
40:24
Speaker 4: Well, I'd say, look, I'd do more than say he
40:26
Speaker 4: reflects it. He not only induces it, he gives it oxygen.
40:32
Speaker 4: Every day he gives it oxygen. And he wants to
40:34
Speaker 4: because he knows that that's part of his base. Now,
40:38
Speaker 4: when you think about that, the people who are convinced
40:41
Speaker 4: that the election was stolen and that the ridiculous Taylor
40:46
Speaker 4: Swift stuff. You know, these are people who I think
40:50
Speaker 4: fall into three categories. Category number one is people who really,
40:55
Speaker 4: really believe this stuff. I think that's the smallest of
40:58
Speaker 4: the cohorts. Then there's a group that really despises Joe
41:04
Speaker 4: Biden and his policies, and they want to believe the
41:08
Speaker 4: election was stolen. That's probably the largest of the cohort.
41:13
Speaker 4: And then the third piece, are the people who say, look,
41:17
Speaker 4: I know Trump's nuts, and I know that this doesn't
41:21
Speaker 4: make any sense, but I'm going to stick with him
41:24
Speaker 4: and support him in all these things because I really
41:28
Speaker 4: don't want the Democratic Party completely in charge. And I
41:31
Speaker 4: say that's the second largest cohort. And they justify everything
41:35
Speaker 4: that way by saying, well, I agree more with his policies,
41:38
Speaker 4: even though he's somebody who wanted to take the Constitution
41:43
Speaker 4: away and burn it. And they're willing to walk away
41:47
Speaker 4: from that because they like his policy on taxes better.
41:50
Speaker 4: You know, to me, as important as taxes are, they're
41:56
Speaker 4: not more important than the Constitution.
41:59
Speaker 1: So I know you've said, I mean, that actually I
42:02
Speaker 1: think goes to sort of this larger question. You know,
42:05
Speaker 1: you've said you won't vote for Trump and you said
42:07
Speaker 1: you're not prepared to vote for Joe Biden or you
42:10
Speaker 1: can't see yourself voting for Joe Biden because you have
42:12
Speaker 1: a lot of disagreements. You have concerns about his age.
42:16
Speaker 1: Your book is called What Would Reagan Do? Do you
42:20
Speaker 1: see more of a through line between Reagan's optimistic message
42:25
Speaker 1: and Joe Biden's message about America's fundamental decency than you
42:30
Speaker 1: do with Trump's message about how there's American carnage and
42:35
Speaker 1: America is corrupt, America is broken?
42:38
Speaker 5: Yeah, sure.
42:38
Speaker 4: Absolutely. Absolutely. I don't think Ronald Reagan would recognize the
42:42
Speaker 4: Republican Party as it stands right now. And worse than
42:46
Speaker 4: not recognize it, he stood up against it. Remember, back
42:51
Speaker 4: in the mid-60s, early to mid-60s, the John Birch Society,
42:55
Speaker 4: which was, as you know, greatly racist and anti-Semitic, was
43:00
Speaker 4: a big force in the Republican Party. And Reagan was
43:04
Speaker 4: one of two people who publicly stood up against it.
43:07
Speaker 4: It was Reagan and William Buckley. And I write about
43:09
Speaker 4: that in the book. So I think not only would
43:11
Speaker 4: Ronald Reagan not recognize this group and would have more
43:14
Speaker 4: in common from an aspirational perspective with Joe Biden, but
43:19
Speaker 4: I think Ronald Reagan would have been like me on
43:22
Speaker 4: the campaign trail. He would have been campaigning against this
43:25
Speaker 4: because there were certain principles he was unwilling to abandon.
43:29
Speaker 4: And I think protection of the view of America as
43:33
Speaker 4: a shining city on a hill and an example for
43:36
Speaker 4: the rest of the world is one of those things
43:39
Speaker 4: Reagan would not have given into.
43:42
Speaker 1: So I'm not going to push you on the vote question,
43:45
Speaker 1: although you'll blink twice if you're waiting for the convention.
43:51
Speaker 1: But just because you're not willing, you have frustrations that
43:54
Speaker 1: a lot of voters have by this choice, by the way.
43:57
Speaker 1: That doesn't mean you don't have a preference. It doesn't
43:58
Speaker 1: mean you think the choice doesn't matter. Do you believe
44:01
Speaker 1: that the choice between Joe Biden and Donald Trump matters?
44:05
Speaker 4: What I believe is that we don't know yet what
44:08
Speaker 4: the full choice will be. And I do think there
44:11
Speaker 4: will be put Bobby Kennedy Jr. aside, who I think
44:15
Speaker 4: is a joke and probably won't wind up on the
44:17
Speaker 4: ballot in most states. But I do think the no
44:21
Speaker 4: labels effort is a real effort. I think they will
44:24
Speaker 4: get on the ballot in most, if not all the states.
44:27
Speaker 4: So part of the reason why I'm not making a
44:29
Speaker 4: decision yet, other than my decision to definitively never vote
44:32
Speaker 4: for Trump, is they might nominate somebody who I'd prefer
44:37
Speaker 4: to Joe Biden. So for instance, if they nominated Joe Manchin,
44:43
Speaker 4: I would vote for Joe Manchin.
44:46
Speaker 1: Even if we are heading into an election in which
44:48
Speaker 1: polls are showing that that candidacy is not leading to
44:51
Speaker 1: a third party winning, but actually dividing the anti-Trump vote
44:55
Speaker 1: and potentially putting Trump back in the White House. I
44:57
Speaker 1: don't think that's what, I think you care too much
45:00
Speaker 1: about this. I think you don't want Trump to win.
45:02
Speaker 4: I don't want Trump to win. And I would certainly,
45:04
Speaker 4: that would be something I would evaluate as the time
45:07
Speaker 4: went on. I wouldn't be an early voter. I would
45:11
Speaker 4: go on election day. So I had all the information
45:13
Speaker 4: I could. But I'm just telling you, dispositionally, I think
45:19
Speaker 4: Joe Biden is not more qualified than Joe Manchin to
45:24
Speaker 4: be president of the United States in this term coming up.
45:28
Speaker 4: And so if it was somebody like Manchin, Larry Hogan's
45:32
Speaker 4: now decided to take himself out and run for the
45:34
Speaker 4: United States Senate. But if Larry had turned out to
45:38
Speaker 4: be the no labels candidate, I would have clearly voted
45:41
Speaker 4: for Larry Hogan, um, over, over Joe Biden or Donald Trump. So,
45:45
Speaker 4: but I understand what you're saying and I'm not an
45:47
Speaker 4: impractical person, but let's really dig in deep.
45:51
Speaker 2: Okay.
45:52
Speaker 4: Given the way our elections work, my vote in New
45:55
Speaker 4: Jersey is not going to matter a lick because Joe
45:58
Speaker 4: Biden's going to win New Jersey. Um, no matter what happens,
46:02
Speaker 4: I think, unless there were really strong third party candidate, um,
46:06
Speaker 4: that looked like they could win New Jersey, um, Otherwise,
46:09
Speaker 4: Donald Trump lost New Jersey to Biden, I think it
46:12
Speaker 4: was by 22 points four years ago. I can't see
46:15
Speaker 4: him doing any better this time. So as a practical
46:18
Speaker 4: matter too, I'm not using this as a way to
46:21
Speaker 4: get out of answering, but I'm just saying also, as
46:23
Speaker 4: I make this decision, I may decide come election day
46:29
Speaker 4: in November that it's more important for me to make
46:32
Speaker 4: a statement about how broken the two-party system is and
46:37
Speaker 4: how bad these two candidates are by voting for a
46:42
Speaker 4: Joe Manchin, for instance, because it won't matter in my
46:46
Speaker 4: state anyway for the practical reason you just talked about.
46:50
Speaker 4: It's not a popular vote system. It's an electoral system, right?
46:53
Speaker 4: So that's probably deeper than any of us ever wanted
46:55
Speaker 4: to get into determining my vote, but I'm just telling
46:58
Speaker 4: you the way I would think about it.
47:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, obviously your vote in New Jersey, it's a
47:05
Speaker 1: moral victory, but But your vote matters insofar as I
47:09
Speaker 1: agree with you about the threat Donald Trump poses. And that,
47:12
Speaker 1: to me, means I want people of good conscience to
47:16
Speaker 1: stand up and say not just that I don't want
47:18
Speaker 1: to support Trump, but I actually think even though I
47:20
Speaker 1: have reservations, even though I have very big policy differences,
47:23
Speaker 1: as Liz Cheney said, the country can survive policy differences.
47:27
Speaker 1: Not sure it can survive four more years of Trump.
47:29
Speaker 1: But despite that, this moment requires me to do something
47:33
Speaker 1: I don't find particularly tasteful, but is necessary to save
47:36
Speaker 1: the country.
47:37
Speaker 4: And I'm not telling you that I won't. I'm just
47:39
Speaker 4: telling you I'm not there yet. You know, I mean,
47:41
Speaker 4: the only thing that I have decided firmly is that
47:44
Speaker 4: I will not vote for Trump under any circumstances. But
47:48
Speaker 4: the rest of it, I'm leaving open till I see
47:50
Speaker 4: what all my choices are and how the landscape plays out.
47:53
Speaker 4: Because as we know, I suspect this is going to
47:55
Speaker 4: take like three or four different twists and turns for
47:58
Speaker 4: both of these characters between now and November.
48:01
Speaker 5: So let's see how it plays out.
48:04
Speaker 1: I really appreciate it in your speech dropping out of
48:07
Speaker 1: the race. You talked a lot about how the decision
48:10
Speaker 1: stays with you, that it was stubborn.
48:13
Speaker 6: So for all the people who have been in this race,
48:16
Speaker 6: who have put their own personal ambition ahead of what's right,
48:22
Speaker 6: they will ultimately have to answer the same questions that
48:25
Speaker 6: I had to answer after my decision in 2016. Those
48:30
Speaker 6: questions don't ever leave.
48:33
Speaker 4: In fact, they're really stubborn.
48:35
Speaker 5: They stay.
48:37
Speaker 1: How does the stubbornness of your realization around your previous
48:45
Speaker 1: endorsement of Trump, how does it affect how you think
48:48
Speaker 1: about your role in this election?
48:51
Speaker 4: It makes me believe that I have to be as
48:54
Speaker 4: outspoken as I've already been and continue to be. But
48:57
Speaker 4: even though I'm no longer a candidate, that was not
49:00
Speaker 4: a surrender of my principles. It was a surrender to
49:03
Speaker 4: the reality of the primary. And so I intend to
49:07
Speaker 4: be just as vocal, just as active in pointing out
49:12
Speaker 4: to Republicans and independents all over this country why he
49:17
Speaker 4: is not a fit option to be president. And I
49:20
Speaker 4: feel like I have an obligation to do that because
49:24
Speaker 4: in my heart, I believe it to be true. And
49:27
Speaker 4: in my head, knowing him as well. And as long
49:30
Speaker 4: as I do, um, I know it's the truth.
49:34
Speaker 1: So, uh, before we let you go, um, Obviously, I
49:38
Speaker 1: presented you with the big hypothetical, but I just want
49:40
Speaker 1: to understand your mindset on a few other rapid fire
49:43
Speaker 1: hypotheticals on Biden versus Trump.
49:47
Speaker 5: Okay.
49:48
Speaker 1: Just to see where your head's at. Sure. Who would
49:49
Speaker 1: you trust to water your plants if you're out of town,
49:51
Speaker 1: Trump or Biden?
49:53
Speaker 4: Trump.
49:54
Speaker 1: Oh, come on. To water your plants? Your plants are
49:56
Speaker 1: fucking dead.
49:57
Speaker 4: I'm afraid Biden would forget.
49:59
Speaker 1: Oh, there. You know, I knew you were going to
50:01
Speaker 1: fucking do that. Who would you trust to peacefully transfer
50:04
Speaker 1: power between administrations? Biden. Who would you trust to watch
50:08
Speaker 1: your stuff at Starbucks when you went to the bathroom?
50:12
Speaker 5: They're both so bad. Come on. I would ask the
50:14
Speaker 5: barista to watch my stuff.
50:16
Speaker 2: All right.
50:16
Speaker 5: All right.
50:17
Speaker 1: And now look, this is a little Mormon, and I
50:19
Speaker 1: don't mean it to be glib, but I do just
50:21
Speaker 1: mean it about the men, which is who would you
50:25
Speaker 1: rather give a eulogy if you were to die?
50:31
Speaker 4: Biden, because I've known him for 40 years, and I
50:34
Speaker 4: think I can more honestly say the kind of things
50:37
Speaker 4: you'd like to say at someone's funeral about him than
50:40
Speaker 4: I could about Trump.
50:42
Speaker 1: Uh, final question. Uh, what are you doing for your
50:46
Speaker 1: wife for Valentine's day? And you can't be buying flowers
50:49
Speaker 1: on your way home because anyone married to you deserves
50:53
Speaker 1: so much more.
50:53
Speaker 4: Well, I'm already home. So I blew that.
50:56
Speaker 1: Oh, wow.
50:57
Speaker 4: Um, we, I have gotten her a card and written
51:01
Speaker 4: a note.
51:02
Speaker 5: Hold on now. Let me give the full answer.
51:04
Speaker 4: We made an agreement with each other this year at
51:08
Speaker 4: my wife's suggestion. She said, look, I don't know what
51:12
Speaker 4: I want to get you for Valentine's Day. I don't
51:16
Speaker 4: want to waste the time trying to figure it out.
51:19
Speaker 4: Can we please don't make me feel guilty, though, by
51:22
Speaker 4: going out and getting me something and then I'm going
51:24
Speaker 4: to have nothing for you. So let's not exchange gifts
51:27
Speaker 4: this Valentine's Day. And I'm going to stick with that.
51:31
Speaker 4: We're not going to exchange gifts. And by the way,
51:35
Speaker 4: we've been married for 38 years.
51:37
Speaker 1: What kind of?
51:38
Speaker 4: We've been together for 40. And so we've exchanged probably
51:41
Speaker 4: 37 or 38 Valentine's Day gifts. So when you get
51:46
Speaker 4: to this stage, it's a little bit different. But if
51:48
Speaker 4: you read my card.
51:49
Speaker 1: What a trap you fell in. What a trap.
51:52
Speaker 4: But look, if you read my card, it would bring
51:54
Speaker 4: tears to your eyes.
51:55
Speaker 5: Oh, it's beautiful. You'd weep.
51:58
Speaker 1: All right.
51:58
Speaker 2: You'd weep.
51:59
Speaker 1: All right.
51:59
Speaker 2: All right.
52:00
Speaker 1: Uh, uh, the book is what would Reagan, the book
52:02
Speaker 1: is what would Reagan do? And apparently it's whatever you
52:05
Speaker 1: think you should do.
52:06
Speaker 4: Uh, and, uh, it is not, I know you're look,
52:10
Speaker 4: I am, I know you're not going to buy the book.
52:12
Speaker 1: So I'm not going to buy the book.
52:13
Speaker 2: I know you're not.
52:14
Speaker 4: So I am going to send you a signed copy
52:17
Speaker 4: of the book.
52:17
Speaker 1: Right. And I just want to know, we have a book,
52:19
Speaker 1: all right? And I'm just saying, if you're hearing this
52:21
Speaker 1: and you're even considering buying Chris Christie's book and you
52:24
Speaker 1: haven't bought our book first, you can go fuck yourself.
52:26
Speaker 5: Oh, well, look, why can't they buy both?
52:30
Speaker 1: Oh, now I feel this.
52:31
Speaker 5: Now I feel dirty.
52:32
Speaker 4: The stock market is at an all-time high. People, you know,
52:38
Speaker 4: are doing a little bit better. Why can't they go
52:40
Speaker 4: by both books?
52:40
Speaker 5: Thanks to Joe Biden's leadership. Thanks to Joe Biden's leadership.
52:43
Speaker 1: The convention speech writes itself.
52:46
Speaker 5: I don't know about that.
52:47
Speaker 4: I might say it was because of the great work
52:49
Speaker 4: of the chairman of the Fed.
52:50
Speaker 1: Fucking get out of here. Governor Chris Christie, this sucks.
52:54
Speaker 5: You love this. You love this.
52:56
Speaker 1: Happy Valentine's Day to us both.
52:58
Speaker 5: To both of us. Absolutely. Feel the love.
53:06
Speaker 1: Adizu, thank you so much for being here. That was
53:07
Speaker 1: really great. Really appreciate it.
53:08
Speaker 2: My pleasure. Anytime. I'll be back when you ask me
53:10
Speaker 2: to come back.
53:11
Speaker 1: Fantastic.
53:13
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Speaker 7: if you're as opinionated as we are, consider dropping us
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Speaker 7: a review. Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production.
53:35
Speaker 7: Our show is produced by Olivia Martinez and David Toledo.
53:38
Speaker 7: Our associate producers are Saul Rubin and Farah Safari. Kira
53:41
Speaker 7: Wakeem is our senior producer. Reid Cherlin is our executive producer.
53:45
Speaker 7: The show is mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Jordan
53:48
Speaker 7: Cantor is our sound engineer with audio support from Kyle
53:51
Speaker 7: Seglin and Charlotte Landis. Writing support by Hallie Kiefer. Madeline
53:55
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53:58
Speaker 7: is our head of production. Andy Taft is our executive assistant.
54:01
Speaker 7: Thanks to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Haley Jones, Mia Kelman,
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Speaker 7: David Tolles, Kirill Pelleviv, and Molly Lobel.