Latest / The Two Authors’ Podcast / Recorded from the SPS London Conference

Transcript

Recorded from the SPS London Conference · The Two Authors’ Podcast

• 0:00
  It's much nicer to have the rest of the herd around you going off the cliff
• 0:04
  instead of plummeting on your own.
• 0:08
  Welcome to the Two Authors podcast, an entertaining chat show
• 0:12
  hosted by best-selling mystery and thriller authors Douglas Pratt and Nicholas Harvey
• 0:17
  in lively, humorous and informative conversation with distinguished guests
• 0:22
  who share their thoughts and experience about forging a successful author career.
• 0:27
  [MUSIC]
• 0:30
  >> Hello everyone and welcome to the two authors podcast.
• 0:34
  >> On the road.
• 0:34
  >> On the road.
• 0:36
  >> I guess we didn't take a road, we flew our asses over here so.
• 0:40
  >> We flew a long way, so what is amazing,
• 0:42
  which you can't see at the moment is we're looking out a window at the house of
• 0:46
  parliament and the tents.
• 0:47
  >> Yes, look kids, big bin, big bin.
• 0:51
  >> Exactly.
• 0:52
  >> So we're going to say that since I've been here.
• 0:54
  - I want to drive by and go, hey, look, kids,
• 0:56
  Big Ben, Parliament, so.
• 0:58
  - Brilliant, all right, we're at SPS London.
• 1:00
  It's just getting, we're in the first morning,
• 1:02
  it's just getting wound up.
• 1:03
  We've been to a few things, vendors are here.
• 1:06
  What's your impression so far?
• 1:07
  - Oh my God, well, one, it's like a whirlwind.
• 1:10
  Like, it is in, it is, this has been so energetic.
• 1:14
  We got 500 people here, it doesn't feel like it.
• 1:17
  - It doesn't feel like 500, but it's intimate.
• 1:20
  They've got big rooms, but they're,
• 1:22
  It's a long room to give you an idea of the layout.
• 1:25
  And the main presentation room is a long room with a podium in the center.
• 1:29
  So the people are quite spread out and there's an announcement in the background that will.
• 1:34
  Right. If you guys get it, they're just telling us it's time to eat.
• 1:37
  So get your asses to the buffet.
• 1:39
  So we're not lying.
• 1:40
  We're actually at a conference.
• 1:41
  Either that or Tesco's.
• 1:43
  Tesco's.
• 1:44
  Discount on milk on aisle three.
• 1:46
  So it's been super energetic.
• 1:48
  Absolutely.
• 1:49
  That's the first thing I've noticed.
• 1:50
  And it's a different vibe, different feel from other conferences that we've been to.
• 1:55
  And that's not to say it's better or worse, it's just different, but it is big energy.
• 1:59
  It's a lot of energy.
• 2:00
  I mean, when I started out this morning with our first talk this morning was done by Tom
• 2:04
  Donnelly and he is a very energetic, exciting talk.
• 2:07
  He's a sleeper.
• 2:08
  Yeah, he's something.
• 2:10
  He's kind of full of it.
• 2:11
  So, no, it was a great talk.
• 2:13
  So far, the talks have been amazing.
• 2:15
  It's going to be, I'm already sensing like I'm feeling like I'm getting drenched with
• 2:20
  a fire hose with information.
• 2:21
  Over a while already, yeah.
• 2:22
  Just because there's so many really smart people here who know different things that
• 2:26
  we don't know and we've had lots of just conversations in the hallways out here around the food
• 2:33
  with a lot of readers and writers that are out there that we've not had a chance to meet.
• 2:37
  So this has been fun for me.
• 2:38
  The vendors really have time too.
• 2:40
  The way it's set up is the vendors all morning they're set up at their tables and this is
• 2:44
  going to continue throughout the show. So in the moments of breaks and stuff you go
• 2:48
  oh I haven't talked to Bookbub yet or I haven't gone over and seen Joe and Susie
• 2:52
  Sillara's organization. Or Valom. Don't forget we've got our good buddy Brad.
• 2:56
  Brad is here from Valom of course and this show as always is brought to you by
• 3:00
  the fabulous Valom and what we got to do this morning was surprise Brad because
• 3:05
  believe it or not he wasn't current we're listening to the show. I know. We forgive him
• 3:09
  he's a busy man so we got to play the song for him the Valom song and he got
• 3:14
  it for the first time and let's just say the look on his face was priceless.
• 3:18
  They did say a lot and I would like to say it was he said it was impressed but I think
• 3:23
  he was just being polite to us.
• 3:25
  His first words were do we actually have a contract?
• 3:29
  But I think he's going to grow to love it.
• 3:32
  I think it is.
• 3:32
  It was a lot of fun.
• 3:33
  We've had a lot of people actually talk about it to us at this conference.
• 3:36
  We have and we get asked a lot about Velum and obviously they sponsor the show but the
• 3:41
  The reason they sponsored the show, if we haven't made this clear in the past, is they
• 3:45
  were the very first people, entity we approached about sponsoring the show because we made
• 3:50
  a list and we said, "Okay, who are the companies that we would like to be associated with because
• 3:56
  we truly believe in those companies?"
• 3:58
  We use their services.
• 3:59
  We want to make sure that we're not going to hock something that we don't believe in.
• 4:04
  That's one of the things that we're pretty big about.
• 4:06
  We've talked about this in depth.
• 4:08
  And vellum is just a fabulous product.
• 4:11
  We could go on and on as we often do, but it's a great product and such a great...
• 4:16
  But it's just been an amazing show here anyway.
• 4:20
  Yeah, brilliant.
• 4:20
  And their table's plenty busy over there.
• 4:22
  So we're going to get back to you when we've experienced a bit more of the show.
• 4:25
  We're going to have a few guests on.
• 4:26
  We'll make sure James Platt, who runs the show, will talk to him a little bit later.
• 4:31
  And that's all coming up soon.
• 4:32
  Yes, look forward to it.
• 4:33
  (upbeat music)
• 4:37
  - All right, here we are at SPS London
• 4:39
  with our good friend, Joe Solari, who runs Authentication.
• 4:43
  Joe, what are you doing here?
• 4:44
  This is the SPS London Conference,
• 4:46
  and yet you're here representing your conference.
• 4:49
  - Well, yeah, so this year is our second year here.
• 4:53
  We have been friends with James for a long time,
• 4:58
  and we wanna see his show be successful,
• 5:01
  So we support him here by coming as a sponsor,
• 5:04
  just like he comes to our show and he acts as an MC
• 5:08
  and a spoken, so I think it's,
• 5:10
  you know, it's kind of endemic of the whole industry
• 5:13
  of how we try and support each other, right?
• 5:16
  It's like we're not in competition,
• 5:19
  we're here exploring where we can all collectively
• 5:22
  take the industry and be successful together.
• 5:25
  - And that is one of the great things about this industry,
• 5:27
  think is that we are such a supportive clan. Like I always feel like this is
• 5:33
  this is my posse. I said posse. It's a clarifier. You're in London, Doug. Yeah,
• 5:40
  we're talking about being in London when we're looking out the window here at the
• 5:43
  Big Bend and Parliament. Yeah, yeah, it's pretty crazy. You know, it's funny
• 5:48
  because like I remember way back in the day listening to the SPS show and being
• 5:57
  "Wow, like James."
• 5:59
  Actually, this is a funny story
• 6:01
  because it was James interviewing John Logstead.
• 6:05
  You know John, right?
• 6:06
  And I thought, "Wow, these two guys sound so smart
• 6:10
  and they know so much.
• 6:12
  I hope someday to meet them."
• 6:14
  And unfortunately, I have.
• 6:17
  - I don't think anybody ever says that about us, though, Nick.
• 6:20
  No one's ever gone, "Man, these two guys."
• 6:22
  - Same category.
• 6:24
  - Never meet your idols, right?
• 6:26
  (laughing)
• 6:26
  It's like, you know, it's great to be now
• 6:29
  not just like learning from them
• 6:32
  but being collaborative with them and like,
• 6:34
  "Hey, where can we bring our strengths together
• 6:36
  to take this industry where it can go?"
• 6:38
  Because I think there's, you know,
• 6:40
  here or at our show, Nink is another great show.
• 6:44
  People are really bringing to the front
• 6:48
  what the problems are that they're facing, right?
• 6:50
  Whether specifically in their business
• 6:52
  or what they think is going on in the industry.
• 6:55
  and sometimes it's just like talking about a problem
• 6:57
  cuts the problem in half, right?
• 6:59
  It's just like, oh yeah, I'm kind of worried about that too.
• 7:02
  And it's like, should we be worried about that?
• 7:05
  Right?
• 7:05
  And a lot of times, no, it's like,
• 7:07
  just get back to your knitting, right?
• 7:09
  Just go back to writing those books,
• 7:11
  go back to loving on your customers,
• 7:14
  and the business will sort itself out.
• 7:16
  - And I'm just out of curiosity,
• 7:17
  like I'm sure that you come back from this
• 7:19
  and look at as you're preparing for Author Nation in November,
• 7:23
  you know, what do you take away from here to carry to this one or maybe even next year's program that you guys are
• 7:29
  I'm sure knowing James and you guys are pretty tight that you're probably communicating on a regular basis
• 7:34
  So what's working and what's not for conferences?
• 7:37
  Yeah, I so I think that don't forget like James is kind of the forefront but like Catherine is like the one that's running the
• 7:43
  operation so I was just talking to her and we talk about you know
• 7:48
  some of her best practices so that we can pick those up and she does this you know, she's learning from us I
• 7:55
  Think that you know, it's a situation where this industry is moving so fast
• 8:02
  That like we're gonna learn stuff here. That's relevant today and you need to but like by the time November rolls around
• 8:11
  Well that didn't work anymore
• 8:13
  Literally like we already had it where we've had to go to speakers and say or the speakers have come to us and said hey
• 8:20
  What I pitched you that you've accepted that doesn't work that way anymore
• 8:23
  They just like there's this new feature or this new way of doing things. It's like we understand so I think that's part of
• 8:31
  us is like helping
• 8:33
  Each other think through like what is it that the industry needs to be staying on top of and what is
• 8:42
  Distracting right because like with AI there's there's a lot of noise about like oh what people are doing with AI
• 8:49
  but you can also be equally
• 8:50
  distracted by like trying to keep on pace with it and
• 8:55
  You don't necessarily need to do that right you could speak you can be really really distracted by the whole idea of like oh
• 9:03
  I need it like this new version of chat GPT came out. How can I use it?
• 9:08
  Well, is it making you money? Is it making your books better?
• 9:12
  Is it making your marketing better? Is it making customers easier to find you?
• 9:16
  No on all fronts that will then it's a distraction. Yeah, don't worry about it
• 9:20
  Don't I would say the other thing is like you said as fast as things are changing
• 9:23
  That's the importance of a conference now in June and another conference in November and you know
• 9:29
  Nink is in September and you may have one in April these things change so fast that these conferences are opportunities for us as
• 9:36
  as authors to keep up with what is happening.
• 9:39
  And also, kind of like you said, we also find out
• 9:42
  we're not alone in some of these issues that we,
• 9:45
  'cause we often tend to wallow around
• 9:47
  in our little offices and go,
• 9:50
  oh, why isn't this working?
• 9:51
  - And it looks-- - It's much nicer
• 9:52
  to have the rest of the herd around you
• 9:54
  going off the cliff. (laughing)
• 9:55
  Instead of plummeting on your own.
• 9:57
  - Yeah, yeah, it's nice when you're drowning in a group,
• 10:00
  right?
• 10:01
  I was talking with Siobhan and Jade,
• 10:04
  the Irish Conference and I was sharing some of the things that were complete flops.
• 10:11
  Right?
• 10:11
  Like, so one of our big focuses and what we kind of see as a differentiator is what we're
• 10:16
  doing with Reader Nation.
• 10:18
  The first year I had this grand idea that we were going to be about high-end VIP and
• 10:24
  we went out from the gate with a $200 ticket and nobody bought it.
• 10:30
  We pivoted in the second year and went to a free and an upsell and now like this last year
• 10:37
  We're at 210 VIP tickets all it's important for us to share like hey like this is my scar tissue. This is what I'm
• 10:46
  Learning as I grow this business not just to other conference holders
• 10:51
  But to you guys as authors is like sometimes you're gonna try marketing something and it's gonna flop right all the time actually
• 11:00
  Just today is probably happened three times. So yeah, yeah, well, it's you know, like I was talking with Orianna Lekert from
• 11:08
  Kickstarter about some of the stuff we're doing around Kickstarter and and it's a way that we can kind of help each other
• 11:15
  Collaborate whether it's through our anthologies or this graphic novel project. We're doing but like
• 11:23
  I'm just like you guys when we're running these things. It's like sometimes the marketing. I think I'm brilliant and then the next day
• 11:29
  it's like what happened and it's like you got to just be realistic about sometimes
• 11:34
  there's things that are out of your control and you just got to roll with it.
• 11:37
  You need a Nick to come tell you you're not brilliant. He tells me all the time
• 11:40
  that's not the smartest way to do things. It's an important part of the feedback
• 11:44
  of the learning dog. Oh I see I feel it. I feel the importance of it and it
• 11:48
  helps but yeah I do think and we've we've often preached about how great
• 11:52
  conferences are anyway because it's a great not just a chance to be with your
• 11:56
  to try but to learn everything and just like you're learning here for conferences, we learn
• 12:01
  for authors what's working and what doesn't.
• 12:04
  I encourage everybody who hasn't gone and booked for Author Nation to get your ass in
• 12:09
  line and get it, right?
• 12:10
  Well, I think that, I don't know if intangible is the right word, but like there's something
• 12:16
  that happens when you're with authors and you're in that network, right?
• 12:21
  Even if you're just standing there listening to other authors talk, you're starting to
• 12:26
  something out of those relationships. But if you do, and like I know I remember
• 12:31
  listening to your podcast a couple weeks ago, and you're like, "Hey, just come up
• 12:35
  to me and I'll introduce you to people." Right? And I think that... I may not know
• 12:39
  them, but we'll go talk to them together. Right, right. But I think that that's the
• 12:43
  kind of thing where it's like, I've done that with people. It's like, when I'm
• 12:47
  listening to somebody tell me about what they write or what they do, I'm thinking
• 12:50
  about like, "Who should I introduce you to?" Because I know from my own business
• 12:57
  those connections, they may happen over decades, right?
• 13:02
  But when they happen, like values create it.
• 13:04
  - Oh, for sure, yeah.
• 13:05
  And it's quickly, it deepens so quickly
• 13:08
  in this field, I think.
• 13:10
  - Yeah, yeah, and I think that it's like,
• 13:12
  people ask me, why did we take on author nation
• 13:15
  and do that?
• 13:16
  And it's because I saw what was happening at conferences
• 13:20
  and people figuring stuff out together, right?
• 13:24
  And sometimes it wasn't like,
• 13:26
  it wasn't a puzzle to be unlocked.
• 13:28
  It was like, hey, I've always thought about maybe
• 13:31
  writing books about this.
• 13:33
  And now I've never said, I've been thinking the same thing.
• 13:35
  It's like, well, why don't we try it as a co-write?
• 13:37
  And then like, next thing, a new genre exists.
• 13:40
  It's really cool.
• 13:42
  And I haven't been part of an industry where
• 13:46
  you've been able to see creativity manifest
• 13:49
  so quickly, so well.
• 13:51
  I think that's the key word is we're creatives, right?
• 13:55
  You've got this 500 odd people here of creatives.
• 13:58
  The vendors are creative.
• 13:59
  They've created these things.
• 14:01
  We're creating books.
• 14:02
  That's a hive mind is amazing.
• 14:05
  - But Nick, I don't want to write that erotic
• 14:07
  leprechauns in space that you want to write.
• 14:10
  But Jonah, 'cause he wants to read it.
• 14:13
  - Yeah, yeah.
• 14:15
  Well, that's it too, right?
• 14:16
  You know, I love that idea about like,
• 14:19
  you think about some of the vendors that are here,
• 14:24
  how they got started solving an author problem, right?
• 14:28
  They made the whole industry exponentially better
• 14:31
  because they're like, well, you know,
• 14:33
  might not be the greatest writer,
• 14:35
  but like I can solve that problem.
• 14:36
  And then they make it possible for everybody
• 14:40
  in the industry to do better, you know?
• 14:43
  And I would, for, for Susan and I to go around,
• 14:48
  what's great about coming to an event like this is,
• 14:50
  it gives, and this is why we came back this year,
• 14:53
  is we get to hang out with the vendors.
• 14:56
  We're not the host, right?
• 14:57
  It's not our wedding, it's somebody else's,
• 14:59
  so we get to drink, right?
• 15:02
  It's still just us draining, right?
• 15:04
  It's like, I'm already like,
• 15:05
  how am I gonna make it to the boat tonight?
• 15:07
  Gotta keep the energy up.
• 15:09
  Because I love hanging out and talking and collaborating.
• 15:14
  I mean, I had some conversations with specific authors
• 15:17
  about their business and am I like,
• 15:18
  hey, have you thought about this?
• 15:20
  And they're like, no, I haven't.
• 15:21
  That's really cool.
• 15:22
  And I'm like, that's me doing my job.
• 15:25
  - Well, you know, they do have an espresso machine here
• 15:27
  if you need to make it, which is pretty awesome.
• 15:29
  - I've been working that thing like a rented mule.
• 15:31
  Dude, it is.
• 15:33
  - The next year we'll see one right.
• 15:34
  We're all in into Author Nation with a new espresso.
• 15:36
  - The little LED already came up with no more neck.
• 15:40
  It's set on that.
• 15:40
  Hey, look, it's great to see you.
• 15:42
  It's even better to see Suze here, of course.
• 15:44
  And we can't wait to see you in November.
• 15:46
  It's going to be good.
• 15:47
  I'm super excited.
• 15:49
  - Awesome.
• 15:49
  It's great being on the podcast
• 15:51
  and love what you guys are doing.
• 15:53
  We'll see you in November.
• 15:54
  - All right, thanks, sir.
• 15:55
  - Appreciate it.
• 15:55
  Thank you, Joe.
• 15:56
  (upbeat music)
• 15:58
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• 16:00
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  - And back to the show.
• 16:29
  - Beccas, I'm always lovely to see you at any event.
• 16:32
  - Yes.
• 16:33
  - And welcome to London.
• 16:34
  - Thank you.
• 16:35
  - How you did a talk yesterday.
• 16:36
  You're gonna do another talk today.
• 16:38
  How's it going?
• 16:39
  - It's going great.
• 16:40
  It is a very lively experience to be here.
• 16:44
  There's a lot of people here and it's a lot of fun to see all the authors in one place.
• 16:48
  It's good vibe.
• 16:49
  Yeah, it's really nice.
• 16:51
  A lot of what we've talked with James and Joe about earlier is just kind of what you
• 16:55
  get, the value you're getting out of the conferences.
• 16:58
  And so what do you think is something that, you know, some of our listeners would think,
• 17:02
  "Oh, this is, should I go to a conference or not?
• 17:05
  What's the value in that?"
• 17:06
  Yeah, there's so much about our career that is isolating and this is the opposite of that.
• 17:13
  And I think if all you ever do is just consume things online and you are isolated in your
• 17:19
  house with yourself all the time, you lose a lot of perspective that the community brings.
• 17:25
  And I think there's some benefit to being confronted by like if people are not coming
• 17:31
  because they're introverted.
• 17:33
  It's like, well, there's ways to be introverted at conferences and there are ways to handle
• 17:38
  overwhelming conferences, just the community alone, but then in addition, having all the
• 17:43
  vendors here, like being able to physically speak to someone at Book Funnel or at Book
• 17:48
  Bub or talk to me or talk to you guys, like you're not going to meet us in person anywhere
• 17:54
  other than these conferences.
• 17:56
  Right.
• 17:56
  You talked about the energy here, something we've talked about a lot.
• 17:59
  There's a real buzz, but as you mentioned, introverts might find that intimidating, but
• 18:04
  there's plenty of space.
• 18:06
  We found people off in a corner, there's great places to go, kind of unwind and push that
• 18:11
  aside.
• 18:12
  Yeah, we're in one of the corners, right?
• 18:14
  We're in a place where there's basically no people, we're kind of by ourselves.
• 18:18
  So there are still places, and I have a feeling that more conferences are also going to start
• 18:23
  making introvert friendly spaces.
• 18:25
  It's one of the things that we suggest to all the big conferences is to say, you have
• 18:29
  a lot of introverted authors who are not coming because they will not function as well when
• 18:35
  and they're forced to be in these loud spaces all the time,
• 18:38
  but it's really easy to combat that by having a quiet room
• 18:41
  and so more conferences are doing that kind of thing.
• 18:44
  But even if it isn't present,
• 18:46
  it's still worth facing a little bit of overwhelm
• 18:50
  and not letting the fear keep you away from the opportunity.
• 18:53
  - Yeah, and another thing I wanna talk to you about
• 18:55
  is the industry's tough right now.
• 18:57
  There's a lot of things going against us
• 19:00
  in many ways in the industry.
• 19:02
  And I know you've put out a lot of great content
• 19:04
  on helping people find their way past that.
• 19:08
  One thing that I've really noticed coming here
• 19:10
  is just to be surrounded with other authors and go,
• 19:13
  yeah, these things are tough right now,
• 19:15
  but I already after one day of this,
• 19:18
  I feel far more positive the fact that you're sharing
• 19:21
  that issue, talk about that a little bit.
• 19:22
  - Yeah, there's something about being in it together.
• 19:25
  I think there is an element of like,
• 19:27
  when you're suffering alone and you feel worse about it
• 19:31
  than you do when you know other people
• 19:32
  are going through the same thing.
• 19:34
  The other thing is when you have the community around you,
• 19:37
  they can help you remember why you do these things.
• 19:40
  Like I went to just a plug for SPS London, right?
• 19:44
  I went to Westminster, the Abbey the other day,
• 19:48
  where all of like T.S. Eliot and Shakespeare are buried, right?
• 19:51
  So I'm like walking around sort of really emotional,
• 19:55
  reminding myself about why I do this.
• 19:57
  Because the thing that I can't have at home,
• 20:01
  that I can't get are those unexpected moments of inspiration
• 20:05
  and reminders about what it is that I want to write for.
• 20:09
  And it's fed me in a way that I don't think
• 20:12
  I could get anywhere else.
• 20:14
  - Yeah, it does have a very, London is a great literary town.
• 20:17
  - Literary city, amazing.
• 20:18
  - I mean, I walk around, you said T.S. Eliot,
• 20:20
  we found, my wife and I found where Virginia Woolf lived
• 20:24
  and we passed, you know, and the number of bookstores
• 20:26
  that I found myself lost.
• 20:27
  And say, if you're nothing else,
• 20:28
  you want to come hang out and check out the books
• 20:31
  We love books as authors, so.
• 20:33
  Yeah, it's amazing here.
• 20:35
  Of course, we spent a couple days in Oxford,
• 20:37
  so we went to, like, the Inklings places
• 20:40
  and saw where Tolkien is buried
• 20:42
  and saw Tolkien's house.
• 20:44
  I mean, there just is nothing quite like it,
• 20:46
  especially if you're American and you have not experienced
• 20:49
  the literary history of England before.
• 20:53
  This is a great way to get an opportunity.
• 20:55
  It was an hour train ride to Oxford from Paddington,
• 20:58
  so it was great.
• 20:59
  For anyone listening, if you haven't heard Becca speak at any of these events,
• 21:02
  I challenge you to come out of a room after hearing Becca speak and not feeling
• 21:06
  better about life, what you do, anything.
• 21:09
  So where are you?
• 21:11
  Where are you speaking here on out after SPS?
• 21:13
  So I'm speaking at Nink this year as well.
• 21:16
  I think you guys are also going to be there.
• 21:19
  Yeah.
• 21:19
  I'm going to author nation.
• 21:21
  I'll be at superstars in Colorado as well in February.
• 21:24
  I'm trying to hit all of the big conferences again, because I kind of took
• 21:28
  some time away from bigger conferences for a while,
• 21:31
  and I'm trying to hit all the big ones again.
• 21:32
  So I'll be almost everywhere next year.
• 21:36
  That is the larger conferences that you can hear me there.
• 21:39
  - Brilliant, we'll catch you there.
• 21:40
  Thanks so much for joining us.
• 21:42
  - Thank you for having me.
• 21:44
  - And now, a quick word from this episode sponsor.
• 21:47
  Hey, this is Jamie Davis,
• 21:49
  the show manager for Author Nation.
• 21:51
  Make sure you stop me and say hi
• 21:52
  if you come to us in Las Vegas this November.
• 21:56
  Also, why do space aliens always spill their tea?
• 22:00
  Because they use flying saucers.
• 22:03
  And now, back to the show.
• 22:06
  - James, we're at the end of these two days.
• 22:09
  I'm amazed you're still standing after all of this.
• 22:12
  - So am I.
• 22:13
  - How do you think it went?
• 22:14
  - So I think, I meant what I said,
• 22:17
  I saw Josh here on stage where I said,
• 22:18
  "Everyone's polite to me,
• 22:19
  "and everyone's feeling a buzz from being here."
• 22:21
  So it's been almost overwhelmingly positive.
• 22:24
  And things that have been negative
• 22:25
  I mean, small, fixable things for next year.
• 22:28
  But that doesn't mean it is definitely the right thing to do.
• 22:31
  It's a high-end way of doing a conference.
• 22:33
  We charge probably as much as Vegas do, maybe even more,
• 22:36
  per what you get.
• 22:37
  I think whilst people balked a little bit at the ticket price,
• 22:40
  we sold out anyway.
• 22:42
  I think they got here and they saw where the money is.
• 22:44
  The money is in the service, in the food, in the view,
• 22:46
  in the location, and the rest of it.
• 22:47
  So I think people now understand what it is they're saying
• 22:49
  yes or no to, and that's a decision we make.
• 22:52
  I have to make it quickly,
• 22:53
  'cause you have to book these places a year in advance.
• 22:55
  So in the next couple of weeks, we'll make a big decision
• 22:57
  whether we do this again or we find somewhere
• 22:59
  probably outside London and do it cheaply.
• 23:00
  But my preference is, I think particularly at the moment
• 23:04
  where this networking and being in person
• 23:07
  and drilling down in detail on subjects
• 23:08
  is more important than it's ever been
• 23:10
  as our industry gets turned upside down by AI,
• 23:12
  I think it's worth investing in this kind of couple of days.
• 23:14
  And that's the beaning I got,
• 23:16
  or at least the anecdotal feeling I got from people.
• 23:18
  - I would say I would agree with that
• 23:19
  because the conversations we've had
• 23:22
  through out here among the food,
• 23:24
  which by the way, some of the best food I've had.
• 23:27
  And I used to work in banquets and hotels,
• 23:29
  and I was like, I went back, told my wife,
• 23:31
  I said, man, they're feeding us like phenomenally.
• 23:34
  I was blown away by that.
• 23:34
  - Well, I didn't realize it's their thing.
• 23:36
  So, etc. Venue is a big global company.
• 23:38
  They have places in New York and Singapore,
• 23:41
  and Jen Barrett, who's the KDP UK person,
• 23:44
  her husband works in, is a chef,
• 23:46
  works all over London,
• 23:47
  works for all the big chef and companies.
• 23:49
  And he said to her the night before,
• 23:50
  oh, etc. Venue, you're gonna be well-fed.
• 23:52
  So they have a reputation,
• 23:53
  They have a kitchen here, they don't buy in or anything.
• 23:55
  So I hadn't realized quite how much of a thing it is,
• 23:58
  but the food was sensational.
• 23:59
  The curry's odd, like, can I have more?
• 24:00
  - I know, yeah, I'm just telling you,
• 24:02
  like having done banquets and stuff for about 10 years
• 24:05
  of my career pre-writing, I was blown away.
• 24:08
  But I-- - It's hard to feed
• 24:09
  a lot of people where it is, isn't it?
• 24:10
  It's fine to do it for a small, right?
• 24:13
  - But it was, yeah, I never went hungry,
• 24:15
  and you can tell, I don't usually go hungry, so it's okay.
• 24:17
  But overall, as we had these conversations, it is.
• 24:19
  This is such a big time of change for us,
• 24:22
  And as we talked about with Joe and a little bit with Becca earlier,
• 24:26
  there's the great things about these conferences that we get a chance to re-gauge
• 24:30
  where everybody is.
• 24:31
  And as we're all kind of worried about where it's going,
• 24:33
  we're also all together in this, you know, we're climbing this cliff together,
• 24:36
  about to jump off together or whatever we're going to do,
• 24:38
  but we're doing it together when you see where everybody else is going.
• 24:41
  And the energy here was amazing, I think.
• 24:43
  So I was blown away with it.
• 24:45
  So.
• 24:46
  Well, I'm pleased you said that.
• 24:47
  So I think it did feel in here very cohesive and it did feel like that.
• 24:50
  felt like we're navigating this uncertainty together. But out there in the forums and
• 24:55
  on Facebook and on Substack doesn't feel as cohesive as it used to. It feels quite angsty,
• 25:00
  feels confrontational and people talk in the way they do online that they wouldn't do in
• 25:07
  real life. So that's another reason for actually being in the room, talking about this stuff
• 25:11
  rather than posting your emotional reaction to a Substack post. So another important reason
• 25:17
  of having an in-person meeting.
• 25:18
  I would also say, you know, because you're right, I think the forums and stuff, you see a lot of negativity,
• 25:23
  but the people that are that negative are not the ones who are coming and putting in the effort at these kind of conferences.
• 25:28
  Those kind of people don't want to put in the effort to do this, they only want to complain about it,
• 25:32
  and you've got to kind of decide what kind of people you are, and this is, if you're willing to come to this conference,
• 25:37
  or any of the conferences you're going to go to, you're putting in an effort and at that point it becomes a little bit more, I think.
• 25:43
  I think we have to be honest about this.
• 25:45
  And I, you know, I've already this year set my stall out
• 25:47
  and spoken quite openly about this,
• 25:49
  but I think that the people who say,
• 25:51
  "Oh, nothing to do with AI, I think it's immoral,
• 25:53
  "it's unethical, they stole all the rest of it."
• 25:54
  I mean, nothing to do with it.
• 25:56
  I respect them, but I'm not going to lie to them
• 25:58
  and say it's going to be okay.
• 25:59
  It's not going to be okay.
• 26:01
  You are going to be left behind.
• 26:02
  You are going to disadvantage yourself.
• 26:05
  And, you know, if breaking even is your aim,
• 26:08
  how are you going to do that
• 26:09
  if you're going to not use the same tools
• 26:13
  else is using to move forward. So we have to have honest conversations, you have to
• 26:16
  tell people things they don't necessarily want to hear. It's a lot easier and kinder
• 26:20
  in person and it is on a Facebook thread.
• 26:23
  Yeah, absolutely. And I think talking about the energy here, I can't believe it maintained.
• 26:28
  There's such a buzz and part of it when you're thinking about venue, there's some minor downsides
• 26:33
  to this. But the upside was this was brilliant by the way. We're standing in a room here.
• 26:38
  It's a long, narrow room.
• 26:39
  There's food stations and coffee stations
• 26:42
  along the way where you could get.
• 26:43
  The vendors were here for two days straight
• 26:46
  all around the edge of this room.
• 26:48
  And this was the thoroughfare.
• 26:49
  If you wanna go to the Lou,
• 26:50
  you're gonna walk through here and walk through the vendors.
• 26:52
  And that might sound like you're walking through
• 26:53
  market stalls of people shouting out,
• 26:55
  "Not at all."
• 26:57
  When we walked in here yesterday morning
• 26:59
  and everyone was set up, I was like,
• 27:00
  "Oh, shit, I gotta go around and talk to everybody
• 27:02
  "because I won't have a chance because they'll be gone."
• 27:03
  No, they're here for two days, all around this room.
• 27:06
  So it was, you had so much time to spend with everybody
• 27:10
  and it created this buzz about this room.
• 27:12
  And when everyone came out of the talks,
• 27:14
  they all met back in this main room again
• 27:16
  and that buzz comes back again.
• 27:17
  Everyone's talking about, "Hey, I just heard this.
• 27:19
  "Did you listen to that?"
• 27:20
  We did the divide and conquer thing
• 27:21
  where like you go in that one, I'll go in this one.
• 27:24
  So I think that holding that energy level up for two days.
• 27:27
  I mean, the biggest thing I came out of here with is James.
• 27:30
  Can you add a third day?
• 27:32
  - Yeah, you're the second person to ask for that tonight.
• 27:34
  Yeah, honestly, and especially for us,
• 27:36
  because we're coming such a long way,
• 27:38
  it's like I'd love to have a third day.
• 27:40
  - Yeah, yeah.
• 27:41
  I mean, the suggestion from someone else
• 27:43
  was a mastermind day, a smaller number,
• 27:46
  where we probably would focus on AI
• 27:50
  and some more advanced uses.
• 27:51
  - Marketing stuff, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 27:53
  - Yeah, not out of the question.
• 27:55
  - Well, to give you the instant feedback now,
• 27:57
  thank you, I'm gonna sign up for next year.
• 27:59
  (laughing)
• 28:00
  I was like, maybe this is the,
• 28:02
  You do it once every three years,
• 28:04
  fly all the way from the Caimans to the UK,
• 28:06
  but I'm gonna sign up for sure.
• 28:09
  - Well, you used to live in New Zealand,
• 28:10
  so you're halfway here anyway.
• 28:11
  You may as well just do the last part.
• 28:13
  - Yeah, it's expensive.
• 28:14
  - He sounds Australian to me, I don't know.
• 28:17
  - Give me that back.
• 28:18
  You're banned.
• 28:19
  Hey James, thanks a lot for putting this on.
• 28:21
  It's been brilliant.
• 28:21
  We've really enjoyed it.
• 28:22
  - Nick and Doug, it's such a thrill having you here.
• 28:24
  I'm so honored that you came
• 28:26
  and you're broadcasting for me as well,
• 28:28
  and you've got me on, so I love you guys, and yeah, thank you.
• 28:30
  - Oh, thanks for everything you do.
• 28:31
  We appreciate it, mate.
• 28:33
  [MUSIC PLAYING]
• 28:38
  OK, end of day two, Duggy Dug.
• 28:41
  Woo, man.
• 28:42
  I don't know about you.
• 28:43
  I'm ready for a nap.
• 28:44
  I was going to say, I was thinking of a nap,
• 28:46
  and I got a really cold drink.
• 28:49
  Although, this is England.
• 28:50
  There's not anything cold, is there?
• 28:51
  Is it weather?
• 28:52
  The outside, yes.
• 28:53
  It's been cold as balls out here.
• 28:56
  All right, we're wrapped up.
• 28:58
  What's the big takeaways?
• 28:59
  - Oh wow, you know, like a lot of conferences,
• 29:02
  it's like drinking from a water or a fire hose.
• 29:05
  It's just insane, the amount of information you get.
• 29:08
  But the big takeaway has been nice to see
• 29:12
  that we're in a lifeboat with other people
• 29:14
  as this industry is changing.
• 29:16
  You know, the last conference I was at
• 29:18
  was in Author Nation in November.
• 29:20
  I think you were at Nink in September.
• 29:22
  - Yep.
• 29:22
  - That we already talk about on a regular basis
• 29:24
  on the podcast, all the changes that we see
• 29:26
  in the industry, and it's nice to get together
• 29:29
  other people, besides you and me,
• 29:31
  'cause we can be an echo chamber if we're not careful,
• 29:33
  and realize that we're in the same boat
• 29:35
  with a lot of these people.
• 29:37
  And then other people can start seeing a light
• 29:40
  that maybe you and I don't see,
• 29:41
  and we're able to then grasp a hold of it.
• 29:44
  - Yeah, yeah.
• 29:45
  I think it was, the two days were really well structured.
• 29:48
  I came here, not depressed, but certainly, you know,
• 29:53
  there's a lot going on that's challenging right now
• 29:56
  in our industry as Indies, as any author out there.
• 30:00
  And I honestly came here searching for ways forward.
• 30:05
  - Right, yes.
• 30:06
  - Searching for some light to pick things back up again,
• 30:08
  right?
• 30:09
  It's definitely a lull for me at the moment,
• 30:11
  where there's a lot of good things going on,
• 30:13
  but there's definitely a lull.
• 30:14
  And I am leaving here absolutely energized.
• 30:18
  And part of that is the just being amongst like-minded,
• 30:21
  we talked about it already, you know,
• 30:23
  sharing, jumping off the cliff together kind of thing.
• 30:26
  But also, there were some great presentations here.
• 30:29
  - Oh for sure, we had no--
• 30:30
  - On Facebook, on Amazon, and mindset, all kinds of stuff.
• 30:35
  I'm leaving here with notes.
• 30:37
  - Oh, I'm loaded up.
• 30:38
  I've got so much to do to get going.
• 30:42
  Like we said, it is, one of the big consensus
• 30:45
  from people we've talked to is that we are,
• 30:47
  as an industry, are in a period of massive change.
• 30:51
  So we as authors have to be ready to pivot.
• 30:53
  And we've said this before in the podcast.
• 30:55
  Pivoting is so important to know which way to go.
• 30:59
  And it's nice to know, like I said,
• 31:01
  it's nice to know it's not just me looking at it going,
• 31:03
  "Okay, well, this doesn't seem to be working.
• 31:05
  Is it just me?"
• 31:06
  Because there are people out there who are doing well
• 31:09
  and not to fault them.
• 31:11
  Sometimes a lot of luck goes into that.
• 31:13
  We maybe do everything right.
• 31:15
  And that was something someone else said.
• 31:16
  You may do everything right, and it just isn't working.
• 31:20
  So maybe you need to pivot and see what is the problem.
• 31:23
  And it's hard to even know when you're pivoting what to do.
• 31:26
  And again, the other thing I heard a lot is almost everyone,
• 31:29
  every talk when they talked about the change is
• 31:31
  that your mileage may vary,
• 31:33
  which is another thing that we talk about a lot.
• 31:35
  It may different.
• 31:36
  You know, we write thrillers and romance may be doing this.
• 31:39
  Right now, you know, lit RPG through the roof right now.
• 31:43
  And so it's a little bit different than trying to write,
• 31:46
  you know, if you're writing Amish romance
• 31:48
  or something like that, it's gonna be a big difference.
• 31:51
  - Yeah, no, great.
• 31:52
  It's, I, you know, we talked on the show that we did together about conferencing and how to go about it and come in with a plan, come in with things that you wanted to, and there were some talks here that I absolutely wanted to attend and I made sure I did.
• 32:05
  I went in there to get something out of them, I got something out of them and now I'm going to go home and try those things and see if it works.
• 32:11
  Especially with Facebook ads, which have been so challenging.
• 32:14
  And there was a great talk by Jerry Kirby on Kilby, I'm sorry, on Facebook ads.
• 32:21
  So great stuff.
• 32:22
  It was a really good conference.
• 32:23
  It has been very, very phenomenal.
• 32:25
  And like, you know, we had Becca on a minute ago.
• 32:27
  She's talked the same thing.
• 32:28
  Like, these are important events.
• 32:30
  And oftentimes you can't -- this is far away for a lot of our listeners.
• 32:34
  I mean, this is -- we had to cross the Atlantic, right?
• 32:36
  It's the Atlantic.
• 32:37
  I'm not -- my geography is not the best, you know?
• 32:39
  It's like my math.
• 32:40
  Yeah, yeah.
• 32:40
  If you went across the Pacific to get here, you went the long way.
• 32:42
  I'm a really terrible sailor if I don't know that.
• 32:46
  But the fact is, the good thing is, if you missed this and you still want the information,
• 32:52
  they're offering a digital package.
• 32:53
  Yeah, digital.
• 32:54
  It's like $150 and you can, everyone, they did a really pro job of filming and recording
• 32:59
  and it was a big deal in all of them to make sure the mic was passed around so they picked
• 33:02
  up every question.
• 33:04
  So you'll get every single piece of the presentation here for $150 and watch it in your own home.
• 33:09
  So it's brilliant.
• 33:10
  It's totally worth it.
• 33:11
  information I got from it.
• 33:12
  - Yeah.
• 33:13
  - And like I said, there's a huge, huge value
• 33:16
  to being here in person, I'll say that.
• 33:18
  So as other conferences come up,
• 33:19
  and you have a chance to go,
• 33:21
  make sure you take advantage.
• 33:22
  But if you can't, because not everybody can,
• 33:24
  not everybody's able to take off.
• 33:26
  There's an opportunity to still get this information
• 33:29
  and learn from it.
• 33:30
  And one of the other things I picked up on,
• 33:31
  and something that I fall short of,
• 33:33
  and I know you're probably a lot better than this than I am,
• 33:35
  is really just keeping up with the information.
• 33:38
  Maybe doing things as much as watching YouTube videos
• 33:40
  about Facebook ads and watching how other people are doing things.
• 33:45
  And there's so much resources out there that we can get.
• 33:49
  And this is one of those, and you should totally take advantage of it.
• 33:52
  >> Absolutely, absolutely.
• 33:53
  Really, really quality couple of days in a fantastic location.
• 33:57
  Really good presenters.
• 33:59
  I am so happy we made the effort to come over here and do this.
• 34:03
  >> Oh, for sure.
• 34:03
  >> This has been great.
• 34:04
  And it's always fun to hang out with you.
• 34:05
  >> Oh, well, sure.
• 34:06
  >> Yeah, yeah.
• 34:06
  >> We've had some fun evenings, and we're going to go out with a bunch of friends
• 34:09
  We're dragging a little bit, we're tired.
• 34:14
  Yeah, jet lag has been a little brutal.
• 34:17
  I think next year we're going to come in a week early.
• 34:21
  I thought two days was going to be enough, but now I'm starting to feel okay.
• 34:25
  It's coming to the end.
• 34:27
  But I think there's lots of opportunities here and I totally think it's worth going against.
• 34:32
  Absolutely.
• 34:33
  Big thank you to everyone that supports us on Patreon.
• 34:35
  If you're not currently supporting us, we'd love it if you did help support put this show out here.
• 34:39
  - And don't forget, we had to hang out with Mark from,
• 34:41
  I'm Mark Brad, I don't know where I pulled Mark from.
• 34:45
  (laughing)
• 34:46
  - Brad from Vellum.
• 34:48
  - Vellum, so that was always fun too.
• 34:50
  And so we all big thank you to Brad over there.
• 34:54
  - They had, yeah, and on the Vellum stand where Brad was,
• 34:58
  and he was, he's horse, I'm horse from talking to people,
• 35:00
  he's horse from talking to people two days.
• 35:03
  They had four stages, the example.
• 35:05
  - Oh yeah, they look gorgeous there.
• 35:06
  - Oh, man, they were so pretty.
• 35:09
  some really cool stuff and pictures inside the graphics inside the books and beautiful
• 35:13
  stuff.
• 35:13
  So huge thank you to the brads that are there for supporting the show.
• 35:17
  We love you guys.
• 35:17
  Thank you so much.
• 35:18
  Thanks for listening in.
• 35:20
  Until next time.
• 35:20
  Well, also before we go, let's make a big thank you to James Blatch and his team here
• 35:25
  because they've been very welcoming to let us come record here and talk to us while we're
• 35:29
  doing this.
• 35:29
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 35:30
  Yeah, yeah.
• 35:30
  For sure.
• 35:31
  They did a great job and we want to call out to all of them.
• 35:33
  They had a great team.
• 35:34
  So good, good one.
• 35:35
  Yeah.
• 35:36
  Until next time.
• 35:36
  Be cool to each other.
• 35:39
  You've been listening to the Two Authors podcast with Nicholas Harvey and Douglas Pratt.
• 35:45
  Subscribe on your favourite platform for new shows coming every week.
• 35:49
  (upbeat music)