Latest / Queer Voices / October 7th - Jack Vallinski brings Montrose Pride Flags back, Midterms, and Lane Lewis' Place in History!

Transcript

October 7th - Jack Vallinski brings Montrose Pride Flags back, Midterms, and Lane Lewis' Place in History! · Queer Voices

• 0:02
  Brett: You are listening to Queer Voices on 90.1 KPFT Houston or as a podcast.
• 0:09
  Brett: KPFT is a listener-funded station.
• 0:12
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• 0:14
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• 0:18
  Brett: We depend on people like you to donate at KPFT.org.
• 0:22
  Brett: Please consider doing that if you can.
• 0:24
  Brett: I am your host, Brett Cullum.
• 0:26
  Brett: Tonight I talk about flags and the midterm elections with Jack Valinsky.
• 0:31
  Brett: Then Lee Ingalls talks to Lane Lewis about his place in Houston's LGBTQIA Plus history.
• 0:38
  Brett: October is Queer History Month, so only fitting that we talk with two icons of our community to kick it off.
• 0:46
  Brett: Queer Voices starts now.
• 0:54
  Brett: Hey there, this is Brett Cullum, and with me today is community activist, living legend, and my political hero, Jack Volinsky.
• 1:02
  Brett: Jack is no stranger to Queer Voices, having been a host for many, many years.
• 1:05
  Brett: So welcome home, Jack.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you.
• 1:08
  Brett: Well, today I wanted to talk with you about the banners or the flags that you helped place in the Montrose district along Westheimer.
• 1:15
  Brett: Can you tell me about them a little bit?
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_02: And this should be a very simple story.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_02: Unfortunately, it's not.
• 1:21
  Brett: There never are.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_02: Back in the 1990s, there was some person in pride who decided that we should put pink triangles on the utility poles.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: I don't remember who it was, and I know they just did it.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't official.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_02: It was something temporary.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: So then the committee decided to formally apply for a banner district.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm not even sure if there were other banner districts in the city or what.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: But in 1995, we were awarded, along with three other groups in other parts of the city, a banner district.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: And that banner district was used for many years.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um and it was used until after they moved the parade downtown.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_02: And the committee that I was no longer part of it just, I guess, decided not to do it or forgot about it or whatever.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_02: That's fine.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_02: Because you don't just put the banners up there and forget about them.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_02: First of all, the Texas Sun.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_02: Second of all, I don't know what the exact ordinance says, but they have to be taken down at least once a year.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_02: And you can't do it yourself.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_02: You have to have an approved vendor that and that center point the city trust.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_02: So when this discussion was to remove the rainbow crossing, I was actually on the phone with council member Kamen at the time.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I was walking over to the area and she was talking about what we should do.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I says, Oh, you know, Pride has a banner district.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: I wonder if we can just get the banners back up.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: And she says, Oh, that's a great idea.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_02: Why don't you work on it?
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_02: So I did some work, um, and I was thinking about what organization would be interested in doing it because I didn't know whether it was still a valid banner district or not.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_02: So I talked to a couple different organizations, and then I talked to Carrie Ann Morrison of Pride, and she says, Absolutely, we want to do this.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_02: So then I started doing the bureaucracy part of this.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought, oh, this shouldn't be too hard since I used to work for the city.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: I used to have to do some of this type of stuff, especially the sort of odd stuff that that happens in the city.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_02: So I started calling and I kept being put in touch with the people who dealt with signs.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: And that was a completely wrong branch to go down to.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_02: And so finally we found the person and the person who deals with this basically probably only deals with it a few hours of the week, if that much, um, because it's not something you spend a lot of time with.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_02: I also knew we had to deal with center pain.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_02: So I started discussing with her, and she says, Yeah, we found that in 2002 the banner district was extended, but we don't have any paperwork for this.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_02: So she asked if we could just like reapply for this, and it wouldn't have to go through city council.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_02: You already have it, we just don't have the documentation.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: So then sort of was the same scenario with center point.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_02: Who deals with this?
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_02: Because you call center point, it's like what's your accountant?
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_02: And through the help of District C, Abby Cayman's office, we found that person in center point.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_02: And then there was a point, well, we can't do it until center point signs off, and then we can't do it until the city signs off.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_02: And we finally got a letter of intent from Center Point.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I know this sounds boring, but this is the reasons why it took so long.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_02: So as we're going through the process, the kit the city kept changing what they wanted.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think they actually had a real form or uh way to do this because we would submit what they asked, and no, that wasn't good enough.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_02: So finally, after going back and forth at the end of May, I got a message that they got everything they needed, but don't call us, we'll call them.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't know.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I pretty much figure that it must have been caught up in the mayor's office.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_02: Now, you know, why would the mayor be concerned about something so small?
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_02: It was like he doesn't deal with potholes, he's got people to deal do that.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_02: And so we kept finding out.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_02: So I started going to council meetings, just sit there and stare at the council.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_02: I asked five different council offices if they can go back there and talk to the mayor and ask what's going on.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_02: And every time they came back with the chamber.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, I'm confused.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_02: We did the application, we got all the paperwork, we got the insurance, we know who the vendor is approved by the city.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_02: And for some reason, the mayor wanted this project to be done by the LGBT chamber.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_02: And finally, somebody, Kevin Strickland, went up there at a public session and asked the mayor directly.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I was trying to work around without like screaming and yelling.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_02: So the mayor says, okay, I'm going to put a meeting together next week and we'll sit down and talk about it.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I found out the meeting happened, but Pride was never invited to the meeting, uh, which is like really crazy.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like, why weren't we?
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: So apparently the mayor never knew that we actually did all the paperwork and it was sitting in public works, but it never went over to the mayor's office.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_02: So I got the packet all assembled and presentation and stuff and handed it.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: Personally had somebody hand it to the chief of staff of the mayor.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: And then that was approved.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_02: And but along the way, council member came and says, I'm going to put$10,000, the cost of what it was going to be, from my district funds to pay for this.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_02: We thought, oh, this is great, but we never asked you to do it.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: And then at one point the mayor says, I really don't want the city to pay for this.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: And stood, understood.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_02: Abbott may come back after him for the governor.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_02: So we expected to start raising money, and we were ready to do that.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_02: And then the mayor says, I will personally pay for this.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_02: And we said, Great.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_02: So then most we got the city, we had to go through the center point bureaucracy, we got that taken care of, and then we actually had to order them because they're not like something that's going to target, pick up these bands.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_02: They're personally made.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_02: So it basically took a year.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, it was a week ago Friday that they went up there.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, the vendor who put them up was great.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, in fact, I was actually having lunch on on that Friday, and I got two different calls saying they're going up, they're going up.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, yes, so they're up there.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_02: But I really wish we did much more than just the banners.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_02: I really wish that we were able to work with the businesses.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not blaming anybody, I could have done that too.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_02: But so once the banners were up, then we had a press conference, um, and we invited our elected officials from our congresswoman to our uh county commissioner and our state rep and down the down the line there, including the mayor.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_02: And um we did it at the Avondale Promenade Park, which we're very lucky because there's a little like sort of like porch there, um, covered area, and it rained.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um so gosh.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_02: It really turned out well.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I think um state representative Ann Johnson's speech was one of the best, saying that when she was young and that she saw that rainbow crossing there, it just made a world of difference to her to understand her community was there.
• 8:35
  Brett: Yeah.
• 8:35
  Brett: Well, it just the the thing with the rainbow crosswalk, it happens so quickly.
• 8:39
  Brett: And and what I don't understand, did the mayor ever express like I mean, it sounds like he's paying for this out of his own money, right?
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_02: So that's sort of another interesting story.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_02: The rainbow crosswalk was a person behind that was a guy named Matt Roiler, who used to work for the city and now is the chair of the Montrose Tours, and a friend of his got murdered at that intersection.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_02: And he worked on it.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_02: He said it took a year and a half to do it, and they got the rainbow crossing there.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_02: So, and every year or so it got repainted and everything was fine.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_02: But Metro repaved West Hammer.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_02: Now, a lot of us in the community really wanted West Himmer to be completely redone, but Metro decided just to pave it, and that only lasts a couple years.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_02: Well, when they paved it, they paved over it.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_02: And then there was money spent, upwards of$50,000, to get it repainted.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: And once it was repainted, it was in the press, and somehow it got to the governor.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: And then the governor decided that no rainbow crossing should be anywhere in the entire state, or no decorative crosswalk should be anywhere.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: Now, I understand there still are some around, not no rainbow ones, but there's some other ones around.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but you know, it's like, why was the governor concerned with this?
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_02: And um so, yeah, so I remember it was a year ago in October, uh shortly before early voting started, that in the middle of the night, um they were and they they like dug into that street to get rid of it.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_02: You could, if you walk on that crosswalk, you can see one little part on mere one curve, but it's gone.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_02: And what was really interesting though, in that was, and I cannot take credit for this, there was a number of people, including council member and other people, um, that went out there and protested.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_02: They went out there and they decorated the sidewalks.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_02: They went out there and and I remember, I remember that because there was a couple young kids out there painting the sidewalk.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_02: And it just shows, I mean, neither one of these items changes the world, but it certainly gives us vision.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_02: It gives us um, you know, somewhere where we see where what we are, just like the Pride Parade.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, the Pride Parade hasn't changed the world, but it gives us visibility and it gives people, especially some people that don't know we have a community, they see it.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I certainly remember the years I worked on on Pride in the Parade, how young kids would be looking around the corner a block away, or that we would get messages or mail or email or whatever saying thank you because we know we we know we have a community.
• 11:26
  Brett: Yeah.
• 11:27
  Brett: Well, it's an important thing.
• 11:28
  Brett: I mean, I remember as a a young man people telling me, you know, look for the rainbow flags or the symbols, and that's that's how you know, you know, and and we lost that marking for a while.
• 11:39
  Brett: And it's it's kind of a very symbolic thing that you gotta put up on these utility poles.
• 11:44
  Brett: It almost reminds me of that uh Michelle Obama quote of when they go low, we go high.
• 11:50
  Brett: These are way up there.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_02: I gotta say that, you know, I I volunteered to do the Soup Pride Houston, yeah, and they were absolutely 100% behind it.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: And Carrie Ann was just like, you know, I explained to her what why we were having problems.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_02: I was almost apologizing why it was taking so long, but she saw the process and she did everything she needed to do and pride needed to do to get this thing going.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and you know, it's there.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_02: So I hope that we will continue on and expand the dish.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_02: I made this joke at the press conference that we're gonna run the flags all the way down to Derriashford and pick it up.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_02: And no, we're not gonna do that, but we're gonna look at um extending it further down Westheimer uh to match sort of where it was before, maybe a little bit further, and do some community fundraising.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, now that this is done and we know the process.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_02: And it's strange because the vendor asked me if anybody wants to do banners, would I be able to help them out, you know, give them how this is all done?
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: I said, absolutely, I would help them.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I hope they don't have the same problem and how long it takes.
• 13:00
  Brett: Yeah, no kidding.
• 13:02
  Brett: It was a major one, and and you hung in there through the whole thing.
• 13:04
  Brett: So thank you for getting all of this uh up and running and all that.
• 13:08
  Brett: How long are these gonna be up?
• 13:10
  Brett: I mean, you mentioned that you have to take them down at least once a year.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_02: I think it was uh I remember, you know, we used to put them up in May and take them down around September, I think.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_02: So it's probably four months.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not, and I also need to assure is that once we take, if they take them down, can we put others in its place?
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_02: And and I don't know that answer, but I'm gonna I'm gonna find that out.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_02: So, and the company that put them up takes them down and stores them and and et cetera.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's that's an easy process.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_02: Because I do remember after we got this banner district going, we had to make two phone calls.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: Take them up, take them down.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, the the initial expense was not just the banners, it was the brackets and it was the insurance and all that type of stuff.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_02: So can continuing on, it's not going to be that expensive.
• 14:01
  Brett: Yeah, a lot less going forward.
• 14:03
  Brett: But how do you uh how do you plan for the expenses of going forward?
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, is it just through fundraising or we we will ask we will ask for money.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we were ready to do so.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_02: We were ready to do so before the mayor stepped in.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: And we thought this was a pretty hot, and I'm not a good fundraiser.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: I will first I hate fundraising.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: I hate dialings for dollars, but um I I, you know, I think we will have the money to do that because of visibility and how much people liked it.
• 14:30
  Brett: Yeah, no, it's it's a great symbol.
• 14:32
  Brett: And it's like you said, it's a reassuring symbol for the entire community, whether you're young or old, uh, that this is still kind of our area.
• 14:43
  Brett: Uh, and that we are part of the community that gets represented.
• 14:47
  Brett: And representation matters a lot.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_02: So I do have another project I'm working on.
• 14:52
  Brett: Okay.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that is for uh I'm going to I'm working on getting an all Democratic card to push at West Gray as the early voting is coming up in the next like two weeks from from Monday.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I've got it funded.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: And basically the idea is to tell people to vote all the way down the ballot because we have the biggest ballot in the country.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_02: And we're really hoping for a wave, but we want that wave to go all the way down the ballot.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm asking for volunteers to help out.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, this is non-paid.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_02: This is just standing out there talking to voters and and asking them for their vote.
• 15:32
  Brett: Great.
• 15:32
  Brett: Hey, if somebody wants to do that, how do they get in touch with you to do it?
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_02: Look on Facebook and look for my name.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: Just put in my last name and you'll find me.
• 15:40
  Brett: Yeah, which is Volinsky, V-A-L-L-I-N-S-I-B-L-I-N-I-N-S-K-I.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 15:46
  Brett: Yeah.
• 15:47
  Brett: Yeah.
• 15:47
  Brett: So, all right.
• 15:48
  Brett: Well, we're gonna stick some people on you on social media, but uh what do you think of the political polls right now?
• 15:54
  Brett: Do you have a lot of hope?
• 15:56
  Brett: I have a lot of hope, but I have to be realistic.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, things look really, really good, but it all depends on who goes out and votes.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_02: And we may make history this time.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: I say the next election is the most important one in your life until the next one.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_02: And the election is important because I need, I mean, I'd I go out there and I work West Gray, and we will have some elections where very few people show up.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_02: This one we should see a lot of people showing up.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: So, and it is real easy to vote.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, is I hope you're all registered.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_02: We're almost at the deadline to register and vote if you're not registered.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_02: But the fact that we have 12 days of early voting, and I would suggest everybody early vote because if something is wrong with your registration, it's a lot easier to fix during early voting, and you have uh you know more chances if you vote early to come back if you need to come back.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: And the fact is, and I mean, Harrisvotes.com is a place to go.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_02: It will show you where all the voting locations are for early voting for election day, and you can vote anywhere in the county.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_02: They make it real easy, and our district clerk um is absolutely fantastic.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_02: She, uh, Tanisha Hitspun, and and uh she is just probably the best woman we've ever had in making these elections accessible and fair and and do all that.
• 17:20
  Brett: Yeah.
• 17:20
  Brett: It's gonna be an interesting voting season.
• 17:23
  Brett: Uh I hope that we're not held hostage by those uh country areas where it seems like they always go for I mean, Houston's usually blue.
• 17:32
  Brett: I and the thing is rack up the numbers, it'll be much harder for them to complain about.
• 17:37
  Brett: Yeah.
• 17:38
  Brett: What do you think about the attack ads like on Tal Rico?
• 17:42
  Brett: I see this one all the time where he there's a false claim that he supports trans surgeries on kids.
• 17:48
  Brett: And they show a clip from the HRC video that was released May 31st, 2022.
• 17:54
  Brett: But what's funny is that in that actual video, I went and actually watched it, they are not pro-surgery in that segment.
• 18:01
  Brett: They actually talk about letting kids express themselves with things like hair or clothes or just, you know, the way that they naturally act.
• 18:08
  Brett: There's no These ads, I mean, all over the country, these ads.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_02: And they keep pouring more and more money into it.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm not, you know, I honestly don't know how much this makes a difference pouring it into radio and television and stuff.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean, one of the most effective things to do is talk to your neighbors.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I know there's a whole bunch of groups going down block walking, or you know, knocking on doors of people who are habitual voters, or who have voted in the past to try to say, have a conversation with them and talk about, talk about you know what we're doing here.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I my version of it is to be at the polls and and talk to people, although you only have like 15 seconds to talk to a person.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, although sometimes people pull you aside and ask, you know, more deeper questions, which is fine.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_02: So um don't get frustrated.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_02: The lines may be long, uh, but they will move fast, as fast as they can, and vote all the way down because it is a long, long ballot.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_02: We're the second largest voting entity in the country that Los Angeles County is number one, and Chicago and Cook County are two different entities.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_02: So that makes us number two, if that's correct.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_02: And the fact that we vote for all these judges because we're such a big county, uh, it just is so long.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_02: And we vote for, we not only vote for the jud the judges in our county, we vote for the appeals judges and the Supreme Court, and we vote for um, we vote for county commissioner, we vote for um county judge, which is which is a misnomer.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's really like the county mayor.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_02: And then we also vote for like constables and justice of the peace.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it is really, really long.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: And then there's also a a question to vote for about whether HPD, and this will be only in the city, um, should back off on uh on arresting people with low-level marijuana.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so that's there.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_02: And then besides that part of the, there's also an election for HTAC, which is the appraisal.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_02: And that one is not Democrat or Republican.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_02: That's an open race.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_02: So so we could have a runoff in December for that because there's more than two candidates in some of those slots.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm a political junkie, but I learn something new every time because something was different.
• 20:29
  Brett: Yeah, we just had Chris Ellinger on, uh, and he's running for one of those HCAD positions, actually.
• 20:34
  Brett: So it's very interesting, just all of the different races and the permutations of it and everything.
• 20:40
  Brett: Um, well, the big one too, and and what I wonder is do you think that uh Gina Hinahosa could take the governor's seat, or is that just anything is possible.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_02: Anything is possible.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you're looking at the polls, they look like, you know, they're they're even.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_02: So get out there and vote, get your friends to vote.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_02: And the better Harris County does, because Harris County is a big part of of the state of Texas.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_02: There's 264 counties, I believe, but Harris County has more people than any other county.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_02: So if we get a lot of people voting in Harris County, it will probably make a difference.
• 21:13
  Brett: Yeah.
• 21:13
  Brett: Well, what do you think the impact of a blue wave could do?
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it our lives will change significantly.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I can't believe that we are fighting for some of the stuff that I fought for 50 years ago, if not long ago.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_02: I can't believe that uh equ marriage equality could be taken away.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: I never thought Roe would be taken away, but it was.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_02: So we're always one step of of, you know, we're not where we used to be.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_02: And and the fact that Supreme Court just seems to side with this president no matter what is just scary.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and and we're hoping, I mean, so far I understand these elections should be safe.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_02: We shouldn't be intimidated, but we just don't know.
• 21:56
  Brett: Yeah.
• 21:56
  Brett: Well, thank you.
• 21:57
  Brett: When is uh do you know the exact date the early voting starts?
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, it starts the uh seventeenth of no the nineteenth of of this month through the 30th.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: So it's on Monday and it goes to a week for Monday and then the following Friday, and you got from 7 a.m.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: to 7 p.m.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_02: except for Sundays noon to seven, and then election day is November 3rd, and that's from 7 a.m.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: to 7 p.m.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_02: And if you end up in line, as long as you're there before 7 p.m., you will be able to vote.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um if you you if if there's no line and you walk in at 701, you can't vote.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: But if there's a line and you get in line before 7 p.m., uh, and I've been at those lines because I've seen how they how they handle that, uh, they will move you through and voting will happen, continue until that last person gets in and votes.
• 22:51
  Brett: Well, good to know.
• 22:51
  Brett: And I will definitely see you early voting in the parking lot like I do every time I vote.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_02: The mayor of the parking lot?
• 23:00
  Brett: You are.
• 23:03
  Brett: Well, thank you, Jack.
• 23:04
  Brett: Thank you for everything that you do.
• 23:05
  Brett: Thank you for getting to these banner flags up and working this and and getting this uh card together for to push.
• 23:14
  Brett: And if anybody wants to come and help you with the parking lot, they'll look you up on social media.
• 23:18
  Brett: I appreciate it.
• 23:19
  Brett: Thank you for everything.
• 23:27
  Lee: Welcome everyone, Ar Lee Ingalls here.
• 23:29
  Lee: October is Queer History Month, and history is something that I find very fascinating.
• 23:34
  Lee: Uh, today I'm joined by Lane Lewis, former county chair of the Harris County Democratic Party, and the former president of the LGBTQ political caucus.
• 23:44
  Lee: And we're going to talk about a significant event in our shared history, the Lawrence versus Texas case.
• 23:51
  Lee: Most people should know about that one, but in case they don't, uh Lane, welcome to the show.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you, Lane.
• 23:57
  Lee: Can you let our listeners know what it is and how you became involved in it?
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_06: Lawrence v.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_06: Texas was the Supreme Court case that said that anti-sodomy laws were illegal, and those were the laws that were used to discriminate against queer folks across the country in every state, just about.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_06: And when that happened, then that opened up the door for marriage equality, occupational equality, habitational equality, a lot of things that we take for granted now.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_06: When I started activism in the early 90s, 2106, which was the law that was used to discriminate against queer folks, was very prevalent.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_06: Some friends, and we had very few of them back then on the political side, uh tried to get rid of it.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_06: John Whitmeyer being the main one.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_06: He tried very diligently to get rid of 2106 uh back in the early 90s.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_06: And I just kind of became obsessed with getting rid of it.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_06: A lot of folks were being discriminated against at that time due to their real or perceived HIV status.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_06: So that was a more in-your-face problem that needed to be solved.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_06: So when I was first started becoming an activist, that was really my focus.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_06: But when the American with Disabilities Act passed, you didn't need activists as much as you needed lawyers then, because now there were legal protection for these folks.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_06: That allowed me to shift my focus back to 2106.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, in fact, just recently I came across a hand-signed letter from Ann Richards.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_06: I think it was dated 1992 or 93, I think.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_06: I found it in some box.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, and she was specifically thanking me for the attention to what she described as a very discriminatory law.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_06: Anywho, in the late 90s, or around 98, I was still actively seeking a case.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_06: And I was working at a bar called Pacific Street, uh, down in Montrose, and a retired Harris County deputy by the name of Mark, who hung out there regularly, came in and he said, Hey, Nathan, that was his boyfriend that worked for Judge Parrott, who was a JP out in Channel View, Texas, if you can believe it.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_06: He said, Hey, Nathan said that something happened last night and that you needed to know about it.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_06: Okay, what happened?
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_06: He said, Well, apparently two guys were arrested for having sex in their apartment, and they were drugged out of their apartment and taken to jail and charged with 2106.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_06: Now, I met this conversation with a bit of skepticism, and here's why.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_06: For about 10 years prior to that, I had taught out at the police academy gay sensitivity training to police cadets and had been doing that since early 90s, I guess.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_06: Also, I was the coordinator for the Citizens Review Committee, which means that when people filed internal affairs division complaints, those complaints, after being investigated by the police, then came to me and my committee.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_06: Okay.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_06: So I was very accustomed to hearing one version on the streets, and then when I got into the facts, they didn't always line up with the people that were making the complaint.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_06: Sometimes they did, and and we addressed that.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_06: But more often than not, there was something else to the story.
• 27:01
  Lee: Well, just kind of a clarification of what actually took place.
• 27:04
  Lee: So the police were called regarding a another event, a weapons violation or a weapons charge or something, and they just happened to go in there and find them.
• 27:13
  Lee: They were not actually targeting them for any reason.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_06: No, no, they won't.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_06: What happened was there were three gentlemen, John Lawrence, uh Tyrone Garner, and a guy named Royce.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_06: I believe that Royce had gotten jealous for whatever reason of something that was going on in the apartment.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_06: And I don't think it was anything, because he was pretty drunk at the time, from what I understand.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_06: And so he went down to the corner store and called the police and said there's a black man waving a gun in apartment number, blah, blah, blah.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_06: So the police were responding to that.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_06: So they pull up, Royce waves him down and takes him up to the apartment.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_06: And they go in and they definitely see some physically suggestive materials on the walls, on the table, et cetera, et cetera, and arrested John Lawrence and Tyrone Garner and charged them with sexual misconduct 2106.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_06: So when Mark was standing there at the bar telling me this story, and I met it with some suspicion, I said, look, just tell Nathan when he gets into the office tomorrow on Monday, Monday morning, to fax me the police report and I'll look into it.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_06: So I think I made some cracks about it or maybe uh brought it up in casual conversation over the weekend with my customers, like, hey, you know what this thing is, might be, might not be, whatever.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_06: But sure enough, Monday morning at like, I don't know, 6:30 or 7 o'clock, which is the crack of dawn for a bartender at the time, my fax machine went off.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, hopefully your listeners know what a fax machine is.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_06: But my fax machine went off, and I just, you know, laid there in bed.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_06: And the first thing I thought was, who in the world is faxing me at this hour in the morning?
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_06: And then it dawned on me what it might be.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_06: I just shot up and went immediately to my fax machine.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_06: And sure enough, Nathan had faxed me both police reports, and they were identical, other than the one had John's name on it, one had Tyrone's.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_06: Other than that, they were identical.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_06: And sure enough, it was clean, clean.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_06: There was no mitigating circumstances, there was no mention of guns or violence or resisting arrest.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_06: It was, we went into this apartment, we saw this happening, and we arrested these two guys in charge for it.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, it was exactly what we needed in order to proceed.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_06: I uh started trying to get a hold of the two guys and couldn't reach Tyrone.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_06: None of the phone numbers that Tyrone was had on his police report worked.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_06: But I was able to get a hold of John Lawrence.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_06: I explained to John who I was.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_06: He was a little confused.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_06: He said, you know, who are you?
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_06: How did you get my information?
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_06: Yada, yada.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_06: I said, John, I said, Mr.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_06: Lawrence, my name is Lane Lewis.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_06: You don't know me.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_06: I'm a political activist, but I've heard that you were arrested and I want to help.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_06: Help how.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_06: Um, I think we have a Supreme Court case, and I think we can legalize homosexuality in the United States.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_06: And and John was mad.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_06: He was very angry at what had happened.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, they had been drug out in their underwear in front of their neighbors at whatever time it was, one or two o'clock in the morning.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_06: So he was he was pretty angry.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_06: And during the conversation, he says to me, he says, and what's even worse is we weren't even having sex.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_06: And I said, John, I don't ever want you to say that to anybody again, except your lawyers, when I get them, because it does not matter.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_06: It only matters what's on the four corners of the page of that arrest report.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_06: And if the police said you were doing it, then that's all that matters.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_06: I knew day one they were not doing anything.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_06: I then called a few people.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_06: Once John gave me his okay to sort of represent him, and he gave me an actual phone number for Tyrone, and I called Tyrone, had the same conversation with Tyrone, and he agreed to let me help.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_06: Their big concern was money.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_06: You know, who's gonna pay for these attorneys?
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_06: I said, trust me, money is not gonna be trust me, trust me.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_06: The lawyers are gonna we'll find we'll find the money to do this.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_06: So I made a few calls to some mentors of mine at the time, uh, Ray Hill, Sue Lovell, Anise Parker had I had just finished my first, my one term as president of the caucus, and we had gotten, and and Anise Parker had gotten elected to her first term on city council.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_06: So she was newly elected, relatively speaking, to city council.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_06: And I called her because one of my concerns was if I screwed something up, I didn't want it to just be me that screwed it up.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_06: I wanted to get input from other people because I wanted it to be a community thing, not just a Lane Lewis thing.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_06: So I wanted to refer the case to a guy named Mitchell Katine for a few reasons.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_06: One, I knew Mitchell personally, and um he had helped me when Bill Scott and I were starting the Lewis Scott Youth Center and the Houston Institute for Protection of Youth, the only residential treatment facility that I know of that has ever existed in the United States for homeless HIV-positive kids.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_06: Mitchell helped us with the legal work.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_06: Mitchell had helped my uncle and his boyfriend when they were moved here from California and they were working on their own HIV and AIDS issues.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_06: But he worked for a big law firm, Williams Bernberg and Anderson with Jerry Bernberg, brilliant legal mind.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_06: They had deep pockets and they had ties to prior Supreme Court cases.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_06: So I thought Mitchell was a natural person to go to because he had certainly volunteered enough of his time and talents to the community.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_06: Um, but he also had a law firm that could help financially and get it all going on.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_06: I'll be honest, Ray was was was pretty excited about it.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, Anise was skeptical, but they all agreed, yes, Mitchell Coutine, Williamsburg and Anderson, that's a logical place to put it.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_06: I called Mitchell and I explained to him what was going on.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_06: He had the same reaction as I did, kind of a roll of the eyes, okay, you know, whatever, send it to me and I'll take a look.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_06: So I faxed it to him.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_06: I bet it wasn't a minute later he called me back and said, Is this real?
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_06: Do you have any idea what this is?
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_06: I think I have a very good idea what this is.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_06: Mitchell arranged, asked Williams Bernberg and Anderson if they would be interested, and they were.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_06: And so they asked if I could get the two men to come in with me.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_06: So I drove out to Channel View.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_06: I picked up all three of them.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_06: Keep in mind there were three of them John Tyrone and Royce, the guy who made the gun charge call.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_06: So I took all three of them to the law offices of Williams, Bernburg, and Anderson, and we met, and the lawyers kind of laid out what was going on, what would happen.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_06: And then at some point towards the end of the meeting, I asked for the room.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_06: All the lawyers left, and it was just me and the three guys.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_06: And uh I kind of talked about Harry Hay, the Medichine Society, the work we had done with AIDS Equity League, um Harvey Milk, you know, uh I did I did this whole ask, not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for rest.
• 33:53
  Lee: Our history.
• 33:54
  Lee: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_06: And kind of gave them this rah-rah speech.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_06: And and I was up front with them, Lee.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_06: I I was very specific.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_06: I said, guys, right now, when this case comes out, it's gonna very much be about you as the defendants.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_06: But it there's only so much I can do that's gonna be able to protect you.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_06: These were not men that were living their lives in the light.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_06: These were closeted, more or less closeted men that had jobs and families and lives.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_06: And I said, Your family, you will be in the paper.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_06: Your families are gonna find out what's going on.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_06: And there's only so long I'm gonna be able to protect you from all of this.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_06: But once we get past all of that, eventually this case won't be about you at all.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_06: It's gonna be about the law and words on paper, and you need to understand that too, right?
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_06: It's sort of like celebritism, right?
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_06: It's all about you, and then you need to understand that at some point it's not you at all.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_06: So I I feel like I did a really good job preparing them for what was gonna come next.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_06: And they all agreed to move forward.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_06: And and and John and Tyrone, especially, really need to be given props as unsung heroes.
• 34:57
  Lee: Yeah, yeah.
• 34:58
  Lee: I agree with you, and that's one thing that I think that most people don't understand until they get into a circumstance like that, just how invasive making that decision is going to be for at least a short period of time in their in their life.
• 35:10
  Lee: It's is dramatically going to change what their life looks like.
• 35:13
  Lee: So, you know, hats off to you for prepping them for that and for to them for agreeing to take that on, accepting that.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_06: And there were uh definite consequences on more than one occasion.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_06: John Lawrence lived in Channelview, in the apartment where all this happened, but he worked at Bayshore Hospital here in Pasadena.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_06: And on more than one occasion, at least three that I can think of, he was having a bad day at work where people were teasing him.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_06: He was like, I think like an x-ray technician or something like that.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_06: He wasn't a nurse, but he he worked in the medical field somehow or another in Pasadena.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_06: And I would drive out and, you know, eight, nine o'clock, and he would come out on his break, and we would sit on the hood of my car and uh kind of decompress and you know, tell me what happened and what's going on and why this is important, and you know, we would have that conversation and then he would go back in and he was good for another few weeks.
• 36:05
  Lee: So the one thing that I think is also significant.
• 36:07
  Lee: So this would happen in the event took place in 1998, but in 1986, there was a case in Georgia that the Supreme Court looked at uh and they found in favor of the sodomy laws.
• 36:22
  Lee: It was the Bowers, I can't remember what the Harwick.
• 36:27
  Lee: Yes, Bowers and Harwick was the case.
• 36:29
  Lee: So the ruling at that point was 5'4 in favor of upholding those sodomy laws.
• 36:35
  Lee: So we're talking 12 years of difference between those two cases and a reversal, because in the Supreme Court ruling for Lawrence versus Texas, it was six three vote to overturn it.
• 36:46
  Lee: So I think that's significant.
• 36:48
  Lee: That's a significant part of the history.
• 36:49
  Lee: So in a in a relatively short period of time, and certainly while I was an adult, both of those events took place, kind of indicating a uh swing in the country.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_06: Well, and I also think there was differences in the case, if I'm not mistaken.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_06: Wasn't the Harwick case, weren't they in an R V in a public space?
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_06: I could be mistaken.
• 37:07
  Lee: But it had very it was very similar to the the lower.
• 37:12
  Lee: Yeah, the policeman broke or came into the apartment for or into the wherever it was, an apartment house, I'm not sure, for some other reason and found two men together um and arrested them and then and that case was was tested.
• 37:27
  Lee: Uh the same way.
• 37:28
  Lee: But you made a really important point, and one that I don't want to kind of skirt over is the the ruling in this case was then used as a foundation for so many other cases that we won after that.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_06: Yes.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_06: And w when I was doing the HIV AIDS work, and you've I saw time and time again where 2106 was cited uh for habitational discrimination, for example.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_06: You know, two men, two women, if they wanted to rent an apartment, people don't remember this.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_06: You probably do.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_06: I certainly do.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_06: If you were two guys or or two women, you could not rent a one-bedroom apartment.
• 38:03
  Lee: That's right.
• 38:04
  Lee: That's absolutely right.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_06: You had to do it too.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_06: So if if if you know you were just starting out and you couldn't afford a two-bedroom apartment, well, tough, tough nookies because you weren't gonna get an apartment unless you did that.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_06: So I knew there were other things other than there was habitational, occupational.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_06: It was a hundred percent legal to fire you for being gay.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_06: It wasn't a hundred percent okay to fire you for having HIV back then.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_06: If they found out if you disclosed.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_06: So, but all of this stuff up here that we were fighting for, none of it was gonna be achievable until you got the root cause.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_06: And that was 2106.
• 38:39
  Lee: Yeah, yeah.
• 38:40
  Lee: And many of the decisions that were made after that point back to this one.
• 38:43
  Lee: So yeah, it was significant in in in many, many ways.
• 38:46
  Lee: And then, okay, so along the journey, how long did it take then before you realize so we are making traction?
• 38:52
  Lee: This is gonna move forward, and it might move forward in a really positive way.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_06: I think the whole thing took what about five years, I believe, from like 98 to 2004.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_06: Wasn't it Lawrence v.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_06: Texas, 2004, I think?
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_06: It was 2003, June of 2003.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_06: Oh my life.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, 2003.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_06: We knew fairly early on that it was a a I'm gonna call it a losable case because that's what you want to do.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_06: You want to lose.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_06: Because if you win, it's over.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_06: You want to lose.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_06: I'll tell you a funny story.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_06: At one point in the process, somewhere uh in the Texas Criminal Court of Appeals, which is sort of like the Supreme Court piece of it, in Texas, we had one.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_06: Um, the judges found in our favor.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_06: And so it was over.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_06: Theoretically, it was over, right?
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_06: The three judges um make a determination that are on the court.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_06: And if if there's an appeal, then it goes to more judges.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_06: There's like five of them, I think.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_06: Anyway, long story short, I was involved in Democratic politics.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_06: Now, this is years before I became county chair, but I was involved enough.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_06: And so I started calling some of my Republican precinct chairs that I had met and began bragging that we had won.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_06: And I'm gonna assume that they began complaining.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_06: And eventually a guy named Gary Pollard, who was a longtime county chair for the Republican Party, he got involved and allegedly began making threats to these judges that, you know, he was gonna make sure they were primaried and they were gonna raise money.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_06: And the court decided that they needed to go back and revisit it.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_06: And they did revisit it, and lo and behold, they went against us.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_06: And that's what enabled us to go to the next step to the Supreme Court.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_06: Funny story, years later, probably around 2012 or 2013, I was on a show called Red, White, and Blue, and Gary was one of the hosts, as was David, who was the Democratic side on the host.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_06: It was on channel eight.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_06: I don't know if you ever saw it or not.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_06: It was on for years and years and years and years.
• 40:47
  Lee: I don't remember seeing it, no.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_06: It was on PBS and they would have guests on.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_06: They would have point counterpoint kind of thing.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_06: And uh one year they invited me to be a guest on it, something, and I don't even know what the topic was.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_06: But when it came my first time to talk, it was the first time I'd ever actually met Gary Pollard.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_06: And um, it came my turn to talk.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_06: And I said, Well, before I answer the the question, Gary, I wanted to say uh it's very, very nice to meet you.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_06: And I just wanted to thank you for all that you did in helping to legalize sodomy in the state of Texas.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_06: David cracked up.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_06: Gary took his head because he knew if he had kept his mouth shut, we probably would have it it would have died Texas anyway.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_06: Good times.
• 41:28
  Lee: So goodness.
• 41:28
  Lee: So you've had quite a history then in in not only the political arena, but also in uh in our history here in Houston.
• 41:36
  Lee: So what do you think of the more significant events that have taken place?
• 41:39
  Lee: I mean, this certainly is one of them, and a win I'm in for us.
• 41:43
  Lee: But what else do you see or have you seen that you thought was remarkable?
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_06: I went to a housewarming party for uh someone, his son was there.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_06: His son was from Phoenix, and his son said that he was happy his dad is moved moved back to Texas, blah, blah, blah.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_06: He said, But I had no idea Houston had this big gay community.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_06: And so I'm glad that my dad has a community here that can he can connect into.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_06: And I said, Well, Houston does have a big community.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_06: In fact, the very first LGBT mayor of any city in the United States elected here in Houston.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_06: The decriminalization of homosexuality right here in in Houston.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_06: So we have a pretty good track record when it comes to uh queer rights here in the red state of Texas.
• 42:25
  Lee: Yeah, yeah.
• 42:26
  Lee: No, and I would have to agree with you.
• 42:28
  Lee: And then going forward, what do you see as important issues that are going to come up that will need to be addressed or are in the process of being addressed?
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_06: Everything that we think is stable and dependable is not.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_06: When the Supreme Court came down with the 2106 decision in 2003, as you pointed out, we had a rally on the steps of City Hall.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_06: And people were gathering there along the reflecting pools.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_06: And me, Ray Hill, Anise, Mitchell, we were inside City Hall in the lobby there waiting to come out and speak.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_06: And people that were there kept talking about how grateful they were to the Supreme Court for the making this decision.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_06: And I remember saying, no, we we don't need to be grateful for the Supreme C Court to giving us something that is inherently ours to begin with.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_06: If I thank you for giving me something, I'm also inadvertently giving you the power to take it away.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_06: And nobody, everybody kind of brushed me off except Ray.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_06: Ray was Ray Hill was the only one that kind of turned and it it caught his attention.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_06: And now here we are all these years later, and I would say that I am more right today than I was 20 something years ago because it's all on the table again.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_06: Just ask women in Roe v.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_06: Wade, it's all on the table again.
• 43:45
  Lee: Right, right.
• 43:46
  Lee: And I I would have to agree with that.
• 43:47
  Lee: So we do know the in June of 2015, then is when the Supreme Court made their decision on marriage equality that it should be the the way of the land.
• 43:57
  Lee: So, and you're right.
• 43:58
  Lee: I mean, all of us are sensing that there.
• 44:00
  Lee: Is a chance that that could be revisited, which means then that it will go back to the states to determine whether or not they want to support it.
• 44:06
  Lee: And here in Texas, of course, it's still on the books that a marriage would be between a man and a woman.
• 44:12
  Lee: But wasn't it at least part of that decision decided?
• 44:17
  Lee: Um, and I can't remember the term that they use to make sure that that cannot be overturned.
• 44:23
  Lee: That marriages that each state has to recognize marriages by that were legally done in other states.
• 44:30
  Lee: So in other words, so Brett and I were married in Minnesota, and Minnesota does allow uh people of the same gender to get married.
• 44:36
  Lee: So Texas would have to recognize it.
• 44:38
  Lee: I can't remember.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_06: I think at the very I I don't understand what you're asking that.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_06: I don't under normal circumstances, I would say that they may be able to prevent marriage equality recognition of new marriages going forward at some point if it changed.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_06: But those prior to that and those coming from other states would remain stable.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_06: But these are not normal times.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_06: Right, exactly.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_06: I think it has been shown that there are those in political positions that will do whatever they want, whenever they want, and everything else be damned.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_06: But yes, uh to your point, even if the Supreme Court changed it theoretically, current marriages would continue to be recognized, and marriages from states that did recognize it should be recognized.
• 45:21
  Lee: There's a term for that.
• 45:22
  Lee: And if they would have codified the whole thing, that would be it would be done.
• 45:25
  Lee: But they did not do that.
• 45:27
  Lee: And that that's a wrong term for what they uh actually did.
• 45:29
  Lee: But so part of the decision was made uh where they can't turn it turn it back around for if you were married in a state that allows it.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_06: And and 2106 is still on the books in Texas, it it was never taken off, it's still sitting there waiting for permission to be used again.
• 45:47
  Lee: Right to go back to the states.
• 45:48
  Lee: Yeah.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_06: Anytime those if you ever study history, anytime someone says it should be state rights, that is code.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_06: Yes.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_06: That is code.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_06: Ask anybody in the civil rights movement, ask anybody in the queer movement with any knowledge of history, that is code, and it's never in our favor.
• 46:07
  Lee: Yeah, no, I totally agree.
• 46:09
  Lee: Totally agree.
• 46:10
  Lee: So kind of getting back to the subject of Lawrence versus Texas.
• 46:15
  Lee: Any any final thoughts on that?
• 46:18
  Lee: Uh something we haven't talked about yet that you think is important to know or remember?
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_06: I always want to take the time, and I mentioned it earlier, but I always want to take the time to to honor Tyrone Garner and John John Lawrence because these were not activists, these were just normal guys living their lives with their own trials and tribulations.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_06: And and and at any time, at any time in this process, from the first time I made phone call to the first time at the lawyer's office, to the first time their picture appeared on the front page of the chronicle, they could have said no and pled out.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_06: And never once did they even suggest walking this back.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_06: As bad as it got, and as much as sometimes they, you know, were struggling, they never once tried to back out.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_06: And that is remarkable.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_06: And they deserve all the props that they can get for that.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_06: And it's real easy, and you know, and you know, people focus on the legal aspect or the activist aspect, but the two that we forget sometimes are these two unsung heroes that did nothing other than say yes.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_06: And that was the most important part to just say yeah.
• 47:29
  Lee: Yeah, no, no, very your point is very well made, and you're absolutely right.
• 47:32
  Lee: At the very core of this whole thing, we tend to think of it as an event in our history, our shared history.
• 47:38
  Lee: However, as I said, at the very core, there are two people that thought they were just having a regular Thursday night that became something far different.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_06: Absolutely.
• 47:47
  Lee: Yes, yes, absolutely.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_06: Absolutely.
• 47:50
  Lee: That's off to them for sure.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_06: There's a uh play in LA called Texas Sodomy.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_06: I'll be going out in a couple of weeks to see it.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_06: I've not read it and I haven't seen it, but it's about Lawrence V, Texas, uh, and it focuses I I think a lot on John and Tyrone.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_06: So I'm looking forward to seeing that here in a couple of weeks.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_06: There is a uh movie that's already in production.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_06: The casting has already started uh about Lawrence v.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_06: Texas, a pretty major studio, so I'm pretty excited about that.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_06: They're gonna tell, hopefully, remind the world about John and Tyrone as well.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_06: So I'm looking forward to it.
• 48:24
  Lee: I have heard about that, and I would love to have you back on the show after you've seen it to get your thoughts on on how they did it.
• 48:31
  Lee: If I my understanding is correct, there's actually a character representing you.
• 48:36
  Lee: Uh yes, there is.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_06: Yes, there is.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_06: Uh-huh.
• 48:38
  Lee: Yeah, that's kind of cool.
• 48:39
  Lee: Is that going to be in both the play and the uh movie?
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_06: Yes.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_06: Two totally separate projects.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_06: Uh different writers, different producers, that kind of thing.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_06: But but yes, yes, my name will be in both.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_06: So that's kind of cool.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_06: That's good.
• 48:52
  Lee: Yeah, it is it's very cool.
• 48:53
  Lee: Very cool.
• 48:53
  Lee: Congratulations.
• 48:54
  Lee: I hate that the circumstance had to take place, but uh in the end, that some attention will be shined on it and you.
• 49:00
  Lee: So good for you.
• 49:01
  Lee: So if you would uh come back and then discuss them once you've seen them.
• 49:04
  Lee: Absolutely.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_06: Absolutely.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_06: I'll be I'll go see it on October 10th and uh looking forward to it.
• 49:09
  Lee: All right, I'll talk to you then in November.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_06: All right, Lee.
• 49:13
  Lee: Well, thank you for joining us today.
• 49:15
  Brett: All right, thank you, my friend.
• 49:17
  Brett: Hi there, this is Brett Cullum, and I am joined by author R.
• 49:21
  Brett: Lee Ingalls, and we are going to do the news wrap for Queer Voices, the episode that airs on October 7th, 2026.
• 49:29
  Brett: And we decided that this week we are gonna lead with the good news up front rather than bum you out right at the top.
• 49:35
  Brett: I know.
• 49:35
  Lee: I hear the news segments, and all they do is talk about all the bad news, and then have a story or two at the end that's kind of good news.
• 49:42
  Lee: So, yeah, I thought it might be a good idea to put the good news up front.
• 49:46
  Lee: So, first story we're gonna talk about is California, Governor Newsom enacted six new LGBTQ plus uh protections.
• 49:55
  Lee: Among other provisions, the laws protect transgender medical records from certain out-of-state and federal requests.
• 50:02
  Lee: That's a huge thing, which strengthen the resources for the LGBTQ college students, reduce insurance barriers to HIV prevention medication, addresses conversion therapy involving minors, and help with some veterans discharge because of sexual orientation or gender identity seeking upgrade discharge status.
• 50:23
  Lee: Whatever you think of the national politics, states remain considerably powerful to create tangible protections for the LGBTQ plus residents.
• 50:32
  Lee: And California is demonstrating that.
• 50:35
  Brett: Yeah, and it's it's kind of a conundrum here in Texas, because obviously we don't have a very supportive state government.
• 50:42
  Brett: We're really looking at the local governments to really do that.
• 50:44
  Lee: We have to whittle it down even further.
• 50:46
  Brett: Yeah, yeah.
• 50:47
  Brett: I mean, I know that there was the hero ordinance that was supposed to be passed in Houston, and it didn't quite get there across the finish line.
• 50:52
  Lee: But the most we can hope for are smaller islands within the state areas where we're protected.
• 50:57
  Lee: But yeah, so glad to see that there's still a lot of work that needs to be done.
• 51:01
  Brett: And well, here's kind of a fun one.
• 51:04
  Brett: You know, uh a television phenomenon is turning fictional activism into real-world help for people.
• 51:10
  Brett: The producers behind the gay hockey series, Heated Rivalry, which we talked about constantly for the last year, I think.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 51:17
  Brett: They announced that they are actually forming the Irena Foundation.
• 51:22
  Brett: Now, this is a nonprofit LGBTQIA plus mental well-being program for sports and the arts.
• 51:29
  Brett: And what is so funny about this is the Irena Foundation was actually inspired by the fictional foundation that the two hockey players founded in the books.
• 51:41
  Brett: So it seems like it's really kind of a fun idea.
• 51:44
  Brett: And the creators of Heated Rivalry said that they want to turn audiences' affection for the characters into meaningful assistance for real people.
• 51:51
  Brett: So that's kind of a neat way to do it.
• 51:54
  Brett: And, you know, I've always said that representation is so important.
• 51:57
  Brett: It can do so much to change attitudes.
• 52:00
  Brett: Heated rivalry did so much for our community in a weird way because it just gave us that visibility and that kind of romantic angle.
• 52:08
  Brett: You just didn't see that very often.
• 52:09
  Brett: No, no, you don't see that a lot.
• 52:11
  Lee: And and the fact that it was between two people of the same gender just made it all that much more a value to us.
• 52:18
  Lee: But uh, even people outside of our community really enjoyed the season.
• 52:22
  Lee: So yeah, no, they they're doing good.
• 52:23
  Lee: I'm glad to see they're doing this organization.
• 52:25
  Lee: Yeah.
• 52:27
  Lee: It was kind of fun to see.
• 52:28
  Lee: Yeah, another news story.
• 52:30
  Lee: Dr.
• 52:30
  Lee: Anthony Fauci was honored.
• 52:33
  Lee: His de decades of work fighting HIV AIDS, which I think that's long past due.
• 52:38
  Lee: But so Dr.
• 52:38
  Lee: Fauci received the International Role Model Award from Equality Forum for his work during the HIV AIDS epidemic.
• 52:46
  Lee: HIV AIDS activist Peter Staley presented the award.
• 52:50
  Lee: Uh, Fauci spoke movingly about the relationship he developed with the LGBTQ activists, including arguments and disagreements that eventually changed how the government researchers worked with affected communities.
• 53:03
  Lee: For those who remember those years, it's an important part of our history.
• 53:08
  Lee: Activists didn't simply protest government scientists.
• 53:11
  Lee: Eventually, activists and scientists learned to work together.
• 53:14
  Lee: They transformed HIV from a almost certain death sentence to a manageable chronic condition for people with access to treatment.
• 53:23
  Lee: And I remember those days.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 53:46
  Brett: And they really, the protesters really advanced the scientists.
• 53:50
  Brett: They made they put some pressure on them and started working with them to get them to release the therapies and drugs at a faster pace.
• 53:56
  Brett: So another kind of nice story is uh Georgia's first openly gay LGBTQIA plus member of Congress is going to be the Grand Marshal for Atlanta Pride.
• 54:07
  Brett: So newly sworn-in rep Eberton Blair Jr.
• 54:11
  Brett: was announced on September 29th as honorary Grand Marshal of the 2026 Atlanta Pride Festival.
• 54:18
  Brett: So Blair, he became Georgia's first openly LGBTQ member of Congress when he took office in September.
• 54:26
  Brett: And there's just something really cool about thinking about an openly LGBTQ plus Georgian who once would have no chance of serving openly in Congress.
• 54:36
  Brett: And now he's leading one of the South Largest Pride celebrations, which happens this month.
• 54:41
  Brett: It's going to be on Sunday, October 11th, 2026, starting at noon, because they always do a daytime parade in October because they're sensible and they know it's too hot in the summer.
• 54:50
  Lee: On September or October 11th, isn't that coming out day?
• 54:53
  Lee: Yes.
• 54:53
  Lee: Yeah.
• 54:54
  Lee: Okay.
• 54:54
  Brett: Yes.
• 54:54
  Brett: So it goes in with that.
• 54:56
  Lee: Yeah.
• 54:56
  Lee: Yeah.
• 54:57
  Lee: Yeah.
• 54:57
  Lee: Okay.
• 54:58
  Lee: And then another one, hundreds of thousands celebrated a piece of LGBTQ culture born during the AIDS crisis.
• 55:06
  Lee: The 43rd Folsom Street Fair filled San Francisco's Soma neighborhood on September 27th, with organizers estimating attendance as high as 400,000.
• 55:17
  Lee: The fair began in 1984 partly to protect the neighborhood's gay and leather community during both redevelopment pressures and the emergency emerging AIDS catastrophe.
• 55:28
  Lee: Today it remains a remarkably public celebration of the LGBTQ leather culture.
• 55:33
  Lee: What began partly as an act of community survival during the darkest periods of our gay history, it has survived and it's become one of the world's largest gatherings of its kind.
• 55:44
  Brett: Well, another kind of positive story.
• 55:46
  Brett: LGBTQ Plus youth specific 988 crisis services are back on September 30th.
• 55:53
  Brett: The National 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline, they restored their specialized press three service for LGBTQ youth.
• 56:01
  Brett: And this is 14 months after the Trump administration ended it in July 2025.
• 56:06
  Brett: So very important reinstating that.
• 56:09
  Lee: And then the Trump administration, this is not so good news, asks the Supreme Court to allow restrictions on transgender prisoners medical care.
• 56:17
  Lee: I mean, how could you do that?
• 56:18
  Lee: That's just I don't that totally makes me scratch my head and wonder why.
• 56:22
  Lee: So on September 29th, the Trump administration asked the Supreme Court to enforce restrictions on gender-affirming medical care.
• 56:30
  Lee: Treatment for the lower courts have blocked it.
• 56:33
  Brett: Well, that's the whole question is does somebody's transgender status change the government's obligation to provide medically necessary care?
• 56:40
  Brett: Yes.
• 56:40
  Brett: Some because that person is incarcerated.
• 56:42
  Lee: Yeah, it's an ad statement.
• 56:44
  Lee: So then here in Texas, coming back to the transgender rights uh issue, we're we're seriously struggling it with it.
• 56:51
  Lee: Yeah, you see the ads all the time.
• 56:52
  Lee: And it's surprising to me that some of the politicians, with for all the years that they've been in office, the one thing that they can point to that they actually did was preventing men from going into women's restrooms and preventing men from competing in women's sports.
• 57:06
  Lee: If that's all you've done in all those years, my goodness, what does that say about your your focus?
• 57:12
  Brett: Well, this week we would like to thank our guests to kick off Queer History Month.
• 57:15
  Brett: We had Jack Balensky, he told us about the flags coming back to the banner district along West Timer.
• 57:20
  Brett: So welcome back to that.
• 57:22
  Brett: And Lane Lewis revisited his participation in Lawrence versus Texas.
• 57:27
  Brett: Now, Queer Voices has been on KPFT over five decades, and the station needs support from listeners like you.
• 57:34
  Brett: Go over to KPFT.org and select donate.
• 57:37
  Brett: Thank you for listening.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_01: This has been Queer Voices, heard on KPFT Houston and as a podcast available from several podcasting sources.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_01: Check our webpage queervoices.org for more information.