Latest / Substack Writers Salon / From Six to Seven Figures: A Ghostwriter's Guide to Building a Luxury Freelance Business

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From Six to Seven Figures: A Ghostwriter's Guide to Building a Luxury Freelance Business · Substack Writers Salon

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SPEAKER_01: All right, and we are live.
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SPEAKER_01: Hi, everyone, and thank you for joining us for another Substack Live.
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SPEAKER_01: I have with me today a legend.
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SPEAKER_01: Her name is Amy Souto.
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SPEAKER_01: She is all over Substack.
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SPEAKER_01: I'm going to read her bio.
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Amy Souto is a best-selling author and a seven-figure freelance
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memoir ghostwriter.
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SPEAKER_01: She runs the Substack bestseller,
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SPEAKER_01: How to Make,
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SPEAKER_01: Writing Your Job,
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SPEAKER_01: and other publications as well.
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SPEAKER_01: And I'm so excited to have you here with me, Amy.
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I was surprised that you actually accepted my invitation since
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I'm a small fish compared to you.
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But I'm so excited and I have so many questions and I'm sure
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that the audience are
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SPEAKER_01: really excited to chat with you.
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SPEAKER_01: I mean, you already have...
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10 people joining us live and for anyone who's watching us
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please feel free to ask
0:56
SPEAKER_01: us questions to learn from the master herself Amy so Amy
1:02
SPEAKER_01: Thanks again.
1:02
I think my first question is the bio is the seven-figure
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freelance memoir ghostwriter.
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SPEAKER_01: I'm going to focus on the seven-figure part.
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SPEAKER_01: The majority of solopreneurs who do writing for a living like myself,
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SPEAKER_01: their ultimate goal is being a six-figure freelance writer.
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So how did you achieve the status of the seven-figure freelance
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memoir ghostwriter?
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SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
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so I came out with a book a few years ago that was all about
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six-figure freelance
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SPEAKER_00: writing and kind of how to hit that goal.
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SPEAKER_00: And I think you become a six-figure freelance writer by really,
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SPEAKER_00: you know,
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SPEAKER_00: mastering the basics,
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SPEAKER_00: understanding what is your niche,
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SPEAKER_00: what is the value you bring to clients,
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SPEAKER_00: like how do you pitch yourself,
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SPEAKER_00: and just getting the fundamentals down.
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And then I think you jump from six-figure to seven-figure
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freelance writer by going
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SPEAKER_00: from a really,
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really great freelance writer to branding yourself as a luxury
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freelance writer.
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SPEAKER_00: And that kind of shift all comes in mindset.
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SPEAKER_00: It comes in salesmanship and it comes in branding.
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SPEAKER_00: And so that is the shift.
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SPEAKER_00: It's not necessarily a big skills jump.
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SPEAKER_00: I think this is the common misconception a lot of freelancers have.
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They're like,
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if I want to go from six figures to seven figures,
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I have to become Shakespeare.
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And that's not necessarily true because it's like when people
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are looking to hire
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SPEAKER_00: freelancers,
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SPEAKER_00: it's not just about skill.
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It's about,
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you know,
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how is your customer service skills with your client?
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SPEAKER_00: Do they feel like they're getting something really special?
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SPEAKER_00: The presentation is just as important as the package.
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And that's something that a lot of us kind of forget because
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we're craftsmen.
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SPEAKER_00: Like you and I, Natasha, like we are writers.
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SPEAKER_00: We care about the written word.
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SPEAKER_00: We care about how it impacts people.
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SPEAKER_00: But the clients, they care about that, like, like,
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SPEAKER_00: Does this feel special and interesting?
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SPEAKER_00: Does this freelancer feel like they know what they're talking about?
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SPEAKER_00: And the branding,
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that part of it is something that it kind of comes in that flip
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of the switch of
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SPEAKER_00: I'm not just an artist.
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SPEAKER_00: I'm not just a writer.
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SPEAKER_00: I'm also an entrepreneur.
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And that's kind of like the part of freelancing where it's like
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we cringe sometimes
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SPEAKER_00: with art and commerce.
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SPEAKER_00: And we're like, oh, these two things should not be mixed.
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But if you want to make money from being a freelancer and you
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want to be valued for
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the skills that you've been cultivating and be valued for your
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art and also have
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SPEAKER_00: time to do your own art.
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SPEAKER_00: You have to cultivate the entrepreneurship side of things.
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So you're saying that to go to a six-figure or a seven-figure
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freelance writer or a
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SPEAKER_01: solopreneur,
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the focus should be on learning business skills rather than
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technical skills like
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SPEAKER_01: writing skills or other.
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SPEAKER_01: Or marketing skill or digital marketing skills, client acquisition.
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SPEAKER_01: So is that how you...
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SPEAKER_01: moved from actually six figure to seven figure?
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SPEAKER_01: Did you double down on your business skills or how did that happen?
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SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00: And from the jump,
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what I realized is that I had spent a long time kind of like
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coming up in Hollywood
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SPEAKER_00: as a TV writer.
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SPEAKER_00: So I was like,
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SPEAKER_00: I know my writing is good,
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SPEAKER_00: but when I was getting started as a freelance writer,
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SPEAKER_00: I'm like,
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SPEAKER_00: and I was seeing interest from clients and it was pretty great.
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But what I saw is that some of the biggest jumps that I made in
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my career in terms
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SPEAKER_00: of income from freelance writing,
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SPEAKER_00: especially when I was starting to hit those
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those like those six-figure years was you know that i'll bring
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it back to one
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moment where i had like a pretty bad wordpress website i
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designed it myself i was
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using a template it didn't look very good it looked fine i had
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like a blog on there
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and things like that um but then my partner kyle took one look
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at it it's like
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maybe you should upgrade this like you should you should
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upgrade this and i didn't
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have very much money to spend on a website designer so i'm
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really nervous i'm like
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SPEAKER_00: I don't know if I should do this,
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but I think I'm going to take a leap and just try and see if
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this will help.
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SPEAKER_00: And I spent what then felt like an ungodly amount of money.
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SPEAKER_00: I spent money on the website design.
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SPEAKER_00: I spent money on the headshots.
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SPEAKER_00: And like, I think I spent somewhere between like $3,000 to $5,000.
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SPEAKER_00: And I was just like, oh no, what if this doesn't
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pan out like what if i made this investment in my business and
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it doesn't do
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anything for me and that helped rocket me from four thousand
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dollar months to my
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first fifty thousand dollar month and the difference between a
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website design like
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was huge because when clients are trying to figure out i'm
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going to make an
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investment in a freelancer are they worth it they're taking in
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a lot of different
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pieces of your work they're they need to seek a portfolio the
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writing skills have
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SPEAKER_00: to be there but they also need to feel like you're a premium writer
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And that's kind of like the branding component is like just in
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the same way that
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SPEAKER_00: like if you're going to buy a new car,
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SPEAKER_00: you're not just going to buy a car that like runs well.
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Like you're also influenced by the brand and the company and
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like the type of like
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SPEAKER_00: like the person that is selling you the car also like the salesman.
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So there's all of these decisions that go into like a
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purchasing decision.
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and why you buy hokas instead of an off-brand shoe,
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or a Nikes instead of something else.
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SPEAKER_00: Branding is really important in the freelance writing space,
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and we don't fully realize it until we step into the minds of
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our ideal clients.
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SPEAKER_00: Huh.
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SPEAKER_01: I think you buried the lead here.
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SPEAKER_01: You're saying the minute you updated your website,
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your monthly income increased from $5,000 a month to $30,000 a
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month just by
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SPEAKER_01: updating your website?
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SPEAKER_00: Yeah, $50,000.
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SPEAKER_00: From $4,000 to $50,000 a month.
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SPEAKER_00: And that was a huge jump that I made.
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SPEAKER_00: And it was over a period of time,
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but it was mostly in part the biggest change that I made from
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those two points was
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SPEAKER_00: my website.
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SPEAKER_00: And that was crazy to me because I was like,
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SPEAKER_00: oh,
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SPEAKER_00: maybe this expensive project that I'm embarking on to redo my branding.
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SPEAKER_00: Maybe.
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SPEAKER_00: Maybe it'll pan out.
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SPEAKER_00: Maybe I'll get some bigger jobs.
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SPEAKER_00: And I got a ton of work, a ton of jobs from that small change.
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SPEAKER_00: There were some other things that I did too,
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SPEAKER_00: but that was like the biggest thing,
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SPEAKER_00: the biggest project that I did in terms of branding.
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SPEAKER_00: And so when freelance writers are like trying to,
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SPEAKER_00: they're like,
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SPEAKER_00: okay,
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SPEAKER_00: how do I land the high paying clients?
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SPEAKER_00: it comes to not only doing the fundamentals well,
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SPEAKER_00: so like having a website,
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SPEAKER_00: having a portfolio,
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SPEAKER_00: having good cover letters,
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SPEAKER_00: but it's also how can you add a little bit of shine to that?
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SPEAKER_00: What do your ideal clients want to see from you?
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SPEAKER_00: And how can you really just like figure out like,
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SPEAKER_00: oh,
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SPEAKER_00: I can take this up a little bit of a notch.
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SPEAKER_00: You don't have to go crazy in the beginning,
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SPEAKER_00: but like once you have the fundamentals,
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SPEAKER_00: then you can start to play with like really kind of adding that,
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like the extra pieces of branding that will make things feel
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really high end for
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SPEAKER_00: you as a freelance writer.
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SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01: That's fascinating.
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So in addition to the website,
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how do you maintain a constant flow of clients?
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I talk to a lot of freelancers and this idea of famine or feast
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and client
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SPEAKER_01: acquisition is like the bane of existence for many of us,
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SPEAKER_01: including myself.
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SPEAKER_01: So do you do outreach via LinkedIn or Sales Navigator?
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Or are you at a point where just clients come to you and you
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just turn them down?
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And how did you start and how did you reach that point if
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that's the case?
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SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00: So I'm really lucky that in this stage of my career,
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SPEAKER_00: I have more clients than I can possibly take on reaching out to me.
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SPEAKER_00: And I'll explain how I built that in a minute.
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And that's part of the reason why I even started Make Writing
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Your Job and the
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SPEAKER_00: Writing Job Board is because clients were coming to me and I'm like,
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SPEAKER_00: this is not a right fit for me.
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SPEAKER_00: This is not like you're not looking to hire me.
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SPEAKER_00: But they're like, but who can you recommend?
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And I'm like,
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oh,
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well,
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I have an amazing community of writers on Substack.
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Let me just share your job with them and then just forward you
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whoever applies.
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SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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That's what kind of kicked off the job board is because I get
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calls from clients
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SPEAKER_00: like three to four times a day and they're like,
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SPEAKER_00: please help me.
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SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I'm not sure girl, but I know some great writers who are.
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And so that's kind of what started the job board and why we're
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able to connect
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writers with really cool jobs because these clients who are
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hiring them are
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SPEAKER_00: ghostwriters are not looking on LinkedIn.
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they don't know how to post a freelance job they're not on the
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platforms and so
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that's part of the reason why i started that because i'm like
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oh perfect i can help
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people but in order like if you're a new like if there's
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somebody who's watching
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who's a new freelancer and they're like how do i get clients
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like how do i break
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out of the feast or famine cycle then it does start with this
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kind of like
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beginning process of a massive amount of just outreach and this
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is like the unfun
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SPEAKER_00: part of the beginning like part of your career
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Where you probably are on these freelancing platforms like
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Upwork and Contra,
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you are probably subscribed to a writing job board like mine or
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some of the other
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SPEAKER_00: ones out there.
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And you should be just getting in the reps and submitting to
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job after job after job.
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And this can feel like this is the most challenging part of
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freelance writing and
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SPEAKER_00: where most freelancers fail because...
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SPEAKER_00: There are sending out jobs and they're like our job,
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SPEAKER_00: you know,
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applications to different freelancing jobs and they're not
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hearing back or they're
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SPEAKER_00: getting some low paying jobs.
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They're like,
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I don't understand why I'm not,
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you know,
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why writing isn't my job yet.
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SPEAKER_00: And so this is the part you have to muscle through.
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SPEAKER_00: And if you're not landing jobs as a freelance writer,
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it could be because your portfolio doesn't have the right
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samples for the types of
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SPEAKER_00: jobs that you want to land and.
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SPEAKER_00: It could be because when you're hopping on discovery calls,
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you're not kind of customizing your pitch to that particular
9:54
client and really kind
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SPEAKER_00: of understanding the client's needs.
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It could be because you just like miss the job by a day and
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they already hired somebody.
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And so there's so many factors that come into just like getting
10:04
past that early stage.
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But once you start building the momentum and clients start
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working with you and
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then they keep hiring you or they refer you to other people or
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the momentum just
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SPEAKER_00: builds,
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SPEAKER_00: then it's like a runaway ship.
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Then you become overbooked and have to keep raising your rates
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to be able to scare away clients.
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SPEAKER_00: And that's where everybody wants to be.
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SPEAKER_00: And then the other piece of this is...
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if for especially for memoir ghostwriters and other freelancers
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where it's like
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there isn't a lot of like referrals in between like clients
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because you're all you
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know you're a ghostwriter you're anonymous then you have to
10:37
really double down on
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building things like your website and your portfolio and your
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your freelancing
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presence and i i'll be honest i've never had success cold
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emailing a client to hire
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me as a memoir ghostwriter i've only gotten inbound leads
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because i find that if i
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SPEAKER_00: reach out to somebody i'm like hey you should write a memoir they're like
10:55
SPEAKER_00: No, thank you.
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SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't want that.
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SPEAKER_00: Or even some of the people that I connected with,
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like one thing that I did is that I reached out to every single
11:03
entrepreneur who
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SPEAKER_00: has ever been on Shark Tank.
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SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, you might want a memoir.
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And I had some great calls with some of like my idol
11:09
entrepreneurs that were on Shark Tank.
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SPEAKER_00: And I love that show.
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SPEAKER_00: But none of them were in a position where they wanted a memoir.
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SPEAKER_00: They felt like they were too young.
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SPEAKER_00: And so I found that for memoirs,
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you've got to put yourself out there as a memoir ghostwriter
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and have and be
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SPEAKER_00: findable for people to find you,
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SPEAKER_00: whether that's posting on LinkedIn.
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SPEAKER_00: For me,
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website SEO is something that is huge and something that I'm
11:29
going to cover in a
11:29
SPEAKER_00: class on my Substack at some point.
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SPEAKER_00: But I think it's really about creating ways for clients to find you.
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The one way that I did find a lot of clients when I was a
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freelance copywriter was
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SPEAKER_00: cold outreach.
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SPEAKER_00: And cold outreach does work for content writing,
11:44
SPEAKER_00: copywriting jobs,
11:45
SPEAKER_00: and things like that,
11:46
SPEAKER_00: where there's a lot of companies that just need copy and content done,
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SPEAKER_00: and they need a great Substack Ghostwriter.
11:51
SPEAKER_00: They need a great team member to jump in.
11:54
SPEAKER_00: So sometimes outreach does work,
11:56
and there are different tools that you can use to make cold
11:58
outreach easier on you
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SPEAKER_00: as a freelance writer,
12:00
SPEAKER_00: but it is still definitely a challenging part of the job.
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That's why I think it's really important for writers to build
12:06
nets to bring in
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SPEAKER_00: incoming clients and to be able to build referrals to
12:10
so that you can just like have the leads come in and just hang
12:12
out and not have to
12:13
do any prospecting so what are the tools for code outreach yes
12:20
so one of the tools
12:21
that i used quite a bit was called growth list if you're in the
12:23
tech niche and so
12:25
back when i was doing tech copywriting and content writing um i
12:28
would use this tool
12:29
called growth list and we just get the emails every single week
12:31
of every ceo who
12:33
SPEAKER_00: has ever raised money like in the last five days
12:36
SPEAKER_00: And then you just cold email those people.
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SPEAKER_00: And there's different cold email software solutions.
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Now it's going to be different because I haven't done this in a
12:44
while since I'm not
12:45
SPEAKER_00: in copywriting anymore.
12:46
SPEAKER_00: But back when I was in freelance copywriting,
12:48
SPEAKER_00: I was able to scale to,
12:50
SPEAKER_00: I think in copywriting,
12:51
SPEAKER_00: like $350 and then eventually $750 an hour.
12:54
with these copywriting clients that I cold emailed because they
12:57
had just raised a
12:58
SPEAKER_00: bunch of money,
12:58
SPEAKER_00: they were working in tech,
12:59
SPEAKER_00: and they needed a copywriter,
13:01
SPEAKER_00: a content writer,
13:02
or a newsletter ghostwriter for the different platforms that
13:05
they had to suddenly
13:06
SPEAKER_00: make a ton of copywriting for.
13:07
SPEAKER_00: I did a lot of LinkedIn ghostwriting too.
13:09
SPEAKER_00: And these CEOs know that now more than ever,
13:13
SPEAKER_00: they need constant amounts of content pushed out everywhere.
13:16
SPEAKER_00: And while some writers use AI to kind of help with this,
13:19
SPEAKER_00: like creating this content,
13:21
SPEAKER_00: it still has to have like a human writer
13:24
SPEAKER_00: Thinking in strategically about how to capture the founder's voice,
13:27
SPEAKER_00: how to put out the right messaging.
13:29
SPEAKER_00: So the copywriting and content writing jobs that are out there,
13:32
SPEAKER_00: if you're able to lend a little bit of strategy to your ghostwriting,
13:35
SPEAKER_00: you're going to be such,
13:37
SPEAKER_00: you're going to be like,
13:37
SPEAKER_00: you're going to have so much work.
13:39
You're going to be able to charge so much and have so much work
13:41
because there's
13:42
SPEAKER_00: such a high demand right now for ghostwriters.
13:44
especially in the tech space where these founders are just
13:46
like,
13:47
please help me.
13:47
SPEAKER_00: I raised like $15 million.
13:50
SPEAKER_00: I just need to hire like a ton of ghostwriters to just write my LinkedIn,
13:53
SPEAKER_00: just write my Twitter,
13:54
SPEAKER_00: just write my substack.
13:56
SPEAKER_00: That's a good tip.
13:57
SPEAKER_00: It's called growth reach.
14:00
SPEAKER_00: Oh, GrowthList.
14:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, GrowthList.
14:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's so many other tools out there, too.
14:05
SPEAKER_00: GrowthList is the one that just sends you the list of emails.
14:09
SPEAKER_00: And they're great.
14:10
SPEAKER_00: And the founder is also really great of GrowthList, too.
14:13
SPEAKER_00: So there's a lot of tools like that where,
14:15
SPEAKER_00: depending on your niche and your industry,
14:17
SPEAKER_00: you can just get lists of emails and figure out who to email and be like,
14:21
SPEAKER_00: hey,
14:23
SPEAKER_00: I'm a writer.
14:23
SPEAKER_00: I like your company.
14:24
SPEAKER_00: Let's hang out.
14:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
14:27
SPEAKER_01: So I'm curious about how you got into memoir ghostwriting specifically.
14:33
And I have to admit,
14:34
I got a bit of a FOMO watching,
14:38
looking at your Instagram.
14:39
SPEAKER_01: I'm in Italy because my client's in me there.
14:41
SPEAKER_01: I was like, who are these clients?
14:43
SPEAKER_01: That flyer all over the world.
14:46
SPEAKER_01: Like, how did you get...
14:48
SPEAKER_01: How did you get into ghostwriting,
14:50
SPEAKER_01: memoir ghostwriting,
14:51
and how did you find these clients that are actually willing to
14:55
pay you to see them
14:56
SPEAKER_01: instead of doing it via Zoom,
14:58
SPEAKER_01: for example?
14:59
SPEAKER_01: And I'm just curious how that happened.
15:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
15:04
so these clients find me through the same channels that they're
15:07
better available to
15:08
SPEAKER_00: everybody.
15:08
SPEAKER_00: So Contra and Upwork and other platforms and also through my website.
15:13
And so this is why as a freelancer is so important to make
15:16
yourself findable.
15:18
SPEAKER_00: And when I say findable, I mean treating everything like a search engine.
15:22
SPEAKER_00: And so a lot of people look at,
15:24
SPEAKER_00: you know,
15:24
SPEAKER_00: freelance platforms like Upwork or their website and being like,
15:26
SPEAKER_00: this is just where I put my work.
15:28
That's kind of like the first way when you're just getting
15:30
started to think about these.
15:31
SPEAKER_00: But eventually you have to think about
15:33
SPEAKER_00: LinkedIn,
15:34
SPEAKER_00: Upwork,
15:35
SPEAKER_00: Comtra,
15:36
any platform you are on as a freelance ghostwriter or freelance
15:39
writer as a place
15:40
where somebody can find you and work with you and understand
15:43
what you specialize
15:44
SPEAKER_00: in.
15:44
So putting freelance memoir ghostwriter at the top of your
15:47
LinkedIn profile,
15:48
SPEAKER_00: making sure that like maybe even adding it to like your name,
15:51
there's so many different like sections that you can make sure
15:53
you have the
15:54
SPEAKER_00: keyword.
15:55
what you do and some freelancers specialize in freelance memoir
15:59
or freelance
15:59
business book ghost writing or you know whatever you specialize
16:02
in making sure you
16:03
understand the key word that you're going after and putting
16:05
that everywhere and
16:06
trade like because when you're putting yourself in the shoes of
16:09
your ideal clients
16:10
they're going to be searching on google or or wherever i even
16:14
had one of the
16:14
clients who posted on the job board found me and us through
16:18
chashi bt yeah
16:19
SPEAKER_00: They were searching on GPT for freelance armor ghostwriters,
16:23
SPEAKER_00: and they hire somebody from our job board.
16:24
SPEAKER_00: And so it's like people find ghostwriters from all different places.
16:28
SPEAKER_00: And the goal here is to be findable and to also not just be findable,
16:32
but put your best foot forward on the Internet in a way of
16:35
personal branding.
16:36
And the reason why I've had clients fly me out to places like
16:39
Vienna and Canada and
16:42
be able to meet their families and their business associates
16:45
and have these really
16:46
incredible experiences is because my branding is very on point
16:50
for what they're
16:50
SPEAKER_00: looking for and unfindable.
16:52
SPEAKER_00: And I think that that's the one thing that a lot of writers,
16:55
SPEAKER_00: we have a million different things to do as freelancers.
16:58
SPEAKER_00: We have to build our portfolio.
16:59
SPEAKER_00: We have to set up client meetings.
17:00
SPEAKER_00: We have to do outreach.
17:01
SPEAKER_00: It can feel like everything is just requiring our attention.
17:05
And it can be hard to focus on the thing that will bring
17:07
clients to us rather than
17:09
SPEAKER_00: us having to constantly go find them.
17:11
SPEAKER_00: And part of that is building a great website with SEO,
17:15
SPEAKER_00: building up our freelance platforms,
17:16
our social media platforms with that SEO in mind to make us
17:21
findable and trying to
17:22
SPEAKER_00: figure out like,
17:22
SPEAKER_00: where are my ideal clients hanging out?
17:25
SPEAKER_00: Where are they looking for their perfect fit freelance writer?
17:28
And how can I put myself right in front of them and be
17:31
everywhere in front of them?
17:32
SPEAKER_00: And that's the thing that I figured out.
17:34
SPEAKER_00: And I'm going to continue to teach how I've done that on my substand.
17:37
SPEAKER_00: But I think that it is the hard work.
17:40
SPEAKER_00: And it's taken me time to learn how to do that.
17:42
And that's why I'm trying to distill these frameworks for other
17:44
people to learn
17:44
SPEAKER_00: much faster than the way that I did.
17:46
Because it's so much better when you're able to go from just
17:49
prospecting to being
17:50
SPEAKER_00: able to have clients just find you directly.
17:54
SPEAKER_01: And why memoir ghostwriting?
17:57
SPEAKER_01: How did you get into memoir ghostwriting specifically?
18:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it was kind of on accident.
18:02
So I started at the beginning of my career,
18:05
I was just doing blogs for one of my clients.
18:07
SPEAKER_00: And they were like,
18:09
SPEAKER_00: oh,
18:09
SPEAKER_00: like,
18:09
SPEAKER_00: you know,
18:10
SPEAKER_00: you've written all these blogs about my life story,
18:13
SPEAKER_00: like,
18:13
SPEAKER_00: why not just turn them into a memoir?
18:15
SPEAKER_00: And so I kind of like fell into it.
18:17
SPEAKER_00: And then from there, I started doing several other memoirs.
18:20
SPEAKER_00: I went to
18:21
SPEAKER_00: You know,
18:21
one of my clients family reunion on this like beautiful like
18:25
vineyard and like
18:25
where she like found out her father was not her biological
18:28
father and brought in
18:28
SPEAKER_00: her new family.
18:29
And then I was there in the middle interviewing everybody while
18:31
there were tears
18:32
SPEAKER_00: and people being confused and fighting.
18:34
SPEAKER_00: I was like,
18:34
SPEAKER_00: but it was also a beautiful moment because people like,
18:36
SPEAKER_00: wait a minute,
18:36
SPEAKER_00: this is so incredible.
18:37
SPEAKER_00: And so I love the drama of memoir ghostwriting.
18:41
I love the fact that you're being put in a story that is just
18:44
unfolding all around you.
18:46
I love the being able to help capture a story for somebody who
18:51
can't write and who
18:52
SPEAKER_00: can't put it together or can't see themselves clearly.
18:54
And I think that the art of memoir ghostwriting is that you as
18:57
the ghostwriter are
18:58
able to be that second opinion and be the truly unbiased reader
19:02
for your client and
19:04
SPEAKER_00: be like,
19:04
SPEAKER_00: hey,
19:05
I think your story needs to be presented like this so that your
19:07
audience will
19:08
SPEAKER_00: really absorb it better.
19:09
And anyone who's writing a memoir knows that if you are writing
19:13
the memoir
19:13
SPEAKER_00: yourself,
19:14
SPEAKER_00: you are so biased.
19:15
SPEAKER_00: You're so caught up in your own thoughts.
19:17
SPEAKER_00: You need that other person,
19:18
SPEAKER_00: whether it's a ghostwriter or even just a good editor,
19:21
SPEAKER_00: you need to have that person to help you because otherwise,
19:24
SPEAKER_00: who knows what people will find interesting about your life.
19:27
SPEAKER_00: So having that extra partner is so key.
19:29
And I also bring my background from being a TV writer in
19:32
Hollywood to ghostwriting
19:33
SPEAKER_00: and adding the structure that is needed to
19:36
SPEAKER_00: turn books into not just like a rambling story of somebody's life,
19:39
SPEAKER_00: but something that is a page turner and that's compelling,
19:42
SPEAKER_00: that has that really great story structure.
19:46
okay so do you think ghostwriting is is it is it your biggest
19:52
income stream or what
19:53
is your biggest currency what is your biggest income stream yes
19:57
ghostwriting
19:57
absolutely and the reason why ghostwriting pays so much better
20:00
than so many other
20:01
niches is because a client is publishing a book because it's
20:05
going to lead to
20:06
SPEAKER_00: speaking gigs where it's hundreds of thousands of dollars it's
20:09
SPEAKER_00: It's going to be leading to them booking and coaching clients,
20:13
SPEAKER_00: them,
20:13
SPEAKER_00: you know,
20:13
SPEAKER_00: achieving their business goals.
20:15
Or there's someone at the end of their life looking back and
20:17
they're wanting to
20:18
SPEAKER_00: capture their legacy.
20:19
So ghostwriting for memoirs specifically is very lucrative
20:22
because people who are
20:23
SPEAKER_00: writing this,
20:24
SPEAKER_00: the value of a memoir is...
20:27
SPEAKER_00: Truly priceless.
20:28
And that's why memoir ghostwriters like you and I get paid so
20:32
much more than
20:33
SPEAKER_00: sometimes what,
20:34
SPEAKER_00: you know,
20:34
SPEAKER_00: back when I was a freelance copywriter,
20:36
SPEAKER_00: I was very well paid,
20:37
but it's different because copywriting is to help a business
20:40
reach an ROI of a
20:42
SPEAKER_00: goal.
20:43
memoir ghostwriting is to help somebody make sense of the
20:46
complexities of their
20:47
life story and also pass on their book for future generations
20:50
and so it's like very
20:51
different and very beautiful and also it's hard to kind of say
20:54
like you know this
20:56
is a book that is successful and i i judge success for a memoir
21:01
as not only
21:01
something that will appeal to readers but it's also something
21:03
that will strike a
21:04
SPEAKER_00: chord emotionally with my client and feel like catharsis after we're done
21:08
And that's kind of a hard thing to track and a hard thing to
21:10
pull off because as
21:11
SPEAKER_00: ghostwriters,
21:11
SPEAKER_00: we also have to write in our clients' voices.
21:14
SPEAKER_00: And that's why this is such a lucrative career.
21:16
SPEAKER_00: It is something that is really hard to hire for for our clients.
21:20
And when they find the right person,
21:22
you know,
21:22
and then it's just like magic.
21:24
But I met so many people who've cycled through some clients
21:28
who've cycled through
21:28
multiple different freelance ghostwriters and are frustrated
21:30
because they can't
21:31
SPEAKER_00: find the right person.
21:32
um and and so it's like that's why i'm really excited to get
21:35
them to our job board
21:36
i'm like look at the amazing writers who are waiting for you
21:38
here on substack
21:39
because substack has the best writers true okay so how many um
21:45
projects do you
21:46
accept a year and how long does it take you to finish one
21:49
memoir and do you hire
21:50
SPEAKER_01: assist writing assistants to help you with all these projects
21:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
21:54
SPEAKER_00: So for me, it kind of depends on the year.
21:57
Like right now I have some developmental editing projects that
21:59
I'm finishing up.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: So those projects take up some time as well.
22:02
SPEAKER_00: But I don't like to take on more than a small handful of clients.
22:06
SPEAKER_00: And like I said, it kind of just depends year by year.
22:08
SPEAKER_00: And some projects are much bigger than others requiring travel.
22:11
And like sometimes I'll be like just given like a whole stack
22:14
of like work cases or
22:16
SPEAKER_00: I have clients to send me like boxes of books.
22:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:19
I'll just like open my front door and there's like four huge
22:21
boxes of like books
22:22
SPEAKER_00: that they want me to read.
22:23
SPEAKER_00: And so some things are very research heavy.
22:25
SPEAKER_00: Some things are lighter.
22:26
So I try to balance my schedule with having a little bit of a
22:29
lighter memoir and a
22:30
SPEAKER_00: little bit of a more kind of like challenging memoir.
22:33
SPEAKER_00: So I don't try to like stack them too much.
22:36
SPEAKER_00: I try to stagger my projects so that they start at different times.
22:40
SPEAKER_00: And then for me,
22:41
like I'm I like working like I like making sure that I'm the
22:44
one working on the
22:44
SPEAKER_00: draft.
22:45
I know other writers have like more of like an agency set up
22:47
where they have a
22:48
SPEAKER_00: whole team around it.
22:49
But for me,
22:50
I really like having the intimacy of it being me and the
22:52
client.
22:53
And I think that that's also the fun part about being a memoir
22:56
ghostwriter is that
22:57
SPEAKER_00: you're kind of like part therapist,
22:59
SPEAKER_00: part creative,
23:00
SPEAKER_00: part hero.
23:00
SPEAKER_00: you know, all of these different roles.
23:02
And I think that that's such a cool space because I learn so
23:04
much from my clients
23:05
and I get to really experience these lives that are just like
23:08
really beautiful and
23:09
SPEAKER_00: different than my own.
23:11
And I think that that's kind of like the fun of the
23:13
ghostwriting is being able to
23:14
SPEAKER_00: step into somebody else's shoes and learn about their lives.
23:17
SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
23:19
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so you're like, what, two or three maybe each?
23:24
SPEAKER_00: It depends.
23:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it depends.
23:26
SPEAKER_00: It's hard to put a number on it because,
23:27
SPEAKER_00: like I said,
23:28
I'm finishing up this developmental edit that I was working on
23:30
this morning for
23:31
SPEAKER_00: this book that's beautiful,
23:32
SPEAKER_00: and I can actually share it.
23:33
SPEAKER_00: It's not a ghostwriting project, but I'm just doing edits.
23:36
SPEAKER_00: And it's...
23:37
SPEAKER_00: It's a beautiful story.
23:38
I don't want to get into it because I'm just going to like talk
23:40
about it for the
23:40
SPEAKER_00: rest of our time.
23:41
But so when I'm working on projects like that where I'm giving
23:44
the writer notes and
23:45
SPEAKER_00: those are that's more of a like I don't do that as much anymore.
23:48
SPEAKER_00: But I made an exception for this client.
23:49
SPEAKER_00: Their story is beautiful.
23:52
So I do a few developmental editing projects in between or in
23:55
addition to ghostwriting.
23:57
So it just depends on the year in terms of how many projects I
24:00
take on,
24:00
but very few.
24:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
24:03
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so I am curious about your Substack newsletter.
24:10
You have a lot of subscribers,
24:12
and you have,
24:13
I think,
24:13
1,000 paid subscribers from my research.
24:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and so how did you manage to build the Substack community?
24:23
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you mentioned your website, and how did you...
24:27
managed to transfer because your website was focused on clients
24:31
then how did you
24:32
you know build a community of writers on the side while you're
24:36
chasing clients
24:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
24:38
SPEAKER_00: So I've been posting on,
24:40
SPEAKER_00: I have like a blog on amysudo.com that I've been posting on for like,
24:44
SPEAKER_00: since I was like 12,
24:45
where I was writing about the journey of being a writer and
24:47
like kind of the
24:48
SPEAKER_00: background of being a writer.
24:49
And so that was like kind of my initial foray in writing about
24:51
writing and writing
24:52
SPEAKER_00: about this experience of being a freelance writer.
24:55
SPEAKER_00: And so I decided to move to Substack two years ago.
24:57
And I decided to make that jump because I really saw that on
25:02
Substack,
25:03
there wasn't quite
25:04
there wasn't a lot of like people talking really openly about
25:08
freelance writing and
25:09
what it's like to scale a freelance writing career to six and
25:11
seven figures.
25:12
SPEAKER_00: And,
25:12
SPEAKER_00: and I really wanted to kind of like shine a light on,
25:15
SPEAKER_00: on the part that nobody wants to talk about,
25:17
SPEAKER_00: which is like,
25:17
SPEAKER_00: how do you actually make writing your job?
25:19
SPEAKER_00: And,
25:20
the reason why we don't want to talk about it is because money
25:22
is taboo and it's
25:24
this kind of like experience with freelance writing where it's
25:26
like you know but
25:27
the thing that got me into freelance writing was this awesome
25:30
blog called the
25:31
freelancer's year um it was run by lindiana alexander and she's
25:34
a travel writer
25:35
incredible and what i love about the blog is that every month
25:38
she would post her
25:39
income report and she would share what she was making and that
25:42
actually got me into
25:43
SPEAKER_00: freelancing because i saw what was possible from her
25:46
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, oh, this is amazing.
25:47
SPEAKER_00: Like I can actually get aid from being a writer.
25:50
Like I don't have to go learn how to be a,
25:52
you know,
25:52
a developer or a coder.
25:54
SPEAKER_00: Like this is so cool.
25:55
SPEAKER_00: Or I don't have to go to law school.
25:57
And so I think that it was really important to me to hop on
25:59
Substack and share
26:00
SPEAKER_00: what's possible as a writer so that other people can see it's possible.
26:04
And it's so cool because it's like just yesterday I got an
26:07
email from somebody or a
26:08
SPEAKER_00: post on Substack that they tagged me in.
26:10
where they landed their first freelance writing job from the
26:13
writing job board.
26:14
SPEAKER_00: And that was so cool.
26:15
SPEAKER_00: And I get messages like that all the time.
26:17
And the reason why I built this community around freelance
26:21
writing and how to make
26:21
writing your job is because it's something that we there isn't
26:25
a lot of good up to
26:26
SPEAKER_00: date advice about what actually helps writers get work and get paid,
26:30
SPEAKER_00: and also not lose your soul.
26:32
SPEAKER_00: to also still stay in touch with our creative projects.
26:35
And I think that that's something that nobody is really like
26:38
fully kind of diving
26:39
SPEAKER_00: into in the way that I wanted to.
26:42
And then about nine months ago,
26:43
I made the writing job board,
26:46
which went live.
26:46
SPEAKER_00: And that was the thing that I was really excited that has been,
26:51
SPEAKER_00: you know,
26:51
SPEAKER_00: working so well for people.
26:52
SPEAKER_00: And it's been awesome to see people get their first memoir ghostwriting
26:55
SPEAKER_00: assignments,
26:55
SPEAKER_00: their first freelancing assignments,
26:56
SPEAKER_00: their first articles accepted by different publications.
26:59
SPEAKER_00: And so...
27:01
That has been like something I'm so grateful for because it
27:03
also allows me to help
27:04
the clients that are coming into me wanting help from writers
27:08
that I'm not a good
27:08
SPEAKER_00: fit for.
27:09
SPEAKER_00: And so it's kind of like this ecosystem that works out really well.
27:12
SPEAKER_00: And people found my Substack from my blog,
27:15
SPEAKER_00: from social media,
27:17
SPEAKER_00: and from like a bunch of different places,
27:19
SPEAKER_00: from LinkedIn.
27:20
And so I think that for people who are wanting to grow their
27:22
own Substack,
27:23
SPEAKER_00: it's about just putting yourself out there and building a personal brand.
27:26
And I know that that sounds icky sometimes when people are
27:29
like,
27:29
oh,
27:29
build your personal brand.
27:31
SPEAKER_00: And people aren't brands,
27:32
but we do have to figure out how to put ourselves out there in
27:35
a way that is,
27:37
SPEAKER_00: you know,
27:37
feels authentic to us and what we're able to offer people so we
27:40
can bring them into
27:41
SPEAKER_00: our roles and our communities.
27:43
SPEAKER_01: So there's a comment here from Joe says, love the right job board.
27:48
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for creating it.
27:50
SPEAKER_01: So I am a subscriber.
27:51
SPEAKER_01: I'm a paid subscriber to the job board and I love it.
27:56
SPEAKER_01: So since I'm a journalist, I'm going to play the devil's advocate here.
27:59
SPEAKER_01: So buckle up.
28:00
SPEAKER_01: So I applied to job boards.
28:04
I'm subscribed to yours and another one which is like focused
28:07
on the Middle East
28:08
SPEAKER_01: because I was originally born there and I have a lot of contacts there.
28:13
SPEAKER_01: What I notice is, and I heard that criticism before, is that...
28:18
SPEAKER_01: many people apply to these jobs.
28:20
SPEAKER_01: So your chances,
28:23
especially if these job boards keep growing and growing and
28:27
attracting more
28:28
SPEAKER_01: subscribers,
28:29
then one job would get thousands of applicants and your chances
28:33
becomes really
28:34
SPEAKER_01: lower than if you use referral methods or outreach.
28:41
SPEAKER_01: So sometimes I think to myself, what is my time best spent
28:46
responding to a job board or doing cold outreach to a client
28:51
that I think would
28:52
SPEAKER_01: benefit from my services.
28:54
SPEAKER_01: So I am in this dilemma and I reached the place,
28:56
SPEAKER_01: if there is any job board,
28:58
SPEAKER_01: like they say,
28:59
SPEAKER_01: test or no,
29:00
SPEAKER_01: I'm not going to do any tests.
29:01
First of all,
29:01
I feel like I'm too senior for tests and I don't have the time
29:05
for that.
29:06
SPEAKER_01: So most of the tests are unpaid anyways.
29:09
SPEAKER_01: So what are your thoughts about this devil's advice?
29:13
And Natasha,
29:15
you're totally on the money with not accepting paid test tasks.
29:18
SPEAKER_00: I think that paid or sorry, unpaid test tasks.
29:21
SPEAKER_00: Even sometimes paid test tasks.
29:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:24
If it's a test task and the client's unsure about you and they
29:26
haven't read your
29:27
SPEAKER_00: portfolio,
29:27
SPEAKER_00: it's like it's yeah,
29:29
SPEAKER_00: I'm totally with you.
29:30
SPEAKER_00: I think that when it comes to being freelance writers,
29:32
SPEAKER_00: we have to be careful about how our energy is spent.
29:34
SPEAKER_00: And I think you're totally right with that.
29:36
I think that when it comes to,
29:38
you know,
29:39
where do you apply to different things?
29:41
Like when I was getting started as a freelance writer and even
29:44
when I was kind of
29:44
SPEAKER_00: like mid-career as a freelance writer,
29:46
SPEAKER_00: I would apply to 40,
29:49
SPEAKER_00: 50,
29:49
SPEAKER_00: 60,
29:49
70 jobs a day.
29:49
And I had like my different frameworks,
29:51
the different things that I would do.
29:52
Like I had like a system and then I would stop the moment that
29:56
I was fully booked
29:57
SPEAKER_00: up with clients.
29:57
SPEAKER_00: I would completely stop my outreach and then I was fully booked up.
30:00
And I would do that again and again until I and then when I had
30:03
too many clients,
30:04
SPEAKER_00: I would just raise my rates.
30:05
And so I think that it depends on like what your system is to
30:09
to being able to
30:10
SPEAKER_00: bring clients into your world,
30:11
SPEAKER_00: because at the same time that I was doing outreach,
30:13
SPEAKER_00: I was also building my personal website,
30:15
creating ways to be found by my clients so that at this point I
30:18
don't do any cold
30:19
SPEAKER_00: outreach.
30:20
SPEAKER_00: I do not reach out to clients whatsoever.
30:21
SPEAKER_00: They just find me.
30:22
SPEAKER_00: And so I think as a freelancer,
30:24
we have this like these stages of our careers where we're
30:27
trying to figure out
30:28
SPEAKER_00: where is my time best spent?
30:29
And I think that job boards are great in some ways because
30:33
often a lot of clients
30:34
SPEAKER_00: who are hiring,
30:35
SPEAKER_00: they're looking for something specific,
30:36
especially in the memoir ghostwriting space or the
30:38
developmental editing space.
30:40
SPEAKER_00: A lot of the jobs that I feature on the job board,
30:42
SPEAKER_00: like we had a speech ghostwriting job recently,
30:44
SPEAKER_00: and that client is looking for something very specific.
30:47
SPEAKER_00: And so even though there might be a good chunk of writers who apply,
30:50
SPEAKER_00: they,
30:51
SPEAKER_00: you know,
30:51
SPEAKER_00: you might be the perfect writer for this assignment.
30:54
And it's also a personality fit with a lot of the ghostwriting
30:57
work out there is
30:58
that the client wants to work with somebody whose personality
31:00
they mesh with and
31:01
SPEAKER_00: who they like.
31:02
SPEAKER_00: And so there's so many factors that go into hiring,
31:05
SPEAKER_00: especially for ghostwriting,
31:06
SPEAKER_00: both for Substack ghostwriting,
31:08
SPEAKER_00: Speak ghostwriting,
31:08
SPEAKER_00: things like that.
31:09
that I think that you kind of have to just get as many shots at
31:12
the goal as
31:13
possible with jobs that feel like they're the right fit and
31:17
just kind of see what
31:18
SPEAKER_00: happens.
31:18
And so I know that that like is an unfortunate part of like the
31:21
job of like
31:22
SPEAKER_00: building up like that client roster.
31:24
And I think that that's kind of like the price of admission is
31:26
like just like submitting a ton.
31:28
And I think that like that is like part of the process that
31:31
people don't like to
31:32
SPEAKER_00: talk about because it's not glamorous.
31:34
SPEAKER_00: And I think that that's like, I totally understand.
31:36
And so it's about trying to kind of like get as many shots on
31:39
goal for the types of
31:40
SPEAKER_00: writing assignments that feel the most exciting and aligned to you,
31:43
while also building up those funnels for clients to find you
31:46
without you having to
31:47
SPEAKER_00: apply to a thing.
31:48
And then as your funnels continue to grow and clients are able
31:51
to find you,
31:51
SPEAKER_00: then you never have to apply to any job ever again.
31:54
SPEAKER_00: And but I think that that is like a very like rare thing.
31:58
And I think that it only happens if you're able to be really
32:00
specialized and build
32:01
SPEAKER_00: the funnels in a way that is like really deeply like ingrained and like,
32:05
SPEAKER_00: you know,
32:05
SPEAKER_00: your ideal client,
32:06
SPEAKER_00: you know how they find you.
32:08
SPEAKER_00: If that makes any sense.
32:09
SPEAKER_00: I hope that that helps with the doubles advocate argument.
32:12
SPEAKER_00: But I'd be curious if you have any other thoughts.
32:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
32:15
SPEAKER_01: I mean,
32:16
I think what you're telling me is basically to increase the
32:21
odds by keep applying
32:24
SPEAKER_01: and be more kind of niche specific to up your chances.
32:29
SPEAKER_01: Is that what you're saying?
32:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, something like that.
32:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
32:32
So I think that is kind of like it's trying to ride the wave
32:35
because it's like when
32:36
SPEAKER_00: you get to a point where you're like,
32:37
SPEAKER_00: I'm totally booked up.
32:38
SPEAKER_00: I have too many clients.
32:39
SPEAKER_00: That's a great time to raise your rates.
32:41
SPEAKER_00: And so that's how you get leverage to raise your rates as a writer.
32:43
And you want to get to the point where you are,
32:46
where you have too many clients.
32:48
And if you have too many clients,
32:50
then you're able to like double your rates.
32:52
And then even if you lose half of your clients,
32:54
you're doing less work for more money.
32:55
And so that's something that I had a writer who did that math
32:58
because I kind of
32:59
SPEAKER_00: break down that map in my book,
33:00
SPEAKER_00: Six Figure Freelance Writer of like,
33:01
SPEAKER_00: OK,
33:02
SPEAKER_00: even if you have too many clients and you double your rates,
33:05
SPEAKER_00: but you lose half your clients,
33:06
SPEAKER_00: you're actually in a better position.
33:08
And one of the people who read my book did that math and then
33:11
doubled her rates.
33:12
SPEAKER_00: And then most of her clients stayed.
33:14
And so she was making a lot more with her current set of
33:17
clients and nobody left her.
33:18
SPEAKER_00: And she was like, wow, okay.
33:19
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, yeah, you clearly didn't raise your rates enough.
33:22
And so I think that that's kind of the thing that people have
33:24
to get to is
33:25
freelance writing to be able to raise your rates in a way that
33:28
will create an
33:29
SPEAKER_00: abundant lifestyle is to be able to get as many
33:32
you know be able to find as many awesome clients that you're
33:34
excited to work with
33:35
as possible increase your odds of landing those clients and
33:38
then once you have
33:39
those clients continuously raising your rates until you hit
33:41
your ideal hourly rate
33:43
based on the number of hours that you want to work how much
33:45
money you want to make
33:46
and how much free time you want for your creative projects
33:48
because that's kind of
33:49
the balance that you want with your your life as well not only
33:52
to do great work for
33:53
clients who really love working with but also to carve out time
33:56
for your own
33:56
SPEAKER_01: creative projects as well okay so um
34:02
SPEAKER_01: We talked a lot about success and, you know, and you're doing amazing.
34:07
SPEAKER_01: And I'd like to hear a bit about the struggle.
34:10
And were there times where you like,
34:12
F it,
34:13
I am going to,
34:14
I'm quitting all of this.
34:16
I want to go back to a stable,
34:18
quote unquote,
34:19
nine to five job where I don't have to hustle.
34:22
SPEAKER_01: Have you, you know, like, I'm sure you had low points.
34:27
SPEAKER_01: If you're open to sharing the low points and how did you overcome them?
34:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
34:33
I think the biggest low point that I talk about quite a bit is
34:36
when I completely
34:37
SPEAKER_00: burned out and hit zero of my energy and what I was able to do.
34:42
SPEAKER_00: And I basically had taken on too many clients.
34:46
SPEAKER_00: It was like my first full-time year freelancing.
34:48
I was so in a scarcity mindset of being afraid that everything
34:51
was just going to evaporate.
34:52
SPEAKER_00: that I pushed myself to a brink of being so stressed out,
34:55
SPEAKER_00: not having good systems,
34:56
SPEAKER_00: saying yes to everything,
34:57
SPEAKER_00: not setting high enough rates.
34:59
And I got so stressed and so overwhelmed that I developed an
35:03
autoimmune disease.
35:04
SPEAKER_00: And this was in the beginning of 2021.
35:06
I was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis and I suddenly had a
35:10
pile of medical bills.
35:12
SPEAKER_00: My fingers were swollen and hurting to the point where I couldn't type.
35:15
SPEAKER_00: And I just looked around and I'm like, I am full-time freelance.
35:18
SPEAKER_00: I have no other job to go to.
35:21
And I have to make this work or else I'm going to be drowning
35:24
in these medical bills.
35:25
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to not be able to get through this.
35:28
SPEAKER_00: And that was the moment that I was like, okay.
35:31
SPEAKER_00: have to reevaluate and figure this out.
35:33
SPEAKER_00: And I also credit my partner,
35:35
SPEAKER_00: Kyle,
35:36
SPEAKER_00: who just joined,
35:37
SPEAKER_00: who he basically helped me reevaluate the systems when I was doing wrong.
35:42
SPEAKER_00: He's like, you got to turn off a lot of notifications on your phone.
35:45
SPEAKER_00: You have to figure out a digital detox.
35:47
You have to figure out how to raise your rates higher with
35:49
clients that would hire
35:50
SPEAKER_00: you at double what you're charging.
35:52
SPEAKER_00: And with his help,
35:53
I was able to go and double my rates and work half the time
35:57
that I was working.
35:58
SPEAKER_00: And slowly over the period of years,
36:00
SPEAKER_00: I was able to work less,
36:02
SPEAKER_00: have a better work-life balance,
36:03
SPEAKER_00: find a lot of success that I didn't think was possible,
36:06
SPEAKER_00: and then also put my autoimmune condition into remission.
36:09
And it was a huge journey,
36:10
a lot of tears,
36:11
a lot of pain,
36:11
a lot of low points.
36:12
SPEAKER_00: But I think that for all of us,
36:14
SPEAKER_00: the things that we,
36:16
SPEAKER_00: you know,
36:17
getting into that low point is sometimes the fuel that we need
36:19
to reach the life
36:20
SPEAKER_00: we've always wanted.
36:22
SPEAKER_01: Well, sorry to hear about this.
36:24
SPEAKER_01: I'm glad you're feeling better.
36:27
SPEAKER_01: What kind of system do you implement now to automate your workflow?
36:32
Like I've been hearing all these AI tools like Motion and every
36:37
time I get like...
36:41
SPEAKER_01: I'm an impulsive buyer and I go like, buy this tool and buy that tool.
36:45
SPEAKER_01: And then I ended up like, I look at the bill.
36:48
SPEAKER_01: Oh my God, what is this?
36:49
SPEAKER_01: Cancel this tool.
36:50
SPEAKER_01: No, you cannot cancel.
36:51
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it becomes a mess.
36:53
SPEAKER_01: So I'm curious what kind of tools you use for automation.
36:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
36:58
definitely well my favorite system tool it's not an automation
37:01
tool but it's free
37:02
my favorite thing is using my calendar app like a to-do list
37:05
and i love this
37:06
because it forces you that you're like oh i have to do this it
37:10
forces you to put it
37:11
on the calendar and allocate a certain amount of time to it so
37:14
my calendar is not
37:15
just filled with like meetings that i have to do or other stuff
37:17
it's also filled
37:18
with i need to you know write this substack post i need to do
37:22
this here i need to
37:23
SPEAKER_00: send this client a proposal
37:25
So when I have a lot of things to do on my calendar,
37:28
all I see is to-do lists on my calendar.
37:31
And I'm not allowed to schedule anything else on the day until
37:35
I finish my to-do list.
37:36
And I think that scheduling time blocks for the tasks that you
37:39
have on your to-do
37:40
SPEAKER_00: list forces you to be,
37:41
SPEAKER_00: one,
37:41
SPEAKER_00: realistic about how much time do I actually have?
37:44
SPEAKER_00: And then,
37:45
SPEAKER_00: two,
37:45
if you're able to blast through a bunch of tasks that you
37:47
thought were going to
37:48
SPEAKER_00: take you three hours in one hour,
37:49
SPEAKER_00: it feels great.
37:51
SPEAKER_00: And so I think that thinking about like for what tools work for you,
37:55
you don't need a shiny automation tool to be able to have a
37:57
better system.
37:58
Sometimes a better system is turning off all notifications on
38:01
your phone except for
38:02
SPEAKER_00: text messages from the people you love.
38:04
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes sometimes good systems is just,
38:07
SPEAKER_00: you know,
38:07
SPEAKER_00: figuring out that every day at the end of the day,
38:09
SPEAKER_00: you promise yourself you're going to get to inbox zero.
38:11
SPEAKER_00: That's like a really good system.
38:12
SPEAKER_00: So there are automation tools that can help with that.
38:15
SPEAKER_00: Like I love superhuman for my inbox.
38:18
SPEAKER_00: I use that.
38:19
SPEAKER_00: So there are like tools.
38:20
SPEAKER_00: I'm a big Notion lover.
38:22
I'm currently working on a Notion template that I'm going to
38:24
share with everybody
38:25
SPEAKER_00: on my newsletter.
38:26
That's going to have like the way that I schedule my weeks and
38:29
like have like set
38:30
my like my most important priorities that I also track
38:33
different projects and
38:34
SPEAKER_00: things like that.
38:35
SPEAKER_00: So those tools are helpful,
38:37
SPEAKER_00: but I think that it's really getting to the basics of being like,
38:40
how much time am I allocating to what and how does that reflect
38:43
my priorities that
38:44
SPEAKER_00: I need to get done in order to grow my business versus,
38:47
SPEAKER_00: you know,
38:47
SPEAKER_00: doing the things that are like not very important.
38:49
SPEAKER_00: And my favorite other tool that's free is called Toggle.
38:53
SPEAKER_00: And I just use it to track all of my time every day.
38:55
And then so that way I can look back on last week and being
38:58
like,
38:58
I spent 15 hours on email.
39:00
SPEAKER_00: What was I really doing with that time?
39:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
39:03
SPEAKER_00: And I feel like,
39:03
SPEAKER_00: Natasha,
39:03
SPEAKER_00: you might feel the same where you're like,
39:06
SPEAKER_00: sometimes with freelancers,
39:07
SPEAKER_00: they can be like,
39:08
SPEAKER_00: what did I really do last week?
39:10
And was it all just sending invoices or responding to emails
39:13
that didn't actually
39:13
SPEAKER_00: move anything forward?
39:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
39:16
SPEAKER_01: For me, it's the energy.
39:19
SPEAKER_01: And I also have three kids.
39:20
SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure if you have kids, but that...
39:23
sucks up a lot of your time and for me it's like I call it the
39:29
red green like
39:30
energy zone so my green energy is like in the morning and
39:33
that's what I get and
39:34
then I get the late shift at night after everyone goes to sleep
39:38
and that's when I
39:38
SPEAKER_01: catch up but everyone has different circumstances but
39:42
SPEAKER_01: So your newsletter,
39:44
SPEAKER_01: you have the job board and you also mentioned that you do training,
39:48
SPEAKER_01: like you mentioned.
39:50
So the training,
39:51
is it part of the paid newsletter or is that something extra
39:56
you charge for?
39:57
SPEAKER_01: How do you divide those two things?
40:00
Yeah,
40:00
so we have two different pieces or several different pieces of
40:03
the newsletter these days.
40:04
So with an $8 a month subscription,
40:06
that includes the job board and also class stack.
40:09
And so class stack has been the thing that I'm so excited for
40:12
and that we've done
40:14
SPEAKER_00: two classes so far already that you can watch the replay of as well.
40:17
SPEAKER_00: One class has been on building a portfolio,
40:19
SPEAKER_00: which is the question I get the most because this is a bedrock to a great
40:22
SPEAKER_00: freelancing career.
40:22
So how to build a portfolio that not only showcases your work
40:26
well to clients,
40:26
SPEAKER_00: but also if you don't have any clients,
40:28
SPEAKER_00: how do you build that portfolio?
40:30
SPEAKER_00: And so that's the first class we did.
40:31
And then the second one was all about memoir ghostwriting and
40:34
how to build your
40:34
SPEAKER_00: memoir ghostwriting career.
40:35
SPEAKER_00: So those are the two classes we've done already.
40:38
SPEAKER_00: And then this Sunday,
40:39
I'm actually doing a free freelancing one-on-one class that
40:41
everybody is invited
40:42
SPEAKER_00: to.
40:43
And that's gonna be about all those foundational elements of
40:45
being a freelancer
40:46
SPEAKER_00: that are really important to get right.
40:48
SPEAKER_00: And so those are the classes that I teach there.
40:50
And then we also have a separate founding member mastermind
40:53
group that I'm gonna be
40:54
SPEAKER_00: starting next week.
40:55
SPEAKER_00: That's gonna be a group where we're gonna have
40:57
SPEAKER_00: Basically,
40:58
accountability and community for people who are really wanting
41:01
to invest in their
41:01
SPEAKER_00: freelancing career.
41:02
SPEAKER_00: So those are kind of the different offerings that we have.
41:05
But the things that I'm really excited about is that I think
41:09
that no matter where
41:09
SPEAKER_00: you are in your freelancing career,
41:10
SPEAKER_00: if you just want to come in for a free class on Sunday and just be like,
41:14
SPEAKER_00: okay,
41:14
SPEAKER_00: freelancing,
41:14
what are the foundations that I maybe need to brush up on or I
41:17
don't know very much
41:18
SPEAKER_00: about?
41:19
And then when you're ready to take a leap and start applying to
41:21
jobs and you have a job board.
41:22
SPEAKER_00: So I'm trying to kind of create a path for anybody,
41:25
SPEAKER_00: no matter where they are in their freelancing career,
41:27
SPEAKER_00: they can just dive in and start to get paid for their writing.
41:30
SPEAKER_00: Where do you run these classes?
41:31
SPEAKER_00: What platform?
41:33
SPEAKER_00: Zoom.
41:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Zoom is the workforce.
41:35
SPEAKER_00: Like Zoom is great.
41:36
SPEAKER_00: You know, since the pandemic, my favorite platform.
41:38
SPEAKER_00: Before that, nobody knew what, you know, video conferencing was.
41:41
SPEAKER_00: And my clients would be like, OK, Skype, I guess.
41:44
SPEAKER_00: But I feel like Zoom.
41:45
SPEAKER_00: Zoom is where the cool kids go.
41:47
SPEAKER_01: OK,
41:48
SPEAKER_01: so you basically send an email to your paid subscribers and tell them,
41:52
SPEAKER_01: hey,
41:53
SPEAKER_01: I have a class for you as part of your membership.
41:55
SPEAKER_01: Here is the Zoom link.
41:56
SPEAKER_01: Come jump and take the class.
41:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
41:59
And the cool thing is that we're going to start to be bringing
42:01
in some guest instructors.
42:02
SPEAKER_00: So like another thing that's huge as a freelance writer is your website.
42:06
And I know that the tricky part is like,
42:07
OK,
42:07
but if I if I have a website,
42:09
do I need to hire a
42:10
a website designer or like,
42:11
I think I'm ready to hire a website designer.
42:13
SPEAKER_00: Like who do I hire?
42:14
Right now we're going to be bringing in a Squarespace designer
42:16
for one of our
42:17
future classes to share like the kind of like the fundamentals
42:21
of what you need for
42:22
SPEAKER_00: a website in terms of SEO and design.
42:25
And then we're hoping to get a discount specifically for our
42:27
subscribers for web design.
42:28
SPEAKER_00: So we have things like that in the works that we're planning.
42:31
SPEAKER_00: That haven't been announced yet,
42:33
but that we're really excited for to help bring more value to
42:36
our subscribers to
42:37
help people get what they need to get all of the foundations
42:40
that they need for
42:40
SPEAKER_00: their freelancing business and help with their branding.
42:44
SPEAKER_01: So I think I knew about you through LinkedIn because I'm active there.
42:51
SPEAKER_01: So when you do like,
42:53
do you have a funnel that moves people between LinkedIn to
42:56
Substack or like,
42:57
SPEAKER_01: where are you putting most of your energy these days?
43:00
SPEAKER_01: Like, what is the top of your funnel?
43:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
43:03
so my partner Kyle was able to set up like a whole separate
43:06
LinkedIn page for the
43:08
SPEAKER_00: Substack.
43:08
SPEAKER_00: And I didn't know this,
43:09
SPEAKER_00: but Substack,
43:10
you can have an RSS feed that just like shares your Substack
43:14
posts immediately
43:15
SPEAKER_00: automatically to LinkedIn.
43:16
SPEAKER_00: And I had no idea that was possible.
43:17
SPEAKER_00: It's great.
43:18
SPEAKER_00: It's great.
43:18
And so I recommend if you have a Substack and your community is
43:22
on LinkedIn to have
43:24
SPEAKER_00: a separate page for your Substack.
43:26
that you can create subscribe buttons for so people can
43:28
subscribe to you on
43:29
SPEAKER_00: LinkedIn without them punishing you for sharing links.
43:32
Because I know that they always like are downgrading posts with
43:34
links on them.
43:35
And then it'll automatically share your RSS feed and that's
43:38
LinkedIn approved.
43:38
So that's the top of my thing that I think is really useful
43:42
that most people don't
43:42
SPEAKER_00: know about,
43:43
SPEAKER_00: especially because LinkedIn is like...
43:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, a lot of LinkedIn are writers wanting to share what they're up to.
43:48
SPEAKER_00: And there's a big writer community on LinkedIn.
43:50
SPEAKER_00: So that's really helpful.
43:52
SPEAKER_00: And then we post on X and things like that.
43:56
SPEAKER_00: And yes, Joe, I will work on a post on the RSS feed with Kyle.
44:00
SPEAKER_00: And I meant to say hi to you earlier.
44:02
SPEAKER_00: Because yeah, the RSS feed stuff is super helpful.
44:05
SPEAKER_00: And Kyle's like a genius for setting that up.
44:08
And so there's so many little things like that that I learned
44:10
along the way.
44:11
SPEAKER_00: And then I'm like, I gotta sit down and write a post about this.
44:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
44:17
I had no idea because what I've been doing is I would take it
44:20
manually and then I
44:22
SPEAKER_01: post it on the LinkedIn newsletter that I have on LinkedIn.
44:26
SPEAKER_01: And then I would say,
44:27
SPEAKER_01: this post was originally published on Substack,
44:31
SPEAKER_01: subscribe to blah,
44:32
SPEAKER_01: blah,
44:32
SPEAKER_01: blah.
44:33
SPEAKER_01: So I've been doing it manually.
44:35
And sometimes I get lazy or I forget,
44:37
so I don't post all the posts from there.
44:40
SPEAKER_01: But it's good to automate it.
44:43
SPEAKER_01: One of the things that I love about what you do is,
44:47
SPEAKER_01: and I kind of stole that idea,
44:50
SPEAKER_01: you know,
44:51
SPEAKER_01: still like an artist a number of times,
44:53
SPEAKER_01: which is from the desk of Amy Suro,
44:56
SPEAKER_01: where you put what you're doing every day.
45:00
SPEAKER_01: I found that fascinating.
45:02
SPEAKER_01: How do you, like, you divide your time?
45:05
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's really helpful for very freelance.
45:08
SPEAKER_01: I mean, somehow, like...
45:11
SPEAKER_01: I don't like that term freelancer.
45:13
SPEAKER_01: Sorry.
45:14
SPEAKER_01: I like to like not solopreneur,
45:17
SPEAKER_01: but for me,
45:18
I'm more of like an authorpreneur or a writerpreneur than a
45:23
freelancer because the
45:24
SPEAKER_01: freelance part is just one like a small part of the big equation.
45:28
SPEAKER_01: You know, there's the strategy, there's all of that.
45:32
SPEAKER_01: But anyways, so I really love that.
45:35
And to see how you divide your time between like working on a
45:39
client project,
45:41
SPEAKER_01: then,
45:41
SPEAKER_01: you know,
45:42
SPEAKER_01: trying to work on your newsletter.
45:44
SPEAKER_01: And so I just wanted to say that I found that's very helpful.
45:50
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
45:52
Okay,
45:53
so we have a few minutes left,
45:55
and I wanted to talk a bit about your books.
46:00
SPEAKER_01: How are you promoting them?
46:02
SPEAKER_01: Because my understanding, you also just published a fiction one, no?
46:07
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
46:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
46:09
SPEAKER_00: And before I jump onto that,
46:10
I just want to say hi to Kelda and say thank you for dropping
46:13
in the chat and good
46:14
SPEAKER_00: luck on your full-time freelancing journey.
46:16
SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
46:17
But yeah,
46:17
to jump to the books,
46:19
I have published three books at this point.
46:22
So my first book was Six Figure Freelance Writer that I
46:25
published two years ago.
46:26
SPEAKER_00: I will be revamping it slightly and adding some more to it soon,
46:30
but it's pretty evergreen with all the concepts of how to
46:34
become a six-figure
46:35
freelance writer and build your portfolio and set your rates
46:37
and all of those
46:38
SPEAKER_00: basics.
46:39
SPEAKER_00: And then last year,
46:40
SPEAKER_00: I published a book called The Nomad Detective,
46:42
which is a series of short stories inspired by my journeys as a
46:45
digital nomad.
46:46
SPEAKER_00: And then this last February on Valentine's Day,
46:49
SPEAKER_00: I came out with my first romanticity book called The Ash Trials,
46:52
SPEAKER_00: which just was so much fun to write.
46:54
SPEAKER_00: And it's like the response from readers has just been really lovely.
46:58
And then currently I'm working on my next book that is coming
47:01
out in January and it
47:03
will be about the next phase for freelancers on how to scale
47:06
their business from
47:06
SPEAKER_00: six figures to seven figures.
47:08
SPEAKER_00: An official announcement for that will be coming out soon.
47:10
SPEAKER_00: I would be definitely getting it.
47:12
SPEAKER_00: Do you self-publish?
47:14
SPEAKER_00: Yes,
47:15
SPEAKER_00: I believe in self-publishing is the future,
47:17
SPEAKER_00: especially because I was in this Oakland bookstore earlier this year,
47:20
SPEAKER_00: and I was walking through the shelves,
47:21
and I noticed a bunch of self-published books that are very
47:24
popular sitting on the
47:25
SPEAKER_00: shelves right next to books that are traditionally published.
47:27
So the way that readers are buying self-published books and
47:30
traditionally published
47:31
SPEAKER_00: books are identical in terms of the reader experience.
47:35
SPEAKER_00: And so if the reader experience is the same,
47:38
why would you as a writer not want to be a self-published
47:41
author and keep the
47:42
SPEAKER_00: royalties,
47:42
SPEAKER_00: not have to answer to...
47:44
SPEAKER_00: a publisher who may not have your best interests in mind.
47:47
SPEAKER_00: And that way you can keep more of the royalties and have,
47:49
SPEAKER_00: even if you have a smaller audience,
47:50
make more from your writing and be able to have total control
47:53
over your books and
47:55
SPEAKER_00: your world.
47:56
And the nice thing with self-publishing is that you don't have
47:58
to pay upfront to
47:59
SPEAKER_00: print a bunch of books.
48:00
SPEAKER_00: It's print-on-demand publishing,
48:02
where the books are printed for you and you don't have to worry
48:04
about shipping or
48:05
SPEAKER_00: anything.
48:05
SPEAKER_00: So I will eventually write more about self-publishing,
48:08
SPEAKER_00: but I think it's what all authors will be doing in the future.
48:11
And because I just think it's so much more accessible than it's
48:14
ever been before.
48:15
Do you have a team that you hire to help you like an editor or
48:20
cover designer or typesetter?
48:21
SPEAKER_01: Or do you do the whole thing yourself?
48:24
SPEAKER_00: Yes, definitely work with an amazing team on different parts.
48:27
So I hired line editors,
48:28
proofreaders,
48:29
cover designers,
48:30
interior formatters.
48:31
SPEAKER_00: But even if you're a writer who wants to do it all yourself,
48:34
the tools have gotten really good where you can download
48:38
platforms like Atticus or
48:39
SPEAKER_00: the one that I use is...
48:41
Oh,
48:41
it's not Luma,
48:42
but it's something else that the name is escaping me from right
48:44
now.
48:44
SPEAKER_00: It's the Mac version of Atticus.
48:47
There's a bunch of really great tools for setting the book in
48:49
the typeset.
48:50
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
48:51
SPEAKER_01: Is it something with W?
48:54
SPEAKER_01: No, Bellum.
48:55
SPEAKER_01: Bellum.
48:55
SPEAKER_01: That's the one it is.
48:56
SPEAKER_00: Bellum is great.
48:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
48:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
48:59
SPEAKER_01: Many people told me about it.
49:01
And I was wondering if that would like replace hiring a
49:04
typesetter if you do that.
49:06
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
49:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I did.
49:08
SPEAKER_00: I typeset my own book for The Nomad Detective with Vellum.
49:11
SPEAKER_00: I think it turned out great.
49:12
And so they have a good like templates and stuff to add the
49:15
little flourishes and
49:16
SPEAKER_00: you can do a lot of editing.
49:17
SPEAKER_00: And it's very it's very easy.
49:18
If people know how to use Scrivener,
49:20
Vellum is easy because Scrivener can be hard.
49:23
SPEAKER_01: Oh, my God, Scrivener.
49:25
SPEAKER_00: I know.
49:26
SPEAKER_00: I just saw like a PTSD flashback in your eyes.
49:31
SPEAKER_01: I mean, the idea is great.
49:33
SPEAKER_01: They just have to make it more user-friendly.
49:37
SPEAKER_01: Okay, where do you sell books the most?
49:40
I'm curious because I just published my novel last week on my
49:43
birthday,
49:43
my second novel.
49:45
SPEAKER_01: And I've been doing an experiment, which is the TikTok shop.
49:49
SPEAKER_01: And I'm getting some success,
49:52
SPEAKER_01: which is...
49:52
SPEAKER_01: I've never kind of considered that,
49:56
SPEAKER_01: but I set up my own shop,
49:58
SPEAKER_01: you know,
49:58
SPEAKER_01: with my own LLC.
49:59
SPEAKER_01: And they asked for so many paperwork, my passport, whatever...
50:04
And it's and somebody was saying that this is kind of the
50:08
future of independent
50:09
SPEAKER_01: publishing through the TikTok shop.
50:12
I'm just curious is how are you selling your books and where
50:16
has been like the most
50:17
SPEAKER_01: success for you?
50:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm a little basic.
50:20
I only sell on Amazon,
50:21
but I'm going to be expanding to Barnes & Noble and other
50:24
retailers soon.
50:26
Mostly because Amazon KDP is the easiest platform to figure
50:28
out,
50:29
and I haven't branched out.
50:30
SPEAKER_00: But there's so many platforms.
50:31
SPEAKER_00: I think it's super smart for you to use TikTok Shop.
50:34
SPEAKER_00: And congrats on your second book, by the way.
50:36
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
50:37
SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
50:37
SPEAKER_00: And so I think that those are really smart ways.
50:40
SPEAKER_00: So I'm definitely still learning all the distribution channels.
50:43
SPEAKER_00: But right now I just use Amazon.
50:45
SPEAKER_00: That's been easy.
50:46
But I think there's so many options for people that are like
50:48
there's a lot of
50:49
really cool ways and ways that you can get into bookstores more
50:52
easily by getting
50:53
SPEAKER_00: on IngramSpark and things like that.
50:55
SPEAKER_00: So there's like a whole rabbit hole with this.
50:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I know.
50:58
SPEAKER_01: I know.
50:59
SPEAKER_01: Well, Amy, this has been wonderful.
51:01
SPEAKER_01: I mean,
51:01
SPEAKER_01: I want to chat for you for another hour,
51:04
SPEAKER_01: but I know you're busy and I have to pick up my son from summer camp,
51:07
SPEAKER_01: see?
51:07
SPEAKER_01: So I don't want to leave him stranded.
51:10
SPEAKER_01: But this has been amazing.
51:13
And for anyone who's watching us,
51:17
I would highly recommend subscribing to Amy's podcast.
51:22
SPEAKER_01: newsletter, the paid one.
51:24
SPEAKER_01: It's worth every penny.
51:25
SPEAKER_01: And thank you again, Amy, for joining me and accepting my invitation.
51:32
SPEAKER_01: Anything else you would like to say before we conclude?
51:35
SPEAKER_01: Any last parting words?
51:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
51:38
SPEAKER_00: no,
51:38
I'm just really excited for to continue to help freelance
51:40
writers make writing
51:41
SPEAKER_00: their job and getting jobs on our writing job board.
51:44
You can go to makewritingyourjob.com for that and really
51:47
excited for everybody.
51:48
We have free trials and things like that for anybody who wants
51:51
to to come in and
51:52
SPEAKER_00: just take a look at the we've published like over 100 writing jobs,
51:57
SPEAKER_00: contests,
51:58
SPEAKER_00: residencies,
51:59
SPEAKER_00: everything that writers would ever want on our newsletter.
52:01
SPEAKER_00: We do it twice a week now, but we're about to switch to daily.
52:04
SPEAKER_00: So we have a lot of really cool stuff for writers.
52:06
SPEAKER_01: Oh, wow.
52:07
SPEAKER_01: I'm excited.
52:08
SPEAKER_01: I read every single newsletter you send.
52:10
SPEAKER_01: So keep it going.
52:13
SPEAKER_01: And thank you again.
52:14
SPEAKER_01: And thank you for the 61 people that joined us live today.
52:18
SPEAKER_01: This is great.
52:19
SPEAKER_01: I think this is the record for my lives, usually like sometimes 20, 30.
52:24
SPEAKER_01: But many people will...
52:26
SPEAKER_01: Join later on after I send this.
52:29
SPEAKER_01: And you will get also a copy of it and you can distribute it.
52:33
SPEAKER_01: And thank you very much.
52:35
SPEAKER_01: Wish you the best of luck.
52:36
SPEAKER_01: And we'll stay in touch definitely via all the social channels.
52:41
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much, Natasha.
52:42
SPEAKER_00: And have a great day.
52:43
SPEAKER_00: And thanks for having me.
52:44
SPEAKER_00: Of course.
52:45
SPEAKER_00: Take care.
52:45
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
52:46
SPEAKER_00: Bye-bye.