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Leadership of Employees Comes Down to Clarity · The Missing Secret Podcast

• 0:00
  Kelly Hatfield: Welcome to the Missing Secret Podcast. I'm Kelly Hatfield.
• 0:03
  John Mitchell: Hey, and I'm John Mitchell. So here's our topic today: leadership of employees comes down to clarity. Kelly, you think that's true?
• 0:14
  Kelly Hatfield: I think it absolutely is true. I'm excited to dig into this topic today. Yeah, absolutely. I think there's a lot. Clarity is the foundation for everything, so it would make sense that there's a direct correlation between that and being a great leader.
• 0:28
  John Mitchell: Yeah, absolutely. Well, you know, think about this: leadership today is working. It is not working, and according to Gallup, and they do this every year. They have determined that 70% of U.S. workers are disengaged from their job. Just think about that. I mean, I know you live it, but but 70% of American workers were disengaged from their job, and you know that's been the case literally for 20 years, and the reason is because the leadership field, in my opinion, today has it backwards. You can't lead others until you can lead yourself. Unfortunately, I guess this is the unfortunate Truth that most people are not deliberately leading themselves; they're just weighing life, and so they're doing that because no one taught them the alternative. Well, here's the alternative: advanced leadership of self, and it's just intelligent and deliberate way to lead yourself using basically a simple 12-minute day system, and you master that system, and two things happen. The first thing that happens is you live the exceptional life rather than the average life, but secondly, leading others stops being a performance and just becomes an extension of who you are. You buy that,
• 2:12
  Kelly Hatfield: 100% By
• 2:13
  John Mitchell: yeah, I knew you would.
• 2:16
  Kelly Hatfield: Yeah.
• 2:17
  John Mitchell: So, talk about leadership from your standpoint, roughly, how many employees you have
• 2:26
  Kelly Hatfield: right now? Let's see. Here's about 22 right now,
• 2:31
  John Mitchell: and you've been as high as 50, if I remember right. Right,
• 2:35
  Kelly Hatfield: 50. Yeah, 50 internal and 147 external that were RW two employees, yeah,
• 2:42
  John Mitchell: right, right. Well, you know a little something about leadership, don't you?
• 2:45
  Kelly Hatfield: Yep. Yes, I do.
• 2:49
  John Mitchell: Both from lessons and and hard knocks, as well as you know figuring out what to do, right?
• 2:56
  Kelly Hatfield: Yeah. No, absolutely. You you know this is you know trial and error. You know, I think definitely. I think it is. You know what we talk about so much when we're talking about you know the things that attribute to our success as an individual, which is having a growth mindset and knowing that I, you know, again striving to get better and be the best version of myself. So based, you know, supporting what you said early on. It's hard to lead others when you are not leading yourself. Like I know this is a a common phrase that's used a lot, but it's so true. And it's leading by example. You are showing up as the best version of yourself and interacting with your team as the best version of yourself. Guess what happens? You know everybody. You know it. You know what's that saying about the tide raising all ships? You know the
• 3:47
  John Mitchell: right.
• 3:48
  Kelly Hatfield: Yeah. You know it's
• 3:49
  John Mitchell: the the tide rises right
• 3:50
  Kelly Hatfield: exactly, and all the ships. You know, and I think it's that same you know kind of philosophy behind that. And then the reversal to like anybody who's listening has thought about. You know, think about like the worst leader that you've had before. You know, before and how they showed up as an individual. I guarantee you, the words you are using to describe them are, you know, somebody who listens, who makes you feel seen, makes you feel like that is not how you're describing that leader. You know, and and that is one of the things as we're talking about that is, I want you to be envisioning. You know, who are those standout people in your lives that were leaders? Whether it's former bosses, supervisors, coaches, mentors, how do they show up? What makes them stand out as somebody that you really respect and you know wanted to work for? Like those are like, as I'm thinking about being a leader, that's what I'm thinking about, and I'm like, okay, I'm aspiring to be more like that. How, you know, what do I need to do? How do I need to develop myself to be more like that? And so I know that was a long rambling answer, but you know, that's how you know if you're. Not leading yourself and showing up as the best version of yourself as frequently as you possibly can, but how on earth can you expect to get that out of your people that you're leading?
• 5:11
  John Mitchell: Yeah, absolutely. Well, and you know, I I learned a great lesson about leading people from a guy I went to high school with. He he ultimately ran Chili's and Brinker International and had like 120,000 people. And he he turned me on to this philosophy that I think his name is Peter Lencioni. Is that his? I know Lencioni is his last name, but I'm not sure if Peter's the right name. But has a three three step rule. First of all, you got to make the employee feel known. You got to the employee needs to know that the boss knows their name, knows stuff about their family, knows what their interests are, so that so they got to feel known. Then the second thing is the boss has to show them that their job matters to to the success of the company. And then the the third step is you got to measure their performance, both for them and for the boss. And like I was, he was telling me, you know, again, he had 120,000 employees, and I'm like, well, Doug, how do you make the the dishwasher guy see that his job matters? And he says, oh, the dishwasher's job does matter, obviously. And he explained it, and he says how they measured the dishwasher, every one of them, and but I found that that three-step rule was really valuable. And do you follow anything like that? Oh,
• 6:51
  Kelly Hatfield: 100% The very first thing that I would say is one of the very first like human needs that people have is to feel seen and heard, and so as a leader, so to be known, you know. And the example that you just gave to, you know, so for that individual to know that you give a damn about them, you know. And when you're talking about a large, you know, a corporation like Chili's, then it's your first line, you know. Your supervisors are the ones that know that, like, and that starts at the top with you instilling that in them that they need to know that because it's you can't out of 120,000 people you can't know everybody's life and what's going on with them right but the people who are your direct reports you know you need to know and then they need to understand that they need to know that about theirs and so on and so forth and moves through the company you know but that is,
• 7:40
  John Mitchell: I guess, that's what they call a culture.
• 7:42
  Kelly Hatfield: Exactly, you know, exactly, and that is the that is what most people want more than anything else is to feel seen, to feel heard, to be known. And I think where so many people get this wrong, you know, leaders do is, you know, and there's so much research out there. I talk about this all the time. Of course, compensation being competitive with compensation benefits and those things that matters. It is not number one. Number one is that people want to feel valued, and that can be demonstrated through something as simple as, "Hey, I really appreciated how hard you worked this week to get that deal done. That makes a huge difference in the company, you know. And and then I will talk about how that impact because for us it's the ripple effect. That's kind of my, you know, my mantra. You know that I'm paying attention to how what we do moves throughout, you know, the community and people's lives, and so I will tie it to that, you know, which is part of our culture. I'll say by you know this deal closing, you realize that you just what how that's going to influence the company, you know how that is going to or impact the company, the difference that that's going to make in this individual's life, you know, for this new role that's the next step in the trajectory of their career that added an additional $20,000 base salary to their comp, and you know that they feel more fulfilled. Like you realize the impact that that's going to have on their family, that that's likely going to have on the community, that that's going to have on the company. Like so, understanding and making that connection for people. So that's words. That's taking a minute out of your day to say thank you. I see you. I recognize the work you do, and here's how it moves throughout the. Here's how it connects to our culture and what we're doing here from a biotics standpoint. And not, of course, I'm going to pay. I pay people well and everything, but that in and of
• 9:43
  itself, it's why I have people like my first employee is still with me, my second employee is still with me, my third employee is still with me. My average 10 years, 10 years, you know, for team members because that is the the way that we kind of move through, you know, and. The values that we have as a company are super well connected and communicated. We are our growth mindset. So when a deal doesn't go the right way, we all sit down. We call it a post mortem, and we talk about okay, what could we have done differently to get a better outcome? Because we're striving to do as a company is get better every day, you know, and so it's a safe space where we trust one another. Let's talk about how what happened here, and like how we can everybody can benefit from this conversation, so that we can grow as an organization. So I think like those are the things that doesn't cost you anything,
• 10:38
  John Mitchell: right? Right.
• 10:39
  Kelly Hatfield: So
• 10:40
  John Mitchell: well, you know, I I love your opinion about this. I I remember back when when I was in the reverse mortgage business, and I ultimately brought Ginger in to be the the president, and because she's Miss Personality, and she was way better with people than I was. But I know that's hard to believe. But
• 11:02
  Kelly Hatfield: I was biting my lip.
• 11:08
  John Mitchell: Yeah, I'm always so loving, and you bet that's another story. But one of the things that was funny is, and it's my nature to to say to people, "Thank you for the job you're doing. You're doing a good job, you know. And I would, I would say that that would just would, as I encountered my employees. Now I didn't office up there in the corporate office. I was at at home, you know, in my little castle and and orchestrating it from from above, but but I'd go up there and I would praise them, and invariably they'd come to Ginger a week later and want a raise, and it was totally frustrating for both of us because she wanted me to stop doing it, and I understood why, and but I didn't want to stop doing it because that's my nature, and I do appreciate them. And my attitude would be: listen, we have a system for raises, and you know, just we're following the system. You know, let's not take John's comment, and now you got to have a raise. But that's what happened. What's your take on that?
• 12:19
  Kelly Hatfield: I think that you have to clearly articulate the expectations and how the company works and how you earn raises within the company. Yeah. So whether that's something you you know are evaluating annually, whether your compensation structure, if these are salespeople, are set up you know in such a way that they are that they're the way they earn more money. Like I don't give raises on base compensation. I give raises on the commission percentage. So based on what when you reach a certain threshold, 300,000, then your commission percentage goes up another 5% You know, when you reach 500,000, it goes up another 5% Like so, um, it it reduces the outcome that I want, which is production. It helps them make an excellent living. The company is doing really well if we're doing it that way. So, like that is clearly articulated at the onset of the relationship. They know how they get raises. They know how their compensation. It's performance based, and so I haven't had that issue since implementing this new model because it's like it's spelled out for you. If you want more money, here's how you do it.
• 13:22
  John Mitchell: Right,
• 13:22
  Kelly Hatfield: go make it. You know, it's
• 13:24
  John Mitchell: probably a good idea that I'm not part of your company. I mean, would by God cost you money?
• 13:32
  Kelly Hatfield: You know, so I think that you know. So I think it just goes down to you've got to set the plate right at the beginning. Right. Yeah. Know exactly how this works. How they get pay. You know, compensation. You know, because you shouldn't feel like, gosh, I can't say things to people because then I'm gonna my they're gonna be knocking on my door to get pay increases. Like, you know, no. I think that's a cultural thing, and you've got to set that up from the onset of the relationship.
• 13:58
  John Mitchell: Right. So, so talk about the difference between management and leadership.
• 14:03
  Kelly Hatfield: Yeah, you know when we were you know talking very briefly before we started recording, you know you had specifically mentioned you know I think we're getting this wrong in terms of you know it's clear that if 70% of people are not engaged in their job you know per the Gallup poll that we're getting leadership all wrong, you know, and it's like, well, I, you know, there's a real distinction. I think that we've got lots of people who are managing people. Managing people is very different than leading people.
• 14:31
  John Mitchell: Yeah,
• 14:32
  Kelly Hatfield: you know, when we talk about leadership, I would say that you know, if I were to describe leadership in one word, I would use the word influence. You know your ability to influence. You know, so you know that that's through every conversation. That's through you know your your mission as a company. Your so you know as you lead. You know your ability to influence other people is is critical. And I think with management, a lot of the time you're checking boxes. You're managing to make sure their metrics are done. You're. You know, there a lot of the time that's a transactional kind of thing that's happening on the management side of things,
• 15:06
  John Mitchell: right?
• 15:06
  Kelly Hatfield: And they have not. What I see happen a lot in companies is that they promote people into leadership roles and show them how to manage, but they don't teach them how to lead. You know, yeah, and there's a real distinction between those two things. And and again, we talked about it at the onset of this. When we're talking about the the methodology, when we're talking about the 2% the people who you know are striving to, you know, to be the best version of themselves, that's a small percentage of people and companies aren't equipping when they promote people. You know, you've got lots of people whose lives are a mess who are trying to lead other people. You know, and again, you know, the you're gonna they lead by example. You know, so if you are stressed, if you're running a million miles an hour, if you look like you don't have your stuff together,
• 16:01
  John Mitchell: right?
• 16:02
  Kelly Hatfield: Who the heck's going to want to follow you? You know, into the who's going to who the heck's going to want to work hard when you're you've got a short fuse and you're snipping at everybody about everyone? You know, like so. That is where I think the critical component is missing is this ability to lead oneself, that advanced leadership of self, because if you want to do a great job of leading others, you've got to lead yourself first.
• 16:27
  John Mitchell: But here's the dilemma that that I see. When I was in the reverse mortgage business, I was obviously I had developed advanced leadership of self, and I was applying it to to one person myself. Yeah, and I never tried to teach it to my employees, and I and I see that again. It took me so long to realize what I've created is for the the driven 2% that it's almost pointless to go to the 98% and try and teach them this because they're just they're just not motivated enough. I hate to say that about human nature, but that's been my experience, and it's it's gotten to the point where I am perfectly fine that it's it's only for the driven 2% I don't worry about the other 98% but I see the the paradox it it brings in that if 70% of people are are disengaged from their job and the problem is they're not leading themselves because they're winning life, so you know what are you going to do if they can't learn this this method. I I haven't figured out the answer to that. What what's your take on that?
• 17:46
  Kelly Hatfield: Well, I think you've got to start with the people who are leading. Like so, for example, our team-they're not necessarily utilizing the methodology, but they've absolutely leveled up through having a an example. You know, I mean? But with by somebody who leads by example and who's setting the tone, who's setting the pace, who's like they're showing up that way as well. They're you know they are following. You know they've got somebody who's influencing them in a positive way. You know, and they're then likely going to be more, much more receptive to implementing. You know, or to doing a version of this, maybe not the full scale model, but a version. And we've actually tested that a few, you know, through some of the stuff that we're learning, and I think to ingrain it through that repetition. But you know, I think it goes back to there aren't enough people out there that are leading and being the example for,
• 18:38
  John Mitchell: yeah,
• 18:38
  Kelly Hatfield: the other percentage that we're talking about to be going. Oh wait, there's a different way of you know of doing this. There's a different way I can be moving through the world. Like oh wow, there's that. How are they doing that? Like why are why did they look so happy and why did they you know how do I get what they you know like there aren't enough of I don't think those examples in the day to day of business, especially I think, it's small business. So many small business owners are just running as fast as they
• 19:05
  John Mitchell: can, right?
• 19:05
  Kelly Hatfield: It's making it, you know, you know, and taking it as it comes, and you know. So, yeah, that's part of it. Is where the disconnect is, is because I think, you know, that if people had more of an example and saw more, you know, in their day to day life, then they would be more apt to be open or receptive to the idea of, you know, they themselves showing up differently.
• 19:27
  John Mitchell: Well, you know, maybe maybe here's the the way to do it. So, you and I do the full advanced leadership of self, 12 minutes a day, feeding the succinct articulation of our desired life to ourselves, each day we're living our life quarter by quarter. We got a you know new goals for our career, health, and and marriage every quarter. We're full tilt going, but you're not going to get most people to do that, and so. So maybe the practical way to do it is to go. Okay, what I'm doing is foundational because the vast majority of one's daily actions, 88 percent, according to peer-reviewed studies, are unconscious, and so by feeding the succinct articulation of my desired life to myself each day, I'm influencing those unconscious daily actions, and so that's how I I do it. But that takes the commitment to read it or listen to it every day. It takes a commitment to to create the clarity, and again, most most people are not going to do that. So, let's do what they will do. Let's forget the subconscious mind for the moment. Let's just think about the conscious mind and and for each person teach them. It's all about clarity. You know what is your job? What is the two or three things that move the needle? You know, just creating conscious mind clarity about their job and what they're doing is probably very effective because their level of clarity, no doubt, from what I've seen, is about a two or three on a scale of one to 10, and so if you can just fix that clarity, forget the subconscious mind, but create the clarity, you'll have a significant input or impact, and it won't require them to do all the things we do by that.
• 21:41
  Kelly Hatfield: Yep, absolutely. I think clarity is key, and I think that's an area where you know a lot of companies and leaders fall short. You know, people are not clear about you know the expectations. They're unclear of how their work ties to the bigger picture. You know, there's so much that they're unclear about, and so yeah, I wholeheartedly agree with you. That would be a great first place to start would be on getting very very clear around that,
• 22:04
  John Mitchell: right? You know, I tell you one one thing as we wrap up today. I found this this funny, so I I go went to to my doctor's office yesterday, and nothing serious, just a little checkup, and so I'm I'm sitting there, and the the nurse practitioner, and I don't know, maybe maybe she's one of the doctors, and she goes, "So what do you do? I go, "Well, I teach at the University of Texas, and I don't, and I've gotten the habit where I don't, I make them pull it out of me. So, so I go. I teach at the University of Texas. What do you teach? Well, I teach success, the science of creating success. There's actually a science to it, and I'll let that sort of land. And she's like, "Oh, that wow, that's that's interesting. And then I go well. You know, when I was 50, I discover something that transformed my life, and it caused my income to go up by 25 times. And then I start to say, I teach a a simple 12-minute a day technique that rewires a person's autopilot, so the right actions happen automatically without thinking. Well, as I'm in the middle of that last part, she's completely checked out. She's not hearing a frigging word of what I'm saying, and I'm watching that and found it fascinating because you know she was interested enough to sort of go down the road a little bit. And once I said, you know, I discovered something that transformed my life and made my income go up by 25 times. You would think she'd go, "What the hell is it? Well, she didn't do that, and I think it's a reflection that most people they don't really want to engage with you anyway. You know that they're. I mean they're just you
• 24:09
  Kelly Hatfield: know going through the motions, making small talk, going through the motions.
• 24:13
  John Mitchell: Right, right. And and but you know this girl's frigging doctor. You know you don't think this is interesting. That's what I'm thinking, you know, and but I also like you know this is human nature, this is just human nature that people are on autopilot, and I I think when that the lesson I'm trying to convey to everybody is that when you're talking to people, they're not really listening, they don't really care. They should care, but but they don't. I get it. It's not about them. It's you're talking about you, but but you know, there's at least for what I do, there's huge implications for them if they wake up, you know. And but I found. It's so interesting, and so I don't know what's your take on that. I'm you. You're you're my therapist. You know
• 25:09
  Kelly Hatfield: two things.
• 25:10
  John Mitchell: You're the only person I can answer this to. So just so you know,
• 25:14
  Kelly Hatfield: this is two things came to mind, which was so funny. Before you said she checked out, I was thinking, I knew exactly what you were going to say next. That she checked out, and you know, just kind of wasn't because that, like, I think that there are so many people who are just kind of like, again, it goes back to the way our brains work. They're going through the motions. She's cruising through her day. She's a doctor. She's thinking about the next patient. She's think she's not present. She's not at the moment with you. She asked you something to make a quick connection, you know. And then, you know, it's just to me what you just shared is a narrative. Isn't the right word? It's a I can't think of the word I want on our culture. It is a you know
• 25:56
  John Mitchell: a a commentary
• 25:57
  Kelly Hatfield: commentary on our culture. You know, part of it. The other thing that popped into my head right away is who you know is considering the audience, because the other thing I think about too is a doctor. You know, she's probably making reasonable money, the income by 25 times. That might be where he lost her. That might not be something that's important, you know what I need to her, or that's meaningful to her. That's you know. So I think also too, if that's like my needs are all covered, that's not something that I'm concerned about. You know, it may be relationships. You know, it may be like she, you know, because she works full time as a doctor or whatever. Her relationships with her kids aren't great because she does not cultivate. Like I think too. It matters like you know what is happening with that individual person, and if what you say is a pain point of theirs right now, then it is going to perk them up and make them listen. But if it isn't a pain point, because it's just like marketing, right? If you're speaking to somebody and it isn't something that's a pain point for them. They're going to cruise right by it. But if you've got somebody and you know you're cruising through, and it's on something that's you know important to you and something you know that's going on with your health or you know whatever the case may be, and you see an advertisement for it, you're going to pay attention to that. But if that isn't the problem you have, you're going to cruise right by that,
• 27:21
  John Mitchell: yeah.
• 27:21
  Kelly Hatfield: Planning in the same thing, you know. I think about if you know. I wonder whether, again, you would have no way of knowing any of this because you know nothing about the doctor. But I wonder if that theory is true because we're in an attention economy right now, and so if you're not speaking to something that's meaningful to somebody else or that is a pain point, and they likely are going to check out because it's not in people. Are not interested in it,
• 27:46
  John Mitchell: but but you know I get what you're saying. They got to be interested in it, but I don't know anybody that hears 25 times my income that wouldn't be interested in hearing the rest. But and I I've come to realize this is a lesson I think I got is less is more, and what I mean by that is you know once I sort of throw it out there and and I've I've assessed you know their level of interest, then I might say you know I discovered something that transformed my life when I was 50, and it made my income go up by 25 times. So that's what I teach. Boom, nothing else, nothing else. And you know, if they're really interested, they're like, "Well, how's this work? What is it? Yeah, and you know, and I share this with everybody because just understand how people today are operating, and if you're trying to, of course, I wouldn't. I'm not trying to influence her. I'm just answering her her her question.
• 28:52
  Kelly Hatfield: Yeah.
• 28:52
  John Mitchell: But and you know, I've gotten to the point where, at least from my standpoint, I tell them, you know, at some point I go. I teach them, teach advanced leadership of self, the science of leveraging yourself. I don't have to say another frigging word. If they if they can't get it out of that, there's nothing I can say. You know. And but I also see that when I say that, they're like, "Well, what did you say? And I'm like, I said it as clear. I'm thinking, I said it as clear as I can possibly say it. But I see again this idea that people are are checked out and they're not really hearing. So it may sound perfectly clear when I say it, but in their ears, because they're clocked out, they're not hearing it, and so that's really the lesson I want everybody to take from this long-winded story: is that people are checked out, and that you have to sort of factor that in when you're trying to influence them, and that's why using a question. Is always so critical because it moves them from being checked out to having to focus and answer a question. So if I, if you really want to influence them, you got to ask them a question.
• 30:13
  Kelly Hatfield: Yeah. Nope. Absolutely.
• 30:15
  John Mitchell: Okay. Well. Until next time, we will see you.