Latest / 85 Percent: A Wanderful Podcast / S3 E4: "Exposure Leads to Expansion" with Eileen Ivette
Transcript
- Beth Santos: Hi everyone, Beth here, founder and CEO of Wonderful and host of the 85 Percent podcast, which you are listening to and watching right now. We've got another really great episode today. We're talking with Eileen Ivette who is the creator of the Black Latin history series. It's a video series. She also runs trips, she has articles, she's built this really incredible community around the Black Latin experience, which is something that She felt like there wasn't a lot of representation behind in travel before she started her work. She also takes this really cool journalistic approach to everything. Because she's a professional journalist, you can see it in just the way she has her videos, but also the way she talks. I actually tease her a couple of times in the episode about how she does such a great job explaining something and then summarizing it down into a like very clear and understandable framework for people. you'll understand why she was the winner of our 2026 Trailblazer Award, because even though she only started creating these videos in 2022, they've completely taken off and she's grown an incredible audience and a wonderful following. And I cannot wait for you to hear the conversation that we're talking about that has so much to do with identity, with being seen, with the fast consumption of content these days and A travel industry that we would like to see more of and voices that we'd like to hear more of. So check it out. This one's for you all. Thanks for watching. Enjoy. Hello, everyone. We're here for another episode. I bring to you somebody very special. I'm really excited for this conversation, Miss Eileen Ivette the Afro-Columbian creator behind Black Latin history, Eileen Ivette: Mm-hmm. Beth Santos: a series that uplifts Afro-Latino stories and confronts anti-black erasure across Latin America and the Caribbean. She brings a journalism background to her storytelling and mentors other creators on ethical historical reporting. And this year. She won our Trailblazer Award at the Bessies. Congratulations. Welcome. Thanks for gosh. Eileen Ivette: Thank you, thank you. Beth Santos: let's talk about the Bessies because that's where we have to start everything. How did it feel when you won? Take us to that moment. What was it like for you? Eileen Ivette: It was a stacked category. So I was like, Beth Santos: Yeah. Eileen Ivette: it could really go either way. but it felt really good. honestly for me, it was like a full circle moment because Wits Puerto Rico was the first travel conference I went to when I decided to start taking this career, this industry seriously. and so Beth Santos: Love Eileen Ivette: four wits ago. Beth Santos: Who Eileen Ivette: and so yeah, so to be able to like Beth Santos: We measure time in witses. Eileen Ivette: Yes. So to be able to like, you know, three years later see like the accumulation of the work that I've been putting in. and being honored by such an amazing community was really dope. And just like really full circle, like, I started here and now I'm winning an award here. And like it's just it's been just really nice to kind of like also measure my growth in this career by witses as well. Like, okay, wits Puerto Rico was the first one? WITS Utah did this Wits New York was my first speaking engagement at a conference. And WITS Chattanooga, I'm winning an award, you know? So it was just, it was really dope and really full circle for me. Yeah. Beth Santos: I think for this Trailblazer award too, What is cool about this award is we're really trying to honor somebody who has had like a a different speed of growth Eileen Ivette: Mm-hmm. Beth Santos: and and has maybe s the things that they're saying are even more relevant three years is a is a fast build, like really fast. and I'm just really excited about what you're doing. And I think you're you're creating so many, you know, new thoughts in people's heads about like our world and culture and Eileen Ivette: Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Beth Santos: identity and and stories. And you were also on stage this year at Wits talking about it was the speed versus substance, right? And Eileen Ivette: Was? Yeah. Beth Santos: I just love some of the things you were saying about you know, quality over quantity. And I know that's been such a huge part of the types of content that you're creating too. Eileen Ivette: Yeah. I think the the way you explained it made sense, right? Like this some people do blow up overnight, right? Like I think TikTok made it to where you could literally post something today and then tomorrow you have a million followers. but I do also think that Just like quality content takes a while for people to see. And this industry is an industry about visibility. And even though you may be creating something amazing three years ago, it may just now be picking up for people who are finally starting to see it outside of the core group who saw it from the beginning. like you said, it is paving a new wave and And adding new thoughts and making people look at the world a little differently, and especially about blackness in Latin America. lot of people when they enter the creator economy or decide they want to be influencers, they see the numbers, they see the money, they see, like, someone's making four thousand dollars off a 30-second video, and it's like, yes, that happens eventually, but like no one's gonna give you four thousand dollars if you don't have quality content, if you're not talking about anything, and yes, I don't believe in oversaturation, but like, yes. Everyone wants to be a creator these days. So, what is Beth Santos: Mm. Eileen Ivette: making you stick out out of the hundreds of thousands of people who are just yapping on the internet? Why should I, a stranger who doesn't know you, decide to follow you and trust what you are telling me, and trust that the information you're giving me is actually gonna help me plan my trip or learn something new, or you know, start buying from this brand or whatever, whatever. you have to have substance because Having substance builds an audience, builds a community that if you decide to no longer post on TikTok or Instagram or YouTube, they're like, Where is Eileen? Where's so and so? Where's Beth Santos: Yeah. Eileen Ivette: your content? Where can I find you? What are you doing next? you're doing a group trip. I trust you. Let me actually pay a thousand dollars plus to go to a foreign country with you on my first international trip or whatever. And so I will always say quality, quality, quality because if you're known for quality that extends into so many other avenues of your life. Beth Santos: I think honestly that's a reassuring message for a lot of creators because I think a lot of creators are really feeling the pressure of like put as much out there as possible, Eileen Ivette: Yeah. Beth Santos: you know, just record, record, record, like doesn't really matter i if it looks good. that's really cool, you know, just kind of the side effect of that of just showing other creators like, you know what, actually it can be really good to just slow down and to focus on something that you can be really, really proud of. the person who's literally talking about slow content and intentional growth is also the person who skyrocketed to the Trailblazer Award. You know, but like but it goes to show Eileen Ivette: True. Yeah. Beth Santos: that like the slow creation it does not necessarily mean, you know, slow growth. when you build a portfolio of really high quality stuff, that makes people trust you faster than if you build Eileen Ivette: Yeah. Beth Santos: a really big portfolio of crappy things that people have to sort of sift through before they decide, you know, that they Eileen Ivette: Yeah. Yeah. Beth Santos: want to follow you. let's take a step back and tell everyone about what you're doing because Black Latin history, I mean, it's really cool. Like we're we're talking about the way that you're putting it out, but what made you want to start doing this in the first place? Eileen Ivette: I'm Afro-Colombian. Both my parents are from Buenaventura, Colombia, which is on the Pacific coast of Colombia, right? Colombia is the only country in South America that has a Caribbean and a Pacific coast. So most people know Beth Santos: cool. Eileen Ivette: the Caribbean coast, which is like Cartagena, Santa Marta, you know, like those Baranquilla where Shakira is from. Beth Santos: Yeah. Eileen Ivette: Like most people know that. Beth Santos: Yeah. Eileen Ivette: the Pacific Coast, we have called it the neglected coast for a very long time, because it is a predominantly Afro-Colombian coast, right? Like where that's Buenaventura, Quíbido, Timbiqui, like a lot of stuff that people associate with Colombia actually comes from that coast, but it has been neglected for a very, very, very, very, very long time. I grew up in Houston, Texas, so to be Latina, to be Hispanic, to be Mexican, right? I growing up was constantly being told, How are you Hispanic? Like people constantly questioning my existence in society and in the world. But for me, Beth Santos: Well Eileen Ivette: it was like very weird experiencing that because every summer my mom would send my older sister and I back to Colombia to spend time with our, you know, grandparents and our family because like 90% of them were still in Colombia. So every summer I would go to Cali And Buenaventura. And so for me growing up, I was constantly surrounded by Afro Colombians, by black people who spoke Spanish. My my mom was very clear, like, we're black. We just speak Spanish. but we're still black women. and so I just knew, like, growing up, like, okay, I want to create something that like amplifies our stories so that I can just like be like, here, here's a video, instead of always having to answer that question and give this Beth Santos: Yeah. Yeah. Eileen Ivette: whole roundabout answer. and so I majored in journalism. I went to Howard, which is an HBCU in DC. I wanted to work on magazines. I wanted to do like print magazines and layout design. But this was 2014 so print was dying or at least the start of it. And if I wanted to graduate with a job I knew I needed to pivot to video. And so Beth Santos: Yeah. Eileen Ivette: I started pivoting to video and I did this like web series called Tus Paseros which is Colombian slang for your friends, and I had found other Afro Latino students on campus, and basically it was set up like I don't know if you remember the MTV show called Guy Code and Girl Code, where you would just like throw out topics and comedians would answer it with stuff, and so I essentially did something like that with Afro-Latino students and just throwing out topics like holiday parties, crazy mom sayings, super just like things within the community, and that was like my first ever. Afro-Latino creation, Beth Santos: this. Eileen Ivette: right? And then fast forward to 2022. I had been working at an international news organization for a few years, and I had pitched a story looking at how Latin America historically tried to eliminate their black population, right? Through blancamiento and just like historically Colonial period and all those things. and I was getting a lot of pushback, like a lot of pushback. Beth Santos: Like internally, like from like your Eileen Ivette: It from from my higher ups and stuff like that. Like they were telling me I was too close to the story. They were basically saying I was too close to the story. So what I was saying was incorrect when it was like factually and historically backed. Yes. And I Beth Santos: Okay, we'll go with that. Eileen Ivette: was the only Afro-Latina in the newsroom. So I'm getting Beth Santos: Wow. Eileen Ivette: really frustrated because it got to the point where they were trying to make me water down what we were saying. And I was like, if we're gonna do it that way, I don't wanna do this. Like I'm good. But for me, that was the moment where I was like, Okay, I've gotten comfortable here. I need to start thinking about my own things, I saw this Snapchat grant, and it was asking for like original content. And I was like, dang, I don't have any any proof of concept of what I'm trying to pitch to this because I've been at this news station the whole time not working on anything. I have no proof of how good of a producer I am now. and so Hispanic Heritage Month was about to start, and I was like, okay, let me do a few videos to apply for this grant. I didn't win the grant, but that's what started the Black Latin history TikTok page. yeah, yeah. Beth Santos: Well, shout out to Snapchat for that. I mean, like, I guess if that didn't happen, you wouldn't have even Yeah. Eileen Ivette: I wouldn't have created the TikTok page. I would have just like done the grant and if I would have won it, it would have been great because it was like 100k, which amazing. But I everything happened the way it needed to happen. And I came up with Black Latin history because I was like, I'll change the name eventually. I just don't want the name to prevent me from making this page right now I posted one Beth Santos: it's not funny. Eileen Ivette: video a week with zero followers. I didn't tell anybody that I had created this page. By the end of the month, the TikTok page had grown from zero followers to 32,000 followers and my personal Beth Santos: I know. Eileen Ivette: Instagram went from like 1800 to 16,000. Insane insane Beth Santos: Wow, totally insane. Eileen Ivette: I said what's going on here? Like how did what's what's going on? And the video that I feel like had the played the biggest role in that was I did a video about how Afro-Colombian women used to use braids as escape maps during the colonial period. And I hated the way I edited. I did not like the video, but I was like, I said I was gonna post one video a week. Be consistent, just do it. Who cares? Like you made this promise to yourself. I put it out, it got four million views on TikTok, it got four million views on Instagram. Viola Davis reposted Beth Santos: Wow. Eileen Ivette: it. It got 4 million views on her page. It went super viral. And I said what is what is this? What is what is Beth Santos: my God. Right. Eileen Ivette: happening here? it goes to show that like sometimes the content that you think sucks is what resonates with people, right? Because the story was good and there were women connecting to it of talking about why black hair is resistance and why it's not just braids, and connecting it across cultures and doing all these conversations that I hadn't even thought. Of because I was so stuck on the fact that I didn't like the way I edited the video, you know what I'm saying? And Beth Santos: Mm. Right. Eileen Ivette: it was just a beautiful reminder that good storytelling will always win. Good storytelling is always going to win. and so that was October 2022. by January 2023, I was like, Okay, I understand this is a format people really like. I love talking about history, I have always wanted to talk about blackness in Latin America. How can I get my own original footage for this? Because I want to make documentaries. I really want to showcase that like I'm a producer. I like this is this is what I want to do. and so I had one Howard Alum had did like this thousand dollar grant that I had won and I was like okay where can I go for a thousand dollars get my own original footage like where can I go? and I'm doing my research and that's when I come across Bomba in Puerto Rico which is Afro-Puerto Rican Beth Santos: Sure. Eileen Ivette: I found a $200 round trip spirit flight from DC to San Juan Puerto Rico. It turned out to be this big festival in Puerto Rico at the time which was called Sanse. everything just aligned perfectly. And so I went to Puerto Rico. I got my footage and I made my first Black Latin history video as y'all know it today. and then like three months later, four months later, wits Puerto Rico was happening. and it's just been kind of like a rise. So, really to sum up the story, I started it because I was frustrated in the newsroom for telling me that these stories didn't matter. Matter, telling me that I was too close to the story, so I couldn't be unbiased or in on those things, and also telling me that these stories only would work during Hispanic Heritage Month. And as a little rebel that I am, I said absolutely not. So that's when I branched out, did my own thing, and it's just been really beautiful to see the work resonate with audiences and people feel. seen people learning new things, people being like, my gosh, I went to Puerto Rico because I saw your video. I took this class with Shayla. I went to Colombia Beth Santos: Yeah. That's cool. Eileen Ivette: and I went with on this tour. Like, it's been really beautiful to merge the history with the travel and making sure that like we're we're getting economic stimulation into Afro Latino tour guides, operators, businesses, and those things within Latin America as well. So it's just been it's been cool to see it grow from just a video thing to like an actual an actual way to pour money back into the community. Yeah. Yeah. Beth Santos: Yeah. And and you're planning like trips now and you have I mean, you've really built like so many different revenue streams and yeah, ecosystems out of this. Eileen Ivette: Ecosystems, yeah. Beth Santos: Okay, so also I think you're the first person I've ever interviewed who like gave their origin story and then summarized it after Eileen Ivette: Sorry. I was like, let's Yeah. Beth Santos: You know, you're a journalist and like a video creator when you're like, here's my story. In summary, here are the top points of what I what I discussed. I mean, I that's so cool. And I can only imagine, I mean, how that must have felt to have come from a place where you felt like your voice was really being suffocated. And then to release this like first video that had the four million, reach Eileen Ivette: Yeah. Beth Santos: and to just see how many people responded to that. I mean, that must have been like a very emotional experience for you to see how many people were reacting to your content. Eileen Ivette: for me the goal was always to make documentaries? How can I use this as proof of concept to like start pitching, get funding? How how are we gonna build up off this momentum? Because going viral is cute, but like how does how do we sustain this? How do we make this into a business? and so yeah, it was like omg, finally, yay, y'all understand what I'm trying to do. and I and also like okay, what's next? Beth Santos: any negative feedback? Eileen Ivette: I get a lot of hate messages, Beth Santos: Do you? Eileen Ivette: I'm not gonna lie, yes. the thing with Latinidad is that People who are not Latino, I think, fail to realize that racism and anti-blackness is very rampant in Latin America, right? there is a superior upper class, which is usually white or mestizo. and historically, a lot of these countries in Latin America have done very heinous and violent things to get rid of visibly black people in their country, right? And so it always cracks me up because immediately people are like, you're bringing your US logic to it. And I'm like, I'm Colombian. Now what? Beth Santos: Wow. Eileen Ivette: And it's always the non-black community who is Who loves to deflect and be like, we're not like the US, we don't see race here, we're all African, European, and Indian. And it's like, no, that's not true. Some Beth Santos: Yeah. Eileen Ivette: of us are phenotypically black. Wherever we go in the world, we will be racialized as a black person. They're not gonna ask me where I'm from. They're gonna see that's a black woman. You get what I'm saying? Beth Santos: Yeah. Eileen Ivette: and so it's hard for those outside of the Afro Latino community to be confronted with the racism within the Latino community in general and understand that just because their reality is different than my reality it does not negate my reality. The two things can exist at the same time and I think it also goes back to understanding like US Latinos right like Latin Latin Americans born in Latin America and then Latinos born in the US, they also have different experiences, right? Because in the US, Latinos are also heavily oppressed, especially in the political climate we are in now. and so I think sometimes it's hard for them to understand that yes, they can be oppressed in one country, but if they go back to their home countries, they may be part of the ruling class. And so it's a lot of internal conflicts and internal identity crises. For some Latinos who are not easily racialized as I am, right? Like for me, it's never been a question. I'm black. Like that's it. Beth Santos: Mm, mm, mm. Eileen Ivette: but I can also understand and I guess empathize a little bit with some people that like, well, your ancestry is all three. And depending on where you're at, you may be racialized this way, or you may be treated this way, or you know, so it there's it's a very layered and very complicated and very nuanced conversation that the internet doesn't allow to happen anymore because nuance Beth Santos: Mm-hmm. Eileen Ivette: is dead on the internet, right? It's very me, me, me, me, me. Well, that didn't happen to me. And it's like we're not talking about just you, we're talking about an entire community. and so yeah, I I definitely have gotten a lot of pushback and a lot of like negative comments. But I think early on that scared me because I was still working for the news organization and I was like, my God, I don't want this to get back to them. I don't want to get fired. Like, you know, I'm a journalist. Beth Santos: Sure. Yeah, yeah. Eileen Ivette: I wanna make sure that what I'm presenting is factually correct. And so like after I would get those, I'm like, did I say anything incorrect? Like I'm triple checking, fact checking. But now I'm kind of like, So argue with yourself. Like, I know this is factually correct. Beth Santos: thank you for helping with my algorithm by commenting in anger today. Eileen Ivette: Yes, yes, literally, yes. At this point, I know that once I get too many hate comments, the video is about to take off, which really Beth Santos: Yeah. Eileen Ivette: sucks that that is what has to happen for certain videos to like get to the masses. but I have audience members who will like literally argue people down, and I'm like, I don't have to say anything. She said what I was gonna say, but I can't say that, so Beth Santos: Just let the system run. Yeah. Eileen Ivette: yeah. Beth Santos: tell me about the travel industry what is it that's missing these days from your perspective? And what do you wish it did better? Eileen Ivette: I feel like I accidentally fell into the travel industry. it was a creative way to get funding for documentaries, right? Because I was like Oddly enough, it's a little easier to get brand partnerships than it is to get grant funding and documentary funding and kind of going making documentaries in an unconventional manner, right? And so I was like, if I travel to these places, I can get my b-roll, I can get my footage, I can get my interviews, research, I can land a brand partnership that may have nothing to do with this, but I can film it while I'm there, it supported that entire trip, right? it's been three years now. As I've been more in the travel industry and and really inserting myself and navigating, I've been seeing a lot more tourism boards in Latin America that they are expanding to Afro tourism, which I think is beautiful and I think it's great, and I think like Visit Brazil Brazil has done an amazing job at pouring into that Afro tourism and you can tell by the amount of black travelers who have Brazil at the top of their list now, who are going there, who are going to Salvador. I think Brazil has done a a really amazing job. I would love to see more Latin American countries pour into Afro tourism because one black people are everywhere, but it's also it's a lucrative market. people want to go places where they see themselves. So if I'm gonna use Argentina for example because you know they were in the headlines very heavily for for the World Cup, not in the most positive light, right? Back in November, Beth Santos: Mm-hmm. Eileen Ivette: I went to Buenos Aires, Argentina with an Afro-Argentine organization to learn about Afro Argentines. and so I think if Visit Buenos Aires poured more into you know Lumfarda Travel, which was the company I was there with, if they poured more into the Afro-tourism market, now people Would be like, mmm, Beth Santos: Yeah. Yeah. Eileen Ivette: because Buenos Aires is actually gorgeous. Beth Santos: Yeah. Eileen Ivette: I was so surprised at how beautiful the city was, right? But prior to that, I personally had Argentina on my do not travel list because of the history, because of hearing you know these incidents of racism. Being there, I was like, wow, this city is gorgeous. wow, this is really, really beautiful. And being able to learn the black history of tango and taking a candombe drumming class with Afro-Argentine elders, right? If more people saw that, especially black travelers, they'd be willing to go. And obviously, we're gonna go to the businesses, we're gonna explore, we're gonna buy really good leather when we're in Argentina. Like, you know, like black travelers is a billion-dollar market, and so I would love to see more Latin American DMOs pour into their Afrotourism sector because one, the community deserves it, but it also will get lots of travelers. Beth Santos: I mean, I think you illustrated a really good example of how sometimes I think like sometimes from a business perspective, you think, okay, let's lean into highlighting the things that we're like good at, known for, you know, most populous, whatever. Like that's where we're gonna spend our time and energy. But I think with the Argentina example, you outlined a really good example of how when you fail to talk about certain things that do in fact exist in your culture or your place, it actually kind of works against you because that Eileen Ivette: Yeah. Beth Santos: silence is it it's kind of shooting yourself in the foot, right? Like it's Eileen Ivette: Yeah. Beth Santos: saying like we had the opportunity to talk about all of these things, but we didn't. And so then when we became In the limelight of being like a racist country, we didn't really have anything to like defend or protect ourselves Eileen Ivette: Yeah. Beth Santos: against that because we perhaps hadn't focused on that we just a couple episodes ago had a conversation with Danny Guerrero from the Culturist Group who got the Allyship Award and his whole You know, the whole conversation, we called it the business of being seen. Cause he was saying, you know, look, Eileen Ivette: Mm. Beth Santos: a lot of times we're using bad data. we're making these decisions on our tourism board spend and our marketing spend based on the data that we know and we have, but who's collecting that data? And is that data correct? You know, and Eileen Ivette: Yeah. Beth Santos: and so, and if you look, you're talking about this billion dollar business opportunity in the black travel market. I mean, This is data that without really leaning into that and saying, we have an opportunity here to have a huge demographic be seen, it ends up really hurting them, you know? And so, so I think that's like a perfect example of that. Eileen Ivette: I went to Peru maybe like two years ago. and it was a leisure trip. Like, I was going there to like hike Rainbow Mountain and all those things. But I was like, okay, if I'm gonna go to Peru, I would love to do like an Afro-Peruvian tour in Lima. I had the hardest time finding an Afro-Peruvian specific tour in Lima, and had I not put a video out on TikTok and my Instagram asking for Afro-Peruvian tour operators, people, anybody to connect me to something. I don't think I would have ever been able to to go to El Carmen, which is an Afro-Peruvian town. and like meet Afro-Peruvians, right? Lima has such a huge Afro-Peruvian population. Beth Santos: Yeah. Eileen Ivette: Why are there no tours there? And obviously, you know, people have to create the tours themselves, but if they don't see themselves in the tourism market or in the tourism sector, why would Afro-Peruvians even, you know, spend their time trying to develop the tour if they're not getting any funding? But people are going to Lima looking for that, right? Like one of the best restaurants in Lima is an Afro-Peruvian restaurant, which that food, chef's kiss, it was the best food I had the entire trip. And it was like our last day there. and so yeah I agree with like where is this data coming from? I think the historian in me also is like thinking about census erasure right and we know historically censuses have purposely not asked people in Latin America whether they're black like do they identify as black or Afro descendant until Beth Santos: Mm. Eileen Ivette: like the past couple years so it's like we know data sometimes is skewed. Beth Santos: what are your hopes for the viewers and the people that you're engaging through your work. What do you want them to be getting out of this in the end? Eileen Ivette: Two things. To learn something new and to like pack a bag and travel to the places that I'm highlighting. Like I'm so serious. the world is so big, right? And so vast. And A quote that I live by is exposure leads to expansion, right? Not in terms of like business, but like the mind. Exposure leads to expansion. Beth Santos: Yeah. Eileen Ivette: And I think for a lot of black and Latino communities, our parents and our elders are such in survival mode when they get to the US that sometimes we're not exposed to things outside of our community. and so I come from a family that loves to travel, and I'm really grateful that from a young age I was traveling. Like even if it was just Colombia, but I was traveling to Colombia and seeing different parts of Colombia and seeing my culture, my heritage, my identity, solidified because I was going back home. and so when I'm sharing these things and I'm I'm sharing the black culture in a Colombia, Brazil or, you know, a Mexic I would love to highlight Afro Mexicans. I really want people to be like, they look like my cousins. Like this feels really familiar, you know? And be curious enough to want to plan a trip and book a trip and and book that tour and you know spend three to five days, five to seven days, however much time they have, and really being intentional with their travel and and you know I think of Medellin often because that's where I do my group trip. Medellin has been having such a big tourism boom. And Comuna 13 is one of like the biggest things people go to Medellin for. you can find a tour for that very easily. but the history of of Comuna 13 it's a hard history, and what the community has been able to do to Turn their community around and make it into this big tourism spot. It's so important to make sure that your tour guide is from Comuna 13. And Comuna 13 has a huge Afro-Columbian population, right? And hip hop and its elements played a huge role in transforming the community to what we know today. But if you're not going with the right tour guide, you won't know any of that, right? A lot of people are now because it's the number. number one tourist spot. Anybody is hosting a tour because they're trying to make money, but it's like you're missing so much of the transformation, so much of the information. And so when people watch my videos, I want them to be intentional with their travel. I want them to like, yes, it may be a little more annoying that you have to DM the tour guide and be like, hey, do you have any tours? instead of just like going onto a Airbnb and booking whatever is available, right? It may be an extra step, but it's so worth it. you do that extra step because you're leaving with such a wealth of knowledge and you know your money is going back into a locally owned business versus a big corporation who probably has never Beth Santos: Yeah. Yeah. Eileen Ivette: stepped foot into that community. Beth Santos: Yeah. Eileen Ivette: and so yeah learn something new be intentional book a trip Beth Santos: I mean, I think you're you're creating so much curiosity for people. And I think in telling those stories, you know, encouraging people to find stories for themselves and to ask questions and to not take things, you know, that are just served to them necessarily as truth, and to be open to being wrong and to challenge the way we see the world. And I think those are all really, really important things that travel gives us. It sounds like you've got so many cool irons in the fire And I can't wait to follow more. And I think everyone understands now why the Trailblazer Award was right for you. So Eileen Ivette: Thank you. Beth Santos: Thanks for taking the time and being here, Eileen. It's been so nice chatting with you and hearing your story. Yeah. Eileen Ivette: Likewise. Thank you. Thank you for having me. This was a great conversation. Beth Santos: All right, everyone. I told you it was a good episode, and I'm always right, aren't I? No, but really, thank you for hopping in. Thank you for listening. we talked a lot about a lot of different things on this one. There were so many different topics related to identity, related to how we're being seen, even related to the business of travel and tourism, and how making sure that we're really including so many different voices allows travelers of different identities to to feel welcomed in a place. all of that was stuff that we covered. I hope you're enjoying this conversation. We are interviewing all of the winners of our Bessie Awards for 2026. We have more conversations to come. I hope that you continue listening and continue watching. You can always subscribe. Make sure that you're getting these right into your inbox. You can do it in one of two ways. The first is going to 85PercentPodcast.com all spelled out podcast.com You can subscribe right there and get things sent right to your inbox. You can also join me on Substack, which is a place where I'm sharing some of my own musings about the world. Every two weeks I'm publishing something new. And then in between, we're sharing some of the backstories of our 85 percent podcasts, including video recording You can always find the podcast on Spotify, Apple Music. Amazon music, wherever you find your podcast. But if you want to come into the Substack, it's called En Route It you can find it at Maximum Beth. That's my handle, maximumbeth.substack.com. Check out the En Route publication. Also check out some of the new publications we have going on. We just released a new series hosted by Wanderful. It's called Siren. It's dispatches of women who are shaping. The world that we see, the tourism industry that we see. We had a great article that was published all about the the untold stories of women at the Alhambra. We also have some really cool deep dives into the women mezcal makers, the women tuk-tuk drivers, the women who are creating tourism economies and Not getting all the coverage for it. You can find it at siren by sirenbywanderful.substack.com Or if you're a travel creator and you're looking for opportunities, you can also find travel creator travelcreatorgigs.substack.com. It has all sorts of daily opportunities sent to your inbox to help you build your creator career. So, yep, lots going on in the Wanderful world. Make sure that you stay tuned in 85 Percent. We have so many more great stories to tell of women and people who are changing the travel industry for women worldwide. I hope you continue joining us. Thanks for watching and for listening. Bye for now.