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Levels of Care in Addiction Treatment with Ryan Jarrell and Justin Mclendon · Finding New Waters

0:00
You know, I know from my own personal recovery experience.
0:02
Like I really struggled with relapse for a period of time and
0:05
the issue is that I would get, I would get one bad thought and I
0:08
couldn't get it out of there and drugs and alcohol were easily
0:11
available, right. And that was it, and I think
0:14
something that I think maybe, you know, people don't
0:19
necessarily give enough credit to when they're looking at
0:21
residential treatment is you get to spend 30 60 or 90 days
0:24
without the temptation of alcohol and drugs.
0:26
And it seems so basic. But we can't underscore how
0:29
important that is. Obsolete.
0:30
Because there are well-meaning people out there who's been 45
0:33
days doing fantastically and on the 46th day, they get a bad
0:36
idea that they just can't shake. They're not in a healthy
0:38
environment and they can end up doing some real damage.
0:41
You know, you've learned so much about the treatment of
0:47
addiction. And and I think one of the
0:49
things that I really love about working with with professionals,
0:53
like yourself is just that, we really believe that people
0:56
deserve the best level of care possible for the facilities.
1:28
All right guys, thank you. Thank you for joining us today
1:30
at New Waters recovery. My name is Justin McClendon.
1:33
I'm the executive director here at new Waters recovery.
1:36
I'm also a duly licensed therapists who specialize in
1:39
substance substance use counseling and then also in
1:42
mental health counseling as well.
1:44
And I am joined by Ryan Jarrell, who is our continuing care
1:47
coordinator and Ryan. We thank you for being on the
1:51
show today, man. Absolutely.
1:52
Thank you so much for having me Justin.
1:55
I really enjoy the fact that we're able to to have these kind
1:57
of conversations and provide education because it's such a
2:00
befuddling kind of world anyone who's an outsider.
2:03
You know, I completely agree. So today we're going to be
2:06
focusing on the levels of care and addiction treatment.
2:11
And we're also going to be talking about the that Continuum
2:14
of Care. And how that, that those level
2:16
of levels of care can kind of flow, and how they're intended
2:19
to work. So Ryan.
2:22
So maybe we could start off with just identifying what those
2:25
levels of care are Solutely and again like I really can't stress
2:29
how difficult this can be to. The Outsider family who maybe
2:33
hasn't had substance use or maybe never had treated
2:36
substance use in their family before and were battling against
2:39
like, Hollywood's depiction of what the levels of care are,
2:42
right? Absolutely, which is usually
2:43
like a cutscene of like a sunny room where someone's doing yoga
2:46
and then someone sitting in an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting
2:48
that doesn't resemble any Alcoholics Anonymous meeting
2:50
that anyone's ever been, and right?
2:52
So how we kind of like battle that image is by trying to
2:55
provide these Kind of this kind of education, there are
2:59
different levels of care, and a lot of times they're defined
3:03
partially by insurance companies, partially, by best
3:05
practiced, by clinical visions of Institutions, you know,
3:10
addiction treatment has had a really interesting development
3:13
and I think like the evolution is very inherent in how it
3:16
presents today. I'd like to go kind of
3:19
sequentially through these levels of care from highest
3:21
level of care, with the highest level of medical medical Acuity
3:25
all the way down and the first, Detox or medical detoxification.
3:30
And this will be a period of time that will be focused really
3:34
deeply on the medical aspects of someone.
3:38
Who is withdrawing from a substance.
3:39
Their body has gained a physical dependence.
3:41
Towards these can be integrated into residential treatment
3:45
facilities or they can be Standalone facilities.
3:47
Like new Waters is we really can't underscore like how
3:52
important detoxification is and Justin you know from your own
3:56
personal experience. Experience it.
3:59
Someone who's going through detox from something like
4:02
alcohol or benzodiazepines it. They're not just uncomfortable.
4:06
They have a real risk of dying. Absolutely, absolutely.
4:10
And I think that's a that's a thing, right?
4:12
I mean, you know, in a lot of times I think people think that
4:16
they can just simply stopped using a substance and sometimes
4:22
a lot of people seek this type of care and support on an
4:25
outpatient basis. And I think the reality around
4:29
it is when the level of severity of that use especially with
4:33
certain substances get to a certain point, it becomes a
4:38
potential medical emergency. Sometimes if says, if someone
4:42
doesn't have the correct supervision and Medical Care on
4:44
board to make sure that we can that we can avoid those
4:48
potential risks that surround that.
4:50
Absolutely, you know, one of the things that I think we provide
4:54
at the detox level of care at noon, Otters recovery and other
4:57
institutions like us as we're able to provide this sense of
5:00
safety for the client and the client stakeholders, their
5:03
family, and loved ones. You know, and allow them to know
5:05
that they are in a safe place being closely medically observed
5:10
detox. I think a lot of times people
5:12
have the conception and I will really put myself out there like
5:15
I had the conception that I would go to detox.
5:18
I would have a physical malady dealt with.
5:21
I would have a physical illness and a physical dependence
5:24
removed, and then I would be able to go on about my This is
5:27
something that we've seen empirically again.
5:30
And again, is is not best practice for treatment.
5:32
While a detox will deal with the physical dependence to a
5:36
substance, and hopefully make you comfortable and give you an
5:39
introduction in solid clinical backing.
5:41
The real work is going to come afterwards, the real work is
5:43
going to be dealing with the mental, the emotional coping
5:49
systems that you have built in place that have led you to use
5:51
substances again. And again, and a detox is
5:55
normally a week. And it's just not the The right
5:57
place to do that, kind of therapeutic work.
5:59
So residential level of treatment is the next level of
6:01
care. Hmm.
6:03
This would be inpatient treatment, you there would be
6:06
some medical staff. Certainly available.
6:08
You'd see depending on the institution of course, beaut see
6:11
psychiatrists nurses would be present at cetera.
6:14
This could last anywhere from 30 to 60, to 90 days, and this is
6:17
where you do the real work. Both yourself and your family in
6:20
healing and learning coping skills from this disease.
6:24
Justin as someone who's worked in these kind of settings.
6:26
Before, as Clinical Director. I was wondering if you could,
6:29
you know, share with us a little bit.
6:30
Also about the clinical aspects of that timeframe specifically.
6:35
Yeah, absolutely. And as you mentioned Ryan, you
6:37
know, it can be, you know, kind of traditionally.
6:39
We think about these residential levels of care of being like
6:41
these 28 day programs or 30 day programs.
6:44
But to your point, right? Sometimes it's important for
6:47
someone to actually remain at that level for longer, right?
6:49
And I think nowadays maybe in the past 10 to 15 years or so we
6:53
are seeing more of these kind of 90-day models of Well treatment
6:57
emerge and I think that's really based on a lot of research that
7:00
showing for certain individuals longer periods of time in a
7:05
controlled environment to where, you know, there's simply number
7:09
one, no access to those substances and then also, just
7:12
being able to do some deeper work with 24 hour, support can
7:16
really increase 6, you know, chances of successful outcome in
7:19
the long term but a lot of that work would be, you know, group
7:24
therapy individual therapy. Degrading the family into that
7:28
recovery process. Providing education, not only to
7:30
the client, but to the family and again being able to dive in
7:33
and do some really deep intensive work in an in an
7:38
environment that is controlled right where someone doesn't have
7:42
to necessarily worry about having a pretty pretty, big
7:47
emotional response to any particular clinical intervention
7:50
and then that being a trigger for them to fall back into Old
7:53
patterns or behavior or to isolate or to do something
7:56
that's not Going to necessarily be productive and moving them
7:59
along that that Continuum of recovery doing that work in an
8:03
environment to where if they do have a strong emotional
8:06
response, there's clinical, there's medical staff, their
8:09
support staff, to be there with them, to encourage them, to make
8:13
sure that they're safe, and that to make sure that we keep them
8:15
on that track of moving forward and not necessarily regressing.
8:19
Right. Because I think a lot of this
8:21
work that that has to happen is, is deep.
8:25
It is Foucault. And I think a lot of times, you
8:29
know for someone that's really struggling in those early stages
8:32
of recovery, our first response can be going backwards, right?
8:37
Kind of reverting if you will, right?
8:39
So that's why I think it is very important.
8:41
It's very important that we give our self that opportunity to get
8:45
the help that we need an environment that can support us
8:48
until we are stable and ready, enough to kind of step down to a
8:52
lower level of care. And then we have the skills in
8:55
place at that point where we have a better chance of being
8:57
able to navigate things in the real world so to speak.
9:00
Right? Absolutely.
9:01
I, you know, I know from my own personal recovery experience,
9:04
like I really struggled with relapse for a period of time and
9:07
the issue is that I would get, I would get one bad thought and I
9:10
couldn't get it out of there and drugs and alcohol were easily
9:13
available day and that was it. And I think something that I
9:16
think maybe, you know, people don't necessarily give enough
9:22
credit to when they're looking at Residential Treatment as you
9:24
get to spend 30 60 or 90 days with Up the temptation of
9:27
alcohol and drugs, and it seems so basic.
9:29
But we can't underscore how important that is.
9:31
Because there are well-meaning people out there who's been 45
9:34
days doing fantastically and on the 46th day, they get a bad
9:37
idea that they just can't shake. They're not in a healthy
9:40
environment and they can end up doing some real damage.
9:42
You know, we've learned so much about the treatment of
9:49
addiction. And and I think one of the
9:51
things that I really love about working with with professionals,
9:55
like yourself is just that We really believe that people
9:57
deserve the best level of care possible for the settlers,
10:01
absolutely. So, residential provides not
10:03
just that kind of physical removal from alcohol.
10:06
The clinical work that you described it also provides a
10:09
venue for families. Not only to get some rest and
10:12
take a step back and know that their loved one is in a safe
10:16
place but ideally engage in some of that family programming so
10:19
that everyone can engage in this process of recovery, both
10:23
separately and together Absalom post It's Residential Treatment,
10:29
you know, people will be discharged, there is, of course,
10:32
you can't remain in an institution forever, you have to
10:35
venture out into the world. So how do we best equip people
10:38
to do that? Well, there are different ways,
10:40
you know, even though it may not be done directly.
10:43
A lot of times in these treatment settings, people take
10:45
stock of recovery Capital, the things they the resources that
10:49
you have to bear, that would seem to lean towards having a
10:52
good outcome for long-term, sobriety and Recovery depending
10:55
on someone's family. Situation.
10:57
They might be recommended to move into a sober living
10:59
situation, especially for people who live alone.
11:02
People who don't have those methods of accountability built
11:05
into their domestic situation or they're just not coming back to
11:08
a healthy environment. Sober living can be an excellent
11:10
environment. Not only to have that
11:12
accountability built in, but develop a community of recovery,
11:15
which is a huge, huge recovery Capital supplier.
11:18
Absolutely. And this would usually be paired
11:21
with continued group therapy, either at a pH p-- a partial
11:25
hospitalization. G, which is a super scary word.
11:28
When I tell people that they're not familiar with it, but this
11:30
is outpatient programming multiple days a week or an
11:33
intensive outpatient. That's a lower level of care.
11:37
Again, it would be outpatient group therapy that meets several
11:39
times a week and real quick just to add a little bit more color
11:44
there. So that partial hospitalization
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or what we, you know, the acronym is PHP, typically that
11:51
is more days, right? More days more clinical hours
11:54
than an intensive outpatient or Also what we call an IOP and
11:58
then for partial hospitalization, I believe the
12:00
regulations are. I think it's 20 to 25 hours a
12:03
week of Clinical Services. So typically you're seeing that
12:07
is a, you know, a multi-day process, your ego, their kind of
12:10
Monday through Friday. Sometimes the this can even be a
12:13
seven-day-a-week thing but as you said, Ryan that is on an
12:16
outpatient basis, right? Whether you're living at home
12:18
and you're coming in, you know, to the, you know, the facility
12:21
or the building for those services or if you're living in
12:24
a Sober, Sober, home environment and Coming in.
12:27
You are you're coming in each day to a facility to receive
12:30
those services? And then essentially returning
12:32
to the community and in some way has to wear intensive outpatient
12:37
or IOP is usually about 9 to 10 hours a week.
12:40
So similar, right? You're in the community, you're
12:43
the living at home or with the loved one, or whatever.
12:45
That looks like or living in a sober home.
12:47
And then coming in, during during the day to that, that
12:51
intensive outpatient program, where you're receiving and
12:53
usually, you know, kind of a standard the way.
12:56
That most people do this is it's about 3 days a week and you
13:00
usually do 33, our groups, you know, kind of spread throughout
13:03
the week. And then typically, these places
13:06
are also whether you're at the partial hospitalization, level
13:08
of care or the Intensive outpatient level of care.
13:11
You're also doing some individual therapy and typically
13:14
some continued family work as well.
13:16
Absolutely absolutely. Providing those kind of measures
13:19
to support and building a community around you and just
13:23
getting to know what this real life will be like While,
13:27
hopefully, with the coping skills that you've built up in
13:29
your residential treatment and detox.
13:31
Stay, you know the final kind of level of care for what would be
13:34
outpatient care. Probably continuing to see an
13:37
outpatient therapist, continuing to see a psychiatric provider
13:40
for medication management. Ideally one who is specializes
13:43
in addiction and definitely one who is aware of your substance
13:47
use disorder and the history of it.
13:49
And engaging in community support groups, whether it's
13:52
12-step groups, such as alcoholics anonymous or
13:54
Narcotics, Anonymous Dharma, No, or Refuge recovery or smart
13:58
recovery just trying to find that independent that
14:02
Independent Community that can help support you.
14:05
You know, I realize, I mean, as we've talked about this, we've
14:07
talked about highest level of medical Acuity detox and
14:11
residential treatment, 30, 60, or 90 days IOP or PHP.
14:15
That's an additional length of time.
14:17
And then this final outpatient level and I'm sure plenty of
14:19
people who are new to treatment, who are maybe exploring the idea
14:23
of wondering what they can do to separate substances from their
14:26
lives or King, like, how am I going to have the time, right?
14:29
Do this right now. And I was wondering if you had
14:32
any any thoughts, Justin? Because I know that that's a
14:35
common thing that people bring when they become overwhelmed by
14:38
the amount of time, you'll have to invest and absolutely.
14:41
And, you know, I think in, we could, we could kind of speak to
14:44
each level of that. So, you know, I think, you know,
14:46
backing up to those, those inpatient levels of care which
14:49
are detox and that residential treatment, which is, you know,
14:52
underneath the detox level, it is true, right?
14:55
You can't continue. Ooh to work and do those things
14:59
and also be in a residential program.
15:01
It's just those two things typically can't coexist.
15:04
They are some programs out there.
15:06
You know, for someone that may be a high-level executive or
15:09
someone that doesn't have the luxury of being able to
15:12
completely sever ties with their with their job, temporarily so
15:15
that they can get the help. They need.
15:17
There are some programs that are available that you can continue
15:19
to have your electronics, you know, if you need to log in and
15:22
take care of some payroll and things like that, those things
15:25
do exist. We actually They offer some of
15:27
those things here at new Waters recovery.
15:29
If that is a true barrier for someone to be able to come in
15:32
and get the help that they need, there are programs available
15:36
that can allow them to not work necessarily full time, but still
15:40
be able to keep some touch with those responsibilities that they
15:43
have in their life and get, you know, take care of those things.
15:47
So so it would take, I think for most individuals, it would take
15:51
a willingness and also the support, you know, from work,
15:54
and from family, and And friends to provide the space for that
15:59
individual to step away, you know, for potentially months at
16:03
a time to focus on their health, right.
16:06
And I'd like to compare this to because we do view addiction as
16:10
a neurological disease, right? A neurological disorder and and
16:13
I think a lot of times people struggle with that idea of kind
16:17
of pulling away from work and other family, and life
16:20
responsibilities to focus on their treatment.
16:24
But I think it's just very interesting eating to me that if
16:27
someone was was given a potentially terminal diagnosis
16:32
and medical diagnosis and told that they were going to need to
16:36
do that. Same thing to pull out of work
16:37
and other life responsibilities to focus on the treatment.
16:40
It's just interesting to me, how people are usually more likely
16:44
to, to find the ways to get that that freedom, if you will, so
16:49
that they can focus on that medical disease.
16:52
But not so much for the addiction, and I'm so going to
16:56
health, but I would say that it is just as important, right?
17:01
If for us to live a, you know, A Life That's hopefully full of
17:05
freedom and peace and happiness, and just a healthy lifestyle in
17:10
order for us to accomplish, that sometimes it is just crucial for
17:14
us to find a way to let people around us.
17:16
Whether that's our employers, our families support us in a way
17:19
that we can step away and we can truly focus on our On our on our
17:23
health, right? Absolutely.
17:24
And I think also, when we step down to that that partial
17:28
hospitalization, that intensive outpatient level of care, it's a
17:32
lot of time, I mean, we're talking, you know, anywhere from
17:34
10 to 25 hours a week that is a lot of time.
17:38
I think there is a way for someone to maybe kind of return
17:42
to work or still be able to engage in some of those family
17:45
and life responsibilities. But being realistic about the
17:50
fact that it is not going to look the same.
17:52
As if we were not engaged in treatment.
17:55
So it is important again to allow the people around us to
17:58
support us, give us the space that we need to, or we can
18:01
continue to focus on our treatment but then also, I think
18:04
as part of stepping back into to life and finding ways, to cope
18:10
with those. Maybe also taking on some of
18:12
those life responsibilities or maybe even taking on some of
18:16
that work again, but being realistic that it's going to
18:19
probably have to be more part-time type schedule right
18:22
now. Absolutely.
18:23
I think it's really at the Intensive.
18:25
Outpatient level, there's more freedom, you're doing 10 hours a
18:28
week of Clinical Services. I think most people find at that
18:31
level of care, they usually can re-engage in work and other
18:34
responsibilities that they need to attend to, but it's not until
18:38
you get to that true outpatient level where we're talking, you
18:42
know, 125 if you will hours of Clinical Services a week, at
18:46
that point, I think most people are able to find their able to,
18:48
you know, work full-time jobs, you know, attend to their
18:51
families and their life. Abilities.
18:53
And also be able to continue that treatment.
18:55
That's so necessary for them. Absolutely.
18:57
I mean, it just strikes me that really at the end of the day,
19:00
what we're dealing with is battling on, it's an uphill
19:03
battle against stigma and the Deep shame and guilt that
19:06
accompanies that. And just like you said, if
19:08
someone had bone cancer, right? You know, no one's weighing the
19:11
days. No one's saying I'll go in for
19:12
seven days and then come back out.
19:14
But I'm not doing the 30-day program, like it's just not
19:16
going to happen. And there's a real real sad and
19:21
sick belief at the core of this. Is that people with addiction,
19:23
do not deserve the best treatment possible, it's
19:26
unfortunate. But is here people with
19:28
addiction deserve to kind of suffer through things and, and
19:33
just kind of soldier on regardless.
19:35
And, you know, I can't tell you and I know you have this
19:37
experience as well, right? When people are ready for help
19:41
regardless of what they've gone through.
19:42
Before you see employers, you see family members, they stand
19:46
up with open arms, to help this person on to the next level of
19:49
absolutely it. Because at the end of the day,
19:51
we Deeply involved with someone. When you see someone suffering,
19:55
you want them to get better regardless of the nature of the
19:57
ballot e. So it's sad.
19:59
When people have this kind of sense of Shame and guilt, that
20:02
is blocking them from from accessing that care.
20:06
You know, isn't your life worth engaging in this process
20:09
regardless of the amount of time?
20:10
Regardless of, if it was a year, you know, isn't it worth doing
20:14
this so that you can be fully present for others in your life
20:16
and enjoy the fruits of it? Absolutely.
20:20
But it's just, it's just an unfortunate fortunate thing, you
20:23
know, and it's something that, you know, I know, I had to
20:25
personally struggle with, and many others on our staff had to
20:28
as well, only oh, please go ahead.
20:32
I was, I was going to say, I think another thing that's
20:35
important for us to touch on is, you know, and Ryan.
20:37
I think you've probably seen a lot of this as well is, you
20:41
know, when someone does get to a place where they're ready to
20:45
take that step into treatment, you know, similar to what you
20:49
were just saying. I think there's a lot of stigma,
20:51
I think number one, it takes A lot of courage to be willing to
20:55
take that step and just even to entertain the idea of seeking
20:59
treatment takes a lot of Courage, I think.
21:02
But I think something that a lot of people struggle with is this
21:05
idea of like I can just put forth maybe some minimal effort
21:10
or that I can find this kind of one, you know, magical thing
21:13
that I can do and I can spend a minimum amount on a minimal
21:16
amount of time on myself and my treatment and just kind of you
21:20
know, quote-unquote cure the Situation.
21:23
And then I can just get back to living my life.
21:25
And everything should be, should be fine.
21:28
And I wondering if maybe you could speak to the importance, I
21:32
think that we see especially working in this profession of,
21:35
you know, having a solid assessment, and then following
21:38
through, with this Continuum of Care in a way that you can truly
21:42
get the treatment that we need, you know, thoughts on that?
21:44
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think at the end of
21:46
the day, what we're talking about is just best practice,
21:49
right? We're talking about meta studies
21:51
that have been. Um, done on people all across
21:54
the country suffering from this disease and what is the number
21:57
one best track of treatment? You know, I tell people in my
22:00
office all the time, you know, if you had cancer I'm not going
22:03
to recommend the third best chemotherapy.
22:05
I'm not recommending you. The second best course of
22:07
treatment. I'm going to recommend to you
22:09
the best to fight against a fatal malady.
22:11
I think it's a essential, you know, an essential part of the
22:14
recovery process. Well, a befuddling part of the
22:17
recovery process is there was a point in time in which I had
22:20
become unwittingly My Own Worst Enemy.
22:22
And that was in ways that I knew very directly and ways that I
22:25
did not know very directly, especially surrounding my fears
22:28
and anxieties, and these fears and anxieties over issues real
22:31
or imagined would often the strain of those would lead me
22:35
back to a bottle or a bag, you know.
22:38
And so I think I needed a period of threshing time.
22:41
I needed a period of time where I really needed to not make so
22:44
many decisions for a little while because sometimes my
22:47
decisions were good in those periods of time where I was
22:49
struggling to maintain sobriety and sometimes they Completely
22:52
befuddling Lee. Wound me back up at the bottom.
22:56
So just surrendering a little bit and allowing others to guide
23:01
you to some areas that might be it to guide you out of a blind
23:05
spot is just really really important in all other areas of
23:09
our life. We're going to seek medical
23:10
professionals constantly and yet for some reason, when it comes
23:13
to behavioral health and mental health there's just so much
23:16
resistance there, you know? Sure.
23:19
Yeah. I think following that Continuum
23:20
of Care is just essential Oh yeah, absolutely.
23:23
And to your point I think that there's just a profound amount
23:28
of research and also I think just professional experience
23:31
that we see these things live out in real time that you know,
23:36
we want to take this serious. We don't want to continue to
23:39
bounce in and out of treatment or to struggle with this disease
23:42
for any longer than is necessary, right?
23:45
And I think it's important that when someone develops the
23:48
courage and the willingness to take that step that that's you.
23:52
So important step of seeking treatment for their self is
23:56
important to just hit it with everything they have, right?
23:58
And again, I think we're seeing so much research.
24:03
Show that if we start at the most appropriate, level of care,
24:07
whether that be detox residential, that we start at
24:12
that appropriate, level of care, and that we follow the
24:15
recommendations from the professionals involved and
24:17
slowly step down through those levels of care to make sure that
24:21
we are receiving. Being not only just in, you
24:23
know, a time frame but levels of intensity to make sure that we
24:27
are truly getting all of the treatment that we need.
24:31
It just literally is going to greatly impact.
24:37
The the chances of being able to be successful in our recovery
24:39
moving forward, absolutely. There's nothing more
24:42
heartbreaking. And I've seen this multiple
24:43
times where we have someone in my office, we have a suggested
24:47
level of care for whatever reason, they're resistant,
24:49
right? And they end up leaving and then
24:51
we get the call. Three weeks later a month later,
24:54
five weeks later and they're sitting right back in my office
24:57
again, right? You know, we've had experiences
24:59
like that recently and, you know, to cut through that kind
25:02
of the level of sadness and shame and guilt that they talk
25:05
to me. And there's no, there's no
25:06
judgment here. You know what I mean?
25:07
We've all made, plenty of plenty of mistakes in the past, but I
25:11
just wish I could erase the pain and the Damage that they done in
25:14
those months prior. Right.
25:16
And more often than not, they do end up engaging in the
25:18
appropriate level of care. But they've It's cost a lot,
25:23
both resource wise and personally, in the interim.
25:26
Absolutely. So Ryan, what would be one thing
25:29
if there was a family member or, you know, potential identified
25:33
client. That was that was listening or
25:35
watching this? This episode what would be like
25:38
one thing that you would have them take away from all of this?
25:41
Yeah, I think one thing that I would I would really want them
25:46
to take away from it would be to know that it's all right, to ask
25:48
for help. And I think there's a really
25:50
deep belief and it sounds really Cliche and like it would, you
25:53
know come on the underside of a yogurt container or something
25:56
like that but that that that it's okay to ask for help and if
26:00
you can't speak openly and transparently about something to
26:03
somebody, you got to find someone to speak that stuff too.
26:06
And it's probably because there's a lot of Shame and guilt
26:08
surrounding that issue. So to be candid with someone
26:10
ideally a professional about, where you're at, there's a great
26:15
deal of relief that can come from that.
26:17
And they can guide you on a course towards getting some
26:19
real, some real healing and wholeness, you know, Absolutely.
26:23
Well said, Ryan. Well said, I guess in closing, I
26:27
would say especially again you know to anybody that's listening
26:30
to this or watching. That is a family member.
26:34
That is maybe looking into treatment options for a loved
26:37
one or maybe you're someone that is struggling with addiction
26:39
yourself. And you're just trying to find
26:41
out, what's the first step. What do I do?
26:44
I think you know my biggest recommendation is the best place
26:47
to start is a conversation with a professional, right?
26:51
And here at new Waters were Every Army, we have those
26:53
conversations on a daily basis, all you have to do is just call
26:57
us and we will free of charge. I mean, we will have a
27:00
conversation with. You will do will gather some
27:03
history on what's been going on and we'll try to help navigate
27:06
whether that's with us or with another provider that is going
27:09
to meet your needs. I think that is the best step.
27:13
And that's not only with us, I think any other high quality
27:16
program around whether that's in the state of North Carolina or
27:19
across the country or the world for that matter that is Always
27:22
the best. The first best step into Ryan to
27:24
your point. I think, having the willingness
27:27
in the courage to ask for help can give you the opportunity to
27:32
get a professional on the phone or, you know, on an internet
27:35
chat or whatever. That is to be able to just start
27:37
that conversation about like hey you know openly and honestly
27:40
this is what's going on with me and and let someone provide that
27:44
guidance about what that that first step can look like and
27:48
really in my opinion. I mean taking that first step
27:50
and being willing can open the Worse to so many other things to
27:54
where we just don't have to struggle with this stuff for the
27:55
rest of our life, you know? Absolutely, it's another cliche,
27:59
but it's always been very powerful to me, you know,
28:01
someone told me one time. Listen, you never have to drink
28:03
ever ever again, and it's so simple and such a basic fact,
28:08
but if you are struggling with this or you have a loved one who
28:10
is struggling with this, they never have to do it ever ever
28:14
again and they have the chance to put this thing in the ground.
28:16
You know, it's just going to take some willingness and and
28:21
and some Um, some real open-mindedness and willing to
28:24
go to some places, some scary places both as a family and as
28:28
an individual. But it's the best, you know?
28:30
I say this all the time, right? It is the best time in the
28:33
history of man to have addiction issues.
28:35
And if you're in America, you're in the best possible country to
28:37
receive really quality services. So, if you're struggling with
28:41
this or thinking about it, just take advantage while you can,
28:43
you know, you don't have to live in that confusing morass of
28:49
gross, emotional weight of. I've engaged in this, Compulsive
28:52
behavior that I don't like, you don't have to live in that again
28:55
and again and again anymore, you know, absolutely completely
28:58
agree. Well Ryan, I appreciate you
29:01
hanging out with me and taking some time to discuss this topic.
29:04
I know we both feel very passionately about this
29:06
specifically and hopefully anybody that's watching or
29:10
listening, hopefully, everybody's learned a little
29:12
something from this. And again, if there's any way
29:13
that we can help, that is literally what we love to do,
29:16
right? So we'd love to help any way
29:18
that we can thank you guys. Thank you so much just now.