Latest / Houselights: A Film Director Podcast / Monty Python and the Holy Grail (1975) - Terry Gilliam | Houselights #149: Wing of King Arthur

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Monty Python and the Holy Grail (1975) - Terry Gilliam | Houselights #149: Wing of King Arthur · Houselights: A Film Director Podcast

0:03
Welcome to the Nerd Polite. Welcome back to house Lights, and I am
0:22
joined this week. I am night John Mills, and I'm joined with fellow
0:26
Knights of the Roundtable Tristan Mradell and Darren Moser, and we regret to inform
0:31
you that the former producers of house Lights have been sacked and the people that
0:35
sacked them have also been sacked. And tonight's performance is in fact produced by
0:40
Ralph the wander Lama. So we are here, obviously to discuss in our
0:46
continuing wing of King Arthur, the next film, the next entry, as
0:50
we leap into nineteen seventy five with Monty Python and the Holy Grail, which
0:56
believe it or not, counts as part of the Arthur pantheon in the way
0:59
we reckon things. So here we are in nineteen seventy five with a couple
1:06
of coconuts carried by some sort of swallow and uh, you know, gents,
1:12
instead of kicking off with our typical thing of like when's the first time
1:15
you remember, Like, we'll get to that one, but I want to
1:19
ask Darren, I'll kick this off to you first, which night of the
1:23
round Table do you see yourself most reflected in this depiction of King Arthur's You
1:30
know, that's a good question. I think that I think John Cleese's character
1:38
lance a lot lance a lot. Yeah, Okay, he's so dry and
1:44
so funny, but he's he is trying. He's just he makes things so
1:48
much worse as he goes. But again, they all do that. But
1:52
yes, I think lance a Lot is. I probably feel a kinship to
1:56
him more more than although the science one is pretty funny too. I don't
2:01
know why I'm not remembering their names, but well, you know, I'm
2:05
all the time. But you know what I mean though, So let's be
2:07
honest that who who's playing whom in this is not as important as the gags
2:14
or just knowing who Arthur is. But trust in the same question, to
2:16
you, which night of the round table do you see yourself reflected in in
2:20
this Monty Python adaptation of the King Arthur legend. Probably Galahad. Yes,
2:25
that was very That was very much me in high school, just women throwing
2:30
themselves at me and me saying no, no, I can't, I mustn't.
2:34
Just a little bit of peril. Yeah, I would have to say,
2:38
honestly, I don't see myself as a knight of the round Table,
2:40
I'd say that I'm probably the wizard tim Is. I think that would be
2:46
fair at this junction. But obviously, when you're talking about Monty Python and
2:52
the Holy Grail, you're talking about something that is regarded as it's one of
2:55
the pillars of comedy in the last fifty some odd years. It is a
3:00
constant reference point. It is referred to throughout popular culture. Even if people
3:06
haven't seen this, they've at least heard a joke or two from it.
3:09
So, Tristan, when was your first encounter with Monty Python and the Holy
3:15
Grail? Was it? Were you a wee lad? Was it something you
3:17
watched with your dad or was this something you stumbled upon later in life?
3:22
This was actually shown to me in high school in English class. Oh wow,
3:28
and this was we were actually studying King Arthur and the legend and everything
3:32
about it and the historical reference, the literary references, and as a treat
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she, my English teacher, showed this movie and you could tell she was
3:42
super excited to show it to us. And when the movie ended, she's
3:47
like, and that's it, guys, That's that's just it. And it
3:51
just goes on and on like it goes on for a couple of minutes,
3:53
like it's black and it's it's hilarious. It just goes on like this,
3:57
and she you could tell like it was it was a little infectious, just
4:00
because she was so excited, like you you got excited too to watch it,
4:03
and I think we Kimberly, I can't remember if she broke it up
4:08
into two days. I mean she had to have write you know, she
4:10
must have broken it up into two days, or if I can't remember if
4:13
we had a long day that day or whatever, I mean there is that
4:15
was intermission, so you just yeah, that was the first That was the
4:18
first time I ever watched it. Now, that does not include the constant
4:24
barrage of gangly kids walking through the whole halls quoting this movie, the ones
4:30
with bad skin and bad teeth, just talking all about this movie all the
4:33
time, you know, like yeah, like if we don't include that for
4:38
a decade, then yes, yes, that was the first time I saw
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it in high school. Yeah, your story about that, about the constant
4:45
references, just it brings to mind for me like my own struggles with Hitchhiker's
4:48
Guide to the Galaxy, where I had to say to friends that I had
4:53
in high school in college, I said, as soon as one of you
4:55
knuckleheads can go a week without mentioning the damn thing, I will read it.
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And I didn't read it till I was out of college. So there
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you go. Darren, the same question to you. Were you a young
5:04
lad when you encountered this. Was it a crazy uncle corrupting your sense of
5:09
humor? Or was it similarly high school time? Uh no, this is
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kind of the same as the Princess Bride that we also talked about. This
5:17
was a camp video. This was a working at summer camp, and you
5:21
know, we went to the box car and pulled out that giant you know,
5:25
fifty n CRT on the cart. Everybody got their sleeping bags and pillows,
5:30
and you knew that some like half the people probably had seen whatever movie
5:33
was going to be and the other rest we're gonna be indoctrinated into whatever,
5:39
you know, cult classic. Pretty much all was cult classic type of movies
5:42
that we watched at summer And yeah, so I guess well we did.
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The whole rest of the summer was quote finety five on like on the radio
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and on our little notes on our clipboards and just all throughout the summer,
5:56
and yeah, it's you know, I kind of feel add for people who
6:00
watch it and don't have an outlet to express the quotes, because if you're
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in school, or if you're at you know, a job that allows that
6:10
or something like that, it's so much more enjoyable because it is such a
6:14
quotable movie. And We've said many times, or I've said many times that
6:17
the mark of a good comedy is often directly linked with its quotability. It's
6:24
a major factor. It is a major factor. And I think that one
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of the things that's really interesting about Monty Python and the Holy Grail is,
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you know, Tristan, I'll throw this to you first. You know,
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whether I'm reading this right or not, but I think this is one of
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those things that winds up unintentionally spoiling comedy for a while afterward, because I
6:46
think people are still trying to chase this dragon in terms of the regardless of
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whether somebody loves it or hates it or is lukewarm about it, there's a
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certain type of magic that this movie captures. There's a certain sort of like
7:01
odd ball off the rails type of humor that's happening here, and it's this.
7:06
If the alchemy works for you, it's absolute magic. And even if
7:11
it doesn't work for you, you see that this is the work of some
7:13
slightly disturbed minds, really just throwing everything at you at once. I think
7:17
it winds up, and I'm not saying that like it winds up being a
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net negative. I'm saying that there are directors to this day who are still
7:25
trying to capture this type of magic, and it becomes one of those things
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where it's a classic that can never be recaptured, but people nonetheless keep going
7:36
after it. Man, I cannot wait to find out what this question is.
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Do you agree with that statement? Was that the question? Yeah?
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Do you say? I said, I wanted to find out if you agree
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with this? No idea? What the question is? Oh, that's because
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you're not a close listener. I was talking about everything. I said,
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Yeah, it's a wind up. Do you agree with that or not?
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I have no idea. You know what I'm agreeing with that that people are
8:03
trying to chase that that feeling. Yes, I'll state it in fewer words
8:09
for you that this is a very funny movie that makes such an impact that
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it winds up having an effect where people who aren't as skilled as the people
8:18
who put this one together keep trying to find the type of magic that this
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movie has contained within it to varying levels of success. Well, I mean,
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I don't know if I can answer that really, because I feel like
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if you if you're chasing something, you're usually chasing success. I mean,
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if you look at how you know, the cast and crew look at this
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movie, they look at it unfavorably because they hated filming it when they filmed
8:48
it, but this was by far, in a way, their most successful
8:52
film. Like I think that they the cast believes that Life of Brian is
8:56
their best film, but it's nowhere nearest accessful as Holy Grail. But in
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terms of people who are this is influenced, I mean, this came out
9:05
in seventy five, and I mean people you know who were at their prime
9:09
in seventy five, you know, went on to be directors and like,
9:13
well, I'm guessing like McKay or right. Yeah, That's what I'm saying
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is I'm saying that people just like people refer to Star Wars as a landmark
9:24
thing, and you can see this effect that Star Wars has afterward, I
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think that Holy Grail winds up being one of those things that has that sort
9:28
of effect. And I have trouble sometimes sussing out whether that's a positive or
9:33
negative thing, because it is such an odd movie to have such an impact.
9:39
I haven't really I can't really say that I've seen too much evidence of
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people chasing this because this movie is so unique to its time and to its
9:46
audience and to its style. I mean, this is Gilliam, this is
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this is Terry Gilliam's first film, first feature length film, and you can
9:56
still see some Gilliam in there. And you know, this is a director's
10:00
podcast, so we should absolutely talk about Gilliam. And you know, like
10:03
was other works, you know something like you know anywhere from Brazil to Quixote.
10:09
There are certain things that are very much him. But I mean,
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like with the like with the with the slapstick jokes, with the nonsensical storyline,
10:20
with the animation thrown in, with the metajokes, everything like that put
10:26
together, I can't I'd say that this is a very unique movie, and
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I can't stay off the top of my head where I've seen it try to
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be reproduced whether it was successful or failed. Yeah. I mean the thing
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is, I don't have an opinion. That's why I'm asking the question,
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Like I think that there it's more of a tonal thing where I think that's
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what's unsuccessfully chased by other directors. Is that sense of self awareness works here
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really well, that sense of self awareness you're pointing to, and Darren I
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would say that there are a lot of movie that come along all the way
11:01
up to this day where they have a sense of self awareness and they never
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they never figure out how to break the fourth wall in the same way that
11:07
this one does. Yeah, I agree with Tristan. I can't really see
11:13
a correlation of like, oh yeah, well, then these three movies in
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the early eighties, you could see they were really trying to capture that because
11:20
it is such a one off. It's like the right people, the right
11:24
type of humor. It's a real specific humor. It's a dry humor,
11:28
it's a it's a zany humor. Given more moments to think about it than
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Tristan had, I probably maybe Deadpool is the closest thing I could think of
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that like also kind of breaks that fourth wall, but that is more because
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it's Deadpool and not because it's trying to capture the spirit of Monty Python ago
11:50
no joke. But yeah, but overall, I think, if anything,
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maybe it just gave a shot in the arm to comedies in general. Maybe
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not capturing the Monty Python nos, but like, hey, comedies can be
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successful because something. You know, we've all seen the waves of comedy movies,
12:11
like we had a lot of those. Well this is probably way more
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in like the late nineties, early thousands, but you had all those duplicating
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movies like you know, scary Movie and like where they're making fun of tropes
12:24
like to the extreme. Yeah, I mean, it's it's interesting because as
12:30
we're sitting here talking about it, the year before this, both Young Frankenstein
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and Blazing Saddles come out, and those both have a very similar sort of
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vibe and a similar sort of self awareness. So maybe it is just something
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where there was a wave of this sort of thing. But testing to get
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back to what you're talking about with Gilliam as a director, you know,
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oh, this is a troubled production. In the cast hated making it.
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Gilliam has a track record of troubled productions. One would say, do you
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think that that's just he was basically the production behind the scenes, with this
13:03
winds up being a warning sign to everybody that every film that he works on
13:07
it is going to be a bit challenging. Do you think that he just
13:09
never like is it just his working style? Do you see you know,
13:13
projected projected forward to those other movies you mentioned that he did. Do you
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see all of the seeds there in this movie? Do you see those sorts
13:22
of sensibilities already come to fruition or do you see somebody without any vision on
13:26
this one? I think Gilliam, well, I mean, Gilliam is a
13:31
certified nut job, but true, you know, his his uh the craziness
13:37
that has happened on his sets in the future. To say that they were
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linked to him here might be too much of a stretch because like he's he's
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young, he's inexperienced, you know, they're all in this together. Like
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this is the type of production where like they didn't even buy a rabbit,
13:56
like they they they they had it loaned by an owner, you know,
14:01
for the for the for the killer rabbit. You know, like that that's
14:05
like the reason why there's coconuts in the first places because they couldn't afford horses,
14:09
like, you know, I like I think Pink Floyd helped give some
14:16
money to this movie by giving proceeds of Dark Side of the Moon because they
14:20
were such fans of the circus. And it's like that, like that's like
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they could not get funding for this movie. Like they had to scratch and
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steal and rob and borrow and in order to make this movie. And so
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I think to blame all those production problems on Gilliams being gilliam being a crazy
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person or like having production problems in the future is a bit too much,
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But it is kind of a coincidence. So I'd say it's more of just
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the situation than it is him. And if they got a more experienced director,
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if they got more of an experienced director who you know, maybe was
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doing this as a favor, saying like, Okay, I'll be the journeyman,
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I'll help you guys out, you know, I'll get this product in
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going. It probably would have been better. But with gilliam and being inexperienced,
15:05
I'm sure it didn't help. You know. I think that maybe that
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that's the reformulation of the question right there, or the the idea right there
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is that since this is his first film and this is how that went,
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he did not have the type of experience on his first film that Gate that
15:22
taught him discipline or production management, he thought, you know, obviously he
15:26
gets there to a certain extent, because there are definitely successes in his you
15:31
know, in his filmography, and a lot of there there are a lot
15:35
of terrific Brazil is one of my favorite films of all time, and I
15:39
love The Fisher King as well. And The Man who killed Don Quixote is
15:43
actually a very interesting failure to borrow a term that I've used for David Lyncho's
15:48
Dune. But it's, uh, it's one of those things where, Darren,
15:52
do you think that this is the type of experience that basically, you
15:56
know, it winds up being something that doesn't encourage the discipline that maybe another
16:03
you know, if he'd had somebody steering him through the process. Because Terry
16:07
Jones, I believe, is also credited on this, at least like a
16:11
dual direction, Terry the Terry's, Yeah, the Terry's. I kind of
16:18
remember seeing some behind the scenes things about it, like I don't remember what
16:21
percentage it really worked out between them, or if one of them left or
16:25
was upset or I can't remember. I'm sure it was tumultuous, because it
16:27
sounds like this whole production was. But I will say I don't think this
16:33
movie works with a more experienced director coming in. I think the magic sauce
16:40
of it's one of the it's one of them inside the troop. Who is
16:45
the director. It's it's like the difference between Jonathan Fraakes directing a star Trek
16:51
and someone else coming in from the outside and making Trek. I think,
16:57
you know, granted, like it sounds like it was, you know,
17:02
a bear to shoot, but I think because you have this magical alchemy of
17:08
this particular troop, you know, acting comedy troop and all of the issues
17:14
they had so like yeah, like the cookonut thing, I think because you
17:18
had a comedian in the director's chair, they were able to pivot and be
17:23
like, Okay, well, how do we make that funny? How do
17:27
we work with that? And that becomes one of the best bits of the
17:30
entire movie. And instead if they were just like, Okay, well we
17:37
have no horses so or we have horses for one day, so we can
17:41
shoot and we have to always be going up to the same castle because that's
17:44
the one shot we have, Like, yeah, it would kind of work.
17:47
But so again, not to dissect into the entire movie, but I
17:51
think I think two of the strong benefits of this movie is the fact that
17:56
you have someone from their troop who is in the director's chair, and so
18:00
they're able to pivot on the low budgetness of it. Like, I don't
18:06
think this movie works as if someone did come along, you know, in
18:10
in a magical world and be like, hey, here's three million dollars Monty
18:15
Python make this movie, I think you would get a completely different movie that
18:18
would not nearly be as funny because through adversity they crafted. That's where half
18:25
the jokes come from. It feels like it's from the adversity. That's a
18:29
fair point. That's a very fair point. I think that what's interesting is
18:34
I have lost sight over time, and I wouldn't be very clear. I'll
18:38
go ahead and spoil it. I adore this film, but I don't know
18:42
if I adore this film half as much as I adore everything it's given me
18:47
over time, if that makes sense, because if I look film right,
18:52
But it was very, very instrumental in Monty Python Flying Circus, Monty Python
18:59
and The Holy Grade Life of Brian. All that stuff very very influential in
19:03
helping form my sense of humor as I grew up. I watched Monty Python's
19:07
Flying Circus with my dad on PBS for God's sake, right, And I
19:11
didn't see this until later, you know, I was a teenager and some
19:15
friends showed it to me. It was oh, Monty Python did a movie.
19:18
No, I didn't know that, and I saw it. I was
19:19
like, this is amazing. I love this. So I'd sort of been
19:22
primed for it because I've watched the Sketch Comedy Show. But there are so
19:26
many things about this production, whether it's because of its troubles or in spite
19:32
of its troubles, where there's kind of a script, it's really just sort
19:37
of shooting from the hip, which is part of its charm. But trusted.
19:41
We talk about this all the time about nostalgia glasses. Is it possible
19:45
to view this movie without thick nostalgic glasses on? If you were to show
19:52
this to somebody who's never seen Monty Python before, who has never grown up
19:56
with this, and you show it to them. Do you think you wind
20:02
up creating a new Monty Python fan or do you get somebody who looks at
20:04
it and says, yeah, okay, all right, I want that same
20:08
question after him. I don't think so. I think this takes a very
20:15
unique This takes a very unique type of person to enjoy this. I think
20:21
you you have to have nostalgia on it. I do not think this is
20:23
universal. I do not think this is timeless. I feel like this is
20:27
something that is geared towards the rejected, the kind of in the same way
20:34
that people like anime. You're like, oh, that's a type of person
20:37
who likes that, you know, Like, I feel like it's the same
20:40
people who like Monty Python. Is it's a it's a subsect of people who
20:45
enjoy this. And I when I told my wife what we were doing next,
20:48
and when I said, I was like, Oh, we're doing Monty
20:49
Python the Holy Girl, She's like, I was like, what's wrong.
20:55
She's like, I dated a guy who made me watch this like three times
20:59
as many weeks and he wouldn't shut up about it, he wouldn't stop quoting
21:03
it, and she was just done with it to begin with. And I'd
21:07
only seen this once before podcasting about I saw it once in high school and
21:11
then I never watched it again until preparation for this podcast, and I had
21:14
a wildly different reaction to it than I did in high school as I did
21:18
yesterday. I'm sure. But Darren, you said you wanted this question as
21:23
well, so knock it over to you. Yeah. Well, I mean
21:26
my experience, so yeah, And I think I think you're right, Tristan.
21:32
I think you know, there are people who like Mighty Python, and
21:34
there's people it's not it's type of humor. It is a very specific type
21:38
of humor. Now. I showed this to my daughter a couple of months
21:42
back, and she's eleven, and I show her the entire thing except the
21:47
castle. Anthrax were not quite ready for that. But she loves it.
21:52
She was cackling. I think her favorite part was probably the sir land.
22:00
It's a lot like running up multiple take, which is just such a funny
22:06
bit because it happens so many times. I think it happens like seven,
22:11
like it happens two, three more times than you would think. Like you
22:15
would think the beat would drop and it would move, but it doesn't.
22:18
But she loved it. It was cackling and laughing. And so when you
22:23
know, often sometimes my wife or kids will ask me, oh, what
22:27
are you watching this week because they know I have a directing podcast, And
22:30
I said, oh, we're doing my new Python, and she's like,
22:33
oh, Dad, I want to watch it with you. Can we watch
22:34
it together? So I, you know, made sure we had time one
22:37
evening last week to watch it. And it was interesting for myself watching it
22:44
because I hadn't watched it basically a month apart like that back to back in
22:48
a long while. Like usually it's like once a year, maybe I'll put
22:52
it in. You know, I remember it a lot, so I don't
22:56
need to, you know, refresh that often. But it was still it
23:00
was still really funny, and and so I'll say that is I think it
23:06
is definitely possible for it to make new fans if that's their type of humor,
23:11
if that is not their type of humor, just like any other comedy,
23:15
you know, people could watch mel Brooks films or other types of comedy
23:19
and be like, it's just the jokes aren't aren't landing. I don't know
23:25
what percentage of the populace is money Python humor, and maybe there's also a
23:33
component of exposure, meaning you know, trusting. Like you said, your
23:37
wife was exposed to it in a non real pleasant way, and so she
23:41
kind of got a negative, a bad taste in the mouth, versus my
23:45
daughter seeing it with her dad, and we share enough humor genes to the
23:51
pole think it's funny. So yeah, that's that's how I form my answer.
23:57
I wound up being team Darren on this one because I did show this
24:00
to my oldest and while it's not like her favorite movie, she got a
24:06
quite a chuckle out of it, and she got all the jokes, and
24:07
she thought it was funny as hell, and it she liked it enough that
24:11
we did wind up watching Life of Brian afterward, which she does like more.
24:17
And I will fully concede in terms of a film is and it's much
24:22
more a film than this one. This is very much sketches like strung together.
24:27
This this literally, I think one of the charms. And I can
24:33
honestly say that if you showed this to me cold now, I would have
24:37
a very warm feeling for it, because I have a weak spot for things
24:41
that are just batass crazy, and this has the verve of a bunch of
24:48
friends, talented friends getting together and saying, let's do this thing, Let's
24:53
have some fun. And so it has that energy of like an El Mariachi
25:00
or some other independent film that doesn't have a lot of funding, and it's
25:06
just people going out and going smash mouth and having a great time with it.
25:10
And I consider that energy infectious because and this is the type of movie
25:15
where I would look at it and I would say I can honestly say that
25:18
while nostalgia makes me treat it as if it's, you know, part of
25:22
Star Wars lure for me. Like I was saying right before we started recording,
25:27
I've easily seen this movie nearly as many times as some of the Star
25:30
Wars movies, right and I've seen I've seen those quite a bit, and
25:34
I have it committed so much to memory I could probably do it from beginning
25:38
to finish right now without a pause. But I think it's fair and I
25:45
think you're both saying sort of a similar thing. If this type of comedy
25:48
works for you, this film is going to work for you. And in
25:52
terms of your wife Tristan having an unpleasant experience with it, I guarantee you
25:57
that there are at least two women in the world who hate Star Wars because
26:03
of me, And there's my association with it. So you know, you
26:07
got a grade on a curve on that sort of thing. But bringing it
26:11
back to Gilliam and bringing it back to putting something like this together for all
26:17
of the problems, for all of the criticisms that one might have, Tristan,
26:22
isn't it an accomplishment that he put this together at all? For whatever
26:27
flaws you might see with it? For however, well it works for you,
26:32
given what you know about how strapped they were for cash, how they
26:36
were flying by the seat of their pants. Isn't putting together something that winds
26:40
up landing as well as it has for so many isn't that in and of
26:42
itself a testament to his skill or at least his nation's skill. Here,
26:48
well, I think you know it makes you wonder, like it is it
26:52
Gilliam and Jones's ability? Is it? The Troop's ability? Is it?
26:57
You know? Like this thing is you know, how many years old now?
27:00
It's just like it's it's on so many lists of top comedies of all
27:04
time, you know, like it's influenced so many different people. I think
27:10
yeah, like it's enduring. It obviously has an audience, and it's it's
27:15
this isn't just a cult following like this is this is, This has a
27:18
gigantic following. So like I think being able to say that they put anything
27:22
together that, I mean, the legacy is the answer to that question.
27:27
I want to ask this because like, it's so tough. This is one
27:32
of those one of those ones where it's really tough I think to really discuss
27:37
it in any way that anybody else hasn't before. So I'm going to give
27:41
it a try. Here, I want to say, Darren, the music
27:44
that everybody dreads and hates. In terms of the music here, we know
27:51
that this goes on and we now have Spam a Lot, which is a
27:55
Broadway musical based on this. The musical numbers in this movie, you know,
28:02
or the either the music for the fight scenes, the themes that you
28:04
hear, the theme song for Camelot. Do you think they add to the
28:11
overall experience or do you think it's just as slap dash as the production itself.
28:15
No, I really like the score to this movie at literally the entire
28:21
time we've been talking. I don't know why, but the part where the
28:26
mastheadship is sailing up at the very end, that part is playing on like
28:30
loop in my head and I can't make it stop. But yeah, the
28:33
it's like da da da da da da da, and it's just it's just
28:37
playing. But no, there's there's a lot of great music there's and it's
28:44
it's a soundscape. It's it's not just the music cues. It's the chanting
28:48
monks in one scene, and you know, it's the you know, the
28:53
rhyming bridge keeper, Like that's music too. That's part of the makeup of
28:59
this, you know, this film. But yeah, there's still a lot
29:03
of fun parts. I've totally kind of forgotten about the Camelot part, which
29:07
is literally just a song and a jingle thrown in, but it's it's really
29:11
funny because of how it's like, actually, no, never mind, we're
29:15
not we're not gonna go there. I've seen fans who have made like a
29:22
lego version of that song where it's all animated and stop motion lego just that
29:26
clip, and it's really funny. But yeah, I mean, as the
29:30
man who you know says he can't enjoy a score without themes based on characters,
29:37
which is not really the case in this there's just it is a hodgepodge
29:41
of stuff. But I think it works. I think it's it's memorable.
29:45
I just saw there's a actual kind of soundtrack, and I'm kind of interested
29:48
of tracking that down so I can just have that. I'm looking at the
29:53
names of the of the tracks and they don't quite match what I would expect
30:00
from I can't remember what scenes are connected to just by those names. But
30:04
but no, I think I think it works. But I also want to
30:10
say overall, I think, you know, back to Gilium, I think
30:14
this is a in the edit movie. This probably had a substantial editing process
30:22
of like how do we assemble what we rightly know is a tangently at best
30:30
related sequence of bits together And that's where you find you know, the and
30:37
I don't know if it was like the Lancelot running bit, Like I don't
30:41
know if that was found in the edit or if that was planned. You
30:44
know, it could be either or it could be you know, on the
30:47
set they're like, oh, what if we just clipped it and clipped it?
30:49
But you know, there's so many moments in this movie that are funny
30:52
because of the edit, and it was interesting. Like I said, I
30:57
hadn't watched this so in proximity to a previous watch in a long while,
31:03
so this time I was noticing more of, oh, yeah, they're they're
31:08
kind of just on the ground, Like I recognize that tree and that thing
31:14
in the back. Like they literally probably filmed a lot of this in like
31:18
fifty square meters of space and just shot it from different angles to make it
31:22
look like and it was a little more apparent than I had noticed in the
31:26
past of how uh, you know conservative they had to be in their angles
31:32
to just make it look like they were trousing all over Great Britain. But
31:37
but yeah, so overall though, I think this isn't in the edit movie
31:41
probably with a giant deadline, you know, staring them down to get it
31:44
done. But I think it's integral to the type of humor and the because
31:51
that's what humor is. It's the it's the rise, the fall, the
31:52
punchline, the you know, I mean the intermission thrown in the whole opening
31:57
credits, Like I feel like those are things that were like, how do
32:00
we add to the run time, but how do we want people to feel
32:05
going into the start of this movie? Because those credits create a feeling,
32:08
create a expectation like that's not like any other credits we've seen before. And
32:15
then you get the you know, to the intermission, which lasts like I
32:19
could totally see the joke of some people, because I mean, intermissions aren't
32:22
as much a thing nowadays, but they were back in the seventies. So
32:25
I could see people starting to get up from their seat and they're walking away
32:30
and they're like halfway down the island, and then the movie comes back on
32:32
and they're like, what the And then they kind of laugh because they're like,
32:36
they did that on purpose. They purposely tricked me into getting out of
32:39
my seat. But we're not going to see that joke because we're not in
32:43
the theaters in nineteen seventy five. Yeah, that's a great point, and
32:46
I'm glad that you mentioned editing, because if there's something that Tristan really loves
32:51
to hate when he doesn't like the way it's done, it's editing. Tristan,
32:57
do you agree with Darren that this was found in the edit and do
32:59
you think that that's because of the skill of John Hackney, the editor,
33:02
or do you think that it's just jokes and a blender. I think it's
33:07
just jokes and a blender. But I think with a movie this cheap,
33:12
so much of it has to your editor is your savior. It's it's it
33:17
actually can go one of two ways. When a movie's really cheap. You
33:21
can get an editor who can reuse stuff that you would never think possible,
33:25
can reorient stuff, can can find little moments in fast cutting that really sell
33:30
the joke, like you know, Lencelot kicking the bridesmaid in the chest or
33:35
or anything like that. You know, like it flashes on so quickly.
33:37
And other times, if you have a really cheap movie, the editor,
33:40
the editor is like, okay, well I put a B next to B
33:45
and B next to C and see next to D for you. Hope,
33:47
hope that works because that's all that they have. So it really all depends
33:51
on the production. But with these guys, I'm sure they ran a lot
33:55
of film during these takes, and they had a lot of takes to work
34:00
with, so I'd say the editor probably had even though this was cheaply made,
34:05
they had a lot of stuff, a lot of comedic moments to work
34:07
with in order to get that moment. So a comedic editor is worth their
34:13
weight in gold. Even you know, Gilliam prides himself and being a technical
34:17
director, where you know, before this he was really only used to animation,
34:23
and so you know, it's it's a very technical medium and animation like
34:28
knowing where everything is and the figures and placing everything in the frame, and
34:30
a lot of the actors said that that's how he treated them, where they
34:34
weren't really people, they were just things to be moved around. And watching
34:37
this, I didn't get that sense that this was a technical director because the
34:43
cinematography, like certain angles that were shot up just like really, that's where
34:46
you want to put the camera, okay, Like it felt like they just
34:50
kind of put the sticks down and we're like, okay, we got like
34:53
five minutes in this light in this location that we're not supposed to be Sometimes
34:59
it felt like that. So, yeah, I give praise to the editor
35:01
for this one. Even though I don't think it was a particularly well edited
35:06
film, I think it utilized what it had in order to get the job
35:09
done. Yeah. I think they had lots of takes, except for the
35:13
take of the guy falling into the crevasse, because it was the exact same
35:16
shot every time. Whether it be night or which again is funny because when
35:24
you notice that, it's funny how it's the same shot or this time for
35:29
the first time, I noticed in the storming of the Castle with Lancelot that
35:36
that main room that they're in, the one you look down from really high
35:40
and all the wedding parties there, that's the same room that the Sun and
35:45
his dad are in, just that same corner, the same door. It's
35:50
just been dressed differently. I didn't ever realize they reuse that exact same room
35:54
twice. They just changed it and shot just that corner to be the upstairs
36:00
you know, locked away room, but it's the exact same the window and
36:04
the doors all line up. It's just I'm like, oh again, they
36:07
probably had just so little to work with they had to make it all work.
36:12
I think that, I mean, the editor doesn't go on to do
36:17
anything of real note after this. He continues working, obviously, and he's
36:23
you know, good enough to continue getting jobs. But this isn't like a
36:29
you know, you know, an absolute like Stewart baired level effort here.
36:35
I think that I don't have a problem with the editing. I also don't
36:39
have a problem with the way that it's shot. Because there's a read of
36:45
this movie that I've heard from one person in the past, and it always
36:49
stuck with me that the movie is actually a bunch of people who had His
36:55
read of the movie was that the movie is a bunch of people who have
36:59
escaped from an asylum and are wreaking havoc on the countryside. Now that's his
37:05
own personal thing, But I think that, you know, let me throw
37:07
this to you, Tris, and would it soften your view on this if
37:10
you because I've gone and I've you know, every we all know a ton
37:15
of people, and almost every person I've spoken to has a different interpretation of
37:20
what's really happening on screen. Everybody agrees jokes are funny, but everybody is
37:24
sort of coming at it with their own flavor of what's actually happening. Do
37:30
you think that that is a function of a well made movie or do you
37:35
think that that is the function of a poorly made movie? That uh,
37:38
you know, there's that everybody can have so many different takes on what's happening.
37:44
Once again, I'm going to have to answer your questions with ambiguity,
37:47
where I don't think it's a sign of either, I feel like when I
37:52
get when I get questions like this from certain people, Like there was one
37:54
time I was I hated a movie. I absolutely hated it, and there
37:59
was this guy who was fending it and he says, you know, he's
38:02
like, well, he's like, well you felt something, right, you
38:06
felt something that's the sign of a good movie. And I said it was
38:08
like, I was like, so does a steaming pile of dog crap?
38:12
That makes me feel discussed? But that doesn't mean I enjoy what I'm seeing.
38:15
And so with the whole interpretation issue, like you know, like a
38:21
lot of people will think of stuff like Nolan's ending in Inception, where there's
38:24
us like what's your interpretation, what's real, what's not? And it's all
38:29
about the experience that you take away from that. I don't think this is
38:31
one of those movies. Basically, it's not that deep, you know,
38:36
it's it's it's a collection of bits that they're stringing together through one through line.
38:40
I don't and I don't take anything away from that. I think that
38:45
the person I'm referring to had a very very unique take, and I think
38:50
that's why I've only ever run across that interpretation all of once in my entire
38:52
life, Darren, when you come to this movie and you watch it,
38:59
and you said, you know, you watch it every so often, you
39:00
don't necessarily watch it, you know, twice within a month of each other
39:04
sort of thing. But when you come to this movie and you watch it,
39:07
what is it what is it that you're looking to experience again? What
39:10
is it that you're looking to recapture when you rewatch Monty Python and the Holy
39:14
Grail. I just the laughs. I mean I remember, I think it
39:22
was Kung Pu Panda was one of the when seeing it in theaters and like
39:27
actually laughing out loud like at some of the jokes and bits like and it
39:30
made me realize, like a lot of times comedy like that really makes you
39:36
laugh, like actually not just l O L. I typed it on my
39:39
screen, but like in person, I'm laughing at this, and I'm I'm
39:45
cackling up and I'm cracking up, like that's actually kind of rare depending on
39:47
your humor level and things like that. So yeah, when I put in
39:52
Mighty Python, you know, I think that's why I usually watch it maybe
39:58
once a year, because I'm letting it kind of dre from memory enough so
40:00
that it can zing me again. Not that I've forgotten you know, what
40:05
happens, but I think it punches up the jokes a little bit when they're
40:08
not like so memorized, at least for me, that it's like, okay,
40:14
you know, and then it catches you off guard. And again I
40:16
think Lancelot's running bit or you know, brave Sir Robbins, you know the
40:22
song from his minstrels, And you get a lot, just so much humor
40:28
from this. So that's why I watch it. I watch it because I
40:30
want to laugh, I want to have a fun It's I wouldn't even say
40:34
it's a turn your brain off movie. It's not like you're not thinking,
40:37
You're just enjoying the bits and and just as it goes from from one to
40:43
the next, you know, you're not trying to follow the overarching plot of
40:46
the Nights as they search for the you know, for the crail. It's
40:51
in there, but it's like it's barely what the movie's about. You know.
40:54
See that I agree with you. I think that there are just so
40:59
many ny bits thrown together and Trisan, I know that you took the tack
41:05
of all of this is jokes and a blender. But I think that jokes
41:07
and a blender can work when the jokes are fairly quick and I would say
41:13
reasonably intelligent, like when he when Arthur first happens across the peasant and we
41:19
get a whole lecture about valid systems of government and lines like just because some
41:23
watery target throws it throws a stack out of you, I thought of you
41:28
during that joke. I was just like, I bet John loved the joke.
41:30
I love I love it so much, And I think I just think
41:34
that there are so many things that that do in fact work on some sort
41:39
of level. But at the same time, like I was saying before,
41:44
it's I think this is a fairly difficult movie to talk about just because of
41:49
the fact that it's you know, it's like having it's like having a discussion
41:53
about the original Star Wars. It's like, what are we really going to
41:57
hit on as we go through? So, actually, Tristan, I'll throw
42:00
it to you here, like, what have we overlooked? What is it
42:02
that you you want us to take away with before we get into our ratings?
42:09
You know, what is it that that should be taken away with Monty
42:13
Python and the Holy Grail, Like, what is it that we haven't hit
42:15
on yet? I was trying to be a really cool guy, you know.
42:25
I was trying to let you guys have your fun and just kind of
42:29
talk it out and not be that guy. When I watched this last night,
42:34
I was like, good lord, what a piece of dog. I
42:37
just the funny thing is I in my head? I said, I guarantee
42:42
you Tristan's gonna hate this. I knew you would. Oh man, I
42:46
mean, okay, I'm not an idiot. Okay, I'm not an idiot.
42:51
I know that this movie has a legacy. I do. I really
42:55
do. Like it's clear to me that this movie has societal impact. It
43:01
has artistic impact, Like people revere this film. It's on top ten lists,
43:07
it's in top one hundred lists. This movie has made waves in the
43:09
zeitgeist in ways that I can only dream of making in my lifetime. I
43:15
understand that. Okay. When I was talking to my wife, I said,
43:22
I was like, why did I hate that? Why did I despise
43:24
that? When I didn't in high school? And she's like, well,
43:28
you watched in English class. You were just happy to be doing anything other
43:31
than English class. And I was like, oh my god, you're probably
43:35
right, and this is just so not for me. This this this type
43:39
of humor, this type of execution. I was cringing the entire time.
43:45
I think the only time I kind of chuckled was during the whole political thing
43:52
at the beginning like that, that's pretty much the only time that I commune
43:55
with two thirds majority for internal folks, like we literally external. And also
44:00
like the Black Knight was was kind of funny too, you know when he's
44:04
like, you know, does a scratch, like like it does a flesh
44:07
wound, you know, like yes, I mean that's kind of funny.
44:09
But like it just kept getting more and more off the rails, and I
44:14
started fast forwarding it because there's just like, oh, this scene's gonna keep
44:16
going. Like I just I this movie was terrible, terrible. I'll give
44:22
you my rating now one and a half if I'm being generous. I just
44:27
one and a half, not sit insides one and a half dead insides from
44:30
Tristan Riddell. And I want everyone who who writes me letters because you guys
44:36
do, and everyone who reaches out to me online, because you guys do.
44:39
I don't know why they don't talk to you guys, but for some
44:42
reason they talk to me. I want you to remember everything that I said
44:45
and lead up to my rating to soften. No, don't, don't remember
44:51
anything he said and lead up just coming at ast forward that part, just
44:53
like you fast forward the movie Tristan, just like you fast forwarded past the
44:58
Holy hand Grenade of Antio, which is one of also one of the funniest
45:01
bits of the entire movie, because five is right out, Darren, where
45:07
are you coming in with this? Right? Give me something to work with
45:10
here that isn't the Grinch living up on the hill up above Footville here?
45:15
I mean no, I think Tristan has a good point, like it is
45:19
that kind of a movie where if it is not your humor, it's not
45:22
gonna land. That is not surprising at all. And I'm I'm glad that
45:25
when my daughter watched it it was her kind of humor, because I didn't
45:29
know I could show it to my son when he's a little older and it
45:31
could not it could not be as humor. I don't know that, so
45:35
uh yeah, but it makes it fun when you find other people who that
45:38
is their type of humor like obviously you and I John like we enjoy you
45:43
know. I think next time we see each other in person, I'm gonna
45:45
have some you know, things to make sure I'm getting over to where you
45:50
are. But so well, so long as my swallow isn't canceled to fly
45:57
out to see you. Yeah, but no, I yeah, this is
46:00
I think it's a fun movie, you know, Yeah, it's it is
46:06
interesting. I mean, I know we're not doing a whole sequence on Terry
46:09
Gilliam because he's got quite the diverse list of movies as well, like not
46:15
all comedies, you know, not all you know of this or that.
46:19
But I think, like I said before, I think this the strongest aspects
46:24
are the edit. I think having one of the comedy troupe in the director's
46:30
chair is important. I think you're going to get a lot out of that.
46:35
But at the end, you know, it's money python, it's a
46:37
comedy troupe. They they know how to tell jokes, they know their audience.
46:42
If you, I highly doubt if you were a fan of Flying Circus
46:45
that this didn't land, because that's your type of humor, just like life,
46:50
but just like any so, yeah, if if if you're not you're
46:52
not British. But like if if if that's not, if Flying Circus isn't
46:57
your bag, then this is probably not going to land as much. But
47:00
it does to me. I think it's a really funny film. I'm glad
47:06
I've got to watch it with someone. I think, like all good comedies,
47:08
watching them alone is harder because there's something about the infectious laughter of the
47:15
room where one person kind of starts to chuckle and it's self reinforces and you
47:19
don't get that when it's just you know yourself, or it's harder. Not
47:23
that I don't think it's funny when I'm watching it by myself, but yeah,
47:28
So all that to say, though, I still I'm gonna give this.
47:32
I'm gonna give this a four. It's it's I'm not going to give
47:36
it a five because it it is a bag of cats, and and just
47:42
trying to you know, like I it's hard to say, you know,
47:46
I don't like saying words like perfect movie or perfect comedy. You know,
47:50
there's definitely times that I don't feel like I'm in the mood for money python.
47:52
I'm like, I could watch this right now, but I know it's
47:54
not gonna do anything for me, So I'm gonna wait for it to fade
47:59
a little from memory and then kind of respice it up. But yeah,
48:02
it's a solid four for me. It's it's funny, it's rewatchable, it's
48:07
quotable. It's so quotable. It's so quotable it's obnoxious sometimes because you know
48:15
people won't shut up about it. But uh yeah, so but what did
48:20
you give it? John Well? I will come straight out of the gate
48:23
and say that I agree with you, Darren. It's a solid four because
48:29
there are so many jokes at work, But it's not a five because of
48:32
the fact that it's the laughter is sporadic, like with a truly like top
48:40
tier successful comedy. I'll take, for instance, another comedy that Tristan hated
48:45
because he's dead inside plane strains and automobiles, where there's a cadence to the
48:50
last, there has to be a rhythm to things, and I don't think
48:52
that there's a rhythm in this, And I think that looking at it from
48:57
the vantage point of a director, I think that this is the least Terry
49:02
Gilliam movie of Terry Gilliam movies. I think even Life of Brian is more
49:07
of a Terry Gilliam movie. I think that this does have a disadvantage of
49:14
the type of production, what was going on behind the scenes, of trying
49:16
to get the funding, of trying to get everything done, of having to
49:20
work just at absolute bare bones. And as a result, like when you
49:25
go forward with Gilliam and he has the opportunity to have a more cohesive script
49:31
like in Life of Brian, like in The Fisher King, like in Twelve
49:37
Monkeys, like in Brazil, when there's a clear through line that is really
49:43
where he hits that absolute, you know, rhythm that he needs for his
49:47
style to work. So this is a four five of love in my heart,
49:52
as I've said with other things, but a strong four and understandable why
49:58
so many people love this film. And that sets us up as we move
50:04
out of this section of the Wing of King Arthur, and we prepare to
50:07
jump forward to nineteen eighty one next week and we explore John Boorman's ex caliber
50:15
here on Houselights, Join the Revolution, Join the Nerd Party,