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What I've Learnt - Dan Rosen · WHAT I'VE LEARNT

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: Dan Rosen exemplifies what is possible if you have passion, a dream, and in Dan's case, a love of music.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: Your skills can take you wherever you want to go.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: For Dan, it's been at the helm of one of the most powerful music labels globally, recently taking the reins as president of Warner Music Australasia.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: After all, music is a business, a monolithic one, with Warner Music International going public recently, signalling to both the artists and investors a huge commitment to invest in their artists.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: After a successful decade-long run as Chief Executive Officer of ARIA, Dan is embracing his new exciting role.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's a long way and an extraordinary journey for Australian Rosen, who studied international law and business at New York University on a Fulbright scholarship.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: Rosen's business skills are a vital asset for managing the powerhouse music behemoth.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's a fickle, fast and furious world, and as Spotify and streaming services have changed the game, Dan knows it's a big ship to steer through uncharted waters.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: The global recorded music market grew by 7.4% in 2020 to 21.6 billion, marking the sixth consecutive year of growth and continued even through the pandemic.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: As the world contends with the COVID-19 pandemic, we are reminded of the enduring power of music to console, heal, and lift our spirits.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: Some things are timeless, like the power of a great song or the connection between artists and fans.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: But some things have changed.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: With so much of the world in lockdown and live music shut down in nearly every corner of the globe, most fans enjoyed music live streaming.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: Fueled by record companies' ongoing investment in artists and their careers, along with innovative efforts to help artists bring music to fans in new ways, recorded music venues grew globally for the sixth consecutive year.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: As recently as 20 years ago, when physical goods still ruled the music industry and when breaking through on radio was your only real shock of success, record labels typically offered a contract whereby the artists got an upfront check, but the label got lifetime ownership of rights and 80 plus percent of royalties.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: But these days that's all changed.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: Increasingly, for global megastars, major labels are actually agreeing to a minority of royalties.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: Earlier this year, Warner Music Group shocked the industry by announcing its intention to go public on the New York Stock Exchange in a move that will see owner Len Blackford attain a company valuation many multiples higher than the$3.3 billion he paid for WMG in 2011.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: Over the past five years, the percentage of recorded music revenue Warner has spent on AR costs has shot up from 28.7% in 2014 to a new high of 32.7% in the year 2019.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's an incredible time for music, artists, and those at the helm like Dan Rosen.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: With many impacted and concerned with growing social injustices, record companies have worked hard to make a meaningful, lasting contribution to the world we want to live in.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm thrilled to have Dan Rosen join me on the What I've Learned podcast.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: Hi Dan and welcome aboard.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: Hi Deb, good to be with you.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well, as my intro uh mentioned, the times they are changing, to quote the iconic Bob Dylan.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: First of all, are they?
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: And if so, how is the music landscape changing in your opinion?
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: And what is the good, the bad, and the ugly that we can reflect on and look forward to?
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I think the music industry has constantly been changing.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: So that's probably what keeps it exciting, is that there's always new artists, there's always new fans, and uh new ways of getting music out there.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: The one thing that hasn't changed is that people love music.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: So that's an innate human behavior, and that's what keeps kept us going probably during the darker days is that people never lost sight, uh, never lost their passion for music.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: They just had to find a new way of accessing it.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, that's the benefit, and I think that's what makes it such an exciting business to be part of, that it is creative, but it's a growing business.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: So the good, the bad, the ugly.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I think the good, the good is that we exist in a global world.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: So it's easier than ever before for Australian artists to have their music heard all around the world.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: We now exist in a world of global platforms, Spotify, Apple, Amazon, markets that you couldn't access before, like Russia, Czech Republic, China, India are all now being opening up to music and Western music.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's the good, the bad.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure what the bad is.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: I've tried, I try to be an optimist.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the challenge is that you can't protect the local market in the old ways, like you know, having quotas on radio or being able to convince JB Hi-Fi to stock your record in the front for your shelves.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: So the nature has changed.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but uh I I feel like that's a challenge that's the opportunity definitely outweighs the threat.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure about the ugly.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's too early to speak about it.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and let's hope there's there's no ugly.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: But it's interesting, um, just just and we will come back to that, but I did want to ask you um, talk to me a little bit about the new Michael Gadinski Ari Award, because um, as a pioneer and trailblazer and somebody that we all revered, um, it's such a tragic loss, but I'm sure that you learnt a lot from him and he would have been somebody that was quite inspirational for you.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: Can you talk to me a little bit about that?
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: Well, certainly Michael was an amazing inspiration to me, and I think to so many people in our music business, be it on the industry side or the artist side, as for myself as a Jewish boy growing up in Corfield, to see another Jewish boy from Corfield uh do such incredible things in the music business.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: He was uh an icon of mine, probably from the time that I can remember, and we became very close over the last decade uh and longer, and it's a it's a massive blow to lose him personally and professionally, and I think to the industry.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: He will leave a massive hole in our business, but also a huge inspiration for us to show that you can back Australian talent, you can take Australian talent to the world, you have to shout it from the rooftops and champion in your artists every day to whoever can listen.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: And even when they're not listening, you've got to beat down the door and make sure they do listen.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: He never took no for an answer.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: There was never a challenge too big for him that he didn't want to uh to to face and to overcome.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: And uh his legacy would live on hugely.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: And one of those ways is via the ARIA Award for Breakthrough Artists.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: Michael never lost his passion for breaking new Aussie talent back from when he did it with the Skyhooks in the 70s all the way through to when he had a number one album with the Rubens just a couple of weeks before he unfortunately passed.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: He never lost that passion for breakthrough talent.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why the ARIA board, uh led by RHER, uh Dennis Anlon.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: We we thought that it was a great idea.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: We took it to the family, and they also thought it was a great idea that his legacy would live on uh each year about who is the best new artist coming through.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: And he won it many times with a lot of his artists over ARIA's history.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: So we thought it was a great way to celebrate him and to champion his legacy for future generations.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think it's brilliant, and I think a lot of people really respected that that was something that was done so quickly, actually.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it was it, you know, it happened quite uh, it wasn't like a year later.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: It was wonderful the way that everyone pulled together and made that happen.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um so, and and for you, obviously embracing your role.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um you've got, you know, it's it's one of the most prestigious positions in the Australian music industry.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me a bit what excites you about it and also what are some of your new plans and projects?
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: I I do note you recently announced that uh you're launching um the Rainbow Valley Records Project, um, which is a new label with uh Matt Corby.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe talk to me a little bit about what what's exciting you now and what are you what are you looking forward to?
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's a huge privilege to have the ability to run one of the world's great record labels and to be able to work with some of the artists on our label from around the world.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: We saw Ed Sheeran performing at at the memorial for Michael, but current yeah, Ed Sheeran, Cole Play, Bruno Mars, Lizzo going back to have in your heritage, David Bowie, Aretha Franklin, Led Zeppelin.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's you know it's it's a remarkable heritage.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: And then here in Australia, Casey Chambers, Thelma Clum, Client Liaison, Jess Malboy, you know, it's it's it's wonderful to be able to be working with these artists and help help them with their careers.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: For me, I think the exciting thing is to continue to grow the domestic Australian artist roster.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: And how do we help take Australian artists onto the global stage?
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: We're currently working with an artist called Mars Wolf, who, as we speak, I got an email this morning.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: He's a rapper from Arubra, has the number one song in about 10 countries around the world, including Israel, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Czech Republic.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: It was the number one most susam song on the planet.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: Last year.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's extraordinary.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: How exciting.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: This was a guy who's 30 years old, has been working jobs, never lost sight of his dream to be a world-class rapper, and his song Astronaut in the Ocean got when gangbusters got picked up on TikTok and YouTube, and we're fortunate enough to be part of the journey with him.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's what gives me the most excitement is how do we help local Aussie talent uh have global careers?
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: And uh there's nothing more exciting than that and seeing an artist get fans here in Australia and around the world and be able to have a career out of out of music.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: So so the logistics of something like that.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: So as you mentioned, TikTok, um, he he had great success in that arena.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: How does it come to your attention?
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like, is that something that you um, for example, do you have people that you know sort of trawl to see what's happening and how big and because it's it's really a different way to, it's not like you go to the local pub as a as a rule, you know, you it's a different way to find new artists.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: AR, which is the you know, the the term artist and repertoire, but the way of sourcing and finding artists, is definitely evolving.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: And there's no doubt that it's a combination of art and science, and the art is still going out and seeing gigs and making sure you you can live and breathe and feel the artists, but there's no doubt that data is now a huge part of it, and and scouring TikTok and YouTube and Triple J on Earth and all the online platforms to be able to see what is going on, and but you can't just rely on the data.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: I still think there's a uh amount of gut feel and organic sort of yeah, yeah.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a combination of both, and I think the best AR does a little bit of both.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, data can only tell you what's happened in the past, it doesn't necessarily predict the future.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I still think you need a combination uh of being out of the gigs, understanding what makes a great artist, being able then once you even read the data to tell, can you make a great career artist out of this?
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: And that's we're all still learning.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: I can't tell you that we know exactly what's happening, but the truth is a year and a half ago, no one could have told you what TikTok was.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: So it is evolving incredibly fast.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: That is, as I said earlier, that's what makes the business so exciting, that it is very much at the bleeding edge of technology, at the bleeding edge of social media, at the bleeding edge of virtual and augmented reality, but still with you still need to be able to connect with human beings and fans.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: So it is that combination of technology and reality.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that's a really good point because the organic, authentic element is very much what seems to be a theme in in uh the longevity, the longevity of most artists.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's interesting.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: I was thinking, I mean, even looking at the Gadinski tribute, you had Kylie up there, and you had um, as you say, you had Edge Giran, but you also had, you know, Paul Kelly, John Stevens, people like that who are there's something just they're damn good artists and and that authentic.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: They could entertain, you know, a cast of thousands or a cast of 20.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's just they're good.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so that goes to your point.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: They're great.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: They're brilliant.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: No one survives in this industry for 40 years without being supremely talented, supremely hardworking.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: And all of those artists you mentioned are that.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the reason they continue to stay at the top of their game because they're supremely talented and they continue to work hard and and they've been able to grow their fan base.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: And some of those artists have two, three generations of fans.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's an amazing thing.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: And streaming services, again, are able to allow a new generation of fans to discover some of some of Australia's best talent and uh and to access their cat their back catalogues, which is I think you referred to us when I spoke to you earlier, we talked about that.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: I thought that was a very good point.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you if you've never heard of Midnight Oil or you, you know, and you're 20, or you know, you can go back and you can hear the whole thing, and it's just as if they're new.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's sort of extraordinary.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when we were growing up, you had to either rely on your parents or your brothers to be friends collection.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas now, if you see Paul Kelly performing, you very quickly go on your Spotify and and or Apple or YouTube or whichever is your favorite platform, and you can listen to his entire back catalogue and become a great fan, and that becomes part of your musical heritage and knowledge.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's a wonderful thing, I believe, for younger people and older people to rediscover all of those great albums that uh that they might have forgotten about.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: And talk to me a little bit about Rainbow Valley Records because uh isn't that in the in the realm of what we're talking, which is really geared towards new artists, which I think sounds quite exciting.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I've got a little quote here from you.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you said it's a new era for WMA, and Rainbow Valley Records is emblematic of what we'll stand for as a company, putting great music and brilliant creativity at the heart of everything we do.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me a little bit about that.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Rainbow Valley Records was created by Matt Corby, who's I think one of Australia's great artists and an incredible talent and a great producer.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: He built a studio up in Rainbow Valley, which is just north of Byron Bay.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: And uh until you go there, you don't realise why it is called Rainbow Valley, but it's just the most beautiful part of the world, nestled up in the hinterland, probably rainbows every second day.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, it might be unicorns jumping in the backyard, who knows?
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: Sounds like my kind of place.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: I love it up there.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: And him and his partner, Alex, uh, build a great studio where artists are coming in, and he realized that he's he's attracting this wonderful talent.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, why doesn't he work with a partner?
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: And thankfully he chose us to be that partner to take that music out to the world.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm a big believer that that a place has it has a bearing on the music that is created.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: Some of the some of my favorite albums, whether it's Abbey Road Studios or others, uh here in Australia, uh, the place does make a difference.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think uh partnering with Matt, we himself as an artist and a creative, but also the place itself, Rainbow Valley.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think uh we're gonna hear some great music that will come out of there in the not too distant future.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm super excited about it.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think it sounds great.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm excited too.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, um, I like the idea too that the place that you record has some, there's um, it's iconic in terms of what it produces and allows the artist to create.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: That's a really, you're right, like whether it's Abbey Road, which is quite iconic and historic.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I didn't, when I first was uh researching that, I didn't realise it was actually the Rainbow Valley up from Byron Bay.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's great to know.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure there's some great artists that'll come out of there.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me a little bit about what you've learned from the past roles that you've had.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: You've got so much experience.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: And what I suppose have you applied things that in the past, you know, even I'm sure you've uh had mistakes or seen things go awry.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: What is it that you've learnt from those and how would you apply it to the new role?
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, there's a there's a great commencement speech of Steve Jobs.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's quite famous, where he's like, you can only connect the dots in reverse about how you get to a point in your career.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: He he used the example of studying calligraphy when he was at school and university, and that became his his way of understanding way so fixated on design of Apple.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I really like that quote because I was did a lot of things growing up.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: I always played music, but I worked, you know, studied law, studied finance, worked as a lawyer, worked in government, worked in tech.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: And uh it was only kind of when I started ARIA that I kind of joined all the dots of my passion with my work stuff, and was able to kind of see okay, I can connect the dots, but only in reverse.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, it's just it's a continual learning experience.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: I try to stay curious, I try to stay humble and learn as much as I can and know that you're not going to get it right all the time.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: But if you're trying your best and listening to people and trying to listen to people who have come before you and learn from their mistakes.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I like this other quote, which is that dumb people make mistakes, smart people learn from their mistakes, and wise people learn from other people's mistakes.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I try to learn from other people.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: I like it.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and know that you're gonna you're not gonna get it right all the time, but and and admit it when you don't, and try not, you know, once you do, and admit it and and uh understand why you potentially didn't go the way you want and and learn from it and try not to make the same mistake again.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think you can learn a lot, I think it's the industry because it is evolving so fast and it's changing quickly, it's that you can bring historical experience, but you also need to be prepared to uh to take some risks because it's an uncharted future and and you have to try to navigate it as best you can, knowing that you just got to do the best you can with the information that you've got at your disposal at the time.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, music, yeah.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's interesting because I listened to you.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, music's a big and a tough business.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so how do you protect your artist um or your product while driving sales and being business minded?
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's really the difficult dance for you, or for you know, for anyone in your position.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you you have a very intimate relationship with your artists, but you also go, well, at the end of the day, you need you need figures and you need runs on the board.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: So how do you navigate that?
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: It is any any I think any creative business, whether that's music or or film, TV, computer gaming, that where you're where you're balancing creativity and commerce is uh is a wonderful challenge because because artists aren't widgets.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's not just well, if you push them a little bit harder, you will therefore get you know 30% harder, you'll get 30% more result.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: That's just not the way it works.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: So it is a balancing act, and you're trying to keep the artist focused on making great music and great art, and then allowing the business side to take that art to the world and try and propel it.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: But the one thing you do ask from the artists is that they work hard.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: Because work ethic is the one from in my experience, and Ed Sheeran or Jimmy Barnes, Paul Kelly, Taylor Swift, they all get to the top because they're unbelievably talented, but they work incredibly hard.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: And work ethic, I think, is the one thing that separates uh the good from the great.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, yes, you need to be unbelievably talented.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: We will give you the space to focus on your art and make the best possible art.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: Don't worry about writing hits, just write great music and we'll worry about turning them into hits.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: But once your product's finished, we need you to work, work hard with us to take that to the world, whether that's touring, whether it's doing promo.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and the great artists get it.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: And the great artists are the ones who prepare to do the hard work, both on the creative side, but also getting out and playing shows and talking to radio, talking to streaming services.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: And uh that's why I love Ed Shearer because I was uh talking to him about it yesterday.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's that's what he does, and it's it's a it's an amazing thing for you to see someone at the top of their game, and Jimmy Barnes is very similar who's still prepared to do the work, and that's why they stay at the top because they do the work.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of that Yeah, that's interesting.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: You say, and both seem to um have um, as you referred to before, a humility.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there's a sense that they they don't think they're too big to do anything, you know, like they're like they'll go with the flow that they seem to adapt.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: There's not that like, hey, I'm a big star, so I don't know.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, even when Ed Sheeran was singing his new song and singing that beautiful song at the Gadinski Tribute, and he broke down, it was just so uh, you know, authentic, moving, real, because often.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Often artists are extremely sensitive and and gentle and and you know and then for sure, Deb.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I you know, the number one thing that as a label we can bring to our artists is passion.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: And we need to be passionate about them, we need to support them, they need to feel that they're in a in a wonderful, nurturing, creative space.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: Again, it was a wonderful lesson from Michael.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: Is uh he he he never lost his passion as a music fan.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: And that was my great lesson that I learned from him is that you need you need to remain a fan first and your artists know that you have their back, your artists know that you will champion them, that you will protect them, that you will sing from the rooftops, that that they are great.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and I think artists are incredibly they are creative, they are sensitive many times because they're the ones who are trying to explain the universe to the rest of us as we exactly as we're all muddling through.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: So we need them, you know, on the emotional front lines.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a very good expression, actually.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: I really like that that expression.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, on that note, Spotify and streaming music for free has smashed many young artists because, you know, obviously they don't get paid um via the streaming services, and I know that's a complex uh story, but I mean, what are the big companies doing to protect and nurture the next gen in that regard?
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, certainly the the more established artists also have that challenge, but how how do we deal with that?
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it it's a it is a challenge, but it's also an opportunity.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: I we need to we can't tilt at windmills.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: The world has changed, we live in a streaming world, and we need to ensure that we can grow global artists because the way that the opportunity of Spotify and Apple and YouTube for that matter is that they're a they're across all those platforms, there's three billion people on them.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: So we're no longer bound by 25 million people in Australia to sell our music to.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: We need to be thinking global and we need to be thinking big that we now have access to three billion people.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: Now that is a challenge.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: That that there are also every artist from everywhere else around the world have that same opportunity, but we certainly need to make sure that the streaming services are we get more people paying for subscriptions across these markets.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: We need to get piracy under control, which we've done a very good job of.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: We need to get live music back up and running, which has been you know smashed by the pandemic.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: And thankfully, the government, both federally, in particular, federal government and increasingly the state government has been helping the industry through that.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: We need to get through to the end of this year.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: We need to get borders back reopened both around Australia and internationally to make sure that artists can get out and tour.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a huge part of artist revenue stream.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: And we need to grow revenue streams in other areas.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's it's incumbent on us as businesses to make sure that there's enough money coming into the funnel.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: But the opportunity is now that we've got to we have to embrace streaming because that's where the fans are, and we need to just grow other revenue streams in live, in live streaming, in merchandising, in fitness, you know, wherever we can.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: Music is is more people listening to music than ever before.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: Music is embraced across so many other platforms, and we've just got to make sure we can monetize it and that money flows back into the music ecosystem.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's right.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what I was about to say.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: So obviously, exactly that that is a new challenge, but you're right, there's a the it means you can access a lot more people as long as the money filters down to the artists so that they can survive and thrive, because otherwise they're they're um you know, it's gonna be a struggle.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like you can sell your album and get you 20 bucks or you know, yeah, the harder physical vinyl vinyls back, yeah.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: Vinyl's back and it's as real and it's probably make up 10% of the business.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I think for Australian artists and for super fans, it's really important.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: You can still sell your vinyl at gigs or CDs at gigs.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: But it really comes down to fandom.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: You need you need to make sure that you have a fan base that is willing to support you, whether that is buying your vinyl, buying your merchandise, buying your tickets, streaming your music.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: And uh you need you need to embrace and grow your fan base, and that fan base will be your local pub, but hopefully it'll be over in Russia, the Czech Republic and US.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: All over.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's interesting.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, um, I interviewed Troy Sivan recently, and he's huge in China, for example.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like his tour in China was sold out.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I know Warner's doing some interesting deals with China as well.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um what do you see that?
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously your your uh role is Australasia.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: How do you see the Asia market growing and affecting next steps?
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: Is that something that you um see whether you want to foster?
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: Clearly, it's surely absolutely it's it's our back, it's our backyard, and there's a growing appetite for Western music there, I feel, for Australian artists.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, there's opportunity to collaborate with local artists, I think, and grow our artists into that market.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: But there's you know, three billion people probably between India, China, and and the rest of and the rest of Asia.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: So massive opportunity.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: It is a growing market.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, definitely lots of work needs to be done to open it up.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: But again, if we can open that up to more Australian artists to be able to have touring markets within Southeast Asia and Northern Asia, that's a wonderful opportunity.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: And Troy Savan is a brilliant example of an Aussie act who has been has had a global career from day dog and uh is is an incredible artist, not one of ours.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but uh any Australian artist I champion, whether there are Moors or not.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: And Troy's a brilliant artist and a brilliant human being.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: He's such a smart, creative guy.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: And uh hopefully he'll he will have a career in China and everywhere else for the next 20 years.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think so.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: It seems like he's very young.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, well, so you sound very hopeful.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'd be interested who um who inspires you in terms of um moving forward and people that are around at the moment?
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: Because you know, you need to obviously, while you're very established, there are mentors, I'm sure, that like within the Warner Group or outside of the Warner Group, there are people that no absolutely.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I I've been very fortunate to there's there's some great elder statesmen of the music business.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you know, Michael was certainly one of them, Dennis Hanlon, who's my chairman at ARIA for 10 years.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: Michael Chug, you know, these guys have been around for 40, 50 years.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: So just just they're they've they've forgotten more stuff than we'll ever know.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: They're incredible.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: They helped build an industry before it was a real industry.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's great to learn from them.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, very fortunate to have good mentors.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: My parents still uh can inspire me.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: And uh my grandparents who are all Holocaust survivors, like to me, that they they they went through whatever I'm going through, they went through a lot a lot tougher than ever anything that I will go through.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: So they're probably my biggest inspiration.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like that, that even though they're not around, just knowing that that uh whatever they went through, they picked themselves up, dusted themselves off, and got on with life and and were always positive.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: And that that's my philosophy that you know you're here for a short time in the scheme of things, do as much good as you can, do as much as you can, and and try and leave the world in a better place than you found it.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a that's a very um powerful philosophy, one of optimism and also of resilience, which is something that you certainly need in your job, you know, to be able to.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: So just finally, um, I just wanted to to ask you what you're listening to, and and um you mentioned the earlier artist, but also what you're looking for in a new artist.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um Yeah, I'm I'm listening.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm listening to a great new Aussie act who's on Warners.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: His name's Budjara.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: He just put out his first EP.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: He's a young indigenous uh man from 19 years old from Finglehead, which is just north of Byron Bay.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: He recorded in Rainbow Valley Studios with Matt Corby.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: He has the most unbelievable voice I've seen live since I saw Jeff Barkley back in the 90s.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you saw Jeff Buckley.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: We love it.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: So do yourself a favor, listen to Budra, B-U-D-J-E-R-A-H.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: You'll do a link in the new EP's on Spotify, and it's awesome.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm listening to that.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: What do I look for in an artist?
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh well, I've I've been working through this, but I'm looking for four things.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm looking for talent, I'm looking for the eye of a tiger, which was that work ethic.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: Are you do you know where you want to go and are you prepared to work for it?
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we're looking for uniqueness.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: Uh is this a unique voice?
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think authenticity is something that really will resonate.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: So you need to have an authentic voice.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, is it somebody that we can hopefully take to the world?
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: Are they world class?
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: So if we can tick all those boxes, we're moving in the right direction.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: I like that checklist.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, well, that's been a really, really beautiful interview.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'd love, I love chatting to you, and I could chat to you for another hour, except we've run out of time, but I think it's an exciting opportunity, and I can't wait to see what you do next.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Deb.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: Make sure everyone listens to more Australian music.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's not going to be a problem because it's so good.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: Take care.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: Bye.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: So this month, my weekly podcasts come to you courtesy of the Witchery White Shirt Day campaign, raising funds for the Ovarian Cancer Research Foundation.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: Shirts created by designers including Tony Matacheski are gracing everyone from ambassadors comedian Celeste Barber to politicians like Julia Bishop.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: So go grab your own white shirt from Witchery and Camilla and Mike stores across the country.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: Every dollar helps fund urgently needed research into the treatment of this insidious disease, which affects over 300,000 women daily worldwide.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yet no early detection test exists.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: For the sake of our sisters, daughters, mothers, and grandmothers, let's get this early detection test to clinical trials in five years and save millions of women globally.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: We can do this.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: Over it, let's talk about them.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much for listening.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: The One of the Woman podcast will now be coming to you weekly, with new episodes released every Tuesday.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm blessed to have so many wonderful guests coming on the show.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: So check out my One of the Woman Instagram for updates.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: Meanwhile, stay tuned, kind, and curious.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: Love to