Latest / Relatively Functional Dads / Episode 011 - Fatherhood Is Not a Solo Mission

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Episode 011 - Fatherhood Is Not a Solo Mission · Relatively Functional Dads

• Audio: Hey, so Relatively Functional Dads, a podcast with a funky name, but it's because if you don't know, maybe a first time listener, three relatives here. Producer Noah, brother in law behind the camera, co-host Reese, brother in law in front of the camera. so we are three brother in laws. We have built in community. So we have the blessing of being married into this. Some of us don't have that blessing. You don't actually have brothers, whether it's close family or maybe it's just friendships that are like soul level friendships, like dudes that really got you that are in the trenches, that are dads going through this with you and who'd tell you if you had something in your teeth or stuff like that. Bro, that's how you know. And here's the thing is when you become a dad, it doesn't get any easier. And that's one thing I didn't realize is not only is it hard to hang on to some of the relationships that you had before becoming one, but there are so many things competing and even maybe more important than sending the text message, picking up the phone, making a call, hanging with the boys, having an important standing weekly coffee meeting with some some other dads in your life. It's it's important things like your your marriage, your job, your fitness, your sleep, and all the other guys around you, Reese, they all have those responsibilities too. So what I have seen five years into this fatherhood journey, it only gets more difficult to cultivate deep, meaningful friendships with other guys that are in a similar position or guys that are a little ahead of you that you need to learn from. That's what we're talking about this episode. Because you know who's a dangerous man? Who? Someone who has no one keeping them accountable. Someone who has no one that's speaking into them. Someone that's not being encouraged by other guys that are going through it. So it's not a solo mission. Fatherhood is not a solo mission. We need support and probably the most important support is is other friends. The Boys And Audio: Hey, welcome to the Relatively Functional Dads podcast for fathers doing their best and learning every day. We're just three relatives walking through faith, fatherhood, and real life together. That was me. No experts here, just honest conversations about the wins, the struggles, and the moments that shape us as men and dads. Some days we've got it together, other days we're just trying to get to bedtime, but we keep showing up. And if you're dad... In the middle of it too, you're in the right place. Let's journey through this together. Audio: that's what we're diving into. If you are new, welcome to the community. We're glad you're here. If you've been hanging with us the last dozen episodes, I think this is gonna be timely as all of us need a couple more good friends in our life. Reese speaking of community, how How can the listeners support and be a part of this community? Hey, building up this community, ways you can do it. Subscribe if you're not already to the YouTube channel, relatively functional dads. Nailed it. Leave a review, leave us a comment, send us questions. If you got ideas for segments, or if you have a personal experience that has to do with any of the podcast episodes or any aspect of fatherhood, feel free to reach out or just parenting in general. We have a with any of our moms out there. Yeah. Big female community listening. Heavy on the moms, dude. Yes. but you can send us a question, follow us on Instagram at Relatively Functional Dads. Yep. And we we try and lead off with a question. We don't get to all of them, but a really good one came in just a couple days ago. A good friend of mine, Dustin. he he he actually reached out to me just a a video message. He he listens to the pod, was spurring some good conversations. And yeah, but so before we jump into intentional conversations around Brotherhood, I wanna share a question from one of my brothers and see what we can do for him. so he essentially asks this whenever mom is away for the weekend because of a trip, or in his situation it was his wife was down for the count, she was sick. Sickness is hard. You don't know if it's like a boot and rally in six hours or if she's gonna be down for three or four days. but this situation, I think it was two, two and a half days, he was holding down the fort by himself. any tips of like how to get through that time some of it's survival, some of it's like, Hey, I wanna I wanna thrive as much as I can, but how do you get through that time not wanting to choke one your kids, not resenting your wife, not being too anxious about your entire family getting sick? You got a whole year of experience, so I'm sure you've had plenty of opportunities to experience this. Yeah, this one's gonna be a little different for me. I've probably got it easier than some of our dads with multiple kids. I just have the just have the one. He's twelve months old and I'm with him for a full day w about once, twice a week. I think that one of the big things for me is don't go into it with the hope or with the exp sorry, you can go into it with the hope. Without don't go into it with the expectation that you're all hope. That you're not gonna that you're not gonna get overwhelmed. Yeah. So I would accept that. Not that you are gonna get overwhelmed, but accept that it's it's on the table. There's a possibility you're gonna get overwhelmed. Because you're a human. There's a possibility you're gonna have some of those thoughts that you're like, I probably shouldn't have these thoughts about about my family, but they're driving me nuts. if I start off with my mindset there, it helps me kind of just control what I can control. You don't always get to control that first feeling, but you get to control the reaction and how I respond. So I would just come up with ways that you think you'd be proud of to be responding with and then try and implement those if you do get overwhelmed. You can also just prep practically with I don't know, things that the kids like to do. But again, I'm talking out of my butt here 'cause I don't really my son likes to just put anything and everything into Into his mouth to see if it's food. So Yeah. That's a fun season. Dangerous season. but you nailed it as like far as the expectation. I mean, there's some weekends where you're like, Man, this ain't one of them restful weekends. This is one of those like no one's coming to save you. Who's gonna carry the boats? No one's gonna yeah. It's gonna have to be you. It's gonna have to be you. So so whether she's on vacation or like we're bl like blessing her with a trip with friends or or sickness, obviously. Yeah, just saying like there's gonna be a couple of weekends a year. Where you just you really gotta man up and and it may not be fun, but it's the responsibility. One thing I added is ask for help. I mean heavy help. Like if you can, like call in the in laws, call in the neighbor to cut your grass 'cause you're not gonna get to it 'cause you're watching the kids, call in DoorDash or Papa John's or or a third movie. I mean we watch one movie a week except for when we're sick. We just send you know. So that's where I encouraged him, like, do give yourself grace 'cause Yeah, you need a little help and whatever it looks like, you better do it. I think it's also worth mentioning. I I have some thoughts on that, but it's also worth mentioning we do have some dads that are in the scenario where this doesn't change anything for them because they are stay at home dads. Absolutely. And then all of a sudden they have a if you have two kids, all of a sudden you have a th a third person you have to go and keep track of and then that just adds onto their load. So I wanted to acknowledge that we do have some of those scenarios. Single dads, shout out to you guys. Like that's your forever life, right? Quality assurance producer Noah on on task. Covering all the bases. That's right. yes a couple dads out there like, why are these guys complaining for two weekends and yeah this is my freaking life, dude. every day. But the thing that the thing that I think of is there's an opportunity in the months, weeks potentially years leading up to this. You hopefully have seen your wife go through a normal routine with your kids. Yeah. On a regular basis. We're here to disrupt all that. Throw it out the window. so i in my head, movies are like d just if you have a like movies are great. but even even without that, like I've seen Jordan Like do a thing with the kids in the morning and then come back for naps, hang out, do lunch, and then do a thing in the afternoon after You can't just sit at home, right? Yeah. Some like there's just if your kids are unicorns, you can stay at the house. I would say if they're healthy, get out the house. So the movies like if we're all just sick. Yeah. But if you can get out the house at least once that day, yeah, you better. And and the help the hope is you will have seen it. At least enough. So this would be if you have not seen a normal routine, if this is not your normal to take care of the kids in a stay at home or single fashion, observe what your wife does on a regular basis. Yeah. And if you feel strongly about making changes to that, then great. But you will have seen at least a way that works to take care of your kids on a regular basis. And you can kind of follow a rough guideline with that. WWWD. What would wifey do? When in doubt, right? It's true. Yeah, And then flex on her say I did a better job than you. That's right. For for one day. While going and throwing away all the pizza boxes. Yeah, exactly. Before they see. Yeah. So but my buddy's got three three kids. I think they're like under eight. So I I haven't done this with three yet. I mean, I've had little, you know, four hours here, five hours there, but yeah. The the sick with two is no good, especially when you're sick but you're the least sick of the two. Yeah, that's when like for real, no one's coming to save you and that's when the movies really roll. But I would say just in general that's something I want to be more proactive of is like blessing my wife with that time away 'cause she comes back refreshed and and really just putting on that mindset. Not that this is gonna suck, but I gotta own this, you know. So anyways, that was a good question. Would love to hear more. Drop in. and we'll hopefully get to one, either respond directly on YouTube or maybe feature you on an episode. So hey, let's let's have some fun. Dive into the segments. Come on, brothers, brothers have fun. All right, dad decisions is back. Yes. By popular demand, and by that I mean I liked it last week and we're gonna do it again this week. there's limitless questions. Yes, that's right. first one being would you rather accidentally call your wife mom or accidentally call every other person that is in your home, including guests, by the dog's name before getting it right? Dad decisions. Dad decisions. See here's the here's where you can kind of cover up a little bit where you call them Mom, but hopefully you're calling them mom in a way that their kids call them mom. Yeah, that happens a lot. You can kinda get away with it like yep, nope. That's I'm just doing it because that's what the kids call. Mom means Mama? Yeah. Yeah. I was thinking the same thing. I didn't think I didn't think you guys were sharp enough to catch on to that. but seems like you guys have got this all figured out. mostly 'cause it happens quite a bit in my household. I actually I do both pretty regularly. Grayson and who is If don't know, he's my middle child, my son who's almost three. And Neilin, who's my nine year old chocolate lab. I literally inter like interchangeably say those two daily. And that's that's just not okay. I get that. So I think I think I would probably if I could not cover with the calling her mom the way the kids call her mom, I would probably go dog's name. I'd go dog. Mainly 'cause I don't overly care if my kids You you got a dog's name that's a human's name too. Leo. Yeah. Leonidas is his full name, but so maybe that would make a difference. But but yeah, I think that probably go dog's name. If I call a guest in our house Leo, and then I have to apologize, it's not the end of the world to me. Not a big deal. But if I get into a big fight with my wife because I accidentally called her mom, it's not gonna be my fight. And I think where you're at in the house when you st were to call her mom would be a big deal too. Or the kids asleep. Because that's gonna be it's gonna be a much more dangerous territory than if there three times of the day has different connotations. Thanks, mom. is how you say it would make a big difference. I also feel like the relationship between the wife and the mom also Yes. If it's real bad that would be even worse. I call my sister this is terrible. I call her babe at least once per trip. I see her like twice a year, maybe three times. And it's just like anytime I see someone I care about that resembles my wife, like Babe just comes up. So we've established I can once is not weird. We've just established that. The second time it like that's when you bet your brain better turn on. Okay. Glad I don't have sisters. I guess. Glad I don't have any pride. Yeah. That's right. All right. You got one more serious. That's what I like about these dad decisions. A little fun, a little serious. Yeah. All right. Second question. Would you rather give your child confidence or give your child wisdom? Either one of you. See if you said son, I am for sure saying wisdom because confident fourteen year old could kill himself, dude. That's right. He may not like that. Could be the worst thing. Or even a confident three year old off honestly. I should have said discerning confidence. Yeah, yeah. so if it was a a female, one of my daughters, for sure I'd say wisdom. Now this makes it a lot harder just in general. So I'm just prefacing with that. Well it I was like, what is happening? I was I was looking at that and I'm If you're listening on Spotify, we're sorry. We're just so stumped. I I'm like ideally, like confidence comes from confidence for either of my kids comes from having some wisdom. I n I know that at least in some fellas and myself included, confidence was at like all time low. so I probably could have I I feel like I would have benefited from more of that, not being overly confident, but I a a dearth of confidence characterized my entire childhood. Let's let's call it a healthy confidence. Not like cocky or arrogant. I'm gonna go I'm gonna go confidence then because especially like so I work in business. So the confident leaders and salespeople, they rule the world. If you think about athletes, they rule the sport. That's something I wish I had a little bit more is confidence. I don't know what my parents or coaches could have done more, but I was just way too practical. I was like, Why would I shoot when CJ's got a higher three point percentage than me? Listen, the numbers don't lie. But I never become someone who can shoot well if you don't try. So, yeah, I probably just overthought stuff and my kids that are confident, confident in the Lord, confident in themselves. I've just seen, man, those people can change the world. I really do believe that. And there's some nerds out there that ain't doing nothing. So it's true. I still think though I go back to wisdom. Like I w I want my children to be wise. I want that to characterize the way that they go through life, the way that they interact with the Lord, with us, with people around them. I I want them to be wise, I want them to be discerning, I want them to understand and gain context for what's going on around them. And hopefully that would lead to confidence. Wise and insecure. I love how like if you have one you have to have the opposite of the other. Tiebreaker, which one are you? It's not even close, right? Not even I mean confidence all day, baby. How are you supposed to get under a 500-pound back squat if you're timid? No, I'm just kidding. I did say confidence, but I also said if I needed to ride the fence on this one, you could make an argument that with wisdom would come confidence. It's true. but no, I I think I I think I'd pick confidence, but that was the 30-second amount of effort and thought that I put into answering that question, probably just because I wouldn't say that I was always super confident, but I don't think there were very many times in my life that I was super insecure. And one thing that it's helped with is Just I don't know, people's opinions of me never really bothered me all that much. I mean, to some degree, I'm sure they do. but I don't know. I just I felt like my dad, a lot of people around me just kinda I just knew I was cared for, loved, and regardless of what certain people might think of me, I was I was a cool kid. Like people just might people let me know that. So I don't know. It was I thought it was helpful. I feel like it helped me in social interactions with people, not in Not always in the best way. Definitely have my you what'd you say, a 14 year old boy with a ton of confidence might make some bad decisions. Boy, did that happen. How can they drive at 15, dude? It's crazy. man. But yeah, I I I go confidence. It's a great question. Honestly, both weeks. Both weeks we've done the segment. The second question, the serious of the two, has been they've been phenomenal. I've thought about them a lot. So also just imagine the amount. You have to have to roll up as Solomon and be like, Yeah, I'm gonna cut this baby in half, and that's actually gonna solve the problem. It don't work in parenting, bro. I've tried it all the time. no. I hit him with the well, neither one of you can have the toy, thinking one of them be No, you can have it. And it never works. They just both cry. They're That's great. You know what? I didn't want them to have it anyways. That's so funny, man. That's so funny. All right, moving on to segment two. Yeah. Should have known better. Might be might be a little weak this week for both of us, but yeah. Have a couple I guess that's a good thing. Yeah. Right, is that a good thing? It kind of. I mean, honestly the we both had one that we we shared before we recorded. And then we had you said too much. We said we can't share those on air. So when these seem kind of weak, it's not because we got it all together. It's because we ran it by a lot. They were like, Absolutely not, you should not share that. So I think I can talk about one so generically Even though she said not to, it's gonna be so generically that I think she's gonna be okay with it. And I'm gonna have her watch this. And if it's still not good, we're gonna bleep it So it's gonna be no, I'm not even gonna edit out. I'm gonna bleep it out. It's gonna be really awesome. It's a long long beep for two and a half minutes. You're gonna think it's wildly inappropriate. So I grew up listening to a lot of hip hop in the early 2000s. So R and B and hip hop, so think like Ray J, R. Kelly. And then from the hip hop side, like Dem Franchise Boys, Fat Joe, Terror Squad, 50 Cent. I mean, a lot of music for a nine-year-old you should not be listening to. But I hung out. Yeah, I did. Pete Pablo. I mean, just like grungy early 2000s. So trickled into kind of the Lil Wayne era and the drink. Wheezy, Wheezy, baby. young Jeezy in high school and middle school. But so from time to time, those songs that are just stuck in your head. I mean just like is it earworm? Is that the phrase? I'm looking at Noah. And where it's you just wake up with it. You need to be more confident in the things that you say. You be saying terms that you don't know for sure. And we just have a new segment every time with anatomy and weird phrases. If you know, you know, if this is your first episode, then go get caught up. But I have I have whenever I can get a good chuckle out of my laugh or out of my wife, I will I'll say something that's that's a lyric. It's a song quote. I'm just gonna leave it as generic as that. And I said one to get a reaction and a chuckle out of her, and my daughter heard it. And Madeline said, Like, you better be you better be careful. And I was like, fine, we're fine. And Naomi hence quoted about two hours later that same lyric back to us, and which I now realize she's listening way closer, and even though she has no idea what it meant, then I realized and she's about to start preschool. So hopefully she will not be repeating that to the teachers. I should have known better that she's old enough to pick up on some of these things. Again, not wildly cuss words. No, not wildly inappropriate, just some early 2000s hip hop and RB. Yeah. That a four year old should not be saying. Yeah. So should have known better. She Madeline hit me with the side eye, and sure enough, she was right. Naomi heard it and repeated it. So I'm learning. Classic. Can't have any fun in my house anymore. These kids are listening, man. well. Now you gotta tell yours. I'm just kidding. No, there's no generic enough way to say what Nope next. this is just so lame. It's the exact same one that I did last time, I'm pretty sure. It we just we just overscheduled the whole month of July. Just constant. There's no end to it. Well, it doesn't help that between our Yeah. Between our six children. How many of them are born within July and then Yeah. And we still got more coming. It's birthday week coming up for me in my household. Yeah. If you're two parties. If you're a part of the greater Fraser Hoff Hoffer Gosey Hendrickson family, and you're thinking about procreating, just really plan out the time frame. 'Cause if your kid's born in the summer, we're this close to doing a group birthday that nobody's gonna be happy with. So July and August birthdays. We're written out somewhere. Yep. So yeah, we just we overbooked ourselves all good things. Yeah. Truly, like so blessed. I whether it's traveling for weddings, family get togethers, splash pad with the kids. It's all been really good stuff. You love splash pads. I love splash pads. You love a good splash pad. Yeah, for those who don't know I mm yeah. For those who don't know, I cannot stand recreationally getting water on me or really any fluids for that matter immunity. And we I guess when you have young kids, it's frequently a get together to go to the splash pad. And once Roman goes past a certain point, he's kind of on his own 'cause I'm not following him that far into the splash pad. And then I have to get Ellie and she's like, why don't you get him? And then And then you look like a fool. And then you look like fool and I'm like he's he's in the water, but either way, yeah. Hey, but for a guy that's deathly afraid me of my kids swimming, it's the only way to keep cool when it's ninety two out. That's true. So But yeah, you'd be looking mad standing in the corner of those flash pads. Hey, as long as there's room for me to like go Yeah g get away and go elsewhere and I'm not just standing right next to it the whole time, I'm I'm not too shabby. Wait until you have more than one kid 'cause you gotta always be watching for them. Now you take turns. They're gonna hate water too. Yeah, it's right. I just decided for it. but yeah. overbooked. We'll we'll come back with something better. I'll make a larger blunder, but not so large that we'll share it. Yeah, nice medium. I'm nice. Nice moderate blunder in the weeks to come. Now that we're recording this and we can look back on it, I'm placing my stake in the ground that you're gonna raise an Olympic swimmer at some point. Yes. The only reason the only reason that I will engage in water activities more often. Synchronized swimming. No, we're not doing synchronized. There will be no dancing involved. Come on now. Water dancing. The town and is it the town in footloose or is it the Dude, you're you're pulling deep for me. Okay. I don't know. Couldn't tell you. Never heard of her. Next. Next. All right, here we go. Let's talk about again, friendship, deep soul level friendship, brotherhood, mentors. I think all of us have experience if we're dads, just again, the challenge of stepping into this. But if we don't have those deep relationships, man, like I I almost went into like all the different statistics of how lonely our country is, but we just know it. Like we just know how how needed this is. so I just want to hear from you, from you personally, Reese. Like, why do you feel like you need community? Like, especially in this season of life, why is it so important to have relationships in general, but then specifically other men that are walking through fatherhood with you? yeah, and how how has that shaped you as a man in your life, but especially in this season? Sure. I think that I've always had great community. So it's one of those things it's difficult to imagine not having great community. I would say the closest thing to not having great community is when I first moved to Indianapolis. Not because there weren't tons of great people here. I just I had lived in my hometown my whole life. Yeah. I had built all of my my friendships there, had all of the like older, wiser men in my life were there. and it just took a little bit to build here. But it's it's great in Indianapolis now, but that's the close thing I've got to it. And I did not I did not enjoy the brief period where it was not it was not overflowing. It it has really been I don't it was one of those things that you didn't realize how much of a blessing it was until it was gone. Yeah. And take it for granted if you've always had it. Take it for granted. And I didn't realize how difficult it would be to kind of just tackle new experiences alone. or not completely alone, but just with way less of my my people. So I think the big thing for me is having other people in your life that are going through same thing, or even if they're not going through through the same thing, but just people that care about you. They'll push you, encourage you, and then challenge you in ways that at least I won't do on my own. Yeah. I mean, I'll try to push myself, but even if I try and push myself, sometimes it's like maybe not in the right direction or the way that I want to be going. I think it is, but because I don't have a second ear or anything like that, I can't run anything by anybody. It's a blind spot for a reason. Yeah. It's nice to be able to run ideas off people and just kind of see out of these four guys that I know that typically make great decisions and who I respect as fathers, husbands and followers of Jesus, did three out of the four say that's the worst idea I've ever heard? or or they're like, hey, I think that that'd be really like edifying for you and and your family for you to take something on. So I think that that's one of the big reasons. And then also just when I'm I'm an introvert, so naturally I think I want isolation. And in small bits I do. Yeah yeah. But I'll convince myself that I want prolonged isolation much more than is actually helpful for me. So I make I end up making poor decisions the longer that when I stay too long in isolation. It's a really interesting point 'cause we can trick ourselves into thinking that we need more alone time. And it's probably healthy. again, to to be alone and think and contemplate or relax and have fun, rest, it's good. But I think for many men, they think that is if you only have two or three hours, that's how I should spend all two or three hours in any given day or any given week. Yeah. I'm curious, so share with the listeners w like how long you've been in Indy and then how did you rebuild your community? Because to say I've kinda always had it's not helpful for the listeners, right? Fair some of us are gifted in that way. But the fact is you have community now, not because it was given to you from birth. So how what did that process look like and what does your community look like now because of those efforts and because of God's blessing too? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I moved to Indianapolis in February of 2022. It is July 2026 right now. And it's been a combination of Marrying into a family that has a lot of people. So again, not something that I did, but also a big effort to just kind of reach out to people. one of the first people I reached out to we just had on the podcast a few weeks ago. I don't know. I was I was gone but Zach Zach Unger. I don't I think I reached out to him. Maybe he reached out to me. I don't remember. I just remember one of us reached out and I remember just telling him that I he was one of the people that I just knew I could sit down with, talk about life, the good, the bad, the ugly, and not catch any not there's anything really wrong with this, but Christianese just wasn't gonna hit me with bumper stickers. A bunch of cliche. Yeah, yeah, exactly. That kind of stuff. Should have known better I could be like, hey, I'm having a hard time with this, this, and this and he would just listen to me, make me feel heard, seen. so he was kind of the beginning of that I also super practically what did that look like? Did y'all get coffee? Yeah. Sorry, I asked him if he wanted to get coffee once a week. so we went to Starbucks in Whitestown, paid for an overpriced breakfast burrito most times. Cheap cheaper than therapy. Cheaper than therapy. Which you should also pay for. Yes, which is also fine. My sister would say so met with him once a week. It was one of the things I look forward to most every single week. It also just depended. When I first moved over, I worked at a job that I loved and I had community there with but every job you have is different. You don't always have great community at your workplace. So it was like I moved over, had great community at my workplace, and then my workplace literally closed. Yeah. and I didn't lose those friendships, but it was it was more it everybody kind of went their own separate ways. We texted and kept up, but it wasn't wasn't as easy as just going to work every day. So I had a couple of jobs that were A blessing financially and but difficult for me personality wise to get to get the work done and feel any sort of energy whenever I got home. So I just I had to reach out to people. I I think that's one of the big steps that you can take. And if you don't know who to reach out to, I would join a community of some kind, whether that's a a church, heck, be a part of something, if you're If that's too scary for you, start with an online community or something like that. Basketball league. Basketball league. they've got tons tons of rec sports that you can join. If you don't like sports, no worries. I'm sure you can find like a book club or whatever non sports people are into. Go to the casino. Yeah, board game convention stuff. Thank you. The non the non athlete perspective. Because we have a mix of online gaming. Online gaming, my people e game. Yeah. Become an e game or esports athlete. Yeah, I can't even say it right. Esports, e-gamers, nerds. but yeah, intentionality. it there's a chance the community will just happen to you. It's happened to me a couple of times, but I would not say that's the norm. you're gonna have to take steps towards community, most likely. so whatever way that is, you gotta find it and you gotta take your first step. What about you? You moved. Yeah. In your hometown. Yeah, yeah. So I was you know, I had incredible community in college. almost like too good to be true when you're like living with four other dudes that are your best friends and the two houses next to you are all awesome dudes that love God and actually like know how to have fun. 'Cause there's a lot of like people who love God and are kind of not fun. so college is a great experience of like what it looked like to follow Jesus, serve the poor, but then just growing deep friendships as we did purposeful things, but also just fun goofy things. And then you graduate and then you f realize like life's way different. And for me I I kinda lucked out 'cause I was a church planner. So I started a church and just invited all my friends to come to church and do ministry with me. And I I made some really close relationships, church of about fifty people to start, so you get really close and long story short, five years later I resigned and then I realized a lot of the relationships were based around the fact that I was their pastor and I was no longer going to the same church as them or leading them. So that was hard. That was really hard. And then I had a kid for my first time. I had a foster daughter and then I had Naomi, my my first kid. And you know, we we realized we we needed to move up to Indiana to be close to to you all, to this family, as we we were pregnant with our second. And but that was gonna cost me a lot 'cause the the church that I planted was in my hometown. So I lived in East Tennessee for twenty years. And it was not uncommon for me to go to the grocery store or the gas station or the local coffee shop and run into two or three people. And then I move up here and dude I I like know no one. And it's kind of the opposite from Madeline. She is running into people. She is whether it's the church we started going to or out in the community and she's con connecting me and explaining how she knows people and I'm like, dude, I don't know you. I don't I don't really think I wanna know you. I don't I don't care. And so I was kind of I was in a hard place. with starting over and and not comparing to the community I had. So I'll I'll encourage dads with that of like don't compare to what you had, whether it was high school, college, maybe you moved three or four years ago or before you got married a couple of years back or whatever it is, comparison kills. Don't do it. but we we moved and my dad died and then Grayson was born six weeks later. And so all this happened within just like a few months. But we knew we had to establish community. And I remember looking at Madeline, I was like, Man, I just I wish for a change. We weren't the ones always reaching out. And and she looked at me and she was like, But like that's God's calling on our life. It's like if we're gonna cultivate community, we have to be the one that initiates and invites people over for dinner. We have to be the one, as you me, I was like, Hey, you you talked about having coffee with Zach. So I kinda like said, Can I join y'all? And you're like, dude, absolutely. And it started with three of us. And now we'll probably allude at some point else in this podcast. We have a group of any given week, eight to ten guys that meet at six AM at a local coffee shop and do we get after it. We talk about life and faith and it's one of the most beautiful communities I've seen. We get together on Tuesday nights at the park and we do stuff for fun throughout the month and we have a group group text and it was beautiful, but that took three years to build. So I say all that to say it took it took a lot of effort in a season of life where I just I feel like I didn't have a lot to give. And sometimes when you initiate it's frustrating because you don't you don't get it reciprocated. But other times you do. And you get you get surprised by it. You get blessed by it. You have neighbors that go out of their way. You have family that goes out of their way. You make connections with people that you never knew how you got connected, but now you're like super close and they're helping you. And so the Lord's been really good and I'm I'm thankful I I wasn't discouraged or compared too much to where we didn't step into that in a really hard season. 'Cause I I was on the couch with my wife last night and I said, Madeline, we we have a really beautiful community and I'm really thankful for you know, the effort and the work we still need to put in it to cultivate it, but a lot of the fruit that it's bearing right now. Yeah. And I forgot to mention but we had n great community whenever we lived together. Yes, built in community. Had somebody at the house every day whenever we got together. It's true, because you were like a year in, I just moved here and you know I was happy to have the end of the day camaraderie every single day. It was very helpful for me. Yeah. So for the listeners recently lived for a little under a year with us when we first moved here 'cause we had extra space. We didn't have a third kid yet and it was just a win win for both of us, man. You kinda helped us raise our kids a little bit. You y Madeline was always talking about how much she she missed you guys at the end of the day after y'all moved. I think I think I'm just not as fun and as you and Ellie. So which is totally true and honest and it was just such a blessing for her to talk to someone other than her kids after a long day, y'all would come home and yeah, man. So if you do have family, family's quirky. but but lean into it and get the most out of it if they're close 'cause that's a blessing that not many people have. So hey, let's let's think about this. Like the friendships that you have with the men that are most impactful. I know you have some some mentors, some men that are older that are super impactful, as well as just some of the different community growing up or here in Indianapolis. The ones that are most impactful, what's different about them? Yeah, great question. I think that There's different things about different people, but I would say a running theme is a certain level of humility, just kind of being willing to admit that you don't have all the answers, which if you think you have all the answers, I I probably won't follow you in any way, shape, or form. Yeah, I just immediately that's a huge turn off for me, or a big red blaring red light. So a certain humility. But also like a certain level of wisdom and discernment, willingness to listen, without immediately correcting. I would say they practice what they preach. Yeah. it's a big big thing for me. If you're gonna try and guide me in any way, and again, most of time that I've had people guide me, it's been through my request. It's not been like them overstepping or anything like that. But if you're gonna kind of teach somebody something, it's very helpful for me to see that you're gonna do it yourself. So if you're gonna guide other men, you should probably do the stuff that you're guiding them, guiding them through. It's what makes great leaders I'm trying to think what else. Handsome. Yeah, you gotta be good looking. Yeah, gotta be good looking. I will say as you're kind of thinking of others, I wrote I was thinking I wrote down, you just get each other. Yes. That is a great, great thing. I just don't know exactly how to articulate that. You don't always and it doesn't happen sometimes you just have chemistry with like, do we can just talk about anything, but most of the time it takes shared experience. So that's like most helpful definition of intimacy is just shared experience. So you've gone through something, or you've you've maybe read a book or listened to podcasts, or you you have some sort of understanding of a topic or an area of life, or you've done things enough together, or you speak the same language. Because sometimes it's hard when you sit down to talk about how you're feeling and like one of my biggest fears is to be misunderstood. So when I can sit down with someone like you two in this room or our friends on Friday morning, if I'm not articulating it s perfectly well 'cause it's six thirty in the morning and I'm still trying to find my thoughts because this argument with my wife happened the day before, you're s you're gonna kinda know where I'm getting at, even if I'm not communicating it well and I feel comfortable enough to even try. So when you got guys in your life where you're having shared experience or even just from like a having fun, like do like you just know how to cut up and have a good time and you trust each other and you know when to say ha too far is too far, but you know, you kinda flirt with that line and and and are responsible but but have a lot of fun together, you can just get each other, man. That's like a special friendship for sure. Yeah. And sometimes it takes a little bit time. Yeah. But you can kind of tell right off the bat that it it could be something awesome like that. when you were talking about just getting each other, there's like the opposite of that. When you realize, yep, this this might not be the relationship I wanna pour all my all all my marbles into. Kinda like whenever you have a group and I don't know, you're all just talking about the weeks you've had and somebody's like, Yeah, I really, really struggle with, I don't know, something that seems like life altering. Really really had a hard time. I Got this gambling addiction, yada yada yada, struggle with this week. And the other person's like, Yeah, I miss my Thursday morning quiet time. Yeah. And then it's like we just not that you can't be, but just like it's it's a little different. It's something that you gotta look y'all are going through two different spiritual journeys in that. Some of it's goes back to the honesty or the humility. and honestly, that's one of the the most important parts for our community right now. I think it's just the honesty 'cause we're going through similar scenes of life. Yeah, authenticity's big. Big thing. Another thing is like, for my friendships that are like I'm really close with is we push each other. Yeah. So I got a a buddy that y'all are friends with Eli. I'll I'll give a shout out to Eli. you know, they're expecting and he's he's like, I want to get in really good shape before I get into tax season when the baby's wanna be due. So he's like running a lot. He's eating healthy. Cause I kind of made a comment like, man, you're looking good and like he shared all these things with me. And dude, that fired me up about a week and a half ago. So like I've been back on my 530 grind. I've been like Not from like I gotta compete, but just like we've been kind of sharing with each other. Same thing with Zach. We kind of have this like running thing we're trying to do with getting our 5k time down. Competing's fine. Crush him. Crush him. That's right. So they make you better. And so obviously physically is just not the only area. Like a husband as a dad within your career. I got another group of guys, we do breakfast once a month, and we just talk about how we want to lead our business well. And we confess sin of idolatry, we confess areas where we've been fearful and not as ambitious as we should. but we push each other. So if you can find another guy that's like a step ahead of you in something and you can say, Hey, can I can I try and keep up with you? I I think I think that can be really special too. That's awesome. what did your dad model about male friendship? Did he have real friends? My dad. Yeah. he did bef I would say before he had kids. Like a lot of his friends he talks about were childhood, college, right after college. And a lot of my my fa mom and dad's friendships revolved around my sister and I. And they moved we moved around a decent amount, not a ton. We weren't like a military family, but enough where I think that disrupted it some. But you know, he had he had a couple friendships that I would say weren't great for him and our family, and then he had some that were pretty good, but maybe not super steady and consistent. And they poured so much of their lives into Sam and I that I I didn't really see that modeled really, really well, to be honest. So if I'm like just trying to pull from that experience alone. And then Madeline's family is opposite. Like our wives family is like our in laws and they know everyone, they're friends, like they have deep seated community. I I think Noah, your family's probably like that too, or you got twenty, thirty year old friends that probably were there at your first birthday party type things. And that that just doesn't cross my mind. I don't know a single person like that in my life. So that's something I'm I'm kind of learning and learning from of like I don't want to lose the intentionality to cultivate because my kids need to see men that are twenty or thirty years older than them in my life that are in their lives as well. For sure. So what about you? Like I know you said you had a tight community. Was that modeled for you pretty well? Yeah, I mean again, I've had I feel like I've had so many different experiences. I grew up spending most of the week at my mom and stepdad's house and then I spent every other weekend with my dad or my grandma. my dad had honestly, I loved my dad's friendships. They were not always great for him. but when I tell you it was as close to brotherhood as it could be. I just I love they were ride or die type friends. and I loved that. Loyal man. And I always got to hang out with them 'cause my dad would just take me to go hang out with them. I mean, he had a friend named Mike that I called Uncle Mike, gave me haircuts. They had handed out giant balloons as part of getting a haircut if you were a kid. Nope. Loved it. So again, my dad had really awesome friends that also had their own struggles and things going on in life that were tough, but One thing I always noticed about my dad's friendships is that it they were legit. It wasn't like taking advantage of each other or just like using each other. It was very much like a like a brotherhood. So I always loved seeing that. and then my stepdad, he just had a tight knit group from our church community and he'd been friends with them for a while and was intentional. He does an annual trip every year with a group of guys that he was friends with back in college. So again, that's one big one that has been weird for me is I have my three best friends through high school and college. One of them lives in Seattle. One of them now lives in Charleston, South Carolina. Great place. And the other one lives in Kauai, Hawaii. Wow. Literally. I'm missing Alaska, but if I had a best friend that lived in Alaska, you they could not be far and I live in central Indiana. so trying to keep intentional friendships with people that you grew up with that have moved far away or crazy time zone. Yeah, crazy time zone differences can be really tough. So I was always I always it gave me a lot of encouragement seeing my stepdad get together. They do a they do a golf trip, they go watch one of the PGA tour events and then they go play some golf for the weekend and probably go grab a bite to eat and just hang out, and I love that. So I feel like I had it modeled for me pretty well and I always appreciated that. And I'm I'm an introvert, but I can fill back up with a choice few people. Yeah, yeah. So it's not like I have to be exclusively alone, but you need to be one of about seven or eight people on the earth for me to be able to hang out with and feel like my batteries have been charged back up afterwards. That's a great point 'cause this half half our listeners are going, dude, I don't I ain't trying to sp spend time in a small group of ten, twelve people. I'm and we're not saying you have to. No. Like have those two or three people. Maybe you're one on one, maybe you get together once a month, but It's the people that that you can be yourself, your true self, and let your false self die. Your true self is big. That's like one of one of my biggest things about I know that if I hang out and it's one of the reasons I miss so much 'cause I I built roots with these guys since I was eight. I could tell I did anything. Yeah. I could tell them I made the biggest mistake of my life. And they would hold me accountable, but they would also just love on me. They won't love you any less or more. Yeah. Then then they'll make fun of me for it for the rest of my life. Which is a love language of mine. That's why I pick phone at you. I love you. I love you too. That was a moment. Cut that out. We're not so anyways, think about five years ago before kids, even for you, like right around getting married. So yeah, five years ago. What's different about your friendships now and what it's like to cultivate healthy, deep friendships compared to then? I mean, it's totally different. I mean, I don't even know it's like what hasn't changed about it. I don't live in the same location as a lot of them. Although now I live with new friendship new friendships in this area and stuff like that, but We're gonna keep harping on this, but if I'm not intentional, I won't hang out with anybody. Yeah. If I d if I don't text somebody or I don't have a group of guys that also is intentional and I know they'll reach out to me if I don't reach out to them, not that I won't ever hang out with anybody, but I'll wait for something to naturally come about. And the longer you're married and the longer you have or and the more and more kids you have, the less natural opportunities there are to just hang out with people. Well, you have to be dialed in with your calendar. Yes. Everyone, both Both parties, all parties. and you know, if you're married and have kids and you're just missing the old days, go find you a couple that doesn't have any kids. Bro, single friends are the best. Single friends are the best friends. you don't have to leave at seven PM to put the kids down. You can stay till reasonable nine thirty to eleven thirty PM at our place. That sounds awesome. Come to us. Yes, come to us. That's right. I got a couple of single friends that are dude. Yes. Single or not married without kids. And then hanging and that's the other thing I don't think we've really touched on yet is I mean, a lot of my friends our wives are tight and it's not always like that. Sometimes we just do bro time, but man, it's a blast when you can have like families that you're raising together too. And I mean some of the most quality time I have with my wife is hanging out with a couple other families at the same time. So yeah, like have those intentional conversations. It looks different now. Yeah, it does. That your wife's involved. But it's it's also really great because I've met some really awesome dudes just through the friendships of our wives. You've mentioned this a lot to me and I resent it. But but it's a really healthy thing. Mourn the season that was so that you don't spend every waking moment of your marriage and time with your kids wishing that it was the way it used to be. Yeah. because it's just it's not going to be. it's not gonna be the way that it used to be. You you'll get moments of it, but you're gonna spit I have spent way too much time at social gatherings. in my head about I hate how difficult this is. I wish that it was the way how I wish it was as easy as it was when I was eighteen years old and had free reign over my schedule and things like that. And I wouldn't say I've ruined events. I normally get out of my head pretty quickly, but I have definitely spent more time than I'd like in my head about the fact that I'm not content with the way things are presently and I want the way they were. Yeah. And it's kind of a waste. And it's a lot of that's just because I don't I don't take time to intentionally just grieve and sit with the fact that that time is now past. It's past. And if you can accept that, you can cultivate something beautiful. And you can appreciate that it happened. Yeah. Like you you got those years. Yeah. Not everybody gets those years. And there might be a handful of friendships that you you need to go deep because it's harder to to have those relationships, but they're more meaningful. They look different. You might talk less often. But then also like if God's trying to do a new thing and you continue to hang on to the past, man, that resentment's only going to create something in the soil that can no longer grow something beautiful. Yeah. So you got anything else before we move on? I mean, I really the biggest thing is just evenings. I if I hang out with guys it's it's early. I can hang out with I can hang out pretty much any day I can hang out with you at six. But it's gotta be six AM. Dude, like you will not do not call me at six PM and expect me to pick up. I'll listen to your voicemail. Send me a voice memo and a text, but Like a lot of the times I hang is is is early or or true late. We're we're recording this it's I don't know, nine thirty at night right now. So that's that's just a season as well of of of really having to plan ahead of time and having people understand your availability is is is nowhere what it used to be. I asked if you had anything else and you hadn't even answered the question yet. We had just been talking about my answer for for five minutes and I said, You got anything else, buddy? You're like, hold on. It's amazing. It's amazing. What excuses have you made to not invest deeply in meaningful brotherly relationships? Yeah. One, I'm tired. So like physically tired, emotionally tired, relationally drained. And then two, tired of like sending the group text and no one replying. Inviting people over. Never happened before. We are a very responsive group. You you two are We're terrible. What are you talking about? Pretty bad. My wife comes up to me. This is the o this is the only story that I'm gonna share. But my wife comes up to me after our Virginia trip, which was this past week, and says, Buddy texted me the other day about something, and Jordan and I responded in about ten minutes. It was amazing. And he texted back Wow, y'all are way faster at responding than your husbands. Absolutely. Shots fired and I'm at every second of it. Listen, I I know you would s would have said it to my face and you knew that I would agree with you. So but but that can be hard. So just keep going and don't get your feelings hurt. Keep initiating. but then also the lie of like, well, I don't I don't really know how often I can hang out with this person, so I'm not gonna keep doing it. instead of like, let me open up this door and And see see what God does. Maybe it's a one off. I I've had coffee with two different older gentlemen in our our church. They're ten or f ten to twenty years older than me. maybe twenty to thirty years older than me. And they're one offs. I might get together with them once or twice a year. I don't I don't know. but I just kinda felt led so that was me fighting against that impulsive decis or just natural feeling of what's the point? You know. Sure. And because I don't have season I don't I don't have in this season of life a lot of capacity for a lot of deep friendships. But cultivating a few friendships and seeing where they go is worth it. So so that's what I would say. If you're like, why would I why would I try and get to know someone if I'm only going to see them a couple of times a year? It's a decent question, but if you don't have any relationships, you sure better start with that because it's sure better than nothing. Yes, absolutely. So I had to overcome that when we first moved here. Yeah. No, that makes sense. I I think for me it's a version of that. If I can't hang out with you the way I want to hang out with you, I'm not interested in hanging out with you. So if it's at the splash pad, you can just kiss me goodbye. I don't want to be I don't wanna be the Which is where we hang out. Well, and I I've talked to Ellie about this. I'm like, do you know how annoyed I get whenever we go to be like to be with people that we love on Tuesday? And I just like spend the whole night distracted looking for my son, or all of the guys that I'm friends with have more kids than me. And they're also trying to never finish a conversation. No. And I'm just like, man. It's like you said that light conversation just drives me up a wall sometimes. But again, that's me in the same breath, wishing that it were different. But here's rather than just here's the beautiful thing, sorry to interrupt you. You're good. We hang out with each other. Not with you, just the season of life that I'm in. It's true. We hang out with each other so many different times throughout the month. That it's so helpful to have these little touch points, but knowing like, bro, I'll probably catch up with you on Friday. Yeah. Or I'll catch you at the UT game next week when it's football season. Like, that's that's the beautiful thing is like I don't feel the pressure anymore. And I think whenever you don't cultivate a community that has when you're only seeing each other because you're going to Bible study, or you're only go seeing each other 'cause you're at church on Sunday. And that ain't a time to connect with me because my three kids are wild and I'm trying to navigate through the lobby. Like you're gonna have a a wave and hope you have a good week from me. But when you have these touch points throughout the month in multiple different ways, that's when depth can come in. So that's why I leave frustrated from the splash pad, but man, it's way better than nothing because we're keeping those friendships alive. Yeah, and I think I think it's worth pointing out something that you said there of there is a factor to this in that regular cadence of being able to have touch points. That is somewhat constrained by geographic proximity. Wow, that's so good. So th we we have we have good friends from college. We have good friends like my some of my best friends are out in Nebraska, out in Arizona, out in in South Carolina, like they're all over the place. and some of them, like my buddy from Nebraska I have touch points with kind of somewhat frequently, but it it can't be the same. No. as you all whom who I can see within a twenty minute drive or we are consistently going to something. I even have really, really good friends that live forty five minutes away on the other side of town. And even then, while we do have deep relationships, I can't touch base with them as frequently just because You have a young family. We have a young family in the ease of being able to get in the car and drive fifty minutes and four fifty five with with traffic. It it just it's it's not there. It's not and so I I think it is important too when we were t when you're talking about the point of mourning the the loss of the season that that you have and being able to move on to another one, you may have a a couple of guys that you love dearly and you're like, These are my people and they are an hour away. Yeah. And you definitely go make time to go see them. But it is important to find people in a close proximity to you if at all possible. Yes. For the ease of being able to go back and forth to have touch points throughout the time and be throughout your weeks, throughout your month, this for that purpose. The people that are further away, you oftentimes have to have more of, okay, I'm intentionally like scheduling time to go. A week in advance. And and we're gonna have a long conversation and we're gonna do something together and it's gonna be great as opposed to you all where I can start a conversation with you Tuesday. I might touch on it on Friday and a week and a half later then I'll finish it because we have seen each other throughout and we finally get there. and also the quick response time for things of Zach, they live five minutes from our house. He'll call me and be like, I I need a weed whacker. Right. Like I I can do that and that brings me such great joy to be able to help with that. And I can't do that with my buddy who's an hour away in the same way. Sometimes I can. If they're like, Okay, we're gonna have an Amish barn raising day, we're all gonna get together and even that that's planning. It's not the spontaneous Amazon shipping. Same day. Same day. You ready prime. You right. No free shout outs. So I I think it's worth considering because I know the the buddies that I had in college. Like it's easy for me to talk to them. Those are the people I want to default to because I already had that time of close proximity to carry my relationship now. But that's not feasible for my family. That's not feasible for supporting me as as we are going through and trying to lead our home as well as just pouring in and catching me on things. Because you all will catch me on things that you are seeing week in, week out that they will not because they see me maybe once a month, maybe once a year. Yeah. And you can't have good community that it let me rephrase that. Some people can make it work. But more often than not, you will not be able to have community that can call you out and hold you accountable and encourage you when you're super down and and be able to catch these rhythms and moods of your life if they're not close. If they're not close. And if you're not seeing them super frequently, who wants to spend the time getting called out by the friends you're only seeing every now and again? Hope it's hope it's gonna be a long time before we see each other again after that. Two two things come to mind. Proximity. My brother in law and sister just moved into a house so they could literally live close to the people that they wanna do life with. He's he's like working on a book for that. He's got a lot of resources. I'm I'm excited. We'll maybe bring him on sometime, but they've really challenged me with that. our our best mm, not our best friends, the the friends we spend the most time with are our neighbors. Dude, we just spend they're just built in friends. They got kids our own age. It's so easy just to walk outside and we see each other. So proximity matters, but then also structuring in things weekly or monthly, like spend time with the same people every week or every month, so that you don't have to play the dance of scheduling stuff. Like who who is that covenant community where you can say we want to be committed to one another and gather and spend more time with less people? because I I think that's something that can be a lifeline for for many dads, especially if people in that group are a little ahead of you in life, a little behind, or in the same season, which is literally All three seasons of life I just covered, which transitions us to our next section. Yeah, which of these three areas? Because we we need mentors ten, twenty years ahead, especially in fatherhood. we need brothers that are in the trenches that are within a few years, same season of life. And then the rookies, the ones that just got married or engaged or their wife's pregnant for the first time, and you're like, listen up here, whippersnapper, back two years ago when I was in your shoes, right? but Because it sharpens you, keeps you accountable, it's it helps you grow. Of those three categories, again, the the mentors, the brothers, the rookies, which one do you think's like really strong in your life right now? And then is there one of those three categories that you need to work on? I mean, I think Brothers is easily the strongest one for me right now. Mentors right behind that and rookies way, way back. I think I've got a decent community here of of guys that are in a similar season or maybe a couple years ahead, but fairly similar season, married kids, young kids, and I mean, I don't know, ten ten plus couples probably that I talked to most weeks at some point. Mentors, I've got a mentor back home that I talk with every other week for about an hour. And then rookies, no one that I'm actively pouring into. every now and again I'll just, you know, throw young blood a nugget or two or anything like that. But nobody that's I'm consistently pouring into. So that's probably where I'm at. You I mean you're unique. You're you're young. I mean you're still you're you're in, God'll bring those people A lot of the people that fit that category kind of more brothers even with you right now. Yeah. the weakest for me for sure is mentors. I I I've probably said this too. That's right, dude. You got me know. You got hella mentors, hella grandpaws. You got so many I've I may have said this on the podcast, but you got a lot of pet paws. That's fair. when my dad passed, I realized I don't I don't have a meaningful relationship with another biological member of my family. So Grandparent, uncle, older brother, older cousin. No one who texts me on my birthday, no one who really checked up on me on my Well, same here. So I wouldn't I wouldn't be. Yeah, don't go on the birthday text actually. I ain't gonna text no one. That's true. But you know what I'm saying. Yes, I get you. I couldn't call up and and like really count on any meaningful life advice. Wow. and has not checked on me in two or three years. That's not to throw a pity party, it's to have a realization of wow I need to that's scary 'cause I can't do this alone. I need to have relationships, not just with people my age, 'cause I got I got great. We've talked about that, but men that are staring down the barrel of empty nest or grandparents and can say, Hey, here's what I've I've learned, here's what I would have done different. So that was like one of the reasons why I I took out Henry. He's got, I think, nine kids. And I kind of made a joke. I like, dude, how you got nine kids? This was right after Karas was born. He was pouring me a cup of coffee at church and he's like You die to yourself a little more every single day. And it was like so dramatic and like ha like so he wasn't joking. And he he literally looks at me and goes, I'm not joking. And I said, I'm gonna buy you a coffee sometime because I need to hear more. Cause again, my kids are crazy on Sunday. Don't be trying to talk to me about deep stuff. And he's like, Do it. And then I saw him at this, we had a a three three-week fatherhood conversations. I got to do some like hosting where I would have three older guys on stage at our church. And ask them questions and like other guys in the church would ask questions and it was really special. And he came up to me, he's like, Hey, like, why haven't we got coffee yet? And I was like, I just had a baby, but I got you. So I literally text him the next day and we sat down and I just asked him a whole bunch of like I interviewed him like almost like I was on a podcast. Dude was awesome. Again, I don't I don't think we're gonna get together every month for the rest of our lives, but he's he's someone I learned from and I is another person that I can see older than me that I can say, what would Henry do? And and it's and I'm I'm being I'm being formed because of that. So it's something I'm weak in, but it's something I know I need to work on right now in this season. Yeah. I think we're looking for more of like a you get a little bit more of what you want back every day rather than you die a little bit more every day. So if you we find someone who's got that kind of yeah, that kind of vibe. That's what I'm looking for. But you what type of energy says this is easy. Yeah. No. Just be a taker. That's wise. nine kids is insane. I I would think that. I don't know. That's nine kids is crazy. It's wild. It's absolutely good wild. Henry, good for you. Yeah, good for Henry. Doing God's work out there. Yeah, absolutely. For for for real. I mean, it's it's really encouraging. So yeah, that's an area I want to continue to cultivate and grow in because I need it. I'm only thirty two. I got a lot of a lot of life to live. So good stuff. Does this next question even gonna apply to you? What's a mistake a mentor helped you avoid or one you made because nobody was speaking in your life? Never mind, the second part f cleared it up. For sure. Well, one is as I've I've been hearing again in these fatherhood conversations we had at our church and these these men that are twenty, thirty, forty years older than me, I've been chewing on the last few weeks and what Henry said is like, dude, just enjoy it. 'Cause there are so many days that I wanna rush through the day with three kids under five. Like I do. I'm so overstimulated. I'm so overwhelmed. But there's gonna be a day where the kids aren't crying for me or they don't run up to me when I come home. There's gonna be days where I'm not cleaning up messes because they're eating out at friends' houses. And yeah, it's just it's been a a lesson I'm trying to learn and be more grounded in is just because something's hard doesn't mean it's not good. And these men that I can see like genuinely miss having newborns saying that and get like emotional. I'm like, that is gonna be me one day and I will still miss it, but I don't wanna have regret. And it's not that they had regret, but that's that's the lesson that I'm learning is don't regret by thinking about work or thinking about my next workout or being angry at someone in a conversation earlier in the day. Be present and get everything you can out of your out of your time with your newborns, with your kids. That's great advice. What about you? You got Hella mentors, so Surely they've helped you with something. All sorts of stuff. and I've still stepped into it quite a few times, even with even with great mentors. but I when I think about my marriage specifically, one great piece of advice that I felt like I slash we got was obviously it's our life. It wasn't like somebody telling us to do this, but just like a a recommendation or even just food for thought. spending some time with my wife before we had kids. yeah. So if we would have had a kid right off the bat, it would have been a huge blessing, would have been amazing, everything would have been fine. But just kind of getting that time to invest in our relationship, especially because we didn't live in the same area or in the same apartment, house, whatever. We didn't live together until we got married. So I was not moving in with a stranger, but as far as the daily monotony of habits and things like that. We were both moving in with strangers. because up until then, every time we had gotten to hang out, it was like the greatest thing that had ever happened. But so just spend some time getting to know each other, spend some time together. maybe before we had kids, I thought that was super helpful. We spent two, two, two and a half years before Ellie got pregnant. Maybe two years. Couldn't make it a third. Could you co couldn't make it that third year? I do think three years is what maybe was originally mentioned to us, but we're great with it. God's plan. Yeah, God's plan. But it's good advice. I mean everyone's situation is different, but Mal and I that's how it worked out with us and it was a blessing. Yeah, that's one big one. I would say another thing that isn't marriage related, or I guess it you could argue that everything about my like spiritual formation is now marriage related, but I had several mentors just kind of walk me through How unproductive being ashamed of myself could be. and I'm someone I haven't shared about this much on this podcast, but I've struggled with a addiction. I'm hyper obsessive with anything that provides dopamine, but I've struggled with addiction since I was nine years old. and shame is a big part of it. Especially whenever you're I I met met Jesus for real when I was about five years old, understood him a little bit more each year. Yeah. before I finally felt like I gave a arguably reasoned commitment to follow him for the rest of my life when I was around twelve, but but I understood Jesu who Jesus was and was trying to follow him and the cycle of just Being ashamed of yourself for making for I guess letting God down. kind of ruled my life for a while. It made me feel distant from him. and I wouldn't say it was like one person that hit me with a one-liner that just stuck forever, but it was just a pattern of awesome men pouring into my life, just letting me know that obviously you can't control it if you f if you feel it right off the bat, but rather than just sitting in the shame. And kinda letting it rule my thought life again as much as I could. I was young. I was a kid. I didn't really didn't really know how to control or manipulate my emotions and all the all of that good advice that was being poured into me happened over years. But Moving on to what you control is big. and I felt like I had people kind of show me that shame wasn't really helping me a whole lot, but deciding what my next steps were and talking to people that I love and trust. Yeah. and just having seriously, a 30 second prayer with God, not in a nonchalant, this is no big deal type of way, but just Hey, God, I know you already know this, but I'm just gonna confess that I that I did this, Or didn't do this, I made a mistake, I I messed up, I did something outside of your will for life or outside of your good plan for life. And I just want to let you know that and I'm ready to kind of turn and make start heading your way again. not out of making up for it or bridging the gap, but just the gap that Jesus already bridged for me, and I just have the freedom to kind of tell my dad, my my spiritual dad, that hey. if you could help pick me back up, that'd be that'd be awesome. Can't do it alone. Yeah, can't do it alone. so through brotherhood, through the power of the Holy Spirit, just just picking you back up, just asking God for that sort of help. I felt like I had mentors that kind of helped me figure out how to navigate that. some years better than others, some seasons better than others, but something I typically come back to if I've had a season where I've just been really down on myself. Yeah. Happens a lot in the winter. Yeah. Indian winners are brutal. Yes. So yeah, that that's what came to mind. It's really good. It's really good. Thank you for your honesty. Thank you for sharing and and what a testimony of when we invest in in people younger than us, in different stages, like how how much it shapes and forms and can be helpful. Hey, let's wrap up with this 'cause we gotta keep it on an hour and I gotta get to bed. No idea how long we've been. Yeah, we're definitely over an hour, which is amazing. No, yeah, thank you all for hanging tight because I think this is where I wanna tie it all in and get practical. So for the for the dad listening who doesn't have anyone, he doesn't have the regular group chat that's anything besides sports betting and fantasy football, doesn't have a regular group that talks about Jesus and life and can have coffee at six AM on a Friday. What's the starting point? what's the fall the first small step that they should be taking? coming out of this if they don't have anything? I mean I would say that if if you're a follower of Jesus, asking God to provide a a way for you to be in community and then practically after that, I would say looking for areas of community you'd even be interested in. Yeah. I like what you said about like sport like recreation. Yeah. Sports, recreational whatever activity that a lot of times if you tie it with an activity you enjoy, it's kinda like what you mentioned. Those friendships that are just kind of natural. A lot of times you have a shared interest, or just like some shared experience. So yeah, I would look for look for community in a way that's interesting to you, whether that's sports, book clubs, board game Board game stores. I love it too. Just Yeah, things like that. You have anything that you would say right off the bat? If you don't have I'm thinking from a perspective of somebody who doesn't have a person to text and say, Hey, let's get together. I I would say do with a few what you wish you could do with many. So, you know, I I have this, for example, a grand idea of owning property one day and putting like a redneck hunting camp on there. Having men come to a retreat. With background checks. With background checks. And yeah, yeah. So we gotta make some money until we can get there. And once I have this property and this is years down the road and I have all my deer stands in place and I have all this like set up and they can come, then we can have these like deep conversations around the fire about life and I can give them questions to think about while they're in the deer stand and we can debrief our you know family of origin and talk about the Bible around the fire drinking whiskey and cooking our deer that we just shot that morning. But dude, that's like a decade away. And like when that gets here, who knows what we're Not if this podcast takes off. We got some work to do. But what I can do with a few is have a group text with the two or three guys I hunt with on the property and say, Hey, come over for dinner the week before opening day and get our families together and we'll share a meal and we'll talk about life together. I love that. And then a couple of weeks later I sent a group text of here's three or four questions I'm going to be thinking about this week while I'm sitting in the deer stand, would love to hear what God says when you're talking to him about it. Mm-hmm. So those are some very practical things I did this past year and a couple of my buds, we grew a lot closer to each other. And it was very redemptive. It was really good. We spent all this time away from our family, but alone with God and made memories and had fun. So that's just an example of like dream big, but do with just one or two people what maybe eventually might grow into something bigger and and more robust. That's awesome. I want to be a part of both of those. The the whiskey drinking. Well, and whatever you got going on now. The stuff the stuff before you the dream happens. Yeah. You are, bud. We got we got some good good things ahead as as God's building some beautiful things. So yeah Reese bring us home. just We got a beautiful community, small community, humble community with this podcast that's growing. We want to support you guys. We want to pray for you guys. we wanna know how we can help you. But give them a little something practical to chew on as we as we finish out and I'll pray for us. Awesome. I'll leave you all with this. this week I want you to do is text one dad and put something on the calendar, whether that's breakfast, going to the gym, garage night, not we should hang out soon, a day in time, something specific and measurable. We should get together sometime. And then when they say that doesn't work, then go to the next date. Don't just like leave it at I I send out a date. Okay, I'm I'm good. No, find find a time that does work. If you've ever worked in sales, your follow-up needs to be on point if you're gonna do we should hang out sometime. You're texting them every twenty four hours for f until they until you get something back. You gonna get nine emails from me until I lose that deal in my CRM. So little bonus if you've got a mentor Dad in mind, ask him. Worst case scenario, you buy an older guy coffee. That's right. Take your father in law out to drink. Mm. Do something cool with someone older than you. So that's good, man. Let's do it. Father, thank you. that we don't have to father alone. Thank you that you surround us with other men that can encourage us and inspire us, that can we can learn from and learn learn with. thank you for the beauty of of healing that comes when we confess our shortcomings to one another and to you. So I just I pray for the for the listener who feels discouraged that you would just bring one or two people to mind, that you would help them have the courage to initiate and that you would work through that. And I pray for the the one that feels like they're doing really well, that they hear some of these things and they're like, Yeah, this is something good and beautiful my life to keep going, to continue to bless younger dads with words of wisdom and affirmation, help them to feel safe and seen and secure and help them to walk in wisdom. Share that wisdom. help them to to have good relationships that their children see and that they can look up to other men and and women that are that their families are connected with that they can trust and see as godly examples. So I pray that you would bless this community that's forming, that this would be for your glory as we become more like Jesus every day. In Jesus' name. Amen. Amen.