Latest / The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast / The Beauty of Hiddenness | a conversation with Sara Hagerty

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The Beauty of Hiddenness | a conversation with Sara Hagerty · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_02: Hi friends, welcome back to the Simply Wholehearted podcast.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_02: It means so much to have you choose to take this conversation along with you today.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_02: I'm Amy Wicks, your host, and here at Simply Wholehearted, we provide simple plans for life's most creative endeavors.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_02: The culture around us holds us to complacency, half the wake to our purpose, and more often than not, it seems as if everyone around us celebrates mediocrity.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_02: But we believe there is more to your story.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_02: Awaken your heart with extraordinary tales of the ordinary.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_02: Find encouragement as you discover your creative purpose and be empowered to create your unique masterpiece in life, family, and community.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_02: Before I introduce this week's guest, I wanted to make sure you know about our 100th episode.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_02: I can't believe it's coming up at the end of May.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_02: When I got started on this podcast journey a few years ago, I had no idea there were so many amazing conversations to have.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_02: One, it would mean so much to hear from you and know what guests you would love to hear from during the next hundred episodes, and to have us reach 100 reviews on iTunes.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's super simple to leave a five-star rating and leave a comment about your favorite episode.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_02: Please help others know we'd love to have them join the conversation.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's the last week of our life series.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't know about you, but I am so grateful for each conversation and insight to help others prepare and celebrate easier.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: This week's guest probably doesn't need an introduction with you all because she is a friend I brag about to you all often.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_02: Sarah Haggerty is not only a gifted writer and a mama to many, she's a true prayer warrior and a friend of God.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_02: Her best-selling books are resonating with women and men all over the world, and her daily adorations are impacting even more.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so grateful that I get to once again work with Sarah on the gift of being hidden, which is a video series and comprehensive companion guide to her book, Unseen.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna share all about it, and it's the perfect study to dive into after Easter.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_02: So we are during this Lenten season, we've had several podcast conversations that have just been so rich.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_02: Barbara Rainey, thanks to you.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I love Barbara Rainey.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_02: That was such a good one.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: It was a great way to kick it off.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_02: She really, like, I was sat there and was like, man, take notes.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I know I did.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_02: I really did.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: I have the the interactions I've had with her over the years.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like maybe it's just been a year or two every time I'm like, oh thank you.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, she's a sage for sure, and someone I would love to look down the street from.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_02: Say, will you adopt me, please?
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_02: She has like 24 grandchildren, something like that.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: I saw their Christmas card.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: She said that at the end of it, and I I think I made an audible gasp.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_02: Because I just wasn't even thinking, but she has six kids, so therefore that makes complete sense.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my goodness.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_02: So anyway, she's amazing.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: And a lot of uh a lot of the conversation, interestingly enough, has turned towards well, I mean, not that surprising, the tension of of Lent and also maybe creating this space to explore some of our grief and the gift of lament.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it really is interesting.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_02: The gift of lament, uh also just the you know, for those of us who are practicing fasting in some form or fashion, creating that emptiness to cultivate just the work of the Holy Spirit in our lives and and his work.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't know, I've I've been surprised by some of the conversation.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_02: Some of it I was hoping, you know, to kind of go there and invite that because um because we are in this tension of the the here and the not yet, right?
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_02: And and what does it look like to deal with the grief and the pain of this world in light of the cross, in light of the hope that we have, of of the whole reason we have a Linton season?
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um so for you, what does Lint look like?
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_02: And how how do you maybe not practically observe it, but for you in your heart, as you ready to celebrate and um just some of the things that the Lord has been speaking to you, maybe this Linton season and and years past?
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's interesting.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: I found myself this fall, I lead a Bible study of some 20 and 30 somethings and talking a lot about the cross.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: Which I think in in some settings that's talked about all the time, but I I wouldn't say that's something I've like hung out around a whole lot in the past just a few years.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: And when you say the cross, do you mean that salvation story?
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: Carrying our own cross.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, yeah, okay.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, that's good.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, I didn't clarify.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: Carrying our own cross.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: And the reality of how uh the older I get, the more, you know, I had a picture in my 20s of carrying my cross was like radical living for God.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like we were gonna move to Africa, or we were gonna adopt ten children, or you know, living on the streets among the homeless, that that was the cross.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: Not to say that that isn't a cross for some people, not not the cross meaning the cross, but I mean a personal cross, how we're invited to take to take up our cross.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: But what I've found as I'm the older I get is that the Lord kind of handcrafts these crosses for us that feel so unique.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: Oftentimes it's on honestly what makes me feel most hidden because my cross might look like hey, we have groceries on the table and everybody's fed, we could everybody's got clothes, but having six children, four of whom were adopted, at times can feel like a cross.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't look like that.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: My cross might look like we're still at tennis practice or whatever it is, but there's an ache that God has invited me to lay down my life.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: So, anyways, I was talking a lot about this to with these women in the fall, not knowing that I I feel like actually as 2019 has kind of turned a corner, that we've turned a corner into 2019 and really into Lent, more as of late, I feel like the Lord is saying, Are you are you willing to lay down your life?
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: And it is it's just been sobering for me.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: My mom's in Israel right now and sending pictures, and I'm I'm having memories of just different spots along the way when I was in Israel of seeing Jesus where he had been and going, you know what?
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: I was really willing at 20 when I had no idea what it was.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: At 41, it's sobering because there's a lot of me wanting to cling to um comfort.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: Comfort has the been the biggest thing that's come up.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: Is that yeah for me personally, I'm realizing how comfort is my God instead of God being my comfort.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, interesting.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_02: And just that when the call to fast comes up, we don't want to do that.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's so true.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I think there's the call to fast, but then I also think there's the God ordained fasts, which may not be like a typical fast, but I mean where he says, I'm gonna take away an area of your life that you love.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and then I'm gonna have you find me there.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: Not not I think sometimes in my 20s I saw it as like this chastisement, like I'm gonna take it away.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, whereas now I feel just this like this loving, like there, you don't need that.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, can can we let that go?
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I have something more for you in this.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_02: You you even mentioned you touched on it, and this is one of the reasons why we're having the conversation is the gift of being hidden.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_02: And we're gonna we're gonna talk a little bit more about that.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_02: But I think uh one of the introduction pieces you talk about in the companion guide called The Gift of Being Hidden, this idea of how when we are going through something really, really hard, how we can share it the need with others, but we all uniquely are carrying our burdens, our crosses, and we can't fully understand what the other person is going through, yet simultaneously we're all experiencing that same ache, the same angst and burden and pain in our own unique way.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: And so none of us are exempt from it.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um and we could choose to go to comfort instead and choose comfort.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um but even though just because no one can exactly understand what it is we're going through doesn't mean that ours isn't hard or difficult or unique, you know, to its own struggle.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I um I wanted to read that verse in Matthew 16.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: Jesus told his disciples, if anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the denying of yourself and the losing your life looks different for every person.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think of actually our our Bible study.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think of how each one of us is going through a trying time.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: And any one of us at any given time would maybe say, if we're really honest, I'll take your trial, you take mine.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: Let's switch, please.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yours seems way easier.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: Because our pain points are all different.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's like the Lord knows the particular thing for me that would be the losing of my life.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because your battle may be easier for me to deal with because how I'm wired or quit or whatever.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we humans then do that.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like what we do is then like, oh, let me just talk you through it.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'll give you this great piece of advice for how this struggle could end tomorrow if you just knew my advice.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: If you just did what I did, I do, we'll be fine.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: Except, wait a second, your particular struggle is very handcrafted just for you.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, that is such a good point.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I do, yeah.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: I think there is, um, I think there's just an invitation in the loss, um, in the hiddenness.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: In the ache of it all, there's a uniqueness that, man, I love the gift of being able.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think that's profound that I have a small number of people I can go to and say, I am seriously hurting right now.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: And probably I don't need a whole lot of advice.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: Not that we don't want to be open and teachable, but there are just times where you need someone to sit with you, quietly pray under the breath, you know?
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um and listen.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: And listen and know and let you wrestle it out with God.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but often so I think there's this this unique thing that we can do that, but there's also a level of loneliness in any pain that no one person will ever know.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: Even my husband and I who are walking through a similar thing right now, we are both experiencing it so different.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_02: That's it is it is really fascinating because you even have we've talked about this before, the misunderstanding and the pain and navigating our way through that.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_02: But um, but in light of not just the message that we're gonna be sharing a little bit about, but in light of Easter and the hope we have in the resurrection, of how we can find our greatest comfort and our our where we can be understood the most in him and that hope that we have that it's there is the pain on earth that we are gonna experience.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: We're guaranteed suffering, we're guaranteed trial, we're guaranteed that things are not gonna go the way we want them to.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: But this lint in season we get this this joy of going, okay, this is very real, this is what I am experiencing, but God, but you have given me an answer.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, there's another, there's another side to the cross.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_02: Can you help my heart get to that point where I can rejoice in that, and that could be my anchor, yes, which I think is so supernatural.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: Only God can do it.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: And yet I do think he gives us these.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this is where I am currently, where I'm going, oh, this cross, I'm feeling the splinters on my neck, I'm feeling the weight against my back, like I am losing my life, you know.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: Might say I'm being dramatic, but you know, for me and who I am at my age and what I'm walking through, it feels like that at times.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but then to have these little glimpses where I feel seen by him, and I feel like he whispers into it, it's like, man, these are these are ta these are hues of the resurrection.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I if on the other side of this, I get my life, and my life really is that I know you, Jesus, like I'll do it all over again.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so I do think there's another side which is the resurrection, but I think he gives us these glimpses along the way where he just goes, Yeah, this is gonna be so heavy, but you're gonna I'm gonna whisper it into your life in a way I never have before, maybe you've never been open to before.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I'm gonna carry it with the yeah, not necessarily it may not be removed on the side of heaven, but he's gonna carry it alongside of us.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's really beautiful.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: What are some things that um you do with your family as you observe when is it something that you've incorporated with the kids?
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_02: Are you talking about it as as you prepare for Easter?
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: We've done different things every year, and honestly, it's really kind of tied to where our kids are at.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: We've got a 15-year-old all the way down to a one-year-old.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you got quite the spread.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: One of our favorite family traditions is we do a Seder dinner.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: Do you guys do so do you is that's Mon Day Thursday, right?
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: Do you do that?
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, sometimes it's had to not exactly be on the day.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: And unfortunately, this year we aren't actually gonna be able to do it, which is a huge break in tradition.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: But cry out or a shout out there to all those moms um and dads who want to create tradition in their family that some years you just gotta go.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: This is not a year for it.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so this year, I mean, really, Bara, it's funny that you mentioned Barbara Rainey.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: We are loving the Evertine Home Linton countdown, yes, and just reading that scripture and kind of moving that along.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: Now, that that is definitely more geared to maybe my younger crew than my older crew.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I also feel like for the older ones, this they they're moving into a season where this is not that we've like fully released them or anything, but this is this is a little bit of their own discovery.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: My littles were just on the front end of going, wait, was it Jesus or Moses?
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and chickens, eggs, hang on.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_02: How does this work?
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, and I imagine I don't have the spread, I have the older where it's that opportunity for them.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_02: Do you you know, tell us what you remember?
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: Would you help share the story and and all of that?
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I love the the Seder dinner.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_02: I did it a few times growing up as well.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_02: It was really impactful.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we love we we had family, we've done it since we had I mean our first year with Eden and Caleb.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: So this it's a big deal to not do it.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: This year we're hoping to join in with another one locally, but um, again, to those parents who are going, wait, it's Lent.
• 15:31
  unknown: Yeah.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: There is so much grace for your currency.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, actually, this is an air on Monday Thursday.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: So yes.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, for those of you who are going, okay, Easter's coming.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, did I do anything with my kids to prepare?
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: There are some years where you just go, God, yeah, you see me, you know where I am right now.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: Can you use like the little piece that I brought to the table?
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: A couple of people along those lines.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_02: One, you could Google search if there's a church close to you.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_02: I happen to just notice a sign the other day that there's one down the street, yeah.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Oh, good, they're they've got something I know we could do because our church is a um like meets in a school.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, Easter three services, that's as good as we can do.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_02: You can't do the Good Friday service and all the different pieces to it.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_02: And so there's that, but then um a couple weeks ago I talked to a gal um who shared that her kids are grown and gone, but they all fast from Thursday night to Sunday morning or like the Easter meal.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_02: And so even though they're all around the country, they share in like a liquid fast and they you know just communicate during it and share in just this idea where they're participating in the story and then preparing for their own hearts, you know, and it's it's not the full 40 days, yeah.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: But those, you know, those hours leading up to the celebration has been become really meaningful for them, even you know, as they're across the country and car from one another.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_02: I know, I thought that was awesome.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, well, we can do that as a family, and that would be really great, and you know, make it fun and then hey kids, you get candy and what a way to bring a mask.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: So for you guys, do you do, you know, eggs, you know, baskets, anything like that?
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we haven't.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um not I I have no big soapbox about it either way.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: We just haven't, um, mostly because we put most of our energy towards preparing for the Seder.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: So usually actually Easter is interesting.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: You Easter tends to be dialed down for us.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: Because you've done because we've done put out a lot of the Seder.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it's going to church and sometimes it's even just going out to eat as a family or gathering with another family.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's pretty low-key to keep it low-key.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I think from probably most families hearing this, they're going, phew.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: I know, really.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: I am just done this podcast to make you feel better about your life.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: Oh no, that's why I'm amazed by the variety of, you know, you ask the same questions, and you know, will everyone say the same thing?
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_02: And no, not a single person has said the same thing.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_02: Except for the favorite candy, probably is the Reese's eggs.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my goodness.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: If I could go back, oh my.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: I know, right?
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I think what what's sweet for me about Lent, we really focus a lot as a family around Advent and not as much around Lent.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: We do something smaller around Lent.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: But what's been good for me every year as a mom, I mean, this is a little bit of a divergence, but I just feel like um maybe Lent reveals my gaps that I just don't have all the pieces to perform this long-standing kind of full immersion for my kids.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: But on the other side of it, I go, Lord, like can my quiet private life with you as I encounter the cross be also just as significant in what I give to my kids and what I cultivate in my own heart.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so absolutely I I absolutely believe more is caught and taught.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that is the most important thing that we could be doing.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_02: And we're gonna be diving into next week of kind of a leading up to Mother's Day, several conversations directed towards motherhood.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_02: But I think that's one of the most important jobs that we as mamas take care of our own hearts.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_02: We're the ones doing and cultivating that.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_02: And we could be doing all these things for kids and instilling those traditions.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: And not to say that they not to say that they happen hand in hand.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think trad I think the traditions around it are so powerful, and I think traditions for family are so significant.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: But I do think maybe this really is just for the mom who's going, I couldn't pull it together this year, and you can hear me say, Hey, like take care of your heart before the Lord, your own journey of Lent before the Lord, understanding a newer, deeper level of the cross when you give a gift to your kids.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, tradition is certainly not the expense of cultivating our own hidden life.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_02: So but they can coexist, they can and cultivate.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely, in different seasons when we, you know, might not have as much stuff to deal with.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: So many things to deal with right now, which we are having fun.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_02: I'm loving this season getting to work with you and Nate again.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_02: Woohoo! It is such a gift.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, y'all, these these people, they're the real deal.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: They are.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so grateful.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: We feel the same.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: Seriously, I think Nate said like 10 times.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so glad Amy's on our team.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_02: I appreciate it.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_02: He's such a goofball.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_02: He makes me laugh.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: How does he run a business?
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_02: You bring so much levity to all of it in Stuart.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: He drives a couple people crazy.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, he's kind of the big brother I always wanted, so it works great.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_02: But you, well, we I mean we've gotten to talk.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: Actually, this is kind of fun.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: You're the first one to be on three times on the podcast.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: So I've had a couple of things.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_02: Chocolate, lacey's dark chocolate, white chocolate, you're the winner.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_02: So we have gotten to talk about adoration, which is super fun.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_02: We talked about two years ago.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_02: We had that conversation, it's one of the most played conversations still.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: Play that again.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, not that I want to hear my own voice, but I'd love to hear how we dialogued about it.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, two years ago, so much has happened since then.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_02: So that ha when then we talked about unseen and how I got to be a part of that, and that's been awesome.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_02: But this is kind of unseen phase two.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_02: And you have put together this companion guide called The Gift of Being Hidden.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: There's video, it's so awesome.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: So I would love for you to kind of just share and gush.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, so I the message of unseen, I feel like I continue to live it.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, excruciatingly at times.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we all raise our hands.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: The combination of me feeling like, oh, there's more to this message that and I just didn't feel like I was done.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: And then just hearing people's responses like this is working its way inside of me like I mean just lots of people saying I've read it two, three times and me thinking, Oh Lord, are we maybe not done yet?
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: And in that process, then deciding, well, okay, I can do this with six kids, I can film a video series, I can write another kind of semi-book, mini book.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it is.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and make it accessible to people to do as groups or individuals.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so yeah, we've got nine, it's a nine nine session video series, plus an awesome bonus with Nate.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: I cannot wait to see.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't seen it yet.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I love it.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna be good.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: I actually made it made me after we filmed it, I was like, oh, we should have done like three of these.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: But he talks about hiddenness from the male perspective.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's really good.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_02: So all you women out there who wanted your men to read the book, yeah.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: You can just take them straight to that.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so a nine-session video series and then the companion guide, which really ended up being sort of an appendix to the book.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's a lot of stories, it's a lot of really kind of it ended up being what two, three years later after I wrote Unseen because there's just a long gestation period for these books.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so um I just wrote more, kind of diving deeper for each chapter and questions to either do with a group or to do on your own, to take a deeper dive into knowing what it's like to find God when you feel hidden and unseen and overlooked and misjudged.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's there's so much new content.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: I was surprised.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_02: I loved it too, because you can then read the book.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_02: If you haven't read the book already, you can read the book and then you can uh use this, the companion guide, the videos to go along with it, and you can do it for yourself.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, maybe you've read the book and you're like, you know, I kind of want to read it again.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: This would be just like the perfect thing to do it along with that reread.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um because I I kind of see it as a mountain where we're we're going around the same mountain, but we're going up a little higher and higher and higher each time.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what I feel like there's another revelation that the Lord has for me in the message through the scripture.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_02: You know, maybe you read the scripture, you know, a couple hundred times, and there's you know a new revelation when we read it in our season that we're in.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_02: And so so you kind of have it where you read two chapters and you you do um you read the lesson.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes it's one chapter, but sometimes it's two, yeah.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_02: One or two chapters, and you read the chapter in the companion guide.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_02: And then you can get together with the group and watch the video together, right?
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, or do it individually.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: There's some questions if you want to go deeper on your own.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of material in there basically for the I I really was thinking of the people who said, I really want more.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so there is more, but then there's a lot of flexibility to go, you know what?
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: I have the capacity for XYZ, and that's what I'm gonna do.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: And the and the videos are like 20 minutes long.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and it's perfect for those who would like to gather other people and feel a little unsure about leading a group because this gives you everything.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_02: You'll have more than enough.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: So as a group leader, our goal is to fully equip you because it is a nuanced thing to talk about, to get together in a group and talk about hiddenness is strange.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but really, the more that we've talked about it, the more we've seen, man, this is universal.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like everyone feels this egg, men, women, all different ages.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: I hear from women in their 20s, I hear from women in their 70s.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: I actually just heard from a woman this week.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I would guess she was in her late 70s saying aging is one of the most hidden seasons of her life because of how in our culture we just look to younger women and we want to learn from younger women and that she's been overlooked.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I just think this message is the message of finding his eyes on you when no one's looking, it's pretty universal and universally accessible.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I think um, yeah, so doing it in a group, we want to equip you to be able to go vulnerable, yeah, but not in a way that feels like there's no guardrails, right?
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and you've even set up um to have some community online community support and all of that with it, whether you're leading it or you're purchasing purchasing the material.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I I just I love the idea too that you've um incorporated some like small group discussion around it.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_02: And that kind of gives you the oh, if I was sitting with a bunch of girls, this is kind of oh yeah, this is kind of the conversation we'd have.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_02: Or if you're leading a group, kind of give you a peek in maybe what to expect or a dynamic to invite your group into.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so yeah, in the videos, some of those sessions you actually get to peek in on how we did it.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and there were some we did some round table too, with just a few women around the table.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: Just because I think one of the things that I I keep hearing is that um this, oh, how did you know?
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I honestly think that's the heart of God.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like when we really feel like he has uncovered a piece of this, this is the he told me everything I ever did.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like that woman, he told me everything I ever did, and I think um there is something about being able to connect with other men, if you're a man or women, if you're a woman, and around, wait a second, we all are so desperate for that kind of encounter with God.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I yes, and I think that's the beautiful thing is when you start gathering other people around this message, for those who maybe felt spiritually isolated, yeah, you know, spiritually hidden.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_02: Where is there anyone else who wants to go after the Lord like I do?
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_02: They start coming out of the woodwork.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_02: Because you're talking about this unique thing of you know going after the Lord and wanting to spend and waste time with him.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_02: You kind of becomes this, like that's what you're circling around, that's what you're gathering around, which is like such an awesome foundation for developing new friendships.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that that is some of our hope too, and facilitating small group discussions around it is um like the older I get, the more I'm like, man, would we have been friends in high school?
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you know that metric you have in your 20s where you're like, oh, we've ever hung out together.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think so.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, but but I feel like the universal, I feel like my friends get more and more diverse the older I get.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: And counter to the fact that you and I are wearing the same outfit right now, we showed up to this wearing the same outfit.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_02: We we did a Facebook live right before this, and so we were on camera no less wearing the same outfit.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't even think to consult what we were gonna wear tonight.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_02: Why would we?
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think because we mostly see each other in swaps.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's true.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_02: I was like already wondering how much can I be in, well, yeah, I'm on camera, I should dress up a little bit.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like sitting behind the microphone.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, I was saying that the older we get, the more diverse, my friends are even though we have the same wardrobes, apparently.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I feel like some of that diversity reflects that really the common thread in friendship becomes man, can we just seek God together?
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: And not in kind of a cheesy, like, you know, sit down and memorize scripture together.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: Not that that's a bad thing.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean, can we really in the hard, in the pressing, in the are we gonna make it kind of seasons of life, really seek his face and seek his eyes on us?
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so this is that that it may be.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I would love to see groups of 60-year-old women and 20-year-old women in the same room, different seasons of life, single, married, lots of kids, no kids, yeah, conversing around how do I find his eyes on me.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, this is gonna be perfect.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's set up to be nine weeks or how we start before.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_02: Well it can be nine months, nine months.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it could be it could be a long time.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_02: And so right after Easter here, this will be available at large.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: And all the links, I'll refresh them in the show notes.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: So even if you're listening to this after Easter, and you can go to that, and um, I'll be talking about it because I'm so a part of it and I want to champion this message.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_02: And um, I know you call yourself a resource junkie, and I'm like, yes, resource junkie.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I'd love to see, I would love to personally take a group through this in the summertime.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of perfect setup for that, or to be thinking about for the fall, you go through it alone in the summer and then invite others to go through it.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's yeah, really set up perfectly for that.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_02: It's really, really good.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love it.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_02: So well, thank you for sharing a little bit about this, and I just want to get the word out and and get it in the hands of people, and that's gonna be so much fun to see all the testimonies and all the great just stories of what the Lord is gonna do.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_02: And on a lighter note, before we're done, um do you have being a resource check do you have any Latin readings or books that you've had for your kids or for yourself that you're like, this is so good.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: This year I am reading uh I don't know the title because that's just I'm reading a Piper book.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: Lent.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: I mean it's not on Lent, but I don't know that I can find the title right here, but maybe I can tell it to you.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'll put it on it.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then honestly, my resource that I would recommend is Ever Thine Home.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, their Easter banner, and well, I think it's they call it They have a whole they have a countdown, they have a Holy Week collection.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they had so many different things.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_02: And so this is so if you're listening to this and you're like, oh, I missed it, go ahead, go buy it now, and you'll have it for next year.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, and you'll have it ready to go.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_02: Plus, they have a lot of different holiday Christ-centered materials and yeah, they've got like a great nativity set, and we have a lot.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: We've got Christmas decorations from them.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: We love everything home.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's a great way to incorporate.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_02: I love it because we want to equip our people with a plan.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_02: Trendy plan.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, trendy plan.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_02: May each of you have a glorious Easter day, celebrating the hope we have an arisen savior.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_02: And as we wrap up this link season, I can't think of a better study to dive into next than the gift of being hidden.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_02: You can order it in just a couple of days and have access to inspiring videos and teachers.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_02: They're beautiful and soul scary.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_02: Y'all, these conversations were gold.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_02: There is so much I want to share, but trust me, just join us next week to hear it all for yourself.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_02: And let's continue to invite others to join us as we continue to pursue perspective, purpose, and plans for a simply wholehearted life.