Latest / ToddTalks--Spirit By Design: Your Weekly Survival Guide / How to Keep Your Faith in the Refiner's Fire: Trials, Suffering, and D&C 122

Transcript

How to Keep Your Faith in the Refiner's Fire: Trials, Suffering, and D&C 122 · ToddTalks--Spirit By Design: Your Weekly Survival Guide

0:33
SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to part two of the Refiner's Fire.
0:38
SPEAKER_00: If you didn't catch last week or Tuesday's episode, this is part two.
0:45
SPEAKER_00: Part one was on Tuesday.
0:49
SPEAKER_00: I did just come up and uh publish a book.
0:51
SPEAKER_00: It's available on Amazon.
0:53
SPEAKER_00: It's a fantasy novel, good for adults.
0:55
SPEAKER_00: Um about war versus good and evil, set in a modern, albeit fantasy realm.
1:06
SPEAKER_00: Feel free to look that up.
1:09
SPEAKER_00: It is called Crossing the Horizon: Escape to Destiny.
1:13
SPEAKER_00: Anyways, this is Todd Talks, Spirit by Design, where I help you design your spiritual life in order to prepare you to be ready for the second coming of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
1:26
SPEAKER_00: In Tuesday's episode, we talked about all the troubles that you can be going through.
1:32
SPEAKER_00: We didn't ask for them.
1:35
SPEAKER_00: And the Lord, we're talking about Liberty Jail and what Joseph went through.
1:42
SPEAKER_00: Today we're going to talk about the refiner's fire.
1:45
SPEAKER_00: Why God allows the heat.
1:49
SPEAKER_00: What is a refiner's fire?
1:51
SPEAKER_00: I've talked about this before, but in metallurgy, a refiner's fire offers a uh powerful illustration of spiritual refinement.
2:00
SPEAKER_00: See, when precious metals are refined, melted, smelted, I guess, heat helps separate the impurities from the material being refined.
2:11
SPEAKER_00: The process is demanding, but it can produce something much more valuable and more useful.
2:17
SPEAKER_00: Scriptures use the refiner's fire.
2:21
SPEAKER_00: They use that imagery to describe.
2:24
SPEAKER_00: Man, I can't talk today.
2:26
SPEAKER_00: To describe God's work among his people.
2:30
SPEAKER_00: Malachi 3.3 describes the Lord as one who shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver.
2:38
SPEAKER_00: And in DNC 122.7, the Lord gives Joseph Smith one of the most important teachings about adversity in all of Latter-day Scripture.
2:47
SPEAKER_00: He said, All these things shall give thee experience and shall be for thy good.
2:54
SPEAKER_00: If he didn't listen to part one, by all these things, he was trapped for four months in Liberty jail in the cold, couldn't stand up straight.
3:05
SPEAKER_00: Basically, they were dumped into a hole with walls four feet thick, impossible to escape.
3:13
SPEAKER_00: They were fed rotten food, poisoned food on multiple occasions.
3:18
SPEAKER_00: And more than once they tried to feed them the flesh of another man.
3:25
SPEAKER_00: And they were horrible, horrible jailers.
3:31
SPEAKER_00: Definitely a refiner's fire.
3:33
SPEAKER_00: And the Lord told Joseph, All these things shall give thee experience and shall be for thy good.
3:39
SPEAKER_00: What he doesn't say, he doesn't say that every experience will feel good.
3:44
SPEAKER_00: He doesn't say that every injustice is acceptable.
3:48
SPEAKER_00: He does not say that faithful people should welcome abuse or refuse to seek relief.
3:53
SPEAKER_00: In fact, one night, the abuse, verbal abuse they were taking from above from their captors was so bad that Joseph and the trapdoor was opened through which they had been lowered, and Joseph stood the whole of that trapdoor and looking up at his captors, stated something to the effect of Be quiet, ye vile fiends of the infernal pit.
4:21
SPEAKER_00: You will cease to take the name of the Lord my God in vain, or you or I will die this instant.
4:31
SPEAKER_00: And his voice shook like thunder, and his captors shut up.
4:37
SPEAKER_00: They stopped because they felt the prophetic words that had they uttered anything else Lyle, they would have died.
4:51
SPEAKER_00: That's what I mean by saying sometimes you should seek relief.
5:02
SPEAKER_00: God says that these things can give us experience and ultimately be for our good.
5:08
SPEAKER_00: That distinction ultimately is important.
5:12
SPEAKER_00: It matters.
5:13
SPEAKER_00: God can bring out good out of suffering without calling the suffering itself good.
5:20
SPEAKER_00: Joseph's imprisonment was unjust.
5:22
SPEAKER_00: The saints' persecution was wrong.
5:25
SPEAKER_00: The suffering of innocent people did not become morally acceptable simply because God could teach them a lesson through it.
5:32
SPEAKER_00: The Refiner's Fire is not a license to excuse cruelty.
5:37
SPEAKER_00: It is a reminder that cruelty, disappointment, and adversity do not possess the power to determine our eternal worth or prevent God from working in our lives.
5:48
SPEAKER_00: Again, there is free will on this planet, and sometimes that cruelty, disappointment, and adversity affects us regardless of what we want.
6:01
SPEAKER_00: They're not consequences of our actions, they're consequences of others' actions.
6:07
SPEAKER_00: So what might fire refine in our lives?
6:11
SPEAKER_00: It can expose the difference between faith in God's character and faith in our preferred outcomes.
6:17
SPEAKER_00: It can reveal whether our identity rests entirely on success, approval, financial security, physical strength, or the expectations of other people.
6:28
SPEAKER_00: It can teach us compassion for people whose suffering we once misunderstood.
6:34
SPEAKER_00: It can expose pride, impatience, resentment, and the desire to control every outcome.
6:40
SPEAKER_00: That is an impossible desire.
6:43
SPEAKER_00: And it can deepen our dependence on Jesus Christ.
6:48
SPEAKER_00: That is a desired outcome.
6:50
SPEAKER_00: We should not assume that every person who suffers will automatically become more faithful, more compassionate, and more Christ-like.
6:57
SPEAKER_00: In fact, suffering more often than not has caused many a man to curse God and desire death.
7:08
SPEAKER_00: Suffering can wound, exhaust, and discourage us.
7:11
SPEAKER_00: Look at Canada.
7:15
SPEAKER_00: They made medically assisted suicide legal.
7:20
SPEAKER_00: And they've killed over a hundred thousand, two hundred thousand, or maybe it's a million at this point, of their own people.
7:32
SPEAKER_00: People that don't want to suffer anymore.
7:36
SPEAKER_00: Whatever that suffering is.
7:37
SPEAKER_00: Some of them, they're just depressed.
7:44
SPEAKER_00: The question is not simply, why am I in the fire?
7:48
SPEAKER_00: The question should be, what is this experience revealing about where I place my trust?
7:58
SPEAKER_00: Suffering involves the grace of Christ in our choices, the help we receive from others, and the healing that may take time.
8:08
SPEAKER_00: Like I said, I was in pain for five and a half years before I got relief.
8:14
SPEAKER_00: Question you should ask is what kind of person am I becoming in response to this?
8:20
SPEAKER_00: Am I becoming more humble and Christ-like, or am I becoming bitter, resentful, and angry?
8:27
SPEAKER_00: More importantly, can I allow Jesus Christ to work in me without pretending that I understand everything that he's allowing?
8:38
SPEAKER_00: Okay, as a pilot, we fly through turbulence all the time.
8:41
SPEAKER_00: Turbulence does not mean the airplane is in danger.
8:45
SPEAKER_00: Much to some of my friends' chagrin, um, that are terrified of turbulence, they can be uncomfortable, sometimes severe.
8:55
SPEAKER_00: We don't fly through the severe stuff on purpose.
8:58
SPEAKER_00: But discomfort doesn't tell us the aircraft's actual condition.
9:04
SPEAKER_00: In fact, the airplane's fine.
9:07
SPEAKER_00: But we must distinguish between what we feel and what the instruments tell us.
9:11
SPEAKER_00: When I'm flying, I trust my training.
9:14
SPEAKER_00: We use our radar, we use the iPads that we have, we use reports by other pilots and air traffic control, and we move to better altitudes when we're in turbulence.
9:29
SPEAKER_00: We follow procedures and we don't allow fear to dictate our next action.
9:35
SPEAKER_00: We seek the best course of action.
9:37
SPEAKER_00: Spiritual turbulence can create a similar challenge.
9:40
SPEAKER_00: When life becomes uncomfortable, our emotions can tell us that God has abandoned us or that the future is ruined or that our faith has failed.
9:51
SPEAKER_00: Those feelings are real, but they are not necessarily reliable indicators of eternal reality.
9:58
SPEAKER_00: Last week I did an episode about why we need morality now more than ever.
10:07
SPEAKER_00: Because when you only go off feelings to determine your truth, his truth, my truth, all that bloody mess.
10:17
SPEAKER_00: Feelings lie all the time.
10:21
SPEAKER_00: Feelings are real, but they're not reliable.
10:26
SPEAKER_00: We need spiritual instruments.
10:27
SPEAKER_00: We need the scriptures, prayers, the witness of the Holy Ghost, personal revelation.
10:32
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna pound the desk on that one.
10:37
SPEAKER_00: We need the teachings of Jesus Christ and the wisdom of trusted people who can help us see clearly.
10:43
SPEAKER_00: A responsible pilot does not ignore turbulence, he tries to find the better, smoother ride.
10:53
SPEAKER_00: Faith is not the absence of turbulence.
10:55
SPEAKER_00: Faith is learning to navigate turbulence without abandoning the one who knows the way home.
11:03
SPEAKER_00: So going back to the question, art thou greater than he?
11:09
SPEAKER_00: In DNC 122.8, we learn one of the deepest lines, in my opinion, in the scripture.
11:22
SPEAKER_00: Art thou greater than he?
11:26
SPEAKER_00: Let's slow down here for a second because it's possible to read this a little too quickly.
11:34
SPEAKER_00: And this its power.
11:37
SPEAKER_00: Like I said, I believe this is one of the most powerful teachings, deep teachings we can learn.
11:43
SPEAKER_00: The Lord just described the series of terrible experiences that Joseph has gone through: affliction, persecution, false accusations, danger, and personal suffering.
11:54
SPEAKER_00: Then he points Joseph towards Jesus Christ.
12:01
SPEAKER_00: God's not saying, stop complaining, Jesus suffered more.
12:07
SPEAKER_00: The question is not an invitation to compare our pain with the Savior's pain and conclude that ours doesn't matter.
12:16
SPEAKER_00: That interpretation misses the heart of the gospel, though.
12:19
SPEAKER_00: Savior's suffering is not meant to invalidate our own.
12:23
SPEAKER_00: It's the reason we can have hope in the middle of our pain.
12:27
SPEAKER_00: Because he descended below them all.
12:31
SPEAKER_00: He descended below all things.
12:33
SPEAKER_00: He knows the full weight of mortality, the consequences of sin, the anguish of betrayal, the loneliness of rejection, the pain and suffering of every type of affliction out there.
12:48
SPEAKER_00: He knows the depths of human suffering.
12:52
SPEAKER_00: And because of him, we do not have to endure our trials, believing that God is distant from our pain.
13:01
SPEAKER_00: What does the question, art thou greater than he being, to you, to me?
13:07
SPEAKER_00: I believe it's an invitation for us to examine our expectations of discipleship.
13:14
SPEAKER_00: If the perfect obedient son, Jesus Christ, the Son of God, passed through all suffering, why would we assume that obedience guarantees life without suffering?
13:27
SPEAKER_00: In the Book of Mormon, we learn that Christ suffered all these things for one reason.
13:37
SPEAKER_00: He took upon himself all the pains, sicknesses, evils of the world for one reason.
13:45
SPEAKER_00: He did it so that he will know how to succor us.
13:50
SPEAKER_00: Not succor like Sucker Punch, but Sucker, S-U-C-C-O-R.
13:56
SPEAKER_00: How to treat us as a doctor would, as a physician, as a therapist, as a counselor, as a father would, as a brother, so that he will know how to help us.
14:21
SPEAKER_00: In the Garden of Gethsemane, he pleaded with the Father.
14:24
SPEAKER_00: On the cross, he experienced profound agony.
14:27
SPEAKER_00: His suffering did not mean he had failed.
14:30
SPEAKER_00: His suffering was central to the plan.
14:33
SPEAKER_00: If we assume that every difficult circumstance is proof that God is displeased with us, we will eventually struggle to explain the life of Jesus Christ Himself.
14:44
SPEAKER_00: The questions from Liberty Jail challenge that assumption.
14:47
SPEAKER_00: It reminds us that discipleship is not a contract in which we offer obedience if God promises to remove every obstacle.
14:54
SPEAKER_00: That doesn't happen.
14:56
SPEAKER_00: Discipleship often makes life more difficult.
15:00
SPEAKER_00: Because Satan, like he hates disciples.
15:05
SPEAKER_00: Satan hates you.
15:07
SPEAKER_00: He doesn't like you.
15:08
SPEAKER_00: He doesn't like the fact that you want to return to God and believe and have faith in Jesus Christ.
15:17
SPEAKER_00: Discipleship is a covenant relationship with the Savior.
15:21
SPEAKER_00: And he knows the way through mortality.
15:24
SPEAKER_00: He descended below all things.
15:26
SPEAKER_00: He knows how to comfort you.
15:28
SPEAKER_00: That's the word.
15:30
SPEAKER_00: Succor, yes, but comfort you when you're going through your darkest trials.
15:36
SPEAKER_00: When we suffer, we often want to put God on trial.
15:40
SPEAKER_00: We construct our case.
15:42
SPEAKER_00: I did what was right.
15:43
SPEAKER_00: I made the sacrifice.
15:44
SPEAKER_00: I prayed for guidance.
15:45
SPEAKER_00: I tried to be obedient.
15:47
SPEAKER_00: Therefore, this should not have happened.
15:49
SPEAKER_00: And we yell at God, we curse God.
15:55
SPEAKER_00: We should curse to God, not at God.
15:59
SPEAKER_00: It's a difference.
16:01
SPEAKER_00: It's a very big difference.
16:03
SPEAKER_00: When life does not conform to our conclusions, we begin questioning God's goodness, his awareness, and his promises.
16:11
SPEAKER_00: That's where the danger is.
16:14
SPEAKER_00: The danger is in making our limited understanding of God's final measure.
16:20
SPEAKER_00: A testament to his character.
16:24
SPEAKER_00: We see one little chapter of our life.
16:28
SPEAKER_00: God sees the whole story.
16:30
SPEAKER_00: We see the pain of the present.
16:32
SPEAKER_00: God understands the eternal possibility of redemption.
16:36
SPEAKER_00: We see a closed door.
16:40
SPEAKER_00: We don't know that there's 500 roads for us to take beyond.
16:46
SPEAKER_00: We shouldn't.
16:47
SPEAKER_00: This doesn't mean we should suppress honest questions.
16:49
SPEAKER_00: Like I said, we should question rage to God.
16:57
SPEAKER_00: Meaning we're seeking his blessing.
17:01
SPEAKER_00: We're seeking understanding.
17:03
SPEAKER_00: When you rage and throw your anger at God, you're closing the door to his help and to his understanding.
17:14
SPEAKER_00: The question, art thou greater than he, calls us back to Jesus Christ.
17:18
SPEAKER_00: If he was willing to walk the path of perfect obedience through suffering, can we be trusted to follow him regardless of what happens to us?
17:31
SPEAKER_00: Even when the path becomes painful?
17:33
SPEAKER_00: Can we believe that God is good even when our circumstances are not?
17:38
SPEAKER_00: Can we continue to do what is right without demanding that God prove his love to us?
17:43
SPEAKER_00: There's only one scripture where he tells us to prove him, and that's in pain tiding.
17:51
SPEAKER_00: Okay, that is not passive resignation.
17:55
SPEAKER_00: It's covenant faith when we choose to follow Christ because of who he is, not because of what we hope he will do for us.
18:05
SPEAKER_00: In Luke 22, 42, Jesus prayed, nevertheless, not my will, but thine be done.
18:15
SPEAKER_00: Art thou greater than he asks us to ask that same question or make that same promise.
18:24
SPEAKER_00: Not my will, but thine be done.
18:29
SPEAKER_00: Jesus already endured everything and opened the way up for redemption.
18:35
SPEAKER_00: We may not understand why a particular prayer has not been answered.
18:41
SPEAKER_00: That reminds me of the country song.
18:43
SPEAKER_00: Some of God's greatest gifts are unanswered prayers.
18:49
SPEAKER_00: We may not be able to see how the pieces of our lives eventually fit together.
18:54
SPEAKER_00: But we know the character of the Savior.
18:56
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes that knowledge must sustain us until understanding comes.
19:03
SPEAKER_00: God's power, you see, is not the world's power.
19:10
SPEAKER_00: In verses 34 to 36 to 46 of DNC 121, the Lord explains that the powers of heaven cannot be controlled or exercised through unrighteous dominion.
19:23
SPEAKER_00: It says that the powers of heaven are controlled through righteous influence, persuasion by longsuffering, by gentleness, meekness, and love unfaint.
19:35
SPEAKER_00: The Lord teaches us to be kind, pure, and use the influence of the Holy Ghost.
19:44
SPEAKER_00: Now, why is that part of the Liberty Jail Revelation so important after the refined fire?
19:53
SPEAKER_00: Well, because suffering can create the temptation to become the very thing that wounded us.
19:57
SPEAKER_00: When people misuse power against us, we may begin to believe that the power, that power is the only way to protect ourselves.
20:06
SPEAKER_00: You see it on Capitol Hill all the time.
20:09
SPEAKER_00: Power corrupts.
20:12
SPEAKER_00: People misuse power.
20:16
SPEAKER_00: And then we want to misuse it back when we have it.
20:20
SPEAKER_00: When someone humiliates us, we want to humiliate them.
20:23
SPEAKER_00: When we are betrayed, we may become suspicious of everyone.
20:27
SPEAKER_00: If we were treated unjustly, we may be begin to justify treating others terribly.
20:34
SPEAKER_00: But the Lord's revelation points the opposite direction.
20:38
SPEAKER_00: He tells us that divine power does not operate through coercion, manipulation, intimidation, or unrighteous dominion.
20:46
SPEAKER_00: Think servant leadership, right?
20:48
SPEAKER_00: That's my favorite kind of leadership.
20:53
SPEAKER_00: The Lord is teaching Joseph in this time about the character required of those who exercise his authority.
21:01
SPEAKER_00: And that lesson applies far beyond formal priestly responsibilities.
21:05
SPEAKER_00: It applies to fathers, mothers, spouses, leaders, teachers, employers, and anyone who has influence over another human being.
21:14
SPEAKER_00: You can be right about a principle and wrong about the way you treat a person.
21:19
SPEAKER_00: You can possess authority without possessing wisdom.
21:22
SPEAKER_00: You can demand obedience without earning trust.
21:26
SPEAKER_00: You can win an argument and lose a relationship.
21:31
SPEAKER_00: God's standard, the Lord's standard is higher.
21:34
SPEAKER_00: He asks us to develop the kind of character that makes righteous influence possible.
21:42
SPEAKER_00: And that's the connection to Refiner's Fire.
21:45
SPEAKER_00: One of the tests of spiritual refinement is whether suffering makes us more like Jesus Christ or merely makes us more defensive, bitter, and controlling.
21:55
SPEAKER_00: And that, my friends, is the lesson of the Refiner's Fire.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: The next episode, we're gonna go into what is in our power to do.
22:06
SPEAKER_00: Section 123 of the Doctrine and Covenants.
22:09
SPEAKER_00: But for now, I want you to leave, I want to leave you with this thought.
22:16
SPEAKER_00: When you're going through trials and tribulations, which we all will go through, how are you responding?
22:27
SPEAKER_00: Are you becoming more like Christ?
22:29
SPEAKER_00: Or are you becoming bitter?
22:32
SPEAKER_00: And if you are becoming bitter and you notice that and have enough self-awareness at this point to recognize that, you're not stuck.
22:45
SPEAKER_00: You can always turn back towards Christ.
22:50
SPEAKER_00: Pray and humble yourself before the Lord.
22:56
SPEAKER_00: And he will provide the spiritual growth that you need.
23:03
SPEAKER_00: We all have free will.
23:04
SPEAKER_00: Like I said at the beginning, that is one of the main messages of the book that I just published on Amazon.
23:14
SPEAKER_00: Crossing the Horizon, Escape to Destiny.
23:19
SPEAKER_00: By Todd Andrewsen, that's me.
23:21
SPEAKER_00: Huh, what do you know?
23:23
SPEAKER_00: Anyways.
23:27
SPEAKER_00: I know that you can follow our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
23:34
SPEAKER_00: Through the refiner's fire, out the other side.
23:40
SPEAKER_00: If you like what you hear, donate to the show, buy my book, leave five stars, share this with others so that others may know where to seek the Lord.
23:59
SPEAKER_00: And as always, have a blessed day.