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Chris Fabry Live - Rosie's Book Club: The Screwtape Letters · Disciple Radio

• 0:05
  S1: We have waited so long for today. And it's here.
• 0:08
  S1: And you're about to enjoy another edition of Rosie's Book
• 0:11
  S1: Club 2.0. That's right, friends, she's back with some literature
• 0:16
  S1: that will make you think, ponder, and wander through the
• 0:19
  S1: world of words toward truth. We can believe and live today.
• 0:23
  S1: Doctor Rosalie de rosé helps us unpack the devilishly clever
• 0:27
  S1: thoughts and ideas of one Clive Staples Lewis and the
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  S1: book titled The Screwtape Letters. Our question on Facebook is
• 0:36
  S1: which letter from Screwtape have you found pertinent for today?
• 0:40
  S1: What quote, what idea, what section of that book speaks
• 0:44
  S1: to your life or our lives today? We'd love to
• 0:47
  S1: hear from you at the back fence. Write the number down.
• 0:50
  S1: Give us a call. Eight seven. It won't be the
• 0:52
  S1: same without you, friend. Eight. Seven. Seven. Five. Four. Eight. Three. Six. Seven. Five. Plus,
• 0:58
  S1: we have a special guest and a special response to
• 1:01
  S1: our question today. Oh, I'll keep you in suspense while
• 1:04
  S1: I thank our team. Ryan McConaughey doing all things technical.
• 1:07
  S1: Trish is our producer. Lisa's helping out. Josh will be
• 1:10
  S1: answering your calls today. And thank you back fence friends
• 1:14
  S1: who have given in October. We are about $200 from
• 1:17
  S1: our goal for the whole month. So if you have
• 1:20
  S1: not given call or click through today because there are
• 1:23
  S1: only three days left in our offer of Nancy DeMoss
• 1:25
  S1: Wolgemuth excellent 31 day advent devotional, consider Jesus. If you
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  S1: are in the choir saying, and I say, this Christmas
• 1:34
  S1: is more about tinsel and lights and less about Jesus
• 1:36
  S1: every year you've said that do something for your heart.
• 1:40
  S1: Read this devotional. I guarantee you you will come back
• 1:43
  S1: to it again and again. Or you might want to
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  S1: give it as a gift to someone you love. Nancy
• 1:48
  S1: DeMoss Wolgemuth consider Jesus is our thank you right now.
• 1:52
  S1: Give a gift of any size@kris.org. Help us reach our
• 1:56
  S1: goal for October. Chris avery.org. Or you can call the
• 2:00
  S1: number 86695 Faber and talk with a real live person. (866) 953-2279.
• 2:10
  S1: Help us reach that goal today. We can do it
• 2:12
  S1: together here at the Radio Backyard fence. Every time this
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  S1: guest appears on the program, I hear from people far
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  S1: and wide who say, have Rosie on more often. She
• 2:21
  S1: is retired professor of literature at Moody Bible Institute. She
• 2:25
  S1: taught there more than 50 years. We have her book
• 2:28
  S1: on Seduced and Unshaken The Place of Dignity in a
• 2:30
  S1: Woman's Choices. At our website, Chris Fabry live.org. Doctor Rosalie
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  S1: de Rose, welcome back to the Book club. How are
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  S1: you doing?
• 2:37
  S2: I'm doing well, thank you very much.
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  S1: We are excited to have you in the house today,
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  S1: especially talking about this book. But here's the thing. You
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  S1: suggested our second guest and you said you got to
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  S1: get Eva Rudnick because she has taught this book. She
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  S1: teaches courses in literature, Jewish culture, education at Moody, and
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  S1: she also serves with Chosen People Ministries, and she's a
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  S1: book lover and she loves this program too. Eva, thank
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  S1: you for doing this today.
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  S3: I'm so glad to be here with you guys. It's
• 3:08
  S3: so much fun for me.
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  S1: Okay, so let's start out with just a pullback. Why
• 3:12
  S1: is Screwtape important for us to look at Rosie.
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  S2: I think that he in this book shows himself to
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  S2: be a tremendous psychologist as well in in the broadest
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  S2: sense of the word that he understands the human psyche.
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  S2: And when you apply Christianity to it, he gets underneath
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  S2: our motivations and he makes us squirm. And I almost
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  S2: can't think of anything he doesn't address. He addresses our
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  S2: sense of humor. He addresses our sloth. He addresses gluttony.
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  S2: He talks about things that nobody else want to talk to,
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  S2: but he always does it in a fresh way, with
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  S2: the great stress being obedience. And I think probably one
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  S2: of the most important quotes that I would offer, it
• 3:55
  S2: stuns me every time I read it. Is that our.
• 3:58
  S2: He says our cause is. Of course this is the
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  S2: devil talking doublespeak, you know. In other words, this is.
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  S2: This is the devil arguing about what. How to capture
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  S2: people and how to hold them in the devil's power.
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  S2: Our cause, the devil says, is never more in danger
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  S2: than when a human no longer desiring but still intending
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  S2: to do, our enemies will looks around upon a universe
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  S2: from which every trace of him seems to have vanished,
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  S2: and asks why he has been forsaken and still obeys.
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  S2: I mean, that just gets to the heart of it.
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  S2: We obey in spite of anything that happens, and it's
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  S2: one of the hardest things to do. We go astray
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  S2: when obedience becomes too hard, or when it's not that
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  S2: we don't see evidence, when we see no evidence of
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  S2: God's action in our life, and we still obey. It's
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  S2: about obedience, and that involves every single choice under inspection
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  S2: in our lives.
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  S1: And that's what Screwtape does. He. He looks at what
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  S1: faith really is and wonders. And it's like we can't
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  S1: figure out what the enemy capital E, what the enemy
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  S1: is doing. So, Eva, your response to that? Why is
• 5:14
  S1: Screwtape important?
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  S3: I think that, um, he lets us see through the
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  S3: mouth of this young, young tempter and his older advisor. Uh,
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  S3: how temptation strikes us, because I think sometimes we are,
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  S3: we're mistaken. So we don't even see it coming. And
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  S3: all of a sudden we're down. And this book gives
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  S3: us a chance to take a look at it from
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  S3: the other side. He he said. In the introduction to Screwtape,
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  S3: Lewis wrote that the idea would be to give all
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  S3: the psychology. As Rosie was just saying, the idea would
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  S3: be to give all the psychology of temptation presented from
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  S3: the other point of view to prepare us. That's what
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  S3: he does.
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  S1: So he is is kind of an unreliable narrator, though,
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  S1: in the sense that there are some things that he
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  S1: says that you don't want to. And Lewis even talks
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  S1: about this at the beginning, and I'm not going to
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  S1: tell you where this is coming from. You know how
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  S1: I got this manuscript, but don't believe everything that he
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  S1: says because he's still a demon, right?
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  S3: Yeah. I mean, he says that the that Satan is
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  S3: a liar. So you can't believe anything that he says,
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  S3: even the things that he says about himself in from
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  S3: from the letters. Yes. Yeah.
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  S2: He is there to fuddle you. That's that's that's the line.
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  S2: He is there to. He's there to mess with your head.
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  S4: I like that. Yeah.
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  S1: And it's so true. So Eva, where did as far
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  S1: as the background of this. Where did this manuscript come from?
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  S3: Well, it's writing about the book and where the idea
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  S3: came from. Lewis says that it was after a church service,
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  S3: and he said he wished this could have come from
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  S3: a more seasonable, um, circumstance, but I was struck by
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  S3: the idea of a book which I might be both
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  S3: useful and entertaining. It would be called originally as One
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  S3: Devil to another, and would consist of letters from an
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  S3: elderly retired devil to a young devil who had just
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  S3: started out on his first patient, meaning, you know, young,
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  S3: young Christian. And so that that's sort of where the
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  S3: idea came to him about it. And it was he
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  S3: wrote that he wrote the book about in 1940 41.
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  S3: And when you think about what was he doing, what
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  S3: was going on in Lewis's life when he wrote this,
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  S3: it was the blitz. He was sheltering children in the kilns,
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  S3: kind of like we see in the Narnia Chronicles. He
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  S3: was still teaching at Oxford. He was reading with his
• 7:41
  S3: friends the inklings at the bird and the baby. He
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  S3: was too old to serve in the Second World War,
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  S3: because he had been wounded and served in the First
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  S3: World War. But he was serving, walking at night in
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  S3: the Home Guard, and he was broadcasting mere Christianity on
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  S3: the BBC. Kind of a kind of a busy time.
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  S4: A busy life. Now, he he also.
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  S1: Dedicated this to Tolkien. And as I recall, Tolkien had
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  S1: kind of a problem with this. You shouldn't be writing
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  S1: that kind of stuff. Did you did you ever hear
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  S1: anything like that?
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  S3: I did. He. And it just says dedicated to J.R.R. Tolkien.
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  S3: There's no other any words of affirmation. That's just the dedication.
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  S3: And Tolkien wrote back to him. Jack, you have no
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  S3: business writing books like that because you're neither ordained nor
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  S3: a theologian.
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  S2: So which Lewis, to his credit, never claimed to be
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  S2: a theologian.
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  S4: Right.
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  S2: Yes. So, yeah, he he was going to write a sequel.
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  S2: I read somewhere about from the point of view of
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  S2: an angel giving advice, but he realized he couldn't get
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  S2: into the angelic mind. but it was very easy to
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  S2: get into the diabolic mind.
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  S1: Yes. Okay, so that is our book for today, The
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  S1: Screwtape Letters. Eva. Go ahead. What were.
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  S3: You. I was going to say, although when he talked
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  S3: about writing it in in God in the dock, he
• 9:01
  S3: makes in his essay From God in the dock on cross-examination,
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  S3: he says that of all my books, there was only
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  S3: one that I did not take pleasure in writing. Mhm.
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  S3: The The Screwtape Letters. They were dry and gritty going.
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  S3: At the time, I was thinking of objections to the
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  S3: Christian life and decided to put them in the form
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  S3: of making bad good and and good bad. And it
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  S3: gets to be quite fatiguing. The strain produced a sort
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  S3: of spiritual cramp in me the work into which I
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  S3: had to reject myself while I spoke through Screwtape was
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  S3: all dust, grit, thirst, and itch. Every trace of beauty, freshness,
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  S3: and genealogy had to be excluded. It almost smothered me
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  S3: before I was done.
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  S2: I love that. That's really so interesting. Yeah.
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  S1: It is. And the, the struggle to do that and
• 9:53
  S1: look at what we have because I've gone through this
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  S1: in the last few weeks and I've highlighted some things.
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  S1: I have some quotes, but I want to hear from
• 10:01
  S1: you at 8775, four, 83675. What is it in The
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  S1: Screwtape Letters that struck you that sticks out to you?
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  S1: That's pertinent to your life today, to our lives in
• 10:15
  S1: this culture? (877) 548-3675 is our number. (877) 548-3675. The book club
• 10:34
  S1: is back with Doctor Rosalee de Rose. We're talking about
• 10:37
  S1: The Screwtape Letters by C.S. Lewis. Today. Eva Rudnick has
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  S1: taught this book at Moody Bible Institute for a long time.
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  S1: And so she's with us. and so are you. If
• 10:47
  S1: you have a response to our question today about a
• 10:51
  S1: a quote, an idea that sticks out to you from
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  S1: Screwtape (877) 548-3675. I'm not going to tell you who this is,
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  S1: Rosie and Eva, but I asked this question of this
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  S1: person and I said, what is it about Screwtape that
• 11:10
  S1: makes it come alive? That speaks to our heart and
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  S1: life today? And here's what this person said.
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  S5: I think for me, one of the most amazing things
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  S5: about The Screwtape Letters is the way in which Lewis
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  S5: gets us to look at our own congregations, our own
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  S5: ordinary churches, and the ordinary people who go to them.
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  S5: And from this perspective, these are just idiots, these are fools.
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  S5: But Lewis is saying, no, look more closely. They're special.
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  S5: They're people like you. They're people who God has chosen.
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  S5: See them in a new way, not the way the
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  S5: world sees them. And, you know, that's a really important insight.
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  S1: Rosie, what do you think of that?
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  S2: Oh, I think that's great. I don't know what chapter
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  S2: exactly he took that from, but I, I love the
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  S2: chapter two just for the congregant that when we go
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  S2: to church and we're distracted by our neighbors out of
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  S2: tune voice or her odd clothes, in my case, by
• 12:03
  S2: their use of the iPad or the the phone, I
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  S2: want to kill them, you know? End of story. And
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  S2: or you're distracted by immodesty or you're completely keeping out
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  S2: of your head the question, you know, if I, being
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  S2: what I am, consider that I am in some sense Christian,
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  S2: why should the different vices of those people in the
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  S2: next pew prove that their religion is mere heresy and convention?
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  S2: And that is such a that is such a good
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  S2: thing for him to admonish pastors on that attitude. Because honestly,
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  S2: you feel like humility is just missing everywhere in the
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  S2: posture of leadership toward the ordinary person who God loves.
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  S1: And Eva, what do you say about that?
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  S3: Yeah. I think that it's a I think that it's
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  S3: a great observation and one that is expanded in in
• 12:51
  S3: The Screwtape Letters, there's you could do a do a
• 12:54
  S3: whole study on just the view of of church in
• 12:58
  S3: the Screwtape Letters. He really holds our feet to the
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  S3: fire as far as our attitudes are concerned.
• 13:03
  S1: That was Doctor Alister McGrath from Oxford, and he wrote
• 13:08
  S1: he wrote the book on Lewis's life. He grew up.
• 13:12
  S1: He was born in Belfast in 53, but didn't start
• 13:15
  S1: reading Lewis until he told us yesterday, until the 1970s,
• 13:19
  S1: because he was a rabid atheist, just like Lewis was,
• 13:23
  S1: and his friends were telling him, you got to read,
• 13:25
  S1: you got to read C.S. Lewis. And so I thought
• 13:28
  S1: him talking about Screwtape was really important.
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  S3: Great.
• 13:31
  S1: There's one other clip I want to play for you, though,
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  S1: and this is from 1966. So the the book was
• 13:39
  S1: originally did it come out in the 40s? Uh, did
• 13:42
  S1: you say a little earlier? I can't remember when it
• 13:44
  S1: was first published.
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  S3: It was originally. It was originally published in a serial
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  S3: form in the Guardian magazine or Guardian newspaper in 41.
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  S1: Okay.
• 13:55
  S3: And it was published as a book in 42.
• 13:59
  S1: Okay. In 42. So in and then there were subsequent
• 14:04
  S1: editions that were put out. I want to take you
• 14:06
  S1: back to 1966. And our very own. We've celebrated 100
• 14:12
  S1: years of Moody Radio. In 1966, Moody Radio did a
• 14:17
  S1: version of The Screwtape Letters with Myron Canaday, and this
• 14:21
  S1: is the beginning of chapter two.
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  S6: Oh my dear Wormwood, I note with grave displeasure that
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  S6: your patient has become a Christian. Do not indulge the
• 14:34
  S6: hope that you will escape the usual penalties. Indeed, in
• 14:38
  S6: your better moments, I trust you would hardly even wish
• 14:41
  S6: to do so. In the meantime, we must make the
• 14:45
  S6: best of the situation. There is no need to despair.
• 14:49
  S6: Hundreds of these adult converts have been reclaimed after a
• 14:53
  S6: brief sojourn in the enemy's camp, and are now with us.
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  S6: All the habits of the patient, both mental and bodily,
• 15:04
  S6: are still in our favour.
• 15:07
  S3: Wow.
• 15:07
  S1: So there's hope. There's still hope.
• 15:09
  S3: Don't give up. Great voice. Wow.
• 15:11
  S1: Great.
• 15:12
  S2: He was in radio when I came and worked in radio.
• 15:15
  S2: He was still there.
• 15:16
  S1: He could do so many different voices. He would be.
• 15:19
  S1: He would be the voice of one character and then
• 15:22
  S1: be talking to himself as another character. So. So I
• 15:25
  S1: wanted to play, you know, just a little bit of
• 15:27
  S1: that of Myron. But that lets us into a little
• 15:31
  S1: bit of the theology. And maybe while Tolkien, Tolkien was saying, hey,
• 15:35
  S1: you shouldn't do theology. CS because they're in that, you know,
• 15:40
  S1: your patient, we've we've taken away those converts and reclaimed
• 15:45
  S1: them afterward. So you got to do some mental gymnastics
• 15:48
  S1: about the perseverance of the saints when you're reading that,
• 15:51
  S1: which is why I go back, Eva, and say, you
• 15:54
  S1: can't trust what Screwtape is saying to Wormwood every time.
• 15:59
  S3: Right, exactly. Um, I think it's interesting that one of
• 16:03
  S3: the things that Lewis warns about, um, besides he makes
• 16:07
  S3: it really clear that he is a liar, but he
• 16:10
  S3: also he chides us and gives us an alert about
• 16:13
  S3: what our attitude should be toward, uh, Satan. And, and
• 16:19
  S3: that's perfectly great timing, Chris, to be doing this right
• 16:22
  S3: before Halloween when there is so much emphasis on the supernatural.
• 16:28
  S3: We've moved a lot more from candy to the occult,
• 16:30
  S3: I think, over the last many years. But Lewis says
• 16:34
  S3: that the disbelief in the existence of devils and demons
• 16:38
  S3: is one extreme we should avoid. Or believing in the
• 16:42
  S3: devil and the demons that they have in existence is. Is.
• 16:46
  S3: And having an unhealthy interest in them should also be avoided.
• 16:50
  S3: He says. In the preface to Screwtape, Lewis says the
• 16:54
  S3: devils themselves are equally pleased by both errors and hail.
• 16:59
  S3: A materialist or a magician with the same delight?
• 17:03
  S1: Yes.
• 17:03
  S2: Yeah.
• 17:04
  S1: What do you think of that?
• 17:05
  S2: Oh yeah, I had that too in in my comments that,
• 17:08
  S2: and I say it often, as I'm sure anybody that's
• 17:11
  S2: read that does that is to take him too seriously
• 17:14
  S2: or not take him seriously enough and or although he
• 17:18
  S2: says it much better than that, but that applies to
• 17:22
  S2: people who just live their life in almost a terror,
• 17:25
  S2: even of even of Halloween. And this will be controversial
• 17:28
  S2: for some, but I, I see no problem with the
• 17:31
  S2: innocence of children and in costumes going about getting candy,
• 17:36
  S2: and sometimes I think we don't indulge the imagination of
• 17:41
  S2: the season. When I was growing up, there was no
• 17:43
  S2: problem with Halloween. Nobody had a problem with it. There
• 17:45
  S2: was none at the Institute, you know, and then it
• 17:48
  S2: went into an era of of, you know, Bible characters
• 17:51
  S2: in moldy church basements, which is enough to take I mean,
• 17:54
  S2: enough to scare anybody away from faith. Yeah. So it's,
• 17:58
  S2: it's that using it properly with God over it and,
• 18:04
  S2: and not getting so alarmist that really the devil has
• 18:07
  S2: a foot foot in your, in your property.
• 18:10
  S1: Yeah. Well, isn't it being, uh, guided, guarded by fear.
• 18:15
  S2: Yeah.
• 18:16
  S1: Rather than faith. And, and I, I'm very, I used
• 18:20
  S1: to be when I would do the you had the
• 18:22
  S1: old open line program. Now Michael, even Michael does open line.
• 18:25
  S1: But I did the old open line program, and every
• 18:27
  S1: October it'd come around. I know we'd have the lines
• 18:30
  S1: lit up if I had somebody on who said, don't
• 18:33
  S1: do this, and somebody else who said, go ahead. I
• 18:36
  S1: knew we'd have just all kinds of conflict. And the
• 18:39
  S1: older I've gotten, the more I've seen stirring people up. Yeah.
• 18:44
  S1: Is is not necessarily a really good thing. And if
• 18:48
  S1: you have really strong, you know, people in my own
• 18:51
  S1: life who have background in a cult and it they're
• 18:55
  S1: horrified by this and I understand that. Um, but other people,
• 19:00
  S1: as you say, Rosie, who don't see a problem with,
• 19:03
  S1: you know, handing out candy to people and, and you
• 19:08
  S1: can get into a lot of really vociferous arguments with that, right?
• 19:12
  S2: Which leads to that other chapter where I think it's
• 19:15
  S2: in the chapter on war, where when you adopt a
• 19:18
  S2: position that is so unbending and rigid, it takes on
• 19:21
  S2: a life of its own and it excludes it. And
• 19:25
  S2: one of the things he talks about the devil, the
• 19:27
  S2: devil always, uh, takes he gives nothing back. You know,
• 19:33
  S2: there's no enlargement of the spirit. And so when you
• 19:37
  S2: get stuck on one thing, it becomes it makes you small,
• 19:41
  S2: it makes the world small. And that is not to
• 19:43
  S2: say you're compromising. It just means that you, you, Jesus
• 19:48
  S2: is the center, not what you feel about Halloween or don't.
• 19:52
  S7: Right? Mhm.
• 19:53
  S1: Um, that was another thing that popped up to me
• 19:57
  S1: as I went through it this time. It's been a
• 19:58
  S1: few years since I've read it, and that is the
• 20:01
  S1: emphasis that Screwtape puts on devouring, devouring the, uh, the person, the, uh,
• 20:11
  S1: the individual, the human, you know, the animal as he
• 20:14
  S1: calls them. And also, uh, his, the way he says
• 20:20
  S1: this toward Wormwood that he's going to, you're going to
• 20:24
  S1: pay the penalty here. And we are I, I, uh,
• 20:28
  S1: I want a morsel of you that he's going to
• 20:31
  S1: consume him, which gets back to that whole thing that
• 20:34
  S1: you know, that the devil only takes. He never gives, uh, evil.
• 20:39
  S1: What do you what do you take from that?
• 20:40
  S3: I it it makes me think of what, what the
• 20:43
  S3: Lord Jesus said that he came to give us life
• 20:45
  S3: and give it to us abundantly. And Satan only comes
• 20:48
  S3: to to hate, kill and destroy. You know, he makes
• 20:52
  S3: an offer that is this is going to be something good.
• 20:54
  S3: I'm offering you this. And in the end, all, all
• 20:58
  S3: it is, is completely bad and completely disastrous. And he,
• 21:03
  S3: he talks about, um, in one of his letters where he, uh,
• 21:07
  S3: Screwtape talks about that they can't make anything. They can
• 21:11
  S3: only corrupt what's already been made. Yes. And that's what
• 21:14
  S3: he does.
• 21:15
  S1: And he's frustrated by that, too.
• 21:17
  S7: Yeah.
• 21:17
  S1: That he can't do anything original. It's only he can
• 21:20
  S1: only twist what the good thing that's been made. Right?
• 21:24
  S3: Right. Exactly.
• 21:26
  S2: And he says this about so many things. I mean,
• 21:29
  S2: it's of course he's very, very good on sex. But
• 21:32
  S2: when it comes to humor, I think that the chapter
• 21:35
  S2: on humor was so wonderful because I think we think
• 21:38
  S2: in terms of humor as very, very just two categories,
• 21:44
  S2: good or bad or, and bad is dirty jokes and good.
• 21:48
  S2: I don't know what good is, but humor that the
• 21:53
  S2: problem with humor used poorly, which I think it is
• 21:55
  S2: a lot today, is it destroys shame and it's not
• 21:59
  S2: related to joy or a playful instinct. It's problem is flippancy.
• 22:05
  S2: And one of the things I used to think about,
• 22:08
  S2: sometimes you'll hear somebody tell a joke, and it's not
• 22:10
  S2: completely up on exactly what you would say in a
• 22:16
  S2: church service, but it's terribly funny. And, and in the funniness,
• 22:21
  S2: it has killed the any any sense of wrong. I
• 22:26
  S2: hope everybody understands what I'm saying. There are things that
• 22:29
  S2: are just funny. And then there are things that are
• 22:32
  S2: that we laugh at that are not funny at all.
• 22:35
  S2: It's just flippant. Every fun is related to joy. It's
• 22:39
  S2: a playful instant. It's what we see in children. Flippancy
• 22:42
  S2: is the problem, and God flows over. And so even
• 22:47
  S2: our categories of humor we have to think about and
• 22:50
  S2: we have to think about what we laugh at. And
• 22:52
  S2: most of what we laugh at today is problematic.
• 22:55
  S7: Isn't this what Screwtape.
• 22:57
  S1: Talks about with the girl that he's, you know, his
• 23:00
  S1: girlfriend who's a Christian? And he one of the things
• 23:04
  S1: he mentions about her that's a real problem is that
• 23:07
  S1: she has a good sense of humor and she knows
• 23:09
  S1: satire and she can be, uh, you know, kind of
• 23:12
  S1: kind of sardonic, sarcastic or whatever that she this is
• 23:16
  S1: not a good thing because for him to see a
• 23:20
  S1: well-rounded person like this, your patient is, you know, you
• 23:24
  S1: got to keep her away, keep him away from people
• 23:26
  S1: like this. Do you agree with that, Eva?
• 23:29
  S3: Yeah. You know, he says that, uh. And in fact,
• 23:32
  S3: one of his goals would be to get a person
• 23:35
  S3: trapped into a kind of a marriage that would be
• 23:37
  S3: disastrous to them emotionally because of some of these very
• 23:41
  S3: elements that you're talking about.
• 23:42
  S2: I used to say to my students that, you know,
• 23:45
  S2: check if when you're thinking about marrying somebody, you know,
• 23:48
  S2: obviously check out their bathroom, the content of their Christianity.
• 23:52
  S2: And then number two, their sense of humor. Because if
• 23:54
  S2: they don't have one, you're going to have a really
• 23:56
  S2: hard life.
• 23:57
  S7: Yes. Yeah. Right. Exactly. Right. Okay.
• 23:59
  S1: So I'm, we're going to your calls (877) 548-3675. Joanne said this, uh,
• 24:07
  S1: in an email. I found the entire book very interesting
• 24:10
  S1: in that it captured how the daily creep of small
• 24:13
  S1: things can damage our walk with the Lord. The paragraphs
• 24:17
  S1: in chapter 12 are letter 12, where the dreary flickering
• 24:22
  S1: of the mind is mentioned is such a call to
• 24:25
  S1: vigilance in our relationship. Thanks for this great recommendation, Rosie.
• 24:29
  S1: What do you say about that?
• 24:30
  S2: Oh, I just love that. I. I often say, if
• 24:32
  S2: we do not live with delight, we. And if our
• 24:36
  S2: Christianity does not help us with delight, we are of
• 24:39
  S2: all creatures most miserable. And when our lives get very,
• 24:43
  S2: very small and all we can do is think about
• 24:46
  S2: the past and how the past was. And he is
• 24:49
  S2: very careful about permanent things, the balance of old and
• 24:53
  S2: new together. And we're not very good sometimes at permanent things,
• 24:56
  S2: but people that just get stuck in small, small lives
• 25:01
  S2: where they don't have any sense of delight. I was
• 25:04
  S2: just talking to a student the other day who was
• 25:06
  S2: struggling so hard with all he could think of was
• 25:09
  S2: that he disappointed God all the time. And and it
• 25:12
  S2: was because he hadn't had his devotions one day or
• 25:15
  S2: it hadn't been long enough. Or, you know, Jesus and others.
• 25:18
  S2: And you. What a wonderful way to spell joy and
• 25:19
  S2: all that stuff. We hear it, it. And I said,
• 25:23
  S2: you know, I think I think probably if you don't
• 25:27
  S2: have if you didn't have devotions today, but you took
• 25:30
  S2: great delight in what you saw coming on, God would
• 25:33
  S2: be very pleased with you. We have to think of
• 25:35
  S2: God differently.
• 25:36
  S7: Yes.
• 25:37
  S1: Oh, that's really, really good. And we're going to open
• 25:39
  S1: the lines for your calls. (877) 548-3675. Rosie's Book Club with
• 25:46
  S1: doctor Eva Redlich. I gave you a doctorate. Eva C.S.
• 25:49
  S1: Lewis Screwtape Letters today at the backyard fence. Friends, don't
• 26:04
  S1: you dare tune away because Rosie's Book Club 2.0, The
• 26:07
  S1: Screwtape Letters is what we're talking about today. But coming
• 26:10
  S1: up in just a few minutes, we are going to
• 26:12
  S1: announce what our next book club choice is, and you're
• 26:17
  S1: going to hear it right here, right here with Doctor
• 26:20
  S1: Rosalie de Rosé and Eva Rudnick who is joining us
• 26:25
  S1: a Screwtape Letters aficionado. And if you have not read
• 26:30
  S1: The Screwtape Letters, our hope is just us. Talking about
• 26:33
  S1: it will whet your appetite to do that. But if
• 26:36
  S1: you have read it, here's Mark on the line who
• 26:40
  S1: has and wants to weigh in. Hi, Mark. Go right ahead.
• 26:44
  S8: Yeah I am. I started reading Lewis when I was 15.
• 26:48
  S8: I'm now 68, and one of the things that's not
• 26:52
  S8: mentioned about The Screwtape Letters, that is right there in
• 26:55
  S8: his two quotations is one of the purposes for which
• 26:58
  S8: he wrote it. Now there's short quotations, so I'll give
• 27:01
  S8: them to you and then I'll tell you about the
• 27:03
  S8: great sacrifice he made in writing this book. Uh, Martin
• 27:08
  S8: Luther said the best way to drive out the devil,
• 27:11
  S8: if he will not yield to text of Scripture, is
• 27:14
  S8: to jeer and flout him, for he cannot bear scorn.
• 27:19
  S8: And then the other quotation is from Sir Thomas Moore,
• 27:21
  S8: and that one says the devil. The proud spirit cannot
• 27:27
  S8: endure to be mocked. And one of. One of my
• 27:29
  S8: friends was saying that whenever she's read The Screwtape Letters,
• 27:32
  S8: she finds herself laughing every page. And that's part of
• 27:36
  S8: the reason he wrote it was to mock out the devil.
• 27:40
  S7: Bingo. Bingo.
• 27:41
  S8: And then. And then the other thing is the sacrifice
• 27:44
  S8: he made. Now, Eva, you mentioned the dirt. Grit. The
• 27:50
  S8: first grit, dust and itch. Well, um, he, uh. Well,
• 27:57
  S8: he married Joyce Lewis. And then Joy came down with
• 28:03
  S8: a recurrence of her cancer, and it came down. It
• 28:06
  S8: came back with a vengeance. Now, I had a chance
• 28:10
  S8: to spend some time privately with Lewis's stepson, Douglas Gresham. And, uh, he, uh,
• 28:18
  S8: struck me as a very rational man, are not prone
• 28:22
  S8: to superstition. So I believed him when he said the
• 28:26
  S8: following in his talk in the Billy Graham Center for
• 28:29
  S8: the campus of Wheaton. He said that he believed that the.
• 28:36
  S8: The return of Joy's cancer was Satan's revenge on Lewis
• 28:40
  S8: for writing The Screwtape Letters. Wow, that is heavy duty stuff.
• 28:45
  S7: It is.
• 28:46
  S8: Now we can't. We can't prove that. But it's an
• 28:49
  S8: interesting thought, because we do know that it's Satan's purpose
• 28:54
  S8: to destroy, kill, hate. And that's why Lewis chose the
• 28:58
  S8: metaphor of spiritual cannibalism.
• 29:02
  S7: Okay.
• 29:03
  S1: So that's what I was getting, that this consumption we're
• 29:06
  S1: going to consume. Uh, that was great. I have observations there, Rosie.
• 29:11
  S1: What do you say about that?
• 29:12
  S2: Yeah. I mean, of course, we can never know that
• 29:15
  S2: kind of thing because both because the power of God
• 29:18
  S2: is greater than the power of the devil. But the
• 29:20
  S2: devil certainly comes in with tremendous things to discourage us.
• 29:25
  S2: And his her cancer was a very, very serious kind
• 29:29
  S2: of cancer. But I have a feeling that the way
• 29:31
  S2: that Joy and Lewis got back at that was by
• 29:35
  S2: the tremendous delight of their marriage, which he makes clear
• 29:39
  S2: in a grief observed. So even though the cancer came
• 29:43
  S2: back with a vengeance, and as it probably it was
• 29:46
  S2: in remission for a while. What they enjoyed together was,
• 29:50
  S2: first of all, the renewal of, of, of Lewis's spirit,
• 29:54
  S2: which had been so wounded by the death of his
• 29:56
  S2: mother and by other things in his life, and that,
• 30:00
  S2: you know, they had the God had the final word.
• 30:04
  S7: Yeah. He is sovereign. That's right.
• 30:07
  S1: Eva, what do you say about all that?
• 30:08
  S3: Well, I, I disagree with Rosie 100%. Yeah, 100%.
• 30:12
  S1: You wanted to talk about chapter 12. Eva, tell me why.
• 30:16
  S3: Well, because he sometimes we think that the small things
• 30:20
  S3: that we do don't make very much difference. A little
• 30:23
  S3: bit like the person that was feeling like they would
• 30:26
  S3: let God down because they didn't have devotions that day
• 30:28
  S3: or whatever, were plagued by things that we look at. And, uh, in,
• 30:33
  S3: in letter 12, he says that, that, but do remember
• 30:38
  S3: that the only thing that matters is the extent to
• 30:41
  S3: which you separate the man from the enemy, meaning the
• 30:44
  S3: believer from the Lord God. It does not matter how
• 30:47
  S3: small the sins are, provided that the cumulative effect is
• 30:51
  S3: to edge the man away from the light and out
• 30:54
  S3: into the. Nothing indeed.
• 30:57
  S2: So good.
• 30:57
  S3: The safest road to hell is the gradual one, the
• 31:00
  S3: gentle slope, soft underfoot without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts,
• 31:09
  S3: and that Satan wants to have us not pay much
• 31:13
  S3: attention to the small things. And the small things are
• 31:15
  S3: so important. One of the things I really appreciate about Lewis,
• 31:18
  S3: as he's consistent in the things that he writes across
• 31:21
  S3: the many books that he's written. I agree. And this section,
• 31:25
  S3: I bet for you too, Rosie, makes you think of
• 31:28
  S3: what he said in Mere Christianity. He said, every time
• 31:31
  S3: you make a choice, you are turning the central part
• 31:33
  S3: of you, the part that chooses into something a little
• 31:37
  S3: different than what it was before taking your life as
• 31:40
  S3: a whole. With all your innumerable choices, you are slowly
• 31:44
  S3: turning the central thing either into a heavenly creature or
• 31:49
  S3: into a hellish one.
• 31:50
  S7: Oh.
• 31:51
  S2: That is so wonderful. And if that becomes the mantra
• 31:56
  S2: of your life, the little, the little failures as you
• 32:00
  S2: come back from them and make the next choice the
• 32:03
  S2: next time. Just become you feel Christ walking alongside of you.
• 32:08
  S2: I mean, it's an experience I've had very profoundly in
• 32:10
  S2: the last year or two of, of, of seeing my
• 32:14
  S2: failures in new ways because of new Circumstances, but never
• 32:17
  S2: letting it beat me and saying yes, I failed and
• 32:21
  S2: I never feel Christ glowering at me. I feel him
• 32:25
  S2: saying that. That's right. Just keep going on, Rosie.
• 32:28
  S3: I love you. Keep going, I love you.
• 32:30
  S2: Keep going and and not to do it is what
• 32:33
  S2: he talks about as sloth and sloth. Is this this
• 32:38
  S2: thing that nobody talks about? I do a whole unit
• 32:40
  S2: on acedia when I used to teach literature, and I
• 32:43
  S2: think it caught the students attention more than anything else
• 32:46
  S2: because it's, it's, it's, it's, it's settling. It's just settling.
• 32:50
  S2: It's not wanting the good it's in. And I tell them,
• 32:54
  S2: if you can build your will by taking the stairs
• 32:56
  S2: instead of the elevator, by eating a little less, by
• 33:00
  S2: making your bed every morning, it takes 1.5 minutes. If
• 33:05
  S2: you can do these things not as acts in themselves,
• 33:08
  S2: but as the strengthening of the will toward good, it
• 33:11
  S2: makes such a huge difference. All those little choices. Sin
• 33:14
  S2: is a sin. When we finally fall into it is
• 33:17
  S2: is a result of so many little things that we
• 33:21
  S2: let go and. Exactly. And he says it's caring for nothing.
• 33:26
  S2: Sloth is caring for nothing. And and we have to care.
• 33:30
  S2: We have to care all the time. I said to
• 33:32
  S2: that student I was talking to, he cares. He cares
• 33:35
  S2: about it. That's why he's talking about it. And God
• 33:37
  S2: is pleased with him because he hasn't stopped caring.
• 33:40
  S7: MM.
• 33:42
  S1: That brings up something that that I found kind of
• 33:45
  S1: between the lines. And maybe I'm reading too much into it.
• 33:47
  S1: So you tell me Eva Redlich is here, doctor Rosalie
• 33:50
  S1: de rosé. We're talking about The Screwtape Letters and that
• 33:53
  S1: is this uh, and partly is the idea of sloth
• 33:57
  S1: and the choices. But this move toward comfort, this move
• 34:02
  S1: toward going away from anything that's hard or moving toward
• 34:08
  S1: what my goal is so that I reach the goal
• 34:13
  S1: so that I feel better. As Lewis talks a lot
• 34:15
  S1: about that in this book is like, make them feel
• 34:19
  S1: everything is about how you feel and not about what is.
• 34:23
  S1: And that's why the quote on, um, that you gave
• 34:26
  S1: a little earlier, Rosie, is, is so important that that
• 34:30
  S1: will still obey even though you feel forsaken. You know,
• 34:34
  S1: Psalm 22, uh, the cross, even though you feel forsaken,
• 34:38
  S1: you will obey. Uh, I feel like this culture and
• 34:43
  S1: maybe this heart moves toward comfort rather than, what do
• 34:49
  S1: you want me to do here? What what do I
• 34:51
  S1: when do I need to keep quiet and not say
• 34:54
  S1: anything that doesn't give me comfort? I want to say
• 34:57
  S1: something that makes it all better. And usually it makes
• 35:00
  S1: it worse. Does that sing in either of your souls?
• 35:03
  S2: Oh, yeah. Uh, I mean, it's a culture that that
• 35:09
  S2: and this is a little off off the subject, but
• 35:11
  S2: we abandon the things that we know to be right
• 35:15
  S2: in favor of the things that seem to be important
• 35:18
  S2: or right or easy, or will take us somewhere. Yes, absolutely.
• 35:24
  S3: Yeah.
• 35:24
  S7: Eva, what do you think?
• 35:25
  S3: Yeah, I think that and I think and in 2026,
• 35:30
  S3: way even more than in 1941 when he wrote this,
• 35:33
  S3: I think that we are, uh, the, the mantra of
• 35:38
  S3: our culture is self-care. Just take care of yourself. You know,
• 35:44
  S3: it doesn't matter what what you have to abandon, just
• 35:47
  S3: as long as you're taking care of yourself. Do the
• 35:50
  S3: easy thing. All of that. It just it's it's counter scriptural.
• 35:54
  S3: And I think that that Screwtape deals with this. And
• 35:58
  S3: one of the my favorite bits in the is letter 29,
• 36:02
  S3: where he talks about courage. It takes courage to do
• 36:05
  S3: the right thing instead of doing the easy thing or
• 36:07
  S3: doing the comfortable thing. And he says in letter 29,
• 36:11
  S3: He said this, indeed is probably one of the enemy's
• 36:14
  S3: motives for creating a dangerous world, a world in which
• 36:18
  S3: moral issues really come to the point he sees as
• 36:23
  S3: well as you do. That courage is not simply one
• 36:26
  S3: of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at
• 36:29
  S3: the testing point, which means at the point of highest reality,
• 36:34
  S3: a chastity or honesty or mercy will only be chaste
• 36:39
  S3: or honest or merciful only on condition. Pilate was merciful
• 36:45
  S3: till it became risky.
• 36:47
  S7: Wow.
• 36:48
  S2: Yeah. Untried virtue. Yeah. It's so good.
• 36:51
  S1: So if you've never read Screwtape, I hope you will.
• 36:54
  S1: After hearing Doctor Eva Redlich, Doctor Rosalie de rosé. I
• 36:58
  S1: keep giving you a doctorate. Eva, you got to come
• 37:00
  S1: back and.
• 37:00
  S7: Get the the scroll and wear the hat.
• 37:02
  S2: Yeah. She has one.
• 37:04
  S7: We, uh we.
• 37:05
  S1: Are going to tell you what the next we finished
• 37:08
  S1: Screwtape and then we're going to tell you what the
• 37:10
  S1: next book club choice is. Straight ahead on Moody Radio.
• 37:25
  S1: What a fun exercise in literature. Rosie s Book Club
• 37:28
  S1: 2.0 here on Chris Avery Live the Radio Backyard Fence
• 37:32
  S1: doctor Rose Lydia Rose is leading us today from C.S.
• 37:36
  S1: Lewis's The Screwtape Letters. If you haven't read it, I
• 37:39
  S1: hope this whets your appetite. And Eva Rudnick, who has
• 37:43
  S1: taught this book for a long time at Moody Bible Institute.
• 37:46
  S1: So hope you've enjoyed the conversation today. Get back into it.
• 37:50
  S1: But first we are going to tell you what in December,
• 37:54
  S1: I believe we actually picked the date too, because last
• 37:57
  S1: time we didn't pick the date for this December the 8th,
• 38:01
  S1: we are going to announce right now, ladies and gentlemen,
• 38:04
  S1: write it down. You need to get a copy of. Book.
• 38:12
  S1: A Christmas Carol by Charles Dickens.
• 38:15
  S7: Yay!
• 38:19
  S1: All right, Charlie. We're coming for you, Charles Dickens. Rosie.
• 38:23
  S1: Why is that book important?
• 38:25
  S2: Well, it's just, first of all, it's just consummately Christmas. Christmas. Uh,
• 38:30
  S2: it's also about a man who has been who is
• 38:33
  S2: awakened from the, in a way, the acedia of being
• 38:38
  S2: caught in his background. And it has it has shriveled
• 38:41
  S2: his soul. His soul has become wormy. And he has
• 38:44
  S2: to be awakened. Of course, it's it's not explicitly Christian. We. Dickens.
• 38:49
  S2: There are a lot of church steeples in Dickens, but
• 38:51
  S2: not a lot of salvation by faith. But it's just
• 38:54
  S2: this marvelous big story about coming out of the darkness
• 38:59
  S2: into the light.
• 39:00
  S1: Okay, here's what I'll say. If you've if you've seen
• 39:04
  S1: all the films and all the spin off films and everything. Uh,
• 39:09
  S1: read the actual text. Read the book or there are
• 39:14
  S1: some great audiobooks out that that have the text of this,
• 39:18
  S1: but read it and listen and see if you pick
• 39:21
  S1: up anything. Every time I read this, it's very short.
• 39:24
  S1: Every time I read this, I pick up something new.
• 39:27
  S1: So a Christmas Carol, December 8th. Don't you dare miss it.
• 39:30
  S1: Now we go to the studio and Tricia McMillan. Tricia,
• 39:34
  S1: tell us about Screwtape.
• 39:37
  S7: Oh.
• 39:38
  S9: Sorry. I was talking to a caller. Um, so so
• 39:42
  S9: what I was what I was, um, I guess not
• 39:45
  S9: fascinated by so often we are looking for what is
• 39:49
  S9: our goal. And we often we have a goal for
• 39:52
  S9: whatever that is. And the goal in this seems to
• 39:56
  S9: not be an actual goal as much as diversion, misdirection,
• 40:00
  S9: distraction like to keep us from getting to the goal
• 40:03
  S9: as followers of Christ. So anyway, the quote that really
• 40:07
  S9: stuck out to me for today's society, and one that
• 40:13
  S9: even as I read it, I was like, oh, I
• 40:16
  S9: do this. I shouldn't do this. Um, was where, uh,
• 40:21
  S9: it's also in letter 12, but, um, where the person
• 40:26
  S9: was struggling. Um, and Screwtape says a few weeks ago,
• 40:30
  S9: you had to tempt him to unreality and inattention in
• 40:33
  S9: his prayers, but now you find him opening his arms
• 40:36
  S9: to you and almost begging you to distract his purpose
• 40:39
  S9: and benumb his heart, you will find that anything or
• 40:43
  S9: nothing is sufficient to attract his wandering attention. You no
• 40:46
  S9: longer need a good book, which he really likes to
• 40:49
  S9: keep him from his prayers, or his work or his sleep.
• 40:51
  S9: A column of advertisements in yesterday's paper will do. You
• 40:55
  S9: can make him waste his time, not only in conversation
• 40:59
  S9: he enjoys with people whom he likes, but in conversations
• 41:02
  S9: with those he cares nothing about, on subjects that bore him.
• 41:06
  S9: You can make him do nothing at all for long periods.
• 41:09
  S9: You can keep him up late at night, not roistering,
• 41:12
  S9: but staring at a dead fire in a cold room.
• 41:15
  S9: All the healthy and outgoing activities which we want him
• 41:17
  S9: to avoid can be inhibited and nothing given in return.
• 41:21
  S9: So that at last you may say, as one of
• 41:23
  S9: my own patients said on his arrival down here, I
• 41:26
  S9: now see that I spent most of my life in
• 41:29
  S9: doing neither what I ought nor what I liked. Yeah.
• 41:33
  S9: And I was like, this.
• 41:34
  S3: Is great.
• 41:34
  S9: Scrolling on social media.
• 41:36
  S2: Technology. Yeah.
• 41:37
  S9: Like I just going through a TV, like flipping through channels.
• 41:41
  S9: If you want to go even before all the social.
• 41:44
  S7: What does that make you.
• 41:45
  S1: Feel? Then at the end of that, it makes you
• 41:47
  S1: feel empty, like there's something that has been taken from you.
• 41:51
  S7: Right?
• 41:51
  S9: That's right. And apparently I willingly gave it all to nothing.
• 41:55
  S7: Yeah, yeah. Ah, that's.
• 41:57
  S1: Tricia. Thank you. Uh, my quote I haven't given mine yet.
• 42:01
  S1: And this is in chapter 13, letter 13, the man
• 42:04
  S1: who truly and disinterestedly enjoys any one thing in the
• 42:10
  S1: world for its own sake and without caring tuppence. What
• 42:15
  S1: other people say about it is by that very fact
• 42:19
  S1: forearmed against some of our subtlest modes of attack.
• 42:25
  S7: So good.
• 42:26
  S1: And. And in that, I think rosy. He's he's calling
• 42:29
  S1: out beauty in a sense, isn't he?
• 42:32
  S2: Yes. Oh. Oh. I mean, when you love something and
• 42:36
  S2: delight in it, and I mean in the in the
• 42:38
  S2: very purest sense of the word and you don't care.
• 42:42
  S2: It's not not what everybody else is doing. Maybe somebody
• 42:45
  S2: has thought it was childish, but you do it for
• 42:48
  S2: the love of it. Usually when you love something, there's
• 42:51
  S2: something beautiful in there, or substantial or playful or delightful.
• 42:56
  S2: You have enhanced your spirit. I don't think most people
• 42:59
  S2: even do what they like. They do What is there
• 43:03
  S2: that other people are doing, or they have fallen into
• 43:06
  S2: the trap of the culture?
• 43:08
  S1: Uh, evil. What about the person of Christ in Screwtape?
• 43:12
  S3: Uh, yeah. It's interesting. You might not, when you take
• 43:15
  S3: the book as a whole, he has a lot to
• 43:17
  S3: say about the Lord Jesus, but he says, um, one
• 43:22
  S3: of the things is how we how the enemy, how
• 43:25
  S3: they Wormwood and Screwtape and the lot try to distract us.
• 43:29
  S3: It said in the first place, they all tend to
• 43:32
  S3: direct men's devotion to something which does not exist for
• 43:36
  S3: each historical Jesus is unhistorical, but that the way that
• 43:41
  S3: Jesus is presented in the culture is not who Jesus
• 43:44
  S3: really is in the scriptures. And yet it's so effectively misleading.
• 43:51
  S3: We thus distract men's minds from who he is and
• 43:55
  S3: what he did. The earliest converts were converted by a
• 43:59
  S3: single historical fact, the resurrection and a single theological doctrine,
• 44:05
  S3: the redemption. Oh, I love that.
• 44:07
  S2: That is so good. And that could happen. And even
• 44:10
  S2: theological classes. Yes. Christian schools. People get distracted with the arguments,
• 44:16
  S2: with the. And they have not read the Gospels and
• 44:18
  S2: the narrative of the bigness of Christ as a three
• 44:22
  S2: dimensional person.
• 44:23
  S3: Yes.
• 44:24
  S2: Yeah.
• 44:25
  S1: We had a caller who was asking, what do you
• 44:27
  S1: think about Tolkien's pushback about demonic things or the use
• 44:33
  S1: of imagination in this? Eva, what do you say to that?
• 44:36
  S3: I didn't say that Tolkien pushed back about demonic things.
• 44:40
  S3: I just think he thought that that, uh, Lewis was
• 44:43
  S3: a little bit over his head dealing with with all
• 44:47
  S3: of these issues. I don't think it was a demonic
• 44:50
  S3: issue with Tolkien that he was dealing.
• 44:51
  S2: He didn't like The Chronicles of Narnia. He didn't see anybody.
• 44:54
  S3: He wasn't a fan of the Chronicles either. You know.
• 44:56
  S1: But isn't that interesting that they were such great friends
• 44:59
  S1: and they had disagreement about, you know, I don't think
• 45:02
  S1: that's a good idea for you to do, and you shouldn't.
• 45:04
  S1: And they still had the gravitas to go ahead and
• 45:08
  S1: do what they felt like God had called them to do.
• 45:11
  S3: Right. And they both loved the Lord Jesus and loved
• 45:13
  S3: one another. And I. Tolkien said when Lewis died, he
• 45:16
  S3: felt as if a part of himself had been chopped away.
• 45:20
  S1: Yeah. Great idea. Rosie, thank you for suggesting this. This
• 45:24
  S1: has been a real. And I read this when I
• 45:26
  S1: was a teenager. I think Mark said that as well.
• 45:29
  S1: I read it as a teenager and as I read
• 45:30
  S1: it again now, many years later, I'm wondering how much
• 45:35
  S1: did I absorb when I was a teenager? Because there's such,
• 45:39
  S1: you know, even the idea of the warfare that's going
• 45:42
  S1: on in World War Two at the time of war
• 45:44
  S1: and writing this at that point and doing that historically
• 45:48
  S1: to look at what are the demons trying to do?
• 45:50
  S1: How are they using this? I found it really fascinating.
• 45:53
  S1: And so if you've never read The Screwtape Letters, there
• 45:56
  S1: you go. There's an over a flyover of it and
• 45:59
  S1: the import of it from here at the back fence. Right.
• 46:03
  S1: December 8th Down A Christmas Carol by Charles Dickens. We're
• 46:07
  S1: going to talk about it right here at the Radio
• 46:09
  S1: Backyard fence. Rosie, you come back and see us then,
• 46:13
  S1: my friend. All right.
• 46:14
  S2: We'll be there.
• 46:15
  S1: And Eva, thank you. I've gotten some texts from Michael
• 46:18
  S1: as we've been on the program here today. Isn't that
• 46:21
  S1: isn't that wonderful?
• 46:22
  S3: Quality candy? That's what we give it. Halloween.
• 46:24
  S1: Yeah. We, uh, we we grabbed his heart and we
• 46:27
  S1: wouldn't let go. And Eva, God bless you, friend. Thanks
• 46:30
  S1: for doing this today.
• 46:30
  S3: So great to be with you.
• 46:32
  S1: And thank you, friend, for coming along to the Radio
• 46:34
  S1: Backyard fence. If you enjoy these conversations, tell somebody else
• 46:38
  S1: about them. Go download the podcast, send it to a
• 46:40
  S1: friend or family member, support what we do@cris.org and come
• 46:45
  S1: on back tomorrow. Our program is production of Moody Radio,
• 46:49
  S1: a Ministry of Moody Bible Institute.