Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Ep. 1030: Foundations - Dissecting the Day-to-Day Lives of Deer

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Ep. 1030: Foundations - Dissecting the Day-to-Day Lives of Deer · Wired To Hunt Podcast

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt Foundations podcast, your guide
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: to the fundamentals of better deer hunting, presented by first Light,
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: creating proven versatile hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: First Light, Go Farther, Stay Longer, and now your host
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: Tony Peterson.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: Hey everyone, welcome to the Wired to Hunt Foundation's podcast,
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: which is brought to you by first Light. I'm your host,
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: Tony Peterson, and today's episode is all about how we
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: often think of deer in a way that doesn't give
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: them enough credit for just their day to day lives
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: and what they do.
• 0:35
  Speaker 3: You know why most hunters don't kill big bucks.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: Well, there's a lot of reasons, actually, but one that
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: stands out is that they just don't really think about
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: how deer lived their lives. They think about how the
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: seasonal timing or the weather should get deer moving. But
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: that's about as deep as it goes, and honestly, most
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: of the time, that's just not deep enough. I'm going
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: to tell you exactly what I mean right now. This
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: Turkey season started off with an absolute whimper.
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: For me.
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: I've had this happen before, especially when it starts out
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: with colder than average weather. You know, when those temps
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: are low, the hens like to go eat for most
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: of the day, and where they eat for most of
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: the day, most of the toms will beat. You just
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: don't get a lot of the flocks busting up. You
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: don't get a lot of that two year old cruising
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: type stuff. But when it breaks, you tend to have
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: a lot of good hunting real quickly. That's what happened
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: to the girls and I this year. For the first
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: days of the season, we put in a lot of
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: blind time and saw exactly one hen. I didn't have
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: a bird gobble within three hundred yards of me during
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: those early days, and it was rough. Then we went
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: out for an after school sit while the wind was
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: coming in hard from the south, and the birds just
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: started gobbling. And when that wind died down, just about
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: when the turkey should have been thinking about getting back
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: to roost, we had a tom come in behind us
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: that really distracted us from a pair of jakes that
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: came in front of us. By some miracle, both girls
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: made good shots and we went from a dud of
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: a season to celebrating a double. The following morning, I
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: grabbed my bow and filled a yetti full of coffee
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: and went out to see what I could do about
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: filling my tag. I had one bird to work with
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: off the roost, but he met up with a couple
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: of girlfriends and never showed himself, despite me thinking he
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: was going to. And when he finally gobbled away, I
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: actually watched a group of three bucks on a ridge
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: in front of me.
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: Watched those birds leave.
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: Now, those bucks were all feeding on just fresh grass,
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: and so were the four dozen fawns that went through. Later,
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: I managed to call in a couple hens and then
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: get a bird to gobble close enough that I could
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: hear him spitting in drumming. For some reason, he didn't
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: come in, and when he sounded off maybe seventy five
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: to eighty yards away, I hit the panic button, grabbed
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: a slate in two mouthcalls, gobbled once myself, and then
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: set off a hen party with as much enthusiasm as
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: I could summon, which is a lot. Then I shut
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: up and totally zoned out, only to be snapped back
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: to reality by a full strutter in my decoys at
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: six yards. He didn't make it more than fifteen yards
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: from my blind before piling up, And I'll tell you something.
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: It was frickin' awesome. I love shooting turkeys.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: With shotguns, but it is just so satisfying to thump
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: them with an arrow at distances you could almost kill
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: them with a sword, which, by the way, my buddy
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: and I decided earlier this year, after spending twelve birdless
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: hours in a blind, that we could accomplish in a
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: full season if you let us use decoys and calls.
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: We also debated how long it would take us to
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: get a pheasant or a buck with a sword, and
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: couldn't come to an agreement on a reasonable timeline. That
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: morning that I shot that turkey was full of animal sightings,
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: and it was just fun to watch and photograph those
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: scruffy looking shed bucks just mowing down on the fresh greenery.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: And it kind of made me realize that I didn't
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: have a clue where they would head off to bed,
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: or where they had spent the night feeding, or really
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: anything about them, probably because I don't really need and
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: neither do you. What the bucks are doing in April
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: isn't all that important to what they will be doing
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: in October or November, but it doesn't mean there isn't
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: some value to thinking about them. There are three things
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: I think about a lot that might sort of frame
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: this up. The first is just people and their lives.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: You can know someone, you can be married to someone,
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: you can raise someone as your child, whatever, and still
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: not know their everyday lives. We have interactions with people
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: and places we like to go and things we like
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: to do that no one in our lives will ever
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: really know about. For example, if you offered my wife
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: ten grand to name this podcast, she definitely wouldn't be
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: able to. Our work lives are separate lives from our
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: home lives, just like our social lives vary and on
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: and on. We can't know everything about everyone, and we
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: often know almost nothing about most of the people in
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: our lives. Maybe a more relatable example comes from the
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: fishing world. I'm about to embark on some new fishing
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: content for me this year, which will involve a lot
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: of planning around lakes and rivers I've never been to
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: while fishing on a limited timeframe with a fairly lofty
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: goal in mind. Most people who buy fishing licenses don't
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: really think a lot about whether the croppies should be
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: doing this or that, or the walleye should be shallow
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: or deep or whatever. They just go fishing and they
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: try to catch something, usually by fishing the way they
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: were taught growing up. Now, there's nothing wrong with that,
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: and fishing is a forgiving sport generally, so it'll work out,
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: you know, good enough. But if you talk to someone
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: who's totally ate up with it, they'll speak in far
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: more specific details. You know, they'll say something like the
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: water tamp is in the low fifties, so the bass
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: might just start to whack a buzz bait in the shallows.
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: That kind of thing.
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: Now, my third example here, which I'm both baffled by
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: and eternally grateful for, is the pheasant thing.
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: I see.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: Almost all hunters go after pheasants the same way. Now,
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: if you do this enough, you know, walk enough of
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: the easy grass along the outer perimeter where the birds
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: can get to the neighboring cornfields, you're going to kill
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: some roosters, particularly if you're there late enough for the
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: birds to be walking back into the cover for the evening.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: But that plan isn't so great at I don't know,
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: noon most of the time, and it isn't so great
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: if the wind is blown fifty miles per hour, or
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: it's raining, or if you're the third hunter to get
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: there and try that same trick on some Saturday in
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: late October. And all of this stuff applies to white
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: tails too. Now I'm going to cover curiosity in hunters
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: in a couple of weeks, so I'll skip that for now. Instead,
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: I want to use one last example that occurred to
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: me very recently well bow hunting turkeys down in public
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: land in Nebraska. There was a big flock of most
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: of the birds on that property that I was interested in,
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: but they weren't really interested in me at all. Then
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: there were a handful of jakes and a few tombs
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: and a few loner hens that weren't part of the flock.
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: They weren't all that responsive. They're pretty cagy. They required
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: a lot more finesse in the decoy spreads and blinds
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: and calling than I gave them at first, and it
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: showed in my results. I was thinking about spring turkeys
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: as a whole, and not about the specific birds I
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: was dealing with in a very specific situation, those kGy
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: jakes and Tom's that probably had come out on the
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: losing end of all the fighting that establishes the spring
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: pecking order. They needed a soft cell approach because they'd
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: been booted out over weakness. Most likely that made me
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: realize something about deer, which is not all that revolutionary,
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: but might be for some of us.
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: Think about this.
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: Think about sitting on a stand in the early season,
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: I say, mid September, and a buck steps out into
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: the field. Let's say he's at the bottom end of
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: what you'd consider shooting, and maybe he's one hundred and
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: five or one hundred and ten inch eight pointer, a
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: great deer to a lot of people, and a foresure
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: shooter to a lot of people, but also not a
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: sure thing for many hunters. He's big enough to get
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: your attention either way, though, and he's the first deer
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: in the field. Now, maybe he was just super hungry,
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: and maybe that explains why he's there then, or maybe
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: he's not the top dog, which is really likely, and
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: he just has to bed closer to the field in
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: a less advantageous spot than the bigger, tougher deer that
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: use that bench on the hillside way back in the cover.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: You look at that buck and you don't think about that.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: You think there's a pretty good one, and he's not
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: in range, but i'd like him to be So maybe
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: you throw out a contact grunt three and you get
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: a neutral reaction, so you grab your rattling antlers, or
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: maybe you decide to snort wheeze at him because your
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: favorite deer podcaster talks about snort wheezing as if it's magic.
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: Then you get a negative response. He walks away. Now
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: instead of him being one hundred and twenty five yards away,
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: you can barely see him in the far corner of
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: the field, and as it gets later, a much bigger deer,
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: one that you would no doubt shoot, steps out. But
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: you've already influenced the scene to a degree where one
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: of the confidence deer has walked away from you. Instead
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: of thinking about why that buck is there and how
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: receptive he might be to calling, you called to him
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: like you would all bucks that you'd consider shooting, and worse,
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: you try to call to him like maybe it was
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: late October or early November and not in the middle
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: of September. Look, that's okay, we all do stuff like this.
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: But when you get that neutral reaction in the first
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: moments of contact, pushing it to make something happen is
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: usually not a great move. But if you'd just taken
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: his temperature and decided it would be best to play
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: it cool, he might have stayed closer and when that
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: bigger deer came out. Now you have that situation with
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: two bucks, which makes them so much more callable for
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: some reason, especially in the early season, at least it
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: usually does in my experience, a better bet might have
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: been just to not make contact at all, unless you
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: were positive you wanted to shoot that first buck. Watching
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: an early season buck and then two early season bucks
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: hit a field in a certain.
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: Spot like that is just to gift.
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: And if you have a way to be mobile, which
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: includes sitting on the ground, so you definitely do have
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: a way, then making a move to them might have
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: been a much better approach than trying to get them
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: to make a move to you. This is dependent on
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: a whole bunch of outside factors too, you know, like
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: how much hunting pressure they've experienced, not only that season
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: but in their lives, because they don't forget that shit,
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: even if they get a little dulled up on their
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: game over the summer. Now, if you follow this thread
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: just a little further, you run into something I've talked
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: about a lot, which I truly believe, and that is
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: for most of us and the deer we hunt. If
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: you want to call them in, you should go get
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: to as close as you can to where they feel secure.
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: Grunting in a buck in late September and the timber
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: back where he.
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: Likes the stage.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: That's a different thing than seeing him pop out in
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: the field twenty minutes before dark and trying to call
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: him in once he's finally gotten to the groceries and
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: knows he's in more of a dangerous zone. You kind
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: of have to try to not only think like deer,
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: but think like the individual deer you're working with. This
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: isn't uncommon advice in the deer world, but it often
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: gets mixed up in the pursuit of a single buck.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: This is one of those topics that drives me nuts
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: for a few reasons. Figuring out individual bucks on really
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: good ground isn't that difficult, and that's where this strategy
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: comes from. But it gets a lot more difficult when
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: you don't have the keys to the gate. But you
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: do have a lot of other people influencing the deer.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: If you want to focus on a hit list buck,
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: that's great, but don't think about just him like you
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: often see on hunting content. For most of us, we
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: have to think about all of the deer and what
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: they should be doing, and all of the other people
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: who might come into play on the pursuit of just
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: that deer. It's not just where does this buck bed
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: and eat, which you can partially figure out with trail cameras,
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: although you'll get a very small window into a much
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: bigger deer experience, but it's also where are the deer
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: going to go once the hunters show up, and once
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: the hunters have been there for a week and for
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: a month and on and on. I know there's nothing
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: revolutionary there, but you know, most likely a few spots
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: where the buck on your mind is going to end
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: up feeding, and maybe roughly where he'll spend his days
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: when it's shooting light. But there's a lot more to it,
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: and this is one of the reasons why winter scouting
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: is so important. When you don't know where to find him,
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: now you can think about where he or other bucks
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: left their sign last year when you can get pictures
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: of him but can't lay eyes on him. Thinking back
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: to the clues from last season and what they might
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: mean in the moment, that's.
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: A big deal.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: When I watch those bucks feeding the other morning while
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: turkey hunting, they didn't do anything that gives me much
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: to work with until they left to bed, and they
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: all followed a route that I've seen fall bucks follow
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: and come to think of it, quite a few strutting tongs.
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: That's actionable. Trust me, I'm going to use it. So
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: what this is, or what I'm trying to tell you,
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: which is clear as mud, is that the more you
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: think about the animals and the fish as individuals and
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: slight sense, but also what they should be doing in
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: their day to day lives, the more successful you'll be.
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: Those peasant hunters who walk the fence lines and never
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: wait into the thick cover where the pressure birds are
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: not only most likely to be found, but also most
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: likely to flush within shotgun range. They'll tell you that
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: the bird numbers are okay, but they are really really jumpy.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: They'll have a view of the roosters and the rooster's
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: world that fits their style, but it's a false read.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: The dude sitting on his stand in September trying to
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: grunt or snort weeze in one hundred and ten inch
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: buck that won't go for it. He'll tell you that
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: that buck isn't a fighter where the bucks aren't really
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: going yet, with no more thought than that, the whole
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: thing will be dismissed with a most likely false declaration
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: on dear temperament, you know, just done and done. That's
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: one way to look at it, but it doesn't teach
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: you anything. Sure, maybe that buck is a natural pacifist
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: and a loner, but what are the odds you think
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: in nature if you don't get the chance to win
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: a fight and garner some better resources that you don't
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: take it? Do you personally ever turn down a raise
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: or a good career opportunity. I think what I really
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: want to say with all of this is that you
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: have to condition yourself to think about this differently from
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: your competition, because then you can make better decisions. Most
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: hunters are going to approach deer in turkeys and pheasants
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: and whatever very similar to one another, just like most
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: fishermen will do the same kind of thing. But the
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: folks who are successful don't. And if those folks are
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: successful on hunting land that is similar to yours, you
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: can bet they think about it differently. They solve for
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: something that most hunters don't solve for, and that often
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: is as simple as where the deer go when the
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: pressure is heavy. That's it a lot of times, and
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: it is a different game than figuring out where they
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: might like to feed or bed or grab a drink
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: late in the morning. Although all that stuff is good
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: info to have, and you can have it and more.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: But if you're not thinking about what they do do
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: in their day to day lives year round, you're probably
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: not going to get as close as you need to.
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: This is one of the reasons I preach the message
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: of going hunting over not so often, because the idea
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: that not hunting will make the deer easier to hunt
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: doesn't jive with the idea that going into the woods
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: will make you a better hunter. What's more in your
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: control how the deer react to pressure, or how you
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: can react to pressure deer. What's more in your control
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: helping yourself undoubtedly level up by spending more time in
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: the woods hunting whatever and scouting for whatever, than staying
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: away and hoping your absence makes the bucks a little dumber. Look,
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: there's some nuance here, but the game being played is
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: mostly one against ourselves because we think we know the
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: deer well enough. We don't and we never really will.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: But we also really never will if we don't think
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: about them in a better way and then get out
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: there and use that thinking to not only influence our actions,
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: but also keep us motivated to learn and grow as hunters.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: I don't know if there's a better way to get
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: better than that, my friends, it's that important.
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: That's it for this week. I'm Tony Peterson.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: This has been the Wire to Hunt Foundation's podcast. I
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: know you listen to this podcast, so I know you
• 16:12
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• 16:14
  Speaker 2: that's going to blow your mind and you haven't listened
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: to it yet, go check out Jordan Siller's Blood Trails
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: podcast here on the mediater network. He does such a
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: good job with that podcast, is so cool. Uh.
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: Check that out.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: Go to the medeater dot com and not only will
• 16:29
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• 16:32
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• 16:36
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• 16:39
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