Latest / What Tha Group Chat Say / Don't Sit in Dysfunction

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Don't Sit in Dysfunction · What Tha Group Chat Say

• 0:00
  Vonnie: Welcome to What The Group Chat Say, the podcast where the group chat finally got a mic.
• 0:05
  We're three friends in our 40s talking about life, friendships, relationships, and everything we didn't see coming in this decade.
• 0:13
  I'm Vonnie, here with Keya and Drea, and on today's episode
• 0:18
  This is one of those episodes where offline meets online.
• 0:22
  So I shared a clip with my friends, and we had a lot to say about it, so I thought we should record this
• 0:30
  drea: people listening, please understand that everybody has their choice of their religion, to be religious, their choice not to be, their choice to be spiritual, and we are not here to bash anybody's personal belief or their, um, morals.
• 0:50
  It is to agree to disagree at times, and that does not mean that anybody's religion is better than anybody else's.
• 0:58
  I just had to say that because I know how people can take religion, good or bad.
• 1:03
  Keya: I wasn't even talking about that portion part of it.
• 1:06
  I thought we was gonna talk about all the BS I went through because of... But yes,
• 1:12
  drea: that's still
• 1:12
  Keya: Yeah.
• 1:13
  drea: still part of it
• 1:14
  Keya: Yeah, true.
• 1:15
  drea: I struggled.
• 1:16
  Keya: True.
• 1:17
  drea: as your friend.
• 1:17
  I
• 1:18
  Keya: You sure did.
• 1:19
  You sure did.
• 1:20
  drea: sent us earlier was, was, um,
• 1:24
  Keya: Spot on.
• 1:25
  drea: It triggered me because I started thinking,
• 1:28
  Keya: Spot on.
• 1:30
  Yep.
• 1:31
  drea: religion beliefs, and then talking to you as your friend.
• 1:34
  So for me,
• 1:36
  Keya: Yep.
• 1:36
  drea: um, that's the first thing that came to my, my mind, is the conversations we
• 1:41
  Keya: that...
• 1:41
  drea: and I'll never forget that day in that hotel room with all them ladies, girl.
• 1:46
  I ain't never
• 1:46
  Keya: Listen.
• 1:48
  drea: me, but I was like, "If I don't go to sleep or close my eyes..."
• 1:52
  Keya: Listen, and I knew when I watched it too, I said, "This is exactly how Drea felt when talking about all the..." 'Cause, you know, the cr- it's so crazy because the amount of just sit there, just sit there, just sit there and pray.
• 2:12
  While although I was praying, but to sit in it is crazy 'cause the amount of women that have been, I, I guess if it's a podcast, we don't want it to get it taken down, unalived because of the just sit there and pray is crazy.
• 2:34
  Like,
• 2:35
  drea: But there's a lot of
• 2:36
  Keya: it's so crazy
• 2:37
  drea: pray on it and I'm gonna get everything I need.
• 2:39
  I'm gonna pray on it and it's gonna fix So
• 2:43
  Keya: And I...
• 2:44
  drea: I see why people do it because I've met so many people in my lifetime who are like,
• 2:48
  Keya: Yeah.
• 2:49
  drea: gonna pray on it and God'll fix it." I'll be like, "But you ain't got your ass up to do nothing." Like,
• 2:54
  Keya: and see,
• 2:55
  drea: there's gotta be some action with that prayer.
• 2:57
  Keya: it definitely... And that's why I said, like I 100% believe in prayer and know that the Lord works, but to sit there?
• 3:07
  Baby, listen, I'd have been in jail.
• 3:09
  So I... Nah.
• 3:11
  drea: were kinda sitting there.
• 3:13
  I think you were really
• 3:14
  Keya: only 'cause...
• 3:15
  drea: I feel like, you know, like that, I don't
• 3:18
  Vonnie: All right, pause.
• 3:19
  I'm breaking in.
• 3:21
  Let's go ahead and play the clip that triggered all of this conversation
• 3:27
  This is from TikTok, and it is @navigatingnatasha
• 3:33
  No one can give terrible marriage advice like a Christian woman who's been married for 20 years and drug through the mud.
• 3:39
  I'm talking to you, Erica Campbell, because why else would you get your yellow ass in that pulpit telling women, "Why would he buy the cow if he getting the milk for free?" From my understanding, your husband bought the cow, and he's still getting free milk from other cows.
• 3:54
  So what the fuck are you talking about?
• 3:56
  Where do you have room to tell other women how to behave in a marriage when all you know how to do is be a rug?
• 4:05
  Tell me quickly.
• 4:07
  Instead of telling women how to endure bullshit, we should be teaching them how to identify green flags, character, morals, integrity, how to identify a man who loves and respects them.
• 4:19
  Instead, it's birds like you telling them that you gotta do it God's way.
• 4:24
  From my understanding, you did it God's way, and you're still being drug through the mud.
• 4:30
  You're still being drug through the mud.
• 4:33
  Christian married women give the worst marriage advice.
• 4:36
  It's dangerous.
• 4:38
  It's dangerous for you to be giving advice when you are not the r- when you, when you're not even in a position to be giving advice.
• 4:46
  Your husband doesn't respect you.
• 4:48
  So why should I be listening to your advice as a single woman?
• 4:52
  I don't want your story 20 years from now.
• 4:56
  Y'all-- Married women should be listening to single women a lot more.
• 4:59
  That's it.
• 4:59
  That's all.
• 5:09
  Keya: So Drea, in the, um, in the sentence that you just said about you felt like I was just sitting, there was a point where it was just like, okay, um- It wasn't physical abuse, and it's like I could just move out of the room.
• 5:32
  And at that point, there, I, the, no housing, any of the offers on the houses, like, that I had put in on were going through.
• 5:42
  So it ain't like I had a choice per se.
• 5:46
  drea: No, I know.
• 5:47
  I remember that.
• 5:49
  Keya: So
• 5:50
  drea: just gonna up and leave.
• 5:51
  I feel you
• 5:52
  Keya: hell no.
• 5:53
  Not, not with my money on the line and my child in college, girl.
• 5:57
  Listen.
• 5:59
  drea: saying.
• 6:00
  Keya: but yeah, it was a point where it was just like, "Okay, I can deal with this portion. Like, he's just angry. Um, so I'll just move out of the room." And that in itself was crazy 'cause like how the hell do you move out of a room that y'all share together?
• 6:18
  But the amount of... Yeah, all the time.
• 6:23
  So I found out as I was going through that.
• 6:25
  drea: That is just so not un-normal.
• 6:28
  Keya: So not un-normal.
• 6:30
  drea: Can
• 6:34
  Keya: of advice that I got, like, in the, um, clip that Vonnie sent was, "Just sit there. Just sit there." Like, sit there and do wh- Okay, I'm praying, but do what?
• 6:48
  Still allow my mental to be in the toilet, like, feel worthless, feel... So I think that is so dangerous because, yes, you can read that the Lord said he hates divorce except for in the case of, um, adultery.
• 7:09
  drea: I stop you
• 7:10
  Keya: Cool, but the... Uh-huh.
• 7:12
  drea: Okay, 'cause I hear you, and I know where you're going 'cause we had this conversation.
• 7:16
  Um, but there was a point, and when I'm saying sitting there, I'm not saying sitting there 'cause you're waiting on stuff to change so you can move and, you know, part, financial part.
• 7:29
  But it's
• 7:29
  Keya: Yeah.
• 7:30
  And
• 7:34
  drea: Lord said that, the Lord said this, and you were so adamant "No, I can't just leave.
• 7:40
  No, I can't just do that.
• 7:41
  No." Like you were, "Because the Bible says, the Bible says, the Bible says." And that is where, remember, I kept questioning, like, I'm still lost 'cause, like, I feel like your God is showing you it's time to up and go.
• 7:56
  But you, I feel like having your church friends and some of their thought process and input and what you thought that people from your church were gonna say- Um, had a big influence on even your decision to
• 8:10
  Keya: count
• 8:11
  drea: go forward with, a divorce and stuff like that.
• 8:15
  even moving, you know?
• 8:16
  I know moving, that's a whole point, you did that on your own.
• 8:20
  But I'm just saying, like, that I, I was... When I was looking at sitting, I wasn't so much looking at the cheating part, I was just thinking, like, as a whole, like, how we sit.
• 8:28
  'Cause sometimes we have to sit and really think to make sure we need to make that, that's the decision we wanna make.
• 8:35
  You know what I'm saying?
• 8:36
  Keya: Oh, yeah.
• 8:37
  Ab- absolutely, and I, I get that, but that's... And I think, um, like you said, like, when I was in the midst of it and going through it, um, when we would talk about it, it was, um, yes, I could get all aspects and everybody's point of view, um, and the people in the class that I would talk to, but, um, it was like what I was trying to get you to see then too was, like, none of it was ever based on them.
• 9:08
  Everything was based on what I'm reading in the Bible for myself.
• 9:14
  And so when I was sitting, it was with the intent of, "Okay, God, I'm here.
• 9:23
  You see what's happening.
• 9:25
  I'm here, though.
• 9:27
  You see how this is affecting me.
• 9:32
  You see this." So, like, the sitting never, um, had anything to do with them, like, like I told you back then.
• 9:43
  drea: feel was almost a hinder at times.
• 9:46
  Keya: Right.
• 9:46
  And see, and that's the thing too, like, when you be like the religion... A- and that's the thing, I don't subscribe to a religion.
• 9:53
  Do I follow what's in the Bible?
• 9:55
  Yes.
• 9:55
  drea: But everybody's interpretation to the Bible is different.
• 9:58
  And so, like, I hear what you're saying, right?
• 10:01
  But as your friend in that moment, and, like, there's no judgment, right?
• 10:05
  'Cause I love you and I had your back through the whole thing.
• 10:08
  But I sit there and I started talking to people who were pastors, people who have P- I literally, it...
• 10:15
  When I tell you so that I could understand that situation and your belief process, talked to a lot of people, and I talked to people that have PhDs in religion, people who are pastors, people who, um, are affilia- you know, all part of the church, who have a strong religious belief in.
• 10:34
  I talked to people of all different religions, right?
• 10:39
  Keya: Right
• 10:42
  drea: your, your, um, stance on, "But the Bible says this." so I had to, friend, understand where you're coming from, which I do now even when you're explaining it again.
• 10:58
  I understand where you're coming from.
• 11:00
  But I kinda want you to see- Do you understand sometimes when it comes to those kind of things that you read certain things, sometimes it really is about interpretation of when you can move forward or what's happening?
• 11:15
  Because I'm a strong believer that if you believe in God and you're praying for something and you're asking for guidance, if something keeps happening over and over again, that's him showing you, "Make your choice. You either gonna keep dealing with this or are you gonna move forward? But I'm showing you it's not getting better."
• 11:34
  Keya: Oh, absolutely.
• 11:35
  Like I, and I don't think that, um, when I was sitting and praying, that's the thing.
• 11:44
  Like I, I know as my friend sitting there and watching that, like, it was like, "Why isn't she?" It was like, because for me, I was praying for very specific things, like very specific.
• 11:58
  And, um, that day that you and I were sitting in the restaurant, where were we going?
• 12:04
  To a concert that we ended up seeing him at anyway?
• 12:07
  drea: Oh my
• 12:08
  Keya: was it a comedy show?
• 12:09
  drea: Yes.
• 12:10
  Keya: Yes.
• 12:11
  And so I...
• 12:12
  drea: many times we ran into him when we were doing stuff
• 12:15
  Keya: many, so many times in the beginning.
• 12:18
  And so like in that moment, you know, I was praying for something so very specific and, um, when you're like, oh, the interpretation of the Bible is, you know, different or that, like I 100% just read on the line, this is what it says, and then do we know that the Lord speaks, um, in, um, what's the daggone word that I'm looking for?
• 12:49
  Um, the Lord speaks in, in ways that like He, He will relate something to something else.
• 12:59
  So He'll use examples or different things like metaphors.
• 13:06
  Yes.
• 13:06
  So He, um, the Lord will speak, uh, g- right, d- definitely perimenopause.
• 13:17
  So you know what I'm saying?
• 13:18
  Like, you know, am I like, "Oh my God, the Lord said no."
• 13:22
  Like, I can definitely pick up on that 'cause we have reasoning, you know?
• 13:29
  So whereas it's like, you know what I'm saying, um, when I was like, "Nah, I'm not, I'm not... I, I just can't, I can't make this move," it's because I prayed for this one thing, that happened, and then a- also a part of that prayer was X, Y, and Z.
• 13:48
  So that was a part of me waiting.
• 13:50
  And just like the first thing happened, X, Y, and Z happened, and that's why everything opened up and I was, you know, I'm like, "Okay, so we moving and shaking here." Um, and then when it came to, "Okay, now, now that I'm, I'm here and I'm out of that, what do I do with the marriage?"
• 14:16
  Like, is this divorce going to be something that, um, will, uh, potentially be frowned upon in God's eyes, something that could get me in the lake of fire if I'm not, you know what I'm saying, if I'm not careful.
• 14:38
  So that was the rest of the peace for me.
• 14:41
  So, like, after the, the prayer and the waiting for the rest of my answers and my house, then...
• 14:51
  drea: that some of your decision also fell upon that this would be another failed marriage, or was that never even in your thought process?
• 14:59
  S-
• 15:00
  Keya: Do you know, thinking about it, um, in hindsight, it was like, "Damn, it's another failed marriage," but when I was going through it, that, that was not a part of like, "Oh my God, I can't get divorced." That absolutely was not.
• 15:18
  Like, I can 100% say the only thing that I thought about was, "Damn," like, "am I gonna be upsetting the Lord?"
• 15:27
  drea: so is it fair
• 15:28
  Keya: ugh.
• 15:29
  S-
• 15:29
  drea: say that let's say you didn't have the Lord in your life, you have left sooner than you would did?
• 15:36
  Keya: Uh, no, 'cause I... At the end of all of it, I had to wait on the house.
• 15:40
  Like, I was literally in between
• 15:42
  drea: I'm saying before it even got to that,
• 15:44
  Vonnie: Yeah.
• 15:49
  drea: like, before it was even a possible thought of, um, divorce or when you guys started having marital problems?
• 15:59
  was there times that you were like, "Um, I'm kind of over this," but you just kept trying, of it might have been because of your religion versus don't wanna fail marriage.
• 16:09
  That's what I'm wondering, like if, if religion wasn't involved.
• 16:12
  'Cause we already know financial.
• 16:13
  Any time we all have to make moves, like you gotta be strategic about it.
• 16:16
  Like we can't-
• 16:17
  Keya: It was strategic, very.
• 16:19
  drea: home to.
• 16:19
  You know what I'm saying?
• 16:20
  So
• 16:21
  Keya: Right.
• 16:22
  Yeah, definitely did not.
• 16:24
  drea: aspect, like I'm saying far as like leaving prior to more willing to leave quicker.
• 16:34
  Keya: Um, I think I've... It's gonna sound terrible.
• 16:39
  I think I would've found a side piece quicker.
• 16:44
  Like I-- would I have slept with them?
• 16:46
  Probably not.
• 16:47
  drea: gotcha.
• 16:49
  Keya: somebody that
• 16:51
  drea: fill that
• 16:55
  Keya: loved him, like I loved him down.
• 16:59
  So I would've done that first because honestly, I just did not...
• 17:06
  Like this was supposed to be it.
• 17:09
  Like I've loved that man since way back when.
• 17:16
  So it would've been, "Okay, well, until he get it together, like I'll, I'll be over here just being happy in this aspect and going back to him being happy in that aspect."
• 17:29
  Vonnie: I was
• 17:29
  Keya: So I don't...
• 17:31
  Vonnie: even with your first relationship, you didn't leave as soon as it got bad then either,
• 17:35
  Keya: No.
• 17:36
  Mm-mm.
• 17:37
  And that's why it's like I just, it, I wouldn't have been like, "Oh, I'm, I'm up." Like it'd just, I'd have found something to fill that void.
• 17:48
  Um, and then it'd been like, "Okay, cool. So it's not gonna work?" So I think in either case, it would've, I would've taken the same route.
• 18:01
  Like it j- well, except for finding somebody to have fun with on the side.
• 18:08
  But...
• 18:09
  Vonnie: I think we kind of, um, you know, a little bit in last episode talked about this angle of it, I wanted to get back
• 18:18
  to.
• 18:19
  When you were kind of talking about, I guess in the beginning, when you were talking about sitting down with Drea and then Drea's talking about all these ladies.
• 18:29
  Like, what were you talking about then?
• 18:31
  Like, not maybe specific to your relationship, but more about journey.
• 18:39
  drea: Oh,
• 18:40
  Keya: Oh
• 18:40
  drea: kind of backpedal.
• 18:42
  It was, um... And please anyone listening from her congregation, this is nothing against you, and I don't have no problems.
• 18:50
  Um, was Keya's birthday, and um, me and Keya, I had told Keya that I would stay at the hotel with her, and her other two besties came as well, but I was the only one staying at the hotel with her And she had invited her friends from her, um, congregation, her church.
• 19:12
  And I'd only been around some of them a few times.
• 19:15
  And, um, but after we went to the first place, I think it was dinner or a, I don't know, a bar or something, people wanted to go somewhere else, so we were like, "Okay, well let's stop by the room first or something." But that's when her two besties kinda dipped out too.
• 19:30
  Like, I was like, "Hold on." And then when we went back to the room, thinking it's gonna be us, and here we are with her friends from her congregation.
• 19:42
  And that was... Does, does that make sense?
• 19:46
  Like, so that's where we kinda started off in that conversation, right, Keya?
• 19:50
  Is that where we started?
• 19:52
  Keya: Yeah.
• 19:52
  drea: where we were like,
• 19:53
  Keya: Yeah.
• 19:54
  drea: hotel room.
• 19:55
  Yeah.
• 19:56
  Keya: Yeah, and that, and that was the part with,
• 19:59
  drea: And this is before
• 20:00
  Keya: I think where you had... Right, and I think that was the part where you had met them, but you and I had gone to that comedy show and sat down, uh, um, at that restaurant before my birthday.
• 20:14
  drea: Oh yeah,
• 20:14
  Keya: Remember?
• 20:15
  drea: had
• 20:15
  Keya: So the restaurant, yeah.
• 20:17
  drea: Yeah, I had a
• 20:18
  Keya: So the restaurant happened,
• 20:20
  drea: Yes.
• 20:21
  Yes.
• 20:22
  Keya: and so I think that's what Vonnie was asking.
• 20:24
  So in, in that conversation, she was asking like, "Keya, it's not just physical abuse.
• 20:33
  Do you understand, like, you're being abused?" And I was like, "I'm not being abused in the sense of that," 'cause at, you know, she has her, um, she has her master's in, in all of this work.
• 20:51
  So in her estimation, here is my friend going through all this, and these are all the signs.
• 20:59
  So we were talking about that and like, and I'm just like, "No, it's not..." It, like on, as crazy as it seems, it's like, okay, all your training says this, and I'm sitting up here telling you like, "No, I'm not indoctrinated into any of that.
• 21:16
  These are-- This is my belief system outside of anybody else.
• 21:24
  Like, this is what I believe, so no, I'm going to see it through at this, this, and that."
• 21:30
  So a- as my friend watching me, uh, what, I was losing weight, everything.
• 21:37
  drea: Yeah, it
• 21:37
  Keya: her...
• 21:38
  drea: And,
• 21:38
  Keya: Ooh.
• 21:39
  drea: just to kinda go back real quick, like Shavonne, when we were having this conversation and she was saying, "No, no, no," then that's when I hit her with, "Well, there is a cycle of abuse, and there's
• 21:50
  Keya: Yes, you did.
• 21:51
  drea: and there's a one, like power and control, and people can use finances and religion to control and dictate what somebody does." And so that's where I needed clarification Because for one, we already knew he got on a high horse about money once, you know what I'm saying?
• 22:10
  So let's just
• 22:11
  Keya: Yep.
• 22:12
  drea: that.
• 22:14
  when she kept throwing her religion at me, it was really alarming because what I was trying to figure out is,
• 22:21
  Keya: He did.
• 22:25
  drea: Bible, but some of this shit of his actions, and is he saying these things to you, and are you understanding, like, your stance?
• 22:33
  So she had to explain to me what she understood of her stance of the Bible and following a man and all of those things.
• 22:41
  And so that's where the conversation had to really get understood, because I felt like he was trying to Bible-thump her to get her to feel bad for her, for whatever he feels she did wrong, and she was constantly having to, like, prove herself.
• 23:00
  And so I was trying to make sure that she wasn't being whooped up from the, the Bible and the religion, and that she had her own belief system from what she reads, if that makes sense, Shavonne.
• 23:13
  'Cause I was like, um,
• 23:16
  Keya: Oh, baby, it's... When I tell you, like, the, the way... Like, being on the other side of it and sitting down now, like, the way I appreciated Drea and the other two besties, like, in this whole situation, because it was like at every point they was like, "Yo, chick, where's, where your mind at?" Like, "Where is your mi- What...
• 23:42
  Explain to us." And so until I let them know like, "Nah, y'all, like, I'm cool.
• 23:48
  I, I'm just literally going through the steps, waiting on what I prayed for." 'Cause Drea, when I tell you she was giving it to me hard, like, if you would've read our faces in that restaurant, I'm sure people would've been like, "Oh my God," like, "Are they okay?"
• 24:05
  drea: still gonna be friends?
• 24:06
  Like, I
• 24:06
  Keya: friends,
• 24:07
  drea: like we, we may not make it because it was very intense.
• 24:13
  Very
• 24:14
  Keya: was very intense.
• 24:15
  And we still went on that night and had a great night.
• 24:18
  Like, and I love Drea down for real because there was no point where she let a day go by that she wasn't checking on my mental health.
• 24:32
  Like, she was just like, "I get what you believe. I hear you. I get what you say is in the Bible, but are you seeing this?"
• 24:41
  And I'm like, "Yes, friend, I'm seeing that.
• 24:43
  I know, and no, I'm not, like, I, I'm not falling into stupid territory." 'Cause, um, there was a point where Homie was like, "I'm Jesus of this house." What?
• 24:58
  Like, yo, I'm gonna need you to just slow your roll.
• 25:05
  But at that point, like all the things that he had tried, um, did not work.
• 25:14
  Um, and so I think at this thing it, at this point it was just throw anything against the wall to see if it sticks, and Drea was just like, "Mm, nah, nah.
• 25:28
  N- like, Key, are you okay?" But there was a point that it came to in trying to save the marriage, like one of the besties was like, "Well, you know, you..." 'Cause he had asked for, um, "Your, your friends are hoes, and they're this, and they're the reason why you did this" and I was like, "How are you gonna blame them for a choice that I made?"
• 25:56
  Um, and he asked that I stop talking to them.
• 26:00
  So that was the biggest like the biggest aw, hell nah.
• 26:05
  drea: Shavonne, did
• 26:06
  Keya: was finna roll up.
• 26:08
  drea: Did you know that,
• 26:09
  Vonnie: Yeah.
• 26:10
  Yeah
• 26:11
  Keya: Okay, so Drea was finna roll up.
• 26:14
  The two... It,
• 26:16
  drea: this is deme-
• 26:16
  Keya: it...
• 26:17
  drea: right here.
• 26:17
  He's trying to isolate her
• 26:18
  Keya: she did.
• 26:19
  Vonnie: like the
• 26:23
  drea: just cried.
• 26:24
  Like, I immediately cried 'cause I was like, "This is not okay. but I gotta respect it, but this..." Then I was like, "Okay, I got her mama's number, her brother's number. I got her address," you know?
• 26:34
  And then I called her bestie, and I cried with her on the phone.
• 26:38
  And she was like, "Okay, I'ma call her brother." And I was just like, "Okay, but we have their numbers.
• 26:43
  Okay, let's just get through this," like, you know?
• 26:45
  But we had to respect her decision, but it w- I was ready.
• 26:49
  When I- I was ready.
• 26:50
  Like, I
• 26:51
  Keya: She... was ready.
• 26:53
  drea: "When you say come, I'm coming
• 26:56
  Keya: It's kind of like literally it was like, oh my God.
• 27:00
  So ooh, I didn't think I was gonna tear up on that part.
• 27:06
  Okay, hold on.
• 27:09
  Oh, God.
• 27:10
  Okay.
• 27:11
  That was unexpected.
• 27:13
  drea: Okay, it's a part of
• 27:14
  Keya: So girl, listen.
• 27:17
  Oh, God.
• 27:19
  Um, so at that point it was like okay, um, and one of the besties was just like, "You know, it was your screw up, so if this is his ask, it's not gonna be forever.
• 27:31
  Just, you know, do it to s- if you wanna save your marriage, do this, do this." So I was like, "Okay." Now mind you, it didn't come okay at the first ask.
• 27:41
  We argued for months
• 27:45
  drea: Yes, it, it was
• 27:46
  Keya: this.
• 27:46
  Months.
• 27:47
  drea: it may
• 27:48
  Keya: It... Yeah Yes, and so I...
• 27:53
  drea: it became,
• 27:53
  Keya: we were arguing, and then it was just like, "Okay, if this is what he's asking and you wanna save your marriage, like, no outside sources, you and him, this, that, and the third.
• 28:03
  Like, get it, and y'all get that thing together.
• 28:07
  Come back to us.
• 28:08
  You know going anywhere." I was like, "Okay." So like very last resort, it was, "Okay, fine.
• 28:16
  I'm giving you what you asked.
• 28:19
  Now what are we gonna do?" And then it was, "I didn't ask you to do that shit." I- "You didn't what?
• 28:28
  Like, are you serious?"
• 28:30
  And so it was, "I don't want that." It wasn't... Yes.
• 28:39
  Vonnie: just keep moving
• 28:40
  Keya: It's kept, it kept moving.
• 28:43
  And so then I was like, "Okay, well, I've already done it.
• 28:48
  This is what you said you wanted.
• 28:50
  This is what you said was gonna take to fix the marriage.
• 28:53
  It's done." And then it was, "That ain't what I asked you for.
• 28:56
  You..." Or, "I asked you for that, and you didn't do it, so you showed me you're not, um, you're not an obedient wife," or some BS that he said.
• 29:06
  And, and at that time, I was like, "Okay, I'ma give him..." I think it was, like, a week, maybe two, but I was like, "Okay, he won't change his mind, baby.
• 29:17
  Listen, the way I'm about to hit up my girls and be like, 'So, right, at this point, um, for real, I'm on a hunt for a house.'" Um, and then he kept saying this or saying that or moving this, and, "I never told you to do that.
• 29:35
  Call them itches.
• 29:36
  Call them..." It like, "Oh, okay.
• 29:40
  Right.
• 29:40
  So you're angry.
• 29:42
  I'm gonna let you roll with this.
• 29:44
  I'ma let you roll with it.
• 29:45
  I'ma let you roll with it.
• 29:46
  Let's go, let's go, let's go."
• 29:47
  Vonnie: I think that what I wanted to ask about religion, though, was in
• 29:52
  how it's not a religion that you follow, you just follow the Bible, right?
• 29:58
  why do we think that the Bible doesn't say anything about, you know, some of the things that happen to women within a marriage that would lead to divorce?
• 30:08
  Kind of like this, right?
• 30:09
  It's like, only if you're cheated on or... Do you know what I mean?
• 30:15
  Like, what is it about... It's not abuse.
• 30:19
  It's not financial abuse.
• 30:20
  Like, these things don't come up.
• 30:22
  So why not do we think that it's addressed in the Bible for it to be clearer to women that it's okay to leave for some of these things?
• 30:31
  Like, you shouldn't sit around and, and try to work through these things Tha dress was ta
• 30:39
  Keya: friend.
• 30:40
  Sorry.
• 30:42
  drea: lot of people give up on religion now too.
• 30:44
  So I'll let Keya answer 'cause you know
• 30:49
  don't got the answer for the religion
• 30:51
  Keya: Um, so I would say in the Bible, um, and what I found going through this, right?
• 30:58
  So that in the Bible it states, you know what I'm saying, "For the hardness of your hearts there was divorce, but in the beginning that it wasn't so," is what it says in the Bible.
• 31:15
  So they were getting divorced.
• 31:18
  Um, the specific reasons, like back then, I guess it wasn't really talked about, it was just, um, Moses said, "Hey," he went up there and talked to the Lord and was like, "And because of the hardness of you, of your heart, you brothers up, up here," like, you know what I'm saying?
• 31:34
  "Just you don't like women. You don't like this woman for whatever reason. Go ahead and send her out your house." So and I would say that the hardness of their heart is the fact that he's being mentally abusive, he's being just a jackass in general.
• 31:54
  And it was like, "Before I let you mistreat these women anymore, go ahead and give her a written bill of divorcement and go out of your house."
• 32:04
  But the Lord said, "In the beginning, it wasn't so," 'cause y'all weren't acting like this.
• 32:10
  Y'all weren't being A-holes, y'all weren't doing all these things.
• 32:14
  So I think if people miss that part, they stay 100% on, "No, I can't divorce.
• 32:24
  No, I can't divorce.
• 32:25
  No, I can't divorce.
• 32:26
  No, I can't divorce." Um, and even now being on, um, the end of it about reading, like infidelity, so it's like- Being an infidel means also that you're not taking care of your family.
• 32:47
  So looking at that like, "Okay, sis, like, you free to leave." And it took me sitting down and studying the Bible and doing all these things where it was like, "Oh, yeah, like, I, I pray that I'm good, but I feel like I am." So to answer your question, I think it's just a matter of reading, reading more and getting a understanding of, like, the words.
• 33:19
  So I did a lot of just like, okay, looking up this or looking up that.
• 33:25
  So that helped me make an informed choice.
• 33:29
  And I think if you just stop at what you've been told and not read for yourself, that's what stops a lot of women.
• 33:40
  And, um, if they just go back to the beginning of, in the beginning, Moses said, "For the hardness of your hearts, yeah, go ahead and get a divorce," because they were just mistreating women.
• 33:58
  And so if women don't read that, then they get stuck in a cycle like that clip that you sent, and they, they get unalived because while I'm sitting here waiting for an answer, I must take this abuse, and the Lord never told you that.
• 34:22
  drea: Right,
• 34:22
  Keya: The Lord never told you that
• 34:24
  drea: a good point of that is I remember, um, I was facilitating a group and, um, after this situation, I had to do disclaimers in my group, like, before it started.
• 34:35
  But I had a lady who was in my group, um, and my group was about anger management, coping skills, ways to, um, control, know, your feelings, understand your emotions, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 34:49
  Okay?
• 34:50
  But I had this lady who was sitting in my group, and she started sharing, like, why she's in the group, what she's working on, she started talking about her marriage, and she was talking about her church and her pastor.
• 35:02
  And her husband had been verbally abusing her.
• 35:06
  She didn't even really feel safe.
• 35:08
  She... He was taking her money.
• 35:09
  Her income tax was coming soon.
• 35:11
  Like, there was all these different things that was going on in this marriage, and she kept telling me, "Well, I can't leave.
• 35:17
  My pastor said, my pastor said," and she just kept saying over, "And my pastor said that I can't just get divorced, and my pastor said that I should try to, you know, um, I should still give him half of my income tax."
• 35:29
  And, and, and I was like, in my head, I'm like, "Are you fucking kidding me right now?" Right?
• 35:34
  But I had to, like, understand where she was coming from, but she kept saying her pastor told her she couldn't get divorced.
• 35:39
  And I said, "Okay, well, is he coming to, um, is he coming to therapy with you, with your pastor? Is he coming with you to talk?"
• 35:46
  And she's like, "No." And I'm like, "Okay." So then she started saying all the different things that kept happening and the fear she has, you know, whatever, and my job was to kinda help her identify.
• 35:55
  I said to her, "I don't know what God that you pray to or your pastor, I always thought that God isn't gonna put you in a situation that's gonna make you be harmed and that He's gonna keep showing you that you need to leave, and maybe this is why." Oh, my gosh.
• 36:13
  I had her so mad the next week I got a call from the owner, and she was like, "Girl, you had her so mad.
• 36:20
  She was angry.
• 36:21
  She came in here just going off about you." You know, and I was like, "But I wasn't judging her.
• 36:26
  I was trying to understand and get her to see," because she kept throwing back what her pastor said and her religion. And I said, "And I felt like she was unsafe." And I said, "And then when she brought up her son," I said, "That's a whole 'nother ballgame. I'm a mandated reporter, so luckily she didn't say nothing I had to report," you know?
• 36:44
  And after that, that woman came up to me like three months later, and she said "I was so mad at you, but it made me really think. It made me really hear what you were saying." she was like, "I just kinda switched churches. I still have my belief," but she left him.
• 37:01
  So sometimes, you know, I felt like in
• 37:05
  Vonnie: Wow.
• 37:05
  drea: situation she was being misguided, but was constantly being financially and emotionally abused.
• 37:13
  You know what I mean?
• 37:15
  I just feel like people who believe in God, I don't feel they believe in God so they can keep being hurt.
• 37:21
  You know, things happen in the world, but you know what I'm saying?
• 37:24
  Vonnie: Yeah.
• 37:24
  And, and I know abuse is, you know, maybe something people understand is a reason to leave, but that's not the only reason to get divorced.
• 37:34
  Do you know what I mean?
• 37:34
  And I think validly so, you shouldn't with somebody if you guys are no longer getting along.
• 37:42
  Like, why are you still living in a house with somebody in that way?
• 37:45
  And you don't necessarily need to be abused.
• 37:48
  And, but why do we think... Or I just wonder why sometimes, though, when it does seem like Christian women or some Christian women think it's a badge of honor just to stay through you know?
• 38:03
  Like, don't know why that's seen as I'm more womanly or I'm wife.
• 38:09
  Like, should also want to serve yourself.
• 38:12
  You should also want to sure you're showing a good example for family, your children, to not want to replicate this, you know?
• 38:25
  So I just... You know, that's extreme, getting abused.
• 38:28
  Of course, I think everybody would agree, hopefully they get out of that.
• 38:31
  But just standard irreconcilable differences, I mean, you should be able to feel free to say, you know, while we're in this marriage, it's within the confines of our belief system, but if the marriage is no longer serving you for any reason, I just hate how it seems like you have to be stuck or shackled, you know?
• 38:53
  Keya: So they make you, yeah, they make you the martyr, and the crazy thing is, is like you said, like,
• 39:01
  Vonnie: Yeah, I think it goes back
• 39:02
  Keya: like the clip said, Christian women and men give the worst advice.
• 39:09
  Because like you said, it could not even be just abuse.
• 39:13
  It could literally be, "Dude, you're just being a a-hole." Like, what is up?
• 39:20
  And in that, like, the sit there and sit through it and take it and take it, and that's your badge of honor.
• 39:27
  No, like, the one thing I want people to, to know and to say, like... And I only paused and said that is because, like, I n- um, I want people to understand, I know what the Bible says, but I also want them to understand that the Bible says, "Submit yourselves one to another." So while you're submitting to him, he's submitting to you, and both of you are submitting to God.
• 39:54
  So if that's not happening Yo, the Lord says you can separate for a time and then be reconciled back together if you can get that thing together.
• 40:06
  So of course that's the best case, like, you know what I'm saying?
• 40:09
  Like, okay, like, we can work it out.
• 40:12
  But I shouldn't have to sit here to prove that I'm a Christian woman by homie going out there sleeping with this person or, you know what I'm saying?
• 40:25
  Or acting this way in the house, or doing this thing, or doing that thing, and I think so much so that we don't read for ourselves and we go with, "Well, so and so said," like Drea using, um, in her story about her group.
• 40:47
  It's always so and so said.
• 40:49
  Like, so they don't sit back and use their own judgment and their own common sense and their own, like, nah.
• 40:58
  Like, I...
• 41:00
  Vonnie: Drea said.
• 41:01
  Like, it's an interpretation.
• 41:03
  So if, like that lady's pastor interpreted it meaning you don't leave no matter what, and you read for yourself and you interpreted it meaning saying, "Okay, wait a minute, there's a change here." So I do have a... There is an avenue.
• 41:18
  Do you know what I mean?
• 41:18
  So it's, it's crazy how you will... He'll interpret it to mean whatever they want it to mean in that moment really
• 41:28
  Keya: And that's the one thing I, that's the one thing I really can say is there's a scripture for everything in the Bible.
• 41:36
  So the best advice that I got, um, was make sure you're reading for yourself.
• 41:44
  Make sure you're reading for yourself, because just like in that clip, in the clip that we're discussing, the amount of, "She was wrong.
• 41:53
  She need to sit there.
• 41:55
  She was wrong.
• 41:56
  She needs to, uh, she needs to do this." So because I was wrong, I need to sit through all this just to say that I'm sorry?
• 42:13
  Not that I've repented to the Lord, not that I've asked for forgiveness from the Lord, not... But I need to sit through X, Y, and Z for a man.
• 42:24
  Not God, man.
• 42:27
  And y'all don't hear what's going on behind closed doors.
• 42:31
  I, when I s- like, when you sent that clip, A, I thought about Drea because I knew she was gonna be so triggered about it, because we had this conversation, but B, because I was told the same mess from men- And women alike.
• 42:50
  And it was only when I had to like, "Yo, do y'all understand what y'all are saying?
• 42:58
  Y'all don't hear this shit the dude saying to me?
• 43:02
  Y'all don't see what's happening?
• 43:04
  Y'all... And you telling me to sit here and take it just for the sake to say, oh, I, I, I am obeying my husband?" Man, if y'all don't get the hell out my face with that bull.
• 43:19
  Like, I'm not finna go out here and jump in the ne-m- next man's bed, but I'm also not finna sit here and be mistreated just because y'all think I should.
• 43:31
  Bro, find y'all life.
• 43:34
  Find y'all life.
• 43:35
  I'm, I'm not doing that.
• 43:37
  I will do exactly what the Bible say.
• 43:39
  I will leave, and if at all possible be reconciled back to this man, I will follow that.
• 43:47
  But I am not going to sit in dysfunction.
• 43:50
  That's what I'm not gonna do.
• 43:51
  I don't care what y'all say.
• 43:53
  Vonnie: Well, we started with a TikTok and ended up in therapy.
• 43:56
  That's just like us.
• 43:59
  So let's sit and let this marinate for a week, and we will come back next week and finish up this topic
• 44:07
  All right.
• 44:07
  We're gonna take the group chat offline for now.
• 44:10
  If you laughed, related, or enjoyed the conversation, make sure you like, subscribe, leave a comment, and share this episode with some of your favorite people.
• 44:19
  Follow us on all socials, and we'll catch you on the next time on What The Group Chat Say.