Latest / Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald / Work Place Affairs, Jimmy Kimmel, Fat Shaming

Transcript

Work Place Affairs, Jimmy Kimmel, Fat Shaming · Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald

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• 0:31
  Speaker 2: Heather MacDonald has got the Juicy Scoop. When you're on
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: the road, when you're on the go, Juicy Scoop is
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: the show to know. She talks Hollywood tales for real life. Mr.
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: Saving Serial Data and Serial Sisters. You'll be addicted and
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: addicted fast to the number one tabloid real life podcast.
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  Speaker 2: Listen in, listen up. Woo woo. Heather MacDonald.
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  Speaker 1: Juicy Scoop.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. Going to go through
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: all the topics and then I have a great interview
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: that you're really going to love that has a lot
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: of juice in it. So let's get right into it. Guys,
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: I just have to talk about Brittany's latest post because
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: it's caused a lot of controversy. She did a quote
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: card on her Instagram that said, I found there was
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: only one way to look thin, hang out with fat people.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: Rodney Dangerfield, picture quotes. Now you're like, who the hell
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  Speaker 2: is that from the young people? He was a very
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  Speaker 2: funny comedian that actually didn't even really make it until
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  Speaker 2: he was in his late 50s. He was very self-deprecating,
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  Speaker 2: and he was very popular in the 80s. Okay, so
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  Speaker 2: already it's out of touch of a joke, but, you know,
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  Speaker 2: an original joke at the time. I had a friend
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  Speaker 2: who had a big, huge black comer, and she was single,
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  Speaker 2: and I'm like, why do you need such a big car?
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  Speaker 2: And she's like, Heather, you don't know how thin I
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  Speaker 2: look when I come out of it at the valet.
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  Speaker 2: So I get the idea. But she went on to then,
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  Speaker 2: under it, say this, which is just not good. Going on,
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  Speaker 2: she just repeats a lot of herself, which is the
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  Speaker 2: right to do, about the shit that she went through
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  Speaker 2: the last 13 years. I wish I could have chosen
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  Speaker 2: my nannies for my children. I also wish I could
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  Speaker 2: have chosen my dancers. I mean, if I had Christina
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  Speaker 2: Aguilera's dancers, I would have looked extremely small. Three dancing ladies, emojis.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, why not talk about it? because you're going
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  Speaker 2: to see why. Don't you think my confidence would have
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  Speaker 2: been a bit better if I could choose where I lived, ate,
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  Speaker 2: whom I called on the phone, dated, and who I
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  Speaker 2: was on stage with me? It's hard sometimes. Now I
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  Speaker 2: see how much of my womanhood was stripped. Okay, so
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: she goes on. Immediately, I wasn't surprised to see this
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: because I think, you know what? I think she's getting
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  Speaker 2: to a place a lot of women do. She's not
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: liking the way she looks right now. Listen, your body
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  Speaker 2: changes and when you're a teenager, when you go through puberty,
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: when you have kids, when you go after kids, I
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  Speaker 2: was probably the thinnest when I was working full time,
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: coming home at seven 45 at night, putting my kids
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  Speaker 2: into a bath and I would just skip dinner. I
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  Speaker 2: was like, Oh my God, I look pretty good. How
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: did I look better now? It all changes. So I
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  Speaker 2: think she wasn't feeling great about her that herself that day.
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  Speaker 2: And then in her mind, well, people are like, what
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  Speaker 2: the hell? Including Christina Aguilera was like, what the hell
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  Speaker 2: is happening? She unfollows her. She's pissed. And people bring
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  Speaker 2: up photos of Christina Aguilera and her dancers and her
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  Speaker 2: dancers were more curvy size dancers. Okay. And I don't,
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: but we don't body shame girl. This is very unpopular
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  Speaker 2: right now. So what she was saying was sort of factual,
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: but so she gets wind of it. that people aren't
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  Speaker 2: pleased with her. And then she does an apology and
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  Speaker 2: she didn't even get it. She's like, I'm not calling
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  Speaker 2: Christina fat. Like she's beautiful. She's my friend. Love you girl.
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  Speaker 2: We're like, no, you weren't calling her fat. You're calling
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  Speaker 2: her dancers fat. It's not good. Here's the thing. We
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  Speaker 2: can talk about Christina and Brittany, but the thing is
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  Speaker 2: Brittany is suffering and she needs therapy and she needs
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  Speaker 2: to get to a place where Um, she has other
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  Speaker 2: things going on in her life besides Instagram. That's my opinion.
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  Speaker 2: She's going to step, she doesn't have a publicist. She
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  Speaker 2: has no one controlling it. And she still didn't even
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  Speaker 2: really get what she should apologize over. So, um, but
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  Speaker 2: you know, I just want to say, Brittany, if you
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  Speaker 2: ever go on tour, do not be stealing Lizzo's dancers
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  Speaker 2: because they're very happy to go on tour with her.
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  Speaker 3: Okay.
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  Speaker 2: This was so sweet. You guys, um, I have been
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  Speaker 2: obsessed with the TikTok videos of, um, Parents showing their
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  Speaker 2: young black daughters and some of their sons and even
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  Speaker 2: older women. I saw someone show their like grandma and aunt.
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  Speaker 2: The opening trailer scene to The Little Mermaid, which is
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  Speaker 2: the new live action Little Mermaid starring Halle Bailey. Not
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  Speaker 2: Halle Berry, Halle Bailey. And she's a beautiful girl with
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  Speaker 2: an incredible voice. And it is so cute. So it's
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  Speaker 2: called A Blind Reaction. You can look it up. And
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  Speaker 2: little girls are usually familiar with Disney and with this show,
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  Speaker 2: so they're kind of like, what is this? And anyway,
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  Speaker 2: we were talking about this, and Annie goes, all right,
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  Speaker 2: how do these little girls don't know that, you know,
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  Speaker 2: that they've changed it to a black... You know, verbatim,
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  Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm sorry. I guess the four-year-olds weren't listening
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: to Juicy Scoop seven months ago when the news came out. Okay.
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  Speaker 2: But anyway, it is really sweet. And it really shows
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  Speaker 2: people that as, especially a little person, you know, people
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  Speaker 2: always have a problem with Disney because the stories are about, oh,
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  Speaker 2: I don't want my daughter to grow up thinking that
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  Speaker 2: she can marry a prince or it's so patriarchal. It's
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  Speaker 2: a fairy tale. And if you're a good parent, your
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  Speaker 2: child can enjoy fairy tales. And Little Mermaid is a
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  Speaker 2: fairy tale about a girl who is half fish, okay?
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  Speaker 2: So when there was a big problem with it going
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  Speaker 2: from a drawn girl who had red hair to now
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  Speaker 2: a live-action girl who is black, I mean, and people
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  Speaker 2: freaked out about it. It was so stupid because I'm like,
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  Speaker 2: I love when they remake classic stories. Like, don't break it.
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  Speaker 2: If there's a classic story that everyone loves, remake it
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  Speaker 2: every 10 years with different characters, characters, Well, not definitely
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  Speaker 2: characters because that wouldn't be a remake, but you could
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  Speaker 2: add a little, maybe a new character. You can modernize it.
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  Speaker 2: You can make it fun, and you can make it
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  Speaker 2: that the girl or the boy is from a different culture,
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  Speaker 2: and I think that's super fun. And then they showed
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  Speaker 2: a little white girl, and she was just as excited
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  Speaker 2: about watching The Little Mermaid. So it's really cute, and
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  Speaker 2: I'm sure it's making everybody really thrilled. Oh, and then
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  Speaker 2: I saw TikTok about a woman going, but Disney's going
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  Speaker 2: to make all this money And are they going to
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  Speaker 2: give the money to the black community afterwards? I'm like, what?
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  Speaker 2: This is a movie. And they're providing entertainment, providing you
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  Speaker 2: want to buy a ticket, or I'm sure you'll be
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  Speaker 2: able to stream it a month later on Disney +. So, like,
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  Speaker 2: why then do, like, yeah, the profits go. I don't know.
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  Speaker 2: I don't understand that. The point is, people are excited.
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  Speaker 2: It's really fun to watch this reaction. I think she
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  Speaker 2: has an absolutely gorgeous voice. I'm excited to see it. Um,
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: there are some people who are naturally born redheads that
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  Speaker 2: are marching the streets. And, um, so, Hey, why not
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: make beauty and the beast remake that one and make
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  Speaker 2: that girl a redhead? I don't know. As a brown haired,
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  Speaker 2: brown eyed girl who had a sister who was blonde
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  Speaker 2: haired and blue eyed. Yes. All the Disney characters, Cinderella, um,
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  Speaker 2: sleeping beauty. What was some of the other ones? Snow
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  Speaker 2: White was black hair. I couldn't relate to her. Also,
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  Speaker 2: I was not into like hanging out with seven old men. Okay.
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  Speaker 2: So I was never into that story. But I liked
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  Speaker 2: Beauty and the Beast because she was brown haired and
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  Speaker 2: I liked her yellow dress. But I'm like, I don't
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  Speaker 2: want to marry an animal. I don't care how rich
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  Speaker 2: you are. I'm not into it. So I was always
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  Speaker 2: looking for a princess I could relate to and I
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  Speaker 2: never really could. So I might relate to this little
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  Speaker 2: mermaid too, because I, um, love to swim. So I'm
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  Speaker 2: going to probably watch this one and really enjoy it.
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  Speaker 2: So it's very cool. Um, it's just, it's just so cute.
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  Speaker 2: Look it up. You'll, it'll make you happy. Okay. Let
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: me get into the Emmys. I watched the Emmys. I
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: didn't expect to watch them. I love that they came
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: on in LA early cause I that's so that was perfect. Um,
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  Speaker 2: And it moves quicker. It felt hipper. It was cool
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  Speaker 2: to see all these movie stars like Reese Witherspoon and
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: stuff because they're all basically on TV now doing these
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: limited series. And so Cheryl Lee Ralph won for Abbott Elementary,
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  Speaker 2: which is this show that got a lot of awards
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  Speaker 2: and about working in a public school, an underfunded public school.
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  Speaker 2: And it's a big hit. It's on ABC. Anyway, she
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  Speaker 2: won for Supporting Actress. And when she won, you know,
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  Speaker 2: she appeared to be like she was absolutely shell-shocked. It
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  Speaker 2: took her so long to walk up to the stage.
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  Speaker 2: And what's nice is they must have known what she
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  Speaker 2: was going to do and they knew everyone was going
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  Speaker 2: to do because then you could submit. You're like, these
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: are the people I want to thank in case I
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  Speaker 2: miss it or in case I want to sing a song.
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  Speaker 2: So she sang an original song that she wrote about
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  Speaker 2: how she's an endangered woman, but she's not going to
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: sing a victim song. And she has a really good voice.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: And it was like, wow, great. Um, later on, I
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  Speaker 2: was watching TikTok and I saw her two actual kids
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  Speaker 2: in the audience in the back being like mommy one.
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  Speaker 2: Now I hope they're their two actual kids and not
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  Speaker 2: just kids that want to be adopted by her. But
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  Speaker 2: she did mention she had two kids and this TikTok
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  Speaker 2: I believe was from their perspective and they were like
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  Speaker 2: so excited that their mom won and she thanked her
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  Speaker 2: kids and her husband and everybody in her life. And
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  Speaker 2: I just want to say if I win best podcast
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  Speaker 2: from a single female comedian host, because I do believe
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: in the next five years there will be an actual
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: kind of a big deal podcast awards. So I'm secreting it,
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: and I'm secreting what I'm going to win, and I'm
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: going to come up and sing probably an original song,
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: but let's just say I sang Somewhere Over the Rainbow
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: since that's what I sang when I was doing the
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: day in my sorority where we did a play, which
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: was Wizard of Oz and I was Dorothy. Anyway. I'm
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: going to warn my sons. I will be singing that
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: original song because if I just came out and did that,
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: instead of being like, oh my God, thank you to
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  Speaker 2: everyone that listened to my show. I just came out
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: and I was like.
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: Somewhere over the rainbow is Juicy Scoop. There's a podcast
• 11:08
  Speaker 4: to listen to that makes you feel like you might
• 11:12
  Speaker 4: want to poop.
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: One day I wish upon a microphone. So if I
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: just came up with that, I would want them to
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: make sure that they were prepared for that embarrassment. Anyway,
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  Speaker 2: good for her. She's worked a long time and she
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  Speaker 2: was the first black actress in 35 years to win
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  Speaker 2: Best Supporting. And she's been in a lot of shows.
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  Speaker 2: She's super talented. Good for her. Mindy Kaling looked gorgeous.
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  Speaker 2: And I loved what she said because I didn't even
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: think about this. She came out with BJ Novak and
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: their bit was, we're kind of pissed because when we
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: were doing The Office, we had to do 22 episodes
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: a year of For the category of series. Okay. Now
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: these series are eight episodes long. Mike White, who did
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: White Lotus. And you can go off to Hawaii in
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: a pandemic and film something with 20 people in your bubble.
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: And everyone can go back and do other movies. And
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: they're not, you know, they don't sign a contract for
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: seven years. So like you guys have it real easy.
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  Speaker 2: And I thought that was so funny. And I really
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  Speaker 2: believe like Mindy wrote that because she's so funny. But anyway,
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: she looked gorgeous. That was great. Pete Davidson wore a
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: Kanye West outfit and came out in sunglasses and was
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: actually kind of funny because he was self-deprecating and said
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: really nice things about Kenan, who was the host of
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: the show and really kept the show moving from SNL.
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: This pissed me off. Jimmy Kimmel. So Jimmy Kimmel was
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: in the category of best late-night talk show host, along
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: with Jon Stewart and... Treva, Noah, I think all guys,
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: you know, um, who else? Jimmy Fallon, Steph, but I
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: don't know. They were all nominated. Anyway, he didn't win. Um,
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  Speaker 2: John Oliver won. I mean, I guess it wasn't John Stewart.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: John Oliver won. And because he didn't win, then when
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: he had agreed to do a presenting thing with Will Arnett,
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: he's like, oh, won't the world find this funny that
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: I've never won and therefore they should feel sorry for
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: me and it's such a travesty. So I'm going to
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: lay on the ground and Will, you pull me like
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: I'm a dead person and And I'm going to lay
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: down and I'm not going to participate in what I
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: was contracted to do is read the nominees for this category.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: I thought it was so rude and so annoying. I'm
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: so sick of Jimmy Kimmel. I'm so sick of him
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: crying about once a month. He cries on his show.
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't watch it. He's never going
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: to ask me to be on it, especially after now.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: So who the fuck cares? Okay, so... This is for
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: best writer of a, I believe, pilot or an episode
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: or a show, okay? The girl who created the show
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: and wrote it and stars in it, the Abbott Elementary,
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: Quinta Bronson, who's beautiful, black, and her story is like
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: it took four years. She had an idea. This is
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  Speaker 2: everything I can relate to, except my pilots never got
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: picked up. But to star in it, to come up
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: with the concept, to write it, she wins. looking gorgeous,
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: comes up there. He's doing his dumb bit. He didn't
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: pop up and be like, congrats and walk away. He
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: laid there, he pulled a fricking Kanye and he laid there.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: So then she had to go stand there and go, hi,
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: and do her speech. And so rude and so annoying,
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: especially really Jimmy Kimmel. Like, let's just, let's just be
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: woke for a minute. You know, a black female wins
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: for writing in a show that's got like won four
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: other Emmys and is a hit and on your network ABC.
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: And you, the white male who was handed the show
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: like 10 years ago, who got in trouble for doing blackface, OK,
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: and had to go away and do these. That's like
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: maybe you didn't know that she was going to win.
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: Maybe you thought something someone else was going to win
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: and it would have worked out better. you're an asshole.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: You should have her on your show and you should
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: straight up apologize if it's not already in the works.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: She was really classy about it. She's not being mad
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: also because she's on ABC. So she's, you know, playing the,
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: playing it right. And she's like, it's not a big deal.
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: I'm happy to win. Who cares? And also she's smart. Why,
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: why use her time in answering questions by like starting
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: a beef with him? It's not worth it. It's not
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: necessary to the show. She plays a teacher. She's being
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: a classy teacher. So, um, hated that moment. Uh, Zendaya won.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: I look, sorry, sorry. Don't cancel me. You know, I
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: have a problem with names, but you know, I loved
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: euphoria and I watched both seasons. So I believe I
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: can speak on the fact that I'm thrilled that she won.
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: She plays a Rue who is a, a girl who
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: struggles with pill addiction as a teenager. And her speech
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: was stunning and, She's like, if you were, if you
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: are a Rue, if you've loved a Rue, I love
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: hearing your stories. I have chills thinking about it. She
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: looked absolutely stunning. She's an extremely tiny person. And the
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: dress she chose was absolutely perfect, very like Breakfast at Tiffany's,
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: classic black, strapless, and beautiful hair. And she looked great,
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: so good for her. Liz O'Toole wore a fabulous dress, big, big,
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: fabulous red dress. And she... won her Emmy for her,
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: her show, a dance competition show about what is it called?
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: Watch out for the big girls about, uh, girls that
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: are not size two that are excellent dancers. And she's
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: picking them to be on tour with her or they're
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: going to, and now they're going to go on their
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: own dance tour. These girls, one thing I noticed though,
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: and we all love Lizzo, But it took a lot
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: of time for her in her big dress. It took
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: up a lot of space to get up there. Then
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: she's calling out to her girls, telling them to come down.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: Thank God they didn't because that would have also taken
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: more time. I just noticed for her, the music never
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: played to shuffle her off. You know who the music
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: did play to shuffle her off? Jennifer Coolidge, who's been
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: in this business forever. I knew her from The Growling.
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: She was always so freaking nice. Talk about another fabulous,
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: supportive person I know from The Growling's lifestyle. Lisa Kudrow,
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: the day I found out I was no longer going
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: to be in the company because they voted before she
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: knew the results. She called me. I was going to,
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: I was going to go rollerblading and cause I didn't
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: know if I was going to go make it to
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: the main company. And she called me and she's like,
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: you know what, Heather, you're so fricking talented. I don't know.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: I voted for you. But if you don't go any further,
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: who gives a fuck? You know, people that stay in
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: that theater get weird. It was so encouraging. And I
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: went and rollerbladed. And like, she's just a great, great person.
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: And she handled her speech great. But she was, the
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: music went and she couldn't say everything she wanted to say.
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: And I'm just saying, I get it. You're the director.
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: You got to save the minutes for the people. And
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: who doesn't love Lizzo? And her dress was great. You
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: know whose dress wasn't great? What is this girl's name?
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: Julia Garner won for Best Supporting. She was also nominated,
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: which would have been amazing if she won for both,
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: but she was also nominated for Inventing Anna in the
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: lead role of a drama, and this was for Ozarks.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: She won. This is an awful dress, okay? It was velvet,
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: which made no sense that then she had a cutout,
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: a diamond cutout on her stomach. Now she has a
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: great stomach. She's pale. I don't mind that. It's a flat, tiny, non-surgical,
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: perfect little belly button. You know when you see those
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: weird belly buttons because, you know, they got like a
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: tummy tuck? No, this is like solid, thin. This girl
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: knew how to do some crunches. I just, it's an awful,
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: awful look, okay? Gerard Carmichael won for his best stand-up. Special,
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: and I think it's great he won. Again, not a
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: fan of the outfit. It was about 90 degrees out
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: that night, and he chose to wear a big white fur.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: I'm assuming it's faux. I don't know where a pita is.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: You know, why aren't they angry about this fur? And
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: no shirt, just nips out to the world to see. Also,
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: would have been a problem if he was a girl,
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: but whatever. Nips out, no shirt and a fur. He won.
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: I felt it was very, like, Lil Nas-ish, like, come on.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: He's gay, and not that that matters, but I just
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: felt like, you know, it was like, hey, I'm going
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: to really be me right now, which is great, and
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: congrats on winning. my girl from hacks. One Jean smart.
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: She has the best body. I mean, I don't even
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: know how old she is, but this body is so good.
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: And I loved her dress is off the shoulders white.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: It was fitted. It was long sleeve. I didn't love
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: the color on her. I'll say that. If she was
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: my friend, I'd be like, this cut is perfect. But
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: I just think white washed her out a little. Okay.
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: Seth Meyers and Amy Poehler did an awful bit that
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: wasn't funny at all. Sorry, not funny. Connie Britton, you guys,
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: I loved this coral pink color on her. It was
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: like a strapless dress with a cape. And I think
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: she had the cape Someone said, you know what, you're
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: wearing this beautiful cape that covers your shoulders. You shouldn't
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: wear your hair down. You should put it back. No,
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: Connie Britton, no and no and no. Connie Britton, for
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: the rest of your career, okay, you need to wear
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: your hair down at these events. Your hair is gorgeous.
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: It makes you, I'm sorry, like it just, I don't
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: think you look that great with your hair back. Angela Bassett, oh,
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: that body, yellow dress, gorgeous. With like a sequenced bodice. Stunning.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: She looked so good. That's it for the Emmys. There's
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: really nothing more to talk about. But it was good.
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: I liked it. I didn't expect to like it. I
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: liked it.
• 21:12
  Speaker 5: Itching.
• 21:13
  Speaker 6: Burning. Soreness.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: When you know it's thrush, you want it gone.
• 21:18
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• 21:21
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• 21:27
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• 21:29
  Speaker 6: To verify, contact info.ireland.bayor.com.
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: I'm Darman, and this is What Happens Next. Each week
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: on the show, I sit down with extraordinary people who
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: have faced tremendous setbacks, and yet somehow have found a
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: way to turn them into their greatest strengths.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: Life is one long lesson of chaos. I'm heading to
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: the Emmys, and I have police complaints filed against me.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: When your free will was about to be taken from you,
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: what would you do if it was given back?
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: Where did that need come from where you thought that
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: you had to succeed in order.
• 22:01
  Speaker 7: To feel loved?
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: He said, I have a work dad.
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: I need a home dad.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: What happens next? When I came in, he started crying.
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: Everybody in life encounters hardships. What defines them is not
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: those hard moments that they go through. It's about what
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: happens next.
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: I decided to risk it all. I realized how valuable
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: every day was. You're worth the work. Listen, Dara, I'm
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: not going to pull punches. You can use your voice
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: even if it shakes.
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: The stories are different, but the impact is the same.
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: Only one question matters. What happens next?
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: The Queen is getting... I don't even know where we
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: are in this thing. It's like a lot of days.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: It's a lot of comments. I said on Tuesday's show
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: that if Meghan Markle was not being well-received, it could
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: be that people weren't happy with the way she spoke
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: about the monarchy in the last year and a half
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: when she talked to Oprah and what came from that.
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: I got some hate for that. Really, Heather? You don't
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: think it's because Andrew's a perv? No, I totally think
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: it's because Prince Andrew's a perv and claimed that he
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: didn't sweat. I mean, of course I think he's guilty.
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: Of course, you know, I'm grossed out. I just, I
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: guess sometimes I just forgot to say it, you know?
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: And for all those Meghan Markle fans, good. I'm glad
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: you're happy to see her. She looks beautiful. There's TikToks
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: of her being very nice to people. And there's ones
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: where she's like annoyed and like, didn't like the flowers
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: someone handed her. People can nitpick it. There's body language experts.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: I don't care. She wore the pearls, the queen gave her.
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: And I think that's what you do. You wear the
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: jewelry of someone who that queen gave you. I wear
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: this ring every day. It was my grandmother's and then
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: it was my mother's. So I like a princess. I
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: definitely think where the jewels of the people who pass
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: it that love you, um, And, you know, it'll be
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: a beautiful ceremony. People are being mean about King Charles
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: that he has fat sausage fingers. Also that he doesn't
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: like the pens that people hand him. So it's going
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: to be a lot of that. Like I said, I'm
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: just like, whatever. You know, obviously she couldn't get her
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: podcast out this week. So I don't know what the
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: rest of you guys are doing. Good thing I'm here
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: to pick up the slack. Okay, so let's move on. Oh, okay.
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: Sister Wives, you guys. Yes, the show is boring and
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: I can't stop watching it. I've told you about this.
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: The first episode is out. They still are talking about COVID.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: And basically, Christine breaks up with Cody, who is so awful.
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: And Cody, she's like, I just... I don't want to
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: be around you anymore. You said you never wanted to
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: have sex with me. We probably haven't had sex in
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: 10 years. And you don't... And you say the future is...
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: He goes, lots of people are in non-romantic marriages and
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: they make it work. I don't know what the hell
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: her problem is. Yeah, but those people don't also have
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: three other wives, one of which who they are boning,
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: which is Robin. And she's like, the fact that there's
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: no hump, I'm just not freaking into it anymore. I
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: never liked it. I had to. have my own kids,
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: watch all the other kids in the day. And then
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: I would go and work at night because I had
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: to bring in an income. And I would ask you,
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: can you come and just put our kids to bed?
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: And you were like, no, I've got other wives. Well,
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: at that time, they were all living in one big house.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: Like he could just walk down the hall and put
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: the two kids to sleep that she shared with him.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: So she started having resentment way back when. And she
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: is out and he is just a dick. Like, I
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: feel like he's such a narcissist. Oh, you think? He
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: has four wives and a TV show and cameramen following
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: him around for the last 12 years. Yeah, he's a narcissist.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: And he's like, I just don't want you getting some
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: other husband that's going to try to take our money
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: and see my kids. So promise me you won't do that.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: And she's like, I promise. You got a girl after
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: her named Robin, adopted her kids, made wife number one,
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: divorced you so that she could be the only legally
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: married wife And then adopt her kids. And you're like, yeah,
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: you better not have a guy come around my kids.
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: He is the worst. Can't stop watching it. BravoCon, you guys,
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: is coming. I'm so happy that you knew to get
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: the tickets to my show. I've got Carlos King, who's
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: got all the juicy scoop. And he is my guest.
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: And I'm going to bring it all. And I'm going
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: to be there right down the street from where BravoCon
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: is at the Palladium, October 15th. If it's not sold
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: out yet, I think I'm down to probably like 50 tickets.
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: I would definitely get those tickets, whether you're going to
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: BravoCon or not, because I'll be recapping all the juice
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: that's happened. And they talk about all the stuff that's
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: going on. There's a lot of things happening on Friday, Saturday,
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: and Sunday. There's the three days. And Hollywood Life just
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: posted all the different panels and stuff that you can
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: go to. It's different than it was three years ago.
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: It was definitely more exclusive three years ago. They couldn't
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: sell as many tickets. Now it's like just, you know,
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: I think it's almost like when you go to like
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: a convention, like a Comic-Con really, and you can go
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: to all these different things. So I assume there's going
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: to be a, definitely a couple happening at the same
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: time in which you'll have to choose. But basically it's
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: a lot of putting these panels together. And some people
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: have agreed to do like six or seven panels. Others don't.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: You got to see them that one time because they're
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: a legend, okay? So there's like, here are some of them.
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: Bravo Family Night. That's like Candy's family versus Dolores' family.
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: A lot of Family Feud type of game stuff is
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: what they're doing with these panels. Every Housewife franchise will
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: have their own panel with the cast, and then they
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: kind of mix up people. There's a Bravo Crew Night.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: There's Bravo to Bravo, which is like all different people,
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: Josh Altman, Golnessa, Shep, Daisy, and they play games. There's
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: Bravo's Most Golden Moment Hour, Power Hour. That's like with
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: the legends, like with Jill Zarin and, you know, the
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: people that really started it. Write the relationship. Those are
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: the biggest flirts. All the single people talk about, like
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: Vicki Gofferson talked about, like their horrible relationships and their
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: funny stories. Okay, I assume. Modern Love is with everyone's
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: favorite couples. So Amanda, Kyle, Melissa, Joe, Lindsay and Carl,
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: Ariana and Tom, if they're still together. There's a rumor
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: that Ariana and Tom from Vanderpump are on the rocks.
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: Jersey Boys, all the Jersey House husbands, Million Dollar Listing guys,
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: East Coast vs. West Coast, Knowledge of Bravo, lots of
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: games and stuff like that. Summer House People. Then there's
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: a second Legends panel. Then there's the Battle of the Sexes.
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: So just a lot of ripping off old game shows,
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: but it's fine. We'll have fun with it. Bravo, Bravo,
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: fucking Bravo is... The way it was described was Bravo superfans,
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: like Mercedes, Whitney Rose, and Tamara Judge. They're superfans. Anyway,
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: they get tested on their Bravo knowledge because I guess
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: they love all the other shows, which we know. I
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: guess that's a pretty good idea. The Jersey Housewives, Housewife
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: to Housewife, where they like one from each... like one-on-one
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: or more than one from different houses, from different cities
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: talk to each other. Bravo BFF, so two Bravo stars
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: that are BFFs play a game against another Bravo BFF.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: Everything is basically games. So if you want the comedy
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: and the juice, you're going to come to my show,
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: the live juices cube Saturday night, which I don't think
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: it conflicts with anything from what I've told from the schedule.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: So like I said, if you're coming, you should be thrilled.
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: If you haven't, get your tickets now. And because after that,
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: I don't know what you're going to do with yourself. Oh,
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: latest on Sherry Papini. Remember her? She was the asshole
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: that faked her own kidnapping so she could hang out
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: with a boyfriend who she claimed she didn't even screw.
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: People said, Heather, they found his DNA on her underwear,
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: but it wasn't like sperm. It could have been like
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: he touched her. He said that she never slept with him.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: And she just used this guy to have the world
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: worry about her. Then she showed up and acted like
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: she was shackled, like a Jussie Smollett, right before Thanksgiving,
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: that Wednesday before Thanksgiving. Oh my God, I heard from
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: so many people that said they met their husband that
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: Wednesday before Thanksgiving in their hometown at the local bar.
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: I don't know what she was planning to do, but
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: she came home that Wednesday before Thanksgiving. Okay. So then
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: she comes home. Everyone's like, oh my God, thank God
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: she's found. But people were like, this is so weird.
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: Turns out it was all set up for attention. She's
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: a weirdo and the husband is divorcing her and prosecutors
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: are seeking eight months in prison for everything that she
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: put us through. She also has to pay back like
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: the 40, $ 50, 000 that she got from like a victim's
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: fund that happens where the state pays you if you're
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: a victim of a crime. So, and then also I
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: think there were some GoFundMes and some personal money and
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: stuff that just makes her look like a horrible person.
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: There's a photo of her in court, going to court,
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: and she looks very thin and definitely not as cute
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: as she used to be. And what an asshole. So
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: we'll see. I think eight months is a very appropriate time.
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: I wonder if anyone remembers what I predicted. I know
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: I predicted something short like this. for her time, but
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: I don't know what it was. Um, I think it
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: was about eight. I think eight months honestly is appropriate.
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: I don't really think she should get more than that. Um,
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: so I hope she gets it, does it get some
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: therapy while she's in there.
• 32:07
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: You guys, I'm going to see you this Friday in St. Paul,
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: this Saturday in Chicago with Justin Martindale. And then the
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: following weekend, I'll be in Seattle and Portland with Chris Frangio.
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: I've got a bunch of weekends, including Vegas, of course, um,
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: East coast, Texas, You want to get these tickets. This
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: is my fall tour. It is all live Juicy Scoops.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: All the meet and greets happen immediately after the show. Literally, like,
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: I'll go get a sip of water, come out, and
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: we'll start the meet and greet. That's how it works.
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: And the meet and greet tickets are a limited number.
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: So if it's sold out, it's sold out. Please come
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: to the show. And get your tickets because the shows
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: will sell out as well. And I'm not going to
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: be adding a bunch of second shows. The only second
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: show I added was Dallas, Texas so far. And I
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: don't know that I'll be adding any more. So please
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: get your tickets now. HeatherMcDonald.net. Join the Patreon. Enjoy. And
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: now for a great interview. This is an author of
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: a book called Bully Market. This is for anybody that's
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: ever been in a high-stress job, married, kids. It really,
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: there's such a life lesson in all of this. And
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: it's a great book, but we had a super juicy
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: interview and even some surprises. I did not know were
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: coming that I was like, ah, you came to the
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: right place to share this scoop, girl. Enjoy. What goes
• 33:35
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• 33:39
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• 33:52
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• 34:06
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• 34:15
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• 34:19
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• 34:23
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• 34:29
  Speaker 2: That's Chime.com slash Juicy. Chime is a financial technology company,
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: not a bank. Banking services provided by and debit card
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: issued by Bancorp Bank or Stride Bank. NA members FDIC
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: out-of-network ATM withdrawal fees apply except MoneyPass ATM in a
• 34:46
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• 34:51
  Speaker 2: Other fees such as a third-party and cash deposit fees
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: may apply. So I have a real juicy book and
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: I'm excited to speak to the author about it and
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: get all the scoop. The book is called Bully Market
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: and I'm here with the author, Jamie Fiore Higgins. Welcome
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: to Juicy Scoop. Thanks for coming on.
• 35:10
  Speaker 5: Thank you so much for having me.
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: So basically I think I saw like a, a New
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: York post or something about it and really intrigued me
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: and that you were in the whole wall street stock
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: market world, which doesn't have a lot of women in it.
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: And just from seeing what we saw, like in the
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: great movie, wall street, wolf of wall street and everything
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: we kind of know about being like a man's business.
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: I just wanted you to kind of tell me exactly
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: like what, Not exactly, but really just give me the juice.
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: What happened? What is your advice? What is this book about?
• 35:48
  Speaker 5: All of it.
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 35:49
  Speaker 5: So where should we start?
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: How did you get into such a male-driven business and
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: did you find it difficult or did you just always
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: excel in math and that kind of the way that
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: the brain works?
• 36:04
  Speaker 5: So funny enough, it's not really what I ever wanted
• 36:08
  Speaker 5: to do. I wanted to be a social worker. Growing up,
• 36:13
  Speaker 5: I had a lot of health issues and really benefited
• 36:16
  Speaker 5: from my kind doctors and that kind of support work, therapists.
• 36:21
  Speaker 5: So that's really what I wanted to do. And my
• 36:25
  Speaker 5: parents were basically like, no way. She's always said, every
• 36:28
  Speaker 5: generation's got to do better. You got to move the
• 36:30
  Speaker 5: family forward. So in 1998, you wanted to make money.
• 36:34
  Speaker 5: You went to Wall Street. And I went to this
• 36:37
  Speaker 5: small liberal arts college called Bryn Mawr and Goldman happened
• 36:41
  Speaker 5: to recruit there. And I went to an event there
• 36:45
  Speaker 5: one night and it was so fancy because it was
• 36:47
  Speaker 5: at the alumni house and there were canapes and cocktails
• 36:51
  Speaker 5: and there was a super sharp, amazing, gorgeous woman who
• 36:55
  Speaker 5: took the stage and she was so smart, but she
• 36:59
  Speaker 5: was also really kind and I didn't even know what
• 37:01
  Speaker 5: Goldman Sachs did at the time, but I was enamored
• 37:04
  Speaker 5: with her. And I went home and I called my mom.
• 37:06
  Speaker 5: I'm like, I don't know what Goldman Sachs does, but
• 37:09
  Speaker 5: I really want to work there. And then I did
• 37:10
  Speaker 5: my research and I had 40 interviews to get the job. Wow.
• 37:16
  Speaker 5: It's like they really run you through the gauntlet. So
• 37:19
  Speaker 5: I interviewed on campus, then at the local office, which
• 37:22
  Speaker 5: was Philadelphia. And then I had a super day. And
• 37:25
  Speaker 5: I was so happy I got the job because- it
• 37:29
  Speaker 5: was just the job everyone wanted. And I was, I
• 37:31
  Speaker 5: was making my family like so proud. Right. So yeah.
• 37:36
  Speaker 5: So that's kind of how I got there. And then,
• 37:39
  Speaker 5: you know, early on, I started to really see that
• 37:42
  Speaker 5: maybe the woman I met on campus was.
• 37:44
  Speaker 7: One of those like paid spokespeople, you know, that like,
• 37:47
  Speaker 7: wasn't really there because like, I kind of envisioned this
• 37:52
  Speaker 7: Goldman Sachs being this kind of upper crust and, you know, pinky,
• 37:57
  Speaker 7: raised with tea.
• 37:58
  Speaker 5: I don't know. I just see this very fancy, posh place.
• 38:03
  Speaker 5: And I was kind of dropped into this locker room
• 38:07
  Speaker 5: with a lot of what I call the white noise
• 38:10
  Speaker 5: of Wall Street, just comments on women's breast size and
• 38:14
  Speaker 5: leg length and their butt and how good it looks.
• 38:17
  Speaker 5: And I was kind of like, where the hell did
• 38:20
  Speaker 5: I go? Because I went to a women's college too.
• 38:23
  Speaker 5: So I kind of, although I didn't rush for a sorority,
• 38:27
  Speaker 5: we were kind of one big sorority.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: Right, right. So it was.
• 38:30
  Speaker 5: Very weird going from being where I was with women
• 38:33
  Speaker 5: all the time to being one of the few women
• 38:35
  Speaker 5: in the room. I was like really uprooted, like coming
• 38:39
  Speaker 5: into Goldman. I mean, they used to joke, they used
• 38:41
  Speaker 5: to call me Sister Jamie because they would just like
• 38:43
  Speaker 5: make jokes. In fact, there was a woman I worked
• 38:46
  Speaker 5: with a couple of years older and And she was
• 38:49
  Speaker 5: always off the desk. Like, so we, if you've seen
• 38:52
  Speaker 5: Wolf of Wall Street or Boiler Room, you know, these big,
• 38:55
  Speaker 5: long rows of workstations. And I kept getting calls and
• 38:59
  Speaker 5: I kept filling out the while you were out slips.
• 39:02
  Speaker 5: And I said, you know, I hope so-and-so's okay. And
• 39:06
  Speaker 5: the guys that go, she's out fucking XYZ at the
• 39:09
  Speaker 5: hotel down the street. How else does she win the business?
• 39:13
  Speaker 5: And I was just like.
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: Oh my God. So wait, so she did what you did,
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: but to get clients, she would sleep with them. Absolutely. Yeah.
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 39:22
  Speaker 5: And then that's when like one of the guys is like,
• 39:24
  Speaker 5: don't you know, Jamie, like, you know, sex gets you
• 39:27
  Speaker 5: further on wall street than any I've league diploma. And so,
• 39:32
  Speaker 5: you know, it definitely felt like as a woman, we
• 39:36
  Speaker 5: were almost like Barbie dolls that they played with. So
• 39:38
  Speaker 5: I was like, none Barbie sister, Jamie. And then she
• 39:42
  Speaker 5: was kind of like the slut who slept and we
• 39:44
  Speaker 5: were all like these archetypes almost. in this kind of
• 39:48
  Speaker 5: man's world, which was funny because they were all kind
• 39:51
  Speaker 5: of being themselves together, having a great time.
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: Now, knowing about the girl that slept with the people
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: to get the clients, like, are you like, oh, thank
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: God I don't have to do that. Thank God I
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: don't have the morality to put myself in that position.
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: Are you like good for you, girl? Use every asset
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: you have. Like what's your added or are you disgusted?
• 40:11
  Speaker 5: You know, I feel like if you were to ask
• 40:13
  Speaker 5: me today, I'd feel a little more like empowerment with it.
• 40:17
  Speaker 5: But back then, I was just like, ew, right? I
• 40:22
  Speaker 5: was just like, ew. And the shame is, Heather, she
• 40:25
  Speaker 5: was super smart. Like, she had everything she needed without that.
• 40:31
  Speaker 5: So it kind of was more frustrating to me that
• 40:34
  Speaker 5: this organization rewarded that or encouraged that.
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: Or is she... smart. And she's like, what do I,
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: if I got to, you know, think about something for
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: a half hour while I have sex with you and
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: then get your huge account and get to do what
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: I really like doing, investing it. Like I am smart
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: for doing that. Like what, what the hell do I care?
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: Or like knowing, or kind of knowing, like I always say,
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: like with the Harvey, all the Harvey Weinstein stuff and everything,
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: I'm always like, where's the woman that comes forward now
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: at like 60 and says, yeah, 20, you know, 30
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: years ago or whatever, I knew the only way I
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: was going to get this great part was to sleep,
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: you know, sleep with the producer. Once the world saw
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: I was a good actress, I never had to sleep
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: with the producers again, but I knew there's no way
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: I'm going to get it just by auditioning. So it's like,
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: I'm kind of like, I always want, I actually really
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: would love to hear from women that actually say that.
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: And they're like, And you know, and not that they,
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: and hopefully today, like, and hopefully you guys don't have
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: to do that today because we've exposed it, but I
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: did have to do it back then, you know?
• 41:46
  Speaker 5: And a hundred percent. And like, what I think about
• 41:49
  Speaker 5: my reaction then, like having the years since I've been gone,
• 41:54
  Speaker 5: the process of writing the book, and also not thinking
• 41:57
  Speaker 5: about things as a 46 year old woman, not a
• 41:59
  Speaker 5: 22 year old woman.
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: It's like, you know what?
• 42:02
  Speaker 5: She made the decision she made. And to your point,
• 42:05
  Speaker 5: you know what? Maybe in her estimation, this is what
• 42:08
  Speaker 5: she needed to get ahead. Goldman's really good. Like I
• 42:11
  Speaker 5: always say, I started off my career and I was really,
• 42:14
  Speaker 5: really good at numbers. And I worked really, really hard.
• 42:19
  Speaker 5: But as I got more senior, I was really good
• 42:22
  Speaker 5: at keeping my mouth shut. Really good at keeping my
• 42:25
  Speaker 5: mouth shut. So, you know, it started off early on when.
• 42:31
  Speaker 5: One of the women who I mentored, you know, and
• 42:34
  Speaker 5: I would be kind of like the poster child of,
• 42:36
  Speaker 5: oh yeah, you can have it all at Goldman Sachs.
• 42:38
  Speaker 5: And one of the women who, um, who I mentored
• 42:41
  Speaker 5: started having a real hard time with some of the
• 42:43
  Speaker 5: guys who didn't like her and just had it in
• 42:46
  Speaker 5: for her and basically drove all her business away from her,
• 42:51
  Speaker 5: basically called clients and said, she's on our list. Don't
• 42:54
  Speaker 5: do business with her. And then what happened was her
• 42:57
  Speaker 5: volume started going down and therefore her performance started going down.
• 43:01
  Speaker 5: She complained. I tried to support her. She quit. I
• 43:04
  Speaker 5: was happy. She ended up suing or someone sued. I
• 43:08
  Speaker 5: think it was her. And my partner, the senior guy
• 43:11
  Speaker 5: was like, she's saying that these two guys, excuse me,
• 43:15
  Speaker 5: made her life hell. And I said, they did. And
• 43:18
  Speaker 5: then the next thing you know, when she sued, my
• 43:20
  Speaker 5: partner said, oh, outside counsel is going to call. They
• 43:24
  Speaker 5: want to know from you what it's like to be
• 43:27
  Speaker 5: a working woman at Goldman Sachs. And you're not going
• 43:29
  Speaker 5: to say anything because I'm about to promote you and
• 43:32
  Speaker 5: then you'll really get paid. So what's negative to say
• 43:36
  Speaker 5: about that? So I didn't say a thing.
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: So like, what's, what's like your attitude now? Because sometimes
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: I thinking in the world of like, there is no
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: hazing anymore. Um, And sometimes with the hazing back in
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: the sorority and fraternity days, it really does bond you
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: just like a boot camp. I mean, it does bond you.
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: It does weed out the people that aren't into it.
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: But I get in this society, we look around and
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: we're like, that's awful. But at the same time, I mean,
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: maybe those layers are what does make someone a really
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: successful person. investment banker or stockbroker or whatever. So like
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: what do you think about it now looking back of
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: how it could be done better or some things that
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: should stay or what?
• 44:23
  Speaker 5: Listen, I think their focus on attention to detail is
• 44:28
  Speaker 5: like super, super important. So I think you can still
• 44:31
  Speaker 5: have the expectations for incredible work ethic and incredible production,
• 44:37
  Speaker 5: but I think you can get that without the shame component.
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 44:41
  Speaker 5: You know what I mean? I think you can have
• 44:43
  Speaker 5: super high expectations for like nailing different projects, but But
• 44:48
  Speaker 5: I don't know if it's necessary to like lock you
• 44:51
  Speaker 5: out of the door that you're like banging on the door,
• 44:53
  Speaker 5: you know, and like shaming people. So I think there's
• 44:57
  Speaker 5: a way that you could still require excellence. But I
• 45:01
  Speaker 5: think at the end of the day, most people are
• 45:03
  Speaker 5: motivated more by attaboys than oh shits. So, you know,
• 45:09
  Speaker 5: I think there's a way that you could still get
• 45:11
  Speaker 5: that kind of best performance. response and best production without
• 45:16
  Speaker 5: the shaming piece. And then I also think the whole
• 45:19
  Speaker 5: shaming piece around your appearance or your interests is like
• 45:23
  Speaker 5: really not necessary. How would they do that? Well, I mean,
• 45:27
  Speaker 5: you know, it, In my experience, I found that if
• 45:31
  Speaker 5: your values aligned with whoever's in the glass office, which
• 45:35
  Speaker 5: is what you would expect, like kind of a, you know,
• 45:38
  Speaker 5: a heterosexual white male, like you're good. But if you
• 45:42
  Speaker 5: have different, you know, if you have different interests, you know,
• 45:45
  Speaker 5: watch out. So for example, I wanted to pump for
• 45:48
  Speaker 5: my kids, you know, I was basically told no, because
• 45:51
  Speaker 5: it's a waste of time though. It's okay.
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: If you leave your desk to get your haircut or
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: your shoe shined, right.
• 45:59
  Speaker 5: And then when I actually had the guts with my
• 46:01
  Speaker 5: fourth kid to hump, they mooed at me, put stuffed
• 46:06
  Speaker 5: cows on my desk, put milk cartons on my desk.
• 46:10
  Speaker 5: You know, this kind of like stupid little immature crap.
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: And what year was that they were doing that? 2016.
• 46:18
  Speaker 5: Wasn't that long ago.
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: I'm just shocked that like, If someone wasn't like, hey, dude, like,
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: what the fuck? Like, your wife is home doing this.
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: Why can't she? Like, I just can't believe it. You know, like,
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: I always wonder in all this, like, sexual harassment stories
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: and stuff, I'm like... you know, the people that we
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: never hear about is the guys that do tell the
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: other guys like, knock it off, Dick. Was there anybody
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: like that? That was like, you know, cause once someone,
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: once their peer tells them like, Hey, you're being a creep.
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: Can you back the fuck away from her? It always
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: seems that seems to really work the best. And so
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: I always say, Hey, if you're a guy listening to
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: this and you see it happening, be that guy for
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: your female coworker before it gets to a place of,
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: HR and someone having to quit or whatever. Did, did
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: you experience any of that?
• 47:12
  Speaker 5: So not enough, I'm not going to say there were none,
• 47:14
  Speaker 5: but what I found is, and you know, I feel
• 47:18
  Speaker 5: like in some ways I joke that Goldman put the
• 47:20
  Speaker 5: cult and culture, there's this like unwavering, um, um, loyalty
• 47:27
  Speaker 5: toward like the senior person. So, you know, they might
• 47:33
  Speaker 5: think it, but they're afraid to say it because, so
• 47:36
  Speaker 5: for example, this guy used to work with, who was
• 47:39
  Speaker 5: a partner at the firm, like one guy was demoted
• 47:43
  Speaker 5: because he wanted to leave early to get to coach
• 47:46
  Speaker 5: his kids, little league team, you know, like these things
• 47:49
  Speaker 5: were just like, honestly talked about. So I think there
• 47:52
  Speaker 5: was so much fear. to stand up that even if
• 47:56
  Speaker 5: in your gut, you're like, this doesn't feel right. They're like,
• 47:58
  Speaker 5: you know what? I don't want to shoot my mouth
• 48:00
  Speaker 5: off and have my bonus slash too. So it's that
• 48:03
  Speaker 5: kind of like group think mentality where that one person.
• 48:08
  Speaker 5: has the power to create the environment or one or
• 48:11
  Speaker 5: two people have the power to create the environment. So
• 48:13
  Speaker 5: that's one of the things like I want to spread
• 48:16
  Speaker 5: the message with this book. And I've gotten like 200
• 48:19
  Speaker 5: different messages from people, a lot of women, but a
• 48:21
  Speaker 5: lot of men who are like, you know what? I
• 48:24
  Speaker 5: don't look up enough and pay attention. I'm just so
• 48:28
  Speaker 5: focused on my own world and my own stuff that
• 48:31
  Speaker 5: I don't look up enough around and say, hey, cut
• 48:33
  Speaker 5: that out. And I'm going to start doing that more.
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's good. Do you think though, in this post
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: Me Too world that, because I've heard this, especially in
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: the finance world, that women were getting hired more and
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: we were seeing more women in this field. And then
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: with the Me Too, it's too risky for the boss
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: because he's like, I've already got, you know, 20 guys.
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: And if I hire this pretty girl that's, you know,
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: got a lot going for her and the grades and everything.
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: If I choose her over this guy, I can't trust
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: that they're going to go out for drinks after in
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: a big group and someone's going to get drunk and
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: say something wrong. or possibly, you know, hit on her.
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: I'd rather just hire all guys. Do you think that's
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: starting to happen?
• 49:27
  Speaker 5: Listen, I think that, yes, I do think that's happening.
• 49:31
  Speaker 5: And in fact, too, like I know that's happening with
• 49:35
  Speaker 5: women who are like nearing childbearing age, right? Like I
• 49:39
  Speaker 5: had a guy who told me offline, like I was
• 49:42
  Speaker 5: looking for someone and I just want to avoid anyone
• 49:45
  Speaker 5: in their twenties or thirties. Cause I don't want the
• 49:47
  Speaker 5: headache of a maternity leave, which is just like crazy
• 49:50
  Speaker 5: to me because it's like men can father kids in
• 49:54
  Speaker 5: perpetuity until they're like dying day. And it's never thought
• 49:58
  Speaker 5: of as like an affliction, you know? And, um, so yeah, listen,
• 50:03
  Speaker 5: I think a lot of the big corporations are saying
• 50:05
  Speaker 5: we want to hire 50% women. And the good thing
• 50:08
  Speaker 5: is that they're doing it. The problem is they're not
• 50:10
  Speaker 5: sticking around. But I really think that the sentiments are changing.
• 50:15
  Speaker 5: And I think it has a lot to do with
• 50:16
  Speaker 5: the experience your parents had. Meaning, I don't know about you,
• 50:20
  Speaker 5: but my parents were the like, you suck it up.
• 50:22
  Speaker 5: You stay for 40 years. You get the gold watch,
• 50:25
  Speaker 5: you know. I feel like a lot of these younger kids,
• 50:28
  Speaker 5: they have parents who kind of worked through the 2008
• 50:31
  Speaker 5: crisis and maybe don't have that loyalty that you suck
• 50:35
  Speaker 5: it up. It's maybe you look for the best environment
• 50:38
  Speaker 5: for you and make it work. And so I think
• 50:41
  Speaker 5: companies have to be really thoughtful about, number one, what
• 50:44
  Speaker 5: they're expecting from their employees off the clock. And if
• 50:48
  Speaker 5: those expectations are in line with everyone, so you could
• 50:53
  Speaker 5: have a fair relationship Where women and men can have
• 50:57
  Speaker 5: a fair way to both succeed, where it's not slated
• 51:01
  Speaker 5: all the way for one side to succeed and the
• 51:03
  Speaker 5: other side not.
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: I mean, do you feel like I know I feel
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: as a working mom that I oftentimes have a lot
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: of sadness about what I missed when they were little.
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: You know, I said my biggest regret is that I
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: didn't fight my husband more on putting this and purchasing
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: a play set in our backyard because I could have
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: used that, you know, after work with my kids. I
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: could have gone and had my coffee out there with
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: them and stuff. And I have so much more time
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: now that I have my own business, but I did
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: have the commute. I could not, I never, I never
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: ever used the mom card and I was the only
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: mom on staff. And then as the men started having children,
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: they did leave for doctor's appointments. They were going to
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: the doctor's appointments. And I was like, wait, where is he? Oh,
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: you know, little Timmy has a, his six month checkup.
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: And so he went with his wife and I'm like,
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: are you kidding? Like I've been here for seven years.
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: I started when my kids were four and one and
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: a half and seven, my stepdaughter was seven. And I'm like, I,
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: my husband took them, you know? And then in my office,
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: they would often really make fun of the fact that
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: my husband was the main caregiver. And I was like,
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: so it would be better that he was working full
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: time and we just had a nanny that didn't give
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: a shit about our kids raising them. Would you prefer that?
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: Yet all these other men, their wives were home all
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: the time. And I'm like, I will never diss your wife.
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: for being at home with your kids. And so it's like,
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: I just think so many times it just has to
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: be pointed out like you did with that story about
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: which was biologically impossible for a woman to go off
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: to Asia. Once you bring it up, then people are like,
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: oh my God, you're right. That is so wrong. You're right.
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: It's just pointing it out so much more that I
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: think is so Like, you know, it's just very important.
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: And I think in going forward and like finding the
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: careers that work for you, I also think the other
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: thing that I've noticed is really interesting. And maybe it's
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: my for you page on TikTok. I don't know. But
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: I'm seeing a lot of like young women that their
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: flex is that they married well and they don't have
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: to work.
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: Hmm.
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: And they do that. There's a whole trend where they're like, yeah,
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: look at this. And, you know, I, I can just
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: go to Starbucks and wear Lululemons and, and I can
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: have as many kids as I want because that's what
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: he says. And, and people, and it's kind of weird.
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: Cause like when I was growing up, you know, my
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: mom was so happy to go to college herself and
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: she was so happy to work after being a stay
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: at home mom for 17 years. that I just assumed
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: I would always work. But there was this little part
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: of me that was like, well, that would be nice
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: if I didn't have to. And now I think people
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: are realizing like, you should be able to, if you can,
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: that that's not like a shameful thing, even if you
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: have an education or whatever. I mean, I do think
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: it's hard to get back in the workforce. That's the
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: only thing. I do think that is hard if you
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: go like, 10, 20 years without ever having some type
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: of job. And I also think for your own self-esteem,
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: I think each parent, man and woman, should always have
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: at least something outside of the home that gives them confidence,
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: whatever that might be, big or small of a career
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: or a charity or whatever. I think that's really important
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: because I think you might get too comfortable. And if
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: you get divorced, I don't care how rich you thought
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: or how great your thought the deal was, it could
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: be pretty crushing. Like if you get divorced and you're
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: a stay-at-home mom and all you did was raise your
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: kids and your last kid's 17 and the husband's like, yeah,
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: we're not in love anymore and I'm leaving. And you
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: don't have a job to go to and you don't
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: have a career and you don't have anything. And now
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: all the kids are out of the house. I think
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: that could be extremely devastating. And that's why I don't
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: think it's a... it's that's why I say you should
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: always have something else going on just for your own
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: like confidence because the kids leave, they leave. Yeah.
• 55:14
  Speaker 5: I mean, listen, I would say that I think it's, Oh,
• 55:20
  Speaker 5: I think when I think of women's empowerment, it's like
• 55:23
  Speaker 5: having the power to choose what's best for you.
• 55:26
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 55:26
  Speaker 5: So it's not necessarily, if you have that college degree or,
• 55:30
  Speaker 5: put it to good use with the job. If that's
• 55:32
  Speaker 5: not the choice you make, what I would say is like,
• 55:34
  Speaker 5: part of the problem I had was I had, my
• 55:38
  Speaker 5: identity was so tied up to being a managing director
• 55:42
  Speaker 5: at Goldman Sachs, which kind of to your point, someone's
• 55:45
  Speaker 5: identity could be so tied up in being someone's trophy
• 55:49
  Speaker 5: wife or being someone's mom. And to me, it's a
• 55:54
  Speaker 5: super slippery slope when your identity identification is tied to
• 56:00
  Speaker 5: one thing. When I left Goldman Sachs, Heather, I was depressed,
• 56:05
  Speaker 5: like so depressed. Like it was as if my identity
• 56:10
  Speaker 5: at Goldman Sachs was like the anchor, like, like the
• 56:13
  Speaker 5: balloon weight to my balloon.
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: And now I was just floating in the, like, never sphere.
• 56:18
  Speaker 6: Like, who am I?
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: What do I do?
• 56:19
  Speaker 5: So I think that As people, as humans, we have
• 56:23
  Speaker 5: to have an identity that's our own, regardless of what
• 56:29
  Speaker 5: we do for money or what we do for a career.
• 56:31
  Speaker 5: And guess what? Some careers don't pay.
• 56:33
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 56:34
  Speaker 5: Your career might be to be someone's mom or someone's husband.
• 56:37
  Speaker 5: They don't pay, but you have to be more than that.
• 56:40
  Speaker 5: Because to your point, the job might end. The man
• 56:43
  Speaker 5: might leave. The kids might go to school. What then?
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 56:47
  Speaker 5: And like, to me, writing this book has been such
• 56:50
  Speaker 5: a discovery of like, I am beyond what I do.
• 56:53
  Speaker 5: I am who I just am.
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: It's like not just what we do. It's just who
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: we are. You know, what's also interesting is that I
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: was talking to someone and her parents were older and
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: they lived in this really nice, like retirement, Sun City
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: community thing. And they were like very outgoing people in
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: their seventies. And they're like, oh my God, we're so
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: busy every night. You know, we're part of all these clubs.
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: And the mom goes, you know, what's so amazing is
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: no one asks, what did you do? They just say,
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: what do you like? What are you binge watching on Netflix? Yeah.
• 57:26
  Speaker 5: They're like, what did you read? What podcast do you
• 57:28
  Speaker 5: listen to? Yeah.
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, well, why do you have to wait
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: till 70 to start a conversation like that? Like everybody
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: in our age range, you know, it's always like, Oh,
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: and what do you do? What do you do for
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: a career? What's your job? And it's like, Yeah. That,
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: and now, and not then when you're 75, no one's asking. Oh,
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: so you were a doctor. I don't really care. Are
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: you joining the swinger club over here or whatever?
• 57:50
  Speaker 5: I ask people now, what do you watch? What are
• 57:52
  Speaker 5: you binge watching? What are you reading? Cause I don't
• 57:55
  Speaker 5: care because I refuse to believe that that's how we're defined.
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 58:02
  Speaker 5: And you know, for me, like when I walked away
• 58:04
  Speaker 5: from that and you know, it's part of the reason
• 58:07
  Speaker 5: why I did is because I had, One of the
• 58:09
  Speaker 5: big reasons why I walked away from Goldman Sachs is
• 58:11
  Speaker 5: I cheated on my husband while I was at Goldman. Well,
• 58:13
  Speaker 5: let's get to that.
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I want to hear about that. Tell me about that.
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: Let's end on that juicy bit.
• 58:18
  Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah.
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: So like, and you know, you'll appreciate- How long were
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: you married for when this happened?
• 58:28
  Speaker 5: Probably, ironically, seven years.
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: So, and you had how many kids at that time? Three. Okay.
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: And so how did this affair start?
• 58:37
  Speaker 5: And so, you know, kind of going back to the guilt,
• 58:41
  Speaker 5: I mean, I wanted to be everything to everyone. I
• 58:45
  Speaker 5: wanted to be that mom. I was, I was, I
• 58:48
  Speaker 5: was like zipping out, dialing into Girl Scout meetings. So,
• 58:54
  Speaker 5: you know, for my girls and I was trying to be, well,
• 58:58
  Speaker 5: probably not even at that point, but I would say
• 59:00
  Speaker 5: PTO meetings to be a class mom, right?
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 59:03
  Speaker 5: I was trying to be everything to everyone and I
• 59:05
  Speaker 5: just couldn't do it. I just felt like I was
• 59:07
  Speaker 5: failing at everything. And I worked with this guy for years.
• 59:12
  Speaker 5: He had just sent his youngest off to college split
• 59:16
  Speaker 5: kind of, we talked about often happens. And it was my,
• 59:20
  Speaker 5: and you know, you'll appreciate this. And I feel like
• 59:22
  Speaker 5: a lot of people, the young people don't, but it
• 59:24
  Speaker 5: was my Calgon take me away moment. So for your,
• 59:27
  Speaker 5: for your young listeners, they won't get that, but it
• 59:29
  Speaker 5: was like my escape. And so here I was, I
• 59:32
  Speaker 5: was strung out and here comes this guy who'd be like,
• 59:36
  Speaker 5: let me take out for a glass of wine. You know,
• 59:38
  Speaker 5: you're doing everything right. You're such a good mom. You're
• 59:41
  Speaker 5: such a good employee. Like, let me just take it
• 59:44
  Speaker 5: out and like, just tell you how great you are.
• 59:46
  Speaker 5: And I just melted. because I just felt- And so.
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: What, how many times did you go out for the
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: glass of wine to the point where you got the
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: tingles and then it led to more?
• 59:56
  Speaker 5: And that's the funny thing, because I had worked with
• 59:58
  Speaker 5: this guy before this and I hadn't gotten a tingle.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 5: So it just goes to show you a lot of
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 5: times when this stuff happens, it's just more, it's a fix.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 5: Like it could have been cocaine, right?
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: It was just a fix. It's like circumstantial sometimes. Totally.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 5: Totally. And I had three kids under three and I
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 5: was just, my husband was miserable because he took a
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 5: step back from work to help with the kids and
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 5: we never had time to talk. And so it was
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 5: glasses of wine every Friday. And then it was, let
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 5: me take you out to dinner. And then it, and
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 5: then it was, you know, oh my gosh, like fooling
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 5: around in a dark bar.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: And wait, so when did the first kiss happen though?
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 5: The first kiss happened in the back of a town car,
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 5: like in a back of like a Cadillac Escalade on
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 5: the way home after a dinner.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: And it was just.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 5: Like, he made me feel so beautiful, so wanted. I
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 5: felt like a woman again, you know, not just a
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 5: mom and a breadwinner and a daughter. And, you know, and,
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 5: you know, my husband and I, we hardly talked and
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 5: he was miserable and it felt so good. And then
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 5: of course I had so much shame afterwards because I'm like,
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 5: what the hell am I doing with my life? But
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 5: he also knew I was ripe for the picking too.
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 5: And he was lonely and he was.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: Always- So now would you like go to hotel rooms
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: and stuff like in the middle of the day?
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 5: No, because he was an empty nester. So, and that's
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 5: how I actually got caught because- he, we would go
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 5: to his house and then my husband saw my activity
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 5: on easy pass and he would like track my phone
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 5: and he'd be like, I know where you were. And,
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 5: you know, and really the biggest moment was that we
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 5: were at the point where we were hardly talking. And
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 5: then my daughter called one night when I was like,
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 5: literally like we were like naked there. And my little
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 5: daughter was like, mommy, my belly hurts. When are you
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 5: coming home? Like, I want you to snuggle me to bed. Oh,
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 5: And I was just like, what the hell am I
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 5: doing with my life? Like, this is just like, it
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 5: was my kind of come to Jesus moment. And then,
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 5: you know what I really realized, Heather, was that like,
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 5: you know, this sounds so bad, but it's just true. Like,
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 5: I realized my husband could pick up off and leave me. Like,
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 5: here I was, like, I was making all these bad decisions.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 5: I had a really unhealthy habit of taking Xanax, like TikTok,
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 5: Tic Tacs. So, you know, drinking at night. fool around
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 5: with this guy. And then, you know, and my husband
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 5: was like, if you don't call it off with him,
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 5: I'm out of here.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: So now how do you find out?
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: Oh, the easy pass.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 5: So when did you, and tracking my phone.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: Okay. So like, so wait, first the daughter called, but
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: he didn't know about it. And that made you feel bad.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: And then he found out about it.
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 5: And then I came home and I was like, oh,
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 5: I'm sorry. It was a late night. And he's like,
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 5: I know where you were. I was tracking your phone.
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 5: I see your easy pass. I know you were around.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 5: And I was, I was in New Jersey.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: But did he think that you were sleeping with someone
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: at that point? Or did he just thought you were
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: like blowing off the family?
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 5: I think he thought I was more blowing off the family.
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 5: And like, kind of to your point, like, why the
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 5: hell do you want to come home to this hot
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 5: mess with the three kids under three? Like, you know,
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 5: and in my defense, I do go out with clients
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 5: a lot.
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: Right, right.
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 5: So then when did you admit it or stop it
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 5: or what? Yeah, well, right then and there, he was like,
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 5: I will leave you. And Heather, I'm embarrassed to say that, like,
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 5: I didn't even think that was an option, you know?
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 5: And I'm like, oh my God, like I could just
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 5: lose it all. Like I could lose it all. Like,
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 5: and again, I can't tell you enough this thinking back
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 5: to our original conversation about the girl who was fooling
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 5: around with the guy in the middle of the day
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 5: at lunch. Like I remember just being so shocked by that.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 5: And here I was messing around with my boss. Like
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 5: what a cliche I had been, you know? And what
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 5: I really realized was it was just my escape. Like
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 5: I was in such a pressure cooker there, basically constantly
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 5: looking the other way when I witnessed bad things happening,
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 5: you know, telling lies to protect my job. And then,
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 5: you know, now doing this, I was like, what did
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 5: I become? Like, I was like, Sister Jamie, I was
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 5: the good Catholic girl, you know?
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: Like, so that night, you guys, you admit it all
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: to him that night. Yeah. And then, um, I mean,
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: all of it, he like put his fist through the wall.
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 5: My husband is like, my husband is like such a
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 5: nice guy, but like literally he had had enough and
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 5: he was doing bad stuff too. He was drinking way
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 5: too much. He was partying with his friends, do it.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 5: God knows what God knows who he stopped wearing his
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 5: wedding ring. And I'm like, here I am working my
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 5: butt off to make this money for this family for what?
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: And the family can be destroyed.
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 5: And like, you know, I talk a lot about my
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 5: grandmother in the book, but like my Italian grandmother, you know,
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 5: with the St. Jude candles and working the beads, the
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 5: rosary beads for me, you know, she had been long gone,
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 5: but I was like, what would she have thought of me?
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 5: You know, like she didn't raise me to be like this.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: Um, and so then did you go ahead?
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 5: So, yeah. So then I called it off with him and,
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 5: you know, ironically it was such a mess, but I
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 5: had gotten promoted and The way it works at Goldman
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 5: is they have these titles. Basically everyone eventually becomes a
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 5: vice president. That's not like a super exclusive title. And
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 5: then there's managing directors of partners and they really manage
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 5: the number of those to keep it exclusive. And so
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 5: basically I had been promoted. He had been asked to leave.
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 5: I didn't realize it at the time, but basically right
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 5: when I called it off, he basically resigned.
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: Because it all worked out nicely. It all worked out
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: that he wasn't there. And how did you tell him
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: that it was over? And did he try to convince
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: you otherwise to do otherwise?
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 5: Yeah, he could be, he, and listen, I don't really
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 5: know what his real intentions were at the end of
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 5: the day, but he gave me the best lines that,
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 5: you know, he wanted to take care of me. And,
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 5: you know, he, he, he loved my kids and he
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 5: wouldn't mind stepping in and, imagine we'd have these amazing
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 5: weekends together in the city and we'd go look at
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 5: art galleries. And he was kind of selling me this
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 5: like amazing thing where I, you know, only have my
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 5: kids every other weekend. I would get to play in
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 5: the city and kind of going back to, I was
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 5: kind of the arm candy, right?
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: Like here I was in my late thirties.
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 5: He was in his late fifties. Like I was his
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 5: like young, you know, romantic interest and, And, uh, yeah, he,
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 5: he told me he loved me. He said all the
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 5: right things. I don't know if he meant them.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: I don't know. How did you tell him?
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 5: I told him it was over and I pulled him
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 5: in the office. And then that's when he told me
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 5: he was leaving that his days were numbered there. And so, um,
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 5: it was kind of this like crazy moment, but then honestly,
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 5: I was happy because he was like, like the, the
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 5: temptation was gone, you know?
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: Right. Um, And then did you ever, did you guys
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 2: go to counseling?
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 5: Did you ever see him again? I never saw him again.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 5: And it was the best thing that ever happened to
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 5: my marriage, Heather. It was the best thing.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: Like, because you know what?
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 5: I've been married 18 years now. So this happened maybe
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 5: around the time I was married, 10 years, that kind
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 5: of thing, eight years, nine years, 10 years. And you
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 5: know what? If people are married long enough, they either
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 5: go through some major crap. Agree.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 5: They're super lucky and they don't, or they're lying about it.
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 5: And the major crap doesn't have to.
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: Be a fair.
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 5: It could be issues with substances. It could be issues
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 5: with money. It could be lying, you know, some sort of.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 5: And so to me, I always say to my husband,
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 5: I'm like, we like basically knocked down the building back
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 5: to its studs and rebuilt it. But now I'm so
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 5: good because, and he is such a gem, my husband,
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 5: because he realized it wasn't about him. It was about me.
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 5: my affair was a coping mechanism.
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: It was a, it could have been drugs.
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 5: It could have been alcohol. I mean, I was also
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 5: taking drugs and alcohol, but you know, the day it
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 5: was just one other thing I was trying to do
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 5: to kind of cope with this unbelievable pressure to perform,
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 5: to make money constantly with that carrot dangled in your face,
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 5: to just do what you need to do, constantly making
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 5: decisions that were completely against who I was and who
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 5: I wanted to be. And it just took its toll.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: And so then when did you officially leave?
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 5: So I ended up leaving... a couple of years later because,
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 5: you know, as I said in my book, I couldn't
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 5: quit at cold Turkey. Like I couldn't quit the money
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 5: just like that. Like I really felt I needed, you know,
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 5: Goldman really does a number on you. They made me
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 5: feel like I was nothing without them. You know, in fact,
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 5: one year right after bonuses were paid and we all
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 5: made all this oodles of money, my partner handed out
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 5: bananas to all of us, littoral bananas.
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 2: Just say that you're like a little working monkey or what?
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 5: You're all monkeys in my book.
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: Ew.
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 5: And, and, and every day the bar gets higher and
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 5: every day you're earning your seat. And if you don't
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 5: earn your seat, someone else's, there's a line out the
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 5: door looking to take your spot. So I really felt
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 5: Heather that I was nothing without them. I really walked out.
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 5: Even the day I walked out, I felt like, wow,
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 5: I'll never make any money again. I'll never be successful again.
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 5: Cause they really mean now looking back, I'm like, you
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 5: know what?
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 7: Sure.
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 5: Did Goldman Sachs get me access to clients? Sure. But
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 5: I was good at what I did because of who
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 5: I was, because I was smart and I worked my
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 5: butt off and I was, you know, thoughtful and engaging
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 5: and I was great with clients. Um, So it took
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 5: me a couple of years. And then unfortunately I ended up, ironically,
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 5: that guy left and the guy who replaced me was
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 5: a real difficult one. And, um, he actually, um, was
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 5: a really bad actor and the kind of end result was,
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 5: you know, I told you all those years I looked
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 5: the other way.
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 5: Yeah. got this new boss after the guy had a
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 5: fair with left. And we were out at a client
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 5: event in public and he used a racial epithet on
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 5: a person of color outside. And I don't know, Heather,
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 5: if I had already kind of started to return to
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 5: who I was, right. I was making amends with my husband.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 5: And I think, you know, I always felt like at Goldman,
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 5: we were kind of this dysfunctional family, but all the
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 5: dirty laundry was inside. And now it was out in public.
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 5: And I said, that's it. And I called employee relations
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 5: all those years where I never said something, you know,
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 5: I mean, there's so many things we didn't cover, but
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 5: I was assaulted. I didn't say something, you know, the
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 5: woman sued. I didn't say something constantly harassed proposition. Didn't
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 5: say something. And now I said, that's it. I'm saying
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 5: something now. And I went to employee relations and they
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 5: promised me anonymity. So I told, told them what happened
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 5: because finally, you know, seeing it out in public, I
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 5: was like, this is bad. And the next day, my
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 5: partner calls me in my office and stupid Jamie thinking
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 5: he wants to talk about my latest profitability report. And
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 5: he said, I got a call that you complained against.
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 5: You made a complaint against Justin. He's like, you know,
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 5: we're a family here. You've just gone against my family.
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 5: I've taken care of you like you're my daughter and
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 5: you've gone against my family. And I don't appreciate that.
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 5: And from that point on, Heather, My reviews went down.
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 5: My compensation went down and they made my life hell.
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 5: That's when the mooing happened. That's when all that stuff happened.
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 2: And for me, it was like, I've got to get
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 2: out of here.
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 5: So at that point, I'm like, let's put a date
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 5: on it. I ended up getting pregnant and I left.
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 2: Wait, with baby number five?
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 5: Baby number four. Baby number four. Oh, so it had three.
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 5: And then they made my life miserable. I actually had
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 5: a really bad miscarriage and I say bad, like, um,
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 5: a lot of like traumatically physically, I mean, miscarriages are
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 5: always traumatic emotionally, but this one was results in a
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 5: lot of, you know, blood loss. It was like a
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 5: spontaneous abortion. Uh, they, I think that's what they call them.
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 5: And they just made my life miserable and I left
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 5: and you know what? I am so better off without
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 5: their money. and without their kind of Jedi mind effing
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 5: that they do.
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I have not read your book and
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: I'm definitely going to read it. I'm very excited for
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 2: our listeners to get it because it sounds juicy. There's
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 2: a lot, obviously, we didn't cover in this. And just
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 2: as a female pursuing a career, I think there's going
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 2: to be a lot of life lessons in there. So
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 2: where can everyone get the book?
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 5: So it's anywhere where books are sold, you know, Amazon,
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 5: your local bookstore, the big bookstores like Barnes and Noble,
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 5: you know, did you do an audio? I did. I
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 5: actually narrate it myself, which is funny because I have
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 5: this raspy nasally Jersey voice, but I cut, I, I,
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 5: I made the cut and I did it. I felt
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 5: really strongly that if I had the guts to tell
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 5: my story, I should have the guts to say it. Yeah. Right.
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 5: So yeah.
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 3: Awesome.
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 5: I think in some ways it's almost like a cautionary tale.
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 5: And I really want people to not have to sacrifice
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 5: who they are for what they do. Because that's what
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 5: I did. And I think we all deserve it. Men, women,
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 5: anyone deserve better than that.
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. Well, thank you so much. The book is Bully Market.
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: And we'll share all of it in the show notes.
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 2: and stuff too, but it was great talking to you.
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much.
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 5: I so appreciate you being interested in my story and
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 5: sharing it with your listeners.
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 1:14:26
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