Latest / The Dr. Sarah Hensley Show / Episode 36, Season 1: Why They Cheat

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Episode 36, Season 1: Why They Cheat · The Dr. Sarah Hensley Show

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Love Dog Podcast. I am your co
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: host Raina, but you're here with our lovely host, doctor
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Sarah Hensley.
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: What's up?
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: What's up today? This is going to be a good one.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: It's because it fascinates people, including me, and I know
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: you have some theories on it and some.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: Strong feelings and opinions, opinions well.
• 0:29
  Speaker 3: To some science. Some science people love the science.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: So I love the science too because it's not just
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: my opinion, you know, right, but.
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: Your opinion matters too because you have so much science
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: to back it.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think for sure, you know. I
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: mean I have experience, and I have the science, and
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: I get to see the science ever developing and ever
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: like science. If anybody says science is settled, they don't
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: understand science. Yeah, that's the antithesis of science. You know,
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: science is settled. Science is on the principle of falsifiability.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: It's like, it's true until it's not right. And so
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: that's why you have to keep up with science because
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: something that we thought was very true, we might find
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: out we had wrong assumptions and we weren't maybe measuring
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: it in the right way, or we were overlooking another
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: variable that was really causing the relationship, and we just
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: now discovered this third intervening variable. Like science is ever developing,
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: it's ever growing.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: That's so fascinating. I love it so much. I've always
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: loved science in every form.
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• 4:07
  Speaker 1: so Episode thirty six today.
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: Why they Cheat?
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I really want to start first off with
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: the science, yep, specifically, let's break down why each attachment
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: style cheats. Okay, I'll let you start with whichever one
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: you want, Okay.
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  Speaker 2: So obviously why each attachment style cheats is based on
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  Speaker 2: their attachment traumas, right, and they are all trying to
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: soothe their attachment traumas. Okay, So that is something that's
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: across the board. But what I will say is not
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: all insecurely attached people cheat. Now, so there has to
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: be another variable outside of attachment that explains why some
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: do and why some don't.
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: What do you think that is?
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  Speaker 2: I believe that that there is a variable of integrity
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  Speaker 2: in character. And I know people don't want to hear that,
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: because I have a lot of people that come across
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: my tiktoks that are like, I had an affair, and
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: you don't understand and this, and I'm like, I do understand.
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: I understand that you didn't have the integrity to not cheat, right,
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: you know, I understand that your fear of leaving the
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: relationship allowed you to engage in a behavior that was
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: destructive because you didn't have the integrity to be an
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: honest person and in the relationship and be honest about
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: your own feelings and try to confront those feelings with
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: your partner, or if you did, you were too afraid
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: of the emotions of the detachment, right.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: Or the emotions of your partner. Because I think about
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  Speaker 1: a scenario like if you are having like thoughts of cheating,
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  Speaker 1: or you're feeling this urge.
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  Speaker 3: To cheat, but you don't.
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: Instead, you go to your partner and you're like, hey,
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: you know, we've had some problems and I'm feeling this
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: urge to cheat.
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: And that's honesty and integrity.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: So say you're dealing with the really toxic partner, but
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: I know I know what your answer.
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: Is going to be.
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  Speaker 2: Then just leave, yes, and there we are for personal
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: accountability again. Right, It is always better to leave than
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: to cheat.
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it is.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: And you have to realize that the people that have
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: long term affairs, which are almost always the fearful and
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: the dismissive anxious preoccupieds, usually do not have long term
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: affairs because their conscious starts to eat them alive because
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: they're highly anxious. Right, and so let's start with the
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: anxious preoccupied. Okay, So the anxious preoccupied partner needs continual
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: reassurance and validation that they are loved in their relationship,
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: and they usually tend to be attracted to. Of course,
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: the dismissive avoidant is the one that they are most
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  Speaker 2: attracted to, or the or the FFA, who will then
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  Speaker 2: lean dismissive in opposition to the ape use anxiety, and
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: they'll stop getting that reassurance and validation, and the reassurance
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  Speaker 2: and the validation is the only thing that soothes there
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: I am not good enough wound, and that I will
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: be abandoned wound. So it's like I will be abandoned
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: until you tell me I'm not going to be and
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  Speaker 2: then that suffices for a little while until I start
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  Speaker 2: getting feeling that wound again because you're creating any kind
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: of space or there's any kind of misattaonement, and then
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: oh my gosh, you need to you need to really
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  Speaker 2: pour it on that we that I'm loved and it's
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: going to be okay.
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  Speaker 3: They their whole.
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  Speaker 2: Sense of self worth is so built around receiving love right,
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  Speaker 2: in receiving other people's approval and validation. So many anxious
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  Speaker 2: preoccupied are chameleons. Yeah, they just do not have a
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: strong sense of identity. So their identity is kind of
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  Speaker 2: constantly shifting, and their identity is able to be shifted
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  Speaker 2: very easily by others. And this is different from the
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  Speaker 2: narcissistic lack of identity. The narcissistic lack of identity, they
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  Speaker 2: had a solution to that, which was to build a
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  Speaker 2: faux identity, a fake identity to around being powerful and
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  Speaker 2: gaining power right and gaining resources over others. And they
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  Speaker 2: did that all the way up to the trade level
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  Speaker 2: of personality. Whereas the anxious preoccupied, we're still hovering at
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  Speaker 2: the more of the level of behavior coming from those
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  Speaker 2: faulty belief systems that they're not good enough and that
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  Speaker 2: they're going to be abandoned. And so it doesn't like
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  Speaker 2: they don't change their whole personality in a static way
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  Speaker 2: like the narcissist does. Their personality is sort of ever malleable,
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  Speaker 2: ever changing. Whoever they date, that's who they're going to
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  Speaker 2: be like, right, Like, if they date somebody that's an athlete,
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  Speaker 2: they're going to be like, oh, I love sports. They're
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  Speaker 2: going to date somebody that's an outdoorsman or whatever, or
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  Speaker 2: a girl that's like outdoors e they're gonna be like, oh,
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  Speaker 2: I'm gonna go hiking. I like hiking now, right, I mean,
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  Speaker 2: think about the people we know that are anxious preoccupied
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  Speaker 2: and how much of a chameleon. Yeah, and you're just like, wait,
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  Speaker 2: what who are you now?
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  Speaker 3: Right?
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  Speaker 2: And so when it's happened, so whatever, what ends up
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  Speaker 2: happening for the anxious preoccupied And again it's a they
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  Speaker 2: are the least likely to cheat because they have high anxiety, right,
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  Speaker 2: So they don't want to put themselves in situations where
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  Speaker 2: their anxiety is going to be more and they hate confrontation, right,
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  Speaker 2: and they're just live their life scared. They're anxious all
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  Speaker 2: the time, right, So sort of venturing out to do
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  Speaker 2: something that could cause their partner to abandon them is
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  Speaker 2: pretty like a low likelihood. And there is this fact
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  Speaker 2: that the anxious preoccupied person sort of is always self
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  Speaker 2: abandoning and always boundaryless and will like stay in a
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  Speaker 2: bad relationship way past the point of no return, and
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  Speaker 2: so like they will keep trying before they go out
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  Speaker 2: and cheat. The only reason I really have seen an
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  Speaker 2: anxious prayer occupied person cheat, and there's some evidence in
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: the literature for this too, is when their self worth
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  Speaker 2: is just non existent because they are getting no attunement from,
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: say they're dismissive, avoidant partner. And it's usually more spontaneous,
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: like someone is just they kind of meet someone in
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: a situation and that person just starts is like enamored
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: with them and starts love bombing them, and then they
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: kind of get sucked.
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  Speaker 3: In to the love bombing and that validation.
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  Speaker 2: And that validation, right, but usually it's pretty short lived.
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  Speaker 2: It's usually they're the least likely to have like the
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: ongoing long term affair because they can't compartmentalize, they don't
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: have any of that dissociative ability like the avoidant people do,
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  Speaker 2: so they usually end up feeling mass amounts of guilt
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: and then they kind of cut it off, right. They're
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: more likely to have like the one night stand or
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: one night affair or type situation. So the reason that
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: they cheat is when they are just in a relationship
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: where they are not getting their need for validation and
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: reassurance met and they usually just fall into a situation
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: where somebody just pours it on them when they're in
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: a pretty low state and those wounds are really on fire.
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  Speaker 2: But again, there is that little voice inside of you
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  Speaker 2: that is your conscience that for most people kicks in
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  Speaker 2: and goes no, no, no, don't follow through with that. Right,
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  Speaker 2: Like the urges may be there, the urges I think
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: are natural. I mean they're obviously from a dark spiritual place.
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  Speaker 2: But you know, we're human. We're tempted into sin. But
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: do we act on it? Do we act on it?
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  Speaker 2: That's where your integrity comes in. That's where your conscience
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  Speaker 2: comes in and either provides a stopping point or doesn't. Right,
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  Speaker 2: And so that's where I think that there is a
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: character an integrity issue in cheating, and people fight me
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  Speaker 2: on that a lot, and I'm sorry, I'm not backing down.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: I will die on that hill.
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I know that, you know.
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: For I want to talk about this specifically for the
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: people who cheat with married people. So they're single, but
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: then they cheat with someone who's married.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: I think that is a little bit of a different
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: ballgame because not that that person doesn't have any responsibility, right,
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: but they aren't the one that stood up and made
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: a vow to that other person. They didn't stand up
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: and go, you know what, I promised to love you
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: and to be faithful to you and to honor you.
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: I'm not getting I'm not leaving them off the hook.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: What I'm saying is when you made a marriage vow
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: and you are purposefully dishonoring that marriage vow, there is
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: a level of integrity that isn't there, that needs to
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: be there.
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: Well, and you know that commitment in front of God
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  Speaker 1: is big, you know. Not everybody I think always takes
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: that into account. I know that we both take that
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: very seriously.
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: And so when you go back on that vow, it's
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: about a god, it.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: Is about a God one hundred percent of out of God.
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: And you know people are going to go, what about
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: divorce and all of that, It's like, well, listen, God
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: designed marriage to be a covenant, and a covenant is
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: a promise kept by both people. So there's a lot
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: of ways to step outside of the covenant that isn't
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: just cheating, neglect, significant neglect, abuse, All of those things
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: are stepping outside of the covenant. And if you really
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: go dig into it biblically, you'll have a lot of
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: biblical scholars that will confirm that that was like, no,
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: there's some really bad people out there in this field
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: that our pastors going around saying, you know, no, the
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: only out is cheating, And I'm like, no, if you
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: really you got to get some more educated biblical scholarship
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: there that goes back and it talks about stepping out
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: of the covenant. Like the original language you know that
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: God talks about when he talks about divorce is about
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: stepping out of the covenant. And yes, cheating is the
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: biggest and most obvious way to step out of the covenant, right,
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: but so is abusing your partner or profoundly neglecting your partner,
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: which is a form of abuse.
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, So let's talk about the fearful of obit.
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: Let's do it, and why they may cheat out of spite.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: Remember their deep deep feelers very sad.
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: I don't know if I've ever thought about it that way.
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: Deep deep, deep Always they are always we just did
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: an episode on this, so go back and listen. They
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: are always viewing their partner with the most malicious intent.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: So if they're in a relationship that has degraded so
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: much that they feel like, well, my partner hates me anyway,
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: or my partner doesn't even like me anyway.
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, or my partner cheated right, or.
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: My partner does X, Y and Z bad things, I
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: should be entitled to do my bad thing, right. So
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: it's more of like a fairness fearful avoidance when it
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: comes to being heard or all about fairness. Like, the
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: reason that they low blow and conflict and say really
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: mean things is not because they want to be mean.
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: It's because they want to be seen, hurt and understood,
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: and they always feel like the playing field has to
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: be level. So it's like, if you hurt me, I
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: need to throw something out that's going to hurt you,
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: because then we're both in pain, and then we're both
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: understood and we can work it out, and it's connection,
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: which is dysfunctionary. But subconsciously, they're trying to even the
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: playing field. So they feel like their partner has put
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: them through all of these betrayals. But yet again they're
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: too afraid of the detachment and too afraid to face
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: the emotional pain, and the conscience doesn't step up and
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: stop it, so they'll cheat out of kind of more spiteful,
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: more leveling the playing field, more like, my partner don't
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: even care about me anyway, so why does it matter?
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: You know, it shouldn't matter. They don't even love me anyway,
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: or they've done X, Y and Z things to hurt me.
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: Is it always out of spite?
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: I mean I would say not. I would say there
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: maybe are some always some undertones there of like, well,
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: they hurt me, so it's okay, it's part of their justification.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: I don't think necessarily every fearful avoidant goes, you know what,
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: I'm going to have an affair because of that dude
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: or as that girl. Right again, it's get conscious, right, subconscious, Yes,
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: I think when you think about their primary need to
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: be seen, heard, and understood when they're in a relationship
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: where they have someone who is always being defensive, always
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: blame shifting, or always pushing them away and shutting them
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: down and never giving them a chance to experience their
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: biggest need of being seen, heard and understood met. When
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: you were in the beginning stages of relationships, people hold
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: space for you to feel seen, heard and understood. You know,
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: when it's new, vulnerability is a little bit It can
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: be for some fearful avoidance a little bit easier because
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: it's like, well, you know, you're not going to come
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: out of the gate being defensive or I'm not going
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: to talk to you again. Right, that's what develops well.
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: And you don't have any underlying pain yet.
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: And right, there's no underlying feelings that you've betrayed me,
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: So if you haven't yet betrayed me, it's easier for
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: me to open up to you. Fearful avoidance they are
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: the most notorious for just revealing all their secrets in
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: the beginning of a relation.
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: Of the mouth pretty much. Yeah, yeah, done that.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they are notorious for that, because when a relationship
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: is new and there's no betrayal, it feels safe to do. So,
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: it's when the betrayal or their perceptions of betrayal, whether
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: reil or perceived, start to creep in that they start
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: to shut down and go for.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: Their shares for sure, for sure, and listen, I still
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: have that, I have a share. I still overshare a
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: lot on here or with John, you know. And Josh
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: even has to stop me sometimes like well wait, wait, wait, I.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: Don't want to hear that.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, wait, wait, take a step back, think about what
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: you're about to say. Are you about to overshare with me?
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: Because I don't want to know everything right now? And
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: you know I've he's been great for that, and so
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: have y'all's reviews, So thank you.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: I know it's hard.
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: Is hard.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: Let me just say that, it's it's a hard dynamic
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: to know what to share and what to not share
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: when you're in this content space. When you are in
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: this content space that we are talking about intimacy and
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: vulnerability and personal relationships, it is very hard not to
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: have left on your own life experience. So you get
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: a pass to your life we're learning.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: I also, like I I respect and take accountability for
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: what our listeners, you know, the feedback that they give
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: us and I and I want to take accountability and
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: take that into considerations.
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: And I appreciate it just so.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: The people that are they might be confused what we're
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: talking about. A couple people left a review that Raina
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: talked about her personal life too much, okay, so.
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: And then it was sort of annoying, and.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: I was like, dang, We've gotten two reviews like in
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: a row that are like, yeah, the co host is
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: kind of annoying. And I'm like, oh, so I'm like
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: sending like that's what I said a gift to Sarah.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh, I was like, okay, let's take
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: it in maybe considerate, maybe consider how we can pivot
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: a little bit, but don't mean it. They weren't mean
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: at all, so we I.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: Mean I again, I appreciate it because I can look
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: at myself and at the same time extend myself grace
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: because I'm new, right, Like I've been doing this, you know,
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: I've been a behind the scenes person. You know, even
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: when I was working in marketing and sales in the past.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: You know, I was never the front person. I was
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: never out there putting myself you know, in front of
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: a camera, in front of audio and so I'm I'm
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: totally new at this right and I've been doing it
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: for six months.
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and so that fa over sharing trait is just
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: it's just part of who we are, you know.
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: But we love you guys, and we love you guys.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: We appreciate that shade bad. But just know that we're
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: ever learning and ever growing and we're gonna take it
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: and we're gonna pivot and we're gonna because we want
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: this experience to be good for.
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: You guys, to be valuable.
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: Wanted to be valuable, want you to go, wow, I
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: feel like I learned something, you know, and I feel
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: I feel like I grew. You know.
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: This is that you'll share it with all.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: About a growth journey, and sometimes that journey is going
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: to be messy, and sometimes it's going to be streamlined
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: and look good and but we're here for all of it.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: But we're free flow gangsters. We just kind of we
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: just go with it.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: So but anyway, Yeah, and then we'll talk about why
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: the DA cheats. This is the most fascinating. This is
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: why they're the most likely to cheat. Of all the
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: insecure styles, you would think it would be the fearful,
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: but it's not because they have too much felt empathy
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: again and anxiety and anxiety and just they have such
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: that deep like level of conscience. Yeah, you know where again,
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: if you are a deep empathizer and a deep feeler,
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: you will start to realize, oh my gosh, like if
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: they if I got caught, and like how they how
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: would they feel or what would this do to them? Right?
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: Or how would I feel about myself?
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: You know if this pans out, which is I've reflected
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: back on my marriage so much, has been cheated so much,
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: And I thought to myself the other day, I'm like,
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: I could have totally like most people would have looked
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: at me and been like, you're justified and cheating right back.
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: He cheats on you all the time. But I never did.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: I never, once ever, ever even made a hairstep towards cheating.
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: And it's just because I wasn't even married.
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: But it was just because my conscience would have eaten
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: me alive. You know. It's because he was doing it
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: to me and I didn't want to make him feel
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: that way, which was trauma bonded and messed up, but
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: at the same time also true to my integrity.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: I think well and I was just so desperate to
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: save it that I didn't anything anything it like to happen.
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: I mean, obviously I did things to make it worse.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: I mean, and I take full accountability for that, but
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: it just wasn't cheating.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we all did. But moving on to the dismissive avoidant.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: They are the most likely to cheat. Why because they
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: have this insane dissociative ability, the ability to just compartmentalize
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: emotions in a way that is so walled off. I mean,
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: it's literally like they can take their emotions and put
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: them in a sealed box and completely disconnect from them.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: And I don't even think that the fearful can. They
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: can disconnect, but for shorter periods, they can disconnect hard.
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: But for very shorter periods of time, the DA can
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: like prolong their dissociation, right, or I should say dissociation,
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: not dissociation, tongue tied dissociation. And they can literally step
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: out of their current relationship completely wall off and block
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: out the feelings and images and thoughts about that partner
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: and walk into a relationship with a new partner and
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: show up as a totally different person and then go
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: back and forth.
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: And I think that's why a lot of people think
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: they're narcissist.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: Yes, it is, and you know it is an overlapping
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: trait with narcissism and psychopathy, right, and so it's not
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: so far fetch to go. Well, that feels narcissistic, but
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: it doesn't come from this narcissistic place where like, narcissistic
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: individuals are bottomless pits, empty holes, right, where they just
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: constantly need the validation, which is something they share with
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: the ap So everybody wants to pick a specific attachment,
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: sound be like, that's the narcissist, and I'm like, listen,
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: they share from everybody, right, They picked a lot of
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: ys function from all the insecure attachments. So narcissism is
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: a totally different construct. It's a personality construct. It's way
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: farther up the chain than attachment.
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: But the dismissive avoidance does share the narcissistic ability to
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: compartmentalize and shut off their emotion. And again that does
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: overlap with some psychopathy, right, But it doesn't mean they're psychopaths.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: It doesn't mean they're narcissists. It just means that they're
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: coping tools for intimacy. The overwhelm of intimacy, because that's
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: really what happens. They get overwhelmed by intimacy and by closeness,
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: and that competes with their real, human, vulnerable need for it.
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: Remember they're still human and they still have need for it.
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: But their wounds around how unsafe it is are very big.
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: Which leads to what you've talked about before, which is
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: the high stakes partner.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: High stakes partner. So basically what happens is, let's say
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: a dismissive avoidance is married for a really long time.
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: Their spouse becomes what we call quote the high stakes partner,
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: meaning that the dismissive avoidance wounds around being close, being intimate,
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: being committed, meeting someone else's expectations are all tied to
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: that person and their subconscious. Now those wounds are interwoven
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: with their partner. So when their partner goes away, their
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: wounds start to go away and their feelings start to
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: come up. When their partner is close, the wounds are high,
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: and they will always push the feelings down into that box.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: So that's what happens for das.
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: So then low stake stakes.
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: Then the low stakes partner. And it's crazy because when
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: someone gets cheated on by a DA. They will always
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: come to me and be like, man, but you should
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: see who they cheated.
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: With, and I'm like, I don't know.
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: It's low stakes. It actually makes them feel better to
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: cheat with someone who is beneath them attractiveness wise, educationally,
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: success status wise, all of the ways, because to them
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: it's like, well, I'm not taking this seriously. This isn't
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: a real at least they always go into it with that,
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: I'm not taking this seriously. This is just And the
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: reason that they're doing it and they don't know this
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: is that it further allows them to put space between
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: them and their high stakes partner. And then it also
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: serves this ability for their real human need for vulnerability
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: to start to come out right, because again, if you
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: are a low stakes partner and you are not attached
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: to any of my wounds around expectation and commitment and
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: in conflict resolution, then I can sort of dump on
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: you and I can open up my vulnerability because those
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: wounds are what pushed back the vulnerability and keep it
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: from occurring.
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: A lot of times with these low stakes stakes partners,
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: they're not dealing with other variables like children, finances, all.
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: The stuff that makes life real. Yeah, that you have
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: to navigate that bring opportunities for conflict and for vulnerability
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: and intimacy connection, right, And so they will they will
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: be like really vulnerable with their affair partner. They will
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: literally tell their affair partner, I will never forget this
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: client I had. I will not give any identifying details.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: I had a client I will not even say if
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: they're male or female. And their spouse had a terminal illness,
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: and they also had an affair while their partner was
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: having this terminal illness, and they really struggled with like,
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: why did I do this? I'm such a bad person?
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: How could I have had an affair when my partner
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: had this illness? But at the same time, they still
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: felt very connected to a fair partner and didn't really
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: want to stop having the affair either, and they still
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: couldn't choose, like they still because what they were failing
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: to recognize was they were still in I mean they
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: were only like four months along with a fair partner,
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: so they were still in the stage of like, I
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: can be vulnerable with you, and I can tell you
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: all of these things, and they would share like all
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: the struggles of caring for their terminally ill partner and
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: all of these things, and they got connection and like
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: and they need that. It is still a human need
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: for the DA.
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: Right, You're just looking in the wrong places and I'm.
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: Just looking in the wrong places, right. And so then
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: a fair partner, you know, obviously wanted them to leave
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: the spouse. Sure, they didn't feel like they could leave
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: spouse because spouse is terminally ill. But spouse found out
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: about a fair spouse wanted to divorce. And now they
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: were stuck in this really awkward place between do I
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: try to make it work with my spouse or do
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: I just move on with this affair partner. And I
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: was like, well, both options are problematic right now, because
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: your attachment is screwing both options up around. Right. You
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: have to get into the heels and really dig in
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: your heels into the attachment, right, or you're not going
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: to be able to navigate this well at all. I said,
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: but yeah, you're really this is not of good integrity
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: and you need to have a character check here, and
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: they did, and then they were like, you're right, this
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: is I'm violating my own standards of my own integrity,
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: and that can be really painful.
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: For someone Yeah, to face for sure, which leads me to.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: Really the I think what people will want to know
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: more than anything is you know, repair and your thoughts, opinions,
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: theories ideas around repair from affairs.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: My personal opinion is that it's only possible with God
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: in the picture and with both people willing to put
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: God at the center of their relationship. I'm sorry, I've
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: never seen it work otherwise.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's still hard.
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: And it's still hard. Personally, I am at a point
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: in my life where I am so securely attached that
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: I would not stay if my partner cheated on me,
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: because I have lived a life where you are always
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: sort of wondering a little bit what they could be
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: doing behind your back, even if they've demonstrated trust and
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: all that. If you're an FA, there's always going to
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: be that part of you that'side what they're doing, what
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: they're doing, where they're gone, who they're talking to, and
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: that is just a miserable life to live. I would
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: never repeat it. And so for me personally, not amplified.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: I am just secure enough in myself that even though
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: it would be insanely painful to leave Donald if he
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: cheated on me, I would leave him. Yeah, and he
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: knows it same, which is so interesting because one of
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: his narcissistic exes like would always accuse him of cheating,
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: and he is the least likely cheater like that ma
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: and has such high integrity and such anxiety around like
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: he you know, like his attachment trauma was more people pleasing.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: He never would have cheated, and he never cheated. And
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: I know for a fact he never cheated on that person.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: And to this day, this person is still like, yeah,
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: where's that Chad haater? And he's like what, And I'm
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: just like, yeah, whatever.
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: Men, I mean, like what, Everyone has their own narrative
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: when it comes to stricity, you know. I mean, I'm
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: sure my ex could say the same thing about me,
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: but I never did.
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It's just when you deeply know someone's integrity, you're
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: just like, you know, no, there's and that's what.
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: It's why we married the man that we married, right.
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: And when I talk to people who have been cheated on,
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: they always tell me there was red flags. Yeah, there's
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: always red flags. You caught them like an Instagram model posts,
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: or you caught her chatting up dudes, or she was
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: overly flirty with people at a bar when you were
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: out one night in front of you, Dude, those are
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: the signs. There's where their integrity wasn't on point. You
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: went out with them and they were flirting with other
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: people in front of you. That's not integratis Is that
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: Is that a word that is now in that I'm
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: going to look it up, okay, doc? Is that is
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: that a word that is not of integrity? I'm just
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: gonna say of integrity?
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: There you go that.
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: You know there's a character issue there.
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was one thing that was really attracted about
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: Josh initially, was I mean, he made that clear from
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: the very beginning of it was a non.
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: Negotiable, non negotiable and.
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: He lived it. I mean he was always very trustworthy.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: Yes, And when I started dating Donald, you know, he
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: he was like, I would love to share my location
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: with you. You know, it's up to you whether you
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: want to share yours with me, But I just never
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: want you to ever be like, well where were you
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: or what were you doing? Like I just know that
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: you've been cheated on and you have those wounds, and
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: I don't want to do anything I can to like
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: to make that easier for you, and to me that
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: was He's like, and I'm not gonna lie. I'm a
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: little bit of like a protector and like if you're
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: a card word to break down or something like, I
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: would want to know where you were, right, And I
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: love that. I love sharing my location.
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: I love sharing my location with my husband too, because
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: then he knows. I mean, it's just I.
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: Never want him to ever worry, ever for one second.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: Well, and it's doing It's been about like sharing our
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: location has never even been about trust.
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: It's just been about partnership, you know.
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: It's just like we share our location because we just
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: we're just partners.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we're partners. Yeah, and why wouldn't we Yeah? And
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: that's why I just think it's so hilarious that somebody
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: wouldn't that real. Honestly, was he was just hiding to
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: try to get away from you because you were toxic
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: and abusive. If this person really wants to know what
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: the issue was, right, But you know we're all about
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: being real on this podcast, that's right, And so that
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: was the issue. But what I will say is cheating
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: is always related to attachment lens. It always is, it always,
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: always always is, and people will make the most superficial
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: excuses for chea and we just have too much science
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: to show us that that's not. People are just trying
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: to get their deepest needs met and to band aid
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: the pain of their deepest wounds, and that's why they
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: do it. And the people that follow through are the
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: people that are sort of missing the integrity chip or
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: have not built that part of themselves up and focused
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: on that part of themselves and held themselves accountable for that.
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: It can be built. We can become people who can
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: step into accountability and increase our integrity and strengthen our character.
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, don't let the attachment wounds be an excuse to
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: why you stay.
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we want to be really clear there, like saying, Okay, well.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: You know should have stayed. I'm saying, and the relationship
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: face the pain of detachment, which is what you're really
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: running from. You can't face the pain of detachment with
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: the current partners, So you cheated. And what does that say?
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: It says that you were scared of your own emotions.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: You're scared of the detachment. So what you thought you
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: could have your cake and eat it too, You can't.
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: And for the partner who stays there are no excuses
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: for the partner who stays who's been cheated on.
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: You know, you're also scared of the pain of detachment.
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: You're scared of the pain of detachment, and you're scared.
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: Cheating can be such especially if you're married and you
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: have kids and you've been cheated on. There's such a
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: life altering component to that that if I face that,
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: then my whole life blows up. And so I again
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: the defense mechanism of denial, this is one thing Sigmund
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: Ford got right, will start to kick in, and the
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: toxic hope and the denial keeps you there right because
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: you don't want to face the reality that your whole
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: life has to change. And I get that. I was there.
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: I had to face it. I remember walking into the
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: attorney's office and filing that paperwork after the last affair.
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: I know it is brutal. So I don't blame you
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: if you've stayed and tried to repair it, but you
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: have to realize that you're staying because you're afraid of
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: your own feelings and you're afraid of how your life
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: is going to change. And you know, I'm sorry, but
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: I would rather rebuild my life than always wondering what
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: someone is doing behind my back. I'm sorry, I just
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: would just try.
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: To trying to commit. You know, I talk to a
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: client one day.
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: Doesn't mean people can't repair, and it doesn't mean that
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: I won't help a couple repairs. Sure, but that's my
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: that is Sarah talking.
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: Yes, But I was talking to a client one day
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: who just she wanted to make every excuse for her
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: partner who had been in a long term affair, you know,
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: because they did, and I get it, they had young children,
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: she was she was in tremendous pain, even though she
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: was trying to pretend like she wasn't, But she actually
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: wanted to make the excuse that he was dismissive, avoidant
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: and make that her reason why she needed to stay.
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: And that's what I'm saying.
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: We want to be really clear that that's not always
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: a reason to stay.
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: But just leave before you cheat. Yeah, just leave before
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: you cheat, Face your own pain of detachment. Take accountability
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: for your own lack of boundaries in the relationship. Yeah,
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: take accountability again. You cannot change your partner. The only
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: person you can control in the equation is you. So
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: are you going to react to your partner's bad behavior
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: with more bad behavior. How does that make sense. It
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: doesn't fix anything. It band aids your pain. It's band
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: aiding your pain, and you're using another person to band
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: aid your pain. And that's not affair to your a
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: fair partner either.
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: No, no, it's not.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: And shame on them for having I mean, but here's
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: the thing. So many people get drug into affairs and
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: they don't know the person's married. Happen, Yeah, it does happen.
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: That happens a lot, and it's really sickening and really
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: big punch in the gut because the person that would
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: never have cheated with a married person, never would have
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: done that, finds themselves as the other woman or the
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: other man, and they're just they're sick over it. They're
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: sick that they could have been somebody that caused pain
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: for their partner's spouse. Right, So just don't don't do that.
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: Work on your character, work on your integrity, and take
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: accountability for not being able to face your own pain.
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: And that's why you didn't leave the relationships.
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: See God speak God.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: Only person that will actually heal that is God. Everyone
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: else is just gonna bandid it.
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you won't your tools and strategies.
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: I mean, if you you know, I feel like if
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: you're somebody who's kind of struggling in that purgatory zone
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: of like, Okay, I'm kind of feeling like I want
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: to cheat because my needs are getting mad, or yeah,
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: I haven't had affection for my partner in two years,
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: or yeah, because I know that happens a lot. A
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: lot of people come to you because they're like, my
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: partner hasn't had sex with me in two years.
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's a tough one, I mean, because yeah,
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: we sex is a normal human need, is a normal
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: human need, and so many partners will gaslight their spouse
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: into believing that sex is no longer important in the marriage.
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: That is a lie. Thumbs down.
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: No, A healthy sex life where you're having regular sex
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: and both people are enjoying it is a very good
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: sign of a healthy marriage. Your marriage is not healthy
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: if you do not have that, And I'm sorry, Okay,
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: taking a side like major health issue rise or like age,
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: like where you're like physically it's not able to happen right,
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: or stuff like that, but seek available options from your
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: doctor if those are If those are issues like seek
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: any support help whatsoever, like just.
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: And even if a libido has dropped, I think there's
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: still this level of like yearning and wanting.
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean exactly. And there are things you can
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: do to increase your libido. There are things exercise, increases
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: your exercise, especially for a while, light, sunlight, and exercise,
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: those things increase well. I know for a fact, exercise
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: and muscle building increases testosterone, which increases sextrive. A lot
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: of men have low tee. You can go practically anywhere
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: now and get medically supervised testosterone, which you know, there's
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: so much new research on hormone replacement therapy that shows
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: that it is actually not nearly as harmful as we
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: thought it was.
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: As long as you talk those.
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: Studies, yeah, of course we're talking about being supervised by
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: a competent medical provider, right, But there was so much
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: There was so much research back in the day using
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: really poor design that showed correlations and problems with hormone
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: replacement therapy for both men and for women. But what
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: we realized is that they were poorly designed studies, and
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: when we actually study these things with better designs, we
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: were able to show that those were third variable causes
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: that it wasn't actually the hormone replacement. In fact, that
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: hormone replacement can actually have a lot of benefits, and
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: there are natural options too of things that mimic different hormones.
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: So go down the rabbit hole of holistic health or
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: see a medical provider and be like, why am I
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: not physically attracted? But I would say a huge reason
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: that people aren't physically attracted it's just because their attachment
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: needs aren't getting met and you can't. It's hard to
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: want to physically connect to someone who you feel like
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: are triggering you feel like is triggering your deepest wound
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: were wounds and not meeting your biggest needs. Right, So
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: we have to investigate all avenues.
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: Right. A great place to start though, is are your services?
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah? And and you know when I say God like
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: that is that is my first personal faith opinion, right,
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: that God can do the most for you. It's not
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: that the other tools and strategies I offer can't drastically help.
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: They do, you know, not every piece of my healing
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: was God centered. There was a lot of science.
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: You had to take action.
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: I to take action.
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: You didn't just wake up and be like Okay, God,
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: I'm believing you, okay, and I'm fixed.
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: Well. God led me to tools and strategies, and he
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: gave me the confidence to pursue it, and he gave
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: me the sense that I was never alone and that
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: I was loved, and that helped me stabilized to the
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: point where I could dig deeper and utilize the tools
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: that I teach. So, you know, but for me personally,
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: I don't know if a marriage can be fully repaired
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: without God because there's always It's like breaking a vase
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: and then trying to glue it back together.
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: There's always going to be cracks.
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: And yeah, there's always going to be cracks. And I'm
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: just at a point in my life. Well, I'm sorry.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: I love Donald with all my heart and soul, but
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: if he cheated on me, and yes, I would be devastated,
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: but I would have to work through it. I would
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: have to rebuild. And I would rather rebuild my life
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: than go home every day and have a nervous system
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: that was triggered into who's he talking to, where's he going,
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: or where's he been, what's he doing. I lived that
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: for ten years and it nearly destroyed me.
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's living in constant devastation.
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: Constant I would rather just be devastated and get.
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: All from it and move on versus just living in
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: constant devastation, right.
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: And I mean, let's be real about it. Would you
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: ever really truly trust them again? That was the defining
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: question A couple's counselor asked me and my husband. She
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: looked at me and she goes, can you ever truly
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: trust him again? Even if he were to do a
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: total one eighty and act like a completely different person?
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: Are you past that point? And I said I'm past it?
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: And she was like, well, there's your answer. And I
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: remember him looking at me and I said, but I
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: want him to be happy. You know what he said
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: to me. I laughed because it doesn't hurt. It doesn't hurt,
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: but I just find it, you know, interesting. He said,
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: I don't want you to be happy, he said, I
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: want you to be miserable if you're not with me.
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: I want you to live a life of suffering if
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: you do not choose me.
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: And that's the difference between you and him.
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: And that's where it really sunk in that there was
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: like that level of narcissism there. And I was just like.
• 42:36
  Speaker 3: Dang, that's cold.
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: Uh, And that is after I'd filed for divorce, but
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: he wanted me to go to couples counseling and try
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: to save it. And then he looked at the counselor life,
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: But isn't that normal? And she was like, no, that's
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: really not. No, Like, if you love somebody, you don't
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: want them to suffer. And he's like, yeah, you do
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: if they don't choose you. What And I was like,
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: oh hell, Like I was just like, made the right decision,
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: made the right decision. But then you know, I still
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: got back together with him. How messed up was that?
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: You have to go back to listening to my life story.
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: That's a couple of episodes ago. Yeah, if you're just
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: tuning in, go to that drama. I don't feel make
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: you feel better about yourself.
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: Right, especially if you have been cheated on and you
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: haven't been able to get out, because I mean, let's
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: be honest, both you and I were cheated on multiple times.
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: It was blatant in front of our face.
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: I caught it, like I caught it in black and white,
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: as did you like actual words?
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: I caught it on a voicemail. I caught it on
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: a computer. Yeah, I caught it right in front.
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: Of my fail. Did he still lie like and say
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: it didn't happen or did he ever admit it? See
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: mine would lie to the point of like ridiculous, alight.
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: You when I caught it right in front of it
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: in front of my face? I mean, he really couldn't
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: lie about it, but it was still my fault.
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: I saw this TikTok yesterday that I've spent a good
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: twenty minutes laughing at it. In the comment section, Don
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: and I have reading it together. It was like, give
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: the most insane reason your partner said they cheated on you, Like,
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: tell me the biggest, like the most insane thing. Somebody
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: was like they accused me of making AI text messages.
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: Oh wow, Like no, you generated these text messages using AI.
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: And they're like, listen, I know what I did and
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: didn't do, Like you can't gasp me like me to
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: believing that.
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: I like, that's the ultimately like AI text crazy, that's
• 44:31
  Speaker 3: a whole new level.
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: But I mean that was the level that I was
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: dealing with. Like it did not matter what concrete proof
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: he was gonna be like it didn't happen.
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: It didn't happen.
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: It didn't happen, yeah, or do anything to get himself
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: out of it. Yeah, and then he would just be
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: mean to me. Sure, my, how crazy are you that
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: you're going through my phone? You're awful, You're terrible, Like
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: it was just like.
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: You know, and let's talk about that for just a
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: second as we wrap up, because you know, I know
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: there's probably so many of your clients that are in
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: that situation right where the really questioning like they've been
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: cheated on maybe, and then they start to question because
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: I did this.
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: I was very guilty of this.
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: I was like, well, you know, I've made mistakes, I've
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: done things wrong, and I mean I really started to
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: like almost.
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: Be like, well, I don't blame him for cheating.
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And my answer to that is, well, they could
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: have always ended things with you and been honest about
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: how I'm happy they were, and then pursue their relationship afterwards. Yeah,
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: that's my answer.
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: Because that's that's real human decency. Yes, that's being human. Yes.
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: So is there ever an excuse to cheat? No, look
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: at my face? No, no, no, yeah no yeah, And
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: is there ever a reason to accept it?
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: No, that's a big one.
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: That's a big one, because again, that's the biggest one,
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: because it's the people that have been hurt by cheating
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: that are coming to you and saying, what do I do?
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: How do I get through this?
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: God, I would leave, and I just wanted to because
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: I know the other side. You're still sitting here with
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: the unknown scariness of the other side of your life,
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: right You're still sitting here with the what if I
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: never find love, what if I can't have a good
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: relationship with my kid, and what are my kids gonna do?
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: You're sitting there on the other side of all of
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: that fear. I'm on the other side and built a
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: hell of a life. And listen, I'm saying this from
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: a place of I was scared to get a divorce
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: because I was scared it would kill my ex and
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: it did. And people look at me like, man, you
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: must be cold hearted, and I'm like, no, you don't
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: understand the abuse that I took, and ultimately, this significant
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: abuse that I took, I had to get out of
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: the abuse. I'm sorry that he used substances to the
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: point of death because he couldn't cope. I couldn't be
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: the punching bag that kept him off that ledge, and
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: so I know Bill was the best decision, even if
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: it was a decision that I can't take. I can't
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: say the divorce is completely what led to his death.
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: He had addiction issues before we got divorced, you know,
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: and his inability to cope with them was never was
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: not on me.
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, let's think about your kids for a second. So
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: you have young kids, like you did say, y'all say
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: you stay and you repair. I'm using air quotations for
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: those just listening. You repair the marriage. Do you think
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: that eventually, in some shape or form, that affair is
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: going to come out later on again, hypothetically speaking, you know,
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: maybe your children find out.
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: Yep, what does that do? What does that teach your children?
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: One?
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: It teaches them that a lot of their life was
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: a lie, and two it teaches them that, you know,
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: people can treat you like dirt and you should stay.
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: And you know, there's a reason that God gives the
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: most clear out of marriage with infidelity. There's a reason
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: He's like, hey, if this happens, like, look, you don't
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: even have to dig any further. You're free and freaking clear,
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: So do not come back at me, And this is
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: what I tell people. They're like, that's not Christian. You
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: should repair the marriage. Do not come back at me.
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: Because God gives the most clear out. He says you
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: are free to go.
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: I think that's a great way to wrap up.
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right, for you to go, right, I mean, that
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: draws the line in the sand. But we also understand
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: that if you are in the midst of dealing.
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: With it's not easy a partner who.
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: Has cheated you know, or is having an ongoing affair
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: which is extremely painful, and you're aware of it.
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: You know, you will get lots and lots of compassion
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: and empathy for me, while we also help you to
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: make a decision about what you are willing and not
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: willing to continue to tolerate, and what it may feel
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: like for you and what you would need to have
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: happen for you to feel like you could stay that marriage.
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: Because I am not everybody. Yeah, my experience is not
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: everybody's experience. You know. There are people who have one
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: affair and then they they have some growing up to
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: do and some accountability to take and some change they
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: need to make. And sometimes people can make those changes.
• 49:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there's no judgment here. I mean you've said before
• 49:21
  Speaker 3: doctor Hensley meets you where you are.
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: I'll meet you where you are if you want to
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: if you want to make it work, We'll do everything
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: you can. But I'm also not going to lie to
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: you and tell you if I think it's probably a
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: really bad idea.
• 49:31
  Speaker 3: You're not going to tell people what they just want
• 49:33
  Speaker 3: to hear.
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: No, that is not that is go to a therapist,
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: right right, No, I'm sorry, I'm not saying therapists only
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: tell you what you want to hear, but they are
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: way more likely to tell you what you want to hear,
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: and a coach is way more likely to tell you
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: what's best for you.
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: Right. I think the hallmark of your practice is how
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: direct you are, but yet very compassionate. Sure, And you know,
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: another wonderful thing that I think that you have that
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: you offer, just from personal experience, is leaving and Naviga
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: gating the justice system, which can be very scary. And
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: we know how scary that is. We know from personal
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: experience how scary it is, and that there are a
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: lot of times there aren't really great answers to that.
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: No, and I know that that's a hurdle that a
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: lot of people don't want to deal with and where
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: a lot of fear comes from. And I get that,
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: and I always say I can't give you legal advice,
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: but I always just the way that I get around
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: that is I'm like, I will tell you what I
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: feel like I did and should have done differently. Yeah,
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: that's what I can tell you, and that's just personal experience,
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: And that's just my personal experience and opinion. And so
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: like if I because I basically had to redo my
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: divorce twice, I did it really quick, and I did
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: not protect myself at all in that divorce, and then
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: when things started getting much worse post death gasp, I
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: call it the death gap where you know, I feel
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: like everybody kind of has a death gas right where
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: you like, you try one last time and then it
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: usually blows up way worse and shows you like, no,
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: the breakup was the right answer. You know, there's so
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: much fear of like what's going to happen in the
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: justice system, But listen, you have to realize that sometimes
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: that's a necessary part of it, so that you aren't
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: a shell of human right because it might get a
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: little worse for it gets But I'm just again. I'm
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: at the place where I will never ever again want
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: to live with the tiniest bit of what if. Right,
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: I'm not there, I'm not I'd rather live alone.
• 51:32
  Speaker 3: Right, And walking through the pain is I'm not willing.
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: I'm not willing to walk through that pain again. Yeah, yeah,
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: because and that's not because I'm saying through.
• 51:42
  Speaker 3: The pain to the other side.
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's the pain. I'd be willing to walk
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: through the pain of navigating family court, the pain of
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: navigating uh shared parenting, the pain of navigating rebuilding my finances.
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: I would do that all again over the pain of
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: continually wondering what someone is doing behind my back any
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: day of the week.
• 52:00
  Speaker 3: Agreed.
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: I'm right there with your sister. And so if you
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: are trying to navigate what to do, I mean, you
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: know our answer. But it doesn't mean that you can't
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: come to doctor Hensley.
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: It doesn't mean I'm gonna judge you if you want
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: to repair, and I will give you the best advice
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: on how to repair. That's right, which means that basically
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: that person is going to have to meet your demands
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: of what you would need to feel safe for as
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: long as you need them, Right, and if they can't,
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: I mean because usually what ends up happening is that
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: the partner that cheated gets tired of having to prove
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: their integrity, improve their honesty, so they start acting out. Yeah,
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: after a while, they're like, oh, you're still you still
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: can't get over this, after all this time, you still can't.
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: You still can't trust me, you still can't believe me.
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: And a lot of times it takes the sin. The
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: science shows it takes two full years to trust some
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: of consistent behavior, to trust someone after they've betrayed you. Yeah,
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: And usually after six months in the partner that's cheated
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: is just sick of it. Yeah, they're sick of having
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: someone go through their phone, they're sick of someone they're
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: sick of being questioned, they're sick of someone thinking the
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: worst of them.
• 53:06
  Speaker 3: The constantly feeling like they have to be on the defense.
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: Right, sick of feeling like they were the one that
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: screwed up. And they're just crawling their way out of
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: that hole of having screwed up. And that's where it
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: goes to hell.
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that that's a really important point
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: to make. You know, if repair is happening, like if
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: you're in the midst of repair. Both partners need to
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: understand that timeline.
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: M hm.
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: You know, because accountability isn't something you know from maybe
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: the partner who cheated. It's not just something that they
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: can be like, Okay, well I did this and I'm
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: really really sorry, and then six months later everything's okay.
• 53:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, No, it's not.
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: It doesn't work that way. The human brain is not
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: wired to forgive that quickly, and maybe to forgive, but
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: not to forget and trust. I should say, yes, we
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: can forgive, but forgetting. No, the brain is going to
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: be hyper vigilant towards that for a long time. Again,
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: it takes two years, and that's in the science two
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: years of consistent behavior. So if you've cheated on your
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: partner and you're in this whole, oh poor me, I
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: still have to prove myself. When are they ever gonna
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: trust me again? You know? Victim hood? Two years, says Bruh.
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: Two years.
• 54:11
  Speaker 3: There you go.
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: So we've had some answers here for you today. We
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: hope that this has been valuable. I think it is
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: extremely valuable. Please go check out doctor Hinsley's services at
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: the Datingdecoder dot com and we have a special promo
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: code for our listeners. It's love Doc twenty seven.
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: At twenty seven is our magic number, magic.
• 54:30
  Speaker 3: Number, And I love that thing you sent me. Yeah,
• 54:33
  Speaker 3: so I went down because we've always been like, what's
• 54:35
  Speaker 3: this twenty seven? Like we see it all the time.
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: You see it, mean like four or five times a day.
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: Every time I look at the clock, it's like four
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: twenty seven, twenty seven, eleven twenty seven, right, And so
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: Donald really thinks it's like the exposure effect, like when
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: you're looking for it, you'll find it, right, And I'm like, no,
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: I think there's something more because Raina sees it too,
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: and then we text you all it before even yes,
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: and your birthdays on the twenty seven my late ex
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: husband or how to where I ex late husband, I
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: don't know how to say it. His birthday was on
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: the twenty seventh. Then there, I do think that there's
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: some little bit of because again, the way I try
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: to tell people I view this situation is like I
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: forgive him, and I think he forgives me, and I
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: think he supports me and talking about these things because
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: he's in heaven, he has no pain, he doesn't care.
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: I think he just wants he wants the growth to
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: come out of it. He wants he's up there with
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: God's highest good and so he can see that there's
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: a higher good coming from this. He's not bothered by
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: the fact that I'm talking about him, because he's in
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: no pain. He's in glory, he's glorified.
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: People can be touched and healed by his experiences, right,
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: all allow him to move on, live on.
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: I want his pain to be a source of healing
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: for others, right, And I'm not ever trying to throw
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: him under the bus. I'm trying to say that he
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: was so hurt and that he did these hurtful things
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: because he was so hurt, that's right, And he hurt
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: me terribly, but I grew and created something really great
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: that has helped me help others.
• 56:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: So really he's the catalyst of all of this healings.
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: And so I thank him, and I'm I cannot wait
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: to see him in heaven someday and to just have
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: a reunion and to say thank you for the lessons
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: and I forgive you. And there is no marriage in heaven,
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: which I think is hard because I'm like, I want
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: to still be with Donald, right, but maybe one day
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: we'll just like all be cool out there.
• 56:26
  Speaker 3: Childre you know, absolutely and all your glory.
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: And so twenty seven was his favorite magic number. Twenty
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: seven is your birthday, it's you know, and then it
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: shows up and shows up. And so I was kind of,
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: you know, and I don't know, AI could be the
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: mark of the beast. I don't know, but I was
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: kind of me and chat GPT We're having a little conversation,
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: and I was just giving it some information. I said,
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: we see this number everywhere. Here's kind of what we do.
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: Here's the significance it holds. What could it be related
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: to God? There's twenty seven books of the New Testament
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: focused on Christ and his teaching the life of Christ,
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: the life of Christ, the lessons of Christ. And that
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: is what I've always said I want my foundations to be.
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: Is forgiveness is healing from bitterness.
• 57:08
  Speaker 3: The life is Christ right, the way Christ lives.
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: And if you are moving on from a cheating partner,
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: you still have to forgive them. If you stay or
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: you go, you still have to forgive. You don't have
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: to forget, you don't have to not have boundaries, but
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: you have to forgive or you're never going to be
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: able to move on well with the next one. So
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: twenty seven is sort of like Christ's consciousness.
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's and then we always try, you know, whenever
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: we acknowledge it and text each other, we just we just.
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: Say gratitude, prayer.
• 57:34
  Speaker 3: We're just thankful. We're just so grateful. We're so grateful.
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: For each and every one of you and for what
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: we get to do. And so we want to extend
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: that gratitude. And so you can use that code at
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• 57:46
  Speaker 2: Off, which is a huge deal.
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it is any of doctor Hensley's services. And I mean, really, guys,
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: we're well into the new year now, it's there's no
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: better time to get on this journey to heal. If
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: you are healing from even you know, a past relationship
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: where you were cheated on and you're still dealing with
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: the pain of that, you know, there's so much that
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: doctor program offers that you.
• 58:13
  Speaker 3: Can in terms of that, and so check it out. Yeah,
• 58:19
  Speaker 3: check it out for listening.
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: Yes, and we again are just if you're if you're
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: recovering from being cheated on, or you have shame because
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: you cheated, I have compassion and love for you. You know
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: you don't know what you don't know about yourself until
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: you do know, so let's discover it together.
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: That's right, So please go check out doctor Hansley services
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: at the Dating dcoder dot com. You just love doc
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: twenty seven and checkout for twenty seven percent off And
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: until next time, peace, love and perspective