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The Cunning Farmer with Todd Elliot · The Occult Rejects

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: You see, something's going to happen. What's going to happen?
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: What I.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: Welcome back to the occult rejects. For most of human history,
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: magic wasn't necessarily something separated from ordinary life. It wasn't
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: confined to a temple, a lodge room, a circle drawn
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: on the floor, or a book of spells. Sometimes it
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: was happening in the field, because long before agriculture became
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: an industry, the people responsible for keeping a community alive
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: were watching the heavens, reading the seasons, planting according to
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: cycles of the sun and moon, making offerings to gods
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: and spirits, petitioning for rain, protecting livestock, blessing crops, honoring
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: the dead, and work working with a landscape they didn't
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: necessarily believe was dead.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: Matter.
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: The land was alive, the forest was inhabited, the planets mattered,
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: the weather had powers behind it, and putting a seed
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: into the ground could be both an agricultural act and
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: a sacred one. So somewhere along the way, we created
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: a division that may not have existed for many of
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: the people who came before us. We separated the farmer
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: from the magician, and today's guest has spent decades putting
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: those worlds back together. Todd Elliott is a working farmer, earthworker,
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: reiki master, druid, and certified estrological magician. He's a lifelong
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: student of mythology, folklore, religion, spirituality, and Western esotericism. And
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: he lives and works on a small farm in north
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: central Kentucky where the ideas we're going to discuss aren't
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: confined to books. They're tested against seasons, animals, plants, weather, soil,
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: and the realities of actually working the land. His new
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: book is The Cunning Farmer Agrarian Practices, Mythology and Folklore,
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: And this thing goes deep. We're talking cunning folk land spirits,
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: the genius loci, lunar and astrological magic, hermeticism, neoplatonism, weather magic,
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: sacred landscapes, plant spirits, agricultural ritual, entheogenic and baneful plants,
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: the underworld, and the possibilities that what our ancestors called
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: farming may have involved in an entire relationship with the visible
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: and invisible world that modern agriculture has largely forgotten. But
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: beneath all that is a much larger question what happens
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: when we stop treating the earth as an object and
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: begin treating it as something we are in a relationship with.
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: And if the old farmer, planted by the heavens, spoke
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: to the land, petitioned spirits, honored the dead, worked with plants,
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: watched the moon, and participated in cycles of death, fertility,
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: and rebirth, where exactly did farming end and magic begin?
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: Today we got Todd with us, and Todd, thank you
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: so much for coming on the show. Please let everybody
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: know anything I may have left out or anything you
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: want to promote.
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: No, Nick, that was fantastic. Thank you for having me
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: on the show. I'm honored to be here. And that
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: was that was really good.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, at least when I go to put it
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: on an audio, well, I'll fix the screw ups and
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: edit it so sound.
• 3:17
  Speaker 4: Sounds great, great summer.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you. Yeah.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: So it's just us, so obviously when I can be
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: wasting a few minutes listening to other people's intros, so
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: I guess you know, we're just going to get right
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: into it, like I do with every other guest.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: And I even explained that to you before the show.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: I always like to ask people how they even found
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: themselves getting into this lifestyle. Into the occult, witchcraft, alchemy,
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: whatever you want to call it. So, Todd, how did you, uh,
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: how did you find yourself getting into this life?
• 3:47
  Speaker 4: Well?
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: I was as a child, I was always interested in
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: like the spooky, you know, like ghosts, and I loved
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: Halloween was my favorite holiday.
• 3:55
  Speaker 4: Uh, And I don't know.
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: And I got got a little older, I found myself
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: in the I'm a gen xer and we had malls
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: in the suburbs back in the day, and we had
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: a book speed out in bookstore, and it had the
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: occult section and there was like Francis Barrett and Alistair
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: Crowley and you know, Modern Magic by Donald Michael Craig
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: and all that stuff. And I just gravitated towards that
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: and started reading that kind of thing, and you know,
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: it kind of it. I got into it in my
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: early twenties. And then I moved to Kentucky and there's
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: nobody here who's into that. So I just kind of
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: kept studying on my own. And I really got back
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: into it in twenty nineteen and started, you know, you
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: kind of get into spirituality as you get into middle
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: age or whatever. And I got back I decided to
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: pick that thread that I put down, you know, to
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: become a hard working farmer and pick it back up
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: again and see where it led me. So it led
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: me to write in this book, and it led me
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: into having a daily practice and a seasonal practice and
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: working with the land, the land here and the crops
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: here that that I make my living from. Oh you're muted.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: Can you hear me now? Yes? All right, yeah, I
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: pressed the wrong button. I muted myself. Uh, no problem. WHOA,
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: that was some loud thunder.
• 5:25
  Speaker 4: I'm glad you're getting some rain o jo.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: It's crazy out here right now, I thorted about a
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: half hour ago. I heard it over my headphones. I
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: was listening to techno music loud and I and I
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: even I even heard the thunder over that, like it
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: was even louder than the base.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah that's right. I sweat. I was like, that's not
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: in there. I know that isn't right.
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you know, this is the same thing for me.
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: I was very big into the paranormal and I guess,
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: you know, even aliens. My mom believed in ghosts when
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: I was younger. So that was like a thing that
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: was you know, I.
• 5:56
  Speaker 4: Had it or not.
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: Book. Well, I'm fifty. I'm gonna be fifty four a
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: month or so. And I had that book, that classic
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: alien book. It was it was awesome. I'd like to
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: see it again.
• 6:10
  Speaker 4: Yeah, read that.
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: It's real.
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: I remember even, like you know, and I even saw
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: a poet. Who knows how true it is that supposedly
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: they're saying that a lot of kids that were really
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: big into which way books. I don't know if you
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: remember those where you had like choose your own way
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: where you'd read apart oh yeah, yeah, yeah, a lot
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: of kids that were into that, which I was huge into,
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: and they were always kind of like weird or maybe
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: a little bit dark too.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: Sometimes.
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: They said a lot of people who were into that
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: as a child ended up kind of getting into the
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: occult as an adult. Sure, I don't know how they
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: got that information, but I mean, if it's true, that's interesting.
• 6:41
  Speaker 4: Dragons and stuff.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, real real quick. I've mentioned it on
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: the show before, even dungeons and dragons, you know, and
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: this is even like you know, I even wonder because
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: there's certain things that even happened around my life that
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: even made it seem so I guess magical or cult,
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: even if it was in a negative sense. There was
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: a kid who lived down the corner of the block
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: from me at the my block in Ronkonkom. But people
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: can even look it up ron Conkoam a kid kills
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: parents over dungeons and dragons. Yeah, he killed I think
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: maybe it might eve been like his parents or one
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: parent in somebody.
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: He killed them.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: And then you know, I can't even you can't even
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: make this up two or three years later because their
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: house was on a corner and there was a light
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: there or something, somebody went through their house and killed
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: the rest of the people. It was just like what Yeah,
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: but like even that happening as I'm a kid and
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: being told like all the dungeons and dragons, yeah, or
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: how did the house get hit with? You know, so
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: even all that opens up this whole like, you know,
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: weird shit for a kid.
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: I was enough of a nerd to go to D
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: and D Camp. It was like overnight camp for a
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: week where really massive venture. Yeah. I think I went
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: two summers and then it got canceled because all the
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: bad shit.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: But I'm yeah, but I'm sure nobody killed their parents
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: after they left that camp though. No, no, no, that's
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: what I'm getting Yeah.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: People have been killed for spade games. I'm saying, ye, Je,
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: we're not.
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: Freak out after after this? Crazy people to freak out
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: after playing video games?
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, exactly exactly.
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: But yeah, probably because we're close to the same age,
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: or probably we're even exposed to the same stuff back
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: in the day.
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: Probably.
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: Now, one thing I did want to ask, and I
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: don't know if you kind of said it in your
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: introduction or how you were just saying you got into
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: stuff now, but like, what did come first? Was it
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: the farming or the occult?
• 8:39
  Speaker 4: Definitely not the farming, Okay, I was, I mean I was.
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: I wasn't nature oriented kid though, Like I spent some
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: of my childhood in New Jersey, in North Jersey and
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: at that time in the late seventies, and like it
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: was I was there in the late seventies. It was
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: pretty rural where we were. It was probably an hour
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: from New York City, but it was you know, we
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: lived in the city when I was a little little,
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: but we moved out when I was like four or five,
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: and I spent a couple of years in there, and
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: I remember wandering the woods and wandering like there's a
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: cemetery nearby and wandering through there. And then when I
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: moved to Pennsylvania, I was always catching insects, playing in
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: the woods, catching snakes, playing in the creek. I was
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: very into into nature as a child as well, So
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: I don't know that was that was the you know,
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: the germ of being a.
• 9:28
  Speaker 4: Farmer right there.
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: Nice.
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Like I like plants. I like to grow plants,
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: you know. I moved to Kentucky just to get out
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: of the city and my friends and I didn't really
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: have anything going for me there, and I'd been down
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: here to visit Kentucky with my girlfriend's family. Family friends
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: had a place down in southern Kentucky where I lived
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: for a while, and we stayed down Before I lived there,
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: we stayed down there for the summer and it was
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: just amazing, just paradise, just this place on the wood
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: on the Cumberland River and they have a you know,
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: the Cumon River is a beautiful cold water river, and
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: they had a place where you could go swimming in
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: the river, and they lived in hand built houses and
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: had organic gardens and it just looked like heaven to me.
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: So the next year I was like, I'm going back there,
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: and I moved back there in at nineteen ninety six,
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: and I've been here ever since. And eventually, I always say,
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: you've got to make a living. It's the first thing.
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: You've got to figure out how to make a living,
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: you know, THROW said he wanted to. He moved to
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: the cabin there on the woods to front the essential
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: facts of life. One of the essential facts of life
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: is that you have to make a living. So I
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: ended up started working for farmers and organic, organic vegetable farmers,
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: tobacco farmers, you know, all kinds of farm Yeah, and
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: then I learned how to work pretty hard, and I
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: on my own place. I grew a real big garden,
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: organic garden, hauled in all kinds of composts, and learned
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: how to grow plants, and you know, the rest is history. Nice,
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: but so so I was always interested in like the
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: esoteric angle of the plants too. You know, I worked,
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: I worked with tobacco, which is a sacred plant. So
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: I kind of kind of thought that was cool.
• 11:15
  Speaker 4: I was.
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: I was always growing. I was in ethnobotany. I grow
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: every kind of weird plant that might or might not
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: possibly give you a buzz. Yeah, I had I had
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: the weirdest shaman's garden. We my partner and I had
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: like twenty acres and it was nothing but a hillside
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: overlooking a river, the river, and like we had carved
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: out a little clearing, like a little like witch's cottage
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: in the woods with like weird entheogenic plants on stuff. Yeah.
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: I mean it was like it was a cool little
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: life we'd had there. But you got to make a living.
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: You can't stay it, you can't live like that. So
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: we ended up getting a farm and I got into
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: farming and got a tractor and all.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: That stuff as well. You got attracted everything. I love it. Yeah,
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: before he was talking about working on the tractor before
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: the show Slaughter, that was like that's aesome.
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I've been on this week.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's interesting. And even said that I guess
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: we are with the tobacco. I mean, you get a
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: lot of the indigenous and I mean that.
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: I've even wondered if because I have seen that they
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: think there's studies where they do say that nicotine or
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: smoking can actually kind of help keep you concentrated.
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I've heard it that improves improves room. I
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: don't smoke anymore. I ruined my lofe tobacco, but I do.
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: I grew like two hundred tobacco plants, and I think
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: it's cool. We cut it the other day, like the
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: way they cut it here, and we hang it in
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: the bar, and I use it for like for incense, right,
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: for for like incense, for offerings, for like smoke offerings,
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: or I just like crumble some up when I harvest herbs,
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: or leave some at the at the foot of my
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: you know. I take it out to the garden when
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: I go to play it for the crops and stuff.
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: It's handy to have around it, and I feel like
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: I feel like growing at myself. I have a connection
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: to the to the plant or the spirit of the plant,
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: and I don't. I have a relationship with it. So
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: as an offering, it sort of means a little more
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: then just just buying some I was. I've been revisiting
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: some of the classics on audible. I've been, you know,
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: listened to audio books, right and I got I got
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: the Modern Magic Audible, like I said a minute ago,
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: that was one of the books I got my start
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: to start with or whatever.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: Yes, the first books I got, ye.
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: I've been revisiting it.
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: And he went on.
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: He went he talks quite at length about tobacco and
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: how it's a mar, a plant of mars, and you know,
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: how how you should be using natural tobacco if possible,
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: as a as a mark, you know, as an incense
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: for mars. You don't want to use just crumple up
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: a cigarette and you want to grow, you want to
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: have the real stuff. And I was like, cool, maybe
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: that's what I learned that that long ago and took
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: it to heart.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: Nice. Yeah, I like that.
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: Uh yeah, even the even with the thing with tobacco,
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: like you know, I even do you know, I find
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: that they may not know, you know, I think this way,
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: and I find it interesting with this, especially the Native
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: American and even like I'll use something. I think it
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: was the Greeks that were doing for an example, you know,
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: with the whole tobacco, you know, besides other reasons, why
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: did they know that it helped with attention? Because like
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: the Greeks used to use laurel, they wrap laurel around
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: their heads and use that when they were taking tests
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: in school or university whatever they called it, because they
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: thought it helped with concentration. Now they've actually can show
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: you with science that it actually goes, you know. So
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: I'm wondering if, like the tobacco like it, if they thought,
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: like I could see how maybe like if you're trying
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: to get to a certain point or a certain thought,
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: maybe puffing on that while you're trying to get into
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: some meditative state can actually help you.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: Focus on that one point you're going for.
• 14:54
  Speaker 4: Well, maybe they do.
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: The tobacco that was smoked by the tobacco that was
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: smoked by Native Americans in North America and in much
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: of essentral in South America was Nikostiana rustica, which is
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: a smaller and we grow that here on the farm too.
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: It's a little less predictable because it's wilder, you know,
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: its name kind of means wild tobacco, and the leaves
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: are not gonna be any bigger than this, and often
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: much smaller. But it has considerably more nicotine than the
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: regular tobacco, than nikoshi on tobacco and the commercial tobacco,
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: like maybe up to ten percent. I'm just weighing these
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: numbers out there, whereas the regular tobacco is one to
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: three percent and this stuff is up to ten perhaps
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: twenty percent nicotine. It's pretty toxic and it'll ring your
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: bell if you take more to take a hit of it.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: It's funny.
• 15:43
  Speaker 4: I've had go ahead, go ahead, No, I've had shamans.
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: Oh, go ahead.
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: I've had notice when you were saying that about too
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: much tobacco, you know, too much nicotine, I've had, like
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: I hate to admit it, you know, when I used
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: to vape, I've actually had like issues and like ended
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: up getting like you know, fluid or like the l
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: would actually like on your lips, like something went wrong
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: with the machine and you don't realize, like if you
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: saw getting that in your mouth, you're actually like basically
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: eating tobacco.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: And I've had it to.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: Where I was like, oh, I think I just like
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: it just did too much feel Yeah, yeah, you actually
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: almost feel like you're buzzing for a little bit. So
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: when you ring and I was like, oh, I think
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: I know what you mean.
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: These shamans would like hyperventilate it. They would drink tobacco juice.
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: They would get and getting sick and vomiting profusely. And
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: it was part of the thing because they would they
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: would take in South America and I believe in North
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: America as well, they would take fairly toxic doses of tobacco,
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: but they would black out and go on visionary journeys.
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: It's highly hallucinogenic.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: See, I was just gonna ask that, do you think, wow,
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: that's also that you said that with the tobacco. Besides
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: the tobacco, do you think there's other stuff, in your opinion,
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: that shamans would use to actually knock themselves out, Like yeah, yeah,
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: like you like even some of the ones, Like there's
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: been times where I've looked at certain you know, old
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: spells and they'll have the is like you know, bella Donna,
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: like certain things in them.
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Like, and.
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: I was like, it's not just to be like a
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: slight poison kind of like not to kill you, but
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: to kind of take you out and give you some
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: sort of wild life after death experience or close to
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: the edge.
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: Well, the plants that, like you mentioned belladonna from the
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: night Shade family are used for shamanic by shamans and
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: all over the world, and they are pretty toxic. I mean,
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: tobacco's in the night chad family for one, but there's
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: also henbane and like you mentioned, belladonna. There's also the toura.
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: There's man drake.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: Plan is part of the night shade too, isn't it.
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: Actually, you know, on our farm, On our farm, I
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: have away with the knight shade family. I grow nice tobacco.
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: I grew good tomatoes. I grew good potatoes, I grew peppers,
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: and I grow good eggplants. I go good to touras.
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: We have ten foot tall tours I grow brougmansias. You know,
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: we we get along pretty well with the night shade
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: family around here. Yeah. But the but the the more
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: poisonous ones have what we call it what are called
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: tropine alcoholism scopolamine atropy, and those are really potent, like
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: deliriate hallucinogens, and they they can be deadly. So I
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: don't really recommend anybody using them. But but people that
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: know what they're doing in like indigenous traditions, do use them,
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: I'm sure, very carefully to you know, get out of
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: get out of theirselves and get out of their get
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: out of their minds. And I think it's it's a
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: very close to death kind of kind of state, and
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: you're you're walking right along the edge of a highly
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: toxic dose but we we do grow a lot of
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: those plants here because I like them. I like their vibe.
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: Like right outside my window here here, I wish I
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: could show it to you. I have a whole row
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: like six Brugmansia trees and underneath them or detura plants
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: and belladonnas and henbanes and tobacco. Right is outside my window.
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: I've got a little shaman's garden. Uh, it's gorgeous.
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I like to and pretty plants.
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: Huh.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: I like datura. Those are nice plants.
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I've got Well, the Brigmondsi is like a it's
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: a it's a tour that is sort of more like
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: a tree, a tropical tree, and the flowers hang down
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: and they're really highly perfumed, and they like they open
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: up at night and they'll be like hundreds of them
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: open at night outside of my window here in the summertime,
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: in the fall.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: That is cool.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, another question I wanted to ask you, kind
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: of just going forward a little bit. Uh, was there
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: ever a moment where you kind of started to like
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: see like I guess where it clicked where you're like,
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm gonna start using those with farming like
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: where did you remember like was there or was it
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: just you kind of found yourself there or was there
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: like something that you remember that like was like hmmm.
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: I think it's pretty natural when you're farming to be
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: like religious or maybe even some people might say superstitious,
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: or you know, like people that play sports they start
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: to put on they're like they're like lucky shirt, they're
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: lucky jersey, or they're lucky like I don't know what,
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: you're lucky underwear or something like your lucky socks.
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: But it's like that with farming.
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: You're like, you're like, you know, last time I did this,
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: I really needed to rain and it did, so I'm
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: gonna do it again.
• 20:17
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: So there's this sort of magical mentality that's natural to
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: people in general, but with farming, it really.
• 20:26
  Speaker 4: The rain.
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: The rain is so hit or miss, and you can
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: see why farmers have turned to higher powers in order to,
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: you know, to appease and propitiate the higher powers, the
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: powers of nature, because you have so much riding on
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: the success of a crop. I mean for us, it's
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: like our cash crops, you know, we pay the bills
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: with it. We could probably we buy some of our food.
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: With the grocery. We raise a lot of our food,
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: but we're not subsistence farmers. But back in the day,
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: if you didn't get a good crop, you wouldn't need
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: you'd start, you wouldn't get through the winter, you know,
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: And we might go back to that. I don't know,
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: but it seems like it's a natural fit to say
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: some extra prayers or do some rituals, or try to
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: do some magic to secure a good crop, you know,
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: beyond wearing your lucky shirt that makes it rain. I
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: have that too, but you know, but it is so
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: that's how I started out. I would just you know,
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: one year we had a really bad drought and I
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: had this book. I didn't have a copy of the
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: PGM at the time, but I had this book called
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: the Mysteries, which had a quotation from one of the
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: prayers from the PGM. I think it's the spell to
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: Helios for all purposes anyway, I could look it up
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: for you, but it didn't have any of any of
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: the barberous names in it.
• 21:49
  Speaker 4: It was just text.
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: And I went out to the field and mentioned like
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: mentioning he who brings rain, he who makes hurricanes, and
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: I went out to the field and it were dire
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: need for rain, and I would like grab two corn
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: stalks and just pray this, pray this prayer for rain
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: as hard as I could. And you know, we got
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: a little bit of rain after that. And but it's
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: that kind of thing. And I would go down to
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: the oak trees on my farm and leave offerings of
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: corn at the base of these springs where the oak
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: trees grow. There would be a spring that came out
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: of the ground and it would it ran dry, but
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: I would leave my offerings at this spring underneath an
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: oak tree so it would rain, you know, because I
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: would think, you know, the oak tree is connected with Zeus,
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: it's connected with four, it's connected with all these thunder
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: and lightning gods. And I leave my offerings there for
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: the thunder and lightning gods to make it to bring
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: the rain, because that's where that's where you connect with them,
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: that's the thin place. And I still do that. I
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: have an oak tree on this farm where I do
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: the same thing, leave my offerings every Thursday.
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: Oh nice, Yeah, yeah, I don't know, I get that. No,
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: it makes a lot of sense. Uh what did was
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: there ever times where.
• 22:56
  Speaker 4: It's just natural thing.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I know, I get what you're saying.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: With that, it makes little sense how that would just
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: become kind of it's very yeah, I mean even kind
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: of looking at the Farmer's Almanac, I mean technically it's
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: the kind of based off of astrology in a sense.
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: Absolutely.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: So, I mean you're so that stuff actually is very
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: closely tied to farming. I could see how just certain
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: even ideas or behaviors, it's just kind of very close
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: to each other.
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: I've been reading James Fraser's The Golden Bought since I
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: was like nineteen years old, and I almost use it
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: like a grimoire, you know, rather than a work of
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: like outdated sort of colonialist anthropology. It is more like
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: an excellent source of lore and like weather magic from
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: around the world and from sources that have been lost
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: to history from classics. James Fraser was a classicist and
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: an anthropologist. He was fluent in all the ancient languages,
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: you know, and he translated off of its fasty.
• 24:02
  Speaker 4: He but the Golden Bough.
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: So I would read that and I'd be like, what
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: do I do when it doesn't rain? You know? Well,
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: he said, here's some rituals from around the world you
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: can you can try. That's probably where I got That's
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: definitely where I got the oak tree idea.
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: Oh wow, Okay, now, uh have you ever.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: Have you like has has your look on magic maybe
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: possibly changed due to uh, I guess the farming and
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: vice versa, like has maybe like maybe farming changed a
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: little bit from you from looking at magic, like have
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: they influenced over the over the time.
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: Or I think what I do, like as a practical
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: magician is a lot as oftentimes concerned with farming, you know,
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: as a I do sometimes I've asked like angels and
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: elementals to help me with different with the different aspects
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: of the crop. And I also work with I do
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: a lot of devotional practice to deities as well to
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: help with the crops and the animals. Yeah, so I
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: mean that the farming has definitely influenced my magical practice
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: for sure, definitely for the better. And I have I
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: also have access to all kinds of cool material magica
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: because I live on the farm. You know, I get
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: snake skins and dead toads and owl feathers and crazy
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: stuff like that just from being on the farm. And
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: I grow all kinds of interesting herbs, so they definitely
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: I grow, you know, Saint John's wart, which is a
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: very potent magical herb, mug wart. We have all access
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: to all kinds of great materials here, so it's definitely
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: helped my magical practice being in the middle of all
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: this natural stuff. And I think, I think performing rituals
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: outside whenever possible is also an excellent practice because strange
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: things happen when you perform rituals outside. You know, nature
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: answers you back and you get you get epiphanies, manifestations,
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: and some of the old grimoires say that that it's
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: best to do it's best to do you know, ceremonial
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: work outside. I forget which ones which ones said that,
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: but you get you get like winds arise, you know,
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: phenomena that happens can alert you to the arrival of
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: spiritual presences, which is pretty helpful outside.
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I have heard there's a there's a big difference
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: with doing it outside. I've heard it being suggested even
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: by other people recently on the show.
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's pretty cool.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I've never I don't know if I've ever done
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: anything outside.
• 26:39
  Speaker 4: Actually, I wouldn't you know.
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: I don't know if I would have the courage to
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: do it if I didn't have private land, you know,
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: And even so i'd kind of be chicken if I
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: always had to do it.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think i'd be I think i'd be nervous, yeah,
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: to do it out and put.
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: Like, yeah, I try to be discreet even here. Yeah.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because like even like for a major part of
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: public like my more serious like taking you know, actually
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: really practicing physically, I was probably like neithering. I was
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: in like the boroughs put it that way, Like I
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: think Queen's for most of that.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: And it's just like you, you know, how it is
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: out there.
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: How far is your neighbor you know what I'm saying, Like,
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: you do that shit outside odds of somebody's eventually going
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: to see if you do it.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: A few times and then the people we're talking about you.
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: I had a friend in Philly that would have like
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: magic parties and do rich He lived in the basement
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: apartment and like an apartment building, you know, like a
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: four or five story apartment building. I don't know how
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: many stories it was, but he was in the basement
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: apartment and he would do these crazy magic parties, and
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: I don't know why he never got busted. People be
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: smoking all kinds of weird stuff and you know, barbarous
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: words of avocation and whatnot, and I don't know what.
• 27:54
  Speaker 4: I kind of imagine that.
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: I was like, I was like, we are going to
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: get busted. He had some excellent war something.
• 28:00
  Speaker 5: Like that, huh, spelling that he was.
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: Good man, he was good if he didn't get busted.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: Nice, that's cool, that's funny, that's aesome, that's good stuff. Yeah,
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: I was.
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: I was even wondering about, like the reason I was
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: asking you about even one thing influencing the other.
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: I could see, uh maybe how I.
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: Mean, I don't know, maybe maybe when I'm dealing with
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: a lot of stuff that equals, you know, my livelihood,
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't tinkle with it too much. But I could
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: see myself wondering like, oh, maybe I should like looking
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: into newer things that I am not too into or
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: knowledgeable on in magic to see if maybe I could
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: start incorporating that or trying that. So I could tell
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: you just myself, I could see myself maybe even learning
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: new aspects or going down different avenues of magic to
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: see if I can start using that with whatever I'm doing.
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: I was just wondering, Yeah, that's like an experience you
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: might have had.
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: Well, yeah, my practice is always evolving. I mean, I'm
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: always I'm always do things. I get I get caught
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: up with different ideas and you know, kind of run
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: around with them, like you know, I like to play
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: with the ruins or something like that. I'm continually refining
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: my astrological my knowledge about astrological magic, getting a little
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: better about that.
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah. You're very really big into that, right, the istrological stuff.
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I am. But it's it's hard. It's
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: hard to do because you have to find opportune moments,
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: you know what I mean. You have to find elections,
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: and you could be waiting, you could be waiting years
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: for some planets to come into a good position, some
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: of the slower moving planets and.
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: Things like that.
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: You like Saturn or something.
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: I was just gonna say Saturn, right, yeah.
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So so Saturn going into Capricorn, Capricorn and Aquarius
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: is the best time to work work with it, or
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: Libra is going to be a while before any of
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: those happen again, probably fourteen years until it goes into
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: Libra and then oh you know, yeah, so you won't
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: you know, you won't be able to work with in
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: with Saturn in and it's the signs it rules or
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: its exaltation major dignities until for fourteen years, because it's
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: in Aries right now and that's the opposite sign of Libra,
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: and it just went through It just went through Aquarius
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: a couple of years ago, and capricorna before that.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: So it's gonna be a while I'm in areas.
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: So I guess, yeah, you might be having a hard
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: time with it with Saturn and Neptune hanging out in
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: Arias on top of your natal son. I don't know,
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: kind of it can kind of put a damper on
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: take some of the shine out of your sun sometimes
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: when when Saturn is crossing it dependent on how close
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: it is.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I can see that morning. Yeah. Uh.
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: When it comes to you know, I always bring this
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: up a lot, and it's just because I'm sure there's
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: other people out there like this guy. I just haven't
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: come across any today or that I remember. I do
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: like bringing up when it comes to I guess like
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: growing stuff astrologically. Have you ever heard of tycho Brahe yeah, yeah,
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: I always thought he was really I know, I looked
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: into him because of you know the other stuff with
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: the you know, the planets and his ship. But then
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: to find out that he was like so big into
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: actually like panting, planting crops with like the astrological signs together,
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: like Jupiter's here, Saturn is there.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: Like he got into.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: That stuff big time and even had stuff and farmacope
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: is like actual medicine, and I was like, holy crap. Yeah,
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh, this dude was like literally like
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: really using that ship. And it's interesting to look back
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: then and see how many people during the Renaissance like, no,
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: that's was all included.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: It's just been seated nowt.
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: Astrology was huge in the in the Renaissance. Kepler was
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: a was an astrologer. M h he he was really
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: interested in finding Jesus' birthday using astrology.
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they even asked him. I think somebody even kind
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: of gave him the job.
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: Is like we wanted to do that.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I remember I covered that way, kind
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: of covered Kepler a little bit, and I remember mentioning that, yeah,
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: that guy was I want to cult this alchemist or whatever.
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: Besides oh yeah, yeah, yeah, and he he worked he
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: worked for Brahe didn't he if I remember correctly, I
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: don't know.
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think. Yeah.
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: So that's why some people get into like, oh, you
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: stole tycle Brahe his work and blah blah blah. Yeah,
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: Tycho Brahe all of a sudden just died, you know,
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: mysteriously died, they said it.
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: And Kepler was working for him.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I guess that's a conspiracy theory for you know,
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: the for the oct Yeah. Yeah, and then you know,
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: he all of a sudden had all his Mars data whatever.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah. The history of science is pretty fascinated too, and
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: and and astrology was is definitely an ancestor of science.
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: I think that the ancients had a very scientific approach
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: to astrology. It's very numerical. It was all it was
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: all geometry and also all there was a lot of
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: a lot to do with In medieval Renaissance astrology, it
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: was like dignity scoring, so you could actually put you
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: actually put a number to how powerful the planet is
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: in your chart. You know, if you it was all
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: there'd be a dignity chart and you could go down
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: there and cross make a checklist. Basically and you'd come
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: up with a certain number of points that each planet
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: in your chart had positive or negative to see how
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: powerful it was, how how great of an influence exerted
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: on your natal chart or something like that. It was
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: very quantitative in addition to being qualitative, so that's kind
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: of interesting. It was very scientific. You could see a
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: sort of objective scientific reasoning behind sort of traditional astrology.
• 33:50
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, their cousins.
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was like that stuff. It just went hand
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: in hand, Like, I don't think there was another question
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: about that. Yeah, I find that pretty cool.
• 34:05
  Speaker 4: You know, yeah, I do too.
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: But the interesting thing is is that if you study
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: astrology long enough that you you realize that it's talking
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: about archetypes and platonic archetypes in the platonic sense. It's
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: what what's what's happening is not is not physical physical
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: beams and rays like and gravity and photons and gravitons
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: and whatnot. It's it's a it's a manipulation of or
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: it's a synchronicity, is working on archetypal qualities, and that's
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: how that's how astrological change happens in the world. It
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: changes thematically and qualitatively.
• 34:53
  Speaker 4: Although that from what I said, you can.
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: You can measure the strength relative in a quantitative way,
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: you can, but you're assessing like more of like the
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: qualities like the hot, the cool, the moist, the dry,
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: the primary Aristotelian qualities and the four elements and how
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: they're they're acting on the physical world in different varying proportions,
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: and that that's how change happens. That's what the ancients believe.
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: That's how the planets influence us in the signs. If
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: that makes any sense.
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I like that. Actually that explanation. That's really good.
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: And I'm glad you brought this up too, because I
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: did kind of want to segue into the certain things
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: that I know that you're into, and I wanted to
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: see like how like maybe you kind of used it
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: in what you're doing, so you kind of I was
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: going to ask, how do you incorporate Platonism and neoplatonism
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: into your stuff? I was also interested on, like you
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: kind of use kabbala when it comes to uh farming
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: as well, how do you incorporate cabala?
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: I think kabbala is a is is basically very new
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: Platonic very and it's in it's in the in the
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: first place, I think they're very they're very compatible. Her Hermeticism,
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: neo Platonism and kabbal are very are very compatible. So yeah,
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: I I do a lot of well being a ceremonial
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: magician of a Western bent, I do incorporate couple into
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: my rituals. I I you know, use Hebrew divine names
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: and things like that, angelic names and things like that.
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: So yeah, it's it's important to me. I work with
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: the sephi ra and things like that, and each it's
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: each of the sef each of the sefi wrote are
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: linked to a planet. Rights one of the tense steers.
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: You know, Catherine is the premium mobile. Banah is a Saturn,
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: Is that right? No, the fixed Hookman is Saturn. Yes
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: it is Jupiter. Yeah, but now is the is the
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: fears of the fixed stars fixed stars is Saturn? Right,
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: guess it is Jupiter. Mars, Tiffarth is the Sun, net
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: SoC is Venus, Hold is Mercury. It is the Moon
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: and Mas course of the Earth. So it's like the
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: ten spheres right there in the definitely definitely part of
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: the whole thing. It's just an it's just another system
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: you can you can work with in the in the
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: in the worldview. So so I think new Platonism is
• 37:27
  Speaker 3: very is a very sophisticated, magical worldview, and it works
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: for me as a as a model, as a as
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: a male in which in which to work, and I think,
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: I think it is truly one of the gifts of
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: the ancient world to us. And it's a it's really
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: cool to see it. It's blossoming, blossoming again and becoming popular.
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was assuming, uh if you used kabbala, I
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: was going to ask, and you already kind of answered
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: it is that how you sometimes would attribute your I guess,
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: your planetary magic, you know, through those spheres and ery
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: that way, because I would just made sense to me
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: that's exactly how you would have done it.
• 38:10
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I would.
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: I would go to seven seven seven probably and work
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: with Yeah, I mean, just like everyone else. Yeah, and
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: I would. But I also like Agrippa too.
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: I would go to oh.
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: Whatever there two from the scale of ten or the
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: scale of seven. Yeah, it's all there.
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: Now, that's something I've even mentioned on the show.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: And uh, you know, there's a lot of people who
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: aren't really like fully into the occult, but you know,
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: it's just more proof here. I don't even know, like
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: if you're a Thelamite or not, or if you're into
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: Thalma or not. But I have said, like so many
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: people when it comes to magic, regardless if they like
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: Crowley or not, they do use seven seven seven.
• 38:50
  Speaker 4: For Yeah, I don't. I'm not.
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: I'm not really a Thalamite, but I do like Silima
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: and I do like I mean, Crowley is part of
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: my my magical upbring as well, and I have I
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: have cross paths with agreeably with OTO members and stuff
• 39:04
  Speaker 3: like that. I think it's a great organization. I think
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: lots of interesting people are members. And I live in
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: the middle of nowhere. It's hard for me to get
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: to meetings and stuff like that. But uh, but yeah,
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: I think, uh, I think that. But I I consider
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: I'm sort of more if I were to, I'm more
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: Golden Dawnish.
• 39:25
  Speaker 4: Or yeah, or more.
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: Hermitic or yeah in my outlook.
• 39:34
  Speaker 4: Then you know.
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: I enjoy the PGM. I enjoy classical, classical divinities and
• 39:41
  Speaker 3: things like that. Classical, I like the orphic hymns. I
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: enjoyed the I like the Pika tricks is one of
• 39:46
  Speaker 3: my is one of my major grimoirs. But I also
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: I also I don't know much about solomonic magic, but
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: I think it's really cool. I would like to get
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: into that. I think there's a lot of it's a
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: high there's a there's a high level of equipment that's
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: necessary for solomonic stuff. But I do think it's really cool.
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: It fits right in with that Renaissance Renaissance vibe that
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: I really like. But I do I do find myself
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: stumbling over the heavy Christianity and some of the groomers.
• 40:14
  Speaker 4: A little bit.
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I get that, people.
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: I can. I can be like, well, it's it's a
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: method and you have to follow the method. But where
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: I'm at right now, sometimes that they lay it on
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: a bit thick and some of the historical, some of
• 40:30
  Speaker 3: the older historical groom wares.
• 40:31
  Speaker 4: But I do.
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: I do enjoy like the.
• 40:35
  Speaker 4: Some of the more.
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: Hebraic ones because they're more of a honest you know
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: what I mean. I can get behind that a little better.
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: I get that, yeah, uh, the catalistic rather than the
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: like real heavy Catholic stuff.
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: One of the reasons I never got into, uh, because
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of stuff you can do with solomonic magic.
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of people just assume like it's
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: always demons for the most part, I guess. But one
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: of the reasons why I never fully got into it
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: is because, uh, I would be so anal. I'm just
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: keeping it real about having everything that you're supposed to have. Yeah,
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: you said you have to have a lot of correct stuff,
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying that. I was just like,
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: I don't even have the time to go be this
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: because I just know I'd have to have everything perfect.
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it was just too I think the half Tamaron
• 41:31
  Speaker 3: is really cool. I would I would like to work
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: half Cameron. I have not worked it, being honest with you,
• 41:35
  Speaker 3: but I do use I do use the prayers from
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: the half Tameroon in my practice, the Black Tary prayers
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: and and the seasonal prayers and stuff like that. But
• 41:44
  Speaker 3: that that is, you know, I think it's it's really
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: a good system.
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: From what I understand. I heard somebody bring that up as.
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: Far as minimal equipment. Yeah, and I think it fits
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: right in with the with the Pika tricks and then
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: astrological magic too, because it's working the planetary planetary spirits
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: as well of the seven days.
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: Uh, how how did you end up getting into I
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: think you also would do reiki? Correct?
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: I did well. I got into reiki because it's a
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: it's an initiatory system that is open you know, you
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: just you take the class and and they'll they'll they'll
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: give you the initiation. It's it's an energy healing system
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: that that was that was open to me.
• 42:34
  Speaker 4: I found.
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: I found a teacher and I found a class and
• 42:38
  Speaker 3: they introduced you to the to the symbols, which I
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: actually think are spirits that work through you when you
• 42:46
  Speaker 3: when you do the healing. And I also I also
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: want to take some of the power over healing back
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: into my own hands, you know what I mean. I
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: tried using angelic entities, working with angelic entities healing, and
• 43:01
  Speaker 3: I would actually, I explained the book, I would actually
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: visualize myself as the angel doing the healing. The next
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: day I would feel wiped out, like so tired, like
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: my father and my mother would get sick or whatever.
• 43:14
  Speaker 4: My parents were.
• 43:15
  Speaker 3: Elderly, and I would like I would send energy and
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: visualizing myself as the angel that I was working with,
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: standing above their bed and standing them energy, and the
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: next day I would be like, so tired and so
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: worn out. And I listened to a practitioner talk about
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: the Pennsylvania German bar Alchari tradition and he was saying
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: you should never use your own energy, and he said
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: you should use divine energy. And then I heard somebody
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: on another podcast talking about reiki and I was like, well,
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: I can't be I can't be initiated into this closed
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: system of Pennsylvania German folk magic because I live in
• 43:51
  Speaker 3: Kentucky and that nobody's doing that here and as far
• 43:53
  Speaker 3: as I know, but here's a reiki teacher and here's
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: a reiki class, and basically they're both doing hands on,
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: hands on energy healing using divine energy. So I took
• 44:04
  Speaker 3: that class, and I took I took all three degrees.
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: And I use it all the time on for my family,
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: my pets, for my garden, I use I use it
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: a lot for my garden, for my plants. You know,
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: if I have my plants not feeling well, I'll send
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: it in, I'll send it some reiki. I think it
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: really works. I think plants are extremely sensitive to intent
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: and to love and to send people sending them energy,
• 44:29
  Speaker 3: sending them good energy. And I know it sounds new
• 44:31
  Speaker 3: agey or whatever, but we're having some. We have some,
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: you know, since global warming is intensifying and things like
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: that and the weather's getting weirder, we as some incredibly
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: difficult there's some incredibly difficult growing conditions right now.
• 44:45
  Speaker 4: And my plants, some of my crops.
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: Are doing really well, like beyond my intern said today,
• 44:53
  Speaker 3: I said, you know, I think our secret here is
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: that we can get by with very little water and
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: still and still make good crops. And he said, he said, yes,
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: it's exceeding my expectations.
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: It's exceeding my expectations, you.
• 45:06
  Speaker 3: Know, because we harvest every you know, we haven't. We
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: got like two inches of rain and not not to
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: complain about the weather. We got two inches of rain
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: in July so far, none in August, half an inch
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: in August. It's it's dry here. And I you know,
• 45:18
  Speaker 3: every day, every every weekend, we harvest bushels and bushels
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: and bushels and stuff off this farm. And it's like,
• 45:24
  Speaker 3: how are we doing it? It's a miracle.
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: That's great. Nice.
• 45:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah, uh hey, Nick, can you hold on.
• 45:37
  Speaker 3: For just a second. I've got a smoke along with
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: a bad battery and it is beeping in the other room,
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: and I don't know if you can hear it, and
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: I wouldn't want to.
• 45:46
  Speaker 4: I wouldn't want it to show up. Okay, I'm gonna
• 45:48
  Speaker 4: I'm gonna.
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: Hit the button, and of course.
• 46:22
  Speaker 4: I can freshen up my tea too.
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: Oh st look at that perfect.
• 46:26
  Speaker 3: I'm like, it's ninety two degrees. I'm drinking hot tea.
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: Oh I still drink How cool.
• 46:32
  Speaker 3: You've been outside all day in the heat and I'm
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: drinking hot tea.
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: I didn't want to start segueing into like, actually, you
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: know the whole thing with the book. What was the reason,
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: Like what did you think was lacking out there that
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: you were like, I need to write a book? Well,
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: or well, you know, what did you think you were
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: bringing to the community or two people in general?
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: Well?
• 46:57
  Speaker 4: Uh uh.
• 46:59
  Speaker 3: In my early twenties, I really wanted to write a book.
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: I've always been a big reader. I've always been avid, avid,
• 47:07
  Speaker 3: like student. I don't have a lot of formal education,
• 47:10
  Speaker 3: but I have thousands of books in my house, and
• 47:13
  Speaker 3: I always wanted to write a book. In my younger days,
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: I wanted to write a book called with a with
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: a pretentious title Priscus Sapientia or something like that, like
• 47:23
  Speaker 3: primal wisdom, you know, original wisdom, and about how like people,
• 47:29
  Speaker 3: about the wisdom that people in the past had that
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: we are forgetting, you know, how to live with the earth,
• 47:34
  Speaker 3: and how to live with work with plants and work
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: with spirits and you know, live in harmony with nature
• 47:41
  Speaker 3: and things like that. And maybe maybe that was a
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: myth that never was, but I did in that at
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: that time, I wanted to write a book like that.
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: I started taking notes, and thirty years later I returned
• 47:53
  Speaker 3: to some of those themes that I was interested in
• 47:55
  Speaker 3: writing about in my early twenties and actually wrote a book.
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: I realized that I would corner random people and give
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: them a lecture, an impromptuy lecture on esotericism or astrology
• 48:09
  Speaker 3: or something like that, and I realized that I had
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: to start writing. You know, if you're like cornering random
• 48:18
  Speaker 3: people and just you know, telling them all about astrology
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: and like the twelve signs and the essential dignity system
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: and like the hermetic cosmology and all this shit where
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: you're you're like, no, you better start writing. The stuff's
• 48:30
  Speaker 3: trying to come out of you. So That's what I did.
• 48:31
  Speaker 4: I tried.
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: I started writing. I started writing a blog and I
• 48:37
  Speaker 3: on substack, and I elaborated on that on some of
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: those early posts and made them into a manuscript that
• 48:44
  Speaker 3: sent them to a publisher. The publisher liked it, and
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: you know, a little a little luck, and they published
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: my book and it's changed my life. And it came
• 48:55
  Speaker 3: out in March, and I'm you know, I've done. I
• 48:57
  Speaker 3: feel like it's it's changed and brought a lot of people,
• 49:00
  Speaker 3: but a lot of new friends, with a lot of
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: new influences into my life. And I felt to answer
• 49:04
  Speaker 3: your question about what I thought the community needed. I'm hoping,
• 49:11
  Speaker 3: you know, our relationship with natures.
• 49:13
  Speaker 4: Is can I cuss?
• 49:14
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, of course, our relationship with nature's fucked.
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
• 49:19
  Speaker 3: I mean the planet is boiling, you know, Europe is.
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: England is turning brown. I mean it's like baking under
• 49:28
  Speaker 3: the sun and turning like just dusty and a dull
• 49:33
  Speaker 3: like like it gets here every summer, you know, I
• 49:35
  Speaker 3: see pictures of everything. I'm used to that here. You know,
• 49:37
  Speaker 3: we have dry August September the grass dies, but in
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: England the grass is dead like Texas or something like
• 49:43
  Speaker 3: that it's like, oh, it looks bad and that's weird
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: to see picture Europe is you know, what was it
• 49:52
  Speaker 3: one hundred and ten degrees in France or something like that.
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: This summer, it's been unprecedented water shortages. I mean, I
• 50:00
  Speaker 3: was hoping against hope that I could help just be
• 50:05
  Speaker 3: another voice saying that we need to treat the earth
• 50:07
  Speaker 3: like a mother, like our mother land, like it's sacred,
• 50:11
  Speaker 3: that we need to honor the spiritual ecology of nature
• 50:21
  Speaker 3: and to see ourselves as part of it rather than
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: as separate from it. I feel like my book has
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: a very Some people don't like the word animist. My
• 50:30
  Speaker 3: book has a very animist message. The stars are people,
• 50:34
  Speaker 3: the planets are people. You know, the elements, the elementals,
• 50:37
  Speaker 3: elements are full of people. You know, nature, the trees
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: are alive, everything, the rock, the earth itself for people,
• 50:43
  Speaker 3: Mother Earth, you know, the divinity. Divinity is inherent in nature,
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: and we can communicate with nature in ceremony. And I
• 50:53
  Speaker 3: just wanted to bring that back to the conversation. And
• 50:57
  Speaker 3: I'm not alone. A lot of other people are talking
• 50:58
  Speaker 3: about the same things. So maybe this is if there's
• 51:01
  Speaker 3: any hope for us, that maybe we can hit the
• 51:04
  Speaker 3: brakes before it's too late. And I don't know, I
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: think we needed sort of a reformation of another kind,
• 51:10
  Speaker 3: and hopefully not a fanatical one, but one where we
• 51:13
  Speaker 3: just start treating the earth like it was alive and
• 51:16
  Speaker 3: sacred and divine, you know, instead of trying to see
• 51:20
  Speaker 3: what we can get out of it.
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I like that.
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: Great reason, great reason, even somebody in the chat had said.
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: And uh, I find this interesting because I'm pretty sure
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: I could be wrong that he might have even have
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: done like maybe the forward he did something for you?
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: Someone said, didn't It doesn't John Michael Greer write some
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: ecologically inclined stuff. I've always liked his work. Did he
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: have something to do with your book?
• 51:48
  Speaker 3: He wrote the forward?
• 51:49
  Speaker 4: Oh?
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: Yes, that's right, Okay, it was right.
• 51:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he's he's a supporter of my work.
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: I don't.
• 51:54
  Speaker 3: I don't know very well. I wish I knew him better.
• 51:56
  Speaker 3: But I am a fan of his work for sure.
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 51:59
  Speaker 3: He writes about He's written a lot of I mean, John,
• 52:02
  Speaker 3: he writes a couple of books a year. He's a
• 52:04
  Speaker 3: prolific author. He's a brilliant man. I mean, it's just
• 52:07
  Speaker 3: a encyclopedic mind really so. Yeah, but he's written a
• 52:17
  Speaker 3: lot about nature spirituality, about Drewidrie, about paganism, about earth
• 52:22
  Speaker 3: based spirituality, definitely, ceremonial magic. Yeah, he's he's an ally.
• 52:27
  Speaker 3: He writes about allied topics for sure.
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: And you're into druidry yourself as well.
• 52:34
  Speaker 3: Correct, among among many among other influences. Yes, I feel
• 52:39
  Speaker 3: I believe druid is an excellent umbrella term for sort
• 52:42
  Speaker 3: of what I do because it's so much involves like
• 52:45
  Speaker 3: ceremony in nature and oak trees and things like that.
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: No, I get that. I can see the correlation.
• 52:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean like, but like John, he is
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: also a ceremonial magician.
• 52:57
  Speaker 4: He's also paid.
• 52:58
  Speaker 3: You know, druid Drew is a type of pagan practice
• 53:01
  Speaker 3: as well. So you know, like like I feel like
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: I walk in several worlds for sure. I have different
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: different practices for different purposes. So I'm I'm at home
• 53:14
  Speaker 3: as at home in my like little home office temple
• 53:18
  Speaker 3: here in this room, as I am out in the
• 53:20
  Speaker 3: in the forest underneath my oak tree doing some rituals.
• 53:23
  Speaker 3: And I do different things for different different purposes different
• 53:26
  Speaker 3: times of year, you know, in the wintertime, it's too
• 53:28
  Speaker 3: cold to go after you freeze your butt off. But
• 53:32
  Speaker 3: you know, so now I work in I work in here,
• 53:34
  Speaker 3: but uh in the summertime, I like in the at night.
• 53:38
  Speaker 3: I like to work outside on a full moon underneath
• 53:41
  Speaker 3: my tree.
• 53:42
  Speaker 4: It's beautiful.
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: Nice. Do you think uh?
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: Do you think that if like an ancient farmer from
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: back in the day was to like show up today,
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: that they would even have like an I they would
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: even be like, you think they'd even understand what we're
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: doing anymore?
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: Now?
• 54:05
  Speaker 3: Uh?
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: Narrow it down for me, Well, I guess like they
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: you know, the way farming has farming changed so much
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: that if you were to bring somebody back like you
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: know from let's say, from the sixteen hundred cento now.
• 54:18
  Speaker 3: And well it went to my place.
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, okay, taking yourself out of the equation, throw
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: them on a regular natural, you know, normal commercial farm.
• 54:29
  Speaker 3: No. I mean they're like driving these giant tractors with Yeah,
• 54:32
  Speaker 3: I mean I think the only thing is the plants
• 54:35
  Speaker 3: in the soil is the similar. But my place, we
• 54:37
  Speaker 3: just still do a lot of stuff by hand. You know,
• 54:39
  Speaker 3: we harvest things with hand tools. I was my intern
• 54:44
  Speaker 3: and I cut corn stalks with machetes today. I think
• 54:46
  Speaker 3: anybody from Middle Ages, you know, we put them in
• 54:49
  Speaker 3: the but we put them in the back of the
• 54:50
  Speaker 3: pickup truck instead of a donkey cart, and we drove
• 54:53
  Speaker 3: to the outfield and hit the brakes and they all slide. That.
• 54:55
  Speaker 3: It's pretty cool. But you know, I think the medieval
• 54:58
  Speaker 3: people would be like, I don't know what this weird
• 54:59
  Speaker 3: thing there driving is, but I'd done that a million times. Yeah,
• 55:05
  Speaker 3: but we're pretty we're kind of I feel like my
• 55:09
  Speaker 3: technology level here is like nineteen forties. Oh technology, Yeah,
• 55:15
  Speaker 3: as far as as far as agricultural machinery, everything I
• 55:18
  Speaker 3: have is it's not that old. My tractors and trucks
• 55:20
  Speaker 3: and stuff are newer than that. But we don't have
• 55:22
  Speaker 3: anything more new fangled than something that would have been
• 55:25
  Speaker 3: around the forties.
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: That's cool, easy.
• 55:29
  Speaker 3: I mean stuff that you have to analog stuff, nothing digital.
• 55:35
  Speaker 3: You know, My tractors are all mangual transmissions. We have
• 55:39
  Speaker 3: to sharpen blades and stuff to cut things and still
• 55:43
  Speaker 3: do a lot of how wing peasants would feel right
• 55:46
  Speaker 3: at home.
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: One thing I did when I ask I guess kind
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: of getting into your book a little bit just for
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: listeners too. When it comes to cunning folk, how would
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: you describe that?
• 56:00
  Speaker 3: Well, the cunning folk, in my use, are the practice
• 56:06
  Speaker 3: the way I'm using and are the practitioners of the
• 56:09
  Speaker 3: British the rural folk magic practitioners of the British Isles
• 56:12
  Speaker 3: that were written about by Owen Davies and Keith Thomas
• 56:17
  Speaker 3: and people like that, Emma will Be. They were. They
• 56:21
  Speaker 3: were the rural magic practitioners. They would distinguish themselves from
• 56:25
  Speaker 3: witches because witches were bad, right, I mean that's they're like,
• 56:30
  Speaker 3: we're the good guys, so we're cunning folk and witches
• 56:33
  Speaker 3: are bad.
• 56:34
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 56:34
  Speaker 3: I don't think that's true really, and that word has
• 56:38
  Speaker 3: largely been reclaimed. But I think back in the fifteen
• 56:41
  Speaker 3: sixteen hundreds, nobody would want to be called a witch,
• 56:44
  Speaker 3: but being a cunning folk, a cunning person, cunning man,
• 56:47
  Speaker 3: or cunning woman, they would kind of like, okay, yeah
• 56:48
  Speaker 3: that's what I am, but don't tell the priest, right.
• 56:53
  Speaker 3: So they were the rural practitioners of magic, and in
• 56:57
  Speaker 3: the in the early modern period, I think a lot
• 57:01
  Speaker 3: of people think that they were probably that they were pagan.
• 57:05
  Speaker 3: I don't I want to state for the record here
• 57:08
  Speaker 3: that from what I understand is at best they would
• 57:10
  Speaker 3: do a faith practitioners practicing some sort of rural folk
• 57:15
  Speaker 3: magic alongside sort of maybe a heretical Christian practice. And
• 57:21
  Speaker 3: then in the early modern periods, opposed to the Middle Ages,
• 57:24
  Speaker 3: more and more people became literate, and you would see
• 57:29
  Speaker 3: in the in cunning People. Well, one of the one
• 57:33
  Speaker 3: of the major sources about cunning folk that Owen Davies
• 57:38
  Speaker 3: and Keith people like Owen Davies and Keith Thomas. And
• 57:41
  Speaker 3: then it will be used as inventories from Wills. So
• 57:44
  Speaker 3: when somebody would die, right, the cunning man would die,
• 57:47
  Speaker 3: his errors would have to take an inventory of all
• 57:49
  Speaker 3: this stuff. And one of the interesting things that they
• 57:51
  Speaker 3: would have to take an inventory of his or her library. Okay,
• 57:57
  Speaker 3: so we see what they were reading, and they're reading
• 58:01
  Speaker 3: William Lilly. They would have a couple grimoires, you know,
• 58:05
  Speaker 3: some of the early printed Gridmars. They would have the
• 58:08
  Speaker 3: three books of Ocult Philosophy. They would have I don't know,
• 58:14
  Speaker 3: the fourth Book of Ocult Philosophy. They would have Ebony's
• 58:16
  Speaker 3: or Sibley that I mean, they would have maybe what's
• 58:20
  Speaker 3: that Grandma uh oh, the come on now, it's all
• 58:27
  Speaker 3: my shelf here. Discovery Witchcraft by the Discovery Witchcraft, which
• 58:33
  Speaker 3: is which is an anti an anti witchcraft, anti Catholic
• 58:38
  Speaker 3: tract written by discovered Witchcraft by come on, and I'm
• 58:46
  Speaker 3: not gonna find it right anyway, make a monkey out
• 58:49
  Speaker 3: of me, but by a Protestant scholar, and he an
• 58:56
  Speaker 3: i rationalist, and he was trying to debunk both Catholicism witchcraft,
• 58:59
  Speaker 3: and he was trying to tar them both both the same,
• 59:01
  Speaker 3: you know, talking about both of the same brush. But
• 59:04
  Speaker 3: the ironic thing have it's it's actually got some really
• 59:09
  Speaker 3: weird solomonic material in it, like rituals to work with demons,
• 59:13
  Speaker 3: some of the ones that ended up in the in
• 59:16
  Speaker 3: the Lesser Key of Solomon are also in the Discovery
• 59:19
  Speaker 3: of Witchcraft. And also there's spells to invoke a fairy woman, Sibylia.
• 59:26
  Speaker 3: There's all these interesting like solomonic rituals in there. And
• 59:29
  Speaker 3: the ironic thing is that cunning folk got a hold
• 59:32
  Speaker 3: of this anti this Christian anti witchcraft tracked and started
• 59:37
  Speaker 3: using these rituals from there, and they're very Catholic, they
• 59:41
  Speaker 3: are very Christian, they are very solomonic. They're they invoke
• 59:45
  Speaker 3: you know, Jesus and God.
• 59:47
  Speaker 4: And the Virgin.
• 59:49
  Speaker 3: Mary and all these things while they're conjuring spirits of
• 59:51
  Speaker 3: the dead. So it's it's really an interesting thing. But
• 59:55
  Speaker 3: but the the irony is that it was used as
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 3: book on how to do richcraft when it was meant
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 3: to be a book that was against witchcraft. So that's
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 3: kind of cool. So so so in the in the
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 3: sixteen hundreds, in the seventeenth century, cunning folk were getting in.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 3: In the late later part of the sixteenth century, people
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 3: were getting printed books, and that made that brought literacy,
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 3: and that brought some medieval Grimore magic to the populace.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 3: So you add that to the mix too, and astrology.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 3: So I feel like, I feel like the true historical
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 3: early modern cunning folk practice is a very book oriented,
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 3: a very dual faith practice in which Christianity sort of
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 3: walks hand in hand with sort of an earthy folky practice,
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 3: kind of like trolldom in the in the Norse, in
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 3: the in the Scandinavian countries and all over Europe. East
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 3: Country and Europe had its own version of cunning craft too,
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 3: which would be like a you know, a blend of
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 3: old and new and solemnnic and traditional and astrological stuff.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 3: And that's sort of what my practice hearkens back to,
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 3: because I feel like, as as those people use many
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 3: different methods, I also use many different methods to to
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 3: whatever I think is is worthwhile or whatever I think
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 3: is practical or effective. And also that kind of stimulates
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 3: my imagination. But that you got to have that, You've
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 3: got to be interested and it's got to appeal to.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: You for sure. Yeah.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 3: Am I getting too dark for you? Is this a
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 3: YouTube thing? Or is this just audio only?
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 4: I should have asked you.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: Oh no, this is live on YouTube.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, I'm gonna turn.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 3: On the light.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, maybe it has changed since you got on.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: I haven't noticed. Oh yeah, that's a lot, right.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm kind of backlit, yes, yeah, yeah.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: I won't have my stuff set up correctly until like
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: probably this weekend, so this isn't even my normal lighting either.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 3: I meant to get a lamp. I've gotten a lamp,
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 3: so I'm not backlitry.
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 4: It is what it is.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: Do you think uh I forgot what I was going
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: to ask you know, damn?
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: Oh?
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: Do you think the idea of the cunning folk do
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: you think historically correct nowadays? Do you think it's like,
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: do you think anything anything part about it is misunderstood
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: or do you think people still kind of have an
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: idea of what it is.
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 3: I had somebody read my book and make a comment
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 3: on it that said that they thought the cunning folk
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 3: were more.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 4: From that.
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 3: They weren't as interested in ceremonial magic, and I'm like, well,
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 3: it's not the version of the cunning Folk that I've
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 3: come across. I have a couple of grimoires in my
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 3: library there, you know.
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 4: One is one is.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 3: Steven Skinner and David rankins Man's grimoire.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 4: Another one is the grimoire of.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 3: Arthur Gauntlet, who's another historical British cunning man. These guys
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 3: were doing ceremonial magic. Yeah, they weren't. They weren't like,
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 3: that's what they were. That's what Then these ladies too,
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 3: that's what they're bread. I'm sure there was a wide
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 3: variety of practice, but ceremonial magic was definitely part.
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: Of it, I would think so, especially with David.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: Rankin Yeah, I've had him, have you, Yeah he is
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: he's really cool.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah nice, Yeah, No, I just.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 4: On the same show. Go ahead, I said, I'm I'm
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 4: honored to be on the same thank.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: You, thank you, but no, I was really happy to
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: get you one.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: I'm very interested in people like using magic for uh,
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: you know, for the crops and growing stuff. And do
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: you think that there's something there, especially even when yeah,
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: even with you know, the way that these things even
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: affect us medicinally or whatever and other things going on.
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: It's find very interesting.
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that it's being I'm trying to reclaim
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 3: it here in the West, but some people have never lost.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 4: It, you know.
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 3: I like to go on vacation to the Yucatan Peninsul
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 3: in Mexico, and I mean they're losing it quickly there too,
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 3: because because of Walmart and supermarkets and things like that.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 3: But there's a farm. There's a huge culture of like
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 3: what I call magical farming among the Mayan people there.
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 3: I mean I talked to mind gentleman the last time
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 3: I was there, and he told me the thing they
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 3: do before they plant their corn is do a ritual
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 3: to appease the dwarves that control the four directions. And
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 3: I was like, that's freaking ceremonial magic. They go to
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 3: the four cores and burn some incense, yes, and they
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 3: offer and pour out some pour out some balcha, which
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 3: is liquor to the dwarves of the the dwarves that
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 3: guard the four four the four quarters, four cardinal directions.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 3: I'm like, that is so cool. It was a whole
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 3: thing you told me, this whole elaborate practice they did
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 3: to do before they even plant the corn. They had
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 3: to get the get the space purified magically. So I'm like,
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 3: that is you know, we're we're back on the ground
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 3: floor really compared to people like that who never lost
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 3: the never lost the culture.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting. That's like almost the version of an L.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: B r p S.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: You know, go into the four corners and absolutely doing
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: all that and thinking it's vanishing and clearing out the area.
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 3: Absolutely, and the Dwarfs of the Four Directions reminds me
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 3: of Norse mythology because they're that there's that too, some
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 3: sort of heathen vanishing ritual that calls the four Dwarfs
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 3: of the of the four Directions.
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: So that's cool.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 3: I mean, I love when you like get into the
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 3: get into the folk floor from around the world, all
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 3: the things that overlap and the magical lore from around
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 3: the world. Yeah, there's another thing. There's another thing. The
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 3: Mayan people of the Yucatan have been around Spanish people
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 3: for a long time, so they have like.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 4: Saints, saints.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 3: I don't want to speak too far out of my wheelhouse,
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 3: but there's there are like spirits of the like angels
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 3: of the almost angels.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 4: They don't call them that.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 3: The Four Directions as well, so that there was another
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 3: ritual that was like to bring I think it was
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 3: actual to bring rain where the powers of it, it's
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 3: just it's LBRP.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 4: Exactly.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 3: I like that they've been doing it for thousands and
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 3: thousands of years.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, there's been some so much. Yeah, I
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: believe that for sure.
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and Israel and Israel Israel regard or the Golden
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 3: to the LVRP and the late nineteenth century based on
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 3: elfhis Levy. It was right in the early century and
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 3: early early eighteen hundreds, early nineteenth century and then you
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 3: got a gripa. So anyway, it's cool. Yeah, it's cool
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 3: to overlap.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: No, I definitely think so.
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: Even even when it comes to indigenous tribes and Native
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 2: American tribes, there's just certain things even with some of
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: their medicine wheels of some of their symbolism. It's like
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: very close to given them again, you're acknowledging these different
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: things at each corner too, representing them.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I make that point in the second chapter. I'm
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 3: a look how around in Kentucky. Here we are in
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 3: Ohio and Kentucky. We have archaeological remains of earthworks, the
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 3: ceremon earthworks of Native American groups from two thousand years
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 3: ago and more. And it's the interesting thing is that
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 3: they made massive, massive earthwork circles that are nearly perfect
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 3: on a grand scale. They made squares nearly perfect. That's
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 3: even heard in the circle, I mean circle. Maybe you
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 3: need a big rope right where it's where you need
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 3: to get a perfect square. You need a pythagory, you
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 3: need the Pythagoray theorem, you know, or at least advanced astronomy,
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 3: which they had that too. And and they're they're laid
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 3: out to the four directions. And the only way you
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 3: can really get the four directions is by being aware
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 3: of where the solstice is, where the sun rises on
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 3: the solstices, and the summer sults, where the sun rises
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 3: and sets on the summer solstice. And on the winter solstice,
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 3: and then you bisect those two angles, right, those those
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 3: four angles, and that's how you get the four directions.
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 3: Cool reading about mounts in Kentucky. Keep it up. Read
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 3: the good stuff though, that that was built by really,
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 3: really really smart people. Not I don't think it was
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 3: built by the nepheline. I think was really built by
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 3: by very very smart people. Maybe they were shamans and
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 3: they reclued in with spiritual I mean, of course they
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 3: were shamans, and I believe that they were. They had
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 3: you know, like like the ancient Greeks, they were inspired
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 3: by spirits, by their workless spirits. I mean, Pythagoras was
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 3: a great mystic, and some people say he's coming up
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 3: with this advanced mathematics and visionary states. And that's exactly
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 3: what the people here were doing. And they were hard,
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 3: hard working people that they moved all that dark with
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 3: shovels and baskets. I'm pretty sure. In dedication, I don't
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 3: I don't buy. I think it's sort of weird to
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 3: say that the Nevilon did.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: It, But I agree with you. I think I think
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 2: we did that, yes, for sure. And I like how
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 2: you brought up Pythagoras. I mean, in my opinion, he's
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: huge in the idea of the pentegrams existing. I don't
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 2: think a lot of people realize that, Like I'm I'm
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 2: like slowly covering kind of like the history of the pentogram.
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 2: And it even surprised me to an extent. I was like,
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 2: you know, I never thought like, I never really thought like,
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 2: but ship this guy was pretty big behind that, and
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 2: even with what it brought it, it gave us rational
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 2: and irrational numbers.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: Because of that.
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 3: There's a great chapter on him in The Secret Teachings
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 3: of All Ages. It's I love that.
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 4: I was listening to.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 3: That book on audiobook recently and and well, I love
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 3: to listen to those long ones too. I got hours
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 3: an hours and the chapter on Pathagorists, which that one
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 3: is awesome. I mean, it was written in the thirties
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 3: or something like that, so it's not there's a lot
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 3: of scholarly conveyed He passes on some He passes on
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 3: some legends as if they were facts. But once you
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 3: get once you realize that some of the legends, like
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 3: you know, not everything he says about pythagorasts probably really
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 3: happened because but he does. The chapter on Pathagorist is
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 3: great because Pythagoras is huge in Western esotericism.
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: Huge.
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's awesome that you brought that up. I wanted
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 2: to ask also, I know, I think before you kind
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 2: of mentioned like heretical, which that does make sense. But
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 2: when it comes to like the cunning folk, was like
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 2: being Christian or Catholic like a commonality or no.
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 6: Well, I think if you if you look at the
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 6: fifteen hundreds, the sixteenth century in say England, you look
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 6: at the in the in the seventeenth century and say England.
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 3: I think there were times when you had to be
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 3: one of those. It was illegal not to go to church,
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 3: right you would, I mean you get fined or put
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 3: in jail if you didn't go to church. You had
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 3: to show up in church every week. So I think everybody,
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 3: at least on Sunday had to, you know.
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: That's true.
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 3: And then they switched it up on them, right like
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 3: King Henry dropped out of the King Henry the Eighth
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 3: dropped out of the church, dropped out of the Catholic
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 3: Church and formed the Church of England. So everybody had
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 3: to join the Church of England or which he was
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 3: the head of or you know, off with your head.
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 3: And then they had who was it, Mary Shooter, who
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 3: tried to bring it back to the Catholics, and everybody
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 3: had to well it was illegal to be a Protestant
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 3: all of a sudden, and you had to go back
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 3: to everybody had to go to the Catholic church or
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 3: off with your head. And then Queen Elizabeth brought it
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 3: back the other way, and you know King James the
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 3: first and the you know, it just kept going back
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 3: and forth. So so yeah, I think they all they
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 3: all tried to keep their heads down and go to
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 3: whatever church they were supposed to go to in that
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 3: part of the country at that time that they were in.
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 3: And then you know, if you look at if you
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 3: look at Emma Wilby's work where she talks about Isabelle
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 3: Gaudi in Scotland, who was a historical witch or cunning woman.
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 3: So she was obviously from a Christian culture and she
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 3: obviously but she was working with the Queen of fairy,
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 3: perhaps the devil, you know, at that time the fifteen
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 3: hundreds sixteen hundreds, the Old religion, the pagan religion of
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 3: the of late Antiquity in the early Middle Ages was
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 3: thoroughly thoroughly gone, I think, and despite you know, there
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 3: might have been some packed pockets here and there of
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 3: some pagan survivals practices, but I mean, basically, you worked
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 3: within a Christian framework and if you wanted to work out,
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 3: if you wanted to work with the powers of nature,
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 3: the Christians in what Joseph Campbell calls mythic defamation. Are
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 3: you still there, Nick? Yeah, okay, okay, holding real still?
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 3: Uh when Joe what Joseph Campbell called mythic defamation, basically
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 3: all the pagan gods became Christian devils, you know, and
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 3: this was this was all over the Christian world. I
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 3: mean when I was I was reading the Gold Book,
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 3: the the Icelandic Grimoire yesterday and the author has a
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 3: has an essay in there about basically they turned, they
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 3: turned thor woden odin Loki. All those were devils in Iceland,
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 3: in the Middle Ages it was, and in in England
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 3: they probably didn't even remember the names of the pagan god.
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 3: But you can see you can see from earlier grimoires
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 3: or early earlier Christian magical works like the Lac Nuna.
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 3: I think that's how you say the old English leech books.
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 3: There's some spells in there. Spells there look like prayers
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 3: where they call upon Woden, and for these are English
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 3: works from the tenth century, so there was some blending.
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 3: But by the time you get to the fifteen hundreds
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 3: and the sixteen hundreds, I think in macho Western euro
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 3: of the pagan stuff was a distant, distant memory. And
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 3: if you wanted to be a little transgressive and step
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 3: outside and work with the natures, in powers of natures
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 3: that it was saying, they were thoroughly demonized. So you're like,
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 3: you're looking at demons and devils right then, right, So
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 3: if Emma will be she's working with the Queen of
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 3: Fairy is one of her spirits. I don't remember the
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 3: name of some of the other ones, but I'm pretty
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 3: sure she would she confessed to working with the devil.
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 3: But you know, when some people are scared, they'll confess
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 3: about anything. But I honestly think that the Church has
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 3: only itself to blame for that that diabolic stuff in
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 3: the Middle Ages, because they basically invented it, and they
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 3: put it into the mouths of They put it into
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 3: the mouths of these poor medieval peasant women, that they
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 3: would that they would that they would drag off the
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 3: streets and torture. And in the beginning, like in the
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 3: early middle Age, if you read, if you read the
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 3: witchcraft documents from the early Middle Ages and about the
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 3: actual folk magical practitioners in the early Middle Ages, like
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 3: eight hundred nine hundred, they were they were still calling
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 3: on pagan gods and goddesses, Okay, And when you get
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 3: into the later Middle Ages, they're like it's more fairies
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 3: or in the middle of Middle Age and then later
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 3: on and but the church is putting words into these
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 3: people's mouth like like the inquisitors are like, dude, you
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 3: worship the devil and they stick them with a hot poker.
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 3: Again He's like, yes, yes, they did. You know, they'll
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 3: say anything. It's like if you've ever seen the torture
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 3: seeing the Name of the Rose where they get that
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 3: poor poor guy to confess, Uh, you've ever seen the
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 3: Name of the Rose of Sean Connery.
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 1: If I don't remember, I.
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 3: Canna make another guy, River Phoenix, one of those dudes anyway,
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 3: from the eighties. It's a great movie. It's a great
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 3: it's a better book by ROMBERTA.
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 4: The name of the rose.
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 3: But they tortured this poor dude and like get him,
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 3: get him to say anything, like he was he was
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 3: a crook and a thief, but he wasn't, you know,
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 3: fooling around with the devil. But then, but then that
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 3: became a thing, right, It became a thing after you
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 3: get enough people to confess and it gets into it
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 3: gets into the writing. Yeah, it became part of the
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 3: folk magic practice by the late Middle Ages and by
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 3: and by the and by the Renaissance and by the
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 3: early Modern period.
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: M hm.
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 4: That's interesting.
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 3: I mean the church basically invoked its shadow and they
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 3: and brought it into it and made it a thing.
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 1: No, I get that.
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 2: You know, your first chapter I think as consulting the
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 2: genius of the place. Yeah, yeah, I know, you get
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 2: into like the spirit and the genius. U. Can you
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 2: just give maybe people a little bit of an idea
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 2: about like how you look at that. I guess maybe
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 2: like psychologically, metaphorically, ecologically if you do.
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 3: Well. I was just reading something interesting today about how
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 3: the ancient Greeks would always offer a libation to a
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 3: Gotho steymon to the good, the good, the good diamond,
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 3: and that is the spirit of the land. So so
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 3: it was like a very common toast to like part
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 3: a libation at the beginning of any festival, to the
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 3: good diamond. So that was like a key practice too,
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 3: from coming down to aformation times is taken care is
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 3: is revering the spirit of the place, of the land
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 3: where you are. And that's still a huge thing today
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 3: in Asia, in the Middle e I don't know about
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 3: the Middle East, but in Asia, I think people have
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 3: I don't know the specifics, but I think it's a
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 3: huge thing all over the world to make offerings and
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 3: to have an alter to the spirits of the land
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 3: because it's so it's so important, and I think it's
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 3: important to us today to bring that back. I mean,
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 3: the spirits of the land, whatever they may be, whether
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 3: they be fairies, whether they be elementals. I think there's
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 3: so many subtle on so many subtle levels, they can
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 3: be the thing that makes things go smoothly or less smoothly.
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 3: The condition of those spirits ansient. People thought that if
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 3: the spirits of land were unhappy, they would actually make
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 3: you sick, and you know, we see that in Functui
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 3: to this day. You know, if the energy and energy
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 3: and spirits. I think there are basically two words for
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 3: the same thing. You know, we we we the in
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 3: the in the occult community, we talked about the spirit
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 3: model and the energy model, but I really, I really
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 3: don't think there's a whole lot of difference. So so
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 3: functue is at least is as interested in in appeasing
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 3: the the energies and as it is in peri appeasing
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 3: the spirits of the land, be they like departed people
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 3: that lived on your land before. And in an urban place,
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 3: you're probably dealing with a lot of departed people in there,
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 3: you know, But out here in the country, I think,
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 3: I think it's a it's a basis to all of
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 3: our work.
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 3: The first thing we got to do is make some
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 3: offerings to the spirits of land before we even begin,
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 3: and so much we do is dependent on their on
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 3: their goodwill. I do believe in luck. I believe in luck.
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 3: I also believe in destiny, but I believe in luck.
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 3: I think luck is is a thing that's sort of
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 3: substance of course, and things can really go your way
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 3: or not go your way. And I think I think
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 3: one of the biggest things in magic is to is
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 3: to work on your luck. You know, you don't have
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 3: to be you have to be rich. You can be
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 3: rich and pretty unlucky.
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 4: I think.
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 3: I think to be how things go the way you want.
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 4: Them to go.
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 3: And one major way of doing that is keeping the
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 3: spirits of place on side.
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 4: You know, whether you're.
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 3: Leaving tobacco or you're leaving supream for the little people,
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 3: the glass of water, what have you? I like to
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 3: I don't drink anymore, but I pull I pour out
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 3: a beer. I like. I like to buy some good
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 3: beer and pour it out to the land spirits.
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 2: I appreciate that makes sense to even beer kind of
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 2: you know, with the wheat or whatever.
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 1: I can see that making sense, you even using beer,
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying.
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Guinness might like Innnis because I used
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 3: to like Guinness, so they like what I like. I'm like, oh,
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 3: you guys are so lucky. You can handle this. It's
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 3: not good for me, but you guys can have.
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: That's good. Nice, give them a good one. That's funny.
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: Have you ever encountered what you believe like to be
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 1: a spirit?
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think maybe you might have almost kind
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 2: of insinuated that before and when you said that you've
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 2: done stuff outside, but have you ever encountered what you
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 2: believe is to be a spirit on your farm?
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah? Yeah, A bunch of times. Yeah, I went. I
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 4: went to one of the.
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 3: Most haunted places supposedly in America, the Waverley Sanatorium, and
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 3: I sat there.
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 4: I stayed there all night long.
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 3: I wandered around all through it, like by myself, sat
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 3: in upper rooms. I was so so peaceful there. I
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 3: never got I don't know, maybe I was overly banished
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 3: or something like that, because I was scared when I
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 3: went there, you know what I mean. I was I'll
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 3: get back to my place in a minute. I was
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 3: scared when I went there. I had trepidation and like,
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 3: oh this place is really I'm gonna get the hair
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 3: stick And no, I was so peaceful. That was so chill.
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 3: I sat by myself in the dark up on the
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 3: fourth floor.
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 4: That's a good one. I like that. Saint Lawrence.
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 3: Saint Lawrence anyway, So my place is is why there's there.
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 3: I've gotten the hairs standing up on the back of
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 3: my neck so many more times here all the time,
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 3: I feel like spirits. I'm not super I'd said in
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 3: the book. I'm not clairvoying or I don't really see
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 3: them in full manifestation, but I get the hair standing
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 3: up on the back of my neck. I feel sometimes
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 3: I can hear them talking to me in my in
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 3: my mind streaming, you know.
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 4: What I mean.
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 3: I like, I get quiet enough and I can hear
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 3: them talking to me. That's one major.
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 4: Form of contact.
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 3: Mostly what I run into here is pretty benevolent, but
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 3: it's it's almost like a bodily sense and a feeling.
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 3: I had something pull my elbow one time walking around
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 3: on my farm. It was like it was like.
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 4: All souls night.
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 3: It wasn't Halloween night, it was the it was the
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 3: next night. It was November first, and we had had
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 3: we had had some people die of a drug overdose
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 3: a couple of miles from here in their car. They
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 3: like they like shot up or something like that with
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 3: fentanyl or something, and they died in their car, come
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 3: miles from here. And I don't know if this had anything,
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 3: but it was not very far away. And like the
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 3: next night, something like I was walking by myself in
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 3: this weird little whirlwind like whipped up and there was
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 3: like a bunch of dry stalks of weeds and it
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 3: was and I got the creepiest feeling on the back
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 3: of my neck and something, I swear to God, something
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 3: pulled my arm and I knew that, and I thought
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 3: of those people. I was like, oh my god, that's them.
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 3: They're like, they're they're long, they don't know what to do,
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 3: they're lost. And luckily I went back to the house
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 3: and went back to my kids, and I was like,
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 3: I think I just ran into a ghost.
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: What no way.
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So stuff like that happens to me. And that's
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 3: not the only time I like to talk to the
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 3: to the There's some more permanent residents of the area
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 3: that I like to talk to that have been here
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 3: a long time. Some of them been here thousands of years,
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 3: and some of them, you know, just we're here, you know,
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 3: the people that lived on the farm in this in
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 3: the twentieth century, in the mid mid twentieth century. So
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 3: I talked to them too. They're a lot friendlier than
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 3: that one that pulled my ELBOWT good for you, yeah,
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 3: so so yeah, absolutely, And then and then we do rituals.
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 3: You know, sometimes sometimes the timing is better. I think
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 3: timing is a lot of things. So sometimes you get contact.
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 3: It's it's the same with any with any other magician.
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 3: You know, I'm sure you're more successful or less successful.
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 3: But sometimes if the timing is right, to face the
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 3: moon is right, the moon, you're in the right, set
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 3: in the set, right and set and setting, and you've
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 3: done the ritual right, it's really strong, and you'll get
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 3: the feeling of presence. You'll get the weird animal call
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 3: that is oddly sign like like say evoking heckity or
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 3: something like that. And you'll get the weird whirlwind, and
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 3: you'll get the feeling on the back of your neck
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 3: you know who's who was it said that the ghost
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 3: always comes from behind. You'll get that like creepy feeling.
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 3: And then I did this one night in the woods,
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 3: and I used to be more scared of doing things
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 3: in the woods, which helped. Really I was more jumpy,
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 3: and I've gotten so comfortable with it. The jumpiness is
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 3: I feel like it's it's almost like I should go
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 3: further into the woods and feel jumpy because the like
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 3: the nervousness almost get your senses keyed up. But that
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 3: night I got all those feelings and I finished my
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 3: ritual and I went back to the house and I
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 3: went to sleep, and that night I had dreams where
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 3: some female spirit was instructing me about how to use
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 3: the moon in like magical practice, and some of that
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 3: actually made it into my chapter on moon on the
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 3: moon work what I remembered, Yeah, I got I woke
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 3: up and wrote it down as soon as I woke up.
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 4: But you know that that.
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 3: Was I felt like that was a pretty right on experience.
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 2: I'm glad how you brought up the moon because I
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 2: was actually going to lead into my next question.
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you I you know, I.
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 2: Just like bringing it up for people, you know, to hear.
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 2: How I do you know from my even from my
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 2: experience with doing anything in magic, talisman's candles, whatever it was,
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 2: I was always throwing the moon in there, and depending
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 2: on what it was doing, is when I was going
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 2: to do my stuff there.
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 2: So I mean, were you the same way you incorporate
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 2: moon moon timing?
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 3: I do now, and I didn't. I think when I
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 3: was in my early twenties, I was not interested in
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 3: astrology to be able to confess to you. So I
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 3: was reading and all that stuff, and I was taking
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 3: it taking any notice of the moon. I would just
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 3: do what I and you know, Crowley and stuff like that.
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 3: I didn't take any notice of the moon, but now
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 3: I do. Yeah, if you want to do if you
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 3: want to manifest something, you want to bring something forth,
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 3: increase something, you do it in the waxing moon. And
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 3: if you want to decrease something or remove something, or
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 3: you know, harm something, you do it in a waning moon.
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 3: You know, and the sign makes a difference to the
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 3: essential dignity of the strength of the moon. Sometimes you
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 3: want a quote unquote bad moon, you know you want
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 3: to you want a moon that's kind of putting out
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 3: of a funky satturney in or martiall energy right on,
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 3: do imagic it and getting creeped out of me.
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 1: That's fun.
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you should try it outside because some giant deer
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 3: will come storming through the woods and make a whole
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 3: bunch of noise and scared the crap out of you.
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 3: Or or like the other night, I was down in
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 3: my little oak tree and like coyotes were very very close,
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 3: and that you know, they're not gonna hurt you. I
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 3: had a big I had a big stick anyway, but
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 3: they're not gonna hurt you.
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 4: But still You're like.
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 2: Are they it's probably a wild experience.
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's pretty there. Their calls are really really eerie,
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 3: and when they're close, it's like you get the hackles
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 3: on the back of the neck too. It's pretty instinctive.
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 3: So another another podcast, I was on The Gentleman lives
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 3: in California and he like he likes to do he's
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 3: in the traditional witchcraft and he likes to do rituals
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 3: outside too, and they're freaking grizzly bears there.
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 4: I'm like, no, thank you, he said.
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 3: Grizzly grizzly bear came up during one of his just
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 3: like cruised gone by and I was like, oh no,
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 3: those guys will eat you. Yeah, I'm glad we don't
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 3: have anything that'll eat you here yet.
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 1: That's was so.
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah. So the moon is super important. I like to
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 3: work with lunar mansions. Lunar mansions from the Pika Tricks
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 3: to the Excellent Cool Kit. Yeah, there's twenty eight lunar
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 3: mansions in Western in the Western Lunar Mansions system that
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 3: we get from the Middle East from the Arabic system
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 3: of Arabic astrology, and there's twin and they all have
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 3: different powers. So it's like a little tool kit. There's
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 3: ones for like, there's ones for healing, there's ones for cursing.
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 3: There's ones for helping your plants grow. There's ones for
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 3: helping your you know, helping your planting. There's ones for like,
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 3: you know, if your neighbors trying to do a construction
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 3: project and you're pissed off at him. There's ones for
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 3: impeding a construction project. You know, just in case you
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 3: magicians out there want to go and stop your local
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 3: data centers from going up. Just maybe you look at
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 3: the lunar mansions or a nice Saturn talisman. Saturn's in
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 3: bad shape right now. It'd be a bad talisman too,
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 3: So you want to impede a construction project, So there's
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 3: some lunar mansions for that.
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 1: That is good.
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, so so yeah, the moon's the moon is
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 3: super important and you have to as the people said,
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 3: he the wor heed the moon and all your works.
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 3: He heard what phase she's in, because the phases have
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 3: their own energetics. But at least at least the waxing
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 3: wan and.
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 1: Nice. So yeah, thank you for explaining.
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 3: And then for planting, obviously, for planting. That's if anybody
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 3: out there grows a garden or harvests herbs or whatever
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 3: it's it's it's good to to take that into account
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 3: or you want to plant the Farmers and iMac my
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 3: book has a chapter on it, and if you want
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 3: to read it my book, please go ahead and buy
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 3: a copy of my book. There's a there's there's several excellent,
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 3: excellent books on it. There's The Farmers Ominant, of course,
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 3: and then there's this The Zodiac Garden God. But Isaac Hill,
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 3: which is a recent book that came out this year.
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 3: There's my book. There's some good books on planning, by
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 3: the Signs, the fox Fire Book. All you want, all
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 3: kinds of great lower in there?
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 1: Nice? Uh, probably ask you. I mean I have. It's unfortunate.
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 1: I have a bunch of stuff. I actually could ask
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 1: you to keep you here forever.
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 2: But go yeah, yeah I can't. I probably have to
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 2: wrap it up after you.
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 3: Look like you're getting a little tired.
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 2: Oh no, not even that. It's just I unfortunately still
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 2: have stuff I even have to do after this. I'm
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 2: like in the middle of moving.
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah can you uh can you hear me now? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 1: I'm in like the middle of moving technically kind of
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 1: right now. So it's like I.
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 2: Still have yeah, still after this, I still got to
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 2: go move stuff too. I'm in airbnb and I'm going
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 2: into an apartment tomorrow.
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 1: So oh cool, Yeah you go.
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 3: I hope you don't have to carry stuff upstairs. That's
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 3: New York man. Did you have to do that?
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 2: I will have to tomorrow. Yeah, we'll have to get
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 2: this stuff in a a.
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 3: You're in New Yorker, you can.
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 1: You can handle it. Yet, it is what it is.
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 1: It's not bad.
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So I mean no, I I would, but just
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 2: unfortunately I do have to go somewhere else.
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 4: Yes, great man.
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah. One thing with your with your book, one thing
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 2: that you hope you'll the people who read it, if
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 2: there's one thing that they get out of it, what
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 2: do you hope that is?
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 3: I hope that they can it can help them if
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 3: they haven't already get a little further down the path
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 3: of re enchanting their relationship with nature, incorporating their magical practice,
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 3: and then incorporating nature into their magical practice. A lot
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 3: of ceremonial magic magician people magic people are not very natural,
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 3: you know, And.
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 4: I feel like I get that I feel like, you know,
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 4: there's a lot.
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 3: Of wickens there nature and Neo Peigans and Norse pagans
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 3: and druids, and I'm trying to draw a few. I'm
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 3: trying to bring the ceremonial magic nature back into the
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 3: ceremonial magic too. I mean, I work with some of
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 3: those other modalities as well, but so I want to
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 3: have a I want to have an in for ceremonial
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 3: magicians as well to getting a little nature back in
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 3: their practices. That's how That's how they were doing in
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 3: the gridmires. They were working outside. I don't I wish
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 3: i'd if I'd prepared for that question a little better.
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 3: A lot of the a lot of historical grandmars are
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 3: like this is best done outside. You know, the Fourth
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 3: Book of Occult Philosophy, for one, he's like, he's like,
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 3: work outside. If you can make your circle in bear dirt,
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 3: it works better. Make friends with the spirit of the land,
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 3: Make friends with the spirit of the place where you are.
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 3: Learn Learn learn the lore of your place. Learn what people,
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 3: what historical people's lived there, you know, Learn what people didn't,
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 3: what what indigenous people still live there, Learn what learn
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 3: about their mythology, learn about your you know, your ancestral mythology,
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 3: because all of our ancestors once lived in harmony with
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 3: the land. Whether whether you're whatever part of the world
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 3: you're from, you your ancestors were farmers, your ancestors were
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 3: living on the land, were hunter gatherers, were like people
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 3: that lived with the seasons and with the earth. And
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 3: find out what what ancestral practices. And I give you
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 3: some examples based on my life and my my understanding things.
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 3: And I feel like, I feel like what I put
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 3: in the book is an example and a sort of
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 3: a jumping off point for your own research, for your
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 3: own journey. So I want people to begin there, read
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 3: the book and begin your own journey. Like it's not
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 3: a cookie cutter approach that I'm teaching there, it's like
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 3: a it's like a worldview, a way of seeing the world,
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 3: a way of understanding, and also some hints for further
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 3: exploration in your own path.
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 1: That was awesome, your own path. I think that's a
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 1: great way to say it. Man. Yeah, no, I go ahead.
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 3: Go ahead, there you go before there's one something I
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 3: want to say before we're done.
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I was just gonna say I know, for
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 2: I think you nailed it too, And I I kind
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 2: of wasn't into him right away, and I eventually did
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 2: get into like herbs more, and I am a little
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 2: bit like I do get like, you know, our world,
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 2: we're definitely raping the shit out of it, out of nature,
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying, it's fucked up. But I
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 2: will say, just a ceremonial magician myself, I do think
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 2: you're correct. I do think there's as much focus on
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 2: that as there is in like Wicco or witchcraft. You know,
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 2: like maybe if you could get like a happy medium,
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 2: that'd be great, you know what I'm saying, or whatever,
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 2: or get like you get a little bit more acknowledgment in.
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 1: The ceremonial community. I think you nailed it. You know.
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 3: You can go to David Rankins Grimore Encyclopedia and like
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 3: open to the herbs section where he extracts it from
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 3: every grimar ever written, and it's all plants that grow
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 3: in the land that you need to perform rituals. I mean,
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 3: whether you're working solomonic magic or you know, even your
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 3: even your incenses are herbs that grow in the land
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 3: and you don't have to use frankncense that comes from
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 3: the Middle East. You know, you can find another solar
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 3: plant to burn as a as a fumigation. You know,
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 3: Saint John's Wort's a good one that grows here on
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 3: my farm. If you didn't have any franking sense, you
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 3: could you could burn that. You know, solar herbs, I
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 3: mean mostly planetary magic is so huge in ceremonial practices
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 3: of all kinds, and working with actual plants. Growing the
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 3: actual plants just deepens your practice harvesting, harvesting them, Planting
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 3: them on the planetary day and hour, harvest if you can,
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 3: I mean it's hard to do. Harvesting them on the
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 3: planetary day day and hour enhances the answer their power.
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 3: You know, it's you perform your ritual in the planetary
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 3: day an hour. You harvested your herbs on the planetary
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 3: day an hour, you've got your more power. You're more
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 3: tuned in with the spirit of that planet. And if
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 3: you can throw some astrology and there's some actual like
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 3: you know where the planets are in the sky. I
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 3: think you're just you're just building up occult virtues, piling
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 3: them up. And I think the more you pile them up,
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 3: the more resonance you get, the more you know, to
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 3: use a crude but ancient metaphor, the more like the
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 3: more the the influencers travel down, the travel down the
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 3: cosmic chains of the great chain of being, into your
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 3: into your talisman or into your working.
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 1: I like that.
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 2: I definitely think you know, the planetary correspondences and that stuff.
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 1: I definitely think that helps.
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I like that.
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 1: Uh, you know, very well, said you man.
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 2: I really do hope, you know, I hope the book
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 2: does well, and I hope you accomplish what you were
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 2: trying to aim for, you know, I hope you influence
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 2: more magiciancy a little bit more into the the nature
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 2: side of things.
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I have some. I have some.
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 3: I've had positive, a lot of positive feedback on the book. Really,
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 3: I'm quite happy with the feedback. And you know, we've
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 3: only been out a couple of months and we've sold
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 3: a few. I don't really know how many we've sold,
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 3: but I mean every time I open a social media
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 3: someone's like I just got my copy, or some little
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 3: stores like I just got ten copies that we're stalking
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 3: in the store. You know, I get a good review.
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 3: I've gotten some really nice reviews. It seems like people
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 3: are pleased with it. So I mean, that's music to
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 3: my ear. I'm humbled by the response I get. Honestly,
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 3: I did not. I did not, but I didn't know
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 3: that it would resonate so strong with people as it has.
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 3: And you know, if I make a if I make
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 3: a classic, even if it's not a great, huge, like
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 3: worldwide best seller, but if I make something that is
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 3: a classic, and you know, ten years from now, people
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 3: are like the cunning farm rock that was a great book,
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 3: Let's let's read, you know, let's repent whatever happened to that.
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 3: You know, that'd be really cool. I know there are
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 3: some books like that, or they're like modern classics.
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 3: You know, maybe maybe their authors aren't like the most
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 3: wealthy author or whatever. I'd be happy to be a
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 3: wealthy author too, but oh, you know, and why not.
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 3: I don't think they bring that many copies of it.
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 3: And I'm not gonna get wealthy on this one. I
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 3: got rite another one.
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 2: No, it's very uh yeah, I'll just from a lot
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 2: of things that I've heard people say since I've had
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 2: authors on and I've had a bunch of them on, uh, yeah.
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 1: At least in this community. You're not really doing this
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 1: to get rich. Ain't gonna happen.
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 3: No, it's labor of love. And I believe that. I
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 3: do believe in spirits. I do believe in guardian age.
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 3: Like a guardian or we have our own like we
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 3: have our own inner diamond. And I think the diamond
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 3: wanted me to write this book. And that's why I
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 3: wrote it. I mean, that's why I was. I was
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 3: bursting out of my mouth. Every person I could talk
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 3: to is because the diamonds like, you're going down this path,
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 3: You're gonna work on it, You're gonna you're gonna write
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 3: this book. We're gonna get this out.
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 2: Well, your your whole desire was probably more to share
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 2: with people than monetary value.
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 1: So that's probably why you know about it.
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 2: And it's probably you know, pure pure idea.
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 3: I mean, to be fair and honest, I am. I'm
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 3: fifty three years old, have been farming for like a
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 3: long time, like thirty years or something like that, and
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 3: I would like to slow down a little bit. Oh
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 3: that was the book is helping with that, you know,
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 3: the book is helping with that. Get my name out there,
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 3: getting my getting my work out there, so that's that's cool.
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 2: Hell yeah, uh, you know, hopefully maybe in the past,
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 2: I mean in the past, hopefully maybe in the future
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 2: we could always get you back on because there you
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 2: started to go into it a little bit, which I'm
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 2: happy that you kind of mentioned a planetary day in
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 2: the hour. There was even like a lot more ritualistic
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 2: stuff that I would have liked to have talked to
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 2: you about since you Yeah, yeah, so maybe we can
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 2: get you back on for like, you know, maybe you know,
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 2: hour hour and a half and get a little bit
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 2: more deeper into the actual ritualistic stuff. But thank you
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 2: very much, man. I had a great time. I wish unfortunately,
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 2: I wish the other rejects could have made it. But
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 2: I'm sure maybe next time when I have you on,
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 2: I could get one or two other people. Yeah, Judith
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 2: definitely wanted to be here. She just couldn't because of
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 2: work she does have. She doesn't have to get up early,
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 2: so to her that half hour I get it, you know,
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 2: so maybe we'll make it to uh, she can come
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 2: on because she had a bunch of questions she wanted
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 2: to ask you as well.
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 1: So yeah, hell yeah, no, great time. Todd. I really
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 1: I had a blast.
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 2: I love talking about this stuff though, again, like I'm
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 2: even you know, it's funny how as a ceremonial magician,
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 2: and I guess maybe this is where I even say,
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 2: I get where you're going with it. As much as
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 2: I am into like nature, I'm not like extreme, but
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 2: I am into it. But like even I was into
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 2: herbs and crystals and I it just didn't seem as
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 2: prevalent among ceremonial magicians. And if they did use it, it
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 2: was like because it was like mentioned in something. Really
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 2: it wasn't like they had an affinity with it, you
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 2: know what I'm saying. I had crystals because I actually
• 1:42:26
  Speaker 2: thought that they were cool and like I felt something
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 2: from them, you know what I'm saying. Or you know,
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 2: like herbs, even certain incenses I used because I did
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 2: feel like I was actually getting something out of utilizing them,
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 2: you know, myself as well.
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 1: Or was there was something there going on magically.
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 3: Huge in theortery you know, yeah, yeah, it was huge
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 3: in theatery. You got to have the right if you
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 3: wanted to infuse a statue, right, you had to have
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 3: the right gemstones and the right and the right herbs
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 3: the right incenses to perform the you know that that's
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 3: kind of good. Going back to.
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 4: Ancient Egypt, Yeah.
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 3: Going back to Yamblicus, and then that comes that comes
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 3: down to it, you know us in the ceremonial magic. Uh, herbs.
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 3: It's huge nastrological magic too, if you if you want
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 3: to infuse it even want each star has it has
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 3: a gemstone and a couple of herbs. If you want
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 3: to if you want to work with powers of the stars,
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 3: the spirits of the stars, you have the gemstone. You
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 3: have to make that you have to make the right receptacle,
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 3: and the receptacle is the image the gemstone and the herbs,
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 3: and it's a it's pretty cool to have the herbs.
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 3: And I've made a few fixed star talismans, and it
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 3: was really cool to have the right herbs. The stones
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 3: I have to order from somewhere, but the herbs I
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 3: can come up with luckily usually nice.
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 2: See, I definitely got to get you back on because
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 2: it sounds like, you know, pretty much the same thing.
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 2: I would always use the herbs and gems and the
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 2: stones that would go along with theological ship that I
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 2: was trying to do with my teles and a candle whatever.
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 1: Of all I'm doing.
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah, grip and.
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, ye see it was.
• 1:44:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was very much into that kind of stuff,
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 2: even at the beginning of Gripper for sure.
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 3: So that's probably the gods left for us in the
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 3: in the in the universe, and when we put those
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 3: signs together, we can channel the energies of the.
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 1: Gods for sure. Yeah.
• 1:44:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well again, Todd, thank you very much. Like I said,
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 2: we'll definitely get you on in the future.
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 3: Awesome talking to you, brother. Hey, can I make a
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 3: little anousment for Yeah, I was.
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 2: Going to ask you please if you want to promote
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 2: and play anything you like before we wrap it up.
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 3: Awesome, Thank you so much.
• 1:44:35
  Speaker 4: Nick.
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 3: Okay, I have a substack which is the Cunning Farmer
• 1:44:41
  Speaker 3: dot substack dot com. I have please check me out there.
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 3: I have I have the Cunning Farmer on Facebook, on Instagram.
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 3: I do most of my stuff on substack. If you
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 3: really want to stay in touch with me, become a
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 3: free subscriber on something. It doesn't cost you. On substack,
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 3: it doesn't cost you anything. Most of my stuff you
• 1:44:58
  Speaker 3: can read for free. Another I have a website which
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 3: is the Cunning farmer dot com. We're just getting it going,
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 3: but it's up. We have some stuff on there. We're
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 3: gonna put more merch. We're gonna put talismans, we're gonna
• 1:45:10
  Speaker 3: put herbs, We're gonna put oils and incenses and stuff
• 1:45:13
  Speaker 3: we make. As soon as we get a little break
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 3: from the farm to get some stuff up there. We're
• 1:45:16
  Speaker 3: super busy and picking tomatoes and all kinds of stuff
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 3: right now. The other thing I'm doing is a course
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 3: based on my book, like a book study course, and
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 3: you can find out more about it on my substack
• 1:45:28
  Speaker 3: or on my website, the Cunning Farmer dot com. The
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 3: course starts in on September sixth, so there's still time
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 3: to sign up. I've still got a few spaces available,
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 3: and we're gonna go through the book chapter by chapter,
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 3: basically one chapter a week, and go in depth on
• 1:45:47
  Speaker 3: the chapter. I'll have a I'll have a talk where
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 3: I explain some of the more difficult concepts in the
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 3: chapter and take questions and answers, and it'll be about
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 3: an hour hour and a half, I mean, depends on
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 3: how long people want to ask questions for. I think
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 3: I think I block out, you know, forty five minutes
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 3: or so for talking for my lecture an hour and
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 3: then some time for questions and answers, because I'm pretty
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 3: sure people want to want to bounce some ideas off
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 3: me based on the chapter, so I'm keeping it. It's
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 3: not gonna be too big, but we so we only
• 1:46:15
  Speaker 3: have a few spaces left that people want to sign
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 3: up for.
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 1: That.
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 4: That's nice, man, check out my book.
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I have something on my on my Facebook,
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 3: my Instagram, and they can find out about it by
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 3: following any of those any of those things and if
• 1:46:32
  Speaker 3: you mind putting them show notes or whatever.
• 1:46:34
  Speaker 2: I was just going to say, email me the links
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 2: for all of the stuff you want me to share,
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 2: and I'll throw it into the show notes after I
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 2: get it.
• 1:46:40
  Speaker 3: Absolutely, And they can get my book from the Cunning Farmer,
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 3: A very Magical Practices Mythology and Folklore where I explore
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 3: all these ideas and depth there.
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 4: Thank you so much.
• 1:46:50
  Speaker 1: Look at that on top of it, he's already throwing
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 1: it in the chat. Yeah. I'll still take it from
• 1:46:54
  Speaker 1: me though, if you don't mind answer the show and.
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 3: There's there's Saturn and Binah.
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well anything else, anything else you want to mention.
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 3: Now, you're great. Thank you so much for having me
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 3: on the show. It was really awesome.
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 1: That was again for me. I was I love this
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 1: stuff to talk about, so you know.
• 1:47:16
  Speaker 3: And just shoot me, shoot me at time and and.
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 1: Uh le can happen again for sure.
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, let me know what it's gonna be on, and
• 1:47:22
  Speaker 3: I'll share it with with my followers and oh cool,
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 3: we'll get trying to get everybody listen to your show.
• 1:47:28
  Speaker 1: Which is great. Thank you.
• 1:47:30
  Speaker 4: I'm going to go out and.
• 1:47:31
  Speaker 3: Drive the tractor and listen to it. Getting started one
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 3: of your more recent ones. It sounded fascinating, right.
• 1:47:37
  Speaker 1: All right, cool, thank you. I appreciate that. And again
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 1: everybody in the chat, thank you for thank you for joining.
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 1: I appreciate it.
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 3: That's why I go along with the one on Sacred
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 3: It was the one Sacred Mysteries and Secret any Sacred singles,
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 3: Ancient Mysteries and Secret Dollars. I just getting started on
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 3: that one. This they pulled up with eighty bales of
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 3: hey that I had to get.
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 2: Oh man, that's so far, tell me that all right, yeah,
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 2: so all right, let me just wrap it up. Yeah,
• 1:48:06
  Speaker 2: everybody in the chat, thank you. That's what's up. I
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 2: appreciate it. That's where we go live and until the
• 1:48:10
  Speaker 2: next one, everybody be well later