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The Real Reason Trump Just Ended Massie's Career · Unshaken & Unafraid with Joe Pags

0:00
Speaker 1: Do you know, because I really don't what happened between
0:03
Speaker 1: Thomas Massey and President Donald Trump. Trump actually endorsed him
0:07
Speaker 1: not that long ago, but now there's not only a
0:10
Speaker 1: falling out, but there's like a deep seated hatred and
0:13
Speaker 1: we're gonna get to the bottom of it right now
0:15
Speaker 1: with Khill. Okay, I've been watching this. I do politics
0:18
Speaker 1: for a living, as you know, I do news and information.
0:20
Speaker 1: I have no clue. Thomas Massey was a guy that
0:23
Speaker 1: Charlie Kirk loved, that Donald Trump actually endorsed, and now
0:27
Speaker 1: they're like polar opposites, allegedly on the same side. What
0:30
Speaker 1: the deep happened?
0:34
Speaker 2: Great question. I think what happened was Thomas Massey from
0:39
Speaker 2: all my research show and this is not an endorsement,
0:41
Speaker 2: but Thomas Massey he stuck to his guns, and his
0:45
Speaker 2: guns did not align with what Trump is doing in
0:48
Speaker 2: this current administration. Like it's such a complex issue when
0:52
Speaker 2: you dig into all the weeds of it, et cetera,
0:55
Speaker 2: et cetera. Thomas Massey is a complex guy when you
0:58
Speaker 2: really dig into his background. But yeah, no, I think
1:02
Speaker 2: there's no one answer. But if there had to be
1:04
Speaker 2: one thing, maybe that he did he was. He was
1:09
Speaker 2: not that loyal to Trump like he was loyal to
1:12
Speaker 2: Thomas Massey. And that just isn't going to fly in
1:15
Speaker 2: this administration.
1:16
Speaker 1: And there's nothing wrong with that. You don't have to
1:18
Speaker 1: be loyal to a fault with Donald Trump. But you
1:20
Speaker 1: got the leader of the party. You and I can
1:22
Speaker 1: agree that Donald Trump is the leader of the Republican Party, period,
1:24
Speaker 1: end of story. That's who he is today as we
1:27
Speaker 1: do this interview, Thomas Massey is in the Republican Party.
1:30
Speaker 1: He votes with Trump between seventy and ninety percent of
1:33
Speaker 1: the time. I'm having a hard time locking down exactly
1:36
Speaker 1: how often he does. He doesn't have to kiss Trump's
1:38
Speaker 1: rear end or his ring, but why not circle the
1:40
Speaker 1: wagons and do what the leader of the party wants
1:43
Speaker 1: for the most part, because there are a few things
1:45
Speaker 1: that jump out and I want to go down the list,
1:47
Speaker 1: and I want you because I know that you've been
1:48
Speaker 1: studying this. Is it about Epstein? Is it about the
1:51
Speaker 1: one big beautiful bill spending too much money? Is it
1:53
Speaker 1: about the war in Ukraine? Is it about our stance
1:56
Speaker 1: with Israel? Is it all of that? There is there
1:59
Speaker 1: one thing that jumps at you as you've researched this
2:02
Speaker 1: relationship that made it go this hour that quickly.
2:07
Speaker 2: Okay, short answer, I think it's all of those things.
2:09
Speaker 2: But Joe, we also have to look back, you know.
2:12
Speaker 2: I think a lot of people think Thomas Massey is
2:15
Speaker 2: this new face in politics. He's not only been in
2:18
Speaker 2: politics since I think he sold I think he sold
2:21
Speaker 2: his company for like thirty million dollars or something back
2:25
Speaker 2: in the early two thousands. He only ran it for
2:27
Speaker 2: about five years before he sold it for I think
2:30
Speaker 2: it was something yet in the thirty million dollar range
2:34
Speaker 2: right there. So once he sold that tech company from
2:37
Speaker 2: a piece of tech that he developed, that was sort
2:40
Speaker 2: of uh, his early adulthood, that's what he did to
2:43
Speaker 2: make his money, he immediately got into politics. I mean
2:46
Speaker 2: there was maybe a couple of years right there where
2:49
Speaker 2: he really dallied around and did the whole farm thing.
2:52
Speaker 2: But he basically went from millionaire straight into politics. So
2:56
Speaker 2: he's been I think he was first elected to con
3:00
Speaker 2: Gros back in twenty twelve, twenty thirteen, right around that
3:03
Speaker 2: sort of Tea party moment back when you know, yeah,
3:07
Speaker 2: it was very like he was very much of the
3:10
Speaker 2: old guard trying to become the New Guard at the time.
3:15
Speaker 2: Like I think all of us remember that sort of
3:17
Speaker 2: post two thousand and eight moment when a bunch of
3:20
Speaker 2: people like Thomas Massey tried to be this whole like
3:24
Speaker 2: libertarian for the people type Republican that actually resonates better
3:29
Speaker 2: with young people today than it did with most voters
3:32
Speaker 2: and certainly engaged voters at the time. So he's been
3:36
Speaker 2: in politics now for like sixteen years. He's very much
3:40
Speaker 2: stuck to his guns on what he thinks is right
3:42
Speaker 2: or wrong. He has always been pretty anti Israel. Like
3:46
Speaker 2: you can just look back at his voting record, he's
3:48
Speaker 2: been very anti Israel. My friend Chrissy Clark actually did
3:52
Speaker 2: a great video on Thomas Massey. He seems to be
3:55
Speaker 2: all talk and no trousers when it comes to the
3:57
Speaker 2: Epstein stuff. Like, yes, he pushing it. Yes, he says
4:01
Speaker 2: he's got these names, he's got the list, but like
4:05
Speaker 2: all the other people who claim they've got the names,
4:07
Speaker 2: they've got the list, he's not releasing it. And now
4:10
Speaker 2: you can argue that he's not releasing it because you
4:13
Speaker 2: know the legal implications for him, but he also said,
4:16
Speaker 2: you know, because like people will sue, blah blah, blah whatever.
4:19
Speaker 2: But then again, if he's got the list and these
4:22
Speaker 2: people on the list are legit, if they sue, everything
4:24
Speaker 2: that they've done will come out in discovery. So isn't
4:28
Speaker 2: it going to be a win for him? If he
4:29
Speaker 2: doesn't it is, let's do it.
4:31
Speaker 1: Let's do a deep dive on that. I'm glad you
4:33
Speaker 1: went there. It's k Hill. Go follow katesmith Hill dot com.
4:36
Speaker 1: See her on Newsmaxico followery thing she does. Thomas Massey
4:40
Speaker 1: has the protection of speaking in the House chamber. If
4:44
Speaker 1: he speaks at a microphone in the house chamber, he
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Speaker 1: cannot be sued. He's got full immunity anybody who does.
4:49
Speaker 1: Why do you think these idiots like AOC say whatever
4:51
Speaker 1: they want elon Omar rashieta Talib. They say anything they
4:54
Speaker 1: want and they get away with it because they are
4:57
Speaker 1: covered by the legal loophole that's says, say anything you want.
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Speaker 1: You can't be sued for defamation, for libel, for slander,
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Speaker 1: for anything. They've got full immunity. So Thomas Massey, should
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Speaker 1: he have a list, can go on a microphone today
5:11
Speaker 1: kay in that chamber. He's still in the house and
5:13
Speaker 1: he can say any name he wants. He could say
5:14
Speaker 1: Donald Trump, you can say Kay Hill, say any name
5:17
Speaker 1: he wants, and nobody can sue him. He's got full immunity.
5:20
Speaker 1: So what you just said is a very very good question.
5:23
Speaker 1: Why hasn't he done it? Because right before I started
5:25
Speaker 1: this interview something popped up on MSN for some reason.
5:28
Speaker 1: It's my homepage. I don't know why, but it popped up.
5:30
Speaker 1: Thomas Massey says, of course, Malanna, you knows Epstein. I'm like,
5:34
Speaker 1: this guy is like he's going scorched earth. So why
5:37
Speaker 1: hasn't he done that yet? Is he full of it?
5:40
Speaker 1: Is he gonna do that before he leaves? What do
5:41
Speaker 1: you think the story is? Because many are trying to
5:44
Speaker 1: make this rivalry between him and Trump about Epstein. I
5:48
Speaker 1: don't think it is. I think Epstein came later. I
5:50
Speaker 1: think that this is about spending. I think this is
5:52
Speaker 1: about war. I think this is about just disagreeing on
5:55
Speaker 1: conservative values that mean you spend less and you manage
5:58
Speaker 1: a budget. But Massey now is exploding this because I
6:01
Speaker 1: think he's getting a lot of attention, So focus only
6:03
Speaker 1: on Epstein. Why hasn't he done it yet?
6:06
Speaker 2: If he's got the names, I mean that's the billion
6:09
Speaker 2: dollar question, Joe, Why hasn't he done it. I didn't
6:12
Speaker 2: know that there was even that kind of I didn't
6:14
Speaker 2: realize the level of protection. Speaking on the floor, you
6:17
Speaker 2: are actually yeah. So firstly, everyone knows that Milania new Epstein.
6:22
Speaker 2: There's literally been photos of them out forever, like that's
6:26
Speaker 2: not new news. I do think it's ridiculous him going
6:31
Speaker 2: scorched earth over this issue when, like you said, there
6:34
Speaker 2: are so many other issues that he could and maybe
6:37
Speaker 2: he even should go scorched earth over. There's a lot
6:39
Speaker 2: of things happening in the country right now that most
6:42
Speaker 2: people outside of you know, DC actually care about, you know,
6:48
Speaker 2: war and spending being two of them. But if we
6:51
Speaker 2: look at just Epstein, I think the only reason that
6:54
Speaker 2: he hasn't released it yet is because the headlines that
6:58
Speaker 2: he will get when he does. I hate the fact
7:01
Speaker 2: that he is politicizing this, but I think if we
7:04
Speaker 2: are looking at it from a you know, the fact
7:07
Speaker 2: that he is going to need headlines at some point
7:09
Speaker 2: in the future, you know, for anyone who doesn't know
7:11
Speaker 2: who's listening. Thomas Massey, who claimed that he would never
7:15
Speaker 2: be in politics again if he got booted, has also
7:18
Speaker 2: filed to run potentially in twenty twenty eight, and he's
7:21
Speaker 2: now fundraising to run. So what am I to think
7:25
Speaker 2: of this guy?
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Speaker 1: Have you in your research on this, and thank you
7:28
Speaker 1: for doing researching here with the best research right now?
7:32
Speaker 1: Have you figured out what Thomas Massey well, who he
7:35
Speaker 1: really is on a personal level. And here's why I
7:38
Speaker 1: ask the hit back on Massey, because again he complained
7:42
Speaker 1: about Trump politically generally, but then started getting to the
7:44
Speaker 1: Epstein stuff, which got weird. Then immediately we find out, well,
7:48
Speaker 1: his wife died and two months later he's in a
7:50
Speaker 1: relationship taking people to South Africa for some reason, and
7:54
Speaker 1: then he wanted this woman to do some weird things
7:56
Speaker 1: according to her. She's out there speaking now, this woman
7:58
Speaker 1: that he was dating, and then he dumped her or
8:00
Speaker 1: she dumped him, and then he married somebody else within
8:02
Speaker 1: a couple of days. I don't know what the story
8:04
Speaker 1: is other than they're questioning him personally. So do you
8:08
Speaker 1: think he's got so much on them politically and publicly
8:11
Speaker 1: that they want to shut him up by going after
8:13
Speaker 1: him personally? And again I'm not on Massy's side here.
8:15
Speaker 1: I think that you should rally around the leader of
8:17
Speaker 1: the party if you want to have a successful party.
8:19
Speaker 1: The Democrats always they rallied around Swallwall until they had
8:22
Speaker 1: to drag him out of the house. You know what
8:24
Speaker 1: I mean, they rallied around. They're still rallying around elon
8:26
Speaker 1: Omar and she might not even be an American citizen
8:29
Speaker 1: according to some reports. So why why do you think
8:32
Speaker 1: they went personal on MASSI to bring up his wife
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Speaker 1: died and he's dating this person and this woman's now
8:36
Speaker 1: giving interviews. Why did they go there? Do you think.
8:40
Speaker 2: That is the political landscape that we live in today, Joe?
8:43
Speaker 2: I think if this was ten years ago, they wouldn't
8:46
Speaker 2: have gone after him. But at the end of the day,
8:48
Speaker 2: we're kind of desensitized as a people to some pretty disgusting, corrupt,
8:54
Speaker 2: messed up, insane levels of stuff. Let's be honest, Like
8:58
Speaker 2: you just have to look at even even fictional media
9:01
Speaker 2: has gone so insane and we still believe it. And
9:03
Speaker 2: so when you've got a desensitized population, who you know,
9:08
Speaker 2: like again, ten years ago, yeah, maybe they would have
9:11
Speaker 2: Maybe that would have been enough to say, oh, he
9:13
Speaker 2: started dating someone so soon after his wife died. I
9:15
Speaker 2: actually know a lot of widowers who've done that. It's
9:19
Speaker 2: a very strange trend that occurs. I don't want to
9:22
Speaker 2: digress on it, but the science behind it is actually
9:24
Speaker 2: kind of fascinating.
9:25
Speaker 1: Well, men generally speaking, are used to getting taken care of.
9:29
Speaker 1: I don't listen to you found somebody and fall in
9:31
Speaker 1: love whatever, it's none of my business. But then the
9:33
Speaker 1: woman comes out and she's talking about he wanted to
9:36
Speaker 1: do weird things and she had to tell him to stop.
9:38
Speaker 1: And it didn't go from he found another partner. It
9:43
Speaker 1: went to he became some nut job in the bedroom.
9:46
Speaker 1: And again I don't need to be in his bedroom.
9:48
Speaker 1: So you think they went there because it was easy pickings.
9:51
Speaker 2: I think they threw the book at him. I think
9:53
Speaker 2: it was one of a lot of things they just
9:55
Speaker 2: wanted to get rid of him. He was against the
9:57
Speaker 2: one big beautiful Bill. He's against Israel, he's against uh,
10:01
Speaker 2: pretty much all of the military, the Iran war, but
10:05
Speaker 2: all military interventions that we're getting involved with. You know,
10:08
Speaker 2: like I just looked at the news against saor Trump
10:10
Speaker 2: is now committing ground troops to Europe. I can't imagine
10:14
Speaker 2: Massy would have gotten behind that. And you know, Thomas
10:16
Speaker 2: Massey even said today and again this is non endorsement
10:19
Speaker 2: just because I'm a uh maybe I used to be
10:22
Speaker 2: a younger person. But younger voters, the sort of the
10:25
Speaker 2: under forties millennial voters, they still align with pretty much
10:30
Speaker 2: everything Thomas Massey is about. And so in the same way,
10:33
Speaker 2: I'm glad you brought up Eric Swalwell, I think in
10:35
Speaker 2: the same way that the Democrats rallied behind Swalwell up
10:39
Speaker 2: until they needed to get rid of him. It's exactly
10:42
Speaker 2: the same sort of playbook that we're seeing with Massy.
10:45
Speaker 2: And you know, he had a lot more that he
10:47
Speaker 2: had done that was anti Trump, anti the sort of
10:50
Speaker 2: like quote straight line Maga movement. He's far more America first,
10:55
Speaker 2: if we're putting labels on it in terms of his politics,
10:58
Speaker 2: in terms of his rhetoric and his act or even
11:00
Speaker 2: lack thereof when it comes to the Epstein stuff. But again,
11:03
Speaker 2: I still think he's going to hold onto those Epstein
11:05
Speaker 2: things until he can use it to politically support himself,
11:10
Speaker 2: and that will be down the line. He doesn't need
11:12
Speaker 2: to do that right now. That needs to be something
11:14
Speaker 2: when he wants to grab headlines, maybe closer towards twenty
11:17
Speaker 2: twenty eight, if he does run. And so I think,
11:20
Speaker 2: you know, looking at the sort of sum of Thomas
11:23
Speaker 2: Massey as a whole, and what really kind of nailed
11:26
Speaker 2: him was the fact that he who's probably too vocal,
11:30
Speaker 2: too much, too anti Trump and anti everything that Trump
11:34
Speaker 2: is trying to do under this current administration and right
11:38
Speaker 2: now with all of the issues, Joe, because it's not
11:41
Speaker 2: just like war, it's not just the economy, it's not
11:44
Speaker 2: just spending our relationships with our people who weren't once
11:48
Speaker 2: our allies but now aren't even really anymore. Like we're
11:51
Speaker 2: in a very fragile state as a nation. And when
11:55
Speaker 2: you have that kind of like infighting within the party,
12:00
Speaker 2: it's just not going to work. It's just really not
12:02
Speaker 2: gonna work. It doesn't matter if you're a Republican or Democrat.
12:04
Speaker 2: I still want to know what Eric Hallwell really did
12:07
Speaker 2: to get the boot as hard as he did. But
12:08
Speaker 2: I think for Thomas Massey it was just so obvious
12:11
Speaker 2: and to get rid of him wasn't that hard. You
12:14
Speaker 2: just had to throw a lot at him, because we're
12:17
Speaker 2: a this desensitized population, because you couldn't just go after
12:21
Speaker 2: him with one or two things. And when you listen
12:23
Speaker 2: to voters who went out against him again, predominantly older
12:28
Speaker 2: voters who basically said no more Thomas Massey in his district.
12:32
Speaker 2: It was all because he didn't support Trump. There was
12:35
Speaker 2: that simple. But you had to throw a lot of
12:37
Speaker 2: things at him to get rid of him to get
12:39
Speaker 2: to that point in people's minds on the On the Trump.
12:43
Speaker 1: Side, I think the split clearly is over one big
12:45
Speaker 1: beautiful bill. That is Trump's legislation. That is his premier
12:49
Speaker 1: thing he wanted to get done. He didn't reconciliation, he bypassed.
12:52
Speaker 1: They worry about a filibuster. He got. He got funding
12:55
Speaker 1: to to close the border, funding to to pay for
12:58
Speaker 1: ice in CBP, he got the ability to have no
13:01
Speaker 1: tax on tips, no tax on overtime, a tax deduction
13:05
Speaker 1: on Social Security, and Thomas Massey just didn't like the spending.
13:09
Speaker 1: I wish they would have behind closed doors, sat down
13:12
Speaker 1: and hashed that out instead of Massy being openly against it.
13:15
Speaker 1: Because when Trump sees that, he's going to attack you
13:19
Speaker 1: until you're a pulp and he hasn't stopped doing that.
13:22
Speaker 1: And for some reason Massey shifted from we're arguing about
13:25
Speaker 1: conservatism and being physically responsible to Epstein. Epstein Epstein, and
13:30
Speaker 1: then MTG joins them, Marjorie Taylor Green and then some
13:33
Speaker 1: other you know, former MAGA people are suddenly on that
13:36
Speaker 1: side too. So I mean, I think that's what the
13:39
Speaker 1: split is about. In your research into this, do you
13:42
Speaker 1: agree that that was the beginning of the end of
13:44
Speaker 1: any relationship that you this is my one big, beautiful Billain,
13:48
Speaker 1: I need you on board, and he just wasn't.
13:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it was the absolute beginning of the end.
13:53
Speaker 2: And I think the other thing about Thomas Massey, more
13:56
Speaker 2: so than people like Mark, like Thomas Massey was not
13:59
Speaker 2: a poet rising person like Marjorie Table. Pretty much everyone
14:03
Speaker 2: looked at Thomas Massey and like, I mean not around
14:06
Speaker 2: where I live, because I live in like an actual
14:09
Speaker 2: agricultural community. He lives on. You know, Joe, I don't
14:13
Speaker 2: know if you've seen it, but there's a documentary out
14:15
Speaker 2: on Thomas Massey and his farm and how he likes
14:17
Speaker 2: to live and you know how it's John and I
14:21
Speaker 2: started watching it and we're from you know, like we
14:24
Speaker 2: actually own farmland, we actually live in a farming community.
14:28
Speaker 2: Like this is something that we do outside or certainly
14:30
Speaker 2: something that we Yeah, it's something that we do outside
14:34
Speaker 2: of my writing and news media work, and we were
14:36
Speaker 2: watching the way this guy lives and we were like,
14:38
Speaker 2: you got to have a lot of money. You've got
14:39
Speaker 2: to have a lot of money to live the sort
14:42
Speaker 2: of rural, agricultural lifestyle that this guy lives, and it
14:46
Speaker 2: didn't really feel like that authentic when he's talking about like, oh,
14:49
Speaker 2: you know what happens in my holla like stays in
14:52
Speaker 2: you know what happens in yours? Blah blah. He has
14:54
Speaker 2: this very like whimsical way about him, and so when
14:57
Speaker 2: you live in that kind of community and you a multimillionaire,
15:01
Speaker 2: it almost feels like a little bit of a parade,
15:03
Speaker 2: Like it doesn't feel like that genuine. It might have
15:05
Speaker 2: started out genuine, you know, he comes from pretty blue
15:08
Speaker 2: collar roots, but you know, when you've made millions of
15:12
Speaker 2: dollars and become like the sort of star child of
15:14
Speaker 2: Mit and you're a complete freaking nerd and then you
15:17
Speaker 2: get back into it, it does come across kind of disingenuous.
15:21
Speaker 2: And so he has this very you know, anti polarizing
15:26
Speaker 2: nature about him where he's easy to trust if you
15:30
Speaker 2: don't necessarily if you're not going to look into it
15:32
Speaker 2: as deeply, as you know I would, or you know,
15:35
Speaker 2: someone who does what I do for a living would,
15:37
Speaker 2: And so I think that that was such a huge
15:40
Speaker 2: threat for Trump because the minute that Thomas Massey stood
15:43
Speaker 2: up and said I don't like stuff in this big,
15:45
Speaker 2: beautiful bill, real Americans turned around and said, oh wait what,
15:50
Speaker 2: Because this guy who has done basically everything to support,
15:54
Speaker 2: you know, what is essentially the American dream, who's living
15:57
Speaker 2: the American dream in many ways. And you've got to
15:59
Speaker 2: remember this is under the context of more younger voters
16:02
Speaker 2: who really want Thomas Massey's lifestyle, like the movement towards
16:06
Speaker 2: homesteading even put people in cities. That is, the end
16:09
Speaker 2: goal in the dream is to be able to live
16:11
Speaker 2: sort of somewhat self sustainably, to not really have the
16:14
Speaker 2: government that involved in what happens in your backyard, and
16:18
Speaker 2: to live a more sort of live in a way
16:21
Speaker 2: where or not as dependent on government. And so when
16:24
Speaker 2: you see someone who actually is kind of living that way,
16:27
Speaker 2: albeit with the caveat of being a multi millionaire, you know,
16:31
Speaker 2: a lot of it is perked up and started saying, well,
16:33
Speaker 2: maybe maybe this Thomas Massey guy, who seems so sweet
16:37
Speaker 2: and so whimsical and so anti polarizing as a Republican like,
16:41
Speaker 2: and so left leaning on so many things that make sense,
16:45
Speaker 2: but so right leaning on the others that make sense.
16:47
Speaker 2: Maybe we need to be listening to this guy because
16:49
Speaker 2: he's clearly someone of like high moral character and high aptitude.
16:54
Speaker 2: And you know, if everyone likes him and he's scared,
16:58
Speaker 2: should we all be scared to And so that kind
17:00
Speaker 2: of thought process really percolates down into the voter class.
17:05
Speaker 2: And so for Trump, that obviously is his biggest threat
17:08
Speaker 2: right now, because he's not going to be able to
17:10
Speaker 2: have a third term. So he has to groom who's
17:13
Speaker 2: ever going to carry on the mega movement and pray
17:16
Speaker 2: that that person is voted in in twenty twenty eight.
17:20
Speaker 2: And so getting rid of the people the sort of
17:22
Speaker 2: naysayers within the party who aren't aligning with Trump on
17:26
Speaker 2: something as expansive as the Big Beautiful Bill, and someone
17:29
Speaker 2: who's also going out and educating the public on why
17:32
Speaker 2: they maybe shouldn't be as supportive of the one Big
17:35
Speaker 2: Beautiful Bill. I mean, it was just the perfect storm, Joe.
17:39
Speaker 2: There was no way Thomas Massew was going to survive this. Internally,
17:42
Speaker 2: there was no way he was going to survive it. Externally,
17:45
Speaker 2: he's probably painted himself into a corner where I don't
17:48
Speaker 2: think he's winning any kind of primary in twenty twenty eight,
17:50
Speaker 2: but he might be able to get some backers to
17:53
Speaker 2: support him. I don't know, but I do know that
17:56
Speaker 2: no other Republican is going to go against the MAGA
17:58
Speaker 2: mindset now because they know that they will lose everything,
18:02
Speaker 2: even the confidence of the people who used to love them.
18:05
Speaker 1: It is K Hill. Go follow her everywhere, casemif Hill
18:07
Speaker 1: dot com, Go follow her on x K Hill, Go
18:10
Speaker 1: see her on Newsmax. Great researcher, great great in depth reporter,
18:14
Speaker 1: been on the show, A long time, great friend of mine.
18:16
Speaker 1: Let's talk about the age divide. Since Charlie Kirk was assassinated,
18:20
Speaker 1: everybody's co opting him. Everybody says he was my guy.
18:24
Speaker 1: MTG says he was my guy. I know that he
18:26
Speaker 1: liked Thomas Massey a lot. When he had him on,
18:28
Speaker 1: he said, I love Thomas Massey, the US representative from Kentucky,
18:31
Speaker 1: and then he was on Charlie's show with him. Charlie
18:34
Speaker 1: was certainly a friend of mine, at least professionally. We
18:36
Speaker 1: texted all the time was on the show six times.
18:39
Speaker 1: I'm not for what MTG is doing, but she's co
18:41
Speaker 1: opting him. Everybody's trying to act like they're the ones
18:44
Speaker 1: that try. Candice Owens wants us to believe that she's
18:47
Speaker 1: the only person who cares about what really happened to Charlie,
18:50
Speaker 1: So everybody's trying to co opt him posthumously, and I
18:53
Speaker 1: think it's kind of disgusting, I'll be honest with you,
18:55
Speaker 1: But there were a lot of young people out there
18:56
Speaker 1: that woke up to politics because of Charlie, not because
18:59
Speaker 1: it turned point because of Charlie. Because that guy was
19:02
Speaker 1: able to straddle the fence and bring people from both
19:05
Speaker 1: sides and have conversations that was very, very necessary, and
19:08
Speaker 1: then he hit them with conservative American values and people
19:11
Speaker 1: woke up to it. Nobody's really doing that right now,
19:14
Speaker 1: So long question short when it comes to the Charlie
19:19
Speaker 1: presence in politics right now, and it's huge. It's a
19:22
Speaker 1: bigger presence now than it was when he was alive.
19:24
Speaker 1: Who wins that? Because I knew you were telling people
19:27
Speaker 1: before we started today that young people kind of lean
19:29
Speaker 1: toward Messy and older people lean toward Trump. So what
19:33
Speaker 1: do you do about that when they both claimed Charlie, Well.
19:36
Speaker 2: I think everyone claims Charlie because he was everyone wasn't
19:41
Speaker 2: he like, didn't he speak for the American just the
19:45
Speaker 2: American public, the American Christian.
19:47
Speaker 1: Yes, And.
19:50
Speaker 2: I just sorry, I was just having like a flashback,
19:52
Speaker 2: like the day he was assassinated. Every single young person
19:57
Speaker 2: you got to understand Joe. Millennials in particular, who worn
20:00
Speaker 2: sort of late eighties to like early nineties, we were there.
20:04
Speaker 2: Our first collective memory was the day Diana was killed,
20:08
Speaker 2: probably killed by you know, under nefarious circumstances, whether you
20:13
Speaker 2: believe the mainstream story or not. You've got the events
20:17
Speaker 2: of nine to eleven, which you know was really our
20:20
Speaker 2: coming of age story that led straight into the war
20:23
Speaker 2: in Iraq, which was done under a massive lie. All
20:27
Speaker 2: of it was done under a huge lie. Then you've
20:30
Speaker 2: got the two thousand and eight financial crisis, where we saw,
20:33
Speaker 2: like I lost my job in two thousand and eight.
20:35
Speaker 2: I know people whose families lost absolutely everything in two
20:38
Speaker 2: thousand and eight. I mean everyone was impacted by it.
20:42
Speaker 2: Then we had this beautiful kind of moment in I
20:46
Speaker 2: would say sort of like twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen, that
20:48
Speaker 2: started giving us hope again under that first Trump administration.
20:52
Speaker 2: And I don't think I mean I was anti Trump
20:55
Speaker 2: up until probably like a year that he wasn't after
20:58
Speaker 2: he was in office, because like most millennials, I was,
21:01
Speaker 2: you know, reading the mainstream news media that I had
21:03
Speaker 2: trusted forever. We used to get all of our information
21:06
Speaker 2: on social media, and we thought that he was the Antichrist,
21:10
Speaker 2: and now you kind of look at him and go,
21:12
Speaker 2: oh my god, he was saving us this whole time.
21:15
Speaker 2: And so we had this wonderful thing happened, this wonderful renaissance.
21:18
Speaker 2: Then we had a complete nosedive under Biden, which really
21:22
Speaker 2: just pulled the covers back off all of the most
21:24
Speaker 2: disgusting things that were happening across not just America and
21:29
Speaker 2: not just across politics, but in Hollywood around the world.
21:32
Speaker 2: Everyone turned around and was like, heck, no, we don't
21:35
Speaker 2: want this globalist scum. Which is why in twenty twenty,
21:38
Speaker 2: in the run up to twenty twenty, Charlie's voice was
21:42
Speaker 2: so important and so influential because he managed to touch
21:45
Speaker 2: upon not just the sort of you know, staunch Republican
21:49
Speaker 2: youth of which there weren't that many at the time,
21:51
Speaker 2: but he managed to evolve people's mindsets into this sort
21:55
Speaker 2: of wider way of thinking, like, look at all the
21:58
Speaker 2: trauma that we've been through, look at all the chaos
22:00
Speaker 2: that we've been normalized to and desensitized to as a generation.
22:05
Speaker 2: Look at these young people in the world that they're
22:07
Speaker 2: growing up in and the freedoms they can't even enjoy
22:09
Speaker 2: that we millennials enjoy that gen Z can't even enjoy.
22:12
Speaker 2: One generation below us. He said, this man and this
22:17
Speaker 2: party and this idea is going to help stop this decline.
22:22
Speaker 2: And then they killed him. And there is not a
22:25
Speaker 2: single millennial that I know. There is not a single
22:27
Speaker 2: person in the gen Z generation. I think most of
22:31
Speaker 2: the big voices online who kind of speak not for
22:35
Speaker 2: Charlie because Candice like, we can dig into like specifics
22:38
Speaker 2: and people and stuff if you want to. But the
22:40
Speaker 2: sort of like collective conversation online is that the story
22:44
Speaker 2: that we're being told about his assassination is utter. It's rubbish,
22:49
Speaker 2: Like there's no way the mainstream story that we've been
22:52
Speaker 2: told is true. Too many questions are going unanswered, there's
22:56
Speaker 2: too much weird stuff behind it that happened immediately after
23:00
Speaker 2: it that happened amongst the people around it. So I
23:04
Speaker 2: think that they, whoever it was that actually killed Charlie,
23:10
Speaker 2: they didn't take away what they thought they were going
23:13
Speaker 2: to take away. They didn't stop this sort of young
23:17
Speaker 2: American movement towards like, no, we want the America that
23:21
Speaker 2: our grandparents fought for in World War Two. We want
23:24
Speaker 2: the America that kind of existed for a minute there
23:27
Speaker 2: in the eighties, that kind of existed for a minute
23:30
Speaker 2: there in the twenty teens. We want that safety, we
23:33
Speaker 2: want that consistency, we want that financial freedom, and we
23:36
Speaker 2: want to just be Americans. We don't want to be globalists.
23:39
Speaker 2: And the sort of fire that was ignited under killing him,
23:44
Speaker 2: it just sent all of us back into those repeated
23:47
Speaker 2: traumas that we've had that have completely degraded our trust
23:50
Speaker 2: in the system. And so I think that's making it
23:53
Speaker 2: really hard for any one single voice to kind of
23:58
Speaker 2: come out and say this is the new leader of
24:00
Speaker 2: the future, this is you know, the sort of like
24:03
Speaker 2: next Charlie Kirk, if you will, that person doesn't exist
24:06
Speaker 2: because he was once in a generation Like that's.
24:09
Speaker 1: Just I agree with you, but let me stop you,
24:12
Speaker 1: because you're right on just about everything you said. The
24:14
Speaker 1: one thing that does jump out though, is I think
24:17
Speaker 1: those younger people are now are they're going to retract.
24:19
Speaker 1: I think they're going to separate themselves from politics. I
24:21
Speaker 1: don't think a lot of them are going to vote
24:22
Speaker 1: this coming November. I think that Tallerico is gonna has
24:26
Speaker 1: a good chance of sneaking in in Texas because people
24:29
Speaker 1: are not paying attention like they were. Charlie Kirk was
24:31
Speaker 1: special in how he did it, how knowledgeable he was,
24:34
Speaker 1: how much research he did before ever opening his mouth,
24:37
Speaker 1: how he stood behind his arguments, and how well he
24:39
Speaker 1: did it. The difference with Charlie is that a president
24:43
Speaker 1: Trump can claim him, and so can Thomas Massey, and
24:46
Speaker 1: there's good reason why they both can. There isn't somebody
24:49
Speaker 1: who knows how to do what he did. You and
24:51
Speaker 1: I can probably say what it was that he did,
24:54
Speaker 1: But is there a person that can do it?
24:55
Speaker 2: No.
24:55
Speaker 1: Ben Shapiro was one hundred percent Israel period. He's not
24:58
Speaker 1: the next guy, you know, you know what I mean?
25:00
Speaker 1: Or as Charlie was unafraid to say, I'm not happy
25:02
Speaker 1: with what Israel did today, although I love Israel, you
25:04
Speaker 1: know what I mean? He was able to balance that.
25:06
Speaker 1: Candace is the CIA is following me around and they
25:09
Speaker 1: want to take me out. I mean, Jayah, she's cuckoo,
25:12
Speaker 1: So I mean she's not going to be able to
25:13
Speaker 1: do it. I don't know who that person is. I
25:15
Speaker 1: don't know that it has to be a person. I
25:17
Speaker 1: wish that we as a society learned that the way
25:20
Speaker 1: that Charlie did it was the best way to possibly
25:24
Speaker 1: do it, because he was able to sit down with
25:26
Speaker 1: people who said they hated him, people who said he
25:28
Speaker 1: was a racist, people who said he was a misogynist,
25:30
Speaker 1: people who said he was an islamophobe, all this stuff,
25:33
Speaker 1: and he was able to have the conversations. They walked away.
25:35
Speaker 1: They all cried when he died. K I mean, Dean Withers,
25:39
Speaker 1: this idiot on the left cried when Charlie Kirk died.
25:43
Speaker 1: And he could not stand Charlie Kirk because they weren't
25:45
Speaker 1: opposite ends politically. He was able to do that because
25:49
Speaker 1: of his personality. But we're not even looking. You and
25:52
Speaker 1: I are, But I think most people watching and listening
25:54
Speaker 1: aren't looking at how he did it. He went to freakin' Yale. No,
25:58
Speaker 1: he went to Oxford in England. And had people screaming
26:02
Speaker 1: and crying and laughing and clapping every time somebody sent
26:05
Speaker 1: an insult to him, and he smoked them all just
26:08
Speaker 1: by staying to the facts. He stood there tall, literally tall,
26:12
Speaker 1: but also a tall figure to where nobody has yet
26:16
Speaker 1: figured out why he was so great, And that really
26:19
Speaker 1: bothers me. Massey and Trump should be getting together and
26:22
Speaker 1: talking it out. That should happen. MTG and Trump should
26:25
Speaker 1: be getting together and talking it out, not just spewing hate.
26:28
Speaker 1: You know, I met MTG at Trump's house me she
26:31
Speaker 1: she was the biggest MAGA person on the planet. I
26:33
Speaker 1: met Matt Gates there, who Now there seems to be
26:36
Speaker 1: some division there too. Did we just and by we
26:39
Speaker 1: I me collectively because you and I get it, but
26:41
Speaker 1: and a lot of people watching listening get it. Did
26:43
Speaker 1: we collectively as a people in this country forget what
26:47
Speaker 1: made him so great? Nice guy, played basketball, had a
26:51
Speaker 1: couple of great kids, and he was married. I mean
26:53
Speaker 1: all that's personally he was a good guy. But publicly
26:56
Speaker 1: his forward looking public persona, have we noticed what it
27:01
Speaker 1: was he was doing? Really? Because those who think they
27:04
Speaker 1: could be the next Charlie Kay are failing miserably on
27:07
Speaker 1: both sides.
27:08
Speaker 2: They are they are failing miserably. And I think, Joe,
27:12
Speaker 2: all of those conversations between Thomas Massey, between Marjorie Taylor
27:16
Speaker 2: Green and Trump, I think all of those conversations almost
27:18
Speaker 2: certainly would have happened if Charlie was still here today,
27:22
Speaker 2: because he was one of the few people who would
27:24
Speaker 2: have been able to go to Trump, to go to
27:25
Speaker 2: Thomas Massey and say, hey, listen, we can all get along,
27:29
Speaker 2: we can all get through this, but we have to
27:30
Speaker 2: work together on this messaging to keep us united. And listen.
27:35
Speaker 2: I think that there's a lot of nefarious actors who
27:37
Speaker 2: will go out of their way to kind of sow
27:40
Speaker 2: derision amongst the American population. But I don't think what
27:43
Speaker 2: a lot of these actors realize is how powerful that
27:47
Speaker 2: sort of millennial and under movement is, because, yeah, Joe,
27:51
Speaker 2: you're right, people are switching off to this stuff. If
27:53
Speaker 2: you know, if you're a sort of boomer or older
27:56
Speaker 2: in general, you're going to be watching just clear mainstream
28:00
Speaker 2: news media, hopefully not Fox, but probably almost definitely Fox,
28:05
Speaker 2: where you're going to get a very one sided look
28:08
Speaker 2: at what's going on in the world right now. And
28:10
Speaker 2: that's not just it's not just Fox, it's CNN, it's MSNBC,
28:13
Speaker 2: it's any kind of mainstream traditional news media like that
28:17
Speaker 2: that's still you know, trying to be part of the zeitgeist.
28:21
Speaker 2: Young people don't watch that stuff. Younger people are tuning
28:24
Speaker 2: into podcasters. They're finally getting out and going back and
28:29
Speaker 2: hanging out with their friends, which you know, they try
28:31
Speaker 2: to kill during COVID, but we're finally getting back over it.
28:35
Speaker 2: I think a lot of young people are far more,
28:39
Speaker 2: far more like Charlie than the mainstream news media, and
28:44
Speaker 2: maybe even you know, politicians really want to believe and
28:47
Speaker 2: want to think. Like when I look at everyone that
28:50
Speaker 2: I know in my age demographic, I can you know
28:54
Speaker 2: that every single different political affiliation under the sun, different
28:58
Speaker 2: issues impact like all of them. There's different stuff that
29:02
Speaker 2: they care about and are willing to fight for. There's
29:04
Speaker 2: stuff that they don't really care about and they're happy
29:06
Speaker 2: to let someone else fight for it, or they just
29:08
Speaker 2: don't get involved. But I just feel like there is
29:12
Speaker 2: such a normalization happening of being able to have frank,
29:16
Speaker 2: loving conversations with people from across the political spectrum. And
29:21
Speaker 2: I'm seeing that in real life day to day, you know, interactions,
29:26
Speaker 2: and wasn't that what Charlie was all about? And so yeah,
29:31
Speaker 2: they may have killed him, but they didn't kill what
29:34
Speaker 2: made him so powerful and so influential and so normalized,
29:39
Speaker 2: not just here in America but also back in the UK.
29:42
Speaker 2: I think that his way of going about things actually
29:46
Speaker 2: lives on to this day, and there's just a lot
29:49
Speaker 2: of smoke and mirrors and maybe a lot of ignorance
29:51
Speaker 2: amongst the sort of would be power players who think
29:54
Speaker 2: that that's not the case. And that gives me a
29:57
Speaker 2: lot of hope. That gives me a lot of hope
30:00
Speaker 2: because even though there's not ever going to be someone
30:02
Speaker 2: that steps up, you know, maybe we'll have like an
30:04
Speaker 2: amalgamation of like voices like I don't know, like Joe
30:08
Speaker 2: Rogan always does pretty well when it comes to that
30:11
Speaker 2: sort of long like two hour form interviews. There's a
30:15
Speaker 2: couple of younger guys coming up. I think Carl Higbee
30:19
Speaker 2: on Newsmax as a mainstream news media voice, I think
30:22
Speaker 2: that he is so balanced and so fair and so
30:25
Speaker 2: common sense. And then of course we have the incredible,
30:28
Speaker 2: unshaken and unafraid Joe PAGs And so when we have
30:31
Speaker 2: this brilliant amalgamation of voices that are now sort of
30:34
Speaker 2: taking over in this massive void, who are coming in
30:38
Speaker 2: with the sort of fair, frank conversations between people from
30:42
Speaker 2: all different walks of life and political sort of ideologies,
30:46
Speaker 2: bringing everyone to common sense solutions. Because ultimately, that is
30:51
Speaker 2: what Charlie did. He just found the common sense and
30:54
Speaker 2: the sort of commonalities between people from all different walks
30:57
Speaker 2: of life, and he articulated them in a way that
31:00
Speaker 2: and commascending. He articulated them in a way that sort
31:02
Speaker 2: of brought everyone together. I'm seeing that happen in real life.
31:06
Speaker 2: I'm seeing it happen amongst, you know, the sort of
31:08
Speaker 2: growing population of podcasters and alternate new me news media,
31:13
Speaker 2: and there's a rise of places like Newsmax. Like I'm
31:16
Speaker 2: seeing that, Hope. I just don't know, Joe, what that
31:20
Speaker 2: translates into when it comes to twenty twenty eight, because
31:26
Speaker 2: there's that there's still that gap. Maybe we don't need
31:29
Speaker 2: a leader like Charlie, but we still need to find
31:32
Speaker 2: someone or a handful of someone's in politics who's going
31:37
Speaker 2: to perpetuate the ideals that Charlie preached. So I don't
31:41
Speaker 2: know what that means. For twenty twenty eight and that
31:42
Speaker 2: kind of scares me.
31:44
Speaker 1: It does me as well. It is Ky Hill. Go
31:46
Speaker 1: and follow her casemithil dot com. Go follow her over
31:48
Speaker 1: on Instagram, you follow her over on x You go
31:50
Speaker 1: see your own news Max all the time. Great conversation, Cal,
31:53
Speaker 1: I'll leave you with this. Charlie did not, ever, as
31:56
Speaker 1: I remember, denigrate somebody to where they he wanted to
32:00
Speaker 1: stamped them out politically. He just wanted to have the conversation.
32:03
Speaker 1: He stuck to his guns. And I mean that figuratively
32:06
Speaker 1: obviously when it came to what he believed, what he researched,
32:09
Speaker 1: what he knew. When it came to Western culture, Judeo
32:12
Speaker 1: Christian values, the Bible, he knew it backward and forward.
32:14
Speaker 1: It was crazy. And he was able to have that
32:17
Speaker 1: conversation on any level. It could be a professor, could
32:20
Speaker 1: be somebody who's just learning about the political fray, and
32:23
Speaker 1: the conversation always went to a place where a lot
32:25
Speaker 1: of people watching listening learned a ton without ever trying
32:30
Speaker 1: to again stamp somebody out politically. Candice Owens wants to
32:33
Speaker 1: end you if you don't agree with her. So does
32:35
Speaker 1: President Trump on many levels to be honest with you.
32:38
Speaker 1: And I think that Charlie was able to call Massey,
32:41
Speaker 1: he was able to call Trump, and he was able
32:43
Speaker 1: to say, this is why you two need each other.
32:45
Speaker 1: And I think that we need that right now because
32:47
Speaker 1: it's not happening right now. We're taking sides on our
32:49
Speaker 1: own side, and that's going to let a left that
32:52
Speaker 1: wants to dominate the world through progressiveness and through Islama
32:55
Speaker 1: Islamic takeover and through fill in the blank, you know,
32:58
Speaker 1: sordid socialists, communist garbage that they've been studying forever. That's
33:02
Speaker 1: going to happen and they have no agenda. People don't
33:04
Speaker 1: want that. But if you've got a nice smile and
33:06
Speaker 1: you're from Uganda and say affordability, you can get elected
33:09
Speaker 1: to the mayor of New York. We need Charlie, or
33:11
Speaker 1: at least that sense of Charlie that you listen, we're
33:14
Speaker 1: both on the same side. Okay, great, you guys hate
33:16
Speaker 1: each other for twenty percent, eighty percent we agree, let's
33:19
Speaker 1: go forward together. We're missing that right now, and I
33:21
Speaker 1: think that's what we just said for about a half
33:23
Speaker 1: an hour. Kay, you're amazing, Thanks Famelion, Thanks Joe. All Right,
33:27
Speaker 1: that's gonna do it for unshaking and unafraid with Joe
33:29
Speaker 1: PAGs this time, make sure you subscribe. We'll drop another
33:32
Speaker 1: one very soon.