Latest / Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast / Keeping the Artistry in Acro

Transcript

Keeping the Artistry in Acro · Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_02: Have you ever wondered what goes on behind the table at a dance competition?
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly what are the judges looking for anyway?
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_02: This is Making the Impact, a dance competition podcast.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_02: Each week we'll cover a different topic related to the world of competitive dance from the perspective of the judges behind the table.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_02: Accro has been incorporated into competitive dance routines for many years, but with its continued appearance, the expectations have increased.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_02: Not only do acro skills need to be technically correct and safely executed, but they need to be woven seamlessly and artistically into a dance routine.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_02: Today on Making the Impact, we're joined by two incredible acro specialists who give us the inside scoop on how to add artistry to acro.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_03: Hey y'all, welcome to this week's episode of Making the Impact.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_03: I'm your host, Courtney Ortiz, and I'm here with my co-host, Leslie Mueller.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_03: Hello, Courtney.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's another podcast day, and I'm excited about this one.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, we are talking all about the artistry in Accro today.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_03: Acro is such a big, beautiful part of our competitive dance world and studio training these days in 2025.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_03: So we wanted to talk a little bit about what we're seeing on stage, what we're seeing in choreography, the execution, and we have two brand new guests and acro experts who are joining us on this chat.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I think you guys are gonna really like this one.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I know we've covered acro in the past, but this is gonna be a whole new conversation all about the artistry.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm looking forward to it.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_02: But we have a few more things to talk about before we get there.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, we do.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_03: We have some more Making the Impact Judges Choice Award winners to share with you that were awarded at IDA affiliated competitions across the regional season in 2025.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_03: If you attend an IDA affiliated competition event, then you might be the lucky winner of our Making the Impact Award sponsored by Impact Dance Adjudicators and our podcast.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_03: This is selected by your IDA judges and is going to one dance throughout the entire event that your judges want to recognize for making an impact through their technique, execution, choreography, performance.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_03: We want to recognize you.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_03: And one of the perks of winning this award is getting a shout-out live on our podcast.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_03: So let's hear some of our recent winners.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_02: Congratulations to the Moving Company Dance Center from Baltimore, Maryland for their duo trio, Ignorein.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: And that was at High Demand Dance Competitions event in Laurel, Maryland.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_03: And from Star Talent Productions event in Roanoke, Virginia, congrats to Seven Hills Dance Studio from Lynchburg, Virginia for their large group, The Chain.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: We always love to hear about your making the impact award, so make sure if you win one to scan the code on the back to submit the information, and we will give you a shout-out on the podcast.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_03: And before we jump into our episode, let's hear from our sponsors.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_03: Dance teachers, studio owners, and choreographers, this one's for you.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_03: Imagine four incredible days of inspiration, innovation, and movement in the heart of Las Vegas.
• 3:03
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• 3:10
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• 3:12
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• 3:22
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• 3:24
  SPEAKER_03: You'll get to be a part of exclusive sessions with industry icons, learning about retention strategies, marketing, and even injury prevention.
• 3:32
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• 3:49
  SPEAKER_03: And let's not forget over$20,000 in giveaways.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_03: And did I mention that I'll even be attending the event this summer on faculty teaching jazz movement classes and hosting a handful of informative seminars?
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_03: And I would love to see you there.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_03: Use our exclusive promo code Impact 50 in all caps for an extra$50 off your registration at the Dance Teacher Web Conference and Expo this summer in Las Vegas.
• 4:14
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• 4:17
  SPEAKER_03: Head on over to their website at Dance Teachersummerexpo.com right now to grab your spot.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_03: Or click the link in our show notes.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_03: Join me in Vegas for the biggest Dance Teacher event of the summer at the Dance Teacher Web Conference and Expo.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_03: Alright, Dance World, we're jumping into our next episode of season six on Making the Impact.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_03: And wow, this is gonna be such a fun one.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_03: I can't wait to learn from two experts in the biz, because today we're talking all about acro.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_03: And I know we've talked about it many times on the podcast, but it is a relevant discussion because we see so much acro at competition these days.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sure that if you have a dancer dancing at competition, they probably have some type of acro element incorporated into every style of dance.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe not tap, maybe not tap.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know about tap.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_03: Hey, you never know.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_03: I have seen ac aerials in tap shoes before, but I would definitely say like contemporary, there is acro happening.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_03: There's acro happening in jazz, there is acro happening in lyrical.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_03: So we're gonna talk about the artistry behind the acro elements today when it comes to choreography that we see at competition from the experts and also opinions from the judges as well.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_03: Our very first guest, who I'm thrilled to finally welcome to Making the Impact.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_03: We've been wanting to have her on this podcast for so long.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_03: She is uh the the founder of Acrobatic Arts.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_03: So she is doing such great work for our dance world to educate the dance community on how to bring acro to you.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_03: I am so excited to welcome Mandy up to the podcast.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome, Mandy.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Courtney.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so happy to be here.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I I've been watching and listening to your podcast forever.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: So it has been a goal of mine to be here.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_03: And luckily, here I am now.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so glad our schedules aligned and it made we made it happen.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_03: Bucket list.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_03: That's cool to be on someone's bucket list.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_03: And I know you have a podcast too, right?
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, Acrobatic Arts Podcast also runs.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so y'all, after you hear this chat, make sure everybody goes and gives a listen to the Acrobatic Arts podcast as well.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_03: If you love Acrobance, that one is for you.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_03: Mandy, it is so great to have you here.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_03: If you could just tell the world more about you, where you're from, where you grew up, your dance training, acro training, and also a little bit about how you decided to develop acrobatic arts.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I grew up as a dancer from Regina, Saskatchewan, a little place in Canada.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: And uh we did have acro at our studio.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: My teacher, who is now almost 90, uh, grew up in an age where acro was actually a big part of dance.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that we talk all the time as though acro is this new thing, but it isn't.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's one of the oldest forms of dance, um, was on vaudeville stages.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: It has been around as long as dance has been around.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that that's that's really interesting.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: And her background was in that type of and that style of acro.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: So it was really different than gymnastics, and it was it was built in acrobatics, which is it's a different kind of look.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: So grew up there, moved to Alberta um in my early 20s, opened a dance studio, ran my dance studio for 10 years, sold my dance studio because I had two young boys who didn't want to dance, and I was scared I was never going to see them.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I I thought I was gonna be a stay-at-home mom that lasted about six minutes, and I started acrobatic arts because I just couldn't bear the idea of not being part of the industry.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's just, I love everything about dance.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: So acrobatic arts was born out of a need for us dance studio owners and dance studio teachers to have an education and teach it properly.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I saw this massive gap in the market.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: I thought I was building something for a few of my friends because they needed a good solid acro program at their studio.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: And uh when I showed it to those friends, they said, this needs to be everywhere.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: And we opened a course and kind of the rest is history.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, over the last 12 years, we have put acrobatic arts into 8,000 dance studios in almost 70 countries.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: Our curriculum is in 121 countries, uh, which is just a little more than half of the countries that are recognized by the UN.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: So that's pretty amazing.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: And acrobatics has become the fastest growing genre in dance studios today, I think in no small part to the fact that we have educators who understand the genre better than they ever have before.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm very proud of that.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: You should be.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my God.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_03: Incredible.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_03: We should be.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_03: And to see like the growth in acrobatic arts, and I've been admiring and watching it from a distance, but to know that you only founded this about 15 years ago now, close to 15 years ago, is truly remarkable to see how much progress it's made.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that that time frame, like 2012, that tracks that that makes sense because that was when Accro started kind of really making its way into competitive dance, into studio training.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um, especially that was kind of like the dance mom's era too, and like the dance mom we the kids would see on dance mom's front aerials, and everyone's like, Whoa, how do you how do I do that?
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and then next thing you know, there's now curriculum developed to help you obtain some of these skills that we were seeing once you think you dance and on on TV.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: That was that was the thing that really spurred me on.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: I think motivated me the most of all was that I was seeing all of these things on television and and social media was sort of starting to come into the into the atmosphere as well at that time.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: And the studio owners and teachers didn't really know how to teach it, but they knew they had a responsibility to teach it properly.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, and and it's to to the credit of the dance studio teacher and owner, they do care about getting it right.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, nobody's checking in on them to make sure that they're educated or certified or have any kind of understanding of the things that they're teaching, but they took it amongst themselves to to really make that happen.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I I appreciate that about our industry as well.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's still a lot of work to do.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: We have a lot of teachers out there who don't know how to teach properly, and so you know, the mission is not over.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: Although we see about uh half a million kids go through acrobatic arts classes every week, we are only at about 8% of the market.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: So that means that you know there's still 90% of the teachers out there who could probably use a little bit more education still.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_03: Well, for all of our uh listeners out there, and if you're a studio owner, if you're a dance teacher and you want to learn more about acro or you want to get certified and just enhance your knowledge on acro to incorporate into your training, then make sure you check out Acrobatic Arts.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_03: It is, they are doing some fantastic work for our industry.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_03: So thank you, Mandy, for creating this.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_03: Our next special guest who's joining us is an old friend of mine who I got to teach alongside many, many years ago.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_03: And I haven't seen her since.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_03: So then when we reconnected recently, I said, you gotta come be on my podcast.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_03: Because I have always admired and loved not only her fantastic dancing, but the way that she knows how to incorporate acro elements and her strength and control seamlessly in transitions to enhance the flow of her contemporary movement style.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_03: And I really kind of feel like that's her signature in the industry.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_03: She's also giving some really fun tips and tricks over on her Instagram.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_03: So if you want to learn a new trick to incorporate into your next dance, then make sure you go check out her Instagram.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so excited to welcome Melise Miller to the podcast.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome, Melise.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, everyone.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: That was also such a nice intro.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: You're so sweet.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: You're welcome.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, Melise, remind where did we teach?
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: I cannot remember.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think we taught together on Turn It Up.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, see yes, that's what I thought.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_03: That's what I thought.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_03: But that was like over a decade ago, right?
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_03: At this point.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I know.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's probably definitely been like 10 years, I would say.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_03: I know.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_03: Crazy.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_03: I know.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: But time flat.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_03: You're doing such great, great work for our industry.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_03: And I love watching your professional dance journey as well and where you're traveling to and who you're performing with.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_03: So if you could share with the world more about you, where you grew up, your early dance training, and any career credits and what you're working on now.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: So um I grew up in Salt Lake City, Utah.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I grew up training there.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: And then at 18, I moved to LA to pursue, you know, professional dance.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: And at that point, I ended up on So You Think You Can Dance.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: So that's kind of where what kind of launched my dance career.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: That was like kind of my starting point.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I started on So You Think You Can Dance.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: I've done tours after that.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: I've done shows with people from Dancing to the Stars.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I recently just toured with Simone Biles, which is kind of crazy because uh merging tricks with dance and gymnastics, you know, so all that's fun stuff.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: So that was kind of a cool journey.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: So that was my most recent project.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I actually grew up doing competitive gymnastics alongside dance.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: So that's kind of what started my acro journey.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to kind of explore how I could incorporate those two things together.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: And then I was also lucky enough to have acro at my studio growing up.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: So that's kind of how all the worlds merged for me.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_03: That makes all the sense now, now that you say that, you know?
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_03: And I and I also feel like that you were again like a little before the the rise of this, you know, like because of your competitive background in gymnastics, then your teachers probably saw that as a strength to incorporate into your your quality of movement and your choreography for competition that which then led you to say you think you can dance.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_03: And your introduct introduction to that on television, I think was probably really impactful and eye-opening for a lot of young dancers to see, like, oh, this is how you can blend both together.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right, yeah.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: And putting a strength behind it too, you know, like I think gymnastics helped me in so many ways to build like muscle.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I, you know, like Mandy was saying, like strength and technique and how it's done is so important.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that helped me in many, many ways.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love that.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_03: Well, congrats on all your success and thanks for joining us on the pod.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, thanks for having me.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_03: All right, let's jump into this artistry and acro dance chat.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, awesome.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_02: Well, so we are so excited again to have you all here.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: We already kind of covered, I mean, there's not really much more to say.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like we sort of now we understand acro has existed for a very long time.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_02: It might have looked different, you know, back in the 30s or the 40s when you're seeing it in, you know, vaudeville and things like that.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_02: But I guess my my question is gonna start out with should in the dance competition world as we know it, how much acro is too much acro?
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_02: And at what point does acro start to take away from the dance part of things, or does it?
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_02: Because I think there's a lot of opinions about that, and I want to hear everyone's.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_03: We're jumping right in.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: Let's go.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: No kidding.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's a great question.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: I I absolutely do think it's it starts to take away from um the artistry of the dance at a certain point.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's when the dancer loses connection with their music and/or loses connection with the audience.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: So as soon as one of those two things happens, we move from art and into sport.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: Both are beautiful, by the way.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: I love the sport of gymnastics, but there is no requirement there for them to have an emotional experience with the audience.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: The only emotional experience is just how far can you push your body.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: That is the emotional experience that happens in that arena.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: But in dance, we expect that we are going to have that feeling as a dancer is performing in whatever genre they're performing, including acrobatic dance, by the way, even if it's in that genre, there should still be connection to the music and to the audience.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: So, my opinion is that as soon as it wavers from that, we are no longer watching a piece of artistry and it turns into sport.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: Love to hear what you think, Melissa.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I completely agree.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I also think like the second you stop moving, I'm gonna talk about transition so much today.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, start right now.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like the second you stop connecting, you're in-between moments, like we're waiting for this trick, and then we kind of walk to the next spot on the stage and then we do this trick versus like threading all that movement together.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: I think that is kind of when it starts like losing its, I don't know, it the visual is not even the same when we don't bring those transitions together.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I think I completely agree.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think the second we start losing the emotion as well.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think Mandy said it really well.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_02: The lack of transition to me, and what it is for me as a judge who didn't grow up doing acro and can't do any of that stuff and doesn't know how to teach it and like all the things, like I'm really way over here when it comes to that.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's just choppy.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_02: And so to me, it's like you could just turn off the music and do a floor routine, and I would still get the same effect as if you put on the music.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_02: Because if you're not connecting all those pieces, plus the emotional portion, you might as well just be doing what is it called in gymnastics, like compulsory.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like check, check, check, check, check adult.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, hitting your list versus like bringing it as a whole, adult dance as a whole.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's and the interesting uh point that you made, Mandy, about like the lack of emotional connection to you for gymnasts who just are doing the skills and the sport aspect versus we as artists and dancers need to like tell a story and perform and emote and connect and all of those things.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_03: I wanted to go back and ask Melise, like you as a competitive gymnast and a dancer, when did you make that transition and decision to decide?
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, you know what?
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_03: I'm done with competitive gymnastics.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_03: It was it something about like feeling it in your heart?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_03: Was it like there's something missing?
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_03: Did you want to like add the artistry into it?
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_03: And you can't do that in gymnastics, and that's why you picked dance.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_03: Like, tell me more.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, that's exactly actually how it went down for me.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like dance, it exactly, it gives so much creative freedom, right?
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: You can put a story into it, there's so much you can do.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I got to a point where I was like, dance is just fueling that like creative fire inside of me where I can bring emotion in and blend all these things together.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I got to a point where I was like, dance just yeah, it just fueled my fire more so, you know, giving me that creative freedom.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I just got to a point where I was like, I want to bring that art into these tricks as well.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: So that's kind of how I brought that together.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: Speaking of the transitions and the creative, the creativity you have to infuse into it, Mandy, with y'all's curriculum, like, is that something that's taught or how do we how do we get there, I guess?
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: So we have this amazing curriculum, the skills are being taught properly, everybody's technique is on point, and then we have to put it into choreography.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, is that something your company, your your process helps with, or is that sort of up to each individual to figure that out for themselves?
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: So the curriculum itself doesn't do that.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: The teacher training program does do some of that.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: But what I like to say about our curriculum is it's like we give you really excellent paint to work with, or a beautiful pencil with a very sharp tip.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: If you want to go and build a beautiful painting and you're using your grandma's old oil paints from the 1960s and they're kind of dried out and cracked, and you're trying to put on the your canvas is probably not going to be that beautiful at the end of it.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the same thing is true when you have poorly executed executed technique in any genre.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's especially evident in acrobatics.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: So if they don't have beautiful technique in their skills, it's hard to put those together in a way where they can still maintain that artistry.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so what we're trying to produce is excellent technique that reduces injuries, is probably the number one goal.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: But it also makes it more beautiful and more seamless when they need to connect those things together because the skill itself is so solid and the foundations are so solid that those things, those other pieces of the artistry can be woven in.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: But acrobatic arts' job is not necessarily in choreography.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: We don't necessarily help help teachers with figuring out what those things are, although we do have some courses in our higher levels that help with transitions and help with variations.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: So there is a little bit of that.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: The bigger part of what we do is give you exceptional tools to work with, exceptional paint, exceptional pencils.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_02: I think that I mean, I'm not surprised that that is the case because that is the way it should be for all styles.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and even when you watch, it's like you can tell if somebody has the building blocks and the foundations that are proper, even if the choreography might not be the very best in the world, like I can still really see your technique is is safe and proper.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: And that that dance is probably gonna still score pretty high because you have all these elements that, you know, make sense.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_03: You know what's interesting, and I don't know if y'all feel the same, but I can tell based on just the way a dancer is dancing in their technique.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_03: Let's say we're in the lyrical category, I can tell by their lyrical movement and technique overall in the dance elements whether their acro elements are going to be good based on how what your where your technical ability is and everything else.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_03: So when you go to do that run and that hurdle, I already know if it's gonna go well or not.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_03: Like, and and I don't know if y'all feel the same way, like even things like going down into like articulation through the feet, you know, that's like a perfect example of are we actually manipulating our foot properly and getting to a high releve and knowing how to move through toe ball heel that if we don't have that understanding and strength in our ankle, where and you can't even show me a fully articulated tandu on something as simple as a drag walk, then it's going to impact how you do your jumps and how you land your jumps and how much height you're going to get on your aerial and things like that.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_03: Is there any do you guys notice that as well?
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I actually completely agree.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like it goes back to even when you're doing a jump or using your You know what I mean?
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: Are we controlling the landing?
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think that also plays into your acro skills.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: Because if we don't even know how to control like our simple technique things and softening up our transitions and landings there, I feel like I exactly I already know that your acro skills are gonna feel kind of clunky and in the same, you know, world.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: And and it's articulating articulation of the feet is a great example, but there is articulation of the spine as well, which gets a lot more nuanced when you get into acrobatics.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: And for teachers who haven't spent a ton of time there, they might understand Cambrai from ballet class, but they might not understand the articulation in the rest of the spine that's necessary to make those skills look seamless and beautiful.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: And that is a really important part of acrobatics that I think is missing.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: When I watch acro on the competition stage, I see that missing a lot.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: Also to Melissa's point, you know, an aerial is a jump.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: It goes through the air, flies through the air, and has to land.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: So there must be an at a point in that where you're going to go through your foot and you're going to plie and transfer your weight out because we're landing on a hard stage.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's another really important thing for studios to note that when you hire a gymnastics teacher who doesn't have an acro background, they might not understand the nuanced differences between the technique of how something is done on a gymnastics sprung floor with a mat versus on the Marley.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: And the technique in which the body completes that skill is actually quite different because the body has to absorb that energy as you land the aerial rather than the mat and the spring, right?
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_03: Like I I knew that, but I don't think about that enough.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_03: I always I'm like, oh well, gymnasts are on sprung floors.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_03: They have it easy.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_03: You know, that's just like my my thought process on that.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_03: But even and and another perfect reason why we need to be training safely because we are on a harder surface.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes we don't know what's under that Marley when you're at stage at some of these events.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_03: You know what is can in control of your studio space.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_03: Hopefully you have sprung floors under there, but they're not as sprung as a gymnastics floor, and they're not as soft as a mat that you might be working on in tumbling class or acro class.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_03: So how how can they transition onto a stage safely?
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_03: And that's another perfect example of like just because you're doing it regularly in the studio on a mat doesn't mean that it's ready for the stage on Marley.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_03: But we see them all the time that we know they're not ready, but we still see it.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: Speaking of mats, and this is just a rare this is random because you just brought up mats, but I remember back in like watching recital videos from the 80s and like the 90s, people would straight up bring mats to the theater and do their routine on why did that go away?
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_02: And is that just a I mean I don't I never see that anymore and I'm happy about it.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_03: But that is hilarious.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_03: They can't haul these mats around competition.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: I guess they can't, but they did, you know, they did to recital or whatever.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_02: But I guess I'm just curious like, was that just a trend for the time or because we didn't have a lot of knowledge?
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: I think at the time in the States, so I never grew up that way.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: We always lived on the Marley because my teacher she brought Baudeville to our studio.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: There were no mats coming out in those theaters.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think in the States, what was happening at that time is that we were hiring a bunch of gymnastics teachers to come into the dance studio or tumbling teachers because we didn't know how to teach it.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: And they were thinking, heck no, we're not putting this on the floor.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's crazy.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, in order to process it on that floor.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that with the advent of more training, that kind of went away a little bit.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_02: I just there was, I think one of those nationals that you can watch, you know, from the 90s on Instagram, not Instagram, YouTube, people brought out a long thing in that.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_02: So they were just back walkovering and back walkovering, and it was like American beautiful, like it was a very patriarchal thing.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: But anyway, that's good to know.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so I have another question, and we're jumping all around in this chat, but you know, it is.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks for coming with us on this journey.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so there's Leslie and I have mentioned this often on our podcast, and I say it often too, where an aerial these days, and we're 2025, and we're talking about aerials a lot because I feel like that's the most I see that f most frequently, I would say.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_03: Other elements too.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_03: Every kid can do an aerial these days.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_03: It's like the double pirouette equivalent.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_03: And front aerials are now becoming the next aerial.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_03: But like back in the day when I was a competitive dancer, no one could do aerials.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_03: It was like, oh the one girl.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_03: You did an aerial.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_03: And then of course there was the one girl that did the front aerial, and they would always win because also they had amazing lyrical technique.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_03: It was always in the lyrical dance right on the foom, like right at the time of the song.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, exactly.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_02: You know the foom we're talking about.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_03: So I know the one.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_03: My question is, what what level is an aerial?
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_03: Like, is that like an easy skill?
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_03: Is that is that considered easy now in acro?
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_03: Or is that still like an intermediate, advanced level move?
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_03: How much uh how many progressions are before the aerial?
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_03: Because I think everyone just shoots for the aerial.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_03: Some people don't even know how to do a one-handed cartwheel before they're launching into aerial.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm curious to know, like, where is that at on like the ladder of ability level?
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want me to take that one?
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: Go ahead.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so for us, it's quite far up.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: It it happens in level seven, which is after your eighth year of training.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: So you start with primary, and we don't actually hit an aerial until level seven.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: And this is what I like to say about it.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: Can you see a double pirouette in a beginner, whatever jazz class?
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: Of course you can.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: Is it pretty?
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: Heck no, it's not.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: And the same thing goes for the aerial.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I think if you want to have something that's gorgeous and beautiful and seamless and still connects with the music and connects with the audience and has seamless transitions in and out, it happens much later.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: Can you run into it and maybe land on your feet?
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: And does the audience still go crazy?
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: Unfortunately.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it still does because they did something.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't know any better.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: But do I consider that to be artistry and and acrobatic dance?
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: I personally do not.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I wouldn't be awarding it as a as a judge.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: I would be saying the same thing as I would be saying to a double pirouette that has three hops and started on a turned it in foot and doesn't have any kind of releve on it.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's the same problem.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so I part of what I think is my responsibility and our responsibility as an industry is to change the culture on how we see and reward those types of skills.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: When we see a dancer who's nine years old come out to do their ballet solo with point shoes and they are barely getting on their box and their ankles are wobbly, we do not reward that.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, that dancer is likely to be, you know, marked significantly down, and their dance teacher might even get a talking to at the end of that competition.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: But with Accro, for some reason, you know, if they somewhat land on their feet, you know, the crowd goes wild.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we can change that because even the parents understand that that ballet routine is not acceptable.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: They understand that jazz really pirouette, the double pirouette that is sloppy.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: We aren't clapping for that.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: So it's part of our responsibility as an industry to change the culture, not just with within the educators and the dancers, but also in the audience.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_03: That's a good point.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_03: Anything to add, Melise?
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: I also think that I'm just gonna talk about safety, right?
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of times too, if you're barely landing your your aerial and it just becomes a safety issue for me.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: If it if you can't do it, you know, just from a standing position, I I don't think that it should go into your routine.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: If you you know, if you have fear in your eyes before you do your large hurdle and you take it across the stage, I don't know.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: It just becomes a safety issue, and I think, yeah, we have to protect our kids, you know.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_02: I think I think the thing that the part of what I thought you were getting at, Courtney, and correct me if I'm wrong, is the situation where, and this goes for other techniques too.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_02: We we do see eight-year-olds doing beautiful, stunning aerials out of a beautiful some of them can do it.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just like the some of them can do the fouetes that are beautiful, and you're just like, how, how?
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_02: So, like I know it happens, and I I still am sort of baffled as to how it happens, but somebody's out there doing it, and it seems like they're doing it well.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, do do you ever notice or hear of or see the fast track?
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like, can you get through eight levels of acrobatic arts in two years when you're seven to get to be a nine-year-old to do all these things properly?
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_02: Or is that just, I mean, I don't know.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: You can't get through the whole program in in two years.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: No, absolutely not.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: But can you excel at one or two elements for sure?
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: So, and I certainly have had dancers, I've got all kinds of dancers that are dancing professionally right now, and some of them were phenoms as children, right, as young children.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, Tate McCray is a great example of that, where she could just do everything at a very young age.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so working with her was a dream.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: It was delightful.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: And as eight year old and eight-year-old, there wasn't anything I could throw at her that she could not crush.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: Having said that, I don't know if you've ever seen her do a backhand spring, and there's a reason for that because it's not the skill.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: There were holes in her foundation because what she was really exceptional about at, we focused on and we didn't need to focus on some of the other things because she was never going to use them.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that is a personal choice for very, very special genomes in the industry, and that goes for any industry, right?
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: There is pianists that are like that.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: There, there's, you know, in in anything, there's child prodigies, and and certain things happen for those dancers and and other things don't.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: I will say this though, if that dancer, Tate, tried to try to try out for a show right now and they asked to do a tumbling pass, she would not be able to do it because there were massive holes in her foundation and she never did get through the program properly.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_02: That's you know, that's interesting.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_02: And that's one of the things yeah, that we that we always I know this in the back of my head, judging, and we I think we all know this, is that we don't know anything other, anything other than your three-minute dance.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_02: So while it looks like your three-minute dance is stunning and surely they're able to do all these other things too, there's probably holes, and we we're not seeing those holes because you're not showcasing the holes.
• 32:29
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• 32:31
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• 32:41
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• 32:45
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• 32:51
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• 33:08
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• 33:31
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• 33:35
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• 33:36
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• 33:51
  SPEAKER_03: That's the a smart choreographer on how to disguise the holes and disguise the flaws in the technique or the gaps in the training.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, of course we're trying to train well-rounded dancers, and we hope that we're working on those issues in training classes to continue to elevate our technique in a variety of styles.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_03: But when it comes to what's being presented on stage, the uh great asset to a good choreographer is knowing who they're working with and how to make them showcased in their best light possible and showcasing the strengths of what they can do.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_03: They're not, I mean, granted, we need to challenge our dancers, but we should we as educators and choreographers and professionals need to know when something needs to be taken out of a dance.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that we don't see that enough.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_03: And I can tell that I don't even know you.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_03: I'm watching as an outsider looking in, and I can tell what needs to be taken out.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_03: So why, where's the disconnect from some of the teachers?
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_03: Because sometimes we have on like the dance teacher goggles, you know, and we we love our dancers so much.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_03: We're so proud of their progress.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_03: Like, wow, look at how far they've come.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_03: I can't believe that they're doing this.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_03: But then as an outside, completely like outside viewpoint as a judge, I'm sitting there thinking, why would you give them that skill that is so far beyond their technical ability?
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_03: And it's not enhancing this dance for them, but the teacher's looking at it in a different perspective.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it does come down to safety personally for me.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_03: It's always the safety when it comes to acro, even contortion.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_03: Can we talk about contortion a little bit?
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_03: Because I'm scared for the spine articulation that you were talking about.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_03: I'm really, really scared for everyone's spine.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, everyone's spine and back pain.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_03: I agree.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_03: That's the score.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_03: Is it a call is it called a scorpion?
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_03: Is that okay?
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_03: Great.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_02: That's when you're bent, right?
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_02: And then that's when you're like grabbing the leg.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_03: And some people call it a needle, I think, or like a candle tail.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: We call it a full scorpion, so we call it scorpion.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_03: Full scorpion, okay.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_03: So scorpion is just when you're holding the attitude, and then when you straighten it, it's full.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's what we call it.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_01: There's all kinds of names.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: And the great thing about being worldwide is that we've learned all different kinds of things that things are called.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I I love that.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's a beautiful tapestry.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I could not agree with you more.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: While the side aerial is maybe scary when they don't quite land it and even the audience can see it, and there is a possibility for acute injury to happen in that moment, they break their ankle or something like that.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: That is dangerous and scary.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_01: But a more scary thing to me is the long-term overuse injury of the back that is never going away.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: That broken ankle will get in a cast and it will be healed, and they will probably be just fine.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: It'll be just something that happened in their childhood.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: The the overuse injury that happens in the back because they don't understand which part of the back needs to work on a skill like a full scorpion is something that will be with them for the rest of their lives.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: You are going to let this child out of your studio at 17, 18 years old with a very shiny trophy and a back that is going to give them pain for the rest of their lives.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we have a massive responsibility, educators and judges, to not reward that and to not perpetuate that problem because it is it is the rest of their lives we're dealing with here.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_03: So do we want to see them in or are we saying like no more scorpions on stage, or are we saying, like, how do we how do we fix this?
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm not saying that, but there is a way to do it where it is correct, and there's a way to do it where it is incorrect.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: And the chances of an eight-year-old understanding the articulation of the spine, shoulders, and hip that needs to happen in a safe scorpion is almost zero.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it doesn't happen very, very rarely, but very unusual.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_01: What normally happens in this in an eight-year-old is that they overuse the lumbar spine, which has very flexible vertebrae, and that part of it, their body takes most of the bend, their hip is not quite flexible enough yet to support it, they don't have enough muscle structure in that part of their body to properly support it either, and their shoulders and upper back are not in the equation at all.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so therefore, the lumbar spine is taking a significant risk by taking on all of that pressure.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_01: If they can use the hip in the upper back and spine and shoulder, and there's a nice round look to that scorpion in the in the entire back that's being used, absolutely, totally safe and happens all the time.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's contortionists at Cirque du Soleil who are in their 50s, 60s, but that's because they were trained properly, not just thrown at these skills, right?
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like I see when I see scorpions, I see like this and this.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's kind of what I see in a scorpion, as opposed to like you're saying, like a curve, an actual curve.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_02: So great.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_02: I my like innate sense of that looks wrong.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's right.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_02: Melise, did you what was your um background in sort of the more contortion-y elements of acro?
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_02: And do you find that your body is holding up?
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, actually, I do feel okay.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like I said, I I took a like proper acro class growing up, and I actually also trained at the CERC school.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_00: Oh wow in LA.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: Cool.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, I do have kind of like I know how to hold my body properly.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: So it goes back to that same thing, just like having the proper technique of how to hold it and to protect your spine, you know.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think we're seeing so many more injuries.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I think uh yeah, it just goes back to knowing how to hold it.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_02: And the strength behind it.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_02: Because acro has now become so prevalent and everybody wants it, you know, which is why they're, you know, purchasing your program and going through your training because people want to do this and do it well.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_02: Are there, I mean, do you are you running into kids who just can't?
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like their struct their body structure can't do it?
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_02: Are they unable to to get into these positions or to have the flexibility and the strength?
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_02: And like, then then as an industry, how do we sort of reconcile that with the people who are winning because they have all these skills and the people who are probably very good but don't have all these skills?
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: First of all, I don't actually don't think that that's true.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think that anyone who really wants it can do it.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_01: I I really believe that.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I've seen kids come in to my studio before who are stiff as a board, and you would think this kid is never going to.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I encourage dance educators to not underestimate what a student who really wants something can do because it is amazing.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and generally those students actually end up healthier longer because they learn how to do it properly.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: It takes them longer to get there, but then their bodies last longer in the long run.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I I think that it is totally possible if they really want that.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, as to your other question, there are so many parts to a beautiful dance, and a beautiful dancer, this is just one little piece of it.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it can be overtaken with artistry from dancers who don't have that facility without any question.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I I encourage us to not just look at these things only and to and to consider all of the aspects that make a beautiful dancer.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_02: I think that'll be music to some parents' ears because I think we hear this a lot that people feel like if their kid doesn't have all these skills, then they're just kind of doomed.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like that is almost how it feels.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's so refreshing to hear, you know, from an expert on this that, like, yes, this is important, and obviously you think it's important because you're you have a whole business surrounding it, but there's also this other side of it that like is just as important.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_03: And Melise, I feel like that you probably do a lot of choreography with dancers, groups, solos, um, maybe seeking you out knowing your acro history and style.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_03: So, how do you as a choreographer infuse the the acro elements?
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_03: What are some of like your go-tos?
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_03: What work for you and your dancers, and like on your end as a choreographer, what are you trying to give to the judges to make sure that you're still living within the genre that they're being entered in?
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think overall it's about making sure that everything feels controlled and seamless for me.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_00: I think I like to sit down with my dancers if they do want acro skills or tricks and building on whatever they already know how to do, right?
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_00: So if they're really good at, I don't know, let's just say like anything to do with back flexibility or back bends and stuff like that, taking those skills they already know how to do and just giving them extra flair, but also making sure that they transition in and out of them very seamlessly.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: I never want to give kids anything they feel like they can't, they're not comfortable with or can't execute really well on stage.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I would just say that's the biggest thing for me.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_00: Already using skills that they have already learned how to do properly and then just giving it, you know, an art, an art, you know what I mean?
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like giving it a good transition, really working at it.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_00: But so yeah, I would just say building on things that kids already know how to do is really important for me.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_00: And then if they want to work towards something, they can practice it and work on it and see if they want to add that in later.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's usually how I go for it.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_03: I think that what frustrates me a bit at competition as a judge when it comes to acro within different dances is the lack of seamlessness, the lack of transitions, the the way that it just feels plopped in there, like right in the middle of a dance.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_03: Like I would have loved to have seen like a Ronversay jump or a calypso or uh something that feels within the genre instead of what you think needs to be there.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_03: And this kid just got their aerial last week, so we put it in, and it's a hot hot mess, sloppy.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_03: And then it's gonna bring down the technical score too.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_03: And the other flip side to that is the ratio for me.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_03: I think that, you know, at the end of the day, it is a dance competition.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_03: At the end of the day, you entered it into a specific category for a reason.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_03: If you wanted to do a a primarily, predominantly uh with different types of skills, acro dance, then enter it into the acro category.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_03: But if you are entering this into contemporary, if you're entering this into lyrical, the ratio of of contemporary needs to be stronger than the ratio of acro.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_03: And that is what the where the lines are getting way.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_03: Too blurred because you're going from elbow stand to chin stand to back walkover to front aerial to roll on the floor to hand stand.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, is this contemporary dance?
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what is going on?
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, I completely agree.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, like I think that we can use floor work, but there's a difference between like an inversion in modern versus an acro skill that we're presenting.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I agree.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, there is an open or an acro category for a reason.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_00: So if you want to, if that's what you've been training for and you want to put all these things in, then just make sure to put yourself in the correct category.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_03: And it makes our job really hard.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's the point that like I don't think people understand because especially if you're at a competition, that actually is rewarding, like top in jazz, top in lyrical, but the dance that's winning is not actually that genre, then why are we rewarding it?
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_03: You know, like I can't even judge this properly with what I have in my head that I need I expect to see within the genre that you think it is, because you filled it with so much acro that I don't even see the foundational elements of that genre anymore.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's tough too, because if you judge a kid based on that, like they're getting, if you say, like you're there's too much acro and you take points off for choreography, then the the kid is kind of taking the fault for that.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just such a fine line of like, we have to talk to the choreographers on the tape and let them know, like, hey, there's a lot of tricks in here.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't know if it should be in this category.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't know.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's just such a fine line.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_00: It gets like so blurred, it's it is really tough as our to do our job sometimes, you know.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_03: Do you have any thoughts on that?
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_03: Do you see that happening?
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_03: And are are you with are you like actively at Canadian competitions, Mandy?
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_03: Or do you are you seeing like stuff on social media?
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_03: Like, what are your thoughts on this?
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_01: I I live dance, Courtney, so I'm at competition.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just always everywhere where there's dance.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_01: I was at Showstopper two weeks ago, so yeah, I sat in the audience and watched.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_01: I see your showstopper shirt.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I'm sitting in the audience, I'm watching, you know, in every genre, I'm seeing the acro, I'm seeing it done poorly.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm, you know, I'm noting the trends and what you know what teachers are looking for.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm watching how judges are accepting it and what they want and what's winning and what's not winning.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_01: So absolutely, I'm seeing all of it.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I totally agree with you, Melise.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's exactly what you're talking about there, that just piling the tricks in one after another, you lose the artistry.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_01: You lose the connection with the audience.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_01: It you know, it's pretty hard to maintain an emotional connection with your audience when you are upside down with your face smashed into the into the floor for like a whole minute in a row.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you can do that skill and come back up and and connect with us again.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_01: But if you just stay down there, like it's it's hard for us to stay connected as an audience member with it looks painful.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like well, it's it's always my favorite face to watch is the kid who's like, here I go, and then like slams their face down into the chin roll or whatever, the chest roll.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, Oh, that looks so uncomfortable.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like, why maybe not that skill in this dance?
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_03: I don't, I mean, yeah, and you know, I get it.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_03: It's a it's you know, maybe they learned that in their progression of their acrobatic training, and they want, and this is something they have a good execution of it, and it looks nice.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_03: Like, hit it and go.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_03: We don't need to live in it, we don't need to be there for like two counts of eight, like it's just too long, and it just, it's just a painful looking position, you know.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's like to showcase the line, the flexibility in the back.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_03: Like it can be very pretty, but I think it's just how it's choreographed.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_03: I think that everyone all of the choreographers who are maybe not acro specialty, but like know the kid has this ability and they want to put it in here.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_03: Like, your job is to learn how to transition it in and out and what is appropriate for length and how long we're holding something for.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_03: And okay, let's incorporate this role into that.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_03: And then what feels good for the landing?
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_03: And like talking to the dancer and understanding like where the weight needs to end and how much time they need in the execution.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_03: Like, can you execute this in this amount of time that matches the musicality?
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_03: Like, all of those things need to be happening in like the choreographer's brain.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_03: And often I can tell as a judge when that's not being given to them or when the kid can't execute.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_03: There's so many times I'm like, we need to give them a little bit more time to expect them to do all that skill.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_03: You know?
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_03: It's just like like if you can't do it, they can't do it.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_03: Like they're a training kid.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_02: The little dancer in your head, you know that I always have a dancer in my head who can do all these amazing things, and and you get a real person, you're like, oh, okay, let's back up real quick.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, and it takes way longer than you think.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, yeah.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well, so the biomechanics of it too.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_01: If if you don't really understand the skill as a photographer, you maybe shouldn't put it in there.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't really understand biomechanics of how the body is going to make that thing happen and where the weight is going to be at the end of that, and how the hips are going to be transitioning from a you know parallel position to a turned-out position, and and you know, how is that going to happen?
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't really understand it, maybe don't add those things or or get educated.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_01: One of the two.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_03: I have a few like acro specialty questions that we need to ask because I obviously did not grow up doing anything more than an aerial, side aerial, not front, in my life.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_03: And a question that I actually have for you both of you is when executing a front aerial, which we see so frequently on stage at competition, are your arms supposed to follow through and land over up, up out of it?
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_03: So following through up and around overhead by the end of it.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_03: Is that a stylistic choice?
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_03: Is that a training choice?
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_03: Is it a requirement?
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_03: What are your thoughts?
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I I have big thoughts.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um when you're training it, your arms should definitely come up and over all the way through.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_01: Now in gymnastics, when they do that skill on beam, they do not bring their arms up and over, you might notice.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_01: So the aerial finishes and the arms are down.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_01: Once we have all of our paint, our beautiful paint brushes, our pin pencils, all of the things that we're going to create with, then I say, you can do whatever the heck you want.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_01: If you want to twist that that aerial out of there, if you want to bring one arm up and the other arm's going to sweep in front because that's what the music is asking of you.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_01: I am so all about it.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_01: But it takes an exceptional level of technique to be able to switch it up at that point.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_01: So while you're training, it has to be absolutely perfect.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_01: And that means arms up and over, so that when it's time to put it into music and you want to have something different stylistically, you can.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I wouldn't say there is a right and a wrong when it comes to the choreography of it.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_01: But as a judge, you will probably be able to tell whether or not that skill is foundationally exceptional and or if the arm is going wacky because they just barely landed it, right?
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_01: And and I hopefully we we have enough education as judges to be able to tell the difference between those two things.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_03: What about you, Melise?
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_03: Is it the same?
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I completely agree.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, I rarely give kids for aerials.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_00: I think that there's just like when you're landing on stage too, I think sometimes there's just so much landing of the lower back, like weight in your lower back.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_00: I just think it it is such a risky skill, like for your back.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I just think exact same thing.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_00: Unless the technique is really there, I rarely give out for aerials personally.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like that it's so beautiful when the arms come up.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_03: Like there's something about that quality for me watching it that's just really pretty.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_03: Like you're upside down, the legs are split, and then your upper body comes up, and there's a nice like flow and movement quality out of it, versus when the arms don't go up, they get stuck upside down and they don't have any arms aren't helping them.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_03: And the momentum doesn't help them.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_03: Then I think about the load on their back and their spine.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_03: And also the knee scares me, like landing on that one leg.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_03: Like I see like a blown-out knee.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'm just terrified every time.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_03: So I and I do think it's like core strength, back strength to help get the arms up.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_03: So I don't know.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, that's just like my take on it.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_03: I I would love to see more follow-through of the arms personally on stage.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_03: I just think it's even prettier than just getting stuck upside down with the whole thing.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and I think it won't hurt you.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like, am I correct?
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like that it's the better we teach it to get it up.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_02: So we might as well all just do that, you know.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_02: Like, obviously, if you're like excellent and then you can sweep your arm in the front or whatever it is, but like it's not gonna hurt you to bring your arms up and over.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it it the thing that the reason why I train it with bringing the arms up and over is because it helps with the articulation of the back, helps the dancer to understand what it feels like to articulate through the back and to use all parts of the back, not just the lower back.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's the same problem as the scorpion we talked about earlier, where the lower spine is just taking that jar, and if they don't articulate through the rest of the spine and have the rest of the spine help them out, then that one part of their body is taking most of the load.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_01: And that is dangerous for the dancer.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_01: Completely agree.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_01: Now, have I seen like a front aerial where like they just stand and their arms are down and it's like fierce?
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_01: I have that.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_01: And it is if it's on the right part of the music and it just works, like amazing.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_01: But it's a much higher level of technique and requirement of that dancer technically to do that that way.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_01: So so that's where there's nuance in it, right?
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_01: Because I don't I hate saying this is right and this is wrong, because in dance, you know, we don't do that very often.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_01: There can be it can be incorrect for your body technically, and the the alignment can be can be wrong.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_01: That is true.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_01: But as far as the artistry of it goes, I mean, there is so much room for us to make things beautiful and different and interesting, right?
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I think the most important, that's such a great point.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_03: I think the most important thing when it comes to, and this is a discussion on artistry and acro, right?
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_03: I think the most important thing is that, and we say this so often on the podcast, you have to know the rules to break the rules.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_03: So that's right.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_03: That's when the artistry comes in, is once you have the foundation, once you have the technique, once you have perfected it to its best ability for your age, then we can start adding the flair, adding the artistry to make it not just a skill-based trick anymore and more of dance.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_03: And it is dance at the end of the day, and dance is art.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_03: But I think that that is getting lost because of the pressure of winning a first place triple titanium gold spring, all the things, because people think that's what wins instead of realizing that you know, this a lot of this discussion today was actually about safety in these skills.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_03: We're supporting that.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_01: You have to you have to know the rules to break the rules.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_01: That is exactly it.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_01: That's exactly what I'm trying to say, but it is so much eloquent.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_03: I think we got that from who, Maddie?
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_02: Maddie Kurtz, Maddie Kurtz Marquitas, who is one of our third episode, lyrical versus contemporary, and her take on contemporary is you you can't start contemporary from the beginning of nothing.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_02: You can't, that's just you have to know rules of other forms of dance before you can break them.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it applies here for sure.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, I have another question for y'all, acro specialty friends, because we just did an episode on two shoes or no shoes or one shoe.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_03: Dun dun dun.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_03: And a lot of the reasoning behind the one shoe, which I'm sure you're aware of, is because of good old acro in dance.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_03: And but they need to still turn, but they need to do the acro.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_03: So, what are our thoughts on this?
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_03: As acro specialty experts, do you support dancers wearing one shoe to be able to achieve their acro and still turn on stage?
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_00: I personally don't love the one shoe.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like it really gives away, I don't know, what's coming, right?
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I I just would prefer no shoes at all and just maybe turn uh train our turns a little bit more without a shoe.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's just like goes to show as well, like, oh, I turn on my right foot versus my left foot.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think it just really like calls out our technique to one specific thing.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I prefer a no-shoe look, but yeah, I think I just I don't know.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_00: I think no shoes for me.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_01: I have I have all kinds of thoughts.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_01: I have a good friend, his name is Joey Rigo, exceptional dancer.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't know who he is, go look him up because he's amazing.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_01: But that boy can turn, doesn't matter what you put on his feet, that boy can turn because he's just his technique is so good that it doesn't matter how many turns you ask him to do, he will do them shoes, no shoes, tap shoes, high heels, whatever you ask him to do.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_03: Love it.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm working a lot with dance team right now.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_01: So if you weren't paying attention, the Super Bowl of dance happened in January and we saw Ohio and Minnesota go up against each other and the dance competition world, the kids that were in those in those teenage years were going nuts watching this competition happen is so fascinating to me.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm working a lot with the teams.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_01: I actually work with Ohio and it's a ton of fun.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_01: But they part of their costuming, just you know, across the board is there is a shoe on the right foot and on the left.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_01: That is just part of how it is and is completely acceptable in that arena.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that that's sort of fascinating as well.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think it's really important that the dancer is safe.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_01: So when you're training, I think you want to make sure that whatever you're putting that dancer out to do, you put them in a position where they are going to be safe.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_01: And if that means that they have one shoe on and one shoe off, I would rather that than they are unsafe.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_01: And the other thing that I think is important about the shoe commentary and controversy is that when they become professional artists, if that is the route that they decide to take, chances are high they're going to be doing whatever it is is you ask them to do in high heels if they're if they're female.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_01: So they have a big responsibility to learn how to tumble in all kinds of ways, with shoes, with no shoes, you know, in high heels.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, on a steel stage.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_01: They do rockets by doing steel stage, 10 shows a week, sometimes on a cruise ship, moving.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I think giving your dancer all different ways to be able to handle the material that's thrown at them is of absolute importance.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_01: And then, like I said before, keeping them safe is the number one thing that we have to do.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_03: Now, this could be a little controversial with my opinion here, but I feel, and I'm a two shoes or no shoe supporter, if you listen to the episode, you will will have already known this.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_03: However, I think that if you like you kind of hinted at, if you can't do your acro with two shoes on, then you shouldn't be doing that.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_03: You're not ready for that acro skill anyway.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_03: So, like if you if you know there's turns in your dance and you're a great turner and you can't turn bare feet, and you but you know you want to showcase this in your choreography, then you need either need to learn how to do acro with two shoes on or take the acro out.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_03: That's my stance on it.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_03: Because yes, do we want both?
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, but also there's an expectation for competitive studio stage, and this isn't UDA, you know?
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_03: So, like we talked about this in our episode, go give it a listen, but that's my stance on it because I do think that like it comes back to safety and technique, and you should be able to pull that aerial or that front aerial in any shoe.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_03: That's how high level you should be by the time it gets to stage.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_03: So there to me, it's kind of an excuse when people are saying, Oh, it's uh it's for safety.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, yeah, I want you to be safe too.
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, both ways.
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, because you you can turn and bare feet also.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_01: And that's my point.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's an excellent technique, you can do it with whatever is on your feet.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_03: Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_03: You heard it from the acro specialty, our acro acro specialty guests, y'all.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_03: So if that's more knowledge for us, I know it's a big debate in our dance world always.
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_03: Never mind.
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_03: I do think it's a part, you know, this discussion is about acro meets dance and artistry, and turns are more dance, and but flips are more acro, and how do we present that on stage properly in a total package and presentation?
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I do think that that is a part of the competitive stage.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_03: If it's your recital, wear what you want.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_03: That's great.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_03: But when there's judges that are judging you on presentation, costume, total package, that could be a deal breaker on how your score plays out and safety.
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_02: And it is oftentimes.
• 1:00:20
  unknown: Yeah.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_02: Not could be, it is.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_02: It is.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_02: I would love to end this conversation on a positive note.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm curious for both of you, have you seen anything in recent trends?
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_02: I know, Mandy, you said you've been clocking the trends that Accro is doing differently or more interestingly, or something that you're just really excited about that you're seeing out there?
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_01: For me, it's the way that we're using it.
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_01: So because over the last decade we've been able to infuse more technical excellence into the studio training that the dancers are doing, we are now able to see these really cool transitions and variations of regular skills that are being made different and new and more artistic and more musical.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I just think that that part of it is so interesting to watch.
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_01: And the creativity that some of these choreographers and students have is just mind-blowing.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_01: How they take something and a rolling tinska that is now has now become pr pretty standard.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_01: Most people can do a rolling tinska, call sometimes called a spider, like an inside-out bridge without your feet on the floor.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um and just creating these really interesting things that come in and out of turns that you just are not expecting.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I I love watching the artistry that is part of that.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, me too.
• 1:01:29
  SPEAKER_03: It's it because I wish I could do that.
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_03: I know that's like a gap in studio dance training that I'm like, darn, I was a decade too early.
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_03: Because now there's all I see these dancers that are so athletic, that can do, that are understanding, especially the higher-level dancers once they get to senior, that have kind of like learned all the the rules and then are breaking them in such great ways, where it's so artistic and cool.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_03: It's something I could never dream of doing.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_03: So it is so inspiring for uh and I and a lot of times I feel like that the dancers are the ones like coming up, playing around and really coming up with it themselves, right?
• 1:02:06
  SPEAKER_03: Hopefully safely, you know, and proper guidance.
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_03: But like then the teacher's like, oh, what's that?
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_03: Cool, let's put that in there.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_03: That's crazy, let's do it.
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_03: It's so cool, right?
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I couldn't agree more.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think, like, on the flip side of everything that we've said, like about safety and all that other stuff.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_00: I do think when it's trained properly and done properly, it's it's magical, right?
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like the fact that if someone could do five carawatts and then like rotate to their hands and then like balance for their life, like it's so like visually pleasing.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_00: And you're like, wow, like that takes so much control and work to do what you're doing.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I think that when it's done properly, it just I mean, it's amazing.
• 1:02:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's a really cool thing that has grown so much.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_00: Well, right, like we just care about kids' safety so much as well.
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_03: We hope you've enjoyed our latest episode, all about the artistry in Acrodance.
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_03: Huge shout out to our guests, Mandy and Melise, for joining us on this chat.
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_03: Don't forget to follow them on Instagram.
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_03: You can find Mandy at AcrobaticArts and Melise at Melise Miller.
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_03: And if you're interested in learning more about Mandy's Acrobatic Arts program to bring curriculum training for Acrodance into your studio, then learn more on their website at acrobaticarts.com or click the link in our show notes.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_02: Don't forget to follow Making the Impact on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Podcasts, and pretty much everywhere you listen to podcasts.
• 1:03:36
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• 1:03:42
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• 1:03:50
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• 1:03:57
  SPEAKER_03: Check out IDA's Online Judges Critiques.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_03: Our seasoned judges will provide you with the video critique of your routine, just like you'd receive at competition.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_03: But with IDA's online judges critiques, we take it one step further with our post-critique additional feedback.
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_03: Your judge will go through your routine again, pausing the video to give you even more detailed and personalized feedback.
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_03: You can even request a judge that specializes in your style of dance.
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_03: This game-changing service has helped countless dancers prepare for the competitive stage and is available year round.
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_03: With critiques starting at only$35, what are you waiting for?
• 1:04:32
  SPEAKER_03: Click the link in our show notes or visit our website at Impact Dance Adjudicators.com/slash online critiques to learn more and submit your dance today.
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_02: We are excited for the rest of season six of Making the Impact, including episodes on in house versus big conventions and toxic studio behaviors.
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_03: Happy dance season.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_03: We'll see you next week for some more great episodes on Making the Impact.