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The Detroit Tigers are running out of time to save their season · Tiger Territory: A Detroit Tigers Podcast

• 0:09
  Speaker 1: And welcome into another episode of Tiger's Territory, part of
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: the Foul Territory Network. Tiger's Podcast. I'm Karen Steckley with
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: me as always as a man who is not extra,
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: but sometimes the games he covers are he is Cody Stavenhagen.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: How are we doing?
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: All right? We did see some good baseball games this
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: home stand. Let's let's not let the results forget that
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: we saw like entertaining baseball games. Just if you're a
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: fan of the Detroit Tigers, you probably didn't walk away
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: feeling good because that is pretty deflating. You start a
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: homestand with a sweep of the White Sox and then
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: you you finished that home stand five and five. All right,
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: it is disappointing. It's this team's pretty depressing. All right.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: On that note, let's kind of dive in, dive in,
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: look it is. It is something that I really do,
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: like go back and forth in my mind Cody about
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: like how to feel about this? And then I look
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: at I just wanted to tally the runs, all right,
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: can we start there. I want to tally the runs
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: in this series as a sort of oversimplification exercise about
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: how to feel about this home stand, which, as you mentioned,
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: five and five, the Tigers scored forty three runs and
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: they allowed thirty six five and five, And then you
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: you know, you have three games against the division leading
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: Chicago White Sox. That feels weird to say. And then
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: you know the New York Yankees, and then you have
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: like Houston, who's one of the hotter teams in the
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: American League right now. Now you know, granted, part of
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: their hot streak is playing you, but you know, regardless,
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: like one of the one of the hotter teams in baseball,
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: and you you exit that five and five, you have
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: a plus run differential, Like is it is it disappointing?
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: Is it mediocre? Like is it wasted? Like what is
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: what was this home stand? Because I think like the
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: fact that it was this many games in a row
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: had every you know, a home obviously had people kind
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: of thinking like could this be the time that the
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: Tigers make their run. And obviously for a second it
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: kind of looked like that you won four straight at
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: one point, but it wasn't. This was not the formula
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: to be the launch point. I never felt that because
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: of the competition that you were playing right, And so
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: like I don't feel like we have this graphic up
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: on up right now if you're watching on YouTube, is
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: the season over? I don't feel like the season's over.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: I don't feel like the season's in a better place.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: I feel like a five and five. I feel like
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: it's just kind of continued. I don't necessarily feel great
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: about that, but that's kind of how I feel. It
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: just kind of it just kind of has continued. We
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: continue to see this over and over again. And then
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: I should mention the last time that we talked, we
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: were really lamenting this offense, especially spoil Lane to Troy Melton,
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: superb outing after after we talked about the offense, Cody
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: eight runs, six runs, five runs out obviously five and
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: ex ratings. I understand all that, but eight runs, six runs,
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: five runs. This was the highest scoring output this weekend
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: that you had the entire home stand, you know, five
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: what was the previous high before this weekend? So all
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: that to say this is a frustrating baseball team.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the close games of the offense, you know,
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: fared pretty well against Hunter Brown, like in a way
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: that makes it it worse because they were they were there,
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: and there's kind.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: Of this thing wasted, Yeah, a little bit wasted.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: A J.
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: Hinch said something to that effect. He's, you know, he said,
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: there's a lot left out there this home stand winnable games,
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: he said, And I think that makes it worse. Like
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: there's this thought like are they just unlucky?
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: Why?
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: You know, can you explain how bad they are in
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: one run games, two run games? They're run differential? Is okay?
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: So like, should they be better? And watching the games,
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: my answer is no. They don't make enough winning plays.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: They don't have enough winning players. They're getting crushed on
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: the margins. The things they're supposed to be good at,
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: they're still pretty bad at most of the time. Every
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: now and then they get a little bit of offensive production.
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: They've had really good starting pitching. We shouldn't lose sight
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: of that. But they don't run the base as well.
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: They don't defend well the bullpen. It's kind of crazy.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: The bullpen in June has actually been good all things considered.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: Somehow they have the twelfth best bullpen in e RA,
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: but the bullpen feels terrible. They do have eighteen blown saves,
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: which is tied for the most in the American League.
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: Like you don't feel confident in navigating the back end
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: of games, and that's why they're losing close games is
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: because they don't do enough winning things to come out
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: on the other side.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, one of the things that Army
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: centre and one of the things that I look for
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: is like when you do I know this technically isn't
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: quote unquote winning on the margins, but I throw it
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: in the category in my mind. So if you guys
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: can bear with me for a second, you got guys
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: in this lineup that have to play that are struggling offensively,
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: and like McKinstry would be on that list of how
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: you Lee is on this list just because he's a
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: rookie who's you know, it was a call up due
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: to injury. Torkelsen on this list and when you get
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: production out of those guys, those are the kinds of
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: games that you like, really need to win. You had
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: a home run from mckinstree on Sunday. You had a
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: home run from Lee on Saturday, Torto and you know,
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: if you want to say that, it's garbage time whatever,
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: but he brought you within two runs with less than
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: two outs on Sunday, Torklesen with the home run, but
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: also he had the base hit in the in the
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: in the pinchhit situation earlier too. So like the ones
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: that you're kind of like, not i'll put it nicely,
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: not confident in give you some sort of boost, and
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: then it's not even enough. And then you have the
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: guys that you do rely on, like Harry Carpenter coming
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: up clutch with a grand slam on on Saturday, and
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: that's still not enough. So like the margins I throw
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: in there, the fact that you can't even take it
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: take advantage of Autman's home runs and hat Lee's home
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: runs and mckinstrey's home runs, and Torque when he's struggling,
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: you know, doing stuff that's as concerning as anything. Because
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: to reiterate what I said last time we talked Cody,
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: this is not a complete team because the past two years,
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: when you got offensive output from those kinds like those
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: kinds of struggling players, Obviously, I know, varying degrees of
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: success the past couple years, mckinstrey and Torqu and all
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: that stuff, but when you got s you know, success
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: of the play from those kind of players, you usually
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: won those games because that wasn't necessarily banked in. Now
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: you're not doing it. And so so another exercise I
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: went ahead and did was I just kind of was like,
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: all right, we're a little bit more than halfway through
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: the season. The record is thirty five and forty nine.
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: What are the tigers?
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: Like?
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: What are the tigers? And I was like, okay, well,
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: you're getting good to superb starting pitching on a pretty
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: regular basis. I think you can in terms of things
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: you can bank on, feel pretty confident banking on that.
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: And Jack was excellent today. We'll get to him in
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: a second. You do have upside offense, yet it's pretty unstable,
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: like maybe very unstable is a good way to put it.
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: You have two studs and Dingler and McGonagall, and those
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: are things that you should be like excited for to
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: watch them on a daily basis. You're not good on
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: the margins, as we've discussed, and you have a not
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: confident yet pretty expensive like back end bullpen piece here.
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: That's why I remind people rounding up that between Kenley
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: jan it's in Kyle Finnigan and will Vest it's costing
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: you like twenty seven million dollars this year, like that's
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: obviously you know it, you know, descending in terms of
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: who's getting the most money. But at the same time,
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: Finn again still has a barely above two ERA and
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: it still doesn't feel that great, you know what I mean. Like,
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: and then vest Vest has like it had his struggles
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: there with two outs, and then Jansen never really found
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: the zone like at all in an effective manner on Sunday.
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: So that's what the Tigers are, and that's that's a
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: prime team to have thirty five and forty nine record
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: if I ever saw one.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So it comes back like, is the season over? No,
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: they keep losing. Someday I will declare the season over.
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: It's still a little bit too early. There's a little
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: bit too much.
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: But it's teams only four teams above five hundred in
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: the American.
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: League, which is crazy. But it's getting really really hard
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: to talk yourself, to talk myself into into thinking they
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: have enough to go get this done. The turnaround has
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: to start eventually, right, So when's it gonna start? Are
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: they going to go into the Bronx and take three
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: from the Yankees?
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: Like?
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: Probably not? So when's it gonna start? And if it
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: doesn't start soon, next thing, you know, you're at the
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: All Star break and you get on the other end
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: of that All Star break and you were staring down
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: the barrel at having to trade off a lot of
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: your team, like the clock is ticking. They are not
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: out of time, but they are getting in my opinion,
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: they are getting really close to being out of time.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a that's a good way to put it. Oh,
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: and I should say the last little characteristic of this
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: Tigers team is they still do have this sort of
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: never say die attitude, and I think we saw that
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: with Tortlsen's home run on Sunday. The problem is they
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: still do a lot of dye.
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: That might be the h That might be the phrase
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: of the fan season.
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: The little things drive me crazy. The error the McGonagall
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: Keith play today, like that was bad. The two east
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: Side parades two days in a row. Takes in a
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: poorly executed O two pitch and puts it into the
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: right field, like Will vest not getting out of two
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: strike counts, Kenny Jansen's not getting out of two strike
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: counts like those things are just from Ravalds. Can't get
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: out two strike counts like those things are just infuriating
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: to watch, and it's every day still Still, there.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: Are no little things with this team. That's another way
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: to kind of characterize them. It's like all of them
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: seem big, because that's that's just what we've seen thus far.
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: All right, we are going to take a quick break
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: and then afterward we'll go a little bit more positive.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: We'll talk about a really neat sports baseball moment that
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: happened on Friday night. But first a word from our sponsors.
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  Speaker 1: Disease, and that includes watching the Tigers. Just why the
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• 12:01
  Speaker 2: For I love that, I love Scott talking about using
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  Speaker 2: get over hangovers. That's great.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: Well, look, you know go to like sometimes like going
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: through a season, especially the season Tigers have had you,
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: you kind of you can lose sight of the like
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: the great things that you get to witness on a
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: on a potentially on a daily basis with with this
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: beautiful game that we know as baseball. We did see
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: that on Friday. So in addition to having the offensive
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: explosion right after talking about whether they have it, they
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: don't have it? Is it in there? It is in there?
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: And that exactly was what happened offensively on Friday night. Yeah,
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: Cater Montero and Emanuel Dejesuss combined for a shutout, looking
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: at it, a five hit shutout, by the way, and
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: coming on the heels of a natural disaster in their
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: homeland of Venezuela. You at the Carlos Giann radio call,
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: all that stuff was was excellent. I think I think
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: this was like a great reminder of sort of like
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: the good that this that this game can bring bring
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: out of people, and and I and as much as
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: we lament this the season and this team, I don't
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: want to lose sight of like a pretty special moment
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: for two guys that have kind of been through it
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: and then are just trying to hang on to try
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: to do their job and miss a tragedy in their
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: home country.
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was, Uh, cater Montero and Manuel de Haysius,
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: They're they're both definitely emotional. I mean, Montero's had been
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: hard for him to sleep. Da Hasius was obviously all
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: sorts of worried, and both of their direct families are okay,
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: but they both know other people who have suffered loss
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: as a results of those earthquakes. So pretty impressive to
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: be able to pitch through all that. Cator seven shut
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: out djsius to two shutout endings on top of that,
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: and I don't I feel like I should continue with
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: like a touching human tribute because it really was amazing,
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: and that I don't know their bosses are going to
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: reward him by sending Cater back to the bullpen, and
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: they already optioned to Haesus.
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: So now I don't mean to laugh, you know, like
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: in that fashion, But that is the other side of
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: the coin, right, is that like the we had the
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: beauty of baseball on Friday, and by Sunday we get
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: like a harsh reality of the business of baseball. And
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: and again don't want to take anything away from what
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: we witness on Friday. I hope you guys have seen
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: the clips and and all that stuff and what it meant.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: It didn't mean. Everything meant a lot that day to
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: get back to just like the general baseball business. We
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: knew Jack Flaherty was going to come off the il.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: We didn't know what the move would be the corresponding
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: move would be and then it's a manual the Hayesus
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: going down to triple A, and that's that was Like,
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: I don't want to say it was a bad look.
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: It just was a bad headline for that the Tigers
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: had to go through. And the reasons are pretty plain.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: I get him. I also had just talked about how
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: I thought the Jesus had like kind of earned a
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: little bit more of a run, and then he gets
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: sent down because he has because it because you know,
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: because the number one word on in baseball is options
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: have much.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: You were trying to put him in a leverage role
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: and then Tigers put him in triple A. That's that's
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: where we're at. That's where're right.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: They got through to look for your boy.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: No, it's not a tough look for you. You were
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: closer to being right than the team was. I think
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: he's pitched thirteen consecutive scoreless innings. He's been really good. Uh,
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: you're about to go into the Bronx and face a
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: Yankees lineup with a ton of left handed hitters. The
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: Rangers have some lefties, like, yeah, you still have Drew
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: Summers and Tyler Holton, but I feel like there might
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: be a situation where you might just need DeJesus coming
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: up the The other thing to do would have been
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: to dfa Jacob Waggispak, who has been been been okay,
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: and we the little we've seen him so far, and
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: I don't want to talk about someone else like losing
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: their job, their livelihood. Wagon's pack's a great story, worked
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: really hard to get back here to the major league level.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: But I feel like he's expendable. I feel like you
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: could live without him. Clearly, they're just trying to preserve
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: like the depth of their roster, but in doing that,
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: they're optioning a worse player to keep, like a marginal
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: mop up right handed reliever, and I have I think
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: that's hard to justify. That's another thing, like this front
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: office has just been bad on the margins for the
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: better part of the last year plus. The things they
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: are supposed to be good at they are not. Like
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: this roster has been pretty pretty poorly constructed, and they
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: do some weird things with the roster man and this
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: is this is yet another one.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well again, like you know, just for anybody and
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: include anyway at the Tigers, that's gonna listen to this
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: and be like, well, poorly constructed. Look at all the injuries,
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: look at this, look at that. Jones. He got exposed.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: You got exposed, That's what I'm saying, Like you got exposed.
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: Like what this was it was you being exposed for
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: how you built the roster. It wasn't you know, talk
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: about bad luck or whatever, like at a certain point,
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: like you have kind of created your own situation. And yeah,
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: Jami Jones, who you know, you got the walk on Sunday,
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: so credit to him there, but it was like he's
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: not now, he's not being used automatically to come in
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: for a carry carpenter for Colt Keith and against a
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: lefty and it and if that, if that doesn't speak
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: to like usage, including management usage, then like I don't
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: really know what does. Because again, as we've said, I
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: I do feel like we have been very fair to
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: Jami the entirety of this season. But I've said this
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: whole time, like if he's not at least going to
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: be used in these situations automatically, he doesn't give you
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: anything else. So if he's not being used and he
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: doesn't give you anything else, then we're talking about a
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: roster spot that could be potentially and you know, better used,
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: if only in the sense that it could be used more,
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: you know, for for a variety of things, like aj
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: would have more at his disposal if you know, just
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: like Max Anderson for instance, just like at least you
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: could play him on defense, you cannot play or at
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: least you have not shown the willingness to play Jamai
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: on defense. And if you if he's not gonna automatically
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: come in against these lefties, then what are we doing here?
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: Uh so so Yeah, exposed is the word that I
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: that I would use there. And then while we're on
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: the Montero thing, uh, I am a firm believer in
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: Montero as a starting pitcher. Hot take, Hot take there, Cody, I, I,
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: I and I and I have for a long time now,
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: given all the factors, I also think, well, this bullpen sucks.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: Maybe maybe it's not the worst thing on the planet
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: to throw in one of your best pictures to use
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: in high leverage situations and long situations coming out of
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: the pen, because like it you can call a demotion,
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: but it would be a heavily used quote unquote demotion,
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: a crucial demotion and and you know, and probably game
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: saving potential, promotion, demotion. I should say sorry to put
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: Montero in the bullpen. I guess they haven't officially made
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: that decision. They could do the six man rotation, but
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: it kind of seems like that's where they're leaning and
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: it sucks for Montero, but at the same time, he
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: probably could be just as effective in that role.
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, talking to a J. Hinch this week, it sure
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: sounds like Montero is going to go back to the
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: bullpen for another little spell rather than start in Texas.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: And then they have those two off days, you know,
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: the Friday off day because of the World Cup. It's
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: kind of a weird little stretch of schedule. I would
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: expect Montero next week to be pitching out of the
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: pin when they get on the other side of the
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: off day July sixth, they have six games in a
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: row before the All Star Break. I'll be interested to
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: see what they do there. Do they want to go
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: six man there? Get your starters extra rest? Or would
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: you rather your stars not get extra rest? Would you
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: rather Scooball pitched twice in that span? I'm not sure.
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: I think that will be interesting and then even on
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: the other side of the All Star break, you have
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: what like fourteen games in a row. So I don't
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: think like Montero's done being a starter, but he continues
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: to kind of be the odd man out when there's
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: a stretch of schedule that isn't conducive to a six
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: man rotation. That sucks because he's been really, really good. Again,
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: that one, I get a little bit more because it's
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: the reality and you're right here, and in a way
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: it does help the team just putting someone else who
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: you have confidence in in that bullpen. The bullpen badly
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: needs that sort of help right now. So I think
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: it really sucks for Cater and it's kind of unfair,
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: but I do get it. And there's a world where
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: the Tigers a J. Hinch can better navigate the back
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: into games if Cater Montero's coming out of the pin.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's an asset. Like it's it's not a like
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: we just have to hold on to this kid, you know,
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: or you know whatever, Like he is an asset, and
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: like that is a little bit easier to swallow.
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: But and the way I'm watching Tigers games right now
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: is just like all right, starter is probably gonna be good,
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: Like how many innings can the starter takedown? So like
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: today Jack Flaherty didn't allow run, but his pitch count
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: was high. He's done after five, and it's like, all right,
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: can this bullpen get you four innings?
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: Like I don't.
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: I don't feel great about it. You know, you know,
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: if the starter doesn't go seven, I'm not feeling great.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: Well the star starts to go nine, I don't know.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you're not wrong, You're not wrong.
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: Uh so so yeah and and like and in regards
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: to Montero, it is one of those things that just
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: given what we witnessed this season, like there will be
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: more starting opportunities like you said earlier, Uh, but it
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: it does, it does. It does get old Cody kind
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: of feeling like like the meritocracy of this roster is
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: just not uh, it's just not playing itself out in
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: a in a fashion that I think the most reasonable
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: person would deem fair. Sports aren't fair, life isn't fair.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: I understand all that, but some of these moves have
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: been made. I don't know if you could really with
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: a straight face like call them like fair. No, no
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: at all.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: I will say, like not that long ago, we were like, man,
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: are the Tigers going to be able to keep Jack
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: Flaherty or are they gonna have to like just swallow
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: it in DFA And when Schoogle and Mine's coming off
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: the eel and Jack Flaherty's gotten himself together and he's
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: pitched quite well, it should probably be an inspiration to
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: a lot of other guys on this team, like just
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: because your down bat doesn't mean your season's over, Like
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: you can find ways to improve. Flarity's done it. He's
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: been stable. He just came off the I L and
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: gave you a really good performance, missed a lot of bats,
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: made big pitches in big spots. He's slowly turned his
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: year around. And it'd be nice if more guys we're
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: doing that at this point.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: Well set, all right, I wanted to take this time
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: to remind you guys that Tiger Territory is brought to
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: you by Fan Duel. All Right, we got our weekly
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: daily Dinger pick and I want to use it on
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: Hayyu Lee Cody And look, obviously he's got three home
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: runs on the year. He's not much of a power
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: thread at this point. But I did want to take
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: the opportunity to just kind of like give us, give
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: ourselves a little bit of room to assess him a
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: little bit, because as of now, like you know, Glabor's
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: not walking through that door metaphorically, and so Hyu Lee
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: is kind of like your your second basement, if you would.
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: And he's the guy that we've been hearing about basically
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: the entirety we've been doing this podcast. Now he's in
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: the bigs and he's getting a little bit of a run.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: We talked about how A J. Said it was a
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: little unfair when he first got called up because he
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: just come off injury and they're really really desperate and
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: he didn't necessarily get like a whole opportunity. Well, now
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: that he's getting I thought I was close to a
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: whole opportunity as as one could reasonably expect. Came into
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: today hitting two sixty one. You know, like I said,
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: the three home runs. He plays hard. He's made a
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: lot of like baseball like plays in the field that
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: are just the result of effort, and just like I
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: firmly believe I can do this. He runs well. I
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: think he's in the seventy two percent tile and sprint speed.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: So like there's there's some things to like about Lee,
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: And I would remind people that in Double A he
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: had an eight fifty one ops, and then in Triple
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: A over the parts of two seasons, he had a
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: seven forty eight ops. Good on base numbers, obviously kind
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: of carrying that as opposed to a lot of power.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: What where do we stand on Hyu Lee right now?
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: Because to me, it seems like, you know, he certainly
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: deserves to kind of be in the mix either here
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: like just in the intermedia and then kind of moving forward.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: I feel like he's done enough to kind of to
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: kind of feel comfortable with that. Where do you kind
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: of stand on Lee?
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah? I don't think my overall opinion has changed a lot.
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: He is a fun player and plays the game hard.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: He has some dog in him. We've talked about this
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: team needing more that so how you should get a
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: lot of credit for bringing some of that edge, But
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I talked to a major league scout
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: this weekend. He was like, yeah, I wrote, Lee is
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: a fine emergency infielder. I think I think he's probably
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: like a fifth in fielder. I do think the Tigers
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: think he can be more than that. I wouldn't be
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: shocked if they would like him to become an everyday player,
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: and he is making a We talked about like, is
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: this a chance for him to show something? And sure enough,
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: he's he's kind of running with it and he's showing
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: some things. We're gonna see a lot more of this guy.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: I'll be really interested to see where it leads. For
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: all the things you like, there are some things to
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: not like. His stat cast right now is pretty pretty ugly,
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: and I think in the minors, I mean, he's actually
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: known for posting good exit velocities, barrel raates, things like that,
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: so we'll see if that ticks up, but a lot
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: of the underlying stuff is just not great. He has
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: closed off his stance a little bit, so when he's
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: stepping in the bucket, he's at least still somewhat linear now,
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: and I do think that's that's been a pretty helpful
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: adjustment for him. But then I look at that walk
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: rate four percent. That's not gonna cut it. And he
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: did walk Sunday, but we're gonna have to see him
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: walk more. I think for me to really believe in
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: any of the other stuff is that you know, if
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: that's your level of pitch selection. That's just not a
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: good profile. And that's that's We've seen it with countless
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: guys over the years. It's not gonna work.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's all fair. And I'll give him credit
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: because that that was like what a seven pitch at
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: bat there in the sixth that he had had to
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: walk in like and so like you know, when a
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: bad doesn't mean it's quote unquote in there, but like
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: there there's an element of if you can, if you
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: can coach him to have a better played approach, Like,
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: there's more to like there than then I think we
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: initially saw. I think that's a that's a fair way
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: to say it. And you know, like labor Torres is
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: an expiring contract. You have no idea what the hell
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: second base is looking like next year or even you
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: know post August third if that's the route that the
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: Tigers up for. Uh So, like there there is money
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: to be made metaphorically speaking, uh with with the role
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: of Hoyyu Lei, and so like give them credit.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, fairness to his his walk rate and the miners
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: hovered around nine percent, that'd be slightly above league average
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: in the Big League. So if he can get back
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: to what he's historically done. You know, he would be
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: in better shape.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: He is somebody that you that you like more than
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: what the analytics kind of tell you, Like if you
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: just kind of watch him day to day. Uh, maybe
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: those maybe those things kind of narrow a little bit
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: as he gets more playing time and you know, honestly.
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: Could go that's the reverse of what the industries thought
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: of him though, Like the analytics are good and the
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: eye test is terrible. So yeah, maybe it's good that
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: he's he's the other way around right now. Maybe that's probably.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: That's the funny thing about about him. And shit, maybe
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: that might be the Tiger season two. A lot of
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: things epitomizing the Tiger season. So and I'll make note
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: he did have two hits off Ryan Weathers when the
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: Yankees played the Tigers this week, and that will be
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: the starter on Monday. So that is the reason he
• 29:19
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• 30:13
  Speaker 1: All right, coming back here to kind of wrap things
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: up here here, Cody. We we kind of touched on
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: it a little bit, just kind of periodically vibes going
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: into this road trip, wrapping up this homestand because you
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: had talked about on Thursday with like, you know, just
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: kind of being you know, defeated and depleted and like
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: all these things after Troy Melton's the stellar start and
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: and you know, just not being able to produce and then,
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: like I said, this weekend was like just a completely
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: different weekends than what was really the previous the previous
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: week's baseball game. So like the fans feel a certain way,
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: journalists have to call it a certain way, like what
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: do we see from the team now, because there are
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: some stuff that goes on that does make me want
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: to think like, okay, but bottom line is bottom line
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: a certain point?
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know, I say what I said the
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: other day, you know, I just think every game is
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: starting to feel really heavy. I think the players are
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: acutely aware of the magnitude. Aj Hinch has kind of
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: been transparent and saying like they're getting They're talking about
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: it all the time. I think the guys are talking
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: about the trade deadline. There are guys in that room
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: who would like to start winning because they're afraid they're
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: going to get shipped somewhere else if they don't. So
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: I think that is weighing on their minds as it should.
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: The vibes this weekend obviously were not great because they
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: got beat and they lost winnable games. So heavy continues
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: to be kind of the word that comes to mind,
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: Like you can you can sense that both the losses
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: and the mistakes and the implications of all that are
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: are weighing on the minds of everyone. There's just no
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: way around it. The only thing you can do to
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: change is start winning. Do you start putting too much
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: pressure on yourself? That's kind of been a conversation the
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: whole year. I don't know like that, that's where they're at.
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: Everyone knows the reality, they know what it's at stake.
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: It's Kiley Jansen's credit. He said, you know, I've been
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: down a lot in my life. I'm not a quitter.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: I'll never give up, you know. Asked about like, are
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: you starting to feel more urgency to get this thing
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: turned around? You know? He said, well, the Nationals did
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: it right in twenty nineteen. The one reason can't quite
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: say it's over yet, even though there are a lot
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: of signs that aren't encouraging right now. So that's that's
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: kind of what I got coming now Sunday.
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: You know, it's crazy, like this stretch has really made
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: me think, like, how the hell did twenty twenty four happen?
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: How the hell did like staving off twenty twenty five happen?
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: Is this just like pedants for that.
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: It is like a little bit it feels like it,
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: you know, like.
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: You know, water really finding its level and and and
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: so yeah, I mean it's we're on the cusp of
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: it being July and All Star break and then trade deadline.
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: It's all it's all coming really fast. And like I said,
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: only four teams above five hundred, this was not like
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: an easy homestand by any stretch of the imagination, in
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: terms of your opponents, can't say you passed the test.
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: I can't say you failed the test. You just kind
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: of you just kind of are treading water. And at
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: a certain point, treading water is just quite frankly not
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: going to be good enough. And we're getting pretty damn
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: close to that being the case. So we will as
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: always follow every follow it along every step of the way.
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: You can follow us on x Folly know his Twitter
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: at Cody stave Inhagen. I am at Kieran Underscore Steckley
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: pot page at Tiger Territory Underscore YouTube, Apple, Spotify. As
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: we continue to grow the show, we appreciate all you guys.
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: You guys know what to do. So for Cody Stavenhagen,
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: I'm Kier Stickley, Everybody have great day.