Latest / INSPIRE STORY / #0106_ STORY INSPIRE: How to Build Unshakable Confidence & Stay Young — The Secrets to Feeling Your Best at Any Age

Transcript

#0106_ STORY INSPIRE: How to Build Unshakable Confidence & Stay Young — The Secrets to Feeling Your Best at Any Age · INSPIRE STORY

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Russell Kane. He's known as a multi-award winning comedian, presenter, actor,
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: author and scriptwriter. But man, this guy is so much more.
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: I started doing all this biohacking to survive on less sleep,
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: to not lose your hair or to slow down the
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: aging process. It fucked my life in the proper sense.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: Everything fell apart like a junkie. How can I get
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: more of that? My relationship with my girlfriend fell apart.
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: My bills started to not be paid. I started to
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: look thin. It's the closest thing to a drug addiction
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: I've ever experienced.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Russell Kane. He's known as a multi-award winning comedian, presenter, actor,
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: author and script writer. But man, This guy is so
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: much more. He's genuinely, deeply intellectually curious. Something that honestly
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: surprised me. And this sounds like it might be offensive
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: or a weird thing to say, but I'm going to
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: say it anyway. I didn't realize how smart this guy is.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: Remarkably self-aware. And to top it all off, brutally honest.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: He says it how it is. He has an ability
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: to point out things that I think most of us
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: muggles miss. and he's also genuinely just a really nice
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: and hilarious human being. Today, you won't hear many jokes.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: This is the more serious side of Russell Kane, and
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: a side of him that I did not know and
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: would not have guessed before speaking to him. So without
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: further ado, I'm Stephen Bartlett, and this is The Diary
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: of a CEO. I hope nobody's listening, but if you are,
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: then please keep this to yourself. Russell, one of the
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: things I read when I was reading about your story
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: was a quote, and I'm going to read the quote
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: to you. You said, I remained a boy while he
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: was alive, even when I was 18, and I needed
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: to be a man to tell these stories. What were
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: you talking about when you said that?
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: Well, I don't think that's true of just me. I
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: think anyone boy or probably girl who has a reasonably
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: overbearing and dominant father, you sort of remain a child.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: Now that I'm a father myself, I can see that's true.
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: So when my daughter Minna is 40, she's still going
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: to be my baby. So that's the positive side of it.
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: The negative side of it is if it's quite an
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: overbearing masculine energy, I felt sometimes a bit like a bonsai,
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: like I kept nearly growing and then the roots were trimmed.
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: So I was fully grown but small. So if my
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: dad was in the room, you know, I was instantly childlike,
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: I would say inside. So it's just a very dominating figure.
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: And I think that would have been the same had
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: my dad not dropped down dead from a heart attack
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: years ago. I think that would have been the same
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: when I'd been 40, 50, 60. If my dad had
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: been a 90 year old shouting in the corner, I
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: probably still would have been like that.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: Even if he wasn't in the room?
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: No, no. When, as soon as what in his presence,
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: I think, but so far as that, I think that
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: quote might be talking about stand up.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't have dared to tell the funny stories about
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: him while he was alive, I don't think, just on
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: the risk he was offended or there'd be consequences.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: What was he like for anybody that hasn't read about
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: your story?
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: Steroid-taking, shaven-headed. Silverback, doorman, right wing, angry, council estate, working class, barbell, curl, semi-professional, bodybuilder, lifeguard,
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: sheet metal worker, lagger, nutter. By lagger, I don't mean
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: someone who gets on it. I mean someone who puts
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: the insulation on the outside of pipes. The hardest job
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: you can imagine, crawling in boilers, ripping out asbestos. fiberglass
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: cut hands white transit van get out of the way
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: just massive shirts tailored this is when he's taking steroids
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: that was before i was born shirts tailored trousers split
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: in hulk like at the thigh just a force of
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: meat called dave wow that was my dad actually called
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: dave dave actually called dave from essex um so yeah
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: he was just very old school so even though He's
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: more like someone who was born in about 1920. He
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: had sort of the politics and the attitude, very unreconstructed masculinity,
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: quite knuckle-draggy, but just worked himself to death to provide,
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: barely raised his voice at me, certainly never laid a
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: finger on me, but didn't need to. I find the
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: truly terrifying Cockney can just give you some, you fucking
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: get in there now and you're done. I actually pissed
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: came out of my body once when he spoke to
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: me like that.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: Really?
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: I literally pissed myself. I'd thrown my brother on the
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: bed and he was crying. And there's nothing scarier than
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: hearing those doom, doom, doom on the stairs if you've
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: done something to your brother or sister and you know
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: your dad's coming up the stairs. And he's like, what happened?
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: What have you done to your brother? And I just
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: pissed myself. And that guy never laid a finger on me.
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: That's power.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: My mum definitely laid a finger on me. I don't
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: think I would have been scared of her if she didn't.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: but I was fucking terrified of my mum. But she
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: would beat me. But I couldn't imagine how she could
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: have achieved that same objective without hitting me with something.
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: It would be analogous of the nuclear deterrent threat. If
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: you know I've got nuclear weapons, I don't need to
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: fire them for you not to attack me. So I
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: knew my dad had nuclear, whereas, and this sounds incredibly sexist,
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: but the reality is once you're a 14, 15 year
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: old lad, you're the same size as your mum. There
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: are no, you know, wearing the nuclear weapons. She's going
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: to have to put her money where her mouth is.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: Haven't you got to know how nuclear weapons work to
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: know that they're.
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: I just needed to look at my... To be honest
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: with you, my dad's given me so many positive things.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: It's just that the negative things are funny. So that's
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: why I talk about them disproportionately. But to teach someone,
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: I'm 5'10, like a pepper army with hair on. But
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: when I stand on stage, I don't need to hit
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: people or shout. they sit in their seats and some
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: of them in the front row shit themselves if I
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: even look at them. So who have I learned that from?
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: It's partly my craft, but it's partly also what a
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: good teacher has, what a good dad has, like my dad,
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: and what a good stand-up has, male or female, that
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: authority to stand there and hold a room with a
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: reasonable tone in the voice, pin drop. It's powerful. It's
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: harder for a mum to do that, particularly where I
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: grew up, there's a lot of single mums, when you've
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: got teenage lads that are sort of thinking, what are
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: you going to do? It becomes like an arms race
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: where the mum starts hitting the legs and hitting the face.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: And it's needed because that's what the mum's got to
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: work with, I suppose. That's why I do believe this
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: is so sexist and old school. But I do believe,
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: if not a man, two parental figures in place, one
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: who can play the badass. It doesn't matter if it's
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: two women, two men, whatever. I think if you've got two,
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: it's double the force raising a child.
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm. Takes a village. I remember, you know, the way
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: you've described your dad is quite different from who you
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: are today and who you were over the last 10 years.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: I mean, almost the antithesis. And I remember reading about
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: the fact that you took a DNA test at some point.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: I took a DNA test just out of curiosity because
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: I'm big into science. I wanted to know what diseases
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: I was carrying. I've always been fascinated about my ethnic
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: makeup because my family history starts in living memory. I'm
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: obviously a little bit darker than I should be to
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: be a Brit. I was interested to know what was
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: in there. But part of me did go, what if
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: this is the moment I discover my dad's not my dad?
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: It did cross my mind, which is totally absurd. Sorry, mum,
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: if you're watching. Because he was blonde hair, blonde curly hair,
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: blue eyes, very wide. It's just that we're just nothing
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: in common. My brother is the spirit of my dad,
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: but I'm like my mum. just energetic, pepperami with hair on,
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: running around, bouncing out of bed, stick, first thing in
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: the morning.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: And in terms of generational cycles, where did your dad
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: get it from?
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: So he always used to say to me, I never
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: had a dad. And then my mum would say, so
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: you've got to understand, your dad didn't get taught how
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: to be it. My mum's gay, man. Your mum didn't
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: get taught how to be it. your mom, your dad
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: didn't get taught how to be a dad. So he
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: just know what he didn't know how to be around babies.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: He'd never learned that sort of thing. He never, he
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: didn't have anyone to guide him. So he had quite
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: a rough childhood. His dad walked out on him when
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: he was about, I think he was about two and
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: my dad's mom's hard as nails. He's East End, well
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: it's Essex back then barking. And it was just a
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: tough childhood, you know, tough East London, Essex childhood where you,
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: you just survived basically. And, uh, He had a lot
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: of dreams. I think he would have liked to have
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: gone the same way I did. He was quite a
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: good-looking bloke, so he got scouted for modelling and things
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: like that. He pursued that for a bit. He pursued
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: the professional bodybuilding. He even tried stand-up, I think like
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: a Pontins or a Butlins. He tried a little bit
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: of acting, only for a couple of years, and then
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: he went into the hardest, I think, of all the
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: manual labour you can do, which is sheet metal and insulation.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: Like I say, crawling along pipes and all that. So
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of bitterness involved. a lot of unrealized dreams,
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: a lot of abandoned by your dad, a lot of
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: hardness and negativity there from the childhood, and that plagued
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: him his whole life. So if we were on a
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: beautiful four-star holiday to Menorca when the sun's shining, part
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: of him would be thinking about the five-star holiday he
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: could have. I'm not like that at all.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: How did you know he was thinking that?
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: Well, he would voice it half the time.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: How? What would he say?
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: It's all right. Imagine if I get the big job,
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: imagine if we would come back. He'd be quite positive
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: on holiday, actually. but he was like just imagine julie
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: if we if we had more that's my mom of
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: course julie and dave if we had more money that
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: house we could have and my mom would be like
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: dave we bought our own council house thanks thatcher it's
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: a big house biggest house in the street we've got
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: pillars out the front yes it's a former council house
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: we've got pillars we've got a swimming pool in the
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: garden Three beautiful bedrooms, lovely bathroom, massive house, dining room,
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: front room. Two healthy sons at the point. My brother's
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: very unwell by the time he was 17. But at
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: that point, what was there to be negative about? It's
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: a hard job my dad did, but good money. But
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: he couldn't see that. He could just see his mate
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: who started a glass company and now his son drove
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: a Lambo and he lived in Chigwell. And I don't.
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: And when my dad passed away, we were going through
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: the shed at the bottom of the garden. I found
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: his diary. And it was, honestly, it was one of
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: the few things that made me cry when he died
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: because I sort of toughened up to help with the
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: funeral and all that because my brother was ill by then.
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: And it's just rain today. Didn't get the job. Shit day.
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: James being a, can I swear?
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: James being a cunt. That's my brother. Shit day. Fucking
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: had a curry. It was like the diary of someone
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: in prison. That's what it was like. It's so weird
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: that someone could be rich and not know it. I
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: love making money, don't get me wrong, but I'm really
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: good at enjoying what I've got. So I've enjoyed every
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: level of my comedy journey and I've never been bothered
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: about whether I go further or not. Because I feel
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: like if you can have two banging holidays a year
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: and you love the house you're living in and your
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: family's healthy, done.
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: He was engaging in upward social comparisons, right, the whole time.
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: And if you do that, you're never going to be happy.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. And you see that with people in my profession
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: that are earning a million pounds a year, two million
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: pounds a year and are in debt. because they're buying
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: an AP watch every week, and they're going to the
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: Maldives four times a year, and they're in a £ 10
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: million house, so they should be in a £ 5 million house.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: It's ridiculous. That's consumerism. But it worked on a more
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: micro level. So we would, if we're going to Stansted
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: Airport to fly to Menorca, traffic's probably going to be
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: shit on the way to the airport. I'll bet you
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: the traffic will be shit. So we're already, he's pre-imagining
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: the traffic jam we'll be in. If we hit a
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: traffic jam, fucking knew it. Holiday, we'll probably miss the flight. Holidays,
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: fuck Julie. I fucking told you we should have gone first.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: I fucking told you. He didn't shout at me, but
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: he would shout to himself sort of thing.
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: Did you ever figure out where he learned that behavior,
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: where that came from?
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: No idea. Like I say, it was just all the
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: bitterness and negativity and expecting things to go wrong. That
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: was his tape, his script. So if we were in
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: a restaurant and I'd be seven years old and I'd
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: spill a glass of water, not Coke or anything, so
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: he's not going to get sticky legs. He'd be like,
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: water everywhere, fucking meal ruined. I've got to sit here
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: like I pissed myself running in time. He'd be like,
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: the worst thing in the world has happened. Like someone
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: at that moment's probably found a lump on their body.
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: But to my dad, the worst thing that can happen.
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: So I felt sorry. Looking back now, you've got to
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: feel compassion and love because it was just a constant
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: tide of self-pating negativity, basically. And imagining if we go
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: and buy something from Ikea that needs putting up, You
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: know a screw will be missing and it's because I'm me,
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: because I'm cursed. A fucking screw will be missing. You
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: can guarantee it.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: Fucking hell.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: All the time. So for a little boy growing up,
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: you've got to work really hard not to absorb that.
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: I see hints of that in my dad, especially as
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: he got older. A little bit more negative about everything. Moods,
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: you know, seem to be irritable at a lot of things.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: And one of the things that crossed my mind was,
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: I hope this isn't genetic. Like, how do I avoid
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: becoming this guy when I get to that age? Has
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: that crossed your mind that the generational cycle might continue
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: to some degree without you noticing? Obviously, yeah.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: I mean, so my brother, I can't really go into
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: my brother's illness because he's literally not well enough to
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: consent for me to talk about it. Otherwise I would
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: happily discuss it because it's an important subject to talk about,
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: but he's got some severe mental health issues. Let's just
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: leave it there. So my brother's really sort of refreshingly
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: unaware of his mannerisms and gestures and postures.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: If you like.
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: And it's just like my, it is like my old man.
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: So how can your, the way your voice and the
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: cadence of a sentence and the glances and the way
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: you say, no, I mean, and stuff like that, it
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: is my old man. So I mean, on some genetic level,
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: there are copies of how we express ourself, there must be.
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: But apart from maybe your height, I can't think of
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: anything you can't change with, loads of loads of ways
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: education cognitive behavioral therapy if you need it i never
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: have but you can um you can work on the
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: way you eat your diet your lifestyle all of those
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: you know genetics is not destiny the one of the
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: most fascinating things you can look up is identical twin
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: studies over and over again you get one twin that's
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: two inches taller than the other where he's had a
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: more successful not two inches but it might be an
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: inch taller where he's had a more successful life eating
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: better food so you can literally grow taller they're they're
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: genetically identical identical So you can't tell me I'm destined
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: to suddenly be negative about traffic jams. If two identical
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: twins can be different in height, you must be able
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: to push against behavior.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: You see that film through identical strangers. Yes.
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: Fantastic.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: Amazing.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. Fantastic.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Made me upset. Yeah. It's inspired. You know,
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: the ending is obviously tragic, but yeah, really powerful film.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: And I think that shines a light on how it does.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: It gives hope for all of us that you're not,
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: you're only 50% of your dad and 50% of your mom.
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: And although you're actually slightly more of your mom, I've
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: learned how anyway. But so you don't, you're not, if
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: you're only 50%, if twins aren't destined to be the same,
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: you're not destined to be the same as a parent.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: It's bad. It's a bad way to think, particularly if
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: it's a negative. It's a good way to think if
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: there's something you want to copy, tell yourself it, chant it.
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: I want to be more like my mom. She's such
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: a cool cat or whatever.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: We have also grown up in a slightly different culture,
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: especially in the last sort of 10, 20 years where
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: we're much more aware of our psychology, right? And our,
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: and our, and how trauma and childhood experiences have shaped
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: us as adults. Whereas I think my dad probably didn't know.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: So it was like someone back there in the control
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: room running the show without him. And he was just
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: a puppet to the shit he'd been through. Whereas we
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: are kind of a bit more open as a society now.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: So yeah, that, that's my biggest learning. Mental, mental, health
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: comes on a spectrum. It doesn't mean mentally ill. We
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: have mental health. If we have physical health, we have
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: mental health. Even if you have no issues, that's good.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: You are mental health. So mental health runs on a
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: spectrum to people that are cooking on four hobs like
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: me and you, hopefully, all the way down to people
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: like my brother who is severely, severely ill with cognition issues.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: And people who are severely ill or people who are
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: trapped in time, like our dads before an awakening, they
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: don't have insight into their current state if you do
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: not have insight into your condition you are screwed because
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: if you're let's say for example schizophrenic without insight into
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: the fact you have schizophrenia you will not take the
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: medicine you just won't take it you'll look at the
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: pill and go well i don't i'm not ill so
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: you'll you'll be in assisted accommodation your entire life if
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: you're schizophrenic but know you have schizophrenia chances are you
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: can have a relatively normal life because you know i'm
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: ill i need to take my medicine But you can
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: translate that thinking to any aspect of business or commerce,
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: to stand-ups, to entrepreneurs. Because I've noticed, I call it
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: black box thinking from the Matthew Syed book. The moment
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: you can have insight into a stand-up routine or into
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: a business proposition in a proper way where you can
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: look at it and go, that doesn't work, you're going
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: to be successful. People that don't have insight into themselves
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: in their personal lives, they end up single, they end
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: up in unhappy relationships. because they can't see their own faults.
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: They can't insight into themselves and go this.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: Quick one, starting from the minute the lockdown is lifted,
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: we're going to start bringing in some of our subscribers
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: to watch how this podcast is produced behind the scenes.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: It means you get to meet the guests, meet myself,
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: and see how we put all of this together. If
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: you want that to be you, all you've got to do,
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: hit the subscribe button. I mean, this is just an
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: impossibly tough question. Yeah. Because we're talking about self-awareness really, right?
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: So like how does, and people, people have asked me
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: this question for the last five years and I really
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: don't have a great answer still. How does one become
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: more self-aware?
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: Well, it was literally part of my degree. Oh, great.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: Perfect.
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: I'm very lucky.
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: Here we go.
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: I started doing English literature because I wanted to do
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: the most show-off, uncounselor, state-posh subject possible. I mean, I
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: was going to get a first, or I don't know
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: what was going to happen, so I told myself I'm
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: going to get a first no matter what. That was preordained.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: So I did two years of showing off about you know,
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: Roland Barthes and Jane Austen and all that. And there
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: was an opportunity in the last year to cross over
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: into creative writing. And the reason I did that is, again,
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: goes back to my dad. It's not very practical to
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: be absolutely badass on Jane Austen unless you're going to
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: want to be a lecturer or an academic. Whereas creative
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: writing is a practical profession. You can go into advertising.
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: You can go into journalism. You can try and write books.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: You can, as it turns out, go into stand-up. I
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: didn't know that yet. There's loads of places where you
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: can go, look, I'm not just got a first in English.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: I've got a first in writing. I can take body
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: copy and make your brand pop. So how do you
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: do a dissertation in creative writing? There's only one way.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: You have to submit 10,000 words, normal academic poncing about,
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: and you have to submit 10,000 word short story play,
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: but you have to run through your own work and
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: criticize it and say what you got right and what
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: you got wrong. Once you've been through that, and done
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: it loads of times, it just becomes natural to bring
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: it to your life. A copywriter in an advertising agency
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: has to be able to really hate the owner own
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: work he just created and find the faults in it
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: because that will lift it above Ogilvy's copywriter and you'll
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: win the pitch it's as simple as that the person
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: the man who cannot realise he's domineering or jealous and
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: work on that will not have a fruitful relationship with
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: a woman or a man indeed In order to.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: Do that with your life or with your copy or
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: with your work or whatever in marketing, you have to
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: have a certain level of self-esteem and personal security to
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: allow yourself to rise above your work and look back
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: down on it in a critical way. A lot of
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: people's self-esteem is so fragile that the prospect of being
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: critical is, it's just unthinkable. like, you know, and this
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: is why people get, from my experience, why people get
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: so defensive and because they're, because they're so, if you,
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: one shot to their self-esteem will take the whole house
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: down so that they immediately go like this.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: So you could look at it that way. So I
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: would say that person needs to learn not self-esteem because
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: self-esteem is a totally separate conversation. They need to learn objectivity.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: A piece of writing is a thing. A relationship is
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: a thing that you've built with someone, um, A comedy
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: routine is a thing. A poem is a thing. The
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: things over there, that's not you. You have to practice
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: being able to take the piss out of the thing,
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: criticize the thing. No, someone's not coming up to you
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: and going, you're ugly. You're unlovable. You've got a big nose.
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: You're not tall enough. Stuff like that is going to hurt.
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: And there's no way of getting objective. But if you
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: can't look at a poem you've written and someone goes,
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: I really love the meter, but the adjective there's a
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: bit obvious. You should be able to thank that person.
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: They're giving you a gift. if they know their shit,
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: but you're the one that should be saying that first.
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: M & M style, eight mile, seize the bars and
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: turn them on yourself first.
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: Hard to do. Because everything's like- It.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: Makes better work. It makes better humans. Yeah.
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: I completely agree. It's just really tough to do. Practice.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: It's practice.
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: I get a lot of, this is the message I
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: get most often sent to me via my agent or
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: an Instagram and it drives me fucking nuts. I had
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: one the other week. Oh my God, I love what
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: you do. I'm a really funny person. This is how
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: it was phrased the other week. How many gigs would
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: I have to do before I could open for you
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: on tour? Can you have a look at some stuff
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: I filmed on my phone? And I give them an
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: answer that I never get a reply to this answer.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: I say, okay, it's quite simple. Lucky for you, there
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: is a really simple model to follow. You need to
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: work unpaid for three years in the clubs, three times
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: a week. I wouldn't recommend a relationship and just warn
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: your friends you're not going to see them I started
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: to earn about two, 300 pounds a week after five years.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: At that point, you're ready to give up your day job.
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: On about the eighth or ninth year, you're going to
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: be ready to do a support slot. People don't want
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: to hear it. But if you went up to the
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: guy in the gym who's 16 stone and 5% body
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: fat and go, can you tell me how I can
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: get like that? He'd say, the machines are over there, dickhead.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: Just get going. The machines are there. You cannot skip.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: the machine, you cannot skip the tricep station. If you
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: want triceps, you can't just go, but it's going to hurt.
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: It's too much work to get a tricep. And then
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: just don't get triceps. But don't moan if you don't
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: have triceps. Head to the dip station and see you
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: in four years.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: I can, yeah, I, now I've, I've read about this.
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: My book came out last week and I wrote about
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: it in my book. I remember someone turning to me,
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: it was actually the CEO of my company now, company
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: I've just left. And he said to me, Steve, you know,
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: this personal brand stuff and this like speaking you do
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: on stage. He was like, how long did it, like,
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: how do I, he was like, how do I, how
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: do I do it? And your brain immediately scrambles around
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: looking for like three tips, right? Three tips to describe
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: like a deck. I remember my first talk in school
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: at 14 years old, my hands shaking. The truth is
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: like someone's seen you with a sharp sword and they've said,
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: how do I get a sword that sharp? So we'll
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: start sharpening it now in 10 years time. But people
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: don't want that.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: No one wants to hear the answer is boring, repetitive practice.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: For most people that are absolutely fucking excellent at something
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: have done a lot of boring, repetitive practice. practice that
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: would be boring to the person asking the question, not
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: to us. I loved every shit gig I did.
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: And that's the difference. That's what kept you doing it
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: for 10 years or two decades or whatever, is that
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: you genuinely intrinsic loved it for its, people want the rewards, right?
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: But when they, if they started and genuinely wanted, they
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: too would discover that love. If you, if you say,
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: I want to be a dentist, how do I be
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: a dentist? You start dental training and you're finding it
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: boring and a slog. Newsflash, you don't actually want to
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: be a dentist.
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: You'd be rich. Yeah.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: So find something else. Find something where you love the journey.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: That is a secret. So that's what my dad never found.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: He didn't find a job he took pleasure in. It's
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: got nothing to do with coin, although I'm into it.
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: But if you love the outdoors, you're going to love landscaping,
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: whether you're on 17 grand a year or 17 million
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: a year, you're going to love it because that's what
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: you were born to do.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: It's such a counter narrative to the narrative that sells,
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: which is like short investment, big returns. It's like seven days,
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: six pack abs. That's everyone fucking signs up for that. Imagine,
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: imagine that the like, 10 years, maybe. Maybe.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: That's true. And the problem is a lot of the
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: TV we make, I make, sells that X Factor spot,
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: do one song, live the pimp lifestyle. And of course,
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: that is what, in all of the X Factor that's
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: ever been on and all of pop star, the rivals,
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: how many of those people are now platinum selling artists
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: living in mansions?
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: What?
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: Harry Styles, try and name some.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: One direction that's it that's it.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: That's out of every single little mix doing well that's
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: out of every single one in a show that's designed
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: to push people to the front in an artificial way
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: so if you think that's going to happen if you're
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: russell from essex you're deluded it's but any business if
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: you're passionate mixed with a little bit of luck people
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: this is the other thing people like us don't like
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: putting out there but i'm afraid there is a bit
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: of luck involved And it sort of calls into, like
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: we always sat here again, I've worked so hard. Oh,
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: look at me with my work hard badge. But at
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: some point we had some luck as well, which is
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: we're in the right place, right time, mixed with the
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: hard work. So some people are more lucky than others.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: Luck is a thing. And what luck is, not luck
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: as in lottery number luck, but luck as in, oh
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: my God, you've met the perfect partner. You've got the business. Oh,
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: you were looking for a French bulldog breeder and you
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: found exactly the right one at the right time when
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: you were looking for a puppy. Why are you so lucky?
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: Why is my life so shit? So they tested this.
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: They got a bunch of people together, half people who say,
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: my life's shit, I'm so unlucky, and half people like
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: me who are like, I've got to admit, I'm a bit,
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: I'm blessed, hashtag blessed, I do have a lot of luck.
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: And they run tests on them. And the test they
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: run was very simple. The psychologist, I can't remember, he's
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: the British Jewish guy, really funny, brings loads of books out,
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: Richard something or other. He's written a book about it,
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: about luck, look it up. They gave him a newspaper each,
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: and they went in there, go into your separate rooms,
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: And on a page is a picture you're looking for.
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: Whoever finds that picture comes in first, gets £ 100 cash.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: That was the game. So everyone went in like that.
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: On page two, in massive headlines was, it's a trick,
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: stop turning. If you've read this headline, go and collect
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: the money. That was on page two. All the unlucky
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: people missed that. All the lucky people found it. Do
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: you know why? Because lucky people, their eyes are open.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: The hustlers. So it turns out you can make luck.
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: You can practice that. You can hone it. That's something
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: you can hone. Next time you walk into a meeting,
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: just think, right, what's that guy do for a living?
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: Who's that? Is that a contact? That's not luck if
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: I sit down next to someone and he happens to
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: be doing a comedy streaming service startup and he signs
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: me up. That's me being a bit bold and striking
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: up a conversation and looking at what he's wearing and
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: having a think. You can learn these skills.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: People don't like that because that puts the mirror on
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: me and creates personal responsibility. You know what I mean?
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: And I feel like in our society at the moment,
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: this is just an observation I've had, personal responsibility is
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: people fucking hate that. I remember doing a tweet about, because, okay,
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: this was me playing a bit of fuckery, but I
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: don't care. So the left of society, which I probably
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: consider myself to be on, are really in support of
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: the NHS. So I did a tweet saying the biggest
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: cost to the NHS is like, smoking, eating bad, et cetera.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: So if you really care about the NHS, take care
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: of yourself. People are like, no, Steve, this is literally,
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: the replies are like, this is not it. Because I'm
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: basically saying, if you genuinely care about the health service,
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: here is all the data. The biggest burden on the
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: NHS is people that are overweight and people that are
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: smoking or whatever.
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: Well, the obesity one's particularly controversial because there's two movements
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: at the same time. There's personal responsibility in the science
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: we're learning about obesity, particularly during COVID. I mean, if
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: you want to do one thing other than social distancing,
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: obviously get a vaccine. Most of us are too young
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: to have had a vaccine. So if you haven't had
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: the vaccine and you don't want to live life like
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: a prisoner, the best thing you can do is get
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: in shape quick. You're literally better off being, I think,
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: a thin smoker. Literally, yeah. But it's a controversial conversation because,
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: quite rightly, we're re-evaluating beauty standards and a lot of
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: people end up with eating disorders and fat shaming and
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: all that needs to go away. And as soon as
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: we associate personal responsibility, longevity, and health with a body type,
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: we're in a difficult area where we create shame for
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: people based on how they look, which is something we
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: want to get rid of. So for someone like me
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: who's on the left, my head just goes pop.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't know where to start.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: Smoking is a slam dunk. Don't smoke, you're a bellend.
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: End off. Dickhead, don't smoke. Stop costing me money on
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: the NHS. But someone that might be... overweight it's very
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: very complex to understand why someone's overweight it's something I
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: studied a lot not because I've been overweight but because
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: I'm fascinated with biohacking and body and all of that.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: And I think the most illuminating thing I can tell
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: anyone about being overweight is that eating too much does
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: not make you overweight. This is, no one understands this.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: I'm going to blow your mind here. Being overweight causes
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: you to eat too much. Once you have the metabolic
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: condition of being overweight, that fucks your circuitry, which drives
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: you to eat more. Obesity causes calorie surplus. So shaming
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: people for eating too much is a waste of time
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: because most people with busy lives and kids and no money.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: are in a condition that's compelling them to eat more,
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: might be emotionally compounded, might be psychologically compounded, they might
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: be recovering from abuse, they might be recovering from a
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: bad relationship, they might just be skin and can only
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: afford fucking nuggets and they're just tired, they're not getting
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: enough sleep. And unfortunately, until you get into a low
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: fat state like us, where it's easy to regulate your calorie,
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: every part of your body is telling you to feed
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: this obesity. No one understands that. I've gone deep into
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: the science. I'm not a scientist, so look it up
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: for yourself before everyone starts trolling me saying literature degree boy.
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: But as far as I understand the science, layman's cards
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: on table, obesity causes overeating. Now that is just boom.
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: But it helps us to be more, as much as
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: I agree with what you're saying, it just, it leavens
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: more compassion into people's weight loss journey. Although you're absolutely correct.
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: If you don't want to die of COVID-19, And you
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: don't want to cost the NHS money. Getting in shape
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: is one of the best ways to do it.
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: But of course it's not easy. And I've had moments
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: in my life where I've been most stressed and it's
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: a downward cycle. Like, you know what I mean? So
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: you eat and then you require sugar more and sugar
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: becomes this addictive thing in my life. And it only
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: happens to me when I'm stressed. So I'll have my
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: little moments as a downward cycle in my health when
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: there's a lot on my mind. And so, yeah, I mean,
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: compassion is certainly incredibly important in that regard. What about
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: more broadly? So outside of health, the topic of personal
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: responsibility is, I like it because it's controversial. And I
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: discuss the nuance of it.
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: Trying to get us in the Daily Mail here.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: No, no, no.
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: Fat people should pay for themselves.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: No, just generally in your life and success and what
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: you can accomplish. The fortunate position I'm in, which is
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: what I talked about in my last podcast, was because
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: I came from a very broke family where my mum
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: can't read or write and I was born in Africa
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: and we didn't have anything, no Christmas, birthdays or holidays.
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: My journey in life, people don't discredit it. They don't
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: point at me and say, oh, you know silver spoon
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: you can't fucking talk yeah so i feel like i
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: can have the conversation a little bit more about personal
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: responsibility of course i'm fucking incredibly lucky like i didn't
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: choose to be me you know what i mean i
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: didn't choose my parents or the the good and bad
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: things that shaped me yeah but i but i want
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: to i want to have a conversation about personal responsibility
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: as it relates to career success and let's let's start
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: with hard work because in our society right now there's
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: two counter narratives one is that don't work like incredibly hard,
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: you're going to burn out and you're going to have
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: mental health problems. And the other is I've never met
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: someone that sat here in front of me that doesn't
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: work really fucking hard. And I did, I don't know
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: how I would have sat here without hard work and
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: tremendous sacrifice.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: Well, first of all, we sort of already made the
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: point that a lot of people are working hard at
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: things they hate. So working hard at things you dislike, hate,
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: or find stressful will bring success and money, but at
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: a cost. Working hard at things you love. I finished
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: filming at midnight last night in Maidstone. I got in
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: at half one. I had my dinner at two and
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: I fell asleep at three. And I bounced out of
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: bed this morning to come here to do a podcast
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: for the price of a car.
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: Why?
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: Because I love what I do. Now, if I had
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: got in at three from working as a hospital porter
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: and had to get up to do another job, which
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: was quite well paid this morning, but I hated it.
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't be buzzing. And that's what releases the cortisol
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: and the stress hormone into your body. So you can't compare.
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: You're not comparing like, and like, even though both people
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: are working hard, you've even got people that might be
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: barristers or S or doctors. Really well paid professions, but
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: find it stressful when they're burnt out and stuff is unlikely.
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: You and I will burn out because I'm like, what's next.
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: And you're intrinsically motivated by you've got a sense of control.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: Exactly. So that's, that's what I think that I think
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: we can, we can differentiate there on hard work straight away.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: So far, I'm more interested in the first thing you
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: said about the, the join between people's origin story and
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: how much stick they get for the success they've got.
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: Cause I'm, I have to phrase mine a lot more
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: than you because I get put in with the silver
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: spoon guys, because I may just a white man. Yeah.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: So I'm not going to use real names here and
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to use real jobs because I respect
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: my profession is so hard. I don't give a shit
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: whether you're Prince Charles doing standup, anyone who does stand up.
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: I just, it's so hard to stand up. Um, and
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: I don't think an elite background helps you in standup
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: might help you in telly and production won't help you
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: on stage with a bucket of piss. But I've been
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: told on more than one occasion, uh, we'd love, we'd
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: love to book you for the X show, but we've
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: already got Ollie. And so we got Ollie, we can't
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: have two. And I'm like, how me to me and
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: Ollie represent the same thing? I sometimes think, well, I've
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: got more in common with, I could phone up, I
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: don't know if you know who Judy Love is. I
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: could phone up Judy now and we could speak for
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: an hour. We both grew up in a similar part
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: of London, similar age, similar family. Yes, she's got Jamaican stories,
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: but I've got Essex stories. That's the only difference in
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: our conversation. We come from the same place. place economically
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: we come we're fighting the same fight we're punching up
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: from when we never no one would ever say that
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: I'll probably be in trouble for even saying that that's
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: the controversial thing for me to say and it shouldn't
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: be because if Corbyn and people like that have got
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: it right everyone who starts with what I call lower
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: entitlement points I've got a lot more entitlement points than
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: a woman of color undoubtedly I've got less less entitlement
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: points probably than a Ghanaian prince right so all the
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: people that have got fuck all i'll start with i
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: should link arms doesn't matter what gender you are what
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: color you are that would be powerful i'm a bit
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: nervous when we get carved up and we're people who
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: start in life in a tower block should that tower
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: block should be united you know what i mean so
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: that's the first point but i do i do think
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: you we get off we do get off lightly if
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: we've got money if we had a more council estate
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: background is like a license to be okay with having money.
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: Like I can wear my rollie by the pool when
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: I'm in Ibiza because I sound common.
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: If I sounded posh, I probably would keep the Breitling on.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: It's so true. I, one of, one of my guests
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: that I had on the podcast, um, went to a
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: very good school and, um, is white and blonde and
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: very pretty. And she basically can't give advice to anybody.
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: without the papers smashing her or social media. In fact,
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: there was a meme the week before she came on
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: the podcast. There was a meme that went viral. I
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: think it did 250,000 retweets the day she released her book.
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: And it was this someone pinned someone up against the
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: wall with a big trumpet. And it was like white
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: privilege telling you how to become rich. She is not
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: allowed to give advice to anybody because she's white and
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: went to Oxford.
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: And how much good insight and business knowledge and whatever
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: do we lose?
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: So many people went to Oxford and didn't build multi-million pound,
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: two multi-million pound companies. I still want to hear this
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: from this person.
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: If someone's offering you knowledge, it's not like she's telling
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: you about her struggles. The other day there was a
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: queue in Waitrose and I just couldn't cope. That would
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: be the trumpet, right? She's trying to tell you how
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: to build a business. So it doesn't matter where you,
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: if you come from space, if you can make me money,
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: Tell me how, if you can tell me how to
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: start the next comedy streaming platform service where I own
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: 40% of the shares, I don't give a fuck if
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: you've got a double first from Cambridge or whether you're
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: one of the mandem, I don't care. Show me where
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: to show me how to do it. You've got to have,
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: you've got to have an open knowledge is, is, is
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: once it's out there is democratic. The path to acquiring
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: it is not. Um, but there's no doubt about trying
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: to stay on topic. What you're saying about personal responsibility is,
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: I'm really split on this because I don't believe it's
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: true that anyone with enough will and luck can make it.
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: I think we're probably outliers and freaks and just wired
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: a bit different and have got what it takes to
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: push through. I think if enough blocks are in place,
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: you're a single child of a drug-using mum in a
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: towel block. And I am built of stronger stuff. So
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: I've bounced through my childhood and I've come out the
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: other side, but a lot of people aren't. If we
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: were all born the same, then why aren't I playing basketball?
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: Why am I not sprinting? Why am I not a
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: maths scholar? Some of us are born genetically more equipped
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: in other departments. I'm clearly a highly energetic person who's
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: good at motivating themselves. Some part of that is inborn.
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: I was like it as a baby before I could speak.
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: The other toddlers are like dribbling on their blocks and
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: I'm like, where the blocks at? So it's unfair for
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: us to go if only Neil at the top of
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: the tower block could have been like us. He too
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: could have been an entrepreneur because maybe just being a
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: single mum, being of colour or being transgender or being,
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: not everyone has the strength to push through those things.
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: Not everyone does. And it's unfair to go up to
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: a wheelchair and go, just stand mate. i'm using willpower
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: with my legs why can't you because some people that
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: that is a wheelchair their social background and they don't
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: have the strength and then they start using drugs and
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: they just sink too low not everyone can pull themselves
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: out so that's why we do need more equality.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree. I'm definitely pro-equality. There's a sense of
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: helplessness I get if I go all the way and say,
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: you know, successful people, well, they were born with something.
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: It creates a sense of like, well, then we're all
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: just stuck in our lanes forever. And if I believe
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: that when I was shoplifting pizzas in Manchester. But then again,
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: so what I do understand, I actually, the harder I reflect,
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: I basically give myself credit for nothing because I was
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: born into a situation in a country where I actually
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: think my bad experiences are why I'm here. Like the
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: fact that my parents weren't around at 10 years old,
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: created this big gap of independence, et cetera, et cetera.
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: I've told this story a million times. But it's the
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: bad shit that is the reason that I became an outlier,
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: I think. I became very obsessive, obsessed with money. My book,
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: that's why it's called Happy Sexy Millionaire because it's the
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: first page of my diary when I was like a kid.
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: I want to be a happy, why did I want
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: to be a happy sexy millionaire? Because we were fucking broke.
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: Have you got siblings though?
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I've got three.
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: So are they all happy sexy millionaires?
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: Not one of them. None of them are like me.
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: And they don't understand me either. They look at me
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: and like scratch their head.
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: But what does that tell you? It's almost like you've
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: run a controlled experiment.
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: Tuning out genetics versus willpower.
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: The difference between my childhood experience and theirs was they
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: were raised by parents and I basically wasn't. So I
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: was the youngest. So by the age of I was 10,
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: my parents were like, oh, we've done parenting now. We
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: will work all the time and we will be out
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: of the house when Steve comes home and we'll be
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: at the house when he wakes up. So I was
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: the only one where the experiment was total independence.
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: So thought experiment for you. If you'd have been born
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: a fraternal twin, another boy.
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: So as much your brother as your other brothers, but
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: happened to be born at the same time, same conditions,
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: same school, everything happens. So do you believe you would
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: have another happy, sexy millionaire living in the flat opposite?
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: Or do you think depends what that brother's personality was like?
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: Because we both know that that brother's personality is what
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: would have decided that whether he sat at this table
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: with us today or not. And personality does come into it.
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: We are born with different personalities to an extent. So
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying we're all stuck in our lanes, but
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: I'm saying we need more social mechanisms because some Einsteins
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: don't have energy. Some Einsteins might be a bit emotionally weaker.
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: So say in my example of Neil at the top
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: of the tower block, he might be really fucking amazing.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: We will never harvest that talent because our society is
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: set up with too many blocks in place. to scoop
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: it out. We had one thing in place for about
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: 40 years called grammar schools. Very controversial, very unfair, dumping
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: a load of 11 year olds in the thick bin.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: My mum went to a secondary modern, my dad went
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: to a secondary modern, my wife, my brother-in-law, my mother-in-law
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: and father-in-law all went to secondary moderns. So I know
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: people who were told, you're no good at 11. So
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: I don't say this lightly and I know how horrific
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: that is, but the data does suggest that there were,
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: there was a short period where we scooped off some bright,
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: poorer children, not necessarily kneel in the tower block, but
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: at least the poorer children whose parents meant well, but
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: were too poor.
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: We got them.
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: We got more Einsteins. When you watch question time, switch
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: it on. And I went to a state school and
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: they're giving it all that. It will always be a
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: grammar school. Always is very rarely. I went to the
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: local comprehensive and now I'm an MP. It's always, I
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: went to which state school? You went to an elite
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: education state, but elite selective. So we need some more
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: stuff like that. What can we do in our communities?
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: What can our youth workers do? What can we set
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: up in council estates, headhunters that look for talent, particularly boys?
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: I'm going to say that because I was a boy once,
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: but there's a real problem with teenage boys. All this
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: testosterone kicks in and it goes the wrong way for
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: most of us.
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: When I came on your podcast, you asked a very
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: Controversial questions. I think you like those questions. Those are
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: the ones that are most interesting.
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: To you, aren't they?
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: Well, as long as I don't get in trouble.
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: Well, it's hard to tell. Hindsight's a wonderful thing. So
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: I guess my, I was just thinking then, this is
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: a controversial question, but he asked me a controversial question,
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: so I can answer it. Is there no hope for
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: some people? Give me, so zoom out context. Got a friend,
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: tried really hard to help them change their life or
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: do something for themselves. 10 years of effort, made all
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: the offers in the world for this person. Still... Job
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: seekers allowance, you know, somewhat depressed, can't seem to have
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: any impact. We grew up in the same street. We
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: were best friends my whole childhood. I went off. He
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: stayed there.
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: I've got tons of examples like that. So I have
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: to speak very euphemistically now. I'll be cancelled, not by
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: the internet, but by my friends and family, stroke, associate, stroke.
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: I don't even want to say which group these people
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: are in. All of this. I've had female friends who
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: I'm like, stop dating bastards. And the next guy, he's nice.
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: He's a Coke dealer. And he's like, he's going to fucking,
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: he's going to shag your mate. And some of these
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: women are getting to 35, you know, like with the
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: final egg in the goblet, like in Indiana Jones waiting
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: to be fertilized. And this, the next guy, he's got,
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: we've got three kids by three different women. He has,
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: he's got an electronic tag, but it's great because we
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: can spend some time. Just bang a boring guy or
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: a guy that likes Dungeons and Dragons or an accountant.
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: What?
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: There's a sexual attraction there to bastard men that some women,
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: particularly from my sort of background, working class women, find
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: hard to get over would be one example. But you
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: can get over it. It is possible to do it.
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: The mistake people like you and I make is we
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: try to help. And say you've got a friend who's unmotivated, depressed,
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: leaves every job after three months. It's always someone else's fault.
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: It's always the system. It's always if only Corbyn was
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: in power. It's my dad did this. My mom did that.
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: Always putting it on someone else. And then you're making
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: it worse by putting it on you. Let me help.
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: You're just a positive version of that. The solution is
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: they have to switch the light bulb on in themselves.
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: They may not get there. But the moment they wake
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: up and go, today's the day I'm going to try
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: and change my life. They should. That's the first step.
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: It might be speaking to a therapist. It might be
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: changing your career. It might be enrolling in A-levels that
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: you do at night time, like I did. That was what,
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: lucky enough, my revelation came up when I was 18.
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: Did you run JobSeeker's Allowance at one point?
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: I was, yeah. I did my A-levels late because I
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: had this spark moment. But it's got to come from
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: within them. It's not something, as yet, although science might
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: get there one day, that we can give to you
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: in a pill or an injection. You've got to suddenly have,
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: right back to the beginning of the chat, insight. and
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: be like, boom, chest out. I'm going to see a therapist.
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to use negative language. I'm going to
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: get this self-help book, which gives me some CB, cognitive
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: behavioral therapy tools. I always munged up the cannabis, CBT.
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: So yeah, it's got to come from them. But for
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: you and I, fixes, how can we solve it? How
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: can I redraft the copy? What's the solution? Unfortunately, the
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: solution is trying to get them to have some insight.
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: So if you have got a friend like that, maybe
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: have that sort of conversation with them that spurs self-reflection.
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: because giving them a million pound a year job is
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: just going to make them worse because that muscle that's
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: atrophied will stay atrophied. That sort of standing up, making
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: your own strength muscle.
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: I've been on my Huel journey for a couple of
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: years now, but in the case of some of my
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: best friends who I've talked about on this podcast before,
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: one particular friend called Ashley Jones, who knows that I
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: talk about him and his transformation story, he did have
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: a problem eating certain foods. And so he transitioned to
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: making Huel a greater part of his diet. And the
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: guy went from being, and I'm sorry, Ash, if you're listening,
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: the guy went from being like slightly overweight, constantly having
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: health issues that are unrelated to like, you know, being
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: slightly overweight, to literally having a six pack, posting his
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: six pack on Instagram, but more importantly, being high energy
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: and feeling amazing, So when I'm like, you know, talking
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: to you guys about Huel, I do so with such
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: a level of passion because I believe that it can
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: really help change your lives in a significant way. I
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: believe it can make you mentally better. I know it
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: can make you physically better. And so, yeah, what a
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: joy it is to have a sponsor that you believe
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: in that much. Yeah. And they're also just really good people.
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: One of the most probably scary things from my perspective
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: that you ever did was walking out on stage for
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: the first time for your first gig ever. Like, what
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: the fuck were you thinking? Going out and walking in
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: front of people and telling fucking jokes. Are you sure?
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: With me, it's even more complex because I don't know
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: if you've had any standups on here before.
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: Never.
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: But the majority of them, and quite rightly so, will
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: be like, from a young age, I used to watch blah, blah,
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: blah on TV. I used to watch all these American comics.
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: I used to watch Chris Rock, Bill Burr, Bill Hicks.
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: I knew that's what I wanted to do, man. I
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: was like, you know, I was like the young boxer
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: in the alleyway. I knew I was going to box.
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: None of that. nothing. There is zero in my CV
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: that shows an affinity for the craft of standup. Always
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: been the joker. I'm not being funny today. I don't
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: know why you got me on one, but normally I'm
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: always asking around. Not, this is not a thing I
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: do on stage. I'm just, I'm like the clown person. Just,
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: just my, that again, I've just always been, I just
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: love making people laugh. I've always been a joker. There's
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: some data to suggest, um, youngest children have it, and
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: I'm not the youngest child, the oldest, or people born
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: in August and July, purely because if you're smaller than
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: everyone else, you've got to develop your personality quick. So
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: if you look at the premiership, you won't find many
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: footballers born in August.
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: I'll explain why I never made it. August.
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: August 26th so you won't find 26th as well you
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: won't find many sportsmen or anyone that requires size or
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: physical prowess those professions so even if you turn out
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: to be a very tall teenager you're less likely to
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: become a basketball player than a teenager one inch shorter
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: than you who was born in october The reason being
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: you'd have been pushed by the coach and taught and
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: everything early doors at six, seven, eight years old. So,
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: and there is some data to suggest that people who
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: work with their personalities for a living, people that have
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: to solve entrepreneurs and find little rat runs and alleyways
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: develop that based on being smaller or more vulnerable. That
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: could take lots of forms. I've got an overbearing dad
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: as well. So I'm an August baby overbearing dad. And
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: some of it will be genetic. My mom's very funny.
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: And you talked a little bit about, I was reading
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: some of your previous interviews, you talked a little bit
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: about how it was a bit of a defence mechanism
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: maybe in school. You found your place by being a... Yeah,
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: I wasn't, but I don't know how I wasn't bullied,
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: but I wasn't. Smallest, no girlfriend, wasn't in with the
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: in crowd at all. I was sort of like in
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: a sort of external group that had diplomatic immunity. Definitely virgin,
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: definitely no cool friends. Definitely one of the idiots, but
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: we don't punch him because he's sort of all right.
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: Obviously I did get, as a working class school, I
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: did get punched a lot, but not as much as,
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: I was in that league, you probably won't even remember them,
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: just above the bullied, the boring grey league. Yeah, no point.
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, which is the place to be at school. Because
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: if you're popular at school, we all know you're going
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: to have.
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: A shit life.
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: So anyway, so because of where I grew up, It's
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: not people like, well, how can you have no contact
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: with standups? You've got to remember my age. I know
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: I look young, young for my age. I'm 45. So
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: what was my dad watching on TV? Jim Davison, Bernard Manning,
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: Jimmy Jones. It's like Bruce Forsyth and Jimmy Tarbuck, like,
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: you know, live at the Palladium and all that. It's
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: not that obviously they're all talented comedians. And I do,
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: I do mean that, but it just didn't resonate with
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: what it's not. It's not about my life. So I'd like,
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: I'd laugh because my dad was laughing. but I was like,
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: what's this crazy art form? I've got to learn more.
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: Me and my friends, mostly either smoking, it's all about
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: getting high, or we'd watch old young ones or whatever
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: the funny sitcom of the day was, Men Behaving Badly
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: or whatever it was. That's what I thought comedy was. No,
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: we didn't go to the theatre at the weekend. We
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: didn't like, which cultural pursuit should we do this weekend, family?
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: It was like, dad works all week, he's tired. We
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: have a curry, your nan looks after you. And then
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: when you get to 15, 16, you get stoned over
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: the park, get someone pregnant, work in a shop, die.
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: That's it. That's the finish line. So I managed to,
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: like I say, have this weird entrepreneur turn my life around,
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: get my first class degree moment. But just by sheer
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: bad luck, I ended up at a university that did
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: not have a standup night. Most of them do. So again,
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: I went those three years without any exposure to in
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: the student bar standup. It was all music. There was
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: some theater. No one talked about standup. We didn't have
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: this sort of slightly fashionable thing now of being obsessed
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: with American stand-ups. I like to say to my British colleagues,
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: just remember, if you start having this sort of slick
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: quality to your stand-up, it can look a bit mannered.
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: That's just a side point. So I went all the
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: way to the office to my dream job as an
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: advertising copywriter with no content with stand-up, just being funny
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: as fuck, the clown, you know, legend on a night out,
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: first one up dancing. But I didn't know that I
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: was something you could do for a living. And I
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: ended up doing a job I loved, branding, copywriting headlines.
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: I still love it. You can tell by the way
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: I'm describing it. And then the creative planner was like,
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: you're always the one up at the pitches. I would
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: do like, if we're pitching to a big client, I
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: would do like the funny bit with interaction to get
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: them on side when I'm presenting the creative. He said,
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: why don't you try stand-up? Stephen Workman, if you're watching,
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: thank you. Where did you stay? Stand up with your mind.
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: It's close region. And I thought, you know what? Do
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: it once. Like doing a bungee jump or a skydive
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: or karaoke. It's just, that's as far as my thinking went.
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: Something to tell the kids. So I wrote a few
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: ideas down in a book, booked an open spot in,
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: and I went and did it. It was very scary.
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: I think I did a pack of Imodium before I
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: went on. And my hand was shaking. And I got that.
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: It wasn't, obviously it wasn't great, but I did well-ish, well-ish,
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: First laugh was like someone stuck cocaine, heroin, ketamine, everything
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: in my, not that I've done those drugs, but everything
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: in my veins. And I was hooked in the proper
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: sense of that. It fucked my life. Everything fell apart
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: like a junkie. How can I get more of that?
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: I want to gig five nights a week for no money.
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: I've got a creative director. We're talking about multi, multi-million
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: pound accounts. advertising is you work till 8pm, you have
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: pizza on your birthday under your table, you sleep at
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: the office. I'm running off to do unpaid gigs in Manchester.
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: My relationship with my girlfriend fell apart. My bills started
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: to not be paid. I started to look thin because
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: I suffered with my nerves in the beginning. I'm throwing up,
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: like both ends. It's the closest thing to a drug
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: addiction that I've ever experienced. I would have not seen
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: my mum for a year to chase this dream. I
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: was hooked on that laugh. I'm like, this is what
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: I'm born to do. I just fucking know it. How
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: can I monetize it, basically?
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: Why were you hooked on the laugh? Why did the
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: laugh matter so much to you?
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: It's a rush. It's a rush. I've not taken any
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: serious drugs, but anyone that's taken any recreational drugs, which
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: is a bad analogy because they're not actually addictive. But coffee,
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: for example, I can't live my life without it. Why
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: are you addicted? It's as absurd as asking me why
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: I'm addicted to coffee. Because I go, I wake up,
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: I feel alive and have an amazing day. The same.
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: Laugh goes in, buzz, serotonin, pupils dilated. Afterwards, I want
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: to tell everyone about the gig. I was taking shit
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: footage into work and showing it to people and playing
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: it in the office. Look at me. That's me. Come
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: and look at me, this grainy footage. I mean, that's
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: so embarrassing that I did that. I couldn't. I just
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe I was getting laughs
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: from strangers. It was straight to the ego, straight to
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: the cortex.
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: Everyone has that. But do you, have you ever considered
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: that you might have, that might have mattered more to you,
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: maybe because of your childhood or whatever, than other people? That,
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: that sense of like that validation and that.
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe. I mean, I'd had plenty of validation at work.
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: I'd had the whole office cheer. I've rung the bell
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: when we've won big pitches. I've got the rush in
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: the meeting, but nothing worked. it's the difference. I'm trying
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: not to talk about drugs all the time. It's the
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: difference between going from a beer to MDMA, right? I
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: don't recommend any hard drugs, obviously, particularly people that work
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: with their brains. You're a fool if you mess with
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: the equipment, but you can't compare them. When you say
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: everyone has that, not everyone stood on stage to a
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: thousand people and seen people standing and clapping. That is different.
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: It's of a different category of ego rush very dangerous.
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: What problems does it give you well initially all has
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: come with it.
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: So initially that my life fell my life fell apart
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: like a junkies i was down to 10 stone at
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: one point um so it come to the point where
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: i had to say this needs to not be a
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: drug this needs to be a food and i left
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: the agency and then i was you know.
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: Off still today though right so all All things come
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: with their costs. What is the cost today of that
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: career and that rush and that?
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: I suppose the worst thing is the travel. That is
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: a genuine negative one. Since Min has been born, my daughter,
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: I actually quite like traveling. I like being in the
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: back of a car. I love watching movies. I love
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: reading and I love eating on the move. So all
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: the things that most people hate, I just happen to
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: quite enjoy. Just pure, I don't know why. Cause I'm
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: always on the go. I like being forced to sit
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: still and watch a movie. So I love flights, for example,
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: the longer, the better.
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: You still shit yourself now when you get, when you're
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: about to.
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's big time. But so far as, so far
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: as missing part of your child growing massive negative doing
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: a tour is there's a guilt thing in your gut.
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: And you know, you do cry a bit after FaceTime
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: and that particularly when it's a baby. So that's the
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: biggest negative I can think of. But once you're with
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: a woman or a man that, gets it there's no
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: negative in your relationship i was with a couple of
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: girls before who would make me feel bad about being
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: away whereas lindsey's kicking me out the door she's focused
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: on the business we're a team that's well paid fuck
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: off see you later don't call home if you're stressed
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: i'm cool with it that's what you need man you
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: need somebody gets it i do shit myself though still
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: yes do you know when do you know the the
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: um modium scale goes up depending on how much of
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: my show it is so if you'd booked a show
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: for me today where you're going to introduce me and
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: i'm going to do 20 minutes stand up You've got
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: 2000 people in the room. There would be nerves there,
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: fair bit of nerves, but mostly I'm ready to knock
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: the gig the fuck out with my first punch. If
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: you've put an event on and Michael McIntyre's closing and
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: you're hosting it and you're to me at the last
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: minute said, Russ, I've decided to do two halves. Can
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: you do 20 minutes at the top? I'd shit myself
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: because they're not there for me. They're there for you
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: and him. And I've got a conversion job to do. Right.
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: And the risk is massive. Then Michael's fans are your fans.
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: And that's when the nerves kick in when I'm doing
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: Royal Variety Show or live at the Apollo where people
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: have responded to a TV ticket, not me. That's when
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: the nerves go back to old school style nerves.
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: How do you, what's the battle you have with those
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: nerves in terms of your cognition? And before you go
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: on stage, what are the tips you can give people?
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: There's two ways to work on that. The first thing
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: is the actual practical thing on the night, I would
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: say just work with breathing and mindfulness and all the
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: stuff you've probably read a thousand times. The other thing
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: to do is if you can find a way to
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: do it, it depends which stage of your career you're at.
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: If you're at the stage of the career like me
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: and you, a lot of people, I'm not trying to
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: be offensive. A lot of people are sucking our dicks
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: a lot of the time. So we're constantly walking into
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: the rooms where people think we're legends. It's never going
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: to be a difficult gig. Now and again, something comes
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: up where you're the tadpole and you don't have the
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: hardware in place. And fucking Bill Gates is speaking before you.
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: Oprah's hosting it. And all of a sudden you're, who's
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: this guy? You're having a day of who's this guy.
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: We're all, we can all have a who's this guy day.
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: And the only way to practice that is to put
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: yourself in more who's this guy moments regularly. So how
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: I do that, as soon as my tour finishes, I
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: book the smallest, hardest, weirdest, they might have bad lighting,
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: they might have no microphone, they might be half sold
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: and I'm unlisted. Unlisted, unannounced, unexpected. And I'll walk on
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: to tiny clubs full of drunk men, 50 year old
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: UKIP dads, all of those places. I put myself in
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: those all the time because the risk is high, the
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: nerves are the same, But the consequence is zero. So
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: I'm constantly training the muscle of convert the people who
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: don't know who I am, keeping it sharp the whole time.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: So whatever business you're in, you'll be able to think
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: of an equivalent way of doing that. So set up
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: smaller situations where you're having to keep that muscle because
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: the danger is the more successful you get, you lose
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: the muscle of walking into a room full of skeptics.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: And if you lose that muscle, that's the money-making muscle.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: So practice it. I keep mine tight at all times.
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: I constantly put myself in unbuilt, unlisted, unideal situations. When
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: you walk onto a stage, when you're at my level,
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: which I would call myself quite recognizable, you can't say
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: I'm like Michael McIntyre or Chris Rock or someone, but
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: I'm sort of known as a standup. So what that
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: means is when I walk on stage at the comedy store,
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: late show, 400 people drunk off their tits, work do's,
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: hen do's, and I'm unbilled, unexpected, unlisted, the room splits
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: into three straight away. It splits into, oh my God,
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: it's him. Fucking what a treat. We've got him for
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: 20 quid. To the middle, who's that? Am I supposed
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: to know who that is? Is he good? I don't know.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: I think I've seen him. And the final group, can't
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: stand this cunt. That's the only group I'm playing to.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: We're in a little bit in the middle group. They're
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: the only people I'm interested in because that's where the
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: muscle building exercise is. And then when you go on
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: stage to your audience, they get you like that.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah. But if you come with that conversion energy to
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: your own audience, you must be, you.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: Don't need it. That's the problem. All you gotta do
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: is put your foot out and they're like, it's his foot.
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: He's amazing.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: That's, that's the problem.
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: That's the problem. You get flabby easy in all businesses.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: So you talked about your relationships there and your current partner. I, um,
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: I heard you got married for nine months. Oh, yes.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: You'd forgotten.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Sorry, I realise what you mean. Yeah, no, I did.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: I was married.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: I was married.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: So I'm currently, I'm trying to enjoy my middle marriage.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: That's what I say to people.
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: Middle marriage. Okay.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: No, I was, so we were just, we realised we
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: were just mates. There was a romance there. We had
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: a lot in common. We were both into this same
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: world and we were sort of living together and we
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: got married and we were like, that was a mistake.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: And then we just weren't married. And it was totally amicable. No,
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: no fighting, no problems at all.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: But you talked about the understanding that your current partner
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: has current wife.
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So my former partner, the one who was married
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: to for nine months had that as well, which is
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: why we, so we thought we should probably get married,
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: but we realized marriage needs more than that. Um, so yeah,
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: so Lindsay is more, Lindsay doesn't get jealous unless I
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: do something dickhead, like follow a glamour model and instant
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: and like a bikini pic, which I get my ass kicked,
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: but still do cause I'm Neanderthal. And, uh, Because I'm
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: a man.
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: Monkey press button, can't help it.
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: So unless I do something stupid like that, which I
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: rightly get in trouble for, or like change my flight
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: in Ibiza and go to a boat party, which I
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: also tried to do and got my ass kicked for. So,
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: but if I'm on the road and doing autographs afterwards
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: and there's all girls in the picture or something, I've
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: never ever, like Lindsay's just not even a flicker. She
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: gets it. That's the job is every, you're everyone's friend.
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: If the girls fancy you in the audience, Even better.
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: That means another Maldives holiday type thing. That's the way.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: She's in business mode. She is a bit of an entrepreneur, Lindsay.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: She's got two businesses and she sees my business as
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: a business. And she never, ever guilts me over being,
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: I might be away for four nights.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: I won't.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: Some days I've gone, shit, I didn't phone home. I
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: didn't text. I didn't even, now and again, all I
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: have to do is do a good night. And she
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: knows that my head might be full. There's never any fallout. Never.
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: Never.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: And that just makes the trust and the bonds. It's just,
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: of course, I then do call home. It just works
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: because of that.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: You're someone that will get a lot of attention because it's,
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's your job, right? It's like to keep holding.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: Literally to seek attention is my job.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: And women, they love funny guys, right? So you know,
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: I don't know if this is going to get in trouble,
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: but you know that you could have a lot of
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: different partners if you wanted to.
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: I could be harvesting 24 seven.
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: That's what I mean.
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: I probably would have fractured pelvis by now if I
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: hadn't got married.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: People are going to hate this question because they think
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: I'm encouraging it, but I'm here to play devil's advocate.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: Why aren't you?
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: Well, um, I fell deeply in love and got married
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: and I'm just, again, you go back to the childhood
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: undivorced parents. It's just what I modeled on this. I've
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: never had a problem with saying to a girl, um,
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: the relationship's done. My head's starting to be turned. Let's
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: move on. And as much as it breaks my heart,
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: if I ever felt that way, I would, Obviously, with
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: a marriage and a child, I would sit down to
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: Lindsay and say, there's an issue here. I've started to
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: have these thoughts. How can we work on it? And
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: we'd work something out. So that's just my way I operate.
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: Hardly any men do. Sorry, girls, for my sex. If
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: only men did. I mean, but they don't. So I'm
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: trying to, a man should go, I haven't done anything.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: but I'm having these thoughts. What does it mean? Does
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: it mean we're not in love? Does it mean sexually
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: our relationship's not exciting? Is there something we can do that,
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: some games we can play to mimic that? I don't know, whatever.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: Couples need to just have that conversation because if you
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: pretend men and women aren't having those thoughts, you're naive.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: So you need to keep the relationship alive. That's the
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: way to do it. Why am I married? Well, A,
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: I'm 45, remember? And B, I'm more.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: Serial monogamist so I'd gone from age 16 to 30
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: odd be with a girl for three years break up
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: get straight with another girl literally the next week break
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: up on anywhere between nine months to three year relationships
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: never had a one-night stand I'd never been single I'd
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: never been on a lad's holiday so when I split
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 2: up it's a bit weird but my mum was like
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: you are not gonna find a sustainable relationship because of
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: all these reasons you said you're gonna get a lot
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: of female attention You're always going to wonder what it's like.
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: She went, I was you. I would have a year
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: on your own. So I set the clock and I
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: was like, Panani master in action. And we're not cynically,
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: not cynically shagging.
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: That's going to be the promo clip.
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: But not cynically shagging, but being, it's more to it
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: than just shagging. It was like just being in a,
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 2: living in a flat on your own. Banging flat in London.
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 2: I've still got, I use it as my London residence.
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 2: and i just thought you've still got it yeah does
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: your wife know well we stay there all the time
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: and uh she's and i'm like i can i can
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: come out and live i've never lived on my own
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: before i'd always live with a woman always live with
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 2: a girl and uh it was just nice i just
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: be in my pajamas have a curry and then i
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 2: could i could or i would i would just think
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: i'm gonna go out on the pool after the gig
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: and that gets boring quick unless you've got some sort
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: of um like sex addiction issue, and you're addicted to
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: lots of different women. I'm not that type of dominant
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: guy that needs to fuck a thousand women to prove
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: I've walked the earth. I more, without getting too personal,
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: I do enjoy, I'm a highly sexed individual, very, unfortunately
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: for Lindy, incredibly high sex drive, like a 19 year
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 2: old lad, but it's sex I enjoy, not conquering women.
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: So I can quench that thirst with one woman over
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: and over again, But I did want to know what
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: it was like to, you know, to be single, to
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: be free. And part of that, I'm sure it's the
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 2: same for a woman, for a man is to go,
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: what's it like to have a one night stand or
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: to be, to be a, have this rockstar lifestyle and
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 2: sleep with loads of women. The difference I did it
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: was if I was going out after a gig or
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 2: if a girl had DM'd me and we were going
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: out or whatever, just missed Tinder. I would say, this
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: is where I'm at. This is what I do for
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: a living. I'm single. I do love making love and
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 2: I love going out, but there is no relationship here.
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: I would never went to bed with a woman dangling
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 2: any fake carrots ever. I think it's a form of,
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: I don't want to use language too strongly. There's a
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 2: sort of a consent tweak in there. If you're lying,
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 2: if you're in a power position like me and saying,
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 2: let's see where it goes, but you just want to
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 2: fuck her. I think that's wrong. I think it's morally wrong.
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: I think you should say, this is what it is.
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: I want to party with you. Can you handle it?
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: And newsflash, most women are looking for that too. So
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: I had a wicked time for a year and then
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: one of those girls was Lindsay and that's just something
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 2: different happened. And we saw each other again and again
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: and again, and then boom, married.
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: I asked this question because I was having a conversation
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: with a friend of mine last night who's an entrepreneur.
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: And he's continually failed in marriage. And we were going
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: back and forward about the importance of meaningful relationships. And
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: I was making the case that they're incredibly important. I
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: sent him a TED Talk about, which shows that they
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: did a study on men over, I think, about 100 years.
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: and showed that the men that were in committed relationships
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: lived longer, had way better health, were way happier. They
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: studied men for 100 years. I think it's the only
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: 100-year study they've done of this type. And he was
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: basically saying, well, you know, women, they just don't understand
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: that I'm ambitious and stuff.
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 2: Is he wrong?
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: Is he right? How is he wrong?
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: It's statistically true. And also, people that believe in God
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 2: live longer. I'm not a God-er. I'm a total atheist
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 2: for you. I mean, that would be the curveball you
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: weren't expecting.
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, right?
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 2: What do you think about Jesus, Stephen? Now it's people
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 2: that believe in God live longer. So I think it's
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: not the case that faith keeps you alive or that
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 2: a relationship keeps you alive. As far as I understand
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 2: the science, there's a neuroprotective and cardiovascular benefit of doing
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 2: what we're doing today, just hanging out basically. And the
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 2: most reliable way to hang out and check in with
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 2: someone on a regular basis is to have someone you're
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 2: married to. Are you okay? Take your stress levels down.
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 2: Or even better, get together every Sunday with a bunch
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 2: of people who actually give a shit about whether you're skinned,
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: whether you've got cancer, whether your wife's left you, who
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 2: are going to look out for you. And sadly, in
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: our society, religion is the only thing that forces people
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 2: on a Friday, Saturday or Sunday to get together. If
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 2: you're going mosque every Friday, is it? If you go
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 2: mosque once a week and you're praying next to that
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 2: man next year, he's probably going to notice if you're down.
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 2: It's as simple as that. There's nothing magic about marriage.
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 2: But homo sapiens, I believe that our cortisol levels drop
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 2: and our dopamine levels rise when someone gives a shit
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 2: about us. It would make sense on an evolutionary level.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: If you look at the way chimps are, that when
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 2: one of them gets excluded from the group because they
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 2: have a fight and they're going, you know, you see
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: them on the documentary, they never live long. Because why
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 2: would you? Where is the evolutionary drive of your genes
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 2: to pass seeds and eggs on if you're the type
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: of person who can't bring the pack forward? So there
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 2: would be a strong evolutionary argument for single people to
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 2: die before attached people, for non-religious people to die before atheists.
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: So atheists like us have to make sure we really
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 2: have strong friendship groups. And I wish, wish, wish we
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 2: could get humanism off the ground. Every Sunday there's readings.
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 2: Your local Richard Dawkins is doing a science reading. We
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: all have a bit of tea and cake. Our kids
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 2: all play together and then we all go home. Wouldn't
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 2: that be amazing? Why doesn't it exist?
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: It's so true.
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 2: It would solve a lot of problems because if you
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 2: were depressed, I would pick up on it if I
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 2: was seeing you every week.
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: Everything you've said is backed by everything I've studied. I've
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: wrote a chapter in my book called The Journey Back
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: to Human, which describes this. It was inspired a lot
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: by Johanna Hari, who wrote Lost Connections.
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 2: Yes, I know.
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: And about getting back to our tribes. And when you
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: look at the way we're living our lives today, it's
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: just the antithesis of human.
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 2: And religion and relationship is the only way you can
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 2: keep those human elements in. So far as your friends
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 2: who keep having failed marriages, marriages fail for lots of
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 2: different reasons. So for men who keep getting into three-year
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 2: relationships and splitting up, if it's the same reason every time,
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: if the eye is roving and he just wants to
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 2: fuck other women, I mean, we need to speak about
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 2: this in real language that men use. Sorry if you
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: find it offensive, switch off. But a lot of the time,
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 2: a man gets two, three years in, the novelty wears off,
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 2: and he's like, what's it going to be like to
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 2: i want to fuck a different woman.
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: The so the cost as well the resistance or the
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: uncomfortable parts of the relationship remain yeah but the upside decreases.
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 2: If it's sex a lot for a lot of men
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 2: so i feel so sorry for girls that but why
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 2: did why did my man what was it i wasn't
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 2: doing it's hard to face the fact that some men
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: maybe 60 70 of men who split up with you
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: just want to shag someone else it's hard Let's just
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 2: put it on. So I'm sure many women, I don't
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 2: speak for women. I'm not being sexist. I'm just not
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 2: speaking for women. Get a woman on here. Ask her
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 2: why she splits up with someone every three years. So
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 2: you need to if you're a man that has those urges,
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 2: you need to find a woman that you can work
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 2: with that can keep you sexually excited and do whatever
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 2: you need to do. Just you've got to do it.
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 2: And you need a woman you can talk about those
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 2: things with. And a lot of it can be role-playing,
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 2: dirty talk, verbal fantasies, whatever. These are practical tips. A
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 2: lot of couples never cross these boundaries because they're too shy.
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 2: You split up with someone because you wanted to get
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 2: dressed up as a policeman and pretend she was someone
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 2: else and you were too cringed to tell her. But
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 2: that could have been the thing that converted it. It
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 2: could be as simple as going to a club separately,
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: dancing with other people, then going home together at the
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 2: end of the night. Have you tried that? Until you
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 2: have that conversation as a couple and admit you're having
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 2: those thoughts, you will split up or worse, cheat and
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 2: ruin that woman's life and ruin her faith in men.
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 2: I'm sure it's exactly the same if you're a gay
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 2: man as well. You'll ruin that boy you've split up
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: if you ruin his life. So far as why women
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 2: split up with men, who knows? And that's not for
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 2: me to say, but I do think a lot of
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 2: the times we're reluctant to admit it's such a basic
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 2: sexual reason. I suspect it is the case and we'll
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 2: make any old shit. I just felt bored. We've grown apart.
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 2: I suppose it will say any old shit just to
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 2: not admit. I like looking at girls on Instagram. I
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 2: want to go on holiday on my own.
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: Tough conversation to have, right? Because it's, it feels like
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: an attack on.
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 2: But you build it in as fun. Yeah. You'd be like,
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 2: it's three years in. I'm going to be straight with you.
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 2: I really, really love you. As long as you love,
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 2: if you don't love a girl, just tell her. You
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 2: definitely need to split up. But if you love her,
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 2: but have sexual urges, that is resolvable.
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: Guys, I think, quite often, hoochie, and this is a presumption,
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: I don't know the truth, they will take the path
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: of least resistance. So they look over at their partner
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: and they think, if I have this conversation, this is
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: going to blow up and she's going to scream in
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: my face. I think I can just go and grab
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: that apple without resistance. So they just reach out for
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: the apple because that conversation feels like more psychological discomfort than.
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 2: Don't go shagging other people to end your relationship.
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 1: People do that. They literally cheat to end the relationship.
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 2: We've all had moments I have in past relationships where
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 2: I've found myself in a bar contemplating it, talking to
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 2: a girl. And as soon as that happens, I know.
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 2: Either I don't love this girl or something's going wrong
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 2: in the bedroom. It's normally one of those things.
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: Can you love someone and cheat? hmm the type of
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: question you'd ask me probably yes yeah you think.
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 2: So probably in the same in the same way i
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 2: i can adore my daughter and would die for her
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 2: but would i go and work on a project for
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 2: a month with no phone contact at a pivotal development
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 2: point of her life yes i could because i can
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 2: compartmentalize i imagine women are exactly the same i in
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 2: fact i suspect a woman can be profoundly in love
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 2: with a man who's not giving her attention or making
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 2: her feel special or sexually exciting her. And she can
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 2: have sex with someone else, feel awful and still profoundly
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: love her husband.
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: One of the things you said is you said you, uh,
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 1: you're 45, 46 when in August, August baby, not long.
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: You look about 31. Like if you told me you
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: were 31, 32, I'd probably believe you. Yeah. Um, how
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: have you done that?
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 2: So first of all, it's got me into trouble because
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 2: what happened was when I started doing all this biohacking
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 2: and stuff like that.
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: What's biohacking?
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 2: It's where you're using the current science available to try
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 2: and hack your own biology to survive on less sleep
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 2: in a way that doesn't damage your health, for example.
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 2: I've not cracked that one. To not lose your hair,
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 2: working on that one. Or to slow down the aging process.
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 2: So not so that you can live to 120. Not that,
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 2: it's a common misconception, but that so you can have
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 2: the bit of your life between 30 and 70 in
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 2: a more sustained younger state. That's what you're trying to do.
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 2: You're trying to have better middle age years, not be
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 2: 120 year old. What you'd like to be is 120
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 2: year old that's like an 80 year old now. What
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 2: you're trying to do is stretch. Particularly, I did my
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 2: first gig at 28. So I quickly realized I need
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 2: to find some solutions here because I'm high energy Lee
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 2: Evans actor. I talk about my mom, my dad. I'm
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 2: a late bloomer. I would end up having a wife
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 2: much younger than me. I need to have the body
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 2: of a 30-year-old man quick. So I started studying. I mean,
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 2: I was 30 at the time. You know what I mean?
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 2: I need to keep it here. So the trouble it
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 2: got me into is when this stuff started to work,
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 2: dramatically work. I would sit down in interviews like this
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 2: with journalists and people will guess, how old are you, Russell?
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 2: And I would say, oh, guess, trying to get a compliment.
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 2: And they started to guess four years younger, five years younger,
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 2: then 10 years younger, then 15 years younger like you
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 2: have today. And I thought, this is showbiz. Fuck that.
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 2: I'm going to knock a few years off because the
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 2: one prejudice people are still allowed to have, not book
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 2: you because you're old. Can't wait till old life matters
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 2: starts because I'm going to be fucking behind. No, but seriously,
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 2: why is it okay to make redundant and underpay and
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 2: exclude people based on their chronological age but that prejudice
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 2: alive and well um so i i thought i lied
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 2: i lied my ass off and of course i was
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 2: really unsophisticated about it i was like celebrating my real
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 2: birthday with comedians and friends and then lying to the
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 2: observer or the mirror how much did you lie by
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 2: five years oh not bad i forgive you um but
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 2: so that was a story that was a tabloid story
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 2: in two newspapers and i and a lot of jokes
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 2: were made on tv a comedy award ceremony so i
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 2: was quite mocked for it so as a comedian eminem
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 2: style i took that wrote a show about it called
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 2: right man wrong age took it on tour owned it
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 2: no one said a word since and now i talk
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 2: about it all the time i think it's quite funny
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 2: really It's quite human. I mean, what the fuck? I
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 2: don't know, whatever the thing is in your profession, maybe.
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: It's age as well. It's been age for me. When
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 1: I was 18, everyone wrote about me because I'd made
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: £ 100 when I was 18. And I realised that in
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 1: my industry, your age and the achievement are the most
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 1: important thing. So if I was 18 and I'd made £ 100,
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 1: they had me on BBC. This 18-year-old's made £ 100. And
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 1: I realised that when I get to 25, I actually
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 1: need to have made about £ 100 million for them to
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: consider me the same way.
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 1: So I'm like super slow to change my birthday every year.
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, 27. I'm like, I need to be
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 1: a billionaire.
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right. So, but from a business sense, it might
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 2: be exaggerating turnover to seek investment than revealing real turnover afterwards.
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 2: But it's, hey, okay, we were all billionaires anyway, that
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 2: type of thing. So I was exaggerating turnover to attract investment.
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 2: But I didn't realize it was a massive issue because
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 2: people come to stand up comedians for authenticity and realness,
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 2: particularly my type of stand up. So anyway, I owned that.
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 2: chucked it back, that's all good. How I've done it
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 2: is just, there's loads of places you can go to.
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 2: I started with Dave Asprey and Bulletproof and all of
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 2: those things, although I do think drinking butter is way
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 2: over the top, but it's sort of moving towards a
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 2: lower carb, not keto, nothing extreme. I don't believe in
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 2: anything extreme that's hard to stick to, but certainly I
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 2: don't believe we're supposed to eat white bread and cereal
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 2: and shit like that. Working with what we build to
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 2: do would be the most basic way without spending money.
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 2: Anyone that's watching this can start. We woke up in
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 2: the Savannah this morning, you and I. It's time to
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 2: go hunting. There ain't going to be food there. We
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 2: probably would have eaten at 2 p.m. No doubt about it.
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 2: Human beings are built to have anywhere between 16-hour to
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 2: two-day fasting gaps. No doubt about it. And sure enough,
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 2: now we look at this on a cellular level, we
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 2: can see what happens. So I ate at... Last night
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 2: I worked very late, so I didn't eat till nearly
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 2: 11 p.m. By now, as I'm speaking to you, not
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 2: only do I have an intense fucking focused high from
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 2: only having had coffee and water, which has got to
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 2: be a good thing, there's autophagy going on in my cells.
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 2: So the cells are eating up their own bits of
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 2: dead protein and shit just out of sheer desperation for
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 2: something to eat. That's the first thing that happens. Apoptosis
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 2: is the proper name for it. The cells, the shit
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 2: ones just die and burn off like the crust at
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 2: the edge. If you pour food on the edge of
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 2: that situation, as far as I understand the science, I'm
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 2: sure people will refine what I'm saying. I'm trying to
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 2: distill what I've learned for the layman. You keep all
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 2: that crap in. So unfortunately, fasting is brilliant. I don't
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 2: buy into many fads, but the science here, you can
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 2: see under a microscope. So intermittent fasting and eating lower
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 2: carb is something anyone can do. Someone on 10 grand
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 2: a year can do that tomorrow. So eat more leafy
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 2: green vegetables.
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: I think if you're on 10 granny, you are probably.
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. But eat more leafy green vegetables. Breakfast is,
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 2: I think the easiest one to skip because you produce
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 2: a hormone in the night that suppresses appetite anyway. Otherwise
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 2: you'd wake up hungry all night. If you are waking
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 2: up hungry, your diet's fucked, change it. So you don't,
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 2: I won't wake up hungry. So we're brought up to
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 2: wake up not hungry and eat a bowl of cocoa pops.
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 2: And then boom, the insulin goes up. Insulin, you don't
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 2: want your insulin high. And the only way to do
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 2: that is sugar and carbohydrate. So lower your carbohydrate, 100,
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 2: 120 gram net a day. Anyone can do that. Still rice.
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 2: If you like bread, eat bread, but eat wholemeal bread.
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 2: That's the two most basic things you can do now.
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 2: So far as the more intense chemicals, I can tell
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 2: you what I'm on. I would take phytacin in the morning,
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 2: which is a synolytic activator, something that stops cell decrease
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 2: and senescence, like aging in cells. Once a week, I
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 2: will probably also take another senolytic activator. Chloroquine is called.
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 2: I take PQQ every morning. That's the little pink one.
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 2: I do take NMN, which is really expensive. But the
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 2: life force in the cells that keep us going is
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 2: called NADS, N-A-D. And that's what causes aging. Aging is
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 2: not inevitable. It's your cells. We're a combination of digital
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 2: and analog information. So every time you rewrite a cell,
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 2: it gets rewritten a little bit less well. And then
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 2: You get wrinkles and gray hair and you start forgetting
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 2: and you die. So if you can help the cells
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 2: be more accurate in writing, you can stay younger, not
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 2: just in how you look, but generally. So I do
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 2: take NMN every day. That's the big one. And that
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: is a precursor to creating NAD in the body. And
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 2: I mean, I have no Botox. I have no filler
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 2: in my face. I do use stuff from boots and
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 2: moisturizer and I do go for like a posh facial
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 2: now and again. There's nothing artificial in my skin.
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 1: This is a great moment to cut to my podcast sponsor, NMN.
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 2: Well, NMN's the drug. Loads of people make it.
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 2: If you're looking for a good one in the UK,
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 2: go on Amazon. I think it's Doublewood. He's good. It's
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 2: expensive though, man. You're looking at six pounds a day
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 2: for a sup.
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: Expensive, yeah.
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 2: Like six pounds a day. But if you think, if
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 2: you're spending, if you're lucky enough to be spending that
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 2: on a coffee, take a flask. Buy NMN instead. I
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 2: bought my own coffee today. So what I will do is,
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 2: my pet hate is watching a video like this, listening
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 2: to podcasts like this, and people not listing grams and
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 2: brands afterwards. And all the top guys, David Sinclair's the
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 2: guy you want to read, by the way. If you
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 2: read one book, it will change your life. It's Why
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 2: We Age and Why We Don't Have To, David Sinclair.
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 2: He does all the science, but he always refuses to
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 2: give like geeky levels of endorsement on what I take
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 2: because his inbox always crashes. So what I will do
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 2: is I will, i will send you exactly what i
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 2: take on a daily basis you need to check with
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 2: your physician and you need to make sure everything's right
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 2: for you obviously but nmn is definitely the one that
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 2: encourages nad production and helps the cells copy themselves and
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 2: slow down aging resveratrol very very very important so i
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 2: take a 750 milligrams of nmm and i take a
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 2: gram of resveratrol every morning Don't go on Amazon and
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 2: buy resveratrol, the brown stuff. You need trans resveratrol, the
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 2: ultra-refined stuff. You need a gram of it a day.
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 2: VitaFair is a good brand.
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 1: What about hair?
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 2: Hair, they've still not.
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 1: It's starting to get greys.
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they've still not solved why we go grey. Because
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 2: baldness is a genetic program that's running, like your height,
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 2: it's harder to hack. It's to do with the testosterone hormone, DHT,
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 2: that kicks in. DHT that kicks in. Um, so your
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 2: body after a while and the way it synthesizes testosterone
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 2: in the scalp causes the follicles to die and fall off.
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 2: The only way to do that is to block DHT.
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 2: But if you're a man, it's a two, it's a
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 2: double edged sword because if you start messing with your testosterone,
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 2: you can lower your sex drive, lower your aggression. I
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 2: need lots of aggression in what I do when I
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 2: go on stage and for exercise and things. So I
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 2: don't take things like, um, finasteride, which we know works. That's,
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 2: I'd rather be Jason Statham, like bald and horny, than
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 2: have loads of hair and a eunuch. That said, I
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 2: am losing my hair at the crown. I have been
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 2: for about two years. The reason you can't see it
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 2: today as much as you could two years ago, I
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 2: am using a derma roller. You can buy these cheaply
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 2: on Amazon. Make sure you buy one with individual titanium spikes.
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 2: If it's boasting hundreds of titanium spikes, it's a shite one.
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 2: It means they've got a rolled out bit of titanium.
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 2: You want one, if it's plastic, you'll be about 190,
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 2: 200 spikes titanium, and you'll be able to see each
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 2: individual spike, 0.5 millimeter once a day, roll, roll, roll.
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 2: It's a little bit painful, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 2: at the temples here. And then you would put on
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 2: minoxidil 15% ideally. Duogen is a good one. Again, very expensive.
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 2: You're looking at 30, 40 quid a month. Um, But
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 2: it works.
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 1: What does it do?
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 2: You start to get, first of all, little puby gray hairs.
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 2: And it just holds the wolf. So you're not bald.
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 2: You don't have like 17-year-old hair. As you can see,
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 2: I am not bald. And that's all I do. The
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 2: roller is about a tenner. The Minoxidil is expensive, but
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 2: you can get it down to about £ 30 a month,
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 2: but don't go below 15%. And if you really want
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 2: to do belt and braces, how you shampoo is important.
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 2: Get a really good caffeine shampoo like Alpacin. And you
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 2: want a brush like, it's like a round, really cheap
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 2: round plastic brush with the plastic bristles like boys would
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 2: have gelled their hair with back in the day. One
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 2: of those. And in the shower, really scrub that shampoo
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 2: in and leave it for five minutes. So if you
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 2: shave or you brush your teeth, go and have your,
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 2: toothbrush and your shave while the foam's there and then
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 2: shower it out.
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 1: How did you get into all of this? Was it
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 1: that book?
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 2: No, no, no. That's, I've just researched myself the optimal
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 2: methods for hair regrowth. But for biohacking, I've used David Perlmutter,
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 2: the doctor, cardiovascular doctor about heart health and cholesterol and
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 2: trying to learn the safety of going higher fat. I
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 2: use Dave Asprey for a lot of the supplements, your
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 2: PQQ and things like that. And on all the knowledge
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 2: about high fat and biohacking and sleep and all that.
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 2: And I use David Sinclair for the real, real hardcore
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 2: science on life extension. it's a brilliant book it's just
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 2: about accessible for the main reader but if you get
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 2: into it you love it there's loads of stuff in
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 2: there i don't do like the cold showers and things
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 2: like that.
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 1: Cold showers tell me about that i've uh i've heard
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 1: about this but i just don't have the guts every
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 1: day it just feels like it'll ruin.
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 2: My day the most controversial thing about what i've said
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 2: is I'm not recommending people go low carb. I'm just
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 2: saying it's what I do. You might come from Australasia
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 2: and you might have different genetics that mean if you
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 2: eat a high fat diet, it's incredibly dangerous. Check what
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 2: your doctor recommends. Go and do your own research. Go
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 2: to Atlas Biomed where you can get your own biome
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 2: sequence by sending a bit of poo through the post.
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 2: It's fascinating. And they send back your whole internal microbiome.
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 2: Get your cholesterol tested regularly. three months in, six months in,
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 2: see what it's doing. My cholesterol, of course, is off
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 2: the fucking charts, but so is my HDL cholesterol, meaning
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 2: my cholesterol ratio is good. Do I have plaques in
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 2: my arteries? Yes, I do. I've run a CT scan.
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 2: So you could need to take your own call on that.
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 2: I mean, if you're a student and you get hit
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 2: by a car and you're 18 years old and we
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 2: do an autopsy, you will have plaque in your arteries.
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 2: Babies have plaque in their arteries. We all have plaque
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 2: in our arteries. I remain to be convinced that the
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 2: fact I have cholesterol running around my blood actually is
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 2: the thing that makes the plaque cholesterol that I'm in
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 2: a minority. I'm not medically trained. I could be talking
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 2: shit and I could be in a coffin when I'm 60,
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 2: but I'm fascinated by it. I'm a layman. I'm on
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 2: a journey. You do your own reading. The NHS recommendation
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 2: certainly isn't to eat high fat, but I just don't
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 2: buy the science. It stinks to me. So, and plus
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 2: I just, I'm going on how I feel.
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 1: Sure, yeah. It's probably the most important way. Your podcast,
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 1: you have a podcast which talks a lot about cancel culture.
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 1: What's going on in our society at the moment in
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 1: terms of cancel culture? It seems to be getting much more,
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 1: maybe because of algorithms and we're separate, you know, we're
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 1: creating these echo chambers and we're defining, you know, this
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 1: side is left and this is right and there's nothing
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 1: in the middle. But what's going on within society? And
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 1: I guess the question I'm going to come to eventually
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 1: is how do we fix it and can we fix it?
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 1: Or are we fucked?
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 2: I think we're probably a little bit fucked for the
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 2: time being because after loads of historic injustice and inequality
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 2: and I hate the word woke. I almost don't want
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 2: to be woke because it's such a cunty word. I
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 2: just think waking up to things you've not seen before.
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 2: The word woke has become politicized, so I reject it
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 2: as a term. But we need to swing the barometer
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 2: a little bit this way. until everyone's being represented properly
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 2: then it will settle probably in our children's generation it
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 2: will settle so stop panicking gary dave lee and everyone
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 2: with a union jack profile it will it will settle
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 2: um what i find frustrating and toxic is we're living
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 2: in a culture where you can be cancelled overnight and
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 2: middleton cancelled overnight sharon osborne cancelled overnight It doesn't matter
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 2: who you are, what your background is, what colour, what
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 2: gender you are, you are at risk. No one is safe.
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 2: Trust me.
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 1: Especially white men.
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 2: Well, anyone really. I remember, I don't even know if
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 2: I want to put it back out there, but I
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 2: know Reggie Yates a bit and he said something about
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 2: Jewish music producers.
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I remember, yeah.
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 2: Just about survived that. So I don't think anyone, I
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 2: think it's probably worse if you're of colour because the
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 2: right will be ready. They'll be fucking ready. See? Fucking see?
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 2: So I would actually say no. I would say, I
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 2: think everyone's at risk from this. It's a rabid, oh,
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 2: we got one of them, particularly a lefty, and cancelled them.
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 2: How can we live in a culture of instant, pardon, black,
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 2: I shouldn't say black and white after what I just said,
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 2: but instant black and white cancelling, where you can wake
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 2: up in the morning and be gone, that at the
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 2: same time exists alongside, how dare you use a label?
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 2: Nothing has meaning. We're in a postmodern world of amorphous fog.
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 2: where we don't even have pronouns. Nothing's real. History's not real.
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 2: The things you've learned aren't real. Literature isn't literature. Nothing
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 2: has a label. No, you're cancelled, and I'm sure.
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 1: What?
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 2: Well, which is it? Are we in a postmodern, nothing
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 2: means anything, everything's up for grabs, shifting meaning, diverse culture,
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 2: which sounds quite exciting to me as a comedian, or
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 2: are we in a Nazi Germany executed the next morning?
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 2: Both of those two together, head fuck.
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 1: I have this tweet saved in my drafts on Twitter
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 1: and it says, and I didn't tweet it because I
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 1: didn't have the nuts, right? Because I was being, I
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 1: was like low-key being canceled for something I said at
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 1: the time. So I thought I'll just stagger this one out.
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 1: But it says the left will allow you to be
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 1: non-binary in everything but your opinion. Right. And it's kind
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 1: of what you're saying there. It's like, we've got to
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 1: the point where we understand things aren't binary, right? In
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 1: sexuality and other points. But my opinion has to be,
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 1: like if the stance I take on Black Lives Matter
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 1: doesn't perfectly, I don't look like I'm wearing, like, as
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 1: I said in the last podcast with Anne, the football
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 1: kit shirt. shoes, socks, shirt, then I am definitely of
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 1: the right and I should be treated as such. And
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 1: I had it quite recently with the Sarah Everett tragedy
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 1: because I made the point that the narrative, and this
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 1: is this key sentence that I just, social media just
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 1: didn't allow me to express, which narrative is most helpful
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 1: and productive in creating the shift we need to see
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 1: in male behavior? Which narrative? Is it the narrative that,
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 1: which I saw a lot of, which is all men,
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 1: all men are the problem? Is that the narrative which
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 1: is most helpful and productive? And so the conversation I
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 1: was trying to have is.
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 2: It's a real politic, what works in the real world.
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not saying there's not a fucking problem with
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 1: men or they're not pigs or there's not like the
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 1: patriarchy or there's not massage. The stats say that. I'm
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 1: not the stats. The stats say 97% of young women
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 1: have experienced some form of sexual abuse or harassment. My
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 1: point is about which narrative is most productive and helpful.
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 2: You're a businessman. You're like, which model can we employ
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 2: to get the best profit?
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because I reflect. When Tommy Robinson ran around saying, okay,
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 1: it's not all Muslims, but it's always Muslims that are
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 1: blowing up buildings, whatever, we would run him out of
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 1: town because that's a deeply toxic way to think, right?
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 1: And it's the same with black people. We get locked
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 1: up more. So asserting that You know, it's not all
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 1: black people, but it's some black people. Therefore, the fear
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 1: is all black people. The way that I got to
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 1: my logic, I was like, I have two nieces who
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 1: are going to go into the world who I love dearly.
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 1: What would I say to them? They're four years old
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 1: and three years old. What advice would I say to
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 1: them to help them, A, guard against predatory male behavior,
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 1: but also to help them in their life be productive
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 1: and to work with 50% of the population? It definitely
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 1: wouldn't be, Alessi, right? Sit down. You're going to have
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 1: to fear all men. that some of them, the threat, Alessi,
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 1: is my niece, is all men. That's not for me,
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 1: wouldn't be a, imagine the damage I would do to
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 1: my niece.
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 2: I mean, I don't want to say you put it brilliantly.
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 1: I got finished off. I got finished so badly on Instagram.
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 1: I was fucking, they finished me.
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 2: It's because part of the problem is having a discussion
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 2: like this when a girl has just died. If you
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 2: and I have this at a university in two years time,
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 2: it's quite an interesting, it's a very interesting conversation that
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 2: needs to be had. So I did do a stand-up
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 2: response to it. I did a one-minute thing, but I
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 2: waited 10 days. Smart. I waited 10 days, and then
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 2: I did a rant about why do we teach sex
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 2: education so late? Why do we teach consent so late?
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 2: And I just made fun of the British education system
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 2: not speaking to teenagers about sex enough, because I think
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 2: that's what the issue is. We don't teach all boys,
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 2: whether they're predatory boys or not, men aren't taught about
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 2: sex early enough. From angels... to sex offenders, they should
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 2: be taught in primary school.
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 1: Not from porn.
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 2: No, exactly. That's where the problem is. But yeah, so
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 2: I think sometimes having, trying to have a, I do
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 2: actually disagree slightly with one of the things you said
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 2: right at the top, which was when you said, oh,
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 2: I need to have a binary opinion, but not have
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 2: a binary sexuality. Because I do think, no, you can
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 2: have a non-binary opinion. We could be talking about Jane
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 2: Austen and literature. And we can say, yeah, but I
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 2: can't think of a subject you and I can have
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 2: a conversation on where fashionable postmodernism, nothing means anything, doesn't apply.
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 1: On a major issue, Black Lives Matter.
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we could talk about, now we're not going to
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 2: say whether Black Lives Matter or not, but we could
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 2: have a discussion about does race exist? On a genetic level,
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 2: we've proved that it doesn't. So what is race? We
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 2: could chat and everyone could leave the lecture going, I
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 2: don't know what to think.
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 1: In a lecture or face to face.
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 2: Or we could broadcast it now. Talk about race.
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 1: 100%.
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 2: Talk about, does race exist?
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 1: And this is why I love podcasts, because you get
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 1: context and nuance. 180 characters in the middle of the
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 1: Black Lives Matter. Russell, why haven't you posted the black tile?
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 1: I know. You can't go, well, does race exist? People
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 1: will go, racist! Silence is violence.
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 2: But you could still, but what I mean is, we
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 2: can be postmodern, fluffy, and not say anything, almost about anything,
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 2: but we still be cancelled at the same time. Now,
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 2: those two things are both quite extreme. Yeah. I mean,
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 2: they're opposites. And that can close down debate and hamstrung people.
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 2: I like my offensive people where I can hear them.
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 2: I don't like them on WhatsApp groups hidden. I was
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 2: never against Nick Griffin of the BNP going on Question Time.
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 2: I don't mind putting that out there. A lot of
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 2: people say, you put him on there, you legitimize his views.
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 2: What actually happened? He looked like a total cock and
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 2: now he's disappeared. Have the courage to know, I do
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 2: think there is good and bad. I don't think right-wing
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 2: people are bad and left-wing people are good. In fact,
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 2: I think it's just as many cocks across the spectrum.
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 2: I do think violence and hatred is bad, full stop. Sorry,
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 2: I do. It's a moral, absolute moral category. I would
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 2: rather see the people who think it have their arguments exposed.
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 2: The biggest experiment we've ever seen of that is Donald Trump.
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 2: It fucking just fell apart because most people saw he
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 2: was a cock, regardless of what he'll tell you. You
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 2: probably won't see someone like him for a long while now.
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 1: You're right. That sort of right-wing sentiment arose around the
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 1: world at the same time, like Bolsonaro, even here in Europe,
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 1: all at the same time. And it almost feels like
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 1: now it's falling apart. A little bit away.
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 2: I don't like chastity belts and gagging and things. And
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 2: when they were like, Donald Trump's coming, but we won't
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 2: give him a state visit. Nonsense. I want red carpet.
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 2: I want streets lined. And let him hear what we think.
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 2: Let him see the way British people show they're unhappy.
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 2: Don't sort of all mutter into your tea cozies and
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 2: send memes like in Shoreditch. Fucking let's go out there. Let's, let's, let's, let's,
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 2: where's our pranksters? Where's Simon Brodkin doing a stunt on him?
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 2: You know, that, Have the courage of your arguments. The
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 2: good is always winning films and they will win on
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 2: the earth. I believe that. I'm an optimist.
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 1: Should anybody be cancelled, deplatformed, chucked off, immediately thrown out?
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 2: Not in haste. That's why I make Evil Genius. It's
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 2: a slow weighing up over the hour. We take the
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 2: good and the bad and we have an intellectual discussion
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 2: and it's very tongue-in-cheek and funny, but it's a long
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 2: discussion about the people's merits. It's interesting as well, the
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 2: elitism of it as well. Why are Picasso's paintings still hanging?
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 1: Why?
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 2: The guy was a grade A nonce and misogynist. Why
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 2: are his paintings still up? Because it's so lofty and important.
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 2: We can't quite bring ourselves to cancel it. I mean,
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 2: I don't know if, do we go here? I mean,
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 2: I don't know what I think of that Michael Jackson
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 2: documentary anyway, but it's almost like Michael Jackson's so powerful
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 2: and musically important that we dare not go there. So
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 2: there comes to a stage where we're not willing, you know,
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 2: someone sort of cancel proof. I mean, if you want
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 2: to be really controversial, look at the old Testament. He
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 2: did some vile fucking things, stoning people, like flooding people
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 2: with fire, burning gays. How has he not been canceled?
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 2: Old school God. Too powerful.
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 1: That's interesting. I've never actually considered that. Some people are too.
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 1: Michael Jackson's a very good example because.
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 2: I don't want to give up Michael Jackson. I've only
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 2: just got Overbump and Grind being deleted.
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 1: Do you know what's funny? Because I was actually thinking
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 1: about Michael Jackson this week because I just absolutely adore
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 1: the art. And the thought of having to separate the
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 1: artist from the art and that the artist could have
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 1: been such a horrible predator... it really is something that helps,
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 1: you know.
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 2: The useful rule of thumb I've found is the closer
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 2: the art is to the predation and the nature of
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 2: the predation, the more problematic it is. So I find
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 2: Picasso very problematic because everything I'm looking at in the
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 2: studio is in a gallery is possibly a teenage girl's body.
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 2: I find Michael Jackson problematic because when he's talking about
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 2: love and I want to be close to you and
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 2: I want to touch this and that, what's he singing about?
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 2: What am I dancing to?
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 2: If, someone writes beautiful romantic novels, but they like harming
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 2: animals in private, less problematic. Because when I'm reading the novel,
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 2: I'm not absorbing animal harm. Am I absorbing paedophilia? Who's
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 2: R Kelly singing about? Bumpergrime with whom? An underage, do
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 2: you see what I mean?
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 1: So what's next for you? What are you working on?
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 1: What's the next chapter of your life all about as
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 1: far as you're concerned?
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 2: Well, as well as just doing TV all the time,
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 2: whoring it up on any show that will have me,
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 2: which I've been doing since I started, It's about the
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 2: theatre's reopening. For now, outdoor socially distanced performance. So I'll
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 2: be finding as many spaces where I can put a
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 2: marquee over, vent it at the side, just to get
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 2: back out there and stay sharp. I am working on
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 2: a novel. I always am. I'm working on a sitcom.
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 2: I always am. And I'm developing formats. I always am.
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 2: I'm always hustling, always trying. I'm yet to get that
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 2: format away where I own it and it's my IP.
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 2: I have with Evil Genius. I have made a TV
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 2: pilot of that with BBC Studios. I would love to
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 2: sell that because I think that would work globally as
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 2: a format.
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 1: Very timely as well.
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 2: I have got my eye on things like that as well.
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 2: But mostly it's how can I get in front of
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 2: people and make them laugh because that's what I want
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 2: to do.
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 1: Well, you certainly are very good at that. It's a
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 1: talent that you have that I'm like positively jealous of,
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 1: like just your natural ability to make people laugh. feel
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 1: comfortable and to laugh it's a real.
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 2: I feel the same with you starting a multi-million pound business.
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 1: I wish I had that I feel like I would
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 1: have been more successful if I had that I'll.
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 2: Trade you for one year and we both keep revenue.
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 1: No no no deal thank you for coming today no
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 1: thank you so much it's been a real pleasure and
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 1: I don't think people realize how much of a fucking
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 1: intellectual you are my first clue was all those books
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 1: you had behind you on your zoom background when I
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 1: did your podcast but.
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 2: I dug my way out the ghetto with books like that.
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 1: You're so fucking smart and i don't think people realize
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 1: that i think they think you're a comedian you're much
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 1: more than a comedian you're fucking genius at the same
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 1: time it.
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 2: Doesn't pay to look too smart when you're a comic
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 2: true i love radio four but i want to be
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 2: on itv one as well no disrespect.
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 1: Listen thank you so much for your time today and
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 1: um people people know where they can find you but
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 1: your podcast evil geniuses is immense and it's very timely
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 1: and needed in our society so thank you for doing that.
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 2: And i am trying to squeeze out stand up on
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 2: channel four during the day so if you're ever at
• 1:44:09
  Speaker 2: home or you've got a day off steph's packed lunch
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 2: twice a week i'm on there doing that i never
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 2: thought i'd do days i'm telling you i fucking i
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 2: love it and i do stand up at 1 p.m the.
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 1: World needs that too right now yeah thank you so
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 1: much russell appreciate you thank you
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 2: Thank you.