Latest / The Trauma Therapist / Guest Host Susanne Babbel interviews Maggie Cline - Trauma Through a Child's Eyes

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Guest Host Susanne Babbel interviews Maggie Cline - Trauma Through a Child's Eyes · The Trauma Therapist

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the special guest host series of The Trauma
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Speaker 1: Therapist Podcast, where I'm going to be handing over the
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Speaker 1: mic to some incredible guest hosts. In each episode, you'll
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Speaker 1: hear fresh perspectives and unique insights to inform and inspire
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Speaker 1: you in all the while keeping the heart of this
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Speaker 1: podcast alive. So sit back and enjoy.
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Speaker 2: All right, Welcome to the Trauma Podcast. Trauma Therapist Podcast
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Speaker 2: with a guy Macpheerson, and I'm your co host. I'm
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Speaker 2: your guest host. I mean today, it's Zanna Babbitt and
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Speaker 2: I'm a trauma therapist in private practice in San Francisco
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Speaker 2: and the author of a self help book called Heal
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Speaker 2: the Body, Heal the Mind. And I'm so excited to
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Speaker 2: be here today with Maggie Klein, who is a Somatic
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Speaker 2: Experience International faculty member and author of three very powerful
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Speaker 2: books on healing trauma and especially in children. So welcome,
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Speaker 2: it's so nice to see you today. And today Meggie
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Speaker 2: and I will explore how trauma lives in the bodies
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Speaker 2: of children, and how grief manifests in ways we may
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Speaker 2: not expect, and what it truly means to support young
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Speaker 2: ones through loss, and we'll also discuss practical ways how parents, caregivers,
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Speaker 2: and therapists can help children process grief in a way
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Speaker 2: that fosters resilience and healing. Maggie, I'm so grateful to
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Speaker 2: have you here today and i want to ask you
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Speaker 2: the first question in your work.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you first of all for having me so,
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Speaker 3: because this is my passion, is to help parents, therapists
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Speaker 3: and teachers, educators and anybody grandparents who cares about kids,
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Speaker 3: to help them to be able to explore inside what's
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Speaker 3: going on and to be able to release the trauma
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Speaker 3: from their bodies.
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Speaker 2: So I'm thrilled, yes, and yeah, thank you for you
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Speaker 2: giving me that opportunity to give to interview you today.
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Speaker 2: In your work, how do you describe grief and how
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Speaker 2: do children experience grief especially and the wake of all
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Speaker 2: these natural disasters that we have. I thought that might
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Speaker 2: be a good example of how children might feel grief
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Speaker 2: and loss.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a big question, but I'm going to simplify
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Speaker 3: it because of the shortness of our time, and is
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Speaker 3: all people who have shock because of something that happens
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Speaker 3: that's out of the blue. This is children and adults.
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Speaker 3: They have shock and grief grief comes from the loss.
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Speaker 3: Shock comes from the fact that it was unexpected and
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Speaker 3: so massive that it overwhelmed their nervous system, and they're
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Speaker 3: both treated differently. The most therapists are very and even
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Speaker 3: parents are very familiar with emotion, but most most people
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Speaker 3: are not familiar with the physiology of trauma, which which
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Speaker 3: can only be healed by working with sensations from the
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Speaker 3: physical sensations which are also feelings, and children very often
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Speaker 3: manifest through tummy aches, headaches, and especially fatigue because their
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Speaker 3: nervous system gets shut down, especially the younger ones, because
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Speaker 3: the younger they are, the less mobility and facility and
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Speaker 3: resources they have to protect themselves, so they're dependent on
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Speaker 3: their parents. The more dependent they are on their parents,
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Speaker 3: the more their bodies go into shock. And very often
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Speaker 3: people don't even realize it because they don't cry.
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Speaker 2: Oh, they don't see. What should we look out for
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Speaker 2: is then in a child to you said they're really tired,
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Speaker 2: Will they take more naps or will they be just
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Speaker 2: be very lethargic or what does that look like?
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Speaker 3: They might not that you'll notice their routine. I mean,
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Speaker 3: especially if with something like the Palisades and the fire
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Speaker 3: from up an Altadena that what do they call that?
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Speaker 3: And the other fires where the homes are destroyed. It's
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Speaker 3: very complex. But one of the things that's really important
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Speaker 3: for your listeners to know is that children pick up
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Speaker 3: the cues from their parents and the people that are
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Speaker 3: around them, the first responders, their grandparents, whoever, when they
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Speaker 3: go into shelter. So if the parents we're also in
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Speaker 3: the disaster, we need outside people to come in and
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Speaker 3: to help the parents and the adults first to be
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Speaker 3: able to move through their shock, which sometimes means trembling
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Speaker 3: and shaking, and very often it means tears will come,
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Speaker 3: which you're natural, and as the tears flow, it starts
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Speaker 3: to relieve the trauma. And when it relieves the trauma,
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Speaker 3: you'll notice a breath, like a really spontaneous breath that comes,
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Speaker 3: and it's like you can tell in the child, oh,
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Speaker 3: or the adult if you're working with the adult. Oh,
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Speaker 3: a cycle of completion just happened. As this is called
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Speaker 3: first aid. Yeah, once the shock is relieved, it's easier
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Speaker 3: than to be able to work with the grieving process,
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Speaker 3: which is longer. The shock can be worked through very easily.
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Speaker 3: I mean, it doesn't it sounds simplistic, but Peter Levine
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Speaker 3: taught me so much about how it gets lodged, and
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Speaker 3: there's a stuckness and a numbness. So for kids, they
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Speaker 3: may be pale, they may not be interested in their
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Speaker 3: normal routine, they might not want to play games. Depending
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Speaker 3: on the age of the child, they could show it
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Speaker 3: as irritability. They might start fighting with siblings where they
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Speaker 3: normally don't fight that aggressively, they'll show more aggressive aggression,
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Speaker 3: especially like I said, if their harm wrongs are coming
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Speaker 3: in the younger children, but also the older ones and
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Speaker 3: the adults can end up feeling nauseated or feeling like
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Speaker 3: they have a flu coming on or an illness, when
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Speaker 3: it's really just a shock causing their system to start
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Speaker 3: to shut down. So let's say I don't want to
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Speaker 3: play a game. I don't want to do that.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I may.
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Speaker 3: Not be able to eat. They go into such a shock.
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Speaker 3: I mean, this wasn't even a disaster, it was actually
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Speaker 3: a good thing. I worked with a four year old
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Speaker 3: who whose parents had bought a house and she was
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Speaker 3: used to being living with the grandmother, and when they
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Speaker 3: moved into the new house, she refused to eat because
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Speaker 3: she was very bonded with her grandma, and nobody knew why,
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Speaker 3: and the pediatricians said, there's no reason, no medical reason.
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Speaker 3: So the little girl came to me and one of
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Speaker 3: the things I had that the dad. I had her
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Speaker 3: sit on her dad's lap because she was barely four,
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Speaker 3: and I had a little Teddy Bear, and I said,
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Speaker 3: I showed the bear. I showed her what happens to
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Speaker 3: Teddy Bear's stomach when there's a move to a new house.
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Speaker 3: And I had I put my hand on Teddy Bear's
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Speaker 3: stomach and then encouraged her to do that. And then
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Speaker 3: I said, how about your stomach? You know, how is
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Speaker 3: your stomach? And she just made a little groaning sound.
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Speaker 3: I said, would you like your daddy to put to
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Speaker 3: put his hand on your tummy? And then I explained
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Speaker 3: to the parent that they need to soften their hand
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Speaker 3: to allow warmth to come in so that the child
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Speaker 3: is feeling their warmth and love and care and not
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Speaker 3: feeling their stress from not knowing what's wrong with their child.
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Speaker 3: I said, your child's gonna be okay. So the reassuring
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Speaker 3: words are really important. And then I had the dad
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Speaker 3: put his hand on his daughter's little tummy and sure
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Speaker 3: enough he could feel. He had no training. He was
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Speaker 3: a has met a has met person who works with
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Speaker 3: toxic materials that wears a suit, just the regular old guy,
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Speaker 3: not old, but a regular worker and laborer. And he
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Speaker 3: put his hand on the tummy. He goes, oh, it's
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Speaker 3: so tight in there. And so I had the little
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Speaker 3: girl continued to work on Teddy Bear's tummy while the
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Speaker 3: dad was wor just working. By working, I mean just
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Speaker 3: relaxing his hand and just keeping it there and letting
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Speaker 3: the girl know she can feel where her dad's hand
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Speaker 3: is and to describe does it feel warm or cool?
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Speaker 3: You know what happens under dad's hand as he holds
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Speaker 3: you there in that spot that hurts?
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Speaker 2: Can I ask you a question about that? When when
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Speaker 2: you do that? I was trained by We talked about this.
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Speaker 2: I was trained by Peter Levine through the training too.
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Speaker 2: Except by the way, for the listener, it's a long training.
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Speaker 2: It can take like three years.
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Speaker 3: Or so, right, yeah, exactly, Yes, it's not.
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Speaker 2: Just a a like one weeknd training. It sounds like
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Speaker 2: you said, it sounds simplistic, but it isn't. But I
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Speaker 2: think what you're doing is when a child and anyone
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Speaker 2: goes into shock, the nervous system response with fight, flight,
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Speaker 2: freeze and how and you then want to work with
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Speaker 2: the nervous system to calm it down and get out
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Speaker 2: of that survival mode. And how you do that is
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Speaker 2: by sensations, because the nervous system has only the language
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Speaker 2: of sensations, it doesn't have the language of words, So
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Speaker 2: you're combined. Is that what you're doing, you are.
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Speaker 3: That's exactly what I'm doing, is working with the physiology
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Speaker 3: of the shop because we didn't know now, we didn't
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Speaker 3: work with the grief yet. The grief is another exactly,
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Speaker 3: but as far as you address the shock sensations, what
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Speaker 3: is it feel like? And with young children especially nurturing
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Speaker 3: touch is really important. Yeah, children, it might be a
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Speaker 3: touch on the shoulder or the back. But if like
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Speaker 3: when I worked in Thailand after the Southeast Asian tsunami
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Speaker 3: with the children, very often, if they had a tummy ache,
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Speaker 3: we put the hand on the tummy. If they had
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Speaker 3: a headache, we held their head in the back right
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Speaker 3: here on the occipital area of the back.
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Speaker 2: They had.
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Speaker 3: Just gently cup your hands and let the child's head
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Speaker 3: fall into your hands and ask them what's that? What
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Speaker 3: is that what do you notice?
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Speaker 2: What's that like? Yes? And so when you make a
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Speaker 2: physical connection you help the nervous system that's in shock.
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Speaker 2: And then also what I remember is when you when
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Speaker 2: you apply touch in an appropriate way and where it's needed,
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Speaker 2: that there's some there's an oxytocin that is released as well.
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Speaker 2: Is that right? Yes?
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Speaker 3: But it also helps the child to be able to feel,
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Speaker 3: to look within. You know, most people nowadays know about
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Speaker 3: emotional intelligence, but this is a different type of intelligence
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Speaker 3: called introceptive or sensation awareness. Introceptive are the physical sensations,
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Speaker 3: and it's that when you have the hand in the
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Speaker 3: place that hurts, that's when the child you can ask
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Speaker 3: the child to bring their awareness there and then they
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Speaker 3: can notice more sensations that are happening. They can actually,
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Speaker 3: like the little four year old even notice you know
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Speaker 3: that her belly was getting softer. She didn't use the
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Speaker 3: word softer, but she's she's you know, she said it
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Speaker 3: felt better, and that's very Typically children don't have a
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Speaker 3: big vocabulary for sensations. So that's when you.
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Speaker 2: Know that my clients, a lot of my clients, when
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Speaker 2: they first start with me, they don't either. I think
12:37
Speaker 2: that's a part of our culture that is more focused
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Speaker 2: on on first the mind and then maybe emotions, but
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Speaker 2: last probably the body.
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Speaker 3: That's why this book that Peter has me to write
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Speaker 3: chrama through a child's eyes. It has exercises for the
12:56
Speaker 3: parents to deal with.
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Speaker 2: I love it. I love it. This has a.
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Speaker 3: Smaller version, you know, the same. This is a smaller
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Speaker 3: version for parents. It's basically very similar, except that it
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Speaker 3: doesn't have the chapter on natural disasters or birth trauma,
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Speaker 3: or the chapter on working with institutions like hospitals and schools.
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Speaker 3: But I was asked by North Atlantic to build to
13:19
Speaker 3: make a special one for agencies in schools, So that's
13:23
Speaker 3: this one. Brain Changing Strategies to Trauma proof of our schools.
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Speaker 2: Great. Yeah, those are very powerful books. I definitely read
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Speaker 2: your trauma from the child's perspective. And I think if
13:35
Speaker 2: you could clarify too for people who maybe not as
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Speaker 2: familiar is there are many ways of experiencing loss and trauma.
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Speaker 2: And it's not only by if somebody died. It's also
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Speaker 2: through natural disasters. It's many any ways that you can
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Speaker 2: experience trauma. Do you want to speak to that for
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Speaker 2: a child too?
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Speaker 3: I mean children sometimes they fall and lose a tooth.
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Speaker 3: They might have an injury where they lose a toe
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Speaker 3: or even a limb. They also have there's a lot
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Speaker 3: of children, unfortunately, have experienced sexual trauma and older teenagers rape,
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Speaker 3: and that's a loss of innocence. So there's a what's
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Speaker 3: nice because we can't do all this in twenty minutes,
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Speaker 3: But I have a timeline in the books, a picture
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Speaker 3: of it with step by step by step how you
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Speaker 3: work with the timeline of when the loss began up
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Speaker 3: until present time, and it directs you what to do
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Speaker 3: before and after and some of the if it was
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Speaker 3: a loss of a person through divorce or death or illness,
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Speaker 3: it helps you to see things that you wish you
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Speaker 3: had told the person before and helps you to work
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Speaker 3: through the emotional part of the trauma, which is brief,
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Speaker 3: and that's mediated from a different part of the brain.
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Speaker 3: It's the middle brain that's a part of the limbic system,
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Speaker 3: and it's it's it's different, so you have to work
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Speaker 3: with the emotional brain and the thinking brain for the
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Speaker 3: grieving part. But initially the shock is what's what we
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Speaker 3: learned from Peter Levine which was missing, and that's exactly
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Speaker 3: what you're talking about, Suzanne, is working with the nervous
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Speaker 3: system through the sensations.
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Speaker 2: Yes, and that seems to be the number one because
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Speaker 2: that also informs your emotions. It's not only informing your body,
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Speaker 2: but it's also informing your emotions.
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Speaker 3: Yes. And if this shaka isn't worked through, there's a frozenness. Yeah,
15:52
Speaker 3: instance there's not that you will at least lose access
15:55
Speaker 3: to your normal emotions. You can get very flat emotions.
15:59
Speaker 3: And children will have a flat what we call a
16:01
Speaker 3: flat affect, like I'm okay, now, there's nothing wrong. I
16:05
Speaker 3: don't know why you're bugging me.
16:07
Speaker 2: Yes, they'll say, but they'll.
16:09
Speaker 3: But then they'll go punch somebody on the on the
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Speaker 3: school yard, or start start an argument with some a
16:15
Speaker 3: parent in a way that they normally don't. That's more aggressive.
16:18
Speaker 3: I mean all kids argue, right, but it's a way
16:21
Speaker 3: that's more aggressive.
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Speaker 2: Yes, And it's a way that you don't know your
16:25
Speaker 2: child like, it's something that it hasn't shown before. It's
16:29
Speaker 2: like unusual for that child, is that right? Yes?
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Speaker 3: And one thing that's very common, especially if it's a
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Speaker 3: disaster where there's loss, is nightmares. Night nightmares, and sometimes
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Speaker 3: night terrors as well, which are different nightmares that children
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Speaker 3: remember and they can draw a picture of it, and
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Speaker 3: I teach people how to work with working with nightmares
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Speaker 3: with children and adults as well. But sometimes there's no words.
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Speaker 3: The child will wake up screaming and not even being
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Speaker 3: be aware that they they that anything was bothering them.
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Speaker 3: They think the parents are crazy for shaking them because
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Speaker 3: they're in a dissociated state. There's no literature on it.
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Speaker 3: I actually just this just came in the mail yesterday.
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Speaker 3: I have a chapter in the EMDR manual on using
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Speaker 3: somatic Experiencing Complex Trauma and Dissociation. There's an entire chapter
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Speaker 3: and I have case studies in here. It just came
17:29
Speaker 3: like this week, and then this came in the mail
17:32
Speaker 3: the day the day after.
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Speaker 2: It's so heavy.
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Speaker 3: This is from the the Handbook of Complex Trauma and Dissociation. Oh,
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Speaker 3: this is the EMDR one. I'm sorry, this is the
17:43
Speaker 3: one from the e MDR folks. They wanted me to
17:45
Speaker 3: write about sematic experiencing and this is the because they
17:49
Speaker 3: realized that with shock you can't just work with thoughts
17:52
Speaker 3: and emotions. It doesn't work.
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Speaker 2: Because you have to go into the nervous system and
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Speaker 2: clear as of shock.
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Speaker 3: First, this is the one from the Australian Childhood Trauma Foundation.
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Speaker 3: I'm working with whole communities, communities, schools, hospitals, so at
18:09
Speaker 3: LEAs just came in the male I don't know what
18:11
Speaker 3: to do with them.
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Speaker 2: They're so I look like, yeah, exactly. So what a
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Speaker 2: parent can do is they first recognize that they're in
18:18
Speaker 2: shock and then also they can help their child. Help
18:26
Speaker 2: their child by putting their hands on where they complain
18:30
Speaker 2: about the pain or where they feel something that they say,
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Speaker 2: my stomach is upset or my shoulders are hurting, and
18:37
Speaker 2: then the parent can connect with that and that will
18:41
Speaker 2: help the nervous system. And then what I take from
18:44
Speaker 2: you Then you go into the emotion of grief.
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Speaker 3: That might not even come up till the next day,
18:50
Speaker 3: and you can have child draw pictures of it and
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Speaker 3: share if they're old enough to use their words. With teenagers,
18:57
Speaker 3: they're not going to want to have touch necess the
19:01
Speaker 3: younger teenager's light. It depends, but you always ask permission anyway,
19:07
Speaker 3: would would would it? Would it help if Mommy or
19:09
Speaker 3: daddy or grandma put their hand hand where it hurts,
19:13
Speaker 3: And usually kids will say yes or on would you
19:16
Speaker 3: rather have it on your shoulder or back. With very
19:19
Speaker 3: very little kids, they can sit on the mom's left,
19:22
Speaker 3: but you don't want to hold the child so tight
19:25
Speaker 3: so that they can't shake. The important thing here is
19:28
Speaker 3: the parent or whoever is holding the child or touching
19:31
Speaker 3: the child has to be grounded.
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Speaker 2: Okay, so that's.
19:37
Speaker 3: Related because what comes through the hand is going to
19:39
Speaker 3: be transmitted if the If the parent feels anxious and nervous,
19:44
Speaker 3: they shouldn't touch the child.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, because our nervous system synchronize.
19:48
Speaker 3: Right, Yes, exactly exactly. The child will pick up and
19:53
Speaker 3: not only have their own anxiety, but now they'll have
19:55
Speaker 3: their parents' anxiety.
19:57
Speaker 2: Yes, and then if he was depending on the age,
20:01
Speaker 2: because children't feel egocentric, they take on the responsibility of
20:06
Speaker 2: their parents. They then think it's their fault, possibly too.
20:10
Speaker 3: And the parents shouldn't be too surprised if the child
20:13
Speaker 3: regresses in their development, especially the younger ones. So they
20:18
Speaker 3: may start bedwetting again if it's a really severe trauma,
20:22
Speaker 3: or they may want to go back to the bottle
20:24
Speaker 3: if they're using a cup, or have mommy feed them,
20:27
Speaker 3: or rocking is very good. Singing Lalla Bah heis no
20:30
Speaker 3: matter what age. But what's important is that they not
20:37
Speaker 3: to shame the child, to say, oh, you know, you've
20:39
Speaker 3: been through a lot, I'm not surprised this is normal
20:43
Speaker 3: for you to wet your bed because it was so scary.
20:49
Speaker 3: A lot has to do with the gentleness and the
20:51
Speaker 3: tone of the words. Part of the se training program,
20:56
Speaker 3: Peter has taught us Stephen Porge's beautiful polyvagel theory work
21:01
Speaker 3: and how rhythms, yes, pacing, presence, and tone of voice
21:08
Speaker 3: have to do with how the child will receive your words,
21:12
Speaker 3: and it will help them to come if they see
21:15
Speaker 3: the parent is not is not angry or shaming them,
21:20
Speaker 3: and the parent is helping them. And you could even
21:24
Speaker 3: stand up with your child, especially children that aren't babies
21:29
Speaker 3: or toddlers, but older, little older children's, elementary school children,
21:33
Speaker 3: and say let's do a little bit of grounding to
21:36
Speaker 3: feel Mother Earth beleath our feet. And we can even
21:40
Speaker 3: go out on a grassy area, or if we have
21:43
Speaker 3: a floor that's wooden, take the shoes off and just
21:46
Speaker 3: let's be together and rock back and forth. You can
21:50
Speaker 3: be across from me and we'll play a little game
21:53
Speaker 3: of just mirroring each other and see if you can
21:58
Speaker 3: find your internal rhythm and allow your energy to just
22:02
Speaker 3: drop way down into the floor, as if you have
22:06
Speaker 3: roots growing deep into mother earth.
22:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the grounding. And you are working on a
22:12
Speaker 2: children's book, and I imagine that's what you have in
22:14
Speaker 2: that too, And we.
22:15
Speaker 3: Have Oh yes, I was disappointed that I couldn't show
22:19
Speaker 3: you the coverage today, but I made it. I don't
22:23
Speaker 3: have a color printer, but it it's gonna look like this.
22:26
Speaker 3: It's called My Inner Doggie is Growling. Here's the one
22:32
Speaker 3: the professional person did, and they didn't do a pretty
22:35
Speaker 3: good job. It doesn't even show up. But the subtitle
22:38
Speaker 3: is A dog one Magical Adventure to Name and Tame
22:43
Speaker 3: Big Anger. And it's the first of a series because
22:45
Speaker 3: anger is the most to me, is the most misunderstood emotion.
22:49
Speaker 3: It's for making boundaries and so this shows the child
22:55
Speaker 3: look himself in the mirror for self awareness and seeing
23:01
Speaker 3: the angry doggie inside and so helping children to deal.
23:07
Speaker 3: But there's pages. There's description for parents on how to
23:10
Speaker 3: use the book and how to help the children access
23:13
Speaker 3: their sensations, and there's three interactive pages at the end
23:17
Speaker 3: of the story. One is for making a sensation in
23:20
Speaker 3: a box to write sensation words. The parents can print
23:24
Speaker 3: it if the child can't write yet, if they're older children,
23:27
Speaker 3: they can make up their own. And then there's a
23:29
Speaker 3: page showing the inner doggie, an example of how they
23:34
Speaker 3: different feelings they may be having, and it shows how
23:38
Speaker 3: to balance it so if the child's only feeling uncomfortable stuff,
23:43
Speaker 3: how to see if they can feel the resources, like
23:45
Speaker 3: the person that's working with them or a pet. And
23:49
Speaker 3: then it shows an outline with little boxes to color
23:52
Speaker 3: in of all the different sensations and emotions. That's blank
23:55
Speaker 3: that's for the child to color on. And there's another
23:58
Speaker 3: page with the doggie. And then there's a page with
24:01
Speaker 3: an actual I call it the gingerbread cookie kit, with
24:04
Speaker 3: lots of space for them to show what's happening on
24:07
Speaker 3: the inside of their body.
24:08
Speaker 2: Yes, very important. We just have a couple more minutes.
24:12
Speaker 2: The time goes by so quickly, I can't believe it.
24:15
Speaker 2: But it's so important to help a child through the
24:20
Speaker 2: first initial reaction to loss and trauma, and that's your shock.
24:25
Speaker 2: And you have beautiful books and can help people and
24:29
Speaker 2: parents and community to work with the children before and
24:34
Speaker 2: then later on also work with the grief. Where where
24:38
Speaker 2: can people find information about you? Or is there anything
24:43
Speaker 2: else that you want?
24:43
Speaker 3: I have a website, it's a www. Simply Maggie Cline
24:48
Speaker 3: dot com. But make sure you spill my last name properly.
24:54
Speaker 3: It's the K L I N E. There's only there's
24:59
Speaker 3: only e at the end, and about fifty percent of
25:02
Speaker 3: the people spell it wrong.
25:04
Speaker 2: With these books, right, Yes.
25:06
Speaker 3: You could purchase those books directly from that website.
25:09
Speaker 2: Oh perfect, Okay, great, And it's.
25:11
Speaker 3: It's it hasn't been updated yet. I'm going I'm because
25:14
Speaker 3: I'm launching the book as soon as they print it,
25:18
Speaker 3: which is it's ready for printing. It's just their team
25:21
Speaker 3: is way behind where I am. And I have mailer
25:25
Speaker 3: light that hasn't been put onto my website, and they
25:28
Speaker 3: can actually subscribe. It's free to subscribe. Just put their
25:32
Speaker 3: name in and they'll get a notification when the book
25:36
Speaker 3: comes out. Great should come out soon.
25:39
Speaker 2: I hope his fingers crossed, because it's so helpful for
25:44
Speaker 2: children to work through that, and there's definitely so many
25:47
Speaker 2: reasons nowadays that children can go into shotgun trauma.
25:52
Speaker 3: I never got to ask you if mcpheerson I don't
25:56
Speaker 3: know his first name.
25:57
Speaker 2: Hi, guy Macpheerson.
26:00
Speaker 3: That's an easy name if it's the Heat broadcast internationally,
26:03
Speaker 3: because I am going to be doing a play shop
26:06
Speaker 3: and it shows what I teach in the play shop.
26:09
Speaker 3: Uh In. It's not posted on there the dates yet,
26:13
Speaker 3: but it's going to be for Southeast Asia and China's
26:16
Speaker 3: time zone. But it will be in English with simultaneous
26:20
Speaker 3: translation into into Mandarin, and it will be we're finalizing
26:24
Speaker 3: the dates. I think it'll be two three hour segments
26:29
Speaker 3: in the end of July and one two three hour
26:33
Speaker 3: segments in the beginning of August. We're finalizing the August states,
26:38
Speaker 3: so it'll be two separate weekends, but only three hours
26:41
Speaker 3: each day, and it'll be five o'clock eight o'clock in
26:45
Speaker 3: Pacific time. But that'll be posted within the next month.
26:49
Speaker 3: And the mailer light.
26:50
Speaker 2: Out was that and you on your website, it'll be up.
26:53
Speaker 3: Yeah, if they check my website, they can check it
26:57
Speaker 3: right now, but it's it won't be updated for a
26:59
Speaker 3: couple yeah.
27:01
Speaker 2: Okay, good, okay, Well, thank you so much. Thank you
27:05
Speaker 2: for giving me a chance to interview you and for
27:08
Speaker 2: educating everyone about how to help children. It's so important
27:13
Speaker 2: and so and good luck was your book and all
27:17
Speaker 2: your workshops and all you endeavors, So thank you so much. Welcome.
27:22
Speaker 3: It's my pleasure.
27:23
Speaker 2: There's one other thing.
27:24
Speaker 3: I mean, people can start this way before a tragedy happens.
27:28
Speaker 3: And that's the reason I wrote this book. It's for
27:31
Speaker 3: before or after, but to get kids ready. And when
27:34
Speaker 3: the kids come home from school and they had a
27:36
Speaker 3: good day or a not so good day and they
27:39
Speaker 3: say I'm really happy or I'm really angry or I'm
27:42
Speaker 3: really sad, to say, can you can what is that
27:46
Speaker 3: like to be sad in your body? Where do you
27:48
Speaker 3: feel it?
27:48
Speaker 2: Sweetie?
27:49
Speaker 1: You know?
27:49
Speaker 3: Is it in your heart or is it in your
27:52
Speaker 3: If they can't, if they don't answer, usually kids will
27:54
Speaker 3: answer right away. I'll give them a menu. When I
27:56
Speaker 3: was doing private therapy and I'd say, she said, my
28:01
Speaker 3: tummy hurts, and I said, oh, is it? I started
28:03
Speaker 3: giving a menu. She goes, it's I already know. It's
28:06
Speaker 3: hard like a rock. Yes.
28:08
Speaker 2: So this is good information no matter what, because you
28:12
Speaker 2: want children to learn to be in touch with their
28:14
Speaker 2: bodies so they can they're more resilient for anything that
28:17
Speaker 2: comes in the future.
28:19
Speaker 3: These are life skills, so thank you Life skills.
28:22
Speaker 2: And it's actually good for adults too, so absolutely, okay, great,
28:26
Speaker 2: thank you so much, thank you so much. Okay, talk
28:30
Speaker 2: to you soon.
28:31
Speaker 3: I'm fine, so you can stop the recording and we
28:34
Speaker 3: could check