Latest / The Autistic Mile / Cognitive Inflexibility: Welcome To The Dumpster Fire
Transcript
- Jim Gaffney: Welcome to the Autistic Mile. Today's episode is called Cognitive Inflexibility. Welcome to the dumpster fire. Hey everyone, this is Jim Gaffney, your host. I'm joined today again by my son and co host Shane Gaffney. Shane, how are you doing today, bud? Shane: I'm doing pretty good. You? Jim Gaffney: doing well. today we're gonna discuss cognitive inflexibility. we're gonna talk about cognitive dysfunction Okay. and we're gonna kind of shed some light on this in particular, because this is something I hate to be all about me, but this is something that impacts me to a great extent. and it just impacted me within last couple of days. So I thought it was was worthwhile having an episode about this because even though there's there's three portions to to cognitive function. this this one in particular is the one that that impacts me the most. as far as core executive functions you have working memory that's the first one okay holding on formation information in your mind while you're doing tasks remembering simple steps and tasks while you're completing them okay the second is inhibitory control controlling impulses, automatic responses. and the third, and to me the most important, is cognitive flexibility. the ability to shift gears, change perspectives, adjust to new information, adapt when circumstances or plans change. now I know that's kind of long winded. but cognitive flexibility or cognitive inflexibility is is really the result of for me anyway, when I'm not able to change gears, when I'm not able to move on from a task. you know, we've talked about this before a little bit with hyper focus, but we didn't we haven't touched upon the the cognitive piece to it. We didn't really dive deeper into that. So you know when one of the when one of the core functions, executive functions breaks down you know whether it's working memory, your inhibitory control or your cognitive flexibility, you know, you're running with less than a hundred percent of your skills. So in this case, having three functions, if you're having an issue with with cognitive dysfunction or cognitive inflexibility, you're basically down thirty-three percent compared to what you normally have at 100% with three executive functions. So if you're struggling any one of these areas, you're you're we talk about the autistic tool chest and the the the tools that we have available to us. you're running without a necessary set of skills or your or or those your tools. Those tools have been impacted. so so let me set the stage for you. and then I'll shane I'll ask you for feedback. So you know, we're getting ready to do our podcast recording on Sunday. today is Tuesday. we did not get to do our recording. we had some setup issues. We were working with different camera arrangements. we were we were working at different studio. so there were challenges there in getting everything right. and by time all the time it took to get us to the point where we were ready to to start recording our episode, you know, we ran into some other technical issues. at that point, you know, it'd been a couple hours, so we just we decided to call it a day, and kind of regroup. So that was Sunday. here's Tuesday. Today is Tuesday, late in the day on Tuesday. It's after five PM. so it's been two and a half days basically since we since we did that. now for me, that two and a half days has been kinda rough. It's kinda sat with me for two and a half days. The fact that we were not able to complete this task. And I say we because you and I were both involved. it wasn't anybody's fault. it wasn't necessarily my fault, it wasn't necessarily your fault. but it didn't happen. And we weren't able to complete we weren't able to complete our podcast recording on schedule like we wanted to. and I know scheduling is a big thing for you. So for a moment, let's talk about the scheduling piece before I go on. From a scheduling perspective, how is How did you feel the impact of that? I know we're just talking about recording a podcast. We could do it any day of the week. but when you're trying to get it done on a certain day, it could be frustrating. What were your what were your feelings about Sunday, Shane? Shane: Well, it was definitely unexpected that after all that we didn't manage to get to get an episode recorded, but I was relatively calm about that because well, if you don't do it one day then you can just do it another day, or at least that's how I tend to think of it. Jim Gaffney: Well, and just so the a audience understands, we were both calm about it. there was no kicking of boxes, there was no tantrums thrown, there was no crying involved. you know, there there it wasn't there was no meltdown. This was just it was a setback. and again I I talk about I've I've given a lot of thought to it over the last couple of days 'cause we talk about the mental aspect of autism. and the toll that it takes on us. So even though there's no kicking of boxes, no crying, no screaming, no tantrum, there's still a measurable impact there. and for myself, I spent the last two and a half days thinking about not that exclusively, but it's weighed heavily on my mind. you know, not just the fact that we didn't complete the podcast recording like we wanted to, but what went wrong. How can we fix it? Are we gonna are we gonna run into the same challenges when we do it on Tuesday? you know, these are all things that for me, it's an open loop. so we haven't we haven't been able to close the chapter. We haven't been able to move I haven't been able to move on. It's I've devoted a a large amount of mental energy to thinking about this over the last few days. for me personally, it's impacted my sleep, which that's just a one of probably a dozen things that inc can impact the quality of my sleep on any given day. but this Again, as as silly as it sounds, to most people, you know, having to me the podcast is important, obviously. Anything, any project or anything I do is important to me, whether it's mowing the lawn, or doing some other chore or task. Shane: Okay. Jim Gaffney: you know, when I have something scheduled, what if I have five things scheduled, I'm gonna get all th five things done that day. so for me it was it was a setback. but again it was you know we talk about the the part that people don't see. That's the part that people don't see. you know, admittedly I haven't been myself the last couple of days. It's just it's not something that is easy to bounce back from. and when we talk about cognitive dysfunction or inflexibility, it's not meaning that we don't want to do things different or we don't want to move on. i it's almost quite literally that we can't. Our minds will not let us move on. the your mind knows something was supposed to happen. It was supposed to happen a certain way. it didn't happen. so you know that's that's it's something real. so so Shane, give me a few more thoughts. I know you know Sunday after we got home we spent a few hours you know from from start to finish. you know, what'd you do with the rest of your day? You had how were you feeling the rest of Sunday after after that? Shane: Well, after we came back home I mostly used that time to just decompress and just plot out how I was going to respond to that moving forward if there was any logical next step of how we were gonna tackle this or if we were gonna tackle it. Jim Gaffney: Yeah. Well I think and that was good. I mean you w use the word decompress. I did the same, but kind of the way I felt, the rest of Sunday and I that was you know, we got home after midday on Sunday. Sunday was almost a total loss for me. I didn't I was unproductive by not completing that one project or that one task. it sat with me the rest of the day and I found it difficult. to achieve any of anything else. I really didn't get anything much accomplished on Sunday. you know, admittedly it took a lot of wind out of my sails. It was something I really wanted to get done. I wanted to get it done on Sunday. We specifically planned it that way. and again, but I was unable to change gears. hopefully I'll see better at night having recorded this podcast episode. And by the way, for for our audience, this is not the original episode that we planned to that we plan to present this week. We had another topic which we'll reserve for another week and we wanted to shift gears, speaking of switching gears, to this topic because we thought it was important to nobody'll ever see me or Shane in a in a meltdown, a full meltdown on our podcast. This this is it's not something you're gonna see. But we wanna we wanna explain what happens in our lives and what we go through. especially the things that aren't seen because like I said so much of autism and again as much as I think about autism and the impact it has on me and my family and and those around me I've I've really wrestled with this one the last couple of days 'cause I've gotten deep into it on why you know not just not just why I can't move past something, but on the I I'm thinking more about the terms of the impact on on not just the impact that has on me but those around me. So you know, Shane and there's there's no wrong answer here. You can speak freely. 'cause I know I could be a pain pain in the behind when I get when I get I don't wanna call it a mood, 'cause it's not a mood. You know, I used to for a long time before I was diagnosed with autism, I thought I was one of the moodiest people on the planet. but it's not mood. it really is it's a it's a breakdown of cognitive functioning. and it's really it's it's knowing what it is helps. but it's still something I have trouble moving past. Even though I understand it, I understand how it happens, I understand why it happens, I understand what happens before and after. but my mind has to deal with it in its own way. It could it could take minutes, it could take hours, it could take days. in this case, You know, it you know, and I wasn't unproductive yesterday or today. I was unproductive on the rest of my day off on Sunday. but in my work at JSA I was every bit as effective over the last couple of days as I normally am. But again, in the back of my mind this was weighing on me. so it didn't per per it didn't impact my job performance, but it's something that is it's been weighing on me heavily. it's it seems no it seems trivial to some folks, but that's kind of the nature of the beast. What seems trivial to somebody, is is not trivial to somebody else. so, Shane, as far as the as far as and I'm gonna I know how I I know how I am when I'm like this. I usually I don't wanna call it shut down, but I you know I don't open up a lot about it. I don't believe in complaining about things. even now expressing this on the podcast, it sounds like I'm complaining. I'm not, I'm trying to explain it. but you've experienced this first hand. So, and you've seen me in this state. what what are your thoughts on that and and how do you relate to what I was going through the last couple of days? Shane: Well, I would say that whenever I recognize that you're in that sort of state, usually my response is to just sort of like back off and like let those cogs turn, 'cause I know sometimes when people want to help, even if their intentions are sincere, sometimes they can just try to help and make things worse. So usually I try to make sure that if my help is wanted that I help, but if it isn't then I just Let things happen as whatever seems like it's the best it'll happen. And regarding to how I relate to it, like there are definitely times where I end up with things that trouble me, and so I end up pulling into myself and trying to like think my way out of it. And sometimes like you're not able to like stop. le thinking about it or able to let it go until you feel like it's been resolved or you've found a satisfying solution to it because otherwise it feels like it's a weight that's just gonna hang over your head and like it feels like a sort of countdown to disaster if you don't get it fixed. Jim Gaffney: Right. No, I agree. And what bothers me the most about these situations, I realize that it has real impact on other on the on the people around me. And that's what bothers me. you know, when I'm at work, I'm able to mask. I'm use I'm able to put that to the back and present the best version of myself, while I'm at while I'm in a professional setting or or maybe to a lesser degree when I'm in public, but when I'm at what especially when I'm on the job, you know, my most I might be a little quieter, but I still engage people, I still perform my job functions fine. so but the real price is is at home because that's where people understand me and that's where I know that I don't have to put on that mask. I don't have to pretend like nothing is bothering me. and I'll be the first one to admit when I get in in that situation, when I get to a point where my cognitive flexibility has been compromised, I can I can I can get to the point where I lash out 'cause I get you know, if I sit with something long enough and it's frustrating enough, you know, I I don't want to say I look to try to take it out on people. but you know, it seems things that w weren't bothering me before I was in that having that dysfunction, all they b they boil to the top. and I I think I think I've you know, I'm I'm guilty of that. I think I've seen that with you over time. you know, that things that wouldn't normally bother us on any given day, because we put them behind us, they Sometimes they come back to the forefront and we we tend to emphasize the negative when we get when we when we get to that point where we're having dysfunction. at least I know that's how I feel. I do my best to try to control that the negativity, but there's times I guess I'm vulnerable when I'm at that state. yeah, I'm feeling vulnerable because I don't wanna I don't want to say it's failure, it's temporary failure, not total failure, but you know it's it's put me in a state of mind that's it's it's not the state of mind that I wanna be in or that I should be in. I'm dysregulated. and until I can get back on track again, you know, the you know, my stability is is compromised. So what are your thoughts on that? Shane: Yeah, I would definitely say that it's very hard to let go that sort of that sort of stuff when your mind your mind recognizes that it's not that big of a deal, but like your heart doesn't understand that. And so even though you try to logic your way out of it, it's hard to really stop that wheel from spinning. And so that frustration can sort of just self- accumulates until eventually you just don't know what to do with it and it sort of boils over. So that is definitely something that's very human. Like it's something that's especially relevant for us on the spectrum, but it is something that happens with everyone. Just with us it's s it requires more conscious effort to deal with Jim Gaffney: Yeah, yeah, I agree. and for my part, you know, as I tie try to understand myself better and I try to work through these things when I'm impacted, you know, even Sunday, you know, I apologize to you for even though we had we didn't have a negative negative interaction, but I apologize to you for the way things didn't work the way we wanted them. and you know, I apologize to your mother. 'cause I know she knew that she knew that it was bothering me. She knows it weighs on me. And she you know, she's the first one to say, Well, you're too hard on yourself. and she's not wrong. but when you're programmed that way to when you're programmed that way to to hold yourself accountable, that's it it's they all come together. it's not it's not You can't have one without the other. so yeah, I am too hard on myself. Yeah, which is a podcast, but podcast episode. But the fact that we didn't get it done, didn't go get it done the way we wanted to get it done, didn't get it done where we wanted to get it done, it was it was frustrating. So but from a personal growth perspective, if we if we can call it that, I myself realize when I'm it's not a c a question of whether I realize I'm in this state of mind, in a state of dysfunction. but what do you do from there? it's really hard to break out of that funk. to you just you know I've tried almost you know try to will myself out of it and it's very, very difficult. Your mind does not want to hear what you have to say at that point. You're you know it's like You were supposed to get something done. Yes, is your your mind my mind talking to me. You were supposed to get something done today. You didn't get it done. We are not good. Meaning my brain and I. you know, we are not ready to move on. We had a plan, it didn't work. and this is where kind of where the drill sergeant comes in, you know. it's your fault, you know, meaning me. you know, it's your fault this didn't happen. it's your fault we didn't get this done. so when when I talk about the drill sergeant, you know, that's kinda how things play out in my mind, you know. you know, kind of projecting you know, w whether it's temporary failure or complete failure. you know, that it's failures all relative. you know, at the end of the day, people watching us are gonna say, so what? You didn't get your episode taped on Sunday, you do it on Tuesday. but it was the the investment, the time investment, the the effort, the investment of effort and the time. you know, you were there, mom was there. so we had three people, you know, none of us really got anything accomplished for those few hours on Sunday. So you know, from an efficiency from an efficiency standpoint, you wanna get s you wanna salvage something out of that. You wanna, you know, we decided it wasn't worth going on that day. It was we got to a point of diminishing returns. and that's and and we're here today and that's and that's fine. But you know it's it really like I said before, there is a measurable impact. and that's the that's the part I try to stress and I want to convey to people. you know we talk about you know not every meltdown is Kicking, screaming, stomping, yelling, you know, tan you know, meltdowns, shutdowns and and cognitive related issues don't always transpire physically, in terms of the frustration. and to my for for my part, I try to keep it in. it's hard to kind of kinda break that routine of not complaining. It's just something that I internalize. and it's again it's the unseen cost of autism. you know, most people don't know what's happening. and that's that's the part. anytime somebody is suffering mentally, even if it's not from autism, if if somebody has anxiety or depression, even if it's not related to autism, a lot of those people suffer internally. some of them are too proud to admit that they're suffering. and I think that just adds to the suffering. And my case, I'm my own worst enemy. I don't like to talk about the fact that I'm suffering. and not verbalizing it and not being able to express that properly, really kind of just increases it. It really it doesn't help because you've got nowhere to put that, that negative energy. You've got it. It's in si it's in you and you got no way to disperse it. You got no outlet. you know, you can do certain things, but even when you get to that point, your mind doesn't want to do something else. Cause you already told your mind what you want to do. You wanted to do this and you didn't get it done. So now your mind's kinda on strike. Your mind's like, If you're not doing this, we're not doing anything else. You know, you just you're done, mister. That's that's kind of how it goes. You know, that's from my perspective, that's that's what my mind does. You know, you're done. You just you didn't cut it, you didn't get it done. We're not doing anything else today. I wish it were different. that's how it that's how it is in my mind. I'll let you round out the first the first part. Give me your thoughts on that. Shane: Yeah, I would definitely say that that there's no easy way to really grapple with issues like this. It's something that no one else can teach you because everyone is unique in terms of where they are on the spectrum and how these specific issues manifest. And so what works for me may not work for you, and vice versa. And so it's not something that anyone else can really resolve on your behalf. It's something that can only be self-taught. Like, in terms of me, I've always learned how to manage those sorts of things, like since I would say, middle or high school. And that in that way I sort of had a cheat code in that I suffered a sort of traumatic event that shattered my whole world. And afterwards that sort of changed my outlook completely and gave me a sort of sense of apathy that well, it helps to diffuse those sorts of things before they can begin because well, you've learned to that you've learned to not care as much even like you still care, but you've learned that the outcome is less entirely in your control. And so if things go wrong, then they just go wrong. Like It's not really anything that's on your hands. That's how I choose to look at it anyway. Jim Gaffney: Well, it could be one of a hundred things. where I'm just using a recent, relev relevant example. as silly as it may seem to some people, you know, what's what's what's meaningful and impactful to one person may not be that to to somebody else. So when we're trying to be what we can be and trying to do what we can do, and we don't hit those mo we don't hit the mark on a given day, I think it's it's frustrating. It's interesting 'cause during my research over the last couple of days, you know, I was trying to dive into this and see get more information on on it so I could kinda digest it more. and and they actually have something called the Zygernik effect. is a physical physiological phenomenon in which unfinished or uninterrupted tasks tend to stay more active in our minds and tasks we've completed. and that's probably the best way I can put it. you know, basically in simple terms, your brain doesn't like an open loop. You know, you've got unfinished business there. and for me, where I am on the spectrum, that is one of the things that that impacts me the most. so and there's there is real impact when we when we talk about You know, and this reminds me, you know, one of the the movie The Accountant, you've seen that, right? You probably watched that Shane: Like Jim Gaffney: more than once. centers on an autistic adult, played by Ben Affleck. and at the beginning of that movie, when he's a child and he's brought to to a center to be evaluated, he's doing a puzzle and l and in a room. He's on doing it on the table. I think it happens to be a Muhammad Ali. and he gets a whole he gets almost a complete puzzle done and there's one piece missing. and he can't finish the puzzle. And he goes absolutely berserk. and he has starts having a meltdown. His brother actually finds the piece, the missing piece, gives it to him, he's able to complete the puzzle, and then calm. he's completed what he what he set out to do. He completed the puzzle. to me that resonates because it's it it's a it's a tangible metaphor. you can I mean if we're talking puzzles and finishing something a hundred percent, you know, if you're talking about a five hundred piece puzzle and you've got four hundred and ninety nine out of five hundred pieces, that's that's gonna irk some people. and that's kind of what it's like for me. So that movie, that character, and a lot of those experiences that they the with the experiences he has during a course of his life in that movie resonate with me. it's if if most people I'm sure have seen the accountant there was a accountant too, which was quite a a little bit more violent than the first one, but the first one The first one was more insightful in terms of in terms of autistic adults, and particularly high functioning. I know, you know, sometimes we don't like to use that word. I I still use it because you know, it it's relative. It it it it talks about it explains where somebody is on the spectrum. It's I don't I don't think it's some people don't like that term and I've expressed that before and I don't mind it because it's I don't particularly like using the word low functioning, but high functioning I'm fine with. you know, but you know it's it's there's real there's real impact there. you know, I I've I wish it didn't impact me as much as it does, but out of the three core executive functions, we're talking about working memory, inhib inhibitory control, or cognitive flexibility, that's the one that gets me every time. I wish it didn't. I wish it didn't happen so often, but that's that's the one. are there any movies or any characters that that kind of resonate with you that may touch upon that, Shane? Shane: Well, actually, yes, the the character that I'm gonna be talking about next in my series actually experiences something similar to that, sort of. They spend like a great many, like, I guess months, the amount of time is never specified, but months trying to get better at a certain skill and trying to defeat someone else in a sporting event, for lack of a better term, to try and Prove to them and themselves that they have worth. And despite going all in, despite giving up on sleep and food and draining every waking day into trying to get better at this one skill, they still end up falling short, and their brain just can't cope with that. And it sort of leads to this deterioration where they just sort of freeze up unable to process what's happening. Jim Gaffney: Yeah, it's there. I mean, you see, I mean that's a a good example and ties it back there. and when we speak of core executive functions, we also when the second one on the list inhibitory control, controlling impulses, automatic responses, and distractions so that we can regulate our behavior and attention. that one is another one. I don't necessarily for I don't have an issue with inhibitory control. we when we talk about losing our inhibitions or yarn our inhibitions kinda keep us in check. you know, usually you hear about somebody losing their inhibitions when they drink alcohol. they're more likely to say or do things that they wouldn't normally do if they weren't drinking alcohol. so a lot of times the word inhibitions is ties back to alcohol or or or some kind of some kind of use of of drugs or something. so inhibitory control, it allows us to kind of control kind of what we're saying, what we're holding back. for me, although I don't have an issue, I find that that stresses stresses my executive functions a little bit because when I'm in a public setting, and this is true of a lot of people, we have to Be careful what we say to other people, as often as we can, be mindful of other people, and their feelings, be respectful of their space. inhibitory control can be difficult because there are things, especially autistic people, we there's things that we would want to say in certain situations that we know we shouldn't. And a lot of people understand there are things they wanna say, but they shouldn't. So, I'm not just talking about autistic individuals, but I think the fact that most people they they're inhibitory control. If they want to say something they don't, it doesn't stress them. They just go, you know what, it's not worth it. and for me it's not so bad if it's just something isolated, but if it's if it's a series of events, something I'm out in public where I'm constantly being bombarded by by things that I would normally want to say something to somebody about what they're doing, how they're doing it. that kind of that kind of sits with me and it kinda stresses stresses me out quite a bit, especially in public settings and stores. not so not as much at worker in that kind of setting, but still we know what we should hold back. things that we shouldn't say, although we want to say them to somebody. even if they're saying something that maybe they should not be saying. and a lot of times what we may wanna say in that situation is based on what somebody's saying to us, you know, or I don't wanna call I don't want to say we wanna lash out, but we want to respond to somebody. Sometimes we hold back, So I think that can stress stress us out quite a bit as well. And maybe more so than some other folks that maybe, you know what, it just slides off the top a little bit more. but for us, we may feel slighted a little bit more because we spend more time trying to do the right thing or trying, whether we're masking or trying to trying to fit in socially, we're spending a lot of mental energy there. so the more inhibitory control. issues that we have that we that are kind of pushing us to the edge there. we're not necessarily losing control of that of that core function. but it's stressing our operating system. if you think of the exact executive functionings in terms of a computer or a computer processor, you know, your executive functions are really governing how you're how you're managing yourself, how you're managing yourself personally. It's it's your really your internal operating system. so if that operating operating system is stressed, it's gonna be less efficient. It's not gonna work as well. it's there's gonna be issues there. so when we talk about executive functions, and especially since they're really broken down into three categories, if one breaks down, you know, you're you're down thirty three percent if it if you get a total breakdown. If you start getting stressed, you know, working memory for me has never been much of an issue. even though I'm getting older, I you know, I don't remember things as well, but my working memory i is is just fine. So I don't I don't stress about that. But inhibitory control can be one, because sometimes you want to say something to somebody. I'll give you a perfect example. Well, this is not this is not any time you want to say something to somebody. but I mean that we we see a lot of people that use their cell phones, All over and they have no regard for who is around them. You know, they'll carry on a personal conversation, whether on a line, checking out at a store, they'll even use it in the restroom. Trust me, people, if there's ever a time not to use your cell phone, it's when you're in the restroom. Take my word for that. so those are times where, you know, because we're like, What? Somebody Somebody's talking on the phone while they're in a stall at Walmart. I mean, seriously. I mean, how can I I can't even think of picking up the phone. Like I said, if there's ever a time to let that call go to voicemail, that would be it. but those are the times, situations, you know, where somebody's doing something, maybe not to me directly, but they're they're stressing my inhibitory control because I really, really, really want to say something in those moments. And I refrain from doing so because I have inhibitory control. I'm not gonna lose it. there are times where I have lost it here or there over certain situations. maybe a little bit more personal, maybe a little bit more directed, maybe a little bit more impactful to me. we try not to do that, but again, those those circumstances where I'm public, they're all stressing our operating system. you know. thirty three point three percent of our operating system falls under the category of inhibitory control. so again if you stress one part of your operating system you're not gonna be run it sufficiently. you're you're gonna be devoting more of your processing, your essential processing to to this issue you're having and it's gonna divert other resources you could use in other more productive ways. What do you what do you think about that, Shane? Shane: I would definitely think that's a very important point to make. And to add on to that, there are actually cases where autistic people they don't exercise inhibitions, not because they're those inhibitions are overpowered by something, but because like their symptoms prevent them from having them in the first place. Because there's a common test for those with autism where It's called, I think it's called a theory of a state of mind, where they're shown a thought experiment of a girl placing a ball into a box, and then while they're gone, another girl comes over and takes that b that ball and puts it into a chest. And they're asked where would the first girl look for the ball? And some autistic people would say the chest because they themselves know that's where it is. Not knowing that the first girl doesn't know that. And there are s definitely cases where there are people on the spectrum who hurt people's feelings without realizing it because they're not aware of certain social rules, or they're not adept with the fact that some things are not really socially okay to say. Like, there is one character I know named Paradot from Steven Universe who ends up like unintentionally offending people because she says things that are objectively true, but they come off in a way that is emotionally degrading to others because like from her perspective is factually true and therefore shouldn't arouse any alarm. But we obviously know there's more to it than that. Jim Gaffney: Right. I recently said something to somebody and I I it was in a response to a series of questions to me. and though I answered truthfully, and respectfully, I think they were taken back by the answer that I that they received from me. and like I said it was respectful, it was honest. But not what they were expecting to hear from me. but it was something I felt in the moment needed to be said. it was honest. but again, and it it wasn't meant to be derogatory. it wasn't it was just meant to make make my point. it wasn't meant for any other purpose other than expressing the truth. and again. there are times where I may not have I may not have said something like that, even respectful or not, it doesn't matter, where I may have held that in. But under certain circumstances, you know, it's you know, it's it's necessary. so it's not that we're losing our inhibition or we're you know, sometimes we might get feel like we get pushed to the point where we have to you know where we have to say what's on our mind too that we wouldn't normally say. so again, we always need to be mindful of other people, but again, a little honesty goes a long way sometimes. you know, especially you know, depending on what setting it it's in. sometimes you're not always gonna get the outcome you're looking for depending on who you're talking to. but we should always try to be respectful. yeah but we so so anyway So so we titled this episode cognitive inflexibility, welcome to the dumpster fire. you know, when I was thinking about how to, you know, what to name the episode, you know, dumpster fire was kinda relevant to me because you know, it's it's kinda when everything goes to hell in a handbasket. You know, it's you got a dumpster fire, it's it's a quite it's quite common phrase So for me, that's kinda how it feels, because the rest of my Sunday wound up being a dumpster fire. I didn't get anything accomplished. I didn't get anything significant accomplished. It it felt like a wasted day. So and that's again, I we as somebody who likes to put their best foot forward and likes to accomplish as much as I can. you know one of the things that bothers me the most about you know when this these dumpster fires happen, is the impact that it has on the people around me. And that's something I I really truthfully want to work on. it's difficult, but it's something I'm mindful of and I want to try to make progress. I find over the years I've gotten older, I think it's gotten a little bit more challenging to deal with these dumpster fires. and I think I think that has to do with the people that are around me. before when I was younger, you know, think about high school or even before high school, you know, you can go in your room, you can lock yourself away, you can, you know, you can I don't wanna call it pout, but you can have your time and space to to kind of work things out. and most people aside from eating meals, you know, and you're gonna have that time to kinda wrestle with that. when you're my age and you have a family and you have ro job responsibilities, you don't have the luxury of locking yourself away. so a lot of this plays out in real time. it happens you know, you can't just lock yourself in your room until you're ready to come out, until you're until you've finished digesting this. It's not the way it happens. We're adults, there there's things that need to be done. So I think for myself that's where the complexity comes in. the the lack of time or or s time and space to regulate I don't have the luxury of doing that in private. So even if I'm not in a public setting it plays out around the people that I care the most about and that bothers me. and that's that's why that's why I talk about this and that's why I talk about the impact. because there is impact. It's not just impacting me, but it's impacting the people around me. You know, wha how it's impacted me is only part of it and that's the frustrating part. I wish I was able to get through it quicker. Sometimes I can, it depends on what it is. it's it's situational. and you probably feel the same way. if you've had situations like this, do you find that certain situations even if it's if it's not a ta if it's not associated with certain tasks, do you find that some things are easier to get past than others? Shane: yeah, and sometimes it's not necessarily the thing itself, but rather where how it fits into the day at large, because oftentimes what happens with us is like small stressors, they're easy to deal with, but it's when they happen back to back, like one after the other, with little room to breathe, that it starts to get overwhelming because there's no time to process all of that. And so Sometimes your best despite your best efforts to really keep everything held together, it can really get overwhelmed by the fact that sometimes circumstances just don't allow that. Jim Gaffney: Yeah, yeah, I agree. and even for myself, I I don't know. you know, if we had the same thing happen on a different day under different circumstances and we didn't get the podcast done, it may not have impacted me as much as it did this past Sunday. Same same type of event. We didn't we if we didn't get something, if we didn't get the podcast taped, but for me I think it was the time investment. It wasn't that we had to reschedule because something happened. It was it was it was more to it than that. It was the the effort in in preparing, it was the effort in getting everything set up, and putting it and get everything put back away. it was the frustration of of equipment not functioning properly and not getting the intended result. So it wasn't just that we weren't able to get it done that day. It was the investment, the investment of effort and the investment of time. those are all expensive commodities to me. And that's where that's where the that's where for me, that's why it it differed from another day where maybe we had to reschedule Or something else happened and we just didn't get it done. it was the investment that that's what sat with me and that's what really stirred me the most. and again, but part of my a large part of my thinking is devoted to problem solving. so we digesting what happened, how are we gonna fix it? two and a half days I've had that. so that's my brain was in full full blown repair at that point, trying to figure out how to how to get it get things back on track, get things working the way you want and and get prepared to do the to do the podcast. You know, just doing a podcast by itself, it it requires a lot of mental energy. I think you'll agree to that, right? Shane: Yeah. Jim Gaffney: Yeah, it's not it's not something to be taken lightly. It's not it's not this is not our natural environment if we're comparing ourselves to you know to as people and where we're most comfortable. This is not our natural environment. and it wouldn't be for most autistic people. so we do expend a lot of men mental energy on on the on the podcast. So it's not something for us it it It does require a lot of energy. So anything above and beyond that, just kinda adds to it. So what else do we have to discuss? So we're so we're moving at a pretty good tempo for outside the box. we're making our connections. we're looking to schedule our first live show in February. so you know, we're gonna be moving full steam ahead with that. we're gonna be doing more rehearsals, and hopefully we'll be able to share some of that online with our audience. our rehearsals, for those in our audience that aren't aware, Outside The Box LIVE! is our new live show that we'll be doing hopefully in schools, various companies, and for other organizations and other venues. but we'll be performing our inaugural show in Jacksonville on February twentieth, two thousand twenty-seven. so we're putting that together pretty carefully now. we've got our venue picked out and that's gonna be we've got tickets available on our website under our our Outside The Box LIVE! page. so it's pretty exciting. It's exciting and scary at the same time. You know, we started doing the podcast. That was scary and exciting. This is scary and exciting because we'll be doing it for a live audience. we'll have live production, so we shouldn't have any technical glitches. We'll have we'll have the support that we need there from a technical standpoint, from audiovisual. so if we take that out of the out of the equation, then we just have to worry about our own performances and our own execution. So as we look to to further to go further with outside the box live and again outside the box live is it really is meant to we call it the social experiment so it's meant to drive conversation about autism it's meant to inform people about autism but it's not just all about autism it's about working together it's about you know these days even if you don't have autism odds are you know somebody that has it you may have a relative a coworker, colleague, friend, cousin, who knows? there there's more people not only that are affected by autism because they have it personally or because a family member, but because they know somebody is impacted by it. They may have a coworker who has a child with with autism. and even though everybody knows autism and they think know everything about autism, we wanna we wanna bring that to people to a better degree. We want a further understanding of autism. I like to say just because you have a disability doesn't mean you're disabled. that's one of the lines I like to use. sometimes you have a disability and are disabled. people like ourselves, high functioning autistic adults, yeah, we have a disability, but we're not disabled. you know, we're fully functional, we have we have good skill sets. and we wanna we really wanna bring that to the to the world actually, to to different audiences and we want to foster understanding. you know, although people know about autism, like I said, you'd be hard pressed to find somebody who doesn't know about autism these days. We wanna further that understanding, especially in schools and workplace environments, because as I've said before, the autistic children of today are the autistic children autistic adults of tomorrow. so we have to kind of keep pushing the envelope in terms of understanding and training to make sure that the needs the needs of these this this growing workforce and this growing population are met not only privately but in in other settings corporate settings, school settings. So we want to continue to do our part to kinda push the conversation and push our advocacy in that area. So outside the box live it's gonna we're gonna have music, we're gonna have comedy, we're gonna have live experiences, gaming, in terms of questions, audience feedback, so it's gonna be a good experience and it's gonna be something unique. It's not gonna be just another boring speech, somebody giving a boring speech. It's gonna be very interactive and it's gonna be something that people are gonna want come wanna come to watch. it's gonna be quite interesting, I promise. So you have any thoughts on outside the box or anything else for now, Shane? Shane: Heh It's definitely gonna be a memorable experience, that's for sure. Like I imagine that like even if some people aren't like one hundred percent fluent with the sorts of activities that we'll have in store, that can be a good thing because sometimes things that are not natural to a person or weird quote unquote, that can be more memorable and therefore it'll be easier to sort of recall the more important stuff from that sort of event. Jim Gaffney: Yeah. No, it'll be interesting. it's meant to be engaging. It's meant to be entertaining. but again, it's meant to be informative too. So we're not just standing up there telling people about autism. We want to show them what autism is capable of, in terms of music, comedy, in terms of sharing stories of a personal nature, and kind of get the crowd going. it's gonna it's it's something that it's a concept that we've been developing as something that we're very much looking forward to to to getting exposure on from a a live perspective. So we're very much looking forward to that. So we'll be we'll still be doing the podcast, but that's gonna be that's gonna this is a separate project that aut autistic mile productions. and again, you know, our mission here is to train and employ autistic adults. So the podcast and outside the box live, those are two of the mechanisms by which we we can further that that mission. So that's what we're looking to do. So I think that's gonna wrap it up for us today. Shane, it was good getting this one in the books. I don't think I don't think our next podcast will will meet with any issues, but if it does hopefully we'll be better prepared for it. I will try to prepare myself for it to handle it better. but I think I think we should hopefully be a little bit better going forward and We'll just have to remember if we run any any technical glitches, we'll just have to again it's more for me than for you at this point. that we'll we'll just have to kinda, you know, regroup on another day and know that it's that we can can get it done and it's not the end of the world. So Alright, well that's gonna do it for us today. We got another mile down. So as I like to say, every mile matters. Take care, everyone.