Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / DOUBLE KILLER O.J. SIMPSON GETS SLAP IN THE FACE BEYOND THE GRAVE

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DOUBLE KILLER O.J. SIMPSON GETS SLAP IN THE FACE BEYOND THE GRAVE · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Take that orenthal, James Simpson.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: O J.
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  Speaker 1: Simpson finally gets one of the many many slaps in
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  Speaker 1: the face he deserves. Some would argue he deserves the
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: death penalty for a double murder that did not happen,
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: but at least now revenge best served cold. I'm Nancy Grace.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: being with us in the last hours we learn the Bills,
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: the Buffalo Bills refuse to honor O. J. Simpson at
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  Speaker 1: Highmark Stadium in Western New York as part of the
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  Speaker 1: team's Family Circle area just outside the incredible venue. They're
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: moving into this brand new stadium, and they're leaving part
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: of their past behind them. They say, quote, we have
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  Speaker 1: made an organization decision that he is not fit to
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: display inside our new stadium in family circle. That according
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: to the Bill's president of Business Operations, Pete Goule, well,
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  Speaker 1: what's about time somebody said double murder and domestic abuse
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: Trump's being an All star athlete. Now the family Circle
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  Speaker 1: will include American Bison statutes and plaques that honor the
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  Speaker 1: past great football players who wore the Bill's jersey. The
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: Red and the Blue. Simpson spent nine of his eleven
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: years in the NFL with the Bills. He led the
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: league in rushing four times, including the seventy three season
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: that was when he eclipsed the two thousand yard plateau.
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  Speaker 1: But none of it, none of it, all the football glory,
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  Speaker 1: all the gridiron greatness cannot erase the bloodstain on the
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  Speaker 1: memory of Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman. This is what
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  Speaker 1: happened after all this time, Simpson confesses and it is
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  Speaker 1: caught on tape. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. Joining me, of course,
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  Speaker 1: is Alan Duke. Alan, you're there in La weighing in
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  Speaker 1: on this, Nancy.
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: The story of how this apparent confession video was lost
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: for a dozen years is crazy. I was invited to
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  Speaker 3: Fox Studios in Los Angeles to view the raw video
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: even as they were still working to turn it into
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: the documentary that just aired. Work on the original documentary
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  Speaker 3: was abandoned in two thousand and six for what reason,
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: I'm not sure, but I was told it was forgotten about,
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  Speaker 3: lost found only in recent weeks when they were clearing
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: out an office at Fox Television. When they put the
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: tape in an old machine to see what it was.
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  Speaker 3: They were stunned, but quickly realized how valuable and significant
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: it was, and it took them little time to hire
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: Solidad O'Brien to help turn it into the show that
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: was aired this month by Fox Television.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: Let's just kick it off. Take a listen to O. J.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: Simpson in his own word, six uninterrupted minutes. OJ puts
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: himself hypothetically at the scene of the crime.
• 3:21
  Speaker 4: The chapter, chapter six is called the Night in Question.
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  Speaker 4: And you're writ in the book. Now picture this and
• 3:27
  Speaker 4: keep in mind that this is pure hypothetical, hypothetical, hypothetical.
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  Speaker 4: Why don't you tell me what might have happened on
• 3:33
  Speaker 4: the night of June twelfth, nineteen ninety four, And let's
• 3:37
  Speaker 4: just walk through the mine.
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  Speaker 2: Well, first of on, this is very difficult for me
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  Speaker 2: to do this. It was very difficult for me because
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  Speaker 2: it's hypothetical. I know, and I accept the fact that
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  Speaker 2: people are going to feel whatever, what are they.
• 3:48
  Speaker 5: Going to feel?
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  Speaker 2: You know, they gonna you know, some whatever whatever they
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  Speaker 2: want to feel. In the book, the hypothetical is Arlie, Charlie.
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  Speaker 2: This guy Charlie shows up, the guy who had we
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: used to become friends with and Uh.
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  Speaker 5: I don't know why you had been buying.
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  Speaker 2: The closet house, but it told me you wouldn't believe
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  Speaker 2: what's going on over there.
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  Speaker 5: And and I.
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  Speaker 2: Remember thinking, well, whatever's going over there has got to stop, right,
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  Speaker 2: So we kind of hooked up together. And you know,
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  Speaker 2: I'm kind of broad stroking this. We go over get
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  Speaker 2: in the moronco and go over it.
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  Speaker 4: Let's let's just go back and do the details. Where
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  Speaker 4: did you park in the detail?
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  Speaker 2: You pathetic in the alley, park.
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  Speaker 4: In the alley, and you've put on well cap and gloves.
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  Speaker 2: Uh, and nypathetical. I put on cap and gloves.
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  Speaker 4: And you reached under the seat for.
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  Speaker 5: A knife.
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  Speaker 2: I always kept a knife in that car for the
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  Speaker 2: crazies and uff because you can't travel with a gun.
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  Speaker 2: And I remember Charlie is saying you ain't bringing it,
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  Speaker 2: and I didn't, right, but I believe he took it.
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  Speaker 4: Charlie took the knife in the book. Yeah, yes, So
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  Speaker 4: the back gate, you go through the back gate, yes,
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  Speaker 4: and it was open or broken or I don't recall.
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  Speaker 2: I go to the front and I'm looking to see
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  Speaker 2: what's going on, and I can see that it appears
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  Speaker 2: like Nicole had I had candles all the time. She
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: really did to keep her overhead out and I think
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  Speaker 2: and music was on.
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  Speaker 5: And while I was there, a guy shows.
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  Speaker 4: Up, So Ron Goldman comes in the back age.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, a guy I really didn't recognize.
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  Speaker 2: I may have seen him around, but I really didn't
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  Speaker 2: recognize him to be anyone.
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  Speaker 5: And in the mood I was in, I started having
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  Speaker 5: words with him.
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  Speaker 4: She says to you, I just came by to return
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  Speaker 4: a pair of glasses. Judy left them at the restaurant.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, words to that effect.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, and and uh, he don't know if I believe
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  Speaker 2: it or didn't believe it. It was pretty much immaterial because
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  Speaker 2: you know, Uh, I was more concerned about everything that
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  Speaker 2: everything that was going on, you know, and was fed
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  Speaker 2: up with it, I guess.
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  Speaker 4: And uh, you get into a fight, Nicole comes out.
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  Speaker 2: Verbal a verbal verbal fight got a little loud, and
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  Speaker 2: by that time Nicole had come out and we started
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  Speaker 2: having words about who is this guy?
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  Speaker 5: Wise? He here? What's going on?
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  Speaker 4: And she says, this is my house, that the f
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  Speaker 4: on here?
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  Speaker 2: Yes, and uh, which I didn't like because once again,
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  Speaker 2: this is the same person. And if you read the book.
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  Speaker 2: You'll see some things that happened in the two weeks
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  Speaker 2: leading up to this that were very, very irritating, you know.
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  Speaker 2: And I think Charlie had followed this guy in one
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  Speaker 2: make sure there was no problem, and he brought the
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  Speaker 2: knife as things got heated. Uh, I just remember the
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  Speaker 2: cold fell and hurt herself and uh, this guy kind
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  Speaker 2: of got into a karate thing and I said, well,
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  Speaker 2: you think you can kick my ass? And I remember
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  Speaker 2: I grabbed a knife. I do remember that portion taking
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  Speaker 2: a knife from Charlie, And to be honest, after that,
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  Speaker 2: I don't remember except I'm standing there and there's all
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  Speaker 2: kind of stuff.
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  Speaker 5: Around and.
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  Speaker 4: What kind of stuff but and stuff around, you know, we.
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  Speaker 5: You know, I hate to say this.
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  Speaker 2: I know we got to back up again, Okay, had
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  Speaker 2: I want to back up to try to make people
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  Speaker 2: think that I'm.
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  Speaker 4: You wrote in the book I had never seen so
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  Speaker 4: much blood in my life. Mm hmmm, yes, covered, you're
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  Speaker 4: covered the scene. Can you describe?
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  Speaker 2: It's hard for me to describe it. I'm telling you,
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  Speaker 2: I don't think any two people could be murdered the
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  Speaker 2: way they were without everybody been covered in blood. And
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  Speaker 2: of course I think we've all seen the grizzly pictures after,
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  Speaker 2: So yeah, I think everything was covered, would have been
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  Speaker 2: covered in blood.
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  Speaker 4: And what goes through your mind at a time.
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  Speaker 5: Like that, I don't know. It's like what happened, right.
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  Speaker 4: You write about removing a glove before taking the knife
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  Speaker 4: from Charlie.
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  Speaker 2: You know, I had no conscious memory of doing that,
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  Speaker 2: but obviously I must have because they found a glove there.
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  Speaker 4: And blacking out. Have you ever blacked out before?
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  Speaker 5: Not to my knowledge, No, of course.
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  Speaker 2: Of course, if something like this would take place in
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  Speaker 2: anybody's life, if it were to happen, I would imagine
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  Speaker 2: it's something that you would probably automatically have trouble wrapping.
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  Speaker 5: Your mind around it. It was horrible. It was absolutely.
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  Speaker 1: Horrible, staggering first hand details about the crime scene, which
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  Speaker 1: he says are hypothetical.
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  Speaker 4: You wrote in the book, I have never seen so
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  Speaker 4: much blood in my life.
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  Speaker 5: Yes, it's hard for me to describe it.
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  Speaker 2: I'm telling you, I don't think any two people could
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  Speaker 2: be murdered the way they were without everybody been covered
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  Speaker 2: in blood.
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  Speaker 4: Then you see bloody footprints and you decide to take off.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, actually I believe Charlie kept saying we got to
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  Speaker 2: get out of here.
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  Speaker 4: And in the book you describe taking off your shoes,
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  Speaker 4: your pants, and your shirt and dropping it in a bundle.
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  Speaker 4: To remember that, Uh, yes, and remember what happens.
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  Speaker 5: I was like, you're going to do it.
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  Speaker 2: You know, somebody's got to get rid of as you
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  Speaker 2: may have called doing the trial is wear the bloody clothes.
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  Speaker 5: So somebody had to get rid of the bloody clothes.
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  Speaker 4: And you had left your keys and wallet in your
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  Speaker 4: pants pocket and you had to go back and get.
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  Speaker 5: It, you know, to be honest, I think I know
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  Speaker 5: that to be true.
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  Speaker 4: Yes, yes, And Charlie is the Sarahles screaming Jesus Christ
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  Speaker 4: or Jay Jesus Christ, and.
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  Speaker 2: He's in a panic. He was in a panic, and
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  Speaker 2: I'm telling him to shut up. Let's get out of here.
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  Speaker 4: So you get back in the car. You're taking your clothes,
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  Speaker 4: and drove back and.
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  Speaker 2: Parked the block away because I knew the limbo would
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  Speaker 2: be there, and came across the backyard through the two
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  Speaker 2: tennis courts, and you.
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  Speaker 4: Know, came through the house, so you went through the neighbors.
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  Speaker 5: Neighbors.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, he had a tennis court and then I had
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  Speaker 2: a tennis.
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  Speaker 4: Court and you go into the house and what happens
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  Speaker 4: in the house.
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  Speaker 2: I ran upstairs take a shower. I actually ran upstairs.
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  Speaker 2: He took some of my bags and came back downstairs
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  Speaker 2: and put them out front.
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  Speaker 1: Joining me right now. Forensic expert in his field, Professor
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: of Forensics at Jacksonville State University, Joseph Scott Morgan, also
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  Speaker 1: with me, a sitting judge, renowned victim's advocate Ashley Wilcott.
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  Speaker 1: Also with me, Emmy Award winning reporter, investigative journalist Art Harris.
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  Speaker 1: Art Harris, you know, Simpson, you have covered the story forever.
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  Speaker 1: You were there during the entire drama. You know some
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: things never changed, do they aren't?
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  Speaker 6: Matthew what shocks me. People would come up to me
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  Speaker 6: like they probably did you and asked, do you think
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  Speaker 6: he's guilty? Well, after covering him for twenty four years
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  Speaker 6: and hearing this confession, which I would call it, they
• 11:40
  Speaker 6: can't ever ask the question again. This is oj recreating
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  Speaker 6: a lot of the things that we believed and reported
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  Speaker 6: from other sources. He is telling us how he did
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  Speaker 6: the crime hypothetically, but it doesn't come off that way
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  Speaker 6: because he shifts into the first person and it is
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  Speaker 6: really really disgusting to listen to a convicted killer who
• 12:03
  Speaker 6: once upon a time was making money off or would
• 12:06
  Speaker 6: have off this book and off the interview.
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  Speaker 1: Out to Joseph Scott, Morgan, Joe Scott. When you hear
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  Speaker 1: it laid out that way, it addresses every question that
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: was raised at trial way in from your point of view.
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  Speaker 7: Yeah, what we have, Nancy, is that this this hypothetical
• 12:30
  Speaker 7: that he puts puts forward actually kind of marries up
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  Speaker 7: with a lot of the things that we see presented
• 12:36
  Speaker 7: vis vis the crime scene reports at the time and
• 12:40
  Speaker 7: and his presence there, and that's the key to all
• 12:43
  Speaker 7: of this connectivity between him and the violence that was
• 12:49
  Speaker 7: exacted exacted on these people. Let's keep in mind, Nancy,
• 12:54
  Speaker 7: his you know, revisiting past history here. His DNA doesn't
• 12:59
  Speaker 7: just show up miraculously at the scene. It was it
• 13:03
  Speaker 7: was physically there. It was physically adjacent to to other
• 13:09
  Speaker 7: evidence at that scene, and it's it's quite compelling. So yeah,
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  Speaker 7: it just it baffles my mind as as a death
• 13:17
  Speaker 7: investigator that we're literally sitting here listening to him kind
• 13:22
  Speaker 7: of narrate this event in this in this odd bizarre
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  Speaker 7: way that he does, you know, and and and kind
• 13:28
  Speaker 7: of uh, you know, embroidered with this bizarre laughter that
• 13:32
  Speaker 7: he insulds every now and yeah.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: You know, ash Willcott, the laughter is so bizarre is
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: a good way to describe it. But the way I
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: mean you look at him in the face, Ashan, You
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: and I have had so many lying witnesses on the
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: stand and watch them. Looks right at my old friend
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: Judith Reagan and says, Charlie told him all this and
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: with a straight face. With the straight face, and what
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: a crazy hypothetical. This so called Charlie no last name, says, man,
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: do you know what's happening over there? I mean from
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: Simpson's home. You cannot see what's happening at Bundy. Okay,
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: you can't see what's happening in Nicole Brown's home. So
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: this Charlie person comes in and says, hey, you know
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: what's happening over there? And they get in the car
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: and go over And now we learn Simpson keeps his
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: knife under his seat, Ashley, if I were.
• 14:32
  Speaker 8: The sitting judge and if this hypothetical scenario flash confession
• 14:38
  Speaker 8: were being set in front of me as his testimony,
• 14:41
  Speaker 8: I would find him not credible, insincere, the laughter, all
• 14:45
  Speaker 8: the things that you've described, Nancy, you know as well
• 14:47
  Speaker 8: as I do. There's no sincerity. He is not credible.
• 14:52
  Speaker 8: I do not believe and would not believe. This is
• 14:54
  Speaker 8: a hypothetical. I think it's a confession ast to exactly
• 14:57
  Speaker 8: what happened.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: Okay, I agree with you, You with me, everybody. UH
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: forensics expert Joseph Scott, Morgan, Ashley Wilcott, and Emmy Award
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: winning journalist Art Harris. Listen to AJ Simpson.
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: Seeing her and leaning over and kissing her. Can you
• 15:13
  Speaker 4: tell me that story?
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: Well?
• 15:14
  Speaker 5: No, it was tough.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: I just remember seeing it there, and I still had
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: so many feelings of if you're angry with a person
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: upon their death, if you're angry with somebody about whatever's
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: going on in your life when they die, it's not
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: like that annger disappears, right, And because of the nine
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: one one call, when I'm yelling at her about what's
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: going on, it was like I want It's almost like
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: I wanted to say, I told you, didn't I tell you, didn't.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: I say to you, you know, it's whatever the hell
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: was going on?
• 15:47
  Speaker 5: You know what I mean?
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: Didn't I So you still got those kind of feelings
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: in you and you still are trying to deal with
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to be able to say this to
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: this person. I'm never going to be able to change
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: this person's mind. I'm never going to have an effect
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: on this person.
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  Speaker 4: Again, What did you say to her when you leaned
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: over in Kista.
• 16:04
  Speaker 5: I don't know if I said anything.
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  Speaker 2: To be honest with you, I've told that some person
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: said they're hurting me.
• 16:10
  Speaker 5: Say I'm sorry. I just recall Judy Brown pulling me over,
• 16:13
  Speaker 5: looking me in the eye. Did you have anything to
• 16:17
  Speaker 5: do with this? And I know I told her.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: No crime stories with Nancy Grace Well, the Bills got
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: a backbone and stood up to the memory of OJ Simpson,
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: refusing to include him in the quote family circle outside
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: their brand new stadium Congratulations Bills because a lot of
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: football lovers refused to believe O. J. Simpson did it,
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: even though he writes a book If I Did It
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: and lays out the scenario of the murders, but it's
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: on field greatest moments that led to his membership in
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: the Hall of Fame are overshadowed by the murders of
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: his beautiful ex wife Nicole Brown and her friend Ron Goldman.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: The brutality is something I will never forget. Two Art
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: Harris joining me. You know Art, you know all the
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: players so well. Even after her death, he's still angry.
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: And what it boils down to is he's angry at
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: the thought she may be with another man.
• 17:29
  Speaker 9: That's right, Nancy. He looks in the window when he
• 17:31
  Speaker 9: goes over, he sees candles and he is claiming, oh, well,
• 17:35
  Speaker 9: she's saving money on lights. But he knows she's in
• 17:37
  Speaker 9: there with a romance, for a romantic evening with Ron Goldman.
• 17:41
  Speaker 9: And the guy shows up and he cannot contain himself
• 17:45
  Speaker 9: and really starts picks a fight and then blames it
• 17:49
  Speaker 9: on Ron Goldman. Well, he got into a karate stance
• 17:51
  Speaker 9: and he is like challenging me, and I had a knife,
• 17:54
  Speaker 9: so basically I had to kill him. I mean, he says,
• 17:57
  Speaker 9: he blacks out. But Nancy, everything they found at the
• 18:00
  Speaker 9: scene here matches up to the police investigation that the
• 18:04
  Speaker 9: defense tried to debunk. Remember, no bloody footprints, no DNA,
• 18:09
  Speaker 9: I mean, everything is now confirmed by his hypothetical confession.
• 18:14
  Speaker 9: He's got blood all over him, He's got bloody footprints
• 18:17
  Speaker 9: there that matched the Bruno Magley shoes the FBI proved
• 18:21
  Speaker 9: he was wearing. And I mean, it's unbelievable that this
• 18:24
  Speaker 9: fills in the gaps of all the evidence that was
• 18:28
  Speaker 9: supposedly faulty evidence, Nancy, and it's now confirmed the glove.
• 18:33
  Speaker 9: He admits he dropped the glove at the scene. So
• 18:36
  Speaker 9: that means Mark Furman was telling the truth, you know,
• 18:40
  Speaker 9: the witness they put up to try to scapegoat the LAPD.
• 18:44
  Speaker 9: Suddenly oj Simpson has just shown the defense to be
• 18:49
  Speaker 9: a complete charade. And you know, as we suspected.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: You know, I look back on all that time, Ashley
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: Wilcot that I co hosed copeting Grace with Johnny Cochrane,
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: and God rest his soul, and so often until I
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: kept getting the same answer, I quit asking him. I
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: would say, Cochrane, you know he did it, you know
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: he did it. Every time Ashley, Johnny would say the
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: same thing. Had hold up both his hands like I
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: don't know, and he'd say, jury acquitted him. That was
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: always his answer. It was well practiced because people were
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: always coming up to him saying that, So that was
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: his answer, and it was true, the jury did acquit him.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: But I gotta tell you, Ashley, it is a kick
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: in the stomach, a kick in the teeth to hear
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: Simpson say this, Because for me, having been a crime victim,
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: to think about the Goldman and the Brown family having
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: to hear this after all these years. I mean, it's
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: nothing they didn't know, but it's just so incendiary. Ashley.
• 19:56
  Speaker 8: Well, and even if it's something you don't know, once
• 19:58
  Speaker 8: you hear the actual person saying it in his own words,
• 20:02
  Speaker 8: that changes it. You may think, you know, like we
• 20:05
  Speaker 8: know he did it, but then to hear him describe
• 20:07
  Speaker 8: all this in his own words, I think if I
• 20:09
  Speaker 8: were the victim, I feel like, Okay, he had a
• 20:12
  Speaker 8: great defense team. But even so, how did he get acquitted?
• 20:16
  Speaker 8: How could he not be convicted? The evidence was there?
• 20:18
  Speaker 8: Now we hear his words proving the evidence. How in
• 20:21
  Speaker 8: the world did this man not get convicted? That's how
• 20:24
  Speaker 8: I would feel.
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: Guys, thank you for calling in at nine nine four
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: nine two seven, four six three. Let's go to the calls.
• 20:31
  Speaker 10: Yeah, my question is about oj simpson hypothetical confession. I'm
• 20:38
  Speaker 10: wanting to know if I know the double jeopardy rule
• 20:42
  Speaker 10: and everything, that he could never be charged again with
• 20:46
  Speaker 10: their murders, but I want to know if there's anything
• 20:48
  Speaker 10: else he could be charged with if he was to,
• 20:52
  Speaker 10: you know, actually say he did it. So that's kind
• 20:56
  Speaker 10: of what I'm wanting to know, if you know, anybody
• 21:01
  Speaker 10: could charge him with anything else if he confessed.
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: Thanks for the question, Ashley. Sadly, even with an outright confession,
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: he cannot be retried because of double jeopardy.
• 21:14
  Speaker 8: That's right, he cannot in some countries, you can be
• 21:17
  Speaker 8: not in the United States.
• 21:19
  Speaker 4: This is true, hypothetical, hypothetical.
• 21:22
  Speaker 11: I just wonder why he had to resort to such
• 21:25
  Speaker 11: a terrible way to persuade his hate or something similar
• 21:33
  Speaker 11: to that.
• 21:34
  Speaker 8: I still don't believe he did it. I believe Nicole
• 21:37
  Speaker 8: was tied up with a lot of people that do
• 21:40
  Speaker 8: this so drugs, and I believe that they're the ones
• 21:42
  Speaker 8: that killed her.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: Let's go back to oh J. Simpson essentially confessing, occasionally
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: throwing in oh yeah, this is hypothetical, but clearly he
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: is confessing to the night he committed a double murder. Listen,
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: what was the.
• 21:59
  Speaker 4: Hardest thing for you at that time? The people You
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: write in the book that you couldn't believe that people
• 22:04
  Speaker 4: thought you were a murderer.
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: It was hard to believe that it seems so easy
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: listening to TV that week, that it was that easy
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: for people to believe that I could I could kill
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: two people. I thought that my whole life meant something.
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: I thought the type of guy that I had lived
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: my life, being pretty upstanding god man, like everybody, had
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: my faults. Like most men in my position, sometime temptations.
• 22:25
  Speaker 5: Of the flesh is there, you know.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: But for the most point, I've always thought I was
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: a straight shooting, straight shooter in any event. That was
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: hard for me to accept that it was so easy
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: for people to.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: Believe that, Okay, is he insane? I guess the answer
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: would have to be yes at this point, because Art Harris,
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: you know Simpson's character, you have investigated him for so long.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: You know he's deeply involved in drugs, cheated, beat his wife.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: I mean, how many nine to one one calls were
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: where he beat Nicole Brown. I never will forget that
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: photo of her up in the courtroom with her face
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: all swollen up in black and blue because of him,
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: those nine one one calls where he's beating the door
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: down to try to get at her and beat her
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: almost sounded inhuman.
• 23:18
  Speaker 12: That's right.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: So now he's saying he's a pretty good guy.
• 23:21
  Speaker 9: What yeah, and Nancy, I mean the LAPD's district office
• 23:26
  Speaker 9: nearby was almost on speed dial for Nicole's number because
• 23:32
  Speaker 9: he was so abusive and violent, and of course then
• 23:35
  Speaker 9: blamed it on her. This was the poster child for
• 23:39
  Speaker 9: domestic violence, and he really created an awareness that we
• 23:43
  Speaker 9: now are sensitive to. But this it was horrific to
• 23:47
  Speaker 9: hear what she went through. And then now we have
• 23:51
  Speaker 9: him blaming her again. I know he did a tremendous
• 23:54
  Speaker 9: amount of drugs. She was trying to get him to
• 23:56
  Speaker 9: cut down on the coke, according to people I interviewed,
• 23:59
  Speaker 9: and he has been the one to blame her for partying,
• 24:03
  Speaker 9: and now of course blames her for having to do
• 24:06
  Speaker 9: what he did because he caught her with another man.
• 24:09
  Speaker 9: He had just bought her a Ferrari, he just paid
• 24:11
  Speaker 9: for her cosmetic surgery, and he says in this interview
• 24:14
  Speaker 9: she was looking pretty good. Well he went over that
• 24:16
  Speaker 9: night to quote, as he said in the interview, to
• 24:18
  Speaker 9: quote get some Well he didn't, and suddenly she's lying there, Nancy,
• 24:22
  Speaker 9: in a pool of blood. Blood he's got all over
• 24:25
  Speaker 9: him and of course, the trial discounts all that.
• 24:29
  Speaker 8: You know.
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: Another thing Ashley Wilcott that I hate about this is,
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: even in death, he's dragging her through the mud, claiming
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: that he heard through the grapevines she was having group
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: sex parties at the home. That's what he says. And
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: I know Jackie just turned around and gave me a look,
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: but that's what he's saying. That that is what he
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: went over there to stop.
• 24:57
  Speaker 8: He is a classic abuser, and he's narcissistic because he thinks, oh,
• 25:02
  Speaker 8: it's everybody else's fault, and everybody else was at fault
• 25:05
  Speaker 8: and I didn't do anything wrong. I still don't think
• 25:08
  Speaker 8: he thinks he did anything wrong, even in killing these
• 25:10
  Speaker 8: two individuals.
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: To Joe Scott Morgan, Joe, I want you to hear this.
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: Next sound listen to Simpson essentially confessing turned a double
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: murder and yes he has walked free.
• 25:22
  Speaker 5: Listen.
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: So I had run into her, which they tried to
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: say was stalking, because her and some friends were at
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: the opening of a restaurant. I was there with like
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: sixteen people. So I'm if I'm stalking you, I'm stalking
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: you with with my crew. You know, we're all there too,
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: you know, And I saw her and I went over
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: and spoke to her in her group. Uh. Then I
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: went out to my group to a party. But on
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: the way home, I'd say, I'll see if she's home,
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: because if she's still up, I don't know how late
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: she stayed out. No, you maybe you know, I can
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: get something.
• 25:54
  Speaker 5: In any event.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: As I approached her front door, she has a window
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: right along the wall there, I can hear something and
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: I can see movement, and when I look, I can
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: obviously see she was involved in something. I don't know
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: who's with or what. And I hit the door and left.
• 26:11
  Speaker 4: When you knocked on the door, No, I just.
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: Hit the door when I wanted them to be aware
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: that somebody's around and maybe they'd move or something. That's
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: why I didn't even look. I just hit the door
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: twice and left.
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: Alan, what happened to Charlie? Because now he has dropped
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: all pretense of a hypothetical. I guess he forgot about Charlie.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: And you know I'm using ear quotes.
• 26:31
  Speaker 5: Alan.
• 26:32
  Speaker 12: Charlie is a fictional name and allegedly hypothetical situation. There's
• 26:36
  Speaker 12: a lot of speculation on who Charlie is Charlie could
• 26:39
  Speaker 12: still be tried, right, I mean, if we could figure
• 26:43
  Speaker 12: out who Charlie is.
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: Allen, Alan, what are you saying there is no Charlie?
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: What do you even I.
• 26:50
  Speaker 12: Said, he's a fictional person in a hypothetical scenario, but
• 26:54
  Speaker 12: it's probably real what Ojay is saying. It sounds so real.
• 26:57
  Speaker 12: I believe there's a Charlie. I really belie. And who
• 27:00
  Speaker 12: is it? I think that there could be another person
• 27:03
  Speaker 12: who went by Nichole's house the night of the murders,
• 27:08
  Speaker 12: saw something going on, went and told Ojay and then
• 27:10
  Speaker 12: went with him. I think he's actually telling the.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: Truth, Okay, Ashley Wilcott, there is no evidence at all
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: of a Charlie. I don't know if Alan Due is
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: listening to the same interview I am, But at this
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: point in the interview he's not even discussing Charlie anymore.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: He forgot about him because he doesn't exist, Ashley.
• 27:33
  Speaker 8: He did forget about him. And not only that, even
• 27:36
  Speaker 8: if you want to think, well, maybe there's a Charlie.
• 27:39
  Speaker 8: He is not credible. He is not reliable. Listen to
• 27:43
  Speaker 8: his testimony. The fact that Nicole is dead and he's
• 27:47
  Speaker 8: talking about Oh, I want to go get some Nothing
• 27:49
  Speaker 8: he has said sounds at all remotely credible, including a
• 27:54
  Speaker 8: Charlie he's now forgotten about.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: Well, another thing to you, Joe Scott Morgan. You have
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: studied the autops the over and over and over. Actually
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: autopsy's there's no evidence that there was a second perpetrator.
• 28:08
  Speaker 7: No, no, there's there's not, Nancy. I think a lot
• 28:12
  Speaker 7: of people and if I could just interject this, I
• 28:16
  Speaker 7: actually sat across the table at a luncheon many years ago,
• 28:22
  Speaker 7: across the across the table from doctor Irwin Golden Golden,
• 28:26
  Speaker 7: and doctor Golden is the person that actually did the
• 28:29
  Speaker 7: autopsies on on Nicole and Ron, and I remember looking
• 28:34
  Speaker 7: at him and thinking about the things that he had
• 28:37
  Speaker 7: seen in the autopsy room, much like stuff that I
• 28:40
  Speaker 7: had seen over my years and whatnot, and thinking, this
• 28:43
  Speaker 7: man of science is sitting there and he knows, he
• 28:47
  Speaker 7: knows what he bore witness to in that autopsy room,
• 28:50
  Speaker 7: and just thinking that he's in an upside down universe
• 28:54
  Speaker 7: because no one was buying for whatever reason, maybe it
• 28:58
  Speaker 7: was because of late Johnny Cochrane, this hard evidence that
• 29:02
  Speaker 7: that we had, and at the end of the day,
• 29:03
  Speaker 7: that's what this all comes down to is the hard evidence.
• 29:07
  Speaker 7: Many people out there, they it's been put forth that
• 29:11
  Speaker 7: that he was that that both of these people were stabbed. Nancy. Uh,
• 29:17
  Speaker 7: they were not staffed. Uh. These these injuries, when you
• 29:21
  Speaker 7: look at these autopsy reports, these are incized injuries. And
• 29:25
  Speaker 7: and what that means is that the leading edge of
• 29:29
  Speaker 7: a blade was was drug across the surface of the skin.
• 29:34
  Speaker 7: It's not like they were poked or something like this.
• 29:38
  Speaker 7: Nichole's throat was cut so deeply that it went down
• 29:43
  Speaker 7: to her cervical spine. Nancy. And it's not just once
• 29:46
  Speaker 7: or twice, it's several times.
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: Can I just put it in language that everybody will understand. Uh,
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: she had her head chopped off, her cervical spine. Is
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: your neck? She was decapitated. There was a of skin
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: holding her head on. The cut went so deep through
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: her and with such ferocity it went all the way
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: through her neck and left her head hanging by the
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: skin in the back of her neck. Is that right, Joe.
• 30:18
  Speaker 7: Scott, Yeah, yeah, it is, Nancy. And these entries can
• 30:23
  Speaker 7: only be achieved in one of two ways. Either someone
• 30:27
  Speaker 7: was on top of her slicing her, or they were
• 30:33
  Speaker 7: behind her her head held back, probably at the forehead,
• 30:38
  Speaker 7: with a knife being drug across the front of her
• 30:41
  Speaker 7: throat all the way down. This isn't a one off circumstance.
• 30:46
  Speaker 7: He you know, he's sitting there arrogantly saying, you know,
• 30:50
  Speaker 7: and this is what really reached out and grabbed me
• 30:52
  Speaker 7: about the whole interview.
• 30:53
  Speaker 5: Ha ha.
• 30:54
  Speaker 7: You know, well, anybody that would have been there, we'd
• 30:56
  Speaker 7: all be covered with blood. Yeah, you know, you were
• 30:58
  Speaker 7: covered with blood. Was covered with the blood of both
• 31:01
  Speaker 7: of these people. As a matter of fact, he was
• 31:02
  Speaker 7: super saturated. He was saturated so much. We've never been
• 31:05
  Speaker 7: able to find those clothes now, have we. And he
• 31:10
  Speaker 7: divested himself with these clothing because it was so he
• 31:14
  Speaker 7: was so saturated. He knows what happened, Nancy, He knows
• 31:18
  Speaker 7: what happened.
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: Take a listen to Orienthal James Simpson in his own.
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: Words doing that nine one one tape that everybody hears
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: me yelling, I'm staying I don't want these girls around
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: my kids. And that's the only thing that argument on
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: that nine one one tape was about. I went to
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: her house and read her about riot act. I did
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: what any father and would do. And yet you know,
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: people listen to that tape and made me this horrible
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: person whenever they had that nine one tape. Can you
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: believe he's yelling at her about this? Well, when the
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: cops came, it became a parent. She said, I was
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: yelling at her about this and only this. That's the
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: only reason I was there reading her to riot act
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: is I don't want these people around my kids.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, the obvious thing, Ashley is if he
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: want had wanted to say in his children's life, he
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: wouldn't have beaten Nicole black and Blue, threatened to kill
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: her on so many occasions. They finally broke up and
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: she was living with the children. There's a reason she
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: had custody Ashley, and it's not because everybody thought he
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: was a bad person. It's because he's.
• 32:18
  Speaker 8: Violent, right, And for him to say, oh, I did
• 32:21
  Speaker 8: what every father he said, I did what any father
• 32:25
  Speaker 8: would do is insulting to fathers because he absolutely did
• 32:29
  Speaker 8: not do what most fathers would do. To go over
• 32:31
  Speaker 8: there and attack her verbally and again make sure she's
• 32:35
  Speaker 8: the victim of domestic violence in front of those kids,
• 32:38
  Speaker 8: is not right.
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: Here we go, Oh, Jay Simpson, I.
• 32:41
  Speaker 4: Want to talk about the first time you met Nicole Brown? Yes,
• 32:43
  Speaker 4: where was it?
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: It was right o Ordeal a place called a Daisy.
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: It's a little breakfast place, and I ran into a
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: friend of mine. He said, let's have breakfast. And when
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: we walked in, this vision turned to me and said
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: where do you want to sit? And I really think,
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: what a gorgeous girl. But I can't deal with this.
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: So it's three days later when I came back. I
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: went back into the day's end, was having lunch with
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: the owner, and she came back in and I said, man,
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: I would really like to take this girl out. And
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: he called her over and introduces and you know, said
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: this is.
• 33:16
  Speaker 4: One of the good guys, and you were together from
• 33:19
  Speaker 4: then on.
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, well that I had to take her before
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: we went to the pointy. I had to explained to
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: her that I was married, but I wasn't married. You know,
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: it sounded like a line, But after we talked, I
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: think she believed me, and we're together ever since.
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: You know what's weird about that, Aunt Harris? He talks
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: like I would ask you, where where did you meet Carol?
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: Your wife? Well, it seems like he's kind of glossing
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: over the fact that he murdered her.
• 33:43
  Speaker 9: Oh yeah, this is a justification. Well, you know, she
• 33:46
  Speaker 9: was this beautiful waitress's woman who I met, and you know,
• 33:51
  Speaker 9: I finally got the hook up with her and we
• 33:53
  Speaker 9: lived happily ever after. I mean, this is someone who,
• 33:57
  Speaker 9: in the middle of confessing later that that he sliced
• 34:01
  Speaker 9: her to pieces, is talking kind of and laughing about
• 34:05
  Speaker 9: the first time he met her, as you know, as
• 34:08
  Speaker 9: he's this little infatuated young guy, but in fact it's
• 34:14
  Speaker 9: she's his possession, and it explains why he was so
• 34:18
  Speaker 9: enraged that she would dare be with another man after,
• 34:23
  Speaker 9: of course he'd beaten her senseless for years. This is
• 34:27
  Speaker 9: someone who feels justified in protecting all his possessions, and
• 34:34
  Speaker 9: she was one of his possessions that he's furious left him.
• 34:38
  Speaker 5: Oh. J.
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: Sepson now describes the Bronco chase.
• 34:41
  Speaker 4: I'm want to go back to the Bronco and if
• 34:43
  Speaker 4: you can just give me some of the details of
• 34:45
  Speaker 4: what you said to each other and some of the well, there.
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: Wasn't a lot of conversation, but basically it was just
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: you had a gun. Yeah, but it was in the
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: bag in the back at that point with the pictures
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: and stuff. The police like to say it was with
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: a pass what always had my passport up there? They
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: said I had ten thousand dollars. I think I had
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: like three dollars or something.
• 35:04
  Speaker 5: That changed. As a matter of fact, when I.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: Was let out of jail after my trial and they
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: were giving me all my things back, all the stuff
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: that was in the bronco that was mine back, I said,
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: where's it ten thousand dollars? Where's my ten thousand dollars
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: that you guys claim that I had.
• 35:17
  Speaker 4: What are you thinking?
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: You're in the car, I'm in the back of It's
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: still in the back of the truck. And I can't
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: believe what I'm saying because every time we go by intersections,
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: it was like, where did these people get the time
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: to make these signs go oj and stuff?
• 35:31
  Speaker 5: And what was strange.
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: Is is I have been I was being depicted as
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: a fugitive on the radio, but from the side of
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: the roads it was more people cheering.
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: I feel like I could use a shrink right now,
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: because instead of focusing on the fact that he is
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: on a slow speed chase from police after his wife,
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: his ex wife has been murdered and his children no
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: longer have a mother, and he suspect number one. He's
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: talking about people holding up posters. That's what his mind remembers.
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: Art Harris, I remember that, But what I remember is
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: him getting away from police, holding himself hostage with a
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: gun the whole time. And he did not travel with
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: his passport all the time. He took it because he
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: was trying to figure out where he was going to go,
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: but he never made it. He's rewriting history.
• 36:30
  Speaker 9: Again, Nancy, that's right in fact, but he forgets to
• 36:33
  Speaker 9: tell us he also had that disguise you know, that
• 36:37
  Speaker 9: he might be wearing if he were to make it
• 36:39
  Speaker 9: to the California Mexico border where he was headed. And
• 36:44
  Speaker 9: he doesn't talk about the long phone conversation he had
• 36:49
  Speaker 9: with the LAPD homicide detective Tom Lang, who was trying
• 36:53
  Speaker 9: to talk him out of quote killing himself. Well, you know,
• 36:57
  Speaker 9: we thought he felt so guilty about what he had done.
• 37:00
  Speaker 9: That's that's what was going on. But here he is
• 37:03
  Speaker 9: making light of that whole thing. We see. What is
• 37:06
  Speaker 9: really going through his head is his fans. If he
• 37:10
  Speaker 9: thinks people still love him, Hey, that's what he wants
• 37:13
  Speaker 9: to hear. And so this is real. Disconnect Nancy with
• 37:18
  Speaker 9: with what was.
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: Going on at the time, crime stories with Nancy Gray.
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: Of course, Simpson was acquitted in the murder charges there
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: in la many people claim it was jury nullification. He
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: was then ordered to pay thirty three point five million
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: dollars to both the Brown and Goldman family, which he
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: never paid. He then goes on to serve nine years
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: behind bars over a robbery in kidnapping, where he busted
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: into a Vegas hotel to confront dealers memorabilia that he
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: wronged the belonged to him. He got out of that
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: jam November twenty seventeenth, then spent the rest of his
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: life chasing Nicole Brown look alike, say, living the high life,
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: signing autographs in bars and restaurants, getting free tea times
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: and meals. But now he's having supper with Satan enjoy.
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: Why do I say that because of the facts. It's
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: all about the facts, you know, Ashley Willcott. It's just
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: the same scenario. It doesn't really change. The person goes
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: on the run, they have a big water cash, they
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: have a disguise. I'm glad you reminded me of that
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: art because I'd forgotten that detail. Got a gun, money,
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: passport disguise. When a cop comes up behind me, I
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: pull over because I don't want to make it worse.
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: I also don't want to get shot. I don't want
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: to get beat up. You do what the cop tells
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: you to do. He running from the cops. Bam, that's
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: what was happening.
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 39:04
  Speaker 8: And he almost sounded like he got off on it
• 39:07
  Speaker 8: because he was like, oh, I saw all these people cheering.
• 39:09
  Speaker 8: It was great. And so keep in mind, though we
• 39:12
  Speaker 8: can't attribute rational thought to this man who has murdered
• 39:15
  Speaker 8: two people. So he was running from the cops.
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: Okay, I take a listen to this.
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: I loved her to no end, you know, and always
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: loved her, you know. I think what happened it became
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: reverse of what she said to me when she wanted
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: a divorce.
• 39:28
  Speaker 5: I loved her, but I didn't like her. I was
• 39:30
  Speaker 5: in love with her.
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: That's what she had said to me to get a divorce,
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: and I kind of figured that's where we were at
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: at the time of her death. I loved her, but
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: I wasn't in love with her, you know, And to
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: some degree I didn't really like her, but I didn't
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: like I thought she was losing herself. Did she feel
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: in many ways, you know, it's almost like you were
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: Ron and Nicole. We were physically dead, and it's almost
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: like they killed me. Who I was was was attacked
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: and murdered also in that short period of time.
• 39:57
  Speaker 5: And once again, I to this.
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: Day it bugs me that it seems that people wanted
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: me to be guilty and not really really bothered me.
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: And even sometimes it's day, it's just I'm a little
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: calcified to it all the day, I can, you know,
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: my friends and family and I because there's so many
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: stories in the tabloids that are not true, we just
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: live with it. You know.
• 40:22
  Speaker 5: I loved her to no end, you know, and always
• 40:24
  Speaker 5: loved her.
• 40:25
  Speaker 8: And yes, oh J Simpson's guilty. I knew that, And
• 40:28
  Speaker 8: when it happened back in the nineties, what a joke.
• 40:31
  Speaker 11: There must have been other ways that he could have
• 40:33
  Speaker 11: addressed his problem and not press I said to murder.
• 40:39
  Speaker 4: Did you tell me?
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: In many ways now, you know, it's almost like you
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: were Ron and Nicole were physically dead, and it's almost
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: like they killed me.
• 40:47
  Speaker 5: Who I was was was attacked and murdered. Also.
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: Did I just hear that Art Harrison, they killed him.
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: He feels like they.
• 40:54
  Speaker 9: Killed him, right if this is unbelievable, but it explains
• 40:59
  Speaker 9: why for so long he's able to distance himself in
• 41:04
  Speaker 9: his mind from what the horror that he did to
• 41:07
  Speaker 9: these two people. He's he's a sociopath who can rationalize
• 41:11
  Speaker 9: anything he does by compartmentalizing his the murders. And you know,
• 41:18
  Speaker 9: as I write in my on my website Ardharis dot com,
• 41:21
  Speaker 9: that now he can no longer run Nancy. Every time
• 41:24
  Speaker 9: he looks in the mirror after we hear this con
• 41:27
  Speaker 9: we hear this confession, he's going to look in the
• 41:30
  Speaker 9: mirror and see the killer staring back at him.
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: But you know, Jo, just Gott Morgan, you and I
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: have handled so many murder cases. I swear I don't
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: think he understands. I don't think he looks in the
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: mirror and sees a double killer. I think he looks
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: in the mirror and sees the superstar.
• 41:48
  Speaker 7: Yeah, I agree, I think that you know, playing pop
• 41:51
  Speaker 7: psychologists here. I think he's you know, a narcissistic h
• 41:57
  Speaker 7: you know, uh person that that views himself is above
• 42:01
  Speaker 7: all of this. You know, all of these tawdry details,
• 42:04
  Speaker 7: they're not tawdry details. These are two people that he's slaughtered.
• 42:08
  Speaker 7: And you know what you were just discussing with Art,
• 42:11
  Speaker 7: this this idea that you know that they killed him
• 42:16
  Speaker 7: at what level of arrogance does that take? But you know,
• 42:20
  Speaker 7: you see this repeated over and over again. And that's
• 42:22
  Speaker 7: what brings us back home, Nancy, is that O. J.
• 42:26
  Speaker 7: Simpson is no different than anybody else we've ever investigated.
• 42:30
  Speaker 7: It's just that he's got a higher profile and he's
• 42:32
  Speaker 7: gotten away with it. You know, a lot of people
• 42:34
  Speaker 7: don't have the advantages that he had. You know, they
• 42:36
  Speaker 7: can't get a million dollar dream teams and the best
• 42:39
  Speaker 7: forensic scientists in the world to come in and talk
• 42:42
  Speaker 7: on their behalf. At the end of the day, he's
• 42:46
  Speaker 7: a thug. That's what it comes down to.
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: Take a listen to Simpson in his confession.
• 42:52
  Speaker 4: When she asked for the separation in nineteen ninety two,
• 42:55
  Speaker 4: you write in the book, I felt like I'd been kicked.
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: In The shock absolutely shocked. Her and her mother had
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: been to New York a few weeks before that. She
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: had talked about how happy she was, she had gotten
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: her body completely back, She was looking great, she was
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: finally wearing all her fancy stuff. Well, I realized no,
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: because he had I didn't know.
• 43:17
  Speaker 5: But of course it hurts.
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: I didn't think it would happen, And for two or
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: three months I pursued her to no end until I
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: saw her with another guy.
• 43:25
  Speaker 5: And at that point, what are you going to do?
• 43:27
  Speaker 5: A girl's with another guy?
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: I mean, idiot, you know he's still talking about her
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: being with other people. I mean Art Harris, Ashley Willcott,
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: jose Kott, Morgan. Let me throw this to Ashley. How
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: many beatings does it take until Nicole finally decided to divorce.
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: She didn't divorce him to date other people. She divorced
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: him because he wouldn't stop beating her.
• 43:52
  Speaker 8: And what's so sad in this case is that's a
• 43:55
  Speaker 8: typical victim right. Once you become a victim of domestic violence,
• 44:00
  Speaker 8: it is very hard to walk away, to know how
• 44:04
  Speaker 8: to escape because of the cycle of domestic violence when
• 44:08
  Speaker 8: you are a victim. So here, she did things to
• 44:11
  Speaker 8: protect herself, which can be very hard to do. She
• 44:14
  Speaker 8: got a divorce, she walked away, She tried to get
• 44:18
  Speaker 8: away from his abusive, abusive fists, and yet he comes
• 44:23
  Speaker 8: after her and kills her. So it's really a tragic story.
• 44:27
  Speaker 8: And Nancy, please don't make me listen to his laugh anymore.
• 44:31
  Speaker 8: Is so badistic And throughout this entire interview, does that
• 44:35
  Speaker 8: laugh just not get right under your skin? You just
• 44:38
  Speaker 8: want to reach out and strangle him.
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I felt that when he starts laughing and we're
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: talking about a double murder, and I guess it's over
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: the years been airbrushed and edited and produced. But a
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: murder saying, much less a double murder saying of this nature.
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: It's really hard for me to just having been to
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: so many murder says. First of all, this is not
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: a asphyxiation. This is a blood letting in the front yard.
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: There was so much blood cops were sopping through it.
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: There were bloody footprints, which of course matched up to
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: his shoes everywhere. The victims' bodies had been lying out
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: there for a period of time. She had essentially been decapitated.
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: It was awful. It was a terrible, sticky, smelly, filthy
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: murder scene with two young people dead. You know, I
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: always believed Art Harris, and you know a lot more
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: about this aspect than I do, that he was drugged
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: out of his gourd that night Nancy.
• 45:59
  Speaker 9: He had been doing probably cocaine, and had been drinking
• 46:03
  Speaker 9: as he often did, and he felt he was in rage.
• 46:08
  Speaker 9: This was such a rage killing. He could not have
• 46:11
  Speaker 9: Nicole anymore, and so he probably snapped and did not
• 46:16
  Speaker 9: want anyone else to have her either. She was his possession,
• 46:20
  Speaker 9: as so many abusers feel about the women they beat
• 46:24
  Speaker 9: and ultimately often kill. This is a man who does
• 46:28
  Speaker 9: it and then justifies what he's done and goes home
• 46:31
  Speaker 9: and takes a shower, as he says in part of
• 46:34
  Speaker 9: this interview, and his friend somebody gets rid of those
• 46:37
  Speaker 9: bloody clothes we never see again. So this is someone
• 46:42
  Speaker 9: who killed his wonderful wife and got away with it
• 46:46
  Speaker 9: because he had and could afford the best lawyer's money
• 46:50
  Speaker 9: can buy. I mean, the thing that got me Nancy
• 46:52
  Speaker 9: is the blood. There was so much of it. So
• 46:55
  Speaker 9: how did DNA not work well? As I write and
• 47:00
  Speaker 9: my and my my blog ardhiris dot com, that's because
• 47:04
  Speaker 9: they bored the jury to death with the probability of DNA,
• 47:10
  Speaker 9: and they picked a jury that didn't have any math,
• 47:13
  Speaker 9: high school math or science. They knocked out anyone who
• 47:18
  Speaker 9: you know, who had any knowledge and could apply it.
• 47:20
  Speaker 9: To this bloody crime scene and that's how he got off.
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: Listen to OJ Simpson talking about the night Nicole and
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: Ron are murdered.
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: In the book, the hypothetical is Ulie Charlie. This guy
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: Charlie shows up, the guy who had we used to
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: become friends with.
• 47:42
  Speaker 5: And Uh, I don't know why you had been buying.
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: The closed house, but it told me you wouldn't believe
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: what's going on over that. And and I remember thinking, well,
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: whatever's going over there has got to stop, right, So
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: we kind of hooked up together, and you know, I'm
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: kind of broad stroking this. We go over, get into
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: Minco and go over.
• 48:05
  Speaker 4: Let's just go back and do the details. Where did
• 48:07
  Speaker 4: you park?
• 48:08
  Speaker 5: The detail?
• 48:10
  Speaker 4: You in the alley, the park in the alley, and
• 48:16
  Speaker 4: you've put on a well cap and gloves.
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: Uh, and ipathetic I put on cap and gloves, and
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: you reached under the seat.
• 48:29
  Speaker 5: For a knife.
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: I always kept a knife in that car for the
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: crazies and stuff, because you can't travel with a gun.
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: And I remember Charlie is saying, you ain't bringing that,
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: and I didn't, right, but I believe he took it.
• 48:43
  Speaker 4: Charlie took the knife in the book.
• 48:46
  Speaker 5: Ye.
• 48:46
  Speaker 4: Yes, So the back gate, you go through the back gate, yes,
• 48:52
  Speaker 4: and it was open or broken or.
• 48:56
  Speaker 5: I don't recall.
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: I go to the front and I'm looking to see
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: what's going on, and I could see that it appears
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: like Nicole had fly I had candles all the time.
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: She really did to keep her overhead out and I
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: think and music was on. And while I was there,
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: a guy shows up.
• 49:15
  Speaker 4: So Ron Goldman comes in the back edge.
• 49:17
  Speaker 5: Yeah, a guy I really didn't recognize.
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: I may have seen him around, but I really didn't
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: recognize him to be anyone. And uh, and in the
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: mood I was in, I started having words with him.
• 49:30
  Speaker 4: She says to you, I just came by to return
• 49:32
  Speaker 4: a pair of glasses. Judy left them at the restaurant.
• 49:35
  Speaker 5: Yeah, words to that effect.
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: Yes, And and uh he was if I beleeve it,
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: I didn't believe it. It was pretty much immaterial because
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: you know, I was more concerned about everything that that
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: everything that was going on, you know, and was fed
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: up with it, I guess.
• 49:53
  Speaker 4: And uh, you get into a fight. Nicole comes out verbal,
• 49:56
  Speaker 4: a verbal A verbal fight got a little loud, and
• 49:59
  Speaker 4: by the time.
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: The cole had come out and we started having words
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: about who is this guy?
• 50:07
  Speaker 5: Wise? He here, what's going on?
• 50:09
  Speaker 4: And she says, this is my house, that the f
• 50:12
  Speaker 4: on here.
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: Yes, and which I didn't like because once again this
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: is the same person. And if you read the book,
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: you'll see some things that happened in the two weeks
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: leading up to.
• 50:22
  Speaker 5: This that were very very irritating, you know.
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: And I think Charlie had followed this guy in one
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: make sure there was no problem, and he brought the
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: knife as things got heated. I just remember the cold
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: fell and hurt herself and this guy kind of got
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: into a karate thing and I said, well, you think
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: you can kick my ass? And I remember I grabbed
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: a knife. I do remember that portion taking a knife
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: from Charlie, And to be honest, after that, I don't
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: remember except I'm standing there and it's all out stuff
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: around and.
• 51:05
  Speaker 4: What kind of stuff but and stuff around.
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: It's been reported by ESPN the Bills are considering honoring
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: Simpson at the new stadium this spring. Don't do It.
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: Don't do It. Their first game at Heimark Stadium set
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: for September seventeen against the Lions, and we will be watching.
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: We wait as justice unfolds Nancy Gray's crime story, signing
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: off goodbye friend,