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The Unsolved Death of Gunner Johnson Bailey · Murder Files Unsealed

0:00
Speaker 1: Welcome to the deep dive. Today, we're doing something really important.
0:04
We're taking a close look, a necessary look, I think,
0:07
at justice, or sometimes the lack of it in Indian country.
0:11
We're focusing on a specific case, the unsolved twenty nineteen
0:15
homicide of Gunner Johnson Bailey. This happened on the Confederated
0:19
Tribes of Warm Springs Reservation right here in central Oregon.
0:22
And our goal today, our mission, if you like, is
0:24
pretty straightforward. We want to give you a shortcut really
0:27
to understanding what's going on, not just the specific facts
0:30
of this one truly heartbreaking cold case, but also the
0:32
bigger picture, the systemic problems, the structural things that frankly
0:36
often stop cases like Bailey's from getting solved. We're talking
0:39
about things like, you know, who's actual in charge, that
0:41
jurisdictional chaos. We're talking about not having enough resources, enough funding,
0:45
and also the real challenges with trust, with community barriers
0:48
that impact law enforcement on many reservations. So we've gone
0:52
through a lot of material for this, official statements from
0:54
the FBI, the DOJ, tribal policy documents, expert analysis. We're
0:58
bringing it all together for you.
1:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that structural view is just it's essential. You
1:03
can't understand these cases without it, because when you look
1:05
at Gunner Bailey's death, the public information, well there's very little,
1:10
and that's intentional, right, Investigators hold back details for good reasons.
1:13
But digging into the sources, analyzing why there's so little
1:17
info and what the context is that tells us so
1:20
much about why this case is still unresolved. It really
1:23
becomes a kind of microcosm. A powerful example of the
1:27
challenge is the whole Missing and Murdered Indigenous Person's Movement.
1:30
The m MIP movement is fighting against nationwide. So we'll
1:33
trace how these specific rope blocks, these systemic problems influence everything,
1:38
including the federal and tribal policy changes that are happening
1:40
right now.
1:41
Speaker 1: Okay, so let's start with the solid ground, the facts
1:43
of the case that we actually know. The victim Gunner
1:46
Johnson Bailey. He was thirty one years old and he
1:49
was found on March seventeenth, twenty nineteen. The location was
1:52
on the Warm Springs Reservation about fifty feet off Tenino Road, correct.
1:57
Speaker 2: And the manner of death was determined pretty quickly. It
2:00
was homicide, specifically a gunshot wound and because of where
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he was found on confederated tribes of Worm Springs Trust Land.
2:07
That immediately kicked in a whole set of complex rules
2:09
about who investigates. It meant right from the get go
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it was a joint investigation. You had the Warm Springs
2:15
Police Department working alongside the FBI, specifically the Portland Field Office.
2:20
The FBI generally handles major crimes felonies on many tribal lands.
2:25
That's their role under federal law.
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Speaker 1: Right And as you mentioned, the amount of information that's
2:30
actually been released publicly is well, it's minimal, And you
2:33
said that's intentional. It's standard practice and an active investigation.
2:36
We know the who, what, when, where, cause of death
2:39
and the main agencies involved. But let's unpack that a
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bit more. Why hold back so much information? What are
2:44
the strategic reasons, especially in a sensitive case like this
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on tribal land. Is it different than say a murder
2:50
in a big city.
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Speaker 2: It is different, or at least the stakes feel higher.
2:53
You know, the need for restraint is amplified. A huge
2:57
part of it is protecting the potential prosecution down the road.
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See in a city, maybe you have local police, state police,
3:04
multiple levels. If one path doesn't work out. Maybe another does.
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But here often the only entity that can prosecute a
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major felony like murder, especially it devolves complex jurisdictional factors
3:14
is the federal government, the US Attorney's office. So if
3:17
investigators are released too many details early on, maybe specifics
3:21
about forensic evidence like DNA or bullet markings, where they
3:24
mentioned witnesses or even persons of interest, they risk messing
3:28
up the entire federal case. Oh so well, it could
3:32
taint a potential jury pool, It could alert suspects, giving
3:35
them a chance to destroy evidence or coordinate stories. It
3:38
could put witnesses in danger. And if that one shot
3:40
at federal prosecution gets compromised, the chance of the case
3:44
ever seeing a courtroom again plummets. Especially, say, if the
3:48
suspect is non Indian, where tribal courts might not have
3:51
jurisdiction for prosecution, it gets really complicated.
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Speaker 1: Okay, So that explains why we the public don't know
3:58
certain things. We don't know if they usable DNA at
4:01
the scene, or if they matched any bullets to a
4:03
specific gun. We had no idea if witnesses came forward
4:06
right away, or if investigators have officially named any suspects
4:09
or persons of interest. All that information is kept under wraps,
4:13
locked down basically.
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Speaker 2: Exactly, it's all about protecting the integrity the investigation and
4:18
any future trial. They have to safeguard the evidence itself,
4:21
the chain of custody, who handled it when, and critically,
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they need to protect potential witnesses and the purity of
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their testimony. So the agencies involved, Warm Springs, PD and
4:32
the FBI, they're playing the long game here. They're prioritizing
4:35
the best chance for a solid conviction, even if it
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means the public and tragically the family have to endure
4:41
years of uncertainty and silence.
4:44
Speaker 1: That silence wasn't total. There was a public signal sent
4:47
out about a year and a half after the homicide.
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October twenty twenty, the FBI put out one of those
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seeking information posters.
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Speaker 2: Right. That poster is really key. It's the main way
4:57
they publicly signal, Hey, this case is still active, we
5:00
still care, we still need help. It's a direct appeal
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to the public, and importantly, it wasn't just asking. It
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included a concrete incentive. The reward exactly, a reward of
5:11
up to ten thousand dollars and the wording is specific
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for information that directly leads to the identification, arrest, and
5:18
conviction of whoever was responsible for Bailey's death. Offering that
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reward is significant. It implicitly acknowledges one of the big
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systemic problems we'll get into later, that people might be
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hesitant to come.
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Speaker 1: Forward, yeah, fear or distrust precisely.
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Speaker 2: So, the reward provides a tangible motivation, and the fact
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that this reward is still being offered years later now
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it underscores that the investigated team hasn't given up. They're
5:41
still actively seeking that crucial piece of information.
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Speaker 1: Okay, so let's talk about the impact on the community.
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Warm Springs isn't a huge place. It's described as relatively small,
5:50
close knit. An unsolved murder in a community like that
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it must hit incredibly hard. It's not just some news headline.
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It's personal. It's a neighbor, a relative, a friend. The
6:00
sources mentioned intense grief obviously, but also a really strong
6:04
demand for answers for justice. We know family members, tribal members,
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They've used social media, community events, things like that to
6:11
remember Gunner Bailey and to keep pushing for people to
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come forward if they know anything.
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Speaker 2: Absolutely, and that community response, that push for answers, it
6:20
plugs right into the larger national conversation around MMPIP missing
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and murdered Indigenous persons. Tribal communities across the country are saying, look,
6:29
these aren't isolated incidents. They're demanding that law enforcement responses
6:33
need to be different. They need to be culturally aware,
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they need to be fast, and they need to treat
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these cases as the urgent public safety crises they are.
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When someone is killed violently, especially if there's a feeling
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justified or not that it's part of a pattern of
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neglect or indifference from outside agencies, well that just destroys trust.
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So the community isn't just asking for standard police work.
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They're pushing for a fundamental shift in how these tragedies
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are prioritized and handled. They want systemic.
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Speaker 1: Change, and it seems like that push has led to
7:00
some real action within the Warm Springs tribe itself. The
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sources highlight the adoption of a Missing and Murdered Indigenous
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Person's Tribal Community Response Plan a TCRP I was adopted
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in July twenty twenty three.
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Speaker 2: Yes, and that's a really big deal. We need to
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understand what these tcrps are actually designed to fix. Because
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historically what often happened. Someone goes missing or a major
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crime occurs, and critical time hours sometimes days gets wasted.
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Why agencies might argue over who has jurisdiction, or maybe
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they just don't communicate effectively. Information doesn't flow, responsibilities aren't clear.
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So the purpose of a TCRP is to cut through
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all that confusion and delay before an incident happens. It's
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basically a pre agreed playbook, a formal protocol that lays
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out exactly who does what, when they do it, and
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how everyone coordinates from minute one. The goal is to
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create a single, clear, immediate response system that brings all
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the necessary partners local, tribal, federal, community resources together instantly.
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Speaker 1: Instead of waiting around figuring out who calls the FBI
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or does the BIA need to be involved or where
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does the county sheriff fit in. The TCRP lays it
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all out in advance.
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Speaker 2: That's the idea. It provides a blueprint for immediate integrated action.
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US attorney Natalie White, who's involved in these efforts in Oregon,
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she put it really well. She said, these plans ensure
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all available resources government, law enforcement, and community members are
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quickly deployed in support of a full and thorough investigation. Okay,
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it's built on that hard learned lesson in law enforcement.
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The first twenty four to forty eight hours are absolutely critical,
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especially in missing persons or homicide cases, and those are
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precisely the hours that have historically been lost due to
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jurisdictional fights or just bureaucratic slowdowns. The TCRP aims to
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reclaim that crucial time.
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Speaker 1: Okay, that makes sense. So the tribe itself is taking
8:51
proactive steps. Now, what about the federal side? Are they
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responding to these kinds of tribal initiatives and the broader
8:57
calls for action? The sources suggest, Yeah, that there are
9:00
significant public signals, maybe even policy shifts, indicating federal partners
9:04
or trying to increase their focus on Indian country investigations.
9:07
Speaker 2: Yes, definitely, and it's important to see these not just
9:10
as talk, but as tangible institutional changes, partly in response
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to decades of being criticized for frankly under prioritization. One
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big example is the updated Memorandum of Understanding the MoU
9:24
between the Bureau of Indian Affairs the BIA and the FBI.
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Speaker 1: Okay, and MoU, What does that actually mean on the ground?
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Is it just paper?
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Speaker 2: Well, hopefully not just paper. Previously, coordination between BIA law
9:36
enforcement and the FBI could be pretty inconsistent. Sometimes it
9:39
worked well, sometimes not so much. It often depended on
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personal relationships between agents. This updated MoU is supposed to
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fix that. It's designed to mandate better, more streamlined coordination,
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make its standard procedure. FBI Director Christopher Ray even made
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a public statement about it, committing that the FBI will
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not waver in its support of our tribal law enforcement
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agency partners. So it's a high level commitment.
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Speaker 1: Okay, but let's push on that. What specifically does an
10:03
updated MoU change. Does it mean they have to share
10:05
files faster, do joint training. Does it dictate who processes evidence?
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Speaker 2: It aims to clarify all of that, essentially, while the
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exact details are internal. The goal is to set clear
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standards for things like sharing investigative data, handling forensic evidence
10:19
across agencies, and defining roles and responsibilities right at the
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outset of a case. For instance, it might standardize how
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forensic data gets uploaded or transferred between a tribal lab
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if they have one and the FBI lab, it could
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mandate joint training exercises. So you know, Horms Spring's officer
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and FBI agent are basically speaking the same language from
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day one, following the same initial steps. It's trying to
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build that one team approach from the beginning rather than
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having different agencies operate in silos until there's a problem
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or a conflict.
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Speaker 1: Okay, that makes sense. Okay, so improving the plumbing of
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interagency work. And then there was that more recent announcement,
10:53
the one that got more press attention, maybe from the
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Department of Justice in April twenty twenty five, the promise
10:59
to urge FBI assets across the country to address unresolved
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violent crimes in Indian country. What does surge mean in
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this context?
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Speaker 2: Surge is a really important word there. It signals a
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shift in operational strategy. Historically, if a tribal police department
11:15
like warm Springs needed federal help on a tough long
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term case like Bailey's, maybe they'd get an agent assigned
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temporarily or some specific assistance. A surge implies something more significant,
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more sustained. It means the DOJ is saying they're prepared
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to dedicate and embed specialized resources from outside the local
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area for extended.
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Speaker 1: Periods, Like what kind of resources.
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Speaker 2: We're talking about potentially bringing in experienced homicide detectives, forensic accountants,
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I needed, criminal profilers, specialized lab teams, maybe even cold
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case specialists. These would be embedded specifically in places where
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smaller tribal departments simply don't have the in house staff
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or budget to handle complex resource training investigations like cold
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case homicides that require ongoing work, reinterviewing people, re analyzing
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evidence years later.
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Speaker 1: So stepping back, then you have the tribe adopting its
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own response plan, the TCRP, you have the FEDS updating
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their internal agreement the MoU, and you have this promise
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of a resource search. Taken together, these aren't just procedural tweaks,
12:17
are they. They seem to serve multiple purposes exactly.
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Speaker 2: They are partly informational, letting the public know what's happening,
12:23
maybe encouraging tips by showing commitment, but they're also deeply
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political and strategic. They represent an attempt, at least on paper,
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to rebuild trust with tribal communities. How so, by visibly
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demonstrating a level of federal prioritization and resource commitment that
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many feel has been missing for a very, very long time.
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It's a signal to tribal leaders and families that these
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cases matter. The federal resources are being directed towards investigations
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that were historically underserved or neglected.
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Speaker 1: So in the context of the gun or Bailey case,
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the message is that the ongoing investigation, the ten thousand
12:57
dollars reward, the FBI's involvement, all supposedly backed by these
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bigger systemic changes and commitments.
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Speaker 2: Now that's the intended message. Yes, whether it translates into
13:07
solving this specific case or fundamentally changes the dynamics long term,
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that's what remains to be seen. But the signals are there,
13:15
all right.
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Speaker 1: So we've laid out the facts of the Bailey case
13:17
as we know them, and we've looked at the community
13:20
response and these recent institutional efforts, the TCRP, the MoU,
13:24
the surge. But now let's really get into the core
13:27
of this deep dive. Why do cases like Gunner Baileys
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often go cold and stakehold for years. We're going to
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break down four major systemic obstacles, and these aren't just opinions.
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These are issues consistently identified in federal reports GAO studies
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policy analyzes about law enforcement in Indian country.
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Speaker 2: That's right, And these obstacles are interconnected. They're complex, they
13:48
have deep roots and history in law and in chronic
13:51
funding issues, and they fundamentally make effective policing and prosecution
13:55
much much harder on tribal lands than in many other places.
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Speaker 1: Okay, let's tackle the first one, the one ever talks
14:00
about obstacle one jurisdictional complexity. You called it the overlap
14:04
nightmare earlier.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, it really can be a nightmare. It's probably the
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single most defining and challenging feature of law enforcement and
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Indian country. Imagine trying to solve a serious crime like
14:15
a homicide. But the first question isn't just what happened,
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it's whose job is it to even investigate this? And
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who has the power to prosecute? And the answer depends
14:24
on this incredibly complicated matrix. It's not just one factor.
14:28
It depends on.
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Speaker 1: Okay, break it down. What are the key factors?
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Speaker 2: Two main things generally, First, the legal status of the
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land where the crime occurred. Is it trust land held
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by the federal government for the tribe. Is it allotted
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land owned by an individual tribal member? Is it fee
14:44
land owned outright, maybe even by a non Indian but
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still within the reservation boundaries. Okay.
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Speaker 1: Land status. What's the second factor?
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Speaker 2: Second, the legal status, specifically the tribal membership status of
14:54
the people involved. Is the victim, A tribal member is
14:57
the perpetrator, A tribal member is one or both non
15:00
Indian wow Okay.
15:01
Speaker 1: And depending on the combination of those answers.
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Speaker 2: Depending on that specific combination, the authority shifts. You could
15:07
have the tribal police involved, BIA law enforcement, maybe the
15:11
county sheriff potentially state police, the FBI definitely for major crimes,
15:16
and then the US Attorney's Office for federal prosecution, sometimes
15:19
state prosecutors. It's a web.
15:21
Speaker 1: Can you give us a quick concrete example using the
15:24
Warm Springs context just to illustrate how confusing this gets?
15:27
Speaker 2: Sure, Let's try a few simplified scenarios, keeping in mind
15:30
reality is even messier. Scenario one, Let's say, hypothetically, Gunner Bailey,
15:35
a tribal member, was killed by another enrolled tribal member.
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It happened on tribal trust land, like where he was
15:40
found in that case, Warm Springs tribal police and the
15:44
FBI would likely investigate together, but under federal law the
15:48
Major Crimes Act, only the federal government the US Attorney's
15:52
Office could prosecute that murder charge. The tribal court might
15:56
handle lesser related offenses, but not the major felony.
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Speaker 1: Okay, prosecute tribal member on tribal member for major crime
16:03
on trust Land? Got it?
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Speaker 2: Scenari two? What if the perpetrator was a non Indian
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and the victim, Gunner Bailey a tribal member again on
16:11
trust Land.
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Speaker 1: Does that change things?
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Speaker 2: Yes, the FBI would have primary investigative jurisdiction, and again,
16:18
only the US Attorney could prosecute the non Indian perpetrator
16:22
in federal court. The tribe generally cannot prosecute non Indians
16:26
for most crimes, though that's slowly changing in some specific areas,
16:29
like domestic violence after VOA reauthorization. But for homicide it's federal.
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Speaker 1: Okay, non Indian perpetrator federal.
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Speaker 2: Case scenario three. And here's where it often gets really tangled.
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What if, hypothetically a crime happens between two non Indians,
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but it occurs on feenland that privately owned land located
16:48
inside the reservation's boundaries. In many cases, tribal police might
16:51
have limited or no authority. The FBI might have no
16:55
jurisdiction unless the specific federal crime was involved. It often
16:58
defaults entirely to the state or the county sheriff of
17:01
state police, to state prosecutor, even.
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Speaker 1: Though it happened within the reservation even though it happened
17:05
within the reservation's geographic boundaries.
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Speaker 2: So now you have an outside agency, maybe based hours away,
17:13
needing to come in investigate and potentially coordinate with tribal
17:17
or federal agencies. They rarely work with man.
17:20
Speaker 1: So just figuring out who has the badge, who has
17:23
the authority based on land status, and who's involved, that's
17:26
not just paperwork. That's the first critical step of the
17:29
investigation itself.
17:30
Speaker 2: Absolutely, the initial assessment isn't just about securing the crime scene.
17:34
It's a complex legal analysis that dictates which agency takes
17:38
the lead, what resources they bring, and crucially under which
17:42
set of laws and procedures the investigation and potential prosecution
17:45
will proceed.
17:46
Speaker 1: And if they get that wrong at the start or
17:48
there's disagreement, precious.
17:50
Speaker 2: Time is lost. Evidence collected under one agency's rules might
17:53
not be admissible in another's court. Information sharing gets bogged down,
17:57
Investigations stall before they even really begin. It creates gaps,
18:00
It creates duplication, It creates massive slowdowns. And as we said,
18:04
in homicide cases, time is everything. Momentum is everything. This
18:08
jurisdictional maze kills momentum.
18:10
Speaker 1: Okay, that's a huge one. Let's move to obstacle too.
18:13
Chronic underfunding of tribal law enforcement. You touched on this earlier.
18:17
How bad is it really? How does a department like
18:20
Warm Springs PD compare resource wise to a non tribal
18:23
town police department of a similar size.
18:26
Speaker 2: The disparity is often stark, and it's structural. It goes
18:29
back to how tribal governments are funded. Unlike your typical
18:32
city or county, which can levy property taxes, sales taxes,
18:36
other local fees to fund police, fire, schools, tribes generally
18:40
don't have that broad tax based across their entire reservation,
18:44
especially over non members or feelands.
18:46
Speaker 1: So where does the money come from?
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Speaker 2: They are heavily, often overwhelmingly, reliant on federal funding, and
18:52
that federal funding has historically been inadequate and inconsistent.
18:56
Speaker 1: Okay, so when we say federal funding, who provides it
18:59
and what's the problem with it?
19:00
Speaker 2: There are mainly two streams, and understanding this helps see
19:03
the problem. First, there's money that comes directly through the
19:06
Bureau of Indian Affairs, the BIA. BIA funding is generally
19:09
meant for co operations, things like officer salaries, maybe some vehicles,
19:13
basic equipment. Keeping the lights on at the station sounds essential.
19:17
It is, But the problem is the BIA's own budget,
19:20
appropriated by Congress has almost never kept pace with the
19:24
actual documented need in Indian country for law enforcement. Study
19:28
after study shows this. So tribes often get just enough
19:32
BIA money for a skeleton crew, maybe not even two
19:34
point forty seven coverage for vast geographic areas, forget specialized units.
19:39
Speaker 1: So BIA funding is the baseline, but it's too low.
19:42
What's the other stream?
19:44
Speaker 2: The other main source is competitive grants, mostly from the
19:46
Department of Justice, specifically the COPS Office which stands for
19:49
Community Oriented Policing Services, and the BJA the Bureau of
19:53
Justice Assistance. These grants can be really helpful for specific things,
19:57
maybe buying new radios, upgrading a dispatch, hiring a couple
20:01
of officers for a limited time funding a particular program,
20:04
but they're competitive. Tribes have to constantly write complex grand applications,
20:09
competing against each other and sometimes against non tribal entities
20:13
for limited pots of money, and these grants are usually
20:16
short term. They're one time cash infusions, not the stable, predictable,
20:21
year after year operational funding you need to build and
20:24
sustain a fully functional police department, let alone one capable
20:28
of handling complex, long term homicide investigations like the Bailey case.
20:33
Speaker 1: So they're constantly chasing grants just to plug basic gaps.
20:36
Speaker 2: Exactly. It forces tribal departments into this perpetual cycle of
20:39
seeking temporary fixes. Instead of having the solid foundation needed
20:43
for things like a dedicated cold case squad and internal
20:46
forensics capability, or enough detectives to really dig into a
20:49
case for years, they're always patching holes.
20:52
Speaker 1: And that lack of capacity, not enough officers for around
20:55
the clock patrols, no specialized units. That directly connects back
20:59
to why the deal JAG announced that surge right because
21:02
the local tribal departments often just don't have the people
21:04
or resources to do it themselves.
21:06
Speaker 2: Precisely, the surge is essentially an external patch for that
21:10
internal structural weakness caused by decades of underfunding. It acknowledges
21:15
the reality that Warm Springs PD, like many tribal departments,
21:19
likely can't dedicate say, two full time detectives solely to
21:23
the Bailey case for the next five years while also
21:26
handling all the new calls for service. They just don't
21:29
have the staffing depth.
21:30
Speaker 1: And the risk, as you mentioned, is if that federal
21:33
surge ends.
21:33
Speaker 2: If the political will changes or budgets get cut and
21:36
those surge assets are withdrawn, the tribal department is right
21:39
back where it started, struggling to keep up, unable to
21:42
give these incredibly difficult cold cases the sustained attention they require.
21:47
It highlights the vulnerability.
21:48
Speaker 1: Okay, Obstacle three, this one feels different. It's about people.
21:51
Obstacle three fear and reluctance among witnesses. You hear this
21:55
a lot in relation to cases in Indian country. Why
21:58
are people hesitant to talk, especially to outside authorities like
22:01
the FBI.
22:02
Speaker 2: It's a deeply sensitive and complex issue, and it's not
22:05
just one thing. There's definitely the element you find in
22:07
many small, tight knit communities, regardless of jurisdiction, fear of retaliation.
22:12
Speaker 1: Snitches get stitches, that kind of thing.
22:14
Speaker 2: Sort of, Yeah, people worry about repercussions from the person
22:17
involved or their family or friends if they're seen cooperating
22:19
with police in a place where everyone knows everyone. Anonymity
22:23
is really hard to guarantee, or at least feel guaranteed.
22:26
Speaker 1: But the sources suggests it's more than just fear of
22:29
local retaliation. In Indian country, Yes.
22:32
Speaker 2: There's often a much deeper layer, a profound, historically rooted
22:37
distrust of federal agencies, including federal law enforcement like the
22:40
FBI or even the BIA Police. Sometimes.
22:43
Speaker 1: Why that distrust, you have to understand.
22:45
Speaker 2: The history generations of negative experiences, broken treaties, forced assimilation policies,
22:52
boarding schools, interference in tribal governance, instances where federal actions,
22:56
even though supposedly meant to help, ended up harming tribal
22:59
community or undermining their sovereignty. So for some community members,
23:03
cooperating with a federal agency isn't just personally risky, it
23:07
can feel like citing with an entity that has historically
23:10
been an adversary or at least not an ally. It's
23:13
complicated by cultural trauma.
23:15
Speaker 1: So even if someone knows something crucial about the Bailey case,
23:18
they might hesitate to call the FBI tip line because
23:21
of that historical baggage.
23:23
Speaker 2: It's a definite factor. They might worry, will they really
23:25
protect me, do they actually understand or care about our community?
23:29
Or am I just a means to an end for
23:31
their investigation. In these small communities, word travels fast. If
23:36
someone is seen talking to the FBI, assumptions might be made.
23:40
They might worry about being ostracized, not just physically harmed.
23:44
Speaker 1: So that ten thousand dollars reward we talked about it
23:47
might not be enough on its own.
23:48
Speaker 2: It might not be That's why experts and advocates stress
23:52
that effective investigation in Indian country requires more than just
23:56
standard police tactics and financial incentives. It requires genuine, culturally
24:00
competent outreach. It requires investigators who understand the history, who
24:04
build relationships, who practice trauma informed interviewing. It requires providing real, reliable,
24:10
victim and witness support services that make people feel safe
24:13
and respected throughout the process. Building that trust is slow,
24:17
painstaking work. It's not something you achieve with one press
24:20
conference or one poster. It requires sustained effort and demonstrating
24:25
genuine partnership.
24:26
Speaker 1: That really connects back to the solutions, doesn't it. Even
24:29
with the MoU and the surge, the question becomes, are
24:32
the federal agents involved actually equipped with that cultural understanding?
24:35
Do they have the training and the time to build
24:37
those necessary relationships?
24:39
Speaker 2: That is the million dollar question. The policy changes signal
24:43
intent from the top, but implementation on the ground that's
24:48
where it gets tricky. The sources often point out that
24:50
the capacity for truly culturally sensitive communication and engagement is
24:55
still pretty uneven across federal agencies. If FBI agents rotate
24:59
in and out of Indian country assignments quickly, or if
25:02
their primary focus is purely on the forensics and the
25:05
legal case without investing in understanding the community context and
25:08
building trust, then yeah, the effort to encourage reluctant witnesses
25:12
might fall short, no matter how much money is offered
25:14
or how sophisticated the investigation is. Otherwise, you really can't
25:17
separate the task of solving the crime from the task
25:19
of healing historical wounds and building trust. They are intertwined.
25:23
Speaker 1: Okay, wow, that's heavy stuff. Let's move to the final
25:26
structural obstacle. Obstacle four, scarcity of timely forensic matches. This
25:30
feels a bit more universal, maybe less specific to Indian country.
25:34
Speaker 2: It is more universal in the sense that forensic science
25:36
limitations affect all cold cases everywhere. But it's still a
25:40
crucial piece of the puzzle, especially for cases like Bailey's
25:43
where witness information might be scarce or hard to obtain.
25:47
Think about the evidence collected back in March twenty nineteen.
25:50
Maybe they found DNA, maybe they found shell casings. At
25:53
that moment, they run it through the National Databases code
25:56
is for DNA, nibbon for ballistics. Yeah, and maybe they
25:59
get no hits. The DNA doesn't match anyone in the system.
26:03
The showcasings don't match any gun that's ever been entered
26:05
into the database from another crime scene. So a dead
26:08
end a dead end at that time, But that's the key.
26:11
So those databases are constantly growing every day. New DNA
26:15
profiles from convicted offenders or other crime scenes are added,
26:18
New ballistic information from guns recovered in other jurisdictions is added.
26:22
So a DNA profile that yielded nothing in twenty nineteen
26:25
might suddenly ping a match five years later because the
26:28
person whose DNA it is was arrested for something else
26:31
somewhere else, and their sample got entered.
26:33
Speaker 1: I see. So time can actually help on the forensic front.
26:36
Speaker 2: It can. Plus the technology itself improves, labs develop more
26:40
sensitive ways to testigraded samples. New techniques emerge, like investigative
26:46
genetic genealogy, using public genealogy databases to find potential relatives
26:50
of an unknown DNA profile. So even if there are
26:53
no active leads from witnesses, the forensic evidence holds latent potential.
26:58
That's why it's absolutely critical that the the evidence is
27:00
properly collected, preserved, and stored indefinitely.
27:03
Speaker 1: And periodically rechecked.
27:04
Speaker 2: Ideally, yes, that's why periodic systematic re examination of cold
27:08
case files and evidence is so important. It's about ensuring
27:11
you take advantage of those database expansions and technological advancements.
27:15
It keeps hope ali for a scientific breakthrough even when
27:18
human leads seem exhausted.
27:23
Speaker 1: The jurisdictional maze, the chronic underfunding, the witness reluctance rooted
27:28
in distrust, and the waiting game on forensic matches, it
27:31
paints a pretty challenging picture. So let's shift now to
27:35
the path forward. What are the concrete solutions being proposed
27:40
or implemented. We touched on some, but let's look at
27:42
them specifically as remedies. What do the experts, the DOJ,
27:46
the National Institute of Justice say needs to happen to
27:49
actually improve clearance rates for cases like Gunner Johnson dailies.
27:53
Speaker 2: Well, the good news is there's a growing consensus on
27:55
what needs to be done. The recommended solutions generally try
27:58
to directly counteract those systemic problems we just discussed. They
28:01
focus on efficiency, resources, trusts, and technology.
28:05
Speaker 1: All right, let's revisit the rapid coordinated response idea like
28:08
the Warm Springs TCRP. How exactly does that help overcome
28:12
the jurisdictional nightmare.
28:14
Speaker 2: It tackles it head on through pre planning and standardization.
28:16
Remember how we said time gets lost arguing about who
28:19
does what. The TCRP basically forces everyone tribal police, BIA, FBI,
28:25
maybe state or local partners if relevant, even victim services
28:28
to sit down before a crisis and agree on a single,
28:31
unified protocol. They get it like a checklist for the
28:34
first few hours when a call comes in missing person,
28:36
discovery of romains boom. The TVRP kicks in. It says
28:39
tribal PD does a FBI liaison, is notified by time X,
28:43
BIA secures resource y, community health provides support Z. It
28:48
shifts the focus immediately from whose case is this to
28:51
here's the plan we all agreed on, Let's execute it.
28:54
It standardizes communication pathways and clarifies roles in advance that
28:58
bypasses the confusion and saves critical time hopefully preserving evidence
29:01
in capturing witness information while it's fresh. Okay, so efficiency
29:05
through pre planning makes sense. Now, what about the sustained
29:08
federal surge. You explained what it is, embedding external resources.
29:11
How does that address obstacle to the underfunding? And you
29:14
mentioned some skeptism, right, The surge is essentially the federal
29:18
government acknowledging that obstacle two is real and severe. They're
29:22
admitting implicitly that Congress hasn't provided enough baseline funding through
29:27
the BIA for every tribal department to be fully equipped
29:30
for complex cases. Does a workaround It's an operational workaround. Yes,
29:35
Since the ideal solution, massively increased stable BIA funding hasn't
29:39
fully materialized, the surge strategy says, okay, we can't fix
29:43
the foundation overnight, but we can inject specialized help where
29:47
it's most needed for these difficult, unresolved cases. So it
29:50
brings in those experienced detectives, forensic experts, etc. To give
29:54
tribal departments capacity they wouldn't otherwise have for these long
29:57
term resource intentsive cold case investigations. And the skepticism, the
30:01
skepticism or maybe caution, comes from sustainability experts and tribal
30:06
leaders welcome the help obviously, but they worry it might
30:08
be temporary. What happens if federal priorities shift again in
30:11
a few years. What if the budget for these surge
30:14
teams gets cut? Does the progress on cold cases just stop?
30:19
It highlights the fact that while the surge is a
30:20
valuable tactic, it doesn't solve the fundamental structural problem of
30:24
inadequate baseline funding for tribal law enforcement. It's treating the
30:28
symptom very effectively, perhaps, but not the underlying disease.
30:32
Speaker 1: That's a really important distinction. It's help, but maybe not
30:35
a permanent fix. Okay. Third solution area cold case re examination.
30:40
How does this address the forensic obstacle?
30:42
Speaker 2: This needs to be more than just hoping for a
30:44
random database hit. It needs to be a deliberate, funded strategy.
30:48
It means departments, maybe through surge teams, maybe through dedicated
30:51
internal resources if they exist, need a formal process and
30:54
budget for periodically reviewing old case files.
30:57
Speaker 1: What does that involve.
30:58
Speaker 2: It involves pulling the physical levens out out of storage,
31:00
seeing if new forensic tests are available that weren't around before,
31:03
like improved DNA extraction or familial searching. It means resubmitting
31:08
existing profiles to code is a nibbin regularly just in
31:11
case new matches have pomped out. It also means potentially
31:14
reinterviewing original witnesses. People's lives change, alliances shift. Someone who
31:19
was afraid to talk five years ago might feel differently now,
31:22
or they might remember a detail a previously for god.
31:25
So it requires dedicated personnel, time and lab resources. It's
31:28
an active process, not just passive waiting. It turns time
31:32
from being the enemy into potentially an ally by leveraging
31:35
new tech and change circumstances.
31:37
Speaker 1: Okay, so better coordination, more resources even of temporary and
31:41
actively revisiting old evidence. These seem like crucial systemic fixes,
31:45
but the sources and common sense always come back. To
31:48
one thing. Often the key that unlocks the cold case
31:51
isn't technology or policy. It's a person someone deciding to
31:55
share what they know. That FBI seeking information poster for
31:58
Gunner Bailey, theward that's still out there. It's a direct appeal.
32:02
We really need to emphasize for anyone listening, if you
32:05
have any information at all related to what happened around
32:07
t Nino Road on the Warm Springs Reservation back in
32:10
mid March twenty nineteen, no matter how small or insignificant
32:13
it seems, it could be the piece that investigators are missing.
32:15
Speaker 2: Absolutely that one small detail can change everything. It could
32:20
be something someone saw, a car that looked out of place,
32:23
a person walking where they shouldn't be. It could be
32:25
something someone heard, a weird conversation and argument, someone bragging
32:30
or acting strangely afterwards. Maybe it's a piece of information
32:33
someone dismissed back then but now seems relevant in hindsight.
32:37
Even information provided years later can be incredibly valuable. It
32:41
might corroborate other evidence or open up a whole new
32:44
line of inquiry when investigators connect it to something else
32:47
they already know.
32:48
Speaker 1: So if someone listening does have information or thinks they
32:51
might what are the best ways to share it right now?
32:54
What are the official channels?
32:56
Speaker 2: Okay, there's several ways. The most direct formal channels are first,
33:00
the FBI Portland Field Office. They have a specific tip
33:03
line number you can call. They also have an online
33:05
tip form on the FBI website where you can submit
33:08
information electronics.
33:09
Speaker 1: Okay, FBI tipline and website.
33:11
Speaker 2: The second, you can contact the warm Springs Police Department directly.
33:14
They have local contacts and of the primary partner agency.
33:17
Speaker 1: S Worm Springs PD. Got it.
33:19
Speaker 2: Third, for people who might feel more comfortable going through
33:22
a channel focused on broader community issues or needing potentially
33:26
more culturally sensitive handling, the US Attorney's Office for the
33:30
District of Oregon has an m MIP coordinator and working group.
33:35
Contacting that office is another way to ensure the information
33:38
gets to the right investigators within a supportive context.
33:41
Speaker 1: Okay, US Attorney's MMIP group.
33:43
Speaker 2: That's good to know, and it's absolutely crucial to repeat.
33:46
Tips can be submitted anonymously. You don't have to give
33:48
your name if you're not comfortable, right, Anonymity is an option,
33:52
and that ten thousand dollars reward is still active. It's
33:55
for information that leads to the identification, arrest, and conviction.
34:00
Various offer and like I said, don't ever think it's
34:02
too late to report something. Relationships change, loyalties shift, fear subsides.
34:08
Information that services years later often breaks these cases wide open,
34:12
hashtag tag outrovi of YEP.
34:14
Speaker 1: So as we wrap up this deep dive, it really
34:16
strikes you this case, the tragedy of Gunner Johnson Bailey,
34:20
it operates on two levels. There's the immediate human level,
34:23
the need for answers, for accountability, for justice for him
34:27
and his family and the Warm Springs community. And then
34:29
there's this larger systemic level. We've spent so much time
34:32
unpacking his case throws a harsh spotlight on these deep
34:35
seated structural problems, the jurisdictional mess, the resource gaps, the
34:39
legacy of distrust that complicate the path to justice in
34:41
Indian country. It's clear that finding resolution requires everything working together,
34:46
dedicated police work, advances in forensic science, crucial policy reforms,
34:49
and maybe most importantly, community cooperation and trust.
34:53
Speaker 2: That's exactly right, and you really see how the community's
34:56
healing and the investigations progress are linked. They depend on
35:00
each other, when a tribe like Warm Springs takes the
35:03
initiative to adopt a tribal community response plan, that's more
35:06
than just procedure. It's a statement. It's the tribe saying
35:10
we demand a better response and we are going to
35:12
help design it. It forces external agencies like the FBI
35:16
to engage within a framework that prioritizes tribal needs and
35:19
cultural context. That act itself is a step towards rebuilding
35:23
the trust that's so essential for cooperation. Justice has to
35:26
be effective, yes, but it also has to feel legitimate
35:29
and respectful to the community it serves.
35:31
Speaker 1: Okay, So, based on everything we've discussed, here's a final
35:34
thought for you, our listener to Mullover. We know forensic
35:37
science is powerful. A DNA match or a ballistics hit
35:40
can be undeniable, but getting to the point where you
35:42
have that key piece of evidence or being able to
35:44
build a prosecutable case around it often still relies on people,
35:48
on witnesses, on context provided by the community. So, given
35:52
that painful history of distress, we talked about what specific
35:55
actions actions beyond just investigating the prime itself, do external
36:00
agencies like the FBI need to take consistently and genuinely
36:03
to prove they are trustworthy partners. What does it take
36:07
to build the kind of relationship where our reluctant witness
36:09
finally feels safe, feels respected enough to come forward with
36:13
that one piece of information that could solve Ginner Bailey's
36:15
murder or the next case like it. What does earning
36:18
trust actually look like in practice? Something to think about.
36:21
Thank you for joining us for this deep dive. The
36:23
search for answers and for justice continues.