Latest / UnF*ck Your Legal Marketing / Building a Legal Empire Through Relationships with Juan Sanchez
Transcript
- Gary Johnson: Welcome to Un-Fuck Your Legal Marketing, where we get brutally honest about marketing, business development, and the messy middle of making it all work. I'm Gary Johnson, marketing coach, strategist, and professional BS detector for attorneys and professional advisors who are tired of doing what everyone else does. And if you listen to this and think, I need help with this, my next group coaching cohort starts June 11th. check out the show notes for details. So around here, we skipped the fluff, real conversations, real insights, and yeah, probably a few F-bombs along the way. So let's get into this. Building your network with the right professionals is a recipe for making more money, having more opportunities, and taking care of your clients. Today's episode is what it actually looks like to build a network and a practice through relationships over time. I'm joined by my dear friend, Juan Sanchez, who is the founding partner of Mexico Business Lawyers. Juan is a bi-national, and I said bi-national, attorney who helps clients navigate cross-border business, real estate transactions, and just legal strategy between the United States and Mexico. But what makes this conversation different? is Juan's story. There was a time where Juan was waking up at about four, four thirty in the morning, driving across the border, going from meeting to meeting in L.A., Orange County and San Diego, and then heading back to Tijuana and then doing it all again the next day. Now, he's built a thriving practice and is a group leader of fantastic networking group called Provisors all through his relationships. So today we're going to get into what that actually looked like, what he learned along the way and what attorneys don't fully understand about networking and building real business connections. So welcome Juan to UnFuck Your Legal Marketing. Thank you so much, Gary, for having me. I'm very happy to be here. Very, very happy. So glad. let's get right into this. So back in the day, you were waking up at an ungodly hour, crossing the border, hitting multiple meetings in a day. And what was going through your mind when you were going through this process? Yeah. Well, for me, I ⁓ looked at it as ⁓ a big opportunity that I saw that not a lot of people was exploring, which is I knew my market. knew that I wanted to serve the US clients, the US companies or investors who wants to look into Mexico and have some type of business or investment over here. So I knew that that's the market I wanted to go after. So that was my first thought. And then I realized if I wait for that client to come to me, to Mexico, to my office, it might be a little bit too late. So I wanted to go. and be as close as possible to the decision making person or process. And that's approaching either the client directly or approaching their advisors who are based in the States outside of where I practice. So I knew I had to get in the road and start connecting with people. So that was going on in my mind. And because of the logistics for me, was always better to put in a specific day to fill it up with meetings from 7 a.m. in the morning to, you know, it was until like 7 p.m. ⁓ at night because for me it was more, still is more efficient to put as many meetings as possible to make the trip worth or be more productive, right? Yeah. God, just listening to it. brings back memories. And I used to get exhausted just thinking about what your schedule was like. Like it was like, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go. And I'm like, ⁓ my God, does he do a lot of cocaine or other drugs? Cause that's the only way I could probably get through that. how did you, how did you stay consistent with it? Because there's that little thing that we love to talk about, which is burnout. Yeah. And You were so consistent, still are so consistent, which I think is such a wonderful aspect or value that you have and what makes you successful. But how did you keep that consistency of coming up on a regular basis? Well, it was a mix of a mindset of that drive that I still have. And also I was at a point that I was starting to build my book of business, my practice started to get those connections. And it was this sense of urgency, I want to keep building my practice, my firm. I will die doing this and evolving, evolving in some way. And I knew that back then that was my weak spot. I had the technical knowledge, the legal expertise, but I didn't have those relationships that need to be had to build a business. And I find some spots that, that I didn't see many competitors also working those, those areas. So I was like, I want to do this as much as possible to gain that edge with other people. if someone comes up along the way, I will have, you know, a day a month or who knows how many more times in advantage of that. So totally. It was the mix of that. Yeah. Yeah. When you were doing it, thinking back, I mean, it's so, I hear people are like, ⁓ he was an overnight success. ⁓ my gosh. Yeah. I just, he got lucky. And I know there's a lot of people who see you and they go, ⁓ my God, is so successful. Yet when you were first doing it, you're like, okay. Like you were saying, there was an urgency. You were driven. You were strategic. You were going after it, but you didn't always do it the right way. Right. What were some mistakes that. you learned from early on that it was like, if you're an attorney and you're trying to really build relationships, these are some of the things I would recommend not doing, you know, that they were mistakes for you, or they prevented you from building deeper ones or taking care of your time. think that at the beginning, I just kind of was driving in automatic, just, just go in and see what happens. And, and, and we, you and me, talked about this. many years ago and you guide me in a way saying like, need to be conscious on who you connect and who's the right person and how to prepare before a meeting and how to invest that time of thinking who's going to be there, who I want to connect, who I know I'm going to see again. And I just want to reconnect or keep building those relationships and following up. think at the beginning I didn't do that. Yeah. And a little bit of time spent on that. It saves so much more time in the future of being prepared or getting that return on your time. Yeah. So I think that was the first mistake because I just kind of went on the meetings and just being there, it can be done much better. And then following up and we keep building those relationships and being cautious. Not cautious, but more conscious of what I'm going to do today. What I'm going to bring out of these meetings from today. And then also plan. after the meeting, what to do. love that. So at what point did you shift that mindset to go from bunch of activities, keep going, keep going to actually building real relationships? think that the, our most valuable resource that we have is our time. And when I started seeing that, meeting was not the best use of my time. That meeting was that person might be a great individual to connect, but not for me. ⁓ And then, then fear it out that I want to, you know, get the most out of my time and try to be connecting with the right type of people. That's what kind of, it's like losing money, right? Like wasting money on something that you don't use. It's like you need, I really need to focus on what's the best use of my time and how to be prepared. So that is... As you mentioned, waking up early in the morning and going through the whole day, it's not about working hard. It's working smart. Yeah. During the day. Yeah. ⁓ it's totally true. And, and your prep is amazing. mean, just, and this was, you know, early on you were prepping every single day going, okay, I'm going to go to here. I'm going to go to here. I'm to go to here. I'm to go to here. You know, and then obviously, like you were just saying, You get more strategic as you start to go along and say, okay, I w I wasted my time here. need to reevaluate that. Why was this a waste of time? You know, but looking back on that, I think is always a great opportunity for us to do, you know, because we sometimes, like you were saying, you just go into the motions, you get onto that hamster wheel and you just go, go, go, go, go, go. And we don't understand, we doing this right? Are we doing it smart? Are we just doing activities just to do activities, you know, so that we can be busy and. I've always loved how strategic you are in regards to all of the relationships and like you've built your practice on relationships. And I have to say you are one of the best. anybody is listening to this, that doesn't know you like one, I can't believe that too, because I feel like you know fucking everybody. But, but two is you are great at building relationships. And I think one of your superpowers is. Connecting with people really listening to them really being interested in them as a human being which I know sometimes that can be a waste of time because you're like, all right I'm really meeting this person spending time with this person, but it's not gonna really go anywhere But where did you get that from? Did you grow up that way of always being curious about people? Did you just have to learn that and you're like, I just kind of have to muddle through I really hate fucking people So I just have to like, I'm just going to grind through it. Like, what was that all about? I mean, people talk about you and they all have fantastic things to say about you. Not because you're snowflakes, not because that you're plain vanilla, but because you're great at building relationships. Has it always been that way? No, not at all. I mean, I always had this, my personality and a bit of my charisma has something helps me, but that was on a personal level. And, and I always, I don't know, I don't consider myself extrovert, but neither introvert. I'm kind of on and off sometimes, but I do build the relationships that I built on the personal level. They're always true or truthful. And moving to the professional side, it does take time to learn and how to use that and how to keep building. on a different mindset, on a professional mindset. And I have to hand it out to you. I had a lot of guidance from you back when I was starting, back when I was trying to learn a new world, a new country, a new, you know, customary things that I didn't know if those work the same in Mexico or in the U.S. or not. But I think that being honest to yourself, being truthful who you are, and just letting people... connect with you, with people that like you. Nobody's being liked by everybody. And if you're true to yourself and be yourself and authentic, I think that's what I try to stick the most. Be authentic or who am I? Doesn't matter if someone for some reason doesn't like me or doesn't sit well. There's going to be plenty of people that will connect with and share my way of seeing life or seeing my values. And those connections are going to be the ones are more ⁓ ⁓ deep connections and bring one way or another benefits to the business. So you're currently a group leader of a downtown San Diego networking group, right? ⁓ And early on when you were improvisers, was it difficult to stand up and say, I'm a Mexican attorney in front of a bunch of old white dude lawyers that are, you 40, 50, 60 people in a room and you're standing up saying this. Was it intimidating? Was it difficult? Because you talk about being authentic and you truly are, but in the early days when you're just getting to know the community, how difficult was that? Or was that not difficult at all? It was frightening. It was challenging. It was difficult. ⁓ I remember one of the first times that I got into a room. full of, you know, 40 between attorneys and many advisors, very successful individuals. It was intimidating. It was, it was intimidating. And, and from many, from my part on, on the language barrier, the cultural things, try to understand. But I'm going back to, to those talks that we had before getting someone to guide you or support you, or at least give you that words of affirmation of you got this, I mean go and take a shot at it. It really went a long way and helped me. ⁓ And I remember thinking when I'm going to stop being nervous. Right? Is this, this is everything go away? And it did. And sometimes I still get that. Of course you do. You're human. Yeah. And I don't mind getting nervous because now and because of Things I try to, whenever I get nervous, I always say like, this is not nervous, this is excitement. This is, I'm nervous because something exciting is about to happen. Or may happen, right? So, and that fades off eventually, but I remember being very intimidated in front of a group of people that, but you know what, like any other thing you have to learn to do, you get over it. You get, yeah. more confidence and, eventually be better at it. What's your catchphrase? What's your tagline? I always say that I'm the one you need. you haven't, if you needed any legal advice in Mexico, I'm the one you need. So that actually helped me a lot as well. I was just going to ask you that. Did that help you? Because I remember the very first meeting that I was in that you were in. Didn't know you at all. All of a this young cat stands up and you said that and the entire room was roaring laughing. They were like, I thought it was brilliant on your part because like, I'm like, well, this is going to make him stand out, you know, because it like, you know, I don't like taglines. I really don't. There's only a few that I really do like. Yours is one of the top ones. And, and it's not because it's like, ⁓ it's, you know, it's, it's clever or it's kitschy. It's real. Right. And, but it also puts a little bit of a sense of humor in there and utilizing the language, the difference in language and also your name sounds really familiar to one, you know, how did you come up with that? And was that on purpose to kind of diffuse the room and help you out to increase your confidence? Yeah, this is, ⁓ this also goes back from the very beginning and approaching and get people that have done this for many, many years and I'm trying to learn from them. And I remember having a conversation with other attorney and he told me, you need to figure out how people think of you when they think of Mexico. Yeah. Think about that. How are you going to manage to do that? And I didn't know. And I was like, after that ⁓ conversation, I was like, how am I going to do that? I mean, I just, didn't know. And I came up with that tagline and I was still hesitating for me as well. was too corny. I don't know if I can pull that off. I don't know if it's going to work or not. We'll see what happens. in one meeting I was about to introduce myself and, thankfully enough, another friend of mine gave me a shout out and thanked me for traveling a couple of hours to go to that meeting in LA. And, and he introduced me. And then I was like, wait, now what I want to say, he's, said everything that I was about to say. And that was my plan. Let's go with the one you need. Let's see, you know, because I just didn't know what else to say. Yeah. And I did. It was catchy. It was, it worked. And ever since I've been, I've been in random places and people had, ⁓ shouted me like the one you need, how are you? ⁓ That's a good one, right? That happened with my parents in LA after a Lakers game. We were just having dinner and other people just approached me and said like, Juan, how's it going? I want you to meet my husband. And I was like, okay, cool. Yeah. How are you? And we had like this brief conversation and I sat down and my parents were like, what was that? What just happened? So, know, I explained that and thankfully it's been helpful. keeps me in people's minds, makes me memorable in a way. ⁓ So yeah, think that's something that it's not as formal as people may see in a professional area, but for me has worked quite well. Yeah. And it goes with your personality. And I love the fact that you shared how You finally mustered up the courage to do it because we've all been there. We're like, I'm going to try this out. It sounds really great. But then when push comes to shove and we actually need to perform. Fuck that. I'm just going to do what's safe. Like, I'm just going to do a safe. then you kick yourself afterwards going, why didn't I do that? And sometimes when we're thrust into it, okay, what the hell else am I going to, let's just do it. And you go, wow, that landed really well. This is actually kind of cool. And then the fact that you've stayed consistent with it, I think is brilliant, you know, on your part. So kudos to you. Now, when you were networking like crazy, there's definitely a difference between the act of networking and building relationships, actual relationships with people. When did that shift happen? How did you make that shift going from just network, network, network to I'm actually going to build these relationships while I'm networking. Networking is going to be a part of that. But how is that shift for you? Just again, because you're so great at relationships, but instead of just going through the process of just going, I'm actually building a relationship. And I think also this, I have to give credit to you, Gary, once you told me like, you need to figure it out. how you can help others. mean, if you're gonna get that relationship that help your way, if people's gonna think of your way, you need to focus on how to help others and maybe sending them business, it may be in many ways and kind of those conversations open up my mind on saying like, there's many ways that I can help. And I try to pass that advice forward as often as I can to other people. Like you're not getting business or you're not getting more or deeper connections if you don't give in any way. And as you mentioned, if you try to send someone an article that may help them and just say hi or connect them with other people, that also I did a lot. Like when I'm listening to other individuals and what they do and exactly understanding who they help. Yeah. And making that connection, maybe not to their client, but maybe I will connect it with you that you may, you know, bring them some business. And that's, that's now maybe in my nature and automatically I'm listening to someone and in the back of my mind, I'm thinking, okay, let me, I'm going to introduce you A with B and now I'll do this or I'll help you with, with however I can. Because at the end of the day, it's something like, like karma and it's in my business model. If I help you in some way, it's going to come back. I don't know how, I don't know when, but it's going to come back. So helping other people the best that I can or in my abilities, that always goes a long way. Yeah. Yeah. And you're so great at that. You're always thinking of people. Like I remember last year you were in Phoenix and you're like, okay, like who can I help? Like, and you were there just to pick up a freaking bike. I'm like, you're coming out all the way to Phoenix just to pick up a bike. You're like, yeah. And at the same time, I'm going to go to a provisor meeting. I want to hook up for coffee, like a bunch of people, who can I help? And I do think that this is, a really important point for our listeners to have is that you are giving without expecting to receive from that individual. Right. And you have this, I want to give, want to give, want to give, want to give, knowing that as you said, karma comes back and you will get it from somewhere else. That's such an important part that I really want our listeners to understand because I find there's too many times attorneys are like, I didn't get anything back from them. Like I referred them a client. I haven't heard anything. They're dead to me now. Or I introduced them to somebody and they haven't done anything. They're dead to me. And it's like, takes time to build a relationship. But at the same time, if you are truly going to give just out of the goodness of your heart, understanding that it will eventually help you out because, you know, we are definitely here to make money. at the same time, you're like, I just constantly am giving, giving, giving, giving. It's such an important element that I think a lot of attorneys struggle with because they want that quid pro quo. You do for me, I'm going to do for you. You know, kind of thing and it just doesn't work, you know, unfortunately. So, but the other thing is in regards to building relationships and you had brought this up early on is time. I think a lot of listeners are listening to this and going, okay, wait a second. He got up at four o'clock in the fricking morning. He went all the way to seven o'clock at night. Full day of just networking, networking, networking. That's a lot of time. That's zero billable hours. ⁓ How did you balance that out ⁓ of having the billable hour, so you're making money, and at the same time, you're building relationships that will allow you to get in more billable hours in the future? So how did you balance that complete out? mean, I think we always have to keep in mind that what goes first, right? Like the egg of the chicken, right? And we need to have a balance with that. ⁓ And, and as any other individual that's starting with their own practice, we all know that at the beginning we are the receptionist, the attorney, the manager, the business development, the person who's going to be in charge of keeping things clean and in order in that office. And it was just keeping in mind that I was planting seeds along the way and just waiting. And it was tough at the beginning, waiting to, To get that, to get that return on your time or networking. But we need to set up time to do that in our agenda and block that time and allocate it to that. Because at the beginning, I always push it somewhere else and I say like, I have to finish my work. And I then realized that a month passed by and I didn't do anything. having a system of blocking times and allocating that for this specific purpose. It really helped me achieve that. and, and, and it's sometimes it's just, we need to push it through and, and until you're there to scale and have a team. I mean, there was a tough times that I have to do it all and I have to come back and still have to draft a contract and send it early in the morning and keep going forward. Now, I mean, I have a team and I developed, but, but at some point I had to. manage my time. And that's why I always think that the best use of my time, I was really aware on getting it because of I had to network, do a bunch of stuff. It's just a balance, but also keeping in mind that you're fishing, you're fishing, you're waiting for the fish to bite, know? So, so, so yeah, I mean, it's just keeping that So what advice would you give to a listener who has done this, some of this stuff before and They're down on themselves. They're a little frustrated. And they're like, ⁓ God, does this actually work? Like we all come across those moments, right? Where it's like, I'm spending a shitload of time on this. Is this actually working? Maybe I'm not the right person for this. Maybe I shouldn't be a networker. Maybe I'm, you know, I'm just a doer, you know, kind of thing. Who am I to be, you know, a founding partner of a firm? Like, I'm just going to be, just be a great attorney, which there's nothing wrong with that. But what advice would you give somebody? that you gave to yourself when you had a tough month, a tough quarter, a tough year where it's like, okay, got to stay in it. Got to stay focused, got to stay consistent. How did you overcome that? I think first that we need to, or the three things that I will suggest in here, I will repeat myself. First will be be authentic. Yeah. Be authentic. Second, understand your audience and really Learn how to communicate what you do and how you can help specific and clear about it. I remember also you and me having those conversations of the narrower you can make it, the better. Yeah. In my scene, ⁓ my scene, not natural, like, no, I can do so much, so many things. I remember you telling me, no, no, no, no, focus, be specific and then people will come for other things. And that really helped. Yeah. This is exactly how could I help in this specific scenario and people will remember you. Yeah. The third one is half of the battle is showing up. Half of the work is just showing up. And for me, now that I was tired and I maybe was not feeling that good on going out and driving it. And, ⁓ but I had meetings where I just came to the meeting and someone looked at me and said, like, Hey, I know you. I good to see you because come to my office tomorrow. have something for you. And I was how now to show up? You know, I was like, perfect. Yeah. Why not? And I remember like, what if I just, just not make it to this because I was too tired or something. You never know that that kept me pushing forward. It does take time. It is something that it's not. I've felt in that situation many times like, is this worth? I'm just wasting my time. But in my opinion, after a couple of years, eventually something clicked and just skyrocketed. And that's where I was. And then I was like, yeah, I think that this is working. And ever since, like, I know the formula. I know that being disciplined and authentic and explaining. as the best as I can what I do, it's gonna pay out. Now I have no doubt about that. I just had to pay the price. I just had to pay my dues on building that and building networks. It takes time. But now I have no question that if it worked for me, if it worked for someone, an outsider, if it worked for someone who went into different market and different people, but I was sure that that's what I needed to be, it will work for... Everybody. I I always see that for the people that doesn't work, the people that they don't put the discipline on that maybe. Yeah. No, it's brilliant. mean, Juan, you have given us a treasure trove of stuff. I mean, from planting seeds, making sure you block that freaking time out. If it's important, block it out, not just for meetings, but also for follow-up. I love how you expressed how authentic you were because You're one of the most authentic individuals that I know and you're true to it. You don't skirt around it. You're like, this is me exactly who I am. But you also really do understand your audience. Your messaging is extremely clear. And I think that that's a really important part is to have clear messaging, have that target market, have the sense of urgency so that you can stay as consistent. As you've been, you know, so that you can gain that edge. can be strategic. can have great followup, evaluate your time. There's a shitload of, of so many good nuggets on this. cannot tell you how much I appreciate this. Like our listeners are going to get a ton out of your experience. mean, and this is really your experience. This is the blood, sweat and tears that you put into it and still do, you know, because now your priorities are a little different. Now you're married. You got kids. It's like, I mean, you're a totally different Juan than the one that I remember when I was like, ⁓ he's such a little kid, you know, never said that. But I mean, but you're, even though your life changes, you still are evolving, you know, and, and I love your resolve on this. And, and I agree with you. If you can do it, anybody can do it. They really can, you know, because you're not a loud individual. You're not an extrovert. You're more of an ambivert, you know, that person that, you know, can turn it on if you want and turn it off if you don't want it, you know, kind of thing. And, ⁓ and I just cannot tell you how much I appreciate you spending some time on this and, and just being a dear friend because what you're doing for your clients, for your network is amazing. And yes, people talk about you all the time. Most of the time I'm trying to get them to talk shit about you, but you're, you're like way too nice that nobody wants to talk shit about you. I'm like, Come on! Juan's a degenerate. They're like, no, he's not. No, he's not. That feeling is mutual. That feeling is mutual. That's bullshit. Everybody loves to shit about I've got a thing to you. Yeah, but thank you. And if anybody has any cross-border, reach out to Juan. I'm going to put in all of his contact information into the show notes because if he says it... You're not going to listen to it. It's right there. You can just click on it and reach out to him. Juan is not only a great guy, but he's a brilliant attorney. And especially if you are really trying to do that cross border thing where you're understanding, is this going to be okay for me down in Mexico or for one of my clients that wants to open up a factory down there or wants to buy a property down there or anything in between? Juan's the guy. Juan is the guy, he's the Juan. So thank you, Juan. I really appreciate you coming on this and just being a dear friend of mine. Thank you, Gary. Thank you so much for the invitation. I was very happy when I got your invitation. I'm very happy to be here. just to close this out, mean, always get together with people like Gary, like myself or others that done this in the past. I wouldn't be here if I hadn't had those amazing... from you and conversations and learning from others. This is like any other thing that we need to learn to do. Nobody teaches us how to network. Nobody teaches how to sell. We are great, our craft, but law school to me never taught me how to do this. And there's people that they know how to do this. They know how to teach this. And I have to give a lot of credit to you. And I have that guidance, that type of that gift from the universe, from God, from all of it. I remember someone telling me that you need to talk to Gary. I also didn't know who you were. I was like, all right. Who is this Gary character? I don't have nothing to lose. And in this things that I've ever done, best things that I've ever done, hands down. Now, and I appreciate the kind words. And at the same time, you're the one who did the work and that's where the rubber meets the road. And so it's taking all of that in and I appreciate you. Very, very much. Yeah. All right. If you need anything in Mexico, Juan's the guy. And thanks again, Juan. Talk soon. That's it for today's episode of unfuck your legal marketing. If you got a spark of inspiration, learned something new, or at least got a good laugh, make sure to follow, rate, and share this with someone who needs to hear it. Thanks for hanging out with me, and remember, the best marketing is the one that actually sounds like you. See you next time.