Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / EXCLUSIVE: KILLER'S MARRIED GIRLFRIEND HACKS VANESSA GUILLEN DEAD BODY WITH MACHETE, BURNS BODY.

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EXCLUSIVE: KILLER'S MARRIED GIRLFRIEND HACKS VANESSA GUILLEN DEAD BODY WITH MACHETE, BURNS BODY. · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: The body of this beautiful girl, Vanessa Gain just twenty
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: years old. Family. We had hoped that we had prayed,
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: but the search has ended. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: The search has ended, and now more questions than answers
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: as we learn her murder could totally have been prevented,
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: and at this hour we learn the horrific details of
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: what this girl lived through before she was murdered and
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: buried in a vault of cement. I'm Nancy Grace. This
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Take
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: a listen to this. People have been searching endlessly in
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: this area for Private First Class Vanessa Gillon now new
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: Today officials as well as the Ghee family are waiting
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: on an autopsy report to confirm identification of those remains.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: The head of Equisearch, the team responsible for locating the
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: remains here, say that they found them yesterday in a
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: shallow grave, CODC, very close to where they've been searching
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: all alta. They were in Washington, DC when they got
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: the news that left them heartbroken. Almost all remains have
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: been found at the same location that the investigation continues. Here.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: You are hearing our friends there at Fox forty four
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: News That was Kendall Green reporting on the discovery of
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: her body. But with me, the man who searched Anne
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: helped find Vanessa, Tim Miller, our friend crime victim. Also
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: with me, doctor Bethany Marshall, renowned psycho analyst, joining me
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: out of Beveral University, author of Blood Beneath My Fate
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: on Amazon, Joseph Scott Morgan, Death Investigator special guest, Natalie Kawan,
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: the attorney for Vanessa's family. But right now to Olivia
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: leveda k xx VTV reporter who's been on the case
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: from the very beginning. Olivia, it just seems to get
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: worse because now we are learning about all the sex
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: harassment this young girl went through but didn't reap more.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: Do we know about the way her body was found? Olivia?
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: You know we've been covering this story since Vanessa went missing,
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: and to learn yesterday that her body, the body was
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: found in a shallow grave with cement and rocks and
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: dirt poured over it. To anyone a cousin and aunt
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: of course a mom to think that this freshly mixed
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: cement was poured over her body, as Tim Miller described
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: for us to Natalie Kawan, joining us right now, who
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: has been with Vanessa's family throughout this horrible ordeal, And Natalie,
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: I just driving his vehicle from one search spot to
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: the next and gets a phone call from the family
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: and they're saying, well, what what what? We don't know anything,
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: what happened? And what more do we know? Right now? Natalie,
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: horrible horrible details emerging about Vanessa's brutal death. And that's
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: a light stomach. Do not listen to this if you
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: want me to go into the details, Nancy, Well, I
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: gotta tell you something, Natalie. I've been to a lot
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: of murder scenes and attended a lot of autopsies, but
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: it hits me hard every time I hear the details
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: because I look at Vanessa and sister Ira tells us
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: loving and to hear how she was murdered. But you
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: know what, as I tell Joy's Natalie, we cannot turn
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: away from the truth. We cannot what happened. So yesterday,
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: after our press conference, we received a phone call from
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: the CIA telling us that the top agent they're all
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: in DC. They want to meet with us at four pm,
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: um CD guy in DC. It was two others. It
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: was about four or five men that wanted to meet
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: with us and speak to us. UM. They said, we
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: heard what you said. We know you're doing these press conferences,
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: and we just said, okay, it's about time. UM. And
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: they had the two other agents that were involved in
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: this in this UM investigation also available by Skype on
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: that laptop. We go and we met at said JW. Marriott.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: I got an executive office space fill twenty second. Vanessa
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: did go to work UM. Aaron Robinson met her in
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: the armory room and Aaron said was actually harassing her.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: She goes into the armory room to UM do her
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: world pictures of Sicily his girlfriend information background information. Cecially
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: is married to a former soldier. So Vanessa said, we're
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: a carried person. You know. It's not only wrong, but
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: it's also against the military rules. It's not right. I'm
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: going I have to report it. He said, no, you're not.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: You're not going to ruin my career. He said. He
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: grabbed the first thing he could find, and that was
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: a hammer, and started bludgeoning her head over and over.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: She wasn't getting knocked down quick enough, so he kept
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: the bludgeoning, bludgeoning, bludgeoning her head skull in the armory room.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: The whole place was silvered blood. He took her body
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: and put it in I want to say pelican briefields.
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: He wheeled it out. He put it on the side
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: of the armory room. He went home. Six pm comes around,
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: He enters the base. He takes her body. He picks
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: it to that lake or the river, puts it there,
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: and decides he can't do this by himself. He can't
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: you bury her. He needs help. He caused his girlfriend,
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: the sfily girl, the one who is and he calls her.
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: He said, get in the car. She gets in the
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: car and he tells her, I have Vanessa's body in
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: a pelican grief at the lake. I need your help
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: to bury her. They go to the to the river,
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: say go to the river. They first try to set
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: her light her body on fire. They try to burn
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: her body. They can't burn her body. They're having a
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: hard time burning her body. Then they decide to take
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: the machete out and start machetting, dismembering her whole body.
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: They try to destroy it, try to put it in
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: different places, bury it. They use some kind of quick
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: quick quick dry, some kind of stemm it um a product,
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: and try to. They do a shallow grave, put the
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: sim on it, and they get rid of basically the evidence.
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: They threw the machete out the window. By the way,
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: with her phone they threw they destroyed her phone and
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: threw out the window. They threw the hammer out the
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: window when they're driving. This is what they're saying, and
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: they go about their business. Ironically. This all happened between
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: one and four, you know, about minutes to four in
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: the morning when they were burning her body and dismembering
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: her body with a machete. That time was when and
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: that's as sister Myra was arriving at the base. While
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: she's looking for her sister, they are dismembering her body.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: Just really disgusting and spur I mean, I cried just
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: listening to this whole story. They tell us that he
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: did this crime between ten twenty three, ten thirty and
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: eleven thirteen in the room, which makes no sense. Has
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: and the rebuttal over and he killed and cleans up
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: the whole crime scene in forty three minutes. I asked
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: questions as to how can no one have seen this
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: in the video cameras, How can no one has heard
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: her screaming in the armory room when he was bludgeoning her. Um.
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: Then let's go go fast forward all this evidence, the statements,
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: the witnesses. You know, someone did see her him struggling
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: to take that um that pelican brief to his car.
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: These people came forward and spoke about it. Some people
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: talked about you know, seeing him all that stuff, um,
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: but they still did not They still did not get
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: a warrant for his arrest or anything. They continued, I
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: could want to say to use conformatory bias, so couldn't
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: be him. He had a polygrapher, they said, the best
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: polygrapher out there, who refused to get polygraph. But the
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: polygrapher then interviewed him and said, he's absolutely lying, going
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: to his own suicide when he was seeing kept them
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: on the base. They were able to bring charges of
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: or not charges, but keep him on the base. With
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: the COVID stuff. They were able to tell him that
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: he should stay on the base because he can't go
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: in and out with COVID, and that he was going
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: to be hit with an affair kind of like you know,
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: the cactivation for capone. They don't want to come after
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: him for the murder they went to do the fair thing.
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: When they held him back, they said, you can't leave,
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: You can't leave the base. How did this happen, By
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: the way, all these holes in this case. He said
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: he's going to the other room. They said, you're not
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: allowed to leave this room, and somehow he walked out,
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: went and escaped the base. They went he ran on foot.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: I understand two hours later they were able to find him.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: And how he got a gun again between that time,
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: how he even had a gun, you know, they say
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: it was his own personal gun. But that's when they
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: came up to him and he shot himself before they
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: could arrest him. So I got more information if you
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: want to ask me questions. I mean, I'm sure everybody's
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: in shock right now because I'm film shocked. It's so
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: much information I could hardly take it in. No, no,
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: don't be because this is the truth and he could
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: have been brought to justice had the army acted. And
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: I find it very very difficult to believe that this guy,
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: who I understand is one of the same guys that
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: sex harassed her, was never brought to justice. Now, cheating
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: with a married woman married to a former officer, a
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: former military person, and they have a polygrapher saying he's lying.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: They have witnesses stating they saw him struggling with the
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: pelican case to put it in a car. I wouldn't
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: be surprised if he's not the one that called her
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: into work that day. They say that wasn't And this
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: is where I believe that there's some cover up here,
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: because they say it wasn't him. And they said that
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: the persons that saw the three NCOs that saw her
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: around one o'clock PM then changed her story to eleven
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: thirty am. That's why they were having confusion as to
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: her whereabouts in the parking lot. It seemed like there
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: were so many people covering up the roommate. By the way,
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: I understand his roommate maybe hit with some charges for
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: lying because they said he was there that night. But
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: this is what's the most terrible thing. That girl sicily
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: she dismembered a US soldier's body. She is this is
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: what isis does to our soldiers. They dismember our bodies.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: She did this. She shouldn't be hit with terrorists. I
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: cannot believe this woman. She hacked apart a p FC,
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: a female. She stood over a bonfire, cackling like a witch.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: And in that bonfire is the remains of Vanessa gim
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: Tim Miller joining me from Texas Equisearch, who led the
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: search to find Vanessa at the very beginning when she
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: went missing. Tim, what we are now learning from the
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: Army CID now they want to have a meeting with
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: the family's lawyer, not during all the families suffering. Now
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: they suddenly call a high level meeting. Okay, you know what,
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: I'm not impressed, and my dad was in the military.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: I am not impressed one bit. But what we're hearing
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: from Army CID through the family lawyer, Natalie Kawan, fits
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: with every single thing you told us. Tim Miller describe, Well,
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: you know what, Nancy, I normally don't put out information
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: that I know on an investigation like this, but I
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: felt thought there was a cover up. I know, I'm
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: the most hated person in what the military right now
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: because I said all this stuff. That's a reason I
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: said all this stuff was hopefully somebody would start talking
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: and get out there. And I knew, Nancy, they minute
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: that we found that burn pile and that Pelican case,
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: that it had something to do with it, and I
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: can tell you this or effect. This CID investigator that
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: was out there with us when we found that didn't
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: think it had any revalence to the case. We had
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: to push and push and push him, and he said, well,
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: the case didn't looked like that. And one of our
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: people actually googled the Pelican case and showed him the
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: picture before he was willing to even go to the
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: site to look at it. I just don't understand why.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: It's like pulling a tooth to Olivia Leveda k xx VTV,
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: it's like holding the Army down, sitting on their chest
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: and pulling their teeth pliers to get them to do anything. Why, Olivia,
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: you know what? Nancy? I wish I could answer that question,
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: but I can tell you this. I can count on hands, fingers, toes, etc.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: The amount of times that we have reached out asking questions,
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: receiving press releases, and it's not till today that the
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: Army has even scheduled a formal press conference. It's frustrating
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: crime stories with Nancy Grace. I have a hard time
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: believing back to you to you know what. Let me
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: go to dtor Bethany Marshall on this like Kallen's joining
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: side of Beverly Hills. I found it really hard to
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: believe that this coat. Why was Vanessa called in that day?
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: I have a theory, and I find it hard to
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: believe that nobody else knew she was there except her shower.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: I have a theory. I think Aaron Robinson was a
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: bad actor for a long long time. I think the
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: military knew that he was sexually harassing women. I do
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: not think that Vanessa was the only victim. I think
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: there are people very high up. There's a powerful group
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: psychology where they started protecting their own months ago. So
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: in order to how the family be transparent bring Aaron
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: to justice, they would have to point a finger back
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: at themselves and acknowledge that there was mounting evidence that
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: he was harassing women on the base the fact that
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: he was having an affair with Cecily Aguilera, a woman
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: who hacked up Vanessa's body. That doesn't just happen in
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: an hour, a day, or three weeks or three months.
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: These kinds of malevolent activities they build up over months
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: and years. So I think that the military is the
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: reason you said it was like getting the truth is
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: like sitting on their chest and kind of beating it
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: out of them is because in them telling the family
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: and being transparent, they have to acknowledge that they are
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: complicit in Vanessa's death. They looked the other way. We
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: have to think about group psychology when the higher ups
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: know that one of their own is sexually harassing, is
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: having affairs, is mistreating women on the base, and they
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: do nothing, and all of a sudden he bludgends her
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: with a hammer. You know, Natalie Kuama is right. You
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: cannot clean up crime scene in forty three minutes. Those men,
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: those higher ups walked into the armory. They saw blood
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: all over the place and it was like, rut row,
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: what are we going to do now? They've been getting
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: their facts in order for a long long time. Nancy,
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: we are just pulling on a small piece of thread. Today.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: You are going to keep pulling and pulling and pulling
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: on this show. And Natalie, You're going to keep pulling
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: and so much more is going to come out. Just
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: got Morgan, Professor forensics, Jacksonall State University, and author. Take
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: a listen to what I'm asking Natalie, okay, because I
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: want you to analyze it. Natalie Kawan. I'm this is
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: why I keep asking this, Why was she called in?
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: Because in my mind, Natalie, of course you're practicing lawyer,
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: Natalie Kawan, the lawyer for the Vanessagian family. There are
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: no coincidences in criminal law typically, so I find it
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: really odd and quite the coincidence that she gets called
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: in by a superior and then somehow she ends up
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: alone in the armory with her killer, Aaron Robinson. He
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: bludgeons her dead. The place is covered, it's a blood bass.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: She's covered, everything's covered in blood. And he somehow manages
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: to secrete her body into a pelican case in one
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: of those big black plastic rough and tough plastic containers
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: and leaves it there for all these hours, and nobody
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: sees anything. Nobody knows. This is a small munition's repair armory. Okay,
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: it's a workroom. She's in. It's big, she's in there.
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: Nobody sees a thing, Nobody sees. All the blood hours pass,
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: he goes home, he gets cleaned up, he goes and
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: buys all this quick dry cement and tarps or everything
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: he needed. He comes back what what what? Nobody saw anything? Who?
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: And the hay called her in and why Natalie, Yeah,
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: you know who called her in? They say that it
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: was I gotta look at my notes again, But there
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: was someone else. They said that, And my argument is
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: this was premeditated. There's no way, because I said, how
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: did he get towns? Are they inside? I know I've
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: been in the armory room. There's no towels in there,
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: there's no cleaning solutions in there. How did he? Oh,
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: he went down across the building. They've made it up obviously,
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: But I said, they said, you're right, there's no towels.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: And I said, so he must have had to go
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: out and got them or brought them in with him,
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: which is premeditated. But there's no way he could have
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: done that for three minutes. Nancy, When I tell you
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: you're you're an attorney, there's so many holes. How did
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: you not? They've never ever subpoened her text messages. I said,
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: I thought you said you set there's incompetency, the conformatory bias,
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: the ways that say it did this investigation, they should
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: all be terminated. They are all part of this problem. Well,
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: I think it's more than that, Natalie Kawam, because the
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: reason I keep asking who called her in because did
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: they call her in because Aaron Robinson wanted them to
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: or suggested to? Did she really have anything she had
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: to do that day? And then suddenly when she goes missing,
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: Robinson's superior didn't say, hey, why did you want her
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: called in? I mean, where was the oversight? Where was
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: the supervision? To Joe Scott Morgan, what I'm getting at
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: is this is bigger than just Aaron Robinson and his
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: married girlfriend, Cecily Aguilera. It's bigger than that. And I
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: swear to Holy God in Heaven, I'm not letting this loose.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: I am not letting it not the Army's worried about me,
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: but I can tell you this much, I am not
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: letting this loose. How could all this happen? You were
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: in the military, Joseph Scott Morgan. What nobody goes in
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: the armory and the blood's lying there, nobody sees anything,
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: nobody smells anything, nobody hears anything, that cameras don't work.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: How did all of that happen? Joe Scott, Well, it's
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: lack of ability. Nancy. If this guy is what's referred
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: to as like her ncoic, which is her non commissioned
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: officer in charge, which I suspect is the case. They
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: worked in kind of a sequestered area anyway, because there's
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: very few people that have direct access to arms rooms
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: most of the time. Now I understand this is a
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: repair area, but you've also got weapons in there that
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: they all have access to, so that would have facilitated
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: him having time with her. I think what's key is
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: what you were saying, who drew her in? Was it him?
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: Was he actually her immediate supervisor? You know, because this
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: is an ongoing thing with weapons. You know, they're taking
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: them out in the field, they're getting dirty, they're getting broken.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: You have to bring them back into this location in
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: order to facilitate the repair of them. And I've heard
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: people say she came in to do her work, and
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: she would you have to you know, kind of like that,
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: you know the old scene from the Lucy Show where
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: they're trying to put the chocolates, you know, in their
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: dress and they're eating them. With these kinds of units
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: in the army, it's always stacking up. You have to
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: have a schedule that you have to stay too. So
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: did they do that as a premise to get her
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: there to come in. Remember she didn't show up. She
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: showed up in like workout clothes. And I understand. I've
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: heard some people say that that was acceptable. It never
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: was when I was in. You had to show up
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: in the uniform of the day, and so I found
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: that a little suspicious as well. You know, she's like
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: in jogging pants, she's got a T shirt on, joggers on.
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: So that's kind of odd to me. What's key, though,
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: here is the copious and I mean volumes of blood
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: that would have issued forth from this. As Natalie mentioned
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: a moment ago, a hammer was you in order to
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: facilitate her death. In other words, she was beaten to
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: death with this thing, and it creates such a volume
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: of blood, not just from blood dripping from her head,
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: but we begin to think about things like cast off patterns,
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: where Nancy, if people at home will just think about
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: taking a paint brush and dipping it into a paint
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: bucket and slinging it over their shoulder. If that happens,
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: you're gonna get blood all over, you know, all over
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: the ceiling. You'll get it on the walls, the adjacent walls,
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: It'll be dripping off on the floor or the individual
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: that has done this. I've worked many hammer attacks, Nancy,
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: and I can tell you that the person that engages
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: in this is also going to be covered with blood,
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: So how does he go about disguising that as well.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: I'm real curious about the timeline here. No, in answer
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: to Natalie's question, there is no way, no way under
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: heaven that this guy could have cleaned up that room
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: in forty three minutes so that no one would would
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: have noticed. You'd have to have a number of cleaning supplies.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: And even after say you do the initial cleaning, you've
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: still got to deal with the body. That means a
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: body has to be wrapped up because she's got this
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: gaping injury to her skull, so the head will have
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: to be wrapped. You'll have to get the body into
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: a bag or something. Right, That is a major problem.
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: So there are a lot of holes in this end.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: I got another issue. I don't believe it went down
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: anything like Natalie Kawam was told by Army CID. I
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: do not believe that Vanessa Game comes in, grabs the
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: killer's phone and goes, oh, here's a picture of Cecily Agilea.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: You're seeing a married woman I'm going to report you
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: in oh. I think that she that he told her
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: she could not report him for sex harassment, and that
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: she's that nobody would believe her, and that she said, well,
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: I bet they'll believe about your affair with Cecily Aguilera,
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: and that all hell broke loose. That's what happened. She
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: didn't grab his phone and instigate this whole thing. She
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: was trying to get away from him. You know, Tim Miller,
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: Texas Equisearch, what do you make based on what you
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: saw when Vanessa's body found in that shallow grave. They
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: poured quick cement onto her skin to hide her. You
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: stated that they were searching in other areas, and now
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: we know why because they hacked her up with a
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: machette and buried parts of her body in different places. What,
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: if anything, did you see, Tim Miller, Texas Equisearch. They
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: would support that theory. Well, again, what we've seen when
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: we first found the burn pile and the partial lead
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: off the Pelican case, we knew and nancyll want to
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: say this, these are on civilized animals. Nancy, we don't
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: even go to this extent when we are fighting our
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: enemies in the war. It's just unthinkable. I mean, I
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: don't have words. We knew. We knew immediately something terrible,
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: terrible happened at that burn site, and again or the
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: investigator not to be interested in the beginning. When we
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: found it, we just all shook our head and said,
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: what the hell's the matter with him? You know, the
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: fact that they would go to all this trouble. I
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: could just see these two in the night. It's like
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: double double boiled trouble, standing over a fire pit trying
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: to burn Vanessa's body, dismembered, hacked up. The image of
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: that Natalie Kawam is overwhelming. This girl did nothing wrong, Natalie.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: And you know, I got to say one of the
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: other things that really broke my heart. When they were
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: trying to figure out what it was her body or not,
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: they couldn't. I ask some mind to use your predential
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: records her mouth, and they said that he bludgeoned her
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: head so badly did and couldn't even get a face
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: in one part. Was this all broken and shatters? I mean,
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: I just think of what that girl suffered just because
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: she was sexually harassed and was afraid. And this is
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: another thing, man, So think of it. I said to them,
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: how was there? I know you guys account for your
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: hammers and everything. I done my research. Who counted for
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: that hammer that was missing? And they said, he admitted
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: that he lost the hammer. He took the hammer out
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: and lost it, and they let him go. I said,
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: wait a second, when somebody loses something or something's missing,
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: they're accountable. Did they punish him? Did they reprimand him
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: because that's protocol? And they said no. And I said, so,
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: Matt of hammer's missing and the soldier's missing, and there's
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: a little one common denominator that had access to both
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: and that's the one person. And you guys still did
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: not think why is the hammer and a girl missing
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: at the same time? And then ready for this, they
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: did the checks. I said, how can you now have
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: not noticed that she was gone that three pm four
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: pm check? They said that the person who did the
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: check cleared. I said, wait a second, I feel like
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: there's a cover up. There's a bunch of guys here
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: as a boys network, a bunch of guys helping each other,
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: covering up because you don't go this long with all
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: this obvious evidence. And they said that the guy who
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: did the check said, oh, yeah, I didn't. I didn't
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: check her. I said she was there, but I didn't.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: And I said, well, this obviously makes me suspect about him.
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: And they said, oh no, no, no. He admitted that
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: he always is sloppy. He doesn't do checks right. He
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: would be surprised at someone in Vegas and he wouldn't
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: know that. And I said, and you kept that as
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: an answer. Do you know why? I guys say it
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: was a complete disregard for the truth is this was mishandled.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: The other thing is this Natalie Kawam, which might be
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: a wonderful thing to add into I hope a lawsuit
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: that you're going to file. But Natalie Kawam, attorney for
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: Vanessa Gean's family. She's missing, the hammer's missing. They know
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: she was called in on her day off. They don't
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: search the area in the armory for blood evidence or
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: any other evidence. I mean at four thirty when she didn't,
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: when they didn't cut mustard, she wasn't there. They didn't
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: look for her. I mean, this is contrary to everything
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: we know to be true about the military, or think
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: we know. Let me understand something that you said, Natalie Kawam.
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: Her head was bludgeoned so badly. I know her skull
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: was shattered. What did you say about the dentist trying
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: to identify her by teeth X ray? That's correct. They
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: couldn't get her or dental cavity. Everything was bludgeons in
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: her face, in her skull that they couldn't even use
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: her face for her skull for any kind of bone
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: or recognition. They said they found her hair though, but
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: her face was so bludgeoned that her they couldnt get
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: the dental records or do that kind of confirmation of
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: on top two of her face. It's just disgusting. Its
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: hainous that the heinous crime is her family jesting all
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: of this information. Nancy. I hate to say this that
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: they haven't told the mother. They won't tell her mom.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: Her mom. This has been bedridden for not a couple
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: of days. When I arrived, I didn't tell you the
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: guy assist. But when I arrived DC. The family arrived
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: to DC two days ago. That was when they found
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: her body. They didn't tell the mother. But ironically, when
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: they found her, I went to their hotels to talk
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: to them and tell them, and the mother was outside
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: with paramedics and an ambulance and everything was out front
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: of the Jacob Maria and I thought, oh God, he
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: don't let this see the family, And of course it was.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: The mother was showing signs of a heart attack and everything.
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: She said, something's wrong, something wrong, and they didn't tell her.
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: It still won't tell her that they found her body.
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: She knew, she said, something doesn't feel right. She has
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: been in bed for the last couple of days while
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: we have been going through this. I can't imagine what's
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: going to happen when she finds out they don't want
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: to tell her, you know, Doctor Bethany Marshall. To this day,
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: I still have night terrors and nightmares about my fiance's murder.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: That was a long time ago. I just I can't
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: even imagine what this family is going through. And to
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: also know that the army failed her in such a
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: horrible way, Nancy, and the fact that it's so there's
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: so many unknowns. As I've said so many times before,
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: in the face of the unknown, we read into it
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: are worse possible fears and anxieties and theories. But in
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: this case, the facts are so much worse than any
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: negative fantasy that a mother could have. I think at
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: Aaron Robinson in Sicily Aguilera, I think they had so
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: much to hide, Aaron, a sex predator, Sicily having an affair,
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: and they vilified Vanessa because of their own bad acts.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: She became the scapegoat. She became the person who was
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: blamed for everything, all their multiple lives. Can you imagine
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: Aaron in Sicily lying to spouses and partners and superiors
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: and colleagues and vilifying Vanessa again and again until they
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: built up this urban myth that Vanessa was a bad person,
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: and then she got blood into death, and then the
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: superiors saw the blood and they looked the other way.
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: And who was Vanessa? That She's a beautiful, beautiful twenty
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: year old with her whole life ahead of her. In
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: family therapy, we have a term called the identified patient.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: It's when you have a really crazy family, but they
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: bring one person to therapy and they say that that
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: person's crazy, when in fact, the entire family's crazy. On
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: the fourth Hood Compound, Vanessa became the identified patient, the
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: one that everyone pointed the finger at, not just Aaron
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: in Sicily, but the entire group of men there. And
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: she was an innocent young woman. It's so tragic. I
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: want to go back to our longtime friend and colleague,
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: Tim Miller, crime victim. They turned his suffering into action
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: with Texas Equisearch. Tim Miller. I look at the picture
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: of Vanessa Gay in life, and she's young, she's beautiful,
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: she loves her country. All she wants to do is
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: be in the army. That's it, and go home on
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: weekends to see her family and her boyfriend. That's all
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: she wants. Tell me the scene that you discovered when
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: you and others found Vanessa's body, what did you see? Well,
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: it was it was shocking, to say the least, and
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: how close it was to the burn pile. And I
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: just stood and I stared, and I stared and I
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: stared and just tried to digest so the whole scene,
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: and it's not digested yet. I've seen a lot of things,
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: and then what we do, Just when you think you've
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: seen everything, something new pops up. And this was something new.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: We've lost sleep, we've shed tears, we try to get
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: some answers. There's no answer that's there's not an answer
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: out there that's going to take any of the pain
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: away from family from us what we've seen and and
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: you know, a lot of times I got a lot
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: of things. It's talked about it, and this time I don't.
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: It's still trying to digest that scene and what happened
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: and that fire, and that fire was so high, Nancy,
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: it was burning tree limbs fifteen feet above the damn fire.
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: They made that fire hot. There was a tire at
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: that fire too, and we know when you put a
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: tire and a fire, it burns even hotter. And you
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: know what, Nancy, there is still plastic out there that
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: they did not take in for evidence. And I'm not
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: saying a little bit of plastic. And it was trying
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: to figure out why in the hell didn't they take
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: everything that was here. All they took was that part
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: of that lid. There was still stuff out there. Yeah,
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: this investigation was botched terribly, terribly. You know what, I
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: just did something I try not to ever do. And
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: it's tough in this line of business. But for anyone
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: that doesn't care about Vanessa, imagine that picture of her
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: in her private first class unit form so proud, and
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: then put your daughter's face on top of that. That
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: is what her family is going through the thought someone
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: could do this to my girl like they did to Vanessa.
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: Is there no justice now? The Army wants to have
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: a meeting with the family lawyer, and they're still delivering
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: a line of BS. I love the military, but there's
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: one thing I love more than the military, and that
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: is the truth. We wait as justice. Son of false
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off goodbye friend. During the
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: interview with Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Natalie Kam said
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: Cecily Aguilar was let out on bond today. Crime Online
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: has reached out to the Bell County Jail and confirmed
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: Aguilar is still in custody and being processed