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Oreo Gate: When a Cookie in a Lunch Box Becomes a Parenting Debate · Other Peoples Parenting

0:00
Hello, everyone.
0:01
Welcome back to another episode of Other People's Parenting, where we read parenting books and review them for you.
0:06
I'm Skylar Hurwitz, amateur parent, and this is my mom, Karen Quinn, New York Times bestselling author and founder of Habit Coach and Testing Mom.
0:14
Hello, mom.
0:15
Hi, Skylar.
0:16
Are you excited for this episode?
0:18
Yeah.
0:18
It's a little different from what we normally do.
0:21
Yes.
0:21
We never do things like this, so, like, bear with us.
0:24
But I don't know if you're.
0:26
If you're a parent, you're probably aware of this situation going on right now called Oreo.
0:33
Would you like to give us a little.
0:35
A little intro?
0:37
Well, oreogate, we're gonna take you through it.
0:39
It's my first TikTok scandal.
0:42
TikTok scandal that I'm living through in real time.
0:45
I know, and it's a very interesting scandal.
0:49
It seems pretty harmless.
0:51
It starts with a mom who kind of.
0:55
Who gets upset, and she's on a group chat with her other group.
0:58
Incredibly verklempt.
0:59
Yes, she is, Michelle.
1:01
Over an Oreo.
1:02
Over the fact that one of the kids in class had two Oreos or an Oreo in her lunch.
1:08
Her daughter isn't allowed to have Oreos, and so she's trying to get the other moms to agree.
1:14
Let's just all not send Oreos or treats to school.
1:19
So my daughter doesn't feel left out.
1:21
And so she puts on TikTok and on, I guess, Instagram, each of, you know, little snippets from the group chat.
1:31
So we watch it.
1:32
You know, we've been wrapped by this for days.
1:35
Very interesting.
1:37
You can't stop listening.
1:38
Can't stop listening.
1:38
The developments are limitless.
1:40
And the interesting thing is, is that so many parenting issues are being brought up by this little silly chat.
1:48
So we thought, geez, we've read, what, 35 parenting books in the last year?
1:53
Honestly, thousands.
1:54
35,000 parenting books.
1:56
Like it.
1:56
35,000 pages at least.
1:58
Yes.
1:59
Anyway, so we thought, oh, let's just, like, dive into some of the parent issues that are going on in this crazy story.
2:06
Yes.
2:07
Yeah.
2:07
Yes.
2:08
So you've probably seen these before.
2:09
I don't usually follow them, but I.
2:11
Honestly couldn't tell you what, like, the last major parenting debate on the Internet was.
2:15
I mean, every couple months, there's like a sleep training fiasco.
2:18
Somebody sleep trains their kid and talks about it, and everyone, like, gets their pitchforks out.
2:22
Okay.
2:23
But this is not that.
2:24
This is.
2:25
This brings up so many things.
2:27
The way that this group chat starts is I'll just read you.
2:31
You can read it so we have.
2:33
The context for those of you who are.
2:35
If you invest in.
2:36
Yeah, it starts with this mom.
2:38
Michelle.
2:39
Michelle is the villain in this.
2:41
In this situation.
2:42
Just like for clarity's sake.
2:43
Hey everyone, sorry, slightly awkward one, but could we maybe agree on some basic rules around lunch boxes?
2:50
Jenny asks, of course.
2:51
Is this about allergies?
2:52
Michelle says, no, nothing allergy related.
2:55
Ava came home really upset yesterday because one of the girls had Oreos in her lunch.
3:01
Laura.
3:02
Oh, why was she upset?
3:04
Michelle we don't allow that kind of thing at home, so obviously she wanted them when she saw someone else eating them.
3:10
Ashley says, ah, okay.
3:12
I thought there had been an allergy issue or something.
3:15
And then Michelle says, no, I just wondered if we could agree not to send things like oreos, chocolate, candy, etc.
3:21
So the kids aren't comparing lunches?
3:23
Charlotte chimes in, I mean, I sent the Oreos and Michelle.
3:27
Oh, okay.
3:28
Would you mind maybe not sending them again?
3:31
Charlotte?
3:32
Why?
3:33
Michelle, Just because Ava was really upset about it and I think it would be easier if we're all consistent.
3:38
Then Casey chimes in.
3:40
I don't think we can control what everyone else packs though.
3:43
Michelle.
3:44
I'm not trying to control anyone.
3:46
I'm just asking everyone to be considerate.
3:49
You passive aggressive woman.
3:53
Charlotte, with respect, I'm not changing my daughter's lunch because your daughter wants an Oreo.
3:59
Okay.
4:00
First thing at hand.
4:01
Right?
4:01
Right.
4:02
How much control should we have over what other people both send to lunch, send their kids to school wearing, you know, how much control should others have over the choices other parents make about their kids?
4:17
Exactly.
4:17
Well, and what I was thinking was, look, when you have a really young child, you can do a lot to control your child's environment because you're not having to have other people change what they're doing.
4:31
Like, for example, you go to a restaurant, you bring something for your child to play with or do, or you don't bring them to a restaurant.
4:39
That's how you.
4:40
Because you know they'll get upset.
4:42
But when you send them to school to a place where you're not there to supervise, that's when there are a lot more variables, many more variables.
4:51
And you can try to get everyone to agree to not send healthy, you know, unhealthy snacks.
4:57
You can try, but if people don't.
5:00
Yeah.
5:00
You're out of luck.
5:01
Yeah.
5:01
I mean, I don't know.
5:03
That's a situation where you accept the things you cannot change.
5:06
Exactly.
5:07
Well, and then here's a good parent comment, which I think I cut out.
5:11
Some of the parent comment living in this comment section.
5:13
Right.
5:14
That's.
5:14
I mean the comment section is psychotic smart.
5:17
Some very smart.
5:18
This one, this woman said, look, Michelle, this is not about an Oreo or your kid being left out.
5:24
No one wants Ava to feel bad, but you made a choice for your family.
5:28
And the answer to her angst about it isn't to try to change and control the environment around her to match your home.
5:35
The answer is to teach your child to exist in any environment even when she's uncomfortable.
5:40
There will always be another kid with an Oreo or a name brand shirt that you choose not to buy.
5:46
You.
5:46
You have the right not to allow certain foods and everyone else has the right to allow them for their own kids.
5:52
You'll drive yourself nuts and push everyone away trying to control that which is not within your control nor your business.
6:00
Give your kids the tools to be okay and not be offended by others.
6:05
Just living their freedom like you're living yours.
6:08
Which I thought was smart.
6:09
One thing about America, it is a free country for all of us.
6:13
For anyone can have an Oreo if they want one.
6:15
Yeah.
6:16
That's just the truth of it.
6:18
Stop it now.
6:19
I thought, I went online after I, after all this and I thought, okay, ask AI like how do you stop?
6:25
Because I mean even though we have read lots of books, there's so many, you know, different opinions about how to do this.
6:31
What did Chat GPT say?
6:32
Chat GPT kind of gave a good solution.
6:35
I thought, like how do you get a five year old to follow your house rules outside the house?
6:41
Which is what Ava is not doing.
6:43
Yes.
6:43
I mean Ava is upset that she, Ava's gone rogue.
6:46
Right.
6:46
She wants the Oreo.
6:47
Yeah.
6:48
Which relatable.
6:49
I want the Oreo totally.
6:51
But.
6:51
But her mom doesn't allow it.
6:53
So anyway, what they say is you can pre correct and explain why and you could say like when you go to school, remember to only eat what I packed for you for lunch.
7:03
There's a chance you could be allergic to what someone else packed.
7:06
So scare tactics, A little bit of scare tactics.
7:08
And in our house we only eat whole foods, not processed foods because we think that's what's healthier.
7:15
And if your child is internalizes that idea, the value behind the rule, they might follow it.
7:21
Maybe.
7:22
Maybe.
7:22
I mean like I remember once we had friends who they were so they were total vegetarians and they had, and the kid was like four or five and had been hearing, you know, anti meat Comments his whole life.
7:38
Yeah, he'd been indoctrinated.
7:39
He was totally indoctrinated about it.
7:42
And we went out to dinner one night and they, I guess they had some pieces of meat on display, like the steak you could pick.
7:49
And he started crying because he thought about the animal that had gotten killed to.
7:54
But I mean, it's like, you know, some people, if they, if they really accept that what's behind your rule.
8:00
Yeah.
8:01
They'll follow it.
8:01
They'll follow it.
8:02
Yeah.
8:02
All right, so maybe Ava they could have done that.
8:05
Maybe.
8:06
But anyway, the saga continues.
8:09
Part two.
8:10
MICHELLE well, I really didn't want to bring this up again, but Ava came home upset again today.
8:16
CHARLOTTE Please don't say Oreos.
8:18
Michelle yes, actually someone sent them again.
8:22
CHARLOTTE that would be me.
8:24
Michelle Right.
8:26
So after our conversation yesterday, you still chose to send them.
8:30
Charlotte they were already in her lunchbox.
8:32
Michelle Jenny, I'm sorry, but this is getting ridiculous.
8:36
MICHELLE I don't think my daughter coming home crying two days in a row is ridiculous.
8:42
ASHLEY But Michelle nobody's giving them to Ava.
8:45
They're just eating their own lunch.
8:47
MICHELLE this is why I've emailed the teacher.
8:49
We have escalated.
8:50
Uh oh.
8:51
LAURA About Oreos.
8:53
MICHELLE about having consistency with snacks.
8:56
I've suggested they send parents an approved snack list.
9:00
Casey you emailed the teacher all caps because Charlotte's daughter had Oreos.
9:06
MICHELLE I emailed her because clearly we're not going to agree between ourselves.
9:10
CHARLOTTE there's nothing to agree on.
9:12
She's my child.
9:12
I'll pack her lunch, go off girl.
9:15
Michelle and that's fine.
9:17
But if the school agrees to the list, then obviously everybody will need to follow it.
9:22
So Michelle's a narc.
9:23
So she's a rule follower.
9:24
Yes.
9:25
Michelle I just don't understand why everyone is so against making one tiny change.
9:30
So a five year old doesn't feel left out.
9:32
Jenny Left out of what?
9:34
An Oreo?
9:35
MICHELLE it's not about the Oreo.
9:37
It's about children seeing other kids having things that their parents don't allow and feeling like they're missing out.
9:45
LAURA that's literally just life, though.
9:48
Thank you, Laura.
9:49
LAURA thank you.
9:50
Brilliantly said.
9:51
Yeah.
9:51
Brilliantly said.
9:52
Yeah.
9:53
Okay.
9:53
You can't control the world.
9:55
No.
9:55
Michelle.
9:56
No.
9:57
Poor Ava.
9:58
If I were speaking to another parent who was on the fence about joining Testing mom, you know what I would say to them is that you're never gonna regret having done this.
10:08
You may regret not getting help because you know you might not get that test score that you're looking for, or you're gonna go through a harder experience trying to help your child go through what's something you really need
10:18
professionals to help you on.
10:20
And so I think hindsight is 2020 always.
10:22
And you're really not gonna regret this opportunity.
10:26
Poor Ava.
10:27
Michelle needs to teach Ava that not everyone gets to have the same things in life.
10:31
And that's okay.
10:32
That's okay.
10:33
That's right.
10:33
If a friend and you can't have it, that's life.
10:37
That's life.
10:38
Life isn't fair.
10:39
I remember as a little girl, I wanted to drink a whole bottle of Bosco.
10:44
Do you know what Bosco is?
10:45
The syrup.
10:46
The syrup I desperately wanted, and my parents would not let me.
10:51
And I.
10:52
For the best, I vowed, when I grow up, someday I will drink a bottle of Bosco.
10:58
Did that ever happen?
10:59
No.
11:00
Because obviously I grew up in that.
11:02
And you're like, that's disgusting.
11:03
I'm not gonna do that.
11:04
But as a child, I did.
11:06
Really.
11:08
I think what's interesting about this is talk about modeling, right?
11:12
Talk about, you know, ways to raise your kids.
11:14
Michelle is modeling such an intense level of entitlement in this situation, saying, I expect not just this group of women, but the entire class, nay, the entire school, to bend to my will.
11:29
That's right.
11:30
Or else.
11:31
That's what she wants.
11:32
She's very entitled.
11:33
It's also like, just give Ava one Oreo.
11:35
Demystify this.
11:37
Cause you know what?
11:37
Kids love things you tell.
11:39
Tell them they cannot have, Right?
11:41
You're building this up.
11:43
Anyway, saga continues.
11:45
CHARLOTTE have you seen the email from the school about lunchboxes?
11:49
Jenny Just reading it now.
11:51
Charlotte quote, we encourage families to choose healthy options where possible.
11:56
However, what is included in each child's lunchbox is ultimately at the discretion of parents.
12:02
MICHELLE I've seen it.
12:04
I'm actually quite disappointed.
12:06
Laura why?
12:07
They said parents get to decide what goes in their own child's lunch.
12:10
MICHELLE They've also specifically said that they encourage healthy options.
12:15
So clearly they agree with what I was saying.
12:18
Jenny.
12:18
MICHELLE Ellipses, quote, unquote.
12:21
Quote unquote, encourage.
12:23
CHARLOTTE They've basically just politely said, I can pack the Oreos.
12:28
MICHELLE that is your interpretation.
12:30
I just think that if the school is encouraging healthy eating, parents should respect that.
12:36
Charlotte it's two Oreos.
12:38
CASEY I think the email was probably their way of ending this whole debate.
12:41
MICHELLE I just find it interesting that some people are focusing only on the part of the email that suits them.
12:47
LAURA Aren't you doing exactly that?
12:49
LAURA the Voice of reason.
12:51
She really is Charlotte.
12:53
Also, just FYI, there are three Oreos in her lunch today.
12:57
Michelle.
12:57
Seriously, Charlotte.
13:00
Therefore, my daughter, Michelle.
13:01
It's not a protest, Michelle.
13:03
It's not about you, Michelle.
13:05
At this point, it honestly feels deliberate.
13:09
Okay, so now, by now, there are so many comments now about thousands of comments about Michelle's screwed up relationship with control and with food.
13:20
Yeah.
13:21
The comments have escalated.
13:22
They have.
13:22
Well.
13:22
And about causing an eating disorder.
13:25
Yeah.
13:25
Which honestly not an unreasonable thing to bring up.
13:29
Right.
13:29
I mean things like some of the.
13:32
The level of control and anxiety around food is how kids end up binging at a friend's house and stealing and hiding food and being an adult that fears food, labeling certain things as bad and others as good.
13:46
Just let her eat the damn Oreo.
13:48
Yeah.
13:49
What a hill to die on.
13:51
Really.
13:51
Oreos are junk food and obviously not great to pack.
13:55
But a little junk food is fine.
13:57
It's not gonna kill em.
13:58
That's right.
13:59
And then someone says, Michelle needs to see a therapist.
14:01
There are no bad, everything's good in moderation.
14:05
She's gonna give her daughter an eating disorder.
14:09
And then people are just talking about, just in general, how unhealthy the term restricted foods is.
14:16
We should not use that.
14:17
No.
14:17
And remember we read a whole book about raising fat talk in a diet culture and the author there would have gone nuts.
14:27
Yeah, yeah.
14:27
And this is the thing.
14:28
I am not giving my daughter sugar.
14:30
My daughter is one year old.
14:31
Right.
14:31
I accept.
14:32
My goal is to limit her sug keyword, limit it until she is three.
14:38
Because a lot of preferences for kids foods are formed in the first three years.
14:43
And I am hoping to instill a preference for healthier food.
14:46
However, when she's not at my house, when she's at school, when she's at a birthday party, when she's out in the streets, eat whatever you want.
14:55
I am never going to tell her no.
14:56
Unless she has allergies.
14:58
Like I'm never going to tell her no.
14:59
You cannot have that because that's crazy.
15:02
Or a birthday party or something like that.
15:04
Yeah, that's crazy.
15:06
It's not healthy to teach your kids to think of food in that way.
15:10
Right.
15:10
Well, and when I was the other issue about this whole thing at this point, this is me old fashioned, me talking, but I'm thinking to myself, why are these women having this discussion?
15:21
First of all, over a group chat, they clearly are in conflict with each other.
15:25
Why don't they get together over a cup of coffee and talk?
15:29
Get over, get a cup of Coffee and talk.
15:32
Don't people talk to each other anymore?
15:34
Pick up the phone.
15:35
Right?
15:35
I mean it's like why?
15:36
Why is this?
15:37
Because nobody's going to beef with you.
15:39
Hard.
15:39
Face to face people get real big when they're just texting and editing and getting as horrific as possible.
15:46
But when face to face people are never as vicious, right?
15:49
So you can.
15:49
Because they realize they're like, oh, I sound stupid and immature.
15:53
I do.
15:54
I'm like, when are they gonna get to.
15:55
But of course it wouldn't make for as interesting of a story over the years.
15:59
And also, yeah, now we have proof.
16:00
Yeah.
16:01
Part four okay.
16:02
Michelle Okay.
16:03
I need to know whose daughter gave Ava Oreos at lunch today.
16:07
Charlotte Please don't tell me we're doing this again.
16:09
MICHELLE I'm serious.
16:11
She came home and told me she ate two at lunch.
16:14
Ashley Wait, she actually ate them this time?
16:18
MICHELLE yes.
16:20
After everything that's happened this week, I'm honestly really annoyed.
16:23
Charlotte Let me ask.
16:24
Isla because she had Oreos again today.
16:27
LAURA of course she did.
16:29
Charlotte okay.
16:31
I've just asked her.
16:31
Apparently Ava asked if she could have them.
16:34
MICHELLE Isla still shouldn't have given them to her when she knows Ava isn't allowed to have them.
16:39
CHARLOTTE there's more.
16:41
Casey oh God.
16:42
Charlotte Ava apparently offered to swap her yogurt pouch for two Oreos.
16:48
Ashley she negotiated for them.
16:51
Bravo.
16:51
Ava.
16:52
Jenny I'm sorry.
16:54
That's actually hilarious.
16:55
MICHELLE she's five.
16:57
She doesn't understand why we don't allow that kind of food.
17:00
Charlotte Michelle she literally organized the trade.
17:03
Isla thought they were swapping snacks.
17:05
MICHELLE this is exactly why I've been saying something needs to be done.
17:09
LAURA what do you want to do?
17:10
Put the Oreos under armed guard?
17:12
Michelle no.
17:14
Laura I'd expect parents to teach their children not to give other children food without permission.
17:19
Charlotte and I'd expect you to teach Ava not to trade her lunch for food she isn't allowed.
17:24
Michelle wow.
17:26
Wow.
17:26
Let what Betrayed my daughter not to do something she's not supposed to do.
17:30
Yeah.
17:31
Wow.
17:32
To tell me exactly what I'm asking you to do.
17:35
You are then asking me to do exactly.
17:37
Wow.
17:38
Wow.
17:39
That is a lot.
17:40
Oh my God.
17:41
And I thought this was a very good comment that one of the comments.
17:44
What was the comment?
17:45
The comment was it's delusional entitlement that Michelle thinks five year olds should have the boundaries and self restraint to not trade snacks.
17:55
But Ava should not be held accountable for orchestrating said trades or lacking the self restraint to not Eat foods she knows she's not allowed.
18:03
It's not the job of the other students to monitor and enforce Michelle's food rules for Ava.
18:10
Let's not even talk about Michelle expecting these other children to have boundaries and self respect when she herself can't even keep her hands off another child's lunchbox.
18:20
That happens later.
18:21
Yeah, but anyway.
18:24
Many people commented though on how Ava should be applauded for the artful way she negotiated a swap.
18:31
That's a useful life skill.
18:33
See something you want and you have something you can trade.
18:36
Exactly.
18:36
And that's what everybody said.
18:38
Like don't.
18:38
Cafeteria trades and bartering.
18:40
Doesn't that happen all the time?
18:43
That's my whole economics education as a child.
18:47
Yeah, supply and demand.
18:49
Exactly.
18:49
Exactly.
18:51
And everybody agreed with that.
18:53
And Michelle just does not understand how valuable Oreos are.
18:58
Michelle's experiencing mental illness.
19:00
Part five.
19:01
Michelle.
19:02
Right.
19:02
I genuinely don't know what to do anymore.
19:05
Charlotte.
19:06
What now?
19:07
Michelle?
19:07
Ava came home today and told me she had another Oreo at lunch.
19:12
Charlotte, before you ask, Isla didn't have any today.
19:15
Michelle.
19:15
Well, somebody gave her one.
19:17
Jenny.
19:18
Okay, this is slightly awkward.
19:20
I just asked Lily and apparently it was her.
19:23
Michelle, why is Lily giving Ava food when everyone knows she's not allowed it?
19:32
That's the thing.
19:32
Apparently Ava asked her yesterday if she could bring her one today.
19:36
She pre ordered it.
19:38
Charlotte.
19:39
I'm crying.
19:40
Michelle.
19:41
Sorry.
19:41
I don't find this funny at all.
19:43
Neither did I at first.
19:44
But I've actually just asked Lily exactly what happened.
19:47
Casey and Ava apparently told her not to give it to her near Isla.
19:52
Because Isla's mom will tell my mom.
19:55
Okay, no, this has actually crossed a line now.
19:59
Jenny.
20:00
Michelle, they're five.
20:01
Lily thought she was doing her friend a favor.
20:03
Michelle.
20:04
She's helping my daughter hide things from me.
20:07
Lily's not a snitch.
20:09
Okay.
20:10
Valuable.
20:11
Anyway, Michelle, I think we need to stop joking about this because Ava is clearly being encouraged to lie.
20:18
Now Michelle is upset because other kids are encouraging Ava to lie.
20:22
No, Michelle, your behavior is encouraging her to hide things from you.
20:26
She's scared of you.
20:27
Because you Stalin, you are like Stalin coming through people's homes.
20:33
You are.
20:34
It's McCarthy era.
20:35
Well, that's looking for communists collaborators.
20:39
Michelle just does not understand kids lie.
20:43
And what?
20:43
You know why they lie?
20:45
Because they're afraid of their parents reaction.
20:47
Yeah, hello.
20:48
Clearly you're giving her a reason to be fearful, you psycho.
20:51
That's right.
20:51
And what did she think was going to happen when.
20:54
When Ava started school and started learning from other kids.
20:58
She's gonna learn so many things that you hate.
21:01
Michelle doesn't like.
21:02
That's right.
21:03
And this may be time for Michelle to consider homeschooling.
21:06
That's my opinion.
21:07
Yeah.
21:08
And that was in the comments.
21:10
Many people made this.
21:11
Michelle is an almond mom.
21:13
Is a what mom?
21:14
An almond mom.
21:14
Almond mom.
21:15
Yeah.
21:15
You know, like Yolanda Hadid on Real Housewives of Beverly Hills.
21:18
Yes.
21:19
When anytime Gigi or Bella was hungry, she's like, here, have an almond.
21:22
Right?
21:22
They're like, well, anyway, no, this is.
21:27
How supermodels are made, apparently.
21:28
I guess they.
21:29
That's right.
21:30
And so part six.
21:31
Okay.
21:32
Michelle Or Sorry.
21:33
Charlotte.
21:34
Michelle, did you go through Isla's lunchbox this morning?
21:38
MICHELLE I didn't, quote, unquote, go through it.
21:41
CHARLOTTE she told me you opened it and looked inside.
21:45
MICHELLE I was going to speak to Charlotte first, but Isla was already at Breakfast Club and obviously Charlotte had left.
21:51
Left?
21:52
CHARLOTTE yes, because I drop her off and then go to work.
21:56
MICHELLE I know.
21:57
I looked for you first.
21:58
JENNY I don't think that's making this better.
22:01
Michelle Charlotte, why were you looking in her lunchbox?
22:04
MICHELLE Ava told me yesterday that Isla was bringing Oreos again today.
22:09
MICHELLE after everything that's happened, I just wanted to know if it was true.
22:14
CHARLOTTE so you opened my daughter's lunchbox to check for Oreos?
22:20
MICHELLE I literally just looked.
22:22
I didn't touch or take anything.
22:24
ASHLEY I feel like I didn't take anything isn't helping here.
22:28
MICHELLE I was trying to prevent another situation before it happened.
22:34
CHARLOTTE by searching a five year old's lunchbox?
22:38
MICHELLE Searching is a ridiculous word for it.
22:41
The lunchbox was right there outside the classroom.
22:44
CASEY that somehow makes it sound worse.
22:47
CHARLOTTE Were there Oreos there then?
22:49
Since apparently we're doing lunches box inspections now.
22:52
MICHELLE yes, there were.
22:54
CHARLOTTE Good.
22:56
I packed them.
22:57
Ooh.
22:58
MICHELLE and this is exactly why I checked.
23:01
CHARLOTTE Michelle, if you ever open my daughter's lunchbox again, we are going to have a very different conversation.
23:08
MICHELLE Wow.
23:10
I was actually trying to avoid more dramatic girl.
23:14
Were you?
23:15
ASHLEY Checking someone's child's lunchbox for contraband Oreos might not have been the best way to achieve that.
23:22
Okay, now what?
23:24
Where are we now?
23:25
In the comment section.
23:26
Okay.
23:27
By now Michelle is putting her daughter at risk of becoming an outcast because nobody is going to want to deal with her crazy mother.
23:36
If I were Ava, I'd be seeking out emancipation, right?
23:38
I'd be calling lawyers.
23:39
She's only five.
23:41
School moms are so judgmental.
23:43
You do not want to be on the receiving end of their wrath.
23:45
I just want to say at this point, I was a highly judged school mom.
23:50
Because you had a job.
23:51
Because I had a job in a school where most moms did not work.
23:55
And when I didn't show up, like for all of your games, you know, whatever games, I.
24:01
I did not play a sport.
24:02
Sam's games.
24:03
I was games.
24:04
You didn't have games.
24:05
But Sam did.
24:06
And I didn't go to all the baseball and.
24:08
And all the mothers would.
24:09
Would like gossip about why I wasn't there and how was.
24:12
I'm just saying I was the object of.
24:14
You don't want to be the object of wrath of all the other mothers.
24:18
But when moms were talking badly about you, Bevy would always stay.
24:22
Well, I had someone to defend down.
24:24
But.
24:24
But Michelle doesn't.
24:25
And so here's what Michelle on her own.
24:27
And Michelle does not have a bev because Michelle is too controlling to have anyone like that.
24:33
But okay.
24:34
It says here, okay, these are what other people said.
24:37
Michelle needs to chill before she isolates her daughter.
24:40
Michelle needs barbiturous everyone.
24:41
This is unhealthy and unhinged.
24:44
Michelle is becoming a problem for her daughter's social life.
24:47
Poor Ava is going to end up being bullied or outcasted from the other kids in her class because of her mom.
24:54
I feel so sad.
24:55
Michelle is making Ava into the weird kid with the loony mom for the entire school.
25:00
This stuff will never die.
25:01
Parents talk.
25:02
Teachers talk.
25:04
Then someone says poor little Ava will never get invited to anyone's friends houses because her mother is a lunatic.
25:11
I mean.
25:11
I mean, if she's this way about Oreos, what about birthday cake?
25:15
Or ice cream with brownies and oh.
25:17
My God, there'd be lawsuits.
25:18
Ava's gonna have no friends because her mom won't let her have any get in on any of it.
25:25
So everyone is now worried about Ava.
25:28
Ava and how damaging this is that she's doing this.
25:32
Part 7 Charlotte I'm actually really annoyed now.
25:35
Michelle.
25:36
About what?
25:37
Charlotte I spoke to Isla's teacher at pickup about you opening her lunchbox.
25:41
Michelle Seriously?
25:42
It was right there with the others when I dropped Ava off.
25:45
I literally just looked.
25:47
Charlotte that's not the point.
25:49
You opened my daughter's lunchbox?
25:52
Ashley Yeah, I don't think it was right there is helping.
25:56
Michelle I was going to speak to you first, but you'd already left.
26:00
Charlotte Because Isla was at Breakfast Club.
26:02
You could have messaged me.
26:04
Michelle.
26:04
Well, I Spoke to the teacher about it anyway.
26:07
Charlotte.
26:07
I know.
26:08
That's why I'm annoyed right now.
26:10
Jenny.
26:11
Wait, what happened?
26:12
Charlotte.
26:13
Apparently Michelle got to the teacher before I did.
26:17
Michelle got to the teacher?
26:18
Is ridiculous.
26:19
Girl, you love to gaslight.
26:22
I explained what had actually been happening.
26:25
Charlotte.
26:25
You told her that there had been repeated incidents involving Isla giving Ava restricted food.
26:32
Laura.
26:33
Restricted food.
26:35
Michelle.
26:36
That's what it is in our household.
26:38
Ava.
26:38
Or sorry, Charlotte.
26:39
Ava traded her yogurt for the Oreos.
26:42
Oh, and it gets worse.
26:43
Casey.
26:44
What now?
26:45
Charlotte?
26:45
She asked if Isla and Ava could be separated at lunchtime.
26:49
Jenny.
26:50
Stop.
26:50
Michelle.
26:51
I asked if it might be sensible.
26:53
I didn't demand anything.
26:55
Charlotte.
26:56
You opened my daughter's lunchbox and then tried to get her moved.
27:00
Michelle.
27:01
Because there have been multiple issues involving food.
27:05
Charlotte.
27:05
All involving your daughter trying to get the Oreos.
27:10
Michelle.
27:10
I don't appreciate you making Ava out to be the problem.
27:13
Charlotte.
27:14
Then stop making my daughter the problem.
27:16
Ashley.
27:17
How have we gone from two Oreos to a seating arrangement?
27:21
Okay, now this is getting ugly.
27:24
A big thing that I remember from.
27:26
Testing Moms is definitely my tutor, Maddie.
27:29
She was a lot more patient and made tutoring a more fun than learning.
27:33
About things with my mom.
27:35
I remember that there were a lot.
27:36
Of games and it made me look forward to going to tutoring every week.
27:41
Now this is getting ugly.
27:43
So now we.
27:43
Now the teachers are weighing in, or people on behalf of.
27:47
I was waiting for this.
27:48
Yeah, people on behalf of the teachers are weighing in, saying some of the comments being, oh, to be the teacher receiving this email.
27:57
Someone writes, I'm the teacher.
27:59
My policy is you breed them, you feed em.
28:03
Someone says, I hope the teacher reprimanded Michelle for going through another child's lunchbox.
28:08
I realized there were politics around that.
28:09
Like, what are we afraid of?
28:11
You don't open other people's stuff.
28:13
I mean, yeah, I guess that's true.
28:14
Just as a person, anything could happen.
28:16
You know what I mean?
28:17
Yeah, you could poison them.
28:18
I mean, not that you would.
28:19
I guess that's true.
28:20
But still, who knows?
28:21
Well, she's a little unhinged.
28:23
I don't know.
28:24
But anyway, I hope the teacher reprimanded Michelle for going through another child's lunchbox.
28:28
As a teacher, I would be livid and just ignore her requests.
28:31
That's a huge no.
28:33
No going through another child's lunchbox.
28:36
The fact that Michelle is touching a minor's personal property over Oreos would have me getting the principal involved.
28:44
The woman is unhinged.
28:45
Call the police.
28:46
And she thinks all of this is appropriate.
28:49
A cafeteria manager says, I can assure you this petty, entitled crap happens and always leaves me scratching my head.
28:57
Someone says, you know, that teacher is just cursing Michelle like they don't have.
29:01
Enough to deal with honestly.
29:03
And a TA who says he does lunch duty says, my solution to this petty problem would be to gently tell Ava that if her mom says she can't have Oreos, then she needs to remember not to ask others
29:15
to give them to her.
29:17
And then I would tell the other kids not to swap foods because there's always a danger of food allergies.
29:22
That's what would happen at our school.
29:26
Okay.
29:26
And then someone else suggested maybe they should move Ava to the allergy free table so she would be void of temptation.
29:34
I didn't know there was such a thing.
29:35
Me either.
29:35
Maybe there is now.
29:37
Maybe there is now.
29:38
Part eight.
29:39
And this is a side chat that Michelle is not a part of.
29:42
It is the other moms talking about what's going on with Oreo Gate.
29:46
And so they can speak more candidly in party.
29:50
The moms decide that they will all pack Oreos in their daughter's lunches tomorrow.
29:54
It's Charlotte's idea.
29:56
She declared Wario.
29:58
Jenny says it's petty.
29:59
But Charlotte reminds everyone that Michelle opened her daughter's lunchbox at school and that was petty.
30:04
So a plan is hatched.
30:06
A lot of people liked this.
30:08
I.
30:08
I kind of am an agreeer with you.
30:10
I was.
30:11
I did not like this plan.
30:12
I was upset when they.
30:14
Because now we're stooping to Michelle's level.
30:15
Exactly.
30:16
And like, girl, let her be in hell by herself.
30:19
Yeah.
30:20
I just.
30:21
First of all, even though I don't like Michelle, I thought it was such a.
30:26
The person this impacts is Ava.
30:27
Well, ultimately.
30:29
But even to Michelle, I thought it was super mean to do it to Michelle.
30:32
And I didn't want.
30:33
I just didn't want them to be bullies to Michelle.
30:37
Even though Michelle is horrible.
30:38
I agree.
30:39
I don't like her.
30:41
But the big thing was Ava, because what's gonna happen is.
30:44
And what did happen is that, you know, she.
30:47
Ava's gonna go to school, everyone's gonna have Oreos but her.
30:51
She's gonna feel very left out.
30:52
Yeah.
30:53
And it's like, it's like a.
30:54
You know, all the kids got invited to a birthday party that you weren't invited to.
30:58
And I just felt sorry for.
31:00
And a lot of people agree.
31:02
Not a lot, actually.
31:03
More people in the comments thought it was funny.
31:06
Yeah.
31:06
But there were people let's consider the kid.
31:09
Yeah, a lot of people did say consider the kid.
31:12
I feel sorry for her.
31:15
And it's funny, but take a moment to think about the one kid who won't have Oreos that day.
31:20
Michelle is not doing her kids any favor.
31:23
But this is something that could make the little girl feel singled out.
31:28
And you're not doing it.
31:29
You're doing it.
31:30
Michelle's not doing it.
31:31
Yeah.
31:31
Keep the kids out of the mom drama, which I think is good advice always.
31:36
And she says.
31:36
And one mom says, this is giving mean girl vibes.
31:40
Yeah.
31:41
I know that Michelle is unreasonable.
31:43
She could have addressed her concerns in a different way and not in the group chat.
31:47
But uniting against her feels wrong.
31:50
And.
31:51
And the kids are all going to pick up on this behavior, and they might do that against Ava.
31:56
Totally.
31:56
So that's like, you don't want that.
31:58
No, that was.
31:59
I just felt cruel and it's.
32:00
Yeah, of course they did.
32:02
So now this brings us to part nine.
32:04
In part nine, we discovered that the next day, Ava's teacher reported that Ava stopped every girl asking for an Oreo.
32:10
And apparently every single one of them had Oreos.
32:13
And one even had double stuffed Oreos.
32:18
Uh oh, the plot thickens.
32:21
Right?
32:22
The other moms ask Michelle why she's so opposed to Oreos.
32:25
Michelle says it's personal and she refuses to discuss it.
32:29
What happened to you?
32:30
Who hurt you?
32:31
The other moms say that you can't expect us to change what we pack when we don't even know what we're supposed to be avoiding.
32:38
Michelle, I'm not asking you to understand it.
32:40
I'm asking you to respect it, girl.
32:43
Okay?
32:44
The moms say that they are respecting it and that nobody gave Ava an Oreo.
32:49
Michelle.
32:49
And yet I've spent the entire drive home hearing about double stuffed Oreos, and now Ava wants one.
32:59
Then, mom, you said to me, this is like Ava, okay, this is the birthday party thing.
33:05
Now the moms are wondering, what is the traumatic event in Michelle's life involving double stuffed Oreos that she's just so.
33:12
Ruined by right now?
33:14
That's the whole discussion.
33:16
Like, what could possibly have happened?
33:18
Yeah, right, right, right.
33:21
Well, and also, Michelle says that the point is, since AVA's 5, if everyone has something, she's gonna want it.
33:29
Yeah, but why can't she listen to that?
33:32
This is an opportunity again to teach your child that in life you don always get everything you want.
33:37
And sometimes other people have stuff you want and you can't have it.
33:41
Right?
33:41
And doesn't this Tell Michelle what?
33:43
Interesting.
33:44
Ava realized that this is an artificial boundary between the things she wants and cannot have.
33:51
It is her mom in another place telling her she's not allowed to have it.
33:55
Right.
33:55
But she's taken matters into her own hands.
33:57
She's trying realized, well, I can trade Isla my yogurt patches and still get what I want.
34:06
Right.
34:06
Which I think is valuable, being able to figure out what is an artificial boundary and what is, you know, an overcomeable boundary versus a not overcomeable.
34:17
Well.
34:18
And she probably figures out that if all the other kids can have it, it can't be that bad.
34:22
Yeah.
34:22
Yeah, it can't be that bad.
34:24
It's just my mother who thinks it's bad.
34:26
Exactly.
34:26
It's just my unhinged mother.
34:28
It starts with Oreos, but it becomes Almond Maui.
34:31
It kind of is.
34:32
Okay.
34:33
Oh, and then we get into comments.
34:35
A lot of comments have.
34:37
Before we get into the very last one, a lot of people are asking, is this real?
34:42
Is this even a real story?
34:45
And the woman who's posted it, Ashley Jams.
34:49
It's A, S, H, L, E, I, G, H, J, A, M, Z.
34:53
If you want to find it, if you want to look this up.
34:55
Yeah.
34:55
She insists, yes, this is real.
34:58
But who knows?
34:59
Many people speculate that she has a brand deal with Nabisco or Oreos.
35:05
And we're gonna cover a book in the future called, like, Follow, Subscribe.
35:10
And I think now, after I've started reading that it could have been very much a brand deal.
35:17
Sounds very possible.
35:19
And if it is smart, it would have been a really smart campaign because people right now are talking about putting Oreos into the lunch boxes, and it's back to school time.
35:29
Imagine being married to Michelle.
35:30
Well.
35:31
Well, no, that's.
35:32
Well, that's another.
35:33
I refuse.
35:35
Yeah, right.
35:36
Right.
35:36
Well, so, anyway, so there's a lot of talk about, is this real?
35:39
Is this fake?
35:40
And I don't know.
35:41
We don't know.
35:41
We don't know if it's real.
35:42
False.
35:42
We don't know.
35:43
But either way, it brings up some interesting parenting debacles.
35:47
It does.
35:47
But someone also suggested, what if Michelle works for Keebler and her beef is against Nabisco and.
35:54
Or like a whole conspiracy, you know,.
35:56
It goes all the way to the top.
35:58
Exactly.
35:59
But then what you just said, this is where.
36:02
I mean, there's so much negativity against Michelle now by now, in these comments, like, Michelle doesn't understand that there will be bigger hills for her to die on.
36:12
And I'm not sure going down in flames over Oreos is worth it.
36:17
And then this crazy mom is trying to ban Oreos.
36:20
She's gonna be the mother trying to ban books.
36:22
By middle school at Ava's house, they hand out fruit and raisins for Halloween.
36:29
Gross.
36:30
You know, poor Ava growing up under these conditions.
36:34
Michelle is miserable in her marriage and it shows.
36:37
There you go.
36:38
And then someone.
36:38
Ava's growing up in communist Russia.
36:40
Right.
36:41
And then someone said the name Michelle will soon become synonymous with the name Karen.
36:45
Which.
36:45
Wouldn't that be a relief for you?
36:46
It would.
36:47
I would be so happy if suddenly people started.
36:49
Started using Michelle instead of Karen.
36:51
FYI, teen's government name is Karen.
36:54
My name is Karen, which.
36:57
It's really hard.
36:58
I know.
36:59
It's really been taken.
37:01
It's been abused.
37:02
It is.
37:02
And it's like I can never get upset in public about anything now because my name is Karen.
37:08
It's like I just can't.
37:10
It's horrible.
37:11
It's just horrible.
37:12
Do you wish you could go on more public rampages that you are preventing?
37:15
I do.
37:16
I would like to.
37:17
No, I don't.
37:18
I'm not a person who go.
37:19
But if I ever needed to, I can.
37:21
To reserve the right.
37:22
Yeah.
37:22
Someone could film me and say, and her name is Karen, obviously.
37:26
Yeah.
37:26
But anyway.
37:27
Yeah.
37:28
All right, so finally, part 10.
37:29
You want to tell us what happened in part 10, which is just today.
37:32
And this thing is probably going to go on.
37:33
Yeah.
37:34
This will go on and on.
37:35
So as best we can, we'll keep you updated.
37:38
Right?
37:38
Yeah.
37:39
So stay tuned.
37:39
Watch this space.
37:40
Watch it yourself now.
37:41
You know.
37:42
Yeah.
37:42
Just follow these people.
37:43
It's really funny.
37:44
Endless, right?
37:45
These women realized they started Operation Oreo for a laugh.
37:48
But they've now discovered.
37:49
Discovered family secrets.
37:52
There are reasons why Michelle has a problem with Oreos but refused to disclose them.
37:56
They are determined to find out why she hates Oreos so much.
37:59
They float reasons.
38:00
She experienced trauma in an Oreo factory.
38:03
Her ex worked for Oreo.
38:05
She got dumped by the Oreo man.
38:07
I don't even know what an Oreo man is.
38:08
Well, the man who worked in the Oreo.
38:09
Oh.
38:10
I was like, what's the Oreo man?
38:12
You know, kind of like, he was the man who worked in the Oreo factory.
38:15
Okay.
38:16
I was like, Oreo man.
38:18
Then Casey brings up that her daughter told her that Ava asked Isla if she could bring the double stuff tomorrow.
38:25
The girls decide not to say anything to Michelle.
38:28
When Casey says, I'm serious.
38:30
Apparently Ava said she's going to find a way to try one.
38:33
So, boy, she's like a future.
38:34
She could be like a future drug addict.
38:36
I mean, that.
38:36
I was gonna say she's gonna be the president of our country if she keeps up with this persistence.
38:41
That's a kid with grit.
38:43
That.
38:43
It's true.
38:44
She does.
38:44
She does not give up.
38:45
Yeah.
38:46
We're gonna tell you guys about grand grit soon, right?
38:49
You're gonna learn about grit.
38:50
But, yeah, that is a kid with grit.
38:52
She doesn't give up.
38:53
She has something she wants, and her mother is standing in the way.
38:57
And what's gonna happen.
38:59
She says, that's not an obstacle I care about because.
39:01
Is her mother in the room with us right now?
39:04
No, I'm.
39:06
Well, she's persistent.
39:07
She's trying to get.
39:08
I.
39:08
You know, I give it to little Ava.
39:09
Me, too.
39:10
She's fighting against the woman.
39:12
Yeah.
39:13
The woman who's.
39:14
Who's getting to be.
39:17
There's going to be problems, I predict, between Ava and Michelle as time goes on.
39:22
I.
39:22
I say that's a pretty.
39:24
Yes.
39:25
Yes.
39:26
Don't you.
39:26
Don't you agree?
39:27
I think so.
39:28
I think, you know, girls and their moms, it's a delicate relationship.
39:33
I think when moms try to restrict anything, particularly from young girls.
39:38
Ava, when you're a teenager, give her hell.
39:41
She went, clearly, I can see it.
39:44
I mean, right now she's going undercover and she's trying and she's doing.
39:49
She's been trying to manipulate and do a little lying, which Michelle needs to learn.
39:54
That's perfectly developmentally natural and normal, healthy.
39:58
Right.
39:59
Exactly.
39:59
And that you have to ask yourself, why is your child so afraid of you that she has to go lie and tell people not to.
40:06
Well, because, like, on a serious note, right, the kid that's trying to get the Oreo surreptitiously because.
40:11
Becomes the teenager at the party who's been drinking and then drives their car or, like, gets in a car with someone who's irresponsible because they're scared to.
40:18
Call you of their mother's reaction.
40:20
Yeah.
40:20
Which.
40:20
That's not the parent you want to be.
40:22
No.
40:23
That doesn't prevent kids from doing dumb things or things you don't want them to do.
40:27
Right.
40:27
It just encourages them to hide it from you and put themselves in even further precarious situations.
40:32
Exactly.
40:33
Yeah.
40:34
No, it is.
40:35
Now, let me ask you.
40:35
Do you think.
40:36
Think.
40:37
Is this a re.
40:37
I mean, it feels real to me, but.
40:39
It feels real to me.
40:40
But do you.
40:40
Yeah.
40:41
You think it's real?
40:41
I mean, I'm not At the stage where I'm in like mom groups and like PTA stuff.
40:46
But you know what?
40:47
Listen, kids are high stakes and I think people who don't have much else going on, I mean, this, this could be, you know, their white whale.
40:57
Oh, yeah.
40:58
You know, it could be.
40:59
You're right.
40:59
Yeah, it's.
41:00
It's so clear to me also, like the moms who are busy in this group and the moms who are not.
41:05
Right.
41:06
That's true.
41:07
Who just don't.
41:08
Yeah, right, Right.
41:09
I looked for you, but you had already left.
41:12
Yeah, girl.
41:13
Cause I have a job.
41:14
I have to go to work.
41:16
I know.
41:17
You act like I left my kid in a ditch.
41:19
I left her at her school.
41:20
Right?
41:20
Yeah.
41:21
But her, her lunchbox was right there for me to open.
41:25
What are you saying?
41:25
I should have put it under lock and key?
41:28
Right?
41:28
Right.
41:29
No.
41:29
Oh my God.
41:30
I can't.
41:30
Uh huh.
41:31
No.
41:31
I've enjoyed watching this.
41:33
It's been fun.
41:34
Me too.
41:34
And she presents it.
41:36
Ashley presents it in a very fun way where the, the comments or the, the dialogue is being sung by.
41:45
Oh, I love those AI.
41:47
It's really fun.
41:49
So funny.
41:50
So it's fun to listen to.
41:51
So I encourage you to listen.
41:52
If you haven't.
41:53
Yeah.
41:53
Which.
41:53
What kind of voice did they use?
41:56
Was it like a gospel voice?
41:57
Those are my favorite ones.
41:58
Oh, I.
41:58
I don't.
41:59
How would I even describe it?
42:00
Or was it like a rock one?
42:02
It's kind of more like a roboty one.
42:03
I don't know.
42:04
I gotta, I gotta go back.
42:05
I didn't see those versions.
42:06
Versions.
42:07
I think I only saw the.
42:08
But also because, like, I was watching it when my baby was like asleep.
42:11
Yeah.
42:12
Reading it or something.
42:13
No, but you could.
42:13
It's better to listen to it.
42:14
It's funny anyway.
42:16
But I.
42:16
I found it very interesting and I thought it brought up so many parenting issues that these women are gonna have to deal with that all of us as parents deal with.
42:26
Yeah.
42:26
Because he has a parent.
42:27
You have to deal with other parents.
42:28
Unless you're homeschooling.
42:30
Yeah.
42:30
Because then you don't have to deal with anyone.
42:32
Well, that's, that's why some people, People homeschool for that reason.
42:35
Want to deal with other.
42:36
And we'll tell you all about homeschooling in the next couple of weeks because there's a lot to learn about it.
42:41
Yes.
42:42
But anyway, guys, thank you so much for joining us for this episode of Other People's Parenting.
42:46
And we will see you next week.