Latest / Reflect Reclaim & Liberate - with Sallyanne Hartnell / Financial Freedom After Divorce: Getting Unstuck with Your Time, Energy & Money

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Financial Freedom After Divorce: Getting Unstuck with Your Time, Energy & Money · Reflect Reclaim & Liberate - with Sallyanne Hartnell

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to Clive and Liberalized.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_02: How to create a healthy, happy, fulfilling relationship.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_02: Sacrifice.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_02: Supporting anyone feeling relationship.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: I free relationship.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_02: I know it's fine.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: I acknowledge them as the original storytellers of this land.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_02: Today on the podcast, I'm welcoming Josh Pennell, a financial advisor with 20 years experience, who is passionate about helping people achieve financial success and the free or the financial success and freedom they deserve.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: Also known as the Family Finance Guy, Josh is a dad and stepdad to four kids and best-selling author of the book What Parents Want: A guide to achieving financial freedom, life balance, and family happiness.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_02: In a nutshell, Josh gets people, not only divorcees, but divorcees, unstuck and thriving financially.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_02: Josh, welcome to the podcast.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Daliane.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: Great to be part of it.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_02: To kick off, can you just tell us a little bit about you, what you do, and what drew you to the world of financial planning?
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sure.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: Well, your sort of intro there covers a bit of it, but going back a very long way, um, started investing myself when I was 15.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so just have always been involved in finance, and obviously you go through your studies and learning and jobs and things like that.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, what I loved about um financial planning was it's just something you can really you can employ the learnings, it's not um something where you're just sort of learning something that you can't actually apply to your life.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I loved that for my myself and and enjoyed doing that for myself, and then obviously growing it into a career and helping people to you know break down things that might find they might find complex or challenging and finding those answers and getting them on the right path is something I've done my whole career.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then having gone through my own um loss nearly eight years ago, that's when I started to realize that's quite a niche error in itself, but it is a time in people's lives where their whole financial position and situation is you know completely tipped upside down and needs to be refreshed.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: So that's when I, you know, got really passionate about applying my learnings and knowledge specifically to people um going through separation and divorce.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's a really often talk about it as a crash point, like where everything just gets thrown up in the air and all the things settle back down.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, for a lot of people navigating separation and divorce, there are real gaps in financial knowledge or even skills and empowerment.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, to make those really huge, you know, impactful decisions without support can feel pretty scary.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think there's a few factors.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: You've got finances can be complex and confusing and not people's everyday world anyway, regardless of age, background, married, single, whatever it might be.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but then coming out of uh a relationship, often there is one person who has been more involved with the finances and someone who's been a bit less involved.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's sort of, you know, in many families it is about divide and conquer, and you know, all right, you do a bit more of the parenting or a bit more of the home duties, and I'll be a bit more of the breadwinner, or someone's got more knowledge or passion to do different things, and finances is obviously just one of that, one of those things.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that can lead to different levels of knowledge, different, even you know, relationships with key people, key advisors, and being on top of those things, and where are the documents?
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't know that, and I didn't have to worry about that, um, is is sometimes a factor.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: But then the thing that can even magnify that further is that any decisions or actions we're trying to take in life when we're in a highly stressful state or set of events is always harder because our capacity to function and do things is is diminished.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: So that's where getting guidance from someone who can help with the knowledge side, but also help with the support, the having the right conversations, um, being able to take those first steps, opening up something that feels a bit scary and daunting, and seeing that, oh, actually I can do this, and either way forward and giving it the right structure is is really important and valuable.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, empowering the person to say, Yeah, I can, as you said, I can do this.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna go with the right support advice.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I want to go back a little bit.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_02: You're a parent, you're a dad, stepdad, and as you said, someone who's navigated separation divorce yourself.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_02: Can you share a little bit, as much as you're comfortable, a little bit of your personal story and how that's shaped your approach and helping others financially through separation, divorce, and beyond?
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think the biggest thing, I mean, I won't go into the specifics of my sort of relationships and kids and all that, other than to say that I've been through it and so I've got that first hand understanding, and that sometimes is a lot of comfort to people because until you go through it, you really can't properly understand another person and what they're what they're dealing with.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, once you've come out the other side of that, you've also got other forms of perspective and learnings and things that you can hopefully share that the give a people give people a bit more hope and positivity, and um that can be valuable as well.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: So that's probably part of the personal side of it.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: But in terms of helping people in the financial advice side of divorce, the biggest thing that blew me away was even though I've had a lifetime of investing, um, a lifetime involved in finance and professional services and dealing with with lawyers, you know, predominantly say commercial or estate planning lawyers, um, dealing with people's lives and finances, family decisions and intergenerational and all this stuff.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: Until I personally went through a family law event, I had no idea like just what was involved in the world of family law, like how it works, some of the challenges people face, some of the roadblocks, some of the things that might be time wasters or money wasters, or just challenge, you know, really challenging.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's a really there are a lot of things about it that don't function well.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: It's not a user friendly, it's not a user-friendly.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good way of putting it.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's and a politically correct way of putting it as well.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so for me, that was probably the biggest thing.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, whoa, like I'm a person who has some knowledge about money, but there's all these other things here that just aren't allowing this to get dealt with and get finalized and get like this is crazy.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: So that's probably where I thought, well, people clearly need a whole team around them for this event.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: You're part of that team, I'm part of that team, so many others that we could list off.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um and for me, it was like, how can I be just one person who's bringing a positive solution as part of that you know, team of people that someone would need, because I've now learnt and seen what I think um doesn't work, what I think wasn't effective, efficient, um, didn't allow for cost effective or smart ways of getting outcomes.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: So that's probably you know the other thing for me that I can that I bring is knowing and being able to help give a bit of guidance around, hey, I think this will help get this done easier and with less stress, less pain, less cost, um, things like that.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for sharing that.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and yeah, building your team smartly, strategically, and also just filling those knowledge gaps so that you've got the right aligned support is just so important.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, we could talk all day about how the family law system is not user-friendly, but that's probably another podcast episode.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_02: Umance, what is the very first step or steps someone should take financially when they're either considering separation or have just been told their partner wants to separate?
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_02: What are the first things?
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there's certainly a lot involved.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I've got a checklist that I've put together that is probably a pretty good place to start and happy to share that with people in whatever form.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I can find that on my website, which I know you'll share as well.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a good starting point and a and an easy enough DIY option for people to be aware of.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: All right, I need to be across and not miss these things.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: But for me, I would say the first thing is actually making sure you know your financial position.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of people, as I said, maybe haven't been as involved, or even sometimes in couples, both parties aren't overly across finances.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's just maybe not their thing.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's not everyone lives and breathes it.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: So um, and the simplest ways to do that are look at you know, what are your assets, what are your liabilities, and make sure you've confirmed those as in the overall relationship.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and financial advisor speaking that it's what do you what do you own, what do you owe?
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so getting that clear, again, we've got a simple template on our website where people can put that together themselves and just there and have us.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then the other one would be making sure that shorter term, longer term this is important as well, but just is there going to be any short-term cash flow issues that you need to be thinking about and how you're gonna deal with those?
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: And that's just again, what's coming in and what's going out, and what might that look like in a week or a month as your situation changes.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you're just not gonna be tricked up with any short-term problems of like literally not being able to um meet your requirements.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: So there's plenty more to it, but if you were to just highlight a good starting point and not try and overwhelm people, I'd start with those two things, which um don't overdo it, get it 95% accurate, because 95% accurate should only take an hour, maybe.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, the other 5% is what can take for three, four, five hours, but it doesn't have that big an impact.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it can, that's to where people can get overwhelmed.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, don't try and get things perfect, but get some knowledge and awareness of of where you're at um and what you're working off.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: And then uh the checklist I mentioned is a good simple way for people to be aware without having to think about themselves, know themselves, or or anything like that.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because let's face it, if you're in that situation, whether it's you're wondering whether to stay or go having the conversations with your partner, or you've perhaps been blindsided by them, you're in that heightened state already.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_02: So a checklist is great.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for sharing that.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah, and I talk about like with my clients, do you have full access, full access, full knowledge, full visibility on all the financial resources of the relationship?
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_02: Because oftentimes, and it's not necessarily a financial control or abuse issue, but oftentimes, you know, there's a sector of the finances that one person is across that the other person isn't.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so yeah, filling those little gaps is, I think, important too.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: But again, that's probably in the 5%, not the 95%.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_02: What do you see the biggest, or what do you think are the biggest financial mistakes people make in these early stages of separation?
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_02: And perhaps how can somebody avoid or minimize the impact that they might have?
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'd say um not doing what we just spoke about is a simple one.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um obviously you need to be catering to you know your everyday needs, maybe some lump sum needs, um having access to funds in some form is really important when we're talking you know, really short term.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um so that's probably the the critical one.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, making sure you're aware of how you've got access to to meeting your needs would be the biggest priority.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um having an awareness around, you know, the fact that in most cases, separation, divorce, and settling the financials takes a lot of time.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: So going into it with more of a marathon mentality rather than a sprint, even if you're in a reasonably amicable situation and things like that, it can still take time to unwind these things, whether there might be properties that need to be sold or other assets that need to be sold.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and even coming to a even coming to an agreement with someone who you're on relatively good terms with just still takes time, still gonna be at least months.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so probably approaching it with that type of time frame in mind and therefore thinking, okay, well, what am I going to need to be having access to for a period of months, if not in some cases years, that are important about my situation.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: So that's obviously liquid cash funds, that's the ability to pay for everyday things, that's a roof over your head, whether it's staying in your current home, someone's moving out of renting, or whatever it might be.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, know that you need to be covering a lot of things for a reasonable period of time is is an important thing to be aware of.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I like the marathon over sprint um analogy too.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um oftentimes people think, you know, oh, we're just gonna split, we'll be done, it'll all be easy.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_02: And even if it's amicable, you're right, it can take a long time, you know, if there are family trusts or businesses, or you know, there's a lot to be unraveled and lots of conversations, not just a one and done.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_02: I want to talk next about your book, What Parents.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: Was there a moment or uh, you know, what was the thing that made you realize that this book needed to be written?
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, part of it, um, in terms of the sort of the catalyst to even think about writing a book, that came out of a a course I was doing.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's what made me start thinking, okay, well, what would I write a book about?
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: And then I started reflecting on you know, where where do I have valuable knowledge to share?
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: What have I got that's unique or authentic or relevant that I can really speak to?
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: And in reflecting on all of that, I looked back and thought, well, I started investing when I was 15.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's not normal.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I've got a lot of lessons as an investor personally, but also having looked after helping hundreds of other people invest their money.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: So there's one topic.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: Then I thought, well, I've invested in different types of things, whether it be shares or property.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'd run an Airbnb, I run my own business.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I sort of thought, oh, I've got a breadth of knowledge about the types of investments people might hold and the pros and cons of those, not just financial pros and cons, but just you know, management pros and cons and things to think about.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: Then I was like, Oh, I'm I've I'm a parent, but I've been divorced, so I haven't got it all right, not perfect.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that's where you learn.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: Goodness interrupted.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, uh good.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: And that's like, okay, well, that's but that's where you learn things and go, oh, well, that's what I got wrong, and what I've had to learn about myself or relationships or whatever it might be.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then it also, yeah, now being in a blended family, had lessons about yeah, how do you do that and all this sort of stuff?
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, I just feel like there's something in here, whether it's people who are in a happily married relationship or um they are divorced.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and even if yeah, it's it was just I feel like that's the broader topic and audience that I can help.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: So then it became about well, what how do you throw that in a pot and make it a a book that is kind of makes sense and flows and and that sort of thing?
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the biggest learning for me was seeing and like through my own lessons, seeing that if one part of a parent's life is a 10 out of 10, say say finances are a 10 out of 10, but we know we've got seven or eight key parts of our overall life.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: So we've got finances, we've got relationship, we've got parenting, we've got health, um, etc.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: etc.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: If you've got one or two or even three that are ten, but the rest are all one out of ten, then you're not going to be happy.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: So, and when you are a busy parent, everything's about balance.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: How do I balance out my needs, my kids' needs?
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: I might be having to meet the needs of my ex or being a good co-parent.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm meeting the needs of my new partner.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um you might have colleagues or business partners, you know, you've got all these things you're trying to balance.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you got the short-term goals, you got the long-term goals, you got financial goals, you got lifestyle goals.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's just always competing demands.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where I felt that a lot of people probably, yeah, they start to feel overwhelmed.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: And how do you get all these things happening well at the same time?
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like picture that that person juggling like eight plates at the same time, sort of thing.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: So that really built out the framework of my book.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and there's there's a few key frameworks in my book.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: One was a thing I call the parental balance model, and that's where you if and this is um within the book, there's an image of this, but it's basically picturing different um different sort of like being on like a tight rope, and on each end of each tight rope are some of those competing demands I said.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: So on it, on one end you might have financial goals, and on another end you might have your lifestyle goals.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like if I go on that holiday, I'm gonna really ramp up my lifestyle goals, but I'm gonna, it's gonna be the impediment of my finances.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: Short-term goals.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I want to go and do these things, but oh, then I'll be taking money away from my retirement, you know, et cetera, et cetera.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: So that was a key thing.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how do we find that balance between these things?
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: And then the other one was a model I developed called the self-wealth method, and self is the structure, emotional needs, lifestyle needs, and financial needs.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I loved the fact that financial came last because it was highlighting the fact that finances are important.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously, as a financial advisor, I spend a lot of time on that with people.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: But we all know someone with$50 million who's not happy, who's single, who's depressed, who's got issues, and so I was like, let's feed everything else into that as well as concentrating on that as well.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: So that built out kind of this the story behind how people can get good outcomes in all those different areas of their life, get that balance, um, and factor in all of their needs to achieve financial success, but also achieve happiness, um, a good family life, um, health, wellness, all these other factors.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not about you know financial jargon and boring facts and figures.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's you know, stories, it's examples, it's um real life things about me or clients with obviously their, you know, you know, not saying their names and things like anonymous, yeah.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um and kind of takes readers on a bit of a journey of these different facets that are often the key parts of uh a busy parent's life.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I've yeah, probably the main feedback from people is they they find it very easy to read, and that's probably not something a lot of people say about personal finance books.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, very practical.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and yeah, that they're able to take inspiration and motivation from it to want to then act on doing something that's going to improve outcomes in whether it be their finances or maybe somewhere else in their life.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love it.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_02: I love it.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I also love that you talk about directing um time, energy, and money.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_02: So, not just the money, but the time and the energy to where it brings the greatest financial and lifestyle rewards.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_02: I love that part of your shtick, your message.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: What does that actually look like?
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_02: What does that look like for everyday parents, especially for a single parent?
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, there's not too many people in the world who have finite time, energy, and mate.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um sorry, infinite time, energy, and mate.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: Or even one of them.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's they're they're our critical resources, and most of them are in many cases stretched.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: So we wish we had more time either for ourselves or with our kids or wherever it might be.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we all want to be at our optimum energy levels, but that doesn't come without effort and looking after yourself.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and even if it does, you still got a lot on your plate, and um that can be drained easily.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: And same with finances.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it either takes a long time to build, or in some cases, it's even with a lot of effort.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: We might be in a career that we're really passionate about, but maybe we don't earn a lot of money.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and there's there can be challenges for different reasons on the financial side, and then of course, kids are extremely expensive.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_02: So any parents and your energy as well as your finance.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: So any parent knows that that's being uh sucked sucked out of them by kids no matter what.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: So basically, if we know that, and we know we've only got access to so much of these things, we don't want to waste them.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: So we don't be wasting time, energy, or money on things that aren't giving us a significant payoff.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: So in my book, there's a chapter called can't remember the exact, I think it's the the pull, the private school, and the Porsche.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so I tell a real-life story about our house where we were talking thinking about putting a pull.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: And then it's like, okay, some people might want to pull, some people might want to Porsche, and some people might think that private school education is the only way to go and really important for how they want to educate their kids.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: Only some people can do all three of those.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like which one of these is most important?
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: And they're all they're all first world items deliberately, because it's just to give examples of hey, if you're going to go after some big ticket items here, which ones is it going to be?
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: And are they, are you sure that you're going to get a high enough payoff from putting a significant amount of money into them?
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so it's just it's just pointing out to people that not most of us can't have every single thing we want without without having some form of detrimental effect on either our time, our energy, or our money.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: So you need to choose wisely and have an awareness, but also spend some time looking at what am I already doing that's eating into any of those things that I can now see is not actually giving me a significant payoff.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: And if I took away from a place that's not rewarding me and could then put it into something else that would give me greater rewards, then that would make sense.
• 26:12
  unknown: Yeah.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: Because I feel like a lot of people do things because it's become a habit, a routine, or their neighbor does it, or their friend does it, or they used to do it when they're in their relationship, or whatever it might mean.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: But have you actually sat and thought, hey, I'm gonna have a strategy?
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm actually gonna be clear on what are my real goals, what are my real needs, what are my real hopes and dreams and desires, and what stuff do I truly care about?
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: So to use, say, a simpler, lower cost example, but ones that get used really often in kind of finance talk.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, you've got the gym membership and you haven't been for a year.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: For me, I love keeping fit, but I actually love exercising outside.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I run out along the bay trails and stuff like that.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, it's like, why would I pay for a gym membership?
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: A, it's costing me money, and B, I actually don't need or want it.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: So it's that sort of example where it's like just assess and be clear on where you're putting your resources that's gonna give you maximum payment.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_02: I love it.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I had a conversation with my about to turn 23-year-old just about end.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and she's saving for a particular, she's actually saving to travel.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_02: And we were out together shopping, and she looked at something, it's a want, and she knows it's a want.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_02: It's a want.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_02: And she looked at it, tried it on, assessed it, walked away thinking my financial resources are otherwise allocated to the tree.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and then later in the day, she looked at me and she said, I really want those, the pair of shoes.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_02: I really want those shoes, and I know that I will wear them across time.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_02: So, cost per wear, I'm going to buy them.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_02: You know, so I really loved her thinking around it.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_02: And it wasn't that I can't afford those.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_02: She could have bought them like that.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_02: I could have bought them for, but I wasn't going to.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_02: It was just thinking around, no, my financial resources are allocated elsewhere.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_02: And that's a strategic line that I've fed my kids over time, not I can't afford it, I don't have the money for it.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um I'm saving to travel.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_02: But then that thinking of I really want them and I know they're valuable, they'll be valuable across time, therefore, I'm willing to take a little bit from the long term and put it down.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, great example.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_02: And like probably because those beautiful shoes are going to give her every time she wears.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_02: And there's value to that.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_02: There's value in that.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where I think a lot of people get that they don't understand that financial advice, financial planning, even if you do it without an advisor, it will bring you more money and more of the things you want in life, materially or whatever, not less.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of people think it's just, oh, there's going to be tons of money, but I can't touch it or enjoy it.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: But when you have an actual plan and a strategy that says, these are the things I'm trying to get in my life, whether it's shoes or a massive portfolio, you start having an actual thought process about what you're doing.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: And you cut out all the noise, you cut out the next shining thing that comes around the corner, you cut out what people say to you that have no idea about who you are or what you're trying to do, or what the next influencer says that they're trying to sell.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: And you do you, and you get the things that you have worked out and actually put some time into thinking about are important to you.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, that's that's what it's all about.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: And um, yeah, love the the story about your your daughter, and it's a great example.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_02: All right, Josh, if a parent, whatever, whatever stage of relationship, if a parent is listening to this and they're feeling financially stuck, overwhelmed, where where do they start?
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we've talked about get the getting it clear on the 95.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_02: Is there anything else?
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_02: Is there anything else that you would suggest?
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_02: I actually I would suggest read Josh's book.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_02: So get clear on um read Josh's book.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_02: What's next step?
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_02: What do you think?
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, and with the the book comment, like this isn't a podcast about plugging my book because I'm actually happy to give my book to people for free.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: So feel free to reach out, get my book.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: I wrote the book because it allows me to help more people.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: I can't consult to us, you know, the only saying who you can consult to and help.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: So this isn't about me making money off book sales.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: People want the book, it's there for free, more than happy to share it.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: But that is actually, I hadn't even thought to say that.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, the book is actually might take you four or five hours to read, and you've got 20 years of lessons in there.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: So really worthwhile checking that out.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we spoke a bit about knowing your financial position.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: So, where I always start with people is what's your current situation?
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, sometimes people don't know all things, the rocks to look under and questions to ask.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: So that's where some things can get missed if you don't get help with it.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: But if you do want to just do your best to go, right, I'm gonna get really clear on my current financial situation, and that's what we already spoke about.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: So that's definitely step one.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: Step two is what are my what are my goals?
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: Am I 40 and I want to retire at 45 and I'm just zeroing in on that?
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: Or am I, no, I actually love working.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think I'll work in some form probably till the day I'd like some passionate about it, so I don't need to worry about having a huge retirement nest egg.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: I want to see a hundred countries or you know, whatever.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: So, what are your goals financial-wise, lifestyle-wise, etc.?
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: So sitting with yourself and a journal or a computer or whatever, and just letting that come through is really important because that's when you're getting clear on I'm here now and I'm aiming at these targets.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: The third part is what is the best way to get there?
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: What are the strategies?
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: What are the investments?
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: What are the financial management tools or systems or things that I need that are going to get me there most efficiently?
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: And they could plug that into Chat GPT and see what it says, or they can read a book or listen to a podcast or read my book and try and do it themselves, or they can yeah, seek advice and get that professional help.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: So they're they're the three current situation, goals, best strategies, and investments.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_02: I love it.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um this is quite this is a question that we didn't talk about ahead of time, but I'm sure you'll be fine with it.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_02: Talk to me about the emotion of money, right?
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's not something we've touched on.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_02: We've gone quite strategically, but you started to talk about it a little bit when you were talking about, you know, the Porsche pool and the not the puppy, I can't remember what the other one was.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_02: The poor anyway, the Porsche of the pool and the private school.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_02: And you spoke about, you know, the neighbors have it.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that's one kind of emotion about money, but what do you see when people come to you?
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_02: And and I think I would like you to speak, particularly in the separation divorce kind of client and space.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_02: How does emotion impact our money stuff?
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, there's no doubt if you if you want to call it emotion or psychology, um, either words probably appropriate.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: No doubt that it's a huge part of people's um approaches to money, a huge part of their success or failure around money.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I won't propose to be the expert in this, but I know there are experts out there out there who purely focus on digging down into the fact that some people have certain psychological and emotional things within them or their past or their traits that mean they're not good with money.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: So that's you know, success or failure with money can sometimes come down to a lot of that.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: So there's no doubt that that is true.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_01: And then there's different examples, like I'll get onto the divorce one, but the one I did for East, for example, is most of the time our retirees need to or could spend a lot more money, but they've become so used to thinking about security and saving and not messing it up and whatever that they that's hard for them to spend even when we show them you can't.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: So that's one example of kind of a counterintuitive thing that hey, you worked all your life, you can now enjoy it.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, oh no, I won't enjoy it.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: But it's only them self-limiting themselves.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'd say there's some similarities with people going through or coming out of separation divorce because there's you know, there might be fear or uncertainty, or I'm on my own now, or I've got less than you know, it's been cut in half, or whatever the percentage might be, or I used to have this other person supporting me with their income or with their help in other areas of our life that I now need to cover.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's it's about not just sort of hiding away from that, I think is the important thing.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: So actually going, hey, what is going on for me with money?
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: And how do I get good with it?
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_01: And that's not just understanding financial management strategies, that's understanding you know, the emotion and psychology side of money.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I think the main thing about bringing that topic up is yeah, it's good that people can hear that and be aware of it, and therefore know that that is a topic in itself that may need to be uncovered for them and um could be a key part of them being more successful with with their finances.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we've all got a little money story or a big money story.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_02: Anytime, anytime we hit a point of life change, be it retiring, be it separation, be it divorce, yeah, it's a real I think it's an opportunity to look at not just the strategy around money, but our thinking and our feeling about money and kind of gonna use the word reinvent it, but I guess reinvent or rewrite it so that it leads us and supports us through whatever the next chapter is.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, last question, or second last question, actually.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, one piece of advice, one thing that you wish every parent knew about creating financial stability, building wealth, while also creating a rich family life.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'd probably go back to the the balance um discussion point, and also there's a section in my book where I talk about how you essentially carve up your money into different areas of your life.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um so it's it's basically we've got we and our kids have necessities.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_01: We need to eat, we need a roof over our head, and we need clothes on our back.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: So those are your sort of your basic living needs.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: All right, how much do I feel I need for that?
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: Then you've got more things that are wants, but they are still in many cases important and desired.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: So you the shoes that your daughter built, um travel, going out, doing things with friends, family, eating out, um things like that where you can survive without them, but you wouldn't really enjoy life and it wouldn't be much fun.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_01: And then the third part is actually investing money so that you can grow and you can become financially secure, and you can retire one day and not have to rely on earning an income, and you can take advantage of things like compounding interest and how money actually works, and how investments can give you a tailwind behind your money, and things like old sayings like get your money working for you, and and these sorts of things.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: If you aren't actually putting it into places that generate returns, especially returns beyond inflation and beyond the cost of living, then financially you're actually going backwards.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what I would say is is come up with a structure, and you can teach your kids this as well, because if they can understand that from a young age, that's setting them up for financial success.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_01: Because the other biggest factor in becoming financially free and and wealthy is time.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_01: So the earlier someone employs this methodology, the better.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't like to use dollar amounts with this.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_01: So say there were three categories, I like to use percentages because over time our resource dollar-wise will change.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_01: If we're 18 working at McDonald's, our income's gonna be different to when we're 38 and might have a professional career.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_01: But if we determine at 18 that we're gonna put, and I'm just making up all these numbers, it's all individual.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna put 20% of my money into investments that will grow and give me a great future or allow me to make my money become worth more, even if I choose to spend that money one day.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: Then if I keep doing that at 38 when I'm earning five times what I was, that 20% is a much bigger figure.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so work out what works for you.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_01: How much do you need for survival?
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: How much do you need for enjoyment and lifestyle?
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then how much do you then want to also set aside in a structured, repeatable, implemented way?
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_01: Doesn't rely on you manually going at the end of each month, oh, I will put this here if it's left.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's no, that is already allocated.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you can employ that habit consistently over time, then you'll be able to feel much more relaxed about money.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_01: You'll feel like you know your basic needs are definitely going to be met.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_01: You'll feel like your enjoyment of day-to-day and week-to-week life is there as well.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_01: And you'll also sleep well at night knowing that hey, I'm I'm on top of this.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm also catering to actually giving myself options and choices and a future to do something differently if I want to.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_01: So hopefully that's helpful for people to think about.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's simple enough and supportive enough that almost anybody from the you know teenagers in our lives who are working at part-time jobs, McDonald's, whatever, rights can adopt that.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's great.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, Josh, finally, where can our listeners find you, connect with you?
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sure.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm an owner in a business called Prosper Advisory, P-R-O-S-P-E-R advisory, where accountants, business advisors, and financial advisors.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a team of 11 of us in Melbourne.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_01: So jump on prosperadvisory.com.au.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I'm in all the usual places like LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, um, either just my name, Josh Pennell, or as you said earlier, the the family finance guy.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um and yeah, there's things out there, different different tools and resources we have that are free um on our website.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_01: You can get my book for free on the website, etc.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_01: So feel free to jump on and um get hold of of some of those things that hopefully are helpful.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_02: Awesome.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I will drop links to your website in the show notes um so listeners can really easily connect with you and find your your book and your resources.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_02: Josh, thank you so much for your time and sharing your wisdom and your knowledge and your and your life experience with us.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's been a great conversation.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks so much.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_01: Nah, thanks for having me.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_01: Really enjoyed it.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_02: I really hope you enjoyed this conversation with Josh Pennell, the family finance guy.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_02: As I said, the link to Josh's website is in the show notes.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_02: So jump on there and download your free copy of his book if that's something that resonates with you.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_02: We'd love to know what you thought about the episode.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_02: Please feel free to message me, leave a comment on the podcast.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_02: We would love to hear from you.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_02: And as always, if there is somebody in your life who would benefit from listening to this conversation, please please feel free to share it with them.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_02: Until next week, bye for now.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_02: I'm Dalianne Hartner, the fourth coach and strategist, and you've been listening to Reflect, Reclaim, and Liberate.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_02: You can follow me on Instagram at Reflect Coaching.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_02: And if you can think of anyone who would love or benefit from listening to this episode, please share it with them.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_02: I'd also be so grateful if you would follow and review the podcast and getting a whole lot more people just like you who are ready to reclaim and liberate themselves in life and live.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_02: I hope you'll join me next week for another episode of Replay and Liberate.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.