Latest / Muppet Fan Podcasts with ToughPigs.com / Fraggle Talk Episode 13 - "All of Us" with Executive Producers John Tartaglia ("Gobo Fraggle") and Halle Stanford

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Fraggle Talk Episode 13 - "All of Us" with Executive Producers John Tartaglia ("Gobo Fraggle") and Halle Stanford · Muppet Fan Podcasts with ToughPigs.com

• 0:17
  Hello and welcome to fraggle, talk.
• 0:20
  The Unofficial Fraggle, Rock podcast, brought to you by tough
• 0:23
  fix.com. This is the podcast where we
• 0:25
  cover Fraggle. Rock back to the Rock Episode by
• 0:28
  episode along with a talented Ooh, sirs performers, writers
• 0:31
  and Builders who helped put it all together.
• 0:33
  I'm your host silly creature Johannes.
• 0:35
  Today we are talking about back to The Rock's first season
• 0:38
  finale, all of us in which everything comes to an end for
• 0:43
  now. Our first guest today is a
• 0:46
  returning friend of the rock. You've heard literally every one
• 0:49
  of our previous fraggle, talk guests, sing his praises and
• 0:52
  you've heard him on this podcast as our fraggle fast facts,
• 0:56
  presenter on back to the Rock, he's an executive producer as
• 0:59
  well. As the performer behind and
• 1:01
  Below Gobo fraggle. The architect doozer sprocket
• 1:04
  and Barry blueberry. We are extremely pleased to
• 1:06
  welcome. John tartaglia back to the
• 1:08
  podcast. Hello, I'm back.
• 1:10
  Hi. And also joining us for portions
• 1:13
  of this episode is a special special guest.
• 1:16
  She is an executive producer on back to the Rock.
• 1:19
  The Jim Henson company's, president of television and most
• 1:22
  importantly, the co-presenter of this podcast dig deeper segment.
• 1:26
  We're excited to welcome, Hallie Stanford back to the podcast.
• 1:29
  Hi, Hallie hello. I'm sliding into the Rock so
• 1:36
  glad to have you both here. It really and honestly would not
• 1:38
  be the same to wrap up this podcast without both of the two
• 1:42
  of you. So thank you so much for being
• 1:43
  here. We've already here at the last
• 1:46
  episode. Last episode.
• 1:46
  You're here for the first episode.
• 1:48
  Yeah. You both technically in every
• 1:49
  episode. Yeah, that's true.
• 1:50
  Yeah. So first of all, Johnny, can you
• 1:54
  tell us where are we? Where are we, right?
• 1:57
  This moment this moment where this moment we are, Very special
• 2:00
  cave. Is the fraggles would say we are
• 2:02
  in the conference room here at the Jim Henson company which is
• 2:06
  filled with lots of wonderful artifacts of Henson.
• 2:09
  History aughra from The Dark. Crystal some awesome fashion
• 2:14
  from The Dark Crystal and a very special special mural that hung
• 2:19
  in the lobby of the old Muppet Mansion in New York City that
• 2:22
  Jim commissioned himself. And it's one of my favorite
• 2:24
  parts of being here at the company.
• 2:26
  I was going to say, it's one of my favorite things in the whole
• 2:28
  world. I just like Describe it Johnny.
• 2:31
  It's, it's amazing. Yeah, it's literally, it's every
• 2:35
  Muppet character that had ever been created.
• 2:38
  And some up at character up until I think it was 1987 when
• 2:41
  it was commissioned, is that right?
• 2:44
  And it's amazing. It's it, me literally, you name
• 2:46
  a Muppet character or Henson character.
• 2:48
  They're all in this gorgeous, gorgeous painting and when it
• 2:51
  was in them. The Henson Mansion in New York
• 2:55
  City, there were theater seat, sitting in front of it.
• 2:57
  All the Muppet, it's like the Muppet Show theater is filled
• 2:59
  with all of our handsome. Friends and they used to be
• 3:01
  Theater Red theater seats, sitting in front of it.
• 3:03
  So you could basically be sitting with those characters in
• 3:05
  the lobby. It was really awesome.
• 3:06
  It's a very famous photo of Jim. I'm sure everyone out there.
• 3:08
  Listening is seen it sitting in front of this mural so it's
• 3:11
  really cool to be to be here in the room with that.
• 3:13
  It is yeah, we're getting word. That it was from 1986, the
• 3:16
  sorry, 1986 that was close. You were very close.
• 3:19
  I also one time created a quiz online on the website,
• 3:23
  Sparkle.com, where you have to identify all the characters in
• 3:26
  there, it's surprisingly hard, it is.
• 3:28
  I so many of them, I'm Horrified to say with all the nerd
• 3:31
  knowledge, I have, there are characters and I'm like, what's
• 3:34
  that character's name? We also are getting a correction
• 3:37
  on that 1986. It was actually 1984 was a typo.
• 3:40
  We're just gonna be breaking news.
• 3:46
  Well, in any case, we're not here to talk about this mural,
• 3:48
  which does have many fraggles in it.
• 3:49
  We're here to talk about Fraggle, Rock, the end of this
• 3:52
  first season of yes, to the Rock.
• 3:54
  So, can you both tell me how did things change for you as
• 3:57
  executive producers between? One and episode 13.
• 4:02
  That is a how you should you should go first because you
• 4:05
  really got to see it all from the outside of the set.
• 4:09
  Yeah, so call me inside out and I'll talk about the outside in
• 4:13
  well by the end. I mean it was such a beautiful
• 4:17
  culture that was created on the set and so much joy and it was
• 4:23
  such an accomplishment of course, from the from the
• 4:25
  Fraggle Rock story point of view.
• 4:27
  But also just think about when we produced it.
• 4:29
  It in covid. So we did it.
• 4:33
  We, when we got to the end and we were like, we did it.
• 4:36
  We did it. We made it.
• 4:38
  And we were so tight as a group, and it was very Bittersweet, we
• 4:43
  were very sad. I mean, I remember PA is crying
• 4:46
  when we were doing our last shots and also I you know, we
• 4:50
  dedicated every last shot, different departments and
• 4:54
  everybody would cheer. This shot goes out to the
• 4:56
  lighting department. We can like what so it was super
• 4:59
  Joyful in the end and we were just kind of like amazing
• 5:03
  running Machine by the end, I was just so proud, and it was
• 5:06
  just very, very loving. And you know, II, you know,
• 5:11
  fingers crossed and new season, they'll be new challenges.
• 5:14
  I'm not saying that everything, you know, we figured it all out.
• 5:17
  You know every single episode is a new fun challenge but we just
• 5:21
  were this incredible team in the end and it felt so good.
• 5:26
  We were kind of like all the characters in the finale, right?
• 5:29
  They all Came together the gorgs the fraggles to Doozers everyone
• 5:34
  doc sprocket. So I don't know, that's kind of
• 5:36
  how we all were in the end for this point finale where as we're
• 5:39
  just getting to know each other in the beginning, I would agree
• 5:42
  with that. I think it was the same way, you
• 5:44
  know, being on set inside the characters and under the
• 5:47
  characters is, you know, we naturally became a family and
• 5:53
  every single Puppeteer felt connected to each other.
• 5:57
  We, you know, even though it was during like, how he said,
• 5:59
  Covid-19 avaria stressful time in a very scary time.
• 6:02
  It was almost like you know a kind of matched the Journey of
• 6:06
  all of us on set kind of matched what was happening in the world
• 6:09
  and the sense of you know, we were on a journey together and
• 6:13
  we were, you know, in this completion sense where there was
• 6:16
  hope at the end of this last episode and that's kind of where
• 6:20
  we were in the real world, because all of a sudden,
• 6:22
  vaccines were rolling out and there were, you know, there were
• 6:25
  positive things happening back in the world.
• 6:27
  Things were opening back up again slowly as we kind of
• 6:29
  Re-emerge from Fraggle Rock. But there are lots of Tears.
• 6:33
  Lots of moments of just trying to really soak it in and I think
• 6:37
  what's really great that Holly said that, I totally agree with
• 6:39
  is that every Department was firing on the highest possible
• 6:43
  cylinder at that point. And it happened out in that last
• 6:46
  episode that we had a lot of, you know, unknown challenges to
• 6:50
  figure out like how do you shoot the fraggles underneath a bridge
• 6:53
  in the gorgs garden and you know, we could have just done it
• 6:56
  all on blue screen but then the, you know, incredible art
• 6:59
  Department. And production department at
• 7:02
  Tyler here in our brilliant protections that are they
• 7:04
  designed an actual scale Gorge Bridge that we shot under and so
• 7:09
  it was just like the so set an art Department working at the
• 7:11
  highest level and the puppets were the puppet Department was
• 7:13
  working at their highest level and the the lighting everything
• 7:17
  everything was at its highest. So it just felt like we had
• 7:19
  worked our way to this completion and it helped that we
• 7:22
  ended by shooting the actual last episode which doesn't
• 7:25
  always happen. Sometimes you shoot completely
• 7:26
  out of order. Sure.
• 7:28
  And we actually got to end by During that episode and it was
• 7:31
  the message of one heart. We're all in it together and it
• 7:33
  just it just kind of felt very. Honestly, it was spiritual but
• 7:37
  it did feel that way. It felt very like we had, we do
• 7:39
  this, this, like hero's journey all together to try to get there
• 7:43
  for sure. Yeah.
• 7:44
  I can only imagine what was the last shot?
• 7:46
  I mean, we probably talked about it when we talk about this
• 7:48
  episode, oh my God, you filmed. I'm trying to think what's the
• 7:52
  last shot. I think it was.
• 7:55
  I think it was something on, blue-screen funny enough.
• 7:59
  And I think it might And if you're right five I think it
• 8:01
  might have been the fraggle five singing together.
• 8:04
  I think that's right. I think that's exactly what it
• 8:06
  was like we didn't want to end you know with like just just
• 8:10
  something kind of you know, and there's a hand poke into frame
• 8:14
  and that's last shot. Do something that at least was
• 8:17
  like the fraggles all together so that's nice.
• 8:19
  It was really nice. And I think it was a yeah.
• 8:22
  I just it just kind of felt like we were all exhausted because it
• 8:25
  was a very long, you know, very intense process and it was hard
• 8:28
  work. But But we actually ended my
• 8:31
  favorite memory of the entire thing is all the puppeteers
• 8:34
  gather together and kind of a huddle at the end, we all were
• 8:37
  crying together and just like thanking each other and you know
• 8:40
  it you can imagine for everybody was a different Journey for
• 8:43
  Karen, probably come back and you know, play this character
• 8:46
  again she never thought she was going to get to play again.
• 8:48
  You know so many years later and then for Jordan you know
• 8:51
  Lockhart who was this is first time ever playing Wembley you
• 8:54
  know is all these different experiences that all kind of
• 8:58
  ever had a different Journey We all got to celebrate the end of
• 9:00
  it together. That's wonderful.
• 9:02
  I love that. And I mean, so I have this
• 9:05
  question written down. I feel like I know the answer.
• 9:06
  So I'm going to tweak it, but my question that I was going to ask
• 9:09
  is how do you feel about the quality of the show as a whole?
• 9:12
  And I mean, obviously it's the quality is high, we can all see
• 9:15
  that on the screen, but on the reverse of that, is there
• 9:20
  anything that you look back on the season of the show that you
• 9:23
  go? Yeah.
• 9:23
  I just wish that we could, uh, you could have tweak that a
• 9:25
  little bit or just elevate, it, just slightly. well, Johnny, I
• 9:29
  would say that you know, we We are hope and dream would be just
• 9:32
  more fraggles, right? Like more cool fraggles and
• 9:35
  more, you know, just kind of being able to build up the
• 9:39
  community. Do anything puppet?
• 9:41
  Yeah, I think it's funny. I mean, I and I say this and I'm
• 9:45
  really hard on myself. I never am 100% happy with
• 9:47
  anything I do. I'm really tough on myself but I
• 9:51
  watched the episodes now. As you know, especially months,
• 9:53
  after we completed them and going, these are I'm proud of
• 9:56
  these. These are not great.
• 9:58
  I would say that Holly's, right? Like, the one thing that I would
• 10:00
  always say, say is, oh my God, we need like 30 more puppeteers.
• 10:03
  Because that beautiful fraggle, Great Hall.
• 10:05
  Set was so big that even though we had a total of 25 puppeteers
• 10:10
  on our biggest days, it was like they're still not enough people.
• 10:13
  So I think that's one thing I would love to do is just put
• 10:15
  yeah, like a hundred more fraggles in that great hall and,
• 10:19
  you know, you always find little things.
• 10:20
  You think, you know, as Puppeteer as we are so hard on
• 10:23
  ourselves like it's rare, we ever look at a shot and go that
• 10:26
  was fantastic. We're always finding something
• 10:28
  we could do better. In fact, it drives our
• 10:29
  directors. Easy in our producers crazy.
• 10:32
  We're always like one more take. We could get a better one more
• 10:34
  take. So, there's little things that I
• 10:36
  catch that I'm like, oh, I wish I could fix that or wish I could
• 10:39
  have nudged out a little bit or whatever.
• 10:41
  But I think overall, I just feel like, you know, we again because
• 10:45
  every Department was giving everything they had, I look at
• 10:48
  some of these shots and I'm like, wow that looks that looks
• 10:51
  pretty great like and it's nice to feel that.
• 10:53
  Yes. It feels so proud of something.
• 10:54
  You've worked on for sure. Yeah that definitely shows on
• 10:56
  the screen. Yeah and it shows that everyone
• 10:58
  else on the cast and crew feels the same way.
• 11:00
  Like they wanted to make this look at, they wanted to find
• 11:03
  that that, you know, as close to Perfection as possible.
• 11:06
  Yeah, and I, you know, it's like that as I say that.
• 11:09
  Now, the one thing that pops in my head, as I think the wine and
• 11:11
  I think I could speak for all the puppeteers.
• 11:13
  I since I think the one thing that everyone does tend to get
• 11:16
  really hard on themselves about were always like, oh, it's like
• 11:18
  doozer stuff because there's such particular precise,
• 11:22
  puppets. And there's your so dependent on
• 11:25
  that Servo moving. Exactly as you want, or that
• 11:28
  Rod, that little trigger Rod working exactly like So I think
• 11:31
  as for the Doozers were always like oh I want to get that one.
• 11:35
  One piece better fix that one the moment.
• 11:37
  But again I think I think that's part of what makes the show
• 11:40
  feels organic is that it's all in camera, real puppets.
• 11:44
  So it is what it is but you know, I'm better Wi-Fi, right?
• 11:48
  Johnny liked better wi-fi. Yeah, we did not have good
• 11:52
  Wi-Fi. Hi.
• 11:54
  Not even for like the puppet or just like you got like in
• 11:56
  general, like sometimes it be And communication.
• 12:02
  It was terrible. It was there was not good Wi-Fi,
• 12:05
  that was a. It was like I remember like
• 12:07
  thinking like if that's our biggest problem, we're okay.
• 12:10
  So crafty was good as what you're saying.
• 12:12
  Oh my God, the best crazy ever. Wonderful, that's all I need.
• 12:16
  But I mean I can say as a viewer as someone who's watching and
• 12:20
  this is not a complaint to the quality of the show by any means
• 12:22
  but there's so many things that the show just didn't have enough
• 12:26
  time to get into sure. You'll things like like Junior
• 12:29
  Gordon ever had a song. I know, like we barely saw mom,
• 12:33
  pug or below the waist because they were always in the castle.
• 12:35
  And, yes, you know, I spoke with Lily Cooper recently, and we're
• 12:40
  saying like, maybe like season 2, will be great to get this
• 12:43
  talented Broadway actor, she needs a song to sing a song.
• 12:46
  Yes, exactly. Absolutely agree more.
• 12:54
  Yes. Yeah, really just I mean what
• 12:56
  the the key word is more more of everything.
• 12:59
  Well, it speaks to the world of the original World of rock.
• 13:01
  That was created, that we got the chance to reopen.
• 13:03
  Is that, you know, we found that creating the first season was
• 13:06
  like, oh my gosh, how do you, how do you pick and choose
• 13:09
  because by the end of the first five seasons of the original,
• 13:11
  there was so much lore, and so much of the world that was built
• 13:15
  out. And so many wonderful caves,
• 13:17
  they went to and places. They went through so many
• 13:19
  background characters and us and supporting characters.
• 13:21
  And so many stories about the Doozers and Stories about the
• 13:23
  court. So many stories about Marjorie
• 13:26
  and Philo and gunge. I mean, you could just pick
• 13:28
  from, you know, what I mean. It was like, it was like just
• 13:30
  this unbelievable embarrassment of riches that you could pull
• 13:33
  from. And so we actually had that
• 13:34
  problem where sometimes you'd be like and let's add this
• 13:36
  character. Now, we don't have time for it,
• 13:38
  you know, I mean, we were so lucky to have that.
• 13:40
  So I think that, you know, should the show continued, we
• 13:43
  could really pull from even more that was laid out before and
• 13:46
  create brand new start. I, I was pushing pretty hard for
• 13:50
  new characters and new mythology, you know, because I
• 13:53
  knew we had the strong stable, you know, we have the fraggle
• 13:55
  five and we were bringing back, you know, beloved characters.
• 13:58
  But, you know, I pushed really hard for things.
• 14:00
  Like I see Joe and jam Dylan and the archivist, which I think is
• 14:05
  such a funny character, and then we get to meet the crackles.
• 14:08
  Like I, you know, I just wanted us to push our own lore and add
• 14:11
  our own can until. So, so it's good to hear, you
• 14:16
  know, more of the same. Yes, yes.
• 14:20
  The film fans want that as well. You know.
• 14:22
  It's built in. The skeleton of the show, you
• 14:24
  don't just more like more and more stuff that's just down that
• 14:27
  cave, that we haven't looked on me.
• 14:29
  That's all right. Yeah, exactly.
• 14:31
  So during the course of this podcast series that we've done,
• 14:34
  literally, I mean, I wasn't joking.
• 14:36
  Everyone is sung your Praises. Like both of you of how great of
• 14:40
  a work environment, it's been, what is the secret?
• 14:44
  Because it's not true for. It's not even just filming, you
• 14:48
  know, TV and films, and stuff like that.
• 14:49
  It's it's any workplace. Yeah, it doesn't have that
• 14:52
  feeling. Thing that you have created for
• 14:54
  this show. So what is the secret behind
• 14:57
  creating a positive workplace? Well, I think it's a couple
• 15:00
  things. I mean, you know, growing up and
• 15:02
  learning about Jim and the Muppets and the original team
• 15:06
  and the original set of performers and the original
• 15:08
  Productions, you know, the thing that you would hear about all of
• 15:10
  those Productions was, how people always felt valued on a
• 15:14
  Jim Henson set. You know that he took in
• 15:17
  everyone's ideas that he cared about how people felt about
• 15:20
  things that he, you know, didn't run a set.
• 15:23
  I intimidation or by negativity, he ran it by inclusive you know
• 15:28
  be inclusive and and welcoming everyone's energies and
• 15:31
  recognizing the talent. So I think when you grow up
• 15:33
  hearing that and you dream of getting to play a part in that
• 15:37
  and also someday hopefully making your own stuff like I
• 15:40
  just I know for me personally I tried to think about that.
• 15:44
  I think Holly and I both come from the same place of like
• 15:46
  we're creating this Fantastical comedic, beautiful utopian
• 15:52
  world. Oh, and how horrid would that be
• 15:55
  to work on a show? That's all about that.
• 15:57
  And then have the production be the most like, you know, scary,
• 16:01
  you know, browbeating intimidating, place to come to
• 16:05
  work. And unfortunately, you know,
• 16:07
  when you work in Hollywood, long enough, you hear about a lot of
• 16:09
  our favorite comedies that we all grew up with that actually
• 16:11
  was the, the atmosphere on the set but I find, you know, maybe
• 16:15
  this is also from coming from a theater background which I know
• 16:17
  highly comes from to, like, you know, we know theater, it's all
• 16:20
  about collaboration and it's all about, you know, Working
• 16:24
  together to make the best possible product and that every
• 16:27
  Department. Every performer, every artist
• 16:30
  has value and everyone's contributions equal the whole.
• 16:33
  So I think that that's kind of where we came from.
• 16:36
  And also, it's just like, we're making Fraggle Rock.
• 16:39
  You know what I mean? Like, well, how lucky are we all
• 16:42
  to stand on that set and make this show?
• 16:43
  So we just tried to kind of and I try to come in every day with
• 16:46
  a positive attitude. Even when it was stressful you
• 16:48
  but it was crazy. You know, it sometimes Holly
• 16:49
  Knight privately in our trailers would be like there was stuff.
• 16:53
  Going on that, we get to vent to each other about, but you have
• 16:55
  to kind of present that positive atmosphere.
• 16:58
  A lot of Hollywood, you think? Well, I have a lot to say about
• 17:01
  this because I run hundreds and hundreds of hours of production
• 17:05
  at Henson and it's always been, you know, that way I, you know,
• 17:10
  and I'll talk about, you know, they're definitely happen
• 17:12
  Productions. Where there are more intense
• 17:14
  talent that we are managing on the production and that's my job
• 17:18
  to manage them. But yes, it does.
• 17:21
  All start I was raised in the tradition.
• 17:23
  I mean For the company. 27 years, I was raised by Alex
• 17:26
  Rockwell and Brian Henson. Alex Rockwell having been Jim
• 17:28
  Henson's assistant and then ultimately took over television.
• 17:32
  So, I was raising the DNA of how Productions are run at the.
• 17:36
  Jim Henson company has all the things Johnny are saying, we do
• 17:38
  want every show, I would say. What is unique about Fraggle
• 17:42
  Rock? Is that how you had the
• 17:46
  intention of bringing in the 18 talent that had joyful positive
• 17:50
  attitudes and there was no taller.
• 17:53
  Curren for anything else. I remember having and sometimes,
• 17:56
  I felt like, like, you know, I was I'm definitely like a
• 18:00
  motherly type character, but mom also has a sometimes pull you
• 18:02
  aside. And be like, listen here, you
• 18:04
  don't talk that with your brother.
• 18:06
  So I actually took on that role, so Johnny didn't have to be
• 18:09
  that, right? I didn't have to be dad, but
• 18:13
  definitely like people weren't allowed to get away with it.
• 18:16
  If it happened. And there was, you know, it was
• 18:18
  very gentle communication about like, it was all for the best of
• 18:21
  the show, right? Like, I Philosophy and
• 18:24
  production that you know that people are acting weird and and
• 18:28
  doing weird behaviors it's usually coming from a place of
• 18:31
  fear and and then my job is to turn them back to a place of
• 18:35
  love and that sounds really corny.
• 18:36
  But it's true in a place of Love, is can equal trust passion
• 18:40
  for the show. And so the minute I would smell
• 18:43
  fear in somebody, it was like take them aside.
• 18:45
  Let's, let's get them to that positive Place.
• 18:48
  How can we support you, how can we help you?
• 18:52
  And then we get them back on. Track.
• 18:53
  Like it's like identifying it immediately.
• 18:56
  The other thing about Fraggle Rock was we decided to celebrate
• 19:00
  more than any other production, you know, here, we all were up
• 19:04
  in Calgary in the freezing cold in a pandemic.
• 19:06
  We were like food truck every week.
• 19:10
  Ice cream for everyone. Chocolate for everyone.
• 19:14
  I would like, you know, I remember for, you know, one day
• 19:19
  flowers for every Puppeteer in their trailer, I went bottom.
• 19:23
  It. Like, we made sure to celebrate
• 19:25
  celebrate celebrate more than any other production, and I
• 19:29
  think it paid off Johnny. Yeah, it made everyone feel like
• 19:33
  there was something to look forward to.
• 19:34
  And like, you know, especially when you're four months into a
• 19:37
  six-month shoot, you know, I mean, it's physically difficult.
• 19:40
  I mean, really? It's everyone's underslept,
• 19:41
  everyone's physically tired. And so, just sometimes it was,
• 19:45
  it was hilarious to watch. Everyone's excitement on like a
• 19:48
  Friday where it's like there's a coffee truck, but it was like
• 19:51
  the most you would think that like it was Like Ed McMahon
• 19:54
  would like the million-dollar publishing Clary, house, checks,
• 19:56
  we were like, oh my God, this is coffee track.
• 19:57
  Like it was the most exciting thing, and it's those little
• 20:00
  small gestures that add up because it just says like, we
• 20:03
  get it. Absolutely.
• 20:05
  And I think every depart, every Department would take that on,
• 20:07
  right? So then yeah, our art Department
• 20:10
  every time, a director would leave.
• 20:12
  They would make them a doozer, you know, of the of themselves
• 20:16
  and then we didn't realize it. But for the very final day, they
• 20:20
  had made Doozers for all the producers and did all this.
• 20:23
  So everybody was contributing to one another in their own way.
• 20:27
  I, you know, I just I thought it was extraordinary in crafty,
• 20:30
  let's bring back crafty, crafty made their own t-shirts for each
• 20:33
  other. That were like rattle crafty so
• 20:35
  sweet, and it was just so fun. So, I would say that like, that
• 20:39
  just kept building that kind of Celebration spirit and it made
• 20:43
  sense for the fraggles. Right?
• 20:44
  You know we also we should also say we had five dollar fraggle
• 20:47
  Friday to where like every day, you know, every Friday we go
• 20:49
  around collecting five bucks and then you know different
• 20:52
  departments would Host it. And then, you know, it would
• 20:54
  just be a random, like you write your name on a Post-It put in $5
• 20:57
  and then whoever's name got pulled would win, you know?
• 21:00
  The, the total and it's it was again like such a fun thing and
• 21:04
  you would like cheer, he be so happy when people one.
• 21:06
  Like there was no jealousy. There is no competition.
• 21:09
  It was just like yay, me one. Like it was like the most joyful
• 21:12
  thing and sometimes Donna as the Storyteller would announce the
• 21:14
  winner course pocket pulled at one time.
• 21:16
  It was just, it just was always about trying to find ways to
• 21:20
  make everyone feel like coming to work was Fun escape as
• 21:24
  opposed to drudgery. Absolutely people felt heard
• 21:27
  they felt her. They knew they could come to the
• 21:28
  producers and be listened to. So I remember what Karen Paul
• 21:31
  came to me. And she was like I see jokes
• 21:33
  really heavy like this is hard and she was really concerned
• 21:37
  because she's such a perfectionist so we figured it
• 21:40
  out, you know, she felt safe enough to come and talk about it
• 21:42
  as opposed to taking on the burn herself or being upset with you
• 21:45
  know the fact that only soldier with the beginning, you know?
• 21:48
  Like all of that she everybody felt that is safe for him to
• 21:51
  work out problems on the Set. And I think that we were told
• 21:56
  that was unique. I was shocked because that's
• 21:59
  how, that's just what it is on the Henson production.
• 22:01
  But to a lot of the other Puppeteer particularly ones in
• 22:04
  Canada like no, no, this is not typical.
• 22:07
  So that kind of surprised Johnny, and I, but we're like,
• 22:09
  well, it is here. So door's always open what a joy
• 22:13
  and definitely bleeds through to the screen.
• 22:17
  Like we can see, we can see all that Joy.
• 22:20
  I was all that collaboration like it.
• 22:23
  Its way through and it makes me more excited for a potential
• 22:27
  second season. Where if you get to do more and
• 22:29
  to know that it's not a toxic workplace.
• 22:32
  It's actually quite you know, collaborative joyful.
• 22:35
  I mean all these other adjectives we keep using over
• 22:37
  and over again. Yeah.
• 22:39
  You know, I would be excited for all the cast and crew.
• 22:42
  I just want to say about post-production, weird.
• 22:45
  Talk to Stage, right? We're talking about the
• 22:47
  production and the writing, but like, our post production crew
• 22:51
  was just as joyful just as amazing and it was all remote,
• 22:55
  right? Like, it was like, it was all
• 22:57
  on, Zoom. Everybody was everywhere.
• 22:59
  I mean, I remember the last day of post, we had a zoom party was
• 23:02
  really fun, but that was a very joyful group to in Christopher,
• 23:06
  Leonard's doing all the score, like he said, it was one of his
• 23:09
  most favorite shows he's ever worked on.
• 23:11
  So, I shout out to the post production crew to, I got to say
• 23:15
  they were Extraordinary. Yeah, they really were terrific.
• 23:18
  Well, John. I wanted to ask you, you've been
• 23:22
  a fraggle expert, an absolute expert at self.
• 23:26
  That's that's a, that's a heavy term to call me an idiot.
• 23:29
  It is. And I say this, I say this with,
• 23:31
  with awe and jealousy, but, you know, because when I understand
• 23:36
  from what I understand, a lot of people were coming to you with
• 23:38
  questions or you were putting in a lot of like input during the
• 23:41
  scripting. Especially but now that you've
• 23:43
  been in trenched in Fraggle Rock Or that entire shoot and now
• 23:47
  bend the post and now the shows have been out for a bit.
• 23:50
  What have you learned about specifically about fraggle or oh
• 23:55
  you did not know before? That's a great question.
• 23:58
  I would say and this is really coming from from Karen Pro.
• 24:02
  I mean I would say Carol Powell is probably the best Fraggle
• 24:06
  Rock expert because you know as you probably know she kept that
• 24:09
  wonderful encyclopedia on set during the original because she
• 24:12
  like was like me like for her the the original version of
• 24:17
  Ragnarok was like being in a Dream World for me, this version
• 24:20
  was like being in a dream world so we would often actually
• 24:23
  consult on said about things and and but just when you think you
• 24:26
  know everything about fraggle or you learn something else and so
• 24:30
  puppets are characters that you're like they can't there's
• 24:33
  no way those puppets have a name and then, you know, someone
• 24:36
  Karen would be like actually those were called the bucket or
• 24:39
  you'd find out that you know just finding out like who
• 24:42
  performed a character on this moment because of, you know,
• 24:45
  There's there's a famous episode of the original series for
• 24:47
  example, where I guess Karen was really sick and she couldn't do
• 24:51
  red fraggle. So Steve Whitmire generally
• 24:53
  entire episode and Karen dubbed it and I liked what I had no
• 24:56
  idea. It doesn't learning all those
• 24:57
  little like fun facts and picking up the background
• 25:01
  puppets, that were a lot more. Some of them were from the
• 25:03
  original and we refurbish to remade, but some from the
• 25:06
  original, you'd look inside their little sleep with their
• 25:08
  tags and you'd be like, oh, that's what they're called.
• 25:10
  So, just when I thought, I knew, you know, as much as any nerd
• 25:14
  can know about, Lor. I'd be like, wait what?
• 25:17
  That's what it's called. So it's and I think that's what
• 25:19
  it is. Is it's this endless and I think
• 25:21
  that speaks to the original series that we try to keep this
• 25:26
  going with prog rock, back to the Rock.
• 25:28
  There was so much detail on thought, put into every single
• 25:31
  frame. You know what puppets were in
• 25:33
  every frame. What is that thing called?
• 25:36
  What would they really be writing in their books?
• 25:37
  What would they really be making in the background?
• 25:39
  What pain, what painting would Mochi really be doing.
• 25:41
  There's all this thought, even like, even all the Doozers,
• 25:44
  like, you know, I love watching it.
• 25:45
  Our series and in the original, like the deuces in the
• 25:47
  background like having a cup of, you know, Joe or something like
• 25:50
  that while there while they're working, or like little little
• 25:52
  little construction worker, B, that they would set up that
• 25:55
  weren't part of the story, but just with their, in case you
• 25:57
  happen to see it like that kind of dedication and learning about
• 26:01
  that. And the fact that there's so
• 26:02
  much more than you even see on the screen.
• 26:04
  That was really cool. I love that, I love all that
• 26:07
  stuff. I love it so much.
• 26:08
  I have nothing to say but I love it well for the moment because
• 26:13
  we're trying to you and I are going to talk about this
• 26:15
  episode. Yes, in great detail but for the
• 26:17
  moment we're going to say a temporary goodbye to Hallie
• 26:20
  because you are a very busy bee. I'm sure you have lots of other
• 26:24
  podcasts records, but we will have you back later in this
• 26:28
  episode. So hang tight.
• 26:30
  Everybody Hallie will be back. And after this extremely short
• 26:34
  break, we will be breaking down the episode.
• 26:36
  All of us with just the two of us.
• 26:52
  All right, Johnny, let's talk about this episode.
• 26:54
  Yes. All right, so we opened with
• 26:56
  Gobo dangling, from a great height.
• 26:58
  Yes, and it's very scary. And when I watch this for the
• 27:01
  first time, I thought that I missed something in the episode
• 27:04
  before I'd like to, I skip an episode like Hawaii is dangling
• 27:08
  and then turns out he's dangling from nothing and it's a whole
• 27:10
  dream sequence. And yes, and we had a lot of
• 27:12
  like not debate. I wouldn't say that we had a lot
• 27:14
  of back and forth trying to figure out like, could we do a
• 27:16
  cold open? Like that, you know, which,
• 27:18
  which is, you know, lingo for when you do something before the
• 27:21
  opening credits, which Not really, ever been done before in
• 27:24
  an episode of Fraggle Rock, but we actually we're really excited
• 27:26
  by the idea of it was like oh that's for that exact reason.
• 27:29
  Like what make everyone go like, what's happening?
• 27:31
  Yeah. No totally worked.
• 27:33
  And obviously you did a lot of this on green screen or blue
• 27:37
  screens. Yeah.
• 27:39
  And a great moment between Gobo and Junior dream.
• 27:42
  Junior here. Yes.
• 27:43
  Where junior is like giving him the answer right off the bat.
• 27:47
  Yeah and then Marjorie comes in all kind of mystical and I used
• 27:51
  to love on the Channel series when Margie would appear in
• 27:54
  their dreams or she would like somehow have this like, you
• 27:57
  know, I'm Nishant way to kind of know exactly what's going on
• 28:00
  with all the different worlds. And so we thought that would be
• 28:03
  fun to bring that back and have her in the dream.
• 28:06
  And right. What is she doing?
• 28:07
  It also feels like a bit of an explanation for like Juniors.
• 28:10
  Not, I'm sorry. I'll go is not just having this
• 28:12
  dream. That's giving me an answer.
• 28:13
  It's like there's some actual like someone's pushing them.
• 28:16
  Yeah. Trying to give them that, that's
• 28:17
  subliminal. Message.
• 28:19
  Yeah, I had that I was never like, confirmed, but We all had
• 28:22
  that idea that, that Marjorie was, you know, at least helping
• 28:26
  to drive it. Right?
• 28:27
  Yeah. Yes.
• 28:29
  Cannon. Why's, that makes a lot of
• 28:30
  sense. But yes, but Junior tells them
• 28:32
  if we're all going to make it, it's going to take all of us.
• 28:34
  Yes, that's the name of the episode.
• 28:36
  Yes it is and go but wakes up and all of his friends were
• 28:39
  there and he tells them that, you know, he had this dream and
• 28:43
  they were huge implants, insane idea to work with the gorgs and
• 28:48
  they think that's hysterical. Yes, which I Loved shooting that
• 28:52
  scene because first of all, we just had a blast doing it.
• 28:56
  But just like it would make me laugh.
• 29:00
  Just all four of them just completely ragging on Gobo,
• 29:03
  which I think is such a fun thing because Gobo oftentimes is
• 29:05
  the hero or he's the leader and he's the respected one.
• 29:09
  So it's always funny I'd to me when everyone kind of turns on
• 29:11
  him a little bit because right when you get to really see Gobo
• 29:14
  stubborn side and it is kind of sore loser side a little bit.
• 29:17
  Yeah, I do like his little scowl and glasses.
• 29:19
  Frenchie face is my favorite thing to play in the So I would
• 29:22
  like I loved using that. That's crunchy face.
• 29:24
  Whenever I could. Yeah, that's good stuff.
• 29:26
  But also like just hit the friends making fun of him a bed.
• 29:29
  It's like, that's what you do with friends.
• 29:30
  Like, you do rag on each other, a little bit, so that makes them
• 29:32
  feel real more real and not to saccharine of like, no Gobo what
• 29:37
  we support you any way, you know, which we do get a lot of
• 29:39
  that but you know, there's a little bit of both.
• 29:41
  Yeah. Well I think that that I mean
• 29:42
  you just nailed something on the head which is like, I think
• 29:44
  that's why when people ask, why, why is Fraggle Rock so
• 29:47
  different? I always say because they're
• 29:49
  written like real, real people, you know, And I get so
• 29:53
  frustrated with kids TV today, when when you see a lot of, you
• 29:57
  know, Executives and television folks who are so scared of like
• 30:00
  showing characters and conflict or teasing each other.
• 30:03
  So it's bad modeling it is but also it's real life.
• 30:06
  And and to me you have to teach kids to learn how to deal with
• 30:09
  that and how we react to it. Like the reaction is just as
• 30:11
  important as the as the accusation I guess you could say
• 30:15
  or the you know the way you it's not to me it's better modeling
• 30:21
  to see how a character Gracefully handle the situation
• 30:23
  like that, then to not show it at all.
• 30:24
  And so I like the fact that you get to watch Gobo decide to
• 30:28
  basically stick with his his guts.
• 30:30
  Like I think that's important, like people are gonna laugh at
• 30:32
  you. Sometimes in life when you have
• 30:33
  a big idea, especially if it is a revolutionary one or it's a
• 30:36
  really game-changing one, right think.
• 30:39
  Think back to all the people who made a difference in history,
• 30:41
  they were usually laughed at the true.
• 30:42
  How do they handle it? There's no way they could have
• 30:44
  back down and gone with what everyone else was saying to do,
• 30:46
  or they could have stood up to their bullies and done the right
• 30:48
  thing. And so I love that go.
• 30:49
  Basically is like, okay, you guys can laugh.
• 30:51
  If you I want but I'm gonna go do this plan, right?
• 30:53
  But also the fraggles are like seems like they have everything
• 30:56
  pretty much handled for the most part of this whole plan of like
• 31:00
  they're working with the Doozers are going to direct the water
• 31:02
  there. Got the vines are going to soak
• 31:04
  up the the pink goo from the pond.
• 31:06
  The wise counsel has its plan to do a sneak attack on the gorgs
• 31:09
  garden with the whole poke projection that, which I think
• 31:11
  is, that's yes. Which we're gonna get to that in
• 31:13
  a second because I want to talk about that scene for sure.
• 31:16
  But like, you know, gobos like, none of the plans.
• 31:19
  Okay, but yeah, yeah, I'm gonna go talk to this this big guy.
• 31:22
  Well I think because of that dream, right?
• 31:24
  He's like, he's like yeah we can do all that but with the one
• 31:26
  thing missing is the gorks, right?
• 31:29
  Yes. At this point we'd have our
• 31:31
  check in with Doc and sprocket Doc is setting up a camera to
• 31:34
  capture the moments. Her bacteria is going to eat the
• 31:38
  plastic. Yes.
• 31:39
  Just real by the way, that's a real.
• 31:41
  That's real. That's a real thing.
• 31:42
  There is a bacteria that will eat plastic.
• 31:44
  It's a hope for the future for us, with the oceans and
• 31:47
  everything, right? And just doc invent it.
• 31:49
  I mean, in my world, she did. Great in real life maybe not but
• 31:54
  let's just say that there is a dock out there who did yes, I
• 31:57
  love it and she has a very smart dog, very smart ass and
• 32:01
  traveling Matt returns. He's coming through the
• 32:02
  workshop. I guess there's this whole
• 32:05
  sequence, word sprocket, barks Adam, and Matt assumes.
• 32:07
  This is part of a distraction to delay him for his own surprise
• 32:11
  party. He's just gonna like go along
• 32:13
  with it which I love and sprocket has this dream sequence
• 32:16
  where he captures Matt dot calls him a genius and gives them this
• 32:19
  oversized dog piss. Yes.
• 32:21
  I loved shooting. That was so much fun, it seemed
• 32:23
  like fun. And did you see that Lily has a
• 32:25
  like a sprocket? It's like a sweater.
• 32:28
  Yeah, yeah. Which I was obsessed with I was
• 32:30
  like, yeah, I want that. Did someone get to take it or is
• 32:34
  it like sitting in wardrobe? I think it's literally sitting
• 32:36
  in a box somewhere right now. I mean sadly use it again
• 32:38
  sometime. I know this a and Lily was
• 32:42
  telling us about how much fun that was because it's so rare
• 32:44
  that she gets to interact with the fraggles.
• 32:46
  Yes. So like this is a rare moment
• 32:48
  where like it's a dream sequence you get to you get to do that.
• 32:50
  They're not just passing out what's wrong.
• 32:51
  Behind you. Yeah, she's not like act like
• 32:53
  they're not there. She actually gets like, look
• 32:55
  them in the eye and, and have him away that.
• 32:56
  Yeah, exactly. And sprocket captures mat under
• 33:00
  a laundry basket and met tells us that he invented pudding,
• 33:05
  which I think is one of the funniest.
• 33:07
  I remember, I read that. I was like, Matt and Alex.
• 33:09
  What is wrong with you? That is brilliant.
• 33:10
  I was wondering if that was written or earlier if that was
• 33:13
  because that also sounds like such a non sequitur.
• 33:15
  No, it was actually it was actually written into the script
• 33:18
  writing was it was I remember reading it.
• 33:20
  I was like, this is So ridiculous, it's brilliant.
• 33:23
  It is brilliant. And I'm actually disappointed
• 33:25
  that we didn't get the entire story of, how, I know.
• 33:27
  Don't you want to know? I don't know.
• 33:29
  I think someone should write a book of all of Matt's stories
• 33:33
  from his perspective which we know we know it's all, you know
• 33:37
  BS but like at the same time it's like yeah it's like how did
• 33:40
  you invent putting when we know for a fact that you didn't
• 33:42
  invent put it. You know he that's the thing
• 33:44
  about a side note, I love about that character especially way
• 33:47
  the day of goals, you know, describes him as he's just like
• 33:51
  He just takes a situation and just decides to make himself a
• 33:55
  hero of it. Like it's kind of incredible he
• 33:58
  does it so like yeah that's what it is.
• 34:00
  Yeah back in Fraggle Rock everyone's still laughing a
• 34:03
  gobo. Yes there's a sequence that I
• 34:06
  liked a lot where red is convincing everyone like
• 34:08
  whatever. Do this the sneak attack and
• 34:10
  Wembley says Boomer made snacks because I did you didn't like an
• 34:16
  and monkeys like well maybe something light like a radish
• 34:18
  possess like that's a mattress. Engine words.
• 34:23
  I love that so much. We head into the gorgs garden.
• 34:27
  Yeah, we see jr. Is crying over like a crayon
• 34:30
  drawing of jr. Jr.
• 34:32
  So tragic. It's tragic.
• 34:33
  Obviously quarks don't have cameras because this is all the
• 34:36
  only memory he has of his face a little drawing.
• 34:39
  He did. That's right and Gobo little
• 34:42
  tiny little Gobo was there and he gets his attention.
• 34:45
  I love that scene. I actually love in this episode
• 34:47
  all the scenes with Junior and go because I feel like they're
• 34:49
  just so I mean Dan my love to playing off of each other.
• 34:51
  We're both very emotional actors at heart but also just I think
• 34:55
  just the sweetness, you get to see both of those characters,
• 34:59
  you know, in situations that they're both.
• 35:01
  I used to right Gobo stuck with the with a gorg and Junior are
• 35:04
  being so emotional and so heartfelt, you know, it's not,
• 35:07
  that's not a place we often have seen jr.
• 35:10
  So true. Yeah, we get a lot of emotions
• 35:12
  out of junior in this episode, which we'll get to in a moment.
• 35:15
  So, I love the moment where Gobo is introducing himself.
• 35:18
  He's like, I'm Gobo fraggle, I'm a Fraggle.
• 35:21
  Just part of my team. It was very, was it Tiny Toons?
• 35:26
  When they would say like oh yeah that's a buddy.
• 35:28
  A money, no relation. It's like everybody.
• 35:30
  That's a little fun at the last name.
• 35:31
  That's also our species. It's a little like Kermit the
• 35:33
  Frog. You know.
• 35:34
  You like it's becoming part of his last.
• 35:36
  It's not really his last name but it's exactly like his full
• 35:38
  name. Yeah.
• 35:38
  Right. And he's trying to pitch this
• 35:41
  idea to Junior and he's talking about we got to do this all
• 35:44
  together. And while he's talking junior,
• 35:46
  just grabs that cage plops it right down on top of them.
• 35:48
  It was a terrible idea. And now, both Gobo and Matt are
• 35:52
  trapped under cages. Yes!
• 35:53
  Thematically similar. Yes.
• 35:55
  It's like both ends of their worlds are both trapped.
• 35:58
  That's right. Meanwhile, Mochi is working with
• 36:01
  the Doozers and we got another great bit of dialogue where
• 36:05
  she's learned some doozer lingo. Yes, I love her on the, on the,
• 36:08
  on the doozer, to, with Wembley. It's so great.
• 36:10
  It's hysterical that she says, based a whole base to hold, do
• 36:14
  you copy and cotter? Pin says, hold a base.
• 36:15
  That's a copy copy. She says, copy copy on your
• 36:18
  copy, copy brilliant. So don't ya.
• 36:21
  Amazing. The Doozers.
• 36:22
  Get anything done because you get the feeling that they're
• 36:24
  just saying copies of all day long.
• 36:26
  Exactly. Yep.
• 36:28
  And here we go. This is also the greatest scene
• 36:29
  in the episode where red is ready to present this plan.
• 36:32
  I love the way it's shot. I love, I love everything about
• 36:35
  it. Mokey's dry takes about pogie.
• 36:37
  Like it's just so well done, everything about His Brilliant.
• 36:39
  But um before we get to that she throws it to boober like move
• 36:43
  show us. The plan is I don't have the
• 36:44
  most busy making snacks. That's his role in this episode
• 36:48
  poor boober, but yes, but but while she's going through this
• 36:50
  plan. Yeah, like The cameras like
• 36:52
  zooming and like, yeah, around. It's like, constant it made it
• 36:55
  feel like an Ocean's Eleven movie on.
• 36:57
  That was, that was the goal. And it's funny because the two
• 36:59
  directors of that atoms act, they were like, this is, so we
• 37:02
  didn't get guys, haven't done this before.
• 37:04
  Can we go this way? We're like, let's try it.
• 37:05
  Let's do it. You know, and you could everyone
• 37:07
  was kind of surprised when I first saw, but I think it it is
• 37:10
  so like high-stakes intense the way it was shot.
• 37:14
  Yes ridiculous situation with these God blessing, these idiots
• 37:17
  who are trying to put together this plan.
• 37:19
  I love it so much. And like, if we were to Actually
• 37:22
  see this plan, I'm sure we'll be like, well that cost a bit of
• 37:24
  money and this way it's like, nope, you just get some
• 37:26
  pictures. You have some interesting camera
• 37:28
  moments $20 later, we're done. And I love that justification of
• 37:32
  like Barry blueberry, his, you know, taking a break from
• 37:34
  announcing and now, he's like, putting his passion into art.
• 37:37
  That's also one of the best lines in this entire show.
• 37:41
  Can you believe it? Barry blueberry.
• 37:44
  Wow. So talented, Follow Your
• 37:46
  Passion, but yes, but this plan step one is to make a plan to
• 37:51
  get the water back. None dots right there.
• 37:53
  You look at them done Step 2, cotter pins, can use a projector
• 37:55
  to project design image of pogie and the gorgs garden and poke
• 37:58
  pops. Ins has a look like I'm there,
• 38:00
  but I'm not. I mean, that Kanye's delivery of
• 38:03
  that moment and then Donna's hilarious off-camera.
• 38:07
  Take as Mochi is just I laugh every single time I see that you
• 38:11
  really filled this cast with a lot of ringers.
• 38:13
  You really are amazing. Everyone on this in this Castle
• 38:16
  would they were Geniuses? So talented step 3, while the
• 38:20
  guards are distracted, the Doozers are going to sneak.
• 38:21
  Side of the fountain, demolish it with their machines and tools
• 38:24
  and doozer stuff. Again I know idea ridiculous we
• 38:28
  don't have to see it. Yeah.
• 38:30
  And with the gorgeous smart found destroyed, the water will
• 38:32
  return to the waterfall and then the final step, it's a dance
• 38:36
  party. It's very why not?
• 38:37
  Yeah, of course. And then everyone starts the
• 38:40
  dance party early. Yeah.
• 38:41
  Which I also love. I mean you just you feel it has
• 38:44
  a very like, great Muppet Caper energy when they're all sitting
• 38:47
  around. Like you know who's got the hot
• 38:50
  man? Or was it the hot mess?
• 38:51
  Sturdy. Hot mustard.
• 38:52
  Yeah. Where the yo-yo will have to my
• 38:54
  other pants. I mean, yeah, that thing where
• 38:55
  it's like these underdogs who have no shot at this really
• 38:58
  working who just believe that they've got a great no shot and
• 39:01
  also like no resources. Although the one resource, I was
• 39:04
  a little surprised by was the projector.
• 39:06
  We've never seen that in Fraggle Rock, but it's so funny.
• 39:08
  You say that because we did talk about that we were like we were
• 39:11
  like, that's kind of out of their world and then the idea
• 39:13
  was raised that like the Doozers are much more technically
• 39:16
  advanced technology wise than they have been in the past.
• 39:19
  And so we're like, okay, maybe the Doozers, the final spot.
• 39:21
  Even know what a projector is, but the Doozers have said that
• 39:24
  they have it in the like great. We're going to use it.
• 39:26
  That makes a lot of sense. Yeah, that was how we Justified
• 39:28
  it. What else picturing in my head
• 39:30
  was there? Fortunately can remember off the
• 39:32
  top of my head which Fraggle Rock at the soda was but there's
• 39:34
  one word cantus, goes into the gorgs garden and he stands
• 39:37
  behind the light. Yeah, his shadow, that's right.
• 39:40
  And you never really asked where that light came from because
• 39:43
  then how thoroughly show electricity the gorgs garden but
• 39:45
  you kind of go, right? Okay, right.
• 39:47
  But like a shadow, like we understand that.
• 39:49
  That's right. That's I think that's how we do.
• 39:51
  They would have done it. Yeah.
• 39:52
  Right like, without dragging all technology, whatever.
• 39:55
  Yeah, these are smart. They can figure out anything.
• 39:57
  Exactly. Back in the courts Garden,
• 40:00
  junior is telling Gobo that friends are dumb because he had
• 40:05
  to throw his friend down the well and Junior.
• 40:09
  Sorry in Pas gorg has told Junior that the plant is a
• 40:13
  distraction. Yeah.
• 40:14
  That the fraggles are only there to steal the radishes and like
• 40:18
  he's kind of buying into it a little bit and he's not happy.
• 40:21
  It like he's making them angry, if nothing else.
• 40:23
  But you had, he's been listening, obviously, which is
• 40:26
  why he captured Gobo, but Gobo recognizes Junior, Juniors
• 40:31
  description, and he's like, oh, hey, like if we can get that
• 40:33
  back for you. Yeah.
• 40:34
  So we can make a little deal here.
• 40:37
  Well, swap, you know, we got you your plant back and you'll do
• 40:41
  this for me. I'll do this for you and
• 40:42
  actually it comes from a very pure place.
• 40:44
  Like, you know, I think, of course Global wants to be out of
• 40:46
  the cage. But I also think like, he really
• 40:48
  genuinely is like, oh, that giant thing that fell into the
• 40:51
  Pain last episode like I know what that is.
• 40:53
  We can help you, right? I think he really wants to do
• 40:55
  the right thing. When he sees that, it's the
• 40:57
  first time he really gets to take in the fact that the gorgs
• 41:00
  have, you know, souls and hearts.
• 41:02
  And, and and, and compassion and the fact that, you know, he's
• 41:06
  watched, you know, he's away from his friends and for the
• 41:09
  first time Gobo realizes oh yeah, like that plant.
• 41:11
  Is this gorgs friend? Like, I'm gonna do what I can on
• 41:14
  my friends are going to do what we can to help this guy.
• 41:16
  So I think it also shows that even, you know, even in this
• 41:19
  moment of fear for go He's also able to look at this, the gorg
• 41:24
  jr. As a person for the first time
• 41:26
  and I love that moment. And I think I have to say been
• 41:28
  durocher in the costume of Junior gorg and Dan, of course,
• 41:32
  you know, performing The Voice in the face.
• 41:33
  I mean, they just worked so beautifully together to make
• 41:35
  that scene really touching. I thought it's true.
• 41:37
  Yeah, I completely agree and they owe them.
• 41:40
  They have this moment where they're trying to shake hands,
• 41:42
  yes. And I love, it's like this weird
• 41:44
  combination of like, sometimes it's Gobo and sometimes it's
• 41:48
  like the tiny Gobo. Yeah.
• 41:50
  And like Juniors Giant. Inger.
• 41:52
  Yeah, I assume you guys were just kind of trying to line
• 41:56
  things up. I don't even know how you film
• 41:58
  that. Oh, yeah, we did a few different
• 42:00
  versions. So, he did, you know, we did go
• 42:01
  on blue screen with this real puppet hand, you know, and then
• 42:04
  we did, like you said, like the mini Gobo which, which they
• 42:07
  rebuilt for the series, The Mini Gobo, and the many red.
• 42:10
  And many actually, all of them, I think.
• 42:12
  So, we could use them when we wanted to.
• 42:13
  We never really found a place to because we had those great CG
• 42:16
  model versions of them which of course are so successful.
• 42:19
  But for this one, we're like, we'll wait a minute.
• 42:21
  This is great because Gobo can be the back of gobos head and in
• 42:23
  the same shot with jr. You have to worry about blue,
• 42:25
  screening that. And then, for this moment, you
• 42:27
  could actually get contact and not have to fake it on
• 42:29
  blue-screen. Yeah.
• 42:30
  So there were moments, we try to use it but it was really cool to
• 42:32
  use that puppet because you know when you grow up with the
• 42:34
  original series you're like those things are so cool.
• 42:36
  I want to use. I'm sure.
• 42:37
  Yeah. And to see like that sequence of
• 42:39
  like the things we just mentioned and then immediately
• 42:40
  afterward he lists the the cage. Yeah, gg-go bounces out and it's
• 42:45
  just the whole thing is seamless.
• 42:47
  It's funny. I didn't think about that.
• 42:48
  At that scene is a great example of, of every Meek being put
• 42:52
  together where you have the real puppet, with blue screen with CG
• 42:55
  with of many fraggle, you have everything put together and once
• 42:57
  he had never thought about that before.
• 42:59
  Yeah. So Global returns Fraggle Rock
• 43:01
  and he tells everyone hey talk to jr.
• 43:03
  He's cool. We're going to we're going to go
• 43:05
  through with this and he says, haven't we all had times when we
• 43:08
  were in our best selves red says not me.
• 43:11
  Okay, I have absolutely have, I like that.
• 43:15
  And yeah, Cobo convinces them all.
• 43:17
  We're gonna make this new friend were going to build this new
• 43:19
  trust and everyone's going to be happy and We got our first song
• 43:22
  of the episode, it's follow me. Yes.
• 43:25
  Which was originally heard in the very first episode of the
• 43:27
  original series Beginnings. Sung by go bone traveling Matt,
• 43:30
  we heard it again in Uncle. Matt comes home and born to
• 43:33
  wander in homebody Matt in the trial of cotterpin doozer.
• 43:36
  Like it's it's after the theme song this is definitely the most
• 43:40
  repeated Fraggle Rock song yes and one of the past.
• 43:43
  I mean truly one of the best songs hands hands down.
• 43:46
  I adore this song and it was part of the Fraggle Rock song.
• 43:50
  Love Song Writers film. Balsam and Gentiles audition
• 43:52
  tape. Yes, it was if you ever heard
• 43:54
  those tapes, but I have, I have not heard that particular time.
• 43:57
  I mean, I've heard a lot of the early stuff but I haven't heard
• 43:58
  that demo, but I've heard I've heard that it was included in
• 44:00
  the in their audition. Yeah, yeah.
• 44:02
  And you could tell like, you can see like picture Geri Jewell or
• 44:05
  Jim Henson, listening to that song that these are the guy.
• 44:09
  Yeah, exactly. And this version of the song is
• 44:13
  sung by all the fraggles including like the extended
• 44:16
  fraggles, you know, I see Joe's Pepper Peppers in there and poke
• 44:19
  and like some of the other creatures and on Go creatures
• 44:22
  and they're all carrying jr. Jr.
• 44:24
  All the way back to the Garden scarf.
• 44:25
  Yes. And which is it was a really
• 44:27
  that was a surprisingly tough thing to shoot because we shot
• 44:31
  that I can proof. We talked about this in another
• 44:33
  episode but Tyler Heron are brilliant production designer
• 44:36
  built a ton of real tunnel basically underneath the Great
• 44:41
  Hall set. So literally if you're looking
• 44:43
  at the Great Hall set like inside of it is a tunnel that we
• 44:46
  use a lot. We use it in the Myrtle Moon
• 44:48
  migration episode a lot like so it's literally there.
• 44:51
  R. And so all those shots of us
• 44:53
  going down the tunnel, carrying the tree were shot in that
• 44:56
  space. But when we built it, we
• 44:59
  thought, Oh, They'll be, this would be great for like a
• 45:01
  two-character scene or something.
• 45:02
  That's what I get. Like 25 puppeteers.
• 45:04
  Essentially going down that tunnel plus camera Equipment.
• 45:07
  Plus lighting equipment was very challenging but God bless our
• 45:10
  team. They figured out how to do it
• 45:11
  but they did and it looks great. Yeah.
• 45:13
  It was really fun to shoot. It was it was also that was like
• 45:15
  the last couple weeks of the shoot and so that was that song
• 45:20
  with everybody doing it and see And as a group it was just a
• 45:22
  very like emotional shoot day for that.
• 45:25
  That's nice. That's really nice in the
• 45:28
  garden. They get the the good junior
• 45:31
  junior there and Junior immediately starts to bash them
• 45:33
  with the class because POG, or got in his head and we've never
• 45:37
  seen jr. This angry before.
• 45:38
  Now he is livid and we believe it or not, we did, we did a few
• 45:42
  different versions of that because we really weren't, sure,
• 45:45
  how far we could take it in context.
• 45:48
  And the version you saw was one of the angriest versions that we
• 45:51
  shot. And you know we realize that
• 45:52
  like you had to almost let junior get there to justify
• 45:58
  everything that happens after that.
• 45:59
  You know. If he was just kind of playfully
• 46:01
  scary then it didn't really drive the rest of the episode
• 46:04
  like you really needed to think that Gobo had put his friends,
• 46:07
  not only did he quote unquote get it wrong which of course he
• 46:09
  didn't but he everyone thinks he did but he put his friends in,
• 46:11
  moral mortal, danger and now they're trapped, it, just it
• 46:15
  needed to feel like the worst case scenario you know in every
• 46:19
  possible way it's true. Also, you know, we, it's
• 46:23
  important to see him have such a huge emotional response because
• 46:27
  like his whole story. Yeah.
• 46:29
  Throughout this whole season and probably ongoing is about this
• 46:32
  generational trauma that he's been picking up from Paw Gorga,
• 46:35
  totally pick that up, which is, which is a very important part
• 46:38
  of, you know, we if you watch the original series, you know,
• 46:42
  Paw Paw was really horrible to him like things that were okay
• 46:46
  in 1982 and 1983. Maybe not today.
• 46:49
  So like there was a lot of you like there's a whole song Called
• 46:51
  my son, you know, dumb dummy for her son, which actually I think
• 46:56
  they cut off of the second release of the one of the
• 46:59
  Fraggle Rock albums even in the 80s because it was parents were
• 47:01
  like maybe not that's oh wow. But there was a lot of that were
• 47:04
  paw was this really hard on Junior and said he was an idiot
• 47:07
  and dummies but so you know we even though we didn't do that in
• 47:11
  this version the show because it obviously wouldn't fly nowadays
• 47:14
  and also it's a horrible example at the same time, to your point.
• 47:18
  I'm glad you picked up on that. We wanted to show the fact that
• 47:20
  Papa has put this Come on Junior and constantly makes him feel
• 47:24
  like he's not good enough, you know?
• 47:26
  And that that has a reaction and and hurt people hurt people.
• 47:29
  So you know the fact that Juniors taking that anger out of
• 47:32
  the fraggles that comes from assembly from his dad.
• 47:35
  When and so I'm so glad you picked up on that cause that was
• 47:37
  a big thing that we tried to very subtly put in there.
• 47:39
  Yeah yeah back in Doc's Workshop.
• 47:43
  Matt has escaped from his cage and there's a great moment where
• 47:46
  he's holding very still because Doc is walking back from Chuck,
• 47:48
  does not see him at all. So ridiculously I love it.
• 47:52
  And I'm actually sorry something.
• 47:54
  Something we cut that used to be there is Doc used to pick him up
• 47:57
  and say, oh my gosh, you left another one of your toys on the
• 48:00
  floor and we almost shot it in at the last minute.
• 48:03
  I think we were like we really justify like it's pretty but
• 48:06
  like I loved the idea of him being held by Aaron, just like,
• 48:09
  you know, praying for dear life. But sure I mean there's also I
• 48:11
  mean the original series like there's that that possibility
• 48:14
  that maybe humans can't see fraggles.
• 48:16
  Yes. So we talked about that too.
• 48:18
  That like is it is it that he's actually like so?
• 48:21
  Still that she just doesn't notice it or to your point.
• 48:23
  Is it that Doc's? Not ready to see fraggles?
• 48:25
  Yeah. Which I actually think is what
• 48:26
  it is, personally. Yeah, I always loved that
• 48:28
  explanation, same because then she has to earn it.
• 48:31
  You don't get to the point where she gets to see the fraggles.
• 48:33
  Not, she happens to see the front.
• 48:34
  Yeah, it's not that like fairies don't exist in our world.
• 48:36
  It's just that we're just not ready to see them yet, that's
• 48:38
  right. Yeah.
• 48:39
  And circuit breaker blows a fuse and sprocket needs to decide
• 48:43
  whether to recapture mats or help doc get her camera back on.
• 48:46
  This is this is going to be the climax of their story.
• 48:49
  That kind of yes goes back and forth with what Going on with
• 48:51
  the fraggles that was such fun to shoot with sprocket.
• 48:54
  I love doing sprocket, but especially that scene was so fun
• 48:56
  to have him to so torn between. Like he's probably got this, you
• 49:00
  know he's like finally done what he's wanted to do which is
• 49:02
  proved too doc. Hello.
• 49:03
  This thing exists and she's so distracted by her project.
• 49:08
  So he's like do I do IB? Am I good dog.
• 49:10
  A good assistant or am I like doing the fraggle captured thing
• 49:12
  like you can't decide. Yeah in the gorgs garden gobos.
• 49:17
  Definitely blaming himself for this whole thing.
• 49:18
  Like he's also we were talking about jr.
• 49:20
  Being at his lowest go by was it?
• 49:21
  Lois Gobo has never been this down on himself before and
• 49:26
  they're hearing through the doozer tube that the Doozers
• 49:28
  plan didn't work of redirecting. The water like everything's just
• 49:31
  going to pot. Yeah.
• 49:33
  And you know he forgets what he said earlier about our lowest
• 49:36
  moments shouldn't Define us. He's feeling like this is the
• 49:39
  moment. Yeah.
• 49:40
  And everyone's gonna remember this forever.
• 49:41
  Yeah. But this is where we get our
• 49:44
  second song of the series. It's one heart, such a beautiful
• 49:48
  song. This is one of the best original
• 49:49
  songs of the series, I agree. It's a little poppy or gets to
• 49:53
  be a little puppy starts slow and apparently it was it written
• 49:56
  by Alex Cuthbertson and Matt fusfeld no.
• 49:59
  It was actually, it's music by Harvey Mason Junior and his team
• 50:02
  but lyrics by Dennis Lee. Oh, really?
• 50:04
  So we really wanted to find a way to include Philip awesome.
• 50:08
  Dennis Lee in the show, besides, you know, the Legacy songs
• 50:12
  Philip unfortunate wasn't available but Dennis, Dennis
• 50:14
  wrote it and it was such for me being the dork, I am.
• 50:17
  And I think Dennis Lee is such a genius when it comes to his
• 50:20
  wordplay and his, you know, if you You read his poetry book or
• 50:23
  me, talk about a brilliant, brilliant mind.
• 50:25
  Well, but to have him involved in to write these lyrics.
• 50:28
  I got on the phone with him, and I was like, so, maybe it's like,
• 50:31
  I was like, geeking out to the highest level of professional
• 50:34
  producer, but I wasn't, I know exactly what you're talking.
• 50:37
  Yeah. And he was great and he is the
• 50:39
  simplest most beautiful lyrics but they're so they resonate so
• 50:42
  much obviously. Yeah.
• 50:44
  Yeah, it shows because it feels like a fraggle song.
• 50:46
  Yeah, that's what it is. What it comes down to you.
• 50:48
  And of course it does because because it's him and this uh, is
• 50:51
  inspirational. It's not overly sweet as well.
• 50:54
  It says everything that this season has been building up to
• 50:57
  about togetherness and unity has been and all of us Gobo seems to
• 51:04
  Junior and it makes Junior Juniors flowers bloom.
• 51:08
  Yes. And juniors now inspired by this
• 51:11
  and he's buying into it with thank goodness.
• 51:13
  Yes. And there's some great shots of
• 51:15
  him. Just destroying that found.
• 51:18
  Yes, I love that. And we actually had to use
• 51:20
  because you know, That water is, I'd say, 95% real.
• 51:25
  We did a little bit of digital enhancement on it, but that
• 51:28
  really was a real water fountain that was built by the amazing
• 51:30
  art department and it functioned, and, of course,
• 51:33
  those animatronics should not be near water, so that we had to
• 51:37
  build a, there was a stunt face basically, for junior that then
• 51:40
  had to wear for that. So, we were all a little nervous
• 51:43
  about like, you know, of course we're like is he in this lip?
• 51:45
  Is it gonna fall but Ben was incredible and maybe I worked
• 51:47
  beautifully. Terrific, I mean, yeah, I love
• 51:49
  the shot where he just kind of does a baseball swing NG I said
• 51:52
  and then later on, like he smashes the head to Pieces which
• 51:55
  I assume is like, pre-broken so that I think it was.
• 51:57
  Yeah, I think was pre-scored, so break pretty easily.
• 51:59
  Yeah. That makes sense.
• 52:01
  And yeah, all that smashing causes a little quake and it
• 52:05
  blocks the water, then users were working on and redirects it
• 52:08
  to crackle Lagoon. We get to see the man Tavor
• 52:10
  again. Yes, and can't afford it.
• 52:14
  Manties like cheering. You know, the crack come back.
• 52:16
  Dude. I love it.
• 52:18
  And the waterfall rushes back into the fraggle pond.
• 52:21
  And all the Miracles of their they're celebrating and the
• 52:25
  doozer batteries or powering back like everything is just
• 52:28
  being fixed. Very it's a great.
• 52:29
  I love that sequence because it's just kind of like if you
• 52:31
  know hopefully everyone did watch the whole season you
• 52:33
  really get a taste of like do it all led up to this moment
• 52:36
  definitely yeah and then back in the workshop sprock is giving up
• 52:40
  on Matt's go help doc which is the right thing to do good job
• 52:43
  sprocket yes Matt's on its way out.
• 52:47
  Grabs docks, spare camera just like, oh, I found a shiny thing.
• 52:51
  I'm just To steal it. Of course, it's a gift of him
• 52:54
  and it turns out that munchie. The bacteria Works yes.
• 52:57
  In the plastic. Save the day.
• 52:58
  Yeah. Like you said, it's a real.
• 52:59
  It's a real thing. The real thing it really is you
• 53:01
  can look it up. It's a real thing.
• 53:02
  Yeah. And doc has effectively saved
• 53:03
  the planet. Yes, done.
• 53:05
  Now, when her out house by the beach somewhere.
• 53:09
  Yes, she's changed the world. But that's actually how it
• 53:11
  happened by the way. Sure.
• 53:12
  Yeah. Right.
• 53:13
  So it's real. Yeah.
• 53:14
  And I love that she ends up her little Story by saying.
• 53:17
  I wonder what we'll discover next.
• 53:18
  Yes you know it gives me hope for whatever likes.
• 53:21
  What? Story.
• 53:21
  We're going to follow with her in a potential season 2.
• 53:23
  Yeah, we're just the fact that like that's that's science and
• 53:26
  that's I mean not just science like any big accomplishment like
• 53:28
  I did it, what's next? Yeah.
• 53:31
  And the fact that what seems hopeless, you know, because
• 53:34
  she's she goes to that moment of hopelessness, you know, earlier
• 53:37
  what seems impossible is possible, you know?
• 53:40
  And if once you realize that, that it really does feel like
• 53:42
  the world is completely your oyster and anything is possible.
• 53:45
  Yeah, Junior lowers. The fraggle five down the well
• 53:49
  in a bucket which is also another great shot at Got it.
• 53:51
  And that was actually they built a bucket that we could all fit.
• 53:54
  And I mean, it was barely fit in that thing.
• 53:56
  But it was it was, it was fun that she felt amazing and
• 53:59
  everyone celebrating and there's confetti and fraggles are being
• 54:03
  thrown in the air, like Muppet Penguins.
• 54:04
  Yeah, but I love doing that. That was great.
• 54:06
  Terrific and Matt walks and thinks it's the celebration for
• 54:09
  his welcome home party. Of course, he does course, he
• 54:12
  does course, he does, The fraggles are showing traveling,
• 54:17
  Matt Museum, that they started under his name with all the
• 54:22
  artifacts that he sent back the season.
• 54:25
  But it also includes some things he didn't send back.
• 54:27
  There's a crackle cloak, a Merkel shell headbands a piece
• 54:31
  of the quarks Fountain, there's doozer blueprints.
• 54:34
  This is where we get, your architect characters back and he
• 54:37
  says, those are on loan. We're going to need that back.
• 54:41
  Were you channeling anyone in particular, with that line?
• 54:43
  I don't think I was I think I think it was more like I just
• 54:46
  love that he had this little hit one last little moment of being
• 54:50
  slightly in a row, 10 of about, like it like he's like, he's
• 54:53
  like, I'll let you fraggles going with this but maybe not
• 54:55
  everything. That's right?
• 54:56
  Yeah, those are ours. I also I didn't get a chance to
• 54:59
  pause and really squint. Like it's the blueprint that
• 55:02
  the, they're showing their, it's not like a real blueprint of
• 55:05
  something. It's, and I can't remember if it
• 55:07
  was, it's funny. You ask that?
• 55:08
  Because we know that on set were like, oh my God, they they
• 55:10
  shrunk down. Someone's going to be able to
• 55:13
  figure it out. I think it's either do the
• 55:15
  blueprint for doozer Dome the actual set construction or the
• 55:17
  Great Hall to one of the two. It's like something like that.
• 55:20
  Where I was like oh my God, I can't believe you actually did
• 55:22
  that. That's cool.
• 55:22
  Yeah, that's a nice touch. But yeah, but they're also
• 55:25
  things that celebrates and symbolize.
• 55:27
  What brought them all together when they needed each other
• 55:29
  most. Yeah, this is very nice and Matt
• 55:31
  has that moment he goes that was my vision alone.
• 55:37
  Again, just Matt thinking he knows.
• 55:39
  Everything is perfect. Perfect matte.
• 55:42
  He has one more thing to add to the collection.
• 55:44
  It's the camera, which he calls a looki cookie.
• 55:47
  Yes. Because you looking into it and
• 55:49
  you get a cookie that's makes that sense of.
• 55:52
  That sense? Was that another was that in the
• 55:54
  script? It was in the script is in this
• 55:56
  graph again, could have been anyone who's tried that in the,
• 55:59
  in the day. I don't even remember like, who
• 56:02
  like how we justify Batman. We're like he would believe it's
• 56:05
  a lucky cookie. Sure.
• 56:06
  Sure. And the fraggles don't look into
• 56:08
  the camera waiting for their cookie.
• 56:10
  I presume. Yes.
• 56:11
  And it's being Stream to Doc's Workshop.
• 56:14
  So if doc was only, this is it. If she just looked a little bit
• 56:17
  to the right, she was, he's too busy dancing with her dog.
• 56:19
  I mean, which would you rather do?
• 56:21
  I'd rather dance with sprocket. Would you rather watch them
• 56:23
  fraggles and realize green? Yeah, I don't know.
• 56:27
  I love sprocket. I think I want to dance with
• 56:29
  sprocket. I mean, come on, right?
• 56:31
  Yeah. She made the right choice.
• 56:32
  She made the right choice especially like man at that dog
• 56:35
  looked at you and put out his little palm on.
• 56:38
  What are you gonna say? No.
• 56:38
  I mean you and I was that he offers to dance first.
• 56:41
  That's right. So, Puts it out there.
• 56:43
  Yeah, I love that moment. I love that, you know, we wanted
• 56:46
  to end because we talked a lot about like, how can we end the
• 56:49
  season? And it was, you know, we wanted
• 56:52
  that sense of like, yes, doc has had this amazing success.
• 56:57
  But what's the one thing she didn't get to?
• 56:59
  Do, you know what's the thing? She's missing?
• 57:02
  She discovered one thing. What's the thing?
• 57:03
  She didn't Discovery, right. And we just wanted that last
• 57:06
  little, like the end of the season, so I'm so happy that
• 57:09
  that worked as well. And it's a well, don't don't
• 57:12
  worry. It's coming, you know?
• 57:13
  Yeah, I mean, might take five seasons to get there but like
• 57:17
  I'm confident that at some point.
• 57:19
  We will get to the point where the fraggles have had all these
• 57:22
  Adventures Dawkins bragging about these adventures and it's
• 57:24
  some point. They will start to cross over.
• 57:26
  Yeah. And I think it's funny.
• 57:28
  One of the things we talked a lot about is that you know, in
• 57:31
  the original series doc was an inventor and there were sciency
• 57:33
  things that he did. But really he was more like a
• 57:35
  tinkerer ultimately and in this version of the show Doc is a
• 57:40
  bona fide scientist and of course, you know, Deal with this
• 57:42
  all the time on our planet, where we're talking about what
• 57:45
  scientific and what spiritual or what scientific and what's
• 57:48
  fantasy, or what. So it's, I think that those two
• 57:51
  worlds, intersecting eventually. Hopefully, knock on wood is
• 57:55
  going to be even more interesting because she is such
• 57:57
  a logical person, you know? And she is such a science-based
• 58:00
  person that when she gets to, hopefully meet a fraggle who
• 58:04
  obviously are real creatures in our world, but our Fantastical
• 58:06
  many ways. Like, how is that going to
• 58:08
  affect her, right? Is she gonna, is it going to
• 58:10
  make her? Look at her science?
• 58:10
  A totally different way for all we know.
• 58:12
  Yeah. That there's a lot of
• 58:13
  possibilities there for that, for that future meeting future
• 58:16
  me. I hope, I hope I hope so too,
• 58:18
  your meeting. I really hope so, too for real.
• 58:21
  Well, that brings us to the end of this episode but we have more
• 58:23
  to talk about. Yes, we're gonna bring Halle
• 58:25
  back in here and we're going to wrap up this episode of you got
• 58:28
  it. And we're back with Halle
• 58:43
  Stanford welcoming back to the podcast.
• 58:45
  Hello. Hallie.
• 58:47
  Hello. So now that we're all back
• 58:50
  together, here I would love to know more about not.
• 58:54
  We've already talked about the last day of shooting, but what
• 58:57
  was, what was the goodbye like for everybody?
• 59:00
  Because I know it was obviously really emotional and I want to
• 59:03
  assume that there was some sort of wrap party where everyone got
• 59:06
  to kind of share those emotions together.
• 59:08
  Well, it was you how he will tell you much more about this
• 59:11
  because she planned most of that wrap party, but it was actually
• 59:14
  like a big debate of like, can we do a wrap party because of
• 59:18
  course, Yeah, covid Will raging it was before vaccines were
• 59:21
  readily available. It was still when you couldn't
• 59:24
  gather more than a certain amount of people together but we
• 59:27
  pulled it off a late. Tell the story.
• 59:28
  Well, we did. Pull it up.
• 59:30
  Yeah. There were a lot of
• 59:31
  restrictions. So we had a fancy lunch, super
• 59:35
  fancy lunch, which is really fun.
• 59:37
  So we have the lunch and then later in that day, our party.
• 59:43
  I mean, we all had to still do our onset masks up, six feet
• 59:47
  apart, Art. But we gave up tons of different
• 59:50
  gifts, which is really fun. So the Jim Henson company gave
• 59:53
  every single person, a bottle of champagne, The Producers pooled
• 59:58
  their money together. We all pulled everybody together
• 1:00:00
  and we got these little Wellness bags.
• 1:00:03
  P.s. I love those Wellness bags, so
• 1:00:05
  much that I actually went and reordered stuff from that
• 1:00:07
  company in Calgary, I was like this stuff is amazing.
• 1:00:11
  So everybody got a gift bag and there were.
• 1:00:14
  That's what I told you when the art Department put up all the
• 1:00:17
  Doozers. Drawings of all of us.
• 1:00:19
  And everybody got a poster and everybody signed each other's
• 1:00:22
  poster like it was yearbook and then people and then people got
• 1:00:27
  to see the show for the first time.
• 1:00:29
  Not the first time I got to see later, we would show a couple
• 1:00:33
  episodes to the cast and crew as they came and cut, but then we
• 1:00:37
  like ran stuff up on a big screen.
• 1:00:39
  So people got to watch it and Alex, cut person, and that
• 1:00:43
  Festival bless them just like work, so hard to put together a
• 1:00:48
  This clip reel, just the behind the scenes, bloopers and all of
• 1:00:52
  that. And so we all get to see that
• 1:00:54
  and laugh and then we made fun of Johnny and we show ya, Johnny
• 1:00:58
  in the Sprite they showed up at the opening of joining this
• 1:01:00
  party tonight, the humiliating that was a great show, what
• 1:01:06
  simulating about that. It was a great.
• 1:01:08
  I'm very proud of James, right? How dare you?
• 1:01:13
  I was like there's so much bronzer on my face in this
• 1:01:15
  episode. You came from No, he's adorable.
• 1:01:19
  Everybody loved it. It was unexpected.
• 1:01:23
  Yes, it's true. And just feeling like it was.
• 1:01:33
  But like I said, we tried our best to make it feel like a
• 1:01:35
  celebration, even though we don't actually a lot of
• 1:01:38
  restrictions on us and I have to say, did what he was saying
• 1:01:41
  about the cast and the crew watching.
• 1:01:43
  We show them a rough cut of the pilot episode, which is so very,
• 1:01:47
  very rough. I mean, it was like, it was
• 1:01:48
  missing effects. It was missing music everything,
• 1:01:51
  but watching their reaction to that was probably one of my
• 1:01:55
  favorite memories of the entire shoot because, you know, for
• 1:01:58
  some I mean, everybody in that room at least was touched by
• 1:02:01
  Fraggle Rock growing up and it was amazing to watch these.
• 1:02:05
  Like, hardened crew, guys, and gals tears streaming down their
• 1:02:10
  faces because they were like, oh my God, were part of this like
• 1:02:13
  week and Kanye who plays pogie just came to me after the
• 1:02:17
  screening and he literally couldn't speak.
• 1:02:18
  Remember the Holly, like he could not speak, he was crying
• 1:02:20
  so hard because he was just like overwhelmed by being part of it.
• 1:02:25
  And I think it's a kind of thing where it's like we were so in
• 1:02:27
  the trenches, I'm working so hard and it was so many you know
• 1:02:30
  long hours and long weeks and until you sit back and you see
• 1:02:35
  it you're like oh my God, that's what we're making, you know and
• 1:02:38
  you should put together and you see the characters and you see
• 1:02:40
  that the the reactions to things and and also I think how funny
• 1:02:44
  it was people are so happy, how funny it was.
• 1:02:46
  So that was a really special memory.
• 1:02:49
  I love that and I'm sure it's also, it's so moving to see.
• 1:02:53
  You don't really know what you're making in the moments.
• 1:02:57
  And like, I'm like, I say, I'm sure they saw Clips is things
• 1:02:59
  were coming in, but you people to see everything edited
• 1:03:01
  together, you know, almost complete and to know, like, oh,
• 1:03:05
  wasn't just me wiggling the stall.
• 1:03:06
  Like actually it's part of this like beautiful magical looking
• 1:03:10
  thing. Yeah, and it's good and it's
• 1:03:13
  good. Yeah, it was a big like, okay,
• 1:03:15
  okay. We made something beautiful and
• 1:03:17
  good because, you know, No, we can all think it's good
• 1:03:19
  individually, but when you see it as a group and everybody acts
• 1:03:21
  like that, you're like, okay. I think this might work.
• 1:03:24
  Yeah, absolutely. You know, I just pulled up, we
• 1:03:27
  got somebody cards and letters, I just pulled up this card from
• 1:03:30
  Ali. Eisner, who worked on the show,
• 1:03:33
  who I absolutely adore and they, I'm just going to read it to
• 1:03:38
  they wrote, I've never worked in an environment.
• 1:03:40
  As healthy as Fraggle Rock, it was consistently supportive,
• 1:03:43
  kind of warm welcoming and so continuously thoughtful.
• 1:03:47
  It's been a place where people lived Other up to succeed.
• 1:03:49
  Every day, I woke up excited to come to work to see everyone.
• 1:03:52
  This has been a very healing work experience for me as a
• 1:03:55
  trans person. I'm sometimes Typecast for folks
• 1:03:57
  don't really know what to say. None of this happened to me
• 1:04:00
  here. It's just amazing like that
• 1:04:03
  those were the kind of letters we received on the last day,
• 1:04:06
  right? Like people just wrote like I
• 1:04:07
  got and I got those from the art Department, the props Department
• 1:04:10
  from, you know, from all kinds of people.
• 1:04:12
  So anyway, I always remember that one though, because I know
• 1:04:15
  that was a lot for a leader, right?
• 1:04:17
  That, that car Are we should all be so lucky to get to work on a
• 1:04:21
  show like this. Honestly and now you're here,
• 1:04:23
  you're a part of it. I'm a very small part of it.
• 1:04:26
  After it's all finished, I think it's a popping.
• 1:04:33
  Oh well, thank you, thank you for making us entire shelf for
• 1:04:35
  me, I appreciate that. You're welcome my pleasure.
• 1:04:39
  So Hallie your role on this podcast.
• 1:04:43
  Was kind of, you know, with these dig deeper segments has
• 1:04:46
  been to kind of help. To summarize.
• 1:04:50
  What is it that we learned from this episode?
• 1:04:53
  And I'd love to talk a little bit about what you all learned
• 1:04:57
  from this entire season of Fraggle Rock, like what are the
• 1:05:01
  big Tech takeaways thematically or what you want people to take
• 1:05:06
  home with them at the end of the day?
• 1:05:09
  Thank you. And I talked about this which
• 1:05:11
  was hope Punk making hope cool. Again making corny cool.
• 1:05:18
  Putting that positive joyful fraggle Vibe out into the
• 1:05:21
  Universe. I think we've all been talking
• 1:05:23
  about it when you write stories and put them out there that are
• 1:05:27
  about this message, it can't help but affect the people
• 1:05:30
  making the message and if and if you're if you're not affected by
• 1:05:34
  the messaging, then your broken glass inside.
• 1:05:36
  No, I'm kidding that. Like, like so, I think what I
• 1:05:40
  learned is it actually can work to like actually put out.
• 1:05:44
  This really joyful Vibe collaborative Vibe and you can
• 1:05:48
  get a piece of Excellence. It doesn't have to be so hard.
• 1:05:52
  But I also just love the messaging of the show of
• 1:05:57
  different people of different sizes.
• 1:05:59
  Junior and Gobo standing up for what they believe in and being
• 1:06:02
  very brave in a very scary moment, to make the world right
• 1:06:08
  for everyone. I mean, that to me, it was such
• 1:06:11
  an important message in that last episode.
• 1:06:13
  And I think a lot of people displayed, a lot of Bravery on
• 1:06:16
  this show in many ways, Apple included, Apple included, you
• 1:06:22
  know, letting us go back to the Rock and take a big swing.
• 1:06:25
  So, this is are some of the bigger higher lessons that I
• 1:06:28
  learned? I love the.
• 1:06:29
  I agree with all that. I think also, you know, from a
• 1:06:33
  puppet place, you know, there a lot of puppet doubters out there
• 1:06:38
  and and it's, there's we We joke around, but it's true.
• 1:06:40
  There's, there's a there's people who just like, you know,
• 1:06:43
  they're scared of Puppets because you know, they don't
• 1:06:46
  think that it's as viable as animation is nowadays.
• 1:06:50
  And what I was so excited about was we were encouraged to take
• 1:06:54
  the puppetry to the next level and I think what we learned on
• 1:06:57
  the show was puppets work. Just fine.
• 1:07:00
  It's it's, you know, Frank Oz is this famous statement, why
• 1:07:02
  puppets, right? You ask yourself before you do a
• 1:07:05
  show with puppets, why puppets? And I think what Fraggle Rock
• 1:07:07
  does, obviously their Fantastical creatures.
• 1:07:09
  That's number one reason, why? But also like, we can put them
• 1:07:12
  in amazing situations that are exciting to watch.
• 1:07:15
  So we can do stunts with puppets.
• 1:07:16
  We can put puppets and water. We can do crazy effects of
• 1:07:19
  puppets. And so getting a chance to do
• 1:07:21
  that and say this is the level of puppetry can be used for on
• 1:07:25
  television. I thought was really exciting
• 1:07:27
  and I learned that that is not some sort of outdated concept,
• 1:07:31
  you know? So that's one thing I think also
• 1:07:35
  what Holly? And I talked about all the time
• 1:07:37
  was the fact that really good entertainment is a Less meaning
• 1:07:40
  that there's no specific age. This has to be viewed by this
• 1:07:44
  age to get it, you know, for aggregate the original Fraggle.
• 1:07:46
  Rock was definitely made for this purpose but this so it's
• 1:07:48
  back to the Rock. It's a show that anybody can
• 1:07:51
  watch and find something from so you know, a three-year-old can
• 1:07:54
  watch it and love it for one reason and an eight-year-old can
• 1:07:56
  watch it. And love another reason that you
• 1:07:58
  know, 20 year old can watch it and love it for another reason
• 1:08:01
  and then 80 year old can watch it.
• 1:08:02
  And we, by the way, heard from all those age groups and I'm
• 1:08:05
  sure you have to like, a people who love it for those different
• 1:08:07
  reasons. And when you put really great
• 1:08:09
  Music and really good performances and really great
• 1:08:11
  writing, especially in really great art and, you know,
• 1:08:15
  Joseline Stevenson, who is, of course, one of the original
• 1:08:17
  creators and writers on the series, and we're so lucky to
• 1:08:19
  have her as a writer on Frog. Rock back to the Rock would say
• 1:08:22
  all the time that the methodology on set of the
• 1:08:25
  original was were all here in service of the greater idea.
• 1:08:28
  And that's exactly. I think what we try to do on
• 1:08:30
  back to the rock as well. It's like we all were working to
• 1:08:33
  bring the world to life and bring the story to life.
• 1:08:37
  And I think when you all do that, it makes Great
• 1:08:40
  entertainment. That is accessible to everybody.
• 1:08:43
  So I think that's I think that's what I took away.
• 1:08:44
  Was like, you could still do that.
• 1:08:46
  Yeah and obviously you can because you did it.
• 1:08:48
  I mean that's like it's the proof is in the pudding.
• 1:08:51
  Yeah. Which traveling Matt invented.
• 1:08:52
  By the way, he he invented putting who knew well, I think
• 1:08:58
  that's a wonderful place to wrap up this episode, as well as this
• 1:09:02
  season. So, John tartaglia, heli
• 1:09:05
  Stanford. I want to thank you both so much
• 1:09:06
  for being here and for being on this entire season.
• 1:09:09
  Season. Your contributions were so
• 1:09:13
  incredibly important to this podcast project and I'm just
• 1:09:16
  very happy to have both of your voices on the show.
• 1:09:18
  Thanks to all the fans of tough pigs because you guys are, you
• 1:09:21
  know, yes, you keep you keep the love for Henson alive and we
• 1:09:25
  couldn't do without you guys too.
• 1:09:26
  So, thank you. Yes.
• 1:09:28
  Big giant group hug. Like big tough pigs group hug,
• 1:09:33
  mmm. Thank you.
• 1:09:34
  It's a warm and that brings us to the end of another.
• 1:09:39
  Fraggle, talk podcasts and the end of this entire season.
• 1:09:43
  I want to thank everybody on the Jim Henson company team as well
• 1:09:45
  as the toughest team for helping to make this series happen and a
• 1:09:48
  huge. Thank you to all of the seasons.
• 1:09:51
  Very, very special guests. So until we meet again we'll see
• 1:09:55
  you down at fraggle. Talk fraggle.
• 1:10:07
  Talk. The Unofficial Fraggle Rock
• 1:10:08
  podcast is brought To you by tough pics.com produced written
• 1:10:12
  and hosted by Johannes fraggle fast facts, segment presented by
• 1:10:15
  special guest. John tartaglia dig deeper
• 1:10:18
  segment hosted by Beth cook with special.
• 1:10:20
  Guest Hayley Stanford fraggle, talk art by Dave whole team
• 1:10:23
  Junior the Fraggle Rock Mark and Logo characters and elements are
• 1:10:25
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