Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to his best buds Simon Hart & Frazer Gregory about Genesis of the Daleks (1/6)

Transcript

Talks to his best buds Simon Hart & Frazer Gregory about Genesis of the Daleks (1/6) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:33
  I'm so drunk. I stood from the Tardis onto a
• 0:42
  bleak Planet, all around the grand was ravaged.
• 0:47
  No. Visitation Banks of chilling,
• 0:50
  folks, whirling through the air. Why had I been brought here?
• 0:56
  Was it to do another episode of a hamster with a blunt penknife
• 1:01
  is that it But what about Fraser River?
• 1:05
  Joe doctor. Oh, there you are.
• 1:13
  Joe, say, this isn't the beacon, know, there's been a slight
• 1:18
  change of plan. This is a hamster.
• 1:21
  We can't grow the whole like an audio book on this.
• 1:24
  Well, I could, but I won't what? Hello old girl.
• 1:30
  There he is. It's very strange because faces
• 1:32
  dressed up like Tom Baker. Look at absolutely stunning pink
• 1:36
  fairies our impression. You never know what to expect.
• 1:41
  So hello, everyone. Welcome back to a hamster with a
• 1:43
  blunt penknife the Doctor Who commentary not commentaries
• 1:46
  podcast. People Lambert, as you may have
• 1:51
  guessed from the intro. Tonight, we're talking about one
• 1:54
  of the most evil and corrupt races.
• 1:58
  No. From story that we're going back
• 2:03
  in time to avert the creation of the Daleks my God, you lost.
• 2:10
  Do it side. You must complete your mission
• 2:13
  for the time Lords. So the guys, yes.
• 2:17
  Do we have the right more? Who else could do it?
• 2:21
  Well, so to start us off, I've got a question for you both.
• 2:29
  And this is something I was pondering on the way on my drive
• 2:31
  home tonight. I'm just looking.
• 2:34
  Why is it always Genesis of the Daleks?
• 2:37
  Why is Genesis of the Daleks the best-selling novelization?
• 2:41
  Why is did it get a cassette and record release?
• 2:46
  Why is it the most repeated story on the BBC of Doctor.
• 2:50
  Who why what is it about this story?
• 2:55
  Why is it always this one that everyone comes back to?
• 2:59
  Fucking brilliant. That's why it's exceptionally
• 3:02
  good television. I think is one of the few Doctor
• 3:06
  Who stories that you could kind of, rip out of Doctor Who and
• 3:09
  hold up as a genuinely fantastic.
• 3:11
  Piece of Television. It's six episodes long.
• 3:14
  It doesn't like our state's, welcome fantastic characters.
• 3:18
  A brilliant villain. A great script.
• 3:20
  A moral dilemma outstanding production values a terrific
• 3:24
  scorer. Shall I go on?
• 3:27
  Yes. What do you think?
• 3:30
  Frazier and I'll just put it a bit more, simply.
• 3:33
  It's the best episode of Doctor Who that's ever been made.
• 3:37
  This is your all-time favorite? No, no it's not my favorite.
• 3:41
  It's not my favorite but he's the best.
• 3:44
  My favorite is the happiness Patrol but I can't, you know,
• 3:46
  sit and see the happiness. Patrol is, you know, the best of
• 3:50
  the best, you know. It's certainly the one that
• 3:53
  speaks to me and makes me the happiest.
• 3:56
  Ha ha. You know, when it is my favorite
• 3:59
  one that I really enjoyed watching.
• 4:01
  But if I look and I say, which is the best, you know, which is
• 4:05
  got all those elements, you've mentioned the best script, the
• 4:07
  best score, the best performance is the best characters.
• 4:09
  The best rating, the best of everything that all comes
• 4:12
  together in one big glorious, sick sport package, its Genesis
• 4:17
  of the Daleks. Well, thank you very much and
• 4:20
  that's the end of this episode of crazy stuff you both and
• 4:24
  we've discussed all the merits of this story.
• 4:26
  Goodbye. Bye.
• 4:28
  Frasier, I was really scared. You were gonna say the
• 4:30
  dominators? What's your favourite Doctor?
• 4:32
  Who story? Then I was, well, your favorite
• 4:35
  doesn't have to be the best well thing, you know, that's it just
• 4:39
  so happens that my favorite is the best but there we go.
• 4:43
  What's your favorite city of death?
• 4:46
  Well, you should listen to what Gary Russell's got.
• 4:47
  Say about that in the hole. Gary Russell has always been
• 4:50
  contrary about that one. He goes on for five minutes
• 4:54
  about why he hates it. He does, You need to cover your
• 4:58
  ears for that but I'm glad he gets this bit about preacher
• 5:00
  from the pit right eventually. But guys, I got something.
• 5:04
  I got something absolutely staggering to tell both of you.
• 5:07
  Okay, before we go into this, because it may affect people's
• 5:11
  enjoyment of this commentary. This is a story where we're all
• 5:15
  three of us in complete agreement on how good it is.
• 5:20
  What we can argue about, Oh, They'll be something Booker
• 5:26
  phrases here, they'll be something.
• 5:29
  That's, alright. You'll be able to argue with me
• 5:31
  about what I think is the second best piece of Dudley Simpson
• 5:35
  music in the whole of Doctor Who and you've been guessing before
• 5:39
  we started recording and none of you will get and you won't guess
• 5:42
  which B is. Don't think I could imagine
• 5:46
  didn't did it didn't know know it.
• 5:49
  In this story. I like him.
• 5:56
  Dumb. Dumb, dumb, dumb dumb.
• 6:12
  We basically in agreement that this is all.
• 6:15
  I love it. Absolutely love it is He loved
• 6:18
  it since I bought the cassette on my 6th birthday.
• 6:23
  Oh awful tired of you coming very last thing I'd like to say
• 6:28
  before we go in is that one of the very first messages about
• 6:33
  back and forth between me and Fraser was me, slow phrases
• 6:38
  suggesting that we do genesis of the Daleks me don't cha know ya
• 6:42
  amazing, that's do it and then Frozen basically wimping out and
• 6:46
  going yeah I'll do it I can't do it justice.
• 6:49
  Well let me tell you something, mr.
• 6:51
  Gregory you've come on A long bloody way in a year and, you
• 6:55
  know, me amazing on this stuff. But I would still stand by that.
• 6:58
  I think if it wasn't me and you inside together, then I would
• 7:02
  very much feel. I can't do this Justice because
• 7:05
  this is a, this is that good a story that's awesome.
• 7:09
  Is that? I just too good to discuss
• 7:13
  without help. Yeah, well, I just think that's
• 7:16
  why this is a story that's been talked about so much, like, kind
• 7:19
  of what is their new to say about it?
• 7:22
  Well, only one way to find out settle hint.
• 7:28
  Yeah, let's go. Yeah.
• 7:32
  Well, he's going to well, should I come to say men or less Trish?
• 7:35
  We do it together, okay? And we can we do this all
• 7:39
  together. Her first start, the five, four,
• 7:41
  three. Okay.
• 7:42
  In five, four, three, two, one, five, five, four, three, two,
• 7:50
  one. You're watching this on bread
• 8:00
  box. What are you watching on?
• 8:02
  Say Doctor Who The Collection season 12 disc for I'm watching
• 8:10
  as well. I've got a Blu-ray player
• 8:12
  upstairs, it's so sad because it's so crisp.
• 8:15
  Never mind, never mind. It does.
• 8:18
  That does look very good on the blue where it really does.
• 8:21
  And it seems like that's all their film work.
• 8:24
  Looks just exceptionally good on Blu-ray.
• 8:28
  So the first thing to mention, obviously, as you know, you read
• 8:31
  out from the target novelization, there of the
• 8:34
  doctor stepping out of the TARDIS.
• 8:35
  Well, I didn't I read out from the, the audio version, right?
• 8:42
  And obviously, he doesn't step up from the Tardis.
• 8:45
  He-he's. Transmat beams interrupted by
• 8:50
  the time Lords? Yes.
• 8:52
  Yes, you almost feel like you know, they figured we're still
• 8:55
  in the Jon Pertwee era when he was going off on missions to the
• 8:57
  Notes. Yeah, well, there's still a bit
• 9:00
  of that going on, isn't it? I mean, I think with the, with
• 9:03
  the album version, they could take liberties with what was
• 9:06
  going on, and if you want to feature the Tardis at the start,
• 9:10
  then that's fine. There's no reason why not
• 9:14
  Commander. It's not as if, you know, people
• 9:16
  are going to remember. Well, someone is, I'm going to
• 9:18
  go well, actually, yes. Can I just say that opening?
• 9:27
  One of the most shocking one of the most adult brutal, isn't it?
• 9:31
  Any Doctor Who story, like, there's a massacre in the first
• 9:34
  sort of one minute, and with the gas mask, nothing like that and
• 9:37
  the fog, it's really nightmarish.
• 9:40
  I don't know if that's entirely suitable for young kids.
• 9:43
  You know it's the slow motion as well, doesn't it?
• 9:46
  You know. It's not just them getting
• 9:47
  gunned down, its them getting gunned down and slow motion and
• 9:50
  it really sets the stall out for what we are going to be getting
• 9:54
  in the next six weeks. You know, this is going to this
• 9:56
  is grown-up This is, you know, it's a mile away from something
• 10:01
  like Planet. The spiders, you know, was yeah,
• 10:04
  this is this is David Maloney back in the war games mode, just
• 10:09
  turn it. Like this is very like part 1 of
• 10:11
  the war games, which is very do me and and brutal but not quite
• 10:16
  as violent as this. There's a piece of Direction in
• 10:19
  a second that he steals from his own Direction, in the water
• 10:23
  creeping barrage, when the bombs are going off and in the war
• 10:26
  games is a close-up on Zoe. With our hands over our ears.
• 10:28
  And this time it's Sarah and it's equally as effective.
• 10:32
  Both time, wasn't this supposed to be setting?
• 10:35
  Some beautiful perfumed garden this thing that's right?
• 10:38
  Yes, yes. And then I was a diva Maloney
• 10:42
  said no that doesn't work with needs to be fog and Freak.
• 10:48
  Yeah, I think that that was definitely the right decision.
• 10:51
  Definitely Yeah, we've got John Franklin Robins here who is one
• 10:56
  of two stars For You. Joe in this episode who have
• 10:59
  made appearances in Star Trek. You're joking.
• 11:04
  I'm not. This is one frontal Starship
• 11:06
  project once you've been in it so he was in that one in series
• 11:11
  7 of Star Trek the Next Generation where Wesley comes
• 11:14
  back? I'll Journey's End.
• 11:17
  Yeah, he's one of the villagers. Oh, and that one.
• 11:25
  The second actor in this. Is it gonna shine?
• 11:27
  It's guy signer. Yeah, website was here he was in
• 11:30
  an episode of Enterprise but I could only tell you it's an
• 11:33
  episode of Enterprise. I don't know anything about
• 11:34
  Enterprise held that against him.
• 11:36
  I think he was an old saying that, you know, Now, here is a
• 11:42
  continuity Gap that no one ever picks up.
• 11:45
  That was Sarah, Jane saying, this isn't the beacon, but they
• 11:49
  haven't been to nerve a beacon yet.
• 11:51
  They've been to the ark and this is someone in the production
• 11:56
  team. Not paying attention.
• 11:58
  All right? And they filmed the Cybermen
• 12:01
  before this, but they haven't actually been to nerva Beacon
• 12:06
  yet. So there you go, there's
• 12:09
  something. In true, Google podcasting
• 12:14
  style, I'm going to leave you guys to it for two minutes with
• 12:16
  my dog needs to go out, okay? I think you know what I noticed
• 12:20
  immediately, and I know Hinchcliffe said to David
• 12:24
  Maloney. I don't know if he watched
• 12:27
  planet of the Daleks because that was Maloney's.
• 12:29
  Previous story to this was, yes. But he basically said, I want
• 12:33
  this puncher, I want this space here and there is a massive
• 12:38
  difference to his direction of planet Earth.
• 12:40
  Alex and this yeah because this is the first time he's back
• 12:43
  since planet of the Daleks. So do people only hasn't been
• 12:46
  back on the show since since then.
• 12:48
  So there are this is it feels like such a step up from what he
• 12:53
  was doing there. And I don't know whether it's
• 12:56
  because he's out on location and he always does really good stuff
• 13:00
  in bench with Quarry, which is his favorite Quarry for Blake's
• 13:03
  7 where they are now. How many time to think?
• 13:08
  Yep, lots of time. So, But he really, he's
• 13:15
  exceptionally good in this story.
• 13:17
  David Maloney, he keeps it all together.
• 13:19
  They do that. That very wise choice, that they
• 13:22
  a lot of the location work is in the first episode.
• 13:25
  So yes, it's a kind of has an immediacy about it and it sucks
• 13:29
  you straighten. And actually this is a really
• 13:31
  interesting one because the scale of the story gets smaller
• 13:36
  and more claustrophobic the more the story goes along those.
• 13:39
  Yeah, which is unusual. Because Doctor Who usually start
• 13:42
  small and claustrophobic and then it's bigger and backed out.
• 13:45
  But this, yeah, they don't go back outside in episode 6.
• 13:49
  I think we're just down in the bunker out where.
• 13:51
  Yeah, or I just outside as well with yeah, the rebels?
• 13:55
  Yeah, it's all Studio. This whole sequence side with
• 13:58
  the landmine it's it's it's padding.
• 14:03
  Is it? It really technically?
• 14:05
  But it's so full of Jeopardy. And because the free regulars
• 14:09
  are playing it, Absolutely real. And I think I would have been
• 14:17
  really careful. Its superb.
• 14:20
  Is this adhering to all like the Terry Nation part 1.
• 14:23
  Cliches, we've got the doctor and companions kind of exploring
• 14:27
  a desolate landscape. Yep.
• 14:29
  They're separated from the Tardis.
• 14:31
  We're back without any. Any of the Dalek is revealed at
• 14:37
  the end of the episode. Yep.
• 14:41
  The split up. Shortly.
• 14:44
  Yeah, and we'll go Wise. It's are on our own, isn't it?
• 14:47
  I'm and this is a like like the start of the Dead Planet.
• 14:51
  They're exploring the planet. Yeah, it's just the main cast.
• 14:56
  But it just feels like, it's got more muscle.
• 14:58
  Does it then? Yeah, the average Terry Nation.
• 15:03
  If you recall planet of the Daleks the features, Joe just
• 15:06
  wandering around the forest for yes. 25 minutes and I love it.
• 15:09
  Don't get me wrong. But folks, this is a good
• 15:13
  Forest. Yeah, but this is just as just
• 15:15
  got some serious just look at Tom Baker there, he's acting his
• 15:19
  socks off without doing very much but he is He's trying to
• 15:25
  show the doctor is stoic but he's scared and we don't see his
• 15:29
  doctors scared like this very often.
• 15:32
  I think this is, this is Tommy's best because he's really trying
• 15:35
  and this series isn't because obviously he's relatively
• 15:39
  unknown coming into this rule. You know, one of the biggest
• 15:42
  rules the Risen TV at the time and he's really putting the
• 15:46
  effort in, you know, the copper series time we'll see him, you
• 15:49
  know, getting that sort of you go going and while I am the
• 15:52
  doctor. Now when And, you know, it takes
• 15:55
  as you guys mentioned, you know, many times in the past.
• 15:58
  It takes like season 18, where, you know, someone actually comes
• 16:02
  and pushes them again, to get them back to this level of the
• 16:06
  sort of intensity what's brilliant is.
• 16:09
  And I remember Steven Moffat pointing this out in a in a big
• 16:13
  old school in Doctor Who magazine about season 12 is what
• 16:17
  brilliant is. Tom doesn't know he's a success.
• 16:20
  Yeah so he's not got that and so he's doing Everything he can and
• 16:25
  he's showing everything he can do in this season.
• 16:28
  What do you know? I'm gonna make a contrary
• 16:30
  statement now and one of you will come at me for this.
• 16:33
  I I think there's three stories in season 12, where I can see
• 16:37
  Tom Baker's nerves and I don't think he's entirely found
• 16:40
  himself. That's robot sontaran,
• 16:42
  experiment and revenge of the Cybermen.
• 16:44
  I think all three of those stories.
• 16:45
  He's kind of finding his fee, the scripts for our can space.
• 16:48
  And Genesis, his eyes are so strong and strong for his
• 16:52
  doctor, like it would Take it a pretty poor access to have got
• 16:55
  those wrong and he is brilliant in this.
• 16:57
  Don't get me wrong and I think this is did this come before, or
• 17:01
  after Revenge, this is, this is after Revenge.
• 17:04
  So they were slightly out of order because they were using
• 17:06
  the Minerva sets back to back. So I think this is probably
• 17:10
  where he absolutely solidifies. We were taught about the macro
• 17:14
  Tara. The other day what we saw?
• 17:15
  We were yes, you stories for. I think Tom Baker's in that same
• 17:19
  sort of Story. Number four, Yeah, maybe you
• 17:23
  miss it, you need to you know sort of play around a little
• 17:26
  bit. Well actually no Story.
• 17:27
  Number five isn't it on both counts?
• 17:30
  Oh yeah. Yeah.
• 17:32
  I mean you know in robot particularly he's he's playing
• 17:36
  it in exactly the opposite way to Jon Pertwee in every scene.
• 17:41
  So it's always that feels like well, we're in a comfortable
• 17:45
  situation. This is what we know, what Jon
• 17:47
  Pertwee would do. So we're going to invert this
• 17:49
  and Tom Baker, will do something brilliant like sitting.
• 17:52
  In the Jeep, with his legs, over the over the roof and things
• 17:57
  like that, things that John Pope we would never have done.
• 18:00
  But by here he's, he's his doctor.
• 18:05
  Yeah. Going to say something then.
• 18:08
  Yeah, I think he's great and fun time, an experiment.
• 18:10
  I particularly like them in those action scenes where we
• 18:13
  Zone shot from like along, angle, long distance is my last
• 18:16
  Terry, Walsh, you know. But he is, don't get me wrong,
• 18:24
  he's incredible in this and it's probably one of the best ever.
• 18:30
  Dr. Performances we're going to see like in the entirety of the
• 18:33
  classic series. Yes, but what another really
• 18:38
  adult moment there of them. Stumbling into the trench in the
• 18:43
  door opening and thoughts being gunned down with gas masks on
• 18:46
  again. And when I've answered your
• 18:48
  question did, which Audis it's your the question last thing is
• 18:53
  this too good for Doctor Who? Oh yeah, go on.
• 18:57
  Go on then. Well, you asked for it.
• 19:01
  I dodged it the first time, so you answered.
• 19:04
  I think there are moments in the classic series run that I would
• 19:11
  be reluctant to put a four or five year old child in front of
• 19:15
  now case of androzani, some parts of this Deadly Assassin.
• 19:20
  Maybe there are a few moments where they cross the line now
• 19:23
  they are offering is great Telly, but is it to adult?
• 19:27
  Yeah. Jess.
• 19:29
  So I was 17 when I first saw this so they repeated this in
• 19:34
  the summer of 1982 as part of the Doctor Who in the Monsters
• 19:38
  season. So they cut it into 2 50 minute
• 19:41
  episodes which travesty it was an appalling set of cut.
• 19:46
  It was not not, well done but I loved it.
• 19:50
  I absolutely loved it. And what you weren't frightened
• 19:54
  watching it? That's no, no, not that.
• 19:57
  I remember. But maybe it was Cause it was I
• 20:02
  do remember it being a fairly weird experience because I'd
• 20:07
  listen to the cassette, which I'd got for my sixth birthday
• 20:09
  the summer before and that was the day that I bought my first
• 20:14
  target books as well. So it's a really etched in my
• 20:16
  memory and I bought the cassette.
• 20:18
  So, I think I'd imagined what the story looked like in my
• 20:22
  head, and then watched it. And I can remember it being a
• 20:28
  bit odd actually seeing this. I've been, there's probably lots
• 20:34
  of fans who were like that. Who first came to it from the
• 20:36
  audio version and then had to imagine what it looked like from
• 20:40
  that. I'm wondering, if this is one of
• 20:42
  those few stories that wouldn't disappoint what you actually saw
• 20:45
  it on the screen just because of how well made it is.
• 20:50
  That's it. I think, you know, the plot is
• 20:53
  fantastic. Script is fantastic.
• 20:55
  The performance is really bring a life of got em dice, Nia
• 21:01
  General, Gruber with these little help.
• 21:03
  Yes, you know, here, and he's doing a really good.
• 21:09
  Performance as the fanatical. Military leaders and he's like,
• 21:15
  he's got that sort of will type that dolls from the place of
• 21:18
  this planet. You know what he about?
• 21:20
  That is like he's supposed to be a young inexperienced racist
• 21:25
  General. Yeah.
• 21:27
  And like, you could probably pull that line and go.
• 21:29
  Oh, that's like what that such over-the-top delivery.
• 21:32
  But actually, he's like a petulant kid who's been putting
• 21:35
  it off in the Army, you know, and that really works you can
• 21:39
  you can see it odds. It's over-the-top acting or you
• 21:40
  could see it's world-building. It's you.
• 21:43
  In this city puts you let you know what the mindset of the car
• 21:47
  LED military leaders is so he's the general it isn't the same
• 21:51
  ranting that a Dalek would do. Yeah and they'd play that trick
• 21:55
  several times is because davros gets a lot of moments does.
• 21:58
  Yeah we're here and it's like a dolly and it's really clever.
• 22:02
  Yeah he cost muto's the discussed in his voice talking
• 22:07
  about muto's about like other. It is it's just it's building
• 22:11
  that that paolello Between these people and you know, what
• 22:15
  they're going to end up as isn't it?
• 22:17
  You know, I got a question for a pair of you again, it's going
• 22:20
  back to how adult this is because it's something that's
• 22:23
  just occurred to me. Do you think perhaps some
• 22:27
  stories like this become more disturbing as an adult?
• 22:32
  When you realize what it's paralleling what you know, this
• 22:37
  is about the second world war, isn't it?
• 22:39
  The atrocities and the, my vote and yeah, as a child, you're not
• 22:42
  really aware of all of You just see an exciting story but as an
• 22:45
  adult you can kind of take in all the source material and and
• 22:50
  it seems a bit more nightmarish for it.
• 22:52
  Yeah, the layers of this is is fantastic and this is why people
• 23:00
  always say oh well, Robert Holmes must have had a hand in
• 23:03
  this because Terry Nation doesn't write like this.
• 23:05
  But actually termination does write like this when he's
• 23:08
  allowed to when he's passionate about the stories.
• 23:13
  That he wants to tell. So when it's not just a normal
• 23:16
  Dalek story, something has triggered his imagination.
• 23:20
  So at the same old, this is great.
• 23:21
  Be of music, but it's not the best one.
• 23:25
  They shouldn't wrote the First episodes of survivors and Blake
• 23:28
  7, which is exactly and that's why I think I'm sure Robert
• 23:36
  Holmes had a had a hand in this because he's a script editor, he
• 23:40
  would have done but I think this is more Terry Nation than Terry
• 23:43
  nation is generally given credit for because it's the same kind
• 23:48
  of writing as that first episode of survivors and that first
• 23:52
  episode of Blake's 7 and it's the World building that he is
• 23:56
  good at and I think character stuff that he is good at when he
• 23:59
  gets a chance where you can feel Holmes's influence is how
• 24:02
  polished the dialogue is. Yes, because I know that's the
• 24:11
  mark of a good script editor where he comes and just polishes
• 24:14
  it up at the end. Yeah, there's a there's a scene
• 24:16
  coming up in episode 2 which is well point out when we get there
• 24:20
  which is pure 100% of whom's and but I think you know Terry
• 24:26
  nation is Certainly much maligned and much unappreciated.
• 24:33
  I feel, you know, we've all played the Terry Nation episode
• 24:37
  1. Drinking game with regards to
• 24:40
  dr. Hill but Is Terry Nation a hack.
• 24:45
  Let me ask you guys, but that's not an insult.
• 24:48
  It's not that. I know.
• 24:49
  That's not the interesting question.
• 24:51
  The interesting question is, does it matter?
• 24:53
  No, no. And I think only matters that he
• 24:56
  doesn't deliver the goods by. We talked about this when we
• 24:59
  were doing the math Tara, didn't way that there was absolutely a
• 25:01
  space for like subversive writing.
• 25:04
  And there was absolutely a space for like sword and are Adventure
• 25:07
  cereal. Yeah, that's her relations so
• 25:09
  good. You know, model me and you
• 25:11
  discussed it in ambassadors when we talk about Terrance dicks
• 25:15
  being a hot as well. Yeah.
• 25:16
  See and you know you need people who can churn out a good script
• 25:21
  and can do it very quickly and you know very efficiently and
• 25:25
  what not and hearing they should could do that really lost.
• 25:28
  Absolute. Look at Blake's 7.
• 25:30
  You know the first series of public 7 where he writes every
• 25:32
  story, he struggled. All right let's not pretend he
• 25:36
  didn't because when you get to season one of Blake's 7, he's
• 25:40
  not in it. It did it.
• 25:41
  And there's a lot of variety in there in Thankfully Chris
• 25:44
  poachers that of Polish the dialogue up and give it a scrub
• 25:47
  and make, you know, the count as a little bit more interesting, a
• 25:50
  little bit more engaging which is exactly what Bob Holmes is
• 25:53
  doing here. But the point is, you know,
• 25:56
  Terry Nation can do this, Terry Nation can Terrance dicks
• 25:59
  couldn't just sit and knock out the script without any cares in
• 26:03
  the world. But the Fantastic thing about
• 26:05
  this story is this is what happens when not so much.
• 26:08
  You give Terry Nation, the freedom to do stomach different,
• 26:11
  but you insist on it. When you see Him, that's not
• 26:15
  good enough. Terry, you know, your you just
• 26:17
  rest on your laurels a little bit.
• 26:18
  Now come back and give me something really good and he
• 26:21
  goes away. It comes back.
• 26:23
  That's that story. Is that it?
• 26:25
  Well, that's very let's enter and sticks.
• 26:27
  Both Tower of it's a great story but Terry but you sold it to us
• 26:31
  twice before. But you know, what's the fusion
• 26:34
  here is really interesting because you've got barriers and
• 26:37
  terrorist acts that set this up. And I think Barry Letts handed.
• 26:41
  The idea of Genesis of the Daleks stereo You know, go and
• 26:44
  write that and I think they had a hand in Italy with the scripts
• 26:49
  being written. But this absolutely is not what
• 26:52
  would have been put on screen if this was let's and dicks?
• 26:56
  No, no no horror likely elements will be for right down.
• 27:00
  Yeah, you've got a new script editor and a new producer of
• 27:04
  come in, who have been lumbered by the previous production team
• 27:08
  with stories about old monsters that they don't want to do.
• 27:11
  But somehow they get this script which works in their, their
• 27:20
  vision of Doctor Who and they're able to do, bring something into
• 27:24
  it and injection of Grittiness almost.
• 27:29
  I think that absolutely works for the story and that's what
• 27:34
  hinge live brings to this, isn't it?
• 27:35
  Yes, like I said to you earlier, he said he was it Pacey are than
• 27:39
  don't make it and make it real. And yeah, and then you've got
• 27:43
  obviously Terry Nation, sort of sense, of sort of fatalism, and
• 27:47
  bleakness, and sense of adventure, because you've got
• 27:49
  the clams know, like going on in this as well.
• 27:52
  And then you've got Robert Holmes has like polish with the
• 27:56
  dialogue. So yeah, what you've got.
• 27:57
  Is the best contributors of Doctor Who including Terry
• 28:01
  Nation all coming together. And that's why this is as good
• 28:04
  as it is. Yeah.
• 28:05
  And then you've got David Maloney coming in and casting it
• 28:09
  beautifully, I hear we've got Peter miles who In the previous
• 28:15
  season, as we've discussed Joe because we discuss most Doctor
• 28:17
  Who now was Professor Whitaker, in invasion of the dinosaurs,
• 28:22
  who with the best will in the world was a rather camp and
• 28:25
  rather feminine character thankless role what it is.
• 28:29
  But here look at him, he's absolutely chilling.
• 28:34
  Honestly, I would and this scene, this scene is just
• 28:37
  horrible. Yeah, must keep the college
• 28:41
  race. Pure.
• 28:43
  Imperfect. I rejected the scene that we
• 28:47
  kind of talked over, which has got that bit of music, like the
• 28:49
  night of March. And, ya know.
• 28:51
  Again - him alone. He's just framing them in, you
• 28:54
  know, close up. He's been lit From Below which
• 28:58
  is just giving Shadow and Menace.
• 29:01
  It's not just, it's not just in Hinchcliffe and nation and Palms
• 29:05
  come together on. This is everybody.
• 29:07
  Yeah, everyone's bringing their a game, you know, costume
• 29:11
  designers to the set. Designers exactly the most
• 29:14
  unique designer Elizabeth sladen.
• 29:16
  Look at Nida look at Nader's Aryan cross around his neck.
• 29:20
  Are your glasses as well. It's all that attention.
• 29:24
  A salute as well that everything is just, you know, everyone's on
• 29:29
  the same page here and everyone is making the exact Seem story
• 29:34
  that the want to make which is, you know, this nutsy parallel
• 29:38
  between the Cards and the Daleks and, you know, absolutely
• 29:42
  selling this that these guys are awful.
• 29:45
  Do you not feel that everyone's on the same page?
• 29:47
  Like for once it's out they've had one of those new series tone
• 29:50
  means and everyone Chloe well because it wouldn't have used to
• 29:54
  have those meetings. You know, the the director would
• 29:56
  get around with the script editor and the right.
• 29:59
  Evan, everyone would sit down and and have a chat about.
• 30:02
  I don't think these Told meetings are quite as new as
• 30:06
  well. Make out.
• 30:06
  Just don't take the call them that and it was probably a lot
• 30:08
  more be are involved. Well, then I must have our sin
• 30:11
  because I'll tell you what lasts only all over the place.
• 30:15
  It's probably a case of you know, cartmell coming in and you
• 30:18
  know, being very wet behind the ears and very green and you know
• 30:23
  needs to learn to stop his authority little bit.
• 30:25
  And but where is this is just add.
• 30:29
  Here we go things hang on here we go.
• 30:31
  Here is another stock to Cliff Anger.
• 30:33
  I mean, this is staggered. Look, look at Sarah J.
• 30:36
  Scared face, I davros, I mean log.
• 30:39
  Wow, I mean, just the idea half man, half Dalek and just, how
• 30:46
  are you? Look at the lighting in this
• 30:48
  thing? Yeah, it's a dog.
• 30:49
  He's hot covered from the channel.
• 30:52
  Yeah. Only late 9mm is coming from the
• 30:53
  chair and from his eye piece in his head.
• 30:57
  I'll look up this music here when he's hot.
• 30:58
  Yeah I would make a step and of the Dalek that wow.
• 31:07
  Now that is a great, Dalek reveal so I'm transfixed.
• 31:12
  I'm actually know what do you think now and and how he posed
• 31:16
  this dialogue? The Mercury is perfect.
• 31:21
  Yeah my God. It's so good.
• 31:23
  It literally Goosebumps doesn't it?
• 31:25
  Yeah. And then you get the call back
• 31:27
  to that in the stolen Earth. And Journey's End.
• 31:31
  It's just beautiful because she was there.
• 31:34
  Right at the. Beginning of all of this, I
• 31:37
  think everybody involved knows how important this story is the
• 31:43
  Genesis of the Daleks. And so, there is an effort to
• 31:46
  make very iconic moment. So I don't think those who
• 31:49
  always succeeds at that. But that Cliffhanger is, it's
• 31:54
  absolutely iconic, isn't it? It's yeah.
• 31:57
  It's what was said, it's everything.
• 31:58
  It's the set. Its The costume, it's the
• 32:00
  direction, it's the script, and it's the performances.
• 32:03
  It's the lighting. It's every single element of
• 32:08
  this true working in such Perfect Harmony.
• 32:10
  They give us something that is just, you know, we took, we
• 32:14
  talked about this long enough. Now this show to know that all
• 32:18
  those elements you just listed their phrase are generally
• 32:22
  speaking in the classic series. Something goes wrong, one thing.
• 32:25
  I think that you down and every now and again, It all just
• 32:30
  sings.