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Maladaptive · System Speak: Complex Trauma and Dissociation

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Over: Welcome to the System Speak Podcast, a podcast about Dissociative Identity Disorder. If you are new to the podcast, we recommend starting at the beginning episodes and listen in order to hear our story and what we have learned through this endeavor. Current episodes may be more applicable to longtime listeners and are likely to contain more advanced topics, emotional or other triggering content, and or reference earlier episodes that provide more context to what we are currently learning and experiencing. As always, please care for yourself during and after listening to the podcast. Thank you.
• 1:02
  Okay, guys. There's so many things to catch up on, and I have 8,000 things to tell you, so we better get started. No. Seriously. Okay.
• 1:11
  Before we get into everything, I have to go back to the podcast with Lynn Harris, which I just edited. Edited. Edited. That's really hard to say in English, you guys. You hearing people and your weird words.
• 1:26
  Edited. Edited. Edited. Edited. Edited.
• 1:39
  How many duh duhs do you put on the end of the word edit if you already did your editing? Ed duh duh. This is worse than speech therapy. I can't even we're just gonna have to move on. But a few things I wanted to say.
• 1:59
  First of all, she talked about functional dissociation. Like, she used that as a phrase. So if she can say functional dissociation, why can't we say functional multiplicity? Wait. Because it's just hard to say.
• 2:14
  I can't say that word either. I mean, functional multiplicity. If she can't say, now nobody can say nothing. You guys, maybe I shouldn't be doing another podcast if I still can't talk. Okay.
• 2:29
  Let me try again. Centered. Centered. Centered. I'm just kidding.
• 2:34
  Okay. She talked about functional dissociation. So if you can say functional dissociation, why can't it be a thing to be functionally multiple or functionally plural or functional multiplicity? I know that we're playing with language and that this is a big piece of the conference coming up, But, like, can't that be a thing even though I am crazy and diagnosed as crazy? No, guys.
• 3:10
  Don't do that to yourself. It's really offensive. But if it's actually a thing, then why can't we just change the word so it sounds nicer so that maybe I will be nice to myself? I'm just saying. Pretty interesting.
• 3:29
  Right? Oh, no. You don't have to pretend it's interesting. But I'm just saying, I couldn't believe she used those words together because it's kind of what we've been asking people to do. So I wanted to point out that she did, even though she wasn't talking about DID at the time necessarily.
• 3:46
  And she also kind of used it in contrast to maladaptive dissociation, which apparently is a problem. So, be all functional, you guys. Do not be maladaptive. Like, say in the present, let's go. Focus.
• 4:05
  Focus. Focus. Stay with me. Okay. Then she talked about a lot of brain stuff, and that's cool if you like brain stuff, but I only know about brains from Indiana Jones in that one scene when they have the never mind.
• 4:19
  We can't talk about it. Yeah. We're not gonna talk about that. Okay. Oh, that totally just made me have, like, a flashback of something from when Molly worked at the hospital, and I'm not even gonna talk about it right now, but I almost threw up.
• 4:39
  Oh, that was unpleasant. That was really unpleasant. I do not need Molly memories. I do not wanna know Molly things. Why is that even in my head?
• 4:53
  Get out of my head. Molly needs to back off. Oh, that was some nastiness. Oh, man. Okay.
• 5:03
  Okay. Focus. I don't even remember what I was gonna talk about now, about what Lynn Harris said. I feel like there was something really actually important. And you guys, I was gonna be super intelligent and everything.
• 5:22
  And now I'm sorry. You're out of luck because, oh, whatever just happened, that was not cool, and it messed me up. So I'm just gonna have to go to something else. So so much for functional. I'm just gonna stay in the maladaptive category.
• 5:45
  Okay. We have a notebook that we need to talk about. So our notebook for therapy. Right? First of all, it's spring break, and we miss the therapist like crazy.
• 5:57
  I that's a lot of crazy for today, you guys. Don't let the word come in your vocabulary, or you will just cuss like a sailor because we're not crazy. I'm maladaptive. No. Okay.
• 6:12
  So this is the week we do not get to see the therapist, and that's not cool, except I know it's real life. And so we're trying really hard to be fine. And do you know how we are best at being fine? By being overwhelmed and busy. And so we have jam packed this week and last week so that we would not miss the therapist trying to make time go faster.
• 6:35
  All it's done is made us maladaptive. Okay? So so, like, I can't even tell you. First of all, we had two little brats outside kids. I mean, that was really disrespectful.
• 6:49
  I'm sorry. So we had two kids in the hospital last week. They are both out of the hospital now. That makes life better. Everything's fine.
• 6:57
  One of them is just the normal airway baby who can't breathe. Ugh. Just breathe, baby. And then our middle son is gonna have spine surgery, and that's a big old deal, apparently. Like, when we adopted him, we knew he had cerebral palsy, but then he went to this other, like, completely random appointment last week, last month.
• 7:20
  I don't actually know because I don't do kid appointments. But he just went to, like, a regular appointment for something, like, he's been falling over a lot, except that's a cerebral palsy thing. Anyway, totally turns out he has spina bifida. We had no idea. No idea.
• 7:36
  No one told us, and now he's, like, 10. And so he has to go have some surgery that you're supposed to get when you're a baby. So bam. Another point for medical trauma. Yay, family.
• 7:47
  Let's just deal with this because we are maladaptive. Okay. So so that is one thing. And then next week, doctor e goes to some nerd conference somewhere and has to speak. And so she's gonna be gone next week having to speak, which if I get to do something fun, then that's cool.
• 8:10
  But if I don't, it's not cool because we spent, like, the last three weeks either taking care of children or writing presentations, and I am over it. So over it. And so I don't even know what that's about or where we're going, but we have to go somewhere. So next week, we have to go to therapy and back, which is, like, eight hours just of driving time. And then the next morning, we have to get on an airplane, and then we're gone for, like, three days and then come home, and there's some kind of family something.
• 8:43
  Ugh. I don't even know, but we are totally overcommitted right now. But, also, the other thing that's next week is the I think it's actually really hard to say because clearly, I'm not speaking well today. So, oh, I made a rhyme. Dude, when you have lots of kids in your house who are, like, under age 10, rhymes are very cool.
• 9:05
  And I just made one. Did you hear it? Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Okay.
• 9:10
  So, anyway, it's hard for me to say because I can't talk today. See? Rhyming. No more rhyming, and I mean it. Anybody want a peanut?
• 9:23
  This is what Jean Marc just said in my head. Every time. Oh my goodness. Okay. So the point is that next week is the conference for DID, about DID, at the same time as the ISSTD conference.
• 9:41
  So if you don't know, the ISSTD is I need some doctor e help. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah.
• 9:48
  Blah. This is when we need to be functional and not maladaptive. What is the word? What are the words? I don't need correcting.
• 9:56
  I just need the answer. International Society for this study of trauma and dissociation. Maybe? I think? So that's a big conference about DID is what it means.
• 10:09
  And it's in New York, but it's not really for survivors. Like, they very much focus it on clinicians and nerves, and it's super expensive, and it's always in New York. Wow. Definitely hanging out in the maladaptive category today. That has made life a little crazy.
• 10:30
  Oh, crazy. Again, I used the word. What happens when you fail maladaptive? Like, if you're already maladaptive and then you fail maladaptive like you are maladaptiver, what happens when you get worse? Then do you actually land on crazy, or you just have shame about being crazy when they had given you a way out with fancy words that meant not quite crazy?
• 10:54
  Like, I don't really know what happens. Okay. So moving on. The other thing that's happening for our system is that somehow now we're in two groups. So first of all, we are missing the therapist, but we're trying to stay, like, busy and focused and not panicking about not having therapy.
• 11:14
  Like, we're trying to stay in now time ish because we're maladaptive. I learned a new word, and I'm going to keep using it. And we are trying to, like, be nice to people, like the husband and the children. We're trying to keep stuff done, like doctor e is an actual real job that pays the mortgage. And we're trying to, like, do all the functioning things that we can do because we're supposed to be functioning, not maladaptive.
• 11:43
  So we're focusing it on the functioning. We're trying. We're trying really, really hard, but it's been a hard week to do it. But we've done it, and we're doing it, and that's cool. But somehow, now we are in two groups.
• 11:56
  You guys, two groups. So first of all, we did a group last fall with the Chris's that was really, really super helpful and kind of a breakthrough for us, and you can hear all of that at the very beginning of the podcast. But now we had a new thing happen where somehow m has gotten us into a group, and Emma has gotten us into a group. And so now we're in two groups. So, like, what?
• 12:24
  So it's like DID explosion here. Like, we have moved from maladaptive to functioning to functionally maladaptive. I'm pretty sure is what's happened. We are now functionally maladaptive. Okay?
• 12:39
  So we have two groups. One, Em has a new therapist that is local that we don't have to drive to see, except she only sees her once a month, and she only sees her to talk about the dead baby. Well, that was terrible and probably triggering. I'm sorry. The four year old, our daughter, our youngest daughter that's on palliative care.
• 13:01
  So we're supposed to talk about her with this lady who was already like, are you dissociating? And I'm like, of course not. I'm very high functioning. Why? Do you think I'm maladaptive?
• 13:14
  Because you're maladaptive, punk. Like, what am I supposed to say? How are we supposed to keep that a secret? And so it's all this drama and really hard work, but we made it in, got into group, and have homework and things to write. And we could go weekly if we want, but we don't wanna go weekly.
• 13:31
  First of all, it's kind of triggering stuff. Like, if you're going because you're overwhelmed because your daughter is dying or chronically ill and won't die, which yay that she won't die. Like, I'm not trying to be cold and crass, you guys. It's called depersonalization. I know because I'm in group.
• 13:46
  I am functionally maladaptive. Okay? But if you want to go get help because you have six chronically medically fragile children, you don't wanna go to a group and listen to other people's stories about their chronically medically fragile children. Do you? Maybe you do.
• 14:11
  M does. But we're only going once a month because that's all we can handle. And also because we actually do have a therapist, and we are keeping her. Let me be very clear for all of you and for all of me because we are functionally maladaptive and that means you communicate and we are communicating that we are keeping the therapist our therapist capital t, capital t, the therapist, capital letters. Okay?
• 14:40
  We are keeping her for like actual real therapy. And so we have her, but then also we got into some other group that is another research study, kind of like the one we did last fall, but a different group with a hospital that is trying a research study about online psychoeducation for people with dissociative disorders or something. And so we had to do all of this intake assessments to see if we could get in the group and if we could be one of the free people in the group and, like, not pay them money. Because six children, you don't have money. That's just maladaptive, you guys.
• 15:25
  And so we are in this group now. And so now not only do we have all this real life stuff happening that makes us so very functioning, Now we have all this therapy homework, which is maladaptive. You guys, homework is maladaptive. I just wanna make sure you know it's in the category where it belongs because no. So anyway, here's the fun thing that is functional about maladaptive homework.
• 15:53
  It is that there is juicy stuff in the notebook, and we're gonna talk about it. Yes. So for one of the groups, part of what we have to do is that workbook, the workbook, you guys, with Boone and Steele and Vanderhardt from, like, The Netherlands. Well, Kathy Steele's from here, but we saw her here, and then she and the other two were just in The Netherlands. And our friend Sarah saw her like last week at that conference they together have put out the workbook the workbook the skills training for patients and therapists like what is it called?
• 16:36
  Coping with trauma related dissociation. So here's what you need to know about this workbook. First of all, workbooks are maladaptive. Homework is maladaptive. Therapy homework is maladaptive.
• 16:50
  I'm just saying. But they say it's going to make you more functional. And so, yay, functioning. Because if you're functioning, you can order your own pizza. This is what Okay.
• 17:03
  But also, I think doctor E or somebody is reading the body keeps score by Bessel van der Kolk, and that's a whole different book, not a workbook, but it's super nerdy and intense and very boring, except really awesome if you can get through those layers. So there are things she likes about it, like that it makes it a history of dissociation treatment or trauma treatment, like, accessible and relevant to what's happening now, I guess, it's not relevant to me because I'm maladaptive. But there's one section in it that was talking about how babies have to bond with their mother during the first twelve hours and how during those twelve hours, it actually changes some things about their hormones and in their brain. I cannot even explain this. Like, doctor, you can talk about it.
• 17:56
  It is not my thing. But here's what is my thing is snooping, and snooping is functional. Snooping is not maladaptive. Okay? And snooping, she wrote this note in our notebook.
• 18:11
  How does she know this? First of all, like, this is not her territory. This is not her thing. Where does she get this information? There's a note.
• 18:20
  It says, this is not my memory. It's from a cousin and an aunt. But then it goes on to stuff that I'm not going to read on the podcast because it's, like, memory stuff, memory specific. Well, not her memory, but, like, it's the story of why we went into foster care the first time. And we were, like, six months maybe, six months, eight months old.
• 18:45
  I don't know because that is before your memory is remembering, which is maladaptive. And so I don't know the answer, But like six or eight months or something. Like, have a picture and some papers about it. But why? Here's my question.
• 19:03
  Here's why this is functional to talk about. It is functional to talk about because I wanna know why is everybody up in everybody else's business. Like, what the what is going on in here? Since when does she write about memories when we were babies, whether it's her memories or not? Like you know what you need to do you need to go back to your polyvagal theories and talk about brains and nerd things not about babies and about your own story of putting piece together of this or that or thinking you're so clever interviewing people to drop little bits of truth bombs about what our real life is like.
• 19:45
  Like use Newsday out of it and mind your own business. That's what I'm thinking. Because snooping is maladaptive. Oh, wait. I was snooping first.
• 19:57
  Oh, dang it. Custing is maladaptive. Okay. Okay. Now here on another page is something else, and I'm just going to read it or part of it because and the reason why is because someone actually asked about this, about him and Molly working together.
• 20:19
  Like, I don't know why people are doing it. That's exactly what I'm talking about. Everyone's up in everybody's business. But this is in the notebook, and I'm going to share part of it because it goes back to what we were talking about with time earlier, like, few podcasts ago. Like, I can't even remember when it was because I'm maladaptive.
• 20:39
  Okay. But here I don't know. Anyway, let me just read this. She said, this this is from Molly in the notebook from Molly to Em. It says, there are two things I would like to reply to in regards to what you have shared recently on the podcast, in the notebook, and in the app.
• 20:59
  Like, we're using that app where we can talk to each other. What is it called? Let me look it up, and I will tell you. It's called self talking, and it's an app. You can set up different profiles on this app.
• 21:14
  So, like, you can add a picture and like, not super detailed of a profile, but you can add a picture, and the different profiles can chat with each other. So it's not sending it out away from your phone, sending it to another device. But on the device, on the app itself, you can have different conversations with different insiders. And so it's called self talking, and it has been, like, super, super helpful for us. So I don't know who does the self talking app, but they should totally pay us lots of money to keep talking about them on the podcast because we are using it and loving it, and it's really helped a lot.
• 21:53
  But anyway, okay. She said, first, I just wanted to thank you for your courage and vulnerability. You have worked hard to share with us your very unique experiences and perspective. You have also worked hard to connect and communicate with the others even while that still felt frightening. I did not know that you held so many pieces about the parents since we were since we were adults.
• 22:20
  I did not know about the ways that continued to be so difficult even though we were grown. That must have been hard and lonely. And I hear there are so many layers of shame. I'm glad you have the therapist to talk with about these things. One of the things I wanted to respond to myself was about what you shared about motherhood being so difficult.
• 22:43
  Okay. So this part is gonna get all Molly y. So if you don't wanna hear church things, like, fast forward just a little bit because she's not, like, preachy, but she's going into God for just a minute. So going into God, that is functional. If you go into God, that is functional.
• 23:03
  Oh my goodness. Okay. She said, I know the greater plan for us to have joy even now is through hard things. I don't mean fake Pollyanna happiness that is dependent on our circumstances. I mean a joy in a greater context despite them.
• 23:21
  Part of this comes through learning who God is and who God isn't and who we are even while we are still learning to become more like him. I think then because of this, that this is why family as it was meant to be, not like what we lived through, is so very essential to the plan of happiness because nothing teaches us more about ourselves and God than marriage and motherhood. It is difficult because it is spiritual school and the lessons are in grace and mercy and compassion. Being married, doing the work of that relationship, and motherhood gives us opportunity to practice these principles in real ways. These lessons are not head knowledge, but heart living, and they aren't really real until they are lived.
• 24:10
  And you live them beautifully with the husband and the children. That's just what makes you so real even while you struggle to see it, like Jacob wrestling with the angel. God is so pleased with you and proud of you and so full of love for you. Oh my goodness. Okay.
• 24:29
  So the SAP stuff is almost done, but the next part is important. I mean, it still has God in it, but but listen. The other thing I really want to respond to has to do with your struggle of feeling crazy. As I have listened to your podcast and read what you've shared in the notebook and on the app, it seems to me that what you feel is difficult is all these other parts also being a part of you. I cannot explain all the clinical things like trauma or amnesia.
• 25:02
  Keep talking to the therapist about those things. I have found her to be very receptive to questions when I have them, even if I don't stay for a whole session. But I can share a tiny bit of my own perspective if that's okay. May I suggest that like the outside children, rather than seeing them as an intrusion of others that cost you time and energy, try to see them as others in the system as a whole. And it's okay if you don't see them as part of you, and it's okay if you don't see them as parts of you as the whole.
• 25:38
  You don't have to be the whole with them or the outside children. Just be you. Let the whole simply be time, at least for now. Think of a timeline, and then there's a timeline. So, like, there's four, one of our littles, 12, John Mark, 17, Cassie, 30 four, Molly, 30 five, doctor e.
• 26:01
  You are not just on the timeline with the age of the body, but also in the present moment where you take care of so many. And then there's another timeline where it's like age 30, fostering, age 32, our youngest daughter was born, age 33, she went to Cincinnati Hospital, thirty four, put on palliative care, thirty five, we moved to Kansas City. But in the past, in each of those moments, God was with you then and is still now. Both are true because God is outside of time. Time is only relevant to life on earth, the cycle around the sun, the spinning on the axis, the getting children to bend on time.
• 26:42
  So we experience time in the present because we are still on the timeline. But God isn't on the timeline. He's outside of it, seeing all those times at once big enough to hold you through all of it. And then there's another timeline with, like, arrows showing how, like, god is bigger than the timeline. Okay.
• 27:07
  So that's, like, functional. Right? God is functional. There we go. Now time is safe, and God is functional.
• 27:16
  Okay. Sorry. Focus. So, really, we, the whole of us, are not so much crazy as just not bound to the timeline even though it seems some are stuck even though it seems that some are stuck. But after this mortal life, we won't be stuck on a timeline or associated with life on Earth.
• 27:36
  So for us on the timeline, it feels crazy, absolutely, but only because it's not the natural state of things. We will one day live outside of time as God does, and so I don't think we need to get too hung up on that. God has always been there. What the therapist helps us do, I think, is see us as God sees us. And then okay.
• 27:59
  Here's the part I wanted to talk about. Then, like, the timeline is back on there, and it says m at the top with a line under it. So there's a line between m and the timeline. And then there's an arrow down, and it says becomes m without fear or confusion, and there's a timeline without the line blocking between her and the timeline. And then another arrow down that says becomes us all.
• 28:26
  You are not what happened to you or them or us. See beyond it. Love, Molly. Okay. So I don't know how to explain that better.
• 28:34
  I'm gonna have to take a picture and post it on the blog because you need to see this. Maybe it just makes sense to us because she was writing to m, but it seemed important. I don't know. Or exciting. We'll see.
• 28:49
  Okay. So back to, like, functioning maladaptive. Here we go. The group workbook. We have done two chapters.
• 28:57
  We had a chapter last week, and we had a chapter this week. Last week's chapter was about being in the present. So this is the other thing that's changing. It's like now I'm losing time to Emma because Emma is, like, getting better at staying present. So what the what is that about?
• 29:13
  Like, she's not cooler than me. How does she get to do what she wants to do? And I'm still trying to fight for time and just want to play. So so that's cool. Like, she can go running on the trails and make all the littles happy so we can settle down and work again.
• 29:30
  But what about, like, going out to lunch maybe? Or on a date? Or maybe get some ice cream? Let's talk about those things. Can we do some of those things?
• 29:40
  But our workbook, which is the coping with trauma related dissociation book, says that being in present is essential to healing. That sounds functional instead of maladaptive. What interferes? Oh, stuff that interferes? Maladaptive.
• 29:57
  Are you getting the hang of it? So being present is essential to healing. Being present is functional. When something interferes, that is maladaptive. Okay.
• 30:10
  So things that are maladaptive or that interfere are stress, triggers, emotions, flashbacks, memories, conflict, and the conflict can be internal or external. That's me. I'm the conflict. Not really. But see so that's what's maladaptive is the conflict, not me.
• 30:28
  Oh, that puts me back in the functional category. So if the conflict is maladaptive, but I don't cause any conflict and I am not the same as conflict, that puts me in functional and back off the maladaptive list. So I'm back on the good list, you guys. So maybe I can get a date. So it says retreating from the present may feel better, but it increases avoidance and complicates problems.
• 30:56
  So retreating, maladaptive. Increasing avoidance, maladaptive. Complicating problems, maladaptive. Retreating and dissociation feels like being spacey, foggy, fuzzy, dizzy, far away, distant, may not realizing until later what's happened, being engulfed by negative images, feelings, or thoughts, or worries from the past. It may feel like watching yourself.
• 31:22
  And they said to focus instead on the here and now. That's something that Christa say too. Our therapist says now time is safe, so that's what we go with. But here is the crazy thing. It also said that dissociation is an adaption to past trauma.
• 31:41
  So this goes back to what I was gonna say about Lynn Harris, and Kathy Steele also said it, is that dissociation in and of itself is not pathology. Pathology is bad. That's where crazy is. Dissociation in and of itself is not pathology. It is an adaption to trauma, and trauma is in memory time.
• 32:05
  It is in the past. So what's maladaptive is confusing now time and memory time. And the opposite of dissociation, according to them, is integration. We can talk about that differently later. And I know it's a scary word for a lot of people, but I like how they define it because Kathy Steele is the one.
• 32:28
  Remember, Kathy Steele is the one who was functional and said that integration is not a moment or a fixed point, but a journey and no different than for other people because even people without DID are not the same person that they were yesterday. So don't get too scared just because they say the I word, but they define it as functioning in a cohesive manner, being able to distinguish past from present, having a sense of self, and being more secure and safe. So there you go. So dissociation is a failure of that system, of that process. Dissociation is a failure of that process, and it interferes with and changes our sense of self and assigns personality to experiences.
• 33:20
  Well, I'm a lovely personality. I'm functional or mal wait. Now am I maladaptive, or am I functional? I don't even remember. I feel secure.
• 33:32
  I feel safe. I can distinguish past from present. Okay. Yeah. I'm on a functional list.
• 33:38
  Bam. Let's go with that. So here's the other thing that Emma's finally figured out is that when there is something assigned to one, it may not even exist for the other or there is denial or amnesia. So, like, when one part is feeling something, another part may not know about it. When one of us doesn't know about something, it's because someone else inside does know about something.
• 34:04
  My favorite new example of this is our password. Remember this? We had some really important documents that were on the computer, and someone put a password on them. And it took weeks and weeks, I think seven weeks for us to be able to get back into the documents because someone who had the password was not sharing the password. So the people who needed the password were not the same ones who had it.
• 34:28
  And so we could not get into those files on our computer. It also said in the book that dissociation happens because experiences are too threatening or overwhelming to integrate internally while not having enough support externally. So when your parents are maladaptive or you have to be maladaptive in response to your parents that's a whole lot of maladaptive. That's what that means. And they said, while dissociation in and of itself is functional, it becomes maladaptive because, and here's the part I didn't understand, it allows one part to continue functioning by avoiding it because that's functional, right?
• 35:13
  They said functioning. But here's the maladaptive part. It leaves another part stuck in the unresolved experience. That's maladaptive. That's just sad.
• 35:25
  That's gross and sad and awful, and that's why we have rescue missions. But it talked about how you can't just focus on hard things and why like, what is painful about the past right away because you have to focus on staying present and learning to tolerate it and working together like communication. Because working together or what's that called? Cooperation, collaboration, something, and communication, those are functional. And not working together, that's maladaptive.
• 36:00
  I'm good at that. Okay. Here so then there was homework for that chapter, and it says, notice if and how you avoid the topic. And she wrote Emma wrote, I don't remember therapy. I disappear when the children need me to do something instead of just being with them.
• 36:19
  I can't stay for movies with the husband. Oh, that's me. I watch movies with the husband. I don't want to read some things in the notebook when it seems scary. True that.
• 36:29
  True story. I don't know if there is something wrong with me or evil in me to make me write those things. Oh, that doesn't have anything to do with her. That's like memory time stuff. That's what that is.
• 36:46
  I have panic attacks when I cannot do something or it gets hard, then I can't stay even if I want to. Sometimes trying to stay uses up so much in me that I can't do what I was staying for. Well, that sounds maladaptive. Okay. And then we have chapter two, which says dissociation isn't why most of us come to therapy.
• 37:14
  Did you guys already know this? So, like, there are other things that are maladaptive too or other parts of your life that are also already hard or difficult enough that that's the actual real reason that you go to therapy. It says when dissociation is happening, you may not have feelings because someone else has them. Right? Or you may have memories that are missing because someone else has them.
• 37:37
  Right? Or you don't know about behaviors because that was me doing the behaviors. Behaviors are maladaptive, you guys. So it says, because those things don't feel like yours, that makes it feel like not me. And then when you feel like not me, then those things feel like them.
• 37:59
  And so then there's, like, this separation that comes, and they are dissociated parts of me. Not actually separate people, as in we share a body, but have developed their own name, age, preferences, history, and characteristics. And I know that part's kind of shady because some people are pretty sensitive about the people thing, but I'm just saying what the book says. So it talks about a sharing a body and then how we have individual names, ages, preferences, histories, and characteristics. But then what it says is that dissociation is about have about too much or too little, and it does too little first.
• 38:40
  And examples of too little happen. And so when one part is feeling too little, another part is feeling too much. Or when this part is feeling too much, that part is feeling too little. Okay? So things that are too little are things like amnesia, lost time, lost memories, misplaced feelings, lost skills and knowledge, lost touch with the body, or emotionally numb.
• 39:07
  So then it explains what dissociative amnesia is, like loss of memory, remembering only parts of experiences, feeling afraid to try and think about it, amnesia for the past, or amnesia in now time, like when you switch and you don't know why you're there or not knowing what you did or not knowing people who know you or waking up in conversations. That happens to me all the time. If you guys are sleeping right now, you should wake up. Like, wake up in this conversation. Okay?
• 39:36
  Because sleeping while I'm talking to you is maladaptive. So functioning is waking up in the conversation and paying attention to this awesome podcast. It also talked about time distortion, like time moving too fast or too slow, and confusion about time and space, like memory time and now time, but also places from memory time and places from now time. And then it explains something that I have never understood, but these big words now I totally get. Depersonalization is being estranged from yourself.
• 40:13
  Derealization is being estranged from your surroundings. So depersonalization, when you feel estranged from yourself, that's like a part of you is overwhelmed. You're watching yourself from outside the body. You're watching someone else move you. You're watching a movie of you.
• 40:31
  May have amnesia, you may not be aware of being hungry or cold or hurting. But derealization, when you're estranged from your surroundings, that feels like other people are not real or the places are not real. Like, is our therapist real? That's derealization. I had no idea that that was a thing.
• 40:52
  Like, we're not the only ones. So I'm now functionally maladaptive again because other people have felt this too. Familiar people or places may feel strange or unfamiliar or unreal. It can seem foggy. Other people's voices feel far away.
• 41:09
  It may happen when you're confused about memory time or now time. Does that make sense? So those are things that happen when there's not enough, when there's too little. The too little part of dissociation. It's all part of dissociation, but it's on the too little side.
• 41:27
  Now on the too big side are intrusions. So that's when a dissociated part or experience intrudes on another part or experience. And what that looks like are things like flashbacks, nightmares, body memories, impulses, influences, being controlled by others inside, hearing voices. And it can also be things like changes in awareness, like not feeling present, spacing out, losing time, daydreaming, difficulty concentrating, and not just because the podcast is boring, like legit difficulty concentrating. Okay.
• 42:03
  So then they talked about ways to do, like, grounding. And I know all of us know a lot about grounding and sensory experiences and trying to be in the present, but this book said to find anchors, like to find three things in each room in your house that specifically can help you and the others inside be grounded even if you're having a hard time. So, like, in our bedroom, our three things would be our teddy bear, our watch, and our note notebook, and the pens, which technically is four or even more if you count all the pens, but they're always together. So our notebook and pens, the teddy bear, and our watch. So I know that was, like, a lot of nerdom, and it was a lot of, I don't know about this time stuff and what Molly's trying to teach in, but it all seems super important.
• 43:01
  And so I wanted to share, and I'm gonna have to think about it some more, and I wanted everyone to hear it. And so I put it on the podcast to document that as we start these groups, and then we'll share more about group as they happen. Because everything in the attic, we kind of have been hiding from. I mean, not hiding from the attic, but hiding from talking about it because it was super intense, and there's been a lot of processing and settling and letting things letting them have time and space. And so we'll kinda come back to that, but I think this is important to know how to be grounded and how to be safe.
• 43:40
  And kind of for the first time, everyone in our system is on the same page. I feel like everyone. And to say everyone about anything maybe is too big of a deal or too hard. Maybe I'm overly functional. Maybe I'm making assumptions about the level of functioning, but it feels like for the first time we are moving at least tiny steps from maladaptive to functioning.
• 44:07
  So, like, I could totally be wrong, but as a general sense of the people that I'm aware of internally, We all know about DID now. We all know about the therapist now. We all know about the parents are dead. We all know about now time is safe. We all know about the husband.
• 44:29
  We all know where we live. We all know how to contact the therapist. And I think we are all reading the notebook, using the app, and listening to the podcast. And now we're all in group too, or at least paying attention to what happens in group and what we learn from group. So this was not like the how boring can Sasha be while she's maladaptive podcast so much as a things are shaken up podcast, and I need to process, like, all that's happening and all the changes and everybody being on board because this is the first time for us.
• 45:08
  It's not that we're all present at the same time. We're all co conscious about everything that's happening, but there is increased awareness, and increased awareness was on the functioning list. So I think that even though we have a long way to go, we are taking baby steps from the maladaptive category to the functioning category. And I think everybody needs some salsa for that. You're welcome, John Mark.
• 45:39
  Thank you for listening. Your support of the podcast, the workbooks, and the community means so much to us as we try to create something together that's never been done before, not like this. Connection brings healing, and you can join us on the community at www.systemspeakcommunity.com. We'll see you there.