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In Conversation with Angad Soin - How doing less drove global growth for Xero · What the Flux

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: This is what the floods. I'mb and It's Wednesday, the
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: fifth of November. Today Brett and Justin will be doing
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: a deep dive interview with Ungered Sein, the managing director
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: for Australia and New Zealand and global chief strategy officer
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: at Zero. But before that, here are the top three
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: business news stories from Australia and around the world. The
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Reserve Bank of Australia has made a decision to hold
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: the cash rate at three point six percent. For those
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: that have been following recent economic news, you might not
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: be that surprised by this outcome. That's because the annual
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: CPI for the quarter ending September jumped to three point
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: two percent. This means consumer spending is rebounding faster and
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: larger than the RBA expected. In other news, Cadbury sales
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: of the Pascal Clinker chocolate has gone up two hundred
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: and fifty percent after they went viral in a TikTok trend.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: The Clinker challenge involves people promising to do something if
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: they correctly guess the color of the clinker they bite into.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: Thanks to this trend, half a million Clinker bags were
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: sold in September and they sold out entirely in October.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: And finally, Meta, the parent the company of Facebook What's
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: Up on Instagram, plans to raise thirty billion dollars in
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: funding with their biggest ever bond sale. Meta reported that
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: these funds will be used to develop AI products and
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: data centers. That's it for me today. I'll pass it
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: over to Breton Justin for their fascinating conversation with Angered.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: Thanks V.
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: Welcome to what the flux in conversation today we have Angodswing,
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  Speaker 3: the Managing Director of Australia and New Zealand and global
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  Speaker 3: Chief strategy officer at Zero. Zero, of course, is the
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  Speaker 3: cloud based accounting software that started in New Zealand, listed
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: in Australia and now has over four point four million
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  Speaker 3: subscribers across one hundred and eighty countries. I'ngod joined Zero
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  Speaker 3: back in twenty twenty one, bringing with him experience from
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: a thirteen year stint at Deloitte. He was elevated to
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  Speaker 3: the global strategy function in twenty twenty three, and late
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: last year he took on leading Zero in Australia and
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: New Zealand, which is Zero's biggest region. Welcome to what
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: the flux in conversation NG.
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  Speaker 4: Good, thank you justin Thank you, Brett. Thanks for having me.
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  Speaker 4: I'm excited to be here. So do you want to
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  Speaker 4: give us a little bit of background? Sure, yeah, I'll
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  Speaker 4: try and condense it into a nutshell. I studied computer
• 2:02
  Speaker 4: science and business. I was always really interested in technology. Yes,
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  Speaker 4: I was that kid at high school that was a
• 2:08
  Speaker 4: nerd playing around with software and tech, and so they
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  Speaker 4: always fascinated me. But for me was the intersection of
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  Speaker 4: business and technology. So how were you using technology for
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  Speaker 4: what outcome as opposed to technology for its sake? And
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  Speaker 4: when I started working at IBM as a contractor and
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  Speaker 4: part of my student placement, it was in technology consulting
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  Speaker 4: and we were redoing lots of back end systems. I
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  Speaker 4: had a great time. It was a lot of fun.
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  Speaker 4: The thing that niggled at me, though, was no one
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  Speaker 4: could answer why we were doing it right, and I
• 2:35
  Speaker 4: was like, wait, hang on, I really wanted technology to
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  Speaker 4: be the driver to make lasting change or on impact
• 2:40
  Speaker 4: for a business or the world. But I want to
• 2:42
  Speaker 4: be at that decision at the front, which is why
• 2:44
  Speaker 4: did we implement and decide to go on a three
• 2:46
  Speaker 4: year journey to replace all these back end systems. So
• 2:48
  Speaker 4: I quickly learned that there was this job profession called
• 2:51
  Speaker 4: management consulting, which helps business leaders decide what they want
• 2:55
  Speaker 4: to do with their company. So started at Deloitte in
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  Speaker 4: that space and the culture really resonated with me. And
• 3:01
  Speaker 4: this is probably a through line through lots of different
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  Speaker 4: companies I work for, which is a bit of that
• 3:05
  Speaker 4: kind of underdog story a lot at the time for many.
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  Speaker 2: That may or may not know was four of the
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  Speaker 2: Big Four.
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  Speaker 4: There's lots of newspaper articles at that time of like
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  Speaker 4: is it just the big three that are going to come?
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  Speaker 4: And you know, before even I joined, there was a
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  Speaker 4: new leadership team that was really turning it around, and
• 3:20
  Speaker 4: so there was this great culture and mentality of like,
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  Speaker 4: we're going to prove people roll. I worked with a
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  Speaker 4: bunch of great leaders, great people, and I justin you
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  Speaker 4: worked in this industry. I think a lot of people
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  Speaker 4: sometimes say like, oh, for my sins.
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  Speaker 2: I was we do hear that a lot.
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  Speaker 4: I work with a badge Like, I think it is
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  Speaker 4: some of the best training you will get. Different people
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  Speaker 4: will enjoy it for a different period of time. You
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  Speaker 4: learn a lot of really good skills that I still
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  Speaker 4: use to this day, and so enjoy that for a
• 3:47
  Speaker 4: period of time, and then I really got the itch
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  Speaker 4: that I was even though I worked on digital strategy
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  Speaker 4: projects or other things, I really felt i'd got away
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  Speaker 4: a bit from technology, the thing I really enjoyed. And
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  Speaker 4: so I thought, hey, maybe it's time to move overseas
• 4:01
  Speaker 4: into VC.
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  Speaker 2: And you know, one of one million people that want
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: to do that at that time.
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  Speaker 4: And so, working with a partner at Delott, Damian Tamplin,
• 4:09
  Speaker 4: he said, hey, what if Delot would set up a
• 4:11
  Speaker 4: corporate venture fund?
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  Speaker 2: Would you do it? And I thought, yeah, I mean
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: why not?
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  Speaker 4: And so did that for a few years, ran their
• 4:18
  Speaker 4: strategy and transformation teams as well, and then Damien actually
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  Speaker 4: ironically joined zero was their chief strategy officer and came
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  Speaker 4: knocking a couple of times, and again similarly I said, well,
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  Speaker 4: he's an opportunity to working from Australia, really shape a
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  Speaker 4: global narrative, and so made that leap, as you said,
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  Speaker 4: took the chief strategy office a role on about two
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  Speaker 4: and a half years ago.
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  Speaker 2: We reset the strategy, we built.
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  Speaker 4: A new kind of exec team and been executing against that,
• 4:45
  Speaker 4: and then more recently took on this.
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  Speaker 5: Roll I'm talking about when you were starting out, did
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  Speaker 5: you imagine yourself leading a company, an accounting software company
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  Speaker 5: like zero one day?
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  Speaker 2: Definitely not.
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  Speaker 4: I do get asked many times like was this part
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  Speaker 4: of the master what is the master plan? And I
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  Speaker 4: can tell you there is no master plan, and that's
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  Speaker 4: probably contrary to it seems ironic for someone that's the
• 5:08
  Speaker 4: strategy consulting and you always say, like set your vision
• 5:10
  Speaker 4: and goals, but there is no master plan. And I
• 5:13
  Speaker 4: think a really you know, a key reason for that
• 5:15
  Speaker 4: was I found and I observed early on people would
• 5:18
  Speaker 4: get really excited about titles or roles or labels with industry.
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  Speaker 2: You know, I really want to be this industry. I
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  Speaker 2: really want to be that title. And the reality is you.
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  Speaker 4: Learn that different roles in different companies kind of do
• 5:29
  Speaker 4: different things. There are some things that are similar, like
• 5:31
  Speaker 4: the same strategy officer role title in one company can
• 5:35
  Speaker 4: do different things to in another. And I think if
• 5:38
  Speaker 4: I had followed and said like, hey, you know, I
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  Speaker 4: don't like I did not like accounting it. If I had,
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  Speaker 4: if I had kept that label in my head and
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  Speaker 4: I use that as my decision set, then what a
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  Speaker 4: wasted opportunity that I've been able to go after. So,
• 5:51
  Speaker 4: you know, I always tell people when you're trying to
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  Speaker 4: think of your next step in your career, don't focus
• 5:57
  Speaker 4: on the role. Yeah, focus on the title, and definitely
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  Speaker 4: don't focus on what you think other people think is
• 6:02
  Speaker 4: a wait to do. Because whatever job you will do,
• 6:05
  Speaker 4: there are crappy parts to it. You both know that,
• 6:08
  Speaker 4: and there's hard parts to it. It's like hard work
• 6:11
  Speaker 4: and so but the time that it's hard, if you
• 6:14
  Speaker 4: love what you're actually doing and why you're doing it,
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  Speaker 4: you'll get through it. If you're doing it because you
• 6:18
  Speaker 4: just want to or someone told you do, it's like
• 6:21
  Speaker 4: it's a grind for sure.
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  Speaker 5: Now I'm good. We have covered Zero many times on
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  Speaker 5: the pod. We know it started in New Zealand and
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  Speaker 5: Australia but has always had a very ambitious and global plan.
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  Speaker 5: What would you say, in your experience, has been the
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  Speaker 5: most challenging aspect of scaling Zero internationally?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah?
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  Speaker 4: Well, fun fact that actually Zero pretty much entered Australia,
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  Speaker 4: the UK and the US that practically that's not interesting.
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  Speaker 4: So it just shows you the vision that Rod had,
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  Speaker 4: the founder of Zero, the ambition he had, and you know,
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  Speaker 4: thanks to him we are where we are today for
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  Speaker 4: having that kind of big picture ambition from day one.
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  Speaker 4: I would say the biggest that we learned as we
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  Speaker 4: relooked at our strategy, and it seems ironic, was focus
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  Speaker 4: to scale globally. We actually needed to do less in
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  Speaker 4: a few places really well. And that I think is
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  Speaker 4: always the hard thing when I was advising other companies.
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  Speaker 4: You know, if you're looking for growth, often people believe
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  Speaker 4: more things in more places with more customers logically mathematically
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  Speaker 4: should equal more growth, right the challenges You've got to
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  Speaker 4: be able to execute it, sure, and it's hard to
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  Speaker 4: execute lots of things and lots of places.
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  Speaker 2: Really really well. And we're in a very competitive global environment.
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  Speaker 4: So I would say that that has been I think
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  Speaker 4: that's a little lesson for everyone, but I think as
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  Speaker 4: we've come on this journey, it's been something that's definitely
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  Speaker 4: helped us unlock execution of the last two years is like,
• 7:45
  Speaker 4: you know, we talk about it publicly in our investor
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  Speaker 4: presentation of our strategy. It's like, what are the three
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  Speaker 4: big jobs in the three markets we care about most?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, and so you've touched on growth a lot now.
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  Speaker 3: We have spoken about the growth of Zero and just
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  Speaker 3: growth in general for tech companies, but for people who
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: aren't keep in finance. Zero speak a lot about the
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: rule of forty. So can you explain to our audience
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  Speaker 3: what that means and why it's become such a big
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: focus for Zero's performance. Yeah, I think we're like a
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: lot of technology companies, had this moment right or during
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: COVID and not like any boom time in any economic cycle,
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: when you've got a lot of cash, people reward top
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: line growth, revenue growth, and they understand that you might
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: need to invest today be negative free cash flow, but
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: longer term we will get growth. And of course there
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: was a market correction, as there always is, and you
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: know it goes in waves, as you both know. So we,
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: like all other companies, had to say, hey, how what
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: is sustainable growth? And you would say so at that time,
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  Speaker 3: Like lots of companies, we said, hey, the rule of
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  Speaker 3: forty is a good and it's a well understood measure.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 4: So the reason it's also helpful is investors understand it.
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  Speaker 4: You can point to it, and you've talked about it
• 8:48
  Speaker 4: on the pod. But obviously very quickly it's like top
• 8:51
  Speaker 4: line growth with your free cash flow growth and people
• 8:53
  Speaker 4: might use different underlying profit metrics. You know that, but
• 8:57
  Speaker 4: that's the simplicity of it, right, like are you turning
• 8:59
  Speaker 4: enough bottom line profit as you grow? And it's add
• 9:02
  Speaker 4: those two things together and if that the growth rate
• 9:05
  Speaker 4: of those two things, you know, gives you your outcome
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  Speaker 4: the reason and I think we've now even evolved as
• 9:10
  Speaker 4: many companies have to like the rule of X, which
• 9:13
  Speaker 4: is actually the market does reward growth more than it
• 9:17
  Speaker 4: rewards pure cashal so you can have that ratio differently.
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  Speaker 4: I could be growing at five percent and thirty five
• 9:21
  Speaker 4: percent custurer religion, or i could be at a twenty twenty.
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  Speaker 2: I'm probably better.
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  Speaker 4: Rewarded from the market than five percent growth. And again
• 9:30
  Speaker 4: there's no right or wrong, but we and so there
• 9:32
  Speaker 4: is there's public articles about the rule of X and
• 9:34
  Speaker 4: how for every dollar, if you can drive better growth,
• 9:37
  Speaker 4: you will be rewarded. And why do we care about it?
• 9:41
  Speaker 4: I guess this is the other essence to your question,
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  Speaker 4: because it tells us that therefore we are investing the
• 9:45
  Speaker 4: right amount or an appropriate amount to go after the
• 9:49
  Speaker 4: opportunity that we've had, and it helps keep you in.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: Check and balance.
• 9:52
  Speaker 5: Is there a specific opportunity or a very bold idea
• 9:55
  Speaker 5: that you're thinking about for Zero in the next few years.
• 9:59
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I think what we see from our
• 10:00
  Speaker 4: small business owners, the accounts and bookkeepers that we work
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: with and partner with.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: Time is the thing.
• 10:06
  Speaker 4: But there is only so much time you've got to
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: run your business, both running it, growing it, thinking about it,
• 10:11
  Speaker 4: raising money whatever it might be, or bootstrapping it if
• 10:13
  Speaker 4: that's what you do. So you know, obviously Zero's purpose
• 10:16
  Speaker 4: and mission is to give small businesses back that time
• 10:19
  Speaker 4: to do the thing that they love doing most. You know,
• 10:22
  Speaker 4: we say, is to make lives better for small businesses,
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: their advisors and the community they operate in. And it's
• 10:29
  Speaker 4: such a great north star because it's kind of never ending.
• 10:33
  Speaker 4: And so when you say, is there a big idea
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: we're working on now, it's like the next iteration. So
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: obviously cloud moving a lot of things to the cloud
• 10:40
  Speaker 4: gave a lot of opportunity. And now I think as
• 10:44
  Speaker 4: surprised AI comes in, we.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: Wait for that word to be dropped.
• 10:48
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, we're on that next curve where we
• 10:52
  Speaker 4: can take advantage of it. But what I love and
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: the reason you know, we think about this is I
• 10:57
  Speaker 4: hear stories we have we having an advisory group and
• 10:59
  Speaker 4: there's actually a member of that advisor group called Kellie
• 11:01
  Speaker 4: Garrett who used to work at Deloitte. We never quite
• 11:05
  Speaker 4: cross paths, but we're there at a similar time. And
• 11:06
  Speaker 4: when you hear her, and she's one example of many
• 11:09
  Speaker 4: stories of people that used to work at larger firms.
• 11:12
  Speaker 4: And my brother's one of them who's also a man
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: who could take software like zero and say, hey, I
• 11:16
  Speaker 4: can start my own business at a fraction of the cost. Now,
• 11:20
  Speaker 4: so that initial capital investment I need for tax software,
• 11:23
  Speaker 4: practice software I can pay.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: By the month.
• 11:26
  Speaker 4: My small business customer might pay and invite me in.
• 11:28
  Speaker 4: And so what that really, you know, the great thing
• 11:31
  Speaker 4: is that unlocked a lot more entrepreneurship for small business owners.
• 11:35
  Speaker 4: We're also accountants and bookkeepers who could be small business
• 11:38
  Speaker 4: owners to take control of their life, spend time with
• 11:41
  Speaker 4: their family, you know, run the practice how they want
• 11:44
  Speaker 4: to run it, when the clients they want to win.
• 11:46
  Speaker 4: And so when you hear those stories, it's phenomenal and
• 11:48
  Speaker 4: a lot of it it's because they get that time back.
• 11:51
  Speaker 4: And so you know, the next idea to your question
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: is like, how is ai going to help create that
• 11:57
  Speaker 4: digital workforce for them, And I say for them, because
• 12:02
  Speaker 4: of course there's all the concern.
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: About like will it replace people?
• 12:04
  Speaker 4: But I mean if you look at the accounting and
• 12:06
  Speaker 4: bookkeeping in history as a starting point, they can't get
• 12:09
  Speaker 4: enough people in the door. So you know, we really
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: think about, like what is the agent we could give
• 12:14
  Speaker 4: them that essentially helps them do the job for the
• 12:16
  Speaker 4: person they needed to normally have hired, but they can't
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: hire because it's harder to get people in that industry today.
• 12:23
  Speaker 5: And now we would love to move to our flux
• 12:26
  Speaker 5: Five questions. These are questions that we ask all the
• 12:29
  Speaker 5: business leaders that we get to speak to on the podcast.
• 12:32
  Speaker 5: First question is, if you weren't leading zero, what's a
• 12:35
  Speaker 5: job that you would secretly or not so secretly love
• 12:38
  Speaker 5: to try.
• 12:39
  Speaker 4: You know, I be a part of a band when
• 12:42
  Speaker 4: I was younger. If be a successful musician, I love music.
• 12:45
  Speaker 4: If that was something I would make a career out of,
• 12:48
  Speaker 4: I'll probably.
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: Nice.
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: And I get is there a leader that's inspired you
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: the most? It can be either inside or outside of business,
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: with someone who's really left a mark on your personal
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: or professional career. Yeah, I think this question us often
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: there's not one. I think I've always tried to look
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: at what are the attributes? And I would say actually
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: equally from people that sometimes people don't look up to,
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: because actually, I truly do believe this, they often have
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: great strengths that people may be looking past, and so
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: I really try and look for like, what is this person.
• 13:18
  Speaker 4: Really good at? Could I be better at it? And
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: does it help me? It goes back to this very
• 13:23
  Speaker 4: personal thing. Does it help me do the thing I
• 13:25
  Speaker 4: want to do? And I want to be great at
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: something just because it's a nice tickbox. And hey, that
• 13:29
  Speaker 4: leader is really good at public speaking for example. That's
• 13:32
  Speaker 4: not a means to an end. So no specific leader,
• 13:34
  Speaker 4: but I always try and look for specific traits from
• 13:36
  Speaker 4: multiple leaders.
• 13:37
  Speaker 5: Is there a failure or a setback that you can
• 13:40
  Speaker 5: now look back on as a turning point in your career.
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  Speaker 4: I would say that the desire to try and do
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: a lot yourself and not ask for help because you're
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: so proud or you want to show that you can
• 13:50
  Speaker 4: do it all. And I've got a good wake up
• 13:53
  Speaker 4: call and I've got a performance review that where I
• 13:55
  Speaker 4: thought like, hey, I've worked really hard and I've got
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: a bit of an average review because the insight from
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: that leader was You're not going to scale if you
• 14:03
  Speaker 4: and that's stuck with me and I still have to
• 14:07
  Speaker 4: try and work on that to this day.
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: I get We speak to a lot of business leaders
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: who have a whole range of different daily habits or rituals.
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: Are there any habits or rituals that you like to
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: do each day that set you up for a strong day.
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: I probably am. Every mindfulness coach is worse than men,
• 14:24
  Speaker 4: and I like to do this. So just to be clear,
• 14:26
  Speaker 4: this is a bad habit. I do wake up and
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: I look at my phone straight away, and I'll tell
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: you why. For me, especially we work in a global
• 14:34
  Speaker 4: context and environment, it allows me to very quickly understand
• 14:37
  Speaker 4: and triarche something happened overnight. I'm going to have to
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: change what I need to do today or this week
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: as a result of it. And by doing that really quickly,
• 14:44
  Speaker 4: and I'm just lucky it doesn't stress me out seeing that,
• 14:48
  Speaker 4: and so I use that as a method to go
• 14:50
  Speaker 4: out great, Today's going to look exactly like I did today,
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: Or I need to get ahead of a couple of things.
• 14:54
  Speaker 4: I can now start moving them around.
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: So for me.
• 14:57
  Speaker 4: Actually, it really helps me mentally set up success.
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: Nice.
• 15:01
  Speaker 5: One last question from us, what is the best investment
• 15:04
  Speaker 5: you've ever made? Now, it can be money, but also
• 15:06
  Speaker 5: it could be your precious time or your precious energy.
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: Best investment I have ever made is who I don't
• 15:13
  Speaker 4: end up marrying, and it wasn't intentional. We met each
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: other one with sixteen, so there's no light. Again, there's
• 15:20
  Speaker 4: no master plan, but I would say finding a partner
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: that pushes me, balances the things that I don't do
• 15:28
  Speaker 4: particularly well and actually pushes how we think about how
• 15:32
  Speaker 4: we invest for the future. I'm a person that generally
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: I can be happy with very little and so, but
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: just you know, someone to help push you push me
• 15:41
  Speaker 4: in my thinking.
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: It's probably my first investment. Awesome and good.
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: Thanks so much for joining us on what the Flexing Conversation.
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: Loved hearing about your journey so far and also some
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: of the exciting things to come for your career, but
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: also for zero as well. So maybe we'll have to
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: check back in five years and see if your crystal
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: ball was accurate.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: Love to be that. Thank you by