Latest / Elevate Podcast: Powered by Braden / Elevate Podcast Ep 16 - The Entrepreneur’s Journey - Anderson Schoenrock, CEO of Memory Ventures

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Elevate Podcast Ep 16 - The Entrepreneur’s Journey - Anderson Schoenrock, CEO of Memory Ventures · Elevate Podcast: Powered by Braden

• 0:10
  Welcome to the Elevate podcast powered
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  by Braden. This is your front row seat
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  to the stories of local leaders, both
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  nonprofit and for-profit, who are
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  shaping our community. Every episode
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  brings you leadership insights, lessons
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  from challenges, and practical
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  strategies you can use today. And yes,
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  we'll keep it real and have some fun
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  along the way. If you're ready to
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  elevate your leadership, hit subscribe
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  and follow us on LinkedIn for updates
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  and behind the scenes content. Now,
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  let's dive in. Hey everybody, Jason here
• 0:43
  with another episode of the Elevate
• 0:46
  Powered by Braden podcast. And I tell
• 0:48
  you, these things are an awful lot of
• 0:49
  fun. We get a chance to talk to business
• 0:52
  leaders from around the city that have
• 0:54
  all different types of of backgrounds,
• 0:56
  come from different places around the
• 0:58
  United States. And this has been a
• 1:00
  really cool opportunity to learn more
• 1:02
  about what they're doing and how they're
• 1:03
  moving their businesses forward, but
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  also learn a lot about them as a person
• 1:08
  and their story. And so today, I've got
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  my friend Anderson with me. And
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  Anderson, maybe just a quick intro for
• 1:14
  yourself.
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  >> Yeah, thanks for having me. Uh Anderson
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  Shonrock. I'm the CEO of Memory Ventures
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  based here in Fischers, Indiana. And uh
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  I'm also excited to be on the show. You
• 1:23
  know, we spent a little bit of time a
• 1:25
  few weeks back uh over lunch and one of
• 1:28
  the things we talked about was a part of
• 1:30
  your story when you're actually in New
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  York City around 911. And so I know that
• 1:34
  that'll be part of your journey when we
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  have that conversation. It's very
• 1:38
  interesting to to see how you were tied
• 1:40
  to some of those things there during
• 1:42
  that time. And so, but let's start back
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  at the beginning. Where you from
• 1:45
  originally? Uh born and raised in
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  Junction City, Kansas.
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  >> Junction City, Kansas. So, where in the
• 1:50
  world is Junction City? Jung City is
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  about 2 hours west of Kansas City right
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  on I70. Okay. All right. If you've ever
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  driven through Kansas, there's a pretty
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  high likelihood that you went right
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  through my hometown.
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  >> All right. Gotcha. So, how does a a Jung
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  City boy in Kansas where, you know, high
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  school obviously out there in Kansas,
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  what are you doing in the high school
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  time and then moving from there into the
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  university years? What's that look like
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  for you?
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  >> Yeah. So, yeah, born and raised in
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  Junction City. um uh grew up there.
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  Literally came home from the hospital to
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  the same house that I lived in all 18
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  years that I was there.
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  >> Okay.
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  >> And um yeah, so went to high school
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  there during high school. Kind of a
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  typical high school experience. Um I was
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  pretty academically focused. Uh played
• 2:39
  tennis in high school. Played a little
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  ba a little bit of basketball my
• 2:42
  freshman year. Um, but just had a really
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  good kind of, you know, typical
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  >> Gotcha.
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  >> Midwestern.
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  Yeah. Right. All right. So, academically
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  focused. Yeah. So, when you're making
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  the decision to leave high school and go
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  off to college, where are you going to
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  go and and where were you going to stub
• 3:01
  you?
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  >> So, one of the things that my parents uh
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  started their own business when I was
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  really young, I watched them grow it.
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  And one of the things that they always
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  kind of instilled in my brother and I
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  was, hey, we've worked really hard to
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  give you opportunities that we didn't
• 3:17
  have. And so when it came to colleagues,
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  they said, hey, we think academically
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  you can go to a lot of different schools
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  and uh we have means now to help you uh
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  facilitate that. So they said, "Let's go
• 3:33
  tour some schools." And you kind of pick
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  a list. So, we went and did flew to
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  Chicago and did kind of a whole uh
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  university tour around the Chicago area
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  and then flew to the east coast and kind
• 3:45
  of meandered our way up the east coast
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  and ultimately our last stop um was
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  Dartmouth College, okay, New Hampshire
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  and just something about being on that
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  campus in that tour, it just absolutely
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  clicked that that was where I wanted to
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  go. Um, so I remember sitting in the
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  dining hall uh after our tour having
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  some lunch with my parents. I basically
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  said, "All right, if I can get in here,
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  this is where I want to go." Okay. So,
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  spent my um that was probably the
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  summer,
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  maybe before my junior year. I can't
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  remember exactly which summer it was,
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  but basically, you know, kind of worked
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  to get myself in a position that I could
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  put in an application to a school like
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  Dartmouth where I had a shot at getting
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  in. Okay. And applied to a handful of
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  other schools as the well, but my plan
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  was always to try and go to kind of a
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  top tier school. Sure. So, applied early
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  to Dartmouth,
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  didn't get in. I got deferred. Okay. and
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  um and then ended up getting in sort of
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  at the last minute off the deferred
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  lists. Okay. Kind of got in by a skin in
• 4:55
  my teeth. Yeah.
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  >> Which has been a little bit of the theme
• 4:57
  in my life as I kind of like
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  >> uh you know a little bit of little bit
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  of luck and a little bit of will to kind
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  of make some things happen. But got into
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  Dartmouth and so spent my college years
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  in New Hampshire which was a pretty cool
• 5:10
  place to go school.
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  >> Gotcha. So from Kansas to New Hampshire
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  and two quick questions before we go on
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  to what you were studying there. So your
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  parents were entrepreneurs started what
• 5:20
  was the family business?
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  >> Uh they then they're still in it. Um
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  they have a commercial real estate
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  business. It started as a kind of
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  residential brokerage business then over
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  the years evolved into more development.
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  um they you know owned rent residential
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  rental properties and then that
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  naturally evolved into um a more
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  commercial property. Sure. My brother
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  since moved back to say the family
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  business so they're still running and
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  operating it. uh most of what they do is
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  uh uh build to suit deals for the state
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  of Kansas where okay in a community if
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  they need an office or uh some sort of
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  state organization uh they'll build it
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  and and uh so that's been a great
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  business.
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  >> Okay. All right. So family business real
• 6:04
  estate but growing up that's what you
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  saw was your your family being
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  entrepreneurs. Yeah.
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  >> So going to Dartmouth starting there
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  what were you going to study? So, I
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  originally thought that I might want to
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  either be a lawyer or go into politics.
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  Um, but I'd also had some inclination
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  that I want to go into business. So, I
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  wasn't exactly sure what to study.
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  Dartmouth is a liberal arts school. So,
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  when I got there, um, I initially was
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  going to major in economics and I did
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  like two economics classes and I was
• 6:38
  like, "Oh man, like I'm not going to be
• 6:39
  able to do nothing for four years. This
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  is like no not this isn't business. this
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  is like theoretical macroeconomic type
• 6:46
  type stuff and uh I just wasn't into it.
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  So got some advice um uh from some older
• 6:53
  students there that basically said like
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  you know the most important thing is
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  that you end up getting through here
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  with reasonably good grades.
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  >> Just go study something that you are
• 7:03
  interested in you're going to enjoy and
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  that you'll naturally end up doing
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  better. Uh uh so I ended up getting a
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  history uh degree in history. So I was a
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  history major. No kidding. Right. So but
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  that's if you think about that you were
• 7:16
  thinking law or you know maybe going
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  into the you know government work those
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  types of things and then economics and
• 7:23
  then history. So history was just always
• 7:25
  something as a theme that you enjoyed.
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  >> Yeah. I just it was always even in high
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  school it was always stuff that I kind
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  of thought was interesting and enjoyed
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  reading about kind of understanding how
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  things like evolved. I think that you
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  know history has a tendency to repeat
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  itself. So we learn about what's
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  happened in the past that helps us sure
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  of uh you know navigate the future. So I
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  I thought it was a a great interesting
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  >> Yeah. And what a what a great
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  suggestion. I like the idea that the
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  person you spoke with there at the
• 7:54
  university says hey if you find
• 7:55
  something the most important thing is to
• 7:57
  get through here with good grades,
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  right? So come out with good grades and
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  get your diploma. So as you go through
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  those four years what were you thinking
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  your career might look like? What were
• 8:07
  you planning to do once you got out with
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  a history degree?
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  >> Well, I I really initially thought um
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  that I might do something kind of law or
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  politics. The summer after my so during
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  my freshman year, I thought, okay, uh
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  I'm going to go home for the summer. I
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  need to figure out what I'm going to do.
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  And uh so I knew I'd be doing some work
• 8:30
  for the family business cuz that was
• 8:31
  always a requirement. my parents
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  basically say, "Hey, we're gonna uh
• 8:36
  cover the cost of your school, but
• 8:37
  you're basically working for us for
• 8:39
  free." So, every summer through high
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  school and then uh when I came home for
• 8:43
  sure, my freshman year, my dad was
• 8:46
  putting me on all the hardest projects
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  that like I was just part of the
• 8:51
  construction crew working whatever we
• 8:53
  needed to do. Um, but uh in addition to
• 8:56
  that, I thought, okay, I should probably
• 8:58
  try and get some sort of internship or
• 9:00
  something that would build a resume. Uh,
• 9:02
  so I wasn't really sure what to do, but
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  I just started thinking about what what
• 9:06
  might come together.
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  >> Mhm.
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  >> And so I randomly picked up the phone,
• 9:10
  called from New Hampshire, to the um
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  office of Sam Brownback, who was the US
• 9:17
  senator from Kansas at the time, and
• 9:19
  said, "Hey, I'm a, you know, kid from
• 9:21
  Kansas. I'm the dogmat. I'd love to come
• 9:24
  do an internship for you this summer.
• 9:25
  What do you got? Do you guys have
• 9:27
  anything? And I said, well, we don't
• 9:28
  really have an internship program. They
• 9:30
  said, I'll come work for free. I'll do
• 9:32
  whatever. No kidding.
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  >> And so after a series of phone calls,
• 9:36
  um, they said, okay, great. Like, sure.
• 9:38
  We'll have you come to the office. So, I
• 9:40
  would go that summer. I went two days a
• 9:42
  week in and worked in Sam Braback's
• 9:44
  office. And, uh, it was it was a good
• 9:47
  experience. I really enjoyed the people
• 9:49
  that I worked with there. But through
• 9:50
  that process, I kind of got an inside
• 9:52
  look into what it might look like if I
• 9:54
  went into politics or government. Yeah.
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  >> I was like, "Yeah, this just isn't for
• 9:58
  me. It's not going to work out." Uh,
• 10:00
  which I think is sometimes uh sometimes
• 10:02
  learning at that age like what you don't
• 10:04
  want to do should just as valuable as
• 10:06
  figuring out what you do want to do.
• 10:07
  >> Of course, why you know that this
• 10:08
  something you were interested in, you
• 10:09
  had an opportunity to do it is the right
• 10:11
  point time in your career.
• 10:13
  >> But but to pick up the phone and cold
• 10:15
  call, was that just you? Was that did
• 10:17
  you just think, hey, I'm going to just
• 10:19
  try this and call?
• 10:20
  >> I just figured that I needed to do
• 10:22
  something that's so I just said, hey,
• 10:25
  you know, I'll just make some calls.
• 10:27
  >> Yeah.
• 10:28
  >> And uh I was a little bit probably them
• 10:31
  a little bit. Yeah. And was maybe a
• 10:33
  little bit persistent, but good for you.
• 10:36
  What a what a great opportunity. Okay,
• 10:37
  so you you work there, you realize that
• 10:40
  that's not going to be where you want to
• 10:42
  invest some time.
• 10:43
  >> Yeah.
• 10:43
  >> So where do you go next? So go back to
• 10:46
  Dartmouth, kind of trying to figure out
• 10:47
  what I want to do and um the ultimately
• 10:52
  I ended up getting another internship um
• 10:55
  my junior year at Lehman Brothers
• 10:57
  working on Wall Street. The the
• 10:59
  background on that I guess I would
• 11:01
  actually maybe go all the way back to
• 11:03
  Kansas. So when I was a kid um in my
• 11:08
  hometown we only had three TV channels.
• 11:11
  Okay. And then in I don't know 1987 1988
• 11:16
  we got cable came to my home.
• 11:18
  >> Yeah. Sure. Yeah. And so one of the
• 11:20
  channels that came when we got cable was
• 11:23
  CNBC.
• 11:25
  >> And so uh I don't know how this all came
• 11:28
  about but at some point we had an old
• 11:30
  black and white TV and I convinced my
• 11:32
  parents to let me put it in my room and
• 11:35
  uh we hooked up the cable box and hooked
• 11:37
  up this black and white TV. And so I
• 11:39
  would watch these random channels that
• 11:41
  were like it was mind-blowing to me that
• 11:43
  we went from three channels to 37 of
• 11:45
  Amazing. Yeah, I remember those days.
• 11:47
  Oh, and you know, it was like literally
• 11:49
  was a box with buttons on the that sat
• 11:51
  on the top of the TV. There wasn't even
• 11:53
  a remote either. Oh yeah. So, um, but
• 11:55
  CNBC was one of the channels. Okay. And
• 11:58
  so I would after school I would turn on
• 12:01
  the TV and I would watch CNBC and I was
• 12:04
  kind of just it gave me this glimpse
• 12:06
  into a world that I didn't know really
• 12:09
  existed. So no kidding that that's cool.
• 12:12
  All right. And so um you know I was kind
• 12:15
  of a unique kid I guess. Uh we were my
• 12:18
  brother and I were always kind of doing
• 12:19
  you know what stuff that we thought was
• 12:21
  fun but is maybe a little bit abnormal
• 12:22
  for kids. So on CNBC there were these
• 12:26
  ads for this paper called Investor's
• 12:28
  Business Daily and they had a free
• 12:30
  trial. So without my parents knowing I
• 12:33
  ordered a free trial of Investor's
• 12:35
  Business Daily and this newspaper would
• 12:37
  get mailed to our house in Kansas and I
• 12:40
  would read it and so that was my first
• 12:42
  exposure to like the New York finance
• 12:45
  war.
• 12:46
  >> No kidding.
• 12:46
  >> Yeah. As a kid in how old is at that
• 12:48
  time? I was so I was born in 1979. I
• 12:51
  must have been 9 or 10 years old. No
• 12:53
  kidding. Okay. So, very interested in
• 12:55
  the young. Yeah. Okay. So, I was kind of
• 12:57
  drawn in to what was happening with the
• 12:59
  stock market and I was definitely that
• 13:03
  whole experience of being able to watch
• 13:06
  TV and having all these channels like it
• 13:08
  just gave me a glimpse into a whole
• 13:10
  world I didn't have any perspective on.
• 13:12
  Um, so then uh my brother and I decided
• 13:17
  like this is pretty cool. Like you can
• 13:19
  buy stocks and companies or whatever. So
• 13:22
  we went to my uh dad and he said, "Hey,
• 13:25
  like you know, get do you buy any stocks
• 13:28
  and how do you do that or whatever?" He
• 13:30
  said, "Oh, like yeah, actually um you
• 13:33
  know, here's a here's a a half sheep
• 13:35
  fax. My stock broker every day faxes me
• 13:39
  like where our our stocks are." So, we
• 13:42
  kind of got to learn what I know was
• 13:44
  going on. And so, then my brother and I
• 13:46
  said, "Um,
• 13:48
  dad, like we want to we want to buy some
• 13:51
  stocks. How do we do that?" So, he I
• 13:53
  mean, that was one thing I would say
• 13:54
  about my parents that they were always
• 13:56
  very
• 13:57
  >> like open to doing these things. So, he
• 14:00
  said, "Hey, I'll take you and you can
• 14:01
  meet my broker and you can talk to him
• 14:03
  about how you do this." So my brother
• 14:05
  and I went in and uh we talked to the
• 14:09
  broker and the broker's like, "Well,
• 14:10
  yeah, you have Picklitch Docs. You won.
• 14:12
  How do you So" So we kind of went
• 14:13
  through that. My brother and I went back
• 14:14
  home and we we decided we were really
• 14:17
  into comic books at the time as well. So
• 14:19
  we said, "Okay, we want to buy how do we
• 14:22
  buy stock and comic books?" And turns
• 14:23
  out Marvel was publicly traded. There
• 14:25
  you go. So we bought um you know, I know
• 14:29
  we could call together a thousand bucks
• 14:30
  or something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. you
• 14:32
  know, it was like a lawnmowering money
• 14:33
  or whatever. Sure. So, my brother and I
• 14:35
  called together some money, put into
• 14:37
  Marvel, and lo and behold, in the next
• 14:38
  like 12 to 18 months, Marvel like
• 14:41
  doubled in value, and we were like, this
• 14:44
  is this many guys were like, this is I'm
• 14:46
  in. I got we're kidding. So, that was a
• 14:49
  pretty fun experience. Then reality set
• 14:52
  in when we decided, okay, we're no
• 14:53
  longer into comic books. We kind of
• 14:56
  moved on to video games. I can't
• 14:58
  remember exactly all the circumstances,
• 15:00
  but for whatever reason, like we
• 15:01
  couldn't buy stock in Nintendo. I don't
• 15:03
  know if it was something with the
• 15:05
  Japanese markets or they weren't public.
• 15:06
  I don't sure, but the broker was like,
• 15:08
  "Well, there's this new um there's this
• 15:11
  new company coming out with a new system
• 15:13
  called 3O.
• 15:15
  >> Um, you guys can get in early." So, he
• 15:17
  said, "Okay, we'll sell our uh sell our
• 15:20
  Marvel stock and we'll buy 3Dio." Well,
• 15:23
  3DO after we bought Bold one, we we
• 15:26
  learned the hard way that once you sell
• 15:28
  something, you got to pay capital gains
• 15:29
  tax. So, so we had to learn by tax, you
• 15:32
  know, and then um we invested in 3DO and
• 15:35
  obviously no one's heard of the 3DO
• 15:37
  system. So, they went nowhere. So, we
• 15:39
  promptly lost a bunch of money. So, we
• 15:42
  yeah,
• 15:42
  >> we we got some exposure to the upside
• 15:45
  and the downside of the of the public
• 15:47
  markets that way. But from that point, I
• 15:49
  was always just kind of fascinated by
• 15:51
  sure what was happening with this dog
• 15:52
  murdered. So anyway, fast forward back
• 15:55
  to co I'm in college trying to figure
• 15:58
  out I had this internship with Sam
• 16:00
  Brownback realized didn't want to go
• 16:01
  into politics and my dad is driving me
• 16:04
  back to the airport to fly back to to
• 16:07
  school and I'm like, "Yeah, I don't
• 16:09
  know." And I need to figure out what I
• 16:10
  want to do next. I probably need to get
• 16:11
  another internship or summer job or
• 16:13
  something like that. And he was like,
• 16:15
  "What about working on Wall Street? He
• 16:18
  said, "You've always been interested in
• 16:19
  stock vest." I'm like, "It's an
• 16:20
  interesting idea." So, I went back to
• 16:22
  Dartmouth and um Dartmouth has this
• 16:25
  really unique schedule where um you have
• 16:28
  to it's quarters instead of semesters
• 16:31
  and you have to stay on campus your
• 16:33
  summer uh of your sophomore year, which
• 16:36
  means then your junior year you end up
• 16:38
  with a quarter that you can take off
• 16:40
  that's not the traditional summer months
• 16:43
  where most kids are out of school. So
• 16:45
  there there were a handful of consulting
• 16:48
  firms and investment banks that created
• 16:51
  winter internship programs the same for
• 16:53
  Dartmouth. Yeah. Sure. And so they would
• 16:55
  come to campus and recruit and um so
• 16:59
  it's like this is great. I'll throw my
• 17:01
  name in the hat. So I applied with all
• 17:03
  the different banks in uh in New York
• 17:07
  and basically uh pretty much didn't get
• 17:10
  any traction.
• 17:12
  So I kept there was a career services
• 17:15
  office and I go to career services
• 17:16
  office and they said hey you know if
• 17:19
  they open up more interviews we can try
• 17:20
  and get you in or whatever. So Leman
• 17:22
  Brothers came to campus and randomly
• 17:26
  blasted out to a list of students was an
• 17:29
  email that said um Lena has come to
• 17:32
  campus. They've opened up another seven
• 17:35
  or eight interview spots at the last
• 17:37
  minute. They aren't going to have a
• 17:39
  chance to like screen the resumes. So,
• 17:41
  we're just going to fill them. First
• 17:43
  come, first serve. Oh, wow. So, I
• 17:46
  sprinted over to the career services
• 17:47
  office. He said, "Sure, I want an
• 17:49
  interview." And so, luckily, I was one
• 17:51
  of the kids that got there before the
• 17:52
  list got filled up. So, that's how I got
• 17:53
  in the interview. So, it was just kind
• 17:55
  of like, well, let's get in by the last
• 17:57
  Yeah. Okay. All right. So, got an
• 17:59
  interview with Leven and uh really
• 18:03
  enjoyed the guy who interviewed me was
• 18:05
  at Dartmouth alone. Got to understand
• 18:08
  what he was doing. really hit it off and
• 18:10
  ended up getting a winter internship. So
• 18:12
  my junior year I moved to New York City
• 18:15
  for 3 months.
• 18:16
  >> Okay. And worked at Lehman as an intern.
• 18:19
  >> Gotcha.
• 18:20
  >> Uh so no kidding.
• 18:22
  >> Yeah. So you're in New York City now. So
• 18:24
  that's your junior year. Yeah. Right.
• 18:26
  Three months and then go back to
• 18:27
  Dartmouth for your senior year. Yeah.
• 18:29
  Right. So after and then are was there
• 18:31
  an internship also your senior year or
• 18:33
  what happens after you?
• 18:34
  >> Yeah. start over with. So this was what
• 18:36
  again like sometimes I think it there's
• 18:40
  some luck involved by getting the winter
• 18:42
  internship. It got us pri the the group
• 18:45
  of us that had winter internships got
• 18:48
  prioritized for the application for the
• 18:50
  summer internship program.
• 18:52
  >> Gotcha. So we kind of got shoehorned
• 18:55
  into the summer internship arm and
• 18:57
  didn't have to compete against all the
• 18:58
  other kids from all the other schools
• 19:00
  are. Most of the kids that got summer
• 19:02
  internships had were, you know, it was
• 19:04
  all the top 25 schools competing.
• 19:06
  >> Yeah.
• 19:07
  >> So, my winter internship basically led
• 19:09
  to the summer internship. Gotcha.
• 19:11
  >> Which was also really cool cuz I got to
• 19:12
  work in in two different groups at
• 19:14
  Leman. So, I did a winter internship in
• 19:16
  the leverage finance group and Okay. The
• 19:18
  summer internship in their merchant
• 19:19
  banking group. Yep.
• 19:21
  >> Um and then that summer internship after
• 19:23
  basically having six months of
• 19:25
  experience there, that led to a
• 19:26
  full-time offer. So, at the end of the
• 19:28
  summer, I actually went into my senior
• 19:31
  year knowing that I had a full-time job
• 19:33
  offer and I think I accepted in in
• 19:35
  September or October.
• 19:36
  >> What a good job position. That's
• 19:37
  worship. It was awesome. So, after those
• 19:39
  couple of internships, obviously accept
• 19:41
  the offer. Are you thinking this is your
• 19:43
  career? You're going to be on Wall
• 19:44
  Street and that's what I mean at that
• 19:46
  time that was my intention. I thought,
• 19:48
  hey, I'm going to go to New York. I'm
• 19:49
  going to do the 2-year investment
• 19:51
  banking analyst grind. I'll figure out
• 19:53
  what I want to do from there. But I
• 19:55
  figured I would be going, you know, kind
• 19:58
  of investment banking, finance, got a
• 20:00
  warehouse.
• 20:01
  >> Okay. So now you're in New York City.
• 20:03
  Um, so you're now you're on the East
• 20:05
  Coast, still on the East Coast, New York
• 20:07
  City, working at Lehman. How long are
• 20:09
  you there? What's the role? What are you
• 20:11
  doing?
• 20:11
  >> Yeah. So, uh, Lehman, because they hire
• 20:15
  from schools like Darmman that are
• 20:16
  looking more liberal arts. Um, you had a
• 20:19
  lot of kids that didn't have any formal
• 20:22
  accounting training. So I arrived I
• 20:24
  graduated college in 2001. One of the
• 20:26
  great things about having that job by
• 20:28
  the way in senior year is uh March of my
• 20:30
  senior year was the dotcom bubble burst.
• 20:33
  >> Oh wow.
• 20:34
  >> And so I had a lot of friends who uh
• 20:36
  were looking for jobs right on the heels
• 20:39
  of that and that was a really stressful
• 20:41
  way to end their college.
• 20:42
  >> Sure. up. So for me it was great like I
• 20:44
  just I already had ya then. Um but
• 20:47
  anyway uh so moved to New York City July
• 20:50
  of 2001
• 20:52
  um because a lot of the kids came out of
• 20:54
  programs where they didn't have
• 20:55
  traditional accounting uh training.
• 20:58
  Lehman brings in or yeah Leeman brought
• 21:01
  in a professor and basically we did a
• 21:04
  six-week crash course where every day we
• 21:06
  showed up to work all we were doing was
• 21:08
  learning accounting.
• 21:09
  >> No kidding. And so and then at the end
• 21:12
  of that there was a test and if you
• 21:15
  passed the test you kept your job. If
• 21:16
  you failed the test fire so it was
• 21:19
  pretty pretty serious. Um so spent you
• 21:23
  know all of July and part of August uh
• 21:26
  going through that luckily passed the
• 21:28
  test in August and also along the way uh
• 21:32
  they are um introducing all of the
• 21:35
  analysts to all the different groups at
• 21:37
  Leman and they had a matching process
• 21:39
  really cool. They had a matching process
• 21:41
  where basically you could rank the
• 21:42
  groups and the groups can rank you and
• 21:44
  then where there was overlap that would
• 21:46
  help you get your nine. Uh I really
• 21:50
  having come from a family business in
• 21:51
  real estate, I'd met the real estate
• 21:54
  group at Lehman really hit it off with
• 21:56
  some people there and so real estate was
• 21:58
  my top choice group and that was where I
• 22:00
  ended up getting placed. Okay, that's
• 22:02
  pretty cool. So I went into their global
• 22:04
  real estate group where we basically
• 22:06
  were working with publicly traded uh
• 22:09
  real estate companies and then Lehman
• 22:12
  was it was pretty cool. Leman also had a
• 22:14
  private equity fund. So as an analyst we
• 22:16
  got to work not only on public market
• 22:18
  stuff but we also got to work on private
• 22:21
  investments. So we were actually working
• 22:23
  on projects where Lehman was going to be
• 22:25
  the equity partner um all over the
• 22:28
  country. So it was
• 22:29
  >> yeah pretty awesome experience. Um,
• 22:32
  >> what a great role. Yeah. And that that's
• 22:34
  interesting you're mentioning. So this
• 22:36
  is Augustish of 2001.
• 22:38
  >> Yeah.
• 22:39
  >> And so how long are you with Lehman
• 22:42
  obviously, you know, through 2001 kind
• 22:44
  of how does that, you know, how do you
• 22:46
  finish up there before you move on to
• 22:48
  the next place? What does that look
• 22:49
  like?
• 22:49
  >> Yeah. Well, so the the um kind of crazy
• 22:52
  part of the leaving experience was that
• 22:55
  I started in July 2001 and then 911
• 22:57
  happened. Yeah. In September. And so I
• 23:00
  was less than a month into uh the job
• 23:03
  with the real estate. I went through the
• 23:04
  six week gone through all the training,
• 23:06
  passed your test. Now you're kind of
• 23:08
  where you're supposed to be aligned in
• 23:09
  the real estate group.
• 23:10
  >> Yeah.
• 23:11
  >> So really into your real what a cool
• 23:12
  real role,
• 23:13
  >> right? Okay.
• 23:14
  >> U so I'm like three maybe three and a
• 23:16
  half weeks into that role at Lehman. We
• 23:20
  uh Lehman was headquartered in three
• 23:21
  world financial center which is directly
• 23:23
  across the street from the World Trade
• 23:24
  Center. So my commute every day from my
• 23:27
  apartment was to take the AC blue subway
• 23:30
  line into the World Trade Center, come
• 23:33
  up the escalators, there was a sky
• 23:34
  bridge across the World Financial Center
• 23:36
  and went up to the 26th floor where I
• 23:38
  worked. So that was my that was my daily
• 23:40
  commute. Um and you know up until
• 23:44
  September 11th happened, like I was just
• 23:47
  loving life.
• 23:48
  >> Yeah, sure. New York City, this is
• 23:50
  great. Younger kid having fun.
• 23:52
  >> Yeah, it was just awesome. Um, so I went
• 23:56
  to work uh September 10th and worked all
• 24:00
  day. Um, I had just been three weeks
• 24:03
  into that group. I had just been placed
• 24:05
  on my first client account, which was
• 24:06
  Starwood Hotels. Okay.
• 24:08
  >> And the VP that I was reporting to, who
• 24:10
  was also on the Starwood account,
• 24:12
  basically tasked me with doing the first
• 24:14
  draft of a pitch book for a big bond
• 24:17
  offering that we were trying to get
• 24:19
  Starward to to select us as their um,
• 24:22
  underwriter.
• 24:23
  And um so I went to work worked all day
• 24:28
  worked in you know it doesn't bang is a
• 24:30
  grind you're working 70 80 all hour
• 24:34
  so I stayed till 10 10:30 at night
• 24:38
  working on this pitch book the first
• 24:40
  real piece of work that I had to do.
• 24:42
  Yeah I thought okay I'll get this pretty
• 24:46
  close to finished and the the VP had
• 24:48
  said I want the draft by 10:30 a.m. on
• 24:51
  September. Sure. I said, "Okay." Worked
• 24:53
  till 10 or 11. Got it to a place where I
• 24:56
  felt comfortable. I'd get it turned in
• 24:57
  on time. Went home. Went to bed. Set my
• 25:00
  alarm to be up so I get into work and
• 25:02
  finish the pitch book. And uh woke up to
• 25:06
  my cell phone ringing.
• 25:08
  >> And it was my mom asking where I was.
• 25:11
  And at that moment, I looked at the
• 25:14
  clock and realized that I had overslept.
• 25:15
  Yeah. Oh no. Right. And it was a Oh
• 25:18
  crap. Yeah, sure. Mom, sorry. I'm late
• 25:20
  for work. I got pitch book due today. I
• 25:23
  don't know what happened. I was supposed
• 25:25
  to be up an hour ago. I gotta go. Yeah.
• 25:28
  And she said, "Slow down. Do you know
• 25:30
  what's going on?" And I said, "No." And
• 25:33
  should turn on the TV. U So this was
• 25:36
  when the first plane had hit, but before
• 25:38
  the second plane had hit.
• 25:39
  >> Yeah. So this is chaos. Nobody thinks
• 25:42
  it's an accident and those types of
• 25:43
  things.
• 25:44
  >> Yeah. So that's the conversation we're
• 25:45
  having.
• 25:46
  My dad coincidentally uh just as a hobby
• 25:50
  has his private pilot's license. So our
• 25:52
  family knows a little bit about aviation
• 25:54
  through that. Sure. At looking at man
• 25:56
  it's it's a clear blue sky. Even if like
• 25:59
  even if you lose all engines like you
• 26:02
  would steer a plane clear of the
• 26:03
  building like yeah why did someone but
• 26:05
  you didn't you couldn't tell on TV the
• 26:07
  size of the hole. And so we just assumed
• 26:09
  it was a small plane that Albert
• 26:11
  accidentally fooled right. So my aunt
• 26:15
  said, "Well, glad glad we could reach
• 26:16
  you. U just keep us posted." Sure. Um so
• 26:21
  I said, "Okay, in my mind there's an
• 26:23
  accident there. I still got to get to
• 26:25
  work. You got you by 10:30. You need to
• 26:28
  deliver this bit."
• 26:28
  >> It's got and so I jumped in the shower.
• 26:31
  I'm getting dressed and uh my parents
• 26:35
  called and got through again and they
• 26:37
  said, "You know, we're watching this on
• 26:39
  TV and it really doesn't look safe down
• 26:43
  there. Um there's stuff flying out of
• 26:45
  the building and uh they're like, "Can
• 26:49
  you just hang tight to your apartment
• 26:51
  until they are able to get this fire out
• 26:53
  over here?" And I said, "Look, I got
• 26:56
  this pitch book due." Um but I think you
• 26:58
  know my parents always encouraged us to
• 27:01
  work really hard. Yeah. And so I don't I
• 27:04
  can't remember another time that they
• 27:05
  ever told me not to stay home right yet.
• 27:07
  So something in the back of my head just
• 27:10
  and you know seeing it on TV talking to
• 27:11
  them I thought well and you know it's
• 27:13
  it's weird how your mind works. I start
• 27:15
  going through
• 27:17
  um what the conversation's going to be
• 27:19
  when I don't turn you with fish on a
• 27:21
  time. Um something well like this does
• 27:24
  look pretty bad. I think you know I can
• 27:25
  make the case that like it wasn't safe.
• 27:27
  had come in. Um, and then and I sat
• 27:30
  there like a lot of people around the
• 27:32
  world and watched the second play did
• 27:34
  and then it was abundantly clear that
• 27:37
  this was not an accident. This was an
• 27:39
  intentional act.
• 27:40
  >> Yeah.
• 27:41
  >> And so that then set off a whole series
• 27:44
  of of uh you know different things for
• 27:48
  me. Um,
• 27:50
  shortly after that, my remake worked at
• 27:52
  Morgan Stanley, which was in Time
• 27:53
  Square, showed back up to the apartment,
• 27:56
  and he was he walked in with like bags
• 27:59
  of groceries. Yeah. He's like, "They're
• 28:01
  talking on the streets about how they're
• 28:03
  going to shut down the island because
• 28:04
  they don't know where this threat came
• 28:06
  from." Uh, and so he's like, "I went and
• 28:08
  bought a bunch of canvas and some
• 28:09
  bottles of water because who knows how
• 28:11
  long we're going to be right here?" Um,
• 28:14
  so that was kind of crazy. Um and then
• 28:18
  after sitting on our couch all day just
• 28:21
  watching the news coverage kind of you
• 28:23
  know I mean not kind of in shaw shocked.
• 28:25
  Yeah. Um we decided if you're like maybe
• 28:28
  let's venture out and see if we can like
• 28:29
  find somewhere to get dinner. And that
• 28:31
  was I think that for me is like one of
• 28:33
  the moments that's like seared into my
• 28:35
  head. We walked out of our apartment and
• 28:38
  it didn't matter when in New York City
• 28:40
  there's always cars and horns and noise
• 28:44
  and it was completely quiet. No kidding.
• 28:47
  We could walk right down the middle of
• 28:48
  7th Avenue where we lived and there was
• 28:51
  no traffic and we went up and we found
• 28:54
  somehow found a pizza shop that was open
• 28:57
  and got a couple slices of pizza. But
• 28:59
  that was when it really like Yeah. Like
• 29:02
  this is a city never sleeps. So he has
• 29:04
  about Yeah. to have that that'll always
• 29:06
  be there.
• 29:06
  >> Yeah. Right. 23 years later. Yeah. 20
• 29:10
  years later.
• 29:11
  >> Wow. So that was just a surreal
• 29:13
  experience. Um
• 29:16
  you know still kind of surreal to talk
• 29:18
  about it to think yeah sure I'm I'm not
• 29:20
  that person that oversleeps and that day
• 29:21
  right I slept. So that was yeah like
• 29:23
  like you said your parents would never
• 29:25
  be one to say don't go to work right.
• 29:27
  You learn from entrepreneurs what they
• 29:29
  were doing. You show up you worked hard
• 29:30
  in the family business right? It was
• 29:32
  that construction stuff. kill over
• 29:34
  sleep. Wow. So after that, you know,
• 29:38
  kind of happens. How long are you with
• 29:40
  Lehman before you move on to the next
• 29:42
  role?
• 29:43
  >> So I stayed with Lehman. Um I think the
• 29:47
  uh the kind of aftershock of 911. Uh it
• 29:53
  had a couple of ripple effects for me.
• 29:56
  One was um we went through eight months
• 30:00
  of we didn't have an office. Yeah.
• 30:03
  Right. So Lehman took over the Sheridan
• 30:05
  Manhattan Hotel and pulled all the beds
• 30:07
  out and turned it into a makeshift
• 30:08
  office while they could get a new
• 30:10
  permanent office established. Um, and
• 30:15
  through that process, I think it really
• 30:19
  at an age when most of most kids and and
• 30:23
  prior to this I was this way, you feel
• 30:25
  completely invincible.
• 30:26
  >> Mhm.
• 30:27
  >> It really um brought home that hey, like
• 30:30
  we just never know what's going to
• 30:31
  happen. tomorrow. Tomorrow, like you
• 30:33
  said, you were working hard on the 10th.
• 30:36
  >> Yeah.
• 30:36
  >> Till late. Need to be in by 10:30 the
• 30:38
  next morning. You have no idea what the
• 30:40
  next morning it's going to bring,
• 30:41
  >> right?
• 30:41
  >> The whole next morning, the whole world
• 30:43
  changed. So,
• 30:44
  >> uh, what that did for me, I think, is it
• 30:49
  caused me to really, um, look around
• 30:53
  with a little bit more discerning
• 30:55
  mindset because you're like, is this
• 30:57
  really what I want to do? what is this?
• 30:59
  What does this path look like? If I stay
• 31:01
  here, what happens? And um I kind of
• 31:05
  looked around and I realized like
• 31:08
  there are a lot of people here that are
• 31:10
  making a ton of money
• 31:12
  um and are very financially successful.
• 31:15
  >> Yep.
• 31:15
  >> But they sacrificed a lot of other areas
• 31:18
  of their life to get there. And is that
• 31:20
  really what I want to do? Is there maybe
• 31:22
  a better way to sure achieve what I want
• 31:25
  to do? And it just it became fairly
• 31:29
  clear probably within 9 to 12 months of
• 31:33
  of 911 that I didn't want to stay in New
• 31:37
  York on that path.
• 31:38
  >> Yeah. And I what I what I also realized
• 31:41
  is that the longer you stayed, the more
• 31:45
  difficult they made it to leave. Yeah.
• 31:47
  Because the way the financial is or the
• 31:49
  way everything works, right? The longer
• 31:51
  you stay, the more the handcuffs you put
• 31:52
  on. It's harder to leave. So, at this
• 31:55
  point, 12 months later, you've decided,
• 31:57
  you kind of looked and said, "I need to
• 31:59
  do something else." Yeah. Where does
• 32:00
  that take you?
• 32:01
  >> So, I said, "Okay, um I'm going to I I
• 32:04
  signed a two-year contract. I'm going to
• 32:05
  stay here through the the two years." Uh
• 32:09
  in that process, I kind of uh made a
• 32:13
  resolution with myself that I knew I
• 32:14
  eventually wanted to start my own
• 32:16
  business.
• 32:17
  >> Okay.
• 32:17
  >> And uh and kind of forge my own path.
• 32:20
  And I kind of made a pack with myself
• 32:22
  that I would find my way to doing that
• 32:24
  sooner than later. Um because I just
• 32:27
  realized, you know, I'd always thought
• 32:28
  like maybe I want to own my own
• 32:29
  business, but I kind of thought like,
• 32:30
  oh, I'll do 15 or 20 years of finance
• 32:33
  and then, you know, later do something
• 32:35
  more entrepreneurial. Sure.
• 32:36
  >> It that whole experience kind of just
• 32:38
  fasttracked that that I got sped up,
• 32:41
  right? So that at that point everything
• 32:43
  changes and you you really look and say,
• 32:45
  am I going to continue this 15 years
• 32:47
  this way and then do something else now?
• 32:49
  Let's just pull it forward. Yeah. We
• 32:50
  don't again we don't know what's going
• 32:51
  to happen tomorrow.
• 32:52
  >> Yeah.
• 32:52
  >> All right. So now you're thinking about
• 32:53
  Z coming in and out and so I'm thinking
• 32:56
  about what I want to do next and um knew
• 32:59
  that I wanted to get out in New York
• 33:00
  City. I was looking for opportunities on
• 33:02
  the West Coast. I thought, okay, this is
• 33:03
  a good time to maybe try a different
• 33:05
  part of the country.
• 33:06
  >> Okay.
• 33:06
  >> And then Leman had a a thirdyear analyst
• 33:09
  position open up in the LA office. Oh.
• 33:13
  So I thought, okay, I'll stay and do a
• 33:15
  third year that'll take me to the West
• 33:17
  Coast and then I can figure out what I
• 33:18
  want to do in mass. So I went to LA,
• 33:21
  moved to LA, that's how I got to
• 33:23
  California.
• 33:24
  >> Gotcha. And did another year at Lehman.
• 33:27
  Um and then ultimately uh the managing
• 33:30
  director that I was reporting to and
• 33:32
  another person on our team, the three of
• 33:34
  us left together and started a small
• 33:38
  kind of boutique real estate investment
• 33:41
  advisory company.
• 33:42
  >> Okay. So now, so it's so so starting to
• 33:44
  Kansas and now to Dartmouth, New York
• 33:47
  City, end and up in LA. Yeah. Are are
• 33:50
  you how you liking LA? I mean, LA was a
• 33:52
  LA was awesome.
• 33:53
  >> Yeah. Right. LA's a in your mid20s, LA
• 33:55
  has a great place.
• 33:56
  >> So So you're having a blast. You now had
• 33:59
  started with a couple of partners. You
• 34:00
  started a a new organization. What are
• 34:03
  you doing there? How long are you with
• 34:05
  that organization? And kind of where
• 34:07
  does the story go as you continue to
• 34:09
  evolve?
• 34:09
  >> Yeah. So, I loved starting that company.
• 34:12
  The people that I worked with were
• 34:14
  awesome. Um,
• 34:16
  you know, I was in LA in my mid20s
• 34:20
  starting this company. Uh, having a
• 34:22
  great time inside and outside of work
• 34:25
  and, uh, so we had that business for
• 34:27
  about 2 years.
• 34:29
  >> Okay. And we were doing some really
• 34:31
  unique things in the marketplace. But we
• 34:32
  were basically uh advising private
• 34:36
  equity companies and other companies
• 34:38
  that had real estate holdings on assets
• 34:41
  to uh divest where to invest more. We
• 34:45
  were bringing in equity partners,
• 34:47
  bringing in debt, structuring the
• 34:49
  capital stack for real estate deals. And
• 34:52
  the managing director that I was working
• 34:54
  with basically said, "I'm tired of being
• 34:56
  on a plane back to New York every time
• 34:58
  the group head calls me. I only want to
• 35:01
  do deals where I can um be in and out in
• 35:04
  a day, so I never have to travel. I've
• 35:07
  got He had young kids at the time. And
• 35:09
  so we basically said, "Okay, we'll only
• 35:10
  go where we can get on a Southwest
• 35:12
  flight." Yep. And be out and back from
• 35:14
  LA. So we were basically covering the
• 35:16
  West Coast, Phoenix, uh Las Vegas. Okay.
• 35:19
  Um so we're kind of doing deals all
• 35:21
  through uh California. Did some stuff in
• 35:23
  Silicon Valley. And uh it was it was it
• 35:26
  was fun. Yeah. need was, you know, we
• 35:29
  brought some really good client
• 35:30
  relationships with us from Lehman.
• 35:32
  >> Sure. And uh we were doing cool deals
• 35:35
  and that uh within the commercial real
• 35:37
  estate sector got some pretty good
• 35:40
  attention for us relatively quickly and
• 35:42
  ultimately um we were approached by
• 35:45
  three or four companies that wanted to
• 35:47
  bring our skills and expertise into
• 35:50
  their business
• 35:52
  >> and um I was a
• 35:55
  junior partner basically. Yeah, the
• 35:57
  managing director owned 75 or 80% of the
• 36:00
  company. Okay. I owned like 15%. So, it
• 36:03
  was cool that he allowed me to be part
• 36:05
  of the the equity and yeah, be a
• 36:07
  co-founder. Uh but ultimately, I didn't
• 36:09
  have a controlling sake. And so, if it
• 36:12
  had been up to me, I would have wanted
• 36:13
  to continue to grow that really. Okay. I
• 36:16
  was I was having fun and I saw a path
• 36:19
  for us to grow that into a uh pretty
• 36:22
  substantial business. Um but ultimately
• 36:24
  he decided that it would be better for
• 36:26
  us to go and and sell. So so we ended up
• 36:29
  selling it to Jones like Massage the big
• 36:31
  >> Oh sure. Absolutely. Yeah. And I just
• 36:34
  looked at it and thought I don't I don't
• 36:36
  want to go work for a 28,000 person
• 36:39
  company.
• 36:40
  >> Yep. Well, if we'd had the Lehman
• 36:41
  experience and now you've got your own
• 36:43
  small and you you're liking that you're
• 36:46
  joining the deals, the conversations JL
• 36:49
  Jones like JL is going to be a huge
• 36:51
  company again. Yeah. So, you're like,
• 36:52
  "Okay, I'm not sure I want to move
• 36:54
  forward here."
• 36:54
  >> Yeah. And in the meantime, while all
• 36:56
  that was happening, so I kind of early
• 36:59
  on saw the direction that we were going
• 37:01
  to probably sell. Um, independent of
• 37:04
  that, I had reconnected with a Dartmouth
• 37:06
  buddy of mine. And we would go go to
• 37:09
  dinner and go to Lakers games. And he
• 37:12
  had a business that at the time was
• 37:15
  pretty new and growing and innovative.
• 37:17
  we would we now know it as like a search
• 37:19
  engine marketing agency but it was
• 37:21
  really before that existed. So he was
• 37:23
  helping people get listed online and
• 37:26
  also as Google started doing Google
• 37:28
  advertising he would help them manage
• 37:30
  their Google advertising. So he was
• 37:32
  coming from more of a e-commerce yep
• 37:35
  Google world and uh so I was kind of
• 37:38
  fascinated by what he was doing the
• 37:40
  companies that he was working with and
• 37:43
  um so he said well hey if you ever want
• 37:45
  to do something together I'd be up for
• 37:47
  partnering on something and so you know
• 37:50
  we had a series of conversations over a
• 37:52
  series of months and then the real
• 37:54
  estate business is ultimately being sold
• 37:57
  and so I went to Mike and said hey I
• 38:00
  we're going to sell it to Jones the I
• 38:02
  don't want to go work for those guys.
• 38:04
  Um, how about we do something together?
• 38:06
  Yeah. Yeah. And uh, and so he said,
• 38:08
  "Cool. Like, let's figure out what we're
• 38:10
  going to do." And, you know, for me,
• 38:12
  that decision was really, um, I felt
• 38:16
  like that was 2007. Okay. This point,
• 38:19
  um, I felt like e-commerce was here to
• 38:22
  stay and that e-commerce was just going
• 38:24
  to continue to go. Yeah. And so um we
• 38:29
  had to figure out what we were going to
• 38:30
  sell. Uh but but we knew that we wanted
• 38:34
  to do this was the area you wanted to
• 38:35
  be. Yeah.
• 38:36
  >> Yeah. And um I felt like there was a
• 38:40
  nice you know kind of think about like
• 38:42
  going into part you know business
• 38:43
  partnership with someone. How is that
• 38:45
  structure? Right.
• 38:46
  >> Um so we spent a lot of time talking
• 38:48
  about that. U Mike was really really
• 38:50
  good at marketing. Obviously that's what
• 38:51
  he did for his full-time job. Um he
• 38:55
  didn't want to run the business
• 38:56
  dayto-day. I had the time. Y so we kind
• 38:59
  of had a very clear delineation of what
• 39:02
  our expectations were on roles and
• 39:04
  responsibility. Sure. We both put in
• 39:06
  some money
• 39:07
  >> and so that's how we got started.
• 39:09
  >> Okay. And that I could talk more about
• 39:11
  what we started but that business is now
• 39:14
  Memory Ventures which has evolved into a
• 39:17
  lot more than what we originally
• 39:18
  started.
• 39:18
  >> Yeah. So now now you're with Memory
• 39:20
  Ventures, but Memory Ventures is
• 39:22
  multiple organizations, right? So would
• 39:25
  be would be great to learn the three or
• 39:27
  four different entities and what you
• 39:28
  guys are doing and just more about the
• 39:30
  business.
• 39:30
  >> Yeah, absolutely. So what we originally
• 39:32
  started was a brand that is called Scan
• 39:35
  Digital. It's still one of our brands
• 39:36
  today. And the idea for Scan Digital was
• 39:40
  um it's 2007 digital camera cameras had
• 39:43
  just become more prominent.
• 39:45
  >> Yeah. And um it really came from an
• 39:48
  experience that Mike had with his
• 39:50
  family. He was sitting at the Christmas
• 39:52
  dinner table and his mom had just
• 39:54
  received a digital camera for Christmas
• 39:57
  and she was having fun taking the photos
• 39:59
  and then loading them on the computer
• 40:01
  and emailing them out to f this before
• 40:03
  social media even sure to friends or
• 40:05
  whatever. Um, and so she said, "Do Mike,
• 40:08
  like I want to get all those old photo
• 40:10
  albums from the garage onto my computer,
• 40:13
  too, so that I can like y,
• 40:15
  >> you know, do like a photo of you now and
• 40:17
  a photo of when you were a bang or
• 40:18
  whatever." Um, and that was kind of a
• 40:21
  light bulb moment. So, he came to me
• 40:22
  like a week later was like, "Hey, I
• 40:24
  think I have an idea of Yeah, I So, we
• 40:27
  spent a couple months doing research and
• 40:30
  it was it was a I was in a really
• 40:33
  fortunate situation. I was able to work
• 40:36
  out a deal to be a consultant to JLL for
• 40:39
  six months.
• 40:40
  >> Okay.
• 40:41
  >> And so while I'm being consultant to
• 40:43
  transition our deals, transition our
• 40:45
  clients, uh while I had those six
• 40:48
  months, I was also
• 40:51
  figuring out how to get about this
• 40:52
  thing, right? Uh so that was what we
• 40:56
  originally started scander rule
• 40:59
  >> and uh and then that was 2007.
• 41:05
  By 2011, we realized like, okay, we've
• 41:08
  built this great scanning business, but
• 41:10
  people inherently have a finite amount
• 41:12
  of stuff to scan, you know. Um, so we
• 41:14
  were looking for ways to offer other
• 41:16
  products or services. Uh, so we ended up
• 41:19
  acquiring a uh small printing company,
• 41:22
  >> okay,
• 41:22
  >> where we could do wall decor products.
• 41:24
  And the idea was that, hey, you get your
• 41:28
  stuff digitized with us, then we can
• 41:29
  turn it into a dollar canvas, you had a
• 41:32
  wall, right? Yeah. Uh, so we were doing
• 41:34
  that and then we got to 2013
• 41:38
  and one of our marketing team members
• 41:42
  said, "Hey, we have all this extra
• 41:44
  printer capacity. Like, we're not
• 41:45
  selling enough to our scanning customers
• 41:47
  to utilize all of our production
• 41:49
  capacity. Uh, Amazon now allows you to
• 41:53
  be a seller. I think we should sell our
• 41:56
  print products on Amazon." Okay. But
• 41:59
  instead of having family photos, we'd
• 42:01
  have to have other stuff that we could
• 42:02
  put on the canvases. So we thought,
• 42:04
  okay, what what can we do? So we went,
• 42:07
  licensed a bunch of photography, city
• 42:09
  skylines, sports stadiums. Okay, so we
• 42:12
  start so 2013, we started selling them
• 42:14
  on Amazon. And during all of this, the
• 42:18
  company was growing really fast. Um, we
• 42:21
  were having a great time growing it, but
• 42:23
  we were putting every day right back,
• 42:26
  okay, into the business. Yeah. Um, so by
• 42:30
  the time we got to 2014,
• 42:32
  uh, I went to Mike and I said, "Hey, I
• 42:34
  think it's time for us to look at
• 42:36
  potentially selling this business. We're
• 42:37
  just 7 years in. You know, we've grown
• 42:39
  it nicely, but neither of us has ever
• 42:42
  pulled any cash out of the business."
• 42:44
  So, we went through a process to to sell
• 42:46
  the business.
• 42:47
  >> Okay. And ultimately we ended up signing
• 42:51
  a contract to um sell the company to a
• 42:55
  group that was going to buy us and two
• 42:58
  or three other companies and they were
• 43:00
  going to do a big PE backed roll up.
• 43:02
  Sure. Uh kind of did the personal memory
• 43:04
  space. Okay. So I thought, okay, this is
• 43:07
  great. We're going to we built this
• 43:09
  business seven years. We're going to
• 43:10
  have a nice exit nice for both Mike and
• 43:13
  I. uh Mike's search engine marketing
• 43:16
  business was growing like crazy. So like
• 43:18
  he was like great I could use the
• 43:19
  capital to reinvest in my sh marketing
• 43:22
  business and uh we ultimately get to the
• 43:27
  last day of due diligence and the
• 43:29
  company that was spearheading the
• 43:31
  acquisition came back and said, "Hey,
• 43:33
  we're still lining up the funding.
• 43:35
  Nothing to worry about. We just need
• 43:37
  another 30 days." So we said, "Okay, no
• 43:38
  problem. We'll sign a 30-day extension."
• 43:40
  Yep. 30 days goes by. They come back and
• 43:42
  say, "Hey, nothing to worry about, but
• 43:45
  we don't have the the funding yet. We
• 43:48
  just need you to sign another 30-day
• 43:50
  extension." And we said, "Okay, we'll
• 43:52
  look at that, but at this point, we've
• 43:55
  put a bunch of time into this. Yep.
• 43:57
  We've now invested some legal fees.
• 43:59
  We've got some accounting. Like, we've
• 44:00
  actually started spending way under this
• 44:02
  transaction done. We'd like you to give
• 44:05
  us half a percent of the deal as a
• 44:07
  non-refundable deposit." that'll give us
• 44:10
  the comfort that you guys are confident
• 44:11
  you're getting this time. And so they
• 44:13
  thought about it for a few days. They
• 44:14
  came back and they said, "No, we're not
• 44:16
  going to do that."
• 44:17
  >> Okay.
• 44:18
  >> So went back to Mike and said, "All
• 44:22
  right, bad news is the deal fell apart."
• 44:25
  >> Yep.
• 44:26
  >> Uh the good news is it didn't fall apart
• 44:29
  because there's anything fundamentally
• 44:30
  wrong with it. Is there anything they
• 44:31
  can show due diligence? Yeah. This is
• 44:33
  just they just didn't work. They just
• 44:35
  didn't get the funding that they right.
• 44:38
  And um I said I think what my what I
• 44:42
  think we should do is we should pivot
• 44:45
  from putting every dollar back into
• 44:46
  trying to grow topline revenue and let's
• 44:49
  focus on optimizing this business for
• 44:52
  bottom line and for cash flow.
• 44:53
  >> Okay. And you and I will get our return
• 44:56
  on investment. I put in a lot of time.
• 44:58
  He was throwing his marketing business
• 45:00
  but I put in a bunch of time. We both
• 45:01
  put in a bunch of money and we certainly
• 45:03
  both had reinvested profits of the
• 45:05
  business. Sure. uh by signing we could
• 45:08
  still get a return on our time and and
• 45:10
  monetary investment if we just pivot to
• 45:13
  to cash flow, you know, and he said,
• 45:15
  "Okay, that you know that sounds great
• 45:17
  to me. I I would like to had the
• 45:19
  liquidity event, but I don't absolutely
• 45:20
  have to have it. I wasn't counting on it
• 45:22
  necessarily." Yeah.
• 45:23
  >> Uh so I started looking at the business
• 45:27
  through the lens of cash flow and we
• 45:31
  were already pretty operationally
• 45:32
  efficient. And we were already pretty
• 45:35
  efficient with our marketing dollhouse.
• 45:37
  And it came very apparent fairly quickly
• 45:40
  that the big thing we could do to cut
• 45:44
  costs would be not be in Sbury,
• 45:45
  California.
• 45:45
  >> Yeah. Cuz you're still in LA. You're
• 45:47
  running all this in LA.
• 45:48
  >> Yeah.
• 45:49
  >> Hugely expensive. Yeah. Okay. So now
• 45:51
  you're thinking move maybe moving to
• 45:54
  business somewhere.
• 45:55
  >> Made you move the business. And
• 45:56
  coincidentally, I shouldn't gloss over
• 45:59
  probably the more important detail,
• 46:01
  which is I met my wife and we got
• 46:03
  married in 2013. Okay, she grew up in
• 46:06
  Michigan. All right, we're at that same
• 46:08
  time starting to think about having a
• 46:10
  family. And so we had made we kind of
• 46:13
  made an agreement like we're going to
• 46:14
  sell the company. I'll go do whatever my
• 46:17
  required time was, two or three years.
• 46:19
  Yeah. And then by the time we're ready
• 46:20
  to have kids, uh, or certainly school
• 46:23
  age kids, we'll try and move somewhere
• 46:25
  in the Midwest.
• 46:26
  >> Okay.
• 46:26
  >> So, it was kind of this like star stars
• 46:28
  aligning moment where the goal was to
• 46:30
  get back closer to family. Obviously,
• 46:32
  your parents are still in Kansas, right?
• 46:34
  >> Yeah. Her parents are missing.
• 46:35
  >> Okay. So, that was the goal.
• 46:37
  >> So, so we did that with the the longer
• 46:39
  term goal. I think at the time when we
• 46:41
  were having those conversations, we
• 46:42
  thought we'd sell the business, we move
• 46:44
  here, and I'd start something else.
• 46:45
  Yeah. Um but as it turned out the kind
• 46:48
  of business trajectory made it clear
• 46:52
  that we should not be in Southern
• 46:53
  California. So the stars align personal
• 46:56
  family and uh business said let's get
• 47:00
  out of Southern California.
• 47:01
  >> Sure.
• 47:02
  >> Um so I spent the summer of 2014.
• 47:07
  My wife was pregnant with our oldest
• 47:09
  daughter. spent the summer of 2014
• 47:12
  crisscrossing the Midwest trying to
• 47:13
  figure out where we were going to move
• 47:15
  the business and uh you know kind of
• 47:18
  along the way was still having those
• 47:20
  conversations with Mike about what's
• 47:21
  happening and hey like I think in order
• 47:23
  to optimize cachable we move that shirts
• 47:26
  and he said look like you're going to be
• 47:28
  the one doing it if you want to do that
• 47:29
  I'm good with it like you know I trust
• 47:31
  that you'll get it done and that way
• 47:33
  that doesn't you know create a bunch of
• 47:36
  risk for the business. Sure. So that was
• 47:40
  kind of my goal 2000 summer 2014 find
• 47:43
  the the new home. Um and so we basically
• 47:48
  drew a big circle on the map.
• 47:49
  >> Yep.
• 47:51
  >> And uh knew that we wanted to bring at
• 47:53
  least some of our employees from LA with
• 47:55
  us. So we had to go into a fairly decent
• 47:57
  sized city. Um, and basically, you know,
• 48:02
  when you do a circle on the map from
• 48:03
  Michigan to Kansas, there's like six
• 48:05
  cities that fall in there. And Chicago,
• 48:07
  the cost of living with Chicago wasn't
• 48:09
  that much different, you know, and um,
• 48:12
  you know, didn't really make sense for
• 48:14
  us to go uh exactly where one of our
• 48:17
  families were. So, we say we're going to
• 48:19
  go for our family, we're going to go
• 48:21
  somewhere that we can make our own uh
• 48:23
  kind of for our own path. So we narrowed
• 48:26
  it down to uh Grand Rapids, Michigan,
• 48:28
  Columbus, Ohio, and Indianapolis. Yep.
• 48:31
  And uh in that process, I was talking
• 48:34
  with the state of Ohio, the state of
• 48:36
  Indiana, and the state of Michigan. Um
• 48:38
  we were at the time that we were looking
• 48:40
  at this, we were ranked in the LA
• 48:43
  Business Journal, the eighth fastest
• 48:44
  grow private company. Yeah. Sure. Uh so
• 48:48
  we were you know even though we're not a
• 48:50
  huge company uh we were on a trajectory
• 48:53
  and yeah large enough with some track
• 48:56
  record uh that we were getting some good
• 48:59
  attention from uh these Midwestern
• 49:01
  states uh with the exception of Ohio
• 49:04
  they were kind of focused on bigger
• 49:06
  manufacturing type stuff. It was just
• 49:07
  clear like an e-commerce business wasn't
• 49:09
  >> was it going to work was it wasn't
• 49:10
  something they were they were on the
• 49:11
  focus.
• 49:12
  >> Yeah. But Michigan and Indiana were both
• 49:14
  uh really looking at, you know, kind of
• 49:17
  actively recruiting us, excited for us
• 49:19
  to be there, Jay. Um so spent like four
• 49:22
  or five days in Red Rapids and then a
• 49:24
  few days here in Indiana.
• 49:27
  And through that process, um ultimately
• 49:31
  uh we were working with someone at the
• 49:33
  state who said, "Hey, I think you should
• 49:35
  uh look at Fisers. I'm got to know you
• 49:38
  for a few days and uh you're pretty
• 49:41
  entrepreneurial and they're doing some
• 49:42
  really cool stuff in Fischer. Yeah.
• 49:43
  Entrepreneurship. Yeah.
• 49:44
  >> So coincidentally that's for those who
• 49:47
  are listening to this who are from this
• 49:50
  area. It was Lincoln Bombarder who
• 49:52
  called the director of economic
• 49:53
  development for the city of Fischers but
• 49:54
  she was at the state at the time. She
• 49:56
  was our rep and she's hey I really think
• 49:58
  you should look at Fischers. that got
• 49:59
  hacked. You know, we'll probably live in
• 50:02
  the suburbs, but we had started the
• 50:04
  company in Elsagundo, California in a
• 50:07
  brick building. We have built in 1934,
• 50:10
  >> and that drove a lot of our culture and
• 50:12
  having this kind of like quaint walkable
• 50:15
  environment like we kind of had that
• 50:17
  startup cult. So, I was thinking about
• 50:18
  going to more of like an urban
• 50:20
  >> sure environment. But I said, "Hey, like
• 50:23
  I'm happy to go look." So we came out to
• 50:25
  Fisers and spent half a day and you know
• 50:29
  this is 20 summer 2014.
• 50:31
  >> Yeah.
• 50:31
  >> And it was clear that the the the
• 50:35
  town being moved into a city was on an
• 50:38
  interesting path.
• 50:39
  >> Yeah.
• 50:39
  >> A lot of growth happening um and really
• 50:43
  liked what we had to hear. And the fact
• 50:45
  that anybody from any sort of government
• 50:47
  agency or municipal agency was even
• 50:49
  engaged in trying to figure out what
• 50:50
  they could do to help our business was
• 50:52
  sure such a like breath of fresh air to
• 50:54
  your heart refreshing. Is that right?
• 50:55
  >> Compared to what we were getting in
• 50:56
  California, are you sure? So ultimately
• 50:59
  ended up coming back uh the next day um
• 51:03
  and met with uh Mayor Fisers who at the
• 51:06
  time was mayor elect. Um and he said
• 51:08
  Mike, hey, here's my vision for the
• 51:10
  city. I've been town manager for however
• 51:12
  many years. Here's my vision for what I
• 51:14
  I think is going to happen here. We need
• 51:17
  entrepreneurs to come help us write the
• 51:19
  story of Fischers and if you move your
• 51:20
  business here, you can be involved in
• 51:22
  helping us determine what Fischers
• 51:24
  becomes. And that was basically all I
• 51:27
  needed to kind of make up my mind.
• 51:30
  And uh and so I went back to my wife and
• 51:32
  said, "Hey, I think we should move to
• 51:33
  Fischers, Indiana." And I told her all
• 51:35
  about the experience.
• 51:37
  >> She said, "That sounds amazing."
• 51:39
  >> Yeah. Uh so we ended up moving here in
• 51:44
  uh November or December of 2014
• 51:47
  with a uh two-month old you daughter
• 51:52
  >> and now you know fast forward whatever
• 51:54
  it's been 11 years cuz I'm so that's
• 51:56
  awesome you know excellent business and
• 51:58
  terrific to have you here at Fisers and
• 52:00
  what a great part of our city and and
• 52:03
  how it's evolved over the last 11 years
• 52:06
  you know technology right so when you
• 52:08
  think about your business. It all
• 52:10
  started in tech, right? Up scanning
• 52:12
  things, getting them in there. Your
• 52:14
  business today, how is technology maybe
• 52:17
  helping you change what you're doing? Do
• 52:19
  you think there are some things that are
• 52:20
  coming in the near future? What what's
• 52:22
  what's going on in your world from a
• 52:24
  technology perspective?
• 52:25
  >> Uh, so I think it's an ever ever
• 52:29
  evolving thing that as a business
• 52:30
  leader, it's part of my job to really
• 52:33
  try and stay ahead of and understand
• 52:35
  what's happening. I think over the years
• 52:36
  that we've been in business um I've
• 52:40
  noticed that the uh amount of change uh
• 52:44
  is greater and the speed at which the
• 52:47
  change is happening is also accelerating
• 52:49
  and so that makes it uh in some ways
• 52:52
  really really exciting
• 52:53
  >> in some ways also very challenging.
• 52:55
  >> Sure.
• 52:56
  >> Um so we've implemented some AI based
• 52:59
  tools around our photo scanning process
• 53:02
  which have been really helpful.
• 53:04
  >> Okay. Um, and then we're using quite a
• 53:07
  bit of AI as it relates to some of our
• 53:09
  marketing efforts.
• 53:11
  >> Uh, some of those have worked well, some
• 53:13
  of those haven't worked well. Uh, some
• 53:16
  of the stuff that comes out of the AI
• 53:17
  tools is pretty incredible and kind of
• 53:20
  mind-blowing. Some of it is doesn't make
• 53:22
  any sense, right? Sure. So, um, it's an
• 53:25
  ever evolving thing. We're we're
• 53:28
  constantly looking at, uh, how to
• 53:31
  integrate those tools. Um, I know that
• 53:34
  we've had to talk to some of our
• 53:36
  employees about what that means and have
• 53:38
  those conversations because I think
• 53:39
  there's some fear and trepidation
• 53:41
  understandably about what that could
• 53:43
  mean for certain types of positions. But
• 53:45
  my philosophy has been um if we're not
• 53:49
  doing it, one of our competitors is
• 53:50
  going to be doing it, right? And so, um,
• 53:54
  we have tried to help our people feel
• 53:58
  comfortable that a the AI is not going
• 54:00
  to replace your jobs. us not adopting AI
• 54:04
  and have a competitor that does kick our
• 54:06
  butt. Yeah.
• 54:07
  >> Could replace you. That's right. Yeah.
• 54:08
  That's the bigger threat.
• 54:09
  >> Yeah.
• 54:10
  >> Um and then looking for places where um
• 54:14
  AI is not necessarily just replacing
• 54:16
  humans, but AI is sort of amplifying the
• 54:19
  output and the productivity. uh which I
• 54:21
  think ultimately is to the employees
• 54:23
  benefit because agree it helps us
• 54:25
  produce more uh better financial results
• 54:29
  for the business which can go into
• 54:30
  earning you know more earning
• 54:32
  opportunity for them. Yeah. Giving your
• 54:34
  giving your teammates an opportunity to
• 54:36
  accelerate what they're doing, grow the
• 54:38
  business, war off competition, do it at
• 54:41
  a little bit lower cost in some
• 54:43
  situations for growth. That's the best
• 54:44
  path forward. It's great that you're
• 54:46
  having conversations with your new
• 54:48
  teammates though because there is some
• 54:49
  fear out there. So before we get to some
• 54:52
  fun and kids and all those types thing,
• 54:54
  let's talk community. Yeah. Right. So
• 54:56
  obviously we're in Fischers. We have in
• 54:57
  the Fischers building here, Braden, and
• 55:00
  I know you're part of the community in a
• 55:01
  number of different ways, but I think
• 55:02
  there's a nonprofit you care about. Tell
• 55:04
  me a little bit about that.
• 55:05
  >> Yeah. So um I'm involved. I'm currently
• 55:07
  serving as the co-president of the board
• 55:09
  for a group called Fischers Youth
• 55:11
  Initiative. And Fischer's Youth
• 55:13
  Initiative was formed about a year ago.
• 55:16
  Um it was the merger of two existing
• 55:18
  youth serving um nonprofits, Fisher
• 55:21
  Youth Assistance Program and another
• 55:23
  organization called Youth Mentoring
• 55:25
  Initiative. Okay. So the two boards
• 55:27
  decided about a year ago that it made
• 55:29
  sense for us to merge those together so
• 55:31
  that we have one central um kind of
• 55:35
  nonprofit in the community that's
• 55:37
  focused on serving our kids that are
• 55:39
  most most at risk. So we through um
• 55:43
  Precious Youth Initiative, we run a
• 55:45
  mentoring program. Okay.
• 55:46
  >> Where kids can be paired up with mentors
• 55:48
  to help them kind of navigate the
• 55:50
  challenges of of uh being a kid these
• 55:53
  days.
• 55:53
  >> Yeah.
• 55:54
  >> Um and we run a meals food and security
• 55:58
  program um for kids that maybe don't
• 56:00
  have access to maybe during school year
• 56:02
  are on free reduced lunch but during the
• 56:05
  summer months don't have access to
• 56:06
  school or on weekends don't have access
• 56:08
  to to food. Um, so we run a meals uh
• 56:11
  kind of food program.
• 56:13
  >> Okay.
• 56:13
  >> And uh and then we're just trying to do
• 56:15
  everything we can to stay ahead of the
• 56:17
  needs that are kind of evolving. And so
• 56:20
  uh it's been a really rewarding
• 56:22
  organization to be part of. Um we serve
• 56:26
  across our programs. We serve I think
• 56:28
  close to a thousand mile kids and
• 56:30
  probably about five or 600 families
• 56:32
  something like that. Yeah. Um so it's a
• 56:35
  big big impact um on those kids and you
• 56:39
  know generally the the broad philosophy
• 56:41
  is if we can reach those kids uh early
• 56:45
  on when they're going through a
• 56:47
  challenge and help have programs that
• 56:50
  whether that's food so that they're able
• 56:52
  to focus in school Yeah. and continue to
• 56:54
  learn or mentoring so that they you know
• 56:57
  if they don't necessarily have the most
• 56:59
  stable situation at home they have a
• 57:02
  stable mentor in their life. Um we think
• 57:05
  that that in the long run keeps kids on
• 57:08
  a good path and you know ultimately not
• 57:11
  only benefits them but benefits the
• 57:13
  larger community. Uh and it's just so
• 57:15
  much and easier to intervene and course
• 57:17
  correct at a young age than waiting
• 57:19
  until kids are older and way off track.
• 57:22
  That's right. Uh, so great opportunity
• 57:25
  to get involved in the community.
• 57:27
  1,000ish kids and 500 families. That's a
• 57:29
  lot. So, how could the community help
• 57:31
  you and the organization? How could
• 57:33
  people get engaged?
• 57:34
  >> Yeah. So, if you go to the Fisers Youth
• 57:36
  Initiative website, um, we always have
• 57:39
  volunteer opportunities. U, we are
• 57:41
  actively looking for more mentors. Okay.
• 57:44
  >> Um, so I think we have 50 or 60 kids
• 57:47
  that have been referred into that
• 57:48
  program.
• 57:49
  >> Oh, wow.
• 57:49
  >> That are still waiting on mentors. So J,
• 57:52
  you know, mentor recruitment, it's
• 57:53
  always a need. And then of course um if
• 57:56
  people aren't able to donate their time,
• 57:58
  we're always uh looking for more
• 58:00
  financial adding assistance. So people
• 58:02
  who are involved in businesses, if they
• 58:05
  want to become a corporate donor, we
• 58:06
  would appreciate that. Even the small
• 58:09
  donations, if people feel compelled, uh
• 58:12
  we feel like it's pretty easy for people
• 58:13
  to get their heads around like in a
• 58:15
  community like Fischers, we should not
• 58:17
  have kids that are
• 58:18
  >> Yeah.
• 58:19
  >> going hungry, going without the guides.
• 58:20
  They need
• 58:21
  >> Yeah. It's terrific. All right. So,
• 58:23
  before we end up Yeah.
• 58:24
  >> Let's talk about fun. So, you mentioned
• 58:26
  when you moved here, you had a
• 58:27
  two-month-old.
• 58:28
  >> Yeah.
• 58:28
  >> But a couple of kids. So, what's fun
• 58:30
  look like for you and the family if
• 58:32
  you're not working?
• 58:33
  >> Uh, so right now we're spending most of
• 58:35
  our weekends on the sidelines of some
• 58:37
  sort of uh sporting event, which has
• 58:39
  really been fun.
• 58:40
  >> Um, you know, we uh uh my wife and I did
• 58:46
  quite a bit of traveling. Obviously
• 58:47
  lived in California before we had a
• 58:49
  family. So when we decided to have a
• 58:52
  family, we kind of made you we did it
• 58:54
  with the understanding that like this is
• 58:56
  the we're fully invested in the family
• 58:59
  phase of life. Sure. That's our top
• 59:01
  priority. So we're kind of doing
• 59:03
  whatever the kids need us to do right
• 59:04
  now. That happens to be sidelines of
• 59:07
  soccer games, sidelines of basketball
• 59:09
  games. Um uh I've got two kids that are
• 59:13
  active in track and cross country. Um so
• 59:16
  we're kind of on the go between
• 59:17
  practices and sports.
• 59:18
  >> Yeah. Um, but it's fun to see the kids
• 59:21
  grow and excel and uh find the things
• 59:24
  that they they enjoy.
• 59:25
  >> You know, it's a short period of time
• 59:27
  where you have that opportunity to do
• 59:28
  that with your kids. So, investing in it
• 59:30
  now is like you're doing with the
• 59:31
  community, right? Those are the things
• 59:33
  that are really going to matter because
• 59:35
  I'll tell you, you know, mine at five
• 59:37
  and they they get older and they move on
• 59:39
  very quickly, but it feels like
• 59:41
  yesterday. Yeah. Right. That I was on
• 59:42
  the sidelines with you. Excellent story.
• 59:45
  Thanks for sharing your story with us.
• 59:46
  It's uh it's terrific to hear. Thank you
• 59:49
  for all that you're doing and actually
• 59:50
  thank you for being in Fisers and
• 59:52
  helping support the community as well.
• 59:54
  Thanks for having me. Thanks. Appreciate
• 59:55
  it.