Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Evil female SERIAL KILLER poses as DATELINE NBC PRODUCER to lure victim

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Evil female SERIAL KILLER poses as DATELINE NBC PRODUCER to lure victim · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:04
Speaker 1: Pam Hup cauling police, insisting someone is breaking into her home.
0:09
Speaker 1: So how does this relate to another woman dead? Another
0:16
Speaker 1: woman stabbed fifty five times? How is this connected to
0:20
Speaker 1: an elaborate plot to nab one hundred and fifty thousand
0:25
Speaker 1: dollars life insurance and frame a guy. There's so many
0:29
Speaker 1: dead bodies it's hard to keep up with them. You've
0:32
Speaker 1: got Betsy Faria, her best friend with a life insurance policy,
0:35
Speaker 1: stabbed fifty five times. You've got the death of the mom,
0:41
Speaker 1: and you have the death of the so called intruder
0:44
Speaker 1: Louis Gumpenburger. Let's just take one piece of the puzzle
0:49
Speaker 1: at a time. How did we get here? Crime stories
1:02
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace one work? Mrgency? What's the address here? At?
1:14
Speaker 1: Your wife? No? I'm not getting in the car with you. No,
1:17
Speaker 1: why do I address? Get out? Get out? Get out, Tam?
1:23
Speaker 1: What's the address you're at? Somebody breaking around? No? Hello, Oh,
1:37
Speaker 1: ma'am can you hear me? Oh? What's the address you're at?
1:49
Speaker 1: Is that real? You are hearing? Pam Huh on a
1:53
Speaker 1: nine one one call saying someone is breaking into her home?
1:58
Speaker 1: So how does this relate to another woman dead, another
2:05
Speaker 1: woman stabbed fifty five times? How is this connected to
2:09
Speaker 1: an elaborate plot to nab one hundred and fifty thousand
2:14
Speaker 1: dollars life insurance and frame a guy? I'm Meancy Grace.
2:19
Speaker 1: This is crime stories. Thank you for being with us.
2:21
Speaker 1: Let's just take one piece of the puzzle at a time.
2:25
Speaker 1: Let's start with more of that nine one one called
2:28
Speaker 1: Pam Hup calling police insisting someone is breaking into her home.
2:32
Speaker 1: Where are you at? Who broke into your home? I
2:37
Speaker 1: don't know where's the out right here? I'd come on
2:47
Speaker 1: the fire alarms are going up too. He is he inside? Yes?
2:54
Speaker 1: Is he a white? Mol black? Moal? Holli, holli, holli.
3:00
Speaker 1: He try to give me to take you into his car,
3:05
Speaker 1: and like car, hli hi, We're have officers on the way. Ma'am.
3:16
Speaker 1: Where are you at right now? In the homebag? Hy car?
3:21
Speaker 1: He's still in the house. Okay? Can you run to
3:24
Speaker 1: a neighbor's house. I don't think there's anybody home. I
3:28
Speaker 1: stay here. I hit my dog, I hit my couppyp
3:31
Speaker 1: with you. Okay. You're hearing more of that nine one
3:34
Speaker 1: one call, and it just gets curiouser and curiouser as
3:40
Speaker 1: they said, and Alice in Wonderland. That's them, not me.
3:43
Speaker 1: I know it's supposed to be more and more curious
3:47
Speaker 1: with me w CIV ABC for Charleston's and Amerson and Amerson,
3:54
Speaker 1: I don't know. She didn't sound too upset to me
3:56
Speaker 1: when she said somebody's breaking in at the beginning of
3:58
Speaker 1: that nine one one call. She just gets more and
4:01
Speaker 1: more adamant Nancy as she gets she goes along. She's
4:03
Speaker 1: got a story and she's sticking to it. And and
4:06
Speaker 1: this was an extraordinary way for her to to to
4:12
Speaker 1: set all of this up and gets this going, she thought.
4:15
Speaker 1: She told the nine one one U de fast, she
4:18
Speaker 1: has somebody who is breaking into our home and and
4:22
Speaker 1: she is going to do what it takes to get
4:24
Speaker 1: them to believe it. But no, she sounds very calculated. Well,
4:27
Speaker 1: as a matter of fact, listen to this. What's your name?
4:30
Speaker 1: My name Sam? Yes? Where is it is? Anybody in
4:36
Speaker 1: the home with you? Besides the subject to broken? No,
4:39
Speaker 1: just my dog, just you and your dogs? Second, my
4:42
Speaker 1: dog with me? Help? Please? Where are it? We have
4:48
Speaker 1: help on the way. Let me know when you can
4:49
Speaker 1: hear them. Okay, I should have an officer pulling up.
4:59
Speaker 1: Do you see it's an unwhite car. I don't know,
5:03
Speaker 1: it's just a white car. It's gonna be one of
5:05
Speaker 1: our command's staff. Is he in a uniform? Here? Sez here? Okay,
5:10
Speaker 1: I'm gonna let you go talk to the officer. Okay,
5:13
Speaker 1: it just gets more curious. Last thing I want you
5:16
Speaker 1: to hear, Ann Emerson is our friends Saint Louis Fox
5:21
Speaker 1: to Chris Hey. August tenth, twenty sixteen. Carol Alfred was
5:27
Speaker 1: on the porch with her dog when Pam Hup drove by.
5:30
Speaker 1: It was captured on this surveillance video. She waved. I
5:33
Speaker 1: was like, okay, wave, you know. I thought maybe she
5:35
Speaker 1: was new in the neighborhood. And she drove down the street,
5:37
Speaker 1: came back, and she just pulled up behind my driveway
5:39
Speaker 1: and she just sat there and she was just staring
5:40
Speaker 1: at me. Alfred remembers bizarre questions starting with do you
5:44
Speaker 1: babysit and ending with an offer to make a thousand
5:47
Speaker 1: dollars if she'd go with Pam to do a nine
5:49
Speaker 1: one one segment for the show dateline if I help her.
5:52
Speaker 1: I can't bring my keys, my cigarettes, my cell phone,
5:55
Speaker 1: or my wallet because the producer does not like clutter.
5:58
Speaker 1: Alfred took her dog inside and wrabbed two knives. So
6:01
Speaker 1: I put a folding pocket knife up the sleeve and
6:03
Speaker 1: a kitchen knife from the front because I'm getting read
6:06
Speaker 1: get into a stranger's car, but I'm pretty sure sure
6:10
Speaker 1: is up to something illegal. Alfred did not even have
6:12
Speaker 1: shoes on when she got in Hub's car. Yeah, I
6:15
Speaker 1: was this close to her, rubbing elbows. I had the
6:18
Speaker 1: one hand in my pocket like on the handle, because
6:22
Speaker 1: if I had too, I was coming out this way
6:24
Speaker 1: with it. It's hup. Talked about where they'd be shooting
6:27
Speaker 1: the news segment. Alfred's gut told her the knives were
6:30
Speaker 1: not enough protection. Something to myself. Right about now, best
6:34
Speaker 1: excuse I can come up with to get out of
6:36
Speaker 1: this car. We get to about here, and that's when
6:40
Speaker 1: I told her that, you know, I got to go
6:43
Speaker 1: back and get some shoes, lock my door because of
6:46
Speaker 1: my husband's dog. Whatever. Right here's where she turned around
6:50
Speaker 1: at and took me back to my house. Okay, here's
6:54
Speaker 1: just a tip for the future. If you feel like
6:58
Speaker 1: you have to hide knives on your body to get
7:01
Speaker 1: in a car with someone, don't get in with me
7:04
Speaker 1: an All Star panel, asked You Wilcot, judge, Trild, lawyer
7:06
Speaker 1: anchor Court TV. You can find her at ask You
7:09
Speaker 1: Wilcott dot com. Cloyd Steiger thirty six years Seattle, PD,
7:13
Speaker 1: author of Seattle's Forgotten serial Killer, Gary Jane Grant at
7:18
Speaker 1: Cloyd Steiger dot com. Renowned psychoanalyst out of Beverly Hills.
7:22
Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany Marshall at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com, the
7:26
Speaker 1: medical examiner for the State of South Carolina, author of
7:29
Speaker 1: homicide investigation Field Guy, doctor Michelle Dupree. But now I
7:33
Speaker 1: need An Emerson w CIV ABC four Charles to explain
7:37
Speaker 1: to me how this woman Pam Hupp is driving around posing,
7:44
Speaker 1: as I think she said at Dateline, NBC producer, enticing
7:50
Speaker 1: people into her car. How does that fit with her
7:53
Speaker 1: obviously fake nine one one call when she shoots a
7:57
Speaker 1: quote and shrewder okay put them together for me. Ann Emerson.
8:02
Speaker 1: This is such an elaborate hoax and she's pulling from
8:06
Speaker 1: her resources. Honestly, you know, she's been under a lot
8:09
Speaker 1: of scrutiny with Dateline. She knew that they did these
8:13
Speaker 1: kind of elaborate sort of scenarios of re enactments, and
8:17
Speaker 1: she saw a way out. She saw a way to
8:22
Speaker 1: not only use what she knew about television to be
8:26
Speaker 1: able to start to give They had already been covering
8:28
Speaker 1: her and what she was up to. And now wait, wait,
8:32
Speaker 1: why are they covered? Why is Look if you see
8:36
Speaker 1: Dateline NBC picking through your trash, Okay, you better call
8:42
Speaker 1: a defense attorney right then, because they are experts at
8:47
Speaker 1: sniffing out a crime. All right. So you're telling me
8:51
Speaker 1: An Emerson w CIV that they're looking at her for
8:54
Speaker 1: some other crime, and she figures out a way to
8:57
Speaker 1: what get out of it all. She's looking for a
9:00
Speaker 1: way to pen that crime on and keep the heat
9:03
Speaker 1: off of her. The scrutiny was starting to start, was
9:06
Speaker 1: already coming in her direction full force for a crime
9:11
Speaker 1: that had been committed five years prior. And this was
9:14
Speaker 1: her best friend. Uh, I guess you're talking about the
9:20
Speaker 1: death of Betsy Faria. Yeah. Well, as a matter of fact,
9:25
Speaker 1: speaking of the death the murder of Betsy Faria, listen
9:31
Speaker 1: to this nine on one call Kenny nine one one
9:33
Speaker 1: is the location of your emergency, Okay, ma'am, Hello, Yes,
9:42
Speaker 1: I need you to take a couple of teep for
9:44
Speaker 1: us so I can see what's going on. What is
9:46
Speaker 1: the address where you need us to come? Okay? Who
9:52
Speaker 1: am I speaking with? Russell? What's going on there? To
10:05
Speaker 1: m hm? Okay Russell? I need you to colmt down, honey, Okay,
10:11
Speaker 1: I need you to calm down. Take a couple deep breasts.
10:13
Speaker 1: We're going to get somebody on the way there. Okay,
10:20
Speaker 1: what what did she do? Do you know? Okay? Okay,
10:30
Speaker 1: come down, honey. Is she breathing at all? She is
10:42
Speaker 1: not breathing? Time stories with Nancy Grace Brussel. Is there
11:12
Speaker 1: anybody that we can call for you? Okay Brussel, take
11:22
Speaker 1: a couple of deep breaths on Okay, Okay. What is
11:27
Speaker 1: your mom's name? I'm sorry, I can't understand your hun Lucy?
11:35
Speaker 1: And what's her last name? How old is your wife?
11:45
Speaker 1: Two forty two? Okay, and you're for sure she's not
11:51
Speaker 1: breathing right now? Okay? What is your mother's phone number?
11:57
Speaker 1: You are hearing a highly distraught I'm on one caller.
12:01
Speaker 1: That's Russ Pharia. Now his wife is Betsy Faria. But
12:07
Speaker 1: right then he's talking about his mom, missus Gumpenberger. Okay,
12:12
Speaker 1: an Emerson. I got so many dead bodies and plots
12:15
Speaker 1: and twists and turns. Let's just start where every investigation starts.
12:19
Speaker 1: Who died first? Well, it was Betsy Faria December twenty seventh,
12:24
Speaker 1: just a couple of days after Christmas in twenty eleven,
12:27
Speaker 1: she found stabbed fifty five times in her Missouri home.
12:33
Speaker 1: And from there we get twists and turns and wives
12:36
Speaker 1: and who was involved and who she was involved with.
12:39
Speaker 1: So let me understand, Betsy Faria, age forty three, is
12:44
Speaker 1: found stabbed dead. What don't you have fifty five stab wounds?
12:47
Speaker 1: Was that right? I tried, and they found they found
12:50
Speaker 1: the weapon in her neck. It was still in her neck.
12:52
Speaker 1: It was very griggly, extremely grizzly. Who at that same
12:57
Speaker 1: crime scene? Is there another dead body? No, there's a
13:00
Speaker 1: good body at that crime scene. From what I understand,
13:03
Speaker 1: it wasn't until a couple of years later when the mother,
13:08
Speaker 1: a woman named Shirley Newman, has passed away. There's no
13:13
Speaker 1: concerning this poor elderly lady had fallen over a balcony.
13:17
Speaker 1: She turns out to be Pamla Hup's mother. That's the
13:21
Speaker 1: second one, and that's in twenty thirteen. Okay, so we've
13:24
Speaker 1: got Betsy freastab dad with a knife in her neck.
13:27
Speaker 1: We've got Pam Hup's mother dead from falling over a
13:32
Speaker 1: what a railing A balcony railing from the third floor.
13:35
Speaker 1: They say that she just fell out, but of course
13:39
Speaker 1: there are so many inconsistencies and the work that's been
13:43
Speaker 1: done on a journalistic level to try and recreate that
13:47
Speaker 1: ball has been I mean you have to just say
13:49
Speaker 1: it's impossible. I mean the way they showed how that
13:53
Speaker 1: what should have to be like an Olympic gymnast to
13:56
Speaker 1: get over that rail. Okay, who is Louis Guppenberger? That
14:00
Speaker 1: another dead body? That is that's that's number three and
14:02
Speaker 1: this is where she where we start wondering do we
14:05
Speaker 1: have a serial? Let me guess, is that the quote intruder?
14:09
Speaker 1: That's the intruder thirty three year old man? And I'm
14:12
Speaker 1: saying that with big quoties. Okay, who's Lewis Gumpenberger. He's
14:16
Speaker 1: a thirty three year old man. He has some mental
14:19
Speaker 1: deficiencies from a serious car accident that he was in
14:22
Speaker 1: much many years earlier, childlike as well as how he
14:26
Speaker 1: was described by his family and he ends up dead
14:30
Speaker 1: in Pamela Hupp's home. Oh, hold on, I've got dead
14:33
Speaker 1: bodies coming out of my ears. As she Willcot judge, trial, lawyer,
14:37
Speaker 1: anchor court TV. You can find her as she Wilcott
14:39
Speaker 1: to come. This woman, pam Hupp, everybody around her, they
14:43
Speaker 1: just die. They fall over railings, they get staffed fifty
14:48
Speaker 1: five times that nobody knows what happened. And then one
14:52
Speaker 1: gets gun down because he's in her home. Then you've
14:55
Speaker 1: got a live victim on her ports when Hup drives
14:58
Speaker 1: up and tells her she's dateline producer and to come
15:01
Speaker 1: along with her if she wants to make some money,
15:03
Speaker 1: but she can't bring her car keys, or her cell
15:06
Speaker 1: phone or her walk because producers don't like clutter. Okay,
15:10
Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany Marshall, I know I'm just painting with a
15:14
Speaker 1: broad stroke, but there's no doubt my mind skilled. All
15:16
Speaker 1: three bodies are piling up around this woman. Well, Nancy,
15:20
Speaker 1: have you ever known somebody where their whole reason for
15:23
Speaker 1: living is some kind of nefarious purpose and that's all
15:28
Speaker 1: they think about. Maybe it's a man who continually prays
15:33
Speaker 1: on women because he wants to get money from them,
15:36
Speaker 1: or a con artist who will approach certain people at
15:41
Speaker 1: work so he can get them to put life insurance
15:44
Speaker 1: policies into his name. Some people have one singular crime
15:49
Speaker 1: in mind and everything around them is organized around that crime.
15:54
Speaker 1: Let's think of a pedophile, where all they think about
15:56
Speaker 1: a children. So maybe they hang out of the school
15:59
Speaker 1: bus stop. Maybe they become pastors, maybe they become teachers.
16:04
Speaker 1: I think what we're going to learn about Pamela Hup
16:07
Speaker 1: is she had a singular motive that drove her life.
16:11
Speaker 1: This motive was like an obsession. But what was it?
16:16
Speaker 1: What was she able to get from all of these victims.
16:20
Speaker 1: I think that if you follow that trail, we will
16:24
Speaker 1: understand the psyche of Pamela Hup. You know, I'm listening
16:28
Speaker 1: again to Russfaria calling nine one one, and I'm telling you,
16:32
Speaker 1: I'm just from what I heard that's real. He has
16:36
Speaker 1: nothing to do with this. His anguish and I've never
16:38
Speaker 1: met the man, but I'm telling you his anguish is real.
16:43
Speaker 1: Taken Listen to what the medical examiner says about Betsy
16:49
Speaker 1: faria stabbing death. Listen to this. Two days after Christmas
16:54
Speaker 1: twenty eleven, Russfaria called nine one one said he thought
16:59
Speaker 1: his wife, Betsy old herself. A medical examiner said she
17:06
Speaker 1: was stabbed fifty five times, her arms nearly severed, most
17:10
Speaker 1: of the stabbings after she was dead. A crime of passion.
17:13
Speaker 1: When you stabbed somebody over fifty times, it's usually a
17:17
Speaker 1: crime of passion, a husband or wife. I felt right
17:19
Speaker 1: away this was Russ, the immediate suspect, the husband Russpharia.
17:24
Speaker 1: For the first time. You're hearing and seeing evidence likenine
17:28
Speaker 1: one table and interrogations. You have a blue dad over
17:31
Speaker 1: twenty five times. Oh my god, no, five times, over
17:38
Speaker 1: twenty five times. And they're not done yet. They're still
17:41
Speaker 1: they're still counting. The major case squad questioned him for days.
17:45
Speaker 1: God has in this room with over right now, and
17:48
Speaker 1: God knows that I did not do this. He did
17:50
Speaker 1: not back down. I did not do this. I did
17:54
Speaker 1: not do it. You are hearing the husband, Russpharia, defending himself.
17:59
Speaker 1: But I want you to listen to tell me what
18:01
Speaker 1: you think about this night one we'll call. Listen to
18:04
Speaker 1: his voice. Wrestle around the way, hunh okay, it'll be
18:28
Speaker 1: there shortly. Is there anybody else there in the house
18:33
Speaker 1: with you? Wrestle, take a couple of deep breaths. Honey, Well,
18:54
Speaker 1: I don't know about you, but I don't know how
18:55
Speaker 1: if he's an actor, he deserves an oscar because sounds
19:00
Speaker 1: real to me. But according to her family, According to
19:05
Speaker 1: Betsy Faria's family, he had about one hundred and fifty
19:09
Speaker 1: thousand motives for murder. Russ's motive for murder did not
19:14
Speaker 1: come out, but Betsy's family believes he did have motive.
19:17
Speaker 1: Betsy's sister told me that she believes Russ found out
19:21
Speaker 1: that Betsy was making life insurance plans crime stories with
19:38
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Russ's motive for murder did not come out,
19:46
Speaker 1: but Betsy's family believes he did have motive. Betsy's sister
19:51
Speaker 1: told me that she believes Russ found out that Betsy
19:54
Speaker 1: was making life insurance plans. Tell me about some of
19:56
Speaker 1: these plans that she was making. She was planning on
19:58
Speaker 1: making some videos to say say things to her her
20:02
Speaker 1: daughters during milestones of their lives, and also parcel out
20:05
Speaker 1: the proceeds of her life insurance at those same milestones.
20:08
Speaker 1: You know, X thousand dollars when one graduates from college,
20:12
Speaker 1: you know ten thousand here to buy a car. That
20:14
Speaker 1: sort of thing. So the insurance proceeds was more about
20:16
Speaker 1: leaving a lasting legacy, that the money would be used
20:19
Speaker 1: for a positive, lasting memory. Right, Well, let's back it up, guys.
20:22
Speaker 1: Just then, though you were hearing from our friends at
20:24
Speaker 1: Fox Too. That was reporter Chris Hayes speaking with Robert
20:30
Speaker 1: Patrick to Ann Emerson WCIV, ABC four Charleston, Betsy free
20:36
Speaker 1: As a murder was so brutal. What can you tell
20:39
Speaker 1: me about the crime scene and what does it tell
20:41
Speaker 1: us about her killer? Well, you know, the crime scene
20:45
Speaker 1: was in Betsy Frea's house and basically to get stopped
20:50
Speaker 1: fifty five times. They say that she was also stabbed.
20:53
Speaker 1: After the facts, she was stabbed in the neck. There
20:56
Speaker 1: was a weapon found in our neck. They found all
21:00
Speaker 1: of these indications that it was obviously a brutal, a
21:04
Speaker 1: grizzly crime, but they certainly were setting it up control.
21:09
Speaker 1: The interesting thing though, a couple of interesting things. They
21:11
Speaker 1: found some slippers and this is one of the pieces
21:15
Speaker 1: of event of evidence they really used to go after
21:18
Speaker 1: Rascaria her husband with this, and that was a pair
21:21
Speaker 1: of slippers that were found in the closet and they
21:25
Speaker 1: had blood splattered on them. After they really started looking
21:29
Speaker 1: at those slippers, and a lot of people had put
21:31
Speaker 1: some their two cents into us. Those slippers didn't make sense,
21:35
Speaker 1: and we're not we're not working with the evidence, but
21:38
Speaker 1: for whatever purposes, those were the slippers that helped convict
21:43
Speaker 1: him the first time around. To doctor Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst
21:46
Speaker 1: and Beverly Hills at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com, Doctor
21:49
Speaker 1: Bethany was the crime scene to tell you, especially the
21:53
Speaker 1: post mortem attack, Betsy's arms were almost severed. Well, it
21:58
Speaker 1: tells me that the perfect trader was trying to make
22:02
Speaker 1: it look like a crime of passion. And remember, all
22:06
Speaker 1: of the dead bodies in our story have in common
22:10
Speaker 1: some very elaborate dramatic ruse to lure in the victims. Right,
22:16
Speaker 1: Hup tries to get somebody sitting on her porch to
22:19
Speaker 1: get in his car. Hup has the nine one one
22:22
Speaker 1: call where she says and intruders in her house. Now
22:26
Speaker 1: we have one of Hup's best friends who's terminally ill,
22:31
Speaker 1: stabbed multiple times, her arms almost severed, as if it's
22:35
Speaker 1: a crime of passion. It makes me wonder if there's
22:38
Speaker 1: some crazy, obsessed person wandering around out there who has
22:44
Speaker 1: some motive for Frea's death, but wants to frame it
22:48
Speaker 1: as if her husband killed her. Betsy free'stab fifty five times,
22:52
Speaker 1: her husband immediately becoming the prime suspect. She's founded in
22:56
Speaker 1: her home just two days after Christmas and small to
22:59
Speaker 1: him Missouri, Troy, Missouri. Her husband Russ, finds her body
23:05
Speaker 1: in a pool of blood when he comes home from
23:06
Speaker 1: game night with friends. He calls nine one one. He
23:10
Speaker 1: believes his wife had killed herself because of her cancer prognosis.
23:16
Speaker 1: She had spoken of suicide in the past because of
23:19
Speaker 1: the cancer. He sees slashes on her wrists and a
23:22
Speaker 1: kitchen knife sticking out of her neck. He had no idea,
23:26
Speaker 1: according to him, that she had been murdered. He says,
23:31
Speaker 1: everybody loved Betsy. She was so positive, she made a
23:34
Speaker 1: smile all the time. He says, Anne Emerson that he
23:38
Speaker 1: spoke to her at five pm that day. He says
23:42
Speaker 1: she told him pam Hupp was giving her a ride home.
23:49
Speaker 1: Was the husband ever prosecuted for her murder? Anne, He
23:53
Speaker 1: was absolutely prosecuted and sent to prison for three years.
23:58
Speaker 1: Ruspharia Went was convicted of killing Betsy. Pamela Hup stayed
24:03
Speaker 1: out of that fray because there was enough investigation that
24:07
Speaker 1: was going on around Rasparia, because there are a lot
24:12
Speaker 1: of people who said their marriage wasn't perfect, everything wasn't fantastic.
24:15
Speaker 1: So there was just enough conversation going on during these
24:19
Speaker 1: investigations that they kept looking at Raspaia and they were
24:22
Speaker 1: not looking at Pamela Hup, who is the one that
24:24
Speaker 1: actually dropped her off at the house. He goes to
24:28
Speaker 1: prison for three years and a new trial is ordered
24:33
Speaker 1: because there's an incredible piece of evidence that comes into play.
24:37
Speaker 1: There was never allowed to go in front of the jury.
24:39
Speaker 1: And this is you know, I think when they kind
24:42
Speaker 1: of done a little Monday morning quarterbacking on this. Can't
24:46
Speaker 1: believe the jury didn't hear. It's hard to believe they
24:49
Speaker 1: didn't hear this piece of evidence that would have just
24:53
Speaker 1: sent all eyes going straight towards Hup, and he didn't.
24:58
Speaker 1: So that and what is what is the evidence? It
25:02
Speaker 1: was one hundred and fifty thousand dollars life insurance policy
25:04
Speaker 1: that Betsy Faria had signed over to her friend pam
25:07
Speaker 1: La Houp. Well, as a matter of fact, based on
25:10
Speaker 1: Anne Emerson, WCIV is just saying I want you to hear.
25:13
Speaker 1: Fox to reporter Chris Hayes, Pam Hopp was the beneficiary
25:16
Speaker 1: of a one hundred and fifty thousand dollars life insurance
25:18
Speaker 1: policy paid out after the stabbing death of Betsy Faria.
25:22
Speaker 1: A Lincoln County judge did not allow a jury to
25:24
Speaker 1: hear about Hupp's financial windfall or the fact that Frea's
25:27
Speaker 1: life insurance policy was signed over into Hupp's name just
25:30
Speaker 1: days before the murder. A jury then convicted Frea's husband, Russ.
25:34
Speaker 1: In the court record, Hupp first claimed she was made
25:36
Speaker 1: beneficiary to help Betsy's daughter. Now Hupp is changing her story,
25:41
Speaker 1: saying in this newly filed temporary restraining order the money
25:45
Speaker 1: belongs to her. Now another judge is stepping in. A
25:48
Speaker 1: Saint Charles County judge just granted this temporary restraining order
25:52
Speaker 1: against Pam hop or anyone acting on her behalf. They're
25:55
Speaker 1: prohibited from removing funds from their bank accounts or selling
25:59
Speaker 1: their O'Fallon Miss Jory home to Anne Emerson WCIV, ABC
26:03
Speaker 1: four Charleston, what can you tell me about newly released
26:06
Speaker 1: recordings of Hub's phone conversations. She has documented her conversations
26:12
Speaker 1: with her husband Mark up in prison. Methodically, this is
26:16
Speaker 1: a woman. I'm not a psychologist, but boy, doesn't seem
26:20
Speaker 1: like she's building a case for herself as she goes
26:24
Speaker 1: through as a woman in control, as a woman calculated.
26:28
Speaker 1: And what we heard in these caps that release, these
26:31
Speaker 1: conversations she had with her husband, it's all about gaining
26:35
Speaker 1: that self control and her image. It's it's remarkable that
26:39
Speaker 1: she keeps on going back to how she is protecting
26:45
Speaker 1: other people in her life. The coolness of the whole
26:48
Speaker 1: conversations that she has is the really really speaks to
26:53
Speaker 1: her ability to orchestrate all of these different scenarios that
26:59
Speaker 1: have been going on on and she just doesn't let up.
27:02
Speaker 1: It's there's a lot of money in her mind that
27:05
Speaker 1: she can This is part of how she's playing this out.
27:09
Speaker 1: And she understands life insurance policies. She worked in the
27:13
Speaker 1: business of life insurance companies. She knows how these things work.
27:17
Speaker 1: And this isn't the only life insurance policy that she
27:21
Speaker 1: could gain them if this person died, I mean her
27:25
Speaker 1: mom to Chloyd Steiger thirty six years Seattle, PD. What
27:29
Speaker 1: about these newly released phone conversations, What are they and
27:33
Speaker 1: what do they show. Well, she's having recorded jail conversations
27:36
Speaker 1: talking to her husband, and he seems to not understand
27:39
Speaker 1: why she'd taken Alfred Lee or basically plead guilty, and
27:43
Speaker 1: she says things like, oh, I just wanted to spare
27:46
Speaker 1: my family an ugly trial. What innocent person would plead
27:51
Speaker 1: out to a murder just to spare their family from
27:54
Speaker 1: an ugly trial. It's ridiculous. And she's so calm about
27:57
Speaker 1: it and everything. And I'd like to, speaking of calmness,
27:59
Speaker 1: I want to go back of the nine one one
28:00
Speaker 1: calls to juxtapose her to that of rus Faria. When
28:05
Speaker 1: Russ is calling no One when you were right, he's distraught,
28:08
Speaker 1: he can't even give his mother's name. But when Pam
28:11
Speaker 1: makes a nine one one call, she's all distraught and
28:14
Speaker 1: screaming until she says, is anyone with you? And she says,
28:16
Speaker 1: almost a conversation, oh I have my dogs with me.
28:19
Speaker 1: She's called again, that's not the way it is. You're
28:21
Speaker 1: either hyped up all the time or you're not. And
28:23
Speaker 1: so she's obviously feeding that call, and it would just
28:26
Speaker 1: it's just unreal. It's a great call for the prosecutor.
28:29
Speaker 1: There's so many dead bodies. It's hard to keep up
28:32
Speaker 1: with them. You've got Betsy Faria, her best friend with
28:35
Speaker 1: a life insurance policy, stabbed fifty five times. The husband
28:39
Speaker 1: gets the fall on that and goes to jail. You've
28:41
Speaker 1: got the death of the mom, and you have the
28:45
Speaker 1: death of the so called intruder Lewis Gumpenburger. As she Willcott,
28:51
Speaker 1: she agrees to an Alfred play to quote say, her
28:55
Speaker 1: family a trial. What's an Alfred play? Ashley? First of all,
28:59
Speaker 1: I think she's crazy, see like a fox. And then
29:01
Speaker 1: second and Alfred plea, Nancy has win for future crimes.
29:06
Speaker 1: The guilty plea cannot be used against the defendant. Right,
29:10
Speaker 1: so she's saying, I'm not going to admit my guilt.
29:13
Speaker 1: I'm gonna not say that I did it, but I
29:17
Speaker 1: will enter an Alfred plea. And the issue I have
29:21
Speaker 1: with this is in this case, I think she's trying
29:24
Speaker 1: to do it so it cannot be used against her
29:28
Speaker 1: for these other acts. So Anne Emerson, what does she
29:33
Speaker 1: say in a nutshell on the recorded phone calls? Well,
29:36
Speaker 1: she says that she's not doing it to save her family.
29:39
Speaker 1: She doesn't want her family to suffer through any more.
29:43
Speaker 1: Than they have to there, she's kind of throwing it
29:46
Speaker 1: out there to her husband. Her husband, Mark Hoppu's been
29:49
Speaker 1: talking to her throughout this whole ordeal, is stunned. From
29:54
Speaker 1: what we understand, he's stunned into silence because he didn't
29:56
Speaker 1: expect her to see an Alfred plea. It's actually, and
30:00
Speaker 1: what I understand, pretty uncommon to do something like this.
30:04
Speaker 1: But now the things they're starting to line up that well,
30:07
Speaker 1: now if she does this, not only does she not
30:09
Speaker 1: have to that that information will not be possibly put
30:14
Speaker 1: in for maybe if Pamela Hup's case gets reinvestigated, as
30:17
Speaker 1: of course it's going to be now, or her mother's
30:20
Speaker 1: case being reinvestigated just can't get brought up. But also
30:25
Speaker 1: she just avoided the death penalty. In Missouri Crime Stories
30:44
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace, pam Hut drives all over Saint Charles
30:52
Speaker 1: County looking for someone she could get in her car
30:56
Speaker 1: convince them to make a fake nine one one call
30:59
Speaker 1: so she could execute the person while they were on
31:04
Speaker 1: the phone with nine one one. Okay, that is her
31:11
Speaker 1: attempt to take blame off herself. How was it supposed
31:16
Speaker 1: to work? And in a nutshell, well, she has figured
31:21
Speaker 1: out a way to get that scrutiny off of her.
31:25
Speaker 1: She now looks like this victim of someone who's trying
31:29
Speaker 1: to hurt her, and that person she actually is trying
31:32
Speaker 1: to put it back on the husband who has now
31:36
Speaker 1: been released from prison acquitted for the crime of killing
31:40
Speaker 1: his wife. Now they're wondering who's killed Betsy Faria and
31:45
Speaker 1: Gonthenberger becomes her fall guy. As now this has turned
31:50
Speaker 1: into an elaborate hoax that Russ Paria, her best friend's
31:56
Speaker 1: husband who's been acquitted, is now trying to come after
32:00
Speaker 1: Pamela Hut to dagor Bethany Marshall. This woman clearly a
32:05
Speaker 1: serial killer. Pam Hut allegedly takes a lot of the
32:09
Speaker 1: plate stranger Louis Guppenberger in some crazy attempt to frame
32:15
Speaker 1: the husband for killing his wife Betsy. How diabolical is
32:21
Speaker 1: her plan to throw police off her trail Nancy. She
32:25
Speaker 1: has the mentality of a serial killer and more. I mean,
32:28
Speaker 1: if there are three bodies that's in succession with each other,
32:33
Speaker 1: that's serial murder, right. I think first of all, there's
32:37
Speaker 1: something about killing people that is very delightful for her
32:40
Speaker 1: and gives her a sense of power. I think. Secondly,
32:43
Speaker 1: like a serial killer, she trolls for her victims. I mean,
32:48
Speaker 1: you ever, we cover all the time these serial killers
32:51
Speaker 1: where there's almost one person who got away. The woman
32:53
Speaker 1: who was sitting on the porch, got in her car
32:56
Speaker 1: and then got back out is the one who got away,
32:58
Speaker 1: right because she potentially would have been murdered. Unlike serial killers,
33:03
Speaker 1: where the motivation is usually sexual fadaism, her motivation was
33:07
Speaker 1: a life insurance policy, and in order to get the
33:11
Speaker 1: life insurance policy, she was highly manipulative. Even on those
33:15
Speaker 1: jail house phone calls that were recorded, she's trying to
33:19
Speaker 1: manipulate her own husband. What's interesting, though, is she, in
33:24
Speaker 1: some ways, as Ashley Wilcott says, she's crazy like a fox,
33:28
Speaker 1: but in others she's very stupid. Like most criminal she
33:31
Speaker 1: has lack of cause and effect thinking. She has no
33:34
Speaker 1: insight into how she appears to others. She actually thinks
33:38
Speaker 1: she's kind of low functioning as well as clever and manipulative.
33:43
Speaker 1: You know, the suspicious death of Hub's mother. Surely I
33:49
Speaker 1: don't really buy to you, doctor Michelle Dupree, South Carolina
33:53
Speaker 1: medical examiner, that she fell from her own balcony. What
33:58
Speaker 1: would you expect to find, Well, Nancy, I would expect
34:02
Speaker 1: one thing. Typically, balcony is too tall for you to fall,
34:06
Speaker 1: so I would really want to see that crumb scene.
34:08
Speaker 1: I'd want to see how tall she is. I'd want
34:10
Speaker 1: to see where the balcony is. And then of course
34:13
Speaker 1: we have to live the injuries a fall. From the
34:15
Speaker 1: three stories, you are going to have massive injuries, massive
34:19
Speaker 1: broken bones, and where she falls and how those bones
34:23
Speaker 1: are both broken are also going to play into this.
34:26
Speaker 1: To you and Emerson WCIV ABC for Charleston, tell me
34:30
Speaker 1: about the death of Pam Houp's own mother and why
34:34
Speaker 1: would she kill her own mother. Well, you know one
34:38
Speaker 1: thing about this kind scene is they when they sort
34:41
Speaker 1: of reenacted it and you could see sort of that
34:44
Speaker 1: actual scene after it had happened, the top railing, just
34:48
Speaker 1: to put it out there that top railing was still intact.
34:51
Speaker 1: In fact, it looks like somebody and they actually showed
34:53
Speaker 1: how someone could kick those railings and get the same
34:58
Speaker 1: level of damage to the railings as if what they
35:02
Speaker 1: were saying and originally that she had actually gone through
35:05
Speaker 1: the bottom part of the railings without touching the top railing.
35:09
Speaker 1: So you have that inconsistency right there. That's so hard
35:13
Speaker 1: for to understand. But why did she go after her mom? Well,
35:16
Speaker 1: if she is as ruthless as they allege, then she
35:22
Speaker 1: was looking for money and there was a life insurance
35:23
Speaker 1: policy there as well. Now did she actually think out
35:27
Speaker 1: of that life insurance policy? That I think is still
35:29
Speaker 1: up for a question, because I've seen reports that she
35:33
Speaker 1: actually didn't make any that much money off of the
35:35
Speaker 1: life insurance. But we don't know what happened behind his
35:38
Speaker 1: closed doors with her mom. What did her mom know?
35:40
Speaker 1: What did she not know? We also know that Saint
35:43
Speaker 1: Louis County Chief Medical Examiner Mary Case change the manner
35:47
Speaker 1: of death from him Hup's mom from accidental to undetermined.
35:53
Speaker 1: That's a big deal. Hup's mother, Shirley Newman found dead
35:57
Speaker 1: below the balcony of your senior Apart aren't meant. Two
36:01
Speaker 1: police investigators and cases colleague deemed it an accent. But
36:07
Speaker 1: then they take another look after Hup fatally shoots an
36:12
Speaker 1: unknown mentally disabled man in an elaborate plot to divert
36:17
Speaker 1: attention from herself when she was being investigated for that
36:22
Speaker 1: fatal stabbing of her friend. I don't know how she
36:26
Speaker 1: thought that would throw off cops because somebody dies in
36:30
Speaker 1: her home. But to Cloyd Steiger, how do you believe
36:34
Speaker 1: that authorities could figure out that Hupp's mother, Shirley Newman's
36:39
Speaker 1: death was not an accident. Well, I see the pictures
36:43
Speaker 1: of that rail. I mean, I think what death investigator
36:46
Speaker 1: would look at that and so, yeah, that could happen.
36:50
Speaker 1: It couldn't. I don't know how much this woman wade,
36:52
Speaker 1: but it took a lot of force they knock out
36:54
Speaker 1: those lower vertical posts in that rail, and to go
36:59
Speaker 1: underneath that all three flours. I would have been skeptical
37:02
Speaker 1: of just looking at it, and you would think even
37:03
Speaker 1: a patrol officer would go, what, I don't think that's
37:06
Speaker 1: right because it doesn't look like that could happen. So
37:08
Speaker 1: I'm surprised they, as quickly as they did called it
37:11
Speaker 1: an accident instead of undetermined from the beginning. I'm glad
37:14
Speaker 1: they're looking at it more. But it it just doesn't say, well,
37:17
Speaker 1: I mean, isn't it true this woman had arthritis? It
37:23
Speaker 1: doesn't make sense. Doctor Bethany Marshall, Shirley Newman had arthritis,
37:28
Speaker 1: and I find it very difficult to believe she could
37:30
Speaker 1: just leap over that rail at a senior home and die. Well,
37:34
Speaker 1: first of all, if you have lived that long life
37:37
Speaker 1: and you're not suicidal, there's no reason you are going
37:40
Speaker 1: to jump off a balcony. That railing is high. Someone
37:44
Speaker 1: had to have picked her up and thrown her over.
37:47
Speaker 1: Apparently she had ambient in her system as well. I
37:50
Speaker 1: don't know how that plays in, but I will say
37:53
Speaker 1: I once treated a female patient who was obsessed with
37:56
Speaker 1: the life insurance policy that her mother had gotten. So
38:00
Speaker 1: she came to therapy to emplore me to call the
38:02
Speaker 1: mother and give the money to her. She actually sent
38:06
Speaker 1: a letter to the local police department saying, I dar
38:09
Speaker 1: as if it was from her mother, saying I am
38:13
Speaker 1: so sorry. I took a life insurance policy from my
38:16
Speaker 1: husband that was meant for my daughter and I didn't
38:18
Speaker 1: give it to her. So I know it's a little convoluted,
38:21
Speaker 1: but the mindset of this patient was that she stalked
38:25
Speaker 1: the mother for the money. So I would imagine hup
38:28
Speaker 1: had a long history of stalking all of these people
38:32
Speaker 1: from whom she was trying to procure life insurance policy.
38:35
Speaker 1: I've got something to stop everybody in your tracks, and
38:37
Speaker 1: a videotape interview before the first trial of her friend
38:41
Speaker 1: Russell Faria, remember he got framed on his wife's murder.
38:45
Speaker 1: Hut was discussing the possibility that defense lawyers for russ
38:49
Speaker 1: would try to blame her, and she told a detective
38:52
Speaker 1: and I quote, my mom's worth half a million that
38:56
Speaker 1: I get when she dies. This is in a recorded interview.
39:00
Speaker 1: If I really wanted money, there's an easier way than
39:02
Speaker 1: trying to combat somebody that's physically stronger than me. A
39:06
Speaker 1: half a million dollars including ten grand life insurance and
39:10
Speaker 1: about three hundred thousand dollars of other investments, plus other assets.
39:15
Speaker 1: And Emerson, there's a motive right there for killing her
39:18
Speaker 1: own mother. Shirley Newman, Hello, and it sure is, it
39:22
Speaker 1: absolutely is. And when she is starting to think about
39:26
Speaker 1: these life insurance policies, this is what she does for
39:28
Speaker 1: a living, she is, this is her expertise. She's been
39:33
Speaker 1: writing life insurance policies and working for these companies for years.
39:37
Speaker 1: And there's even some evidence that she forged her name
39:41
Speaker 1: on a couple of life insurance policies way back when.
39:44
Speaker 1: So now you're you've got these allegations that maybe she
39:48
Speaker 1: under she's a smart lady, and she's looking at her
39:51
Speaker 1: mom saying, wait a minute, I'm right, there is more
39:55
Speaker 1: out there. There are more ways for me to So
39:58
Speaker 1: how was it and and how was it that she
40:01
Speaker 1: got Betsy Faria's life insurance. Shouldn't that have gone to
40:05
Speaker 1: Betsy's family? Well, you know, that's a whole complicated story
40:08
Speaker 1: in itself. Where she had her sign over her life
40:11
Speaker 1: insurance policies, she gained her trust, she gained her her adoration,
40:17
Speaker 1: and said, I will take care of your kids. I
40:19
Speaker 1: will make sure that they get the money they need
40:22
Speaker 1: when they need it. There was a lot of supposedly
40:26
Speaker 1: concerned about whether or not Russ would you know, bring
40:30
Speaker 1: that in And why did she take an Alfred play
40:33
Speaker 1: on Louis gouvin Meyer's murder. She took an Alfred please,
40:37
Speaker 1: so that she didn't have to put that evidence towards
40:41
Speaker 1: another trial if she ended up getting in trouble for
40:43
Speaker 1: what happened to Betsy. Exactly, she's got a little Exactly
40:47
Speaker 1: explain that Ash willcott Alfred please specifically cannot be used
40:51
Speaker 1: against you and an Alfred plead the defendant is not
40:54
Speaker 1: admitting guilt, Nancy. That's the key. They are not saying
40:58
Speaker 1: that they did it, but rather they're deciding, Okay, it's
41:02
Speaker 1: more advantageous for me to enter this plea, to get
41:05
Speaker 1: through this, to deal with it, than to go to trial.
41:08
Speaker 1: But the advantage of an Alfred plea is it cannot
41:11
Speaker 1: be used against a defendant in any other crime. Another question.
41:15
Speaker 1: The plea deal in the Gumpenburger murder takes the death
41:20
Speaker 1: penalty off the table when she took that Alfred play
41:23
Speaker 1: on Gumpenberger, the menally ill person. But what about when
41:27
Speaker 1: she's tried for Betsy Faria's murdyr Anne, Will she face
41:31
Speaker 1: the death penalty? She could? I mean, that's a totally
41:35
Speaker 1: different trial for for what we see. I mean, yeah,
41:38
Speaker 1: she might get off for one, but she did not necessarily.
41:42
Speaker 1: But now the evidence is not as strong because because
41:46
Speaker 1: of the Alfred Please, she's been able to get some
41:48
Speaker 1: of her this evidence off of the table. So if
41:51
Speaker 1: it goes back to trial, she certainly is sitting there.
41:54
Speaker 1: What do you mean evidence is off the table? Well,
41:57
Speaker 1: she has, she's admitted guilt with actually having to to
42:04
Speaker 1: deal with it. It's not something that can be readmitted
42:06
Speaker 1: into evidence. Okay, hold on, just a moment to Ashley
42:09
Speaker 1: Wilcot on an alphad plea. When you enter this alpha
42:14
Speaker 1: plea and you say I'm guilty, what actually you take
42:18
Speaker 1: your sentence, but you don't say I'm guilty. The facts
42:21
Speaker 1: in the alpha case I believe can still be brought
42:24
Speaker 1: into evidence, just your plea cannot. I would agree with you,
42:27
Speaker 1: the facts in that case can be brought into evidence
42:30
Speaker 1: against you in other cases. I completely agree with that,
42:33
Speaker 1: but not the fact that you've entered any kind of
42:36
Speaker 1: agreement or plea or admission or it's not an admission,
42:41
Speaker 1: but that you've entered a plea in that case. We
42:44
Speaker 1: wait as justice unfolds and the brutal murder of Betsy
42:48
Speaker 1: far Rhea Nancy Grace Crime story signing off Goodbye Fact