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Marrying Science and Spirit with Dr. Robyn McKay · Reclaiming Consciousness

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Reclaiming Consciousness.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: My name is Elise Bassine, spiritual mentor, breathwork practitioner, and owner and CEO of Elise Breeds.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: For many years, our consciousness has been hijacked by societal and cultural programming, religion, the media, and familial and ancestral trauma.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: Right now, during this epic time in history, people are waking up, realizing who they really are, and reclaiming the pieces of their consciousness that they unknowingly gave away.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: This podcast is an exploration of how so many spectacular humans are leading the way in exiting the matrix and reclaiming who they really are and what they're capable of.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: In this show, you'll meet exceptional people who are paving the way in raising consciousness and creating a new way of living on this earth.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: Get ready to go deep.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: Now let's dive in.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: Hi everyone.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome back to the show.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_02: This week we have a really fabulous guest.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: She is one of my favorite people, actually.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: I've just been fascinated by her work and also have worked with her, which you'll hear me talk about on the show.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: But this week we have Dr.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_02: Robin McKay on the show, and her and I have so much in common.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_02: She has a PhD in psychology and she's a coach.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: And we talk about trauma and her story and how she really is a master in marrying the science aspect of things and the spiritual aspect of things.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: So I think you're really, really gonna love this episode and her perspective.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I also talk about the neo assessment that I did with her, which is a psychological evaluation/slash test that measures your spiritual intelligence and emotional intelligence.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_02: And it really was incredibly life-changing for me and really allowed me to own some of the things that I kind of knew were true about me, but to see it kind of scientifically laid out on a chart really allowed me to embrace some of my gifts in a deeper way.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_02: So if you feel drawn to do that, definitely reach out to Robin and follow her on social media.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_02: We'll link everything below, but I know you're gonna love this episode.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: And then also just a reminder: this is the last week to get the early bird pricing on the manifestation magic retreat.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_02: Early bird pricing ends on Sunday.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_02: So if you haven't heard yet about the retreat, it is gonna be a really powerful experience in the Catskill Mountains in upstate New York at a retreat center called Menla.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_02: And it is centered around creating a portal to manifestation.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_02: So you're gonna receive a 45-minute Akashic record session with me before the retreat, where we get really clear on what energies you are calling in.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: And then at the retreat, we're gonna create a portal to manifestation, and you're gonna receive two group breath work and healing activations with me, a sound healing, very transformational sound healing with Andrea Donnelly.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, there's also gonna be a movement class led by Dahlia Brown, who's amazing.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: Two yoga classes, a bonfire, a hike, there is a spa there, a pool, um, and all of the meals are included.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a really gonna be a fabulous and life-changing experience.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_02: So if you're feeling the pull, definitely reach out to me, or you can just go on my website, elisebreeds.com, and there is a button on the home page that gives you all of the details.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: So the early bread pricing ends on the 15th.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_02: So definitely don't sleep on that.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_02: This is gonna be a life-changing experience.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_02: So without further ado, enjoy the show.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_02: Hi everyone, welcome back to Reclaiming Consciousness.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_02: I am so excited for today's guest.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_02: We are already started having a great conversation, so I just know it's gonna keep going from there.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_02: So today we have with us the very spectacular Robin McKay, and she is an award-winning psychologist, multi-six figure entrepreneur, and an executive coach to top leaders in Fortune 500 companies and entertainment.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_02: She's also a leading expert in the field of spiritual intelligence and builds bridges between reason and intuition, science and spirit, and her clients' heads and hearts.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the show, Robin.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: I love hearing that bio.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for thank you for inviting me.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_02: I know, isn't it always so fun to hear your bio?
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_02: You're like, oh, I did that.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, I've been reflecting recently.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm doing some work right now with Intel Corp on emotional intelligence, burnout recovery, that kind of thing.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: And way back in the day when I was getting my PhD, I had this vision of going into organizations and doing transformational work.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: So as I'm sitting there with this virtual room full of people from Intel yesterday, I was just struck by the fact that I'm actually doing something that all those years ago I had envisioned.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I wanted to send all of that hope and confirmation back to the girl who I was, because there were some, you know, when you're in getting your graduate education, there's some struggles and some dark days and some days that you question what you're doing.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm in a place in my career and in my work where I'm actually living out the vision that I have had for myself all those years ago.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: So it's pretty special.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: And it's cool to hear that, even though I, of course, was involved in writing that bio, it just is a reminder, not just for me, but for everybody, that what you envision is actually possible.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_02: And not only that, it's like what you're meant to do.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like I think we think sometimes these like visions we have or dreams that we have are like far-fetched, but I feel like it's actually your your intuition or your higher self just showing you like, here's where you're going, here's what you're meant for.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: So, and I love what you said about like sending that back to that version of you.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_02: Cause I always will tell my clients to like tap into their future self and like ask them, you know, what their advice would be or whatever.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: So it's kind of the same thing.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: It is.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: And because there's no time and no space, we can do that in an instant.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I can remember times in grad school where I would feel a wave of encouragement or a wave of hope or a wave of light that would come through.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know at the time where it was coming from, but now I do.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so now in the current version of myself, when I feel that wave of hope or that wave of encouragement or that light, I know that it's my future self, a future version of myself, saying, just keep going.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my God, I love that so much.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_02: So I want to just start a little bit with your story because we're kind of like already going into it a little bit, but take us a little bit through your journey of coming onto the planet and then to where you are now.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so glad you're talking about reclaiming consciousness because I think that that's been my journey from the time I showed up here all those years ago.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: And um, somebody asked me recently how long or how long I've been psychic or how long I've been spiritually intelligent.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: I said, Well, I was born that way.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: And we can see that.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I have a personality assessment that I give that really helps us illustrate what I mean by that.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: But there are some people who are just born with their eyes wide open, and I was one of those people, and probably you were too, and probably a lot of your listeners were too.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I always was, and I was raised Catholic mysticism and charismatic Catholicism were kind of the pathways in Catholicism, and I've since you know transcended that.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: But for a long time, that was the kind of the framework and continues to have influence in how I how I understand the universe and how it works.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: When I was six, I knew I wanted to be a doctor and write a book.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I actually laid down on my bedroom floor with my notebook and my pencil to start writing a book when I was five or six.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember I was laying there and I was ready to write, and nothing, I didn't have anything to say.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, not to mention I didn't know how to write very well at the time, but there was something inside of me that was like, but I know I'm supposed to do this and there's nothing coming out.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I thought that that was just such a such a telling moment for me, just in terms of learning how to use my voice and learning not just what to think, but how to think.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so that was the that was the early part of my life, just feeling very connected with spirit and always knowing stuff without knowing why I knew it.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: My family didn't have words for the telepathy that we all shared.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: We could have entire conversations driving in a car, my sisters, my mom, and I.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: And suddenly in the middle of a trip, one of us would say, Well, what about him?
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: And everybody knew who we're we were referring to because it was all going on telepathically, but we didn't have words for that.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: We just did what we did.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: We all knew things that other people didn't know, whether it was, you know, a pop quiz in math class, or I've had an entire essay, a scholarship essay, download on my way to the principal's office to write the essay.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't know what that was, I just was being myself.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: At 18, uh, my mom and dad started their divorce process.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: I was the oldest kid in the family, and that just really broke my heart.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: And at that point, that trauma uh created the conditions for me to really start shutting down my intuitive abilities.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: I just, I think I was so brokenhearted.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: I remember I used to be able to, you know, channel my writing.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: I would write poetry or I'd write essays or whatever.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: And after that moment, there was just something that just broke in my heart.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: And it was really difficult for me to be creative at that point.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: I graduated from high school, third in my class.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: I went to college to major in biology.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: I thought I would go to medical school.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: I, in the first semester of my freshman year, I got mono.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: I moved eight hours away from home to go to college.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: I had fallen in love with my high school boyfriend.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: So there was that kind of trauma bonding that was going on.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: There was all of this stuff, in addition to my parents' divorce, that really set the tone for the next probably 10 years of my life, which was riddled with anxiety, depression, symptoms of ADHD.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: Looking back now, I understand the effects of the Epstein Barr virus, which I contracted early on in college on my nervous system and on how I was thinking.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I went from being a kid who had the world by the tail to this depressed, anxious person who was really struggling in school.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought I had the imposter syndrome.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: And it really wasn't bad.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: It was just like, I just thought, well, maybe I'm not as smart as I have led everybody to believe.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't understand that it was actually my nervous system that was really being messed with with the virus and the other things that were going on.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: So that 10-year span, Elise, between 18 and 28 was just rugged for me.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: Lots of lots of trauma, lots of anxiety, lots of depression.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_02: I'm guessing around 28.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: Well, first of all, that's kind of like your Saturn return, too.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm guessing things really changed after that.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: Can you tell us about that?
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know anything about Saturn return.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, recently I just heard about that and I was like, dude, that totally was my 28.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, it's such a thing for everybody.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: I had no idea.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, the next one is 56 when you're like, your soul is like, okay, dude, like really seriously get your shit together.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: But mine happened at 28.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I was working, so uh undergrad was biology major.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: I thought I would go to medical school.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't get in.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't have a mentor say lots of people don't get in, go back and do more work.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: I instead I married my college sweetheart and went to work in the biotech industry as a I was a scientist in a biosafety level three laboratory.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: So this was long before 9-11.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: It was, I'm a Gen Xer, so I was coming of age right around 1999, coming of age, turning, you know, getting ready to turn 30, that kind of thing.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: So this was in the late 90s that I was working for the for biotech to contextualize this, working with really bad microorganisms long before, as I said, 9-11 when the anthrax scares came out and everything.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: So by the time flash forward to now, when the pandemic happened, part of me was like, well, this just makes good sense that we're going to start practicing aseptic technique in our homes and we're going to wear gloves and things like that.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: I had been so programmed from earlier in my life.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: Finally, people are washing their hands.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we should have been doing that all along.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: That lasted about five minutes early in the pandemic when before we all kind of figured out what was going on in reality or in our, you know, in the matrix.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: But so at 28, I was depressed, I was anxious, I was having panic attacks, I was waking up in the middle of the night, not being able to get back to sleep.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm working in this very high stakes, high stress, dangerous job.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, literally, I could have died from exposure to some of these microorganisms that I was working with.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we were all in PPE and had all the things, right?
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: But still, it was an intense time in my life and an important time in my life because it was then that through all of the anxiety and depression, I had a colleague pull me aside one early one morning when I'm eating my Krispy Kreme donuts in my Diet Coke, which might was my self-care at the time.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: Don't talk to me about my diet coke.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm kidding, I don't.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: Diet Coke is like such a thing for people.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's really funny.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_02: I had an ex-boyfriend who like was like a Diet Coke drinker.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_02: He was diabetic, and it was like definitely a thing.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_02: People who drink it, like drink it.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: Seriously, drink it.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: My mom used to, I was in science fairs in high school, and I'd stay up until 5 a.m.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: of the science fairs, getting my board stuff.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: It used to be four computers, so I had to stencil all my stuff.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: And she would buy me a two-liter bottle of Diet Coke and leave me to my projects in the basement of our house.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like that was that was her great idea of support.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I appreciated it.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was just something that she knew that yeah, whatever.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I was just grateful that this person pulled me aside with my Diet Coke and my Krispy Kreme donuts and said, listen, you're depressed, you're burned out, and you don't have to feel this way.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember in that moment feeling such a sense of relief that somebody had named what I was feeling.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_02: I was gonna say, did you even know that you were depressed?
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: Nope.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: Didn't know I was depressed, didn't know I was anxious.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: I would drive to work and kind of road hypnosis.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: I had a 45-minute commute from a suburb of Kansas City, north on the I-35, which is filled with traffic, and then east to the plaza, which was it was just crazy traffic all the time.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I would get to work some days, and I'm like, I don't even remember how I got here.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: Bless my brain's heart.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you're welcome for that.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: But really, the my nervous system was such a mess, not to mention some of the vaccines that I had to receive as a result of the work I was doing at that time as well.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: So there were just a lot of things that were contributing to my lack of well-being, certainly.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: So at 28, when she said that to me, I was like, oh, thank God.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I went like almost immediately, as soon as she said that I went to my primary care doc.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: I got on Prozac, I think at the time, and started.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: That was an activating moment for me because around that same time I had found my high school graduation picture.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: And you know those pictures, their cap and gown.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: I had the brightest eyes and the smile on my face that could light up New York City.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I looked at that picture and I thought, where did you go?
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're not here right now.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know where you are, but you're not here.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: And if this is all there is, this sucks.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: And it wasn't that my life was bad.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, listen, I was living in the suburbs of Kansas City getting my nails done on Thursday and wearing my diamond tennis bracelet that my engineer husband had given me for Christmas.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: But it was a very ordinary life, and it was very much a uh a life that I felt like belonged to somebody else.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: It certainly wasn't the one that I had envisioned when I was 16 and fearless.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_02: So then what happened?
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_02: You find out you're depressed.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_02: Tell us about the transformation or like what happens.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: So my transformations have always started with weight loss.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: I guess there's an activation that happens in my physical body when I just know as part of that.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: I love the word that you use is metamorphosis, but part of that is transforming the physical body as well.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: I thought it was, well, I'm getting ready to turn 30, and I really should probably get my body back because Krispy Kreme donuts take a toll over time, as it turns out.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I went back to the gym.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: I changed how I was eating for sure.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: I changed jobs out of the blue, and this is how my career has always gone.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: It just somebody will pick up the phone and call me and say, Hey, I have this thing.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: Do you want to do it?
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: And that'll leapfrog me into the next stage of my career.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: And that happened certainly at around that time.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: So my commute got a whole lot shorter.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: I went from 45 minutes in traffic both ways to 15 minutes with no traffic.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: So that was a game changer.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: My salary increased as well, and I really started coming into my own just in terms of confidence and what I was doing with my career, rather than being, oh, this is Richard's wife and Richard's the engineer, and she's just this little biology major over here.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: I was really coming into my own leadership.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, at that same time, that marriage was unraveling.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: How could it not?
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: How could it not?
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: He really said to me one time, he said, I just want you to be a stay-at-home mom.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because I he had to go to daycare when he was a kid because his mom worked, and he described, you know, I had to sit in front of the TV and eat chips.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: And that was his like idea of hell as a as a child.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: So he didn't want his kids to have that experience.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so then I would be the one who would stay at home with the kids.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I just knew we should have had that conversation literally years before, but we didn't.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: We were kids when we got married.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, by that time, by the time I was 28, 29, I was like can't.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: So it was not amicable at all.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: It was a very difficult time.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: But I was also in deep transformation in terms of recovering from some of the trauma earlier in my life with my parents' divorce.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: That was a big, big thing at that time for me.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: And then I didn't get into medical school.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: I knew that I was meant to be a doctor.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: So how was I going to do that?
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what was the driving thing?
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: But that was something that just kept on welling up for me.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's not getting my advanced degree, getting my doctorate wasn't an option.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't like somebody was like pushing my head into the ground saying you have to, but it was just so I was so compelled to do that.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: And that I think was part of the straw that broke the camel's back with my ex-husband, which was that I wanted to go back to school.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: I knew I wasn't done with my education.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: And he just couldn't, he was first generation college student.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody in his family had even had a degree before he showed up.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: And my family has a long educational history and you know, and lots of credentials coming out of my family.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: So there's just some cultural differences, I think, socioeconomic differences with that.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: But um, when I finally left, like within six months, I was enrolled in my master's program, my PhD program, came on the heels of that.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: And at the same time, because I was undergoing this deep transformation on a spiritual level, I was also doing a spiritual apprenticeship in spiritual intelligence, learning soul retrieval, working with the shamans, working with the medicine people and learning ancient ways rather than trying to fit who I was as a divine being of love and light into a box of Catholicism or into a box of how I'm using air quotes here, normal people treat spirituality.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: Because I knew that there was so much more to it than what the culture had led me to believe.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's so interesting.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_02: Because I love how you like really combine spirit and science or whatever you want to call it, however you want to say it.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_02: Because, you know, for me, my experience with you and with the neo-assessment, which you mentioned earlier, the personality test that you give, it was so profound for me to do that with you because it was so straightforward as far as like, well, look, here it is.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_02: And for me personally, it was just so profound to be able to see, you know, things that I thought might be true about myself, but didn't have really the courage to claim, right?
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like my unique abilities and talents and being like in the you know, top 1% of emotionally intelligent people on the planet, which by the way, I tell my husband that all the time, and he gets so mad at me.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, you have to remember, I'm an emotional genius, and I am in the top 1% of emotional genius people.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_02: And he's just like, stop saying that.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_02: Why do you always say that?
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, because it's true.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, you get so mad about it.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I actually took a test with a psychologist.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: But anyway, I the reason why I bring that up is because in that experience for me, you were able to so clearly marry these two worlds where you were like, here is the data, you know, here's the data and here's what it means very clearly.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_02: But also, your guides are telling you this.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_02: This is clear in your arkashic records.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like, just the way you were able to do that was so clear.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: And concise and just really incredibly helpful.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: So I think, you know, that's obviously your work and what you're meant to do.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_02: But I guess so this part in your life was the beginning of you kind of bringing those two things together.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: It was.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: I had a teacher say to me once when she was trying to figure out why this was in graduate school, why I was studying creativity, why I was studying intuition.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: And she said, Oh, I get it.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: Research is research.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: In other words, I had this deep-seated desire to understand myself.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: Why do I know stuff that other people don't seem to know?
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: Why, why do I pick up things faster than other people?
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: Why do I know?
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: I remember one time I was driving on the I-35 and I had this flash.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: There was a pickup truck ahead of me with a ladder in it.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: And in my vision, I saw the ladder come flying out of the truck bed moments before it flew out of the truck bed and I was able to swerve around.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I didn't understand why those things were happening when most people were like, well, that's just weird.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: I knew that it wasn't weird because it happened so frequently to me, but I didn't understand it.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: So this ear, these early years in my transformation really had to do with understanding myself as a creative person, understanding myself as an intuitive or psychic person, understanding my gift of healing, my gift of knowing, that wisdom that comes forward that I know you're so familiar with as well.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: And that personality profile that I've used for years and years.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's the gold standard of personality assessments, actually, for psychologists.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: My mentor, Barb and I used the NEO to help high school creative kids understand themselves.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: I remember the first group when we had a, I forget how many assessments we'd given, maybe a hundred or so.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: I was actually able to tease out of that group.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: I could see the spiritually intelligent ones.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: And when you talk about emotional intelligence, you're talking about one or two of the facets in that profile, which combined or taken together, create this spiritually intelligent personality that nobody is really talking about, knowing about, or learning about.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like that that's my work at this point is to really start articulating what it means to be a spiritually intelligent person.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_02: Can you articulate that for like what is spiritual intelligence?
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, spiritual intelligence has two pieces to it.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: One is the ability to alter consciousness in the service of yourself or another person.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: So when you are, I know you do breath work, for example, in your breath work, that's the modality that you alter consciousness, right?
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: And you do that in the service of the other person because when that consciousness is altered, in other words, they'll have access to different aspects of their unconscious.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: They'll have access to the Akashic records to be able to make conscious contact with the creator, basically.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: So that's one piece of it, alter consciousness.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: The second piece is to use spiritual and energetic tools and modalities in order to bring about real world transformation.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: So that taken together, the spiritually intelligent ones are those of us who are able to alter consciousness in the service of ourselves or other people.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: And we use to that end, we use these modalities, whether it's the Akashic Records or breath work or hypnosis or meditation or oracle cards, whatever it is, those are just tools of our trade to conduct these, I'll call it psychic surgeries to create real world transformation.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, it's interesting too, because I've been thinking about this a lot as far as the tools go.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_02: Because as I'm going deeper into the work that I do with people and, you know, and just creating these transformations, what I'm really shown is like, it doesn't actually matter what I'm doing.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's just the energy that I'm holding.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: And like my guides will like joke with me all the time because I'll like take people through these deep energy work processes.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like feeling like I'm really hitting the nail on the head with like what I'm saying.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_02: And they're like, you know, it really doesn't matter what you say.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, because it feels like it does, you know.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_02: And they're like, no, it's really just the energy that's coming through you, you know.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_02: So it's interesting, like, because I think we're also kind of coming to that understanding that even it's the tool doesn't even matter.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's just kind of the energy that is coming through us and the energy that we're holding.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that actually bears out in the research.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, really?
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: This is in the early 2000s.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, these psychologists did some research on the curative factors involved in transformation.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: And curative factors are everything from going to a socially sanctioned healer.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: So a psychologist, or now that we're in the middle of the Great Awakening, it's people like us by the transformative leaders.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: So, socially sanctioned healer, there are tools that we can use in order to bring about the transformation.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: You'll be familiar with some of these more traditional tools like cognitive behavioral therapy or like, you know, psychodynamic psychotherapy, they all have some contribution to curing or to creating transformation.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: But the tools that we use only account for about 10% in the variance in outcome.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's why when somebody gets so like, oh, I love hypnosis.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I listen, I'm trained in hypnosis.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: I loved hypnosis, but that was the thing that I thought was transformative.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: I thought that if I just do hypnosis on everybody and do past life regressions on everybody, they'll get better and so on.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: Well, in fact, that tool that I was using was creating the conditions for the energies to come through, for the guides to come through, certainly.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: But to your guide's point, it's actually the energetics.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: The oracle card, same thing.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: So that's not to dis we hold in the 3D world, we hold our credentials so precious to ourselves.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a mantle of success or a mantle of authority that we carry with us.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: And yet, what it shows in the research is that if only 10% of the variance is due to the actual tools that we use.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: So all of those certifications that we've gotten, what accounts for the vast majority of the transformation?
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's actually the therapeutic alliance, the relationship that we have with that person.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: So creating that space and so that they can lean into that and just be while the transformation happens, takes place.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I know.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_02: I was thinking that too, just about like, yes, it's about the energy that's coming through us, but it's also about the other person's ability to lean into that and have that willingness.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_02: Cause you know, I mean, obviously we want all of our clients to get results and have great transformation.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_02: But there's always, you know, those one or two people that they sign up and they start and then they don't lean in.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_02: They don't show up and they don't have that willingness.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_02: And they're always the people who don't get the results.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_02: So it is really about that relationship.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_02: And it's interesting too, because I feel like people like you and I, who have always had these gifts, always just were really naturally good at having relations.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like they go hand in hand.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's the 1%, that's your emotional genius that you tell your husband about all the time.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_02: I cannot wait for him to listen to this episode because I know that like he knows it's true, but I feel like there's a part of him that like still wants to think that I'm making it up.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you know what I say.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: Just print out your neo profile and frame it.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: And circle that one data point where it shows two and a half standard deviations above average.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: You can't argue with the data, it's science.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: Come on.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's true.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's true.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_02: So the other thing I really wanted to make sure we touch on, because I know we both have a lot to say about this, is the trauma stuff.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_02: And we've been talking about this a lot because I obviously have been working with trauma for a long time.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_02: You too.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_02: And right now I think it's being more like recognized in the mainstream that, like, oh, we have trauma and we need to be trauma informed and we need to heal trauma.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_02: And it's kind of, I don't know, gotten watered down in a way.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I think we need to put our two cents into this conversation.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_02: So what do you think?
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: The bee in my bonnet.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's one of the bees in my bonnet.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: So here's the thing: what does trauma informed even mean?
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're gonna market yourself as a trauma-informed coach, what does that mean?
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: To me, a lay person can be trauma-informed.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: In other words, he or she is gonna know enough to know that this isn't outside of my wheelhouse, and I need to refer this person to somebody who is actually an expert in trauma recovery, trauma transformation.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not convinced that that's actually what's happening with some of these lay people who are calling themselves trauma-informed anything.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: By the way, I don't know if you do this, but I, you know, I have a PhD in psychology.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: I still have my license as a psychologist.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: I practice executive coaching, I do keynote addresses, I do trainings, I don't do therapy, and I don't, I don't refer to myself as trauma-informed anything in the marketplace.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: I just don't.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: People don't show up at my doorstep because they have trauma necessarily.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: Although they they have started because I talk about corporate trauma, which doesn't rise to the level of the clinical diagnosis.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: But um, even I, in my practice, if I've got somebody and I have had from time to time people who come in with deep-seated, big, big trauma.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I have in my informed consent, I always say I reserve the right to refer if I feel like I can no longer be of service or if this is not a good fit.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I've used that a couple of times simply because my company and who I am and how I'm showing up in the world is not equipped to support people who are deep in clinical trauma.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I would say, and that's coming from me with all of my background, similar to you, with all of our background in working with trauma, in our clinical training, all of those things, even I am saying that.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: But I know enough to say that, and so do you.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not certain that the people who are calling themselves clinically informed coaches, for example, well, I am certain that the vast majority of them have, let's be honest, I'm psychic and I know shit.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: The vast majority of them don't have the training, the understanding, the awareness, or the know-how to actually truly support and do more good than harm for the people who are coming to them.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_02: I agree.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_02: And the other thing, the other piece of it that I think is really important is I think that it also, it's one thing you're right to be trauma-informed.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_02: I don't even know what that means, to be honest with you.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I used to lead trainings when I was a school counselor in like trauma informing people, basically.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_02: And it was funny because I used to make them up, like not make them up, but you know, I mean, like you said, you would channel like essays and stuff.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like, that's how I do all my work.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_02: So they would be like, oh, we need to be trauma informed now.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, I'll make us trauma informed, right?
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I would just like channel everything they needed to know.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I think I would look up a little bit of statistics and stuff, so I would have like data.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_02: But for the most part, I I just like would make it up, you know.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_02: But the point is, is I think there's not even really like a, I don't know what the requirement would be to be trauma informed.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_02: And also like, it's not even about learning information to me necessarily, it's about self-awareness.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_02: And if you don't have the self-awareness to like understand what you're coming up against, as far as like if something really is trauma, right?
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_02: For example, if someone, if you have someone who's kind of losing it on you or they kind of are having a process or a problem, you could easily misidentify that as something else and not realize that it's just their trauma coming up, right?
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that's really an important piece of it too, is just the self-awareness piece and also the piece where like you part of like I guess what you would say being trauma informed is like having done your own trauma work because there's no way that you could ever recognize anyone else's trauma unless you had that awareness within yourself.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: And remember in your training, I at least got this in mind to know enough to know when I'm not psychologically equipped to walk through somebody else's trauma with them because it's too close to my own.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: So if I've been a victim of sexual assault and I'm sitting across from a woman who's been sexually assaulted, that's gonna bump up against my own trauma.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: And if I'm not self-aware enough, if I'm not clinically aware enough, if I'm not professionally aware enough, and if I haven't done my work, there's gonna be an enmeshment, a trauma bonding that takes place.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: And it creates that's when I say it creates more harm than good.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not that the people who are out there who say that they're trauma-informed aren't good-hearted people.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's not that they're trying to do something wrong.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: And perhaps they have had their own, done all of the work, but how do we know?
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: How do we know?
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that now more than ever before, when we bump up against our trauma, we have to also be discerning about who we're going to go to for transformation.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I think also people, well, not all the time, but I I was talking about this with a client too.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_02: Cause I feel like a lot of times people can have these stories that they tell themselves that they can't help other people until they're like fully healed or whatever.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_02: I was talking about this with one of my clients, and she has really healed from so much trauma and she's really come out on the other side.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, listen, you're at the place where like people, anyone would want you to help them move through this because like you've done the work, you know, and it's not about being perfect.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_02: It's just about that you went there yourself.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_02: My point is, I think people can feel that.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_02: They can feel that someone is that safe space for them to lean into.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_02: Unfortunately, I just think what happens sometimes is people don't necessarily have the awareness that they do have trauma and that they need someone to lean into it.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's part of, you know, what I'm constantly educating people about is like we all have trauma and it has to be addressed in order for us to move forward the way we want to move forward.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for entrepreneurs, I just did a talk on this recently, the missing link a lot of times to the next level of financial success or the next level of visibility or whatever has to do with trauma responses.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: For my corporate clients, for the executives, if they're bumping up against glass ceilings, a lot of times it has to do with the trauma response.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: I have an exec who I work with who has been looking for a new position for like two years.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: And Elise, I am so good at facilitating new jobs for people.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's the hill that I'm gonna take every single time.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: And with this person, to your point about not being fully engaged, she she came to me recently and she said that um there's a an assessment that they have to do as part of this interview process for this exec position.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: And she got real worried about it.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I need you to do some research, she said, on this assessment and find out.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: And like, um, what are you gonna do?
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like cheat on it?
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what's the point of that?
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: And she does have trauma around this about trying to figure out who she is in the workplace and how she can contribute and worried about getting into trouble.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: And she's so agreeable, as we know from the personality profile.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: Agreeableness is one of those people pleasing, not being able to say no, those are fawning trauma responses a lot of times.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: So we have to, unless and until she decides that she's gonna explore that and transform it, she's gonna keep bumping up against it.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: What I advised her is don't mute your personality on the assessment.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_00: What are you gonna do?
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_00: Put all threes, like be yourself.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_00: You want them to know who you are so that you can make an informed decision and they can make an informed decision.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: But don't hide who you are just to get a new job.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's just dumb.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_00: In my clinic, in my expert opinion, it's just dumb.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, what would you say?
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_02: Because I know I have my own theories around this.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what would you say is at the root of why those things happen for people?
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_02: Why we feel the need to be so overly people pleasing, or why we need to be agreeable, or why we feel like we are worried about what we're contributing.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what do you think is underneath of that for most people?
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: So, first of all, agreeableness, just the the in personality, it just is how agreeable are you?
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, how trusting are you, how tenderhearted are you, how compliant are you?
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_00: And those facets run on a normal distribution curve, meaning that about 68% of the population are about average on agreeableness.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's not really who I'm talking about or worried about.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_00: I I get more concerned about those people who are on the tail of the curve, the high end of the curve.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: The low end of the curve has a whole different issue.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: They're so disagreeable and they're more than willing to say no.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes they can be assholes about it too.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_02: Unemphetic assholes.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, that's my that's my label for that.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_02: Disagreeable.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's funny because I'm I'm high agreeable, and I think my husband, if he was tested, would be the complete opposite and like low agreeable.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just funny because I guess that's why one of the reasons why we go together.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: It could be my husband and I are both pretty disagreeable, so we we have our own dynamic.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: So let's just talk about the people on the high end of the curve, the ones who are overly agreeable, who have that, what I would say a trauma response.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think that that would be a good way to describe it with the people pleasing, the I'm afraid to say no.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna put everything on my plate and leave it there, and then some things are gonna drop off, and then you go into that guilt shame spiral as well, if you're not able to please.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, we all have our theories on this.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_00: I have to look at childhood and familial influences.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_00: I also have to look at generational, societal, and cultural influence as well, because we have so much, especially for women, we have so much programming about what it means to be a good girl and just be a good girl and just, oh honey, just be helpful.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_00: Just be helpful in a general way.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_00: So not only does it keep you in a sort of subordinate position in work, it also mutes your unique gifts, talents, and abilities that are meant to be coming through that simply can't because they're there are these messages, some of them external, some of them are internal or have been internalized about how you're supposed to be in the world.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, I can so relate to that.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's it's really my struggle.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember my mother saying to me so many times, like, oh, just do it, Elise.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_02: Just do it.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_02: It'll make the person happy.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_02: Just do that.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_02: Or the other message I would get would be, well, just lie and tell them you did it.
• 42:10
  unknown: I swear to God.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like this overly like people pleasing, agreeable, not wanting to rock the boat.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's not okay to say how you actually feel.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I think this is common.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think this is unique to me, which is why I'm sharing it.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_02: But it it's the biggest thing that I've come up against in my path as an entrepreneur and my personal growth path, because you can't be like that when you're a business owner.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_00: And if you think about your own, your family history and being Jewish and what it meant generationally to be agreeable versus disagreeable, it meant it was a matter of life and death for your ancestors.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I bring that forward simply because we all have influences like that.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yours happens to come through the Jewish lineage.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_00: Mine would happen to come through the Catholic lineage if we're gonna look at religion and that sort of thing.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_00: So the messages I got, well, if you're not good, you're going to hell.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_00: That was always a nice that's that's lovely.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_00: I remember, at least, I remember the first time I ever swore.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_00: I use the F word.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_00: I said one time I broke a shoelace in fifth grade, and I said that really pisses me off, and my mom just lost her shit.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like she was like wow.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it was so like she didn't like she was just so appalled that her daughter would say something like that.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_00: But a year later in sixth grade, I remember I was on the playground, and everybody had such foul language at that point.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, everyone's experimenting with swearing and everything.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_00: And Missy Parrot, one of my friends, would she had just a mouth of a sailor.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I was on the playground.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_00: I was standing by myself on the playground, and all of a sudden, I'm just like something welled up inside of me, and I was like, I'm gonna say the F word really loud on the playground because it was all noisy and everything.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: So nobody could hear me anyway.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I say it really loud, and I literally waited for a bolt of lightning to come out of the sky and strike me down.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_00: And when it didn't happen, I was like, huh.
• 44:13
  unknown: All right.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_00: So then did you start saying it all the time?
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, there's something really fulfilling about saying the F word.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I say it all the time.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_02: So, and my my mother, I didn't grow up that way.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like my mother always cursed.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_02: So I didn't have that.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_02: But it there's something very satisfying about cursing.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_02: It really helps you get your point across, I feel like.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I just have learned, and I learned this from a high school teacher, an English teacher who wrote a poem, and she said as she was reading it to our, we were at a poetry retreat.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_00: She said, I'm gonna say, I'm gonna use this curse word.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I want you to know I'm using it intentionally and I'm using it with purpose.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the only thing I would ask you to do if you're gonna choose to use this word.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I've taken, I took that to heart.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's not every other word.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_00: My husband's a native New Yorker, so the F bomb is like every, it's like an adjective.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's why.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_00: But for me, it's more meaningful.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_00: And like get through an entire sentence without using that, maybe.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_00: So to go back, let's just bring this back into agreeableness and the and the trauma response.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: So we have these influences about how we're supposed to show up in the world to keep ourselves safe.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_00: That often comes from our parents.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_00: How can I keep this kid safe?
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_00: We keep the kid safe by creating the conditions for her to be really agreeable.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_00: Because if she's agreeable, she's less likely to get herself into trouble, get herself killed, get herself whatever.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, in past generations, that was actually a thing.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_00: So we have to do the generational transformation as well as clear out the societal and cultural messaging around how you're meant to be in the world that no is a complete sentence.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_00: And that it is an appropriate sentence.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_00: Some of us even get socialized to think that we can't say no.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how sick is that?
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_00: How impeccably sick is that?
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my God.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's like a castration.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_02: It's literally just like taking all of your power away.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_02: And and it's hard.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's hard for me to say no.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I'm getting way I've gotten way better, but it still is is confronting.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_00: You have to take a stand for yourself first.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I was thinking as you were talking about that, I was thinking about how common it is for if a little kid meets Aunt Judy and doesn't want to hug Aunt Judy.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_00: But mommy says, Oh, honey, just hug Aunt Judy.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's fine.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_00: Well, fuck, you know, fuck off, first of all, mom.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_00: If she doesn't want to hug Aunt Judy, don't make her hug Aunt Judy.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what's the problem with that?
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I don't want to insult Aunt Judy.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_00: Well, what about your four-year-old kid who clearly has an aversion to Aunt Judy?
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_02: But we've been like socialized to it's like all this politeness.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, I've been thinking a lot about lately too, about the thing about being nice or being kind.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_02: And not that there's anything wrong with those things on their own, but it's like this overly, like almost as a trauma response, being overly nice and overly kind to like make sure that nothing bad happens to you or at your own expense.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's a really big piece of it too.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_00: Somebody said once that being nice is a manipulation.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_02: I don't disagree with that.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_02: Because it can be, I mean, depending on how it's used.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_02: But, you know, for me, it's am I being nice to my own detriment or am I being nice in a way that it's actually impeding on my own boundaries or a self-betrayal or self-abandonment?
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_02: So that's, I think that's a huge thing that we're all learning right now.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I guess I'm just curious, like for you, when it comes to, you know, this incredible and important work that you're doing within companies and with your clients, with really bringing these two worlds together of science and spirit, like, why do you think that that is so important right now?
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_00: I was walking with Cooper this morning, my almost year old golden doodle.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_00: And my guide said to me, We don't do transformation work because it's fun or because it's on a whim, and I just want to, you know, feel my best and I want to be my best self.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_00: We do the transformation work because we're here to make a contribution.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_00: And unless and until we do this deeper work, this inner work that creates the transformation, we are not fully leaning into our highest potential.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_00: And we're certainly not making the contributions that we were called here to provide.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_00: So when we were talking before we started recording, I said I had a story about an executive who was considering working with me.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_00: She reached out to me, she said it's time for me to work with you.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_00: We got on a call together and we started talking about.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_00: I have a, I call it the McKay actualization method, and I have a process that I take people through.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I shared some of that with her.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_00: The whole crux of it is you have to be willing to do your inner work.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_00: She's in a C-level position and she's getting feedback from her colleagues, from her, you know, the people who report into her that things are not going well.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_00: I said, it's time to do the inner work.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_00: She was not willing to do the inner work.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_00: She said, My husband said it sounds like I have to bear my soul.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_00: Well, in fact, you do.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_00: If you actually want to make the contribution, it doesn't have to be a violent thing to bear your soul, but you do have to be willing to self-examine and to allow yourself to be healed by the healers who have come here for the very purpose to create to create transformation for and with you.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel like sometimes that you're like on the MASH hospital on the front lines of a war?
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my God.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_02: I love that you said that because I always get this message.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_02: Because I help people through very serious trauma, meaning like they've been through some serious stuff.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I also help people through like lesser, you know, but every time someone comes to me, and you know, they're highly spiritual and they know they have these gifts, but they've had a ton of trauma and they need to move through it before they can actualize their gifts.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I had this one woman say to me, like, Do you think you can like handle this?
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like, do you think you are equipped for this?
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_02: Because it was, you know, she had very serious trauma.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I asked my guides, and they've said this to me multiple times.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_02: They said, Well, if not you, then who?
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I, and I really feel, and you know, not to say there's not other people who are very powerful at moving people through trauma, but I really feel like this duty, which is interesting that you brought up like the mash thing, because I feel this duty to help people, especially those highly spiritual women who came in with these incredible gifts that had serious trauma in this lifetime, that had past lifetimes of, you know, being burned at the stake or whatever it is, and ancestral trauma and all of this stuff to clear the way for them to be able to share these gifts.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like if I'm not doing that, then like, what am I doing?
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_02: But it is like being on the front lines of like a war.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_00: Well, because we are because we are.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_00: This is a spiritual war that we're in.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I work with the physicians in particular, are the ones who come in, and every time they come in for their sessions, I'm like, holy shit.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like, here we go again.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_00: And it really is let's get you stitched up, let's get you cleaned off, let's get you realigned.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_00: So, and then I have to send you back out there.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really sorry.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_00: But my sense of it is if we go with this we're at war truth, because we are, that I often feel like I'm commander sending my generals out to the to the front lines.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I can't have my generals wounded beyond their ability to lead.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the work, and that's deep and it's important.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_00: And for the physicians in the world, they have, especially the emotionally intelligent ones, the ones who are naturally intuitive, even if they're not leading with that, there's a really important need to make sure that they're getting the energetic support and transformation in order to be able to go out and withstand everything that they have to withstand on the front lines.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_00: I have deep compassion for them.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_00: But my goodness, it's every time one of them sits in my virtual chair, I'm like, here we go.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_00: And it becomes sort of this, it's good humored, but it's also like, here I am again.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I got discouraged, I have to tell you, Elise.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_00: I've been doing International Women's Day for literally years.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I've been doing this work around women in leadership.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_00: I used to wear a t-shirt in sixth grade that said anything boys can do, girls can do better.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_04: I love that.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_00: So you can imagine how well that went over with my with my friends.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_00: But so I've been doing this work a long time and I was reading there's this new movement around break the bias or something like that with women in leadership and tech and things like that.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I sat there on International Women's Day this year, a couple days ago, and I was like, I felt uh discouraged and exhausted.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I've been doing this work for well, let's just say 20 years, and still we're talking about this, and still this is a problem.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what is that?
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_00: But it just goes to the scope and the depth of the trauma.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm meeting with the leader later today who's talking about working with me, and she said, I have debilitating imposter syndrome.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, are you serious?
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't say that to her.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_00: But behind the scenes, I'm thinking, and it's not a judgment or a criticism, but Jesus, like, can we please heal this so that we can get on with it?
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_00: There's just so much work to do.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_00: So if you hear my frustration, that's it, it's frustration.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's also fire, and it's also the recognition that we still have a whole lot of work to do.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why it's so important, I think, for people like you and me who are clinically trained, even if we are not doing traditional therapy anymore or consider ourselves clinicians, that we are available to those spiritually intelligent people who are on the front lines or who do have know that they're meant to be creating, contributing something that they're not quite able to get through yet because of the trauma.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_00: I just think it's so important for us to come together as a community of healers to be able to do this work because there's so much to do.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_02: 100%.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I always am shown that healing our trauma is how we change the world and how we create the new earth.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_02: So I am like 100% with you.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_02: 100%.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_02: This is what we have to do.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, nothing frustrates me more than like seeing people that I know have a contribution to make that are sitting on the sidelines because they are stuck in their trauma and they don't recognize that they have trauma.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm just like, come on, you know, but I need to get out of that and just help the people that are willing.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's hard work.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_00: I've gone through my own trauma transformations.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, there were days probably 10 or 12 years ago, sitting on the floor sobbing, waves of grief and waves of trauma coming forward.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_00: And fortunately, I had a wonderful healing team who worked with me.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, this shit is hard and it's ugly.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_00: So we don't do, to my guide's point, we don't do this transformation work because it's pretty.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_00: We do it because it's essential.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because we have to.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_02: And if we want to really be the contribution that we came here to be, it's required.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why we do it.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, I mean, I like to think that I, like you were saying, you have a method, I have a method as well to help people move through it where I'm not gonna say it's easy, but it's efficient, but it has to be done, right?
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_02: And it won't be pretty at times and it won't feel good at times.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_02: But what's on the other side is so much better than anything you can imagine, which I know you know that.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, this work is incredibly, incredibly important.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you for sharing that.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_02: I know we could probably talk for another hour, but we're coming up on time here.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_02: So um, can you share with everyone where they can find you?
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_00: Of course.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_00: You can head over to my website, drrobinmckay.com.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_00: My first name is spelled with a Y.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_00: There's a leadership quiz that pops up on that on that website, and that is kind of a snapshot of that bigger assessment Elise and I were talking about today.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's always a really good place to start because in the results of that quiz, you actually get to see what your soul's purpose is based on your leadership style.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_00: So that's really pretty special.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_00: I think that is always a gift to know more about what your soul's purpose is when it comes to leadership.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_00: You can also find me on Instagram, dr.dr.robin McKay.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm a Gen Xer.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_00: I hang out on Facebook, of course.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_00: And my corporate clients and I are over on LinkedIn.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_00: I say that kind of like sheepishly, like over on Facebook, my favorite.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_02: It's the old comfy chair.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, I mean Facebook is it's easy.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so the last question that I always ask everybody is for you, what is a non-negotiable when it comes to fully reclaiming your consciousness?
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_00: I think that it's about awareness of where I'm where I'm focusing my consciousness.
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_00: I've been saying for a while now that consciousness is our greatest asset, but it's also a commodity.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_00: And there's so many things that are competing for our consciousness.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_00: Social media, Netflix, the 24-7 news cycle, all the things are competing for our consciousness.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_00: So we have to, and I know you've said this too, curate our consciousness.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_00: And to stay in my lane, I always tap in this morning before I even got out of bed.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm laying there and I'm tapping in and I'm activating all of my energy centers and I'm connecting in with the heart of God and I'm connecting in with the heart of the new earth.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_00: Those are just processes that I have to do in order to be able to walk in this world without being attacked, damaged, thwarted from my mission.
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_02: I couldn't agree more.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, where we put our consciousness is absolutely everything, and it is a commodity.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_02: So a hundred percent could not agree with you more.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for being here, Robin.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_02: This was amazing.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_02: And we will talk to you soon.
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for being here.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_01: Don't forget to subscribe to the show, leave a review, and share the show with your friends who you know are yearning for this type of content.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_01: You can stay connected with me by following me on Instagram at elite underscore breeds and by joining my Facebook group, Breed to Succeed, where I share my weekly energy forecast.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_01: And subscribe to my list where you'll receive a free breath work session, meditation, and journaling prompt to deeply connect with your intuition at elitebreeds.com.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_01: See you next time.