Latest / The Learning Corner by Precursor / Episode #101: Anthropic Files Its S1, Owning GPUs Isn't Compute, Is Venture Just Closet Indexing?

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Episode #101: Anthropic Files Its S1, Owning GPUs Isn't Compute, Is Venture Just Closet Indexing? · The Learning Corner by Precursor

• 0:00
  The irony is I think for better or for worse, when you're in a capital dense geographic
• 0:04
  location like San Francisco or New York, you get signals about what's happening in in the
• 0:09
  fundraising markets whether you want them or not.
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  And if you're not there, you're reading about these rounds six to nine months later, and
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  you're probably scratching your head saying, how did that company get all of that money?
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  I feel bad because a lot of times those people show up and they're like, here's my report
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  card.
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  I finished all the problems.
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  I was like, but you were in the wrong chapter.
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  It's the week of October 26.
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  Welcome to the learning corner a Precursor Ventures podcast.
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  Welcome to the Learning Corner by Precursor.
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  I'm Mia Foranum, and I'm joined by our GP and managing partner, Charles Hudson, where we will
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  be talking through the articles and Goodreads that caught our team's attention over the past
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  week.
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  Our first piece this week is, of course, the news that Anthropoc has, in fact, filed its s
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  one with SEC, setting up an Nasdaq listing under the ticker ANT.
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  The numbers in the prospectus are staggering.
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  They've got 16,300,000,000 in revenue in the first half of twenty twenty six, up from about
• 1:00
  1,160,000,000 in the same period a year earlier and well past the 4,600,000,000 it did in all
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  of 2025.
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  The headline net loss of $80,700,000,000 looks alarming, but everyone knows at this point most
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  of that is a $72,000,000,000 noncash charge tied to convertible notes, derivative, safes,
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  and the company actually posted 974,000,000 in operating income in the second quarter.
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  Also discloses that more than $430,000,000,000 are locked in cloud compute commitments, and
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  that roughly one fifth of its revenue comes from just two customers.
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  On governance, the seven cofounders keep around 50.1% of voting power through a single founder
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  share, while the long term benefit trust they set up, elects a majority of the board, last
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  valued at 965,000,000,000 in a private round in May.
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  This listing will, of course, be the final test of how public markets price a frontier AI lab.
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  Yeah.
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  Charles, wanted to ask you what the general pulse is feeling like in San Francisco with the
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  impending IPO on the horizon.
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  So I had a meeting yesterday at an office with one of the people who was doing the book
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  underwriting on the IPO, and it was it was busy in that office.
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  I think everyone's trying to figure out what will happen.
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  Of course, with the headlines like, oh my god.
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  All of this wealth infusion into San Francisco. I'm
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  I'm like, well, someone who lives here, there's already a lot of wealth in San Francisco.
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  And two, unlike the Google Facebook era, a lot of that wealth has already leaked into the
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  market through secondaries and tenders.
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  And also just like the general appreciation in mag savvy stocks, and a lot of those people
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  live here.
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  So I think it's gonna be fascinating to see what happens.
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  A few of my friends were like, oh, well, once this goes public and people start to leave, I'm
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  like, I've seen some crazy stats about the number of centimillionaire and decimillionaires
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  that are gonna be made.
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  They're gonna be minted.
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  I'm like, look, I wouldn't assume that all these people are just gonna go start tech
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  companies.
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  For a couple reasons, one, they might have a really robust view of what Anthropics near term
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  potential is.
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  And so, like, I'm not jumping in front of that buzzsaw.
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  They might just say, I have enough money.
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  I wanna go become a pastry chef.
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  And I bring these things up because, like, this happened in the .com era.
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  There are people who are just like, wow.
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  I suddenly have all the money I need.
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  Now that I have freedom, I wanna go pursue things outside of tech.
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  I think it'll be fascinating.
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  And for me, the...
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  One of the more interesting things is we'll finally have public eyes on these companies.
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  I think everything else has been more innuendo or leak reports or company status stuff.
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  And I think we'll finally have, you know, 10 q level reporting on these companies.
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  And I think the interesting thing is it'll give people a chance to inspect these companies
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  maybe who are slightly more skeptical or who think differently about the long term value of
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  these companies.
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  And I think it's a real bellwether moment for Venture.
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  I think it's a bellwether moment for a handful of firms like Spark and Menlo.
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  And I don't know.
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  I think it's gonna be fascinating.
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  I keep looking at what's happening in the macro environment.
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  And the one thing that I think is fascinating is if I were Anthropic, I'd be like, compute is
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  this, like, existential risk for us.
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  We're able to cobble it together by calling our friends the hyperscalers and SpaceX.
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  And we have these neo clouds, and we find together...
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  At some point, I'm like, at $500,000,000,000, it's clearly existential.
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  And I'll be very curious to see how they think about financing compute going forward.
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  Well, there is the undercurrent conversation I felt like on X that this is as good as what the
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  business is gonna look like ever, and so that's why they won IPO today.
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  Do you have any comments on that?
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  I guess it's all skeptical at this point.
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  I think it might've...
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  I'm not sure who said it.
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  It might've been Benedict Evans.
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  Someone said that Anthropic s one is a Rorschach test.
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  And on the one hand, you're like, wow.
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  This business is highly dependent on a very small number of customers spending a whole lot
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  of money.
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  That's a bad signal for the health and wellness of the AI business.
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  The flip side is this is a gigantic business where only a very small number of people have
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  figured out how to take advantage of this technology, imagine how much greater it can
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  become when others get on the same train.
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  And in some ways, I feel like that's the existential question about all of this AI
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  stuff.
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  It's like, are the San Francisco frontier billboard people, are they living in the future
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  that we will all inhabit?
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  And years from now, many people will be AI maxing and using AI as aggressively as the
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  people in my zip code?
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  Or are we on some weird feature branch of the future where we're running an experiment where
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  a very small number of people are using this technology very intensely, and that feature
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  branch will, like, never end up on main.
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  Because most people will be like, I'm not gonna do what you're doing.
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  I'm not gonna live that way.
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  AI is not gonna become that integral into my business or life.
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  And I think if we're on a future branch, we're probably overdoing it.
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  And if that future branch ends up back on main, then, like, we're just living in the future.
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  We're just, like, a few years ahead of what everybody else will do.
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  And I think it's funny if you live in San Francisco, you're like, well, of course, we're
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  just living in the near future.
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  Everybody else is going to be using this stuff in the same way with the same intensity as we
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  are.
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  And my experience has been, that's not how technology diffusion It always takes longer
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  than people think.
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  And I think we're gonna be in FDE land for a lot longer than people think.
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  I think it's gonna take a lot longer for...
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  Because I've seen it even in our little firm.
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  The changes you have to make to the way that you work to really get value out of AI are not
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  trivial.
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  And it's not just like laying off people.
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  It's also reimagining the way that work gets done, ripping stuff up, and, you know, getting
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  people to change habits and habits.
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  Habits are like a safety blanket in corporate America.
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  You're like, we do this thing this way, and if I follow this rule and do it this way, I'm
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  safe.
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  It's a good tie into our second piece this week, which comes from a post by Nick Rubin
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  over at First Round titled The Gap Between GPUs and Compute.
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  It was a recap of a dinner he recently hosted with around six people who buy, they deploy,
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  and operate compute for some of the biggest AI labs and infra companies.
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  The headline is that demand is being treated as infinite for now, so people don't necessarily
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  care about that.
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  The real constraint isn't customers.
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  It's capital and power.
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  It creates a catch 22.
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  Buyers will pay a premium for capacity today, but hesitate to commit to a specific generation
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  of GPUs a year or two out.
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  And without those commitments, providers can't really get the financing to build what they
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  need to.
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  Even after a contract is signed, getting a cluster running is so hard and labor intensive
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  that one operator offered to send their own people into a provider's data center, actually,
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  from that dinner conversation.
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  And another attendee watched a fully approved project nearly get blocked by locals at a city
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  hearing, which are dynamics we've talked about a lot on the podcast.
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  Nick's takeaway sums it up pretty well.
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  Quote, AI moves fast, but the infrastructure underneath it takes years to build.
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  There's been more and more chatter about how the financing should work for the actual
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  infrastructure that enables compute.
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  This post is obviously a really good reminder of it.
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  We haven't even talked about the neo cloud drama
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  Yes.
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  That swirled last week, which is a bit adjacent to this.
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  But the concept that there is a disconnect between owning GPUs and having usable compute
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  was the main takeaway in this post.
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  Any additional thoughts you've been having on this entire subject right now?
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  I know you talked about kind of like different errors that you've lived through before.
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  We've talked about fiber and laying all of that into the ground more than what we needed to.
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  How does this compare?
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  I think it's fascinating.
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  And maybe I'm being a little bit of a nervous Nelly, but I feel like people aren't paying
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  enough attention to what's happening in the credit markets when it comes to finance. If
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  If I look at a lot of this AI data center spend, it's not all speculative in the sense
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  that, like, if we had this capacity, I think a lot of it would get used today.
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  It's speculative in the sense that, like, the cash flows for this stuff are gonna come many,
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  many years in the future.
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  And I don't know how you finance the level of compute expansion that's required without
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  capital markets being supportive.
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  And I think with the Neo Cloud thing, it's the first wobble we've seen where people are like,
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  well, maybe these...
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  All these Neo Clouds won't work out.
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  And, also, like, I've talked to a handful of our portfolio companies, including one one
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  founder who's done a real deep dive on sub 10 megawatt data center construction.
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  What he describes to me sounds kind of like buying any illegal substance on the black
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  market.
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  He's like, I found this guy.
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  He's like, I got GPUs.
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  And he's like, you got GPUs.
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  Let me see the GPUs.
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  No.
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  Well, okay.
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  I actually don't have GPUs.
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  I got a guy who's got g p...
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  Everything is murky and fast and loose because the demand is so high.
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  And so I don't know what happens if the credit markets begin to tighten for some of this AI
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  demand.
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  I don't know what happens if some...
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  Know, everything gets contracted compute.
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  I'm like, well, the risk in the contracted compute scenario is that the contracted entity
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  cannot pay.
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  Yes.
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  They have signed and they have committed, but you've gotta go build the thing and they've
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  gotta be around to pay you in the future.
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  And I think that is risky.
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  And if you treat that as, a 100% certainty, that's probably not good business.
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  I really wonder what happens if the credit markets either...
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  I don't think they'll shut off AI spend.
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  I think that would be wild.
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  But the cost of capital could go up pretty materially.
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  I think that's what you're seeing with, like, some of the the Corweave stuff around pricing
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  and the credit default swaps.
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  And even with Oracle, these things to pencil, they're harder to pencil if, basically, the
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  effective cost of capital or interest rates you have to pay and that money goes And if you
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  think compute is tight and hard to get now, I think it was AWS said, hey, we're basically
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  sold out through next year.
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  And again, a lot of people are contracting for compute that they expect to need, but you can
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  envision a a cycle where capital for data center build gets expensive, and so people
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  build less and also get tighter on ROI, maybe charge more, which means people say, oh, that
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  thing I was doing that was fun and free, maybe I can't do that. You can
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  You can envision, like, a cycle, a feedback loop that gets negative.
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  I don't think we're on the cusp of that, but I'm certainly keeping an eye on this because by
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  all accounts, we need a lot more compute, and the only way I can see to finance that is with
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  credit.
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  And even if I were to bring it to the equity side of conversations, especially for some of
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  the folks who are building in that space, I mean, rounds that have been announced from
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  folks like Etch, they need hundreds of millions of dollars.
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  The question becomes, at what point will those funds realize if it's working or not working?
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  Because I think Nick said it well, capital is becoming the moat.
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  You absolutely need it in order to execute.
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  You could dump in hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars into something for a large
• 11:02
  period of time to give yourself some runway.
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  At what point do you realize it's not going to come to fruition?
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  Again, credit markets, when they fall apart, are far more detrimental to ripple effects on
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  the economy.
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  One thing that they talked about, which we have a bit, is on the public opposition side.
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  The clearest hope, I think he said, at the table was that AI starts delivering tangible
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  benefits that the average person can feel, and and that being maybe a reason why people could
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  become more supportive around data centers being built in their backyards.
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  But I think the reality is the infrastructure has to be built before those benefits arrive.
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  Yeah.
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  How much runway do you think the industry has before local and political pushback
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  meaningfully slows down?
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  Do you think that maybe the anthropic IPO will make this easier or further for the public to
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  stomach?
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  I'm speaking more specifically about people who have been opposed to larger data centers, the
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  infrastructure of it all, be built so closely to them.
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  I mean, if you look at really the story of the Anthropic IPO, there's a very small handful of
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  people who live in San Francisco who are going to make a lot of money.
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  And and if you say, okay.
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  Maybe not San Francisco proper.
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  San Francisco Bay...
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  And that includes early investors, employees, real estate agents, commercial lead...
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  Like, a lot of people in a very localized...
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  That tends not to build goodwill.
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  If the data center's going up in your backyard and somebody in my zip code is making a lot of
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  money, you're like, how does how does getting rich help me deal with this big monstrosity in
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  my backyard?
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  I think also we have this weird duality even in the s one where it's like this is the greatest
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  technology and wealth creation thing ever.
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  Also, it might kill us all.
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  It might kill us all and we'll probably take your job, but otherwise, everything is amazing.
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  And it's almost as if nobody put any thought into two things.
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  One, is there any validity whatsoever to people's concerns and fears?
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  And some of this is fear, and you should never dismiss it.
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  And and two, to the extent that their fears are valid, how do we wanna respond to them other
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  than being dismissive or pretending that those fears are people trying to slow down the rate
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  of progress?
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  It turns out they can.
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  People are just like, oh, they're Luddites and, like, they don't get it.
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  They're trying to slow down the the wheels of...
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  I'm like, well, they seem to be succeeding by blocking these data center projects.
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  So whether out of necessity or out of care, I think at some point, the AI collective
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  marketing machine is gonna have to figure out how do we really wanna talk to people about
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  this technology.
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  Also, people aren't dumb.
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  They see their bosses at work telling them to use AI, and they're getting AI slop from their
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  colleagues.
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  And they're seeing people get laid off so that the company can do more with AI.
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  And people are just like, other than maybe Muse and Instinct being free and useful, how does
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  that...
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  Why does that matter if I don't have a job and can't pay my mortgage?
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  Was talking to somebody else yesterday, and they're like, I don't think the average person
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  is, like, reading through an s one for an impending IP owned.
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  I'm like, like, I'm sure everyone has more impactful things to do with their time who
• 13:42
  don't sit with an tech NVC.
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  But to your point, it's not like they haven't heard this down the pipeline, and it's only
• 13:48
  been in a negative way.
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  And they still haven't quite figured out how to position this in a way that benefits everyone.
• 13:53
  And when I read this piece, I think that one that one part really stood out to me.
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  In order to get everyone excited about it and to feel the benefits of it, you have to build
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  the infrastructure infrastructure first.
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  First.
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  You can't do it before.
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  So there has to be some other give.
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  And I don't know what that'll look like, and I don't know if we we've I
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  think if most people were like, you mean with ChatGPT, I can get paid for five days of work
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  and work for four days, and my boss will never know.
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  AI would be like the most most popular technology like ever created.
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  But that's not most people's experience.
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  No.
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  If it was that of great, I can win back three hours of my day and sign off.
• 14:28
  Most people aren't like, oh, I'd love to win three back three hours back of my day so I can
• 14:31
  become more productive.
• 14:32
  The average person isn't thinking like that.
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  Like, they're just not.
• 14:35
  The average person is like, I can win back three hours of my day, spend time with my
• 14:39
  family, cut back costs on childcare because I can do it at home.
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  No one's thinking like, so I can become a superhuman.
• 14:44
  That's the average person, and I just don't think we've bridged that gap yet.
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  And and I think the employer view is like, my gosh.
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  For the same eight hours, I can now get 1.3, 1.4 x the productivity of this person.
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  And I think this is like the lived experience of a lot of people.
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  It's like, oh, AI allows me to do more work per unit of time.
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  It's not to, like, do the same fixed amount of work faster.
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  It's a little bit of John Henry.
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  It's like, now I have to keep up with the line.
• 15:08
  Keep up the machine.
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  More is being asked of me.
• 15:10
  This is probably great for the person who owns the
• 15:12
  Yes.
• 15:13
  The five people who run each company are are all...
• 15:16
  Yeah.
• 15:16
  All get to see the benefits first.
• 15:18
  Well, our last piece comes from Jay Gibson over at Better Tomorrow Ventures titled On Risk, and
• 15:23
  his argument is that venture is starting to look a lot like public markets.
• 15:26
  Everybody owns the same handful of names.
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  Everyone is benchmarked against each other.
• 15:30
  Mhmm.
• 15:30
  And closet indexing is on the rise.
• 15:32
  All stats we've talked about.
• 15:34
  Established firms took 88.2% of all US venture capital raised so far this year.
• 15:38
  Megadeals of a $100,000,000 or more captured around almost 88% of the $412,000,000,000
• 15:45
  deployed in the first half.
• 15:46
  Jake says this is the opposite of 2021 because now even high quality, capital efficient
• 15:51
  companies get told they're not venture scale unless they check exactly the right boxes on
• 15:55
  category, pedigree, cap table, and AI narrative.
• 15:58
  He also calls out the rise of Vibe revenue from two week pilots annualized into ARR to
• 16:04
  contracts with ninety day opt outs, counted as reoccurring.
• 16:08
  Jake says that the market is trading career risk or financial risk, saying for most of the
• 16:12
  ecosystem, it's becoming well understood for your reputation to fail conventionally than to
• 16:17
  succeed unconventionally.
• 16:18
  So invest in the safe, expensive options, the more legible things to everyone.
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  His prescription is patience at a time when patience is the world's most scarce resources.
• 16:27
  Wanted your thoughts on this one.
• 16:29
  Obviously, again, with the anthropic IPO on the horizon and likely folks going to use that as
• 16:34
  ammunition to continue piling into consensus market, if it goes well.
• 16:37
  I read Jake's post and I texted him.
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  I thought it was very good.
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  And Also, comments on it were funny.
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  People were like, who hurt you?
• 16:44
  I know.
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  But we talked in an earlier episode about the Nifty Fifty and that whole era.
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  I read Jake's post.
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  I don't know.
• 16:51
  The one...
• 16:51
  There's one book I come back to all the time because I think it explains a lot of the world.
• 16:56
  It's The Unaccountability Machine, which shout out to James Cham for pointing out that book to
• 17:01
  me a long time ago.
• 17:02
  One of the premises of the book is, like, every system works exactly as designed.
• 17:06
  And I'm like, well, what if we're in a moment where, like, really what you're seeing is the
• 17:10
  reflected preferences of the people who allocate capital?
• 17:13
  And that whether they came to this view on their own or they were influenced by VCs, the
• 17:18
  view is, look, there's a very small number of companies that are consequential.
• 17:22
  And it's hard to argue that SpaceX and Anthropic aren't two of those five.
• 17:27
  Those companies are so consequential that very little else can measure up and there's a
• 17:31
  relatively small number of people who we believe will have consistent access to those
• 17:37
  companies.
• 17:38
  Why don't we just give them all of the money?
• 17:40
  And I'm like, but you'll never know the counterfactual.
• 17:43
  You'll never know like what other people would have found amazing companies if you'd done
• 17:47
  something different.
• 17:47
  You'll never know whether those people caught a heater and been like right for some extended
• 17:52
  period of time but that that's not reproducible.
• 17:54
  There are all of these things you simply cannot know.
• 17:57
  And I think a lot of people were just like, it's fine.
• 17:59
  This is easy.
• 18:00
  Give all of the money to the small number of people who we think can find exceptional
• 18:05
  companies.
• 18:05
  Hope that they find them and just be done.
• 18:08
  If you think about it, everything else is harder.
• 18:10
  Meeting hundreds of fund managers to find a few people that you think have a special talent for
• 18:15
  company selection, and then waiting ten years to see if those people are right, that's
• 18:19
  harder.
• 18:20
  And so sometimes I read things like what Jake wrote, I'm like, maybe the system is designed
• 18:24
  to reflect the preferences of the people at Capital who are just...
• 18:27
  I want this to be easy.
• 18:29
  I wanna make fewer decisions, and I wanna increase my probability that I'm in the
• 18:33
  relatively small number of names that matter, and that's it.
• 18:36
  I was getting coffee with a founder yesterday morning, and it struck me that it's never been
• 18:42
  so important or inherent to the job of a founder to understand the business of venture
• 18:48
  now more than ever.
• 18:49
  Whereas before, like, you could really just focus on executing as a founder and being
• 18:53
  obsessed with an idea in a market and going in that direction.
• 18:55
  I would say, you need to know what's going on in venture land from the growing fund
• 19:00
  perspective, and then need to be a 5 to $20,000,000,000 outcome in order to be remotely
• 19:05
  interesting.
• 19:06
  Previously, I really do think you could just be a founder.
• 19:09
  Now I'm like, you really need to start thinking like a VC.
• 19:11
  I don't think that used to be the case.
• 19:13
  One thing I was gonna ask in 2021 when we were in the last cycle, obviously different.
• 19:18
  He said it well.
• 19:18
  Like, every good, bad company was getting overly funded at overly valued prices.
• 19:23
  And we did have funds at larger sizes back then, obviously not at the magnitude that they
• 19:28
  are today.
• 19:29
  Why didn't we see, like, an immediate drop off of funding for, like, sub $5,000,000,000 market
• 19:34
  companies back then?
• 19:35
  Is it really just because we didn't know those were that possible?
• 19:38
  Why didn't we see as much of a drop off?
• 19:40
  I think this cycle is gonna last.
• 19:43
  If you think about it, there's still a lot of zombie corn, whatever you wanna call it.
• 19:46
  A lot of companies that raised a bunch of money in 2021 cut expenses, and they're still around.
• 19:51
  They're still around.
• 19:51
  They're still alive.
• 19:52
  They're still operating because they cut costs and held onto that cash because they knew there
• 19:57
  was, like, no more coming.
• 19:58
  And for all those companies, we still don't have a final reckoning.
• 20:00
  Like, they haven't shut down.
• 20:01
  They haven't sold.
• 20:02
  They're on people's books at some price, probably pretty close to the top of market.
• 20:06
  And I think we're kinda doing the same thing here, except we're doing it two ticks earlier.
• 20:10
  Instead of giving companies with a few million in ARR, a bunch of money on a high future
• 20:15
  revenue multiple.
• 20:16
  We're giving it to companies at inception, which means there'll be companies that raise
• 20:19
  $2,030.40, $50,000,000 pre product market fit.
• 20:22
  If things tighten, those companies will still have 20 or $30,000,000 in the bank and Yeah.
• 20:27
  Will abandon whatever original scaling and business model they had.
• 20:30
  And those companies could take seven to ten years to play out.
• 20:34
  But the people who invested in them will probably be able to raise new funds while those
• 20:39
  founders are stuck sorting all that stuff out.
• 20:41
  And so this is to me, like, the weird irony of
• 20:43
  these
• 20:43
  very large inception stage or growth stage financings is it puts the day of reckoning for
• 20:49
  these companies way into the future because they can afford to just operate and live for a
• 20:53
  really long time.
• 20:54
  That, I think, is the biggest irony is, I would say, the larger your market or opportunity is,
• 21:00
  the less validation you need in the earlier stages to lock in.
• 21:04
  And Jake talks about Vibe Revenue saying if the bar for a series a is a specific growth curve,
• 21:09
  founders will figure it out.
• 21:10
  And I think that was my question, and I'd love your perspective.
• 21:13
  You think founders building at this, like, preconception stage are catching on as well.
• 21:18
  There are actually no benchmarks and things that I need.
• 21:21
  There's people I meet who deeply understand the way that VCs are making decisions.
• 21:26
  I'd argue a lot of those people are in San Francisco or in New York.
• 21:30
  They're close enough, and they're watching people raise, and they're like, oh, this is
• 21:34
  some mix of vibes, having a timely problem, having a team that people understand.
• 21:38
  These are the things that matter.
• 21:40
  And I have other people who are still chasing ARR benchmarks from 2020.
• 21:43
  And I feel really bad for the people who are chasing ARR benchmarks from 2021.
• 21:47
  Was like, you're playing the wrong game and you don't even you don't even know it.
• 21:51
  No.
• 21:51
  It's response...
• 21:52
  I get it, like, why you think that it is what you should be shooting for.
• 21:55
  And I almost feel gross saying, like, you need to abandon that if we're going for something
• 21:59
  bigger.
• 21:59
  And I feel bad because a lot of times those people show up, and they're like, here's my
• 22:03
  report card.
• 22:03
  I, like, have all of the...
• 22:05
  I finished all the problems.
• 22:06
  I was like, but you were in the wrong chapter.
• 22:07
  The irony is I think for better or for worse, when you're in a capital dense geographic
• 22:12
  location like San Francisco or New York, you get signals about what's happening in in the
• 22:16
  fundraising markets whether you want them or not.
• 22:18
  So you don't have to be actively fundraising.
• 22:20
  You've got friends, neighbors, people you know, friends of friends who are raising rounds, and
• 22:25
  you're like, how do they get that crazy round?
• 22:27
  Oh, dude.
• 22:27
  Like, this person said in their DMs and heard that they like poker game.
• 22:31
  You you get a sense of how things are happening.
• 22:33
  And if you're not there, you're reading about these rounds six to nine months later, and
• 22:37
  you're probably scratching your head saying, how did that company get all of that money?
• 22:40
  And all along, you've been playing a different game.
• 22:42
  Would you say one of the most important things that you need to do right now if you're a
• 22:45
  founder and you're wanting to build consequential comedy, you absolutely have to be
• 22:48
  in those two geographies.
• 22:49
  Ideally, probably SF.
• 22:50
  I think if you're not there, you need incredible connectivity.
• 22:54
  You need incredible connectivity.
• 22:56
  So much so that I'm just like, it's probably easier to just be in one of those places.
• 23:00
  Well, we are all out of time today.
• 23:01
  Thank you, Charles, for jumping in.
• 23:03
  Thank you to all of our listeners as well.
• 23:05
  We had a bunch of new folks join us last week, so stay tuned.
• 23:08
  We'll drop a new episode next week.
• 23:10
  Thanks.
• 23:10
  Bye.
• 23:11
  Bye.