Latest / Pod Save America / "It's Coup O'Clock Somewhere."

Transcript

"It's Coup O'Clock Somewhere." · Pod Save America

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: I'm Jon Lovett. I'm Tommy Vitor. He gets me.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: I'm reacting.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: Don't blame the victim. What is he talking about?
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: I thought you sounded pretty normal.
• 0:31
  Speaker 3: Me too.
• 0:32
  Speaker 4: Weird.
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: Monsters.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: On today's show, the second January 6th hearing exposes Donald
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Trump's big lie. Senator Chris Murphy joins to talk about
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: a potential deal on gun safety. And Surgeon General Vivek
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: Murthy stops by Crooked to talk about COVID and mental health.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: But first. Two separate topics.
• 0:50
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: I mean, connected.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: Also connected.
• 0:53
  Speaker 4: Sure.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: But we'll talk about both. But first. I want everyone
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: to check out Crooked's newest podcast, one of my favorites
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: we've ever done. It's called Mother Country Radicals. Host Zayd
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: Ayers Dorn, the son of Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dorn,
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: takes us back to the 1970s when his parents and
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: their young friends in the weather underground declared war on
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: the United States government. Guys, this podcast is fantastic.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: Love it. Remember in 2008 when you and your buddies
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: at the Hillary Clinton campaign tried to demagogue Bill Ayers
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: and tie him around Barack Obama's neck as.
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: Some sort of political problem? Well, I just think it's
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: interesting what role Barack Obama plays in this series.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: Also, we find out from this series that it was
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: quite a gendered attack. Bernadine Doran was actually the... She
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: was on the FBI's most wanted list. She was the
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: most wanted woman in America.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: It's such a good show.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: It's such a good show. There's explosions everywhere. There's orgies.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: There's 1960s radicals. It goes through a couple decades. There's
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: a lot of politics.
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: It's very good, guys.
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: Orgies? Did you say the orgies?
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: There's orgies.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: You mentioned it?
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: Our development team wanted me to make sure I got
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: that in there.
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: Included the orgies?
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they wanted to make sure I got that.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: Seems like you did your job.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: I did it.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: What a word of that era.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: Of that era? People don't say orgies anymore?
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: I just... It feels... You know, I don't know. Remember
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: Madison Cawthorn? That was like a week ago.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah. We played it every live show. Anyway. We have
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: more cool news to share, guys. We are launching our
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: very own book imprint called Crooked Media Reads.
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: Love it.
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: It's called Crooked Media Reads because that's what could clear legally.
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: You'd be amazed at how hard it is to name
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: something these days.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: What with... What with.
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: All the different things out there. All those trial lawyers.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: So Crooked Media Reads is going to begin publishing titles
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: in 2023. We are very excited to work with and
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: lift up brilliant authors who are out there telling stories
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: that are inspiring, fun, entertaining, challenging. Might even get me
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: to start reading again.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: Can't believe it when I see it.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's it. Well, now it's a stretch. It's a stretch.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: But hopefully Crooked Media Reads and so do I.
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll know when you've successfully gone offline when you...
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: Bring in a dog-eared copy of some kind of a book.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: It has to be dog-eared? Yeah, that means you read it.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: That means you read it. Okay. Or you bought it used.
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: That's a classic reader thing.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: To learn more, to learn more than the fantastic endorsement
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: we just provided.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: Crooked Media Reads.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: You can go to crooked.com slash reads and check it out.
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: Let's get to the news. Episode two of Insurrection aired
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: on Monday morning. And the theme of this hearing was
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: that Donald Trump inspired the attack on the Capitol and
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: and scammed his own supporters out of $ 250 million by
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: repeating the lie that the 2020 election was stolen, despite
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: being told over and over again that there was no
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: evidence of voter fraud or irregularities by Trump's own campaign manager,
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: his campaign lawyers, White House staff, White House lawyers, and
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: officials at the Department of Justice, including Attorney General Bill Barr,
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: who was the real star of Monday show let's take
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: a listen.
• 4:03
  Speaker 4: I made it clear I did not agree with the
• 4:06
  Speaker 4: idea of saying the election was stolen and putting out
• 4:09
  Speaker 4: this stuff which I told the president was bullshit bullshit
• 4:12
  Speaker 4: and we're bullshit and they were idiotic claims complete nonsense
• 4:17
  Speaker 4: completely bogus and silly and usually based on complete misinformation
• 4:21
  Speaker 4: I saw absolutely zero basis for the allegations I told
• 4:25
  Speaker 4: them that it was crazy stuff and they were wasting
• 4:28
  Speaker 4: their time on.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: Bill Barr Welcome to the recess.
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: What do you call that? Like a swoosh cut?
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: I like it.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: I like it too.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: Let's start with general reactions. What, if anything, was new
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: or surprising in Monday's hearing to you guys?
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: Tommy? I would sort of put the whole hearing less
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: in the new and surprising than powerful to hear it
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: from these people. Bucket, hearing Bill Barr talk about just
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: how nonsensical the fraud claims were was powerful. There were
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: a whole bunch of folks at the DOJ saying the
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: same thing. All of Trump's senior staff were telling him
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: that there was no election fraud, or at least not
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: enough to swing the election, and he decided to believe
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: the crazy people. It was fun hearing, I guess it
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: wasn't new either, that Rudy is constantly drunk. He's a
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: bibulous lawyer. I love that they all think that Dinesh
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: D'Souza is a complete clown. I thought that was fun.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: The amount of money.
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: You want to tell people who Dinesh D'Souza is, just
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: in case?
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: Right-wing documentarian and quotes slash criminal. Mm-hmm. Um, who has been, uh,
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: resuscitated by the, the Trump ilk. Um, the amount of
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: money late raised by the election law was new. Uh,
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: here's something new that I learned. What word? Uh, the word, uh,
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: it's a great word. It's like a state of near
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: constant drunkenness. Uh, learn that today from Tommy just now
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: from my uncle. You know, when, so Bill Stepien was
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: supposed to testify in person today, but his wife went
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: into labor, if you believe the news. That was an
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: eye roll. Actually, you know what it is?
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: I performed air quotes. My fingers didn't have to do it,
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: but you felt them.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: That's acting. That's the training.
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: But the point is, people thought, oh, he must be
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: pulling out because he's obviously a Trumpy guy. He's not
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: only Trump's campaign manager, but of.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: Course he doesn't pull out. I didn't even make that joke.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: The point is the... Was there a point? Here's the point.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: We're all waiting.
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: When Bill Stepien got backed out of the hearing for
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: a legitimate reason, fucking freaks. And when he was first announced,
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: people thought, oh, this might be a hostile person because
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: obviously he's still Trumpy. Not only did he work for Trump,
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: obviously he's now gone on to represent people like Liz
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: Cheney's primary opponent. It was actually surprising how direct this
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: very sleazy and disgusting person was in saying, I didn't
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: believe these claims. I couldn't stand by these claims. That
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: was that was, I think, more than people even expected
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: this morning.
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: I felt the same way. A lot of these quotes
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: or accounts from former Trump staff, former White House staff,
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: campaign staff, they have been reported in the past here
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: and there. But it's different to like read in The
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: New York Times that a source said that Barr thinks
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: this or Barr is said to have said this and
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: just hear it. in a deposition on television.
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: And hear Barr's tone, like mocking it.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: Mocking, yeah.
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: Mocking the allegations as ridiculous and absurd.
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know, Barr was the star witness. Stepien
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: was the other star witness who ended up appearing in
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: a prerecorded video.
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: Clay Thompson.
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they got prerecorded videos of everyone just in case
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: something happened, like your partner goes into labor.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: Barr's the Steph Curry. You think that Klay Thompson is Stepien?
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: Rudy's the Draymond Green. Okay. Hammered and just kicked people
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: in the balls. What do you think the committee's goal was?
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: What's happening, love? Are you okay?
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: We're just talking some basketball, talking some NBA playoffs.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: Hitting my head against the microphone. Oh, sorry.
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: What do you think the committee's goal was with these
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: witnesses and their testimony today? What do you think the
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: big lie day was all about?
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: Have at it, buddy. I.
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: I think they're telling a story, telling a story about
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: Trump's efforts to overturn the election, how it connects to
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: January 6th. And a big part of that story is
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: the manufacturing of a lie that the election was fraudulent
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: in some way. They ended the entire hearing by going
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: to something they hadn't done throughout the day, which is
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: they went back to January 6th and the people on the,
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: as part of the mob that's from the Capitol, all
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: of them regurgitating the claim's that Trump made. And so
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: this was a day about connecting the lies that the
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: people at the Capitol believed with the effort to manufacture
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: a reason for the coup over the preceding several months
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: and how few people actually provided Trump with any evidence
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: or reason to believe what he was telling these people,
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: making it clear that he was lying to them, he
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: was willfully lying to them, or that no reasonable person
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: could believe what Trump ultimately was claiming.
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they collected just about as many Trump campaign officials
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: and Trump administration officials and DOJ officials as they could.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: And they told the American people, we looked at every
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: single allegation of voter fraud. We looked at every single
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: election conspiracy, no matter how crazy it was. We knocked
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: all of them down. We debunked all of them. And
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: then we told Donald Trump that about every single allegation
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: and conspiracy over and over again. And he just didn't
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: care and he kept lying anyway, which I think is a,
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: you know, I think the closest, maybe the most damning
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: testimony in a way came from, there was that deputy,
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: former deputy AG, Robert Donahue, I guess his name was.
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that guy was great.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: And he was like, basically you would tell Trump that
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: his conspiracy is bullshit and wrong and he wouldn't fight
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: you on it. He'd just move on to the next one.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, we'll get to mindset and motive and
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: intent in a bit, but I do think it's relevant
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: to show the American people that Trump was ostracized two
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: versions of reality, one of which comports with actual reality.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: And it was told to him by the man he
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: made attorney general or vice president or deputy attorney general.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: He chose not to believe that one and instead went
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: with the craziest of the crazy people led by his
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: drunk lawyer, Rudy Giuliani.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: Even all the campaign hacks that worked for him, at
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: least with the government officials, you'd be like, oh, well,
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: they're in the government, you know?
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: Jason Miller.
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: Jason Miller, Bill Stepien, all these campaign hacks, right? Which
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: was like the dredge of the earth for the reelect.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: This is the C-team on the campaign.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: So Stepien told the committee that he was on, quote,
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: team normal within the Trump campaign because after the election, he, quote,
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: didn't think What was happening was necessarily honest or professional.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: Fun understatement.
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: Should we be thanking Bill Stepien and Bill Barr for
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: their heroic public service, guys?
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: No, I mean, also, Bill Barr is playing a little
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: fast and loose here with. his own behavior at the time.
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: I mean, he certainly was making comments that undercut people's
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: faith in vote by mail, for example, as the election
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: was happening.
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: In June, he gave an interview where he said that
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: vote by mail would give reason to believe that the
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: election would be flooded. He said could potentially be flooded
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: with fraudulent ballots. He was playing this game the whole time.
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: And also, I think it is good that we have
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: Bill Barr on the record. calling bullshit. But I am
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: skeptical that he was as emphatic and clear in his
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: meetings with Donald Trump as he is being in these
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: committees now.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: Bill Barr is a longtime member of the Republican establishment
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: and still wants to be a member of good standing
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: in this version of the Republican Party, which means that,
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: you know, he can say what he wants to say
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: about Donald Trump. But like, that's why he he resigned
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: with a letter of flowery praise to Donald Trump said
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: nothing until a year later when his book came out.
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: And is only telling us this now because he was
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: deposed under oath.
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: There is no human being that worked for Donald Trump
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: in November of 2020 that didn't know exactly who Donald
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: Trump is. You cannot claim to be an honest person.
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: who was Donald Trump's campaign manager, but it was just
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: too much once Lin Wood and the other goons started
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: showing up with their election fraud claims.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: I mean, Bill Barr, it took you until then to
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: realize that Trump was detached from reality? The, like, let's
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: inject bleach to cure COVID press conference didn't do that
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: for you? Right.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: Also, and then Bill Stepien. Bill Stepien's currently working for
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: Liz Cheney's MAGA primary challenger. That's what he's up to.
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: There's an element of the Stepians and bars and some
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: of these other Republicans that feels a little bit like,
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: you know the scene in.
• 12:40
  Speaker 5: Nope.
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: Oh, I'm sorry. I thought we were being really mean
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: to metaphors for no reason today. Sorry, keep going. I'm
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: sure this is going to be a winner.
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: Still stuck.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: The point I was going to make... What do you got?
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: The point I was going to make is only It
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: seems as though their real problem with people like Rudy,
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: with Lin Wood, with Sidney Powell, is they didn't have
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: the patina of professionalism, the gloss of seriousness that these
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: people require if they're going to participate in some kind
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: of national campaign of disinformation.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: They weren't effective enough coup plotters.
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But look, let's also just quickly point out that.
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: You'll never know the film analogy I was going to make.
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: You'll die without knowing. Everyone at home. What a loss.
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: Everyone at home will die without knowing. Speaking of dead inside,
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: Jared Kushner, I just love that his vibe on the
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: whole thing is like, He had like three months left
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: to the White House. He could have done the one
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: meaningful act for his entire time and stepped up and
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: helped like defend the country against this lunatic stepfather and
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: protect our democracy. And he did the bare minimum. He
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: was just out of town for as much as possible.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: I think we should, Lovett, what do you think, format
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: a little segment on PSA, a little music where we
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: cut to Tommy and he talks about Jared Kushner. I
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: just think it happens enough now. In each of these episodes,
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: we get a little Kushner update.
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: I'm not into it. I just like his Saudi kickback.
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: I'm not into it. $ 2 billion Saudi kickback.
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: It sounds boring to me. You've got an investigation.
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: It sounds boring to me. That's too much time. Too
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: much Tommy. Too much Tommy. This whole dialogue reminds me.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: Have you ever seen.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: Maybe if I did it, I would do it. You
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: want to do it? I think it'd be great if
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: I did it. Honestly, listener, this is actually a pretty
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: good window into how things go here.
• 14:23
  Speaker 7: Anyway.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: Helpful testimony.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: I can see that with me and the music.
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: To try to bring it back to the podcast.
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: He's like, OJ, what if I did it?
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: I do think, Bill, helpful testimony from horrible people.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: It's possible.
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: You know, Bill Barr gave helpful testimony. Bill Stepien gave
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: helpful testimony. They're still horrible people.
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: By the way, Bill Barr, too, even as he's saying
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: things that are helpful to hear, that you want to
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: hear unequivocal, plain as day, Trump was full of shit. God,
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: what an arrogant prick he still manages to be. You
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: still can't like him.
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: No. I mean, who's liking him?
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: Obviously, I never liked him, but even in the moment,
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: you can't help but remember what a fucking prick he is.
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: Lovett has asked us to rethink.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: I'm not asking him to rethink a goddamn thing.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: One person, certainly not on Team Normal, of course, was Rudy.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: Here's what we heard about him on Monday.
• 15:09
  Speaker 8: You will also hear testimony that President Trump rejected the
• 15:12
  Speaker 8: advice of his campaign experts on election night. and instead
• 15:16
  Speaker 8: followed the course recommended by an apparently inebriated Rudy Giuliani.
• 15:21
  Speaker 4: Was there anyone in that conversation who, in your observation,
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: had had too much to drink?
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: Mayor Giuliani.
• 15:30
  Speaker 5: And the mayor was definitely intoxicated.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: Was there a purpose to that other than the very
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: laudable public goal of just mocking Rudy Giuliani? I don't know.
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: It's a tough sell to find a legitimate reason. for
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: trying to embarrass Rudy Giuliani about his alcoholism. There is,
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: I suppose, if you blur your eyes as if you've
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: drank as much as Rudy Giuliani had been drinking, you
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: can say, oh, well, they're making the point that no
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: one reasonable could support what Trump is doing and the
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: only person who was telling him to go out there
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: and declare victory, was sloshed beyond recognition.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: That's perfectly reasonable. You just did it. Perfectly reasonable. The
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: one guy who told him to.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: The man is in crisis.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: The one guy who told himself to declare a winner
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: was hammered, and Trump said, sure. You know what, though?
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: He would tell him to declare a winner when he
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: wakes up sober in some room he doesn't recognize.
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: I mean, look, all you need to do is watch
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: Judge Jeanine's show in the last calendar year to know
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: Rudy was always drunk. I think that what this show is,
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: is that Rudy was visibly drunk to everyone and still
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: Trump chose to believe him despite being visibly drunk over
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: everybody else.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: It's an indictment of Trump, not Rudy.
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: It's character and judgment and decision making.
• 16:35
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: Meanwhile. Also, we're trying to put on a show here
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: for people.
• 16:38
  Speaker 9: I know.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: A little pizzazz. Rudy does seem like he's in crisis.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: I think we've got to give Rudy some help.
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: Well, then there was Rudy testimony where he's like, if
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: you put me in a small room with all the
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: ballots today and I hand counted them, I could find
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: you some fraud. That was not great. That was just
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: light of day testimony.
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: He's gone up there.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: So there's been a debate among legal experts and people
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: who play legal experts on Twitter about how much it
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: matters whether Trump knew he was lying about the election
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: or whether he genuinely believed his own bullshit. What do
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: you guys think?
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: I don't know, like different people say differently. Mindset does
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: matter to prove the intent of a criminal offense. But
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: like this also, it's hard to know. I don't know.
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: The big lie matters because if Trump could try to
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: show that he wasn't actually trying to do anything but
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: protest or use legal means to object to the results,
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: that might be compelling in some way or get him
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: out of some legal jeopardy. But I think it's clear
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: that he wasn't just trying to protest and wasn't just
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: trying to use legal means. I mean, they were trying
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: to do blatantly illegal or corrupt things to overturn the
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: results of the election. So I don't know. I'm not
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: entirely sure.
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: So, you know, there's some kind of dissensus about this among,
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: you know, prosecutor Twitter. But one point I've seen made
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: a few times is it is not necessary to prove
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: that Trump had this malevolent intent. But it's nice if
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: you're trying to tell a story. It's also important, I think,
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: if you're telling a story to the country. There was
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: a point that they made at some point in the hearing,
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: which I think gets at sort of What's most important,
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: which is not what Trump specifically believed, but rather that
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: no reasonable person could believe the story Trump was saying.
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: We don't need to be inside of Donald Trump's mind.
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: What we have is plenty of evidence that no one
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: reasonable could take the information and that Trump had been
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: given and come to the conclusion that this was fraud.
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: Um, Barbara McQuaid, who's a former federal prosecutor, uh, she
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: talked to Greg Sargent at the Washington Post about this.
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: And she said that all you need to do is
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: really prove willful blindness.
• 18:42
  Speaker 9: Yeah.
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: Which means if you close your eyes to the high
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: probability that a fact exists, you can't use that to
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: evade responsibility. So like the fact that, which is once again,
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: all these people telling Trump, it's a lie, it's wrong.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: It's a conspiracy. We looked into it. It's debunked. You
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: can't just pretend that none of that exists and then say, no, no,
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: I just believe myself.
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: It also isn't the first time you challenged the legitimacy
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: of the election. He told Ted Cruz that he stole
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: the Iowa caucuses. He was prepared to challenge the legitimacy
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: of the 2016 election. So this is a strategy, a pattern.
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: And then beyond the legal ramifications of this, which, you know,
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: we are not experts, the political ramifications, I think, are easier.
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: It doesn't matter if Donald Trump was consumed by a
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: completely idiotic delusion or a fucking liar.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: Either way, it's damning.
• 19:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this guy wants to run for president again in 2024.
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: So again, we're all interested in the legal outcome here,
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: but there's a political outcome that might be even more consequential.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: For the country. I think America Island's like, well, we
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: have the TVs on over at DOJ.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's been watching. I'm sure my prosecutors are watching, too.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: I hope so. I hope so, too.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: I hope they're doing some investigating, too. What's going on
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: over there? Dot those eyes, buddy. Representative Zoe Lofgren closed
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: the hearing by pointing out that the— this is just
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: a nice note at the end of the hearing in
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: her closing argument— pointed out that the Trump campaign raised
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: around $ 250 million from fundraising emails about voter fraud claims
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: that they knew to be false.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: That is so much money.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: And she later told reporters that the committee has evidence
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: that Trump and his family have personally benefited from these donations.
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: How big of a legal and or political issue is
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: that one, guys?
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: Not to put too fine a point on it, after
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: the hearing, Lofgren was asked about this, about the legal jeopardy,
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: and said, It's clear that he intentionally misled his donors,
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: asked them to donate to a fund that didn't exist,
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: and used the money raised for something other than what
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: he said. Now it's for someone else to decide whether
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: that's criminal or not.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: Merrick Garland, you watching now?
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: Hey, Merrick.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: Can you hear me now?
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: Hey, Merrick, can you hear me? Take that feather and
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: dip it in the ink, you slow fuck. Jesus Christ.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: What were we saying earlier about good information said in
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: an arrogant way and how that's really bad?
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: Well, it's the billboard.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: What are you talking about? Look around you at what
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: it's built.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: Look at how he's spreading himself out at the table.
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: You bet I am.
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: I'm taking up space.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: Hey, it's when a gay person does it, it's resistance.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: I like that Kim Guilfoyle, Don Jr. 's girlfriend at
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: the time, got paid $ 60, 000 to introduce Donald Trump Jr.
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: at the January 6th rally at the Ellipse before the riots.
• 21:27
  Speaker 9: $ 60, 000.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: So much money.
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: Two minutes. I mean, of course, they raised $ 100 million
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: in the first week. Of course, these grifters aren't going
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: to turn off the spigot. That alone is enough to
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: keep up the big lie with them.
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: It is. I like it as a political point, too,
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: because just like, hey, he's a fucking, he's scamming you.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: He's scamming all of you, right? Like, of course, the
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: hardcore supporters don't care. But, A lot of people out
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: there are like, oh, this guy did it. He's corrupt
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: in a whole bunch of different ways. He wanted to
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: hold on to power. He wanted to overturn the election.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: And he wanted to.
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: Make a buck.
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: Well, to the point that one of the Republican goobers
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: made in the hearing, which is, that's money that wasn't
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: going to elect Republicans.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: Trump doesn't care about electing Republican Republicans.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: Of course not.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: But that's the ultimate sin to a Bill Stepien. Yeah,
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: that's true.
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: So before we move on, some brand new polling out today.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: Politico Morning Consult says that 67% of all voters voted
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: think that the Justice Department should either definitely or probably
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: bring legal action against elected officials who have attempted to
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: overturn the results of an American election. Listening to that,
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: Merrick Garland?
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: Huh?
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: Hey.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: Hey, Merrick.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: Because he does make his prosecutorial decisions based on polls.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: That's what we want in an attorney general, right? I.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: I'm just saying. It's what you said.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: I'm joking. I'm not accusing you of anything.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: I'm just saying. Come on, man.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: Lovett, I know that you were digging into the cross
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: tabs of that poll. I had a questionnaire. It was like,
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: anything else surprising in the poll? Lovett's in our office
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: and he's like, I'm looking at the cross tabs of
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: this poll and I don't find any other interesting information.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: You have to understand.
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: You have to understand.
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: Tommy and I get John, John writes up some questions
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: and sometimes Tommy and I, we realized like, Oh, he
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: wants us to say he has, he has a goal here.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: They're looking for a message box.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: They're looking at the inbox. They're like, is Dan, is
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: no fight for message box?
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: Sometimes he's trying to steer the conversation. So I said,
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: let me, let me look at this poll, see if
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: I can find anything interesting. The only thing I will
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: say is, uh, I think the most important part about
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: that 67% number is that there's obviously strong democratic support.
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: There's also strong independent support. I have a, I have
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: a sneaking hunch that some of the Republicans, uh, when
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: they think it's Democrats.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's interesting.
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: So I think that 6-7 is a little bit, it's
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: capturing some Republicans who think Nancy Pelosi and Kamala Harris
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: should be in jail.
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: Or just sort of the hypothetical versus do you want
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: to re-litigate this old thing that you're sick of hearing about?
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: I think we might have a different answer. The number
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: that jumped out at me was asked how much of
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: the first hearing they watched live last week. 14% said
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: they watched the primetime hearing in full. 25% they watched
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: some of it. And 60% said they didn't watch any
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: of it.
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: That was the number that jumped out at me as well.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: That's a bummer, the last part. Although the ratings were
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: surprisingly huge. What, 20 million people watched the first one?
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: Huge ratings and still, in the context of the entire electorate,
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: seems small.
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's not like, you know, MASH final
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: episode high, but it's still pretty good.
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: Also, the vote impact number was in that same category of, eh,
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: which was 32% said that it would have a major
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: impact on their vote, 18% said minor, 50% no impact.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: I don't think that's necessarily too good or too bad.
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: It's about where I would have imagined.
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: I would also say, though, asking people what the impact
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: is of a hearing they haven't seen yet is a
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: little bit self-fulfilling.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because that 60% number, that's a lot of people
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: who haven't seen it yet.
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll tell you, some of that 14% and 20%
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: are fucking liars.
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: People lie. Oh, yes.
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: I caught a bunch of it, of course. Don't ask
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: me any other questions about it, but I saw a
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: fair amount of it.
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: They should have asked a question, have you heard about
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: it through news coverage?
• 24:51
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: Which is probably where most people are going to hear
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: about these hearings from.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: But if you want to watch them, the next January
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: 6th hearing is Wednesday, June 15th. And we will have
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: a live group thread starting at 10 a.m. Eastern, 7 a.m.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: Pacific.
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: You can find us at youtube.com slash crookedmedia. To check
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: it out. We'll all be there. We'll be all your
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: favorite Crooked Media hosts just jumping in and out of
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: the Slack channel.
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: Group thread is very fun, but I find myself far
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: more focused on what we're all saying in that than watching.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: I know, I noticed that too.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: I can do both. Everyone's just getting off jokes. Well,
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: the first one we watched, and I was not on
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: Twitter that much because we were all prepping for, it
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: was right before our live show in L.A. I found
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: that more impactful to watch without looking at a screen.
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: It was also, today's hearing, I'm glad it exists, but
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: I mean, I didn't need a second hour to tell
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: me that Trump was full of shit.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Well, there's going to be
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: a couple of those. I think Wednesday is going to
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: focus on the Justice Department and what he tried to
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: do with the Justice Department.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: I'm interested in that. I like how they're bringing in
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: new characters in The Witnesses and Members of Congress. This
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: is great, yeah. Zoe Lofgren's getting some shine today. Yeah,
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: like when Joey Pants showed up in The Sopranos.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: Members of Congress have never sat on live television so
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: quiet as the members on this panel.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, as I said.
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: This is like probably taxing their restraint.
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: If you gave Adam Schiff and Jamie Raskin coal, you
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: could have diamonds by the end of the week.
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: They're sitting there in silence. I'm just saying.
• 26:19
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: Members of Congress like to talk. No disrespect. But you
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: know what? It's honestly.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: Here's why I want to defend this because we've criticized
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: this for so long.
• 26:27
  Speaker 5: No, it's awesome.
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: I love it.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: Is that they all give these long speeches on television.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: It is the most disciplined I've ever seen members of Congress.
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: Very disciplined. Very effective. It's excellent. Good for them. We
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: should do some stupid shit too. We should do like
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: a best dressed, funniest aside.
• 26:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: Worst Zoom angle. Rudy Giuliani won worst Zoom angle today.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: Although Stepien's was not great either. Yeah. Well, the best...
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: sort of image to come out of it was the
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: photo of Bill Stepien kind of leaning back.
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: Emo Bill.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: Like he had his head against his high school locker
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: looking all emo.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he was sad.
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: It's like, why can't Team Normal get back to the
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: work we're meant to do, vilifying Muslims?
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: Team Normal are fucking assholes.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: When we come back, Tommy talks to Senator Chris Murphy
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: about the bipartisan gun safety deal he just announced with
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: 10 Republican senators.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: I am thrilled to welcome back to Pod Save America,
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut. He has been one of
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: the leaders of this effort to put together bipartisan legislation
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: designed to reduce gun violence. Senator, thank you so much
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: for joining the show.
• 27:35
  Speaker 5: Yeah, awesome to be with you. Thanks.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: So I know you've been working, I mean, you've been
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: working on this issue for years and years, but you've
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: been working intensively on this compromise package for the last
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: few weeks. Can you just walk us through kind of
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: what's in this framework agreement that you guys announced over
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: the weekend?
• 27:52
  Speaker 7: Well, first of all, I'm really grateful to all the
• 27:54
  Speaker 7: partners who made this happen. I just think that we
• 27:57
  Speaker 7: all sensed this anxiety, this fear, this urgency from parents
• 28:02
  Speaker 7: and kids, moms and dads back home that, frankly, I've
• 28:05
  Speaker 7: never felt before. In the wake of Uvalde, there was
• 28:07
  Speaker 7: just no option for failure here. And I'm glad that
• 28:11
  Speaker 7: Republicans felt that same thing.
• 28:13
  Speaker 5: But this is a breakthrough.
• 28:14
  Speaker 7: This is the biggest set of changes in the nation's
• 28:18
  Speaker 7: gun laws since the 1994 assault weapons ban. It's been
• 28:22
  Speaker 7: almost 30 years since we've done anything meaningful. And while
• 28:25
  Speaker 7: this is not clearly at the finish line yet. It
• 28:29
  Speaker 7: is the end of this three decades log jam. It's
• 28:33
  Speaker 7: not everything that I want, but it is life-saving. There
• 28:37
  Speaker 7: are five major gun provisions in this bill, not one,
• 28:40
  Speaker 7: not two, five. We're talking about building out red flag
• 28:44
  Speaker 7: laws all around the country that will allow us to
• 28:46
  Speaker 7: take weapons away from people that are a danger to
• 28:48
  Speaker 7: themselves or others. We closed this boyfriend loophole so that
• 28:53
  Speaker 7: every domestic abuser is prohibited from getting guns, not just spouses,
• 28:56
  Speaker 7: but also boyfriends. We have the first ever federal criminalization
• 29:01
  Speaker 7: of straw purchasing and gun trafficking that helps cut down
• 29:05
  Speaker 7: the illegal flow of weapons into our cities. We have
• 29:09
  Speaker 7: changes to the definition of a federal firearms dealer.
• 29:13
  Speaker 5: So more of these.
• 29:14
  Speaker 7: Folks that are selling at gun shows and selling online
• 29:17
  Speaker 7: have to do background checks. And then finally, we have
• 29:19
  Speaker 7: this sort of innovative approach to under 21 purchasers.
• 29:22
  Speaker 5: Obviously, I would have loved to ban assault weapons. I
• 29:25
  Speaker 5: would have loved to raise the age to purchase them.
• 29:27
  Speaker 7: But what we got agreement on is essentially a pause,
• 29:31
  Speaker 7: a kind of waiting period so that every under 21
• 29:34
  Speaker 7: buyer has to have a sort of more comprehensive background
• 29:38
  Speaker 7: check done, which means they won't leave the gun store
• 29:41
  Speaker 7: with a gun. And the local police department will get
• 29:43
  Speaker 7: a call so that these kids like the Uvalde shooter who,
• 29:46
  Speaker 7: you know, were police involved, will have, you know, the
• 29:50
  Speaker 7: opportunity for an intervention if they're in crisis and walking
• 29:53
  Speaker 7: into a gun store to buy a an AR-15. Now,
• 29:56
  Speaker 7: on top of that, I'll stop, but billions of dollars
• 29:59
  Speaker 7: in mental health funding. So we're going to make one
• 30:01
  Speaker 7: of the biggest investments in the nation's mental health system
• 30:04
  Speaker 7: in a very, very long time. So that's on top
• 30:07
  Speaker 7: of all of those gun changes. So it's a big deal.
• 30:09
  Speaker 7: It's kind of an old school compromise. And I'm really
• 30:13
  Speaker 7: thrilled to be able to try to push it forward.
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: I mean, listen, my personal bias here is I've been
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: watching this issue go unresolved for long enough that I'm
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: in the camp of We could do anything that saves
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: a single life. I am for it. I am a
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: little surprised. I mean, why do you think the people
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: you're negotiating with could get to these increased background check
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: provisions for people under 21 to buy an assault rifle
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: and not just raise the age to purchase one from
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: 18 to 21? I think that feels so minimal. And
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: I was just curious where that opposition came from.
• 30:46
  Speaker 7: Yeah, I don't know the answer to that. Listen, there's
• 30:50
  Speaker 7: Republican support for raising the age, but we spent the
• 30:55
  Speaker 7: last three weeks counting votes and realized that we probably
• 30:58
  Speaker 7: weren't going to get to 60 votes on raising the age.
• 31:01
  Speaker 5: I mean, Tommy, you know this.
• 31:02
  Speaker 7: This issue of AR-15s is a really complicated one for
• 31:10
  Speaker 7: Republicans and Republican voters. There's sort of an identity issue.
• 31:13
  Speaker 7: that people have attached to their ownership of these weapons
• 31:16
  Speaker 7: and their ability to get them without obstacle. I don't
• 31:21
  Speaker 7: quite understand it, but I know that that cultural connection
• 31:26
  Speaker 7: to the weapon does exist. And so anything that would
• 31:29
  Speaker 7: essentially stop a class of people from getting access to
• 31:33
  Speaker 7: that weapon was a bridge too far to cross right
• 31:36
  Speaker 7: now for Republicans. But here's my theory is that by
• 31:40
  Speaker 7: showing Republicans who vote for this, that there is political
• 31:44
  Speaker 7: benefit to supporting more restrictive gun laws and not much
• 31:49
  Speaker 7: political cost, it's going to make other changes much more
• 31:52
  Speaker 7: possible down the line, including potentially raising the age to 21.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I mean, on that cultural point, I remember
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: a Ted Cruz releasing a video a couple of years
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: ago where he thought it was cool to wrap bacon
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: around the muzzle of an assault rifle and cook it
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: through the heat. I mean, there's this weirdo stuff that
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: goes on. The bill creates these incentives for states to
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: enact red flag laws. Are there examples of states that
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: wanted to create these kinds of red flag laws or
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: intervention programs but didn't do so yet because of a
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: lack of funding?
• 32:20
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I think that's a good question.
• 32:22
  Speaker 7: And I think maybe the piece of this bill that
• 32:27
  Speaker 7: will be most impactful on convincing states to adopt red
• 32:30
  Speaker 7: flag laws is the depoliticization of red flag laws. This
• 32:34
  Speaker 7: will be Republicans and Democrats standing up and saying that
• 32:38
  Speaker 7: red flag laws save lives. and that both Republicans and
• 32:41
  Speaker 7: Democrats can get behind them. I think you're right that
• 32:44
  Speaker 7: in most states that don't have them, it's probably a
• 32:47
  Speaker 7: combination of funding, but also politics. And our hope is
• 32:51
  Speaker 7: to sort of make the political lift easier in states
• 32:55
  Speaker 7: that haven't adopted them. But we also know there are
• 32:58
  Speaker 7: 20 states that have them.
• 33:00
  Speaker 5: That's a lot of states. And in many states, they
• 33:02
  Speaker 5: don't work very.
• 33:03
  Speaker 7: Well because there isn't the funding necessary to teach law
• 33:07
  Speaker 7: enforcement and first responders, you know, what to do when
• 33:10
  Speaker 7: you see somebody in crisis and how to sort of
• 33:13
  Speaker 7: navigate the judicial process to take those guns away. So
• 33:16
  Speaker 7: even in states that have them, I think this law
• 33:18
  Speaker 7: will save lives because they'll get money. And I do
• 33:21
  Speaker 7: think that once you have high profile Republicans at the
• 33:24
  Speaker 7: national level standing up and supporting red flag laws, we'll
• 33:27
  Speaker 7: have a few more, maybe a lot more Republican states
• 33:30
  Speaker 7: that will pass them.
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: I mean, no one who has followed your work on
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: this issue, I think, would doubt your sincerity or your
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: commitment to getting something done. I know your connection to Newtown.
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: You literally wrote a book on the subject. Again, I'm
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: of the mind that doing something is better than doing nothing.
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: But I went to the LA March for Our Lives
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: march rally protest on Saturday. And what I heard from
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: the organizers there and teenage speakers were calls for a
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: full assault weapons ban. A young woman who had been
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: shot in a school shooting. Her best friend was sitting
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: next to her. Her friend was killed. She went and
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: hid in a classroom until she could get medical help.
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: What is your message to these young organizers who are
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: desperate for more to get done? I mean, how do
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: you make the argument to them that this bill will
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: break the logjam rather than give Republicans an excuse to say,
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: we don't actually have to do more. We just passed
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: a bill. What more do you want?
• 34:26
  Speaker 7: Well, I mean, listen, I would first make the argument
• 34:28
  Speaker 7: that this bill does save lives and that, you know,
• 34:33
  Speaker 7: we should be in the business of supporting legislation that
• 34:36
  Speaker 7: results in less homicides and less suicides.
• 34:38
  Speaker 5: And this bill undoubtedly does that. But second, I'd ask.
• 34:41
  Speaker 7: Folks that are skeptical about this to look at other
• 34:45
  Speaker 7: great social change movements and how they succeeded. None of
• 34:49
  Speaker 7: them got 80% or 100% of what they wanted in
• 34:53
  Speaker 7: the first bill that passed the United States Congress. In fact,
• 34:56
  Speaker 7: every single great social change movement that you read about
• 34:58
  Speaker 7: in the history books just got one win and then
• 35:02
  Speaker 7: another and then another. you know, states started adopting laws
• 35:07
  Speaker 7: to allow gay couples to marry, the marriage equality movement
• 35:10
  Speaker 7: didn't go away. It in fact gained steam because all
• 35:14
  Speaker 7: of a sudden you sort of had a taste of victory.
• 35:16
  Speaker 7: All of a sudden your opponents realized that there was
• 35:18
  Speaker 7: political benefit to voting with you.
• 35:20
  Speaker 5: Civil rights movement, the same thing. So I really believe that.
• 35:26
  Speaker 7: We have to pass something that is meaningful and impactful
• 35:29
  Speaker 7: We're not interested in checking boxes, but we should study
• 35:31
  Speaker 7: other change movements and know that victories beget victories and
• 35:36
  Speaker 7: that that is.
• 35:37
  Speaker 5: What's going to happen here.
• 35:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: You mentioned a couple of times this this hope that
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: this will change the political calculus for a lot of Republicans.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: How do you interpret the fact that, you know, of
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: the 10 Republicans that are part of this compromise? Four
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: of them are retiring and none of the rest are
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: up for reelection this year. I mean, like I know
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: that that is leading to some cynicism. I think that
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: this might change the political calculus on the right.
• 36:00
  Speaker 5: I know. I think people are just looking for reasons
• 36:02
  Speaker 5: to be cynical. I really do. I mean, I think
• 36:04
  Speaker 5: that that's not a helpful analysis.
• 36:08
  Speaker 7: It also is true that the 10 people, no matter
• 36:12
  Speaker 7: where they were in their election cycle, were the 10
• 36:15
  Speaker 7: that would most often engage in bipartisan discussions.
• 36:20
  Speaker 5: And it just so.
• 36:21
  Speaker 7: Happens that none of them are right now in their
• 36:24
  Speaker 7: election cycle. I think that you will see as this
• 36:27
  Speaker 7: bill moves forward, other Republicans, some of which who are
• 36:30
  Speaker 7: in cycle, ending up supporting it. So listen, I think
• 36:34
  Speaker 7: there is a need sometimes to filter everything through a
• 36:39
  Speaker 7: cynical lens, right? To just come to believe that Republicans
• 36:42
  Speaker 7: could never do this because of legitimate political pressure. But
• 36:48
  Speaker 7: that's what happened here. I mean, these folks came to
• 36:51
  Speaker 7: the table, Remember, none of this would have happened if
• 36:53
  Speaker 7: Mitch McConnell hadn't sort of given a permission structure for
• 36:56
  Speaker 7: these talks to happen. I think he felt the pressure
• 36:59
  Speaker 7: as well that was building out there.
• 37:02
  Speaker 5: And, you know, ultimately, I think that that's how democracy
• 37:05
  Speaker 5: is supposed to work.
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: So now we go from sort of framework agreement in
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: principle to putting it all on paper, writing out the
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: actual law. How delicate is that process? You know, how
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: much room is there for things to get mucked up?
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: And then, you know, some relatedly. Is there anything listeners
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: can do in this interim period to help support the
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: bill and help get it passed? Like, do you want
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: people calling members? Like, what can we do here?
• 37:29
  Speaker 5: No, I do. I mean, again, I think we can't
• 37:31
  Speaker 5: take this for granted.
• 37:32
  Speaker 7: It looks like we have 60 votes, but we've got
• 37:35
  Speaker 7: to hang on to the ones that we have. And,
• 37:37
  Speaker 7: you know, I do think to the extent that there
• 37:40
  Speaker 7: are a handful of Democrats who are sort of of
• 37:43
  Speaker 7: the belief that we shouldn't vote for anything and give
• 37:46
  Speaker 7: Republicans any kind of win on this. We do have
• 37:49
  Speaker 7: to convince folks that Saving lives is important, even if
• 37:51
  Speaker 7: you're not saving every life at one time. And of course,
• 37:55
  Speaker 7: there's the potential that this could all fall apart. You know,
• 37:58
  Speaker 7: probably the biggest gun group out there, Gun Owners of America,
• 38:03
  Speaker 7: just came out. strongly against this bill today. The right
• 38:08
  Speaker 7: is going to fight like hell to stop this. You've
• 38:11
  Speaker 7: already seen the sort of radicals in the House starting
• 38:14
  Speaker 7: to line.
• 38:14
  Speaker 5: Up against it.
• 38:15
  Speaker 7: So, you know, this is going to be hard to
• 38:18
  Speaker 7: get across the finish line. And so just because folks
• 38:20
  Speaker 7: see 10 Republicans signed up today doesn't mean that by
• 38:24
  Speaker 7: any means this is guaranteed passage. There's a reason why
• 38:28
  Speaker 7: it's been almost 30 years since a bill like this
• 38:31
  Speaker 7: has passed, because.
• 38:32
  Speaker 5: It's super difficult. Yeah.
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: Well, I hate the fact that I've been working in
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: politics long enough to see a series of mass shootings,
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: a series of conversations about how things were different, followed
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: by nothing legislatively. And so frankly, I'm Very excited at
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: the prospect that, you know, you guys have put together
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: this compromise that we could see something done. I'm grateful
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: to you and all the Republicans who had the courage
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: to come forward and work with you and the Democratic
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: side on this. So fingers crossed. We'll keep beating the
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: drums on this thing and encourage people to call senators
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: and members of Congress and everybody else because, you know,
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: saving one life matters.
• 39:08
  Speaker 5: Thanks, Tommy.
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: So one piece of the bipartisan gun safety deal that
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: Senator Murphy just spoke about is $ 7 billion in mental
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: health funding. Even before Uvalde, the Biden administration has been
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: sounding the alarm about the youth mental Well, thanks, guys.
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: It's good to be in person. This is fun.
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: This is great. See the uniform in person.
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: I think more government officials should have the full uniform.
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: Maybe we should have dressed up today.
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: Didn't make me realize that.
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: It's all good. You guys look good.
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: You're in Los Angeles talking about the youth mental health crisis,
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: which has been exacerbated by everything from the pandemic to
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: mass shootings now to social media. You've been focused on
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: this for a while. What have you found are the
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: most effective ways for parents and schools to help kids
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: who are having a hard time?
• 40:22
  Speaker 6: Well, I'm glad you asked, John. Look, I think kids
• 40:25
  Speaker 6: have been having a hard time for a long time.
• 40:27
  Speaker 6: Even before the pandemic, we know that kids were struggling.
• 40:31
  Speaker 6: In fact, in the decade before the pandemic, there was
• 40:33
  Speaker 6: a 57% increase in the suicide rate among young people.
• 40:37
  Speaker 6: And there was a 40% increase in the percentage of
• 40:40
  Speaker 6: high school kids who said they felt persistently sad or hopeless.
• 40:44
  Speaker 6: We know that kids were having a tough time before.
• 40:47
  Speaker 6: The pandemic made things worse. And I will tell you
• 40:49
  Speaker 6: also that these mass shootings, when they happen, they take
• 40:54
  Speaker 6: a toll on the mental health of kids as well.
• 40:57
  Speaker 6: Even if they're not directly involved, they traumatize an entire nation.
• 41:00
  Speaker 6: And those include our children. But there are steps that
• 41:03
  Speaker 6: we can take. I think, number one, getting more counselors
• 41:06
  Speaker 6: into our schools will make a difference. And that's something
• 41:08
  Speaker 6: President Biden has spoken a lot about, he directed ARP funds,
• 41:11
  Speaker 6: American Rescue Plan funds, to help do that, and he's
• 41:14
  Speaker 6: asked for more money to get more counselors in schools.
• 41:16
  Speaker 6: The other thing that's really important is that we help
• 41:20
  Speaker 6: make it easier for kids to access care. You know,
• 41:22
  Speaker 6: right now it takes on average 11 years for when
• 41:25
  Speaker 6: a child has symptoms to when they can actually get care.
• 41:28
  Speaker 6: That's an unacceptably long period of time. That's 11 years
• 41:31
  Speaker 6: when a child is struggling more. And think about this,
• 41:33
  Speaker 6: as a parent, to see your child struggling and to
• 41:36
  Speaker 6: not be able to help is one of, I believe,
• 41:38
  Speaker 6: one of the worst feelings a parent can have. And
• 41:39
  Speaker 6: that's what a lot of parents are going through. So
• 41:41
  Speaker 6: we've got to improve access to care. And we can
• 41:43
  Speaker 6: do that using a combination of technology, expanding the workforce,
• 41:47
  Speaker 6: and also revamping our what's called a parity law to
• 41:52
  Speaker 6: ensure that the networks through which people get care are
• 41:54
  Speaker 6: actually adequate. But the last thing I'll just mention is this. Look,
• 41:58
  Speaker 6: there's a lot that we have to do. But one
• 42:00
  Speaker 6: thing I just want to say to parents directly is
• 42:02
  Speaker 6: that I can't underscore how important it is in moments
• 42:05
  Speaker 6: like this that your child knows that you love them
• 42:08
  Speaker 6: and that you're there for them. And that seems like
• 42:10
  Speaker 6: such a simple thing to say, but moments like this,
• 42:13
  Speaker 6: when a child experiences a mass shooting or hears about it,
• 42:17
  Speaker 6: or when they're bullied online or experience any other form
• 42:20
  Speaker 6: of trauma, it rocks their world and they need their
• 42:23
  Speaker 6: foundation reinforced. And as parents, many times we are that
• 42:26
  Speaker 6: foundation for our kids. So it may not seem like
• 42:29
  Speaker 6: it's solving all their problems, but knowing that you're their rock,
• 42:32
  Speaker 6: knowing that you're there, knowing that you can start a
• 42:34
  Speaker 6: conversation about mental health with them, even if they don't
• 42:36
  Speaker 6: say anything, they know that you're somebody that they can
• 42:39
  Speaker 6: talk to and you're setting an example in how to
• 42:41
  Speaker 6: talk about mental health and telling them it's okay to
• 42:43
  Speaker 6: get help. These are powerful roles we can play as
• 42:46
  Speaker 6: parents and they're more important right now than ever.
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: You mentioned online bullying. One thing that has risen in
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: the 10 years in which we've seen this increase in depression,
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: suicide attempts in social media, even internally we've seen leaks
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: that at Facebook they were aware that Instagram has incredibly
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: negative consequences for self-esteem.
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: How much do you.
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: Attribute this crisis to social media and the effects it's
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: had on young people?
• 43:13
  Speaker 6: Well, I think social media is part of the problem
• 43:17
  Speaker 6: here for some kids. Not for all kids. I think
• 43:20
  Speaker 6: some kids are actually benefited by social media. They find
• 43:24
  Speaker 6: community that they otherwise wouldn't have had, especially if they're
• 43:27
  Speaker 6: part of a group that's underrepresented. But for other kids,
• 43:30
  Speaker 6: it's been harmful. It's hurt their self-esteem. It's negatively impacted
• 43:35
  Speaker 6: their relationships with their friends. And it's contributed to this
• 43:38
  Speaker 6: culture of comparison, which is the experience of comparing your
• 43:44
  Speaker 6: average days to other people's best days. That's what social
• 43:46
  Speaker 6: media is like for a lot of people.
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: That's what Instagram is. That's what it's supposed to be for. Right.
• 43:50
  Speaker 6: And even though you know that there are other parts
• 43:55
  Speaker 6: of people's lives they're not posting online, it still makes
• 43:58
  Speaker 6: a lot of kids feel worse about their lives. And
• 44:00
  Speaker 6: I say that not because it's theoretical, because this is
• 44:02
  Speaker 6: actually literally what kids tell me as I do roundtables
• 44:04
  Speaker 6: across the country. And I ask them about their mental
• 44:07
  Speaker 6: health and about social media. And a lot of times
• 44:09
  Speaker 6: when talking about social media, they say, we feel like
• 44:11
  Speaker 6: we have to keep using it, but it makes us
• 44:13
  Speaker 6: feel worse about ourselves. And it makes us not feel
• 44:17
  Speaker 6: as good about our friendships because we think that we're
• 44:19
  Speaker 6: really good friends with someone. And then we see online
• 44:21
  Speaker 6: that there are parties and doing all this stuff without us.
• 44:23
  Speaker 6: And then they didn't even tell us about it. So
• 44:25
  Speaker 6: I do think it's a, it's a complicated and sometimes negative,
• 44:28
  Speaker 6: like a factor, but I think what has to happen
• 44:30
  Speaker 6: as a result of this, and frankly, which should have
• 44:33
  Speaker 6: happened long before, is that we need technology platforms to
• 44:37
  Speaker 6: be open and transparent with the data about what's happening
• 44:41
  Speaker 6: to our kids. Companies have a lot of data. They're
• 44:44
  Speaker 6: not necessarily sharing a lot of that data. And this
• 44:46
  Speaker 6: is actually what independent researchers tell us. People have been
• 44:48
  Speaker 6: studying tech and the impact of mental health for kids
• 44:50
  Speaker 6: for a long time. They say, we cannot get the
• 44:53
  Speaker 6: data from the companies. And privacy, you can share data
• 44:57
  Speaker 6: and trends while still protecting user privacy. So that's not
• 45:00
  Speaker 6: and shouldn't be an excuse here. But I do think
• 45:03
  Speaker 6: that what has happened is we've had this national experiment
• 45:05
  Speaker 6: that's been conducted on our kids, and frankly, on all
• 45:08
  Speaker 6: of us, where we put social media platforms out into
• 45:10
  Speaker 6: the ether. We saw rapid adoption. Now billions of people
• 45:13
  Speaker 6: are using them. And oops, we didn't actually understand what
• 45:16
  Speaker 6: impact they had on our mental health and well-being. And
• 45:19
  Speaker 6: it's long past time for us to get the data
• 45:21
  Speaker 6: to help us understand what that is. And finally, I
• 45:23
  Speaker 6: think this is true as well. I think if you're
• 45:25
  Speaker 6: a platform, you also have to ask yourself, what is
• 45:27
  Speaker 6: my responsibility here to make sure that what I'm putting
• 45:30
  Speaker 6: out into the world isn't harming other people? And so
• 45:33
  Speaker 6: I think companies have a responsibility to, whether it's designing
• 45:36
  Speaker 6: their algorithms, whether it's designing the platforms themselves, to think
• 45:40
  Speaker 6: about how they can contribute to the well-being of children,
• 45:43
  Speaker 6: as opposed to just focusing on the amount of time
• 45:45
  Speaker 6: that's spent on their platform. It should be about time
• 45:47
  Speaker 6: well spent, not just time spent.
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: But is it unsafe at any speed? Do you think
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: Instagram is safe at any speed for kids? Do you
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: think there's a version of this kind of comparison that
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: kids can be doing online every single day that won't contribute?
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: to the detriment of their mental health?
• 46:03
  Speaker 6: Well, I think that's why the answer to that question
• 46:06
  Speaker 6: is to be borne out by data, right? We've got
• 46:08
  Speaker 6: to understand what data tells us about what is safe
• 46:11
  Speaker 6: and in what form it's safe. Like, I know, for example,
• 46:14
  Speaker 6: that where I feel pretty strongly that if I were
• 46:17
  Speaker 6: to show up to this interview and as I actually
• 46:20
  Speaker 6: do have on my phone with pictures of my kids, right?
• 46:24
  Speaker 6: And I show you pictures of my kids and maybe
• 46:26
  Speaker 6: those pictures involve a vacation that we took last year.
• 46:30
  Speaker 6: Is this episode going to adversely impact your mental health? Well,
• 46:33
  Speaker 6: maybe it'll make you feel great. Maybe part of you
• 46:35
  Speaker 6: will be like, gosh, I wish I could go on
• 46:36
  Speaker 6: a vacation, right? But we know that this is a
• 46:38
  Speaker 6: normal part of human interaction that we've had. I'd be pissed.
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: I'd be furious.
• 46:43
  Speaker 6: That's why I'm not a mocking microphone to show to you.
• 46:45
  Speaker 6: So the point is in small doses, I think, and
• 46:48
  Speaker 6: with context and with relationships, we can absorb a lot
• 46:51
  Speaker 6: of these instances where we may have a bit of
• 46:54
  Speaker 6: comparison here or there. I think part of the challenge
• 46:57
  Speaker 6: is the sheer volume with which it happens on social
• 47:00
  Speaker 6: media and the utter lack of context. Like if we were,
• 47:03
  Speaker 6: if I were to show you these pictures, you and I,
• 47:06
  Speaker 6: because we're in person and we're having conversation and we
• 47:09
  Speaker 6: have a bit of a relationship here, I might also
• 47:11
  Speaker 6: talk to you about the fact that, yeah, we went
• 47:12
  Speaker 6: on that vacation, but it was pretty tough. Maybe it
• 47:14
  Speaker 6: was financially challenging for our family, or maybe we got sick,
• 47:18
  Speaker 6: you know, on the trip and it really kind of
• 47:19
  Speaker 6: sucked in the end and it wasn't worth it. Like
• 47:21
  Speaker 6: we may have a more nuanced conversation. That nuance is
• 47:24
  Speaker 6: utterly missing often on social media. You're just purely seeing
• 47:27
  Speaker 6: the highlights of without the context in people's lives. And
• 47:30
  Speaker 6: I think context is everything.
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry I had such a bad time. You're up next.
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: No, it is the difference also between watching screens together
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: as a family and then doing it separately, right? Because
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: then you can have that context and that conversation there.
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about vaccines. At long last, the FDA has
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: said that both Moderna and Pfizer's vaccines are effective in
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: kids under five. There's the hope that The FDA and
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: CDC will authorize both maybe by the end of this week,
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: if not very soon. I know there's millions of parents
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: who can't wait to get their kids vaccinated. There still
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: might be others who aren't sure about their under five kids.
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: What would you say to them?
• 48:09
  Speaker 6: Well, look, I say this not just as a surgeon,
• 48:11
  Speaker 6: but as a parent of a child who's under five.
• 48:13
  Speaker 6: My daughter's four. And look, I've been waiting to get
• 48:17
  Speaker 6: her vaccinated, too. But what I'd say is the most
• 48:19
  Speaker 6: important thing is for parents to make sure that they
• 48:21
  Speaker 6: have the information they need. to make a decision for
• 48:25
  Speaker 6: their child. And that means that they have to understand
• 48:27
  Speaker 6: two critical things. One is, is this vaccine safe? And
• 48:30
  Speaker 6: is it effective for my child? Where you get that
• 48:33
  Speaker 6: information from really matters because there is a tremendous amount
• 48:36
  Speaker 6: of misinformation out there. This is actually a top, it
• 48:39
  Speaker 6: was a topic of my very first Surgeon General's advisory
• 48:41
  Speaker 6: was health misinformation because it's been so rife during the
• 48:44
  Speaker 6: COVID crisis. But we wanna make sure people are getting
• 48:48
  Speaker 6: info from credible sources. So that means your own doctor,
• 48:51
  Speaker 6: or the nurse who's involved in taking care of your family.
• 48:53
  Speaker 6: It means your children's hospital, your local department of health.
• 48:56
  Speaker 6: It means the CDC or the FDA. What's going to
• 48:59
  Speaker 6: happen this week is that the FDA's advisory group is
• 49:02
  Speaker 6: meeting to discuss the data. That data will be public.
• 49:06
  Speaker 6: The FDA will then render a formal, you know, sort
• 49:10
  Speaker 6: of authorization for the vaccine if they think the data
• 49:13
  Speaker 6: merits it. And then after that, the CDC will then
• 49:16
  Speaker 6: render its recommendation. And then after that, it will be available.
• 49:18
  Speaker 6: But all of the people who know that the operational
• 49:21
  Speaker 6: work of making sure that the vaccine will be available
• 49:24
  Speaker 6: in pharmacies, doctor's offices, community health centers, that work and
• 49:28
  Speaker 6: planning has been going on for weeks and months now,
• 49:32
  Speaker 6: because we want to make sure as soon as the
• 49:34
  Speaker 6: FDA and CDC give the signal that the vaccine will
• 49:36
  Speaker 6: be available to parents.
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: Obviously, if you're an adult and you've had COVID, you
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: should still get vaccinated. Is the same true for kids
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: under five? If you've had a kid under five who's
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: had COVID, you should still go seek the vaccine if
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: it's authorized.
• 49:48
  Speaker 6: That's certainly a safe thing to do because what we
• 49:50
  Speaker 6: know is that having prior infection gives you some protection,
• 49:53
  Speaker 6: but we've seen already that that protection doesn't always last.
• 49:57
  Speaker 6: So even, for example, if you got the first wave
• 50:00
  Speaker 6: of Omicron, BA1 as it's called, as I did and
• 50:03
  Speaker 6: my family did, you can't necessarily guarantee that especially in
• 50:07
  Speaker 6: the absence of a prior vaccine, that you have great
• 50:09
  Speaker 6: protection now against the newer sub-variants that are coming out.
• 50:13
  Speaker 6: So that's why getting vaccinated is still a good idea.
• 50:16
  Speaker 6: But the bottom line is throughout this pandemic, the vaccines
• 50:18
  Speaker 6: have demonstrated that they're really effective at keeping you out
• 50:21
  Speaker 6: of the hospital and saving your life. That's the most
• 50:23
  Speaker 6: important job of a vaccine. You may still get an
• 50:26
  Speaker 6: infection if you're vaccinated, but it will likely be mild
• 50:29
  Speaker 6: or in some cases even asymptomatic. So that's why I
• 50:31
  Speaker 6: would still recommend people vaccinate their child. That's why I'll
• 50:34
  Speaker 6: take my four-year-old also. to get vaccinated when it's available.
• 50:37
  Speaker 3: So in April, the administration put out a warning that
• 50:39
  Speaker 3: said without additional funding from Congress, they wouldn't be able
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: to buy boosters for the fall. Last week, they said
• 50:44
  Speaker 3: they were moving money around to pay for boosters, but
• 50:46
  Speaker 3: that would require cutting money for tests, scaling back some
• 50:49
  Speaker 3: money for research. What's the latest on making sure that
• 50:53
  Speaker 3: we're going to have boosters we need this fall right now?
• 50:57
  Speaker 6: Yeah, it's a good question. This is something we should
• 50:59
  Speaker 6: not have had to do, take money from critical pots
• 51:02
  Speaker 6: to buy more vaccines and therapeutics. And let me just
• 51:06
  Speaker 6: be clear about what we're taking money away from. We're
• 51:08
  Speaker 6: taking money away from buying more tests. We're taking money
• 51:11
  Speaker 6: away from supporting domestic manufacturing of vaccines and tests, which
• 51:17
  Speaker 6: are both really critical. We're taking money away from research
• 51:21
  Speaker 6: into the next generation COVID vaccine. People have been talking
• 51:24
  Speaker 6: about having what's called a pan-coronavirus vaccine. We'd love to
• 51:28
  Speaker 6: get there as soon as possible. We are now literally
• 51:29
  Speaker 6: taking money away from that.
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: That's stupid.
• 51:31
  Speaker 6: Yeah, it doesn't make sense. And these are lessons we
• 51:34
  Speaker 6: should have learned from prior pandemics. So right now, with
• 51:37
  Speaker 6: the funds that we have taken from other pots, we're
• 51:40
  Speaker 6: able to start to get in line. Because keep in mind,
• 51:44
  Speaker 6: other countries have been getting in line to buy vaccines
• 51:46
  Speaker 6: for the fall. We haven't been able to do that
• 51:48
  Speaker 6: because of the lack of funds, which is really terrible.
• 51:51
  Speaker 6: So now at least we're able to start getting in line.
• 51:53
  Speaker 6: But even now, we don't have enough money to guarantee
• 51:57
  Speaker 6: that every American who needs a vaccine in the fall
• 52:00
  Speaker 6: will have one. So we still need Congress to come
• 52:02
  Speaker 6: forward and to provide the funding for that. Even like
• 52:06
  Speaker 6: some of the funds that we pulled aside, for example,
• 52:08
  Speaker 6: they're not only being used for vaccines and therapeutics like Paxlovid,
• 52:11
  Speaker 6: but also for another therapeutic called the monoclonal antibody, right?
• 52:14
  Speaker 6: We only have enough to buy five weeks more of
• 52:16
  Speaker 6: monoclonal antibodies. So we're blessed as a country to have
• 52:21
  Speaker 6: had the experience and the resources to tackle COVID-19, this
• 52:24
  Speaker 6: is not the time to take our eye off the ball.
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: I know that this is a big fight with Republicans
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: in Congress. I've been wondering this. Is it possible to
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: do this through reconciliation?
• 52:37
  Speaker 6: That's a good question. I don't know if it's possible
• 52:41
  Speaker 6: to do this through reconciliation. I would defer to others
• 52:45
  Speaker 6: who are more expert in sort of budget and sort
• 52:47
  Speaker 6: of policy in this regard. But what I do think, though,
• 52:51
  Speaker 6: is it shouldn't have to come to that. This should be,
• 52:54
  Speaker 6: we actually, and this is what, when I talk to
• 52:56
  Speaker 6: people around the country, this is what they don't understand,
• 52:58
  Speaker 6: the general public. They say, wait, tell me this again.
• 53:01
  Speaker 6: We spent two years developing extraordinary treatments and vaccines, and
• 53:06
  Speaker 6: we proved through real-world experience that they've saved so many
• 53:09
  Speaker 6: lives and prevented millions of people from ending up in
• 53:11
  Speaker 6: the hospital, but now we're not going to make them
• 53:14
  Speaker 6: available to people anymore. It just doesn't make sense to
• 53:16
  Speaker 6: people because it just doesn't make sense.
• 53:18
  Speaker 3: What's the status of an Omicron-specific booster for the fall?
• 53:22
  Speaker 6: So there is now data on Omicron, what we call
• 53:26
  Speaker 6: the bivalent vaccine. So they include both the sort of
• 53:30
  Speaker 6: original version and an Omicron variant together. And the data is,
• 53:34
  Speaker 6: at least provided by the company, seems to be promising
• 53:38
  Speaker 6: that these actually are effective, you know, in reducing the
• 53:42
  Speaker 6: likelihood of people end up in the hospital or that
• 53:44
  Speaker 6: they may lose their life. But the truth is... We've
• 53:48
  Speaker 6: got to see that data. And this is something I
• 53:51
  Speaker 6: just want to sort of be cautious about is a
• 53:54
  Speaker 6: lot of times companies will put out press releases based
• 53:57
  Speaker 6: on their interpretation of the data. And while we should
• 54:00
  Speaker 6: understand what that is, it's only when that data is
• 54:02
  Speaker 6: made publicly available, it's only when it's looked at and
• 54:04
  Speaker 6: examined closely by the FDA and the CDC that we
• 54:07
  Speaker 6: can truly understand make a decision about whether it is
• 54:10
  Speaker 6: worth purchasing and recommending for people around the country. So
• 54:13
  Speaker 6: my hope is that it will be, but we got
• 54:15
  Speaker 6: to see.
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: The data first.
• 54:16
  Speaker 3: I believe everything Pfizer and Moderna says, always have. Do
• 54:19
  Speaker 3: you think these, would this bivalent booster be effective against
• 54:23
  Speaker 3: like BA4 and BA5 and some of these newer variants?
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: Do we know?
• 54:27
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 54:27
  Speaker 6: So that is an interesting question and there will likely
• 54:29
  Speaker 6: be some level of cross-protection in this, at least against
• 54:32
  Speaker 6: severe disease, you know, hospitalization and death. But how much
• 54:36
  Speaker 6: And in particular, how much cross protection they may be
• 54:39
  Speaker 6: against preventing mild and moderate infections. That part's not clear yet.
• 54:42
  Speaker 6: And this is really one of the challenges, John, is
• 54:44
  Speaker 6: that the variants are evolving pretty quickly. But again, one
• 54:47
  Speaker 6: thing that I want people to feel reassured about is
• 54:50
  Speaker 6: that what we've seen throughout is that even when you're
• 54:52
  Speaker 6: vaccinated with the original version of Omicron, that these vaccines
• 54:56
  Speaker 6: still seem to be very effective in keeping you out
• 54:58
  Speaker 6: of the hospital and saving your life.
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: So a lot of people I talk to who are
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: fully boosted are still not living their pre-pandemic lives because
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: they are afraid of getting long COVID. And not just
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: long COVID symptoms that last for weeks or a couple
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: of months, which is bad enough, but like potentially a
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: disabling case of long COVID that leaves them disabled over
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: the long term. What's the latest research say about the
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: chances of that happening? And what is the federal government
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: doing about it?
• 55:30
  Speaker 6: Yeah, it is really one of the still unanswered questions.
• 55:35
  Speaker 6: That is, it's vaccine, it's frustrating because if we had
• 55:38
  Speaker 6: the data about how common this is and who's particularly
• 55:41
  Speaker 6: at risk for it, that would be really helpful, right?
• 55:43
  Speaker 6: And people could adjust their risk accordingly.
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: These studies are like all over the place. There's like
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: a study that's like, it's 2%, it's up to 10%,
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: it's 40%. You're like, the numbers are just all over
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: the place.
• 55:52
  Speaker 6: That's right. And that's why actually one of the things
• 55:54
  Speaker 6: that the federal government has done is the NIH has
• 55:56
  Speaker 6: actually dedicated you know, specific and the whole initiative to
• 56:00
  Speaker 6: long COVID, where they are actually doing a study to
• 56:02
  Speaker 6: understand exactly this. What is their frequency and who's at risk?
• 56:05
  Speaker 6: It's also why President Biden actually directed the Department of
• 56:08
  Speaker 6: Health and Human Services to put together a couple of
• 56:11
  Speaker 6: reports in short order to help patients understand what services
• 56:15
  Speaker 6: were available to them if they were in fact struggling
• 56:17
  Speaker 6: with long COVID. Because we want to do, and the
• 56:19
  Speaker 6: government administration is doing everything possible to make sure that
• 56:22
  Speaker 6: people who do have long COVID have the support that
• 56:25
  Speaker 6: they need. That's incredibly important. But to your original question, John,
• 56:28
  Speaker 6: the question, it comes down to, though, how do I
• 56:31
  Speaker 6: manage in the interim, right, if I'm out there? And
• 56:35
  Speaker 6: this is tough. Look, we know that the majority of
• 56:37
  Speaker 6: people at this point who seem to get COVID seem
• 56:40
  Speaker 6: to recover, right? That is good news. And we've also
• 56:44
  Speaker 6: seen from some earlier studies that long COVID tends to
• 56:48
  Speaker 6: occur more often when people have more severe illnesses, when
• 56:53
  Speaker 6: they have, you know, are in the hospital for a
• 56:56
  Speaker 6: long period of time. And again, some of this, not
• 56:58
  Speaker 6: to get into the nitty gritty of the data, but
• 57:00
  Speaker 6: when people are hospitalized for a long period of time,
• 57:01
  Speaker 6: they tend to have longer symptoms anyway, whether they're hospitalized
• 57:04
  Speaker 6: for pneumonia or something else. So how much of that
• 57:06
  Speaker 6: is just the sequelae or the consequences of being seriously
• 57:10
  Speaker 6: ill versus actual long COVID? That's part of what's being
• 57:12
  Speaker 6: teased apart. So what I would say is that if
• 57:16
  Speaker 6: you're somebody who's vaccinated and if you're boosted, if you've
• 57:19
  Speaker 6: got higher risk people at home who you're worried about
• 57:22
  Speaker 6: who might be immunocompromised, if you yourself are immunocompromised, it
• 57:25
  Speaker 6: makes sense to probably still be cautious in your approach,
• 57:30
  Speaker 6: whether that means avoiding high-risk activities or testing before you
• 57:34
  Speaker 6: engage in activities or wearing a mask when you're in
• 57:37
  Speaker 6: public indoor spaces. If you're not worried about your own
• 57:40
  Speaker 6: health because you don't have other medical conditions or if
• 57:43
  Speaker 6: you're not living with someone who's a particular high risk,
• 57:45
  Speaker 6: then this is a time where I think being able
• 57:47
  Speaker 6: to pull back on some of those precautions, especially if
• 57:50
  Speaker 6: you're boosted, is reasonable if your primary goal is to
• 57:54
  Speaker 6: keep yourself out of the hospital make sure that you
• 57:57
  Speaker 6: avoid severe disease.
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: I think what a lot of people are struggling with,
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: I've struggled with this myself, is so there's the risk
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: of getting long COVID. There's the risk to immunocompromised people
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: and the vulnerable, especially some elderly people, even if they're
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: fully boosted. And then there's two other facts. One is
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: that we're not going to hit herd immunity at this
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: point and COVID may be here forever. And then I
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: think back to what Dr. Fauci said when Omicron first hit,
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: which is virtually everybody is going to get exposed and
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: likely infected. So I'm like, how do you square all
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: of those three facts? Because then it just sounds like
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: a lot of people are going to want to take
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: precautions forever if they want to avoid long COVID. And
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: I just, you know.
• 58:37
  Speaker 6: Well, and then that's a challenge more. That's why we
• 58:39
  Speaker 6: have to really make sure we're doing everything we can
• 58:41
  Speaker 6: to get answers to these questions on the frequency and
• 58:43
  Speaker 6: risk factors associated with long COVID so that we don't,
• 58:46
  Speaker 6: you know, people aren't in limbo forever. But it's also
• 58:49
  Speaker 6: why I look, I think these variants are getting so transmissible.
• 58:52
  Speaker 4: Right?
• 58:52
  Speaker 6: Each one is more transmissible than the next, more contagious
• 58:55
  Speaker 6: than the next. That's why, in part, you're seeing so
• 58:59
  Speaker 6: many people you know get infected, and certainly I've seen
• 59:02
  Speaker 6: that in my own circles. The good news is that,
• 59:04
  Speaker 6: the vast majority of these people, particularly if they're vaccinated,
• 59:08
  Speaker 6: are okay. The people who are, you look at the
• 59:11
  Speaker 6: folks who are hospitalized and who are losing their life
• 59:14
  Speaker 6: to COVID, and the death rate is much higher among
• 59:16
  Speaker 6: those who are unvaccinated compared to those who are vaccinated.
• 59:19
  Speaker 6: So while we don't have all the answers yet, I
• 59:22
  Speaker 6: do think that, and yes, while this is incredibly transmissible,
• 59:25
  Speaker 6: I think we should do what we can to prevent
• 59:27
  Speaker 6: the transmission, but it's a risk-benefit balance here. And for
• 59:31
  Speaker 6: a lot of people, like, you know, to give up
• 59:33
  Speaker 6: going to see family, you know, to give up going
• 59:35
  Speaker 6: to a wedding that you've held off on, you know,
• 59:37
  Speaker 6: attending for a couple of years, you know, or a
• 59:40
  Speaker 6: major anniversary celebration, these are prices that we pay as well.
• 59:45
  Speaker 6: And we have to adjust those against the risk of
• 59:46
  Speaker 6: getting a mild infection.
• 59:47
  Speaker 3: Well, those are in many ways like kind of the
• 59:51
  Speaker 3: easy examples, right? Because those are special things that people
• 59:54
  Speaker 3: would really want to take a chance for. What I've
• 59:57
  Speaker 3: struggled with is, There was a period of time where
• 59:59
  Speaker 3: there was this debate. Everyone's going to get it. And
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 3: a lot of the health experts says, no, that's bullshit.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 3: Not everybody's going to get it. You should still try
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 3: to avoid getting it. Don't listen to people say everybody's
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 3: going to get it. And then you see data come
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 3: out of places like Hong Kong that shows that places
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 3: that had done extreme mitigation measures, once they got hit
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 3: by these more transmissible variants, the rates didn't just shoot up.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 3: They caught up to what they would have been On
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 3: the lines of the countries that had done less. And
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 3: I found that really persuasive. And what I took away
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 3: from that as someone who was really careful for a
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 3: very long time is I can no longer avoid this.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: I will get this.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 3: The best I can do is be careful for a
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 3: week or two around a special event, a big show,
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 3: a big event.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: Right. But that in the end, whatever.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 3: The risk of long COVID is, it's almost beside the
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 3: point because it is inevitable that at some point I'm
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 3: going to get this infection.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: Do you agree with that?
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 6: Well, I think, look, I think in our current circumstances,
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 6: I do think the vast majority of people, you know,
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 6: at some point in the months and over the next
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 6: few years will likely get exposed and infected, you know,
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 6: to COVID. And we already have seen that the majority
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 6: of the country has, in fact, gotten COVID-19. So we
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 6: know that that's the case that will likely continue to happen.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 6: I do think this is where it becomes trickier because
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 6: it's not just black and white, you know, take precautions
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 6: or not. It's about when do I take precautions? If
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 6: you've got, again, somebody coming to visit you who might
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 6: be higher risk, or if you're going to go to
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 6: an event and you want to make sure that you
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 6: don't end up getting sick right before and having to
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 6: miss the event, then yeah, it makes sense to take
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 6: those kind of precautions. And if you yourself are at
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 6: higher risk, then I think it makes sense to take precautions.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 6: But given how contagious it is, I don't think people
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 6: should think that if I got COVID that I failed somehow,
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 6: that I screwed up, I didn't do this right. even
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 6: if you do everything right, you can reduce your chances,
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 6: but you can't eliminate 100% your chances of getting sick,
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 6: which is why, again, I think it's important for people
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 6: to be able to weigh what they're giving up with
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 6: the benefits of mitigation. And for a lot of people,
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 6: they will tolerate the risk that they may get a
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 6: mild infection if they can go about living their life,
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 6: going out to eat with friends, gathering with friends, going
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 6: to concerts. And I don't think that that's a it's
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 6: not a bad decision to make. It's just slightly different
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 6: depending on what people's risk tolerance is and based on
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 6: their personal health and the health of the people in
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 6: their home.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: And again, why it's so important to then make sure
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: we have up-to-date boosters, treatments, treatments especially for people who
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: are immunocompromised, and then look into funding and research for
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: treatments for long COVID.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 6: That's right. And the thing is, even with the two
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 6: years that we've been in this struggle, we've developed remarkably
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 6: good vaccines. And we have a therapeutic impacts of it,
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 6: which is remarkably effective at preventing hospitalizations, right? Just imagine
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 6: what we could do if we continued our pipeline of
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 6: research and investment. We may one day have mucosal vaccines, right,
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 6: which could actually help even do an even better job
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 6: of preventing transmission. We may have pan-coronavirus vaccines, which will
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 6: be even more effective against future variants. We could do
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 6: so much more. And so I do think that we
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 6: shouldn't judge COVID And, you know, based on what's happening
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 6: right now and think that what's happening now is going
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 6: to be what our life is going to be like
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 6: in perpetuity. I believe that things will get better as
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 6: our therapeutics and treatments continue to advance. We just have
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 6: to make sure we keep investing in those because to
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 6: not do so, I think, would be just tragic.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 3: Let me ask you this question. Do you have to
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 3: pay for the jacket? They fit you for it, I assume,
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 3: when you get the job. Do they charge you for
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 3: it or does it come with it?
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 6: You buy your own.
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: I thought so.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 6: Officers buy your own uniform.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you have to buy your own uniform. That's right. Dr.
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: Vivek Murthy, thank you for stopping by. It's always wonderful
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: to talk to you. Really appreciate it.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 6: Thank you so much. Good to see you both in person.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: Thanks to Senator Chris Murphy and thanks to Surgeon General
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: Vivek Murthy for joining us today. We'll see you on
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: Group Thread tomorrow, 7 a.m. Pacific, and we'll talk to
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: you on Thursday for another pod.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: Did you guys ask Dr. Murphy if he's related to
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: Ezra Klein?
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: We've made that joke a couple times before.
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 3: Well I mean this is the outro you can do
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 3: whatever you want in the outro if you listen.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: This is anything else anyone got some shots they want
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: to take.
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 3: I don't know I like love his shirt I just
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 3: want to apologize to Jamie Ruskin oh yeah I want
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 3: to apologize to Adam Schiff I have just a joke
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 3: it didn't mean anything what is your shirt it's.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: Uh we're here we're clear I have a brick.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 3: The other option for this is respect my existence or
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 3: expect a brick.
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: I like that one, too. We should do both.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: I like that one a lot.
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: Look at us. Look at us. Promoting violence in many
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: different forms. No, no, no. No, no, no. Excuse me.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: Excuse me. Just hand a brick to the person. Oh,
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: it's just you're gifting a brick.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: Gifting a brick.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's fine. I don't know what you were thinking.
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: That was what Stonewall was. Tommy's so violent.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: Got it. My bad.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: Anything else? Anything else for the outro?
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: I'm wearing a red shell.
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: Tommy's wearing a Super Mario fan here. A big gamer.
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: He's Mario Karting it up. Look at that. My wife
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: mocked my sweatshirt and said, you're not a gamer.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 9: I mean, good for Hannah.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: You know Hannah. I think it's great. Hannah gives me
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: the hard stare when she hates what I'm wearing. Look,
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: here's the thing.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 3: Even women can enforce toxic masculinity. Like saying that you
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 3: can't wear that. You can wear that.
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: This is not non-masculine.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 3: No, but I'm saying that the bounds of your, the
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 3: two of you.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: Do we think the podcast is still going?
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: I hope so.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 3: Do not press stop. Do not press stop. The two
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 3: of you, nothing makes me so sure that masculinity is
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 3: a prison. with no locks than the incredible rigidity of
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 3: the bounds around the two of you.
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: Literally in your fashion.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: Here's a new joke. No one's heard this one before. Oh,
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: John and Tommy are heteronormative in the clothes they wear.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: I'm not joking. You gay-bash my Netflix-watching You attack me.
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: I gay bash your Netflix watch channel. You enforce heteronormative
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: standards by attacking the content I enjoy.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: Because Tommy likes Emily in Paris.
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 2: Such as E & P.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: What was the other? You had a couple. You had
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: a couple.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: Fire Island.
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: Fire Island.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: Great movie. Adorable rom-com. Love it.
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: Adorable rom-com.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 9: Hey, you'd have to waterboard me to get a bad
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 9: word about Fire Island out of me. You would have
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 9: to torture me in a fucking prison to get me
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 9: to say something ill about Fire Island.
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 2: All right? How fucking dare you? Did it pass the
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 2: Bechdel test? That's been a big debate. Oh, man.
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: Someone's been on Twitter. What do you got? Is this
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: show still on?
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 2: The Surgeon General was on this episode.
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: It's like a whole extra episode.
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: Leave it on. Leave it going. All of it.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: Bye, everyone.
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 3: Bye.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: Bye.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: We'll see you Thursday with Dan.
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 2: Don't worry.
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: Don't worry.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: You'll get Dan.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: Don't worry. Dan will be here Thursday.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: It gets better, listener. Thursday popped.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production. The executive
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: producer is Michael Martinez. Our senior producer is Andy Gardner Bernstein.
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: Our producer is Haley Muse, and Olivia Martinez is our
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: associate producer. It's mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: Seglin and Charlotte Landis sound engineer the show. Thanks to
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: Tanya Sominator, Sandy Gerard, Hallie Kiefer, Ari Schwartz, Andy Taft,
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: and Justine Howe for production support. And to our digital team,
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: Elijah Cohn, Phoebe Bradford, Milo Kim, and Amelia Montufe. Our
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: episodes are uploaded as videos at youtube.com slash crookedmedia.