Latest / Wedding Pros who are ready to grow - with Becca Pountney / Why I'm no longer the cheapest - interview with Jesse from J Lawrence photography

Transcript

Why I'm no longer the cheapest - interview with Jesse from J Lawrence photography · Wedding Pros who are ready to grow - with Becca Pountney

• 0:00
  Jesse: I definitely feel like I had undersold myself
• 0:04
  throughout the business and.
• 0:08
  Actually having gone through the journey and spoken to people, I've never known
• 0:12
  someone who to put up their price that actually regretted it a year later.
• 0:17
  And it didn't matter what they started with.
• 0:19
  If they put up their price a year later, they were still getting business in.
• 0:22
  And so I think actually people, anybody listening to this, give it
• 0:26
  a go . If you haven't already got someone shouting at you to put your
• 0:30
  prices up, I'm gonna start doing it.
• 0:33
  Becca: I'm Becca Pountney, wedding business, marketing,
• 0:35
  expert, speaker, and blogger.
• 0:37
  And you are listening to the wedding pros who are ready to grow podcast.
• 0:41
  I'm here to share with you actionable tips, strategies, and real life
• 0:44
  examples to help you take your wedding business to the next level.
• 0:48
  If you are an ambitious wedding business owner that wants to take your passion
• 0:51
  and use it to build a profitable, sustainable business, doing what you
• 0:55
  love, then you're in the right place.
• 0:57
  Let's get going with today's episode.
• 1:00
  Today, I'm chatting with one of my favorite wedding pro lounge members,
• 1:03
  Jesse from Jay Lawrence photography.
• 1:05
  I know, I know I shouldn't have favorites, but let me explain from the moment I met
• 1:10
  Jesse, I knew he would be a great member.
• 1:12
  He shows up, he gets involved and most importantly, he takes
• 1:15
  big action on what he's learning, which means he sees the results.
• 1:18
  He's a lot of fun and has a really big heart.
• 1:20
  Jesse welcome to the podcast.
• 1:22
  It's great to have you.
• 1:23
  How are you?
• 1:24
  Jesse: Yeah, I'm really good.
• 1:24
  Thank you.
• 1:25
  Very pleased to be
• 1:26
  Becca: here.
• 1:27
  It's great to have you, like I said, we can't tell anyone, but you are one
• 1:30
  of my favorite members, so I'm really pleased to have you here on the show.
• 1:33
  If people don't know you, can you just explain to everyone who
• 1:36
  you are and a little bit about your business and what you do.
• 1:39
  Jesse: Yeah, sure.
• 1:39
  So I'm Jesse, J Lawrence photography.
• 1:41
  I'm a wedding photographer and I basically specialize in working with couples who
• 1:47
  absolutely hate having their photos taken.
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  And that's kind of what I've become known for in the area that I work in.
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  I also have been on a little crusade over the last, I say 18 months or so of
• 1:59
  trying to make sure that both myself and I start with myself, but, but generally
• 2:05
  speaking, trying to push with the wedding industry of being much more inclusive in
• 2:09
  the language we use, the messaging that we use and a lot of that sort of thing.
• 2:13
  Yeah,
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  Becca: and it's such an important message and we'll get
• 2:15
  onto that a little bit later.
• 2:17
  So let's go right back to the beginning to start with, because I think a lot
• 2:20
  of people, when they're considering starting a business, they just don't
• 2:23
  really understand how it happens.
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  So take me back to the moment you decided to start Jay Lawrence photography.
• 2:30
  How did it happen?
• 2:31
  Why did it happen and how did you get to where you are now?
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  Jesse: So I think the, the starting point was basically an accident.
• 2:38
  It's kind of a funny story.
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  Somebody, who was a friend of my wife at the, at the time, I didn't
• 2:42
  really know them very well, wanted somebody to help out with a charity
• 2:46
  event, just taking a few photos.
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  And I was assuming, you know, bake sale or something.
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  Cause I knew.
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  PTA stuff and that sort of thing.
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  And so I said, yeah, I'll do it.
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  I'm happy to help.
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  She then explained that it was at one of the big wedding venues in
• 3:00
  the new forest where I'm based, and it was a black tie event.
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  They had a famous news reader coming down as the patron of the
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  charity red carpet, the full works.
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  And I was like, are you sure you want me to do it?
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  You might want someone else.
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  Cause at the time I was.
• 3:14
  Many photographers, photographing flowers in the garden and all that sort of thing.
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  She said, oh no, no, that's, that's, that's fine.
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  You, you can do it.
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  You'll be fine.
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  So I was thinking I won't be, but ok.
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  So I basically had four, three or four months and literally outside of
• 3:31
  work, all I did night and day was.
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  Practice practice practice.
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  I organized photo shoots with people.
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  You know, I I've got models in to do very relaxed photo shoots, but
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  just getting used to photographing people, and getting used to using the
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  camera properly in a professional way, rather than just like I say, taking
• 3:50
  pictures of stuff in the garden.
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  After all of that, it went really well.
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  And I thought, you know what?
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  I've put all this time F in.
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  A lot of what I thought at the time was a lot of money on kit.
• 4:01
  I realise now it was small compared to what I spend these days but, what
• 4:06
  I thought was a lot of money and I thought, you know what, I'm gonna
• 4:08
  make a go of this and, and, and see, see whether I can do this properly.
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  So I started.
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  You know, doing the usual things of doing a few free weddings and trying to
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  photograph everything and everyone, in different events and then I just basically
• 4:24
  fell in love with wedding photography.
• 4:27
  Becca: I love that it started by accident.
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  I mean, so many people say to me all the time, I don't really plan
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  to start a business and I've ended up with a business at the end of it.
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  Someone just asked me to do something.
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  And I think that is so often how it works out.
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  Someone asks us to do something, we enjoy it.
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  And then we realize, oh, maybe someone will actually pay me to do this.
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  And I assume they liked the original photos from that first event.
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  Did they enjoy
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  Jesse: Yeah, they loved it.
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  Yeah.
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  And actually, so one of my best friends now is a magician and.
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  Our initial friend we got on while we were at the event, but actually
• 5:00
  he, straight away, he was like, I love what you did with the photos.
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  Like I, he struggles to get photos.
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  And I did that.
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  Did the thing that lots of photographers forget to do, I think more than
• 5:10
  anything, which is actually send all the suppliers, photos and, and he
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  was like, oh, great, thanks very much.
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  And then we.
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  You know what it's like with the wedding industry, you start seeing the same
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  faces around and we'd seen each other a few times and became friends and yeah.
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  And, I built a lot of good friends and relationships out of
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  being in the wedding industry.
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  Becca: Yeah, it's a fabulous industry to work in.
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  So lots of people get to that initial stage where they get asked
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  to do something for free, and then they realize they enjoy it.
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  They think they're gonna start a business, but it takes some confidence
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  to then take it to that next level.
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  Where did you find that self-belief from to realize actually people will pay me
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  to do this or was it a bit of a journey?
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  It
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  Jesse: was a real journey for me.
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  Like I, I think I see this a lot and now I look back, back at it.
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  I don't know if I took the right route with hindsight.
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  Essentially I was charging, you know, a couple of hundred
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  quid to do a, a full wedding.
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  There's a lot of photographers out there doing that, and, but basically, I, I was
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  charging something that I felt comfortable that if things went wrong, I was only
• 6:19
  charging a couple hundred pounds, which is kind of ironic, really, because I.
• 6:24
  now I look back at it.
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  If something had gone wrong, I don't think the couple would've
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  cared how much they paid for it.
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  Becca: That's very true.
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  Jesse: So look at, I, I've got, I've got married since starting, and actually you
• 6:38
  look back at some of the, the mindset and you think actually from a customer's
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  perspective, a lot of those things that I, um, that I had in my mind were not really
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  what the customer really cares about.
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  That's so true.
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  And I think that's a really interesting thing to consider actually, because you
• 6:54
  are right in that if someone has 200 pound budget for wedding photography,
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  or if they have 10,000 pound budget for wedding photography, that's their
• 7:01
  budget that they can stretch to.
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  And so they really value that money.
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  So yeah, even if like, exactly, like you said, even if it had all
• 7:08
  gone wrong, they wouldn't have said, well, I only paid 200 pounds.
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  Because for them in that moment, that probably was all they could afford.
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  And actually, so often our pricing and our mindset around pricing is
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  a confidence thing and a belief in our own worth rather than whether
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  or not the customer will pay it.
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  So do you believe now that you're charging more, what you are worth
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  in terms of photography, or do you think there's still room for your
• 7:30
  confidence to grow in that area?
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  I think there will always be room for confidence to grow.
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  And it's one of the things that I've realized that, and this is kind of why I
• 7:40
  said, I'm not sure about I made the right journey, but because I look back now and
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  realize that actually I'm still in five years time, I'm still gonna look back
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  at now and feel the same way as I do.
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  Now, about five years ago, I'm always gonna improve if
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  I'm doing the right things.
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  Which I think every business should be self-reflecting and improving themselves
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  and change the way they do things.
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  I think if I'm still here in five years time and thinking I'm doing things the
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  same way, and I'm doing exact and I've got everything perfect, then I've not done it.
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  Right.
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  Basically so, I think actually, Ignoring the, the self-belief and the
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  confidence, and actually just going for it a little bit more is something
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  that, that I think new people can do.
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  And I've seen a few suppliers.
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  Who've had the, I guess in some respect nerves to be a brand new supplier
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  and, but start charging sensible amount of money and, and doing.
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  Straight away.
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  And they're doing just as well as the people who start really tentatively
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  in fact they're doing better, because straight away they can afford to, to
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  upgrade all of their equipment and they can afford to get the best marketing
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  and the best websites and things.
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  And so the, the, the learning curve, is very quick.
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  The process is very quick to go from, start to, to where they want to be and
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  actually if you undersell yourself, at the beginning, it takes a lot longer.
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  And I know that I could have been here where I am today, three years ago, if
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  I'd just had the nerve to accelerate.
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  Becca: Yeah.
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  And there's so much in that, in that you are on your own journey and you're right.
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  We should always be looking back and thinking, why didn't I make
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  these changes six months ago?
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  Why didn't I do that a year ago?
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  And if we're not self reflecting, we're missing a trick.
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  And I also think you're right, because so many people come into this industry
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  and they think I've got a charge.
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  Dirt cheap prices to get books, and that's the way I'm gonna make it.
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  And you're right, because it becomes a self perpetuating problem because
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  yes, they're getting some bookings, but they're the wrong kind of bookings and
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  they're not making the money and then they don't have the money to reinvest.
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  So I just wanna say, if that's you listening to that and you feel like
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  that's, you stuck in this rut and thinking you're not worth charging more, or you've
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  always gotta charge those low prices.
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  You are on your own journey and there's absolutely no reason why
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  you can't change that journey now.
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  And exactly like Jesse's done.
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  Look back on the time that you're in now and think why didn't I do that sooner?
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  So if that is you listening right now, I encourage you reach out to
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  Jesse, reach out to me and just say, look, I actually need help moving this
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  forward and working out how to get the confidence to raise my prices.
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  So, can you help me do that now?
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  So that I'm not still in this position in a year's time now, Jesse, we've
• 10:26
  kind of touched on it a little bit, but when we first met, so when I first
• 10:30
  came across you online, I think it was fair to say you felt in a little bit
• 10:33
  of a rut with your wedding business.
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  We were kind of in the middle of COVID so that wasn't helping things, but you'd kind
• 10:39
  of got to a position where you weren't happy with how things are going, but you
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  didn't quite know how to move forward.
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  Do you think that's fair?
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  Tell me a bit about that.
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  That that's
• 10:47
  Jesse: yeah, exactly where I was, I think.
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  I kind of knew that I had a few things that were important to me.
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  Talking about the inclusivity side of things.
• 10:59
  I knew that was something that I wanted to push as part of my brand, but just
• 11:04
  because it's important to me personally.
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  Also I think the it's the same thing again with what we've just discussed.
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  It's that being able to project what you want coming in from
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  a business point of view.
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  I, realise now that I was very much undercharging, which
• 11:23
  meant that I was then getting.
• 11:25
  Budget weddings, which meant that my pictures were of budget weddings, which
• 11:29
  means that I was getting booked for budget weddings and it was self perpetuating.
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  Whilst I always, I, had this thing in my mind that I didn't really like
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  the idea of doing like stylized photo shoots, because I was worried about
• 11:44
  something that looked very false.
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  I had this, without really even researching it.
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  If I'm honest, I just had this thing in my mind that, that I would do,
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  if I did a stylized photo shoot, it would look like a magazine shoot
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  that didn't look like a real wedding.
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  I couldn't use that in my portfolio.
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  It wouldn't look like something that a wedding I'd shot and basically
• 12:06
  on the journey, working with you, looking at my branding, it was
• 12:09
  actually, I found it very weird because I, I guess it's because.
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  The the, the hardest part of that, because I I've got a marketing background,
• 12:18
  but when you're doing photography in particular, but I think this is probably
• 12:25
  true of all the wedding industry.
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  You are, you are trying to get your, if you're trying to be somewhere
• 12:31
  else rather than where you are, you know, you want that portfolio, you
• 12:36
  want to be doing those nice weddings.
• 12:38
  It's how to make that jump essentially.
• 12:42
  and actually it also, I think all of us wedding suppliers are really impatient.
• 12:47
  It's like, I want, I wanna be there now and so that making that leap to working
• 12:55
  out how I can sort my branding out, what that means, how can I be consistent?
• 13:00
  How can I make sure that I'm looking like that?
• 13:04
  My, my work is good enough to be charging the price that I
• 13:07
  really felt I should be at.
• 13:08
  And all of those sorts of things.
• 13:10
  That's essentially what I used.
• 13:12
  I had your help for, and really worked on with you to, to
• 13:18
  essentially make it happen.
• 13:21
  Becca: Yeah.
• 13:21
  And what's great about you and why introduce you in the way that I
• 13:25
  did is because you realised that you had that problem, or you were,
• 13:29
  were stuck in a rut and you knew you kind of had all the pieces.
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  And I see this a lot.
• 13:32
  Everyone has all the pieces, but they just need that help to put them together.
• 13:36
  Because when you're in your own business, it's hard to look at it from an outside
• 13:39
  perspective and it's hard to move forward.
• 13:43
  And sometimes you just need someone to show you what that next step is.
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  So we worked together, you went through my signature program,
• 13:48
  invisible to irresistible.
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  You've been part of my wedding pro members' lounge.
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  And there's certain areas that we've worked on together, which I'd love
• 13:55
  to talk a little bit more about.
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  So the first one is your message.
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  So.
• 13:59
  I love that when you came to me, you had a really clear message.
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  You wanted to talk about inclusivity.
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  You wanted to talk about diversity and you were really passionate about it.
• 14:08
  And the thing that I identified very quickly when we started working together
• 14:12
  was that there was a disconnect so that you were saying to me, one-to-one,
• 14:17
  this is what I'm passionate about.
• 14:18
  But outwardly in the marketing world, people didn't know that message and
• 14:22
  that's something you've changed.
• 14:23
  And I know that's been really successful for you.
• 14:25
  So what have you changed?
• 14:26
  What have you done differently to help that come into.
• 14:29
  Jesse: So for a start working out my branding, making sure that from
• 14:35
  whether it's sorting out consistent coloring styles, you know, I felt it
• 14:41
  was a little win in my book when I, I was doing something, I think it was
• 14:45
  even possibly with you, but a couple of times now where somebody's gone,
• 14:48
  where I've done something with someone and they've gone, oh, do you have.
• 14:52
  Colors or fonts or brand guidelines.
• 14:54
  And I've literally gone.
• 14:56
  Here's a document that it's a really brief, but it is, this is what I do.
• 14:59
  This is who I am as a business, and it makes life really easy.
• 15:04
  Actually, once you've got that in place, it's so much quicker because you're
• 15:07
  not redesigning everything every time.
• 15:10
  So that was a big step because then I knew that you.
• 15:14
  What words that I, you know, what I wanted people to get from my business
• 15:19
  when they that three to 10 seconds that they initially see my business, I
• 15:24
  know what I want them to get from that.
• 15:26
  And that was really a really big part of it for me.
• 15:30
  The second thing was getting my head over the fact.
• 15:35
  Your, the style shoots can be what you want them to be essentially, and actually
• 15:41
  it was interesting because talking to other people in your pro members lounge
• 15:45
  and, and really getting that feel for people from people who are doing
• 15:49
  styled shoots that actually, you know, You're using, you can use real couples.
• 15:54
  And I never really even considered that.
• 15:56
  I just assumed that we'd get some models, random models in, and they would have
• 15:59
  to pretend, but actually it makes such a big difference getting real couples in.
• 16:04
  So, so now my, those that styled shoot that I would do would look like a
• 16:09
  real wedding, because they're really comfortable around each other, and
• 16:13
  then doing the styled shoots meant I had real looking real wedding looking
• 16:18
  images for, you know, LGBT couples, mixed race couples, those sorts of things.
• 16:25
  So I had images to stick on the website and I could put pages together
• 16:29
  about those things specifically.
• 16:32
  You know, as, as a person who has a lot of L G B T friends, and as an ally,
• 16:38
  it was important to me to make sure that I had a, a page on my website
• 16:42
  that literally just talked about that.
• 16:44
  And, and.
• 16:46
  You know, a year and a half ago, I wouldn't have had any
• 16:48
  images to put on that page.
• 16:50
  and it's exactly what you were saying.
• 16:52
  You know, I, would've put, had a load of, you know, straight
• 16:57
  white couples on my website and, and that was it, which is fine.
• 17:00
  And I still have plenty of straight white couples on there,
• 17:03
  but the idea is inclusivity.
• 17:05
  So I've got everything, everyone on there.
• 17:07
  Lots of different styles of weddings, people with different
• 17:09
  body shapes, everything on there.
• 17:11
  It almost makes me laugh, looking back that I hadn't had that outside
• 17:14
  view of just looking at my website and going well, you've got none of this
• 17:17
  Becca: yeah, I remember that very vividly because we did
• 17:22
  a bit of an audit didn't we?
• 17:23
  And I said, you're saying to me everywhere, you want diversity and your
• 17:26
  LGBTQ plus friendly and all these things.
• 17:28
  But when I come to your website, all I see is a.
• 17:31
  White couple, a heterosexual couple, which is what I see on every other website.
• 17:35
  And that opens up a whole other conversation because I hear
• 17:38
  people say to me all the time.
• 17:40
  Yeah.
• 17:40
  But I wanna do these weddings, but I haven't done these weddings yet.
• 17:42
  And you're right, because you have to get over that thought of,
• 17:45
  I don't wanna do a styled shoot.
• 17:46
  I don't wanna force the matter because ultimately it's marketing.
• 17:49
  And at the end of the day, people can't buy what they can't see and they
• 17:52
  can't believe what they can't see.
• 17:54
  So it's hard for them to believe.
• 17:56
  Yeah.
• 17:56
  Jesse's really inclusive.
• 17:57
  When they can't see any evidence of that.
• 17:59
  And as soon as you start showing evidence of that, and that's the
• 18:03
  same with all sorts of things, if you wanna shoot more weddings in barns,
• 18:06
  well, you gotta go out there and get more images of weddings in barns.
• 18:08
  If you wanna shoot in high end hotels in London, you need to show that you can be
• 18:12
  in those hotels even before your books.
• 18:14
  And what happens is then people see that and think, oh, they're the person
• 18:17
  to book for this kind of wedding.
• 18:19
  And then you have to get over that feeling of, I don't wanna do this, this
• 18:24
  isn't me and realize actually sometimes.
• 18:27
  Maybe we've just got to push ourselves a little bit to get those images.
• 18:30
  And I think you've done a huge, benefit to your business by pushing past that block.
• 18:35
  And that's hard to do so you should be proud of that.
• 18:38
  So you talked a little bit about your message and how important that message is.
• 18:41
  Why do you think it is so important for you to talk about people that
• 18:45
  don't like having their photo taken or to talk about the diversity thing?
• 18:49
  Jesse: I'm really glad you asked that because.
• 18:52
  One of the big things that I think people that I've really noticed since I've
• 18:57
  basically sorted all my branding out and everything on is that for, for couples
• 19:04
  that have never heard of me before.
• 19:05
  So obviously I get referrals from people, but for couples that come
• 19:08
  to me via my brand, my marketing.
• 19:11
  It is really common now.
• 19:15
  Like I would say the majority of couples that come to me, they say, I
• 19:18
  really like what you said about this.
• 19:20
  I really like that you do this.
• 19:22
  And so not, you know, it's not for everyone.
• 19:26
  So like not everybody has to do the same thing as me.
• 19:31
  But knowing who you are and knowing what you stand for and what you,
• 19:36
  what you project and how you work with your customers and your style.
• 19:40
  You know, there's some, I know a photographer who, who only
• 19:43
  works with like model looking couples for one of a better word.
• 19:48
  And they, and they have very, they have a very high end look very, very, they, they
• 19:56
  were predominantly a model photographer doing fashion and things like that.
• 19:59
  And so, so that was the style that they wanted to go with.
• 20:03
  And that works for them, but they were really clear about that.
• 20:07
  And so I think.
• 20:08
  Couples need you get really good customers for whatever your business is.
• 20:13
  If they know that they're the right customer for you and you know that
• 20:16
  they're the right customer for you.
• 20:18
  And once you start projecting what you want from them and what you have to offer
• 20:22
  for them, they'll come, they'll come to you without really any questions.
• 20:32
  It's not then a how do I decide
• 20:32
  Jesse: between all these people, they go, right?
• 20:32
  I'm interested in.
• 20:33
  Becca: That's so right.
• 20:34
  And it comes from a place of authenticity as well.
• 20:37
  So you have to know who you are, what you believe in, what your values are,
• 20:42
  who you want to attract as a person.
• 20:43
  And why?
• 20:44
  Because if you try and do it from a marketing perspective and you see
• 20:47
  this, especially in the LGBTQ plus space where some people think I'm
• 20:52
  gonna jump on the bandwagon and I'm, I'm gonna promote this, but they've
• 20:55
  got no heart or value behind it, then.
• 20:57
  It stands out a mile off as a marketing ploy, but actually when
• 21:01
  it's authentically, what you're about.
• 21:03
  And I see this through you, especially with your piece on people who
• 21:07
  are uncomfortable in front of the camera, it's an authentic message.
• 21:12
  And you see that coming through in your testimonials because when
• 21:14
  people leave testimonials on your website, they say things like I was
• 21:17
  so uncomfortable in front of the.
• 21:19
  But Jessie made me feel so comfortable.
• 21:21
  So it's really important isn't it to come from that place of authenticity?
• 21:25
  Jesse: Yeah.
• 21:25
  And like, I, it's funny, sometimes I look at the testimonials and I think
• 21:30
  I could have written that for them.
• 21:31
  It's so good.
• 21:32
  But the reason is because they kind of know what to say
• 21:35
  because they've already seen.
• 21:38
  That kind of messaging.
• 21:39
  So they, that's why they came to me.
• 21:41
  And so therefore they appreciated that bit and that's then they write
• 21:44
  a testimonial that backs it up.
• 21:46
  But also, like you said, about jumping on the bandwagon, I think
• 21:50
  there's, if it's important to you, you'll spend the time to research it.
• 21:55
  Like I say, I, the L G B T Q plus side of my business was important
• 22:02
  to me because I've got so many close friends, like really close friends to
• 22:05
  me that are part of that community.
• 22:10
  And once I made that decision and started projecting that my branding, it
• 22:16
  gave me it actually, you know, I didn't assume that I knew everything about it.
• 22:22
  It meant that I actually went and asked the questions and made sure I
• 22:26
  got feedback from the right audience, all of these sorts of things.
• 22:29
  You can, you can then get, become really good at these things.
• 22:33
  It, it doesn't, you don't have to be the expert straight away.
• 22:36
  It just needs to be really important to you and then you can work at it.
• 22:39
  Yeah,
• 22:39
  Becca: absolutely.
• 22:41
  So you've been going for a while now, and we've talked about a few different
• 22:46
  things that have been going on for you in your business and changes you've
• 22:49
  made as you look back over the last few years, what mistakes do you think
• 22:53
  you've made that people could learn?
• 22:57
  Jesse: So I would say probably the, one of the things that I've
• 23:00
  always struggled with is patience.
• 23:02
  Cause I've known where I've, I've always, I wanna be there.
• 23:05
  And actually, you know, when I did your course, I actually had a really strong
• 23:10
  sense of frustration because then I knew what I wanted, but actually I got there.
• 23:15
  It took a few months, which feels like forever.
• 23:18
  And actually in the business world a few months, isn't that long, especially
• 23:22
  if you are gonna be a business that's running for decades and prospering,
• 23:27
  actually a few months in the scheme of things, not the end of the world.
• 23:30
  So I had to learn patience, on that side of things, I definitely
• 23:35
  feel like I had undersold myself throughout the business and.
• 23:43
  Actually having gone through the journey and spoken to people, I've never known
• 23:46
  someone who to put up their price that actually regretted it a year later.
• 23:52
  And it didn't matter what they started with.
• 23:53
  If they put up their price a year later, they were still getting business in.
• 23:56
  And so I think actually people, anybody listening to this, give it a go
• 24:02
  If you haven't already got someone shouting at you to pick your
• 24:05
  prices up, I'm gonna start doing it, and actually I know a lot of
• 24:11
  people it's not really about, it's about two things with the price.
• 24:15
  It's partly, it's making sure that you show people that you
• 24:18
  have the quality because there are couples out there including myself.
• 24:22
  When I went to book, it was funny.
• 24:24
  I was charging a couple hundred quid for a wedding, but when I went, went
• 24:26
  to book a wedding photographer, I was not looking at that because.
• 24:31
  I was, you know, I was like, I don't want somebody who's new starting out.
• 24:35
  And I'd been doing it for several years by this point.
• 24:37
  And I was only charging a few hundred quid and I was thinking, actually, why an earth
• 24:40
  what am I charging a few hundred quid?
• 24:42
  Because I know that I'm not gonna be looking at that.
• 24:45
  I'm just not even starting at that point.
• 24:48
  So yeah, and, but also businesses cost a lot of money.
• 24:54
  And the more you go on, the more you realize that if you're doing
• 24:57
  things professionally and you've got branding and you've got social
• 25:00
  media and you've got accountants and insurance and all these things and
• 25:05
  websites to pay for it all adds up.
• 25:07
  And actually, if you don't put your prices up to a professional level now,
• 25:11
  but you are trying to do everything else professionally, you're not
• 25:14
  gonna make any money to live off.
• 25:16
  And then you don't have the work life balance, because
• 25:17
  you're just working really hard.
• 25:20
  for not actually really getting any reward out of it.
• 25:27
  Becca: I think that's a really interesting insight where you talk about how, when you
• 25:31
  were planning your own wedding, you just discounted the people who were basically
• 25:34
  charging what you were charging, because you didn't think they'd be good enough.
• 25:37
  And that's a lesson for all of us, isn't it?
• 25:39
  Because so often we have this mindset, especially when we come into the industry.
• 25:44
  If I'm the cheapest, everyone will book me.
• 25:45
  If I'm the bottom of the rung on the ladder, everyone will book me and yet.
• 25:50
  So often not true because there's lots of people out there that only
• 25:53
  book the most expensive thing, because they wanna prove that they've
• 25:56
  got more men than everyone else.
• 25:57
  And there's other people exactly.
• 25:59
  Like you were saying, I don't wanna book the cheapest because I think if
• 26:03
  they're charging more, it shows that they know what they're doing now.
• 26:06
  We all know that's not necessarily true, but there's definitely
• 26:09
  that perception out there.
• 26:11
  So you've gotta have the confidence to charge what you're worth.
• 26:14
  And that's why it's so important to talk about the numbers.
• 26:17
  Now, another thing I know we've worked on together as part of the course and in
• 26:20
  the membership, I talk about it all the time is actually knowing your numbers
• 26:24
  and planning ahead and thinking about how much this business has cost you.
• 26:28
  What impacts that has on you?
• 26:29
  Jesse: It's' really good for as a driving force, to know where you are
• 26:32
  focusing on, for a starting point..
• 26:35
  So, if you are, if you don't know how healthy your business is and what bits
• 26:40
  are weak, at what point, then you are just, you'll, you'll just end up doing
• 26:45
  the things that you're comfortable with.
• 26:47
  And, and that doesn't necessarily mean that's the best thing for your business.
• 26:51
  It actually, I found it really helpful because there might be something that
• 26:55
  I wouldn't necessarily go to as my, you know, to spend my time on go and
• 26:59
  do the X, Y or Z, but actually as part of my business it was really important.
• 27:04
  And if, you know, if you've got a good understanding of how your
• 27:07
  business is operating and doing like the numbers with you has been really
• 27:11
  helpful from that point of view, it means that I could know, oh, okay.
• 27:14
  I need to go and do.
• 27:17
  I need to go and do this this week.
• 27:18
  I need to make sure that I spend some time on this, but I think
• 27:21
  there's a more profound effect on.
• 27:25
  You as a business owner of knowing your numbers as being, making sure
• 27:29
  you've got records of where you are at, because we all see our businesses
• 27:33
  on an hour by hour, day by day basis.
• 27:36
  We do not see the changes as clearly as, other people and even.
• 27:41
  In the last six months of looking at my social media, I've realized that
• 27:46
  while I don't think I've grown things.
• 27:47
  And even when I have a quiet month, like in last month, I was absolutely manic
• 27:51
  and I didn't do very much social media.
• 27:53
  It still grew, and I didn't realize that it was growing and how much it's grown
• 27:58
  in the last six months has been huge.
• 28:00
  And actually you look back at that and from a positive point of view.
• 28:04
  Believing in yourself and all of these things is really important.
• 28:06
  Becca: That's so important to track what you're doing.
• 28:07
  So you can look back and congratulate yourself really, because like you
• 28:10
  said, we live it day by day and we're always looking forward as business.
• 28:14
  What we gonna do next?
• 28:15
  What are we going to do next?
• 28:16
  And sometimes we forget to look back now that brings me on to my next question,
• 28:19
  actually, because we talked about business being a journey, and we've talked a
• 28:22
  lot about how you've got to this point.
• 28:24
  I'd love to know where you're looking to get to next, what's your next plan, what
• 28:27
  do you want to see over the next year?.
• 28:27
  Jesse: I still work full time at the moment and I do a lot of different things.
• 28:33
  One of the things that I've really wanted to do is focus much
• 28:36
  more on the wedding photography.
• 28:37
  So I'm very much looking at how I can do more wedding photography over
• 28:42
  the time, and, and see how I can.
• 28:45
  I can do that, but also I'm going, I very much I've really actually fall
• 28:50
  in love with those styled shoots.
• 28:51
  So I'm gonna be pushing to do a lot more of those.
• 28:54
  I really enjoyed them.
• 28:55
  And yeah, just seeing how I think we get tied up very much in, in the
• 29:01
  business from a, a business point of view and growing the business.
• 29:04
  But I, I kind of wanna see what I can do that's like making, adding the
• 29:09
  passion project side of the business in, you know, like doing, doing the
• 29:13
  rebranding and making sure that I cover the LGBTQ plus, element of my branding
• 29:19
  has been great, but actually I know there's more I can be doing there.
• 29:21
  So, that's not just in my business for outside and, and in the, in
• 29:26
  the world of the wedding world as a wider, as a wider thing,
• 29:31
  Becca: This is the coaching part of me talking now, Jesse, but have you made
• 29:34
  a plan about how this is gonna happen?
• 29:35
  Have you made a plan?
• 29:36
  Are you going to drop hours in your day job to do more wedding photography?
• 29:38
  Jesse: I have, I do!
• 29:39
  Because I always have your head.
• 29:40
  shouting at me, right.
• 29:42
  I need to do a plan.
• 29:43
  Otherwise Becca will Becca will be on me.
• 29:50
  Becca: Absolutely because it's easy to sit there at home and be like, right
• 29:53
  in a year's time, I wanna quit my job.
• 29:55
  And people say that to me all the time in a year's time, I wanna
• 29:57
  quit my job in a year's time.
• 29:58
  I wanna go part-time wedding, business, part-time business.
• 30:01
  And I say to them well, how are you going to do that?
• 30:03
  I don't know.
• 30:04
  And actually, if you want something to happen, it's absolutely
• 30:07
  possible, but you've gotta get your head into the business and
• 30:10
  look at how it's gonna happen.
• 30:11
  If you wanna drop so many hours in your job, well, how much money do
• 30:14
  you need to make to make up for that?
• 30:15
  Or how much can you afford to do?
• 30:17
  Or is there savings you can make in your household in able to able you to do that?
• 30:21
  Otherwise in a years, time, you'll still be sat here saying in a
• 30:24
  year's time, I wanna quit my job.
• 30:25
  If you don't make a plan.
• 30:26
  So it's music to my ears, Jesse that you have a plan.
• 30:29
  Of course you do.
• 30:30
  That's why you are one of my favorite members.
• 30:31
  Love it.
• 30:32
  Okay.
• 30:33
  Jesse.
• 30:33
  It's very exciting.
• 30:34
  Okay.
• 30:34
  Because I'm gonna introduce a new feature to the podcast this week.
• 30:38
  It's called now it's a working title.
• 30:40
  I feel like we might need to improve it, but right now it's called wedding
• 30:43
  pros it's time to take a break.
• 30:45
  Now, one thing that I've discovered.
• 30:47
  And it seems to be coming up more, and more recently is that wedding
• 30:51
  professionals and business owners in general are terrible at taking a break.
• 30:55
  We work way too hard.
• 30:56
  We stress out all the time.
• 30:58
  And so I wanna have a little segment on my podcast to encourage people that
• 31:01
  sometimes they need to take a break.
• 31:03
  So I've got two questions to ask you.
• 31:05
  The first one is I'd love to know.
• 31:07
  What do you do to chill out?
• 31:08
  If you could get away from your business for a few hours, what would you be doing?
• 31:11
  Jesse: I do quite a few things.
• 31:13
  I've got a dog, so taking the dog out for a walk is nice and I'd love to go out
• 31:17
  on my canoe and, and just if I wanna get away from everyone and just be with my
• 31:21
  thoughts, I go out on my canoe, and just, just chill out on the water for a bit.
• 31:26
  But yeah, and that, that is my main go to, but on a day to day, obviously
• 31:30
  that's quite a bit of effort.
• 31:31
  So on a day to day, I'm a bit of a gamer and so I'll, I'll either
• 31:36
  be playing games or watching streamers and, and things like that.
• 31:41
  So a bit of a geek at heart
• 31:47
  Becca: Jesse, how did I never know that you have a canoe that needs to
• 31:50
  appear on your social media more often?
• 31:53
  Because that sounds idyllic.
• 31:54
  I'm just imagining you out on your canoe.
• 31:56
  There's definitely a styled shoot in there somewhere too.
• 32:00
  Okay.
• 32:00
  And my second question is because we all like to chill out in front
• 32:04
  of the TV sometimes and if you're anything like me, you don't have
• 32:06
  time to search through what to watch.
• 32:08
  So I'd love to know if there's any TV series or films that you've
• 32:11
  been watching recently that you recommend to people listening?
• 32:12
  Jesse: Do you know what from a chill out point of view the thing that
• 32:14
  I have been watching for probably about two months now is old Friends.
• 32:19
  I've literally, I've gone to Netflix and I've started from the beginning.
• 32:23
  I can't believe how out of focus some of the camera shots are I, and I
• 32:29
  can't believe how terrible some of the building of the characters is, is at
• 32:34
  the, in the early days, but I've gone through I'm nearly at the end now.
• 32:37
  So I'm going to be actually listening, listening out to what other people say
• 32:40
  on, on this section for, for my next thing, because I'm nearly at the end of.
• 32:45
  Of the entire Friends series, but that's what I've been doing is on Netflix
• 32:49
  and listening, watching some Friends
• 32:51
  Becca: I love Friends.
• 32:52
  Isn't it just the amazing that it's a show, where you can watch it.
• 32:55
  You can literally dip into any episode at any time at any point in any series
• 33:00
  and it makes you laugh, even if you have seen it 5 million times before.
• 33:01
  Jesse: And it's one of those things that I don't mind if somebody like, you know,
• 33:06
  like watching, watching stuff together in a household, I always struggle cause
• 33:10
  my wife's in the ambulance service.
• 33:12
  So we'll end one of us will end up getting impatient and what, going
• 33:16
  ahead and watching things in series.
• 33:18
  So we always start a series together and finish it in our own time.
• 33:22
  Whereas with Friends, we can, it doesn't matter if someone jumps ahead a few
• 33:26
  episodes, I kind of know what's going on.
• 33:32
  . Becca: That's very dangerous to your relationship, Jesse.
• 33:34
  I feel like if I jump ahead with my husband in a series,
• 33:37
  he is not happy about it.
• 33:38
  I would have to watch it a second time with him so he didn't know
• 33:39
  I had watched it in secret!
• 33:39
  Jesse: We used to do that, but we've got to the stage where
• 33:40
  like, we will communicate with each other and go, I'm gonna carry
• 33:43
  on watching this now on my own.
• 33:44
  And we go, okay, no problem.
• 33:48
  Becca: I love that.
• 33:50
  Now, if you're listening to this, of course, I want you
• 33:53
  to be accountable to me.
• 33:54
  You've probably got my voice in your ear already saying,
• 33:57
  when are you taking a break?
• 33:58
  So if you watch Friends, if you do any of the things that Jesse suggested,
• 34:02
  go out for a dog, walk, even go on a canoe, then take a picture, add it your
• 34:05
  stories, and tag me in it so that I can see that you are taking some time for
• 34:09
  yourself and it's not all about work.
• 34:11
  Okay, Jesse, before we finish, we have to do the quick fire quiz.
• 34:15
  Now my last fewguests have not really understood the idea of a
• 34:18
  quick fire quiz in that they're really slow to answer the questions.
• 34:21
  So I give you the question you give me the answer as quick as you can.
• 34:25
  Jesse: Absolutely, I'm all up for being as quick as possible, please don't cancel me!
• 34:27
  . Becca: Okay.
• 34:28
  Are you ready then?
• 34:29
  Would you rather get married in a barn or a Manor house?
• 34:33
  DJ, or live music?
• 34:34
  Jesse: Live music,
• 34:36
  Becca: summer wedding, or a winter wedding?
• 34:38
  Chocolate cake or lemon cake?
• 34:41
  Jesse: Lemon cake.
• 34:42
  Becca: Would you rather watch true crime or some comedy light relief?
• 34:46
  Jesse: comedy.
• 34:46
  Becca: Would you rather advertise on a wedding directory or at a wedding fair?
• 34:50
  Instagram or Facebook?
• 34:51
  Jesse: Instagram
• 34:53
  Becca: Are you an early riser or a night owl?
• 34:56
  Jesse: night owl.
• 34:57
  Becca: And do you work too much or you easily distracted?
• 35:03
  At least you are honest and you were fairly quick.
• 35:08
  I'll give you that, although I feel like in my Instagram versus
• 35:11
  Facebook question right now,
• 35:21
  Jesse: Do you know what I had some trouble answering that because, I've heard so
• 35:25
  much over the last year about different guru's saying, oh, Facebook's dead.
• 35:30
  And, and what have you, but actually I've found over the last six months,
• 35:34
  my Facebook has grown massively.
• 35:36
  There's an awful lot of family members, you know, because I think there's an
• 35:41
  older generation now that are using it.
• 35:43
  And they actually really like getting involved with the pictures and
• 35:46
  things I've got, I've got a really good following on Facebook now.
• 35:50
  And I, I would say if you've got the time, don't ignore it.
• 35:53
  Becca: Yes, you've heard it here first.
• 35:55
  Facebook is going to make a comeback, I believe it's true and you're right.
• 35:58
  There is a massive demographic on there.
• 36:00
  And if we're honest, everyone is still on Facebook.
• 36:03
  Even if they're not active on Facebook, I guarantee you, most people you bump
• 36:07
  into in the street have still got an account and they're still scrolling.
• 36:11
  So don't give up on Facebook.
• 36:13
  Okay.
• 36:13
  As we bring the interview to a conclusion, Jesse, I ask the same question, which is,
• 36:17
  is there one thing that you wish you'd known sooner in your wedding business?
• 36:22
  Jesse: Yeah, I guess I probably wish that I had known that it's okay to be
• 36:26
  whatever I want to be as a business, rather than trying to be whatever is the
• 36:32
  generic view of what a business should be.
• 36:35
  Just go your own way with it.
• 36:37
  And it's okay.
• 36:38
  Find your niche.
• 36:39
  Becca: Yes.
• 36:40
  Find your niche and go for it.
• 36:42
  Jesse, it's been such a pleasure to have you on the podcast if people want
• 36:45
  to find out more about you, where's the best place for them to do that?
• 36:45
  Jesse: Probably Instagram is the easiest one.
• 36:47
  So, Jay Lawrence underscore photo, all my website has all my links on it.
• 36:53
  Becca: Amazing.
• 36:53
  I'll post all of your links below in the show notes and Jesse is very approachable.
• 36:57
  So if you've got questions for him, if you want to talk to him more about his
• 37:00
  journey or find out why he loves working with me so much, I'm sure you can drop
• 37:04
  him a message and maybe you too could be one of my favorite members in the future.
• 37:08
  Jesse, thanks for your time.
• 37:09
  I'll speak to you soon.