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Independent Pharmacy: Power, Policy & Patient Care | TWIRx · Pharmacy Podcast Network

0:03
Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to This Week in Pharmacy.
0:09
Speaker 2: Welcome to This Week in Pharmacy. Twerks is the weekly
0:14
Speaker 2: pulse of the pharmacy profession. And now, here's Pittsburgh native
0:18
Speaker 2: Bleeding Black and Gold, pharmacy's first podcaster and founder of
0:22
Speaker 2: the Pharmacy Podcast Network, the RxPodfather.
0:25
Speaker 3: Our host, Todd Urie.
0:27
Speaker 4: Hey there.
0:28
Speaker 5: Hey.
0:33
Speaker 3: Welcome to This Week in Pharmacy. We have a packed
0:37
Speaker 3: show today. I'm going to jump right in to Twerks News.
0:46
Speaker 1: And now, here's the latest in pharmacy.
0:49
Speaker 6: Coming up on Twerks News.
0:54
Speaker 3: Hey, first up, FDA and compounded peptides. This is behind-the-counter intelligence.
1:00
Speaker 1: The FDA....
1:02
Speaker 3: They have this, they've submitted this thing called the interim
1:07
Speaker 3: access policy for compounding using certain peptides to the White
1:11
Speaker 3: House for regulatory review. And there's an important distinction, a policy,
1:18
Speaker 3: this policy is still under review.
1:20
Speaker 1: Nothing's been actually finalized.
1:22
Speaker 3: The report suggests that the FDA may consider temporary enforcement discretion,
1:29
Speaker 3: allowing licensed compounders to prepare certain peptides.
1:33
Speaker 7: And that's why we're labeling this one developing, not done. Todd,
1:38
Speaker 7: could a legitimate compounding pathway actually protect patients who are
1:41
Speaker 7: already buying questionable peptide products online?
1:46
Speaker 3: Well, the protection comes down to the pharmacist being in
1:48
Speaker 3: charge of compounding in the first place. Shout out to
1:52
Speaker 3: the APC, the Alliance for Pharmacy Compounders. They do amazing
1:56
Speaker 3: work assuring the public safety by policies that are put
2:00
Speaker 3: into place. So Let's keep an eye on this, but
2:03
Speaker 3: still developing. Hey, next up, here's some significant clinical news.
2:08
Speaker 3: The FDA has approved GSK's Hibsago, an antisense treatment for
2:17
Speaker 3: certain adults with chronic hepatitis B, as in boy. In
2:23
Speaker 3: recent third stage studies, About 19% of the eligible treatment
2:30
Speaker 3: patients achieved functional cure, meaning sustained viral control and loss
2:37
Speaker 3: of hepatitis B surface antigens after stopping the therapy.
2:42
Speaker 7: This isn't a universal cure, and patient selection and monitoring
2:46
Speaker 7: will be important. But Todd, when we're talking about some
2:49
Speaker 7: patients potentially achieving lasting control without indefinite treatment, that deserves attention.
2:56
Speaker 1: It does, and I'm excited to hear more. So I'd
2:59
Speaker 1: like to reach out.
3:00
Speaker 3: If you are a specialty pharmacist working in hepatitis B specifically,
3:07
Speaker 3: reach out to us. We'd like to dig deeper into this. Hey,
3:11
Speaker 3: let's follow the money on this one. Celeron Rx in
3:15
Speaker 3: specialty pharmacy. Elevance Health's Celeron, or Carolon, I should say,
3:23
Speaker 3: Business just reported $ 19. 3 billion in quarterly operating revenue and
3:29
Speaker 3: $ 900 million in operating gain, with the company pointing in
3:33
Speaker 3: part to Carillon RX product growth and improved specialty pharmacy profitability.
3:40
Speaker 1: That's big news.
3:41
Speaker 7: And that's the intelligence here. PBMs, insurers, specialty pharmacies, and
3:46
Speaker 7: healthcare service companies continue moving closer together. Todd, when one
3:51
Speaker 7: organization touches the insurance benefit, the pharmacy benefit, and specialty dispensing,
3:56
Speaker 7: is that better coordination or too much control under one roof?
4:01
Speaker 3: It's not so much each of those individual parts. It's
4:06
Speaker 3: about choice and it's about flexibility and it's about access.
4:10
Speaker 3: So if all of those parts, if our pharmacy benefit,
4:14
Speaker 3: the specialty dispensing, the care coordination part, is all coming
4:18
Speaker 3: from one entity, and they don't allow another pharmacy to
4:23
Speaker 3: be involved. They don't allow some of our independently owned
4:26
Speaker 3: ones to be involved. That's where the problems arise. It's
4:30
Speaker 3: not so much having everything in one place. Hub services
4:34
Speaker 3: really help to manage things.
4:36
Speaker 1: It's just who it is, a.k.a.
4:39
Speaker 3: Like Aetna and CVS pharmacies really put a pinch on care.
4:46
Speaker 1: Hey, next up, rare disease. Bidopertin. Is that how you
4:51
Speaker 1: say it? B-I-T-O-P-E-R-T-I-N. Bidopertin?
5:00
Speaker 3: This next story reminds me what clinical trials numbers can
5:04
Speaker 3: actually mean to a patient's life. Disc Medicine reported positive
5:09
Speaker 3: phase three results of Bidopertin in patients Ingestinal treatment for
5:17
Speaker 3: rare disorders that can take exposure to sunlight, make extreme
5:24
Speaker 3: painful if you're in the sunlight, and that sounds horrible.
5:28
Speaker 3: Patients receiving the drug experience significantly more pain-free time in
5:34
Speaker 3: sunlight compared with placebo.
5:39
Speaker 1: Sounds like good news to me.
5:40
Speaker 7: The drug isn't FDA approved yet, but this is why
5:42
Speaker 7: patient-centered outcomes matter. Sometimes success isn't just a better lab value.
5:48
Speaker 7: It's giving somebody part of their normal life back.
5:52
Speaker 1: All right. Behind the counter, Reddit workforce chatter.
5:57
Speaker 3: I have always had a problem with Reddit's negativity, but
6:00
Speaker 3: every once in a while we have positive stories. And
6:05
Speaker 3: they heavily discussed Reddit thread this week, had pharmacy technicians
6:08
Speaker 3: describing prescription backlogs, nonstop phones, frustrated patients, and inadequate staffing.
6:16
Speaker 3: There are anonymous accounts that we cannot independently verify, that
6:21
Speaker 3: their individual workplace claims is disastrous. This is not good
6:27
Speaker 3: for patient care, and it's just showing a continuing issue
6:34
Speaker 3: around fast food pharmacy claims. in the mega chain environments,
6:40
Speaker 3: but very frustrated for our pharmacists and technicians of how
6:46
Speaker 3: workplace disasters are cultivating based on all the work that
6:52
Speaker 3: is expected, putting different quantity needs on and regulations internally
7:00
Speaker 3: into like vaccines and It's just hard, man, to be
7:03
Speaker 3: on the front lines.
7:04
Speaker 7: But frontline chatter can still tell us where to start
7:07
Speaker 7: asking questions. Todd, if pharmacies really are struggling with prescription backlogs,
7:12
Speaker 7: are we experiencing a workforce shortage or a shortage of
7:16
Speaker 7: business models capable of properly staffing a pharmacy?
7:21
Speaker 3: I think it's the system grinding away the joy of
7:26
Speaker 3: being in the pharmacy business solely for profit. and not
7:31
Speaker 3: paying attention to the human working behind the bench, behind
7:36
Speaker 3: the counters, not being engaged enough with the public.
7:40
Speaker 1: And the public's hard.
7:42
Speaker 3: The public is terribly unmannered and some of the most
7:48
Speaker 3: disgusting people out there sometimes, the way that they treat
7:52
Speaker 3: technicians and pharmacists. However, I'm a glass half full guy.
7:56
Speaker 3: So I think that We'll see improvements to this. I
7:59
Speaker 3: think that we have to educate the public of what
8:02
Speaker 3: pharmacy is expected to do, what they are doing, what
8:05
Speaker 3: the stresses are. It's hard, man. It really is hard.
8:12
Speaker 3: I shout out to our retail pharmacists and pharmacy technicians.
8:19
Speaker 1: You guys are absolute champions.
8:35
Speaker 3: Up on Twerks today, special interview with Mark Kinney from IPC.
8:49
Speaker 8: And I'd like to congratulate John Colbello, who has been
8:52
Speaker 8: promoted to Vice President of Government Relations. John is a
8:55
Speaker 8: familiar face throughout the pharmacy community, bringing more than 40
8:59
Speaker 8: years of state and federal policy experience including two decades
9:03
Speaker 8: focused on independent pharmacy advocacy. I have worked now with
9:07
Speaker 8: John for more than two decades. He's a professional. He's
9:11
Speaker 8: very good at what he does. And I'm really excited
9:15
Speaker 8: for his promotion and what he means to IPC.
9:19
Speaker 3: Coming up next on This Week in Pharmacy, a special
9:22
Speaker 3: update from IPC.
9:24
Speaker 1: We'll be right back.
9:28
Speaker 3: Thank you.
9:34
Speaker 9: This episode is sponsored by Independent Pharmacy Cooperative, widely known
9:38
Speaker 9: as IPC. Established in 1983, IPC is the nation's largest
9:43
Speaker 9: group purchasing organization owned by independent pharmacy. With a mission
9:47
Speaker 9: of maximizing the success of community pharmacists, IPC works to
9:51
Speaker 9: provide members with access to effective programs and services designed
9:55
Speaker 9: to enhance profitability for independent pharmacy. Read more about our
9:59
Speaker 9: mission by checking out our website at IPCRX.com. That's IPCRX.com.
10:17
Speaker 3: Hey, and on this week in pharmacy, big news coming
10:19
Speaker 3: out of Independent Pharmacy Cooperative with headlines. If you haven't
10:23
Speaker 3: seen the press release, it says IPC expands advocacy efforts,
10:29
Speaker 3: and this is Independent Pharmacy Cooperative strengthening national government relations,
10:35
Speaker 3: their government relations team with experienced policy leaders to advance
10:39
Speaker 3: PBM reform, fair reimbursement, rural health access, and the future
10:45
Speaker 3: of independent community pharmacy. I'd like to welcome back my
10:48
Speaker 3: friend and government relations lead, Mark Kinney, to the show.
10:53
Speaker 1: Welcome, Mark.
10:54
Speaker 10: Todd, it's always great to be on the program.
10:58
Speaker 1: Well, we're excited to have you here.
10:59
Speaker 3: Big news, like I said, coming out of Sun Prairie, Wisconsin,
11:03
Speaker 3: with the added members to the government affairs team, the
11:09
Speaker 3: investment that IPC is making to policy into making to
11:14
Speaker 3: government relations state to state and national is huge. And
11:18
Speaker 3: Mark Asenza actually said, independent pharmacy advocacy has never been
11:23
Speaker 3: more important. And I just want to echo that. So
11:27
Speaker 3: tell us about the expansion of your team.
11:30
Speaker 10: Yeah, Todd, you're absolutely right.
11:31
Speaker 8: IPC is expanding its government relations team, bringing even more talent, experience,
11:37
Speaker 8: and energy to the fight for independent pharmacy. And I
11:40
Speaker 8: think the timing couldn't be better. As you know, community
11:49
Speaker 8: pharmacy continues to navigate challenges around PBMs, reimbursements, patient access,
11:56
Speaker 8: healthcare policies, and IPC is doubling down on one thing,
12:01
Speaker 8: making sure independent pharmacy has a strong, effective voice wherever
12:06
Speaker 8: decisions are being made.
12:09
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're expanding this team specifically under COVID. leadership of
12:14
Speaker 3: your team, Vice President of Government Relations, John Covello, with
12:20
Speaker 3: four decades of federal and state policy experience, but also
12:24
Speaker 3: joining the team is Mr. Dylan McGarry.
12:28
Speaker 1: Tell us a little bit about Dylan.
12:30
Speaker 8: Yeah, Dylan comes to us with over 20 years of
12:34
Speaker 8: experience in healthcare advocacy. He's familiar both with federal and
12:40
Speaker 8: state advocacy efforts. He was recently served as president of
12:44
Speaker 8: Franklin Strategies.
12:46
Speaker 10: Out of Pennsylvania.
12:48
Speaker 8: So the really nice thing is both our candidates that
12:53
Speaker 8: we're bringing on are almost unicorns in the sense that
12:56
Speaker 8: they have both federal and state experience.
12:59
Speaker 10: And they also come with health care backgrounds.
13:02
Speaker 1: I love it.
13:03
Speaker 11: All right.
13:03
Speaker 3: And then we're also rounding out the team with I
13:06
Speaker 3: don't know if we're calling him a pinch hitter or
13:08
Speaker 3: not or the main pitcher, but Henry. McQuade or McQuard,
13:14
Speaker 3: former congressional staffer. That's so important to really understand how
13:18
Speaker 3: things work internally. But tell us a little bit about Henry.
13:22
Speaker 10: Yeah, he comes out of Iowa.
13:25
Speaker 8: He has a lot of state experience there, worked for
13:28
Speaker 8: a big health care hospital system, as well as worked
13:34
Speaker 8: with Representative Loebsack out on Capitol Hill in Washington, D.C.
13:39
Speaker 10: For a few years.
13:40
Speaker 8: So once again, We're making the investment to bring people
13:44
Speaker 8: in that have the talent and the experience to really
13:48
Speaker 8: make a big difference for independent pharmacies.
13:51
Speaker 1: I love it.
13:52
Speaker 3: All right, Mark, give us an update. What are some
13:55
Speaker 3: of the state policies and state bills that you guys
14:00
Speaker 3: are working on that you'd like our listeners to really
14:03
Speaker 3: get an update on and understand?
14:05
Speaker 8: Well, I think the, you know, commercial floor reimbursements that's
14:10
Speaker 8: now passed in more than 10 states across the country,
14:14
Speaker 8: more recently with, you know, Montana, Colorado, Iowa, Kentucky, these
14:23
Speaker 8: states have recognized that, you know, it's really important to
14:27
Speaker 8: have those local community pharmacies as part of the healthcare solution.
14:33
Speaker 10: And as you know, there's a.
14:36
Speaker 8: A lot of deserts now, pharmacy and healthcare deserts, not
14:42
Speaker 8: just in one state, but really across the country. And
14:46
Speaker 8: what we're seeing is this is an opportune moment for,
14:50
Speaker 8: I think, especially independent pharmacy that have served these patients
14:56
Speaker 8: many times for generations, is there's a lot of momentum
14:59
Speaker 8: and support in both the state legislatures, as well as
15:04
Speaker 8: I think out in Congress as well, as evidenced by
15:07
Speaker 8: passing some pretty good PBM reform legislation this last year.
15:12
Speaker 8: So in the states, we got great momentum, PBM reform,
15:17
Speaker 8: provider status. We are on the lookout for some restrictions
15:23
Speaker 8: around compounding that may not be reasonable. And we want
15:27
Speaker 8: to make sure that we're also looking at potential legislation
15:31
Speaker 8: that could be harmful not just running our legislation that
15:35
Speaker 8: we think benefits community pharmacy.
15:39
Speaker 3: Yeah, we see huge numbers coming out of CMS with
15:45
Speaker 3: their Rural Health Transformation Program representing $ 50 billion investment spread
15:51
Speaker 3: over the next five years from 2026 through 2030, and
15:56
Speaker 3: how much those funds are needed to fill in the
15:59
Speaker 3: gaps where we're seeing A lot of pharmacies collapse. The
16:03
Speaker 3: close of Rite Aid has really caused a lot of problems,
16:07
Speaker 3: and independent community pharmacies are stepping up. Matter of fact,
16:11
Speaker 3: three pharmacies just in my local area have now been,
16:16
Speaker 3: which were closed, they were two Rite Aids and a Walgreens.
16:20
Speaker 3: Those locations have now been adopted by independent community pharmacies
16:25
Speaker 3: to assure that those pockets of community still have access
16:30
Speaker 3: to medication management. So this is a huge opportunity for
16:34
Speaker 3: our independents to step in with some of the legislation
16:37
Speaker 3: and the bills that you guys are helping out in.
16:41
Speaker 3: And I would encourage listeners that if you're curious about
16:44
Speaker 3: those kinds of opportunities, I want you to reach out
16:47
Speaker 3: to the IPC team because they have their finger on
16:49
Speaker 3: the pulse. And if they don't have a pharmacy in
16:53
Speaker 3: a location, they'll tell you what locations are open and available.
16:57
Speaker 3: But Mark, this is important to combine not only our
17:02
Speaker 3: government relations, but strategy about where pharmacy pockets are open,
17:07
Speaker 3: where there's those rural areas that just don't have any
17:10
Speaker 3: services at all.
17:13
Speaker 8: Yeah, Todd, that's exactly correct. And I, again, I think
17:18
Speaker 8: state policymakers understand this now, and that's why we, we
17:24
Speaker 8: have such support, uh, to make sure that in those areas,
17:28
Speaker 8: you know, they do have, you know, many times the
17:31
Speaker 8: local pharmacy in these small rural towns, uh, they are
17:35
Speaker 8: the primary healthcare provider, right? They may not have a
17:38
Speaker 8: hospital there and they may not have local physicians. And
17:42
Speaker 8: so it's really important that, uh, you know, patients have
17:46
Speaker 8: a point, an access point to healthcare.
17:50
Speaker 10: And many times, again, that might be that local pharmacy. Absolutely.
17:54
Speaker 3: Well, shout out to John Covello. We love dealing and
17:57
Speaker 3: working with you, John. Congratulations on your promotion. Congratulations to
18:02
Speaker 3: Dylan McGarry and Henry Marquard. Mark, this has been a
18:08
Speaker 3: great update. We appreciate you. We appreciate IPC. Thank you
18:11
Speaker 3: for sponsoring today's This Week in Pharmacy.
18:16
Speaker 6: Thanks, Todd.
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19:18
Speaker 3: Hey, on this week in pharmacy, let's talk about rural health.
19:23
Speaker 3: Does not run off the tongue easily when you say
19:25
Speaker 3: rural health.
19:27
Speaker 1: Is it Royal Health? Royal Health?
19:30
Speaker 3: Healthcare out there in the boonies. I live kind of
19:34
Speaker 3: in the boonies. Fayette County, Pennsylvania, south of Pittsburgh. We
19:38
Speaker 3: don't have as many independent community pharmacies as we'd like,
19:42
Speaker 3: especially when you start going up into the mountains where
19:45
Speaker 3: Nemacolon is at. There was a report that just came
19:48
Speaker 3: out in October from Drug Topics, and the title was
19:52
Speaker 3: Rural Health Transformation, Community Pharmacy as an Essential Piece of
19:57
Speaker 3: Infrastructure for Healthcare.
20:00
Speaker 1: I want to welcome.
20:01
Speaker 3: Back Shelly Bailey with IPC Shelley, you and I have
20:06
Speaker 3: talked about this before, but it's great to see you again.
20:09
Speaker 3: And you've been all over the world with your adventures
20:13
Speaker 3: in pharmacy land.
20:15
Speaker 1: So how are you?
20:16
Speaker 12: Oh, I'm well.
20:18
Speaker 11: Todd's alluding to the fact that I just returned from
20:20
Speaker 11: Portugal with my family and was able to visit, unfortunately,
20:24
Speaker 11: some pharmacies in Portugal when I was there, too. But
20:27
Speaker 11: I'm as rested as I could be coming back this week. Todd,
20:32
Speaker 11: it's fun to talk to for me about rural health, too,
20:35
Speaker 11: because I live in Oregon and a lot of, you know,
20:39
Speaker 11: Oregon is rural. And actually where my family is from,
20:42
Speaker 11: there's one stoplight in the whole county. And the joke
20:45
Speaker 11: is that they know you're from out of town if
20:48
Speaker 11: you actually abide by the stoplight, because everyone that's local
20:51
Speaker 11: just is like, well, it's kind of like a suggestion. Right.
20:54
Speaker 12: It's not really like.
20:55
Speaker 4: Only the out-of-towners use it. So rural health is very
20:58
Speaker 4: near and dear to my heart.
21:00
Speaker 11: So I'm very happy to talk about it today.
21:03
Speaker 3: It's very relevant in preparation when we start thinking of
21:07
Speaker 3: the new year and some of the strategies that our
21:09
Speaker 3: independent pharmacies are going to be putting into place. Independent
21:13
Speaker 3: community pharmacies serve as the primary healthcare safety net, is
21:17
Speaker 3: what they're calling it, in rural health areas where 76.5%
21:23
Speaker 3: of all pharmacy locations are independently owned. And 88.9%, let's
21:28
Speaker 3: just say 90% of residents live within five miles of
21:34
Speaker 3: a pharmacy. And as part of the Federal Rural Health
21:37
Speaker 3: Transformation Program, which is known as the RHTP, a 50 billion,
21:44
Speaker 3: that's with a B, billion dollar initiative managed by Centers
21:48
Speaker 3: for Medicaid, CMS, Medicaid and Services, Independent pharmacies are shifting
21:54
Speaker 3: from traditional pill dispensing models into frontline clinical care hubs.
22:00
Speaker 3: I want to give a shout out to my friend, Dr.
22:02
Speaker 3: Jem Hammons, who works in the Virginia Appalachian Mountains. And
22:07
Speaker 3: she tells me some of the nightmares of what people
22:10
Speaker 3: have to go through just to get health care services
22:13
Speaker 3: because of how spread out they are. And I'm sure
22:16
Speaker 3: Oregon has pockets, very big pockets of areas that are
22:21
Speaker 3: the same way. Shelly, let's talk more about this for
22:24
Speaker 3: our listeners and the opportunity before them.
22:28
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, absolutely. It's like so many things in our industry, right, Todd?
22:33
Speaker 11: It's fragmented because while it's a federal program, it's up
22:37
Speaker 11: to each of the governors in each state to decide
22:40
Speaker 11: really how they want to intake the dollars, how they
22:44
Speaker 11: want to use the dollars, how different grants are done.
22:47
Speaker 10: And so.
22:49
Speaker 11: Probably picking a few states as examples will probably be
22:51
Speaker 11: a little bit easier, but ultimately, you know, pharmacies aren't
22:55
Speaker 11: the only type of healthcare provider.
22:58
Speaker 4: That these RHT funds are intended for.
23:01
Speaker 11: You know, they, in very large part, health systems are obviously,
23:05
Speaker 11: you know, one of the groups of stakeholders that is
23:08
Speaker 11: very much leaning in to rural health transformation. The other
23:12
Speaker 11: thing that also won't surprise you, Todd, is when the
23:15
Speaker 11: announcements came out about RHT, also a lot of tech
23:19
Speaker 11: companies leaned in trying to be the, you know.
23:22
Speaker 4: Backend infrastructure to be able to support this. So it
23:25
Speaker 4: is a bit still, in my opinion, a little bit
23:28
Speaker 4: of a land grab.
23:29
Speaker 11: Of people trying to figure out, like, we're trying to
23:31
Speaker 11: apply for grants, but like, we don't even quite understand
23:34
Speaker 11: how the governors are going to disseminate, you know, the dollars.
23:37
Speaker 4: So it's like, we're kind.
23:39
Speaker 11: Of building the airplane in the sky, I think a
23:42
Speaker 11: little bit related to RHT. But one of the really
23:45
Speaker 11: great parts of that still though, is that pharmacies, are
23:48
Speaker 11: actually able to apply for these funds, you know, coordinate
23:52
Speaker 11: with their pharmacy state associations and kind of work in
23:56
Speaker 11: tandem so that there are some.
23:58
Speaker 4: Of these opportunities available, right?
24:01
Speaker 11: So I know, like I'll say in Oregon, I think
24:05
Speaker 11: Oregon pharmacies were awarded about $ 4 million for the 2021
24:11
Speaker 11: 2027 it could be partially 2026 but so like in
24:16
Speaker 11: their use case what some of the state pharmacy association
24:20
Speaker 11: decided in some of these grants was that they would
24:23
Speaker 11: also request funds for like remote dispensing so some independent
24:27
Speaker 11: pharmacies own the remote dispensing devices so in areas where
24:31
Speaker 11: a patient might drive 80 miles to get a medication
24:35
Speaker 11: maybe they drive five because there could now be like
24:37
Speaker 11: a remote dispensing machine that one of the independent pharmacies
24:40
Speaker 11: use so Like that's an example. Some of the other examples,
24:44
Speaker 11: you know, we know that staffing is very much a
24:48
Speaker 11: challenge for community pharmacies right now. So some pharmacies in
24:52
Speaker 11: part of the grants that they've written for rural health
24:55
Speaker 11: transformation may include, you know, monies awarded to be able
24:59
Speaker 11: to help support the pharmacy like with AI workflow to
25:03
Speaker 11: be able to, you know, simply be able to move
25:05
Speaker 11: more scripts through their ecosystem since they're struggling to be
25:08
Speaker 11: able to find labor to support that But I think
25:12
Speaker 11: one of the most consistent uses of rural health transformation
25:17
Speaker 11: grants is really and scope of grant is very much focused.
25:22
Speaker 4: On clinical services.
25:24
Speaker 5: Right.
25:24
Speaker 11: So being able, you know, we obviously know that there
25:27
Speaker 11: is a shortage of primary care providers and things.
25:30
Speaker 4: Being able to support pharmacies with technology and.
25:33
Speaker 11: Tools so that they can do the work that they're
25:36
Speaker 11: already capable of doing, right? But so that they have
25:39
Speaker 11: the platform and like an EHR system that can support
25:44
Speaker 11: documentation so that they can be able to bill for.
25:47
Speaker 4: Some of these services.
25:49
Speaker 11: And, you know, there's all sorts of vendors out there
25:51
Speaker 11: that offer great products. One thing to me that's really
25:55
Speaker 11: important when I'm thinking about when I talk to a pharmacy,
25:59
Speaker 11: how they might want to consider operationalizing it, is I
26:02
Speaker 11: also like to work with technology.
26:04
Speaker 4: Partners that push and pull into the exchange.
26:08
Speaker 11: And I know we've discussed that you'll have other speakers
26:10
Speaker 11: that are way more in-depth at this than me, but
26:14
Speaker 11: it's nice to be able to do things not in
26:16
Speaker 11: a silo, right? So if you're gonna prescribe for a
26:19
Speaker 11: certain patient, right?
26:22
Speaker 4: You have access to.
26:23
Speaker 11: Your pharmacy dispense data, right? That you could do, but
26:27
Speaker 11: it's still a little bit of a silo. So some
26:29
Speaker 11: of these vendors are really able to support polling from
26:32
Speaker 11: the health information exchanges, kind of a broader picture of
26:36
Speaker 11: what someone's health profile looks like so that when they
26:39
Speaker 11: do go to prescribe, possibly through a collaborative practice agreement
26:43
Speaker 11: or something, they're really going to be able to feel
26:46
Speaker 11: more secure that what they're prescribing is really going to
26:48
Speaker 11: be clinically appropriate because they can see the whole picture.
26:53
Speaker 11: Some examples of that would also be that a lot
26:55
Speaker 11: of these vendor partners then already provide the clinical protocols,
27:01
Speaker 11: just like a standard EMR would at a medical office,
27:04
Speaker 11: so that once you know what someone's symptoms are, the
27:08
Speaker 11: clinical protocols can help guide the pharmacist through the prescribing
27:12
Speaker 11: process for documentation and for patient safety.
27:16
Speaker 4: So, you know, Gosh, we've talked about clinical services, Todd.
27:20
Speaker 11: Like, I mean, I remember Marissa in 2004, a long.
27:24
Speaker 12: Time, right?
27:25
Speaker 11: This is not a new topic, but what's exciting to
27:28
Speaker 11: me is there's now monies available that pharmacies can work
27:33
Speaker 11: together on grants for to kind.
27:35
Speaker 4: Of offset some of the expense to be able to
27:37
Speaker 4: do this. Because, like, with meaningful use, no one cared
27:41
Speaker 4: about pharmacies back then.
27:42
Speaker 11: Like, we got charged and everyone else got money to
27:45
Speaker 11: upgrade their systems.
27:46
Speaker 4: I mean, we know we could do a whole episode
27:48
Speaker 4: on that in politics.
27:50
Speaker 11: But this is now an opportunity where there is money
27:53
Speaker 11: available to really help pharmacies become that connected healthcare hub.
27:58
Speaker 11: that we've talked about for 20 years. I know I
28:01
Speaker 11: don't look old enough to.
28:02
Speaker 4: Talk about it for 20 years, but we have, but
28:05
Speaker 4: we have, right.
28:06
Speaker 11: But to really be able to operationalize it. And so that's,
28:09
Speaker 11: what's exciting to me, what, what is challenging, right? It's like, there's,
28:13
Speaker 11: there's all this good. Now we, now we can do something,
28:17
Speaker 11: but it gets kind of down to the how, how
28:20
Speaker 11: do we do it?
28:21
Speaker 4: And each state's governors, you.
28:24
Speaker 11: Know, have, already received when they applied for the money
28:29
Speaker 11: for this year. But it then becomes a scope of
28:33
Speaker 11: what does the state association's influence look like in that state?
28:37
Speaker 11: How did everyone work together at a state level to
28:41
Speaker 11: be able to apply for grants so that you could
28:45
Speaker 11: scale the access? I think, I know you'll again have
28:50
Speaker 11: other speakers probably could talk to this more, but I
28:52
Speaker 11: think Iowa is a good example. of a state that's
28:55
Speaker 11: been able to lean into some of the rural health
28:59
Speaker 11: transformation funds that have been available.
29:02
Speaker 4: Ohio is obviously a state.
29:05
Speaker 11: That for years we've been talking about and has really
29:09
Speaker 11: been able to push some of the innovation. I know
29:11
Speaker 11: their governor proactively worked with the pharmacy associations to be
29:17
Speaker 11: able to coordinate with them and say, what do you want?
29:20
Speaker 11: What's gonna be the most meaningful? What's gonna support your
29:22
Speaker 11: bottom line? to be able to really build the foundation
29:27
Speaker 11: for everyone to grow on because those funds will be
29:30
Speaker 11: released every year based on grants and how you apply.
29:35
Speaker 11: So I look at this year and maybe even next
29:38
Speaker 11: year to an extent as really foundational years to kind
29:42
Speaker 11: of reimagine, you know, IPC always talks about the, you know,
29:46
Speaker 11: freedom to farm, you know, tagline that we use, but
29:50
Speaker 11: it's really to build a foundation so that, you know,
29:53
Speaker 11: this pharmacy 2.0 or 20.0, whatever we want to call it,
29:58
Speaker 11: you know, we're really, at a little more systematic level,
30:02
Speaker 11: able to be able to do these things together, which
30:05
Speaker 11: really also means talking to each other.
30:07
Speaker 4: And I think that's one piece.
30:09
Speaker 11: I'm not going to suggest that I'm a technology expert,
30:13
Speaker 11: but that's why I like to work with partners that
30:15
Speaker 11: are plugging into the exchanges so that anything we do
30:18
Speaker 11: as pharmacies is not in isolation.
30:22
Speaker 3: Yes. And IPC has always been good at that. plugging
30:26
Speaker 3: into partners that already have infrastructure in place so that
30:28
Speaker 3: we can pull levers and actually make money and not
30:31
Speaker 3: have the bottlenecks that came to us when we were
30:34
Speaker 3: trying to do incident two billing way back in freaking
30:39
Speaker 3: 2009 or 2010. I like that you mentioned the pharmacy associations.
30:43
Speaker 3: I want to give a shout out to our listeners.
30:47
Speaker 3: If you're not members for your state pharmacy association, make
30:52
Speaker 3: an investment in your business and buy a membership now,
30:57
Speaker 3: and then prepare for 2027 of what they're going to
31:01
Speaker 3: be doing.
31:02
Speaker 1: Shelly mentioned Ohio.
31:05
Speaker 3: The Ohio Pharmacists Association won a $ 2 million award to
31:09
Speaker 3: connect independent community pharmacies through technology platforms. Individual community pharmacies
31:15
Speaker 3: are also securing direct grants, including $ 500, 000 award for an
31:20
Speaker 3: island pharmacy in Alaska and remodeling grants in Mississippi and
31:25
Speaker 3: dedicated in other states, including Pennsylvania. Shout out to my
31:30
Speaker 3: own Pennsylvania Pharmacists Association. We have PPCN who works in
31:38
Speaker 3: 46 of our counties throughout the state to bring more
31:42
Speaker 3: clinical services that are also tied to grants.
31:46
Speaker 1: That's because of the deficit, Shelley.
31:49
Speaker 3: They say by 2036, not very far away, the U.S.
31:54
Speaker 3: could face a deficit of up to 86,000 physicians with
31:59
Speaker 3: rural communities being hit the hardest. Pennsylvania's Rural Health Transformation Plan,
32:05
Speaker 3: the RHTP, recognizes pharmacists as key stakeholders, now state leaders,
32:12
Speaker 3: to be able to recognize and do something about that.
32:15
Speaker 3: And that's where the PPCN plays into this. They're already
32:19
Speaker 3: ready to go. And that's part of the CPESN initiative,
32:24
Speaker 3: which once again is another partnership of what IPC is
32:27
Speaker 3: invested in. So the infrastructure is there and ready. You
32:30
Speaker 3: just have to reach out to the right organizations. If
32:33
Speaker 3: you're listening, I'd like you to start with IPC first
32:36
Speaker 3: and just ask lots of questions. Number two, buy your
32:40
Speaker 3: membership for your Pennsylvania obviously for PPA, but for your
32:45
Speaker 3: state membership to prepare and dig into that membership to say, hey,
32:50
Speaker 3: what grant opportunities have you already greased the rails so
32:54
Speaker 3: that by the time we hit January 1st, 2027, we're
32:57
Speaker 3: ready to go?
32:59
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, I mean, absolutely.
33:01
Speaker 11: The, you know, other groups like the APHA Foundation, too,
33:04
Speaker 11: have been really focused on being able to, you help
33:09
Speaker 11: kind of secure a foundation for pharmacies. And this, I
33:11
Speaker 11: think this is also really a better together period where
33:15
Speaker 11: it is not an exclusive, like.
33:18
Speaker 4: Independent pharmacy solution.
33:20
Speaker 11: I think pharmacy in general across retail is supporting each
33:25
Speaker 11: other and being able to do these types of initiatives.
33:28
Speaker 11: Cause everyone, you know, if, if a chain is able
33:31
Speaker 11: to advance something, it actually still benefits the independent to
33:34
Speaker 11: then learn and be able to advance it to, you know, Todd,
33:38
Speaker 11: your comment about state associations, I always remind myself when
33:41
Speaker 11: I was like 19 at my first NCPA fly-in, Danny
33:46
Speaker 11: Cottrell made a comment that was really meaningful to me
33:49
Speaker 11: about state association and national associations. He said, you know,
33:53
Speaker 11: we all buy liability insurance to protect us from like
33:56
Speaker 11: errors that we make working the bench, you know, every day.
33:59
Speaker 11: But Danny taught me, you know, 25 years ago that
34:03
Speaker 11: You also should be investing the same amount in your
34:06
Speaker 11: state and federal associations because that's your insurance for the
34:10
Speaker 11: broader group and not just for your own, you know,
34:13
Speaker 11: errors and omissions. And like, that's, that's like a, that
34:16
Speaker 11: was a little word of wisdom that really has, you know,
34:20
Speaker 11: I've tried to keep with me in my pocket throughout
34:22
Speaker 11: my career is you have to invest just as much
34:25
Speaker 11: in your state and federal associations.
34:26
Speaker 4: As you would do with professional.
34:28
Speaker 11: Liability insurance, because together you need all of those pieces.
34:32
Speaker 11: And that's also part of why in the 25 years
34:37
Speaker 11: plus I've been associated with IPC, most of that time
34:40
Speaker 11: as a member, is why IPC also leans in so
34:44
Speaker 11: heavily to supporting stores in government affairs, right? Because again,
34:48
Speaker 11: that's another piece of your kind of protection. I know
34:52
Speaker 11: at the most recent McKesson Idea Share, one of the
34:56
Speaker 11: IPC MVP pharmacies said something like, you know, we look
34:59
Speaker 11: at IPC as the bodyguard for all the things that,
35:02
Speaker 11: you know, I'm working to do. And that's where diving
35:05
Speaker 11: into things like RHT and things that when you're working
35:08
Speaker 11: the bench, pushing through 450 scripts a day, you don't
35:11
Speaker 11: have the bandwidth to be able to learn about it.
35:14
Speaker 11: You listen to this podcast at night when you're driving
35:16
Speaker 11: home and things to try to pick up some of
35:19
Speaker 11: these nuggets, but then lean into partners like IPC who
35:22
Speaker 11: are devoting employee staff time to be able to help
35:26
Speaker 11: you as a pharmacy owner operationalize these things, which ultimately
35:30
Speaker 11: helps your business and.
35:32
Speaker 4: Helps your patients.
35:34
Speaker 3: And I want listeners to know There are grants for
35:38
Speaker 3: different things. And one part of the grant that we
35:41
Speaker 3: can't forget about is connectivity. So there are sections of
35:46
Speaker 3: the rural areas. I know we have them in Pennsylvania.
35:51
Speaker 3: I actually live, the whole reason that I set up
35:53
Speaker 3: a studio in the beginning, this was 2019, 2020. I
35:56
Speaker 3: had zero internet connection to my house anywhere. on the
36:06
Speaker 3: road that I'm at. There were, there were pockets of
36:08
Speaker 3: houses that were less than a half mile away from
36:11
Speaker 3: me that had cable. Then I went in the other direction.
36:14
Speaker 3: There was houses less than a mile away that had,
36:18
Speaker 3: but I was in a sleeve of area, rural area
36:21
Speaker 3: of country that all that's out here, a bunch of
36:24
Speaker 3: cows that we had zero connectivity. So I tried a
36:30
Speaker 3: company called Hughes net, which was a satellite company. It
36:33
Speaker 3: was complete crap. And then I moved into the town.
36:37
Speaker 3: I set up my studio. I paid rent. It was
36:41
Speaker 3: a wonderful opportunity experience. But now I moved back into
36:45
Speaker 3: my home because of Starlink. And I know that Starlink
36:48
Speaker 3: has grant opportunities through coupons that they're doing with different
36:54
Speaker 3: state associations. So not only is it the programs that
36:57
Speaker 3: are ready to go, but also remember about the connectivity
37:00
Speaker 3: so that your patient's have connectivity so that you actually
37:04
Speaker 3: can do things, remote patient monitoring, telehealth services, different things
37:09
Speaker 3: for follow-up, especially for those people that are dealing with
37:12
Speaker 3: obviously chronic disease.
37:15
Speaker 4: Todd, I'm really glad you said that. I have Starlink also, at.
37:20
Speaker 11: My parents' house, we had to negotiate with a neighbor
37:22
Speaker 11: three properties over to put a satellite or a dish
37:26
Speaker 11: in his tree because he had the tallest tree in
37:28
Speaker 11: the neighborhood. And I managed that process and it was
37:32
Speaker 11: a disaster before Starlink. But to your point, it's not
37:35
Speaker 11: just connectivity, you know, for your pharmacy, it's for your patients.
37:38
Speaker 11: So those patients that have pacemakers and all these types
37:42
Speaker 11: of devices that aren't just.
37:43
Speaker 4: Like nice to have remote monitoring things. These are, have
37:46
Speaker 4: to have, you have to have that kind of connectivity. Actually,
37:49
Speaker 4: Starlink has a program. This is not sponsored.
37:52
Speaker 10: I know.
37:53
Speaker 3: I wish Starlink was sponsoring today's episode, but they're not.
37:57
Speaker 11: This is a natural discussion, but- Starlink even has a
38:00
Speaker 11: program that you can sign up for their like approximately
38:05
Speaker 11: as of.
38:05
Speaker 4: Today, like $ 55 a month.
38:06
Speaker 11: And then you can downgrade it to like a $ 15
38:11
Speaker 11: a month plan, which is something that we have in
38:13
Speaker 11: our home. But I think that to your point, getting
38:16
Speaker 11: that type of information out to your patients, you got
38:19
Speaker 11: to connect yourself and your pharmacy first. But then you
38:22
Speaker 11: have to be able to connect to your consumers. So, Todd,
38:25
Speaker 11: I did not expect we would talk about Starlink. But
38:29
Speaker 11: I think it's a really important piece of that accessibility
38:33
Speaker 11: because if a patient can't access it, whether it's point
38:36
Speaker 11: of sale, getting their prescription, getting it in the mail,
38:38
Speaker 11: they also have to be able to access the Internet
38:41
Speaker 11: to even be able to for patient safety.
38:44
Speaker 6: Absolutely. Absolutely.
38:45
Speaker 3: Shelly, we love having you on the shows and on
38:49
Speaker 3: Twerks and on IPC special features. We expect to have
38:53
Speaker 3: you back soon. I want the listeners to reach out
38:56
Speaker 3: to you with questions. We're going to put a link
38:58
Speaker 3: into your LinkedIn profile in the show notes so that
39:01
Speaker 3: people can actually connect with you. Shelly Bailey, IPC, thank
39:05
Speaker 3: you so much for being on Twerks.
39:07
Speaker 5: Absolutely.
39:07
Speaker 4: Thanks for having me today.
39:20
Speaker 3: Hey, next up on Twerk, special interview with IPC, Kelly Stovall,
39:27
Speaker 3: and their announcement in a technology way.
39:30
Speaker 10: Upgrade.
39:32
Speaker 12: You're not going to.
39:32
Speaker 3: Want to miss.
39:35
Speaker 12: This.
39:39
Speaker 3: Special announcement feature this week in pharmacy is an announcement
39:43
Speaker 3: that was put out on September 30th of this year.
39:48
Speaker 3: IPC and Tenove collaborate to advance patient care and clinical
39:54
Speaker 3: services in independent pharmacies. We have two guests that are
39:59
Speaker 3: going to unravel this for us. No mystery to the pods,
40:09
Speaker 3: I should say. Kelly Stovall with IPC. Welcome back to Twerks.
40:15
Speaker 12: Thank you, Todd. Always a pleasure to talk with you.
40:18
Speaker 12: excited to talk about this topic today. I think it's
40:21
Speaker 12: very relevant when we look to the future of independent pharmacies.
40:27
Speaker 3: We have a special guest today with us. Brandon, introduce
40:30
Speaker 3: yourself to the listeners.
40:34
Speaker 1: Hi, everyone.
40:34
Speaker 6: Todd Kelly.
40:35
Speaker 5: I'm thankful and grateful to be here to talk about
40:38
Speaker 5: this and continue the conversation.
40:40
Speaker 6: But I'm My name is Brandon Haag.
40:42
Speaker 5: I head up Tenobi in terms of the pharmacy PBM
40:47
Speaker 5: payer relationship and expanding sales partnerships and growth in that
40:52
Speaker 5: particular area.
40:55
Speaker 3: Kelly, we have heard a lot every time we go
40:57
Speaker 3: to IdeaShare or any of the conferences that we cross paths,
41:02
Speaker 3: we're talking about RPM and what this means for clinical management,
41:07
Speaker 3: what this means for revenue building. pushing out additional services,
41:11
Speaker 3: especially to those homes that have people that just can't
41:15
Speaker 3: get out of their homes. The long-term care pharmacy at
41:17
Speaker 3: home is the new buzzword and term. The partnership between
41:21
Speaker 3: Tenovi and IPC and the members' access to that remote
41:26
Speaker 3: patient monitoring technology and the remote therapeutic monitoring, the RTM technology,
41:33
Speaker 3: This is huge. I want you to kind of lay
41:36
Speaker 3: out what this announcement means. And by the way, listeners,
41:39
Speaker 3: if you want the full press release, we'll have a
41:41
Speaker 3: link in the show notes. But yeah, Kelly, give us
41:43
Speaker 3: an overview of this.
41:45
Speaker 4: Thank you.
41:47
Speaker 12: I'm really excited to talk about this because I'm pretty
41:51
Speaker 12: passionate about how this specific service or category really, I feel,
41:58
Speaker 12: is going to expand community pharmacy in a way that
42:01
Speaker 12: we haven't seen previously. remote patient monitoring, remote therapeutic monitoring,
42:08
Speaker 12: and really at the basis of that, the basis of
42:11
Speaker 12: that is remote monitoring. What can we do with remote
42:13
Speaker 12: monitoring overall? I'm really excited also to hear from Brandon.
42:17
Speaker 12: They've got some incredible devices out that is going to
42:22
Speaker 12: transform even other disease states that we haven't worked in
42:25
Speaker 12: before and how this will really, you know, I mentioned
42:29
Speaker 12: earlier that I think it will transform independent pharmacy, but
42:32
Speaker 12: I think it will transform community pharmacy, the whole industry.
42:36
Speaker 12: And so this is pretty cutting edge. And I think
42:41
Speaker 12: if you're in community pharmacy, it's something you really should
42:45
Speaker 12: be alert to and open your mind to what you
42:49
Speaker 12: can do with this, how you can expand it, because
42:52
Speaker 12: I think it is going to be an answer to
42:55
Speaker 12: taking care of any sort of rural health issues as
42:57
Speaker 12: we go along, population health, just the whole gamut. of
43:01
Speaker 12: those that have issues with accessibility and care.
43:09
Speaker 3: Yeah, I wanted to jump into this and understand the rollout,
43:13
Speaker 3: the implementation, how independent community pharmacies can become involved. And
43:18
Speaker 3: is there disease states? Are there conditions where this is
43:21
Speaker 3: the sweet spot? And then how do we continue to
43:24
Speaker 3: extend that into other treatments?
43:30
Speaker 1: I would love.
43:31
Speaker 12: Brandon, if you would like to share just a few
43:33
Speaker 12: of the devices. So Tenobi has some fantastic remote devices.
43:37
Speaker 12: You know, it starts with something, right? This is collection
43:40
Speaker 12: of data, whether it be RPM, RTM, patient is collect,
43:45
Speaker 12: we're collecting patient data. And with that, we get to
43:48
Speaker 12: act on that in a really intentional way. But let's take,
43:54
Speaker 12: let's go to some of the devices because I think
43:56
Speaker 12: that sets the stage really on, on how this process starts?
44:02
Speaker 6: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you, Kelly. Um, you know, it's, it's
44:05
Speaker 6: really about, you know, treating the whole patient.
44:08
Speaker 5: Um, so that's why we have over 60 different medical
44:11
Speaker 5: devices in our portfolio, uh, you know, in the toolkit,
44:14
Speaker 5: if you will, uh, to be able to help people
44:16
Speaker 5: with chronic conditions. And, you know, at the heart of it,
44:19
Speaker 5: our goal is to, you know, improve lives by simplifying
44:22
Speaker 5: remote care.
44:24
Speaker 6: Um, it has to be simple for the patient to use.
44:26
Speaker 6: It can't be complicated.
44:28
Speaker 5: Otherwise, that utilization adoption rate just doesn't happen. And so
44:32
Speaker 5: that's the reason why we've kind of taken a unique
44:36
Speaker 5: path of not using an app, not using Wi-Fi, just
44:39
Speaker 5: really using a simple cellular gateway that sits in the
44:43
Speaker 5: patient's home that is used to collect those readings and
44:46
Speaker 5: then get them in the hands of the care team.
44:48
Speaker 5: And in this case, community pharmacists. So they have that
44:51
Speaker 5: ability to you know, get insight into what's happening at
44:55
Speaker 5: home and really shift that conversation from, you know, reactive
45:00
Speaker 5: care to proactive care. And for us, what we wanna
45:04
Speaker 5: do is provide that portfolio of devices that are gonna
45:08
Speaker 5: be necessary to help treat the chronic conditions that, you know,
45:11
Speaker 5: folks in these areas are dealing with and the challenges
45:14
Speaker 5: they are and just make it simple and easy to
45:18
Speaker 5: use so that there is the collection of that data
45:21
Speaker 5: because the more data, the better.
45:23
Speaker 6: Decisions that can be made.
45:24
Speaker 5: And then ultimately that's going to lead for better outcomes
45:27
Speaker 5: for the patient.
45:29
Speaker 12: And, you know, when you think about the community pharmacy,
45:32
Speaker 12: this is data, right? Data is data, but someone has
45:36
Speaker 12: to look at that data. Someone has to monitor that data,
45:38
Speaker 12: act on that data. And that's really where the pharmacy
45:41
Speaker 12: sweet spot is. Someone that can, you know, really have
45:47
Speaker 12: the pulse on that, if you will, and then be
45:50
Speaker 12: able to intervene or, you know, talk with the patient,
45:54
Speaker 12: talk with the provider, decide what that next step is
45:57
Speaker 12: really to progress that patient to a better outcome health-wise.
46:03
Speaker 12: I'd love to hear that, you know, there's so much
46:08
Speaker 12: to talk about in this space. Sometimes I think it's
46:10
Speaker 12: hard to know where to start. You know, if there's
46:14
Speaker 12: anyone out there not familiar with remote monitoring, basically you
46:18
Speaker 12: have a device in a patient's home, They check their
46:21
Speaker 12: blood pressure or maybe do their pulse ox or something.
46:25
Speaker 12: That data is fed into a platform. The pharmacist can
46:28
Speaker 12: view that platform and then they can see a trend.
46:33
Speaker 12: They can track that for the last 30 days. Where
46:36
Speaker 12: is this? And it also helps with patients to look
46:39
Speaker 12: at their own health and see if it's a CGM,
46:43
Speaker 12: if it's a glucose monitoring, then they know perhaps there's
46:46
Speaker 12: certain actions that they had or took certain things perhaps
46:51
Speaker 12: in their diet that really, you know, cause this change too.
46:54
Speaker 12: So they can be more aware as well. But I
46:57
Speaker 12: think one of the just fascinating things to me is
47:01
Speaker 12: I was looking at the latest offerings that to know
47:03
Speaker 12: we had in devices, you know, outside of like, I'd
47:06
Speaker 12: love to hear a little bit about the pill bottles, the, the, the, uh,
47:11
Speaker 12: medication reminders, even the fetal Doppler, like there's some really
47:14
Speaker 12: cool things out there. Um, now that will, you know,
47:18
Speaker 12: it won't, you know, in the future, it won't just
47:21
Speaker 12: be blood pressure or glucose. It's going so far beyond that,
47:26
Speaker 12: that I think that's fascinating and that we really need
47:29
Speaker 12: to stay on top of and see how we can
47:32
Speaker 12: utilize our industry to continue to evolve in this space.
47:38
Speaker 6: Yeah.
47:38
Speaker 5: And I think that's, what's really great about working with
47:41
Speaker 5: community pharmacists. I mean, I grew up in a town
47:44
Speaker 5: of 600 people. Like I was, my grandmother had a
47:46
Speaker 5: chronic condition. Like I went to the pharmacy when she
47:49
Speaker 5: needed medication. So I saw the care that was being
47:51
Speaker 5: provided there. So I was always a firm believer in
47:54
Speaker 5: that because I saw a loved one.
47:55
Speaker 6: Being taken care of.
47:56
Speaker 5: And I saw the, uh, the compassion and the, um, uh,
48:01
Speaker 5: the enthusiasm, like the care that was being provided there.
48:04
Speaker 6: So, and I think what's great about it is that
48:06
Speaker 6: also what's great is that.
48:07
Speaker 5: As we're moving up and creating more high tech and
48:10
Speaker 5: all of this, the reason why these programs are able
48:13
Speaker 5: to be done is because of technology, but technology can
48:16
Speaker 5: be scary to a certain age group or subset of
48:21
Speaker 5: the population. And what the community pharmacist represents is that
48:25
Speaker 5: element of, and the program is the high tech, but
48:29
Speaker 5: also the high touch of community pharmacists. And I think
48:33
Speaker 5: that's what's really, really beneficial Kelly, you touched on a
48:36
Speaker 5: couple of the other devices that are in our portfolio.
48:39
Speaker 6: We know that medication adherence is a.
48:41
Speaker 5: Big challenge, whether patients forget to take their medication or
48:46
Speaker 5: they need.
48:49
Speaker 6: Reminders or anything like that.
48:50
Speaker 5: So what we want to do is put together an
48:53
Speaker 5: opportunity to collect on that data and be able to
48:57
Speaker 5: make decisions or intervene. An example I always give as
49:00
Speaker 5: we talk about some of our medication adherence devices, which
49:03
Speaker 5: are a smart pillbox, a smart pill cap and a
49:08
Speaker 5: device that we'll be launching very soon. So stay tuned
49:12
Speaker 5: on that one. Some really interesting and innovative things that
49:14
Speaker 5: are going to be proprietary just for us, which I
49:17
Speaker 5: think is going to be an opportunity for take this
49:21
Speaker 5: an even bigger step forward. But the example I always
49:25
Speaker 5: give with medication adherence is that if you see somebody
49:27
Speaker 5: stopping taking their medication, let's say it's a hypertension or
49:30
Speaker 5: something like that, after a few days, you may not
49:34
Speaker 5: know until that refill is not picked up or the
49:36
Speaker 5: refills just keep going and you don't know if they're
49:38
Speaker 5: actually taking it. And it might've been something that there
49:41
Speaker 5: was a side effect that occurred and they didn't know
49:44
Speaker 5: that there was another option out there. So instead of
49:47
Speaker 5: that conversation, maybe happening a month later or two months later,
49:51
Speaker 5: you move that conversation up and you can keep that
49:53
Speaker 5: patient medication. Like you can make that switch and get
49:57
Speaker 5: them on something that we know is going to help
49:59
Speaker 5: them out.
50:00
Speaker 6: So those types of pieces of data are the reason
50:02
Speaker 6: why we build.
50:03
Speaker 5: The devices to be able to allow for those conversations, um,
50:06
Speaker 5: to happen.
50:07
Speaker 6: Um, and across a lot of different spectrums.
50:10
Speaker 5: You mentioned our fetal heart rate monitor. We're getting bigger
50:14
Speaker 5: into maternal care just because we know.
50:16
Speaker 6: That it's a huge need across the United States.
50:20
Speaker 5: And it's very unique and there's only certain devices that
50:24
Speaker 5: are actually approved for that level of care. So we
50:26
Speaker 5: wanna make sure that those are in our portfolio so
50:28
Speaker 5: that we truly have no patient left behind.
50:30
Speaker 12: I love what you said about adherence. I think, you know,
50:37
Speaker 12: And it works so perfectly, I think, in the pharmacy
50:41
Speaker 12: space when perhaps it is a side effect that made
50:45
Speaker 12: someone stop taking the medication. A lot of times the
50:48
Speaker 12: pharmacist will know that first, or they'll see that that's
50:52
Speaker 12: not filled. Maybe they've made the call. Are you ready
50:54
Speaker 12: to have this refilled? No, I'm having trouble with that.
50:57
Speaker 12: And a lot of times it may be six months
50:59
Speaker 12: later that a patient has an office visit for that.
51:03
Speaker 12: So you really have that opportunity then to- move that
51:08
Speaker 12: to now. So, so that patient continues to be cared
51:12
Speaker 12: for and in that disease state and continues to improve
51:17
Speaker 12: rather than become stagnant or goes backward, you know, and
51:21
Speaker 12: in whatever condition they're, they're being treated for.
51:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely.
51:25
Speaker 6: That's, that's the reason to be for, for that one
51:28
Speaker 6: for sure.
51:33
Speaker 1: What's the rollout of this, Kelly?
51:34
Speaker 3: When I think of the year 2030 is supposed to
51:37
Speaker 3: be the high point of our baby boomers, which means
51:41
Speaker 3: you have another 15 to 20 years of people that
51:46
Speaker 3: are going to be needing extra care, more care, more monitoring.
51:50
Speaker 1: How are we.
51:51
Speaker 3: Communicating the prep for this surge of need to our
51:56
Speaker 3: community pharmacies?
51:59
Speaker 12: That's a great point you bring up, Todd. 2030, you know,
52:03
Speaker 12: that population, the boomer population, massive population of need there.
52:08
Speaker 12: And I think, you know, one of the things that
52:11
Speaker 12: we want to communicate to our independent pharmacies and community
52:14
Speaker 12: pharmacy actually across the board is we have to have
52:20
Speaker 12: remote monitoring, not in the boxes it's in now. Yes, yes,
52:23
Speaker 12: we can think about CMS, RPM, RTM, those things that
52:29
Speaker 12: are covered by Medicare and but I think we also
52:32
Speaker 12: have to expand our thoughts, our thought process in building
52:38
Speaker 12: a remote care model because I think, and I've talked before, Todd, cash.
52:47
Speaker 12: We always want to look at cash services for independent
52:50
Speaker 12: pharmacies as well, but there is such a potential for
52:55
Speaker 12: cash services in this space. If you'll think about maybe
53:00
Speaker 12: an aged parent and maybe the son or daughter lives
53:05
Speaker 12: out of state and they want monitoring for this parent
53:08
Speaker 12: and they're willing to pay for that. You know, perhaps
53:10
Speaker 12: there's an assisted living, an assisted living where a pharmacy
53:15
Speaker 12: could contract with an assisted living to care and monitoring
53:18
Speaker 12: this data and share it back with family. There is
53:21
Speaker 12: such a potential for growth in this space outside of
53:26
Speaker 12: the areas that we see as traditional now. And I
53:30
Speaker 12: think that's really our message to our pharmacies. Let's think
53:35
Speaker 12: outside of the box here. What can you do outside
53:39
Speaker 12: of the CMS guidelines that still really offers a very
53:43
Speaker 12: needed service to a population that needs this monitoring? And
53:49
Speaker 12: so you're not following exactly those Medicare guidelines, but you
53:54
Speaker 12: are building this business of your own to fit the
53:58
Speaker 12: needs that we know people will be wanting to have.
54:01
Speaker 12: Cause we see that all the time. It's, it's no
54:03
Speaker 12: different than telehealth. Like, you know, how many people on
54:07
Speaker 12: a regular basis, you know, they have their physician, they
54:09
Speaker 12: have their primary physician, but it's a convenience thing. Like
54:13
Speaker 12: maybe I'm traveling. Maybe I don't, maybe I can't get
54:16
Speaker 12: into my, my clinic, but I'm going to, I'm going
54:19
Speaker 12: to dial into a telemedicine visit.
54:22
Speaker 3: Right.
54:23
Speaker 12: And so that's, you know, and that's cash. So we
54:25
Speaker 12: have to think of this in that same way. How
54:28
Speaker 12: can we build this? outside of that traditional model to
54:32
Speaker 12: really serve the convenience and the needs of the expanded population.
54:41
Speaker 3: Brandon, what about you and your company being, that's the
54:44
Speaker 3: finger to the pulse of what's going to be happening
54:46
Speaker 3: with the future of remote patient monitoring, remote therapy, delivery
54:50
Speaker 3: and monitoring. There are other things you, you, you just,
54:56
Speaker 3: not just seniors, not just people that are, are not
54:59
Speaker 3: able to get out of their homes. There's going to
55:00
Speaker 3: be other applications. I know that you can't give away
55:03
Speaker 3: all the secrets per se, but can you tell us, uh,
55:06
Speaker 3: some of your research that's being done of how remote patient, uh,
55:10
Speaker 3: monitoring and therapy monitoring will expand?
55:14
Speaker 6: Yeah. Um, really I.
55:16
Speaker 5: Think it's, uh, it's, it's about, it's about the outcomes. Um,
55:20
Speaker 5: on CMS. If you're dealing with a chronic condition, it
55:24
Speaker 5: doesn't matter your age, it doesn't matter where you are.
55:27
Speaker 5: It's really about, are you getting the help that you need?
55:30
Speaker 6: And do you have a system that allows for that help?
55:35
Speaker 5: I spent a lot of time in hypertension before joining Tenobi,
55:39
Speaker 5: and we did the focus groups and research. And what
55:42
Speaker 5: we found was that upon a diagnosis of hypertension, If
55:46
Speaker 5: a patient didn't go and purchase a blood pressure monitor
55:50
Speaker 5: within seven days after that diagnosis, they didn't buy one.
55:54
Speaker 5: And that's problematic. They don't call it the silent killer
55:58
Speaker 5: for nothing. It's for that reason. So I think what's
56:03
Speaker 5: very beneficial about RPM and even like as Kelly was
56:05
Speaker 5: saying about offering additional services and that to either the
56:09
Speaker 5: patient or the family is that there's a level of
56:11
Speaker 5: oversight that can happen in a sense of like, hey,
56:14
Speaker 5: rather than you being instructed to go buy a monitor,
56:18
Speaker 5: how about we just send you one?
56:19
Speaker 6: And then you're enrolled in this program and it's, you know,
56:23
Speaker 6: it reduces.
56:25
Speaker 5: That friction point for the patient and you get that
56:29
Speaker 5: adoption and, you know, having something where anytime you can
56:34
Speaker 5: bring family involved, and I'm glad you said that Kelly,
56:36
Speaker 5: in terms of like thinking outside the box and offering
56:38
Speaker 5: these types of.
56:38
Speaker 6: Services, I mean, it truly takes a village to be
56:43
Speaker 6: able to get change.
56:44
Speaker 5: I mean, Anyone who's made a Jan 1 New Year's
56:47
Speaker 5: resolution knows that it's difficult and you need a support system.
56:52
Speaker 6: Same thing with chronic conditions.
56:54
Speaker 5: And the way that we as an organization look at
56:56
Speaker 5: this is that we always put patient first. Like, what
57:02
Speaker 5: are their needs? Like, what are their what's going to
57:04
Speaker 5: help them? And then you kind of work the process
57:06
Speaker 5: backwards of.
57:06
Speaker 6: Like, all right, who's involved? Where does the data need
57:09
Speaker 6: to go? Like, what does it need to look like?
57:11
Speaker 5: Those are the things that we're trying to help with
57:14
Speaker 5: is basically catching that and putting it in the hands
57:17
Speaker 5: of the people.
57:17
Speaker 6: That can actually make a difference.
57:24
Speaker 3: Kelly, you and I like talking about cash-based opportunities to
57:29
Speaker 3: expand business. We need more of that than just the
57:33
Speaker 3: dispense fee of a prescription. However, there are reimbursement models, too,
57:38
Speaker 3: that are connected to state reimbursement systems.
57:43
Speaker 1: Tell us a little bit about that that you've researched.
57:46
Speaker 3: Is it Medicaid or is it Medicare Part D or
57:50
Speaker 3: B or what sector of reimbursement is going to be
57:54
Speaker 3: plugged into remote patient monitoring?
57:59
Speaker 12: That's a great question. It's not going to be D, obviously.
58:01
Speaker 12: That's drugs. So we're really looking at more of a B,
58:05
Speaker 12: perhaps in some situations a C, billing. But Medicaid too,
58:11
Speaker 12: in some states, depending on state regulations and what they
58:14
Speaker 12: allow in that state, we've seen remote monitoring come into
58:18
Speaker 12: the reimbursement space in that as well. And Brandon, I
58:20
Speaker 12: know you can probably expand on this as well. And
58:23
Speaker 12: what we've also seen is more commercial coverage on some
58:28
Speaker 12: of these spaces too. So you've got maybe your Medicare
58:33
Speaker 12: Advantage plans are starting to cover some of this space
58:37
Speaker 12: as well, which is fantastic. I think that we do
58:42
Speaker 12: still have some work to do really on the reimbursement
58:45
Speaker 12: space with pharmacy. And 2027 will really be a year
58:51
Speaker 12: where we see what CMS kind of settles on, on
58:56
Speaker 12: how this can be billed and how pharmacy can fit
58:59
Speaker 12: into that. Brandon, we'd love to hear your thoughts on that.
59:05
Speaker 5: Yeah, obviously that's very top of mind for anyone that's
59:08
Speaker 5: already in and participating in an RPM program and for
59:11
Speaker 5: those that are considering it. And I think it's, it's, it's, it's,
59:15
Speaker 5: there's a lot to unpack in it. And I'll give
59:17
Speaker 5: you my opinion. And it's, you know, we're all kind
59:20
Speaker 5: of anxiously waiting for it.
59:21
Speaker 6: But I think it's, it's going to continue on.
59:24
Speaker 5: I think what, what we're going to see is that
59:27
Speaker 5: there's just going to be a better a larger emphasis
59:30
Speaker 5: on outcomes and then, you know, proving that what you're
59:34
Speaker 5: doing is actually having an impact.
59:35
Speaker 6: And I don't think that's wrong.
59:37
Speaker 5: I mean, if we look at some of the cues
59:38
Speaker 5: that are coming out in terms of like, you know,
59:40
Speaker 5: the access program, they're tying some of that reimbursement to outcomes.
59:44
Speaker 6: And I don't think that's wrong.
59:45
Speaker 5: I think, you know, what's great about this, and if
59:48
Speaker 5: you look back to 2019, when the first codes were,
59:51
Speaker 5: you know, were available and RPM really was in its
59:55
Speaker 5: infancy and started, Adoption has been great. Those numbers have
1:00:00
Speaker 5: ticked up exponentially and I think that's awesome. It helps
1:00:04
Speaker 5: people in rural areas and the oversight and all the
1:00:07
Speaker 5: stuff that we've talked about in terms of having an
1:00:10
Speaker 5: additional care team.
1:00:10
Speaker 6: To be able to help out.
1:00:11
Speaker 5: I think it's really about now, is it working and
1:00:18
Speaker 5: how do we move the carrot if necessary to be
1:00:23
Speaker 5: able to deliver those outcomes? If you look at the
1:00:26
Speaker 5: numbers for the dollars that go out, I mean, we're
1:00:30
Speaker 5: all in business, right? There has to be an ROI
1:00:32
Speaker 5: associated with these things. So I think what you're going
1:00:35
Speaker 5: to see is not maybe drastic changes right now.
1:00:39
Speaker 6: But more so.
1:00:42
Speaker 5: Next step kind of things that are going to be
1:00:44
Speaker 5: more tied to outcomes. And I think a lot of
1:00:47
Speaker 5: the responses that CMS is getting from the market is like, look,
1:00:50
Speaker 5: the programs work and we need to have, like if
1:00:54
Speaker 5: you go back to having just provider patient oversight, like
1:00:59
Speaker 5: in just a clinical setting there and not being able
1:01:02
Speaker 5: to allow care organizations or community pharmacists to participate in this, one,
1:01:09
Speaker 5: you're gonna leave a lot of patients just now in
1:01:11
Speaker 5: the lurch of already on a program and being cared for.
1:01:15
Speaker 5: And then you're gonna see adoption go way down because
1:01:18
Speaker 5: The reason why a lot of care organizations or community
1:01:21
Speaker 5: pharmacists or anybody else that's participating in these programs and
1:01:24
Speaker 5: providing that support, the reason that they're doing that is
1:01:27
Speaker 5: because the providers themselves didn't have the staff.
1:01:30
Speaker 6: Or the time to be able to do that.
1:01:32
Speaker 5: So long story short, I think it's going to maintain
1:01:36
Speaker 5: the integrity and the spirit of it.
1:01:38
Speaker 6: I think there's just going to be.
1:01:39
Speaker 5: Some more framework around delivering outcomes associated with the payment
1:01:45
Speaker 5: and the reimbursement there.
1:01:49
Speaker 12: That actually brings two things to mind. One of the,
1:01:54
Speaker 12: we did a pilot with a store that was in
1:01:57
Speaker 12: a very rural area and it was a small pilot.
1:02:01
Speaker 12: It just had like 10 patients, but it was phenomenal.
1:02:06
Speaker 12: And the feedback from those patients, I mean, it was
1:02:11
Speaker 12: just gold. It was in an area where the providers
1:02:15
Speaker 12: at the time were only there part-time and So they
1:02:18
Speaker 12: would come in a couple of days a week to
1:02:20
Speaker 12: that area. And some of the feedback that was collected
1:02:26
Speaker 12: from the patient set that went through the pilot was
1:02:30
Speaker 12: we feel more followed than we've ever felt before. You know,
1:02:36
Speaker 12: it was like it was hard for them to get
1:02:38
Speaker 12: talked to the physician if they're only there twice a week.
1:02:42
Speaker 12: You know, it was hard for them to connect. And
1:02:45
Speaker 12: they really felt like they were more monitored than they
1:02:48
Speaker 12: had ever been. And they had someone that they could
1:02:51
Speaker 12: call that day if they were experiencing problems, which was
1:02:55
Speaker 12: not something that they were used to in that area.
1:02:58
Speaker 12: So I think that, you know, that's important for our
1:03:04
Speaker 12: care agencies, CMS, to understand that dynamic. And as there
1:03:12
Speaker 12: are areas across the United States that just aren't accessible
1:03:17
Speaker 12: for patients to really access their doctors or nurses when
1:03:21
Speaker 12: they need to. And this is really an answer for that.
1:03:26
Speaker 5: Yeah, and you mentioned earlier just the 20-30 and then
1:03:29
Speaker 5: the baby boomers.
1:03:31
Speaker 6: And if you just look at the numbers, it's a
1:03:33
Speaker 6: sobering reality in a sense.
1:03:34
Speaker 5: That there's just not, one, there's not going to be
1:03:37
Speaker 5: enough beds in hospitals or care settings anyways.
1:03:40
Speaker 6: People are going to have to age in their home.
1:03:42
Speaker 5: And they need somebody that has a local presence to
1:03:47
Speaker 5: be able to help them. And I think that's, again,
1:03:49
Speaker 5: another huge opportunity for community pharmacy to play that role.
1:03:55
Speaker 6: And we all read the headlines.
1:03:56
Speaker 5: I mean, hospitals are closing in rural areas and we've
1:03:59
Speaker 5: got nursing shortages and there's burnouts and.
1:04:01
Speaker 6: All of that. Like, the reality is we need.
1:04:06
Speaker 5: To recognize that and start to have conversations like this
1:04:10
Speaker 5: to be in front of that. So we're not playing
1:04:11
Speaker 5: catch up. And it's, it's, it's, again, you, you dig
1:04:15
Speaker 5: your well before you're thirsty. Like it's, we have to
1:04:17
Speaker 5: take that approach.
1:04:20
Speaker 12: I absolutely agree. And I think, and it's not just
1:04:24
Speaker 12: our opinion. And I think that's, what's great in this space.
1:04:27
Speaker 12: It is not just our opinion. There are, there's many
1:04:30
Speaker 12: studies out there, even in the last year, that proves
1:04:33
Speaker 12: this same point. And, and that's unique for us, right?
1:04:37
Speaker 12: Is this industry? A lot of times we'll, we'll talk, Oh,
1:04:39
Speaker 12: this is a great idea. We know this works. We've
1:04:41
Speaker 12: seen this work, but the fact that we have so
1:04:44
Speaker 12: many studies now that can back that up. And, you know,
1:04:49
Speaker 12: on the outcome level, you know, around a hundred percent
1:04:53
Speaker 12: and also the financial level. And I think I'm glad
1:04:55
Speaker 12: you mentioned financial as well, because I think that's a,
1:04:59
Speaker 12: that we have to look at this in this space because,
1:05:04
Speaker 12: it has become and will become even more, you know,
1:05:10
Speaker 12: an insurance company, a payer understands that they can save
1:05:14
Speaker 12: dollars on overall patient care with this model, a lot
1:05:19
Speaker 12: of dollars. You know, when you look at some studies
1:05:22
Speaker 12: show it was a 20% decrease in readmissions, that's massive.
1:05:27
Speaker 12: Those are, that's a ton of money. And so I
1:05:31
Speaker 12: think that's a, That puts us in a unique space
1:05:34
Speaker 12: here where not only can we talk about it, we
1:05:36
Speaker 12: know we can see these outcomes and we can get
1:05:39
Speaker 12: this feedback from patients. But we also know that this
1:05:44
Speaker 12: is going to save health care dollars across the spectrum
1:05:49
Speaker 12: and big money. It's going to save big money across
1:05:54
Speaker 12: the whole industry.
1:05:57
Speaker 5: And it aligns with what you had said earlier in
1:06:00
Speaker 5: terms of commercial adoption and where you see kind of
1:06:02
Speaker 5: that going is back in 2019, 2020, when this first
1:06:06
Speaker 5: came around, it was a hypothesis. It was, hey, if
1:06:09
Speaker 5: we collect this data, if we can intervene earlier, we
1:06:13
Speaker 5: can deliver clinical outcomes. And then there's obviously going to
1:06:15
Speaker 5: be a financial component of that as well. And then
1:06:18
Speaker 5: now you fast forward to where we're at, so much data,
1:06:21
Speaker 5: the evidence is there that it does have an outcome.
1:06:24
Speaker 5: And You know, you look at what, you know, one
1:06:26
Speaker 5: year for one patient on a remote monitoring program might
1:06:29
Speaker 5: cost versus an ambulance ride from a rural area to
1:06:32
Speaker 5: a hospital. Like the numbers are so just, you know,
1:06:35
Speaker 5: they don't even line up that it makes so much
1:06:37
Speaker 5: more sense to invest in there and just invest in
1:06:40
Speaker 5: prevention as opposed.
1:06:41
Speaker 6: To something else.
1:06:44
Speaker 12: That's really the key, isn't it? It's prevention. It's actually
1:06:47
Speaker 12: allowing us to be proactively preventing problems, which is which
1:06:53
Speaker 12: is huge.
1:06:58
Speaker 3: I always know that the pharmacists that I talk with
1:07:02
Speaker 3: just got back from a conference on entrepreneurship. They're so
1:07:06
Speaker 3: interested in being much more proactive than reactive. And when
1:07:11
Speaker 3: I think of remote patient monitoring, I think of heart
1:07:13
Speaker 3: failure issues or COPD with oxygen monitoring and diabetes, hypertension,
1:07:20
Speaker 3: and of course, medication management, remote therapy monitoring. and remote
1:07:25
Speaker 3: patient monitoring, this is a huge opportunity. This represents savings
1:07:31
Speaker 3: for the states. And as a matter of fact, I
1:07:34
Speaker 3: wonder if the physicians that are prescribing specific medications or
1:07:38
Speaker 3: see patients that they know that they have social determinants
1:07:44
Speaker 3: of health, they don't have transportation, they're stuck in their home.
1:07:48
Speaker 3: Should we be training these physicians to say to these
1:07:51
Speaker 3: people that are in their home, their care rooms as
1:07:55
Speaker 3: they're observing them. Hey, you are a candidate for remote
1:08:01
Speaker 3: patient monitoring. I'm going to give you this form. Here's
1:08:04
Speaker 3: a QR code, whatever it is to activate. And let's
1:08:08
Speaker 3: be a little bit more proactive from that physician kicking
1:08:10
Speaker 3: this off and then handing it to a pharmacy who
1:08:14
Speaker 3: would go, pharmacies and pharmacy operators that understand this, they
1:08:19
Speaker 3: want to do it. So it's just like, we need
1:08:22
Speaker 3: to connect the dots where we have to educate physicians
1:08:25
Speaker 3: and saying, hey, when you come up with this condition
1:08:27
Speaker 3: and you know that your patient doesn't have transportation or
1:08:30
Speaker 3: they're considered a shut-in or something that, you know, the
1:08:33
Speaker 3: bus brought them to the clinic, that automatically kicks it
1:08:37
Speaker 3: into this proactiveness that the providers go into action of saying, hey, listen,
1:08:42
Speaker 3: you're a candidate for these services, for these monitoring services.
1:08:49
Speaker 12: And I love that you brought up heart failure because
1:08:51
Speaker 12: that is such a fantastic example of that, Todd. You know,
1:08:56
Speaker 12: on a preventive, proactive, preventive level. I mean, a weight
1:09:02
Speaker 12: scale and a daily weight is the difference in, and
1:09:08
Speaker 12: really a readmission and that, you know, and that is, that's,
1:09:13
Speaker 12: it sounds easy, right? You get on the scale every
1:09:16
Speaker 12: day and, And you think, well, why can't they just
1:09:19
Speaker 12: weigh themselves? Well, a lot of times you will get
1:09:21
Speaker 12: on a scale or maybe you won't get on a
1:09:23
Speaker 12: scale and then you'll make excuses. Well, I've probably gained
1:09:26
Speaker 12: four pounds today because I had popcorn last night without sodium.
1:09:30
Speaker 12: But in a heart failure patient, you have to monitor
1:09:33
Speaker 12: that so closely. And that really is that symptom that
1:09:37
Speaker 12: can really change the outcome. And so that was a
1:09:43
Speaker 12: great example, Todd, of how.
1:09:46
Speaker 12: Even the technology here can allow us all to be
1:09:50
Speaker 12: so proactive, um, and, and, and quickly get to a
1:09:54
Speaker 12: positive outcome instead of the opposite.
1:09:58
Speaker 6: Yeah.
1:09:59
Speaker 5: And I think the thought that comes to mind is,
1:10:01
Speaker 5: is something we, I always talk about in some of
1:10:04
Speaker 5: these program design meetings is, is it's the what and
1:10:07
Speaker 5: the why, and you can explain to the patient what
1:10:10
Speaker 5: they need to do. And Kelly and your example of
1:10:12
Speaker 5: heart failure is we need you to weigh yourself every day.
1:10:14
Speaker 6: Um, And that's great.
1:10:18
Speaker 5: But then when the patient understands the why associated with it,
1:10:21
Speaker 5: that's where you start to really get an impact because
1:10:25
Speaker 5: it's not, Hey, I'm big brother looking over, you know,
1:10:28
Speaker 5: looking at you or, Hey, um, cause there's an internal
1:10:32
Speaker 5: personal thing too.
1:10:33
Speaker 6: Like, okay.
1:10:35
Speaker 5: Like weight's a sensitive topic. Like, you know, even if
1:10:38
Speaker 5: you're regardless, do you have a chronic condition or not?
1:10:40
Speaker 6: Right.
1:10:40
Speaker 5: Like, but if they understand why a four pound gain
1:10:44
Speaker 5: or three pound or whatever might be, in a short
1:10:47
Speaker 5: amount of time, like why that's impactful, then they start
1:10:49
Speaker 5: to understand, all right, I can maybe get over a
1:10:52
Speaker 5: personal maybe situation with it and be willing.
1:10:59
Speaker 6: To share that data and be more frequent about it.
1:11:02
Speaker 5: So if we can get them to understand or make
1:11:04
Speaker 5: that connection between activity and an outcome or a prevention,
1:11:09
Speaker 5: I think we can really make a big difference.
1:11:13
Speaker 12: And I really think that's where the pharmacy can come
1:11:16
Speaker 12: in so beautifully, if you will. You know, there's a
1:11:19
Speaker 12: good relationship usually between the pharmacist and the patient. They
1:11:22
Speaker 12: see each other a lot. And, you know, if I'm
1:11:26
Speaker 12: kind of worried about this weight that I just checked
1:11:29
Speaker 12: on myself, am I going to call the doctor if
1:11:32
Speaker 12: it's a three and a half pound? Probably not. But
1:11:35
Speaker 12: I probably would call my pharmacist, right? Because I'm, you know,
1:11:39
Speaker 12: I'm more familiar with that relationship and And the fact
1:11:42
Speaker 12: that I can get the pharmacist, I can walk in
1:11:44
Speaker 12: the door and have that conversation. And that really, which
1:11:49
Speaker 12: makes this the perfect space for pharmacy to fit. And, um,
1:11:54
Speaker 12: and I love that you brought that up because I
1:11:57
Speaker 12: think that really is a great example of how pharmacy
1:12:00
Speaker 12: can really transform this to a different level because of
1:12:03
Speaker 12: that relationship.
1:12:05
Speaker 6: Yeah. It's, it's accessibility.
1:12:07
Speaker 5: Um, you know, being able to, to, to call and
1:12:11
Speaker 5: someone's going to pick up and it's going to be
1:12:12
Speaker 5: real human or I'm in town and I'm going to
1:12:15
Speaker 5: stop by and I feel comfortable having, you know, uncomfortable conversation,
1:12:21
Speaker 5: you know, with someone about my health. And I, and
1:12:23
Speaker 5: I think that's the, the biggest thing is, is that
1:12:26
Speaker 5: leveraging that compassion and the empathy that is being delivered
1:12:31
Speaker 5: at the counter.
1:12:35
Speaker 3: So Kelly, is this an opportunity for our independent pharmacies
1:12:39
Speaker 3: to send some kind of notification out to their physicians
1:12:44
Speaker 3: within their areas. They already know these physicians. They've done
1:12:48
Speaker 3: work with the patients that the physician is taking care
1:12:52
Speaker 3: of as that primary care. Sending an email, something in
1:12:57
Speaker 3: the mail, a presentation, an invitation to come to a
1:13:01
Speaker 3: webinar or something to notify the physicians, hey, we have
1:13:05
Speaker 3: these services now.
1:13:06
Speaker 1: We're ready to go.
1:13:07
Speaker 3: We're taking care of people with different issues, hypertension, heart failure,
1:13:13
Speaker 3: whatever it is, oxygen monitoring. Therefore, the physician are now like, oh, okay,
1:13:18
Speaker 3: this is already in play. So if I have a
1:13:21
Speaker 3: patient that is candidate for this, I could recommend that
1:13:25
Speaker 3: they look into it.
1:13:27
Speaker 12: Absolutely, it's a great opportunity and it's really necessary. And
1:13:31
Speaker 12: I will say, I love this industry You know, I've
1:13:35
Speaker 12: been in it for many, many years now. And so
1:13:38
Speaker 12: I feel I can be real about it, too, is
1:13:41
Speaker 12: that that's what pharmacists don't do well sometimes is really
1:13:44
Speaker 12: tell people what they're doing, you know, and market themselves
1:13:48
Speaker 12: and kind of stand on a pedestal and say, hey,
1:13:50
Speaker 12: I'm doing this and this is how I can help you.
1:13:53
Speaker 12: But that is so incredibly important as we go forward,
1:13:56
Speaker 12: especially in a space like this, that we let the
1:13:59
Speaker 12: clinics around us, the providers around us, the the facilities
1:14:03
Speaker 12: around this. Understand that we have this. This is how
1:14:07
Speaker 12: it can help you. This is how it can make
1:14:08
Speaker 12: your job easier. This is how it can take a
1:14:11
Speaker 12: patient population that perhaps is not thriving, that you're struggling with,
1:14:16
Speaker 12: with hypertension perhaps in this clinic, and help you get
1:14:20
Speaker 12: to the goal that you need as well.
1:14:22
Speaker 5: Yeah, what potential opportunities Sorry, the one thought that comes
1:14:30
Speaker 5: to mind on that topic of the provider and Todd
1:14:33
Speaker 5: to your question of like, how do you engage that
1:14:35
Speaker 5: conversation and then have, you know, Kelly, your point on
1:14:38
Speaker 5: how to have that conversation is sometimes a challenge.
1:14:40
Speaker 6: And I think one of the friction points I've seen
1:14:42
Speaker 6: or potential is that, you know, if.
1:14:47
Speaker 5: There's a, it could be perceived as like, I'm trying
1:14:50
Speaker 5: to out, source you or like i'll replace the provider
1:14:53
Speaker 5: and that's certainly not the case we need all parties
1:14:56
Speaker 5: involved we need and in fact sharing data across i
1:14:59
Speaker 5: mean it just it strengthens that opportunity for everybody involved
1:15:02
Speaker 5: so i i think there might be some hesitancy because
1:15:06
Speaker 5: you never want to bring something to the provider and
1:15:09
Speaker 5: say i'm trying to take your patient away from you
1:15:11
Speaker 5: or something like that and that's truly not the case
1:15:13
Speaker 5: here but you could see how that if if delivered
1:15:17
Speaker 5: the wrong way, the perception might be off and that
1:15:20
Speaker 5: might be a friction point for the pharmacist to have
1:15:24
Speaker 5: that conversation and maybe be reluctant to have that conversation.
1:15:31
Speaker 3: I am more than positive there are electronic health record
1:15:34
Speaker 3: systems out there that are prepared for the collection of
1:15:37
Speaker 3: data and being able to have that pharmacy management system
1:15:41
Speaker 3: being connected to different systems and then passing specific data
1:15:46
Speaker 3: back to an EHR. I don't I don't see that
1:15:48
Speaker 3: as an impossibility at all. So I think it's just
1:15:52
Speaker 3: continuing to be the treatment provider moving forward after something's
1:15:57
Speaker 3: been prescribed, after a treatment's been put in place by
1:16:00
Speaker 3: our physicians, that the quarterbacks running with the rest of
1:16:03
Speaker 3: the play. I know pharmacies and pharmacists are ready to
1:16:08
Speaker 3: do that.
1:16:17
Speaker 12: All right.
1:16:17
Speaker 3: I want to give our listeners an opportunity to learn more.
1:16:21
Speaker 1: So reaching out.
1:16:23
Speaker 3: To IPC is a very good first step at IPCRX.com.
1:16:30
Speaker 3: And that link will be in the show notes, but
1:16:31
Speaker 3: also Tenovi, T-E-N-O-V-I.com, Tenovi.com. Brandon, this has been terrific. I
1:16:40
Speaker 3: actually would like to encourage you to come back on
1:16:44
Speaker 3: the shows. Let's bring a pharmacy or two in with
1:16:47
Speaker 3: us next time to really go over the outcomes of
1:16:50
Speaker 3: what's happened to their business since, since implementing, uh, to
1:16:54
Speaker 3: know the technologies and remote therapy monitoring technologies. And Kelly, we'll,
1:16:58
Speaker 3: we'll have you here. Of course, we love talking with you, Kelly,
1:17:02
Speaker 3: always bring us great insights and we, we really appreciate
1:17:05
Speaker 3: both of your time.
1:17:08
Speaker 12: Thank you, Todd. It's a pleasure.
1:17:10
Speaker 6: Yeah. Thank you so much.
1:17:11
Speaker 5: Uh, looking forward to the next one, looking forward to
1:17:13
Speaker 5: bringing some great stories and some great, uh, Great information.
1:17:16
Speaker 6: And data back on outcomes.
1:17:19
Speaker 3: Hey, thank you for listening to Pharmacy Podcast Network's delivery
1:17:24
Speaker 3: of this week in pharmacy special feature announcement between a
1:17:28
Speaker 3: special partnership between Independent Pharmacy Cooperative and Tenovi. We thank
1:17:34
Speaker 3: you so much for listening to the Pharmacy Podcast.