Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / JFK ASSASSINATION - Ep. 410 - The Dallas Mafia

Transcript

JFK ASSASSINATION - Ep. 410 - The Dallas Mafia · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: Late night studio, standard frequency. Triple B and Joby on
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: the mystery. Dialing back to Dallas, 1963. The shadow in
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: the dark behind the history.
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: That you don't show anyone.
• 1:05
  Speaker 4: Class tonight spinning downtown dallas in the golden light smooth
• 1:11
  Speaker 4: talking truth through the velvet air dallas mafia we're standing
• 1:17
  Speaker 4: right there yeah the triple b and joey got the
• 1:20
  Speaker 4: microphone we don't leave a single conspiracy.
• 1:26
  Speaker 5: Alone Two hoes searching for the missing piece.
• 1:40
  Speaker 4: Underneath the tropical summer breeze Welcome to the Long Gunman
• 2:10
  Speaker 4: Podcast tonight. Spinning downtown Dallas in the golden light. Smooth
• 2:17
  Speaker 4: talking truth through the velvet air. Dallas Mafia, we're standing
• 2:23
  Speaker 4: right there. Yeah, the Triple B and Joby got the microphone.
• 2:28
  Speaker 5: We don't leave a single conspiracy alone.
• 2:56
  Speaker 6: Welcome to the Lone Gunman Podcast.
• 3:18
  Speaker 5: We don't leave a single conspiracy alone.
• 3:22
  Speaker 4: Triple B and Joby signing off the air.
• 3:47
  Speaker 5: Dallas Mafia, Jack Ruby, smooth, soft rock atmosphere.
• 3:55
  Speaker 6: Keep your dial tuned right here. Oh, yeah. What's up, everybody?
• 4:39
  Speaker 6: Welcome in to the Lone Gummin' podcast. I hope you're
• 4:42
  Speaker 6: feeling groovy this evening, just like we are. What do
• 4:46
  Speaker 6: you say, Mr. Joseph Borelli?
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: I think you should check yourself into an AI rehab.
• 4:57
  Speaker 6: Negative, sir. You love it.
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: I love it. I love it.
• 5:01
  Speaker 6: It was great. I love it.
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's great.
• 5:04
  Speaker 6: Hey, you can either stand against AI or you can
• 5:09
  Speaker 6: willingly submit. That's true. I am not a Terminator. I'm
• 5:14
  Speaker 6: not a T-800. I am not John Connor. I am
• 5:17
  Speaker 6: not Sarah Connor. Skynet has won the war. We are screwed.
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: Yes. If you can't beat them, join them.
• 5:25
  Speaker 6: That's right. So welcome in, everyone. It's Friday night. You
• 5:29
  Speaker 6: know what that means. We're going to be talking about
• 5:31
  Speaker 6: the Dirty Dallas Mafia this evening and also some Nancy
• 5:35
  Speaker 6: Perrin Rich because she's kind of interwoven into the story
• 5:40
  Speaker 6: of the Dallas Mafia in a couple certain ways or so. Right, Joe?
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah. She's definitely an interesting character. And I just want
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: to say, put people in the chat. Put one... if
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: you know who she is, or put a zero if
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: you don't. Because I'll be perfectly honest, I did not
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: know who she was before this week. Yes. She has
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: a fascinating tale and documents to back it up. I mean,
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: at least to prove she was not random.
• 6:20
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I've been meaning to do a show on her.
• 6:22
  Speaker 6: She kind of comes up. in the Warren Commission a
• 6:26
  Speaker 6: little bit where they talked to her.
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: And then.
• 6:32
  Speaker 6: Garrison was particularly focused in on her story as well.
• 6:38
  Speaker 6: He got some very interesting things wrong. He was about
• 6:41
  Speaker 6: ready to charge her husband with accessory to JFK's murder
• 6:45
  Speaker 6: and then found out that he had actually been dead
• 6:47
  Speaker 6: for eight years.
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: Yes, by suicide.
• 6:51
  Speaker 6: That's a problem.
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: Allegedly. By suicide.
• 6:54
  Speaker 6: Allegedly.
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: Allegedly.
• 6:55
  Speaker 6: Allegedly.
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: That's how it was ruled.
• 6:58
  Speaker 6: But we'll get there. We promise. So, yeah, I've known
• 7:02
  Speaker 6: about her, and I've seen her in and out of
• 7:04
  Speaker 6: the narratives, the various narratives of New Orleans and Dallas,
• 7:07
  Speaker 6: and I've always meant to do a show on her,
• 7:09
  Speaker 6: but I just never got around to it.
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: We have some people in the chat that are smarter
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: than I.
• 7:17
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: Scott, Derek.
• 7:20
  Speaker 6: You know, Joe, if you actually cracked a book, once
• 7:23
  Speaker 6: in a while about the case. You, you might, uh,
• 7:28
  Speaker 6: you might find out who some of these people are
• 7:30
  Speaker 6: that we talk about here on this show.
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: Yes. I mean, there are so many of these type
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: of characters that are on the outside, uh, but provide
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: very interesting context, even if it's not directly related to
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: November 22nd. Um, So we like learning about them, and
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: we will, as we do on this show, learn about
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: her later. I believe you'll kick it off.
• 7:59
  Speaker 6: Yeah. And I see some zeros in the chat. So
• 8:04
  Speaker 6: there are some others like you out here, Joe, who
• 8:05
  Speaker 6: have never heard of her, don't know anything about her.
• 8:09
  Speaker 6: And like I said, we'll get into her here in
• 8:11
  Speaker 6: a minute. But first, I want to talk to you
• 8:14
  Speaker 6: a little bit about the Mafia, and here's why. When
• 8:23
  Speaker 6: you're trying to figure out this case, Joe, you know,
• 8:26
  Speaker 6: it's something to suppose that maybe, maybe we figure it
• 8:31
  Speaker 6: out a part of the case, and maybe we're right,
• 8:33
  Speaker 6: maybe we're wrong, who knows. But then you always have
• 8:38
  Speaker 6: to explain something else. And Jack Ruby is that anomaly
• 8:43
  Speaker 6: that you have to explain, okay, if you're talking about
• 8:47
  Speaker 6: a conspiracy to silence Oswald. Which I think we can
• 8:51
  Speaker 6: all agree there was one.
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 8:56
  Speaker 6: The question is, where do the orders come from? Who
• 9:01
  Speaker 6: is Jack Ruby beholden to? Because it's not the anti-Caster
• 9:04
  Speaker 6: Cuban exiles. I'm sure he'd give two shits about them. Right.
• 9:08
  Speaker 6: So if you believe that they're involved in a plot
• 9:11
  Speaker 6: to kill Kennedy, how do you get there to Jack Ruby?
• 9:20
  Speaker 6: What Oswald does is he represents a very inconvenient situation
• 9:25
  Speaker 6: for a number of people and a number of entities.
• 9:30
  Speaker 6: No matter who set him up, right, to do the
• 9:38
  Speaker 6: hit or take the fall for the hit. Depending on
• 9:42
  Speaker 6: what you believe. Okay? Because I don't think Oswald as
• 9:47
  Speaker 6: an anomaly... in a vacuum, decided to do this on
• 9:51
  Speaker 6: his own. Even if he did do it, I think
• 9:54
  Speaker 6: there was still a conspiracy. You know what I'm saying? Like,
• 9:59
  Speaker 6: say there was, there was a plot and he, his
• 10:01
  Speaker 6: part in the plot was something, whatever it may be,
• 10:05
  Speaker 6: still part of a conspiracy. But I don't think that
• 10:09
  Speaker 6: he pulled this off in a vacuum without any help.
• 10:12
  Speaker 6: Or if he was set up to make it look
• 10:15
  Speaker 6: like he did this very well, I might add, uh,
• 10:20
  Speaker 6: then of course there is a conspiracy. The question is
• 10:25
  Speaker 6: Jack Ruby. When you start looking at everything around Jack Ruby,
• 10:31
  Speaker 6: who Jack Ruby was, where he came from, what he
• 10:35
  Speaker 6: was doing in the days leading up to the assassination,
• 10:41
  Speaker 6: who he was talking to on the phone type of thing,
• 10:47
  Speaker 6: you start to get a very Interesting picture. Now, Jack
• 10:50
  Speaker 6: Ruby said some things after he was in custody, suggesting
• 10:54
  Speaker 6: that he was scared of the John Birch Society, that
• 10:58
  Speaker 6: if they got him out of Dallas and took him
• 11:02
  Speaker 6: to Washington, then he would tell them everything that he knew.
• 11:07
  Speaker 6: He admitted after he had been in prison, allegedly, that
• 11:12
  Speaker 6: he had been told to silence Oswald by who he
• 11:15
  Speaker 6: didn't mention. So that leaves.
• 11:20
  Speaker 6: A gap that we need to fill in a little bit,
• 11:23
  Speaker 6: if we can.
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: Would you agree that it's either two parties, most likely,
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: which would be either the Mafia, and you could go
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: back to, you know, Italian Mafia, Campisi's, that stuff, I
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: know you'll talk about that, or the extreme right wing,
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: John Birch Society, right? I don't believe it was CIA
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: threatening him or Uber or whatever. It had to be
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: one of the two, right? Would you agree with that?
• 12:01
  Speaker 6: I would think it would have to be an entity
• 12:04
  Speaker 6: that Jack Ruby would have been scared of. Them actually
• 12:10
  Speaker 6: being able to do to him what they threatened to
• 12:13
  Speaker 6: do if he didn't do what he did. Right?
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: Mm-mm.
• 12:19
  Speaker 6: I mean, what's the CIA have on Jack Ruby? Probably nothing.
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 12:24
  Speaker 6: What's the FBI got on him? Maybe some gun running
• 12:27
  Speaker 6: charges from years ago. Who cares? Right.
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: Not enough to convince him to go on a suicide mission.
• 12:36
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: Essentially.
• 12:38
  Speaker 7: Right.
• 12:39
  Speaker 6: And from what we know, before November 24th, 1963, Jack
• 12:43
  Speaker 6: Ruby had never killed anyone. Either from a distance, or
• 12:52
  Speaker 6: up close, or with a knife, or with a bat,
• 12:57
  Speaker 6: or with a gun. Now, he had been in some scuffles, allegedly.
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: He did beat the shit out of a few people, sure.
• 13:04
  Speaker 6: Yeah, but killing a man is a little different. Okay? Now,
• 13:11
  Speaker 6: he did grow up on the mean streets of Chicago,
• 13:16
  Speaker 6: doing things for Al Capone's gang. allegedly, which would put
• 13:23
  Speaker 6: him in proximity of several of these known mobsters.
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 13:31
  Speaker 6: And he was an associate of many mobsters that you
• 13:35
  Speaker 6: have heard of, and we will be naming names here
• 13:37
  Speaker 6: this evening.
• 13:39
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: And I just want to point out, and we've talked
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: about this before, obviously Jack Ruby was Jewish. He could
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: never be a MAID member. Of what Colson Ulster. He
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: could only be an associate.
• 13:55
  Speaker 5: Correct.
• 13:56
  Speaker 6: But that doesn't necessarily mean that he wasn't scared of them.
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: No, no, no, no.
• 14:01
  Speaker 6: Or that he would work with them. Right, right. I mean,
• 14:03
  Speaker 6: look at Meyer Lansky, okay?
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 14:06
  Speaker 6: Jewish, not Italian. Very high up in the mafia, very smart.
• 14:11
  Speaker 6: The Italians knew that the Jews do one thing good.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: Money.
• 14:20
  Speaker 6: They're not stupid. There was lots of very high-ranking Jewish
• 14:27
  Speaker 6: people in many industries in America that the Italians would
• 14:32
  Speaker 6: use to make money.
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: Right. And just to quote back to a movie, which
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: is Godfather 2, Michael Corleone, when they go to Cuba,
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: he meets with some guy, Hyman Roth, who is... allegedly
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: supposed to be based on Meyer Lansky. So these two
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: mafias were working together, right?
• 14:56
  Speaker 6: Yeah, very closely.
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: In the interest of money. That's all it came down to.
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: It's not personal. It's just business.
• 15:05
  Speaker 6: It's just business. Now, for all of its many faults,
• 15:12
  Speaker 6: and you can point to whatever you want to, the
• 15:15
  Speaker 6: House Select Committee on Assassinations... was very keen on investigating
• 15:20
  Speaker 6: the Mafia.
• 15:23
  Speaker 7: Okay?
• 15:23
  Speaker 8: Yes.
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: Blasphemy in particular.
• 15:26
  Speaker 6: Being involved in some part of the assassination or the cover-up.
• 15:31
  Speaker 6: There have been many, many books written from that angle.
• 15:36
  Speaker 6: There have been so-called confessions, right? From people like Carlos Marcelo,
• 15:42
  Speaker 6: Sam Giancana, you know, going down the list. But, you know,
• 15:52
  Speaker 6: and when the CIA chose to use cutouts, somebody they
• 15:57
  Speaker 6: had some pull with that they could control and manipulate
• 16:02
  Speaker 6: due to the fact that they were doing a lot
• 16:03
  Speaker 6: of illegal shit. Who did they choose to do their
• 16:07
  Speaker 6: dirty work for them, Joe?
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: A lot of the times the mafia, you know, Johnny
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: Roselli is an example of one of many.
• 16:18
  Speaker 6: Correct, and it wasn't always about money because, as we'll
• 16:21
  Speaker 6: see tonight, what Castro did in Cuba after taking control
• 16:28
  Speaker 6: and kicking out all the gangsters, taking over all the casinos,
• 16:35
  Speaker 6: that put a big dent in a lot of people's pockets.
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: I think it merged the motivations of people like the CIA,
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: the mafia, and the Cuban exiles. Now you have all
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: these three elements going towards the same goal.
• 16:54
  Speaker 6: Yeah, for the Cuban exiles, it's ideology. For the mafia, it's, hey,
• 16:58
  Speaker 6: you can come get your money back. Come get your
• 16:59
  Speaker 6: shit back. Come get your land back. Come get your
• 17:02
  Speaker 6: buildings back. Come get your casinos back, your hotels, your bars.
• 17:06
  Speaker 6: Get your money back type of thing. Get back in
• 17:09
  Speaker 6: business down here. Yes, sir. So it didn't take much convincing...
• 17:16
  Speaker 6: to kind of pull the mafia in plus whatever you
• 17:20
  Speaker 6: have hanging over their head.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 17:23
  Speaker 6: Which, you know, if you remember and go back, uh,
• 17:28
  Speaker 6: the Kennedys, Bobby Kennedy in particular was starting to really
• 17:32
  Speaker 6: put the heat and the screws to the Costa Nostra,
• 17:37
  Speaker 6: you know, here in the States.
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 17:41
  Speaker 6: And, As we all know, the FBI wouldn't even acknowledge
• 17:45
  Speaker 6: that there was a Costa Nostra until the late 60s.
• 17:49
  Speaker 6: Because Hoover knew that it was a wide, wide empire
• 17:59
  Speaker 6: that they would have had to contend with. Could you
• 18:01
  Speaker 6: imagine if the FBI had tried to go to war
• 18:05
  Speaker 6: with the families back in the turn of the 50s
• 18:10
  Speaker 6: and 60s?
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: I mean, that was like the peak of their power,
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: the Mafia's power. I don't know how that would have gone.
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: I think it would have been extremely bloody and complicated, yeah.
• 18:27
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, and look, Hoover himself would go to
• 18:34
  Speaker 6: their establishments and stay and have fun and party with them, knowing...
• 18:40
  Speaker 6: And who knows? There's talk of the whole blackmail picture
• 18:43
  Speaker 6: with Hoover in a dress getting banged in a hotel
• 18:46
  Speaker 6: or something. Who knows what the truth is behind that?
• 18:50
  Speaker 6: If the mafia held that Trump card in their pocket,
• 18:54
  Speaker 6: that's a problem.
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: Or if they're playing their CIA connections against the FBI, right? Like, hey,
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: we're working with the CIA on this.
• 19:07
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 19:08
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: Maybe not in the 50s, but in the 60s, yeah.
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 19:14
  Speaker 6: So it's all a very interesting mix of folks. And look,
• 19:21
  Speaker 6: there was things in every major city across America. Maybe
• 19:26
  Speaker 6: not like in New York, you know, where you have
• 19:30
  Speaker 6: a big network of the mafia or Chicago or these big,
• 19:34
  Speaker 6: big-ass cities, right?
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
• 19:37
  Speaker 6: But you've got to remember, Joe, where Dallas is not
• 19:40
  Speaker 6: small potatoes. You know, this is the heart of the
• 19:44
  Speaker 6: oil industry where the legitimate richest people in the world
• 19:48
  Speaker 6: are living because of us.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: Oil.
• 19:51
  Speaker 6: Right? People aren't stupid. You go where the money's at.
• 19:57
  Speaker 6: You control the things that people with money like to enjoy.
• 20:02
  Speaker 6: Like nightclubs and Italian restaurants and other things.
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: Right? I'll say it nicely. Ladies. Who was?
• 20:19
  Speaker 6: And Dallas is no exception to being... having some claws
• 20:27
  Speaker 6: sunk into it from the Mafia. Now, a little bit
• 20:31
  Speaker 6: of the history of the Dallas Mafia for everybody who
• 20:34
  Speaker 6: doesn't know. Okay? Goes back to... The early 1900s. And
• 20:43
  Speaker 6: a guy named Carlo Peragno. Okay. And this guy was legit, Joe.
• 20:51
  Speaker 6: He was a native of Sicily.
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: That's a good start.
• 20:55
  Speaker 6: And he immigrated to the U.S. in 1901 with his
• 20:58
  Speaker 6: brother Joseph. They first settled in... Trey?
• 21:06
  Speaker 7: Oh, that's right.
• 21:06
  Speaker 6: He's in Japan. Shreveport, Louisiana.
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: Louisiana.
• 21:09
  Speaker 6: Of all places. And Carlo began the Dallas faction of
• 21:16
  Speaker 6: the American Mafia in 1921 with his brother Joseph as
• 21:20
  Speaker 6: his underboss. As my underboss. Carlo, later described as the
• 21:25
  Speaker 6: original head of the Mafia in Texas, was born in
• 21:27
  Speaker 6: 1876 in Corleone, Sicily.
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: Corleone.
• 21:32
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: Nice.
• 21:34
  Speaker 6: The same hometown as early New York Mafia boss Giuseppe Morello.
• 21:39
  Speaker 6: Giuseppe Morello. Joe Borello.
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: Do you think I've connected on the line?
• 21:46
  Speaker 6: There's a lot of names that sound like Borelli that
• 21:49
  Speaker 6: we'll be reading here. So, Carlo ran a real estate
• 22:00
  Speaker 6: business from his home. You always have to have some
• 22:04
  Speaker 6: kind of legitimate business, right, Joe?
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: Right, right.
• 22:07
  Speaker 6: To mask what you're doing there. And his brother Joseph
• 22:11
  Speaker 6: worked as a grocery salesman. But Joseph was not entirely
• 22:16
  Speaker 6: settled in Texas. He moved back to Louisiana for a
• 22:19
  Speaker 6: few years. He and his wife and two young daughters
• 22:22
  Speaker 6: returned to Dallas in 1914 when Carlo, or I'm sorry,
• 22:27
  Speaker 6: in 1914. And then Carlo died of natural causes in 1930.
• 22:30
  Speaker 6: And at that point, his little brother Joseph took over
• 22:34
  Speaker 6: the family after Carlo's death. He owned a number of bars,
• 22:41
  Speaker 6: controlled numerous gambling operations, and ran some minor labor rackets
• 22:46
  Speaker 6: through his construction business. You know, it all sounds familiar.
• 22:52
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 22:54
  Speaker 6: Right?
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: Yes, it does.
• 22:56
  Speaker 6: The usual template. Now, we move on to the next
• 23:05
  Speaker 6: one to take over. the Dallas Mafia, and his name
• 23:08
  Speaker 6: would be Joseph, not Borelli, Civello.
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: Civello, yes.
• 23:14
  Speaker 6: He was born in 1902 in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. He
• 23:20
  Speaker 6: was the second child born to Philip and Catherine Civello.
• 23:25
  Speaker 6: They grew up to include seven children. The family remained
• 23:28
  Speaker 6: in Baton Rouge until 23 when Philip relocated the clan
• 23:32
  Speaker 6: to Dallas and opened a grocery store. Legitimate business. Savello
• 23:39
  Speaker 6: married in 1929. Him and his wife Mary moved into
• 23:43
  Speaker 6: Philip Savello's house at 1902 Moser Avenue. Law enforcement officers
• 23:51
  Speaker 6: quickly became aware of Mr. Joseph Savello. He was convicted
• 23:55
  Speaker 6: of prohibition violations, Joe. In 1926, and he served 40
• 24:00
  Speaker 6: whopping days in jail. In 1928, Savella was again arrested
• 24:09
  Speaker 6: on liquor charges. His arrest was part of a series
• 24:13
  Speaker 6: of raids and nabbed a total of 22 suspected bootleggers
• 24:18
  Speaker 6: around the city. Savella was arrested on St. Paul street
• 24:22
  Speaker 6: with two other men, Ernie Calciano and Joe DeCarlo, not Texans,
• 24:31
  Speaker 6: by the way, uh, So just two days after their
• 24:38
  Speaker 6: arrest together, Cervelo and DiCarlo met inside the St. Paul
• 24:42
  Speaker 6: drugstore at the intersection of St. Paul and Bryan Streets.
• 24:45
  Speaker 6: Cervelo happened to be carrying a loaded shotgun at the time,
• 24:49
  Speaker 6: as one does in Dallas, downtown, at a drugstore. And
• 24:56
  Speaker 6: lo and behold, as the men were stood close together,
• 25:00
  Speaker 6: the shotgun accidentally went off, as it sometimes does, Joe.
• 25:05
  Speaker 6: and old DiCarlo was shot in the stomach. But rather
• 25:11
  Speaker 6: than flee, Mr. Civello remained with the mortally wounded DiCarlo,
• 25:16
  Speaker 6: protesting that it was just an accident. And DiCarlo, with
• 25:22
  Speaker 6: his dying breath, allegedly confirmed Civello's story. Allegedly. He was
• 25:30
  Speaker 6: arrested and charged with murder, as one is.
• 25:35
  Speaker 6: When you accidentally shoot somebody in the stomach with a
• 25:37
  Speaker 6: shotgun in the middle of downtown.
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: Well, you have to think, if you're carrying a shotgun, right,
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: you have to think it's being, like, carried under a
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: jacket vertically. Right? Like, this way. How do you then
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: shoot someone right in the stomach accidentally?
• 26:01
  Speaker 6: I don't know. That is a question only DeCarlo would know.
• 26:08
  Speaker 6: But he was arrested and charged with murder. They let
• 26:14
  Speaker 6: him out after two days, released on his own recognizance,
• 26:18
  Speaker 6: you know. There was a grand jury to... determined whether
• 26:28
  Speaker 6: or not they had enough to charge Cervelo with DiCarlo's death,
• 26:31
  Speaker 6: and they chose not to. Nothing to see here. Not
• 26:36
  Speaker 6: enough evidence, Joe.
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: The grand jury, you said? Yeah.
• 26:40
  Speaker 6: They refused to indict him.
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: Interesting. Yeah. Because grand jury is pretty much mostly civilians, right?
• 26:50
  Speaker 7: Yeah. Yeah.
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 26:54
  Speaker 5: So.
• 26:56
  Speaker 6: Cervelo assumed control, officially, of the Dallas Mafia in 1956
• 27:06
  Speaker 6: when old man Joseph Peragno finally died at the age
• 27:09
  Speaker 6: of 78. And Cervelo actually attended the infamous Appalachian meeting, Joe.
• 27:16
  Speaker 5: Oh, yeah.
• 27:17
  Speaker 6: A lot of people were busted then.
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: In 1957.
• 27:19
  Speaker 6: In 1957. a time when he controlled narcotics, gambling, prostitution,
• 27:25
  Speaker 6: and nightclubs in most of Texas, which is a big-ass state,
• 27:29
  Speaker 6: by the way. After the Appalachian meeting, the FBI began
• 27:35
  Speaker 6: keeping closer tabs on old Joey C. And in 1960,
• 27:40
  Speaker 6: Civello was indicted for conspiracy and perjury. Judge Oiving Kaufman
• 27:49
  Speaker 6: sentenced him to and 19 other mob leaders that were
• 27:53
  Speaker 6: at the Appalachian Conference to five years in prison, Joe.
• 27:58
  Speaker 6: But after serving 10 months, a U.S. appeals court overturned
• 28:04
  Speaker 6: the convictions of the 20 men. Prosecutors had proven conspiracy,
• 28:09
  Speaker 6: the court decided, but had not proven that the conspiracy
• 28:11
  Speaker 6: was designed to accomplish anything unlawful, if that makes any
• 28:16
  Speaker 6: sense whatsoever.
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: Not really.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: Okay. Oh, boy.
• 28:26
  Speaker 6: Oh, boy.
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: So after.
• 28:28
  Speaker 6: Now, Civello was in charge of Dallas at the time
• 28:35
  Speaker 6: of the whole Kennedy deal. He remained in power in
• 28:39
  Speaker 6: the Dallas Mafia until 1970. When he passed away, and
• 28:46
  Speaker 6: his buddy, another local restaurant owner and friend named Joseph...
• 28:52
  Speaker 6: A lot of Josephs here this evening. Joseph Ianni. A
• 28:58
  Speaker 6: longtime friend of Civello became the head of the organization.
• 29:03
  Speaker 6: But he had a lot of legal trouble as well.
• 29:07
  Speaker 6: Poor bastard. He allegedly only had a vague association with Marcello. Allegedly.
• 29:17
  Speaker 6: Civello was the one that had Very close ties to
• 29:22
  Speaker 6: Carlos Marcelo.
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: Wasn't he under Marcelo's umbrella, if you will?
• 29:29
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 29:31
  Speaker 7: Yes.
• 29:32
  Speaker 6: Yes. They ultimately reported to Carlos Morcillo. It was kind
• 29:38
  Speaker 6: of considered an extended territory, if you will, outside of Louisiana.
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 29:53
  Speaker 6: So he didn't last very long, Mr.
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: Ianni. Three years.
• 29:58
  Speaker 6: Three years.
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 30:02
  Speaker 6: And he's dead.
• 30:03
  Speaker 5: So.
• 30:07
  Speaker 6: Here comes another Joseph. Papa Joe. Papa Joe Campisi. Maybe
• 30:16
  Speaker 6: you've heard of him. Maybe you've even eaten at his
• 30:19
  Speaker 6: Egyptian lounge or restaurant or pizza parlor or whatever the
• 30:23
  Speaker 6: fuck it is now.
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: Right? I have.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 30:26
  Speaker 6: And he was head of the Dallas Mafia until he
• 30:29
  Speaker 6: died in 1990.
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: He made it a lot longer than the other Joe.
• 30:36
  Speaker 6: Yes. Now, Joseph Campisi was the underboss under Civello and
• 30:42
  Speaker 6: Ianni from 1959 until Ianni died in 73. So Campisi's
• 30:50
  Speaker 6: been in the game for a very long time. Very
• 30:54
  Speaker 6: long time. The consigliere.
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 31:01
  Speaker 6: What is the consigliere, Joe?
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: Explain uh it's kind of like the advisor right to
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: to the boss and the underboss like uh if you
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: know tom hagan and the godfather uh he was the
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: consigliere he gives advice to say you know michael corleone
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: and and sunny and you know what i mean and
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: and marlon brando of course um So he's kind of
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: the advisor of the family. Sometimes they're lawyers or they're
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: a trusted advisor, I guess is the short answer.
• 31:39
  Speaker 6: Yes. The consigliere from 1925 to 1957 would have been
• 31:48
  Speaker 6: Frank Ianni until he died, which I believe was the
• 31:52
  Speaker 6: other Ianni's brother, Joseph Ianni's brother. And then after that,
• 31:57
  Speaker 6: during the reign of Savello, you have Rosario Musso as
• 32:03
  Speaker 6: the consigliere, Joe.
• 32:05
  Speaker 8: Yep.
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: And yes, Scott, that is where I met you first.
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: And me and Doug. And a bunch of other researchers
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: that were there.
• 32:16
  Speaker 6: Now, a little more information about Mr. Savello. Joseph Savello.
• 32:25
  Speaker 6: He was born in Baton Rouge. He was related to
• 32:29
  Speaker 6: the Frank DeSimone of the Dragna crime family in Los Angeles.
• 32:37
  Speaker 6: Let's see. Civello was an expert marksman and regularly participated
• 32:44
  Speaker 6: in skeet shooting competitions and also shooting people with shotguns
• 32:48
  Speaker 6: in the stomach as a longtime member of the Dallas
• 32:52
  Speaker 6: Gun and Skeet Skeet Skeet Motherfucker Club.
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: Oh, that's interesting. I did not know that.
• 33:00
  Speaker 6: Interesting that the head of the Dallas Mafia at the
• 33:03
  Speaker 6: time of the Kennedy assassination was an expert marksman. Coincidence?
• 33:10
  Speaker 6: Or conspiracy?
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: Oh, boy.
• 33:18
  Speaker 6: By the early 30s, Civello had organized a crew dubbed
• 33:22
  Speaker 6: the Civello Gang by the Dallas Morning News. which included
• 33:26
  Speaker 6: cousins Sam Civello, Louis Civello, Leon Civello, Frank Ianni, Joe Cascio,
• 33:34
  Speaker 6: among others. The gang operated as associates of the Piranio
• 33:38
  Speaker 6: crime family. It was involved primarily with bootlegging and narcotics trafficking.
• 33:44
  Speaker 6: That is liquor and weed, Joe.
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: Not a bad combo.
• 33:53
  Speaker 6: I'm not sure what narcotics were big back in the 1930s, but...
• 33:57
  Speaker 6: I mean, shit, cocaine was legal back then, wasn't it?
• 34:00
  Speaker 6: You could buy it in a bottle.
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: I don't even know if it was a thing back then.
• 34:05
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, like I said, other than a little weed,
• 34:08
  Speaker 6: I don't know what was going on.
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it was mostly... And as we will get to
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: when we talk about Nancy Rich, she talks about, you know,
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: serving hard liquor, which was... classified differently than wine and beer. Allegedly.
• 34:28
  Speaker 6: Well, in 1937, he was sentenced to two concurrent 15-year
• 34:32
  Speaker 6: prison terms on narcotics charges. Cervelo and his brothers Sam
• 34:36
  Speaker 6: and Leon were caught with heroin. So, apparently heroin was
• 34:42
  Speaker 6: a thing back then.
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: Okay. That would make more sense than the white stuff.
• 34:50
  Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah.
• 34:53
  Speaker 6: Valued at $ 300, 000 wholesale price. Savello served six years at
• 35:00
  Speaker 6: Fort Leavenworth before being released in 1944. He received an
• 35:04
  Speaker 6: early parole on the recommendation of.
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: Take.
• 35:10
  Speaker 6: A guess.
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: It wasn't Hoover, was it?
• 35:21
  Speaker 6: No, it was a Dallas person.
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: Bill Alexander.
• 35:25
  Speaker 6: Close.
• 35:27
  Speaker 7: Uh.
• 35:28
  Speaker 6: Wade. Close.
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: Alright, give it to me.
• 35:34
  Speaker 6: Dallas Sheriff Bill Decker.
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: Decker, okay.
• 35:37
  Speaker 6: Recommended that Civello be let out of prison. He's a
• 35:41
  Speaker 6: good guy.
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: He's a good fella.
• 35:43
  Speaker 6: He's a friend of ours. Allegedly. Okay. Actually, Cam Peasy
• 35:58
  Speaker 6: traveled with Civello to the Appalachian meeting. So he went
• 36:03
  Speaker 6: with him.
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: I did not know that.
• 36:05
  Speaker 6: New Orleans crime family boss Marcello was angry that the
• 36:08
  Speaker 6: Genovese crime family had attempted to kill Frank Costello that year.
• 36:13
  Speaker 6: So he sent Civello instead of personally attending. Marcello said,
• 36:18
  Speaker 6: I'm not going. You go, Joe. Deal with that bullshit.
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 36:23
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: That's some good foresight on his part.
• 36:26
  Speaker 6: Yes, it was.
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: And James, I believe Rob said wholesale, so that would
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: be before, not after. Right. Not street value.
• 36:39
  Speaker 6: So, an ass ton. I don't know what $ 300, 000 is
• 36:44
  Speaker 6: in 1930s money, but I guarantee it's probably a couple million.
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, $ 3 million, and then you think... you know,
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: cut up and sold in small amounts, probably double or
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: triple or quadruple that. So you're talking millions of dollars, yes,
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: in today's money.
• 37:05
  Speaker 6: Russell Buffalino.
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: Oh!
• 37:09
  Speaker 6: Out of Philly, personally picked up Civello. Simon Scozari Scafusari.
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: By the way, Russell Buffalino was played by Joe Pesci
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: in The Irishman.
• 37:27
  Speaker 6: Yes, you're correct.
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: He was a big deal.
• 37:34
  Speaker 6: Yep, he picked up Civello, Scazzari, and Frank DeSimone at
• 37:37
  Speaker 6: the Hotel New Yorker and took them to the Casey
• 37:40
  Speaker 6: Hotel in Scranton, PA. And the next morning, he drove
• 37:44
  Speaker 6: them on to the Appalachian for the meeting, which I
• 37:46
  Speaker 6: believe is seen in the movie The Irishman. In 1959,
• 37:54
  Speaker 6: Civello was convicted of a conspiracy charge, sentenced to five
• 37:56
  Speaker 6: years in prison. Again, this is where they let him out.
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: And by the way, Rob, there are so many Kennedy
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: references in The Irishman. You have David Ferry. You have E.
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: Harold Hunt making appearances. They talk about the Kennedys like
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: a lot. So it's pretty funny. I did a rewatch
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: of it recently. And, you know, you have David Ferry
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: with the weird eyebrows and Frank Sheeran delivering a truck
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: of something to him. It's fascinating. Watch it if you haven't.
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: I believe it's on Netflix.
• 38:39
  Speaker 6: Yeah, we talked about the blind eye of the FBI, right?
• 38:42
  Speaker 6: In 1957, an FBI field office... described Civello as simply,
• 38:51
  Speaker 6: and I quote, a counselor to the Italian community at large.
• 38:58
  Speaker 6: End quote. Yeah. That's just an example of the FBI's
• 39:08
  Speaker 6: blind eye to the mafia. In the late 50s, the
• 39:14
  Speaker 6: Federal Bureau of Narcotics... I guess this is pre-DEA. Right?
• 39:22
  Speaker 6: Agent John Cusack. Not the actor.
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: No, no.
• 39:26
  Speaker 6: This is John T. Cusack. Much like John T. Martin
• 39:30
  Speaker 6: and John Martin. Don't confuse them as the same people. Although,
• 39:35
  Speaker 6: with a name like that, he might be related to
• 39:37
  Speaker 6: whoever this former Federal Bureau of Narcotics person is. Testified
• 39:43
  Speaker 6: before a U.S. Senate committee that Savella was an individual
• 39:46
  Speaker 6: of major importance in narcotics trafficking. In his 1963 hearings
• 39:52
  Speaker 6: regarding the links between organized crime and narcotics, the U.S.
• 39:56
  Speaker 6: Senate's Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations noted that Civello had criminal
• 39:59
  Speaker 6: associates that included Rocco and Peter Pellegrino of New York City,
• 40:05
  Speaker 6: Frank Torticelli, Biagio Angelica, Joe Ianni and Joe Glaviano, and
• 40:12
  Speaker 6: Nicholas Impostato, and Joseph Villadro and Joseph DeLuca of Kansas City.
• 40:19
  Speaker 3: Why are they picking on all the paisans over here?
• 40:24
  Speaker 6: It describes him as controlling all the rackets in Dallas
• 40:27
  Speaker 6: and its environs. Frank Coppola transported narcotics to Civello in Dallas.
• 40:36
  Speaker 6: This was done by a trucking company owned by John
• 40:38
  Speaker 6: Remento of the Lucchese crime family. Maybe you've heard of them.
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: Yes, one of the five families.
• 40:45
  Speaker 6: He was also close friends of James Lanza. of the
• 40:48
  Speaker 6: Lanza crime family in San Francisco, who allegedly threatened to
• 40:54
  Speaker 6: kill Larry Crayford for knocking his daughter up. Maybe you've
• 40:58
  Speaker 6: heard of him. In 1967, Civello was... That's not even
• 41:07
  Speaker 6: a joke. That's legit. Allegedly. He was a close friend...
• 41:12
  Speaker 6: Let's see. Do-do-do-do. He was approached to arrange, in 1967,
• 41:17
  Speaker 6: Civello was approached to arrange a meeting between Al Marshall,
• 41:22
  Speaker 6: not an Italian, and Nick Civello. Oh, there's a Italian.
• 41:26
  Speaker 6: Of the Kansas City, the notorious Kansas City crime family,
• 41:31
  Speaker 6: Marshall sought Civello's support in purchasing the Riviera Hotel and
• 41:35
  Speaker 6: Casino with a Teamsters fund loan. During hearings of the
• 41:41
  Speaker 6: House Select Committee on Crime, Representative Sam Steiger asked Marcello,
• 41:46
  Speaker 6: Carlos Marcello, that is, if he recalled ever meeting Joseph Zavello.
• 41:50
  Speaker 6: Marcello said, I've heard of him.
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: I'm surprised he even said that.
• 41:57
  Speaker 6: Right. Zavello himself, Joe, was close to Jack Ruby, the
• 42:05
  Speaker 6: killer of Lee Harvey Oswald. He was interviewed by the
• 42:09
  Speaker 6: FBI on January 14th, 1964. And in its investigation of
• 42:14
  Speaker 6: the assassination of John F. Kennedy, the House Select Committee
• 42:17
  Speaker 6: on Assassination said that it recognized Ruby's murder of Oswald
• 42:21
  Speaker 6: as a primary reason to suspect organized crime as possibly
• 42:26
  Speaker 6: having involvement in the assassination in some form or fashion.
• 42:31
  Speaker 6: In its investigation of Ruby to determine if he was
• 42:34
  Speaker 6: involved in criminal activities and if that involvement was related
• 42:37
  Speaker 6: to the killing of Oswald, The HSCA noted that Ruby was, quote,
• 42:42
  Speaker 6: a personal acquaintance of Cervelo and that Cervelo was an
• 42:46
  Speaker 6: associate of Marcello. The committee reported that Oswald and Ruby
• 42:53
  Speaker 6: showed a variety of relationships that may have matured into
• 42:56
  Speaker 6: an assassination conspiracy, whether it was unable to firmly identify
• 43:00
  Speaker 6: the other gunman or the nature and extent of a
• 43:03
  Speaker 6: conspiracy involving organized crime. Easy to speculate, Hard to prove, Joe.
• 43:14
  Speaker 6: Hard to prove. Joe Cervelo is buried at Calvary Hill
• 43:21
  Speaker 6: Cemetery in Dallas if you ever want to go taking
• 43:24
  Speaker 6: some flowers, folks, that are down there. Which brings us
• 43:34
  Speaker 6: to Joseph Campisi.
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: Oh. Right?
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 43:39
  Speaker 6: He's a little sus, as the kids say. He was
• 43:44
  Speaker 6: known as Egyptian Joe.
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: That makes sense.
• 43:49
  Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah. Again, head of the mafia in Dallas from
• 43:55
  Speaker 6: 1973 until his death in 1990. He was actually born
• 44:01
  Speaker 6: in Dallas, Texas. He didn't immigrate. But Campisi was the
• 44:05
  Speaker 6: underboss to then head of Dallas Mafia Joe Cervelo at
• 44:08
  Speaker 6: the time of the Kennedy assassination. Campisi and his brother
• 44:17
  Speaker 6: Sam were associated with Carlos Marcello and made trips to
• 44:20
  Speaker 6: New Orleans frequently where they would socialize with members of
• 44:24
  Speaker 6: the Marcello crime family, including Marcello's brothers. Every Christmas, he
• 44:30
  Speaker 6: sent Marcello 260 pounds of of Italian sausage. Why do
• 44:39
  Speaker 6: you think he specifically sent him 260 pounds of Italian sausage, Joe?
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: 260 pounds.
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: I mean, I.
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: Have no idea, but if I'm going to speculate, maybe
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: there was something else in the delivery?
• 45:00
  Speaker 6: I don't know.
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: No, no, no.
• 45:04
  Speaker 6: I'm going to do a little Steiner math here for
• 45:07
  Speaker 6: everybody Live on the air Okay So If we take
• 45:14
  Speaker 6: 260 pounds Right And we divide that By 52 Weeks
• 45:27
  Speaker 6: In a year Right Okay We Oh shit hold on
• 45:34
  Speaker 6: That's a big number 260 divided by 52 comes out
• 45:41
  Speaker 6: to be exactly five pounds a week or a pound
• 45:47
  Speaker 6: of sausage for each weekday of the week for a
• 45:53
  Speaker 6: whole year.
• 45:55
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: Not a crazy amount.
• 45:58
  Speaker 7: No.
• 45:59
  Speaker 3: If you break it down that way.
• 46:00
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 46:01
  Speaker 6: But it's a lot of sausage.
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: A lot of sausage.
• 46:06
  Speaker 6: A lot of Italian sausages. It's one of those Christmas jokes, Joe,
• 46:13
  Speaker 6: you know, between Italians. He also attended the wedding of
• 46:18
  Speaker 6: Michael Marcello and through Campisi, Vincent Loscalzo attempted to strengthen
• 46:25
  Speaker 6: ties between the Traficante family and Marcello. Now here's where
• 46:32
  Speaker 6: things get interesting. folks. Campisi became acquainted with somebody named R.D.
• 46:41
  Speaker 6: Matthews after he and his brother purchased the Idol Bar
• 46:45
  Speaker 6: where Matthews just happened to work. In subsequent years, he
• 46:50
  Speaker 6: would accompany Campisi on his trips to Las Vegas. Other
• 46:54
  Speaker 6: friends of his included Benny Binion of Binion Casinos in
• 46:58
  Speaker 6: Las Vegas. Also, Henry Wade Joe, maybe you've heard of him,
• 47:07
  Speaker 6: district attorney in Dallas for 30 years.
• 47:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 47:14
  Speaker 6: So Camp Easy and Wade, very good friends. Make of
• 47:21
  Speaker 6: that what you will. Camp Easy had contacts. With both
• 47:27
  Speaker 6: judicial and law enforcement persons in Dallas, he was reportedly
• 47:31
  Speaker 6: acquainted with state judges and officials in Dallas County DA's office.
• 47:36
  Speaker 6: And Bill Decker was set to step down as Dallas Sheriff.
• 47:39
  Speaker 6: Campisi hoped that Clarence Jones would serve as his replacement,
• 47:44
  Speaker 6: as it would have meant that his bookmaking operations could
• 47:46
  Speaker 6: have continued unhindered, as they had been under Bill Decker.
• 47:50
  Speaker 6: So take that for what you will. Right, a lot
• 47:55
  Speaker 6: of payoffs going on around Dallas, Joe.
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: Yes, we're not talking about physical books like JFK books.
• 48:03
  Speaker 6: Yeah, gambling operations.
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: Right, like the accounting books.
• 48:08
  Speaker 6: And DAs and judges and cops all being paid to
• 48:12
  Speaker 6: look the other way.
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: Of course, one big club.
• 48:15
  Speaker 6: Dirty Dallas.
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: Not much has changed, really. I mean, maybe not as
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: mafia heavy, but you know what I mean.
• 48:25
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I do. Now, Joseph Campisi inherited the Egyptian Lounge
• 48:33
  Speaker 6: when his father Carlo died. Joseph Savello was a frequent
• 48:38
  Speaker 6: visitor to the restaurant, as was somebody named Jack Ruby,
• 48:42
  Speaker 6: the killer of Lee Harvey Oswald. Ruby was a close
• 48:46
  Speaker 6: friend of Campisi's, and Campisi was likewise a visitor to
• 48:50
  Speaker 6: Ruby's strip clubs. Ruby dined at Campisi's restaurant the night
• 48:56
  Speaker 6: before Kennedy was assassinated, as a matter of fact. And oh,
• 49:00
  Speaker 6: by the way, Joseph Campisi was the first person to
• 49:04
  Speaker 6: visit Ruby in jail after he was arrested.
• 49:08
  Speaker 8: Right.
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: So that is, of course, something we've heard about for
• 49:15
  Speaker 3: a long time. But I would classify that as... a problem.
• 49:22
  Speaker 6: Just a coincidence, Joe. Just a coincidence.
• 49:25
  Speaker 8: Right.
• 49:26
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 49:27
  Speaker 6: Right. Now, Cam Peasy was interviewed by the FBI on
• 49:33
  Speaker 6: December 7, 1963, but was not called. to testify before
• 49:40
  Speaker 6: the Warren Commission.
• 49:42
  Speaker 3: No, Scott, that was Giancana, who was murdered while cooking
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: sausage and peppers.
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: Sorry.
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 49:56
  Speaker 6: All right, so we have Campisi not called to testify
• 49:59
  Speaker 6: before the Warren Commission. However, you would think that they
• 50:03
  Speaker 6: would have had, they understood that Jack Ruby had ate
• 50:08
  Speaker 6: dinner there the night before.
• 50:10
  Speaker 7: Right?
• 50:14
  Speaker 6: But he didn't. He did provide a deposition to the
• 50:18
  Speaker 6: HSCA on May 29, 1978, though, however, Joe.
• 50:25
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 50:26
  Speaker 6: But, of course, he admitted to nothing. Nothing. We're just friends.
• 50:30
  Speaker 6: Why are you making a big deal out of such
• 50:33
  Speaker 6: a thing?
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: What's wrong with you?
• 50:37
  Speaker 6: Which brings us back. To R.D. Matthews. Russell Douglas Matthews. A.K.A.
• 50:48
  Speaker 6: The Patch, Joe.
• 50:51
  Speaker 3: The Patch.
• 50:53
  Speaker 6: You know why they called him The Patch?
• 50:55
  Speaker 3: I don't, but I'm very intrigued.
• 50:57
  Speaker 6: Because he had a fucking patch like a pirate over
• 51:00
  Speaker 6: his eyeball.
• 51:01
  Speaker 3: Oh, wow.
• 51:03
  Speaker 6: Yes, he was missing an eye. From a scuffle in
• 51:07
  Speaker 6: his younger days, apparently. Check this out. All right, this
• 51:18
  Speaker 6: is wild shit here. And I endorse none of it,
• 51:22
  Speaker 6: by the way. So R.D. Matthews was born in Aspermont,
• 51:27
  Speaker 6: Texas on July 26, 1920. He attended the Woodrow Wilson
• 51:32
  Speaker 6: High School in Dallas, where one of his classmates, Joe, was....
• 51:41
  Speaker 3: I have no idea. You're going to have to hold
• 51:43
  Speaker 3: me there.
• 51:43
  Speaker 6: Malcolm Mack Wallace.
• 51:46
  Speaker 3: Oh, it's all coming together. LBJ did it. Oh, here
• 51:50
  Speaker 3: we go.
• 51:53
  Speaker 6: After the attack on Pearl Harbor, he enlisted into the Marines,
• 51:57
  Speaker 6: and he was awarded the Navy Cross and Purple Heart
• 52:00
  Speaker 6: for his service. After the war, he returned to Texas
• 52:04
  Speaker 6: and became involved with the Hollis DeLois Green Gang in Dallas.
• 52:11
  Speaker 6: The Hollis DeLois Green Gang. That seems like a bit
• 52:17
  Speaker 6: of a mouthful to rep. Yo, we part of the
• 52:21
  Speaker 6: Hollis DeLois Green Gang. Right.
• 52:25
  Speaker 3: Imagine that, getting like that tattooed on your arm or
• 52:28
  Speaker 3: your back.
• 52:30
  Speaker 6: But their colors were green, apparently. Go figure. He had
• 52:37
  Speaker 6: involvement in the illegal bookmaking and developed a reputation as
• 52:41
  Speaker 6: a tough guy, Joe, or an enforcer. The motherfucker they
• 52:45
  Speaker 6: would send with a baseball bat to break your fucking
• 52:47
  Speaker 6: kneecaps if you didn't pay up. Right? Ain't somebody every
• 52:54
  Speaker 6: good Italian mafia needs is a good enforcer, Joe.
• 52:57
  Speaker 3: That is true.
• 52:59
  Speaker 6: I'll break your fucking kneecaps.
• 53:00
  Speaker 3: Sigh.
• 53:06
  Speaker 6: The FBI described old R.D. as a strong arm for
• 53:10
  Speaker 6: the collection of gambling debts. He was arrested on Fort
• 53:14
  Speaker 6: Worth Avenue after the police obtained a search warrant and
• 53:18
  Speaker 6: several ounces of cocaine were found in his pocket and
• 53:24
  Speaker 6: he received a prison sentence. Fan of the old cocaine.
• 53:34
  Speaker 6: Can't blame a man In November 1949, a lady by
• 53:43
  Speaker 6: the name of Mildred Noble, Joe, the wife of Hoibet Noble,
• 53:50
  Speaker 6: was killed when her husband's car exploded. Matthews was brought
• 53:57
  Speaker 6: in and questioned by none other than Captain J.W. Fritz
• 54:03
  Speaker 6: as a suspect. And you know, Joe, Captain Fritz always
• 54:09
  Speaker 6: gets his man. You know this, right?
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 54:12
  Speaker 7: Yes.
• 54:14
  Speaker 3: Highest prosecution rate ever.
• 54:18
  Speaker 6: But when you have good connections, Joe, that shit just
• 54:24
  Speaker 6: don't matter. Because the Dallas police believe that Matthews and
• 54:32
  Speaker 6: Lois Green had placed dynamite in Noble's car. But Matthews
• 54:36
  Speaker 6: denied involvement and due to lack of evidence.
• 54:39
  Speaker 3: I was about to say lack of evidence.
• 54:41
  Speaker 6: He was never indicted. Gee, I wonder why. Well, when
• 54:48
  Speaker 6: you're friends with the DA, you know, things like that
• 54:51
  Speaker 6: can happen.
• 54:53
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 54:56
  Speaker 6: Lack of evidence. We declined to prosecute due to lack
• 55:00
  Speaker 6: of evidence. One night, an associate of Noble was sent
• 55:06
  Speaker 6: to visit Matthew's home, whom he told he needed a
• 55:10
  Speaker 6: place to stay that night. So Matthew, being an okay
• 55:14
  Speaker 6: guy that he is, agreed. And while he was asleep
• 55:18
  Speaker 6: in bed, the man shot him in the head with a.
• 55:20
  Speaker 6: 22 caliber pistol.
• 55:23
  Speaker 3: Joe? He was a good guy.
• 55:26
  Speaker 6: The bullet went through his left eye and exited his temple.
• 55:32
  Speaker 6: Get this shit. Imagine being shot in your left eye
• 55:37
  Speaker 6: and it exiting out your right temple. Okay? That's brutal, right?
• 55:47
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 55:48
  Speaker 6: Brutal. But R.D. Matthews was such a badass motherfucker. Check
• 55:54
  Speaker 6: this out. He just got shot in the eye through
• 55:58
  Speaker 6: the temple, Joe. And he proceeded to get up, get dressed,
• 56:02
  Speaker 6: and drive himself to the hospital.
• 56:09
  Speaker 7: What?
• 56:11
  Speaker 3: Hey, I mean, I drove myself to the hospital after
• 56:18
  Speaker 3: I split my whole arm open. There's a whole scar
• 56:25
  Speaker 3: going down the right. And I was like, do I
• 56:27
  Speaker 3: need to go to the hospital? And I was like, yeah, probably.
• 56:30
  Speaker 3: I tore myself, but it wasn't a shot through the eye.
• 56:34
  Speaker 3: But I can respect it. I can respect it.
• 56:42
  Speaker 6: He survived, but lost his eye, unfortunately. Hence the nickname,
• 56:47
  Speaker 6: The Patch, folks. According to Matthews, the guy who shot
• 56:53
  Speaker 6: him ended up having an accident a few years later.
• 56:57
  Speaker 4: Of course.
• 56:58
  Speaker 6: As one does.
• 57:01
  Speaker 3: They always get the revenge. It might not come immediately,
• 57:06
  Speaker 3: but it always happens.
• 57:08
  Speaker 6: Hey, you remember me, motherfucker? You missed. I mean, this
• 57:17
  Speaker 6: would be a great movie. Matthews became acquainted with Joseph Campisi.
• 57:25
  Speaker 6: again after him and his brother purchased the Idle Bar
• 57:27
  Speaker 6: where Matthews worked as a dishwasher. In subsequent years, he
• 57:31
  Speaker 6: would accompany Campisi on his trips to Las Vegas, which
• 57:34
  Speaker 6: we've read already. Let's see. In 1958, he arrived in Havana,
• 57:42
  Speaker 6: Cuba and worked for... Santo.
• 57:50
  Speaker 3: Tropicante?
• 57:52
  Speaker 6: Santo Traficante, exactly, Joseph.
• 57:54
  Speaker 3: All right, there we go.
• 57:56
  Speaker 6: At the Hotel Deauville and the San Suci. He lived
• 58:02
  Speaker 6: there from 1958 until January 1959. He owned two bars,
• 58:07
  Speaker 6: one located in the Plaza Hotel and another at the
• 58:09
  Speaker 6: Sportsman's Club on Henio Street, which he purchased in 1958.
• 58:13
  Speaker 6: Not too bad for a guy in a patch.
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 58:24
  Speaker 3: I feel like they... This was.
• 58:26
  Speaker 6: A simple dishwasher not very long before that, right?
• 58:29
  Speaker 3: I feel like they could have come up with a
• 58:31
  Speaker 3: better nickname for him than the Patch. Like something One-Eye.
• 58:36
  Speaker 6: Yeah, like One-Eyed Willie or a pirate nickname. Like, here
• 58:40
  Speaker 6: comes Captain Jack or something cooler than the Patch, right?
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 58:46
  Speaker 6: But again, we're talking about Italian gangsters here. They're not
• 58:52
  Speaker 6: very creative with their nicknames. Oh.
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: Oh.
• 58:56
  Speaker 3: What? I take offense to that.
• 58:59
  Speaker 6: Well, as well you should. Okay. At some point, while
• 59:09
  Speaker 6: in Cuba... he made the acquaintance of Jack Ruby. That
• 59:13
  Speaker 6: would be R.D. Matthews. The Warren Commission described Matthews as, quote,
• 59:18
  Speaker 6: an acquaintance, end quote, of Ruby's. Later, Matthews' relationship with
• 59:22
  Speaker 6: Ruby was examined in more detail during the tenure of
• 59:25
  Speaker 6: the HSCA. Okay.
• 59:29
  Speaker 3: And Rob, let me stop you there, because we know
• 59:31
  Speaker 3: Ruby made multiple trips to Cuba in, I believe it
• 59:37
  Speaker 3: was the fall of 59, September-ish, kind of around the
• 59:44
  Speaker 3: time that Traficante was in prison there. So I'm guessing
• 59:49
  Speaker 3: they probably met around that time, if I had to speculate.
• 59:56
  Speaker 6: I would totally agree with that assessment. For sure. R.D.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 6: Matthews ended up testifying before the HSCA on April 3rd,
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 6: 1978 in the presence of his lawyer, Harry E. Claiborne Esquire.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 6: Matthews later told author Doug Swanson that, quote, they said
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 6: Ruby had my phone number in his pocket. Eh, don't
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 6: believe it. And that he knew Ruby to, quote, speak
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 6: to him on the street, but that's it. That's it, Joe.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 6: If I saw him on the street, I'd say hi.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 3: Of course.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 6: Hey, they found your number in his pocket when they
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 6: arrested him. R.D., what's up with that? I don't believe it.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 3: Okay. Who's going to question a dude with one.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 6: Eye? And get this. This is crazy.
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: R.D.
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 6: Matthews, right? He was a close friend and associate of
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 6: casino operator Benny Binion. He actually managed Binion's Horseshoe Casino
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 6: Club in Las Vegas for Benny Binion. Matthews functioned as
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 6: muscle for Binion, patrolling the casino floor armed with a gun,
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 6: a suit, and a patch over one eye. He was
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 6: present at the hospital for the birth of Binion's daughter, Becky.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 6: Becky Binion, and the birth of her children also.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 3: Whoa.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 6: So, dude's been around the family for a long time.
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 3: Probably was a godfather to one of those kids.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 6: Probably. And on one occasion, in August 2000, at the
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 6: tender age of 80, okay, He got into a fight
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 6: with the casino manager and poker player, Bob Stupak, bitch-slapping
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 6: him in the face during a disagreement over Becky Binion's
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 6: management of the horseshoe. In November 2000, he pled no
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 6: contest to misdemeanor battery, being ordered to pay a $ 1, 000 fine,
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 6: and he died in 2013 at the age of 92. Wow.
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 6: So he's still bitch-slapping motherfuckers at 80 years old, dude.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 6: In the casino.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Rob, I just wrote down, obviously, R.D. Matthews' name
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 3: and HSCA, and I think that will have to be
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 3: part two, members-only content. That will be some good reading there.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 6: Absolutely. All right, Joe, let's get into, we'll switch gears
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 6: here and get into the little Nancy Perrine Richa.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 3: All right. Well, she was born in September 1936 in Portsmouth,
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 3: New Hampshire, which I have been to. It's a very
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 3: lovely little town, as Barbara Jean Zeitman, and was adopted
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 3: at about eight months old.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 6: Oh, she's one of them, huh? Yes, I chose them personally.
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 3: By Lawrence and Helen Matthews.
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 6: Interesting.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 3: Interesting. Becoming known as Nancy Elaine Matthews in 1961 while
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 3: married to Robert Perrin, which is obviously how she got
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 3: her name, Nancy Perrin. Rich, which was a later husband. Anyways,
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 3: Robert Perrin was a... Actually, take that down for a sec.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 3: Take that down for a sec.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 6: I just got it up.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 3: I know. That's what she said. She lived in Dallas
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 3: and worked for Ruby at the Carousel Club on Commerce Street.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 6: She did, allegedly.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 3: And July through August 1961, as a bartender and waitress,
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 3: she later remarried Robert L. Rich in April 1964 and
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 3: lived in places including California, Massachusetts, and so she got around.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 3: She came to.
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 3: Public and investigative detention after the JFK assassination because of
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 3: her statements to the FBI starting in late November 1963.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 3: We will read that in her sworn testimony before the
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 3: Warren Commission on June 2, 1964. She claimed to have
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 3: gotten the carousel job through a Dallas police contact, Detective
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 3: Paul Rayburn of the Juvenile Division. and said Ruby had
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 3: a close relationship with many Dallas police officers. We know this.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 3: Routinely providing them free hard liquor against Texas rules, women,
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 3: and other favors. So, Rob, I actually, before we go
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 3: into the PowerPoint, I thought it would be interesting to
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 3: play the clip that I sent you in our private
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 3: chat here to provide a little context and to what
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 3: she sounds like, what she looks like, and then we'll
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 3: go into the documents.
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 6: And Big Bad Bob would not kick her out of bed,
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 6: is all I'm saying.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 3: No. No.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 6: So, here we go. If you can't hear this, let
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 6: us know, okay? Because we never know if y'all can't
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 6: hear it or not. But let us know in the
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 6: chat if you cannot hear what is about to happen.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 6: All right, here we go. That's the wrong button.
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 3: You're just jonesing to see my PowerPoint, huh?
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 6: I'm trigger happy.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 3: That's what she said.
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 6: All right. Take two.
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 8: We are at the Lewiston Raceway in Lewiston, Maine, with Mrs.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 8: Nancy Hamilton, owner of the Hamilton Stables.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 3: Mrs.
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 8: Hamilton, did you testify as a witness before the Warren Commission?
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 6: Yes, I did.
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: On June 2, 1964, we have been a freelance investigator
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: for various police departments, district attorney's offices, such as the
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: Sacramento District Attorney's Office.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 6: Now, Joe, you said informant. She says a freelance investigator
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 6: for various police departments.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 6: Which is interesting.
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 3: I'm sticking to my informant claim, and I'm going to
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 3: ask you to pause it after, like, two more sentences.
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 6: All right, I'm just making sure everybody can hear this shit.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 6: I don't see anybody saying they can't.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I can hear well. Here we go.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: County of Massachusetts District Attorney's Office, Boston Police Department, and
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: various private detectives.
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 8: And before that, we were employed by Jack Ruby.
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 6: Yes, I was.
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: This was in 1961 in Dallas at his club, The Carousel,
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: and I was a bartender, waitress, and rather the manager there.
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 3: How did you get that job?
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: I had gone into Dallas not knowing anyone, and of
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: course the first place I went was the police department.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 6: Pause.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: And they were very kind and got me the job there.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 3: Okay, Rob, let me just.
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 3: Go through this hypothetical. Rob moves to California.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 3: You don't know a soul.
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 6: I don't.
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 3: Would your first stop be at the LAPD?
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: Uh, no.
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 6: Probably not. Unless I was a gigolo and for hire
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 6: who love danger and intrigue and mystery and ratting on
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 6: bad people.
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 3: Right. But if you're doing nefarious things, a.k.a. maybe prostitution
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 3: or selling liquor when you're not supposed to, why make
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 3: yourself known to the DPD? That is why That sentence there.
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 3: Of course my first stop. Not my first stop. Of
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 3: course my first stop would have been the DPD.
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 6: Do you know where I can find a job? Sure.
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 6: Go to the Carousel Club and talk to Jack Ruby.
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 6: I mean, Jesus Christ, man. Like, what in the hell?
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 6: Know.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 3: Alright, I just wanted to point that out as.
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 3: I don't know what this lady was up to, but.
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 6: And also, what do you think the over-under is that
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 6: Mark Lane banged this chick? Look at the way she's
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 6: looking at him in this interview.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 3: Well, I guess her husband, Rich, had died... in 64
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 3: or something. And I, I'm not sure exactly when this was.
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 3: I believe it was.
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 6: No, he died before the Kennedy assassination. No, she had
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 6: wanted to charge him with it. And they were like, uh,
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 6: he'd been dead for like two years before that.
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 3: Right. So you can think this is 50, uh, like 65,
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 3: maybe 66, something in that area. I'm sure we can
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 3: find it, but anyways, continue.
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 6: Cause anyway, I'd put money on Mark Lane Banger. That's
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 6: just me.
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 3: You think he was that big of a player?
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 6: Yeah, dude was a freak, man. Remember the pliers?
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 3: Vaguely.
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 6: All I'm saying is I'm sure she could get freaky
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 6: with the best of them, bro.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 3: I'm sure she could.
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 6: Okay, here we go. Back to it. Sweet Nancy.
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 3: They got you the job by Jack Ruby?
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 8: Yes, they did.
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 3: Did they know Ruby?
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: Personally, oh yes, very well, vouched for him, wonderful person,
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: great man, well known by the Dallas Police Department.
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 3: Good guy.
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 8: What were your duties there?
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: Well, general bar duties, such as setting up the liquor,
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: getting the bar ready for the evening trade, waiting tables
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: if he was shorthanded, otherwise I'd be behind the bar
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: serving the drinks.
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 8: Did you ever serve drinks to Dallas police officers?
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: Oh, yes. In fact, the Dallas police officers were the
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: special boys, shall we say. We even had private stock
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: for them.
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 3: Private stock?
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 7: Oh, yes.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: Bar liquor wasn't for them. We had names such as
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: Hagen Hague or Black Label, the very, very high-priced drinks
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: on the house, of course. That was a gross oversight
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: if you ever charged a Dallas police officer or any
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 1: official of the city of Dallas or Tarrant County.
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 8: Well, other than the Dallas police officers, what officials did
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 8: frequent the Ruby's establishment?
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: All such as your district attorney, which would be Mr. Wade.
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 3: Did you know Ruby before this?
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 5: No, sir.
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 8: Did you receive any specific instructions from Jack Ruby about
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 8: serving drinks for the Dallas police officers?
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 6: Well, well, well, Mr. Henry Wade, hello. I see we
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 6: meet again, sir.
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: Yes, in fact, Jack told me point blank, he said, Nancy,
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: if you ever, he said, intentionally or unintentionally, charge a
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: Dallas police officer, he said, you might as well go
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: look for another job. He said, don't offend them, cater
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: to them, talk with them, even if you ignore the
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: other customers, bend over backwards to be nice to them.
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 8: Did Ruby perform any of the favors of the Dallas
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 8: police officers?
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 6: Well, yeah, well, favors... call them backwards or forwards whichever
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 6: you prefer.
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah pun intended yes he was.
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: Uh i suppose so he provided girls gambling and booze.
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 8: How many dallas police officers would you estimate jack ruby
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 8: knew on a personal basis at.
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: Least half and probably two-thirds.
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 8: There were almost 1200 police officers in dallas in 1963
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 8: would you say ruby knew 600 of them.
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 3: Oh easily.
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 7: A great deal has been written about the relationship of
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 7: the Dallas Police Department with Jack Ruby. We have 1,200
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 7: men in our department, and we had each man to
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 7: submit a report regarding his knowledge or acquaintance with Jack Ruby.
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 7: Less than 50 men even knew Jack Ruby.
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: You see, Jack Ruby was a man who wanted to
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 1: be noticed, wanted to be known. And he used to
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: frequent the Dallas Police Department. And he used to brag, oh,
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: I can get this fixed for you, I can get
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: that fixed for you.
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 8: Did the Dallas Police Department or District Attorney's Office ever
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 8: do any favors for Jack Ruby?
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: Several that I could probably name, such as serving.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 3: Drinks a little late.
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 8: I mean, Ruby was permitted to serve drinks after hours.
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: He did, and no one ever interfered. And, of course,
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: it was common knowledge that he ran girls and gambling,
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: and I've never seen him any kind of a pickup
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: on it.
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 8: Did you serve mixed drinks to police officers?
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 8: Is it against the law in Dallas to serve mixed drinks?
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: Oh, yes, definitely, except in a private club.
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 3: This, of course, was not a private club.
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: No, open club.
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 8: So that every time you served a drink to a
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 8: police officer, it was a violation of the law?
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: Yes, and that's why I broke the law a few
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 1: hundred times in doing so.
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 8: Of course, the police were witnesses.
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 6: Well, I.
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: Up to a point, there was witnesses. After that, I
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: guess they probably didn't care.
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 6: There you have it.
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 3: Running girls? Drinks? What was the other one?
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 5: What?
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 3: He was running girls, drinks, and gambling. There you go.
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah. Girls, booze, and gambling.
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 8: Right.
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 3: I mean, he got the trifecta there.
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 6: Yeah. And, you know, being as close as he was
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 6: with people like Civello and Camp Easy, I can't imagine
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 6: for the life of me that Jack Ruby wasn't mixed
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 6: up even tangentially with these motherfuckers, right?
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 3: He was probably kicking up, as they call him, in
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 3: some way.
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 6: And you'd think that the mafia would have been somewhat
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 6: controlling of the whole, the girls, right? Because we know,
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 6: we know that they were all being traded around or
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 6: trafficked or whatever you want to call it between the
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 6: circuit of Dallas and New Orleans.
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 6: We know Jack Ruby went to New Orleans. That's where
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 6: he got Jada from. and brought her back to Dallas
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 6: to have her feature there. I get it. People don't
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 6: want to see the same chicks over and over again.
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 6: You kind of move them around every so often to
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 6: different clubs.
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 3: Yes. Variety is the spice of life, I believe the
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 3: term is.
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 6: It makes total sense to do that. I can definitely
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 6: see the Mafia being involved in that.
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 3: I don't see how they could have not been involved.
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 6: Yeah, as well as narcotics. I mean, look no further
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 6: than Rose Jeremy, a stripper bouncing back and forth between
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 6: New Orleans and Dallas and hooked on drugs or heroin
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 6: or whatever they had her on. So you can only
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 6: imagine how many women's lives they ruined, you know, moving
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 6: these chicks in between, you know, all these things, making
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 6: the rounds. You know, Jack would go into different clubs
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 6: in New Orleans and be like, yeah, I want that one.
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 6: I want that one. And they would make deals and stuff.
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure. I mean, listen, the bottom line always,
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 3: you know, speaks the loudest, right?
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 6: If you say so. That is the Joe Borelli quote
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 6: if I've ever heard one.
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 3: I think it's a pretty good one.
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 6: So sayeth Joseph Morelli. And I quote.
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 3: The philosopher, yes. All right. Put up my dumb PowerPoint
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 3: as we'll go through some documents here. And let me
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 3: bring this up a little closer. So they were on...
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 3: nancy elaine perrin rich pretty quickly on 11 27 63
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 3: is when this interview was conducted you could see it
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 3: at the bottom there.
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 6: Well she went to them amazingly enough she went to
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 6: them she went to them after she saw jack ruby
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 6: kill oswald.
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 3: Yes okay i i was not aware of that but
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 3: um So she's blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Worked as
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 3: a waitress in July, August 1961. Following her discharge from
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 3: Ruby's Club in 61, Perrin claims she and her husband, Robert,
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 3: now deceased, attended four meetings at an unknown apartment in
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 3: Dallas of a group of... a group arranging to run
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 3: guns to Castro in Cuba.
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 2: Hmm.
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 3: Which is interesting, because this would be kind of counterintuitive
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 3: of counter to you know what the mafia's stance on
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 3: Castro would have been in late 1961 but regardless um
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 3: Perrin states that Ruby was present at three of these meetings.
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 3: Nancy stated a United States Army colonel, name not remembered... Hello.
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 6: Colonel Castor.
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 3: Was in charge of the meetings where they discussed Enfield rifles.
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 3: Who had an Enfield rifle?
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 6: Bill Frazier.
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 2: Oh.
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 3: From Mexico... and sending them by plane and by boat
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 3: to Cuba. Nancy said she made her husband pull out.
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 3: I'm not going to even touch that one.
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 6: Not soon enough.
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 3: Of the operation and does not know if any guns
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 3: were ever received or ran to Cuba. Nancy Perrin stated
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 3: that she could find the building where the meetings were
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 3: held if she was in Dallas. Perrin stated that a, quote,
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 3: Buddy King, end quote, was a master of ceremonies and
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 3: comic entertainer in Ruby's Club and a close friend of Ruby.
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 3: Nancy feels King would know about Ruby's operations. She states
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 3: she saw, quote, syndicate men from Chicago and St. Louis
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 3: in Ruby's Nightclub. I believe that means mafia men.
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 6: Gangsters.
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 3: And she... entertained them as hostess and observed money payments
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 3: made to Ruby. The only time she could remember was
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 3: Eddie Mark from St. Louis.
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 6: And his brother Skid.
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 3: That's a good one, actually. Nancy claims Dallas police officers
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 3: frequented Ruby's club where he gave them free drinks. We
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 3: heard that, Barrett. She states Cy Victorson, Dallas attorney, was
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 3: retained by her in connection with an arrest for prostitution.
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 3: She also states detectives Paul Rayburn, Dallas Police Department, Juvenile Division,
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 3: I believe that's the person she said she got the
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 3: job from, would vouch for her. Parrott admits to call
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 3: girl operations in New Orleans, Rob, and Boston, where she
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 3: has a arrest record for prostitution.
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 6: Mm-hmm.
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 3: So, early kind of document. This is on December 6th, 63. So,
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 3: you know, a couple weeks after the assassination. Nancy... Nancy
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 3: Elaine Perrin was interviewed at the Oakland Resident Agency. She
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 3: advised that she was born in Portsmouth, New Hampshire, September blah, blah, blah.
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 3: Her name was Barbara. We already went over this. And
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 3: has been known as Nancy Elaine Matthews since she had
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 3: been adopted by a family named Matthews. She stated and married...
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 3: This is all stuff we've kind of gone over. She
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 3: got divorced. She got married. She stated she divorced this
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 3: Scafusa Rusachio by... I guess she was married in Mexico, too,
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 3: or something? By Mexican divorce at Juarez, Mexico, in 1959,
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 3: and then married... for Robert Perrin, now deceased, the next
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 3: day at Juarez. From Juarez, she and her husband moved
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 3: to Colorado Springs and later to Denver, Colorado. Arriving at
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 3: Denver in approximately 1960, she stated at this time she
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 3: began to work as a prostitute. During this period of time,
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 3: she met and acted as hostess for men who she
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 3: described as belonging to the syndicate. By syndicate, she stated
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 3: she meant the Italian mafia organization headed by Vito Genovese
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 3: of Italy, and that she had learned this from entertaining
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 3: these syndicate men, one of whom, she states, was known as.
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 6: What.
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 3: Does that say? Young Piggy? Yes.
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 6: Who says they don't have good nicknames young piggy man cheesy.
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 3: She described him as a syndicate man from New York
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 3: who was then hiding out in Denver he was on
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 3: the lam she said she does not know names of
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 3: other syndicate men she had entertained and I'm sure she
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 3: did know I just think she had.
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 6: Probably too many to remember.
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 3: Well I think she had the right intuition to stop
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 3: to not.
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 6: Name names right Except for Young Piggy. I mean, who's
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 6: scared of somebody with the nickname of Young Piggy?
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 3: Well, who knows? He could have been dangerous. She said
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 3: that in the latter part of 1960, she moved to Boston, Massachusetts,
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 3: and later to New Hampshire, where she was employed lobbying
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 3: for bills for this liquor industry and working with the
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 3: Labor Committee of the New Hampshire state legislator. And she
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 3: stated that it was her job to persuade legislators to
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 3: vote for certain bills. So like a lobbyist, right? She
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 3: said at this time, her husband, Robert, left her and
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 3: that in looking for him, she got information that he
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 3: might have gone to Dallas. So she made a long
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 3: distance telephone call from Boston to Dallas sometime in 1961
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 3: and that man she spoke to spoke with was Dallas
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 3: police officer J.D. Tippett now Rob yes on our members
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 3: only two days ago we talk about how there was
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 3: more than one Tippett in the DPD.
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 7: Yes.
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 3: And that was Gail Tippett, right, of CID, Criminal Intelligent
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 3: Investigative Division. I can't imagine J.D. Tippett was manning the phones.
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 6: No.
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 3: You know what I mean? I don't see a situation
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 3: where that happens, the patrolman, right? Especially someone of J.D. Tippett's.
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 3: I don't know what the word is.
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 2: Ilk.
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah. You know, so I could see her speaking to
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 3: the other tippet, but who the hell knows. The officer
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 3: was killed by Oswald. She said that she then proceeded
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 3: to Dallas by bus, and after arriving in Dallas, contacted
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 3: the police department, since she had only $ 4 in her pocket.
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 3: She said she arrived in Dallas in May or June
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 3: of 61, and the officers that she contacted were Paul Rayburn,
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 3: we talked about, of the Juvenile Bureau, and a detective
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 3: named House. She stated they obtained a place for her
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 3: to live, the address of which she does not recall,
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 3: of course, but that it was near Highland Park and
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 3: that she lived there about a month later moving to
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 3: Oak Street. Subsequently, her husband was located there, in South Bend, Indiana,
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 3: and he came to Dallas and they had a reconciliation.
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 3: So he wasn't really in Dallas, I guess, but whatever.
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 3: She stated she did not recall specifically how she first
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 3: came to work for Jack Ruby. At first she said
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 3: she thought one of the Dallas police officers had got
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 3: her the job and then stated she believed she also
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 3: had answered an advertisement in the newspapers. that she went
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 3: to the Carousel Club one afternoon, that no one was there,
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 3: but that she was told to return that evening. She
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 3: did come back and spoke to Jack Ruby, and that
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 3: he hired her as a bartender at the Carousel Club,
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 3: and that she started working there the same night behind
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 3: the bar. Hired on the spot.
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 6: You're hired.
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 3: Thanks for the blowjob.
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 6: You're hired.
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 3: Yes. Well, probably not for Jack, but... Oh, I guess
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 3: it doesn't matter.
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 6: Yeah, you blow Larry while I watch.
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 3: Oh, man. She stated she only served beer and setup.
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 3: ups but that some customers kept a bottle of liquor
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 3: there and in some cases they had bottles for special
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 3: friends which I believe would be DPD officers and other
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 3: administration you know people and lawyers DAs, whatever. She said
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 3: she worked for Ruby for five weeks and denied that
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 3: she engaged in prostitution at that time. She said she
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 3: did not like Ruby and that he had threatened her
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 3: badly and that she quit the job after a quarrel
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 3: and fight with Ruby. She said Ruby pushed her against
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 3: the cash register and threatened to throw her down the stairs.
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 3: She stated that he had a bad temper and that
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 3: she had known that on several occasions. He threw people
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 3: bodily out of the club. She said after she left Ruby,
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 3: she worked for T.J. Jeffries as a hostess in his
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 3: nightclub and dining room located outside the Dallas city limits
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 3: for about six weeks. She said she also worked at
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 3: a bar. named the Theater Lounge, and for a short
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 3: time at a bar known as Red's Place. She stated
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 3: that she was forced to quit her job with T.J.
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 3: Jeffries because she'd become ill with kidney stones. Okay. So,
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 3: she was in Massachusetts at the time of the Warren
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 3: Commission in 1964, Rob. You know, we're fast forwarding a
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 3: couple years. But, you know how A lot of witnesses, like,
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 3: for example, the ones in Texas, people working at the TSBD, like, Mr.
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 3: Ball would go down there and, like, talk to all
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 3: of them back to back to back to back to back.
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 3: They flew her from Massachusetts to D.C., which I found interesting.
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 3: And her testimony is long, and it's mostly irrelevant. I
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 3: tried to Pick out some interesting parts of it.
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 6: Pick out some gems.
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, now, when did... Do you want to play
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 3: Miss Rich?
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 6: Sure.
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 3: Why not? Impromptu. Not planned.
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 6: I rarely do females, Joe, but....
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 3: Well.
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 6: Tonight, you all are in for a treat.
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 3: Well, now, when did you first meet Chuck Rubio?
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 6: Well, when I first reached Dallas, I of course went
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 6: directly to the police station. Ironically enough, the first person
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 6: I met was Mr. Tippett.
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 3: What was his first name? Are you referring to the
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 3: Tippett who was shot on November 22nd?
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 6: I would say so. I believe it's the only Tippett
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 6: on the police force.
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 3: Wrong. But, alright, so you met Mr. Tippett, and what
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 3: happened then?
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 6: I walked in and I plunked $ 4 on his desk
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 6: and said, here I am, motherfucker.
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 3: Well.
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 6: It was a joke. When I called him from Massachusetts,
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 6: I told him when I hit there, I would have
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 6: four bucks in my pocket. It was rather a kind
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 6: of joke, actually. So I said, here I am. He said, oh, no,
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 6: I told you not to do it.
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 3: Again, I can't see J.D. doing that, but... How long
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 3: were you employed by Ruby altogether?
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 6: Probably a couple of months.
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 3: Did you work with Ruby after your husband joined you?
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 6: Yes, I did.
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 3: Did you work until you left Dallas?
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 6: No, I did not.
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 3: How long before leaving Dallas did you quit the job
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 3: at Ruby's?
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 6: Possibly a couple months, three months. I wasn't in Dallas
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 6: more than maybe five months, four months at the most,
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 6: four or five months at the most.
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 3: Now, when you say bartender, what do you mean? What
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 3: were your actual duties?
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 6: I was actually a bartender. What are you trying to say?
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 6: You trying to say I'm a whore? I work behind
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 6: the bar mixing and serving drinks. That's it. A bartender.
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 6: That's it.
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 3: What sort of drinks?
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 6: Whatever was allowed. Actually, you're not allowed to serve mixed
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 6: drinks there. We do special customers, though. You're not allowed
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 6: to serve hard liquor. But I serve beer, wine, of course,
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 6: your set-ups.
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 3: What customers did you serve hard liquor to?
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 6: Whoever I was told to, sir.
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 3: And you don't know their names?
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 2: Nope.
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 3: And again, this is a long interview, so I'm copying
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 3: and pasting here. Well, how many others do you suppose
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 3: you served?
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 6: I couldn't estimate. I couldn't give you a true and
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 6: accurate figure. Anyone that came in from the police department,
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 6: including certain attorneys in town. One attorney I particularly remember
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 6: was a fellow by the name of Cy Victerson, who
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 6: subsequently became my attorney and a close personal friend, if
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 6: you know what I'm saying.
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 3: And what?
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 6: A personal friend. Wink, wink.
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 3: What was your salary there?
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 6: I don't know. 50, 60 bucks a week, I guess.
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 3: Did you have any tips?
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 6: Eh, sometimes.
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 3: Do you remember a man by the name of Andy
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 3: Armstrong or Andrew Armstrong?
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 6: Eh, the name Armstrong doesn't really ring a bell. I
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 6: guess if my memory serves me correctly, wasn't he the
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 6: colored man that cleaned up around there?
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 3: Yes, he was. Do you have any difficulty with Ruby?
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 6: Eh, except the fact that I was about ready to
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 6: throw a cash register on his fucking head, no.
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 3: What was that?
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 6: Oh, sorry. I shouldn't have said that. I'm very ladylike here.
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 6: I said except for the fact that I was ready
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 6: one night to throw a cash register on his head.
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 6: I don't like to be pushed around.
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 3: Are you suggesting that he did push you around?
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 6: I'm suggesting he threw me up against the bar and
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 6: put a bruise on my fucking arm. And only because
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 6: Bud King and one of the dancers there pulled me
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 6: off of him, I was going to kill him.
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 3: What was the argument about?
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 6: Ah, the bar glasses were not clean enough to suit him.
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 6: And I wasn't pushing drinks to the customers fast enough.
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 3: And so he... What is that? Remonstrated with you?
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 6: Yeah, whatever that word means, he did that to me.
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 3: And that included pushing you around.
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 6: Yes, that is correct. And I was refused the privilege
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 6: of bringing an assault and battery charge against him.
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 3: Who refused you that?
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 6: Why, the Dallas Police Department, of course. I went down
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 6: for information. It was going to Mr. Douglas. I believe
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 6: he was some attorney. I think he was with the
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 6: DA's office. I don't remember his position. I can't remember
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 6: his last name. I wanted to file a suit against Ruby.
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 6: And they said no. I was refused. I was told
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 6: that if I did, I would never win it and
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 6: get myself in more trouble than I had bargained for. Hmm.
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 3: That was told to you by whom?
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 6: By the Dallas Police Department, man.
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 3: And by what individual of the DPD?
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 6: Again, and I wish to God I could. I can't
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 6: remember his fucking name.
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 3: Meanwhile, let us pass on to another point. I think
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 3: you have mentioned that you saw Ruby at a certain
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 3: meeting at which her husband was present and there was
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 3: a general discussion of guns or Cuban refugees.
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 6: Well, your statement is partially correct.
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 3: Well, will you tell us what is actually correct?
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 6: At the first meeting, there were four people present. There
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 6: was a colonel, or a light colonel, I forgot which.
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 6: I also forget whether he was in the Air Force
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 6: or the Army. It seems to me like it was
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 6: the Army. I don't know. And it seems to me
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 6: he was regular Army. There was my husband, Mr. Perrin, myself,
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 6: and a fellow named Dave. Hmm.
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 2: Hmm.
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 6: And I don't remember his last name. Dave C., I
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 6: think it was. Cole, maybe, but I wasn't to be sure.
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 6: Dave came to my husband with a proposition.
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 3: So there were only four people present.
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 6: Let me clarify something. A statement about Dave. He was
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 6: a bartender from the University Club on Commerce Street. I
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 6: became associated with him and subsequently started my husband. Well,
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 6: At first, it looked all right to me. They wanted
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 6: someone to pilot a boat, someone that knew Cuba. And
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 6: my husband claimed he did. Whether he did or not,
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 6: I don't know. I know he did know boats. So
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 6: they were going to bring Cuban refugees out and into Miami.
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 6: All this was fine. Because by that time, everyone knew
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 6: Castro for what he appears to be, shall we say.
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 6: So I said, sure, why not $.
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 2: 10, 000?
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 6: I said, that is fine.
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 3: Some question, question, question, question. I cut it off. so
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 3: you can start.
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 6: We went in our own car, but with Dave with us,
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 6: and at that time, Dave and my husband and I
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 6: were in the car.
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 3: All right, so tell us what happened.
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 6: Well, we got there, and at that time, there was
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 6: the colonel, another middle-aged broad, kind of a real old
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 6: granite-faced bitch. I would describe her with steel gray hair,
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 6: looked rather mannish. And there was a rather... Do you
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 6: know her name?
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 2: Nah.
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 6: I was introduced. Names were mentioned around. I don't recall it.
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 6: And then there was another rather pugnacious looking fella who
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 6: looked as though he might have been an ex-prize fighter
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 6: or something.
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 3: Were you introduced to him?
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 6: I was introduced to everyone, baby.
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 3: Well, who else was there?
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 6: The colonel, the woman, the prize fighter type, a couple
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 6: of other men that just kind of sat off in
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 6: the corner looking stupid, and one of them looked rather dark,
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 6: like he might have been a Cuban or a Latin,
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 6: and Dave, my husband, and myself.
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 3: Tell us what happened at that meeting, if you will, man.
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 6: Well, apparently, from what I could discern, they had some
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 6: kind of a hitch in their plan. And at that time,
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 6: I point-blank spoke up, and I said... Well, suppose we
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 6: discuss the plans in full before we, meaning my husband
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 6: and myself, get into this. I would like to know
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 6: what we're getting ourselves into here. And at this point,
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 6: you know, by now I certainly have a say in
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 6: this matter. Then it came out, boom, quite blank. We
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 6: were going to bring Cuban refugees out, but we were
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 6: going to run military supplies and rifles in.
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 3: Who made that statement?
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 6: I believe it was the Latin-looking fellow that first made
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 6: the statement, but the colonel clarified it. The colonel seemed
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 6: to be the head of it and seemed to do
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 6: all the talking.
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 3: He was in uniform?
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 6: Yeah, he was.
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 3: And they go on a bunch about his uniform.
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 6: Like a skafooza.
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right.
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 3: And you came to the conclusion then that Vito Genovese,
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 3: I'm skipping here, and that group of people were involved
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 3: in this matter?
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 6: Within my own mind, yes, I thought that I got
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 6: thinking perhaps the higher-up that the colonel spoke of was
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 6: perhaps the element I did not want to deal with
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 6: that was running the guns in, and God knows what else.
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 3: Why didn't you report it to the authorities in an
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 3: interval between the third meeting and the time you left Dallas?
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 6: For the simple reason that I was hesitant about mentioning
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 6: anything about my husband's past. I did not know how
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 6: much of what my husband had told me was true.
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 6: I did not know how much of it he knew
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 6: before I knew it, or how deeply he was involved
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 6: in anything. And quite frankly, if my husband was still alive,
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 6: I never would have gone to the FBI.
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 3: But you already told us at the end of the
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 3: second meeting you had decided to tell the authorities.
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 6: Not when I see that element there.
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 3: But that element does not affect.
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 6: That element, sir, if what my husband had told me
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 6: was true, could have involved him a lot deeper than
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 6: I suspected. Now, quite frankly, I am not stupid enough,
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 6: shall we say, to believe that if I ever went
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 6: to the authorities, and that element was involved, that I
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 6: would ever live to tell a second story. And if
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 6: my suppositions were true, as to who the man's identity
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 6: really is, a combination of fear for myself and protecting
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 6: my husband, and at that time I thought, I suppose
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 6: many citizens do, well... Let the next fella do it.
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 6: They'll catch them eventually. And I chose to close my eyes.
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 3: Well, I assume that you would know all the records
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 3: you have.
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 6: Well, when I say that, I was picked up twice
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 6: in Dallas, and both times the charges were dropped, as
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 6: far as I know. That is what old Cy Victuson
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 6: told me.
• 1:42:26
  Speaker 3: Were you ever charged?
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 6: Not that I know of.
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 3: Were you ever booked?
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 6: I don't believe so.
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 3: But you were arrested.
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 6: One time I was in jail for a couple hours.
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 6: The other time, five hours, because they couldn't get a
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 6: hold of Cy, who was playing fucking golf.
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 3: Were you told why you were being arrested?
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 6: I was arrested for investigation of vaginas and narcotics.
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 3: Vigrancy, I believe, but works just as well. Of what?
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 6: Vag. I mean, vagrancy. Narcotics, prostitution, anything else they could
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 6: dream up. This is very shortly after I had threatened
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 6: to go and bring suits against Mr.
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 5: Ruby.
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 6: I was told I might find the climate outside of
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 6: Dallas a little more to my liking if I didn't
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 6: take the advice of the police department.
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 3: Who told you that?
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 6: The time I went down and wanted to bring charges
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 6: against Mr. Ruby for assault and battery, I was told
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 6: not to. And at that time, I was also advised...
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 6: that I was told not to leave the city or
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 6: anything like that, but that it was nice in Chicago,
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 6: for instance, this time of year.
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 3: And I think you said that you did not remember
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 3: the name of the man.
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 6: I cannot remember the name of the detective that I
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 6: spoke to, no.
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 3: But he was the detective on the police force.
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 6: He was. Jack Ruby is very well known in Dallas.
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 6: A little too well known, if you know what I'm saying. Mm-hmm.
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 3: Anyone that made that statement would either be a damn
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 3: liar or a damn fool. Oh, I'm sorry. That's you.
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 1: Why?
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 6: There is no possible way that Jack Ruby could walk
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 6: in Dallas and be mistaken for a newspaper reporter. Well, actually,
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 6: unless he looks exactly like a fucking newspaper reporter, uh,
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 6: as Rob Clark. So, uh, blatantly pointed out in the
• 1:44:25
  Speaker 6: show with Paul Abbott, uh, Especially in the police department.
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 6: Not by any stretch of the imagination.
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 3: Is that your opinion?
• 1:44:35
  Speaker 6: That is not my personal opinion. That is a fucking fact, Jack.
• 1:44:41
  Speaker 3: Well, on what do you base it?
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 6: Ye gods, man. I don't think there's a cop in
• 1:44:47
  Speaker 6: Dallas that doesn't know Jack Ruby. He practically lived at
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 6: that station. They lived at his place. Even the lowest
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 6: patrolman on the beat. He is a real fanatic on
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 6: that anyway.
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 3: When you say even the lowest patrolman on the beat,
• 1:45:03
  Speaker 3: what do you mean?
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 6: Everybody from the patrolman on the beat in uniform to,
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 6: I guess, everybody with the exception of Captain fucking Fritz
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 6: used to come in there. I knew him personally. He
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 6: used to practically live there at the station. Now, I'm
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 6: not saying that Fritz didn't know him. I'm saying that
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 6: he was never seen in the carousel. He has always been,
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 6: I think, a little too far above things for that.
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 3: Well, have you seen other high-ranking officers there?
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 6: Yes, I have.
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 3: Would you name them, please?
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 6: I would if I could. I would only be glad
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 6: to glad to.
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 3: You mean you don't know?
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 6: I cannot recall names, sir.
• 1:45:47
  Speaker 3: All right. So that was fun. Thank you.
• 1:45:50
  Speaker 6: Thank you. Thank you.
• 1:45:51
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 3: But you can kind of see her, I don't know
• 1:46:02
  Speaker 3: what you would call it, like a situational awareness as
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 3: to not start naming names and possibly get yourself in
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 3: more trouble. But then again.
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 6: She is saying a lot there to the Warren Commission.
• 1:46:20
  Speaker 3: She is. And she says even more if you'd like
• 1:46:22
  Speaker 3: to go look it up and read the whole thing.
• 1:46:27
  Speaker 3: But again, this is a person that And I quote,
• 1:46:34
  Speaker 3: I didn't know a soul in Dallas, but of course
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 3: my first stop would have been the police station. So
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 3: I don't know what's going on with this girl, woman.
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 3: So now we have FBI, Department of Justice Commission Exhibit 1178B,
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 3: I guess.
• 1:46:57
  Speaker 5: Ms.
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 3: Nancy Perrin-Rich. by letter dated June 8th, 64, General Counsel,
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 3: President's Commission, uh, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. On June 2nd, 64,
• 1:47:08
  Speaker 3: Nancy Perrin, now the wife of Francis L. Rich, whom
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 3: she married on April 64, was deposed by a member
• 1:47:16
  Speaker 3: of the commission staff. During the course of the testimony, Ms.
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 3: Nancy Perrin Rich produced the following document, dated October 25th, 1963. Uh,
• 1:47:30
  Speaker 3: To whom it may concern, commencing July 12, 1963, and
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 3: subsequent thereto, this office had occasion to use the services
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 3: of Nancy Perrin in the matter of investigating and prosecuting
• 1:47:44
  Speaker 3: an abortion case. Nancy Perrin gave the utmost cooperation to
• 1:47:50
  Speaker 3: this office and the Oakland Police Department, so we're talking
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 3: about California now, in the processing of this case and
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 3: was very instrumental in bringing the matter to a successful conclusion. Again, Rob,
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 3: this is what kind of leads me to think she
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 3: was some type of informant.
• 1:48:12
  Speaker 6: Well, yeah, and this seems like one of those bona
• 1:48:16
  Speaker 6: fides letters that she would carry with her to New
• 1:48:20
  Speaker 6: police departments and saying look at all the good work
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 6: that i did out in sacramento for the chief deputy
• 1:48:28
  Speaker 6: district attorney i mean they're giving her a glowing review
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 6: uh She has the qualifications and desire to be a
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 6: success in the investigative field wherever her services can be used. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 3: And what does that remind you of? Someone, someone using,
• 1:48:50
  Speaker 3: trying to use some documents to prove their bona fides.
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 6: To Fidel Castro.
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 6: Allegedly.
• 1:48:58
  Speaker 3: Yes. Um, The above letter was prepared on letterhead stationery
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 3: of the DA, Sacramento County, Sacramento, California, courthouse. In order
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 3: to assist Perrin in obtaining this job, Lieutenant Parker arranged
• 1:49:23
  Speaker 3: for her to be issued an identification card bearing the
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 3: name Julie Ann Cody. This is one of her aliases. Mm-hmm.
• 1:49:31
  Speaker 3: addressed Haywood, California. This card also includes the identification number, blah, blah, blah,
• 1:49:37
  Speaker 3: and the date of issue is February 3rd, 1962. So again,
• 1:49:42
  Speaker 3: she was in Dallas, 1961, right? So we're now in 62.
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 3: Lieutenant Parker stated that Perrin was given this card after
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 3: which she obtained employment as a cocktail waitress at the bandstand.
• 1:49:56
  Speaker 3: The owner of this establishment terminated her employment in approximately
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 3: two weeks after Perrin was unable to obtain any information
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 3: of value to the Oakland Police Department during this period
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 3: of employment. You see what I'm saying, Rob?
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.
• 1:50:13
  Speaker 3: She was given approximately $ 7 a night for each night
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 3: she worked at the bandstand and was therefore a paid
• 1:50:20
  Speaker 3: informer of the Oakland Police Department. Lieutenant Parker stated, there
• 1:50:26
  Speaker 3: is no so-called false police record for Perrin in Oakland
• 1:50:32
  Speaker 3: He stated that during the period he had dealings with Nancy,
• 1:50:36
  Speaker 3: he came to the conclusion that she is emotionally unreliable.
• 1:50:40
  Speaker 3: He specifically described her as a screwball and nutty as
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 3: a fruitcake.
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 6: I was going to say, a.k.a. crazy.
• 1:50:48
  Speaker 7: A.F.
• 1:50:50
  Speaker 3: Scott, I'm not looking at the comments, but please make
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 3: your comment, because I know what you're going to say.
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 6: I don't know.
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 3: He advised that Perrin reportedly volunteered her services to a
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 3: number of local law enforcement agencies in the San Francisco-Oakland area.
• 1:51:09
  Speaker 3: She made efforts to reestablish herself as a paid informer
• 1:51:13
  Speaker 3: with the Oakland Police Department following the investigation involving the
• 1:51:16
  Speaker 3: bandstand mentioned above. Lieutenant Parker said that his department has
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 3: had no official dealings with her since that time. Hold on.
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 2: Scott.
• 1:51:30
  Speaker 3: Thank you, kid. I gotta get off the screen for
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 3: a second. This is Scott's. I'm not a crackpot. No. Scott,
• 1:51:48
  Speaker 3: do you remember who we were talking about when, like,
• 1:51:51
  Speaker 3: the first sentence of the letter to some agency or
• 1:51:57
  Speaker 3: department was I'm not a crackpot because I don't remember
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 3: exactly who it was. It was a long time ago.
• 1:52:05
  Speaker 6: It's hard to tell.
• 1:52:07
  Speaker 3: But when you start a message like that, chances are
• 1:52:15
  Speaker 3: you're a crackpot and you're crazy.
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 6: I've got a hell of a story for you.
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 1:52:20
  Speaker 3: There's your lamp, Scott. Thank you. All right. Only a
• 1:52:26
  Speaker 3: couple more here. And then we're going to June 64,
• 1:52:31
  Speaker 3: President's Commission letter to Director Jagahova.
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 6: Hi, Ruby.
• 1:52:42
  Speaker 3: The dog. Requested specific information regarding Nancy Perrin for the
• 1:52:48
  Speaker 3: purpose of evaluating her deposition furnished to the President's Commission
• 1:52:53
  Speaker 3: on June 24. Second, 1964. This letter in part reads
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 3: as follows. During the course of her testimony, Ms. Rich
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 3: testified that some individual was deliberately following her on Thursday,
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 3: May 28, 1964. So this is a couple days before
• 1:53:12
  Speaker 3: her testimony. From her home in Hanover, Massachusetts to North Attleboro, Massachusetts,
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 3: she stated she notified the police department of Mansfield, Massachusetts
• 1:53:23
  Speaker 3: of this fact, and they have a record of either
• 1:53:25
  Speaker 3: an arrest or questioning of the individual who allegedly followed Mrs.
• 1:53:30
  Speaker 2: Rich.
• 1:53:31
  Speaker 3: The commission desires to know whether the police department or
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 3: Mansfield have any record of this alleged matter. So she
• 1:53:41
  Speaker 3: thinks she's being stalked before she goes to the Warren Commission,
• 1:53:45
  Speaker 3: is essentially that. And then, I think this is the
• 1:53:51
  Speaker 3: same day. Yeah, same day. FBI patrolman John B. Lingley, Hanover, Massachusetts,
• 1:54:01
  Speaker 3: advised that at 10.48 p.m. he was detailed to River
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 3: Street in Hanover where he talked to Mrs. Francis.
• 1:54:11
  Speaker 2: Ms.
• 1:54:11
  Speaker 3: Rich complained that she had just received a telephone call
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 3: from an unknown individual who said, we're going to get you,
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 3: and then hung up. She was unable to identify the
• 1:54:23
  Speaker 3: voice and further was unable to state whether it was
• 1:54:27
  Speaker 3: a male or female voice. That's kind of a problem.
• 1:54:31
  Speaker 3: She also advised, unless you're Rob and you do voices,
• 1:54:35
  Speaker 3: she also advised that she had been in receipt of another.
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 6: Well, my female sounds an awful lot like a male, so.
• 1:54:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's okay.
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 6: I can't help it.
• 1:54:44
  Speaker 3: It's okay. She also advised that she had been in
• 1:54:48
  Speaker 3: receipt of other telephone calls and that when she answered
• 1:54:51
  Speaker 3: the phone, a voice on the calling end would laugh
• 1:54:57
  Speaker 3: and then hang up. She told the police officer that
• 1:55:00
  Speaker 3: she suspected these calls were made from her husband's former spouse,
• 1:55:06
  Speaker 3: but she had no information to substantiate her suspicions. And
• 1:55:13
  Speaker 3: that is it. So you can take that down now.
• 1:55:17
  Speaker 3: So what's going on with this lady, man? She knew
• 1:55:22
  Speaker 3: Jack Ruby for the course of two months, maybe, five weeks.
• 1:55:33
  Speaker 3: Then she kind of moved on, but definitely was some
• 1:55:38
  Speaker 3: type of paid informant. Now, whether she was just trying
• 1:55:41
  Speaker 3: to make an extra buck or not, or whether there
• 1:55:46
  Speaker 3: was something more nefarious, whether there was Cuban gun running,
• 1:55:51
  Speaker 3: whatever her husband at the time was into. There's a
• 1:55:55
  Speaker 3: lot of skafoozery going on with this woman here.
• 1:55:59
  Speaker 6: A lot of skafoozery.
• 1:56:05
  Speaker 3: Uh, I don't really know what to make of it.
• 1:56:08
  Speaker 3: I mean, I believe her, uh, in a sense. Um,
• 1:56:16
  Speaker 3: I think a lot of things she says line up
• 1:56:18
  Speaker 3: in terms of Jack's, um, temperament and she probably got
• 1:56:27
  Speaker 3: pissed at him and went to the police office, uh,
• 1:56:30
  Speaker 3: the DPD and they were like, no, like, don't do that. Like,
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 3: that's not gonna happen.
• 1:56:36
  Speaker 6: Yeah, you don't want to do that.
• 1:56:38
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 1:56:39
  Speaker 3: Uh, which would make sense, obviously, uh, considering Jack's connections
• 1:56:43
  Speaker 3: with the DPD. Um, But the whole gun-running Cuban angle
• 1:56:53
  Speaker 3: is interesting to me. It is interesting. I just really
• 1:57:00
  Speaker 3: don't know what to make of it, but I think
• 1:57:02
  Speaker 3: it's definitely a fascinating woman. And yeah, I don't know.
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 6: Well, I got some more interesting connections here, Joseph.
• 1:57:15
  Speaker 3: Oh, you always do. Tickle my fancy.
• 1:57:19
  Speaker 6: All right. After moving to Dallas in 1946, Jack Rubenstein
• 1:57:27
  Speaker 6: changed his name to Jack Ruby, and he and his
• 1:57:30
  Speaker 6: sister Eva opened up the Singapore Club, Joe. Yes. An
• 1:57:35
  Speaker 6: important contact had migrated with Jack and his sister from
• 1:57:40
  Speaker 6: the old West Side Chicago neighborhood. This guy's name... was
• 1:57:47
  Speaker 6: Paul Roland Jones, a known member of the Capone Syndicate.
• 1:57:55
  Speaker 6: So he moved to Dallas with Eva and Jack. And
• 1:58:01
  Speaker 6: then he was sent to Lansing with a life sentence
• 1:58:04
  Speaker 6: for murder. I'm sorry, he had been in prison for
• 1:58:11
  Speaker 6: murder and received a pardon in 1946 and was directed
• 1:58:15
  Speaker 6: to move to Dallas and pose as a local sportsman.
• 1:58:19
  Speaker 6: His true purpose was to take over the gambling network,
• 1:58:21
  Speaker 6: the slot machines, and the numbers racket. Nick DeJohn and
• 1:58:25
  Speaker 6: Pat Mano helped Jones establish all important contacts with Dallas
• 1:58:30
  Speaker 6: boss Joe Piranio, and liquor distributor, a guy by the
• 1:58:38
  Speaker 6: name of Abe Sheps. Maybe you've heard of him.
• 1:58:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, didn't we talk about him, like, last week? Sheps?
• 1:58:46
  Speaker 6: We did. Yeah, you kept saying Shweps.
• 1:58:48
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:58:50
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:58:50
  Speaker 7: Sheps.
• 1:58:52
  Speaker 6: Yeah, we did in the Honest Joe show.
• 1:58:54
  Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
• 1:58:57
  Speaker 6: He was the guy who allegedly charged Jack Ruby $ 10, 000
• 1:58:59
  Speaker 6: to make that sign for him. But, you know the
• 1:59:04
  Speaker 6: Carousel Club sign?
• 1:59:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that was horrible.
• 1:59:08
  Speaker 6: Yeah, but he was also supplying all the liquor in
• 1:59:12
  Speaker 6: the Carousel Club as well.
• 1:59:15
  Speaker 3: Right, and I think, I believe, if my memory serves correct,
• 1:59:18
  Speaker 3: which it usually doesn't, you speculated that it as we
• 1:59:24
  Speaker 3: looked at the sign, that that could have been a
• 1:59:26
  Speaker 3: payoff for something else.
• 1:59:28
  Speaker 6: Correct. As soon as Jones had been set up in
• 1:59:33
  Speaker 6: Dallas in 1946, he and Ruby were involved in a
• 1:59:36
  Speaker 6: bribery attempt on then-Sheriff-elect Steve Guthrie. The outgoing Sheriff, Smoot Schmidt,
• 1:59:44
  Speaker 6: and his undersheriff, a guy by the name of Bill Decker,
• 1:59:49
  Speaker 6: had for years been corruptible, meaning you could pay him off,
• 1:59:54
  Speaker 6: They would take a bribe. And Jones and Decker were
• 1:59:58
  Speaker 6: hopeful that Guthrie could be enlisted for a small fee.
• 2:00:04
  Speaker 6: So Ruby and Jones asked Dallas police detective, maybe you've
• 2:00:08
  Speaker 6: heard of him, George Butler, to arrange a meeting with
• 2:00:12
  Speaker 6: new sheriff Butler, with the new sheriff. Butler then asked
• 2:00:16
  Speaker 6: Guthrie to help him with an investigation of the attempted bribery.
• 2:00:20
  Speaker 6: The FBI was brought in to secretly record the meeting
• 2:00:23
  Speaker 6: on November 7th, 1946. The FBI tapes were made available
• 2:00:30
  Speaker 6: to the HSCA, but they were of poor quality and
• 2:00:35
  Speaker 6: could not be fully transcribed. But Chicago mobsters Paul Roland Jones,
• 2:00:40
  Speaker 6: Pat Mano, Sheriff Guthrie, and Detective George Butler of the
• 2:00:45
  Speaker 6: DVD all attended the meeting together. And Jones was heard
• 2:00:48
  Speaker 6: to say on the recording that Bill Decker and D.A.
• 2:00:51
  Speaker 6: Dean Golden had welcomed his arrival in Dallas and promised
• 2:00:55
  Speaker 6: every cooperation. Guthrie said, we all know that Bill Decker
• 2:01:00
  Speaker 6: is the payoff man. According to subsequent FBI interviews with
• 2:01:04
  Speaker 6: Guthrie and Butler, Jones proposed to set up a nice
• 2:01:07
  Speaker 6: restaurant slash club that would be a front operation for
• 2:01:11
  Speaker 6: illegal gambling and Jack Ruby would manage the operation. This
• 2:01:15
  Speaker 6: is all on tape. FBI tape. Ruby, who was not
• 2:01:20
  Speaker 6: present at the recorded meeting, though, avoided prosecution, but Jones
• 2:01:23
  Speaker 6: did not. So, you have Jack Ruby being pretty much
• 2:01:31
  Speaker 6: outed on FBI surveillance tape by Bill Decker, George Butler
• 2:01:39
  Speaker 6: of the DPD, incoming sheriff Steve Guthrie, and how they're
• 2:01:44
  Speaker 6: all colluding together to do some shady shit in Dallas.
• 2:01:50
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:01:51
  Speaker 6: How they're all gonna make this, Joe.
• 2:01:53
  Speaker 3: Yep.
• 2:01:56
  Speaker 6: So, they brought bribery and racketeering charges against Jones and Butler,
• 2:02:01
  Speaker 6: not Decker or Guthrie. The FBI continued their investigation and
• 2:02:07
  Speaker 6: on October 21st, 1947, Detective George Butler interviewed Homer Raymond Padgett,
• 2:02:14
  Speaker 6: the former manager of Jack's Singapore Club, He related to
• 2:02:18
  Speaker 6: Butler that he was eavesdropping on a table conversation between
• 2:02:21
  Speaker 6: Paul Jones, Eva Grant, Jack Ruby, Abe Sheps, and two
• 2:02:26
  Speaker 6: other people. The conversation topic was the Chicago Syndicate involvement
• 2:02:32
  Speaker 6: in illegal activities in Dallas. Realizing that the coup was
• 2:02:36
  Speaker 6: being overheard, one of the men jumped up from a
• 2:02:38
  Speaker 6: chair and beat the shit out of the eavesdropper, who was,
• 2:02:43
  Speaker 6: of course, Homer Padgett, the manager of the club. Uh,
• 2:02:49
  Speaker 6: that's a problem. The man then held Padgett while Jack
• 2:02:52
  Speaker 6: worked him over with a blackjack and pounded on his nuts.
• 2:02:59
  Speaker 6: Three days later, on October 24th, Jones was arrested in Laredo,
• 2:03:03
  Speaker 6: Texas by a federal Bureau of Narcotics agents as he
• 2:03:06
  Speaker 6: brought a shipment of heroin in from Mexico. Ruby was
• 2:03:09
  Speaker 6: interviewed by the FBI in reference to the investigation several
• 2:03:12
  Speaker 6: days later, but managed to avoid charges. In 1950, Eva
• 2:03:19
  Speaker 6: Grant moved from Dallas to California, and Jack took over
• 2:03:25
  Speaker 6: main interest in the Singapore Club himself, and the name
• 2:03:29
  Speaker 6: was changed to the Silver Spur. And we saw this
• 2:03:35
  Speaker 6: on Wednesday night's Members Only show. I showed you guys
• 2:03:40
  Speaker 6: where it is now and where it was then and
• 2:03:44
  Speaker 6: kind of what it looks like or looked like. Ruby's
• 2:03:51
  Speaker 6: criminal interest expanded during the next several years to vice
• 2:03:55
  Speaker 6: and pornographic venues. And in 1953, he became a business
• 2:04:00
  Speaker 6: partner with Joe Bonds, another old friend from Chicago. They
• 2:04:04
  Speaker 6: obtained permission from La Cosa Nostra Dallas boss Joe Piranio
• 2:04:09
  Speaker 6: to open up a strip joint called the Vegas Club.
• 2:04:13
  Speaker 6: The relationship between the two old friends became mutually hostile
• 2:04:17
  Speaker 6: and Ruby was observed by club patrons to have on
• 2:04:19
  Speaker 6: one occasion chased his partner out of the club with
• 2:04:22
  Speaker 6: a pistol. In 1954, Bonds was convicted of white slavery
• 2:04:28
  Speaker 6: and sodomy. That's early talk for trafficking women and doing
• 2:04:39
  Speaker 6: whatever you wanted with them. White slavery. What are you
• 2:04:43
  Speaker 6: in for? Don't even ask. Jack retained ownership of the
• 2:04:50
  Speaker 6: Vegas Club until 1963. At the same time the partnership
• 2:04:54
  Speaker 6: had commenced with the Vegas Club, Ruby had taken over
• 2:04:56
  Speaker 6: the notorious downtown pornhouse, the Irvay Theater, which is right
• 2:05:01
  Speaker 6: next to the Silver Spur. All right. Violence continued as
• 2:05:11
  Speaker 6: a lifestyle for many of Capone's Westside errand boys. From
• 2:05:16
  Speaker 6: the Kit Howard Gymnasium where Jack Ruby used to box
• 2:05:19
  Speaker 6: as a ute. Right?
• 2:05:21
  Speaker 3: A ute.
• 2:05:22
  Speaker 6: As a ute. In November 1955, an FBI memorandum reports
• 2:05:28
  Speaker 6: that Leonard Lenny Patrick, one of Jack Ruby's friends, along
• 2:05:35
  Speaker 6: with Charles Chucky the typewriter Nicoletti. What a nickname. Chucky
• 2:05:40
  Speaker 6: the typewriter. What the fuck, man?
• 2:05:46
  Speaker 3: You have that, what's that girl in the news that's
• 2:05:52
  Speaker 3: like Trump's Kumar? She's called the, what is it, the
• 2:05:57
  Speaker 3: human printer? Or the Natalie Harp? The person that goes
• 2:06:02
  Speaker 3: around and prints stuff and shows tweets to Trump that
• 2:06:06
  Speaker 3: he's alleged having an affair with? I don't know. That's
• 2:06:11
  Speaker 3: big in the news.
• 2:06:16
  Speaker 6: Uh, in 1955, Jack had part of his index finger
• 2:06:21
  Speaker 6: bitten off in a fight in the Vegas club. Uh,
• 2:06:26
  Speaker 6: as a result of getting his finger bitten off, he
• 2:06:28
  Speaker 6: beat the other man into unconsciousness with a pair of
• 2:06:31
  Speaker 6: brass knuckles.
• 2:06:32
  Speaker 8: Wow.
• 2:06:36
  Speaker 6: Uh, that's why they called him Pinky.
• 2:06:40
  Speaker 3: Oh, okay.
• 2:06:42
  Speaker 6: Allegedly. Uh, From 1950 to 1963, there were 15 documented
• 2:06:53
  Speaker 6: occasions when Ruby assaulted patrons in his club with a
• 2:06:56
  Speaker 6: pistol or a blackjack. That's a lot. Despite his great
• 2:07:06
  Speaker 6: capacity for violence, he was only arrested eight times in
• 2:07:11
  Speaker 6: 13 years on a variety of charges ranging from disturbing
• 2:07:14
  Speaker 6: the peace... and carrying a concealed weapon to assault and battery.
• 2:07:18
  Speaker 6: During this period, Joe, the most severe penalty that he
• 2:07:21
  Speaker 6: ever got for any of his arrests was a $ 35 fine.
• 2:07:27
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 2:07:27
  Speaker 6: No jail time. No community service.
• 2:07:36
  Speaker 3: No wonder why he got.
• 2:07:37
  Speaker 6: No parole.
• 2:07:39
  Speaker 3: Free drinks to everyone.
• 2:07:41
  Speaker 2: And.
• 2:07:43
  Speaker 3: Eula Kadula said, Chucky the typewriter Charles Nicoletti was known
• 2:07:48
  Speaker 3: for the sound of his machine gun. That makes sense.
• 2:07:52
  Speaker 6: .
• 2:07:55
  Speaker 3: .
• 2:07:59
  Speaker 6: with stuff. Including his pinky. Louis McWillie, Joe,
• 2:08:18
  Speaker 6: was another important friend and associate of Jack Ruby, but
• 2:08:21
  Speaker 6: he was never called to give testimony to the Warren Commission.
• 2:08:24
  Speaker 6: Although more than just a gambler, McWillie arranged high-stake card
• 2:08:27
  Speaker 6: games at the Petroleum Club and the Highland Park Country Club,
• 2:08:32
  Speaker 6: as well as other prestigious private venues. His patrons included
• 2:08:38
  Speaker 6: such notable names as Clint Murchison, Sid Richardson, and H.L. Hunt.
• 2:08:44
  Speaker 6: Maybe you've heard of these Giant oil magnates.
• 2:08:47
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 2:08:48
  Speaker 6: Big money, big gambling. Louis McWillie, swinging dick. In 54
• 2:08:57
  Speaker 6: and 55, McWillie enlisted the help of liquor magnate Abe
• 2:09:00
  Speaker 6: Sheps to get curfew restrictions lifted at Jack's Vegas Club
• 2:09:08
  Speaker 6: with his contacts, in the DA's office and with the
• 2:09:13
  Speaker 6: DPD and the Sheriff's Department. McWillie's high-profile patrons earned him
• 2:09:19
  Speaker 6: the reputation of being a money manager, and in 1958
• 2:09:23
  Speaker 6: he became the manager of the Tropicana in Havana, Cuba.
• 2:09:27
  Speaker 6: His employers were Pedro and Martin Fox, members of the
• 2:09:31
  Speaker 6: Tampa La Costa Nostra. They were also involved in narcotics
• 2:09:36
  Speaker 6: as well as gambling. And they answered to one man
• 2:09:39
  Speaker 6: named Santo Traficante Jr. And likely McWillie knew R.D. Matthews
• 2:09:47
  Speaker 6: very well.
• 2:09:55
  Speaker 3: And by the way, Sally, I don't, do you know
• 2:09:58
  Speaker 3: what is a blackjack? And if you don't know, if anyone.
• 2:10:01
  Speaker 6: In the chat does, uh, What is a blackjack? It
• 2:10:07
  Speaker 6: is like a sand-filled leather bag that you just beat
• 2:10:14
  Speaker 6: the shit out of somebody with. Basically. It's a weighted, like, leather-bound...
• 2:10:22
  Speaker 6: Like a... I don't know. Alright. Or it's like a stick.
• 2:10:29
  Speaker 6: Like a nightstick.
• 2:10:30
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 2:10:31
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 2:10:33
  Speaker 6: It could be either thing. when they talked to Burt
• 2:10:40
  Speaker 6: Griffin from the Warren Commission during the HSCA, Burt Griffin
• 2:10:45
  Speaker 6: asked Blakey if he had adequately explored the relationship between
• 2:10:49
  Speaker 6: Ruby and McWillie and possible connections to organized crime figures,
• 2:10:53
  Speaker 6: and Judge Griffin says, if we were conducting an investigation
• 2:10:57
  Speaker 6: into whether there could have been a conspiracy to assassinate
• 2:11:00
  Speaker 6: the president that involved the mafia, my answer would be
• 2:11:03
  Speaker 6: that this was not an adequate investigation that they did
• 2:11:10
  Speaker 6: back then. So you have warrant commission, uh, member Bert
• 2:11:17
  Speaker 6: Griffin saying that they didn't do a very good job
• 2:11:20
  Speaker 6: following the mafia angles. All right. But, uh, dude, there,
• 2:11:28
  Speaker 6: there is so much more that all these guys are
• 2:11:31
  Speaker 6: just mixed up in. We'll get more into it on, uh,
• 2:11:37
  Speaker 6: Members only.
• 2:11:38
  Speaker 3: But they're very intertwined, right?
• 2:11:41
  Speaker 6: They are very intertwined. Very, very much so.
• 2:11:45
  Speaker 3: And, you know, like you said, or one of us said,
• 2:11:49
  Speaker 3: it all comes down to the bottom line, right? You know,
• 2:11:52
  Speaker 3: a lot of these police officers, commissioners, DAs were corrupt.
• 2:12:00
  Speaker 3: And the mafia had a lot more power than, say,
• 2:12:04
  Speaker 3: it does in 2026, right? back then so you have
• 2:12:09
  Speaker 3: to take that into in context and I think when
• 2:12:16
  Speaker 3: you go back to Mrs. Nancy Perrin Rich she kind
• 2:12:21
  Speaker 3: of got involved in that and then kind of said
• 2:12:23
  Speaker 3: this is even too much for me.
• 2:12:27
  Speaker 6: Type of thing yeah she got a taste of it
• 2:12:30
  Speaker 6: she definitely did but like I said we'll get more
• 2:12:33
  Speaker 6: into this and more Next week for part two on
• 2:12:37
  Speaker 6: members only. Again, if you are not a member yet
• 2:12:40
  Speaker 6: and you would like to try it out, I believe
• 2:12:42
  Speaker 6: there's a free trial. So feel free to sign up
• 2:12:46
  Speaker 6: for it. Just hit the join button. And, yeah, if
• 2:12:51
  Speaker 6: you like it, check it out. Become a member. We
• 2:12:54
  Speaker 6: don't mail it in on Wednesday nights for members. We
• 2:12:56
  Speaker 6: do a full-fledged show just like this one for channel
• 2:12:59
  Speaker 6: members that support us and love us. And trust me,
• 2:13:02
  Speaker 6: they are bangers. They are. We can do so much
• 2:13:06
  Speaker 6: more on a members-only show that we cannot do here.
• 2:13:09
  Speaker 3: And we do a lot here.
• 2:13:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:13:14
  Speaker 6: Sometimes we do the show naked on Wednesday nights. Just
• 2:13:17
  Speaker 6: ask the members.
• 2:13:18
  Speaker 3: Allegedly.
• 2:13:19
  Speaker 6: Allegedly. Ruby does the show naked every night.
• 2:13:24
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 2:13:25
  Speaker 6: Yes, she does. So grab her naked ass.
• 2:13:29
  Speaker 3: I have her.
• 2:13:31
  Speaker 6: There she is, by golly. Folks, thank you so much
• 2:13:37
  Speaker 6: for joining us. We hope you enjoyed the show. And
• 2:13:42
  Speaker 6: we hope we'll see you next week. Members only. If not,
• 2:13:44
  Speaker 6: we'll see you next Friday. In the meantime, there will
• 2:13:47
  Speaker 6: be some skafoozery, like book reviews and a rambling that
• 2:13:53
  Speaker 6: you are not going to want to miss this weekend because,
• 2:13:56
  Speaker 6: trust me, you're not going to want to miss it.
• 2:14:00
  Speaker 6: Let's just say, oh boy. It has something to do
• 2:14:03
  Speaker 6: with nothing burgers. And the guy that makes them. That's
• 2:14:08
  Speaker 6: all I'll say right now.
• 2:14:13
  Speaker 3: I don't know what it is.
• 2:14:15
  Speaker 6: Joe has no idea.
• 2:14:17
  Speaker 3: I have no idea.
• 2:14:18
  Speaker 6: But trust me.
• 2:14:19
  Speaker 3: Plausible deniability. Plausible deniability.
• 2:14:23
  Speaker 6: And Big Bad Bob will be on full display for
• 2:14:27
  Speaker 6: the rambling. Because he has something to say. And somebody
• 2:14:32
  Speaker 6: else that ain't going to like it. But we'll get
• 2:14:35
  Speaker 6: there this weekend. So stay tuned for that. Thanks for
• 2:14:38
  Speaker 6: hanging out with us. We hope you enjoyed the show.
• 2:14:40
  Speaker 6: We love you guys. And we'll see you next time
• 2:14:42
  Speaker 6: here on the Lone Gummin' Podcast. Ain't that right, Ruby?
• 2:14:49
  Speaker 3: That is right, Robbie.
• 2:14:52
  Speaker 6: Bye, everybody.
• 2:14:53
  Speaker 2: Bye, Ruby.
• 2:14:54
  Speaker 3: Ruby wishes everyone a good weekend.
• 2:14:57
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 2:14:57
  Speaker 6: Don't do anything I wouldn't do.
• 2:14:59
  Speaker 3: Or Jack wouldn't do.
• 2:15:02
  Speaker 6: Or jack off. Have a great weekend, everybody.
• 2:15:05
  Speaker 5: Peace.
• 2:15:05
  Speaker 2: Peace.