Latest / We Are More: Sisters Talk Faith & Feminism / Ep. 28: Sit Down, Martha!

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Ep. 28: Sit Down, Martha! · We Are More: Sisters Talk Faith & Feminism

0:00
Welcome to the We Are More podcast.
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My name is Alyssa.
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And my name is Bri.
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We are two sisters passionate about all things faith and feminism.
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We believe that Jesus trusted, respected, and encouraged women to teach and preach His
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word.
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And apparently that's controversial.
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Get comfy.
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Stop.
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I hate that.
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I choked myself.
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Good.
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Happy coffee time.
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Happy coffee time, world.
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Happy cough?
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Nope.
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Happy cough drop time.
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Yeah, for me.
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Alyssa still has the plague.
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I do have the plague.
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If any of you have ever had pneumonia, first of all, how do you get pneumonia?
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Explain this to me, because the internet basically says, we don't know.
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I heard that a small pneumonia demon crawls into your room at night and into your lungs.
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Frankly, at this point, I would believe it.
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Actually, I had a patient tell me one time if he could have any superpower, it would
1:14
be to look at someone and slowly fill their lungs with liquid.
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So maybe that happened to you.
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Did you perchance call the police?
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He gave us all pens for Christmas.
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Maybe, maybe call the police.
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That's not a good enough Christmas present.
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Speaking of Christmas, have you people started purchasing Christmas gifts yet?
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Yeah.
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Because our mother, she is determined to be done Christmas shopping, I think in the next
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like two weeks.
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Soon.
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She's a woman on a mission.
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That overwhelms me.
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I get that though, because there's like other things that you want to take care of during
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that holiday season.
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And Thanksgiving is really late this year.
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So you have even less time to shop.
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I get the desire to do it.
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I don't get the motivation to do it.
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Yeah, that's a very different thing.
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I think every year I'm like, I'm going to start early.
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And I do a little bit, but I'm not as proactive as mom.
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I am a procrastinator.
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However, the kids a lot of times will go, like during the summer, if you don't know
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this, this is great, hot tip.
2:27
Hack!
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During the summer, a lot of, I don't know, like grocery stores and stuff.
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So like Target, Meijer, Walmart, whatever, they will start to get rid of all of their
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previous year's toys.
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So everything goes on clearance.
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It's fantastic.
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So if you've got little kids, check around, I want to say like June, July.
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I think it was July.
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Yeah, like Target had a ton of Melissa and Doug stuff on sale, like good clearance.
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And then you just like stick it in the closet and don't forget that you have it.
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That's the key.
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Because that's a bad time.
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Also don't purchase so much that your children get tired of opening presents because I did
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that once.
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It's not a great time.
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But both of your kids have winter birthdays as well.
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So you can just kind of spread the love.
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It's actually really tough.
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All the birthdays are like right in a row.
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My husband's birthday is the month before Christmas and then there's Christmas and then
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we've got a January birthday and then we've got February birthdays.
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So it's just all right in a row.
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Don't do that to yourself people.
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Spread your children out a little bit.
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So today we are going to be talking about something that's been on my mind and on my
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heart for a couple of weeks now.
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It's on your heart?
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It's literally on my heart.
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How did it manage that?
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It was a little demon.
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People are going to stop listening to us.
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We're going to be talking about people pleasing today.
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We're going to hurt some people's souls a little bit.
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Sorry about that.
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Sorry.
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It's just something that I feel like specifically is forced on women and were conditioned from
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a very young age to become very aware of other people's needs around us and not even put
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ourselves on the list of who we care about.
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There's also a lot of negativity around self-love and self-care because that was a big thing
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for a while.
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Take time for yourself, but then it seems like you're selfish because you're doing it.
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I actually watched this TikTok today and it's this guy.
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He actually responds to a lot of Christian podcasts, but he is not himself a Christian.
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So it's really interesting.
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I sent a couple of them to you.
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He has a nice beard.
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He does.
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He has a lovely beard.
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But one of the ones that he was talking about, he was like, okay guys, so this is embarrassing
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for me.
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I hope you're prepared.
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And basically what had happened was several months prior, he recognized that his wife
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was just kind of drained.
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She was needing a break.
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So he bought her a plane ticket to go out to New York to see some shows.
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I don't know how much this cost him.
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I realize that that's not something everyone can do.
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But bought her a plane ticket for like a whole week.
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Just go do your thing.
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I've got the kids.
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They've got three kids.
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You know, just-
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Karly Three too many.
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Love we bring.
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And the week before she was supposed to go, absolutely all of the children got sick.
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Like puking toddlers.
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They've got a puppy.
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It's a bad time, right?
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So she's feeling guilty.
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She's feeling like she should stay.
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She should cancel on this trip.
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And he's like, no, absolutely not.
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You go.
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I'll be fine.
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Everything will be fine.
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So she went.
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And he did this video about it.
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Hey, look at the fun time she had.
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Look what she did for herself.
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This is great.
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You know, kind of praising her.
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And he said that most of the comments that he got were like, you're such an amazing dad.
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She owes you a big favor when you get her when she gets home, blah, blah, blah, stuff
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like that, you know?
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And he's like, guys, this is embarrassing.
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The bar is set so low for, in his case, dads.
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But you know, we can kind of extrapolate that to men in general that simply a man staying
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home with his children and, you know, being a parent is like, oh, she owes you big time.
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She actually doesn't.
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Like I understand that it's not always possible for parents to step away, that it's nice that
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she's able to to take a break.
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But let's flip this around and let's say he went on a five day hunting trip or a golf
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trip or something.
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Absolutely no one is going to get on there and be like, oh, he owes you big time when
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he gets back.
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You're such a wonderful mom.
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It's just incredible that you can do this all by yourself.
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No, that would absolutely never happen.
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Right.
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But because women are raised to be nurturing, to be maternal, to be people pleasing, and
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men generally are not raised with that same expectation.
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We get crap like that.
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I was listening to a podcast and it was this male author of a book about people pleasing
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and to promote his book, he made a podcast about it too.
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But it was just very interesting hearing that he was a people pleaser.
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I'm not saying that men cannot be people pleasers.
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I absolutely think that they can, but just the different dynamics.
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For women, it is in our DNA.
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It's an expectation.
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Yes, it's an expectation.
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But for him, the way he was describing it was kind of like a bank and you have this
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personal bank and every time you do something for someone else, you're giving away a little
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bit of love that you have for yourself as well.
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So one of his examples was after I go to the gym and all I want to do is take a 30 minute
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long steaming hot shower.
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But I know that there's other people in the house and I don't want to take up all the
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hot water, so I'll just take a slightly less hot shower to accommodate the rest of the
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people in the household.
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Or I'm not going to take the very last bagel or whatever it is.
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Maybe it's just kind of like being a decent human being.
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Yeah, I don't know that I would look at that and say, oh, he's a people pleaser.
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People pleasing.
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Yeah.
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I think it's just in general, you should consider the thoughts and feelings of the people around
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you to some degree.
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But for women, it's pushed so much further.
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I'm not going to take the 30 minute hot shower.
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I can't go to the gym because someone has to make dinner, get the kids ready for school,
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etc, etc, etc.
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Your needs and priorities aren't even on your radar.
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So I looked up just in general, hey Google AI, what is a people pleaser?
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It says it's a pattern of behavior where someone goes out of their way to please others even
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at the expense of their own needs.
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And I think that's the key is at the expense of your own needs.
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It's not just, I'll take a slightly less hot shower.
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Well, I think a big highlight of that is the word needs.
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As opposed to, you know, when you're talking about, and I don't want to criticize this
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man because I don't know anything about him.
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But when you're talking about, oh I just want to take a hot shower, that's not necessarily
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a need.
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You know, if you have the time, if nothing else is necessary in the house and whatever,
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okay, yeah, take your hot shower.
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But it's not like a need, whereas women are expected to give up their needs.
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They're expected to when the toddler comes up and says, I want your lunch instead.
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Do give it to them.
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I want all of those donut holes.
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I want to lick each one.
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Every day of my life, okay?
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My son will go to Dunkin and he likes the little munchkins.
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And we got, because they've got, Dunkin has the, it's not a boo bucket, but like a Halloween
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bucket now.
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It's surprisingly expensive guys.
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Don't buy it.
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It's a lot of donuts.
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It's just a regular bucket.
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It's just a bucket.
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It's not super exciting.
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No, but we bought it for the kids to share.
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And I swear to you, that little boy took a bite or a lick of every single one.
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But that's kind of the expectation with parents, with moms, is that, well, he licked every
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single one, so I guess I'll be hungry for the rest of the day.
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And it's almost like a sense of like a status.
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You shouldn't have any time for yourself.
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You shouldn't put any effort into yourself or care for yourself in any way because your
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husband or your partner and your kids all come before you and you come dead last every
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time.
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And it's not like, it's okay for you to come last sometimes.
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Yeah.
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Sometimes you make sacrifices.
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Yeah.
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But you need to put your priorities and your mental health and your physical health at
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the top sometimes.
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So some other traits of being a people pleaser.
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You're always available to help others.
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Always available, again, at the expense of your own needs.
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You're going to drop everything to pick up that phone and talk to your coworker because
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they were having some drama.
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Brianna.
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Or, I don't know, any other examples, but I feel that.
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And I think so many other women feel that.
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You always have to drop everything.
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Well, and what's the...
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What are you looked at like if you don't?
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If you don't pick up that phone when your coworker calls, you're kind of a word that
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I shouldn't say on the Christian podcast.
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A real witch with a B.
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Yeah.
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Like, you're a jerk.
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You're anti-social.
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You're not holding up your part of the deal.
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Or even things like, hey, do you want to go out to lunch today and you feel like you can't
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say no.
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That's another trait of a people pleaser is the inability to say no without an excuse
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attached to that.
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I just don't want to.
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That actually happened to me this weekend.
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I got a text from another parent at my daughter's school and it was like, oh, hey, can she come
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over and do whatever.
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This is not a parent that I know, but they wanted her to come over.
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My daughter's very social.
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She's not like me, guys.
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But I didn't want her to go, not for any particular reason.
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Other than that, she's busy a lot and I don't get to see her a ton.
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I wanted to spend time with her, but I couldn't just say no because then I'm a jerk.
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So I was like, no, we're doing family things and this and that.
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Let me explain 45 different things to you because you don't want to be the jerky mom
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in line that everybody glares at.
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For me, the other day I was at work and this rep came in and she was offering to buy us
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crumble cookie.
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In a different town was the closest crumble cookie.
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So it was a good 10 minute drive, I would say.
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She's like, I don't know if I can have it delivered.
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I can drive over there though.
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Do you want to come with me?
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And I was like, uh, uh, uh, uh.
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My brain went completely blank.
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And to me, I just should have said no because I'm at work.
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I can't just get up and go drive to crumble cookie with you.
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Super weird.
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Yeah.
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But she laughed at me.
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She's like, you can just say no, I don't want to.
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It's okay.
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Well, it was very nice of her to make that not like an awkward situation.
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And then I just got up and I was like, I gotta go.
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I'm the most awkward person.
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I can't handle myself.
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Another trait is to make plans and take care of details for others.
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I think you do that a lot.
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Yeah.
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I think we've talked about this before, but we go, guys, we go to Disney a lot.
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Okay.
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I don't know if you know this or if you've been on the podcast or in our lives for any
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amount of time, but we are Disney folk.
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I think folk is too light of a word.
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We are citizens of Disney.
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We've lost our dang minds.
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Right now we don't have a trip planned for like two years, two and a half years, I think.
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And we're all over here just losing our crap.
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Just in a deep state of depression.
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I mean, I give it another two months before one of us books a trip.
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Maybe.
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It's just so comforting.
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It's just such a happy place.
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Anyway.
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So whenever we go on the trip, our mom and I are kind of the designated planners.
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And it's exhausting.
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If you've ever planned a Disney trip, it is complicated.
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There's so much that goes into it.
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And it's not just like, okay, I'm going to take a week and plan the whole trip and be
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done.
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It's, okay, this has to happen at 180 days out.
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This has to happen at 60 days out.
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This has to happen at 30 days out.
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Take restaurant reservations until 60 days ahead and you have to wake up at the crack
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of dawn to schedule those.
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Otherwise you're not going to get those reservations.
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And I think the issue with that is I feel like people pleasers feel like they can't
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ask for help or asking for, if they do ask for help, they're inconveniencing someone
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else.
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Well, I think there's an expectation, especially on Christian women, of just handling all of
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these things.
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That's your job as the woman, as the wife, as the whatever.
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You're going to handle this because I don't know, because traditional gender roles, I
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guess.
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I mean, think about your holidays, right?
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When you go over for Thanksgiving or Christmas, I feel like in a lot of families, there's
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like one specific person who does not ask for help and takes on all the stress.
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And it's not that people aren't offering to help, it's just that they feel like if they
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were to ask for help, that would be inconveniencing the other person.
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They don't want to do that desperately.
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And I think there's two sides to that.
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There's the side where other people, when you see someone struggling in that situation,
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whether it's planning a holiday, whether it's planning your vacation, whatever it is, to
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jump in and say like, hey, I'd like to take some responsibility, please give me something
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to do.
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But on the flip side also, women out there, even though you haven't been told you can
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do this very often, you can and should ask for and demand help.
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Especially if you feel like the people around you aren't offering it.
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And it's okay to give away some of that control.
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Maybe that's it.
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Maybe you want to keep that control.
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Or maybe you don't trust the people around you.
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But you had to teach people how to treat you.
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And I think part of that is demanding more.
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Well, even with the podcast, so there was a long stretch of time, Bre works full time
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and I work part time.
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So a lot of times I take on a lot of the editing, the whatever, but I have the plague.
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So I've had to hand over pretty much all the social media.
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That's why it's a real record.
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It's been great.
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It's not.
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It's been great.
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It's not.
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I don't have consistent fonts.
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It's fine.
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But the point is, that's a little tough for me, or the first couple times Bre edited episodes.
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This is a joint effort.
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Bre and I do this together.
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It's our podcast.
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But there's a sense of control.
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I could do this the way that I want it done, or I could do it better.
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Well I know exactly how I want it done.
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And so it's hard for me to step back and say, no, Bre knows what she's doing.
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She's going to do a good job, all is well.
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That's tough for me.
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And maybe that's why God has given me the plague.
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Maybe.
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But maybe for me too.
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I've become very relaxed at just, okay, she's got this.
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She can handle it.
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She'll let me know if she needs help.
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But maybe that's God's way of being like, Breanna, step up.
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Well I think, and I've talked about this in therapy many times, because of planning
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Disney trips and stuff.
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My therapist said to me, I remember the first couple times she was like, have you ever just
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said no?
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Yeah.
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I'm not going to plan this.
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I'm not going to do this.
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If you guys want to get on that ride, you can handle it.
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I was like, no.
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What do you mean?
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Is that allowed?
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Are you crazy?
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No is a complete sentence.
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You can't say no.
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But, and that was a little jarring to me, to actually accept this concept of, I can
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say, no this is my limit.
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I've hit my limit and someone else has to take it from here.
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Part of a people pleaser is the inability to set boundaries.
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And I think I would also add to that, keep those boundaries.
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Because you feel like, if you're a people pleaser, you're probably an empath too.
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You feel like you don't want to hurt that other person.
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Right.
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I don't want to put more on you when I know how hard it is to have so much on me.
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Right.
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But those boundaries are set up for a reason.
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And if that other person respects you or loves you in any way, they'll understand why you
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put up those boundaries and they'll respect them.
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And I think a huge way to start down that path, a really good way, is to find those
21:09
people that you really trust and really believe in.
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Like with the podcast, how Brie is one of the people that I trust the most in the world.
21:17
Good.
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As it should be.
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So I can hand that to her, knowing that she's not going to get mad at me for saying, I need
21:25
your help, or intentionally screw it up, or anything like that.
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And then from there, maybe I can go to a person that I trust a little bit less, because I've
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distanced myself from that need for control.
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I've distanced myself from that need to people please.
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I think for just in general, everybody out there, we talk about this at work a lot, is
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situational awareness.
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So at your holidays, as they're coming up, rather than constantly going up to that person
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who's handling all that stress and saying, what can I do to help, what can I do to help,
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what can I do to help.
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Instead, just take something on.
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And that's part of what love languages too, I know that that's controversial, but one
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of mine is acts of service.
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And not having to ask for help, that in and of itself shows so much love to me, is when
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someone just shows up and takes something off my plate without having to have me ask
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for it.
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Well, because I think, and again, this was in that TikTok video that I talked about earlier.
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He said, my wife didn't leave me a list of here's all the phone numbers for the doctors
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and here's what to do if this kid gets sick and here's how to give the medication and
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here's what dinners to make and whatever.
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He's like, she didn't have to do that because I'm just the other parent and I should know
22:49
how to do those things.
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But women are expected to, if they give you a job at all, to give you all of the instructions
23:00
on how to do that job.
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I remember another post, I think it was Ezra Rising, who's on Facebook if you want to
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look her up, she's great.
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But she said that she went over to a friend's house, they were like, new to the area, trying
23:14
to make a friend, whatever.
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And the husband, I think the wife was sick or something like that.
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They had invited them over for dinner, but the wife was sick and so the husband was like,
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no worries, I'll make dinner, whatever.
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And she's like, that's great.
23:29
Love that for them.
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So they get there and all he's done is bought ground beef to make hamburgers.
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He's going to grill hamburgers, right?
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And she's sick, she's still not feeling well.
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He didn't buy buns.
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He didn't get, he was like, I thought she was going to get those.
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I thought she was going to make the sides.
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Honey, where's the grilling tongs?
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Honey, where's this?
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And by the time that they sat down to eat dinner, which was just burgers at that point,
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and they had had to go to the store to get the burger buns, by the time they sat down,
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she had gotten up like 12 times to get XYZ.
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Because women are expected, even if they give you a job, to still mostly do the job for
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you, but then you're going to finish it and get all the credit.
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These burgers are fantastic, Carl.
24:24
The turkey's amazing.
24:29
But I just think it's so interesting because that's what, you know, I know we talk about
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things in a gendered way so often.
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This is a feminist podcast, guys.
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I don't know if you know this.
24:44
But it is, it just is so often gendered in that way.
24:52
This is not on topic, but I posted on our Instagram and TikTok today because I was in
24:57
Barnes and Noble a couple of days ago and there's this board book, essentially a children's
25:03
board book, and it says, a man, a can, a plan.
25:08
I just thought it was so funny and the table of contents are like, SpaghettiOs, beer, meat.
25:16
It was something, the subtitle was like, you can do this.
25:19
Yes, it was just ridiculous.
25:22
But that is the society that we live in.
25:25
We do not expect that a man could make himself dinner without a board book and a can of SpaghettiOs.
25:37
We need to expect more.
25:40
You're an adult, figure out how to feed yourself or wash your dog or wash your freaking dog.
25:49
Another trait of a people pleaser is that they have low self-esteem and I think so many
25:54
women out there are taught, hey, if I give you a compliment, just downplay it.
26:00
Or if I like your shirt, I can't just say thank you.
26:04
I need to tell you, oh, well, I got it on sale or oh, this old thing, it's been sitting
26:07
in my closet for 17 years.
26:09
Well, I think let's talk about the be humble comment.
26:13
Yeah.
26:14
There was, I mean, we talked about it last week, but the governor of Arkansas was speaking
26:18
out against Kamala Harris and saying, she said, I have kids that keep me humble, but
26:26
what is Kamala Harris, what's keeping her humble?
26:30
As an insult because she doesn't have any biological children of her own, but she does
26:38
have two stepchildren.
26:39
And her response was, well, first, I think there's a lot of women out there who for one
26:46
are not aspiring to be humble.
26:50
I think that's such a powerful quote.
26:53
Like it's not that there's anything wrong with humility.
26:56
I think that is something that we should have, but just because she's a woman doesn't mean
27:02
her number one aspiration in life should be to be humble.
27:05
She's a powerful, powerful person.
27:08
And again, you don't say this to men.
27:10
You don't say, well, what's keeping you humble?
27:13
Right.
27:14
And if we're going to call that a Christian attribute, because the Bible does absolutely
27:19
talk about humility.
27:21
If we're going to talk about it as a Christian attribute, then you have to ask men, what's
27:25
keeping you humble?
27:26
What's keeping you humble?
27:27
Drop the mic.
27:28
Right.
27:29
I mean, like where is your humility?
27:33
Because we can't, there's nothing in the Bible, there's no argument that says women should
27:38
be humble, but men get off the hook.
27:40
Well, I think anytime a woman shows that she has a backbone or is in a position of power
27:48
or expects more out of the people around her, she's called a witch with a B.
27:53
I mean, absolutely.
27:56
I think women have tried to change that narrative.
28:00
Yeah.
28:01
So they put a boss in front of it.
28:03
Right.
28:04
But I mean, that's just another sign of how much further we have to go as a society is
28:10
just because she is strong doesn't mean that she's a bad person.
28:14
Right.
28:15
Well, my husband and I have been watching the show Scrubs and this was a show, I mean,
28:21
like Bri and I have gone through quite a transformation over the years, okay?
28:25
This is a show we always used to like, I always have enjoyed Scrubs and it's funny and I think
28:29
it's hard to take today's standards and push them back.
28:33
This is a 20 year old show.
28:34
Yeah.
28:35
But still, I was watching it.
28:38
It's a pretty sexist show.
28:39
Any of the women in it, it's not that they don't make them strong and powerful, they
28:44
absolutely do, but it's almost like in a mocking sense.
28:49
Like they're too strong and powerful.
28:51
And there's one scene, I think I watched it yesterday, and he was talking about strong,
28:56
powerful women and how it's so sexy when women are strong and powerful because we've always
29:01
got a downplay.
29:03
Right.
29:04
If a woman is strong and powerful, we're going to turn it into a sexual thing because then
29:10
it's not as intimidating, I guess.
29:13
And so the scene shows these three women walking down the hall and they've just, all of them
29:18
have kind of taken control of particular situations or whatever.
29:21
And it shows them, the men, the three men that are with these three women, and it shows
29:27
them as children.
29:29
So the fact that these women were strong made the men feel like children.
29:37
Which is ridiculous.
29:39
And it truly hit me because the fact that I'm strong, the fact that I am independent,
29:47
the fact that I can handle situations in no way detracts from my husband also being all
29:55
those things.
29:57
It doesn't turn him into a child.
30:00
It doesn't mean that he has any excuse to not handle his own crap.
30:07
And yet you look at all of these things and it's like, oh, well, we love strong women
30:11
because it's so sexy, but also it allows us to be children or it makes us into children.
30:16
I don't know.
30:17
It's such a weird concept.
30:19
Yeah, that's very bizarre.
30:20
I think anytime you add that extra but, you don't actually believe the previous sentence.
30:27
So we love strong women, but, okay, so you don't actually love strong women.
30:35
Right.
30:36
Ridiculous.
30:37
Ridiculous.
30:38
I was reading this blog post about this woman who was claiming to be a people pleaser and
30:44
she's like, I need to stop being a passive spectator in my own life.
30:50
I really liked that statement because I felt like that so many times and I know everybody
30:56
does but when you're a kid, you're like, oh, if I could just get through high school, then
31:00
my life is going to begin.
31:02
Or if I could just get my license, then I'm going to have freedom and I'm going to have
31:07
a great fantastic life.
31:09
But as people pleasers, how often are we actually taking control of our own lives?
31:15
Not a lot.
31:16
How often are you actually doing what you want to do and have goals that you want to
31:22
achieve?
31:23
Not just your husband's or your family's or your boss's.
31:27
What's making your life worth living right now?
31:31
And we've talked about that a lot at my work lately, just creating a life for yourself that
31:35
you don't have to retire from.
31:38
And for me, a lot of that right now is this podcast.
31:41
Having something that I get to do that's not just work related that I'm doing on my own
31:48
time with you.
31:49
And I think what's keeping me going with that too, and I think you're absolutely right,
31:56
is doing something that's just for you.
31:58
We have to actively take time away from other things to do the podcast.
32:04
I calculated it out one time and it essentially equates to a part time job between research,
32:09
record, edit, posts on socials, whatever.
32:13
And so those hours, that 20 hours a week or whatever it is, has to come from somewhere.
32:20
And for a people pleaser, that's difficult because you have to step away and say, okay,
32:28
well, I'm going to take an hour right now and Nathan's going to have to watch the kids.
32:36
And the kids might not be napping yet or whatever, but it's still okay that I go do this.
32:44
And I think it's funny because if any of our family's still listening out there, we'll
32:52
see you for the holidays.
32:55
No, we see our family all the time.
32:57
That's actually quite a problem.
32:59
But I don't think anyone in our family would necessarily look at you and I in particular
33:06
and say people pleaser because we really don't fit the same mold as a lot of the people that
33:17
we love because we are much more outspoken.
33:22
We are much less likely to get my husband a plate at dinner time.
33:29
This crap is not happening here.
33:32
But at the same time, it's one of those things where it's like, who do you compare yourself
33:35
to?
33:36
If we compare ourselves to very conservative Christian women, we would not be considered
33:41
people pleasers, you and I.
33:43
But if we compare ourselves to alpha men of the world, we're very clearly people pleasers.
33:51
The inability to tell someone else to plan their own dang vacation.
33:56
The inability to say no.
34:00
Those things I think absolutely lean themselves to people pleasing.
34:04
Or just constantly in the back of your mind being like, I should get up and go do this
34:10
or go do that or take care of this.
34:13
Just constantly on your mind.
34:15
You can't just relax and be in the moment or give yourself a break.
34:20
You're constantly thinking, oh, I should be doing this.
34:24
I think it goes into the story of Mary and Martha too.
34:27
There are a lot of stories of Mary and Martha, but-
34:29
There's a lot of Mary and Martha's.
34:31
There are.
34:32
Shocking amount of Mary's.
34:34
But in the Bible, we see a really great example of this.
34:37
Jesus comes to his friend's house.
34:40
So Mary, Martha, and Lazarus are siblings and they're friends of Jesus.
34:44
Which how cool to be known in the Bible as a friend of Jesus.
34:49
A bestie.
34:50
You're not even talking like a disciple or something like that.
34:53
A friend.
34:54
He's just come into your house to hang.
34:56
Yeah, it's super cool.
34:58
But anyway, he's at their house and Mary is sitting there listening to Jesus.
35:06
Taking it all in.
35:08
Learning from her savior.
35:12
Martha is running around doing all the crap.
35:15
She's getting that charcuterie board.
35:18
She's pouring the wine.
35:21
And she gets pissed at her sister.
35:24
I would.
35:25
I would too.
35:26
I mean, in that scenario, if I'm walking around trying to get- there's 20 people in my house
35:32
and I'm trying to get everything ready for everybody and trying to do all the things
35:36
and my sister has her butt sitting on the floor, we're gonna have words.
35:41
We're gonna catch some hands.
35:44
Is that what the kids say?
35:46
I don't think the kids are saying it.
35:48
I don't know.
35:49
I'm gonna hit you.
35:52
And so Martha goes up to Jesus and is like, Jesus, come on.
35:57
This is ridiculous.
35:58
I need some help here.
36:00
Can you tell my dumb sister to stop it?
36:05
And Jesus says, no, Mary's doing the right thing here.
36:10
The rest of it doesn't matter.
36:12
It doesn't matter if everybody's shoes are lined up by the door.
36:16
It doesn't matter if the wine is all poured properly.
36:20
People can handle it themselves.
36:23
None of it matters.
36:24
All that matters is sitting here and hearing the words that I'm saying.
36:28
Would you just calm down?
36:30
Yeah.
36:31
And yet, despite that very clear story where not only is Jesus saying that, but he's saying
36:38
it to a woman, despite that being in the Bible, the expectation of a Christian woman is to
36:47
make sure everybody's shoes are lined up at the front door.
36:50
Make sure the glasses are all poured.
36:52
Make sure everybody has a perfect plate.
36:54
Make sure the pies are lined up just so.
36:58
That is the expectation of a perfect Christian wife.
37:02
Not to stop and spend time with the people that she loves.
37:07
Not to stop and read her Bible.
37:09
Not to stop and be in the moment, but to handle all the crap while her husband watches football.
37:21
In spite of a very clear biblical command.
37:26
So Christian women out there that are told, this is your role, this is your job, Jesus
37:32
said it's not.
37:33
Jesus said it's not and he said it's okay to expect more of the other people around
37:37
you to demand more, to say get your butt up from that couch.
37:44
Go make a side dish.
37:45
Yeah.
37:46
I mean if you want a glass of wine, pour it yourself.
37:49
If you want to eat, make your own plate.
37:52
It's okay.
37:54
It's okay.
37:55
Another blog that I was reading, there was a quote from I think this woman's therapist
38:02
or something, I don't know, but she said raising a girl to be nice is like sending her out
38:07
to the world with one hand tied behind her back.
38:10
Isn't that good?
38:12
That hurts.
38:13
Yeah.
38:14
Because nice means not good, not bad, just nice.
38:19
That's a quote from Into the Woods.
38:23
But it's true.
38:25
How often are we teaching our girls, don't be rude to him even if he's making you uncomfortable,
38:31
just try to diffuse the situation, be nice.
38:35
When you're at work, maybe don't assert yourself as much as you think you should.
38:40
Don't stand up for yourself or your other coworkers, just be nice.
38:43
Don't make waves.
38:44
Yeah.
38:45
Don't make waves.
38:46
Stay in line.
38:47
But you're really doing her a disservice.
38:49
And like that other TikTok that we were talking about where Mark Driscoll was saying he did
38:56
not raise his daughters to be independent, but he did raise them to be strong.
39:02
I don't know how he thinks he's raising them with any kind of strength, but we're teaching
39:08
our girls, especially in the conservative Christian world, that they don't hold a lot
39:13
of value other than their niceness and their ability to raise children and make Thanksgiving
39:20
dinner and whatever.
39:23
But how are we raising our boys?
39:26
We raise them saying, you're strong.
39:30
Everything you do, everything you touch is a turn to gold.
39:35
Maybe we don't do that.
39:36
No, but I think that's a totally valid point.
39:40
We raise boys often, not always.
39:44
I think there's a huge turn in society as we look at what toxic masculinity is and how
39:49
it affects families.
39:51
But oftentimes, particularly in previous generations, we were raising boys saying, if you change
39:57
a diaper, it's a favor to your wife.
40:01
If you do the dishes, she should throw you a party.
40:07
Karly It's like that meme or the GIF, I don't know
40:10
the difference between the two honestly, where it's a husband or a dad and he is sitting
40:17
on his phone and he's taking his kids for a walk or he took the kids to the park and
40:21
he's sitting on his phone and everybody around him is saying, what a great dad.
40:25
He took his kids out for whatever activity.
40:28
Amazing.
40:29
But you see the exact same image, but it's a woman instead of a man.
40:33
She's sitting on her phone.
40:34
You think, wow, what a terrible mother.
40:37
She's not paying attention to her kids.
40:42
There's different expectations.
40:45
If a man does anything, he's praised.
40:48
Well, I think I've talked about this TikTok before, but there's this creator and I think
40:55
it's Jimmy on relationships.
40:56
Oh, Jimmy.
40:58
If you've ever seen him and he does a lot of role playing.
41:02
I don't know if he's therapist, he presents himself as a therapist.
41:05
I've seen Jimmy.
41:06
I've seen his wigs.
41:07
I think he's just got the one wig.
41:09
Cross-dressing Jimmy.
41:10
But he did one where, so he plays both roles.
41:14
He plays the female partner and the male partner.
41:19
The woman is washing dishes and the man comes out and he's like, hey, where's my cup, my
41:27
mug, whatever.
41:29
She was like, well, remember how I asked you to help out with the dishes?
41:36
You were going to do them half the time.
41:37
I was going to do them half the time.
41:39
This was not a chore that we decided was mine, but you've never ever done them.
41:44
So now I'm going to do my dishes and you're more than welcome to do yours.
41:48
And he got all pissy and was like, this is so ridiculous.
41:53
It would take you two extra seconds to wash this dish.
41:57
This is petty.
41:58
You're just trying to be vindictive.
41:59
Blah, blah, blah.
42:00
Goes on and on and blames her for it.
42:03
In this context, I think about that and it's almost cringy as a woman to sit there and
42:10
watch another woman.
42:13
It's really jimmy, but in theory, another woman be assertive like this.
42:20
It's hard to watch that because we're trained not to do it.
42:24
Right.
42:25
Even if you think, oh, I wasn't trained specifically, but look at the examples around you.
42:32
Watch those shows like Scrubs or any other show, Friends, you know, all of them.
42:38
It's all around you.
42:39
You've been conditioned as mostly a woman to be a people pleaser.
42:45
And it's not that I don't absolutely agree with what he's saying in that.
42:49
Yeah, she shouldn't.
42:50
If this isn't a chore that you've agreed that's hers, then she doesn't have to do it.
42:57
You handle your own crap, you're a grown up.
42:58
I agree with it, but it makes me uncomfy.
43:02
Right.
43:03
Because, and my husband would never.
43:07
But even so, it makes me feel like, oh, she shouldn't be doing that.
43:14
You know, like there's just this ingrained part of me.
43:17
Right.
43:18
Well, I think you expect more of your partner.
43:22
You sought out a partner who met your standards and you expected more.
43:29
There are so many times and out there in the dating world, you'll, y'all, y'all know, but
43:37
people say, well, just maybe give them a second chance or your standards are just too high.
43:44
That has been said to me recently.
43:49
Even when I know in my heart of hearts, this is not the kind of person that I want to lower
43:53
my standards for, to make exceptions for.
43:57
But women tell women to lower your standards.
44:02
And we excuse sexist behavior all the time.
44:04
Like that blog that I was reading, she was talking about her friend who's a female engineer
44:11
and how hard it is as a female engineer in a male dominated industry and how expectations
44:16
are different for her.
44:18
Her work environment is difficult, but she's like, well, they do the best they can.
44:22
Again, we're making excuses constantly.
44:25
She's just being nice in a situation that like they don't respect her.
44:31
And she says, well, they're doing the best they can.
44:33
Right.
44:34
I always, I try not to talk about feminism as much in real life.
44:41
I have a problem with it because I don't want to just be someone that that's all I talk
44:46
about.
44:48
But it's really difficult when you do watch shows that are older to not recognize so much
44:56
of that stuff.
44:58
Once your eyes have been open to it, it's like when you see, when you're looking for
45:01
a car and you're like, I'm just looking for Subarus and now all of a sudden all you
45:05
see is Subarus all around you.
45:08
Yeah.
45:09
Because you watch these shows and the women are caricatures.
45:15
It's like they're not real people.
45:18
You watch Friends, for instance.
45:21
I love Friends.
45:22
I probably watch Friends twice a year.
45:25
But each of the women is a caricature.
45:28
They don't have the same depth as a lot of the male characters do.
45:33
Or think of the secondary female characters even.
45:36
Yeah.
45:37
Like Janice.
45:38
Janice!
45:39
That's her name.
45:41
She has one character trait until the end where they kind of try and make her more of
45:45
a real person, but one character trait.
45:49
Any of the girls that Joey dates, one character trait.
45:53
They're single moment characters.
45:57
And yet you look at the secondary men and it's not the same.
46:02
Right.
46:03
There is depth.
46:04
There are mustaches.
46:05
There are mustaches.
46:08
Or with scrubs, the women are so often painted as just sexual objects.
46:14
Yeah.
46:15
Yeah.
46:16
And it's hard.
46:17
It's very hard to watch that.
46:18
Even though they're sitting there saying, look, this woman's a doctor.
46:21
She's so smart.
46:22
She's so great.
46:23
Whatever.
46:24
And every three seconds she is in a situation where she's making out with some guy or she's
46:30
half naked or whatever.
46:31
And I don't do that in any way.
46:33
I don't say that to slut shame in any way.
46:36
But just that that's how the writers are writing her.
46:39
Right.
46:40
She doesn't get to be any more of a person than that character trait or than that stereotype.
46:47
Even though obviously she's so much more than that.
46:49
She's a doctor.
46:50
She's a, you know, a scholar.
46:54
A scholar.
46:55
I don't know if I would go quite that far.
46:57
Not for scrubs.
46:59
So as we approach the 50 minute mark.
47:02
Oh hey, there was one more thing I wanted to bring up.
47:04
No.
47:05
Yes.
47:06
We're done.
47:07
No.
47:08
Goodbye.
47:09
No.
47:10
So we've talked before about how in church both Brie and I have done a program called
47:15
Rooted.
47:16
Yeah.
47:17
I think a lot of a lot of bigger churches do it.
47:20
It's like an intro to small groups.
47:22
And I remember in one of the weeks, I forget how many weeks the program is.
47:28
I don't know.
47:29
But in one of the weeks, everybody goes around and gives two or three character traits of
47:36
each person.
47:38
So they go around the room and they say, this is the impression that I have of you as a
47:41
person.
47:42
And it's towards the end.
47:43
So you've been with these people for a good bit and you know, whatever.
47:47
And I just, this one really sticks out to me.
47:50
So we were leading the Rooted group.
47:53
Big mistake.
47:54
I wouldn't trust you.
47:57
It's not even not trust me.
47:59
This is a terrible time.
48:02
But we are leading the group and both my husband and I were the group leaders.
48:08
It was not Nathan.
48:09
It was not me.
48:10
It was both of us.
48:11
And I remember one of the older men in our group.
48:16
And what I think, I think he only had one descriptor for me and it was maternal.
48:26
Eww.
48:27
Yeah.
48:28
Now, oh, that makes me uncomfortable.
48:32
I know.
48:33
I'm like, I'm not your mother.
48:34
Get out of here.
48:36
It was just such a statement to me.
48:41
I see you as nothing more than the woman that brings the snacks.
48:44
Which is bizarre to me because if anybody has met Alyssa in person, that is not the
48:50
first character trait I would say of you.
48:52
Not at all.
48:53
I don't even think it would make the top 10.
48:56
I don't, when he said it, I was like, have we met?
49:00
What?
49:01
Which just shows he didn't take the time to listen to you or get to know you at all.
49:07
Because if he did, even in the slightest, his top trait would be like a little aggressive.
49:13
Well, I think I was typecast.
49:18
You're the lovely wife of our leader.
49:23
You bring the snacks.
49:24
Yep.
49:25
I think I would fill his glass with laxatives.
49:31
You set out the pencils before everybody sits down, whatever.
49:34
Essentially you're the administrator.
49:37
Yeah.
49:38
That's just so different from my Rooter group because it was all female except for one guy,
49:43
but he left out later.
49:46
So we were just drinking wine.
49:48
That sounds like a much better time.
49:49
Having a good time.
49:50
Even still though, even still, we dealt with a lot of tough topics because-
49:57
Because women push this on women.
49:58
Women push this on women.
49:59
Women push submission, they push people pleasing, they push all kinds of things onto other women.
50:06
Yep.
50:07
Yeah.
50:08
There you go.
50:09
There's that.
50:10
How do you stop being a people pleaser though?
50:13
I Googled that too.
50:15
Don't worry.
50:16
I'm ready.
50:17
Don't worry.
50:18
I'm ready.
50:19
I'm Dr. Google.
50:20
Practice saying no.
50:21
I think-
50:22
No!
50:23
How was that?
50:24
That reminded me of Charlie Brown in the musical.
50:28
You know, Kristin Chenoweth.
50:29
She plays Sally.
50:30
Anyway.
50:31
I actually have no idea what you're talking about.
50:32
She goes, no!
50:35
Just saying no without an excuse.
50:40
Just say no.
50:41
Now you're not going to run into these situations every day, but give yourself a chance to just
50:49
flat out say no.
50:50
I don't want to.
50:52
Set healthy boundaries and don't break them.
50:57
I think that's the hardest thing.
51:00
Set those boundaries but actually put them into practice.
51:03
It's hard because a lot of times those boundaries are around people that you do love or situations
51:08
that you might, you know, it's just hard.
51:11
It is hard.
51:12
But prioritize yourself and set those boundaries.
51:16
Learn assertive communication.
51:18
I think something that women do specifically and you'll see it all over TikTok is they
51:23
use the word just a lot.
51:25
Like when you're sending an email, hey, I just wanted to check in with you.
51:29
Yeah.
51:30
You just want to try to make it softer, but be more assertive.
51:34
Say I am doing this or I need this from you.
51:38
I just need this from you.
51:41
Delay your response.
51:42
Oh, I do this all the time.
51:45
But it's mostly an anxiety response, so I'm not sure that's great.
51:48
Maybe set a time for yourself.
51:50
Something that I do is schedule a text.
51:54
Love that.
51:55
Did you know that you can do that everybody out there?
51:57
Schedule a text to go out at 2.30am.
51:59
You're not around your phone.
52:03
You don't have to deal with that person responding right away.
52:06
But yeah, I think maybe say, you know what?
52:08
I need some time to think about that.
52:10
Or I don't have a response to that right now, but I'll get back with you by X amount of
52:15
time to give yourself room to think, room to ruminate, room to be assertive.
52:23
Yeah, absolutely.
52:25
Allow time for yourself and don't think that it's being selfish.
52:29
And don't let people make fun of you if you just want to buy bubble bath and a candle
52:33
and a big, fat bottle of wine.
52:36
Just allow time for yourself.
52:39
Even if that means like, hey, I just left work and now I immediately have to go home
52:42
and feel like I have to get started and make dinner, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
52:46
Maybe you take the longer way home.
52:49
Maybe you spend time just listening to that podcast that you've been wanting to listen
52:53
to called We Are More Podcasts.
52:56
Binge it, people.
52:59
It's great.
53:00
Seven hours just to listen to talking about women.
53:02
At this point, we're at 27 hours.
53:05
Okay, that's a lot of hours.
53:07
I think this would be 28, right?
53:09
27 or 28.
53:12
We've learned this lesson.
53:13
Don't do this to me.
53:14
I think it's 28.
53:15
Don't use excuses and positive self-talk.
53:19
I wanted to talk a little bit about this too.
53:22
Think about would you want your daughter to say this to herself or your friend to say
53:29
this about herself or go through this situation?
53:32
Look yourself in the mirror and stop criticizing yourself.
53:37
Look in the mirror and say, I'm beautiful.
53:39
I'm smart.
53:40
I'm confident.
53:41
My boobs look great.
53:45
I love there's a Nicola Coughlin quote and she says something about how women like her
53:52
don't get represented very often on TV and you think it's about weight because that's
54:00
all anyone can focus on with her.
54:01
But she's like, women with perfect breasts.
54:05
I fell apart.
54:09
So she was just in the time like 100 something something and she responded to, she's like,
54:16
people need to stop calling me brave for being naked on TV.
54:19
What really, the truth is I have a great set of boobs and this was just me showing them
54:24
off.
54:27
On that note, and also one last thing, prepare yourself for rejection.
54:32
That's hard.
54:35
Because once you start saying no and once you start being assertive, you are going to
54:39
experience some rejection and that's okay.
54:42
That is part of life.
54:44
Prepare your heart for it.
54:46
Ouch.
54:47
Yeah.
54:48
On that note.
54:50
Yep.
54:51
Yep.
54:52
Yep.
54:53
Yep.
54:54
So next week, which we're going to be recording soon, so I'll probably still be coughing.
54:57
Prepare yourselves.
54:59
But we're going to be, next week will be our Halloween episode.
55:01
I'm actually not sure it might come out after Halloween.
55:03
No, it'll come out on Halloween.
55:05
Does it come out?
55:06
Oh, we're good.
55:07
Look at us.
55:08
Yeah, it's a Thursday.
55:09
So we are going to be talking about the Salem witch trials.
55:11
I'm very excited.
55:12
I've been doing some research and we're also going to be talking about the Pendle witch
55:15
trials.
55:16
I don't know nothing about that.
55:18
Which were in England.
55:19
So get ready for a little bit of spooky and some fun.
55:24
We should have some haunted music.
55:27
I'll get right on that.
55:30
You could just do that the whole time.
55:32
Alright, so we will see you guys for that.
55:36
Look forward to it.
55:37
We're going to be apparently singing spooky songs.
55:39
And also laughing like we're just...
55:42
Wow.
55:43
That was good, wasn't it?
55:44
Alright guys, look forward to that one.
55:47
Oh, if you know anybody from...
55:49
Just pick a state this time.
55:51
Okay.
55:52
You know a state!
55:54
Texas.
55:55
There you go.
55:56
Send it to your friends in Texas.
56:00
Because they have a good steakhouse there.
56:02
Wow.
56:03
Also, make sure you follow us on Instagram and TikTok.
56:08
On TikTok we are we.r.more4.
56:11
And Bree's been posting some really fun stuff over there.
56:14
I did post a picture of a manikina plant.
56:16
So go check that out.
56:19
And we'll see you next week.
56:20
Byeeeeeeee!