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Jacob Waller | The Christian Reeve Podcast | #108 | · The Christian Reeve Podcast

• 0:00
  Hello and welcome to another episode of Christian Reef
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  podcast. Today's guest is a musician and
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  podcaster from Bristol and the UK.
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  His name is Jacob, Wala. Welcome to the show.
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  Jacob, how you doing? Hey, thanks for having me.
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  It's a pleasure. It's a pleasure to have you.
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  Obviously, we would just talking off camera there.
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  How about our contact Jen? So thank you for putting us in
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  contact. Jen for setting this up.
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  Awesome, awesome. So yeah, I'm just going to jump
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  straight into it. Tell us a little bit about the
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  music scene in Bristol. What's the situation there?
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  You know, people ask me this and I'm not even necessarily
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  massively engaged with the music scene in Bristol.
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  Okay, I mean, I don't know to some extent because I'm in a
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  band and we play a music live obviously and I there's plenty
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  of like jam night and Blues Nights and they, you know, of
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  different genres. I do.
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  I did pre lockdown, and a few of them are starting to open up
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  again. Semi-regularly go to those but I
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  mean, more broadly, Bristol to Famous for, you know, types of
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  music that are not personally really into like electron
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  different types of electronic genres that I don't really
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  particularly listen to. And so I'm not necessarily
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  massively engaged specifically with the Bristol music scene
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  because I'm I'm, quite frankly just not cool enough for it to
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  my vibe. And like my band is kind of like
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  Americana folk e country which if you ask me is pretty much the
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  coolest of the genres that I don't think that's a common
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  opinion. So yeah my band between the
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  breaks we play Live whenever we can really we got a few things
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  coming up with think we're recording.
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  If not an entire album as much of an album as we can visit the
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  record. So yeah that's what I do
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  generally. You work in ongoing for
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  independently or you trying to get signed.
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  I don't know what we're trying. It's a strange one because It's
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  a relatively broad range of Ages.
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  I think the youngest is maybe 27, I'm 30 and then two of them
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  are like 40 41 and everybody except me has kids so oh she's
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  yeah it's the it's the it's the kids thing.
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  I think we're just trying to take it as far as we can given
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  that everyone has full-time jobs and kids which probably means it
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  won't get that far. But I think personally I do like
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  my podcast and they do video essays on YouTube.
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  I do my own music. So I'm trying to do more with
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  that kind of thing and it's all music oriented.
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  So what we're trying to do with the band, I don't know tickets
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  for as you can, we're all friends.
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  We all get along and we write what we think.
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  We think we write good music. So yeah, just take it as far as
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  we can. I guess it's interesting like
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  that unless spoken to quite a few different musicians on my
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  show, before many of them seem to be kind of leaning towards
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  going for it independently. Obviously, you know, you get
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  more control over the situation and whatnot.
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  But I guess what I wanted to say to you specifically is like, I
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  don't think they're necessarily Like rules in the same way that
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  there were years ago. So, Jen.
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  And I mean, I'm like, for example, if you take Tick Tock
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  as an example, you can just take any random song and it can
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  become huge overnight, even songs that, you know, Maybe
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  we'll already sort of well-known.
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  They can have a career Resurgence or whatever or really
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  obscure songs. You know, like I found abandoned
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  the other day that was being used for a trend and like
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  they've only released two albums in the sort of early 2000s and
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  then they disappeared off the face of the planet.
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  And it's like a really, really genuinely good band and I'm, I
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  seriously, I'm so thankful to that app for introducing me to
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  so many good musicians. Yeah, but you know, I agree.
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  I mean it is pretty on you can. Try to do anything and
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  potentially make it work. Mmm.
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  You know whether you just stick to just making things on
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  YouTube. I mean, this still like kind of
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  random element to it. Like, what kicks off.
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  So, I think my Approach so far with this online and YouTube
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  thing is just see what sticks just start throwing everything
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  at the wall. So, I've done, I did, I've done
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  a podcast for a while now, a year and a half.
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  I guess now not really getting anywhere.
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  It's quite hard to promote. What a podcast where is video
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  essays, take much more work but once you've done them, they're a
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  little bit easier. I find to kind of get them out
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  there and promote. Maybe it's just cause I'm a
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  little bit. Maybe I'm better at it than I am
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  a podcast. Maybe I'm not Charming enough to
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  do the podcast by result. And then you know since then
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  I've done so the last night I was struck by a wave of
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  inspiration and I just got this video of this YouTuber I watch.
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  She does like cryptocurrency things and I just kind of
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  remixed him into like a song and I just Gotta go again, it's just
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  trying anything and it, you know, it's, you know, for my
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  videos, it's doing against the relatively low Baseline of my
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  other videos. He seems to be doing well.
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  So I'm just kind of trying a bunch of things as I'm sure
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  you'll probably I've seen your stuff.
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  It's just, you know, try a bunch of things do it, you know well
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  and then see what actually works because this whole like viral
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  thing is just this is a random element to it.
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  Isn't there? Well go to say for me personally
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  I have a different philosophy. Like I don't Really, subscribe
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  to the whole, you know, throw stuff at the wall and see what
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  sticks kind of me thoughts. Because for me, everything that
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  you see me doing online, I genuinely am passionate about
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  and want to do. And I don't get me to there's
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  nothing. Like I don't really care to
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  that. That much, if something specific
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  comes off. What?
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  Okay, I should reword what I'm trying to say.
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  Obviously, it's great if things do well, but I'm not going to
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  just do only That thing, you know what I mean by there?
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  There have been people that have committed like, oh why don't you
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  do more of this stuff or like, you know, it's like, well, I
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  don't want to just be put into a box and only be allowed to do
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  that thing. You know, that for me is the
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  most creatively, stifling frustrating thing of all time.
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  And I don't really understand how people can can.
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  I mean I get it. If you like really specifically
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  passionate about just one thing in life but no one is everyone
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  has different your passion? Yeah but like for everyone seems
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  to To be into this mindset of like, I am this, I a musician.
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  I am office guy or whatever. Like you just this is me and
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  that's it and it's this like screw that, I don't know, I
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  don't mind that. But you know, I don't think it's
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  necessarily A Million Miles Away from what I'm saying because I
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  guess I'm just saying is Look different things, work to
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  different, extents and different things that are promotable or
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  difficult to promote or easy to promote in different ways.
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  So you know, what are all the different formats is like,
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  Reddit, there's YouTube, there's YouTube shorts, this podcast,
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  even on YouTube. There's, You Know, video essays
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  versus like podcasts versus just like, I don't know, cover
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  versions. And it's just like, at the end
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  of the day, I definitely want. I enjoy all.
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  I legitimately enjoy all of it, but lately, I've just kind of
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  massively reduced the amount of podcast if I'm doing.
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  Because it's just, if it's that much effort for really quite a
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  small return, compared to a video essay, which is actually
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  lots of effort, but bigger return.
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  Then I can just quite easily. Tell myself.
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  Well, I just spent a bit more time on the video assets, which
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  I think I prefer doing, probably do overall.
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  So it's kind of reassuring that it's It does better and then now
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  I just like consciously think my podcast.
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  Well I'm just going to do the ones.
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  I actually think. Yeah.
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  Actually I want to have that conversation or I want to do
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  that. Whereas before I was literally
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  just like every week. Like I got to do one.
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  Let's just like just talk about some random band, even though
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  I've probably got nothing interesting to say, but just
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  like try to turn them out. And again, I'm just trying terms
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  of random different approaches but I am genuinely into
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  everything I've done. There's nothing on my, I've got
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  in front of me now. Nothing on my YouTube that I
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  look like, look at, and think. Why did I do that?
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  Like, it all makes sense. It's all like.
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  Yeah, I like that. I like that.
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  Yeah, I enjoy doing that. Oh, some of the some villain.
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  I didn't really need to do that. It's kind of something that
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  week, but it's an interesting subject or something, I'm
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  interested, but it's just kind of like, yeah, I can see now the
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  change from like loads of podcasts that didn't get very
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  many listens to, you know, a few shorts if you jam videos.
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  If you music like video essay, Days so yeah, I don't know it
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  is. It's a bit of a random approach.
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  I will admit though, I I'm actually fully on the same
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  wavelength is you. I've been doing this properly
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  for two years. Now, I started with YouTube
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  decided to finally give it a proper go two years ago and it
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  kind of escalated from there and then, you know, how these things
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  happen, you try Instagram, you try Tick-Tock.
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  Try all these different platforms and you just end up
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  doing everything. And you find what works for you
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  and I thought with YouTube like oh I need to be posting every
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  day multiple times a day and you know I did all that and then the
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  thing that I've realized is that for the smaller at the okay, the
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  shorter video app so I Tick Tock Instagram, it's good to post
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  every day. It's good to post multiple times
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  jump on Trends, all that and it's really easy to do it really
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  quick, it's and it's fun. But with things like this
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  podcasting longer videos, things that take more time and also
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  just a platform in general YouTube, but I'm the same as you
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  like, I, when I started my podcast, you know, I went on all
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  these websites, read it and matchmaking.
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  All these websites which are still used to this day, but I
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  used to try and post several podcasts a week thinking, or
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  yeah, if there's more podcasts, there's more reach, there's, you
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  know, potentially a reach all these different people.
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  It never worked out. Way, I've had some episodes do
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  better than others, but the thing that I've learnt above all
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  else is that, I think that less is more.
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  I think it's better to rein it back and find something that
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  works. You know, obviously, if there is
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  more demand, if people are saying, oh, we want to hear
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  more, it'd be great to hear more, then, great step it up,
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  but as you said, it's so much work.
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  Putting a podcast together. Yeah.
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  Like, I didn't even for me, like, one a week.
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  Like she's like that, there it took a lot for me.
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  To just let it go. Like, okay, I'll give you a
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  really good example, you know, like how people pull out from
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  podcasts and they just leave you and then you're like, oh great,
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  well, got nothing for this week. Look, I have got Reserve topics.
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  I could do the whole, just one man podcast and I hate doing
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  that. I'll be honest.
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  Like, I do my very best and sorry to everyone that's
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  listening to the episodes that I've done that just singular, I
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  did them. I am still proud of those
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  episodes. I did my very best to had the
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  same approach, but and I've said it on the podcast before, It
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  just doesn't compare in terms of listen listen back to it.
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  Compared to a genuine conversation between two people.
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  There is just you know it's never going to be the same.
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  I've never I've never done a podcast episode of just me I
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  couldn't do it. It took me ages to even do a
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  video essay which I guess is a solo podcast because I was just
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  Without having someone to talk back is very strange with very,
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  very weird to me, and you have to kind of, like, artificially
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  create some sense of like, Charisma or something.
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  Like, I'm not saying I have no Charisma, but you have to
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  artificially like create a repartee with with nothing on
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  the other end of the camera. When you do a video essay, like
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  how do I put into your? How do I put into nation into my
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  voice in a way that I naturally would in a conversation?
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  When there's no one else. On the other hand?
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  That's the to me that feels very unnatural Rule, but I think I'm
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  getting a bit better. I think the first video I said I
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  did was a bit like, a little bit monotone, maybe because there's
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  no one on it, on the other end of the line, but, you know, it's
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  baby steps, isn't it really? Yeah, it's just practice.
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  I mean, it's the same. When I first started this
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  podcast, you know, you go back things over all the way up over
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  a hundred episodes. Now, in the very beginning, I
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  say the first 10 15. Maybe 10, 20.
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  Is very stiff. You know, like I still had the
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  same sort of approach. But there were one thing I
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  learned is that you need to make your guests feel comfortable and
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  you need to make it more of a discussion.
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  And some episodes are going to be just pure straight interview
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  and you try and get something and you just can't and you do
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  your best. But a lot of the time what the
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  people you're conversing with want to have a conversation you
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  know, and it escalates into that and But there's something I
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  could jump on something that the Ghost says anything like that, I
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  just go. Okay.
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  Let's roll with that. You know, because too many
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  people just stick to this, get some fucking scripts like that
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  you can't deviate from. Like, I've literally I've been
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  on other people's podcasts where they asked me a question.
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  We get onto something, I'm not all great.
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  Let's just talk about this and then they cut me off or let oh
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  no. Let's go back to this thing and
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  it's like, no, let that trailer thought go like ride that.
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  Wave, you can come back to your questions later though.
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  Yeah. It's it was interesting because
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  I find myself Massively disproportionately.
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  Listening to podcasts are also very, like, freewheeling and
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  more conversation. I don't really listen to the
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  kind of composed once you don't think are as common, but there
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  are, they do exist out there and it doesn't really do it for me,
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  but I don't, it's, you know, being on other people's podcast,
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  everyone has like a different approach.
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  So I got some good friends who do a podcast called fire, the
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  cannon, which is about like literature and when I was on,
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  I've been on a couple times, I think I should, but when I was
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  on it last, Because I'm very ideal have to do all my editing
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  because no one else does this with me?
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  I was very conscious of, like not just talking endlessly,
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  because I wanted to make sure that they didn't have tons of
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  editing to do when it came to it.
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  But I think at the same time they just like look, Theo, he
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  does all the editing. He doesn't mind how much editing
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  there is. You should just talk endlessly.
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  So the end of it, they're like, oh, you're a bit quiet.
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  And I was like, I don't want you to have too much editing because
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  I can talk shit a lot, but you're going to have to cut it
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  all out, but they're like, no, no, it's fine.
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  He doesn't mind that. That's what it's for.
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  Lie. There is no one there that no
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  one likes editing podcasts. That's a lie.
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  I refuse to believe that. You know, the only, the only
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  thing I like about editing podcast is you go through it and
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  sometimes you listen to it again and you hear that one but we're
• 14:59
  like, oh, that was actually quite funny or you're like oh
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  that was like, that was a nice little bit but it doesn't.
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  It's not the editing, it's the listening through it going to be
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  like oh yeah you had a bit of chemistry there or something,
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  but the act of editing because otherwise I wouldn't listen to
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  my own podcast again. If I didn't edit it, I wouldn't
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  Listen to it. So a little moment where you're
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  like, oh, this is actually a decent episode or something like
• 15:21
  that. Yeah, but on the flip reverse,
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  you get the opposite as well. If you didn't think it went as
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  well then you have to sit in this and to why it didn't go.
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  Well I mean I've been lucky I've never had episodes where it's
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  gone badly like you know like - but I have had a few where I
• 15:42
  really, really tried to get a conversation going and it just
• 15:47
  never happened. And I'm like but there was only
• 15:51
  I think there's Are you one specific time?
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  I can think of maybe two or three months ago, why that
• 15:57
  happened? And people still liked it.
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  So I don't know, maybe it's just in my head but like, you know, I
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  think sometimes it's that because to me, I've had a couple
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  where I'm like, it didn't feel like there's much chemistry in
• 16:07
  the conversation. Yeah.
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  And then my girlfriend is listen to it.
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  After I'd said that if she's like, it was fine.
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  But I don't know whether I saved it a bit and editing and turned
• 16:14
  like an owl conversation into a half an hour podcast, which
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  makes it sound snap here and therefore, inherently a little
• 16:20
  bit more kind of Productive or whatever or whether it just
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  wasn't as bad as I thought. But like you have no I've never
• 16:27
  actually had like a bad one but it's definitely been a few.
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  I've been like oh I didn't I didn't feel it and I get very
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  avoidant if that happens, I don't want it.
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  I don't have to listen to it and edit it so it's really bad.
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  So it ends up like taking a week longer than the others because
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  every time I listen to him lol, it's going to be terrible.
• 16:43
  It's going to be really bad but yeah, it's never actually that
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  part. It's never that about.
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  See your podcast is called underrated or overrated.
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  Tell us about the podcast and why people should listen.
• 16:55
  Yes, is underrated overheated. So basically I've got that
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  written down. I just yeah, I just missed.
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  Probably sorry. Oh, underrated over hated.
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  Yeah, so yeah. It's just about underappreciated
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  music. So I guess it started.
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  It was like just before lockdown so I can just avoid being one of
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  those people who just started it just because there's nothing
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  else to do during a lockdown. I did start it before we even
• 17:23
  knew we're going to go into lockdown.
• 17:24
  So I'm not quite that person although they were the work of
• 17:28
  the Hobbies is yeah. Because I've always kind of
• 17:32
  thought what is the point of Music criticism these days?
• 17:34
  I just like there's no real point in reading some quite
• 17:39
  frankly, idiot music journalist. They usually clueless talking
• 17:43
  about something as saying I think this is four stars or
• 17:45
  fight like no one cares because these days you go and YouTube or
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  Spotify. And if you think it's a
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  freestyle, I listened to it. Like, it takes this.
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  I'm not paying to listen to it. I don't, it's not like the 70s
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  where I would rely Leon a review of that.
• 18:01
  I agreed with a lot of time to, you know, to structure my
• 18:05
  purchasing habits. I don't have to do that anymore
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  because I could just listen to it and make my own mind up and
• 18:10
  if I want to buy the CD or DVD or whatever, I'll do that.
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  So to me it's not like it's kind of, you know, is a music
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  criticism podcast in a way. But ultimately isn't because
• 18:21
  it's just about talking about things, I think underrated it's
• 18:23
  kind of, hey, you might not have heard of this.
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  So I get people on and I introduce them to something,
• 18:28
  they have not heard of and then it's just a really Frank
• 18:30
  conversation, they don't have to like, what I've seen them, but
• 18:32
  hopefully they do and it's just that kind of thing.
• 18:36
  I agree with you. But I will add a caveat to this.
• 18:39
  I think that it depends on the musical background and sort of
• 18:44
  credentials of the person criticizing, like, take that guy
• 18:48
  on usual. So I got that you to be does.
• 18:50
  The, I always forget his name. He's nickname is melon got with
• 18:58
  the glasses Canadian, dude. Oh my God, this is good.
• 19:00
  Drive me crazy. This is the second time for
• 19:02
  surfing and Pantano Anthony fantana.
• 19:05
  Thank you. Thank you so much.
• 19:06
  I don't have to go Google that. Yeah, when Anthony fantana does
• 19:12
  his reviews, obviously, they've always famously got, you know, a
• 19:16
  combination of Applause and criticism in equal measure.
• 19:20
  But I think he's always Fair because what he tends to attack
• 19:24
  is more the professionalism, and the instrumentation stuff like
• 19:28
  that. He doesn't say he doesn't like
• 19:29
  strip it apart. Like An unfair way he was
• 19:32
  approaches everything the same way.
• 19:33
  So like when he's criticized, for instance, Eminem in the
• 19:36
  back, in the back and the in the past it's always because he
• 19:39
  looks at the back catalogue and sort of says well this is like
• 19:43
  the height of his career. This was what he was doing then
• 19:45
  this is what he's doing now. This isn't acceptable given that
• 19:49
  you know, we had this before. So why do we have this?
• 19:52
  Kind of low quality now and it will be everything from the
• 19:55
  lyrics. Quotable quality of the lyrics,
• 19:58
  the quality of the production, Etc.
• 20:01
  And I for instance, I remember he did a criticism of a Green
• 20:05
  Day album. I think it's father of all that
• 20:09
  one and I hadn't heard it before but I decided to just look at
• 20:14
  his watch his review and then listen to it afterwards and you
• 20:19
  know, I don't always agree with him.
• 20:20
  There are times when I've disagreed with him but with that
• 20:22
  one he was spot on. Like he basically tore it apart
• 20:26
  and said that, you know this album is essentially an This is
• 20:31
  admitted by Green Day or people close to them.
• 20:33
  That the album was simply put out as a kind of a nephew to the
• 20:37
  record label because they wanted to get out of their contract and
• 20:41
  do their own thing which I think in retrospect is is really doing
• 20:46
  a disservice to your fans like deliberately putting out a poor
• 20:48
  record. But when you listen to it it is
• 20:52
  like just half an hour of crap. Like it's this is the same band
• 20:57
  that brought you like, you know, dookie and insomnia.
• 21:00
  Nia can American Idiot. But then you listen to it and
• 21:03
  it's I've lost your mic. I've left you on the mic, but
• 21:05
  I'll keep going. So like it's the same, the same
• 21:08
  band that bought you all these different amazing albums and
• 21:12
  then you listen to it. And it's very Weak and kind of.
• 21:19
  nothing inspiring in there and and You know, they're phoning it
• 21:25
  in, you know, they're not trying hard.
• 21:27
  That's, that's that I think the thing that really in sent me
• 21:30
  when I listened to it and I think why he gave it such a bad
• 21:33
  negative review and bringing it back to your original point.
• 21:36
  The reason I brought this up in the first place, I think a
• 21:39
  review like that is useful to music fans because it's a
• 21:45
  basically it's a way of saying don't waste your time listening
• 21:47
  to this album. I've done the listening for you,
• 21:50
  trust me. You don't want to go there kind
• 21:52
  of thing. Yeah.
• 21:53
  Okay so yeah I don't I don't I don't disagree with music
• 21:58
  criticism broadly or people being critical for example
• 22:01
  because it's just talking about art, we should talk about is
• 22:04
  where everyone I think it's just more.
• 22:07
  I guess the bigger issue is well firstly I just want to get my
• 22:09
  controversial opinion out the way I think.
• 22:12
  Green Day's albums are all dreck.
• 22:14
  Get out of the way. Let's let's not.
• 22:17
  Oh no, let's back up a second. This.
• 22:23
  I love the. I like someone who has a
• 22:25
  different opinion. I just want to know why.
• 22:27
  So you, okay. You don't like dookie.
• 22:29
  You think American idiots horseshit?
• 22:31
  Why? This is?
• 22:33
  Why my opinion? I always like to say this, like
• 22:36
  my opinion isn't inherently worth something.
• 22:38
  I just, I just don't like that. Kind of pop, punk rock.
• 22:41
  So, when I was like it, when we were that age, when I think
• 22:45
  you're a similar age to me, you're probably about 30 late
• 22:47
  20s, something. Oh my God, I don't know. 28.
• 22:55
  But fuck demonstrate. He went straight for 30, man.
• 22:57
  Jesus is having two years. It's nothing but you can attack.
• 23:01
  Green Day, Not Me. Jesus Christ.
• 23:02
  Were similarly, let's see when it's like 2001.
• 23:07
  Yep. 2002. Green Day will quite big.
• 23:11
  I was, and I still am. I was like, I was a proper low
• 23:15
  wrong generation. Kid, I did, I hated everything?
• 23:19
  I just thought it was crap. I grew up on like Bob Marley,
• 23:22
  The Beatles. Bob Dylan blah.
• 23:23
  Blah and when I heard this device just like this is crap,
• 23:27
  this is quite like it was just really bad and it was then that
• 23:30
  it's like like understanding that there's a whole history of
• 23:33
  music, you know, going back hundreds of years.
• 23:35
  But even just popular music, let's say going back to the 60s
• 23:38
  or late 50s with music, that is actually like vibrant and
• 23:42
  colorful Dynamic and interesting and I just did not hear it on
• 23:45
  the radio that I'm now having since grown up.
• 23:47
  I can look back and there are tons of great albums from that
• 23:50
  era, but none of them were big. So, there's tons of music now
• 23:52
  that I can, Find due to the brilliant accessibility of the
• 23:55
  internet from around 2001 to 2006 or 7 which is brilliant but
• 24:00
  it's just not big stuff. So to me Green Day Blink-182 I
• 24:05
  don't know tons of those. I just have no interest in
• 24:08
  whatsoever. I always thought this is flat.
• 24:10
  An interesting boring and it look I'm not I'm not in any way
• 24:15
  claiming to be like an authority on music but this is let's bring
• 24:18
  this back around to people like Anthony van Tano and I don't
• 24:21
  think it's a personal problem with M, I think it's just the
• 24:24
  way that kind of People like to have.
• 24:29
  Like foot people on a pedestal. The fact that his opinion is
• 24:33
  somehow worth more than someone else on the street.
• 24:36
  I guess it's a product of him working hard on his channel.
• 24:38
  That's all great. But actually, I think we should
• 24:41
  move towards a world where we don't have these kind of taste
• 24:44
  makers and people who have these opinions.
• 24:46
  That's what I really. I mean, I personally try to
• 24:47
  avoid that kind of thing on my channel because I will frankly
• 24:50
  say if I hate something but I know I want to specify like I'm
• 24:53
  just some. Who the hell am I like?
• 24:56
  Who like seriously, who is Anthony front a know like he's
• 24:59
  an end. Hina.
• 25:00
  He gets tons of views because he's entertaining.
• 25:02
  He knows a bit about music great, but like he's not
• 25:05
  musician, which doesn't preclude him from having an opinion or
• 25:09
  from being able to productively talk about it but he's just some
• 25:12
  bloke. Like you're just some bloke.
• 25:14
  I'm just some bloke. We're all.
• 25:15
  Just some bloke and there's nothing inherent about why, his
• 25:19
  opinion should really particular particularly impact our
• 25:23
  listening skills. I think we should.
• 25:25
  I don't know, I kind of wish we were in a world where we could
• 25:28
  get beyond that a little bit. Actually.
• 25:32
  So are you going to say something?
• 25:32
  I didn't want to keep going because I could get it.
• 25:34
  Okay, I don't know. I think I lost my train of
• 25:41
  thought there a little bit, but I just think it is a bit of a
• 25:44
  shame that we do have a world, still where we do have,
• 25:49
  tastemakers because the kind of dominant Position of, you know,
• 25:55
  reviewers for like Rolling Stone magazine and stuff like that.
• 25:57
  They were tastemakers to a large extent and to some extent.
• 26:01
  They just kind of shamelessly followed a few Trends and
• 26:03
  pretended. They were there at the beginning
• 26:05
  and a lot of in a lot of other cases, they've actually
• 26:08
  massively negatively impacted the kind of critical reception
• 26:13
  more broadly and Commercial Success of bands, and scenes.
• 26:17
  And the fact that we've Not entirely moved beyond that when
• 26:21
  I think the internet could have we could have gotten beyond
• 26:25
  that. In a way I think is a great
• 26:26
  shame. I think it's much more
• 26:27
  productive and interesting. Yeah, like be honest, you hate a
• 26:30
  song or piece of music, like I will do that but it's much more
• 26:33
  interesting. This is back to why I do my
• 26:35
  podcast away. I do to be like, hey look, I
• 26:37
  know the kind of music. Do you like?
• 26:39
  And I love the kind of music you don't like, so why do you come
• 26:42
  on my podcast? And I'll suggest a few things
• 26:45
  that maybe you'll really like, and if you don't, that's fine,
• 26:47
  let's talk about it. Let's take the piss out of it.
• 26:49
  It lets, you know, just just chat, I think it's a bit more
• 26:52
  productive for someone to be like, hey, actually, I really
• 26:55
  enjoyed listening to these tracks.
• 26:56
  I've never heard of this band yet, maybe I'll give them
• 26:58
  another girl, but personally, I don't really get it.
• 27:01
  I mean, I could, I could do episodes about y, 8 X Y Zed
• 27:05
  song, So ever, but I don't know, it feels a bit, click Beatty as
• 27:08
  well. I think, which look, we all have
• 27:11
  to work within that world a little bit, you know, I'm not
• 27:13
  Beyond clickbait to some extent, but I think that kind of Yeah.
• 27:20
  Fake clickbait entertainment above info can be a little bit
• 27:26
  and that it in saying all this it's I'm not against Anthony
• 27:29
  fantana at all or other people, it's just, I don't know.
• 27:33
  I feel like I just watched his stuff and went like there's
• 27:36
  fine, don't quite get it but like power to him.
• 27:39
  It's more the general structure of putting one person's taste on
• 27:45
  a pedestal above. The story is just random people.
• 27:51
  Oh no, that's one question with regards to that because what
• 27:53
  you're saying, what you said within that speech was that, you
• 27:57
  know, well, who is this guy, you know what his credentials?
• 28:01
  Which is a fair point. So let's say it's not entirely
• 28:04
  that it did not even, it's not even nice.
• 28:06
  If it's absurd that we point to that point, though, like let's
• 28:09
  say, you take someone from the industry who is fully involved,
• 28:13
  who is successful. Let's say I don't know who would
• 28:16
  be a good example. Apple.
• 28:21
  He's like a really successful musician.
• 28:24
  He's got a lot of knowledge about the industry.
• 28:25
  They say, Paul McCartney sets up a podcast and starts reviewing
• 28:30
  modern music. Just for argument's sake, right?
• 28:33
  I wouldn't care about that either.
• 28:34
  I don't think anyone should be a bit like the point, wasn't.
• 28:37
  But your before I know that's not your overarching point but
• 28:40
  one of the points that you made was that who is this guy?
• 28:43
  Why should we take his opinion? Seriously?
• 28:45
  And I'm so okay, what? About musician.
• 28:47
  Who's been very successful in the industry has worked with
• 28:50
  lots of different you know, musicians over the years and has
• 28:54
  stayed relevant this whole time. If he gives an opinion is that
• 28:58
  worth anymore because he's involved in the industry or is
• 29:01
  it still the same? As is it still worth the same as
• 29:04
  Joe on the street? In terms of reviewing, and in
• 29:09
  terms of recommending, I think it's worth as much as anyone
• 29:12
  elses really. I mean, there's a slight caveat
• 29:15
  site because some people click in the same way, like, with
• 29:17
  food, like some people literally know nothing about food, and
• 29:19
  they'll serve you like a dish and you're like, this is like
• 29:22
  unseasoned overcooked krait like that.
• 29:25
  Like some people have bad taste, but the problem is that even
• 29:29
  people with bad taste, I don't to be like, hi course.
• 29:33
  Objective is for this, like, even people with terrible taste,
• 29:35
  can probably accurate accurately review for other people with
• 29:39
  terrible taste and the problem with with there's no accounting
• 29:42
  for tastes like, I think Green Day a crap.
• 29:44
  I did like this, get back to that and my girlfriend, my
• 29:48
  girlfriend screen day and I just hear it.
• 29:52
  You must have no taste. Of the influent.
• 30:02
  I mean he's one of the greats like he is possibly the greatest
• 30:05
  melodious that the very least in popular music and on that point,
• 30:11
  you know, the point of listening to his opinion would be hey this
• 30:15
  guy listen to this stuff and this is what he's into it shaped
• 30:19
  him at least partly into what he is as a musician.
• 30:22
  So I feel like there's something more productive there, but if
• 30:25
  you're just like an official official professional
• 30:29
  tastemaker, I'm not really sure. Sure.
• 30:31
  And this isn't to it's not to drag people like Anthony Fontana
• 30:35
  down at all. I think it's more.
• 30:37
  I should probably have rephrased it to elevate everyone else up
• 30:41
  because I have loads of friends who either are or are not
• 30:45
  musicians, who can just like, I talked to him about music and
• 30:49
  like it's just amazing. Like, I learned so much just
• 30:52
  like, from talking to them. I think it's super productive.
• 30:55
  I think they've got interesting opinions and like, Hey, listen
• 30:57
  to this all and you perspective on something I do already like
• 31:00
  or don't like And, you know, it's just, I don't know, I get
• 31:05
  at the end of the day, the reason Anthony Fontana is big is
• 31:07
  because he's put the hard work in.
• 31:08
  And that's how you that's realistically, how you do it.
• 31:11
  But I think people are well-served remembering that.
• 31:13
  So again, it's not dissing him or anyone like that.
• 31:15
  All he got to his position, through hard work, through being
• 31:19
  entertaining, whatever that does not make him a taste maker.
• 31:23
  That doesn't mean you should put any more stock in his opinion,
• 31:25
  but I think a lot of people do and I'm not saying everyone does
• 31:29
  and I'm not saying there isn't the kind of Volleyball.
• 31:32
  You know, I think, I think a lot of people do think that the way
• 31:35
  he structures that is, is baby why people respect his opinion.
• 31:41
  Because if he would just be like, serve another term shit
• 31:45
  don't bother that, you know, that would be one thing, but he
• 31:48
  actually kind of strips it part from, you know, as I discussed
• 31:52
  before, like every different side of things, the production,
• 31:55
  the instrumentation, the performance, the lyrics.
• 31:58
  I mean, you know, I'd I can't to my mind.
• 32:01
  Think of many reviewers out there that have done that and
• 32:04
  you know what, there are many reviewers actually on YouTube.
• 32:06
  Specifically like laid-back being one that just listen to
• 32:14
  the track and they give a very and this is nothing against
• 32:16
  laid-back. I really like the guy, but when
• 32:19
  you compare it to Anthony Ventana is it's very strict
• 32:22
  back. It's just of a kind of like a
• 32:23
  quick like, okay. I like the vibe.
• 32:25
  Yeah, it's all right. Yeah, but and then that's it.
• 32:28
  And I feel like that by comparison Is is kind of less of
• 32:33
  an insightful review less of a review that I would maybe take
• 32:37
  seriously, in comparison to someone like Anthony fantana.
• 32:40
  You know what I mean? Yeah.
• 32:42
  Oh, yeah, those, I'm not saying don't respect his opinion, or
• 32:44
  his craft, or the way he put things together.
• 32:46
  Like, certainly some, you know, some people realistically just
• 32:49
  the way the world works and more articulate like he is then other
• 32:52
  people the more entertaining. I think the point isn't we
• 32:55
  should do, he he isn't doing a great job or they his videos
• 32:59
  aren't great or his opinions aren't well-formed.
• 33:01
  It's Just it really is just that.
• 33:04
  I don't know. Maybe it's because I'm a, I'm a
• 33:07
  dirty. Stinking communist kind of
• 33:09
  socialist, dude. But I'm not actually communist.
• 33:11
  Maybe one socialist, but it's like, everyone.
• 33:13
  I don't know. I kind of its kind of like the
• 33:14
  democratization of taste as well.
• 33:16
  I say, like let's not Elevate these people to these like
• 33:20
  positions of like they are the tastemaker.
• 33:22
  That's really what it comes down to.
• 33:23
  And I have a similar opinion about even just like, if you
• 33:26
  come back to Paul, Paul McCartney about rock, stars,
• 33:28
  rock stars are just people and we shouldn't put them on this
• 33:33
  pedestal, just because they're brilliant musicians, which a lot
• 33:36
  of them are who are worthy of respect in that way, that
• 33:38
  doesn't make them above us there richer the famous, whatever, but
• 33:44
  I think it's a very unproductive.
• 33:45
  I think it's comes back into the hole to bring back around to
• 33:50
  like being a YouTuber. I think there's some very big
• 33:54
  YouTubers who I would say a kind of rock stars.
• 33:58
  And there is some other YouTubers who are even bigger or
• 34:01
  just as big as those who aren't rockstars.
• 34:03
  And I think there's something about that Rockstar relationship
• 34:07
  with a fan base, which I think is a bit unproductive.
• 34:09
  So, if I think a lot, I watch a lot like, political stuff as
• 34:12
  well and on YouTube. And you got someone like David
• 34:15
  pakman, who is like, left wing Social Democrat kind of American
• 34:20
  dude, who's been doing YouTube politics for as long as anyone
• 34:25
  else? I mean, he's huge, he's bigger
• 34:26
  than most people, but he is not at all.
• 34:28
  Rock star, he is, he's quite quite academic, firstly, but
• 34:34
  he's also quite modest. I think, in a way, he does
• 34:37
  things and talks about things. He's not got this kind of
• 34:41
  relationship with his fan base, which encourages that encourages
• 34:46
  encourages, or even allows a sort of parasocial relationship
• 34:51
  and I think he's brilliant. I think he's amazing.
• 34:54
  I think he's one of the one of the best political YouTube's if
• 34:57
  not the best. Just out there.
• 34:58
  It's a shame we don't have that kind of thing for like a British
• 35:02
  politics. I think is brilliant and there
• 35:04
  are other YouTubers who are like maybe a quarter of his size who
• 35:08
  I do think are a lot more rock star in their relationship,
• 35:12
  particularly with their fan base and I think sometimes it's not
• 35:16
  even the YouTubers fault. It's just the way that fanbases
• 35:20
  work. But I do think I do think
• 35:22
  there's something around there that we should be a little bit
• 35:24
  like not suspicious of them individually, but Use of that
• 35:28
  kind of community or relationship, and I'm not saying
• 35:33
  that again, Anthony Fontana. I'm not saying he cultivate that
• 35:37
  relationship, maybe he does. I don't know, I'm not into the
• 35:39
  fan base or community and of to know, but I do think, I mean,
• 35:43
  we've also it's a bit of a mean, we all know.
• 35:45
  Like there are fantastic fan. Boys out there.
• 35:47
  Who are a little bit. Insane.
• 35:49
  Who generally do think like his opinion?
• 35:51
  Is like gospel. Yeah, yeah.
• 35:53
  And yeah, my opinion here, my stance on this is popped
• 35:58
  Possibly slightly ill articulated but it's quite
• 36:01
  particular and I'm not trying to say it, so it's very nuanced,
• 36:05
  but I just don't want to be taken in a very straightforward
• 36:07
  way about it because I think, you know, he does a good job of
• 36:12
  being entertaining and he's articulate.
• 36:14
  And the key does a good job of breaking things down but that
• 36:17
  doesn't Elevate him into a position that some people have
• 36:20
  put him in. Its, I don't know, I'm not
• 36:22
  trying to shit on the guy individually.
• 36:23
  He does a great job nor am I trying to shit on his fans?
• 36:27
  I We can all fall into those kind of productive relationships
• 36:32
  with people. We've never met.
• 36:34
  Does that make sense? Yeah.
• 36:36
  Yeah so yeah that's kind of where I sit I do I do kind of
• 36:40
  think though like I don't know there may be coming back I
• 36:43
  almost didn't hide it before but I will admit like if you know
• 36:47
  nothing about cooking and you tell your food review, I don't
• 36:51
  think many food critics fucking clueless like to I mean I don't
• 36:55
  whatever tons of Music critics if you don't know what a fucking
• 36:59
  major scale is, you don't know what Tom reverses Dynamics is.
• 37:03
  You don't know like what functional Harmony.
• 37:06
  Maybe you shouldn't be reviewing certain types of music.
• 37:09
  Well, maybe she shouldn't really be reviewing music because you
• 37:13
  probably don't have a bloody clue what you're talking about.
• 37:15
  Unfortunately like yeah you may be and I'm not saying he doesn't
• 37:17
  doesn't I don't know enough of what it does to me.
• 37:20
  Yeah. And again I'm not it's not about
• 37:21
  him particularly but sometimes I've read so many music reviews
• 37:26
  in papers and magazines or online, you know, on you know,
• 37:31
  like website like proper like websites, you know, whether it's
• 37:35
  rolling stone or Crocker websites, not not that crappy.
• 37:41
  YouTube stuff, proper ones once you can actually listen to or
• 37:45
  read. No, no, I mean, I mean, when I
• 37:48
  say proper I mean like Rolling Stone is proper in the way that
• 37:50
  I guess I'm saying is like, they're paying their Journal
• 37:52
  institutional. Yeah.
• 37:54
  Yeah. Someone got paid to write this.
• 37:55
  I sometimes read. I'm like, soccer Peter write
• 37:57
  this and this this naturist it's just not like it's not just I
• 38:01
  disagree with it but they're seeing things that are literally
• 38:03
  straightforwardly incorrect because they don't know.
• 38:06
  They're talking about when it comes to music.
• 38:07
  Similarly, like, if I sat down and quiet, we're about where we
• 38:11
  took it about. Will give me some examples.
• 38:13
  Oh, I can't give you any specific examples, but I've
• 38:16
  read. I mean how many fucking it's
• 38:19
  five? How much I hate it.
• 38:20
  Sometimes I have read lots and lots of like, you know, reviews
• 38:22
  and stuff it. But in magazines like Rolling
• 38:25
  Stone. Like is there.
• 38:26
  Yeah. Or inaccurate inaccuracies.
• 38:28
  Yes. There's some people which use
• 38:30
  the word key change. As I do this song has like a
• 38:32
  really great key change and I'm listening to is like no there's
• 38:34
  literally no key changes are all.
• 38:35
  It's all that. Completely diet, oh wow said a
• 38:38
  thing. It happens all the time because
• 38:42
  that's bad though that it happens in a magazine like
• 38:44
  that-that, someone's get fired or something like that.
• 38:47
  Shirley well I mean like this. No like what's the standard?
• 38:51
  There's no standard that has to be a standard.
• 38:53
  Well, this should be I agree but there isn't and there never has
• 38:56
  been. I don't know if I agree with
• 38:59
  that. I agree the world.
• 39:03
  We should have standards and things but they were fortunate.
• 39:05
  Reality is the next Really has been, and there's no one.
• 39:07
  There's no, like, like official School of Standards, which says,
• 39:13
  got it wrong. No, no, no, it's okay to get
• 39:15
  things wrong, but I think in a music magazine that's been
• 39:18
  around for as long as Rolling Stone.
• 39:20
  If there are authors in there, that don't know.
• 39:22
  The difference is between, you know, pictures, keychains
• 39:25
  changes, things like that. But basic music theory, then
• 39:30
  they don't really have any business criticizing reviewing
• 39:33
  the music. I think that's kind of a basic
• 39:35
  Think we can probably all agree on.
• 39:37
  I agree. That is my point but I guess the
• 39:39
  wider reality is that it doesn't matter, like I hate it.
• 39:43
  Oh yeah, these people don't have a clue.
• 39:45
  It's what I was saying all along is people literally have no idea
• 39:48
  what they're talking about and they get paid for this shit.
• 39:50
  What we're going to do though is Joe I love, I love your your
• 39:57
  polarizing opinions. I want to I want to get more of
• 40:00
  them so I'm just going to deliberately you touched a
• 40:04
  little bit on pop soap. Punk music.
• 40:06
  But I just want to get your kind of I'm going to go through
• 40:09
  different genres now with you and I just want to get your kind
• 40:12
  of whatever comes to mind. So here's your chance to kind
• 40:15
  of, say your thoughts, firstly on pop, punk, what your thoughts
• 40:20
  on it as the genre as a whole. So, so I wouldn't, I want to
• 40:24
  preempted by like guys, if I find anyone who loves you
• 40:28
  genres, I generally, don't mean to hide.
• 40:31
  I'm I'm generally one of those weird people, if someone wants
• 40:33
  to shit on the music, I liked. I love hearing it.
• 40:35
  I think it's Hilarious. So in that Spirit pop punk is
• 40:41
  just like petulant immaturity a bunch of idiots who don't really
• 40:45
  know their instruments. They don't know how to play.
• 40:47
  The problem is sometimes a pop punk is that some of them
• 40:50
  clearly know how to play. But they kind of effect.
• 40:53
  This kind of incompetence so I think someone like Sum 41, can
• 40:57
  clearly play a bit better than Green Day.
• 40:59
  Only. There's this effect station at
• 41:02
  times. I think it's the idea that it
• 41:06
  Cool to be by that one's instrument and maybe because I'm
• 41:10
  a massive nerd. I don't think that's cool.
• 41:12
  All I think it's cool to be good at your instrument.
• 41:14
  I think it's cool to lock yourself in your room for eight
• 41:17
  hours at a time as a time until you can play cleanly.
• 41:20
  If you're not going to do that, get off the stage Sip and so you
• 41:23
  think that the pop-punk bands are kind of like messy like even
• 41:26
  in their in their production. So because I don't know that
• 41:29
  I've never listened to sort of a Green Day record and thought.
• 41:32
  Hmm, this sounds messy or not. Thatís enough or something.
• 41:37
  So there's a, there's a few, I mean, pop and quite broad, like
• 41:40
  I think live there a bit sloppy and it's quite easy.
• 41:43
  Yeah, in a studio but, yeah, that the point about sloppiness
• 41:47
  isn't it's not necessarily about sloppiness.
• 41:49
  So much has. This is a personal thing.
• 41:51
  This is a very personal thing that were about to say is I hate
• 41:56
  someone pick up a guitar and every song has been doing in a
• 41:59
  like no, don't do that. Just I hate it.
• 42:02
  Since just don't understand. I hate I don't mind it doing for
• 42:05
  like dying. Mix in a certain part of the
• 42:07
  song but it's, it's like songwriting laziness.
• 42:10
  It's just, it's just really obnoxious.
• 42:12
  Like, you could pick up a guitar and do that within a year of
• 42:15
  playing it. So if you've been playing for 20
• 42:17
  years, why you still doing it? Why don't you just try a little
• 42:20
  bit harder. So, you know, there are some
• 42:24
  punk bands who have a real sophistication to their
• 42:29
  songwriting and I hate to be really boring because it is a
• 42:33
  very boring opinion, but the Clash a Very good, for example,
• 42:38
  that undeniably punk, but these are guys who are deeply invested
• 42:43
  in a wide range of musical styles, and who bring that to
• 42:47
  their songwriting. And you can do that and still
• 42:49
  stay authentically. Punk, I'm often told that liking
• 42:53
  saying that you like the clash as an example of liking, a punk
• 42:56
  band doesn't count because it's the clash.
• 42:59
  And I accounts probably great. I think it doesn't count because
• 43:02
  everyone likes The Clash. It doesn't really matter like
• 43:04
  there. They kind of Get Beyond Punk.
• 43:07
  So, you know, I gotta say this, this whole concept of lava
• 43:09
  doesn't count, like who the fuck is this?
• 43:11
  Like, goes back to what you were saying about that?
• 43:13
  There's no, like stand. Yeah, sorry.
• 43:14
  It's like yeah, it's that bad. But honestly, I think they say
• 43:22
  facetiously, but I think it's, I don't know, it's a point.
• 43:24
  Well, taken some time because it's like, you know, some people
• 43:26
  don't like hard rock but they love Queen site.
• 43:28
  Well, it doesn't kind of count even though Queen could be hard
• 43:30
  rock because it's just Queen. They just an institution and
• 43:33
  Clash a kind of like that. It's like well it's just The
• 43:35
  Clash like they're a bit. Yeah I agree with that.
• 43:37
  Yeah. Because like that their wrote
• 43:39
  their own genre. They like it can you think of
• 43:41
  any other band sounds like The Clash or queen but I can't think
• 43:45
  of any at all. Like exactly that they've
• 43:48
  created their own genre almost. Yeah.
• 43:51
  Anyway. And I think the best bands do
• 43:52
  that. Yeah.
• 43:53
  Hmm. Okay.
• 43:55
  Okay, let's keep digging. What else do you want me to shit
• 43:58
  on? What do you think about new
• 44:01
  metal? It's just it should never be in
• 44:06
  part of my listening. I heard bits of you know, I've
• 44:08
  heard bits of it and she thought not into it.
• 44:11
  I couldn't even say a particularly hate.
• 44:12
  It was never commercially big enough for me to be exposed to
• 44:16
  it to the point where I would hate it.
• 44:17
  You know what I mean? And all other that's pretty
• 44:21
  fucking controversy. At one point bands like Limp
• 44:24
  Biscuit in corn one huge like a part that's like like one or two
• 44:28
  albums and then I It kind of wasn't tons and tons.
• 44:32
  I don't know. Maybe there was, I never listen
• 44:34
  to the radio very much but I think especially now they really
• 44:38
  they kind of burn brightly commercially for a short while
• 44:42
  and then kind of burnout. They really did become super,
• 44:44
  super uncool to everyone. Even in like 2009, maybe it
• 44:48
  really just completely like, snuffed out like a candle.
• 44:51
  So I never had that, like, long-term exposure, maybe is a
• 44:54
  little bit later in 2009, but I never had that long-term
• 44:56
  exposure as I did with Green Day.
• 45:00
  Like, Green Day. Like they just keep going and I
• 45:03
  think you can just every new generations.
• 45:05
  I always had Green Day again. I'm like this, this fucking band
• 45:07
  again. Jesus Christ wears new battle
• 45:09
  there. Yeah, I probably would dislike
• 45:11
  it to the same extent as is Green Day or like pop punk
• 45:14
  stuff. Hey, what do you think about
• 45:18
  jazz fusion or Progressive Jazz experimental jazz?
• 45:23
  That's a big genre. I can really like a lot of it.
• 45:28
  I can really like, guess it's such a big genre that I don't
• 45:34
  know what you would include and what you wouldn't but I guess
• 45:36
  you know. For everyone from like
• 45:39
  mahavishnu Orchestra through like Return to Forever.
• 45:42
  I can listen to and enjoy it's not my favorite music in the
• 45:45
  world. Jeff Beck is a guitarist.
• 45:47
  Who I've always been a big fan of it here.
• 45:48
  Like a big jazz fusion phase. I'm into that more contemporary
• 45:52
  bands, snarky Puppy. I don't necessarily put them on
• 45:55
  a lot, but I can definitely enjoy you.
• 45:57
  You put them on and just enjoy it as like just by standard as
• 46:01
  you go, all the way back to the classics.
• 46:02
  Like I don't Miles Davis. Bitches Brew.
• 46:05
  It doesn't click with me as much on On that feels like a really
• 46:10
  big hard to kind of get to grips with album, but most judge as is
• 46:16
  not really. My thing.
• 46:18
  Most jazz is a little bit beyond me, and I say that as a musician
• 46:22
  who, you know, try to get like learn jazz a bit and realize,
• 46:25
  it's not really my thing. So I feel like it's jazz is
• 46:29
  different enough. It's like a totally different
• 46:31
  family of music for the most part in jazz fusion, is kind of
• 46:33
  a bit more Jazz plus raw but jazz is different to popular
• 46:37
  music. Zurich as like classical is.
• 46:40
  I think it's a, you know, if anything you got like a few big
• 46:43
  families of music classical popular folk and in Burnout
• 46:49
  include like all folk traditions and then Jazz.
• 46:52
  And I kind of more like the folk and popular music things and
• 46:56
  classical. I like Beethoven Jazz I like bit
• 46:58
  of but they're not really where I feel at home.
• 47:00
  So I don't know. I wouldn't feel comfortable
• 47:03
  saying more than what I've already said.
• 47:06
  Thoughts on Mumble rap. This is something I hear a lot
• 47:11
  about but I only really know it from the memes.
• 47:14
  I don't think I've ever listened to but I've never really
• 47:17
  knowingly, listen to it. Maybe I have definitely heard on
• 47:20
  the radio, definitely, never since I never listen to the
• 47:23
  radio, that's another thing I hate I'll shit on the radio.
• 47:25
  Oh okay, shut the radio then. What's wrong with ready?
• 47:28
  Music, pop music that didn't exist.
• 47:30
  I didn't expect this to tell you to be hating on things.
• 47:32
  It's nothing to do with the music necessarily of.
• 47:34
  I just, I think it's that fake Charisma that the The DJ's
• 47:39
  always have to cultivate. So if there's a song on like
• 47:42
  even if it's something I dislike, it's all whatever.
• 47:44
  But then it's like, hey guys, welcome back.
• 47:47
  I just know, I don't want to listen to that because again,
• 47:50
  it's not their fault. They have to kind of keep this
• 47:53
  going. This like fake energy
• 47:55
  relentlessly and it just really is like, chalk on fingernails,
• 48:01
  to me. Even like the more like radio
• 48:02
  for. I think it's just an absolute
• 48:05
  ball like snooze Fest and I Yeah, I'd say this is a nerd
• 48:09
  myself, but I listen to it, I think like, why would I not just
• 48:13
  read a book about what you're talking about?
• 48:17
  It's, you know, it's audience is like retirees who need to put
• 48:23
  the volume up very high. And for people to speak very
• 48:25
  slowly and clearly, I will just read a book if I want to read
• 48:28
  about this. Thank you or learn about this.
• 48:30
  I don't see the point of radio, for, I was able to the Stein in
• 48:34
  that regard, but I was not expecting.
• 48:38
  The best but I'm loving. This is hilarious.
• 48:42
  Okay? Any other genres or anything
• 48:44
  just about music in general that you hate any particularly
• 48:47
  controversial opinions. You have now's your time,
• 48:51
  controversial opinions, maybe like Rolling Stones, pretty
• 48:58
  overrated. I guess, that's those people say
• 49:01
  that. They're all right.
• 49:03
  I thought thought you might be a big Rolling Stone Son, but you
• 49:06
  sound like, you're probably just agree either.
• 49:08
  I mean if it's for me you know I this is one of the reasons why
• 49:12
  I'm like this because I like it when someone has a controversial
• 49:16
  opinion or something different to offer to the table because
• 49:20
  let you know, at the end of the people take this stuff way too
• 49:23
  seriously, you know, I got like, for instance, I might release
• 49:26
  these clips and then people would be like how can the guys
• 49:28
  say that? How dare he?
• 49:30
  And it's like it's a pissin opinion, it's not like I've
• 49:33
  turned around and said it's the more now everyone must have this
• 49:36
  opinion. How You know, it's just an
• 49:39
  opinion who cares. That's why it's funny that
• 49:41
  that's a cute that's a really good point because I did a video
• 49:44
  essay if a few months ago and I've started doing those like
• 49:48
  what makes this song work and the first one was a Bob Dylan
• 49:51
  song. The second one was a song by the
• 49:53
  Dire Straits Brothers in Arms. I love the song but I start the
• 49:56
  episode of the video essay by saying, Are the Dire Straits.
• 50:02
  The most boring band of all time like adding the least cool band
• 50:07
  ever. And I think the answer is if not
• 50:09
  definitely. Yes is probably yes.
• 50:12
  I mean they're deeply deeply deeply, uncool anyway.
• 50:16
  Why hundred expand expand that before we go on?
• 50:18
  I mean, you've just challenged Dire Straits continue, please,
• 50:24
  I'm not even seen object. There's no such thing as
• 50:25
  objective. Cool.
• 50:26
  Joy means I'm not saying that, I'm just saying, like, in the
• 50:28
  common imagination, you know, they're the band who Like neon
• 50:32
  colored headbands, sweat bands, who like sing like country rock
• 50:36
  at the height of punk, you know, it was 1977 or 78.
• 50:39
  When their debut album came out. They, they sounded like a bomb
• 50:42
  from 10 years previously or even further they were never cool.
• 50:46
  Deeply deeply uncool like in the common imagination and is
• 50:50
  nothing wrong with that. So I did this video essay about
• 50:52
  why they're a great band. Why Brothers in Arms is a
• 50:55
  brilliant song. Will you take a nice?
• 50:57
  The whole time, though? I think deadly serious.
• 51:00
  It's just open. Up with the simple fact that
• 51:02
  they're not very cool and that's perfect.
• 51:03
  So, this is your attempt to defend them then.
• 51:06
  Well, it wasn't even defending them.
• 51:07
  It's just I just thought it was commonly acknowledged fact, any
• 51:11
  way people lost, if not a few other comments on this, what's
• 51:15
  the worst comments you got? Come on, share them, I don't
• 51:18
  know. I think it was actually on a
• 51:19
  faith. I posted it to Facebook on some
• 51:21
  some group or something and so on, which just clearly hadn't
• 51:25
  watched it because they're like, What's this young lad all?
• 51:27
  I'm sure he'll go and listen to his edge here and it was It's
• 51:30
  kind of stones up Boomers or something.
• 51:32
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 51:33
  I mean like properties. Yeah.
• 51:35
  And look the point is Some bands are cook, uncool, and sometimes
• 51:40
  a cool. I'm not saying like from an
• 51:41
  objective standpoint but we know like instinctively if I'm
• 51:44
  listening to Abba and I think a Borough great band like we know
• 51:48
  that that uncool. What.
• 51:50
  Whoa whoa whoa, what's uncool. My a Barabbas.
• 51:53
  Great and I know you've been silly like the not, oh my God, I
• 51:57
  love, I love her. But I think cool in the common
• 52:02
  perception. Mainstream deception is
• 52:04
  definitely a thing and we all know it like it.
• 52:07
  Okay. Jacob, Jacob.
• 52:09
  What is cool exact. I'm not I'm telling you.
• 52:12
  I mean in your opinion. What is like the conventional
• 52:17
  call in music? I don't know.
• 52:19
  Like I don't think it's a single version of it, but I think we
• 52:22
  instinctively know it's like hey guys you know, big fun at the
• 52:25
  Beach Boys. People are like, what is this?
• 52:28
  Something slightly Goofy and uncool about them a like, yeah,
• 52:30
  they're cheesy. Pop.
• 52:31
  We are willing to listen to them at like weddings but they're
• 52:33
  uncool, like, where is it feel like, you know, I'm a big fan.
• 52:36
  Led Zeppelin at least cooler. They're kind of bit more Swagger
• 52:39
  if we talk about like hard rock. And that's more what we're on
• 52:42
  about is like having the kind of an edge to you Swagger a way
• 52:47
  that you hold yourself or compose yourself that kind of
• 52:49
  thing. I don't know.
• 52:50
  It's potentially the, you know, there it's a social socially
• 52:54
  constructed fake thing, but we can still It's a point to it.
• 53:00
  And we know what is cool, and what is not cool.
• 53:02
  I mean, personally, I will listen to tons of.
• 53:07
  I don't know, like progressive rock and I'll say, like, this is
• 53:09
  so cool. Obviously, I know by like
• 53:11
  mainstream definite. It's not cool, but I'm just
• 53:13
  saying, there is Hussein progressive.
• 53:16
  Rock isn't cool. I mean I'm coming.
• 53:18
  I totally agree. Is genre of Chad's and handsome
• 53:24
  people, that's all I can say. Cool person's Choice.
• 53:31
  That's yeah, progressive rock is a genre.
• 53:32
  I really like, but even then I love to take the piss out of it.
• 53:36
  I mean, it's a bunch of my nerds, to dress up in capes and
• 53:40
  sing about the hills. What is this?
• 53:43
  What am I listening to? This is a good idea.
• 53:47
  I mean, it was a good idea. You have to take so much acid to
• 53:50
  think. I'm so glad it Jen put us in
• 53:56
  touch, but Like even progressive rock.
• 54:02
  Look is a genre, I love but I will not just take the piss out
• 54:07
  of it, but I just don't think there's much good past a certain
• 54:10
  date. I just think I love the first
• 54:11
  generation stuff and then it kind of becomes a little bit in
• 54:14
  bread and it just starts to sound a little bit like it's
• 54:16
  treading the same grounds a bit so Dream, Theater, my favorite
• 54:24
  bands. For me I'm just this is for me,
• 54:32
  that's all I'm saying. I just listened to and I think
• 54:35
  for them I think once you get to a certain point with progressive
• 54:38
  rock, you lose Allah makes a big difference.
• 54:40
  It's a bit different in the the progressive metal though.
• 54:44
  Yes. Yeah.
• 54:44
  There is that I think the lines are like, you know, there's not
• 54:48
  like a solid line between the but I don't entirely disagree.
• 54:51
  I think I tend to disagree with you on that one because you
• 54:56
  know, like the obvious They but they take massive inspiration
• 55:00
  from bands like rush and stuff like that, but when you listen
• 55:02
  to them, they're straight up metal.
• 55:03
  Like that's all obviously. When Mike Portnoy was in the
• 55:05
  band. It was though really shifted
• 55:08
  more towards like thrash metal is in some elements for kind of
• 55:12
  almost like death Maori. You know there was I don't
• 55:15
  entirely disagree. But I mean if you listen to like
• 55:17
  read by King Crimson from 1974, then everyone would call that
• 55:21
  progressive rock. Yes, that's progressive metal in
• 55:24
  another way. It's very like ahead of its
• 55:25
  time. It's not it isn't kind of
• 55:27
  thrush. Metal.
• 55:28
  But it's still, it's very like a, it's heavy, in fact, way,
• 55:32
  heavier than most things that we would call like 80s.
• 55:35
  Sure, British heavy metal. I think the poor thing is, hey,
• 55:39
  look, do you want to talk about genres genres again, social
• 55:41
  conventions, they're there to kind of label things.
• 55:43
  There's no real hard definition between wander on or another so
• 55:47
  I don't know it. But my point was my point about
• 55:50
  for me personally. The shift away.
• 55:53
  The reason I start to like progressive, rock less.
• 55:56
  Once we get past, I don't know, like the mid to late.
• 55:59
  Seventies. I feel like they it's a real
• 56:03
  loss of eccentricity like Dream Theater a progressive in many
• 56:09
  ways but what they don't do that, you know, the first
• 56:12
  generation of progressive rock is do.
• 56:16
  They kind of less, obviously a bunch of weirdos, and I think I
• 56:18
  missed that. Does that make sense like
• 56:20
  they're cut? Then nerdy weirdos.
• 56:22
  But they're not like, we're going to dress up and keep
• 56:24
  something about dragons, like, whilst high on acid weirdo,
• 56:27
  which I think is the kind of weirdo I want in my progressive
• 56:29
  rock. And I think I'm not being
• 56:32
  facetious. I think there's something really
• 56:33
  lost in that kind of eccentricity.
• 56:35
  It's a very British thing as well.
• 56:37
  I got to say, actually, I can't believe I'm gonna do this one of
• 56:42
  my favorite bands, but I do agree with a point that yours
• 56:45
  see. Dream Theater.
• 56:46
  I love Dream Theater, but as far as if we're talking personality,
• 56:52
  they are all. They were all music students
• 56:54
  from Berklee school of music that study there and it's like
• 56:59
  sometimes especially some of their songs are just Are we just
• 57:04
  trying to see where ever the competition?
• 57:06
  We're trying to see what we can do with this and blah blah blah
• 57:09
  and I I think there's always a room for that in music but I
• 57:14
  don't think you should ever deviate from from, you know,
• 57:17
  being created that working for the song like large Oracle is
• 57:20
  used to set up that. Yeah.
• 57:21
  Okay. Look he's not the ones best
• 57:23
  drummer but one thing that I think we can all agree on that
• 57:26
  Allah has already said, was that he always plays for the song
• 57:29
  that should always be your kind of mindset, don't play for
• 57:33
  yourself, playful. And so and I don't know when
• 57:36
  whenever you think of like iconic drum beats at least for
• 57:39
  Metallica like You always, you always do.
• 57:43
  Think about that certain song, stick out to mind.
• 57:45
  Even though they might be simple as hell, anyone can play them
• 57:48
  like a five-year-old kicked play them.
• 57:49
  Like, it doesn't matter, they still iconic.
• 57:51
  But then there's other bands that have like, really technical
• 57:53
  drums, but they didn't play for the song and, you know,
• 57:56
  ultimately they're not as well, remembered.
• 57:58
  So, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
• 58:00
  I totally agree. Which is why I will always
• 58:01
  defend Ringo Starr, like yak and not the most technical trouble.
• 58:04
  But man, I don't know, they work, the drum beats always
• 58:07
  work. It's a good sound.
• 58:08
  That's what I don't get, I don't get that.
• 58:12
  Like, I think it's the definition of the phrase in
• 58:16
  music, at least less is more like, and some in some of his
• 58:19
  drum. Beats were actually pretty
• 58:20
  though. Some of his drum fills.
• 58:22
  Yeah, he's pretty damn sick to be honest, I think, I think
• 58:25
  people compare him as a songwriter and a singer, too
• 58:28
  George Paul and John. And then it's like, well,
• 58:31
  alright, fair enough. Obviously he wasn't as good,
• 58:33
  but, you know, he's a dick. They kept him in the band for a
• 58:36
  reason. Like they didn't have to, in a
• 58:37
  way. But like, I'm sure they didn't
• 58:39
  just do it because they were friends like, I think his
• 58:41
  chemistry from its chemistry if you to take him out of the band,
• 58:45
  it wouldn't be the Beatles, sometimes it's just like that,
• 58:48
  you know? I mean it's and that's why, you
• 58:50
  know, like when Led Zeppelin's drum a diet on bottom, I mean I
• 58:54
  think that was probably more because it was their friend and
• 58:56
  personal and they felt like that was adjusted room a kind of an
• 58:59
  end to the band but like and every man is different, you
• 59:03
  know, like Alice in Chains kept going without Lane Stanley which
• 59:08
  Must have been a really tough decision and they've made it
• 59:11
  work. But it's it's not easy.
• 59:13
  You know, Nirvana. Ended, could anyone have really
• 59:16
  replaced Kurt Cobain there might have been people that could have
• 59:18
  no. Like there might be people that
• 59:20
  could sing similar or offer something to the band, but it
• 59:24
  wouldn't be the same band and through.
• 59:27
  It's always about the essence of man, isn't it?
• 59:29
  Lets the air that is true. It's true because you some bands
• 59:32
  go through the motions and they just churn people through
• 59:35
  constantly. Oh yeah, yeah, that's weird.
• 59:38
  Like Distance Megadeth recently fired their bassist again.
• 59:44
  They they love sin for like the third time or whatever.
• 59:47
  And I mean, like whatever doesn't it doesn't really matter
• 59:51
  but for me I always felt like in that band.
• 59:57
  It was always Mustaine and ellefson.
• 59:59
  I like the hard about and everyone else, you know,
• 1:00:01
  obviously as you say, it's a riddle, Robin door policy just
• 1:00:04
  yet everyone in here in that in that.
• 1:00:06
  But like after I'd say the first 10 years of that band was very
• 1:00:12
  much that's Mega Beth and then after that it just became
• 1:00:15
  whatever. I don't know just that and this
• 1:00:18
  is a trend. A lot of I know we're getting
• 1:00:21
  into specifics about Metal but metal is a very interesting
• 1:00:23
  genre actually because they are sweat every band.
• 1:00:27
  Metal seems to follow the same thing where like their first
• 1:00:30
  couple of albums of the or like give you a couple of examples.
• 1:00:33
  So, Metallica Children of Bodom and Megadeth you take their
• 1:00:38
  first four albums. Excellent, brilliant, fantastic,
• 1:00:43
  right. And then after that, I'm not
• 1:00:45
  saying that their music is bad, but there's a noticeable shift
• 1:00:49
  where they go mainstream and suddenly, it's like the music is
• 1:00:53
  never the same. It's never as good.
• 1:00:55
  It, never reaches that Peaks and it was at before them.
• 1:00:58
  Yeah, I think there's something to think in metal in particular
• 1:01:02
  because you have to bring so much energy to it.
• 1:01:04
  And I think your first few albums, if you're like one of
• 1:01:08
  those like great bands, you're probably bringing something
• 1:01:11
  fresh and new to it. And then that kind of energy
• 1:01:15
  could probably only be sustained for a limited amount of period.
• 1:01:17
  I mean, like, everything they do is energetic, like stage
• 1:01:20
  performance, like the physicality of the way, they
• 1:01:22
  play their instruments. I mean, you know, we all know
• 1:01:24
  that like deer, you know, there are metal.
• 1:01:27
  Players who it's taken physically a massive toll on
• 1:01:30
  their bodies because like, they're basically doing like
• 1:01:33
  full body workout all the time whilst probably drunk or high.
• 1:01:37
  It's just, it really takes a massive tool in your body.
• 1:01:40
  So there's just the physical reality as well just like, you
• 1:01:43
  know, I think once the freshness is gone, they probably do seek
• 1:01:47
  out that kind of commercial thing a bit more, which is fine,
• 1:01:50
  nothing against that and sometimes it works.
• 1:01:52
  But I think people will always look back to the earliest days
• 1:01:55
  and thing like where did that go and say?
• 1:01:56
  Well, How long can you sustain that for, you know, how long can
• 1:01:59
  a football player sustained like like top end performance?
• 1:02:03
  Like it's not the exact same thing but there's a lot of burn
• 1:02:06
  out there. You know, it's going to happen.
• 1:02:08
  Inevitably yeah. Like I mean I look at band like
• 1:02:12
  Slayer I mean they've recently retired, which was very
• 1:02:15
  interesting because it's not often you hear that metal band
• 1:02:19
  retiring, you know, I mean, I am made it is still going for
• 1:02:22
  fuck's sake, but the thing was Slayer is that they It changed
• 1:02:28
  the sound, they did try the commercial route and stuff, but
• 1:02:31
  the heart of them never really changed and they did actually
• 1:02:34
  kind of return to their original genre, which was interesting and
• 1:02:40
  in the end and I mean, the joke was always there made the Same
• 1:02:43
  album, you know, every every couple of years.
• 1:02:46
  Like and it's kind of oh well if it's not broke, don't fix it.
• 1:02:49
  But as to your point about physicality, I mean their bases,
• 1:02:54
  Tom Araya the singer. Obviously his neck broke.
• 1:02:57
  Famously and he was no longer able to head bang, which
• 1:03:01
  obviously is a big thing about being a metal musician shaky.
• 1:03:05
  So, for the last sort of five years, the band maybe ten years,
• 1:03:09
  five years. I think of the band he basically
• 1:03:11
  had to just kind of soak it in and sort of turn awkwardly like
• 1:03:15
  this, but you couldn't actually engage like the rest of the
• 1:03:18
  bone. Do you have to do the Batman
• 1:03:20
  turn? Not not quite know.
• 1:03:23
  But like you could tell he wanted to kind of He wanted to,
• 1:03:27
  but he just couldn't do that, you know, it wasn't physically
• 1:03:29
  possible anymore. So I mentioned the Beach Boys,
• 1:03:34
  slightly facetious of you before but I am a huge Beach, Boys,
• 1:03:37
  Fun. And we'll talk about, you know,
• 1:03:39
  artists lives taking a toll on them like Brian Wilson, I mean,
• 1:03:42
  he's 18 now. Anyway, so that's fair enough,
• 1:03:44
  but my God, he's been through a hell of a life and his voices,
• 1:03:48
  you know, even by the mid-70s wasn't by, you know, let's say
• 1:03:51
  by 1975 wasn't what it was in 1967.
• 1:03:55
  Hmm. In a way eight years is not a
• 1:03:57
  long time but you know when you're fueled by you know
• 1:04:00
  literary kilos of coke per year like LSD speed we'd constantly
• 1:04:06
  alcohol. They it makes a massive toll and
• 1:04:08
  obviously famously, a big toll on your mental health as well.
• 1:04:12
  Yeah, it's obviously not quite the same genre as metal but you
• 1:04:14
  know, it's still Jesus. I just yeah it's just it's a
• 1:04:19
  nightmare. Isn't it to be a touring artist?
• 1:04:21
  I don't know how someone I guess, Bruce Springsteen.
• 1:04:24
  Who clearly loves it. I mean he clearly He loves it.
• 1:04:26
  He probably loves the money as well fight fair enough, but, you
• 1:04:29
  know, I don't know how you can keep that up.
• 1:04:32
  I'd argue to be honest, the drugs that you have to do drugs
• 1:04:37
  to do it. Yeah, to be honest, like, yeah,
• 1:04:40
  I don't even think it's a cuz I've, everyone talks about all
• 1:04:43
  use, you know, the weed and the alcohol and all this stuff.
• 1:04:46
  But like, they don't often think about, as you said, the
• 1:04:48
  physicality of it even. So like a just a pop musician
• 1:04:51
  like how many touring dates they have to do per year?
• 1:04:54
  The, the dance, The singing Everything like you knew
• 1:04:58
  probably do just need drugs to just keep going to stay awake to
• 1:05:03
  keep functioning. Yeah there's so your people
• 1:05:07
  people don't often realize that you know Bob Dylan through his
• 1:05:10
  most productive period was fueled by speed.
• 1:05:13
  Like he was on shit Tons of Speed and I mean sometimes you
• 1:05:17
  read the lyrics, like yeah you can tell like mr.
• 1:05:19
  Tambourine Man, great song. What the hell you talking about?
• 1:05:23
  But you know, a lot of them were and I think it's similar to like
• 1:05:27
  there are other professions that aren't quite so rock star, you
• 1:05:30
  know, like well Chef is a bit rock star points but that is a
• 1:05:33
  profession which is massively. Yeah by like weed nicotine at
• 1:05:38
  the very least alcohol and Coke and it's just people really put
• 1:05:44
  their bodies through the ring. I don't know.
• 1:05:45
  You got, I mean, you've got to be passionate, I think that's
• 1:05:49
  the key as well. You got to love what you do.
• 1:05:51
  Like if you're a shit like I've worked in hospitality and I must
• 1:05:54
  say, the only thing Not can think is that they are, they
• 1:05:57
  love what they do, and it's inside.
• 1:06:00
  So it's less, a job, and more lifestyle.
• 1:06:03
  Same with the musicians, it's like, you got to put your heart
• 1:06:05
  and energy and everything into it so that it's not a job
• 1:06:08
  anymore. It's but, you know, the
• 1:06:11
  inevitability of everything catches up with you.
• 1:06:14
  It's like that old saying. You need to choose a rest day of
• 1:06:19
  ways, your body will choose it for you, you know, and it's you
• 1:06:22
  just get sick, you just can't do it anymore, you know, and it's
• 1:06:25
  difficult. It to learn to take a break.
• 1:06:27
  I'm a stickler for them or were call it myself and every now and
• 1:06:30
  again I just have to take a day where I just sit and do nothing
• 1:06:33
  and it's difficult to even think about that, to be honest.
• 1:06:36
  Yeah. See I, when I left uni, I was
• 1:06:38
  really interested in like, potentially being a chef or
• 1:06:40
  something. I'm really into food, I love it.
• 1:06:42
  And I'd, you know, I think I, you know, even just tried a few
• 1:06:46
  bit kitchen worker, you know, slowly Dawning on you what the
• 1:06:49
  reality is. I, you know, I felt no problem
• 1:06:51
  whatsoever which bowing out straight away, you know, like,
• 1:06:54
  you know, yeah. Okay, you're about to go and I'm
• 1:06:56
  just like actually looking at the other competitors looking at
• 1:07:00
  everyone else who does I'm just like not I don't want this.
• 1:07:02
  I just I do not have this physically in me.
• 1:07:06
  I've just not it's not going to happen, I think sometimes if I
• 1:07:10
  don't know I'm saying this about myself, there's nothing wrong
• 1:07:13
  with quit and I was just like you know what I realize this is
• 1:07:15
  just not going to happen I still love food.
• 1:07:17
  I can still do it in my own time but you know what?
• 1:07:20
  Gordon Ramsay, I tip my hat because Jesus goddamn Christ,
• 1:07:23
  the amount of work that takes Like I just don't want that
• 1:07:28
  life, but yeah, it's it's quite curious what you do like, what
• 1:07:34
  do you do then? Like, are you youtubing and
• 1:07:36
  staff full time with your me? Yeah.
• 1:07:39
  Oh well I'll try to make this quick.
• 1:07:43
  So basically, I do podcasting, I do regularly release music on
• 1:07:48
  YouTube. I have a tick tock account.
• 1:07:52
  So basically I'm posting anywhere from 26 videos per day
• 1:07:57
  on their I do daily live streams for about an hour or two song.
• 1:08:01
  Request streams talking whatever, just a bit of
• 1:08:05
  everything, really acting stuff, comedy voice acting just
• 1:08:11
  everything. But yeah, like point being that
• 1:08:15
  like the, behind the scenes of this stuff takes a long time.
• 1:08:20
  A lot of the time people think. Oh, well, you just stick on the
• 1:08:22
  camera and you record or you just, you talk, you know,
• 1:08:25
  podcast Things easy, it's not easy here.
• 1:08:29
  It's internal thing. Isn't it like?
• 1:08:30
  Well, you know, I always talk to my friends and we know and, you
• 1:08:36
  know, I so I kind of I'm sure most people I was guilty of
• 1:08:41
  trying it that way when I first started podcasting, you get two
• 1:08:44
  episodes, any go, oh my God, this is not how it works.
• 1:08:48
  You need to like, you either have to be very good at self
• 1:08:52
  editing, whilst talking or you have to Loads of editing.
• 1:08:57
  Yeah, when it comes to it, so you have to choose one.
• 1:08:59
  You either have to self-edit and really have a control of the
• 1:09:02
  conversation or get good at editing or just keep your
• 1:09:07
  fingers crossed that you're actually just really fucking
• 1:09:09
  charming and interesting and funny like the you have to
• 1:09:12
  choose one basically that's it. Nothing is up.
• 1:09:14
  I agree with you. I feel that like when it comes
• 1:09:17
  to doing a podcast, I live by the notion of you have to have
• 1:09:22
  structure with everything that you do and And to be honest,
• 1:09:27
  even if you do, loads, and loads of editing after the fact, you
• 1:09:31
  still need something that people can kind of logically follow.
• 1:09:35
  Like a, I don't know, like, if you people listening to this
• 1:09:38
  podcast. Now, you notice that we shift
• 1:09:40
  from topic to topic, you know, they'll be things that I just
• 1:09:42
  won't return to because it's annoying as fuck.
• 1:09:45
  When, you know, you go through one's subject to the next and
• 1:09:49
  then suddenly you're going back to something, you spoke about
• 1:09:51
  like 45 minutes ago, but that's annoying as a list that you
• 1:09:54
  don't want that. And obviously, if you're doing a
• 1:09:57
  kind of a podcast where you're clipping in editing stuff up, I
• 1:10:00
  mean, obviously, yeah, conversations move forward and
• 1:10:03
  such, but it's very difficult to capture that in an organic way
• 1:10:07
  as well. Like, that's the thing.
• 1:10:09
  I mean, Yeah, I I make it my mission in life and especially
• 1:10:14
  doing stuff online to be as authentic as possible but the
• 1:10:18
  reality is that, you know, you are still presenting at all
• 1:10:21
  times you know. Like this is not the way I
• 1:10:24
  normally talk to say my friends in real life it's it would be
• 1:10:27
  fucking weird if I would do that.
• 1:10:31
  But you know, I have a similar because my girlfriend you know,
• 1:10:36
  I record a lot in the house when she's around and I say, you
• 1:10:39
  know, I feel like I have to really Speak in a way.
• 1:10:42
  She's like you're not actually being fake.
• 1:10:44
  You, you doing certain things to be less less day-to-day
• 1:10:49
  conversational. And you have to make sure that
• 1:10:51
  you're not just, you're not just talking like you would to your
• 1:10:54
  mate who's just hanging out next to the this authentically
• 1:10:58
  performing I think is kind of the way it.
• 1:11:00
  Yes. And you can't just be really
• 1:11:03
  straight forwardly authentic and it get any kind of
• 1:11:07
  straightforward way otherwise it's just going to be boring.
• 1:11:09
  It's yeah, that's the thing. You think about you go to a live
• 1:11:12
  show and you see someone talk do a comedy set or even if it's
• 1:11:16
  just like a Q&A style thing? They're still going to kind of
• 1:11:20
  tell stories in that entertaining way.
• 1:11:22
  Whereas as you say if they would just come out and just relax so
• 1:11:26
  would you want to know? Yeah I know, yeah easy that's
• 1:11:29
  gonna be boys. Fuck.
• 1:11:30
  Or if it would make you think about a genuine real life
• 1:11:33
  conversation. What does that tend to be?
• 1:11:35
  It tends to be that there's parts that are a bit monotonous
• 1:11:39
  or like, Where you just don't say anything for a while or, you
• 1:11:45
  know, maybe there's maybe some parts of the convo.
• 1:11:47
  I just boring, you know, you know.
• 1:11:49
  Yes, it's difficult to get to the good parts even in real
• 1:11:52
  life. So to then try, and I've never
• 1:11:56
  seen that. I've never seen anything online
• 1:11:59
  or in the public Eye. Entertainment stuff that isn't
• 1:12:05
  performed staged, in some shape, or for performed, maybe as a
• 1:12:08
  better word, I think. Yeah, I think I mean I think
• 1:12:13
  someone like Joe Rogan gets away with that bit more like he's at
• 1:12:16
  the point where he's so big that he I think he's more towards
• 1:12:19
  that end but it's he's now at the point where his audience
• 1:12:22
  expect that like, but again, there's probably some performant
• 1:12:25
  to it because, you know, there's a whole lot.
• 1:12:26
  Hey Jamie, get a picture of a chimpanzee type thing.
• 1:12:29
  Mmm, it's like he's probably playing into that mean to some
• 1:12:32
  extent and he probably wouldn't naturally do it as much as he
• 1:12:34
  can. He does.
• 1:12:35
  Because he knows, it's funny, but I do think he does.
• 1:12:38
  He's more towards that end of Completely unscripted, it
• 1:12:41
  probably is a bit more naturalistic, but then again, he
• 1:12:44
  puts out like three or four our podcast sometimes most of us
• 1:12:49
  mere mortals, cannot get away with that.
• 1:12:51
  I've gotten up to about three hours and that, even that it
• 1:12:54
  really takes it out of you, Jesus exhausting.
• 1:12:58
  But me, I believe if a conversations Goods, I just, you
• 1:13:01
  just gotta roll with it, you know?
• 1:13:02
  I mean, you've got a B, see it through.
• 1:13:05
  But also at all times, keep that structure.
• 1:13:07
  I'm always thinking about that even though because I remember I
• 1:13:10
  got some criticism early this year and naturally, I don't know
• 1:13:15
  whenever I get Podcast criticism, it never comes in a
• 1:13:18
  nice way. It always comes like, you know,
• 1:13:20
  look cool yourself. You saw mirror that kind of
• 1:13:22
  stuff and but the person basically said, it was just a
• 1:13:27
  pure lie. But they were basically like,
• 1:13:29
  you know, you talk over your guest, she talked too much which
• 1:13:32
  is horseshit like we had a Two and a half hour conversation.
• 1:13:35
  In this particular episode, they were commenting on.
• 1:13:37
  And I barely got a word in, and my guests even said that, like
• 1:13:41
  she said, oh, if anything, I thought, like I spoke too much.
• 1:13:44
  So this person whoever is commenting, was this being a
• 1:13:46
  douche. But one of the things that
• 1:13:49
  really kind of bothered me that they said, was that they found
• 1:13:57
  Like me specifically to be boring.
• 1:13:59
  Like, you know, the the kind of Storytelling like they did want
• 1:14:02
  to hear my stories. They didn't want to listen to
• 1:14:04
  that, and I was kind of thinking, like, well, Then, why
• 1:14:10
  are you listening then? Yeah, some people I chose.
• 1:14:13
  I mean, I have to kind of conscious.
• 1:14:16
  Remember, this is some people, it just oh, dick heads actually
• 1:14:20
  as you did that. Don't do that.
• 1:14:21
  Now remember, the main reason why I brought this up because
• 1:14:24
  yeah, so the thing that actually bothered me above all else was
• 1:14:27
  not so much. That it was the fact that they
• 1:14:29
  said that I wasn't paying attention.
• 1:14:33
  That was it. They said, oh, you're not paying
• 1:14:35
  attention to your guests, you're not listening to your guests and
• 1:14:38
  it's like do you have any idea what it's like to host a
• 1:14:42
  podcast? Like right now, I might, it
• 1:14:45
  might look. Look, I'm just havin a
• 1:14:46
  conversation with our lovely Jacob here.
• 1:14:48
  But actually in my head I'm thinking about several different
• 1:14:50
  things. I'm focusing on what I'm saying.
• 1:14:52
  Now, focusing on what Jacobs talking about before I'm
• 1:14:54
  focusing on this piece of paper in front of me that has
• 1:14:56
  different questions on it. There's several different
• 1:14:58
  fucking things going on in my head and it's actually very
• 1:15:02
  that's why. I, every time it doesn't matter
• 1:15:04
  if it's an hour or three hours. I'm exhausted afterwards.
• 1:15:08
  Is it doing like all these different things at once?
• 1:15:10
  So, that pissed me off. And that person said that
• 1:15:12
  because that's a lot. Yeah, and put some ice, some
• 1:15:15
  We'll adjust trolls. I mean it really is as simple as
• 1:15:17
  that. Like, I was going to be, like,
• 1:15:18
  I've never had any negative feedback on any my podcast, but
• 1:15:21
  that's quite simply because no one listens to the video.
• 1:15:25
  I sees the video s is have had negative comments.
• 1:15:27
  I just see that as proof of Greater exposure like some
• 1:15:32
  people, I think you're perfectly robust.
• 1:15:34
  I think you can take it on the chin.
• 1:15:36
  I don't think it bothers you, but these people exist out there
• 1:15:38
  and they're just going to be dickheads because they're trying
• 1:15:39
  to get a bit of a rise or whatever.
• 1:15:41
  Yep, it worked and The same, like, the first - common, I got
• 1:15:48
  on one of my video. Isis was like, clearly someone
• 1:15:50
  who didn't watch. It didn't take the time to
• 1:15:52
  actually listen to what I was saying.
• 1:15:53
  And completely got the wrong idea that the one about the Dire
• 1:15:57
  Straits, one, as I mentioned before is, like, how long, how
• 1:15:59
  long is the video? I was like, 22 minutes is only
• 1:16:02
  22 minutes and okay. So what was their common?
• 1:16:05
  So it's the one that start where I was like, Day Street at the
• 1:16:08
  loot. They the least cool band ever.
• 1:16:10
  Probably this song is amazing. I love them as a band.
• 1:16:12
  Let me tell you why if I let me tell you why.
• 1:16:15
  Then being boring is a key part to why they're so brilliant.
• 1:16:18
  And I say this within the first few minutes and his comments
• 1:16:20
  were just like this kid. I'm 30.
• 1:16:22
  Jesus Christ, this kid heat, good music.
• 1:16:26
  He probably listens to educate all that kind of comments.
• 1:16:28
  Like did you actually watch the whole thing?
• 1:16:30
  Did you just get annoyed by my first?
• 1:16:32
  Like three comments? Hmm, that would annoy me.
• 1:16:35
  But as I got the end of the day, she has some Boomer who hasn't
• 1:16:37
  watched. It probably doesn't really get
• 1:16:39
  technology properly but I was like look.
• 1:16:42
  Dude, like I would never do that.
• 1:16:46
  I don't think I've ever comment. I would never, I've never in my
• 1:16:49
  life. I can say that definitively
• 1:16:50
  comment left a negative comment on a YouTube video.
• 1:16:54
  I don't think I've even down, like, thumbs down of YouTube
• 1:16:56
  video. I don't know, that's just lame
• 1:16:57
  when people do that. I think the only the only one
• 1:17:00
  that I did that to was the YouTube Rewind because low but
• 1:17:06
  that actually was bad that deserve to break.
• 1:17:09
  Yeah. Yeah, that's good.
• 1:17:10
  But look, I just don't do it. I just don't see the point.
• 1:17:12
  And I certainly wouldn't do it if I hadn't actually watch the
• 1:17:16
  video. So yeah, dude, come on and and
• 1:17:20
  he wasn't a troll. I think he was being genuine,
• 1:17:22
  but stupid, but some people out there I just rolls and it's
• 1:17:26
  disappointing. It's annoying.
• 1:17:28
  But I think in a way it's proof. That people at least a watching.
• 1:17:31
  Hmm. And you know, I take the fuck
• 1:17:33
  that. I'm now getting a little tiny
• 1:17:35
  sliver of heat as better than previously, when just like no
• 1:17:41
  comments Any publicity is good publicity.
• 1:17:44
  Let's explore those video essays a little bit more.
• 1:17:46
  So tell us a little bit more about what you tend to cover
• 1:17:50
  regularly and yeah. And and what the feedback has
• 1:17:55
  been elsewhere Co see you mentioned a bit a little bit
• 1:17:58
  about it. But what's the general kind of
• 1:18:01
  reception that you're receiving is actually generally really
• 1:18:05
  good? Which I'm really happy with, I
• 1:18:07
  think want of to comments for like you know, where I was
• 1:18:11
  specifically looking. King forward criticism from
• 1:18:13
  people like on subreddits almost like your videos are a little
• 1:18:17
  bit like low quality as oh, yeah.
• 1:18:21
  Put like it was perfectly Fair common because it's not like
• 1:18:22
  highly produced. It's not like I don't know.
• 1:18:26
  Contra point. If you've watched her, he's like
• 1:18:27
  a left-wing kind of YouTubers. She's great, but it's not that
• 1:18:30
  kind of thing. And I was like, you know, that's
• 1:18:31
  fair because I'm trying to just get it done and I only have
• 1:18:34
  certain skills that video editing, but other than that,
• 1:18:37
  people seem to be appreciative of like my Approach because it's
• 1:18:40
  usually it will video. Essays are like One song at a
• 1:18:42
  time, really. And I'm glad that people
• 1:18:45
  because, you know, you start writing this video Lesson.
• 1:18:48
  You're like am I just talking crap?
• 1:18:50
  Like is this, is this bullshit? I might just writing bullshit
• 1:18:54
  and that's the script and I read it and like am I just reading
• 1:18:56
  bullshit? Is this it doesn't Lisa makes
• 1:18:58
  sense and the people watching like yeah you know actually I
• 1:19:00
  really liked your approach and just wanted to comment is that
• 1:19:03
  that's great. I'm really glad like I'm clearly
• 1:19:05
  doing something right and even went to one, listen watches two
• 1:19:08
  minutes of it and goes you're an idiot and you listen to Ed.
• 1:19:12
  No, whatever is she becoming is then that doesn't bother me as
• 1:19:17
  much because I don't know the other comments at least outweigh
• 1:19:20
  it. You know, I've started doing a
• 1:19:23
  similar thing on my Tick Tock now, where if someone is
• 1:19:26
  deliberately being mean, I pin their comment as the top comment
• 1:19:31
  and I just, I don't know. And sometimes some of my
• 1:19:34
  followers are be like they'll respond to the person but like
• 1:19:36
  screw you you don't know what you're talking about.
• 1:19:38
  It was just getting annoyed and I just find it funny.
• 1:19:40
  I just because I mean, In a lot of time that to be fair, he's
• 1:19:44
  just like kids and you got to just ignore it because kids are
• 1:19:46
  kids. But a lot of the time it will be
• 1:19:48
  like someone who's salty or annoyed or and it's always the
• 1:19:52
  same thing, nameless faceless. You know, it's very rare.
• 1:19:56
  They actually have their name and and picture and everything
• 1:20:00
  and people might ask well, why does that matter what I tell you
• 1:20:03
  why it matters because if you are going to have an opinion and
• 1:20:07
  be really controversial and and kind of spew hatred, as I think
• 1:20:12
  you should have the guts to at least have your name and picture
• 1:20:15
  and, you know, kind of make yourself available to criticism
• 1:20:19
  yourself. You know, be able to be
• 1:20:21
  reachable for a post, you know, because at the end of the day,
• 1:20:27
  opinions are always welcome. Like I've said this a million
• 1:20:29
  times. I'm had very happy for people to
• 1:20:32
  give me constructive criticism, go ahead.
• 1:20:34
  I'm more than happy to. Listen, it's when people were
• 1:20:36
  disrespectful. Now, in more recent times, I've
• 1:20:40
  learned not to give it a response.
• 1:20:42
  It's just because a, I can't be bothered just too much energy to
• 1:20:46
  Embrace. Hey, and be there's never
• 1:20:50
  anything positive about responding to trolls or hate.
• 1:20:53
  It never gets you anywhere. Because, as you said like,
• 1:20:56
  there's the purpose is to get a role Riser.
• 1:20:58
  You it's not it's not it's not going to benefit you by
• 1:21:02
  responding to them, even if you find something witty comedic,
• 1:21:05
  funny, the trolls already got what they want.
• 1:21:06
  They got a response from you, they're probably funny enough,
• 1:21:09
  trolls sometimes are actually your fans.
• 1:21:12
  Weirdly as weird as that, sounds something that gets to be a fan
• 1:21:14
  of yours and they just want to get a response because the only
• 1:21:17
  way to get a response out of, you might be to be - like I've
• 1:21:20
  seen so many creators special on apps like YouTube and Tick Tock
• 1:21:24
  where they're really successful, they never respond them to
• 1:21:27
  anyone because they get too many comments and so, but they do
• 1:21:30
  respond to negative criticism that there's this, this dance
• 1:21:34
  that I follow. You might have seen her.
• 1:21:36
  She like, this is really specific.
• 1:21:38
  I don't know if you've seen that there's this.
• 1:21:39
  Like, maybe not, I don't know. Okay, so there's this girl that
• 1:21:41
  does. Like a lot of dancing videos.
• 1:21:44
  She's a professional dancer and she worked for a little bit at
• 1:21:48
  Tesco and also some donut shop as well.
• 1:21:51
  I don't know. And basically, she was getting a
• 1:21:54
  lot of criticism online, like, oh, I hate seeing this woman on
• 1:21:58
  my fyp. Like look at her smiling ones.
• 1:22:00
  It was bullshit, but she took it to heart.
• 1:22:03
  She's made several videos about it like responding to and being
• 1:22:06
  like, oh, this is mean this is unfair and it really gets to it
• 1:22:10
  and that's, you know, it's a shame it's but That's the thing.
• 1:22:13
  She needs to get to that point where she doesn't care.
• 1:22:15
  It's like you that's the point. You need to be at.
• 1:22:18
  You have a lot me. I don't give a flying fuck if
• 1:22:20
  people say, horrible things. Like, why should I care?
• 1:22:23
  What some random video on the internet things?
• 1:22:26
  I don't give a shit, you know? It's but that's what the point
• 1:22:29
  you need to be. Yeah, I do agree, I do agree.
• 1:22:33
  Like literally, I don't know, I've been on my credit and
• 1:22:37
  things like that for like, how what year is it now?
• 1:22:40
  Like maybe 12 years 13 years? Ever since I was first learning
• 1:22:44
  and we G. Yeah.
• 1:22:47
  I mean I'm I don't have my original account.
• 1:22:48
  I think my current account is only maybe like a year or two
• 1:22:51
  old but you know, my first one was years ago and I think that
• 1:22:55
  kind of expecting read it used to be much more kind of a wild
• 1:22:59
  west than it is. Now I mean I was never like a
• 1:23:00
  four Channel which was the real wild but like read it you know,
• 1:23:04
  read it, you know, used to have some really unsavory things on
• 1:23:07
  it but you know I've always been on it I used to get into like
• 1:23:09
  the beta whatever people troll your ever and I think now I'm at
• 1:23:12
  the point where I just Doesn't really affect me I think if I've
• 1:23:17
  developed the calluses that you need I think well you know I
• 1:23:20
  think I have four still only have 129 subscribers on YouTube
• 1:23:23
  so it's not as if I get much exposure but you know I think
• 1:23:28
  I'm at the point now where you know, I've been trolled and
• 1:23:31
  bickering with people on Reddit or the forums online for such a
• 1:23:35
  long time that it just, it feels like it's relatively kind of
• 1:23:40
  whatever to me now, it's not a big deal.
• 1:23:42
  I want to speak to one point that you The because I can tell
• 1:23:45
  you're still in the mindset of caring too much about numbers
• 1:23:49
  which is a mindset that I've been in before.
• 1:23:52
  And what I can say to that is what obviously trolls always
• 1:23:56
  attack that. It's one of the first things
• 1:23:57
  that I tend to say is we'll you, you've only got 100 subscribers,
• 1:24:03
  so, you know, you should give up now.
• 1:24:05
  Your stuff is trash and it's like I wonder sometimes when
• 1:24:08
  those people make those comments today ever.
• 1:24:10
  I mean they obviously don't think but let's be real.
• 1:24:13
  Like every single creator that you like started at nothing.
• 1:24:19
  Everyone and everyone went for a process like I really recommend
• 1:24:24
  everyone go out of their way to check out PewDiePie's 10-year
• 1:24:28
  video. It's a fascinating insight into
• 1:24:32
  his career in everything, but he sits and goes through and shows
• 1:24:35
  you basically all the different Peaks that he hit.
• 1:24:38
  So, when he first began and he was working as a hotdog salesman
• 1:24:42
  or wherever you got a hot dog guy and doing these videos for
• 1:24:45
  fun, back in 2010, salesman's it I don't think salesman is
• 1:24:49
  Interesting idea, though. And one thing that's really
• 1:25:05
  interesting about it is that there are like declines and ups
• 1:25:09
  and downs. And but like more specifically
• 1:25:11
  shifts, every like kind of three years and then once he gets to a
• 1:25:15
  certain degree of notoriety, it's basically up and down.
• 1:25:19
  Four year and that but he still has those major shits even five
• 1:25:23
  ten years down the line and I found the same thing like with
• 1:25:29
  what I do. I mean, obviously I'm still in
• 1:25:30
  small numbers but to give you an example.
• 1:25:33
  I'm growing like a lot on Tick-Tock right now and one
• 1:25:36
  thing I've noticed about that is that it's a lot easier to grow
• 1:25:40
  than it is on places like Instagram and YouTube.
• 1:25:45
  And what tends to happen is that if you get big on Tick Tock your
• 1:25:50
  other platforms, eventually do rise as well, but that's more
• 1:25:54
  because you're getting established on that one
• 1:25:56
  platform. If you're trying to grow on a
• 1:25:57
  platform like YouTube or Instagram, it's going to be in
• 1:26:02
  phases. It's going to be slow
• 1:26:04
  progression. Like my podcast.
• 1:26:05
  I've been doing this a year now as well.
• 1:26:08
  And it's taken me a year to get like a regular audience probably
• 1:26:12
  have about I want to say 10 to 15 people listening.
• 1:26:16
  I think it's around about that much but it's split as well,
• 1:26:20
  because there's a bunch of people that listen on YouTube.
• 1:26:23
  And there's a bunch of people that listen on earlier
• 1:26:24
  platforms, which is something you don't always think about,
• 1:26:27
  you know, it's different. Like I mean I hadn't even
• 1:26:30
  consider this but there's there's a term for video
• 1:26:33
  podcasting podcast. All right, it's not something
• 1:26:37
  you really think about but like and you know I don't listen or
• 1:26:40
  watch video podcast. I always listen if I do listen
• 1:26:43
  and I tend to watch The clips or listen to the clips and that's
• 1:26:46
  another element to it as well. And the funny thing about my
• 1:26:49
  podcast which is different, maybe to other people's is that?
• 1:26:52
  No one gives a shit about Clips, but everyone listens to the four
• 1:26:55
  episodes which blows my mind because I thought as soon as I
• 1:26:58
  put that pink lips out so it's gonna blow up its gonna get ya
• 1:27:02
  gonna get people talking and it's it never works out and
• 1:27:05
  bring it back to the original point about numbers and stuff.
• 1:27:09
  I think that it's true that audiences And the common person
• 1:27:15
  cares about numbers. So like when people were looking
• 1:27:18
  at, you know, your YouTube channel or my podcast or
• 1:27:21
  whatever, they go are some got 100 subscribers.
• 1:27:25
  Probably isn't worth my time then.
• 1:27:27
  But every now and again, you get that one person who's like, hmm,
• 1:27:32
  they're talking about something. I like let's just check it out
• 1:27:35
  and then they become a fan because they like what you're
• 1:27:38
  doing. And those people are valuable
• 1:27:42
  and this is my little bit of advice to you is Focus on
• 1:27:44
  whatever it is you got like five or ten people that are always
• 1:27:47
  watching every single because those are the people that matter
• 1:27:51
  and that expands like, right now I've got call audience of people
• 1:27:54
  that listen to me and have followed me from Tick-Tock to
• 1:27:57
  Instagram. And because I got buying from
• 1:28:00
  Tick-Tock lines, recently, long story.
• 1:28:02
  But anyway, and I got banned. Yeah, long story.
• 1:28:05
  But anyway, okay, the interesting thing is they
• 1:28:07
  migrated from Tick Tock, and follow me to Instagram, they
• 1:28:10
  listen to my podcast. There are core audience, I love
• 1:28:13
  you all. Oh, you guys by the way, and
• 1:28:16
  they always listen and consume everything that I'm doing.
• 1:28:19
  Those are fans. That's something that I've built
• 1:28:21
  up and that's what matters. Not if there's a because that's
• 1:28:25
  the thing. Even if your videos blow up and
• 1:28:26
  you get like a thousand, ten thousand views or 10,000
• 1:28:29
  followers, that whole audience, there's only a small proportion
• 1:28:32
  of those people that are actually legitimately engaged
• 1:28:35
  and what you do are fans of use specifically, or your brand and
• 1:28:40
  want to see more of you. And that's why I think it's
• 1:28:42
  important just as a final Thing to this that you focus on
• 1:28:48
  producing the best quality content that you can do and
• 1:28:52
  never focus on the numbers. Always, just focus on what
• 1:28:55
  you're doing and that you enjoy and you love it because the
• 1:28:58
  really did the numbers they're useful for just glancing at.
• 1:29:03
  You know, sometimes I look at mine and go, oh that's
• 1:29:04
  interesting. It's more female than male and
• 1:29:07
  they're mostly in America, But ultimately to that, I've never
• 1:29:10
  looked to that shit. I'm full of detail.
• 1:29:12
  Do I? Maybe I didn't know.
• 1:29:13
  Could actually because I'm, I'm still relatively, I don't.
• 1:29:17
  Yeah, yeah, I don't look too much of the numbers I did.
• 1:29:20
  I mean, I do think. Yeah.
• 1:29:21
  I do. I do.
• 1:29:22
  I do you like to track it? And I probably do look too much.
• 1:29:24
  I'm going to be honest, some of the other side.
• 1:29:25
  Everyone does it, dude, I'm not details.
• 1:29:28
  I didn't realize I could look at the detail.
• 1:29:29
  I'm gonna do that now. But I definitely, you know, you
• 1:29:32
  put any video any like, let's see if any of these years of
• 1:29:34
  subscribed non have subscribed, how dare they?
• 1:29:38
  I don't want to say, thanks and all high and mighty that because
• 1:29:40
  I was really about a year ago, a year and a half ago.
• 1:29:44
  I was legitimately checking my stats on YouTube every single
• 1:29:47
  day. Why is it not going on?
• 1:29:48
  Well, it's dropped on that even today like I lost a couple of
• 1:29:53
  subscribers a day on YouTube and it kind of like bothered me for
• 1:29:56
  like a second as I and then I thought I'd doesn't fucking
• 1:29:59
  matter. Who cares, who cares?
• 1:30:01
  There's a core audience that's when that it doesn't matter if
• 1:30:04
  like and because it my friend shouts, childish, Jacko.
• 1:30:07
  He always says to me, if someone stops following you, or stops
• 1:30:11
  listening, it's not what they were.
• 1:30:12
  Never listening in the first place then.
• 1:30:13
  If they don't follow you, but they just don't realize, you
• 1:30:17
  know, it's that's one less problem you have to worry about,
• 1:30:19
  you know, it's true. What's the biggest life lesson
• 1:30:24
  that you've learned so far? In my entire life and your
• 1:30:29
  entire life. I'm punishing use.
• 1:30:35
  This feels almost matter. How would I phrase it?
• 1:30:39
  I guess it is. I don't know.
• 1:30:41
  I don't sound too wonky. No, no be honest, man.
• 1:30:44
  I've asked like one of my guys. Life is a lesson right?
• 1:30:48
  There is no single lesson. If you want to learn any lesson
• 1:30:50
  like every day I can't goddamn. You gotta fuck things up so
• 1:30:53
  much. Right.
• 1:30:54
  Oh my God. Every day you're going to be
• 1:30:56
  presented with like evidence of your previous stupidity, like
• 1:31:01
  it's just true every day. I'm like, God damn it.
• 1:31:03
  Did I really think that God fun of what an idiot did I really
• 1:31:07
  are? That's embarrassing.
• 1:31:09
  Even the things. Like you thought you never
• 1:31:10
  shared or something just like God, I'm so like ignorant and I
• 1:31:13
  don't say that. Like it way to put myself to,
• 1:31:14
  I'm not being like, like, overly depressive, or whatever.
• 1:31:17
  And just saying, like, it's kind of, once you get comfortable
• 1:31:20
  with that things, get so much better.
• 1:31:22
  I'm just constantly now. Like, I don't know, you know,
• 1:31:25
  when I first got my first job out of uni, or even when I was
• 1:31:27
  at Uni, you don't know something.
• 1:31:29
  And it's, you know what you teach is.
• 1:31:30
  Always tell you. I remember my teacher saying
• 1:31:31
  like, oh, it's just ask question is a stupid question, but when
• 1:31:34
  you're at Uni or first job, you don't want to come across as an
• 1:31:36
  idiot or but now if I don't know what's It's someone saying
• 1:31:40
  something mean, I don't understand.
• 1:31:41
  I'm like dude I have no idea so I don't get it and it's just
• 1:31:45
  yeah. Life is just a constant lesson
• 1:31:47
  just like embrace it. Like it's true for everyone and
• 1:31:50
  if you see someone for whom, it doesn't seem like they're going
• 1:31:53
  through the same thing. That's probably because they
• 1:31:55
  just really good at accepting that it's a lesson.
• 1:31:58
  Like there are some people out there who are really fucking
• 1:32:00
  smart, really good at what they do, but because they managed to
• 1:32:04
  take that lesson on board, really early, they accepted
• 1:32:07
  like, look, I'm gonna suck it. For a while.
• 1:32:10
  So I teach banjo and stuff like that, if you teach a few music
• 1:32:12
  instruments, as well as do my YouTube stuff and some of my
• 1:32:16
  students have that lesson like internalized and they really get
• 1:32:21
  it really quickly like quicker than I did.
• 1:32:23
  And I'm teaching them, you know, I've been playing for ages now.
• 1:32:26
  There's some people really get it straight away.
• 1:32:27
  It's like, look, tell me when I'm screwing up, tell me what's
• 1:32:30
  wrong. And they really have that
• 1:32:32
  attitude of just accepting. That they suck because when you
• 1:32:37
  first start playing an instrument, you suck Joey, it's
• 1:32:40
  just simple fact. Like last year during a
• 1:32:43
  lockdown, my girlfriend. I got some rollerblades.
• 1:32:46
  I've never rode a skate or I skate.
• 1:32:47
  Anything like that. I fell over immediately.
• 1:32:49
  Yep. But you know what?
• 1:32:51
  I don't, you know, I sucked. I still suck a bit but it
• 1:32:54
  doesn't bother me whatsoever. It's just like, yeah, this is
• 1:32:56
  what you have to do. You have to push through a bit
• 1:32:58
  and heck, you know, maybe there are things in life that I took a
• 1:33:01
  bit longer to get than the average person.
• 1:33:03
  And there's some things I got quicker.
• 1:33:06
  Maybe you know, some people are just slower everything but
• 1:33:08
  that's fine like life just a lesson.
• 1:33:11
  You're going to suck and just get get used to sucking and just
• 1:33:14
  kind of enjoy it. Couldn't agree more.
• 1:33:18
  So thanks for sharing and as a final question, do you have any
• 1:33:23
  upcoming projects or some final thoughts that you'd like to
• 1:33:25
  share with our listeners? I guess I, yeah, I have a few
• 1:33:31
  upcoming things. Generally, I am.
• 1:33:33
  So I have more video essays coming out.
• 1:33:37
  The next one. Is how much detail I can go to
• 1:33:42
  but it's about repetition legitimizes.
• 1:33:44
  This is a thing that a famous YouTuber called.
• 1:33:46
  Adam Neely. Who's brilliant?
• 1:33:47
  Talks about. It's the idea that, you know, by
• 1:33:50
  repeating something in music or guess.
• 1:33:52
  Any are kind of makes it like legitimate as a piece of art.
• 1:33:56
  And I kind of explore that subject a bit more deeply and
• 1:33:59
  I'm kind of halfway through editing that I'll be out soon.
• 1:34:02
  I got some original music coming out.
• 1:34:05
  I tend to write like folksy froggy, stuff like a few ambient
• 1:34:10
  type things as well. But yeah, I mean if people could
• 1:34:13
  check out my channel which is big yellow Praxis by the way,
• 1:34:16
  it's not Jacob wall. Le I didn't name it, simply big
• 1:34:19
  yellow Praxis is, it's a pun based on the Joni Mitchell song,
• 1:34:23
  Big Yellow Taxi. I'm a big fan of Jo joining
• 1:34:25
  Mitchell. The pun doesn't actually make
• 1:34:27
  any sense, but, you know, you got to roll with something and
• 1:34:31
  final thoughts. I don't know.
• 1:34:34
  Yeah, I don't have any final thoughts.
• 1:34:35
  That's my final thought. Well thank you very much for
• 1:34:39
  being on the podcast. It's been an absolute pleasure
• 1:34:42
  and best of luck with everything.
• 1:34:44
  Thank you very much, you to thank you very much too.
• 1:34:47
  Everyone listening to the Christian read podcast, and
• 1:34:50
  until next time, be safe it well and I'll see you in the next
• 1:34:53
  one.