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JFK Book Reviews - State Secret By Bill Simpich · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: What's up, everybody. Welcome to JFK Book Reviews. It's been
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: a little while. Here with me today is Joe.
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: How are you? Joe?
• 0:10
  Speaker 3: I am good, sir, how are you?
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: I am fantastic. I like your shirt?
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, representing reppend repping. So this week we're
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: going to stray just a cooney hair from the norm
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: and where we're going to review a book that's not
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: a book, but it's kind of a book, but not really.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: And what I mean by that is we're going to
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  Speaker 2: be reviewing.
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  Speaker 1: Something it's not a book, but it reads like a book,
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  Speaker 1: and it's online for free and everybody can check it out.
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  Speaker 1: And it's State Secret by Bill Simpitch. The full title
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  Speaker 1: is State Secret, Why are Tapping in Mexico City? Double Agents?
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  Speaker 1: And the Framing of Lee Harvey Oswald. You can find
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  Speaker 1: this book online for free at the Mary Farrell Foundation.
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  Speaker 1: That's Maryferrell dot org. Okay, when you get there, just
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  Speaker 1: search State Secret or Simpach and you will find it.
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  Speaker 1: He has, I believe, two writings. If you will up there,
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  Speaker 1: you'll see the twelve the Belty Oswald Legend, and you'll
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  Speaker 1: see State Secret, among probably a couple other things that
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  Speaker 1: he's written. But the one we're gonna be talking about
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  Speaker 1: here today is again they call it an online serialization. Now,
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  Speaker 1: the origins of this writing I believe date back to
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  Speaker 1: somewhere around twenty twelve, when a series of articles was
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  Speaker 1: published on op EdNews dot com, which you can find.
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  Speaker 2: They're still out there as well.
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  Speaker 1: But there's not as much information in those articles as
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  Speaker 1: there is in the State Secret writings.
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  Speaker 2: So the book, we'll just call it a book.
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  Speaker 3: I'd say, maybe it's.
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  Speaker 2: About that thick. It's a you hear that, Joe?
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, one hundred and forty seven pages online.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, not very thick. We call it slim thick, that's okay.
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  Speaker 1: It consists of a preface, six chapters, and a conclusion,
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  Speaker 1: and range, like I said, from material of Oswald Doubles,
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  Speaker 1: CIA counterintelligence and a lot of Mexico City and a
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  Speaker 1: lot of speculation about rogue CIA assets and agents.
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  Speaker 2: But we'll get there, I promise.
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  Speaker 1: And this book definitely definitely has a conspiracy lean to it,
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  Speaker 1: as Joe will tell you. I believe this was published
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  Speaker 1: over at Mary Ferrell somewhere around twenty thirteen. I think.
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  Speaker 1: Don't quote me on that. There's no I didn't find
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  Speaker 1: I don't know if you did, Joe, I didn't find
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  Speaker 1: a copyright date.
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  Speaker 2: For this, but.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely has a conspiracy lean to it. And Joe,
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  Speaker 1: let's get into the meat and taters. The master pages
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  Speaker 1: of this et secret.
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  Speaker 4: Yes, it does not have a copyright dat on it
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  Speaker 4: on the Mary Farr Foundation. But so we should always
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  Speaker 4: start off what was the author's goal in writing this book?
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  Speaker 4: And I am going to be looking to my left
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  Speaker 4: your right as I read from my other laptop and
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  Speaker 4: my notes. Well, thankfully, the first sentence in the preface
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  Speaker 4: states the goal this book is about the counterintelligence counterintelligence
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  Speaker 4: activity behind the JFK story and the role in the
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  Speaker 4: death of President Kennedy. This book tells the story of
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  Speaker 4: a Soviet defector named Lee Harvey Oswalt who returned to
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  Speaker 4: the United States and how he was closely watched over
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  Speaker 4: over the four years of his life, the plans to
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  Speaker 4: kill Castro during this era, the operations surrounding the Cuban
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  Speaker 4: consulate in Mexico City in nineteen sixty three, and now
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  Speaker 4: everything went haywire when the Oswalt When Oswalt came to
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  Speaker 4: Mexico City two months before the assassination, and that is
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  Speaker 4: a quote from the preface. And you know, the first
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  Speaker 4: chapter deals with the Double Dangle, and you know, almost
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  Speaker 4: all these chapters go.
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  Speaker 3: Into Mexico City.
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  Speaker 4: And the impersonation of Oswalt and introduces players like David Morales,
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  Speaker 4: William Harvey, James Angleton, and good Pasture. Robert Webster, who
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  Speaker 4: was of course another defector to the USSR. He explains
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  Speaker 4: the purpose of Staff D, an American wiretop operation headed
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  Speaker 4: up by of course Bill Harvey and ci SIG Counterintelligence
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  Speaker 4: Special Operations Group that worked with the Office of Security,
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  Speaker 4: whose goal it was to prevent the penetration of spies
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  Speaker 4: into the CIA and government, essentially Mohunt. One thing that
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  Speaker 4: mister Simpitch argues in the book is that when Robert
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  Speaker 4: Webster WENTMA for a little while, Rob Lee Harvey Oswalt
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  Speaker 4: was sent in. And this is one of the one
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  Speaker 4: things I don't want to say disagree with, but I'm
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  Speaker 4: not quite sure of. I'm not convinced of the circumstances
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  Speaker 4: of their defections were extremely different. Robert Webster defected to
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  Speaker 4: the Soviet Union nineteen fifty nine primarily for personal and
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  Speaker 4: romantic reasons. He left his wife, and I believe was
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  Speaker 4: two kids. Well, I believe Oswalt went more there for
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  Speaker 4: ideological reasons, so I'm not sure that the two connect
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  Speaker 4: in that way, although you do have the connection rob
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  Speaker 4: of allegedly Marina meeting both of them.
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  Speaker 3: Is extremely coincidental and interesting.
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  Speaker 4: And I guess the late the girl who was Hungarian
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  Speaker 4: was suspected as being a KGB agent, which of course
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  Speaker 4: everyone was at that point.
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  Speaker 3: You know.
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  Speaker 4: Then you get into chapter three, which talks a lot
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  Speaker 4: about how the Kennedys removed Bill Harvey Operation Mongoose, and
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  Speaker 4: how Bobby and Bill Harvey were at odds.
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  Speaker 3: These people did not like each other.
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  Speaker 4: Chapters four and five goes more into Mexico City and
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  Speaker 4: the background into the wiretap operations in Mexico City, La
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  Speaker 4: Envoy and La Feet. It also goes depth into the
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  Speaker 4: war in Cuba and double agent games, with a lot
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  Speaker 4: of focus on the nineteen sixty three CIA effort to
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  Speaker 4: assassinate or overthrow Faguel Castro. This state secret upon an
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  Speaker 4: intender collided with the need to hide US wiretapping capabilities,
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  Speaker 4: and you know, he goes into you know, this book
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  Speaker 4: is not for the first time. JFK Reader let me
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  Speaker 4: say that it goes deep into Cold War era spy
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  Speaker 4: games and operations, and you really have to be somewhat
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  Speaker 4: knowledgeable about a lot to really understand a lot of
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  Speaker 4: what mister Simpach talks about. Then he talks about, of course,
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  Speaker 4: like you mentioned, the setup framed Oswalt as the passe
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  Speaker 4: while protecting the agency's operations and reputations. And of course
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  Speaker 4: we talk about the Mexico City, the alleged phone call
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  Speaker 4: with Oswald and Sylvia Duran, which of course I don't
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  Speaker 4: think Rob, we've ever heard that.
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  Speaker 3: I think that's been deep sext right.
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  Speaker 2: What's that about Sylvia Duran.
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  Speaker 3: The phone call between them? The audio.
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  Speaker 2: I want to say, I've heard her on speaking Spanish
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  Speaker 2: on a line. I don't know if. I don't know
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  Speaker 2: if the Oswald person is on there or not. I
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  Speaker 2: don't know. I don't remember.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, I seem to think it wasn't. But uh. And
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  Speaker 4: of course you have the mystery man photo outside the
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  Speaker 4: Cuban embassy.
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  Speaker 3: Right nowhere close to it.
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  Speaker 4: Chapter six gets into the set up and cover up
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  Speaker 4: and goes a little bit into the TSBD and Oswalt's
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  Speaker 4: possible presence on the first or second floor not the
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  Speaker 4: sixth floor, gets a little bit into the man Lucre Carcano,
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  Speaker 4: and then the issues with the tippet scene and witnesses
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  Speaker 4: from the Texas Theater, including Virginia Davis and Butch Burrows.
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  Speaker 4: And when we get to the cover up part of
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  Speaker 4: the chapter, the author gets into the Parkland cover up,
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  Speaker 4: washing blood and debris off the presidential limo, which I'm
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  Speaker 4: sure we are all familiar with, and Hoover's immediate declaration
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  Speaker 4: of Oswalt as a lone gunman upon intendment intended long gunman,
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  Speaker 4: and the sending of the Mexico City transcripts and mystery
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  Speaker 4: Man photos.
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  Speaker 3: To the it was the night of the twenty second And.
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  Speaker 4: So I mean, listen, this is a high level read.
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  Speaker 4: You probably have to read it a few times.
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  Speaker 3: I will.
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  Speaker 4: I have some closing thoughts on it, but before I do,
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  Speaker 4: I will send it back to you, mister Robb the
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  Speaker 4: Triple B, and I'll give my ratings after you do.
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  Speaker 3: Sir.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I'm.
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  Speaker 1: I often go back to this writing book, whatever you
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  Speaker 1: want to call it, because.
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  Speaker 2: There's just nothing else out there, Like I mean, you
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  Speaker 2: can kind of compare.
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  Speaker 1: Larry Hancock the simpits in their writings a little bit.
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  Speaker 1: They don't agree on everything, you know, and again, you
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  Speaker 1: have to have a deep knowledge of how the CIA
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  Speaker 1: is structured. It's agents, it's terminology, it's lingo, it's methods
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  Speaker 1: and operations, and how it works, and how it's structured and.
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  Speaker 2: The flow of information through the CIA.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, like Joe said, this is not a one
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  Speaker 1: oh one type book. You know, if you don't know
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  Speaker 1: shit about the assassination, don't jump in here and start
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  Speaker 1: reading it. But once you get your chops a little wet,
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  Speaker 1: and uh, you know, I mean, he jumps into all
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  Speaker 1: kinds of stuff, not just Mexico City. It is a
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  Speaker 1: lot about Oswald and Mexico City and the CIA, but
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  Speaker 1: there's also a lot of Dallas stuff in here, secret
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  Speaker 1: Service stuff in here, Tippet stuff in here. Even so,
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  Speaker 1: he does hit a lot of high points. There is
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  Speaker 1: a little bit of outdated speculation, if you will, in
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  Speaker 1: the book when you're talking about I think he relies
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  Speaker 1: a lot on some of Morley's information and David Talbot.
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  Speaker 1: And you know, if you've been listening to our show,
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  Speaker 1: a lot of that stuff has been debased, not necessarily debunked,
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  Speaker 1: but just shown to be baseless based on you know,
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  Speaker 1: random things, and they can be easily contradicted. So that
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  Speaker 1: being said, you know, I do enjoy and like I said,
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  Speaker 1: I go back to this thing a lot because I
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  Speaker 1: really have a problem understanding what happened in Mexico City.
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  Speaker 1: Who where, why the whole nine was Oswald impersonated? What
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  Speaker 1: were they doing against the Cuban embassy? It seems like
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  Speaker 1: they were working as q in some way. You got
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  Speaker 1: Phillips being moved around like a chess piece and look,
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  Speaker 1: it's it's the world of trade craft, spycraft. And I
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  Speaker 1: think he mentions in the book that a lot of
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  Speaker 1: the important things that were going on was sigant which
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  Speaker 1: is signal intelligence, which is wire tapping, intercepting messages, and
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  Speaker 1: comment which is communications intelligence. And that was a big
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  Speaker 1: part of what the Mexico City station was doing. And
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  Speaker 1: they were in the I guess right part of the
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  Speaker 1: world to be doing it in the western hemisphere. You know,
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  Speaker 1: Mexico City is like smack dab in the middle between
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  Speaker 1: North and South America. You have them, uh, you know,
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  Speaker 1: with access to Cuba. You know, back then you couldn't
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  Speaker 1: hop on a plane in America and go to Cuba.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, I believe he called it the ground zero of
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  Speaker 4: like counter intelligence.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean this was like you know, Paris or
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  Speaker 1: London or some great European country would have been in
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  Speaker 1: World War Two. You know, it's just it's ground zero
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  Speaker 1: for its spy central. Everybody and their brothers here doing shit.
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  Speaker 1: And the way certain pieces may have been played against
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  Speaker 1: the other, and the way you know, you see that
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  Speaker 1: certain people are used in certain situations. Some people have
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  Speaker 1: said some things over the years. That's a little suss.
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  Speaker 1: But that being said, Joe, I'm not mad at State Secret.
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  Speaker 1: It's like I said, if he could do an updated
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  Speaker 1: version of this, uh, you know, with with with because
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  Speaker 1: a lot of there's been a lot of documents that
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: have came out since this thing came out, wow, especially
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  Speaker 1: you know, I mean you're talking everything that's been released
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  Speaker 1: from twenty seventeen to twenty twenty six. We're talking thousands
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  Speaker 1: and thousands and thousands of pages of documents, a lot
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  Speaker 1: of it about Mexico City. So I think, you know,
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  Speaker 1: at some point, if he could take the time to
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  Speaker 1: expand on this or update this and address certain issues
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  Speaker 1: that some people have with this, I think he would
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: have a ten out of ten from me. But as
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  Speaker 1: it stands right now, Big Bad Bob is sitting at
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  Speaker 1: a nine out of ten.
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  Speaker 2: Guns up, What say you, Joseph.
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  Speaker 4: Well, you're definitely right in the sense that for me,
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  Speaker 4: at least, the Mexico City part of the assassination story
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  Speaker 4: is by far the most.
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  Speaker 3: Confusing to me. By far, I still don't understand it.
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  Speaker 4: And you know, you're dealing with mole Hunt, You're dealing
• 17:35
  Speaker 4: with you know, counterintelligence games and operations, and.
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  Speaker 3: It's it's almost.
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  Speaker 4: Like it's more for like the Cold War era spy
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  Speaker 4: readers than it is for JFK assassination, although it does
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  Speaker 4: touch on a lot of the JFK assassination, like the
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  Speaker 4: twelve that built the Oswalt legend, you know, and deals
• 18:00
  Speaker 4: with the morenshield and Ruth Payne is much more tailored,
• 18:05
  Speaker 4: I guess is the word to a lot of the
• 18:09
  Speaker 4: players in it. But you do learn a lot about
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  Speaker 4: what was going on. It's very high level. The book
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  Speaker 4: is incredibly well sourced, rob and it has after every
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  Speaker 4: chapter documents links. I didn't count them all, but I'd
• 18:28
  Speaker 4: say they're probably over two hundred if I had to guess,
• 18:35
  Speaker 4: you know, and Bill Simperts is obviously a great researcher.
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  Speaker 4: He knows more than I will probably ever know about
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  Speaker 4: CIA operations. There's a lot of CIA officers, lesser known
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  Speaker 4: officers that I wasn't familiar with, and kryptonyms, etc. Like
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  Speaker 4: I said, I agree slightly with the timing of the
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: Webster Oswalt that Oswald was sent in because Webster went
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: on a honeymoon with his Gumar in a sense. But
• 19:14
  Speaker 4: you know, the area is just so murky right when
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: you're dealing with these type of operations, and there are
• 19:21
  Speaker 4: a lot of documents that are missing, destroyed, or even
• 19:25
  Speaker 4: manipulated for boll Onto purposes.
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  Speaker 3: So it's extremely.
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  Speaker 4: Difficult to kind of parse this out, especially sixty five
• 19:35
  Speaker 4: years ago about from you know, nineteen fifty nine. I
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: think the author, mister Simpez did accomplish what he set
• 19:47
  Speaker 4: out to do in this book essay, whatever you want
• 19:51
  Speaker 4: to call it, And we do quote it frequently on
• 19:56
  Speaker 4: our show The Long Gun. So I am.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we just did on the Richard King episode. Yeah,
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, there's lots of there's lots of stuff there.
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: There's a lot.
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  Speaker 4: And you know what, just like based on when it
• 20:16
  Speaker 4: was written and what I think he had tried to accomplish.
• 20:21
  Speaker 4: I am also going to give this a nine guns up.
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: It's a great read. Not your first read, but when
• 20:35
  Speaker 4: you understand uh, the arena of spycraft, it's a fascinating.
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: Literature.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: So certainly wait until your balls drop a little bit
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: before you try to read.
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: This book.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: Yes, all right, well, thank you Joe and folks, that's
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: a book review, or that's an essay review, or that's
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: a writing review.
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: Again.
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  Speaker 1: You can find this over on Maryferrell dot org. Just
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: search for State secret or Bill Simpach. It will pop up.
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: You can read it there for free, per gratis. Thank
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: you Bill Simpach for doing that and making it free
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: to everybody. And like I said, there are links hot
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: links all through the chapters and everything so you can
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: see the primary documents, which is cool, you know, it's
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: it's he was ahead of his time in.
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: Doing that for sure.
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: But yeah, that's it for JFK Book Reviews.
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  Speaker 2: We're back.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: He's Joe BURRELLI I am Rob Clark, and we will
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: see you soon on another exciting edition of Jfkbook Reviews,
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: brought to you by the Lone Goming Podcast, And we
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: are out
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: Later PE