Latest / Legally Brunette / Killer Thriller: Joe Exotic Was Charming… Until He Was Terrifying. Brian Van Holt on the Tiger King Chaos

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Killer Thriller: Joe Exotic Was Charming… Until He Was Terrifying. Brian Van Holt on the Tiger King Chaos · Legally Brunette

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Amy Roboc and TJ.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: Holmes present Killer Thriller with your host Elisa Donovan. Hey everyone,
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: Elisa Donovan here and this is Killer Thriller.
• 0:19
  Speaker 3: Today. We are diving into.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: A true crime story that was already wild and then
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: it got the Hollywood treatment. First there were the headlines
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: Joe Exotic, the so called Tiger King, and a murder
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: for higher plot targeting animal rights activist Carol Baskin.
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: Then came Joe v.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: Carroll, the series that tried to make sense of all
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: of it. But in the middle of that chaos was
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: someone who wasn't chasing attention and wasn't playing to the cameras,
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: and that is John Rank. He ran the Exotic Animal
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: Zoo at the center of all of the chaos, and
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: he saw firsthand how things went from eccentric is something
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: much darker. And the man who brought him to life
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: in that series is Brian Van Holt. Brian, thank you
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: so much for being here today with me.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: Oh, thank you for having me. It's my it's my pleasure.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: I first got the email from my manager about the invite,
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: and I assume, based on the title of the podcast,
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: that I was going to have to do with my
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: you know, for the movie I did House of As.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: Oh well, listen, if that was, you know, based on
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: something real, then we definitely we would talk about that too.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: But I was I was so happy to see that
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: it was about Joe versus Carol in this this to
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: talk about and engage and revisit this whole this, this
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: whole world was Yes, it was. It's a pleasure and
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: I was thrilled. So thank you for having me.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: I'm so glad because listen, I mean, this is just
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: one of the craziest, zaniest crimes and stories that I
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: think I've ever heard, and it just sort of keeps
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: unfolding the more that you read about it and learned
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: about it. And so when were you watching the documentary
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: The Tiger King, like the rest of us, like, what
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: was your immediate reaction when you heard about this story?
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: So I actually, first I didn't hear about the story,
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: But I do remember Joe exotic prior to seeing the
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: docu series because he was running for office and I
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: know he got a lot of attention on like the
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: late night talk shows and oh yeah, and Steve Colbert
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: did something really funny. So that's it. But then the
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: Doctor and I'm like, wow, that's a fascinating that's that's crazy,
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: that's a fascinating dude. But then, yes, the docu series
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: came out and I believe it was during COVID. Yes,
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: so we're binging everything. I mean, this was like, I
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: think a two day binger. Like this thing was over
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: and done in a matter of hours because it was addicting.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: It couldn't I couldn't, you know, it couldn't take my
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: eyes off of everything and everything it's so filled with
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: The characters in this are just in our you know,
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: are fascinating and you know, stranger than fiction, but so
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: so real and yes, more normal than we probably give
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: them credit for.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: Right. I mean, it felt like I think as it
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: was the beginning of the pandemic too, and it felt
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: like anyway, the one the first thing that everybody was
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: doing together, you know, like in our homes all over
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: the country. It was bananas.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: That is true. That is Yeah, you're wrapped. That's a
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: great point. One hundred percent is super is like a
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: community culture. It was a cultural a cultural moment, We'll say.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: So when you were getting into this, what what part
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: of the real story, like, what was the main thing
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: that made you go, wait, wait, did this really happened?
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: Is this is this real?
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: Like?
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: What what's the biggest thing that you think of?
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: Only well in terms of this story in this world,
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: I think I don't. It's such a hard question. It's
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: like asking what's your favorite movie.
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: It's true, I hate that question when people ask you.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: That, because there's this world in and of itself is
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: so fascinating to me and it's beyond believability and it
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: but at the same time, I know it reminded me
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: some like, you know, don't don't take this the wrong way,
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: and it might might but uh or take it the
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: wrong way. But it reminded me a lot of similarities
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: with my family dynamics on a you know, on a
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: on a on a you know, on steroids. But there
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: I could could I could relate to some of the craziness.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: But but at the same time I couldn't. But what
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: what But to answer your question, I think, I think
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: the most unbelievable character, which but also there's so uh
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: pure and truthful to himself is Joe Exotic. I mean
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: that there was so many there's a lot you don't
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: see too uh in in the docu series that we
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: got to discover and uncover doing uh Joe versus Carrol.
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Like tell me, there's just so.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: Much you didn't get into each the history behind more
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: each individual character. It's just because everybody's got such a past,
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: and it's like the land of misfits and throwaways always
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: end up together, and it always ends up in the
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: beginning like perfect, right, loving, everything's good, understand each other,
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: you know, I feel connected, I'm understood, and then and
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: then shit's gonna blow up no matter what, because those
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: dynamics always ends up down the same path, I promise you, yep.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: And it's like has a lot to do with the
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: There's a another thing was the narcissism is what really
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: triggered me to I think watching this with Joe with
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: a lot of the characters, to be honest with Carol Baskin,
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: every single every everybody except for John Rinky, the guy
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: who I get to play in joeverse Yes, we could,
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: you know, to be just so full disclosure too. We weren't.
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: We weren't allowed to reach out or or talk to
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: or engage with with not only our characters that we
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: were playing who were still with us, but anybody from
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: the show.
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: Oh really, I mean production said.
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: Production production coming down from Peacock and be were they.
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: Worried about like literation?
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: Probably it's always about money. So this is definitely corporate. Corporate,
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: It really is corporate. Part of the business is like
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: no way, no how, you're not even you're not even
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: going there because the first thing I want to do
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: as an actor, and most of us did too, to
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: reach out to our our our person, the character, the
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: person that we're playing and trying to most of us
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: wanted to. But then you know, try to learn as
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: much as possible and show as much respect and be
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: as authentic and you know, it's part of what I
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: love to. You know, why I do this is to
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: to you know, you know, meet interesting, fascinating people and
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: I get to play them, which is another you know bonus.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: But he was so we weren't allowed to reach out
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: or talk to him or connect with with with anybody
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: that was involved with the show. That didn't prevent them
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: from reaching out sometimes, but they did.
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: They did people content.
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: So the reason so the reason why you asked me why,
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: I think because of litigation and potential you know, lawsuits.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: For whatever reason, I'm sure I would have like, you know,
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: have done something wrong and jeopardized the show. I you know,
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: I probably would have gotten tired. I probably would have
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: went called in the cage with Rinky with you know,
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: with not with the weenie dogs, and you know, and
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: probably never probably would have joined the circus and would
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: have worked that, you know whatever. I probably would have
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: tried to get a job.
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, become a part of their show instead of your show.
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: Research. You know what I'm saying. It was, But which
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: is a bummer that we that we couldn't so I so,
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: but I I uh, I don't know where I was
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: going with the story. I'm just saying, but I got
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: to play the character that I was most Yeah, he
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: was the most fascinating to me because he was seemed
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: like the most sane and normal first.
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's he certainly comes across as in both in
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: your portrayal in the series and in any of the.
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: Research that I did.
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: He really feels like the most grounded and kind of
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: morally centered. I mean, I I think probably everybody has
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: their own moral center, all of these people, but his
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: is sort of the most uh you know, conventionally sound
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: sound right, sane, sane.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: You know, normal but whatever that means. But I know
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: what we all understand that. But in all I know,
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: and it's fascinating too. He's you know, he's the least
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: victim on the at least what I experienced, in my opinion,
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: the least victim of and Saff. Also the Saff character
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: is amazing too, but out of anybody there. And he's
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: also a man that doesn't have any leg you know,
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: he's got two prosthetic legs, and that's a The dude
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: has the best attitude, so grateful, so loving, he's got
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: to you know, it's just that he was just a
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: lovely character to to to watch and also to try to,
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: you know, to to try to convey and try to emulate.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: But I hope one day that I can. You know,
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: when I'm scared, I want to reach out and and
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: also I'm so fast. There's so many questions too that.
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: I as, right, Yeah, what would you want to ask him?
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: What would you ask.
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: Him if you could jud so? First I think what
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: would I ask? A great question? I wouldn't want to
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: know what he really thinks and does he because he
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: was his big as he was Joe Exotic's biggest supporter.
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: MM hmm.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: Still is I.
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: Think like during the trial, you mean, even after every.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: Day everybody abandoned him and he kind of almost did
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: it for a little bit, but he comes back because
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: he really, truly, my opinion, truly loves him, loves Joe,
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: really cares deeply about him, and I could understand parts
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: of him that none none of them seemed to be
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: able to. And I want to understand what was it
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: about him that made you so loyal and love him
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: so much? At least that's what I can My feelings
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: were when I was experiencing and watching the documentary series
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: and all the other stuff that all the other information
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: that I was able to absorb. And also do you
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: think is he guilty? I mean there's a lot of
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: I mean, right, you don't know who to believe in,
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: what to believe in it, you know, guilty of the
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: charges that were you know, and what else was going on.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's a fascinating world that there's such a
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: dark underbelly.
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: Yes, I mean, I.
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: Just yeah, there's a lot of questions I want to ask.
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's another thing, yeah, because it feels like
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: in this series that they really kind of they're very
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: sympathetic to the Joe exotic character.
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: I mean kind of.
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: Of everyone, but really of him. I think there was
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: great effort put into, you know, really trying to show
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: his background on his first husband and how precious that
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: was and how meaningful. Like I it's like they really
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: are trying to humanize him to a pretty strong degree.
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: It feels like whereas in you know, the reality, it
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: just seems like, wow, this guy was.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: Dangerous exactly exactly. I agree with you. That's another thing too,
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: yet one hundred percent because I was aware, keenly aware
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: of portrayals of how people, you know, when we do
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: stories about people that are you know, that are real
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: and that's really occurred and whatnot, how he portray their
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: version of the story. And I think you're right, But
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: there's a dark side that you that you know, it's
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. He's such a fascinating character, super
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: flamboyantly over the top gay man who's scary, who could
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: kill you like with not you know what I mean
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: that the dynamic of those dualities.
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: Yes, it's such a duell of them.
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah. The same time, he's charming as well.
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: He's funny, right like when he's so self deprecating and
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: then but he's like a showman and and then is
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: like wrestling and kissing the tiger.
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: You're like, what is going on? Like how I good?
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: But he also turns. You see one moment and the
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: thing I remember from the docu series that he was
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: so loving the tigers, but he also got so there
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: was a moment where he got threatened and the tiger
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: was biting his shoes and pulling them on his leg
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: and he's literally firing his weapon off, not at the tigers,
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: but threatening. He's like, I'll shoot you in the face,
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: which I would probably, I mean, you're gonna get eaten
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: by a tiger. But you see that switch in him right,
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: like right that fast, not it didn't no hesitation whatsoever.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: It's like a that's the real another, real, true part
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: of this person's character and personality. But you know, and
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: you just multiply that with every single character in that world. Yeah,
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: it's it's gonna compe. There's going to be an explosion totally.
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: Do you think that from your perspective?
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: Do you think that the people at the zoo, everyone
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: like your ranking included, did they know that the lines
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: were being crossed with the animals or do you think
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: that they were and then it just sort of slowly
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: became normalized or that's the.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: Great I know, I try to I want I have
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: the same question. That's another you know thing I think
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: I would want to know or ask Rinky or any
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: other character that was there. Did you really not know?
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: You know, certain lines are being crossed and then you're
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: okay with it? And where's the line? And how far
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: do you go with before you before you you're you're
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: not okay with with with that? I think. I think
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: a lot of people try to deny and in not
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: believe in behavior because it's you know, I think, because
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: I really do you see the love of each you
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: know what I learned too, Like everybody that works at
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: this at the zoo and with the animals has a
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: true deep passion. Like there's so much love for these
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: animals and animals in general that I think that I
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: couldn't imagine like like you know, an uncomfortable, horrific you know,
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: you know, a behavior or a situation that especially coming
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: from somebody that they at one point looked up to
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: and probably loved them, but also like they they also
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: turned and grew to hate them real quick, right.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: So do you think with the you know, there there
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: is some confusion and controversy about the shooting of the
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: five tigers. I feel like in this series they kind
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: of portray it differently than what I've read. Was there
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: a discussion on set about that about what was the
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: motivation for that?
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: Good time? I remember it being a very and I
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: wasn't in this. I wasn't. I didn't participate in the
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: actual was that part of the rights? Yeah, those things,
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: But I remember it being very struggle for the creators
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: and the which story they didn't want to tell and
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: how they wanted to portray it. But from what I didn't,
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: from what I remember our show, it pretty much portrayed that,
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: you know, it really did happen.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but that and it seems like almost that Joe,
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: it was almost like a selfish thing of I'm getting
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: the zoo is being taken away from me, and I
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: don't want these tigers to live without me again. It
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: almost felt to me like a sympathetic sort of thing,
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: Whereas what it says in the press is that those
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: animals were too expensive to keep alive or something, and
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: people wanted to pay to see Little Cubs. Yeah, the
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: murder for higher part of this entire.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, uh.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: Story, both in your series and in real life. That
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: really seems like such a turning point. But yet Joe
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: seems to just talk about it very openly and consistently.
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: So do you think that was like a turning point
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: for anyone, like for your character? For RANKI do you?
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, how do you remedy that? Like he must
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: have had a response.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: Or for my character? What you mean and how I
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: portrayed it in the show and how I felt about it?
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: I felt like, you know, I have my own well
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: my I'm assuming again I never met with with mister Ranky,
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: and I don't know. And but for me, I there's
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: a part of me that has the same at the
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: same you know, feelings and animosity towards towards Carol Baskin.
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: Did I believe that that his friend could uh inherently
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: like really mean it? I don't think so. I don't
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: think he was capable of of believing that he's somebody
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: that and this is a choice that that that he
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: feels more like he was framed and set up and
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: that wasn't he would say it out loud and jokingly
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: he's a lot of bluster Joe exotic and that's what
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: I remember. I remember him saying that. Actually, John Rinky
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: in the in the in the documentary, I remember I
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: wrote it down in some of my old notes about
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: he's like kind of tunes him out and doesn't believe
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: of all everything that he says and all that, all
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: that bless So his part of dealing with him is
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: he kind of just said he just tune him out
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: and didn't didn't He's talking to a lot of what
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: he was obviously, you know, you know peacocking about as
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: they said, right, I.
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: Mean, and there is there there's a lot of loyalty
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: in that whole world. And why do you think people
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: stayed even as things got so.
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: Extra dream Well, my opinion is that they stayed and
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: they they're they're in the first place. But for the
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: for for the animals, like I said earlier, there is
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: a true deep, strong, uh like connection to animals and
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: love and care for these animals and also for each other.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: The bond that I saw and what I had, the
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: information that you know, it's a lot most of the
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: stuff that I was uh being able to watch and
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: read and see you know, you know, YouTube is a
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: great thing that they're their commitment to each other. There's
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: a special bond between everybody that worked there, and a
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: deep love and a deep, deep care for a lot
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: of them.
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think they felt, you know, an acceptance and
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: special bond and part of a special fraternity, especially working
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: with Joe exotic. I'm sure you know what I mean.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, all right, let's talk about episode six. Do
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: you remember what happens in episode six? Because a lot
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: happens in episode six.
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: I know, I remember, I remember a lot happening.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, John, it's when he finds out he's going to
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: be a dad with Amber. Joe totally loses his marbles
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: and you walk in on that confrontation.
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: Do you remember that? How was that to shoot?
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: Oh? I walk in on the confrontation when he got
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: I get tossed on the ground in the Gift Show.
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: Yes, Yes, that's funny.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: That's a great episode. There's a lot happening and that
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: so as much as possible things were based on and uh,
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: you know, shaped around the true events as much as
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: possible I was to shoot it. I mean, I overall
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: in general, I love filming this show. This this this series.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: It was so fun we you know and crazy to
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: reenact and kind of participate in this bizarre world and
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: to commit to it. And yeah, you know, we get
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: this is our license to be you know, this is
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: what a gift that we get to be crazy and
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: live these you know, these these lives that we were
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: like ye with while you know, we all watch a
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: series that we have and we get paid for it.
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: But the actors, I loved that we had such a
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: great cast amazing, Oh yeah, phenomenal, phenomenal everybody talent wise,
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: which is good people.
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: Good humans. Oh that's nice.
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, really good humans. And it was such a you know,
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: and it's hard and sometimes I'll be honest with you,
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: it's not always like that.
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I don't believe me.
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: I know, I've worked with some wackos.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: It's part of the you know, that's part of the get.
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: But we uh, we just we just had a lot
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: of fun and uh in you know, and there was
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: so many different scenes. Again, but I remember that show
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: that seemed was that was funny, man. I mean there
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: was a lot of laughs that day too, and it
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: was intense and me, being a stunt man, I had
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: to do my own. I had to do a fall
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: and I had to act like I had no legs
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: and do an act like fall. I don't know, it
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: was sexual, like there's all these weird sex toys in
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: that shop and stuff that fall on me and I
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: throw a condom in someone's face and during their take
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: and with Joe Exotics face on it running for office.
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: I don't know what it was. There was all these
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: weird little gifts in the choch Key shop and you
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: like a like a dildo or a penis on my
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: face or something. I'm like, what's going on here?
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, You're like what am I doing?
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: And it was also intense acting by everybody on It
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: was like, you know, like Sam Kay's character John Finley,
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry in Amber. I mean it's just a really
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: good I mean, I love that John Cameron Mitchell is like, oh,
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: so I've been a fan since New York in the nineties.
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: Yes, me too, me too. Yeah, Hedwig is Headwig yep.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: And but you can really feel in this show that
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: every every character there is like a real humanity that
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: the actors brought to them, you know, without because they
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: could all be caricatures, right, because they're so big in
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: certain ways, but everybody like you really feel like there's
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: a heart behind everyone.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: Say that you nailed it. So Eton frank All, the
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: showrunner that said that that's the probably why everybody, each
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: individual cast made probably was was cast for their part
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: for that role because they they they had a sort
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: of of an empathy or or an empathic part of
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: their characters interpretation or their audition. I know that for sure,
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: Like they made a you know, a note of that
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: for me. And we talked about it about having well,
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: I wish the word I was looking what I wanted
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: to quote him, but yeah, just compassion. He said he
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: felt like each character they had there's a there's room
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: for some compassion in every character, and that's what they
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: he was looking for, even in every every And I'm
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: trying to think of a character that that does not
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: have those moments where even the darkest character will have
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: a moment of empathy or compassion that you should have
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: or have for or see a little bit of it.
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: I think so. But I think that was a you know,
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: in an intended an intentional casting uh you know thought
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: from Eton, Yeah, which I love. It's like that's makes
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: it that makes it way more interesting, Yes, because you do.
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: You know, you end up some of these moments, and
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: you know, some of these characters, even even even the
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: most deplorable, annoying, awful human beings and characters in the show,
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: there's moments where I actually have some sort of compassion
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: for like you name it, h I have a lot
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: of compassion for for Carol Baskin's husband. Oh boy, I'm
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: just saying, but every even Carroll Baskin, I.
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: Have, yes, I mean, well, her husband also seems like
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: so just like unbelievably good natured.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: It's too much, man, there's no way. It's too much,
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: so much, it's like unbelievable. It's it's like you can't
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: write that stuff, like you can't. I mean, it was
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: interested to see Kyle McLaughlin play this character, who's, in
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: my another one of the coolest dudes on the planet,
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: one of my favorite human beings.
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: Ah. That's great to hear because I love his work.
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: But I've never met him. The biggest sweetheart, he's awesome.
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: Get him on, He's the greatest.
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: Oh, I love hearing that.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, everybody, there's not one. There wasn't one, you know,
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: there wasn't one weak link you know, I don't know
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: how to articulate, but yeah, we see, how are you
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: going to play this dude? Because he's so likable and
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: so cool Kyle is and yeah this this this husband,
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: he's the victim. I mean you just that though dynamic
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: between Carol Baskin and her husband it's crazy. It's incredible
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: to me. It's like, oh my lord, they've got they
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: could scare me the most of those show. He scares
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: me the probably the.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: Most, really her husband, why because he's so willing to
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: sort of do her bidding.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: Silent assassin man, the little creeper. I don't know, there's
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: something about him, but just I don't know. I hope
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: this doesn't get out and upset.
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: But silent assassin, little creeper.
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: Uh oh, that kind of behavior and stuff is more
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: scary to me than the overtly like psycho paths, you
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: know what I mean.
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: And the shotgun for Tampa or whatever he called his
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: rifle that was like the one we're going to Tampa.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: Did that Howard did or who that?
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: Joe said like, oh.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, by the way, that wasn't our show. Yeah
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: that's funny. So yeah, no, I'd rather have that. I
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: feel safer than that kind of craziness then the other boys.
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean?
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: Yes, I do, I do, because you know what to
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: there's something about consistency and you know what to expect.
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: It's like hitting you in the face.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: There you go.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: So even you know, speaking about this having the compassionate
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: side and all the character of Travis, who is one
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: of Joe's has bins and then accidentally commit suicide, all
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: of it he's and he is also a.
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: Very sympathetic character. I think.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: So was that like a big shift in both the
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: storytelling but also in the reality, Like, tell me your
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: thoughts on that.
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: So my character, John Rinkey's character had a real connection
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: with Travis in the show, Carol, and I think so
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: maybe in real life too. But it was a big
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: moment in a shift in that story for our show
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: and I think in their in the history for the
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: in reality too, I think people started to wake up
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: a little bit too, certainly, you know, I don't know,
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: to wake up some of the dark side of Joe's
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: character real personality, I think, I think a lot. I
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: think I think Travis's death shifted a lot of people's
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: how they perceive things.
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: Right, I like, it's impossible to kind of brush that
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: off or as you said how John described things like
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: I kind of tuned him out, Like you can't really
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: tune that out.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that, you know, Travis was a
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: very beloved person on eisde from what I understand. For
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: Joe to move on real fast from that also really
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: wasn't a good look either. I think he got married
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: to somebody else, like a month or two later.
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: I think Dylan, Yes, he married Dylan Dylan.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: There you go, Yes, which was h you know, interesting,
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: but yeah, that that, you know, But I love my
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: One of my favorite scenes and for me in the
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: show was with Sam Keeley's character when I go back
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: to to visit him to go attend the trial, No way,
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: no how, and he asked what, Mike, what I missed
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: and or asked him what he misses and he misses
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: the alligators and whatnot, and my character says, I miss Travis,
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: but yeah, real deep connection.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: That was a beautiful moment in the series. I was
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: going to bring that up right before you said it.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: It's a lovely moment. You really feel like this man,
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: really like it's in your throat, you know, it's it's like, yeah,
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: it was.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's one of my favorite moments too from my
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: for me, for my character and for for Sam his
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: character as well. And just don't run the story overall
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: because he's he's he's expressing in in the most vulnerable way,
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: some a lot of truth, I think, a lot of wisdom.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: He's kind of you know, as Rinky does. Uh, he's
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: laying down some some wisdom and and some you know,
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: pure like you know, honesty and pureness. And it's yeah,
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: good moment for that guy.
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: I thought, Yes, I thought so too.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: They just said to me here that it was two
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: months after so Travis died in October and Joe got
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: married in December.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: Oh geez, I mean, come on now, that's horrible. And
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: I think I heard remember like one moment the only
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: people at attended the wedding, which one of them was
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: Travis's mom. Really yeah, crazy.
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: I'm telling you, gosh.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was just thinking of Chelsea. Chelsea right, Alexandra Jensen,
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: who's phenomenal.
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: Absolutely, she's terrific.
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: So good, her character is so fascinating. I wanted more
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: of her too. Her character really calls him out.
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: For Yes, she's the one who's living with his mom.
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: Y right, Yes, phenomenal actress. She's so good.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and she's just that she's like a secret sniper
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: too because she's not taking anything.
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: Favorite characters. One of my other favorite moments of the
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: host show is her stuff with him, but she's able
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: to really challenge him and call him out on his
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: in a way that really sinks in.
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: I think, yes, yes, and like it sinks in for him.
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: Yes, for him, That's what I meant for him. Yeah. Also,
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: my buddy dumps Dean Winners Jeff Low he's Dean's a
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: good friend of mine.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: Oh, he's so good too. In this you just want
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: to punch him in the face.
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: He's so awful and.
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: He's so great in that scene when the FBI comes
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: where he tries to switch it, like, oh Joe exotics
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: a real bad guy, Like just take care of him
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: however you want to, And they're like, excuse me, sir,
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: I feel like you've been arrested for a few things yourself.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: Do you think the show seems to give more backstory
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: about Joe and Carroll than the documentary. I mean, it
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: definitely does, But did that change how you saw the
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: dynamic between the two of them.
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: Between Joe and Carol. Yeah, you know, I think it did.
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: I think it did. I felt like there's so much
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: more to you know. Yeah, it's interesting our show. Our
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: show is based on the podcast, right, yeah, and not
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: the actual uh docu series. But then I'm sure we
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: did it, uh you know, our own uh you know,
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: interpretation and information and research, and but I feel like
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: there's I mean, I don't know. I feel like there's
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: this more for me. It's an impossible question to answer
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: because I just there there's so many unanswered questions and
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: I want to see I need to know more. I
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: want to know more. I want more. I'm not I'm not.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: You know, there's and it's I know the story is
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: still going on too. There's gotta be more. I guarantee
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: you there's more down the road. But I let you know,
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: there's just so much to uncover and then you can't
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: do it and just want and you know, I don't
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: know how many I forget how many episodes we did?
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: Eight nine eight? Yeah, eight episode limited series.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: You know there's I mean, there could be a season
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: two because now he's got married again in jail and
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: then his partner I think was taken away by ice,
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: like you can't what Yes, I just read it last night.
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: That you can't right this right And his.
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: Husband left did a sort of abstract drawing for him,
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: and he's like, so, I guess he might be on
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: Instagram from prison, like I can't honestly, like just keeps
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: going right and he's obsessed with getting married.
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: I guess, Like it's kind of funny.
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: Well obviously, so yeah, yeah, well they say too, he's
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: only happy and that's what this is, how Rinky is
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: too done. Now it's all coming back to me. There
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: was a moment when he's the only person that was
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: okay with him getting married so fast after Travis, ironically
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: because it makes Joe happy. Joe snapped out and he
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: met Dylan, he was himself again, and then you know
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: that he's okay with that, but he yes, the person
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: that has to be he's so insecure and so it's
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: just so wounded and just so oof that he's you know,
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: he needs he needs to have another, you know, he
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: needs to have needs another.
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: Yes, it's there, it's he's active on Instagram from federal prison.
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: In prison. Still just yeah, that's crazy. I mean there's
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: a that's a that's a nurse.
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: There's a lot of narcissistic.
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: Top I mean to the end degree. I mean, I
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: know a lot of narcissistic people. Trust me related to
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: a couple of them. But don't go that's a separate.
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: Podcast, right, I'm here for it.
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: We'll call it therapy. How's that? Yeah? We uh, but
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: that narcissism is just crazy and a lot of them
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: have to say, but yeah, yeah, that's.
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: Joe claims that he sends six to ten posts a
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: day via mail from prison to his team to be
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: posted and saying what is posted on my social media
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: comes from me and me.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: Only are there photographs with this?
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: I mean that we're gonna do a I don't know.
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: I know what you and I are doing. As soon
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: as we're done talking.
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: I'm going to go on Instagram and search. That's crazy. Yeah,
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: I mean, what's so funny? That's and remind me to
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: be careful, like I remember what what's the the character's
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: name that played Joel? Joel? Joel played him. He's the big,
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: heavy set guy with the funky hair.
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: Oh yes, the one that turned FBI like witness garretson.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: Yes, dude, he was he he reached out he said,
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: super did totally.
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: Wait to you. He reached out to you?
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah me personally?
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: What did he say?
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: Instagram and DM me? And then I thank god I
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: had talked to Eton frankol our producer and say do
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: not engage. You cannot be you know, because this is
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: pretty early on. It's when I posted. I'm not a
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: big social media person, but I did. I did post
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: about work. And when I posted that, I was I
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: was so happy, so proud and so stoked to get
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: this gig. I posted that, you know, I got this
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: and I'm gonna be playing ranking and you know they
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: did that whatever Variety article. Yes, And he's like it's
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: really him too. He's like, hey man, I'm still and
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: so I play this. Nice to see you, congratulations on
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: the job. That's awesome, but too bad you're playing such
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: a dick. And then he went off and I'm like,
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: rip of the bitch, big yeah, I just this went
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: on and on and ripping him a new and I'm like,
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: oh wait.
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: But he's the one that became a witness for the FBI.
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: The hip hop He's like, there's a backstabb or I
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: can I'm going to go back and read it. I
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: still saved it in Uh. The projection is a classic projection.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: We called him backstab and unloyal all this other stuff.
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: I'm like, god, this You're the first and only person
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: to ever that's ever it's early on or No, it
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: was actually after we got down to Australia to shoot
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: it months and then when everybody started people other people
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: were getting u uh, you know, some certain characters were
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: reaching out and people in that world, some of the
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: other actors and people were on the show. But I
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: just thought it was phonny that that guy. I haven't
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: It's like.
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: Such a really like baiting you, right, like, hey, hey,
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: great job.
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: Anyway, Yeah, I was, you know I would I wanted
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: to reach out so bad. You know that your version, dude,
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: I want to hear what you got to say.
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: That must have been so hard to not be allowed
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: to respond.
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: That would be hard. But also along with the I
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: don't know if I said this early meant to but
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: that not just the the tigious part, but also like
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: the I think that world is so scary and unpredictable
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: and they're pretty you know, you don't want to really
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: get too caught up or engage in that kind of
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: that kind of world, uh, at least from my experience,
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: because it's you know, it's all funny games, but there's
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: some serious starred people, con man professional con artists. But yes, anyway,
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: I will mab something. We'll do We'll do a podcast
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: and have somebody. Oh that's an idea. I should do
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: a podcast with the characters, the actor and the real person.
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Oh I'd love to have both of you on here.
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: God.
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: Oh wow, Well this has been so much fun. Thank
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: you so much for your time and for talking with me.
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: And you did beautiful work in this series.
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: And it's a really interesting series because it's like a
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: little bit fantastical, it's a little bit you know, the
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: way it's shot is on you usual in many ways,
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: like it's a it's an interesting, you know, kind of
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: commentary and then with also these very real moments in it.
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: So you did a beautiful job.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: No, I appreciate you. Thank you so much. That means
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: a lot.
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, thank you, Jovi.
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: Carol is streaming on Peacock you can watch it now.
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: And thank you so much.
• 38:22
  Speaker 3: Brian.
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: Oh, thank you