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The PlayStation Problem · Critical Error

• 0:00
  Jake, aren't you getting tired of all
• 0:01
  these kind of like mid firstparty
• 0:03
  PlayStation games?
• 0:05
  >> No.
• 0:09
  >> No. Absolutely not. Oh, did you think I
• 0:12
  was going to say yes?
• 0:13
  >> Oh, you know,
• 0:14
  >> were you trying to start a whole podcast
• 0:24
  coming out in the fall?
• 0:28
  A critical error is an error which the
• 0:30
  OS cannot reasonably ignore. Jake
• 0:33
  Steinberg is a streamer and writer and
• 0:35
  certified yapper. Complimentary. Peter
• 0:38
  Hunt spit tech
• 0:40
  is a YouTuber, journalist, and certified
• 0:42
  yapper. Derogatory. These are the things
• 0:45
  they cannot reasonably ignore. You know,
• 0:47
  every so often I come across this take
• 0:49
  online from somebody who's like talking
• 0:51
  about the PS5 price going up and they'll
• 0:54
  be like, "Oh, but it doesn't matter cuz
• 0:56
  like PlayStation has no games."
• 0:59
  >> Yeah. I always find that to be kind of
• 1:00
  weird because like they do have games.
• 1:02
  Like
• 1:02
  >> I feel like they have games too.
• 1:04
  >> Yeah.
• 1:05
  >> I find it to be kind of a weird thing
• 1:06
  because I understand like the like I get
• 1:08
  the joke but it's it's kind of like the
• 1:11
  joke is not relevant anymore because I
• 1:13
  think they do have games. But I also
• 1:15
  believe that there are people out there
• 1:17
  who do believe and feel like PlayStation
• 1:20
  5 has no games. And I would like to hear
• 1:23
  from those people. I do kind of like
• 1:25
  want to better render my understanding
• 1:27
  and see the light of where they are
• 1:29
  coming from when they look at their PS5
• 1:31
  and they're just like, "Oh my god, it is
• 1:33
  a desert out here." Because to be
• 1:35
  completely honest with you,
• 1:37
  >> I feel like I should feel that way. I
• 1:40
  feel like I'm about as close to feeling
• 1:43
  that way as one who who is like hardcore
• 1:45
  into video games can feel to be honest
• 1:48
  with you because I look at the games
• 1:51
  that I'm like playing on my PlayStation
• 1:52
  5. It's a lot of multiplayer stuff. It's
• 1:55
  maybe stuff that's like third party
• 1:56
  available on other consoles and then
• 1:58
  maybe every now and then there is that
• 2:01
  first party hit. But largely something
• 2:03
  that I've been feeling more and more
• 2:05
  over time is this sense and again I'm
• 2:08
  I'm curious if other people have this
• 2:09
  sense as well that the Sony PlayStation
• 2:13
  first party sheen the the PlayStation
• 2:16
  Studios if you will game is starting to
• 2:19
  lose its luster for me. And yes,
• 2:22
  >> the the further we go into the PS5's
• 2:25
  life, the more I feel like I am lacking
• 2:30
  enthusiasm for everything that this
• 2:32
  company has coming out. Something is
• 2:34
  something is missing for me. We we talk
• 2:36
  a lot on this podcast about kind of the
• 2:39
  the failings on the Xbox side of the
• 2:42
  console ecosystem, but I think like when
• 2:45
  I examine the PlayStation side,
• 2:47
  something that I'm noticing is almost
• 2:50
  like I don't even know what they could
• 2:52
  show me at this point that would really
• 2:54
  light me up in the same way that like a
• 2:57
  new Nintendo game lights me up in in the
• 2:59
  way that like I see a Nintendo game and
• 3:01
  I'm like trying to understand it. I'm
• 3:03
  trying to be what kind of game is this?
• 3:05
  I we talked about that that not very
• 3:07
  good Splatoon Raiders trailer last week,
• 3:10
  but even that had a quality to it where
• 3:13
  I'm like, what are you doing here? What
• 3:15
  are you is this something? Is this And
• 3:17
  that kind of serves to pull me in. It's
• 3:20
  like a bid for connection through
• 3:21
  curiosity. And I'm finding that that
• 3:23
  that kind of bid for connection with
• 3:25
  PlayStation is not based in curiosity,
• 3:29
  intellectual or emotional. It is instead
• 3:31
  based in recognition. And that's
• 3:34
  starting to Yeah.
• 3:35
  >> So I think I think um people who are
• 3:37
  like really diehard Nintendo fans are
• 3:39
  actually very similar to people who are
• 3:40
  like dieh hard uh like PlayStation fans.
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  I just think that like um what they are
• 3:46
  looking for is different. So like with
• 3:47
  it with Nintendo you identified like
• 3:49
  okay uh people who like are going to
• 3:51
  play every single Nintendo game. I think
• 3:52
  they're really excited uh first of all
• 3:54
  to see the franchises they've been
• 3:55
  seeing since they were kids, right? But
• 3:57
  it's also like I think Nintendo is is
• 3:58
  pretty inventive with a lot of its uh IP
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  especially like right now it's kind of
• 4:02
  in a weird era where it's like trying a
• 4:05
  bunch of new stuff and um so I think the
• 4:07
  thing that people are really like
• 4:08
  excited about with these Nintendo games
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  it's like well I know that at the very
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  least Nintendo's going to be taking some
• 4:13
  swings about some of this stuff right
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  and uh Sony like first party stuff I
• 4:18
  think for the most part the people who
• 4:20
  are really really diehard uh Sony fans
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  are like well at the very least I know
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  that I'm going to see uh some well-
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  rendered faces, some beautiful vistas,
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  and probably some third person, some
• 4:31
  like competent thirdp person action,
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  right? But I think that like um the
• 4:36
  thing about those like PlayStation first
• 4:38
  party like die hard fans is that because
• 4:42
  so much of that just is like because so
• 4:45
  much of the desire is something that's
• 4:47
  kind of like I'm not trying to say copy
• 4:48
  and pasteable because obviously they're
• 4:50
  all different but like
• 4:52
  >> the actual attraction to those games to
• 4:54
  me as is from my perspective seems to be
• 4:56
  just the fact that they look really
• 4:58
  nice. Do you know what I mean? And not
• 4:59
  that they are inventing new things a
• 5:01
  whole lot of I like that you you listed
• 5:03
  kind of those elements that are
• 5:04
  consistent across the Sony first party
• 5:06
  games because I think what's happening
• 5:07
  there, what you identified for me is
• 5:09
  that there is this kind of noticeable
• 5:11
  house style that Sony games appear to
• 5:14
  have. And if you like before you even
• 5:15
  get into whether or not you think these
• 5:17
  games are like good or not, I think that
• 5:20
  there is something that like um that
• 5:22
  third person narrative forward
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  highfidelity, the performance captured
• 5:25
  game, the heavy emphasis on the
• 5:27
  cinematic presentation. you think of
• 5:29
  like um you know the the Last of Us
• 5:31
  games, God of War games, Horizon,
• 5:33
  Spider-Man
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  game aside and what you think about
• 5:36
  those games, the the system of delivery
• 5:39
  delivery and kind of what they're what
• 5:40
  they're chasing is really similar. So I
• 5:44
  think even even without being like, oh,
• 5:46
  PlayStation washed, PlayStation Bad, I
• 5:48
  think the fact that like all of these
• 5:49
  different studios at PlayStation, the
• 5:51
  fact that they for me it feels like
• 5:53
  they're chasing the same thing. So what
• 5:56
  the game is is just like converging into
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  one thing which is eliminating like so
• 6:01
  much enthusiasm for me because like
• 6:03
  alternatively what is what is like
• 6:05
  Nintendo chasing
• 6:06
  >> right that's the thing is is I think the
• 6:08
  thing that Nintendo is chasing at least
• 6:10
  right now again uh is I think they are
• 6:13
  chasing like innovation in gameplay
• 6:16
  systems
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  sometimes they're successful sometimes
• 6:19
  they're not so successful but at the end
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  of the day I do think that that's what
• 6:22
  um
• 6:22
  >> they are chasing which means that like
• 6:25
  each of those individual games is going
• 6:27
  to have a different uh goal, I think,
• 6:29
  and and it's you're going to walk away
• 6:30
  feeling a different thing, whereas I do
• 6:33
  think that um so much of the PlayStation
• 6:35
  first party lineup is just chasing like
• 6:38
  HBO drama series,
• 6:40
  >> you know, and there are exceptions. And
• 6:42
  here's the thing, in the comments,
• 6:43
  people are going to be like, "Peter,
• 6:44
  >> Astrobot
• 6:45
  >> Marathon." And I'm like, "Yeah, I can't
• 6:48
  wait to play Marathon."
• 6:49
  >> Like that's the thing is it's like
• 6:50
  that's great. or they you know that
• 6:52
  Marvel took fighting game is coming out
• 6:54
  later this year and it's like right
• 6:55
  right no but what makes that interesting
• 6:57
  and I think what uh is is going on there
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  and that like draws so much attention
• 7:02
  and and interest is that it is different
• 7:05
  and that that is not going to be the
• 7:06
  exact sort of same flavor of video game
• 7:08
  that I think Sony is really really
• 7:10
  interested in in sort of returning to.
• 7:13
  Yeah. Yeah, and I do think it's worth
• 7:14
  mentioning too, just to get ahead of it,
• 7:16
  that like, you know, Marathon developed
• 7:18
  by Bungie, of course, acquired by Sony,
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  not quite the same, you know, that's a a
• 7:24
  property that existed before Sony bought
• 7:26
  them. Not quite the same as like kind of
• 7:28
  um you know, that document was not first
• 7:30
  typed in the Sony PlayStation font, if
• 7:32
  you will.
• 7:32
  >> Yes.
• 7:33
  >> And uh you know, Marvel took Fighting
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  Souls uh developed by Arc System Works,
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  who people you know, it is uh it is
• 7:39
  being I think published by PlayStation.
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  I was going to say that's not that's not
• 7:42
  a first party game, is it? It's just
• 7:43
  >> No, no, no. Yeah. Yeah. So, I think like
• 7:46
  the thing that I'm kind of interested in
• 7:49
  examining a little bit here is the
• 7:51
  relationship. You know, we talk a lot
• 7:53
  about like how how critics talk about
• 7:55
  games on this show. And I'm almost more
• 7:58
  curious in the fan relationship in this
• 8:01
  particular instance than I am in how
• 8:03
  critics talk about these games. Uh
• 8:05
  because something that I've seen
• 8:06
  emerging and maybe this is imagined, so
• 8:10
  I'm kind of leaning on the comments more
• 8:11
  to see if they feel me in this episode,
• 8:13
  but something that I have felt with Sony
• 8:16
  PlayStation games and something that I
• 8:18
  have similarly felt with Nintendo is
• 8:20
  that there is a growing capitalist
• 8:24
  desire to make sure that the games that
• 8:26
  you are investing in are al are more
• 8:29
  than games. They're also multimedia
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  properties. So the
• 8:33
  >> yes this is this is yes continue.
• 8:35
  >> So I think there's like stuff that falls
• 8:39
  to the wayside because that is what you
• 8:41
  are pursuing. So for example the the
• 8:44
  ghost of sushima ghost of yote things. I
• 8:46
  think we've already got like a series or
• 8:48
  a movie in development for those. Um
• 8:50
  same with like Horizon. And then when
• 8:53
  you look at a studio like Insomniac, who
• 8:56
  knows when we're going to get another
• 8:57
  Ratchet and Clank game because we've got
• 9:00
  >> right based on that like roadmap leak
• 9:02
  that they that came out.
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  >> So, right, and there's a there's like a
• 9:05
  relationship there with Sony and Marvel
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  where like I I kind of get what's going
• 9:08
  on there. So, but what I think is kind
• 9:12
  of interesting here is that I think if
• 9:13
  you look at Nintendo and you look at the
• 9:15
  Super Mario Galaxy movie, there is a
• 9:19
  read of that movie that I think is like
• 9:21
  they were not interested in making a
• 9:23
  good movie. They were interested in kind
• 9:26
  of brand appeal so that they could
• 9:29
  eventually sell you a video game. But
• 9:32
  >> but there is no video game made in the
• 9:36
  image of a movie. There is no Ratchet
• 9:39
  and Clank the movie the game.
• 9:41
  >> Wasn't there Am I crazy? Wasn't there?
• 9:44
  >> No. No. There there is, but not for for
• 9:46
  Nintendo. There is.
• 9:47
  >> Oh, I see. I see what you're saying.
• 9:48
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 9:48
  >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, like when the
• 9:50
  Mario Galaxy movie comes out, the thing
• 9:51
  that they're pointing at you to buy is
• 9:54
  uh Super Mario Wonder Bell Park,
• 9:57
  Nintendo Switch 2, whatever that stupid
• 9:59
  thing is. And um the Mario Galaxy 1 and
• 10:01
  2 connection. And
• 10:03
  >> like there are rumors that within the
• 10:05
  next week a Star Fox game is going to
• 10:07
  get revealed. Now, will we find out that
• 10:09
  the movie used the Star Fox design that
• 10:12
  they have in for this game? Sure,
• 10:14
  probably. But do you but like did is
• 10:16
  this new Star Fox game going to be like,
• 10:18
  oh, they tried to make it like a movie
• 10:20
  so that they could make a movie out of
• 10:22
  this Star Fox game? No.
• 10:23
  >> Right. No, but like when you look at
• 10:25
  >> absolutely not
• 10:26
  >> something like that Last of Us TV show,
• 10:28
  right? The reason is I mean the language
• 10:31
  of the Last of Us game is that of an HBO
• 10:34
  television drama, right? And so it's
• 10:36
  pushing you then to say, "If you really
• 10:38
  liked this, you're going to want to
• 10:39
  check out this video game or vice versa
• 10:42
  because they speak similar languages."
• 10:44
  Um, and do you see how the kind of the
• 10:46
  the PlayStation games are chasing the
• 10:48
  language of movies and TV, whereas
• 10:51
  Nintendo, they're doing the movies and
• 10:53
  TV thing, but the games, they're they're
• 10:56
  kind it feels like the games are over
• 10:57
  there just doing what they've always
• 10:58
  done to me.
• 10:59
  >> Yes. No, I I would I would agree. um
• 11:02
  where uh there is sort of this
• 11:04
  consolidation I feel of like the
• 11:06
  PlayStation first party game uh with
• 11:10
  like the idea of trying to be taken
• 11:14
  really seriously because we take drama
• 11:17
  serious very seriously. We take prestige
• 11:19
  film very very seriously and it's like
• 11:23
  uh I I think that is what is pushing so
• 11:26
  much of the sort of like design ideas of
• 11:28
  these sorts of games. You know what I
• 11:30
  mean? because I think that uh players
• 11:34
  view PlayStation games as very serious
• 11:37
  >> because they're being told that they're
• 11:39
  very serious because they're using the
• 11:40
  language of what we uh like I think the
• 11:43
  general public views as like a serious
• 11:45
  medium, you know?
• 11:47
  >> Definitely. And I think uh kind of
• 11:49
  looking at Returnal and Sorrowos is
• 11:51
  maybe a really good example here because
• 11:54
  just for just for clarity, you have
• 11:56
  played and beaten Soros.
• 11:58
  >> Platinum for Sorrowos. Bro, real gamer
• 12:02
  on the pod. I know.
• 12:04
  >> Nice, dude. Cuz you're you're doing
• 12:05
  you're doing like guides for it, though.
• 12:06
  So that's like
• 12:08
  >> you you had to ma you had to master it.
• 12:09
  Yeah.
• 12:10
  >> Um you had to master the the Soros Blade
• 12:12
  as it were.
• 12:12
  >> I had to I was dodging through all those
• 12:14
  projectiles and whatever.
• 12:16
  >> So I think that there is probably an
• 12:17
  argument to be made about how Returnal
• 12:20
  is that language of movies and TV. Maybe
• 12:25
  Returnal as a game leans more into the
• 12:27
  language of video games. And then Soros
• 12:30
  comes along and says, "Okay, some of
• 12:32
  that video game inherent language, we're
• 12:35
  going to push that aside for the sake of
• 12:37
  injecting some movies and TV language as
• 12:40
  is the house style." Would that be a
• 12:42
  >> because it's it's this thing where like
• 12:44
  um Sorrowos leans really heavily on a
• 12:47
  lot of the things that Returnal did. Um
• 12:50
  but in my opinion you can see the way
• 12:52
  that now that Housemark is a first uh
• 12:55
  party studio when obvious so Returnal
• 12:57
  was published by Sony Interactive
• 12:59
  Entertainment but it was not but House
• 13:00
  Mark was not owned by Sony and then now
• 13:03
  they are owned by Sony and I think you
• 13:05
  can really really really see that
• 13:07
  influence in that this is a game that uh
• 13:09
  is uh I would call like pretty chatty.
• 13:11
  there's like a lot of like dialogue and
• 13:13
  stuff like that and there was you know
• 13:14
  some of that in Returnal certainly but
• 13:16
  it was uh largely like very moody and
• 13:18
  kind of quiet often times uh and this is
• 13:21
  to me very much like no we have an actor
• 13:23
  that you know from TV or movie I think
• 13:25
  more he's more of a TV actor um but it's
• 13:28
  like you you recognize who this guy is
• 13:30
  and he is going to be the face of this
• 13:33
  game and his performance is going to be
• 13:35
  the thing that really draws people in
• 13:37
  and I think it's at a detriment to what
• 13:40
  the actual game is because then also
• 13:41
  though it loses as you were talking
• 13:43
  about a lot of the elements of Returnal
• 13:45
  that were um very interested in um like
• 13:47
  being a rogike and and stuff like that
• 13:49
  and Sorrowos ditches a lot of those I
• 13:52
  think in favor of more wide mass appeal
• 13:55
  which I can understand like I do get why
• 13:57
  that happened but at the end of the day
• 14:00
  I think it makes for just a much more
• 14:02
  bland video game you know what I mean?
• 14:04
  >> I think it's Yeah. And I think it's also
• 14:05
  one that we just um we understand a lot
• 14:08
  more quickly. It is one. Yeah.
• 14:11
  >> You play you play Sorrowos for about 30
• 14:13
  minutes and you go, "Got it."
• 14:14
  >> Yeah.
• 14:15
  >> Thank you. Easy.
• 14:16
  >> And and I think that even even what you
• 14:18
  mentioned about kind of like using a a
• 14:20
  TV actor to like sell your product is a
• 14:24
  marketing strategy very much carried
• 14:26
  over from movies and TV. 100%. That is
• 14:29
  that's how you sell a movie. It's like,
• 14:30
  "Oh, Timothy Shia is in this. Get on
• 14:32
  board." Yeah. Uh, so I think even kind
• 14:35
  of that approach demonstrates to me
• 14:37
  maybe like a like a spiritual issue at
• 14:41
  in terms of how they how maybe
• 14:43
  PlayStation views its own games. Yeah.
• 14:45
  >> Um, and I guess that's what I'm kind of
• 14:46
  like most interested in because at the
• 14:48
  end of the day, maybe maybe the ultimate
• 14:50
  truth
• 14:53
  >> is that people just like this more than
• 14:55
  not. Maybe like
• 14:56
  >> this is this is like the thing that like
• 14:57
  is most interesting to me and maybe you
• 14:59
  literally just said that, but it's it's
• 15:00
  this idea that like Okay. Okay. Okay.
• 15:03
  It is. This is like not a novel
• 15:05
  conversation to be like it kind of seems
• 15:06
  like these Sony games are are like want
• 15:09
  to be movies. Not a novel idea, right?
• 15:12
  No, not at all. Not at all.
• 15:13
  >> But I think what I'm like I'm fascinated
• 15:14
  by is it's like yeah, but that's is this
• 15:17
  just what people really want? Is like is
• 15:19
  this all anyone really wants? And you
• 15:21
  know, is Soros going to sell better than
• 15:24
  Returnal because it adopts this
• 15:27
  language? I think the answer is yes. But
• 15:30
  I I find it fascinating that that's the
• 15:32
  case.
• 15:34
  >> Wow. I guess that's so that's like a
• 15:36
  tough conversation, right? Because
• 15:37
  Returnal, I think it came out very early
• 15:39
  in the PS5's life and there's like a lot
• 15:42
  of um there's a lot of like like
• 15:43
  marketing stuff around Saros that I
• 15:46
  think is probably going to help it. More
• 15:47
  people have PS5s, of course. Yeah,
• 15:48
  certainly.
• 15:49
  >> Um yeah. So, so I don't know if like the
• 15:52
  the
• 15:54
  >> Yeah, it's it's tough. like how do I
• 15:55
  really get the the
• 15:59
  is Soros on stage for game of the year
• 16:01
  at the end of the year?
• 16:04
  >> Can I be honest with you? I have it I
• 16:05
  find it very difficult to tell um based
• 16:07
  on sort of like the game review score
• 16:10
  inflation stuff that goes on. You know
• 16:12
  what I mean? Like I don't know how
• 16:13
  people feel about it like in general yet
• 16:15
  because it's not out until I think
• 16:17
  tomorrow.
• 16:18
  >> So it actually is out for for people.
• 16:22
  Dude, I was so surprised. I had never
• 16:23
  seen it. I didn't know Sony games
• 16:24
  actually did that. I couldn't believe
• 16:26
  that was on there.
• 16:27
  >> Yeah, I I saw that yesterday. I was
• 16:28
  like, whoa.
• 16:29
  >> Yeah,
• 16:29
  >> sign of the times.
• 16:30
  >> I know. Sorry.
• 16:32
  >> I mean, that's like that's like an
• 16:33
  Assassin's Creed Ubisoft thing from like
• 16:36
  8 years ago. You know what I mean?
• 16:37
  They're like play Assassin's Creed
• 16:39
  Odyssey right now. And it's like, whoa.
• 16:41
  >> Yeah. So, I don't know like how pe like
• 16:44
  general people feel about it, but if
• 16:46
  everyone who plays this feels the way uh
• 16:49
  that a lot of the reviews seem to have
• 16:50
  felt about it, then I think the answer
• 16:51
  is yes. Um, and also, you know, we
• 16:54
  talked about this a little bit last year
• 16:55
  with something like Ghost of Yote where
• 16:57
  I think uh Roi is going to be nominated
• 17:01
  for like best performance awards uh in
• 17:04
  the same way that um I'm forgetting what
• 17:06
  their name was who was in Ghost of Yote.
• 17:08
  Um but that perishi
• 17:11
  Yes. Uh Erica is nominated for a bunch
• 17:14
  of stuff and I don't think Erica is like
• 17:15
  bad in the game, but I think that they
• 17:17
  were not given um a whole lot to work
• 17:19
  with and I think it's like just a bad
• 17:20
  script in general. And I feel a very
• 17:22
  similar way about Ra Kohley in this
• 17:24
  where he's like not bad in it, but I
• 17:25
  think the script is not giving him much
• 17:27
  to work with. Um, but I think that that
• 17:29
  doesn't matter when it comes to looking
• 17:32
  at this game and looking at these types
• 17:33
  of games with like quote unquote like
• 17:36
  prestige a prestige lens because it's
• 17:38
  like well no it's a performance that I
• 17:39
  recognized that's about trauma and
• 17:42
  you're like okay
• 17:42
  >> yeah you've said this before and most
• 17:44
  visible performance I think is an
• 17:46
  accurate way to measure that. I also
• 17:48
  think that just because of how um the
• 17:50
  game awards voting works is that I think
• 17:52
  that there's a a bit of like
• 17:53
  carelessness involved in this like the
• 17:56
  my favorite example is last year for
• 17:58
  best uh video game adaptation. Are you
• 18:01
  aware of what was not even nominated and
• 18:03
  people were disappointed?
• 18:05
  >> What would Yeah, there was something
• 18:08
  that was that people were like how did
• 18:09
  this not get nominated? And I can tell
• 18:11
  you exactly how it didn't get nominated
• 18:13
  but
• 18:13
  >> uh please enlighten me.
• 18:15
  >> The third Sonic the Hedgehog movie. Oh,
• 18:17
  sure. Okay.
• 18:18
  >> The reason it didn't get nominated was
• 18:20
  if you went to your phone and you typed
• 18:22
  in video game movie adaptations 2025, it
• 18:25
  wouldn't have shown up because it came
• 18:26
  out in December of 2024.
• 18:28
  >> There you go.
• 18:29
  >> And so it's this thing where it's like
• 18:31
  if you ask
• 18:33
  >> what is the what is the best performance
• 18:35
  of the year? They're going to go who how
• 18:38
  many freaking video game voice actors do
• 18:40
  I even know?
• 18:41
  >> DUDE, NO. THIS IS COOL. He's in the PR
• 18:44
  because I remember like and I know we
• 18:45
  both have you know our feelings about a
• 18:47
  game like Metaphor Refantasio but I
• 18:49
  remember that game didn't get nominated
• 18:50
  for any of his performances that year
• 18:53
  when like again I we sort of have our
• 18:55
  own feelings about that game but I think
• 18:57
  for me it was undeniable that there were
• 18:59
  some excellent performances in that game
• 19:01
  and uh it wasn't nominated for anything
• 19:04
  and uh like the big game award awards
• 19:07
  stuff and it's it was all in favor of
• 19:09
  these facial captured performances and
• 19:11
  whatever and it's Like well because I
• 19:14
  think when people think about like well
• 19:15
  what's a good performance in a video
• 19:16
  game they are largely not thinking about
• 19:19
  oh the performance of you know whatever
• 19:22
  character in a game that does not have
• 19:23
  any human faces in it. No one's thinking
• 19:25
  about the AI voice in um Marathon when
• 19:27
  they're talking about great
• 19:28
  performances. Instead they're thinking
• 19:30
  about Ro Kohley because hey that's
• 19:32
  that's a face that's a that's a person
• 19:33
  that I know was doing a performance.
• 19:35
  >> So they're not thinking about the AI
• 19:37
  voice in Marathon but they are thinking
• 19:38
  about the AI voice in Pragmata.
• 19:41
  >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, no, but that that's
• 19:43
  it, though. Because it has a face. Has a
• 19:45
  face that you see and that you interact
• 19:46
  with and and it has a more human face
• 19:49
  that is not stylized. Obviously, you
• 19:51
  know, those characters are stylized,
• 19:52
  whatever, but it's like because it's
• 19:54
  like that's a person, you know, as
• 19:55
  opposed to just like whatever.
• 19:58
  >> Could one of those marathon people get
• 19:59
  nominated for this? Ben Star.
• 20:01
  >> I mean, Ben Star, I mean, he's But so,
• 20:04
  here's something interesting about him.
• 20:05
  Um, and I think this is like to the
• 20:07
  larger point of what we're talking
• 20:08
  about. I saw an interview with him
• 20:09
  recently where he was talking about how
• 20:11
  um people recognize him in games first
• 20:15
  and then the character and and uh he was
• 20:18
  talking about how he thinks that's kind
• 20:19
  of fascinating because like how many
• 20:20
  voice actors are like that. You know
• 20:21
  what I mean? Like certainly there are
• 20:22
  some, but like so often is it so
• 20:25
  recognizable that like oh it's this guy
• 20:27
  and then the
• 20:29
  >> him being in the game gets to be a
• 20:31
  selling point for the game in the same
• 20:32
  way that we're talking about something
• 20:34
  like oh like here's an actor that you
• 20:36
  know Rahul Kohley's in this video game
• 20:38
  and you're like whoa that means that
• 20:40
  game has some prestige to it. I feel a
• 20:42
  similar way about like Death Training 2
• 20:43
  or you know Death Stranding one right
• 20:45
  where it's like oh an actor from a
• 20:46
  really popular thing that I knew Walking
• 20:48
  Dead and whatever else Norman Reus has
• 20:50
  done John Wick the ballerina um
• 20:54
  >> among other things it's just what came
• 20:55
  to mind um that's good
• 20:57
  >> yeah this is my poll for you um that's
• 21:00
  the selling point right and that that is
• 21:02
  what I think establishes these sorts of
• 21:04
  things as you know being good but I
• 21:07
  think it's just really weird that that's
• 21:08
  how it works right
• 21:10
  >> oh yeah I I mean, definitely. And at the
• 21:14
  end of the day, when I'm, you know, I
• 21:16
  don't know why I'm thinking about this,
• 21:17
  I'm thinking about these voice actors
• 21:18
  now. I do hope I do hope I will say I do
• 21:20
  hope that Diana from Pragmata gets the
• 21:22
  nod.
• 21:23
  >> I I hope she does. She's fantastic in
• 21:25
  that game. She's so good. But just kind
• 21:27
  of coming back to the idea of the
• 21:28
  theiness versus the video gameiness. I
• 21:32
  want to see us give a little bit more
• 21:35
  love to like when Marvel Tokon comes
• 21:37
  out, whichever character has the line
• 21:40
  that becomes the one that we all say
• 21:41
  online in kind of like a in kind of like
• 21:44
  an Overwatchy way. How some of those
• 21:46
  lines kind of um you know, break out.
• 21:49
  >> Yeah. I mean, it's it's like Nerf this
• 21:51
  is like such an iconic like it's it's
• 21:53
  like it transcends Overwatch, right?
• 21:55
  because it's like a a like a pop culture
• 21:58
  thing, right? I mean, even there were
• 22:00
  some like Marvel Rivals lines that I saw
• 22:01
  people were doing like out in public and
• 22:02
  it was really embarrassing on TikTok or
• 22:04
  whatever. You know what I mean? And that
• 22:05
  was like the point. But like
• 22:07
  >> and I think what what's interesting to
• 22:09
  me about this here though is that the
• 22:12
  way that we are rendering what the
• 22:14
  concept of best performance even means
• 22:17
  is we are trying to say which
• 22:19
  performance is closest to what we would
• 22:21
  award best performance in other mediums.
• 22:23
  >> Yes. So my question for you is this then
• 22:26
  too. So I'm looking at like the list of
• 22:28
  like the most recent like Sony first
• 22:30
  party published games whatever. Um and
• 22:33
  like when I look at the ones that are
• 22:36
  you know the last year or two years or
• 22:38
  so like
• 22:40
  >> the ones that I think that have gone
• 22:42
  down as these sort of like prestige
• 22:43
  games are the ones that are doing
• 22:45
  exactly what we're talking about and the
• 22:48
  rest have kind of fallen to the wayside.
• 22:50
  Do you think that something like um
• 22:52
  Marvel Tokcon, which again isn't first-p
• 22:54
  partyy developed, but it's first party
• 22:55
  published, uh Marvel Toecon and um
• 22:58
  Marathon, which is first party published
• 23:00
  and developed,
• 23:01
  do those go down, do you think, as like,
• 23:04
  oh, these are going to be like prestige
• 23:06
  games that people are going to recommend
• 23:07
  and be like, "Oh my gosh, it's
• 23:08
  fantastic." Or do they not get that
• 23:10
  because they are not the idea of like
• 23:13
  the prestige video game?
• 23:15
  >> Yeah, it's tough, right? I think that
• 23:16
  like the way in which we cover and
• 23:21
  praise and uphold like great video
• 23:23
  games. Um, you know, a fighting game
• 23:26
  could never be game of the year.
• 23:29
  >> You don't think so?
• 23:31
  >> No.
• 23:31
  >> Because I think about like like
• 23:32
  Overwatch was at that's obviously not a
• 23:35
  fighting game, but like that's a
• 23:36
  specific genre game, you know what I
• 23:37
  mean? Back in the day.
• 23:38
  >> I know. And I and I almost wonder if um
• 23:42
  ah man, it's such a it's such a
• 23:43
  confluence of things, right? Because I
• 23:46
  feel like the
• 23:49
  I feel like that was a weak year.
• 23:51
  >> 2016 maybe.
• 23:53
  >> Yeah, I feel like that was a weak year
• 23:54
  to be honest with you. I don't think it
• 23:56
  had the stiffest of competition. Yeah.
• 23:58
  Yeah. Look up. What were the other
• 23:59
  nominees? What were the other I would
• 24:00
  love to know what the other nominees
• 24:01
  were if you've got that.
• 24:02
  >> Oh jeez. Let me see.
• 24:04
  >> But I also think that and maybe this is
• 24:06
  insane of me and I'll cop to it. If
• 24:08
  somebody's listening right now and they
• 24:10
  go, "Jake, I'm sorry. That is insane of
• 24:12
  you. You can't make that claim." I think
• 24:14
  something that Okay,
• 24:15
  >> I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Game of the year
• 24:16
  nominees were Overwatch, Doom, Inside,
• 24:18
  Titanfall 2, and Uncharted 4.
• 24:22
  >> Okay, that's actually surprising that
• 24:24
  you Mafia 3, Firewatch, uh, Abzu. Sorry,
• 24:29
  go on.
• 24:30
  >> No, so um I think that a lot of heavy
• 24:34
  lifting was done by the Overwatch videos
• 24:38
  that were released on YouTube.
• 24:40
  >> Uh, that's actually true. That's fair
• 24:42
  because those were then going for the
• 24:44
  prestige sort of animation television
• 24:47
  stuff. Yeah,
• 24:48
  >> it was it was rendered in that way extra
• 24:50
  textually.
• 24:51
  >> You're right.
• 24:51
  >> So, I think that that kind of helped
• 24:53
  that game out. Not to not to take away
• 24:55
  from the point that I think is being
• 24:56
  made here, but um yeah, there's
• 24:59
  something about uh like fighting games
• 25:02
  that I think is just maybe maybe the
• 25:04
  landscape has changed, but I think that
• 25:06
  they are uh too
• 25:11
  known in what they are and who they're
• 25:14
  for to to even be kind of like
• 25:16
  considered in this conversation of what
• 25:18
  we want to say like a really great game
• 25:20
  is. It's like it'll always be like that
• 25:22
  is a really great fighting game.
• 25:23
  >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cuz do you think like
• 25:25
  is it possible to have like something
• 25:26
  that is considered a great like prestige
• 25:28
  game that is not the traditional like
• 25:31
  third person action adventure game?
• 25:34
  >> You could do a first person one. I think
• 25:35
  >> yeah cuz I could say I think you could
• 25:37
  probably say like oh Dishonored. Oh Prey
• 25:39
  Wolfenstein.
• 25:39
  >> Yeah. Yeah.
• 25:40
  >> Um but then even then those games are so
• 25:46
  >> well it it doesn't help. I I agree that
• 25:48
  it doesn't help.
• 25:50
  >> Yeah.
• 25:51
  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, I'm just
• 25:52
  thinking about like how each of those
• 25:54
  have those sorts of like technical like
• 25:57
  prestige elements. Anyway,
• 25:59
  >> um
• 26:00
  >> yeah, it's it's so funny. So, do you
• 26:02
  think that like
• 26:04
  does this ever change? You think? My
• 26:06
  answer is no. I think
• 26:07
  >> my So, my my question with all of this
• 26:10
  is like I feel like I Okay, so like a
• 26:13
  little bit about me. I love superheroes.
• 26:16
  Love superheroes. I love superhero
• 26:18
  games. Um, right now as it stands, I
• 26:22
  really don't have any enthusiasm for
• 26:23
  that Wolverine game
• 26:25
  >> and I feel like something happens to me.
• 26:29
  Something else that you know about me is
• 26:30
  that I love rogue lights. I love them.
• 26:33
  It's one of my favorite genres.
• 26:35
  >> Yeah.
• 26:36
  >> And um, a huge Returnal fan. I currently
• 26:40
  just have like no enthusiasm for
• 26:41
  Sorrowos. And I think that there is
• 26:43
  something that has happened to me where
• 26:45
  I'm looking at the trailers or whatever
• 26:47
  for these PlayStation first party games.
• 26:49
  And uh there is this there's like this
• 26:51
  effect that happens when you play
• 26:53
  fighting games where for the first week
• 26:55
  that you play them, it's like, "Oh my
• 26:57
  god, these graphics are so cool. Those
• 26:59
  moves, those special moves are so sick
• 27:01
  and you're learning all this stuff and
• 27:02
  it's all hitting you a certain way." And
• 27:04
  then after a week, your brain kind of
• 27:06
  sees through. you see underneath it and
• 27:08
  you see the the timing and the numbers
• 27:10
  and you see the stuff and the graphics
• 27:11
  aren't even on your mind. And I think
• 27:13
  that like I watch a video of Sorrowos
• 27:15
  and I just see Returnal rendered in
• 27:18
  different colors.
• 27:19
  >> I just see it like I know what I'm
• 27:21
  looking at and I feel like I can see the
• 27:22
  parts that are like here's a hat on top
• 27:25
  of Returnal when it when it you know
• 27:26
  when it when it goes to a cut scene and
• 27:28
  you've got the main CHARACTER GOING
• 27:31
  >> WHAT'S GOING ON? IT'S LIKE IT'S like
• 27:33
  yeah I know like you you could have put
• 27:35
  that in Returnal. I get it. I know
• 27:37
  exactly how I'm going to feel playing
• 27:40
  this game and watching those cut scenes
• 27:42
  because I've cuz I've been there.
• 27:43
  >> Do you think Yeah. Yeah. So So is it
• 27:45
  like
• 27:46
  >> I I think before we started recording
• 27:48
  you did mention like the idea that like
• 27:49
  okay like Marvel is still super popular
• 27:52
  like like the MCU, but like
• 27:54
  >> I think it has a different like fervor
• 27:57
  and connotation to it now than it did 10
• 28:00
  or I guess at this point what 15 years
• 28:02
  ago.
• 28:02
  >> The floor the floor has fallen out from
• 28:03
  under them a little bit. It's and I
• 28:06
  think a lot of that is just the
• 28:07
  accumulation of these movies that
• 28:11
  ultimately feel the same
• 28:13
  >> and they're fun. It's fun. It's popcorn.
• 28:15
  Do you know what I mean? Obviously like
• 28:16
  that relates with it being a movie, but
• 28:17
  it's like it's popcorn. I love popcorn.
• 28:19
  But like usually I don't like think like
• 28:23
  >> oh like like this it's not a great meal.
• 28:25
  Do you know what I mean? Or it can be
• 28:26
  for a night but it's like it's if if
• 28:27
  that's all you're eating it's it's just
• 28:29
  not a great meal. There was a time when
• 28:30
  I was like excited for the next Marvel
• 28:32
  movie coming out and and now it's like a
• 28:35
  okay when it comes out it comes out and
• 28:36
  I'm gonna watch it. I might not even
• 28:38
  watch it.
• 28:38
  >> I explained to my wife like uh it's kind
• 28:40
  of like uh like nerd jury duty a little
• 28:42
  bit. We're like well I got to go like
• 28:43
  you know what I mean? Like when Deadpool
• 28:45
  Wolverine came out I was like I I mean I
• 28:47
  have it is an obligation I must see. And
• 28:49
  I think that's how maybe a lot of these
• 28:52
  uh Sony first party games feel at least
• 28:53
  to me. Uh I I'm I would be curious
• 28:55
  though to hear like I do know they are
• 28:58
  still like incredibly popular. You and I
• 28:59
  were talking uh earlier this week about
• 29:01
  like I'm in a group chat with like um
• 29:03
  non- games media people who are all like
• 29:05
  gaming people who I know from various
• 29:08
  you know whatever and like
• 29:11
  >> uh when the SARS reviews dropped I sort
• 29:13
  of like chimed in just just to tell them
• 29:15
  what I thought of it. And um there was a
• 29:20
  push back on sort of what I was saying
• 29:22
  because it was sort of in a more
• 29:25
  dissenting I think SARS is fine by the
• 29:26
  way. It it's fun enough but uh sort of
• 29:29
  starting to just get stale with the
• 29:31
  elements that we were talking about and
• 29:33
  um I got a lot of push back on that from
• 29:35
  these more like Sony first party
• 29:38
  interested uh gamers. So, I wonder if I
• 29:40
  wonder if we're alone in this or I
• 29:42
  wonder if this is a a feeling that that
• 29:44
  is not so popular in the mainstream yet.
• 29:47
  >> It's tough because I think a huge part
• 29:49
  of what PlayStation is chasing right now
• 29:52
  is that all of the games that they put
• 29:53
  out are designed in a way where not only
• 29:57
  is there kind of this multimedia bent to
• 29:59
  them, I think they're designed in a way
• 30:00
  that they're trying to create fans and
• 30:03
  fandoms. I think that like
• 30:06
  >> being a being a Horizon fan, being like
• 30:09
  a Housemark fan and what that means or
• 30:12
  like, you know, I I like Returnal and
• 30:14
  I'm identifying with that. And I think
• 30:15
  that like there
• 30:17
  >> there is something about these games
• 30:18
  that I think is converting people into
• 30:21
  like I am somebody who likes this game
• 30:24
  and like The Last of Us I think is in
• 30:26
  that conversation as well.
• 30:27
  >> Oh, certainly. And
• 30:29
  >> is it is it the idea of like um
• 30:33
  >> we're trying to make stuff that sells
• 30:34
  merch, you know what I mean? Like like
• 30:36
  >> Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
• 30:37
  >> Because obviously obviously there's
• 30:38
  something wrong with that if that's you
• 30:39
  know part of the business model, but it
• 30:41
  feels like well we need we do need toys
• 30:43
  of Joel and Ellie now too. So Nintendo
• 30:46
  has had this mastered for like a long
• 30:48
  time. And I think that, you know, when
• 30:51
  Metroid Prime 4 is coming out, you have
• 30:53
  so many people looking at the trailers
• 30:54
  and playing the game or whatever and
• 30:55
  going, it's more Metroid. If you like
• 30:58
  Metroid, you will like this 10 10 out of
• 31:02
  10. And then I think like there are
• 31:04
  people who that's how they see a lot of
• 31:06
  these PlayStation games. That's actually
• 31:08
  such an interesting point because
• 31:09
  literally in the conversation that I was
• 31:11
  having with my friends and like I said
• 31:12
  they were kind of like like arguing with
• 31:14
  me a little bit maybe pushing back on me
• 31:16
  like for my opinion about a game that
• 31:18
  they hadn't played that I had. I did end
• 31:20
  up saying like I think everyone in this
• 31:22
  chat is going to like this because it is
• 31:25
  >> more of that PlayStation first party
• 31:26
  style. So I think I think that is I
• 31:29
  wonder now here's maybe this is the
• 31:30
  ultimate question
• 31:31
  >> because I think I think ultimately what
• 31:32
  my thing is there too is that they they
• 31:35
  create buy in before you play the game.
• 31:37
  >> Yeah.
• 31:38
  >> That it's it's recognizable to the point
• 31:40
  that you have bought in so that you
• 31:42
  already like it before you've even
• 31:43
  played the game. It reminds me a lot of
• 31:46
  Pokemon.
• 31:46
  >> Oh, sure. No, that's fair. Do you think
• 31:48
  do you think that part of it too is the
• 31:50
  idea of like okay you have like Returnal
• 31:52
  which isn't a perfect game. it had some
• 31:54
  like rough edges or whatever and they
• 31:55
  sanded so much of it down that like uh I
• 31:59
  would not be like, "Oh, if you like
• 32:00
  Uncharted, you should play Returnal,"
• 32:02
  right? Because those are I think like
• 32:04
  quite different experiences, you know?
• 32:06
  Um but I wonder if part of the goal is
• 32:09
  to say if you like Uncharted, you should
• 32:10
  play Sorrows, which I do think you could
• 32:12
  make the argument for.
• 32:13
  >> Whoa. You really
• 32:16
  >> Yeah. I mean, it's it's different,
• 32:17
  right? They are different, but like I I
• 32:19
  could see how
• 32:22
  >> there is a much cleaner like straight
• 32:24
  line between, you know, Last of Us, God
• 32:26
  of War, whatever, and Sorrowos than
• 32:29
  there is between sort of a a squiggly
• 32:30
  line to get to Returnal.
• 32:32
  >> I think I think you could say like, oh,
• 32:34
  if you like
• 32:34
  >> that's crazy.
• 32:35
  >> If you like Bloodborne, play Returnal.
• 32:38
  >> Yeah. But I think that that's because
• 32:40
  those games are sort of like exist in a
• 32:42
  different sort of sphere than Uncharted
• 32:44
  and The Last of Us and Spider-Man and
• 32:46
  whatever else.
• 32:48
  >> Yeah. Because I think if you imagine the
• 32:50
  the square peg round hole situation and
• 32:52
  you've got these games that are square
• 32:54
  pegs and then you've got this round hole
• 32:55
  that is kind of the PlayStation game,
• 32:57
  the the way in which you can kind of, as
• 33:00
  you put it, kind of sand off the edges
• 33:02
  to the point where the game fits in the
• 33:04
  hole. It's like, yeah, a lot of people
• 33:06
  like what this thing is, but it's now
• 33:09
  kind of um
• 33:10
  >> it's diluted.
• 33:11
  >> It's diluted. It's diluted. Yeah.
• 33:14
  >> And I I think that was my sort of
• 33:15
  takeaway from Sorrows 2 is this idea of
• 33:17
  like it's it's fine. Like like it's all
• 33:20
  right, but I don't think it has a
• 33:21
  particularly strong identity. Um
• 33:25
  because it it
• 33:27
  Yeah, it's
• 33:28
  >> Let me let me hear this. I um this is
• 33:30
  this is a little bit unfair because I'm
• 33:32
  just kind of going off the the very few
• 33:34
  stuff that we've been we've been shown
• 33:35
  for it at this point, but I rewatched
• 33:38
  the most recent trailer for that
• 33:39
  Wolverine game today.
• 33:41
  >> I don't think something something I
• 33:43
  realized about that trailer was that,
• 33:46
  you know, like video game trailers are
• 33:48
  typically trying to be like this is the
• 33:50
  thing. This is the thing you do in this
• 33:52
  game. Here's like the pitch. Here's the,
• 33:53
  you know, whatever.
• 33:54
  >> And in Spider-Man, it's so easy to
• 33:56
  imagine what that is. The second you see
• 33:58
  Spider-Man swinging around New York
• 34:00
  City, you go,
• 34:02
  >> "I would like I would like to play that.
• 34:04
  I would like to play that." Yes.
• 34:05
  >> And it's funny that Wolverine trailer, I
• 34:07
  was like, "What is the I'm swinging
• 34:10
  around New York City?"
• 34:11
  >> I have no idea.
• 34:13
  >> It's just the concept of violence, which
• 34:15
  is not enough in the world of video
• 34:17
  games. And it's funny. It's like you are
• 34:20
  doing it's like Spider-Man, but you're
• 34:22
  Wolverine.
• 34:23
  >> Like that's the point of the game. It's
• 34:25
  so funny cuz I'm like,
• 34:27
  what do you even mean by that? Cuz it's
• 34:29
  exactly what you're saying. Like when
• 34:29
  you were like, oh, if you're like
• 34:30
  Spider-Man, you're swinging around and
• 34:32
  fighting crime and like Wolverine like
• 34:34
  shows up on the the the Quinn jet or the
• 34:36
  XJet. Do you know what I mean? Sometimes
• 34:38
  or he like rides a motorcycle around.
• 34:40
  But like is it an open world thing?
• 34:42
  Yeah, it's it's tough to sell that, I
• 34:44
  think, or at least based on just saying
• 34:45
  like it's like Spider-Man but Wolverine.
• 34:47
  You're like, okay, what does that mean?
• 34:48
  >> So it feels like the pitch of that game
• 34:50
  is is property first. It's it's it's
• 34:53
  Wolverine and then they kind of tell you
• 34:55
  what the game is. Whereas I think I what
• 34:57
  what I would like is here's this. Okay,
• 35:00
  I've been thinking about this a lot for
• 35:01
  some reason. I don't know why. This has
• 35:02
  been my go-to shower thought for the
• 35:04
  past week.
• 35:06
  >> Been thinking a lot about a Daredevil
• 35:08
  video game. Okay, so hear me out.
• 35:10
  >> Daredevil is blind obviously, but he's
• 35:13
  got the radar sense. And I keep thinking
• 35:15
  about in video games like the radar
• 35:18
  sense that Daredevil has is actually
• 35:20
  just kind of like a standard power.
• 35:23
  That's what that's what everyone has.
• 35:24
  Everyone has Daredevil's radar sense in
• 35:26
  video games. Um and I was like, damn. So
• 35:30
  would you could you just make a
• 35:31
  Daredevil video game that is
• 35:33
  functionally the same? Literally the
• 35:35
  same. It's just like a skin on your
• 35:36
  playing Spider-Man. Or would you have to
• 35:39
  go a step further? Would you have to say
• 35:41
  no, this is different? This is a here's
• 35:44
  a limitation. Here's something that
• 35:45
  we're putting around this to be like,
• 35:47
  "Oh, damn. This actually feels it feels
• 35:50
  different to be Daredevil than it does
• 35:53
  to be Spider-Man." And I think that like
• 35:57
  something that I that I feel about
• 36:00
  PlayStation games is that that is just
• 36:04
  not a concern. You know, when you play
• 36:06
  Ghost of Yote, do you feel differently
• 36:08
  playing as Jin Sakai than you do the the
• 36:13
  >> Oh my Atsu.
• 36:14
  >> I don't remember. It's like not really
• 36:17
  because you're supposed to feel how you
• 36:18
  feel when you play that game.
• 36:21
  >> Yes, 100%. And I think to your point
• 36:24
  here, like I would take it even a step
• 36:25
  further. Does Jenatsu feel any different
• 36:28
  from playing Miss Horizon? I'm
• 36:30
  forgetting her name. Uh Aloy.
• 36:32
  >> Aloy. Uh
• 36:33
  >> wow. Wow. Fuo.
• 36:35
  >> Straight up no, right?
• 36:37
  >> Straight up no [ __ ] That's crazy.
• 36:40
  Actually, that's actually nuts. Oh my
• 36:42
  god. Straight up.
• 36:43
  >> And I think, you know, like the common
• 36:44
  like response is like, "Guys, they have
• 36:47
  swords and Aloy doesn't have a sword."
• 36:49
  And I was like, "Not what I'm talking
• 36:50
  about." Like,
• 36:51
  >> but do they feel that different from
• 36:52
  playing as Ellie in The Last of Us 2?
• 36:54
  >> No. Same thing. Not really,
• 36:55
  >> dude. No. Yeah. Wow. And so there's this
• 36:59
  there's this like uh design language
• 37:01
  that's like uh sort of across the board
• 37:04
  cuz then like does Kratos feel different
• 37:06
  than those characters? A little bit but
• 37:08
  largely
• 37:09
  >> man not that much. I guess you're right
• 37:11
  now that I it's just the kind of the
• 37:13
  scale goes is is the thing that you
• 37:16
  change.
• 37:16
  >> Yeah. And and there are the deviations,
• 37:18
  right? Like I said like I think Kratos
• 37:20
  doesn't 100% fit into that. Um I I think
• 37:22
  that um Arjun in Sorrowos also doesn't
• 37:25
  necessarily fit into that but it is
• 37:27
  still there's the mold sort of around
• 37:30
  those characters that you start to go
• 37:31
  okay I see
• 37:34
  like how much connective tissue is here
• 37:37
  and it just makes that like jump from
• 37:38
  playing Horizon to Ghost of Yote to the
• 37:43
  Last of Us to God of War to Spider-Man
• 37:45
  now to Sorrowos. so easy because it's
• 37:48
  it's that thing about like so you know
• 37:49
  if you like this then you're gonna like
• 37:50
  this which means you're gonna like this
• 37:51
  and it just it's a whole family of stuff
• 37:53
  >> and I would argue that the reason that
• 37:54
  that Kratos and God of War and Arjun and
• 37:57
  Sorrowos both are like oh okay you guys
• 38:00
  actually feel like maybe you do have
• 38:01
  some gameplay ideas first rather than
• 38:04
  character property first is because they
• 38:06
  both inherited those qualities from
• 38:10
  their past video game history where
• 38:13
  before Sony was chasing these things.
• 38:15
  Kratos obviously from past God of War
• 38:17
  games kind of inheriting some of that
• 38:19
  action game responsibility and then um
• 38:22
  Arjun and Soros not just from Returnal
• 38:25
  but kind of like what a how smart game
• 38:27
  is supposed to be.
• 38:28
  >> Yeah.
• 38:29
  >> Um so yeah, I don't know. I guess I I
• 38:32
  guess it's like is it is it worth being
• 38:34
  like when somebody in the comments has
• 38:36
  already typed out, but Jake, you haven't
• 38:37
  talked about Astrobot. Is it worth
• 38:40
  addressing that? I don't know.
• 38:41
  >> I mean, we can address that.
• 38:42
  >> How does that fit? How does that fit in?
• 38:43
  How does that fit in here?
• 38:44
  >> I mean, if you want to talk about a
• 38:45
  thing that is uh trying to sell merch.
• 38:48
  Uh
• 38:48
  >> oh my god.
• 38:49
  >> You know, like there's not there's
• 38:51
  nothing wrong with that, but like I I
• 38:52
  don't think that saying what about
• 38:54
  Astrobot, it's a different video game is
• 38:55
  doing this the thing you're you want it
• 38:57
  to do when it's just it's just uh Hey,
• 39:00
  please don't please don't come for me.
• 39:03
  But it's just PlayStation Funko Pops,
• 39:05
  y'all. I mean,
• 39:06
  >> PlayStation Funko Pops.
• 39:08
  >> There's nothing wrong with that, but I
• 39:10
  do I think we'd all should just be
• 39:11
  straight up about what that is. Now, and
• 39:14
  I got to say, not to be a not to be a
• 39:15
  complete psychopath, but
• 39:17
  >> that's what this podcast is for.
• 39:18
  >> That's the direction we're going today.
• 39:20
  >> I feel that Astrobot is is a purposeful,
• 39:26
  controlled contrast that exists because
• 39:29
  they know that what we're saying is
• 39:31
  actually [ __ ] true. Dog,
• 39:33
  >> you Jake,
• 39:35
  they're going to kill you. They This is
• 39:38
  We're going to find out if Jake got
• 39:40
  killed by his side. I think half of the
• 39:42
  appeal of Astrobot is like, "Fuck, we've
• 39:45
  been doing a lot of these PlayStation
• 39:46
  first party games one way for a while."
• 39:48
  >> Yeah. Yeah. It feels like It feels like,
• 39:50
  oh, you thought our whole [ __ ] was just
• 39:52
  that we kill people and you're sad, huh?
• 39:54
  You thought You thought that that's You
• 39:56
  thought that it's they're all just game.
• 39:57
  It's games about misery, trauma, and
• 39:58
  fatherhood, huh? Well, check out this
• 40:00
  fun little platformer. Huh? [ __ ]
• 40:01
  >> They give you the the little the little
• 40:03
  amuse bouch the the pallet cleanser in
• 40:05
  between meals.
• 40:06
  >> It's essentially just ginger from when
• 40:09
  you go to eat sushi. She's a slice of
• 40:10
  ginger.
• 40:12
  >> Um, but I mean, here's the thing,
• 40:13
  though, too. IT'S LIKE IT'S NOT BAD,
• 40:14
  RIGHT? And and I think that what you
• 40:16
  could say about all of these Sony games
• 40:18
  is like for me, they at the very least
• 40:21
  like do hit a standard like like a
• 40:24
  similar like bar of quality at the very
• 40:25
  least. Like I'm not looking at any of
• 40:27
  these and you know, like I'm just like
• 40:28
  from like a scale like a number scale
• 40:30
  perspective. I don't really look at any
• 40:32
  of these and say like, "Oh, they're
• 40:34
  terrible." Right? These aren't none of
• 40:35
  these are five out of 10 games, right?
• 40:38
  They're all competent enough, but I
• 40:40
  think that uh there like Sony's just at
• 40:43
  a point where being competent isn't
• 40:45
  enough for me to be able to say like,
• 40:48
  "Oh, this is this is going a step beyond
• 40:50
  because we've seen what they are doing
• 40:52
  when they're on their agame with this
• 40:53
  sort of type of game, you know, and I
• 40:56
  think that they're just not there
• 40:57
  anymore." And, you know, we made an
• 40:58
  episode previously about talking about
• 40:59
  like the way that like PlayStation
• 41:01
  sequels um fall into this trap. And I
• 41:03
  think that's a it's a similar episode to
• 41:05
  what we're talking about here. Um, but I
• 41:08
  I I think that the fandom surrounding
• 41:10
  these games tends to be completely fine
• 41:13
  with the uh their sequels and iterations
• 41:15
  and you know, new IP with stuff like
• 41:17
  Soros or whatever, not pushing the
• 41:19
  envelope particularly far. You know,
• 41:21
  there was this like PS3 and a PS4 era
• 41:24
  for PlayStation where I was all in on
• 41:27
  PlayStation. I had a Wii U and thought
• 41:30
  it's the only video game console I
• 41:31
  regret buying. I thought I was out on
• 41:34
  Nintendo. I literally was like, "Damn, I
• 41:36
  guess I guess like I've outgrown this
• 41:38
  actually." And then they kind of really
• 41:40
  won me back in the Switch era. And I
• 41:43
  think that something that really kind of
• 41:46
  is solidifying how I feel during this
• 41:49
  conversation is the fact that like there
• 41:51
  was a time when every few years or so
• 41:55
  you would get your big Naughty Dog game.
• 41:57
  >> Yeah. And then there would be some other
• 41:59
  big cinematic game and like when when
• 42:01
  Ghost ofSushima first shows up from that
• 42:04
  studio from Sucker Punch, it's like
• 42:06
  whoa, this big new refreshing thing. And
• 42:09
  then there was all this other stuff
• 42:10
  sprinkled in that not a lot of people
• 42:12
  liked. But it was like as somebody who
• 42:16
  followed kind of the PlayStation catalog
• 42:17
  in the same way that I kind of follow
• 42:19
  the Nintendo one now and pretty much
• 42:22
  pretty much pick up everything that they
• 42:23
  publish. Though I didn't buy that
• 42:25
  toodachi life. I'm not trying to
• 42:27
  >> My wife dude Elena today was like,
• 42:31
  >> "Do you know what this Tomodachi live
• 42:32
  game?" And I was like, "I'm like
• 42:33
  familiar." And she's like, "I don't
• 42:35
  know. It seems like kind of fun." So, I
• 42:36
  might be purchasing that at some at some
• 42:38
  point. I'll maybe report back. But
• 42:40
  >> but I think that the there there is just
• 42:43
  kind of this noticeable lack of variety
• 42:46
  that I think a lot of people in the
• 42:48
  space would say, "But Jake, that's where
• 42:50
  the indie games come in. That's where
• 42:53
  the this and that games come in." And
• 42:55
  like on one hand, I understand that. I
• 42:58
  do. I I Yeah. But I think the thing that
• 43:01
  people sometimes misrepresent about
• 43:03
  indie games in our space is that like
• 43:06
  I'm not supposed to like every indie
• 43:08
  game. I'm supposed to like 1% of them.
• 43:10
  That's the point.
• 43:11
  >> Yeah.
• 43:11
  >> Like that's how they're supposed to
• 43:12
  function is that I'm supposed to find
• 43:14
  one and I go, "Fuck, this speaks to me."
• 43:16
  I also think that um indie games are not
• 43:20
  even uh uh what would you say like
• 43:25
  >> they are not like absolved from this
• 43:27
  simply by being indie games. Uh Kina
• 43:30
  Bridge of Spirits is a game that was
• 43:32
  like touted as this big like step
• 43:34
  forward for indie game development,
• 43:36
  right? Uh it was kind of like a
• 43:39
  Zelda the classic Zelda type video game
• 43:42
  to my understanding. And then what's
• 43:45
  being published by Sony Interactive
• 43:46
  Entertainment later this year? Oh, it is
• 43:49
  Kina Scars of Cosmora, the sequel, which
• 43:52
  is even more of a Sony first party style
• 43:57
  like game. Do you know what I mean? It's
• 43:58
  kind of interesting that like like yeah,
• 44:00
  you can say that and and not every game
• 44:02
  indie game is trying to do that, right?
• 44:03
  I have no doubt that um Faith: The
• 44:06
  Unholy Trinity, which just launched on
• 44:08
  PS5 by the way, um they're not going for
• 44:10
  that, although they are getting a movie
• 44:12
  made of them, so who knows? But, uh,
• 44:14
  what I'm getting at is is like I I don't
• 44:17
  think saying like, "Oh, well, just look
• 44:18
  to indie games." That's not entirely
• 44:20
  like the thing that's going to like
• 44:22
  quote unquote like save or fix this
• 44:24
  problem. You know,
• 44:25
  >> Peter, where are my little big planets?
• 44:27
  Where are my Ratchet and Clanks?
• 44:30
  >> Well, that's the thing.
• 44:31
  >> In piss, dude.
• 44:33
  >> It's that It's that little big planet
• 44:35
  got turned into uh Astrobot
• 44:38
  >> Grims. Oh, you're right. Like, like I
• 44:42
  think that um Sony's like, "Well, no, we
• 44:44
  need to have our platformer, but it
• 44:46
  can't be this weird Sack Boy." Even
• 44:49
  though, you know, there was Sack Boy Big
• 44:50
  Adventure, but whatever. Um it can't be
• 44:53
  >> Sylvester Cooper.
• 44:56
  >> Well, no, you have to turn him into
• 44:58
  >> Oh, okay. A sexy man with a daughter.
• 45:01
  >> Yeah. Well, or is Sly Cooper is that in
• 45:04
  uh Sucker Punch?
• 45:06
  >> It is. Do you think that the reason that
• 45:08
  they don't make um
• 45:10
  >> Infamous anymore is because
• 45:13
  >> Insomniac they purchased Insomniac?
• 45:15
  >> I'm literally so sad. I'm literally so
• 45:17
  sad about
• 45:19
  >> Do you think that they don't make it
• 45:20
  Infamous anymore? Is because they have
• 45:21
  Insomniac now and Insomniac is like,
• 45:22
  well, we're doing the superhero city
• 45:24
  game and so they were like, you need to
• 45:25
  come up with something else.
• 45:26
  >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're not trying to
• 45:27
  have multiple superhero games on the
• 45:29
  market and one of them is [ __ ]
• 45:31
  Spider-Man. Like that's not
• 45:33
  >> Infamous is so good though.
• 45:35
  >> It is. It's so good. And dude, it's so
• 45:37
  depressing that like PlaySt Okay, here's
• 45:39
  a little call out. A little call out to
• 45:41
  PlayStation. They got to figure their
• 45:42
  [ __ ] out with those those PS3 games. All
• 45:44
  right, they got to figure that [ __ ] out.
• 45:46
  I'm sick of not being able to play those
• 45:47
  games on my PS5. They got to they got to
• 45:49
  type some some numbers into their
• 45:51
  computers, send out a [ __ ] update
• 45:53
  over to the PlayStation 5 and make it so
• 45:54
  that I can goddamn download Infamous and
• 45:57
  Infamous 2 onto my PS5.
• 45:59
  >> That's the thing, cuz here's the thing.
• 46:00
  I know like obviously like game
• 46:01
  development is like so easy. So, like
• 46:03
  they they should just like turn the
• 46:04
  knob.
• 46:05
  >> Type those numbers in. Type the numbers
• 46:06
  in. Send out the update.
• 46:07
  >> I got I recently got my hands on a
• 46:09
  physical copy of Silent Hill 3 uh for
• 46:12
  the PlayStation 2. And I had this moment
• 46:14
  where I was like, "Can I put this in my
• 46:16
  PS5 and have it work?" And then I was
• 46:18
  like, "No, my PS5 will explode." Like,
• 46:22
  like I obviously don't know how any of
• 46:24
  that works, but I'm like, "Can we can we
• 46:25
  just can I can I please play this game,
• 46:28
  please?"
• 46:28
  >> Dude, is there is there even any is
• 46:30
  there even any hope? I feel like we're
• 46:31
  at this stage right now with the with
• 46:33
  the big AAA video game development and
• 46:35
  like when these games get announc get
• 46:37
  get announced and then how many years
• 46:39
  they go on to be to be developed and
• 46:41
  then the [ __ ] studio closes down and
• 46:42
  the game never comes out anyway where if
• 46:44
  there was any like if there was any game
• 46:46
  that I would be enthusiastic for coming
• 46:48
  out for PlayStation within the next one
• 46:50
  two 3 years I feel like I know about
• 46:51
  that [ __ ] right now but it's like you
• 46:53
  know like where am I even looking for
• 46:55
  something to get announced? It's I feel
• 46:57
  like it's it's just dire dude. I feel
• 46:59
  like the next exciting PlayStation thing
• 47:00
  that's going to get announced is going
• 47:01
  to be their new console that's like a
• 47:03
  cell phone or some [ __ ]
• 47:05
  >> No, that is I mean that is true, right?
• 47:09
  Because it's also like I think that you
• 47:10
  know if if we truly are getting the
• 47:13
  PlayStation 6 in 2027, which makes me uh
• 47:16
  feel like a decrepit old man, I guess.
• 47:19
  Um, yeah, it does mean that that they
• 47:21
  are, I think, going to be uninterested
• 47:23
  in announcing or like talking about any
• 47:25
  games that are like meant to be PS6
• 47:27
  games, right, until until later. Um,
• 47:30
  until that gets a little bit closer. But
• 47:32
  yeah, I don't know. I guess at the end
• 47:34
  of the day, when I look at like these
• 47:35
  first party PlayStation games and I look
• 47:37
  at something like Sorrowos, it just kind
• 47:39
  of bums me out a little bit. Man,
• 47:41
  Returnal wasn't perfect, but I look at
• 47:43
  the way like the um I look at the steps
• 47:49
  that like Housemark have has taken to
• 47:52
  kind of sand off any of the interesting
• 47:54
  bits of Returnal to make it a little bit
• 47:56
  more palatable for for larger audiences.
• 47:58
  I feel in a different way similar about
• 48:00
  like Ghost of Sushima to Ghost of Yote.
• 48:01
  Obviously, Ghost of Tsushima, I think,
• 48:03
  is a lot closer in in scope to what uh
• 48:06
  the that like first party PlayStation
• 48:09
  thing is doing. And but it just like and
• 48:11
  and I think Ghost of Yote was just a mix
• 48:13
  of different, you know, problems. But
• 48:15
  like I guess what I'm getting at is it
• 48:17
  just bums me out that like um
• 48:20
  that I that that this publisher that I
• 48:23
  think has a consistent bar for quality
• 48:25
  is uninterested in pushing the envelope
• 48:27
  to what they can do with that quality.
• 48:30
  >> After Returnal comes out, they put out
• 48:33
  some updates for that game. They did.
• 48:34
  >> One of which added a online co-op
• 48:37
  multiplayer mode.
• 48:38
  >> Pretty good.
• 48:38
  >> Whoa. pretty good.
• 48:39
  >> Another Witch added this like tower mode
• 48:42
  kind of like endless thing that you
• 48:43
  could do.
• 48:44
  >> It It wasn't even that. It was like
• 48:45
  additional. It was like DLC story
• 48:47
  content
• 48:49
  >> and I and I feel that there was
• 48:51
  something there that was important for
• 48:53
  them that they were developing and then
• 48:57
  I feel like we see Sorrowos and it's
• 49:00
  like the ways in which they could have
• 49:02
  iterated on Returnal.
• 49:05
  It's not like there's some cool power in
• 49:07
  Sorrowos and I go, "Shit, I never even
• 49:09
  thought about that. I never even thought
• 49:11
  about giving us a power like that. That
• 49:13
  does not exist." You know what that
• 49:14
  power is in this game? It's like a
• 49:15
  shield. It's like a [ __ ] parry
• 49:16
  button, dude. Like, what the what? Oh my
• 49:18
  god. It's like And then added a parry.
• 49:21
  And I made me be like, "This is the
• 49:22
  innovation."
• 49:24
  >> Yeah. No. And then it's like And then
• 49:25
  it's like, "Where's that? Where's that
• 49:27
  online co-op in Soros?" Don't even No,
• 49:30
  no, no.
• 49:30
  >> And I'm sure that's for a future update,
• 49:32
  right? But still,
• 49:33
  >> I don't think so. I don't think so. I
• 49:35
  think they're they've chosen their path.
• 49:36
  >> You think so?
• 49:38
  >> I think that everything is a question of
• 49:40
  development, resources, and time. And I
• 49:42
  think that doing doing multiplayer and
• 49:45
  making things work for two people, yada
• 49:46
  yada yada. If I had to guess, they have
• 49:48
  chosen their path. And that is not the
• 49:50
  path that's important to them.
• 49:51
  >> Yeah, I think that's probably true,
• 49:53
  >> which sucks, dude.
• 49:54
  >> I agree. I agree. I wanted I wanted to
• 49:56
  see a trailer for Sorrows where he
• 49:58
  presses a button and then a spaceship
• 50:00
  comes down and now he's actually flying
• 50:03
  around the level like it's reszo gun
• 50:06
  >> and he's playing like he's doing that
• 50:08
  and he's going and we're going holy [ __ ]
• 50:10
  that like man that would have been come
• 50:12
  on dude just just put two Rahul koli in
• 50:14
  there.
• 50:15
  >> Put two Rahu kies that's why that's why
• 50:17
  you can't do it.
• 50:19
  >> Yeah, you know he's a he's a very strict
• 50:21
  contract.
• 50:21
  >> One of a kind.
• 50:22
  >> Yeah, one of a kind. Um or maybe maybe
• 50:24
  the PlayStation 5 would just light
• 50:25
  itself on fire trying to trying to
• 50:27
  capture his handsomeness twice. That's
• 50:29
  why there's no
• 50:31
  >> Yeah.
• 50:32
  >> Um you know what I am excited about
• 50:33
  though, Jake?
• 50:34
  >> Tell me.
• 50:35
  >> Critical Air Nation, baby.
• 50:37
  >> The members of the Critical Error Nation
• 50:39
  are of course our supporters on Patreon.
• 50:42
  That's patreon.com/critical
• 50:44
  error. Uh last week's episode, our our
• 50:46
  bonus episode that goes up every week
• 50:48
  for uh $5 and up patron supporters. Uh
• 50:50
  last week episode we had Giovanni Colant
• 50:52
  Antonio on here from polygon.com. What a
• 50:55
  delight. What a treat. Had a great
• 50:56
  conversation with him. This week we had
• 50:59
  kind of a long one. We talked about what
• 51:00
  pragmata. We talked a lot about um uh
• 51:04
  >> whining brother.
• 51:07
  It's not It wasn't all whining. Were we
• 51:08
  talking about HDF stuff or was that you
• 51:10
  and me after after we
• 51:11
  >> That was That was mostly us after.
• 51:12
  >> Yeah. Yeah. It's a good episode though.
• 51:14
  Like I said, we had a lot of Pragmata
• 51:16
  talk. Um, that's that's a a lovely video
• 51:19
  game. You
• 51:21
  >> and I are are
• 51:23
  for anybody curious. I played I played
• 51:24
  through I played through Pragmata and uh
• 51:27
  that's that's definitely top 20 games of
• 51:29
  all time for me. And I got to tell you,
• 51:31
  >> it's good.
• 51:32
  >> It's not I don't know. I don't know if
• 51:34
  it's in the bottom 15.
• 51:36
  >> Yes. If not 20, 19, 18.
• 51:39
  >> Yeah. Yeah. 17.
• 51:41
  >> Yeah. I'm I I got to tell I I was I
• 51:43
  posted this on Blue Sky. I said top 25
• 51:45
  and now I've started saying top 20. I
• 51:47
  think I'm in it inching to say top 15.
• 51:48
  >> I would love I would love I think it'd
• 51:50
  be really funny. Not funny just like fun
• 51:52
  if you and I did like top 30 games like
• 51:54
  best 30 games. Do you know what I mean?
• 51:57
  Would love to
• 51:57
  >> both of us individually.
• 51:58
  >> Yeah. I would love to see your list,
• 52:00
  >> right? Maybe maybe bonus pod next week.
• 52:01
  >> Maybe bonus pod next week. Um I would
• 52:04
  like to give a special shout out though
• 52:05
  to the members of the Jake and Peter
• 52:07
  tier on our Patreon. These are the $20
• 52:09
  uh and up members on
• 52:11
  patreon.com/critical
• 52:12
  error. This is Andrew Bulkar. This is
• 52:14
  Evan Snee and Robert Quesada. Thank you
• 52:17
  so much for supporting us. We are so
• 52:19
  excited for I mentioned we were talking
• 52:21
  about Summer Gamefest stuff. We've got
• 52:23
  the plans in place um for what we're
• 52:26
  going to be doing with that right now.
• 52:27
  We're so stoked to do it. Um and it
• 52:29
  happens because of the support of people
• 52:31
  on uh our our Patreon.
• 52:36
  >> Critical Air royalty members get a sound
• 52:38
  effect every week. They do. And I've
• 52:40
  been thinking a lot about the Sabrina
• 52:41
  Carpenter song, Manchild. So, I think
• 52:43
  that I think that this week I obviously
• 52:45
  can't use the music because it'll
• 52:46
  because it'll get claimed, but I think
• 52:48
  I'm going to do the names to the rhythm
• 52:50
  to the tune of Sabrina Carpenters's
• 52:52
  Manchild.
• 52:53
  >> Connor True Love,
• 52:55
  >> right? Like, yeah, kind of. Is that the
• 52:57
  song?
• 52:58
  >> That was good. That was very good. Yeah,
• 53:00
  that's
• 53:01
  >> Yeah, I think that's what I'm I think
• 53:02
  that's what's coming. Yeah. Yeah.
• 53:04
  >> All right, let's hear that sound. Ancel
• 53:06
  trait, Andrew Boar, Evans, Neo, Robert,
• 53:09
  Katon, True Love, Danny, Disaster,
• 53:12
  James, Pierre Reed, Jacob, Richtor,
• 53:15
  Jared Keno, Sam Woods, Mitch, Dire,
• 53:17
  Kale, Chow, Shin,
• 53:20
  Pinky, Oats,
• 53:22
  or is it
• 53:24
  Shin?
• 53:26
  Maybe it's Cole,
• 53:29
  but there's a cuter word for it. I know.
• 53:32
  fictic
• 53:34
  mystic
• 53:36
  Alex non-existent merkeley.
• 53:39
  >> And to wrap things up, the pre-written
• 53:40
  portion of the podcast, uh, Peter, this
• 53:43
  week it was your turn, correct?
• 53:45
  >> Thank God. Thank God. Cuz if it was my
• 53:47
  turn,
• 53:48
  >> the scrambling in my Google Drive that
• 53:50
  would have just occurred would have read
• 53:52
  you some uh some email drafts. I think
• 53:55
  >> some weeks some weeks I'm like, "Oh, I'm
• 53:57
  ready." And like I'll have like written
• 53:58
  I wrote this uh
• 54:00
  >> before my deadline that I give for
• 54:02
  myself which which means that it was
• 54:05
  like I got to actually think about it
• 54:06
  where sometimes it'll come up. I'm like
• 54:07
  a [ __ ] it's Tuesday night. You know what
• 54:08
  I mean? This was a this was a Monday
• 54:10
  evening um write up. So um enjoy.
• 54:16
  >> Genuinely
• 54:17
  is a word I learned last week. If you
• 54:21
  are like me parenthesis
• 54:23
  old now actually let me explain it to
• 54:26
  you. It is the word genuinely
• 54:29
  with Kirk as in Charlie Kirk sewn into
• 54:32
  it like the human centipede.
• 54:34
  It means
• 54:37
  genuinely.
• 54:38
  >> Mhm.
• 54:39
  >> Charlie Kirk has actually made his way
• 54:40
  into a lot of Gen Z and Gen Alpha slang
• 54:42
  with words like genuinely, low
• 54:44
  curcuinely, and a word I still don't
• 54:46
  really get, low kirk ontological low
• 54:48
  state.
• 54:50
  What's going on with kids? Huh? I think
• 54:53
  it would be really easy to point at all
• 54:55
  of this and go, "Kids are so stupid,
• 54:57
  making up words, using the name of a
• 54:59
  white supremacist who means more to
• 55:00
  people now after exploding for everyone
• 55:02
  to see on the internet than he ever did
• 55:04
  before. Don't kids know who this guy
• 55:06
  was? That his entire legacy was violence
• 55:09
  against people from the moment he got a
• 55:11
  microphone to the moment he died?" I
• 55:13
  think kids are a lot smarter than we
• 55:14
  think they are. and their treatment of
• 55:16
  Charlie Kirk as the butt of the joke and
• 55:18
  as a meme illustrates something that
• 55:19
  older people don't quite grasp about Gen
• 55:21
  Z and Gen Alpha. They are growing up in
• 55:23
  a time where the world is so blatantly
• 55:25
  stacked against them. The world has
• 55:27
  always been like this. Things have
• 55:29
  always been bad, but the mask has
• 55:31
  slipped pretty significantly. Companies
• 55:34
  and governments, the people at the top
• 55:35
  of the systems that define our lives,
• 55:38
  don't care to hide the way that they're
• 55:39
  behaving. And kids have picked up on
• 55:42
  that and decided to make a point with
• 55:44
  the way their culture is defined. If
• 55:46
  nothing means anything, if no one cares,
• 55:48
  then everything can just be whatever we
• 55:50
  want it to be. There is a reverence and
• 55:53
  a fear that people in older generations
• 55:55
  have for these systems of tradition,
• 55:57
  respect, and power that kids today
• 56:00
  simply do not have. They are completely
• 56:02
  uninterested in playing the game of
• 56:04
  kissing the ring in hopes that having a
• 56:06
  better life since they know that it's
• 56:08
  all [ __ ] Why give reverence to the
• 56:10
  name of a man like Charlie Kirk when he
• 56:12
  was a deeply unserious person in their
• 56:13
  eyes? A man so obviously dedicated to
• 56:16
  upholding these systems of oppression
• 56:17
  and hatred. Why not turn him into a meme
• 56:20
  that pokes fun at his life and memory
• 56:22
  with every use of the word lurker
• 56:25
  ontological low state? A word that we
• 56:27
  all understand and know how to use.
• 56:30
  Kids have been speedrunning the church
• 56:32
  of Scientology. If you are like me,
• 56:35
  parenthesis old still. Let me explain
• 56:37
  that to you. Kids have been breaking
• 56:39
  into the Church of Scientology building
• 56:41
  in downtown Los Angeles, attempting to
• 56:43
  get deep into the building, chart out a
• 56:45
  map of its floor plan, and see what they
• 56:47
  have inside. Groups of people dressed up
• 56:50
  as Sonic the Hedgehog and Jesus Christ
• 56:52
  cover their faces, put cameras on their
• 56:54
  heads, and blitz past security guards.
• 56:57
  Trying to see who can upset the cult the
• 56:59
  most has become a game. As people from
• 57:02
  home analyze the faces of the members
• 57:04
  inside, create a cast of characters for
• 57:06
  public mockery. The Church of
• 57:08
  Scientology and similar institutions
• 57:10
  hold no power over these people. They
• 57:13
  are only interested in them so much as
• 57:15
  they can use them as a form of public
• 57:17
  shame and embarrassment. After all, what
• 57:19
  institution deserves public mockery more
• 57:21
  than the Church of Scientology? This is
• 57:24
  a dangerous organization with a history
• 57:26
  of red tape, but it has been defanged,
• 57:28
  turned into a joke. Because if the power
• 57:31
  structures it benefits from are all made
• 57:32
  up anyway, then maybe we can prove that
• 57:35
  those structures simply don't exist.
• 57:37
  kids seem to say.
• 57:40
  I think kids are misunderstood. There
• 57:42
  are plenty of arguments to be made that
• 57:43
  provoking a sinister organization like
• 57:45
  the Church of Scientology is probably a
• 57:47
  bad idea or by bringing Charlie Kirk's
• 57:49
  name into the public vernacular removed
• 57:51
  from the context of his hatred that we
• 57:53
  are normalizing a man who stood for
• 57:54
  violence. I believe, however, these
• 57:57
  worries would be handwaved away by
• 57:58
  younger people. From where I'm sitting,
• 58:00
  it seems to me like those sentiments are
• 58:02
  a small part of these systems that young
• 58:04
  people are also un are also interested
• 58:07
  in dismantling. If we can just make
• 58:09
  everything up, then none of that
• 58:10
  matters. We will create a new language,
• 58:12
  a new culture defined by other things
• 58:14
  they seem to say. I guess I'm happy for
• 58:17
  kids. I grew up watching the systems
• 58:19
  they challenge do whatever they want to
• 58:20
  people grind them down to the bones. But
• 58:22
  me and the rest of my generation and the
• 58:24
  generations above me did not challenge
• 58:26
  them in the same way that kids do now.
• 58:28
  There's this is a new type of culture
• 58:30
  surrounding power structures that turns
• 58:32
  them into mockery, defangs their
• 58:33
  movements, and disarms their meaning. I
• 58:36
  have no idea if this is the long-term
• 58:38
  solution to disrupting the culture
• 58:39
  that's prevailed for as long as I can
• 58:41
  remember, but it seems like kids have
• 58:43
  finally entered a lowlogical low state.
• 58:48
  Thank you,
• 58:51
  >> bro. What is going on with the kids?
• 58:53
  >> Dude, what's going on with kids?
• 58:55
  >> Are the kids okay?
• 58:56
  >> I think so. I mean like I was really
• 58:58
  fascinated by this speedrunning the
• 59:01
  Church of Scientology thing. Have you
• 59:02
  seen this?
• 59:04
  >> Not even. This was the first time I had
• 59:05
  heard of it. But I like it quite a lot.
• 59:07
  >> Yeah. I mean it's it's like like kids
• 59:09
  are like running into the Church of
• 59:11
  Scientology and like like just like
• 59:13
  blitzing as fast as they can like in
• 59:14
  like they should do that.
• 59:16
  >> Yes. But it's like really interesting
• 59:18
  and I was like looking at it and I was
• 59:19
  like this is it's so weird. not weird,
• 59:21
  but it's like they just don't even care
• 59:25
  about what this organization is or the
• 59:26
  fact that this is like a shady
• 59:28
  organization. You know what I mean? But
• 59:30
  it's not a they don't care like like
• 59:32
  it's all funny what they do, but it's
• 59:35
  like they don't care that this thing has
• 59:38
  this power. Do do you kind of know what
• 59:40
  I mean? Yeah. No, of course. And I I
• 59:42
  think that there's like this there was
• 59:45
  this New York Times thing that kind of
• 59:46
  went wide last week and it was about
• 59:48
  these three people sat down, one of one
• 59:49
  of which was Hassan [ __ ] and um they
• 59:52
  they the headline of the piece was like,
• 59:56
  "Hey, actually it's cool and okay to
• 59:58
  steal," which is not an opinion.
• 1:00:00
  >> Yeah. which is not an opinion anybody on
• 1:00:02
  that panel actually had. But instead,
• 1:00:04
  they were talking about this trend that
• 1:00:06
  was kind of observed online of
• 1:00:08
  microlooting, which has always been a
• 1:00:10
  thing, but now it's kind of gaining
• 1:00:11
  popularity on TikTok because you have
• 1:00:13
  this attitude amongst young people who
• 1:00:15
  are like, "Well, Jeff Bezos is [ __ ]
• 1:00:17
  me from every witch end, so I'm going to
• 1:00:20
  I'm going to steal a lemon from Whole
• 1:00:22
  Foods." And it's like,
• 1:00:26
  >> I get it.
• 1:00:27
  >> Yeah. But the conclusion that the
• 1:00:29
  panelists kind of came to in their
• 1:00:30
  conversation that I that I that I
• 1:00:32
  thought was actually pretty well
• 1:00:33
  rendered was that um this is these are
• 1:00:37
  the actions of a group of people who
• 1:00:41
  know that they are being taken advantage
• 1:00:43
  of or know something bad is happening to
• 1:00:45
  them but have no language for organizing
• 1:00:48
  what a movement looks like and how to
• 1:00:49
  achieve actual material results. It is
• 1:00:52
  so it's just kind of like acting out in
• 1:00:54
  response to this. So it's like you know
• 1:00:56
  that there's bad stuff happening to you
• 1:00:58
  and your response is microl looting
• 1:00:59
  because you can't imagine a more
• 1:01:02
  justified response. You haven't been
• 1:01:03
  taught how to do one. Yeah. So I kind of
• 1:01:05
  think that's a similar thing as to
• 1:01:07
  what's happening here. Yeah. Is that
• 1:01:09
  there's something there is something
• 1:01:11
  that has made this the target. Right.
• 1:01:13
  >> Yes. And and that's kind of what I say
• 1:01:15
  at the end though too where I'm like I
• 1:01:16
  have no idea if that's a if it's going
• 1:01:17
  to be a long-term solution. In fact, I
• 1:01:19
  probably think it's not. Right. But like
• 1:01:21
  at the end of the day it's still
• 1:01:23
  something. Do you know what I mean? And
• 1:01:24
  it's still and it's still kind of
• 1:01:26
  fascinating that like the prevailing
• 1:01:27
  culture, at least from my view as
• 1:01:29
  someone who doesn't like know any kids,
• 1:01:31
  right? But like as my view like from the
• 1:01:33
  internet or whatever is like, oh, like
• 1:01:35
  this seems to be the general like
• 1:01:37
  consensus about sort of these like more
• 1:01:38
  traditional power structures or even
• 1:01:40
  like using the word like the name like
• 1:01:42
  Charlie Kirk all over and like turning
• 1:01:44
  him into a meme and whatever. Like when
• 1:01:46
  that was initially going on, I remember
• 1:01:48
  feeling very weird about it cuz I was
• 1:01:49
  like listen, this guy like wasn't funny.
• 1:01:52
  Do you know what I mean? Like like to me
• 1:01:53
  I'm like no this guy was like kind of a
• 1:01:55
  like a villain and so like by turning
• 1:01:58
  him into this I think it kind of like
• 1:02:00
  removes like the context for him. Do you
• 1:02:04
  know what I mean? Where it's like I know
• 1:02:06
  who he is but do all these kids actually
• 1:02:08
  know who he is? And it might be true
• 1:02:11
  that they don't that some of them don't.
• 1:02:13
  They only know him from memes and stuff
• 1:02:14
  but at the end of the day he has been
• 1:02:17
  defanged. I I kind of feel like right
• 1:02:19
  he's been turned into the butt of a
• 1:02:21
  joke. And the joke is like, "Look at
• 1:02:22
  this stupid guy." You know, and then I
• 1:02:25
  think like that's probably what he
• 1:02:27
  deserves, you know?
• 1:02:30
  Um Yeah. And I think like
• 1:02:34
  there's also something there about like
• 1:02:37
  the I don't know, there's something
• 1:02:39
  there's something there about like
• 1:02:40
  trauma response, I think. Yeah.
• 1:02:42
  >> And just Yeah. And just like the the
• 1:02:45
  amount of violence that people have been
• 1:02:47
  forced to consume to the point that like
• 1:02:50
  I don't know. I feel like we've just
• 1:02:51
  beaten up the kids into nothing is
• 1:02:53
  sacred. Like nothing.
• 1:02:55
  >> That's exactly what it is. Cuz it's like
• 1:02:56
  okay like regardless how you felt about
• 1:02:57
  him, this guy did get like murdered in a
• 1:02:59
  very like upsetting public way that
• 1:03:02
  everyone saw, right? Like there's like
• 1:03:04
  no denying that. But like even the
• 1:03:06
  reverence that you or I might have for
• 1:03:09
  that as an event that happened, again,
• 1:03:11
  regardless of of who this guy was, I do
• 1:03:14
  think that kids fully don't have that.
• 1:03:16
  Do you?
• 1:03:16
  >> No. No. Yeah. I was I was like I was
• 1:03:18
  like DMing people that were posting like
• 1:03:21
  like oh rest in peace Charlie Kirk. Like
• 1:03:23
  I was DMing those people being like shut
• 1:03:25
  the [ __ ] up. But at the same time but at
• 1:03:26
  the same time like
• 1:03:29
  >> is is like
• 1:03:31
  a massively viewed
• 1:03:35
  assassination good,
• 1:03:37
  >> right? The answer is like
• 1:03:38
  >> probably not. Yeah. It's probably not
• 1:03:40
  good that a bunch of people like saw an
• 1:03:42
  assassination.
• 1:03:42
  >> Yeah. Like that's probably not good. But
• 1:03:44
  what you're saying though that I find
• 1:03:46
  fascinating is like, okay, if that if
• 1:03:48
  that happened
• 1:03:49
  >> and you're 15 and you see that
• 1:03:52
  >> Yeah.
• 1:03:53
  >> What do you even do? Like how do you
• 1:03:54
  even like grapple with that, you know?
• 1:03:56
  Or even like obviously there
• 1:03:59
  this assassination attempt on on the
• 1:04:01
  president what this past weekend, right?
• 1:04:03
  And whatever [ __ ] haze is just
• 1:04:05
  surrounding that and the big question
• 1:04:06
  marks and whatever. But even that is
• 1:04:08
  still just like like I feel like right
• 1:04:10
  now we are in this place in our culture
• 1:04:12
  where we're just all like well I guess
• 1:04:13
  this just happens now. Do you know what
• 1:04:15
  I mean?
• 1:04:16
  >> Yes. And I think that part of that is
• 1:04:17
  that our society is in such a dire state
• 1:04:19
  right now that a certain level of
• 1:04:22
  violence is actually necessary. Like
• 1:04:26
  as was the case with the healthc care
• 1:04:28
  CEO that was allegedly killed
• 1:04:32
  >> by Luigi Manion.
• 1:04:34
  allegedly though I find it hard to
• 1:04:36
  believe because him and I were playing
• 1:04:37
  Super Smash Brothers Brawl at the time
• 1:04:39
  of the murder.
• 1:04:40
  >> Oh, that's funny because he was actually
• 1:04:41
  playing we were doing a Pokemon battle
• 1:04:42
  where he was Brill Loom. He was he was
• 1:04:44
  using his Brill Loom with me.
• 1:04:46
  >> I think that that was right before he
• 1:04:48
  had saved all those children from the
• 1:04:50
  burning building on his on the way to my
• 1:04:52
  house.
• 1:04:52
  >> That is actually correct. Yes. Yes, that
• 1:04:54
  is actually right. But that level of
• 1:04:57
  violence um a response of course to kind
• 1:05:00
  of the
• 1:05:02
  insane amount of social murder that one
• 1:05:06
  could say that the healthc care CEO had
• 1:05:08
  committed is this thing where it is um I
• 1:05:11
  don't know just just like
• 1:05:14
  a lot of murder happening
• 1:05:16
  >> right in front of your face that's kind
• 1:05:18
  of unavoidable and sometimes it's
• 1:05:20
  justified and sometimes it's not. I am
• 1:05:23
  of course you know I always think I
• 1:05:24
  think it's always sad when people die.
• 1:05:26
  >> Of course.
• 1:06:07
  Oh no.
• 1:06:10
  No. No. No.
• 1:06:27
  Do you think they'll reveal a new Sonic
• 1:06:29
  game at Summer GameFest?
• 1:06:31
  >> I certainly hope so. It's been
• 1:06:32
  >> It's been a while since Sonic Frontiers.
• 1:06:34
  Sonic Frontiers was what in 20 22 or
• 1:06:38
  three.
• 1:06:38
  >> And I hope the new one they don't just
• 1:06:40
  like put you in an Elden Ring world and
• 1:06:42
  it's more like a fun colorful city with
• 1:06:45
  you know fun stuff to do.
• 1:06:47
  >> I think that the idea of doing another
• 1:06:49
  one where you're just in a big open
• 1:06:50
  field is a mistake.
• 1:06:54
  >> I think that was I think that was
• 1:06:55
  unwise. Like great experiment, glad we
• 1:06:57
  tried it, but um maybe put me in like a
• 1:07:00
  fun city. If you want a fun city and if
• 1:07:03
  you want great review scores, do a fun
• 1:07:06
  city and multiplayer where your friends
• 1:07:09
  can come in and run around the city with
• 1:07:11
  you. You could do little races.
• 1:07:13
  >> No, Jake.
• 1:07:14
  >> 10 out of 10.
• 1:07:14
  >> No, no, no. If you want to get the if
• 1:07:16
  you want to hit the prestige the
• 1:07:18
  prestige scores, you got to get James
• 1:07:20
  Marsden in there.