Latest / Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast / Child Star - Judith Barsi

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Child Star - Judith Barsi · Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Hollywood, a city aptly named Tinseltown because of all the
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: bright lights, shiny buildings, and of course, who can forget
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: the movie stars. Among these stars was one who was
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: beginning to shine brighter than most, ten year old Judith Barci. Now,
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: whether you know her name or not, she was very
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: likely a part of your childhood, as she had significant
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: roles in the Land Before Time and all Dogs Go
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: to Heaven. But her light would soon be snuffed out
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: by the likes of her own father, simultaneously bringing a
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: bright future to a halt and two innocent lives to
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: an end.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: Warning.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: The following podcast contains graphic content and material intended for
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: a mature audience.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: Listener discretion is advised.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: Welcome back.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: My name's Ben and I'm Nicole, and you're listening to
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: Wicket and Grim, a true crime podcast.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: You're gonna do it?
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I wasn't ready. Way to fail.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: There you go.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: She's pretty good.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: That wasn't bad. That wasn't bad. Usually it's me making
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: that sound, but this time it's Nicole and I'm drinking
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: the waters.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I needed an alcoholic beverage of sorts.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: Why is that stressed to the max or what oh,
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: I've been busy.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: It's been busy fair enough.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: But luckily you're going on vacation here next week, so
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: that's cool.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: Well, I think that's what's stressing me out, that you're
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: going on vacation, well, because there's always so much done
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: before you go on vacation, you know.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean you're not wrong, that's for sure.
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: But I suppose with that being said, so our next
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: Tuesday episode is actually going to be a special Q
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: and A edition yeap.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: So we rather than Nicole going on vacation and we're
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: just like struggling and rushing an episode, we thought, you
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: know what, we're going to take the week not have
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: an episode, but you know, instead of not delivering, we
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: thought Q and A option.
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: So so we already put posts up asking We got
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: over sixty questions. You guys are your answer? You to
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: know some things?
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that was only in like what twelve hours.
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so we'll see. I think a lot of them
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: are a little bit similar, so we'll try our best
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: to get through all of them. But yeah, gonna learn
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: a thing or two about us, I think definitely.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: So we will be here next week. It'll just be
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: a little bit of a different episode for you guys,
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: so stay tuned for that. Also also highlight on the
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: Also also something dropped this morning, same time this episode
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: was released.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: What was that?
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: The next stage of the Wicked giveaway?
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: Oh my goodness.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: So we're not sure if you're aware of it, or
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: if you've been participating or not, but we have talked
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: about doing a Wicked giveaway.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: We've talked a lot about it. Actually, have we quite
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: a bit, Okay, throughout the last few months.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: I think so, I think so. Well, it's as of
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: right now it's happening. I mean, weeks down the road,
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: months down the road, if you're listening in retrospect this episode,
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: it's probably over with then, But as of right now,
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: as this dropping, it's happening. So over on our website,
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: if you're curious about joining, you want to take part,
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: maybe win this epic giveaway prize, go to our website,
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: click the three question marks on the buttons. Do that,
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: follow the instructions, follow the riddles, the clues, the hints,
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: and you could win the first Wicked Box ever.
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and we also, are you going to release when?
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: Or when are we releasing What's in that Wicked Box?
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: Whenever I get the time to put the material together
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: to show it off.
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because we did a little reel or something of sorts.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: It's gonna be and yeah, we'd like to show off
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: what's in there. There's some pretty cool stuff. It's definitely
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: worth playing the game.
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: Hundred percent a part of it we already talked about.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: You get the very first number one out of thirty.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: It's marked because we did a batch of thirty artistsan
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: handmade mugs that say stay wicked. Holy heck, we found
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: her toy these dogs. We'll just leave her. It might
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: squeak here for a minute. We'll just leave her first
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: love her toys. But yeah, you'll get that epic mug,
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: the number one, the first ever one, among other things.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, hold on, Okay, I think Ripley's going
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: to just nap, So I think we're good.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: Okay, got the squeaky toys out of the way.
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so all right, So yeah, join that giveaway over
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: on the website. We're on to stage four. There's not
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: a whole lot of stages left, so join up. See
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: if you can figure it out, go through it. It's
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: gonna be epic.
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, very soon, someone's gonna walk away some some sweet things, some.
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: Sweet things indeed awesome. What else do you have to
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: talk with? Oh? The patrons, Oh my gosh.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a busy week for our patrons.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: No kidding. So this past week we had a slew
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: of patrons join us over on Patreon. So a big
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: shout out too. We got b I don't know if
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: that's a nickname or not, but I love it regardless.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: Shiria McCrae. Hope I pronounced your name right, Sorry if
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: I didn't. Sarah frad Brie and John Cobb shout out
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: to you too. We actually go way back, those two
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: just saying I was there when they met.
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: I knew you were going to have to make a
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: comment on that a little bit.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: Elena Maine, Savannah Purdue, Isabelle and Letitia So thank you
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: so much, you guys for joining us over on Patreon.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: If you want to show your support over there, you
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: can join us too, link down below. If not, you
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: want to just listen, totally cool, love that too.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: That's so good. Thank you so much everyone.
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: Well you ready to get into today's episode.
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Your intro has me very very intrigued.
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: Well, that's the point of the introduction.
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: I know, but I was just like two innocent lives. Yes,
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: I'm stuck on that line very much.
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: So you'll figure it out pretty quick, I believe.
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: Okay, good, good, good. You're not gonna leave us hanging
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: too long here.
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: No, there's not a lot of mystery in this case.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: It is very straightforward. You pretty much know what's going
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: to happen. You're gonna call it. But it's a tragic,
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: tragic tale that I think needs to be out there.
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: Okay, well, I was just going to say not that this.
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: I was going to be like, this is not a
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: very ben episode.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: Then it's not.
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: Usually you leave us hanging until the very end, or
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: you don't even freaking tell us anything.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: Well, I will say this that it's a very ben episode.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: In regards to childhood, cartoons and stuff are very much
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: big part of my life. I have childhood cartoons tattooed
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: on my arms. For example, you don't say one of
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: the cartoons we're discussing in this episode, Land before Time.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: I even have plans for future Land before Time tattoos.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: Oh so it's been okay, I would actually like to
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: watch that again. It's been too long.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: We watched it last year before we left her other house.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: Oh shit, okay, well that's apparently I don't remember that clearly.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm totally up for watching it again, doing
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: it me wrong.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: I can watch it like, well, there's numerous ones of
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: that one, right, Oh, there's like ten, and watch them
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: all though. No, okay, so there are you.
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: The first one is the only one that matters.
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: Oh gosh, okay, of course you'd think that.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: Yes, it goes downhill from there. Well not. It's very
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: much more kid orient. It's I don't know, new age cartoon.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: It's it's different. It's very different.
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: Anyways, that aside, let's get into this. So on the outside,
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: Judith Barci seemed to have it all. She was a
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: ten year old girl, but yet she was a rising
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: name in the Hollywood industry. She had an impressive resume
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: with multiple movie and TV roles. She made an appearance
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: on the memorable TV show Cheers, the cult classic film
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: series Jaws The Revenge. She was in that movie most notably,
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: as we were just talking about, she would lend her
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: voice to start in animated movies and become Ducky from
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: the Land Before Time and the beloved orphan girl Anne
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: Marie from All Dogs Go to Heaven.
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: Oh, we just watched that show.
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: Actually we did watch it aunt too long ago. But
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: as we know, things are often not always as they seem.
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: She may be a rising star, but behind closed doors
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: of her home she lived with a monster. Her father.
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: Oh jeez.
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: So. Judith Barzi was born in sunny Los Angeles, California,
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: on June sixth of nineteen seventy eight. She was the
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: daughter of Joseph Barcie and Maria Barsie. Now, unlike their daughter,
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: though they were not born in North America, they were
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: not born in the United States. The two were born
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: and immigrated to the US. They were born in Hungary, Okay.
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: So as they fled from Hungary, they fled from the
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: Hungarians Republic, which was under the influence of the Soviet
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: Union in the nineteen fifties. Now they fled following the
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: nineteen fifty six countrywide revolution against the Hungarian government in
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: the nineteen fifties. Now, as terrible of a situation this is,
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: there's a picture perfect image I think we may all
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: have in her head at this moment, a husband and
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: wife fleeing from the country together with nothing but each other.
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: Now they didn't even actually have each other. The two
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: immigrated separately. They escaped their country on their own.
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: So the two but did they know each other prior
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: to escaping?
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: Then no, they did not. Okay, so they immigrated completely
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: separately different times. But once they were both in the US,
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: they would eventually meet up and meet each other at
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: a restaurant in California where Maria was working as a waitress.
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: Okay, that's kind of cool.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: It is here the new couple began their new life together,
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: chasing the fabled American dream. And we all know what
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: the American dream is, right. I don't think many of
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: us can really put it into words, but we know
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: what it is exactly. It's owning your own peace of land.
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: It's having your dream job, it's having your dream car,
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: it's raising the right family, all these stipulations that are
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: different for everybody, but it's that same feeling, that same
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: burning desire desire for these successes in your life. And
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: success can be measured differently from everybody, but we all
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: have that idea what the American dream is, and that's
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: what they were yearning for now. Maria in particular was
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: dazzled by the stars in nearby Hollywood and as a
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: years past Judith would be born. Now, Maria was determined
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: to help guide her daughter towards stardom and a career
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: in acting. She taught Judith everything she could as at
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: a very young age. Her teaching would begin at the
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: age of five, and her teaching would include things like
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: proper posture, emploise, how to speak and articulate things that
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: you know, a bright young movie star would meet in
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: her career.
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: Hi, kind of sounds awful though, but okay.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: Kind of sounds awful.
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: Well, I don't know. That just sounds like not like
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: them running around having fun making mud pies.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: Well, to be fair, this wasn't a scenario where we
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: see in like reality TV shows today with like the
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: mother who's forcing these things on their daughter so they
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: can live vi curiously through their daughter. It was like
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: out of love and compassion.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: So it was like a hobby they shared together. Potentially.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they both enjoyed it. They both loved it, and
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: it wasn't like a pushy thing. You know. She wanted
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: the best for her daughter, so she guided her in
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: a loving and caring and motherly way.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: Okay, okay, yeah, so it.
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: Wasn't in any sort of negative context as far as
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: I could find anyways.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, because they literally just like went to the pageant. No,
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: well definitely not say moms, but they're not all like that.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: But just like the ones you see on TV's that's.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: What I mean. Yeah, it's not that stereotypical reality TV
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: show things. It's not that. Okay, No, and even if
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: that's what it's like in the real world, I don't
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: know that's what we just see on TV could be
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: painted that way.
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: Who's Oh my gosh, those shows they do they do
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: things for a reason, right, to get those viewers.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: That's true. But I'm just trying to give them the
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: benefit of the doubt. But no, yeah, you're right anyways,
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: even though those around them would like scoff them off
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: and say, like the odds of success are literally one
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: in ten thousand. Yeah, they pursued, they pushed forward, and
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: they still went for it, which I do like that.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: I do too, And I do want to talk about
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: this for a brief second. Why is it always that
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: those who are closest to you knock your.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: Dream Oh my god.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: Like you shouldn't do this because it's the odds of
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: success are one in ten thousands, so don't waste your.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: Fucking It's not even always the people that are closest
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: to you though. It can be anyone though, too, that
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: doesn't even know you.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: That's true. But also I find the most support generally
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: comes from people you don't know very well.
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Usually they don't well yeah, everyone just seems like
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: who knows you? Potentially is I don't know, but they
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: question your they know your history, I suppose right, so
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: they're like, oh, they can't do that kind of thing,
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: or or they remember how you were and you possibly
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: can't change, right, A person cannot possibly change.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: People can change.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: But they very much so can and they should.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: So anyways, I hate when people say you can't do this.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: It's it almost makes me want to do it, just
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: to tell them like, fuck you, I did it.
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: Well, just like a super side story because when I
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: said strangers do that too, Because remember when I had
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: phoned a certain person about tiny home living. Oh yeah,
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: ask some questions and they are basically like you watch
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: too much HGTV.
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, shout out to that cunt.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And it was just like, wow, how can you
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: just be like so rude and smash on someone's dreams.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: So yeah, it's unbelievable. Let's just like not be like that,
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: No kidding.
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: Anyways, moving on from that. Luckily, though, Judith's luck, or
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: perhaps destiny, was on her side. As it often happens
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: in Los Angeles, someone just so happened to be filming
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: a TV commercial at the San Fernando Valley skating rink
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: where Judith just so happened to be ice skating that day.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: Oh wow.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: So the film crew was doing their thing, you know,
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: they're setting up, getting shots and all this, and they
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: just so happened to spot the small, cute Judith gliding
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: effortly across the ice, and they quickly jumped in and
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: offered her to be a part of the commercial.
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: Seriously, just like that, Okay, that seems a little bit lucky.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: Right, It's like picture perfect. It's like, that's like what
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: you see in movies.
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: Hollywood's like totally, that's exactly the right time.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: So that's exactly how her spark of her career ignited.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: That's how she got going in the in the film industry,
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: was from this skating incident into a TV commercial.
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: And was she just there skating for fun, like it
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: was just a fun thing, I believe sh yeah, yeah, wow, Okay.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: So from there, of course, her career, like I said,
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: it sparked and it grew. She quickly signed her first
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: contract at an acting agency, the Harry Gold and Associates
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: talent Agency. She starred in a total of over seventy
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: commercials in her career. Casting directors couldn't get enough of
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: this cute little girl. She was adorable, a brilliant actor,
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: took direction very easily, she was easy to work with,
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: and they were most of all enchanted by her small size.
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: She was just so cute and adorable, t very.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: Petite and sorry you said, sixty commercials.
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: Over seventy commercials, oh oh yeah, oh yeah, right on.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: Good for her. So, being so petite and small, she
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: was able to fill roles of much younger kids. So
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: Ruth Hansen, who is Judith's agent, explained that this meant
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: the director didn't need to work with children who were
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: easily distracted, or were younger or didn't understand what was
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: being asked of them. So at the age of ten,
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: Judith was able to easily pass for being like seven
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: or eight years old. So rather than having to work
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: with a seven year old actor, they can work with
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: an experienced ten year old actor.
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: Okay, that actually makes sense.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: So the directors ate this up now. Ruth, who was
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: Judith's agent, also described Judith as I quote, happy, bubbly
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: little girl.
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, sounds just Adorable's heck, I want to
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: look up a picture of her.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: Actually, she's absolutely adorable. And if, like I say, if
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: you watch her acting or if you hear her voice
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: acting like it's it's a part of my childhood. Like
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: I can hear that voice at any time if I want,
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: and it's just it's so adorable. Yeah, it melts my
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: fucking heart. I should note, though, that Judith only stood
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: three foot eight inches tall, so being very petite now
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: at the age of ten, that's how tall she was. Comparatively,
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: The average ten year old girl, according to a quick
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: Google search anyways, is approximately four foot five inches tall.
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: Okay, thank you for that, beuse. I was like, I
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: have no idea if that's remotely normal.
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: So she was almost an entire foot shorter than the
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: average girl.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: Coach.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: Now, Judith was definitely small, small enough in fact, that
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: she was actually receiving hormone injections in her personal life
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: to help her grow and develop properly. So just a
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: little side note to show exactly, you know how small
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: she was for her age.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, like that was like a normal thing there, trying.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: To yeah, okay, yeah, it was just kind of like
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: she needs some hormones like help get her body developing
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: normally as a normal ten year old.
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: Medication of sorts, exactly. Now.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: Judith's first a big role was in Fatal Vision. It
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: was a nineteen eighty four TV mini series, and this
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: role may very well have been a very haunting foreshadowing
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: of what was to come for Judith. You see, Judith
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: played a daughter in the show who was murdered by
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: her father. Oh gosh, a fate that would become all
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: too real in Judith's future.
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: Shit, And I actually think I figured something from the intro,
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: but I'm keeping I'll keep it to myself.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: Let's hear your theory, let's hear it. I won't I
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: won't say a word. I'll just you say your theory well,
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: and then I'll just can I don't know, you're.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: Just talking about the mom so much. So like when
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: I had to reask about how many commercials she was
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: in is because my mind was somewhere else about Holy shit,
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: like two innocent victims? Is the mom the other victim?
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: That's my thought.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: Now well, like I said, I'm not gonna respond to that.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna just keep reading.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: Okay, we'll overhead.
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: Well, after this role, she began booking more and more
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: gigs where she would be most notably paid part as
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: like I said, Lamb before time, all dogs go to
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: Heaven and Jaws the Revenge. Now. Wow, all this was
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: going on, Judith was making a very good living, especially
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: for the likes of a little girl. Well I could
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: imagine she was earning an estimated one hundred thousand US
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: dollars per year, which is equivalent to approximately two hundred
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: and thirty thousand dollars today. Wow, which is much more
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: than I make. So I'm jealous of that.
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: That's incredible.
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: That's absolutely incredible, especially for someone in their single digit agent.
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: Well, absolutely, like that could just set you up for
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: your whole life.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: Really, oh one hundred percent. So this helped their family
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: buy a nice, modest, three bedroom house at twenty two
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: one hundred Michael Street in the Canogna, Canaga Canaga Park
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: neighborhood at the western edge of the San Fernando Valley
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: in the western hills of Los Angeles.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: So wow, that's a mulful.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: It is well done, thank you. Beautiful neighborhood, beautiful home,
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: but like not too like show body, Just a nice
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: modest home and a nice gorgeous neighborhood, right Okay. So
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: I do also want to mention this, Things are not
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: always as they appear. I already said that, but I
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: want to just highlight that because on the outside, her
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: life just seemed to picture perfect. She was making great income,
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: she's providing for her own family, great career ahead of her,
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: She's a gorgeous little girl, and everyone loves her. But
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: not everything's perfect. So this wasn't the case.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: I'm getting uncomfortable now.
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: While her career in future were getting brighter and brighter,
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: her home life was getting darker and darker. Behind the
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: closed doors, both Judith and her mother Maria suffered at
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: the hands of Judath's father, Joseph. Now, Joseph was struggling himself.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: He was having trouble finding a job, and when he
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: did find a job, he was having trouble keeping that job.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: In his frustrations, he turned to alcohol and would become
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: an alcoholic and was very quick to anger. Allegedly, Joseph
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: claimed to have served time in New York for killing
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: a man. However, no such records of this crime or
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: jail time were ever found. But regardless of that, his
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: drinking did get out of hand and did lead to
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: three different arrests for drunk driving. Joseph drinking was becoming
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: a major problem. He had become increasingly aggressive and would
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: routinely threaten to kill himself, kill his wife, and kill
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: his daughter.
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: Oh no, no, no, yes, yes no. Don't like this, Well,
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: of course you don't like it.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: This is a true crime podcast, I know, but.
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: This is shitty. I just hate this already.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: Where it's going, it's not fun.
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: I want okay, I'm just gonna say something really quick.
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: I wonder if like him not having you may even
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: get to this, but him not having any success and
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: his ten year old daughter having all the success pissed
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: him off.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: That is a very large theory. And if I'm going
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: to be honest, I had that information in the back
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: of my head. I wasn't sure where I was going
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: to fit it in here. So since you brought it up,
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: let's talk about it.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: Now, because I could have that would not go over
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: well for the person you just described exactly.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: So he was having very much so difficulties finding a
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: job holding a job. However, his daughter was having very
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: much so extreme success, like one in ten thousand success,
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: but he couldn't even find anything. So now not only
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: is his daughter successful and he's not, but his daughter
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: is supporting him. He's not supporting his daughter, he's not
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: supporting his wife. Everything is being supported off their daughter's income.
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: So, which isn't that like every parent's dream?
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: I mean, hell yeah, But I think there's a certain
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: amount of dignity that goes with oh yeah, especially in
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: that day and age. You know, we're talking like the
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: mid eighties right now, So there's that you know, working class,
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: that blue collar the man provides sort of thing.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: So if you are supposed to be the man of
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: the house and you're supposed to be the one providing
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: and you can't, but yet a little girl is doing
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: it for you.
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Like if she was an adult, it probably wouldn't
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: have been quite as.
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: It probably would have been bad too.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: But I thought to the extent of it being a
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: ten year old though, in my opinion.
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: No, you're right, but I would assume that it would
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: still affect him. Maybe not as bad, but I would
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: assume it would. But all around, I'm sure he felt emasculated, guaranteed.
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, which is not correct in my opinion.
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: No, No, he shouldn't feel that way, but I can
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: understand that the whole societal pressures at that time could
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: make someone feel that way.
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, totally.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: Doesn't mean that you should feel that way, but I
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: could see that pressure being that way, you know what
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: I mean?
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, yeah, And I mean some people could feel
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: that pressure more than others. Some in that same situation
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: would have been just like hell yeah.
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: I would have been like hell yeah, you go, little girl.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what could I do? Let's make more money, Let's
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: just help the situation get even bigger.
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I would be like, I'm gonna become an acting
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: agent or something like that, and I'm going to work
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: for you and like let's do this.
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like just awesome. I feel like that's such a dream.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: But you need someone on your makeup team. I'm your man.
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: I'm now make partisans exactly.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: So yeah, that's that's very much a very large theory
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: behind his motive with this. So one of Joseph's friends
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: named Peter Kivlan recalled that Joseph told him hundreds of times,
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: and let me repeat that, hundreds of times that he
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: wanted to kill his wife.
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: Holy shit.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: Peter would later say, and I quote, I'd try to
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: calm him down. I'd tell him, if you kill her,
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: what's going to happen to your little one? Now. However,
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: this didn't comfort Joseph or stop his evil words that
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: he was saying.
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because he didn't give a shit about her either.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: Joseph would simply reply, I quote, I got to kill her.
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: Too, jeezuz okay, that is too many times to not
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: do anything. Yep, gosh, oh okay.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: And that there's so many things or there's so many
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: patterns throughout true crime, and this is one of the
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: biggest ones is people don't speak up.
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: Well, they don't believe that the persons actually going to
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: go through with it. But I mean, like, gosh, maybe
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: the fiftieth fucking time that they said that, maybe surt believing,
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: not hundreds or even the freaking tenth time, even the
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: fifth time, for God's sakes.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So I mean, we really need to be aware
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: of other people and what they're discussing. Sure, maybe they
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: are joking, but.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: Maybe there's some maybe they're not.
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: Maybe they're not, maybe there is a sliver of truth
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: rooted in it. Maybe they're going through some sort of
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: mental health thing that you don't know about, and this
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: is speaking from that. We got to try and listen
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: to people and take those words to heart, because clearly
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: these are words being spoken truthfully quite more often than
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: we realize at times.
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: So Joseph's threats varied, but they were always malicious. They
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: included killing Judith and letting Maria live so she could
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: live with the loss of her daughter. Wow, killing them
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: both by cutting their throats. Wow, okay, and burning down
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: the house.
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: Right on.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's great, very fatherly type words of encouragement.
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that is the last thing that should be coming
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: out of a father's.
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: Mouth any one's for that matter, anytimes.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: But yeah, like this is his wife and daughter. Are
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: you fucking kidding me?
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's disgusting.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: I have to take my jacket off. I'm getting hot now.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: Getting pissed off at Joseph.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: It's too much.
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: Ready for a row rolling up your sleeves, gonna bust
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: some fucking knuckles on something.
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I hope he gets what's coming to him already.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: I feel this way.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: Well. Joseph also apparently had a bit of a passive
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: aggressive side to him as well. Allegedly he hit a
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: letter from Maria, a letter that she had received from
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: family back in Ukraine. Now, the letter was informing her
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: that a relative of hers had passed away, and he
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: hid this letter from her to prevent her from leaving
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: the country and not coming back to him.
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: Oh wow, so he has some oh what self esteem issues?
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: We've got some serious issues all around. Yeah, and like
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: you said, self estee, which would probably boil right back
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: down to his daughter providing for him and him not
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: being able to have a job.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I mean, gosh, she has like why does
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: he just assume she's gonna leave him? Like she has
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: a relative that she missed the opportunity to go and
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: say go bye to or put to rest or whatever.
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: Why the fuck wouldn't she leave him?
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean she should, but it's just like that's
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: taking quite an opportunity away from a person in my opinion.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, he's clearly a very malicious, controlling monster, honestly monster.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: They didn't just leave him.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well we'll get into that, okay. Now, this actually
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: wasn't the first instant Joseph actually had with these issues, though.
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: Before he moved to the US from Hungary, he had
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: moved to France where he had another marriage. Now together,
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: in that marriage, he had two kids with this woman,
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: and Joseph began a very similar abuse of alcohol and
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: spier spiral lying out of control. Eventually, though, this woman
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: did leave Joseph with her two kids and they moved
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: to the United States, to Arizona. Now this actually led
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: Joseph to move to the United States as well. He
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: actually chased down this woman, followed hers and reluctantly she
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: gave him a second chance in their relationship.
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: Oh, it's shit. I wasn't expecting that.
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, But in all honesty, it was probably more of
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: a second chance for their children than it was more
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: a second chance for him. You know, that's fair, an
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: opportunity for them to have a father. Yeah, that's that's
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: my assumption, And I don't know, I can't speak firsthand
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: on that, but that's what I would assume it is.
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: More so either way, though, it didn't last long. He
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: quite literally took this second chance and threw it in
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: her face. And he did so by in a drunken
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: fit of rage, throwing a cast iron pan in her
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: face a castle.
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: Those bitches are heavy.
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: Those bitches are head.
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: They're really heavy, Yes they are. I just lifted one
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: the other day. I was like, holy shit, why are
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: we gonna.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: Have this, because it's amazing.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: It's a murder weapon and a half.
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, they definitely are. After that, though, it was
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: no more chances. Divorce was immediately filed and the two
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: went their own ways.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: Good. Okay, she dodged a serious bullet, Yes, she did.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: So. In December of nineteen eighty six. So we're back
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: to the relationship with Maria and Joseph here now again.
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: So Maria was feeling the same as Joseph's previous previous wife.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: She was trapped and she was afraid. She fin decided
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: she needs some help and she turned to the police.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: She reported in the threats of him wanting to kill
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: her and their daughter, the physical and mental abuse and violence.
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: She reported it all to the authorities. Now quickly an
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: investigation was issued. However, police found no signs of any
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: sort of physical abuse, and they didn't have much of
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: a case if they don't have evidence, So as it
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: comes down to it, just like many other cases of abuse,
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: it's simply her word against his work.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: Oh jeez.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: So Maria decided she wasn't going to press any charges
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: and the case was dropped.
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: Wow, Okay, that's devastating.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: That's absolutely devastating, seriously unfortunate because she's not the only one.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: People go through that on a day to day basis,
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: Like how it's his word against mine, it's her word
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: against mine, it's their word, Like who's to say, right, Yeah,
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: And it's so unfortunate. So after the incident with the police,
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: though Joseph reportedly did stop drinking, it seems he may
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: have been trying to clean himself up. Maybe he had
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: been trying to do better, who knows. However, though his
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: true colors showed. Even though he wasn't under the influence anymore,
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: he still continued to threaten Maria and Judith. Now, without
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: the crutch of alcohol to blame for his actions, Joseph
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: was now simply a monster all on his own.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: So really, even with him not being drunk or whatever,
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: he still doesn't complain asshole.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: Right without the influence, he was still a violent monster
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: towards his family.
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: Awesome.
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: Yep, maybe it's just now that's just who he'd become.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: It was just this is what he does, and he's
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: just kind of stuck in this rut and he just
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: I don't know, but it's what he's used to. Not
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: an excuse, but maybe that's kind of where his mind led.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: Well, it almost seems like he might have needed help.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: Oh, I definitely he needed a lot of help, that's
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: for sure. So Judith was of course terrified of her father,
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: and rightfully so. She would openly tell her friends about
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: the things she endured at home. One event, for example,
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: she would tell a friend that her father threw pots
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: and pans at her when he was upset, which resulted
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: in her getting a bloody nose. Judith also told friends
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: that she was afraid to go home, saying, quote, my
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: daddy is drunk every day and I know he wants
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: to kill my mother.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: That's coming from a little girl.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: Ah Okay, yeah, that's so sad.
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: And the worst part is they do go home. They
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: go home every night.
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: Well they have to. Where else are they going to go?
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: Oh, but that home she could afford it on her own.
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: Well, that home she did afford on her own. That
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: was her home.
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Fuck.
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: Now another time, Judith was getting ready to leave the
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: US and flat to Bahamas to film the Jaws the
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: Revenge movie. Now, when this was happening, Joseph actually threatened
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: her with a knife that he held up to her neck, saying, quote,
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: if you decide not to come back, I will cut
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: your throat. Wow, holy shit, that's what he said to
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: his ten year old. She's probably a little bit younger
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: at that time. But yeah, who's.
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: Literally going away to make money for him to even live?
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exist, and he.
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: Says regardless if she's making money or not, Like what
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: the fuck? No kidding, why even have kids? Like, oh
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: my goodness, oh my goodness.
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: Now, once the filming of Jaws was finished, Judith and
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: Maria stopped by Maria's brother's house, Joseph Weldon. So just
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: see know Joseph and Joseph.
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: So yeah, that's confusing.
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: I just that's his name. I'm gonna from here and
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: out refer to it as Maria's brother.
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: She probably just loved being away on skits or what
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: does not skits. What it's called like filming. I can't
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: think of the right word, but like the little girl
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: loved on set, yes, away on the set. Wow, that
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: was a lot. She probably just loved that.
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure I can hear people listening, like months
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: from now, it's on set.
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: I know, people yell at us and I'm well, they
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: say it's in I'm sure it's in kindness, in kindness,
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: probably in kindness.
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So anyways, they stopped by Maria's brother's house in
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: New York. They stayed there for a total of two months,
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: hiding out from Joseph.
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: My goodness.
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: And this was after the filming of the movie. Right, Okay,
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: presumably they're saying, you know, they're still on set, right,
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: But Joseph figured it out and he tracked them down
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: and he knew where they were. He called them, and
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: he was talking on the phone to his daughter, and
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: Maria's brother recalled hearing the voice on the other end
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: of the phone saying, quote, remember what I said before
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: you left? Wow, And that moment, Judith dropped the phone
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: and ran into the bedroom crying. The following morning, Judith
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: and Maria returned home.
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: Did they have to though, weren't they at a safe
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: place that they could have just stayed? Oh? That it's
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: so difficult.
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: I realized we're going to get into a little bit
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: more reasons of why here. Shortly so, her home life
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: and living with a literal monster because that's what he is,
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: was beginning to take a toll on her. Judith reportedly
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: began gaining weight, and she also developed compulsive behaviors. One
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: such behavior was a mental disorder called trichotillomania. I nailed that.
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: Holy yeah.
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: I was like, I'm going to fuck this up, and
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: I nailed it. Okay, sorry self? High five, also known
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: as hair pulling disorder or compulsive hair pulling.
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: Oh.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: Judith was so anxious that she ended up plucking out
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: all of her eyelashes and also pulled out all of
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: her cat's whiskers.
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: Wow. Okay, that's like really really upsetting.
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: It is.
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: Shortly before an audition on May of nineteen eighty eight,
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: Judith became hysterical and she couldn't perform. Now. Seeing this
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: little girl in such a state seriously alarmed her agent,
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: Ruth Hansen, who reported quote, she was crying hysterically. She
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: couldn't talk. After this Maria brought Judith to a child psychiatrist. There,
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: the identified severe physical and emotional abuse and quickly reported
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: the findings to the Los Angeles County Department of Children
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: for Family Services. The investigation was quickly issued, but it
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: was also quickly dropped. So Marie Maria assured the caseworkers
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: that she intended to begin divorce proceedings against Joseph as
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: soon as she could. She told her that she had
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: already rented an apartment in Panorama City which was closer
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: to the movie studios where the two girls could escape
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: while filming auditions or sorry, while filming and doing auditions.
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: And this was very much so true. Maria and Judith
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: were already doing this. They had an apartment that was
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: being rented. They were spending time there as much as
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: they could, in fact, without raising suspicion with Joseph. Right, So,
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: with all this reassurance from Maria saying she's going to
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: file the divorce, she's already taking steps to leave them.
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: She already has this apartment. The investigation into the child
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: and family welfare was dropped because Maria assured them it
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: was taken care of.
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: My gosh, this is hurting my heart so much. I mean,
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: she felt like she probably needed to do that as
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: being the mom, right, but she would just literally ask
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: for help.
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And learning all this, like learning that this case
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: was dropped and that Maria was saying, these things are
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: going to happen and in the past, I mean, they
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: haven't happened yet, so they need to happen. So learning
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: all these things, Maria's friends urged her to follow through
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: with the plant, saying, get the divorce, leave Joseph, forget
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: the house, just take yourself, take Judith, get to safety.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: And Maria did want to do these things, but she hesitated.
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: She didn't want to lose the home. She didn't want
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: to lose the belongings, all the things that her daughter
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: had worked so hard for would be in the hands
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: of this monster, and it wouldn't be her daughters anymore
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: when she earned those things. And of course, not to
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: mention the fear of how Joseph would react to this.
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: A quote I have from a neighbor says Maria told
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: her this, I can't because he'll come after us and
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: kill us. And he's threatened to burn the house down.
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: So eventually, the exact thing Maria was afraid what happen
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: happened at around eight thirty am on July twenty seventh
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: of nineteen eighty eight. One of the neighbors heard an
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: explosion next door, and a quote from them is my
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: first thought as I ran to call nine one one,
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: was he's done it. He's killed them and set fire
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: to the house, just like he said he would. The
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: scene the first responders found was the family home Judith
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: had worked so hard for and provided for. Their family
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: was up in a blaze of flames, but none of
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: the family members could be seen safely outside the home.
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: Police eventually found Judith in her bed. Maria was laying
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: lifeless in the hallway. Both of them had been shot once.
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: Wow and gasoline holy.
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: Shit, which Joseph had ignited shortly before dying by suicide
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: in the garage.
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, okay, wow, that just yeah, that gets
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: okay shit. Yeah, that is unbelievable.
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: M hm.
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: And it honestly made me even more mad that he
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: was in the garage for some reason, dead as well.
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: I don't know why, but it did.
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: Well. It gets a little bit worse here, awesome. Through forensics,
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: authorities believe the night Judith and Maria lost their lives.
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: Was actually two days prior to the fire wow, they believe.
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: On the night of July twenty fifth, Joseph, most likely
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: in a drunken state, finally snapped in the shadows of
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: the evening, while Judas quietly slept under the canopy of
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: her comfy bed, Joseph quietly snuck into her bedroom, pointed
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: a gun to his daughter's head, and pulled the trigger,
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: shooting her once and killing his ten year old little
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: girl instantly.
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: What a complete piece of shit monster.
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: Hearing the gunshot, Maria panicked and ran towards her daughter's room, yeah,
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: praying the noise wasn't what she thought it was. Unfortunately
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: it was, and when she came running down the hallway,
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: she found Joseph standing in Judith's bedroom doorway. He raised
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: the gun towards her and shot her as well. The
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: next morning, Judith's agent called the house in a panic,
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: as Judith was missing from an important audition and meeting
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: with Hannah Barber Productions Incorporated. Joseph picked up and he
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: told the agent the two had simply taken a car
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: to San Diego. Then that was the end of the
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: phone call. He hung up and then for the next
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: two days did who knows what, but he left his
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: daughter and his wife lying where he shot.
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: Them, just like rotting away. Yeap, Wow, this guy's a
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: piece of work. Yeah, it is almost unbelievable. It's like,
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: you don't even know what to say.
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: It's disgusting.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: It's so I just can't even grasp what's happened here.
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: Well, finally, after two days, Joseph would take cans of
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: gasoline and pour it throughout the house and on top
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: of the bodies of Judith and Maria. Then he lit
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: the house ablaze. I do want to point this out.
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: With the fumes and gasoline contained inside the house, when
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: Joseph lit the fire, there would no doubtedly in my mind,
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: be an explosion, and that explosion would have been what
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: the neighborhood. Some people say it could have been the gunshot.
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: My assumption is it's the fumes because that's actually what ignites.
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: Nine times out of ten, that's what ignites with gasoline.
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: It's actually the fumes that light. Okay, and with the
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: fumes billowing in a contained area, you will get pressure
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: build up with a fireball and a boom. That's how
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: it works, right, So that's probably what the explosion was.
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: It's interesting I guess that they didn't hear the gunshots. Say,
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: but we've covered a lot of cases for in like exactly,
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: they can literally go undetected.
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I believe that in this explosion, in this
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: exact moment, I think that's what sealed Joseph's fate and
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: said it in Stone. So I don't know if he
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: planned on escaping. In fact, I doubt he did plan
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: on escaping. But if he did, the explosion, though I'm
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: sure wasn't very extremely severe, I'm sure it probably would
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: have caused him some sort of injury, burns, whatever, blew
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: and back, broke some bones. I don't know. He had
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: to ignite it somehow. Most likely he's doing it in
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: a drunken stupor. He's probably just thrown a match on guess,
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: so he's right there, probably blew up in his.
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: Face thinking that he's going to get hurt.
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: Yes, whether he intended to escape or not, I don't know.
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: I doubt it, but at least I think he did
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: get injured from this explosion. Whatever the case. Though, after
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: the explosion, it was then that Joseph went to the
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: garage took out a thirty two caliber pistol and turned
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: it to himself and pulled the trigger, and from there
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: the house burnt down around him, with his wife and
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: daughter in the adjacent rooms. So Judith, Unfortunately, she passed
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: away before the release of her two breakout iconic roles
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: one Ducky in The Lamb Before Time and two and
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: Marie in All Dogs Go to Heaven.
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: She was literally passed away before those even went out.
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: She had passed away, but.
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: She didn't even get to see the success of them.
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: She did not even get to see the movies.
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: Wow, that's even worse.
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: Now. In a cruel twist of fate, in All Dogs
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: Go to Heaven, Judith performed her final lines ever where
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: her dog Charlie passed away, and the lines go a
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: little bit something.
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: Like this, Charlie, will I ever see you again?
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: Sure? Sure you will again? You know? Goodbye Zone forever?
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: Then goodbye Charlie. I love you.
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, Since the movie was released after the passing
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: of Judith, in a chronological order, Anne Marie technically passed
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: away before Charlie ever could. In the movies, Charlie was
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: voiced by none other than the legendary Burt Reynolds, who
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: passed away in September of twenty eighteen. The two actors
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: had a great relationship behind the scenes, with Bert supporting
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: and praising Judith and being a great mentor for her
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: all the way through. Now to fans of the show,
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: when he passed away, they are sure, just as Charlie
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: would be waiting for Anne Marie in Heaven, They're sure
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: Judith was there waiting to greet him. Done.
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: You just more and more damage here? Eh, I'm like
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: drawing old Musha together.
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: You good.
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Gosh, there's probing on a dry eye
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: listening to this. Huh brutal.
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: So Don Bluth, the director of both The Land Before
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: Time and All Dogs Go to Heaven, praise Judith for
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: being quote absolutely astonishing, and he stated he intended to
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: feature her exclusively in his future productions. The closing credit
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: songs Love Survives in All Dogs Go to Heaven was
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: dedicated in Judith's memory. Finally, Judith and her mother were
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: buried together at Forest Lawn Memorial Park in Hollywood Hill
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: Hills in adjoining plots. Judith's gravestone reads in Memory of
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: the Lovely Judith Eva Barsie nineteen seventy eight to nineteen
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: eighty eight, our concrete angel and at the very bottom
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: with her iconic line from Land Before Time as ducky
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: it says, yep, yep, yep. And that is the case
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: of Judith Barsie. And with that, I want to make
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: her our badass of the day.
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Wow, they were both in just such a terrible situation, like, yeah,
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: it was just a lose lose really, regardless of what
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: they did, it probably would have ended this way most.
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: Likely, yeah, which is so unfortunate. And I know this
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: is the case of Judith Barzi, but I also do
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: want to highlight her mother as well. Oh absolutely, I
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: can't imagine the hell she went through as well, trying
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: to protect her daughter and herself and trying to do
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: the right thing but inevitably still succumbing to this monster.
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: Well yeah, she would have known what happened before she
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: got shot and killed yep, which is pretty devastating that
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: that was her last known thought on earth.
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: Really, So I don't know if everyone knew of this
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: case and knew who Judith was, But yeah, I don't
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: know if you'll be able to watch Land Before Oh.
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: Thanks God Heaven the same, No one will. That is
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: such a loss.
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: It is and those two movies honestly hold a very
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: very special place in my heart, and so does Judith
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: if I'm being honest. She did amazing in those films
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: and amazing with all her acting. The world lost a
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: lot when she passed the way I can.
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: Say that well, yeah, because it's honestly just like incredible
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: to think what how far she would have gone, you know.
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: Oh her future was so bright, she was just getting started. Yeah,
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: so all right, you're good.
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah you did it again, Ben, But.
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: I did what again?
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: I don't know, just fucked everyone.
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: Up, fucked everyone.
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: I know. You warned me so that I was like,
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: you might cry in this and I was like, no, no,
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to. There's no way, like nope, But
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: yeah I lost that bed.
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah you did.
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: Well I hope you guys joined enjoyed this episode. If
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: you haven't seen those movies, I do recommend you go
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: see them. They are absolutely incredible films. Yes they're cartoons,
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: Yes they're animated films, but there's a lot behind them.
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: Highly highly recommended. They're absolutely incredible. We appreciate you guys
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: being here. If you guys want to go give us
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: some support over on things like Facebook, Instagram, our website, Patreon.
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: We so appreciate it. It's all down below. But if you
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: just want to sit here and listen to the next
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: episode with us or be here in this one, we
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: appreciate that too. Thank you, thank you, thank you so much.
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: Do you remember next episode it's going to be a
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: Q and A one. We're not here next week because
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: Nicole's going on vacation.
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, put all the blame on me, yep.
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: So we are putting out that Q and A episode
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: next Tuesday for you though.
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: In place of it's gonna be fun. It's an awesome
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: way just to dive in deeper and get to know
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: us a bit better.
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Nice, relaxed too, kind of chill, like I said,
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: rather than us just kind of hey, we're on vacation.
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: We'll come back in a week or two. We're still
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: doing something for you guys. Yeah, and engaging. We're actually
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: going to be having some fun with it.
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: So yeah, and honestly, as emotional and terrible as that was,
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: well done, you did really.
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: Good, so thank you appreciate it.
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: So until next time, stay wicked.